Episode 1635 - Jillian Bell

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Lock the gates!

All right, let's do this.

How are you, what the fuckers?

What the fuck, buddies?

What the fuck, Nick's?

What's happening?

I'm Mark Maron.

This is my podcast.

Welcome to it.

Look, you guys, today on the show,

I'm going to talk to Jillian Bell.

She was my co-star in Sword of Trust.

That was Lynn Shelton's last movie.

She was a writer on SNL before being in movies and shows like Workaholics, Brittany Runs a Marathon, and Eastbound and Down.

But she has just directed her first feature.

Summer of 69, which is not about 1969.

It's a reference to the sexual position.

Let me just get this out of the way.

Los Angeles, I'm back at Largo for an 8 p.m.

show next Tuesday, April 22nd.

Then I'm at Dynasty Typewriter on Saturday, April 26th, and again on Tuesday, April 29th.

Toronto, I'm at the Winter Garden on Saturday, May 3rd for two shows.

Burlington, Vermont, I'm at the Vermont Comedy Club for two shows on Monday, May 5th, and one show on Tuesday, May 6th.

Those, I believe, are all sold out, but there might be tickets surfacing.

I don't know.

Portsmouth, New Hampshire.

I'll be at the music hall on Wednesday, May 7th.

Then I'm in Brooklyn, New York for my HBO special taping at the Bam Harvey Theater on May 10th.

Two shows there.

Go to wtfpod.com/slash tour for all of my dates and links to tickets.

Yes, do that.

So, look, you guys,

I don't know.

You know, I brought this up must be five, six weeks ago that

eventually

the president would defy the courts and that's happening and then we would be in a bona fide constitutional crisis and that has arrived.

Here we are.

This is it.

This is the precipice.

I don't know what the recourse is of the Supreme Court over this deportation ruling or the lower courts with theirs,

whether they're going going to find the president in contempt or not.

But this is what was going to happen.

And I assumed it would happen, and now it's happened.

And we are in

a true constitutional crisis because I don't know really what the recourse is for the courts to take the president to task.

There's nobody in the orbit in terms of advisors or people with positions of power in the Justice Department or in the

executive branch that

will tell him he can't do this and he's going to do it.

And then ultimately, if there is no recourse,

the government that we have

or had is no longer

functioning.

It's no longer America as

based in constitutional democracy.

So, how are you?

Good morning.

Welcome.

What are you going to do about it?

What are we going to do about it?

I mean, look, I get focused on these.

You know, I'm starting to go into deeper dives.

It seems that

outside of

the mania and sociopathic autocracy of the president, that you have

these people within the administration who, you know, Trump is not smart.

He's not, he's a dummy.

And so, you know, he's being operated.

And, you know, go poke around.

Take a look at Russell Vought

in the Office of Management and Budget, because I think that guy is an engine.

And of course, Stephen Miller, the

Deputy Chief of Staff.

Is that what his position is?

In charge of policy.

Yeah, that guy.

He's out there doing it.

But yeah, I mean, if you want to get more definition around it, I know people don't

stay checked in.

There's a lot of other people, you know, working on this.

But what did we do?

What do we do?

Well, I just spent an hour and a half playing guitar deeply, trying to find a riff to

use for my special.

I have been

on the fence about how to handle my cat Charlie in terms of medicine.

I'm deciding now, and I think I talked to you about it before, that

I think I'm going to take him off the Prozac.

I actually think that Prozac is making him more aggravated.

I'm just going to have to ride it out.

This is my feeling.

I'm going to talk about this with the same urgency I talked about the constitutional crisis.

Everything in my mind happens at roughly the same frequency.

And sometimes I can't get out from under it.

I mean, the cats, and I've talked about this a bit, but I do think that my brain generates as much personal crisis as possible to counteract

the

macro

political and environmental crisis at hand.

So if I can match it, I can at least keep it in the house.

You know, I like I can see what's going on in the macro and the big picture, but I can go like, I got some stuff going on here.

You know, my cat is aggravated and they're uncomfortable.

So I'm gonna I'm gonna deal with this and then I'll check in with the other stuff later today

or every five minutes, however it works for you.

But

I do, I've had many cats before in my life.

Some people are telling me to call Jackson Galaxy.

I don't know that guy.

But I do have a sense of what's going on.

I mean, when I go, and I think I went away too much this last time, the vacuum, the power vacuum, creates, you know, a dominant struggle.

And I've got, you know, Buster and

Charlie, who are, I think, more or less the alphas.

Sammy's kind of a moron and was pretty severely punked out by Buster.

So they have

a very cute

gay relationship,

gay marriage to a degree.

But I find that Sammy is like, he's going to go to wherever the tough guy is.

So that creates a little friction.

But I think me being away so much has put Charlie in this position to where he's going to fight it out with Buster to be the king of the house.

And then I come home and he's fighting with me.

This little fuck is taking me on.

and I'm like, dude, that's not going to, it's not going to go well for you.

And then I medicated him, you know, just like a small authoritarian leader in my house.

I'm like, if these fuckers aren't going to like me, I will repress them.

I will suppress them.

I will put this little fucker on medicine so he can't function the way he wants.

And then

I don't like that part of me.

I don't like that.

So, but, but also, like,

having cats for so long,

they're just going to have to figure it out.

I got one more trip to do, and it might be a little dicey, but I've got some gabapentin.

I'm just going to try to wean them off this Prozac and let them figure it out because they will figure it out.

I've had so many cats.

I know that this has happened before.

I just freaked out because there was a lot of

shit involved, literal shit,

and just a lot of insanity.

Three male cats.

Kit keeps telling me, like, we'll get a female and bounce it out.

I'm not going to just keep adding cats to the problem.

You just can't, you can't just keep adding cats to the problem.

So look, Jillian Bell is here, and I love her.

She's very funny.

She's very sharp, good person.

As I said, I worked with her on Lynn Shelton's last movie, Sword of Trust.

We had a good time.

And she's directed a movie.

It's called The Summer of 69.

It'll be on Hulu starting Friday, May 9th.

And this is me talking to Jillian Bell

My sister drove me, so she was like, I'll get a Starbucks.

And I was like, great, I'd love ice water.

And that was what you got?

That's what I get every time.

At Starbucks?

Yes.

But I don't, I can't, I don't go.

I don't go to the Starbucks.

Yeah.

What am I doing?

I'm using...

using, this is where my brain's at.

Are you using

locking a car?

I was going to turn my heater off with my car fob.

This is the machine.

This was the remote that I was looking for.

Yeah, for sure.

So we're both in a great place.

Well, I mean,

I actually just started medicine and, you know, and I've never taken it before for an anxiety medicine.

What?

Yeah.

Which one are you surprised about?

That I've never taken one?

Yeah, that you've never taken anti-anxiety medication.

I thought everyone had.

I don't know.

No, I was on, I did Prozac years ago for a short period of time to process some other shit.

Yeah.

You know, when I was in New York, and then I just never did it.

And I tried some stuff, but they always focused me.

But this one's not an SSRI.

It's more specific.

Oh.

It's Busporin.

I can't shut up about it.

I'm on that.

I'm on a lot of things.

Really?

Yeah.

I'm on that in Lexapro.

How long have you been on Busporin?

Three weeks.

Oh, so it's new to deal with the other stuff.

Yeah.

Do you feel anything?

You wouldn't know.

I mean, I feel a little bit better.

I'm like

when I have panic,

I cry for a bit and then I come down from it faster than I was before.

So

I guess that's helping.

Do you have beta blockers too?

I have beta blockers.

I'm not on that right now.

You didn't take a beta blocker to come talk to me?

No,

I got a prescription today for clonopen.

Oh, that'll kick you.

That's a hardcore.

I can't do those because I'm in recovery.

I can't have quanopins in the house.

Yeah, yeah.

That's not good to have in the house.

I think that's until the Lexapro.

Was this all relative to the other thing?

Yeah, yeah.

I would talk about it too.

You would?

Yeah, I had a fibroid removed from my uterus.

Yeah.

And then

the doctor before I had the fibroid removed to schedule the procedure, they're like, well, we need to make sure you don't ovulate before we have the procedure.

So we'll just put you on birth control for the first time in your life.

You've never been on it.

Never been on it.

I like a person that wings it.

Yeah.

For life.

I always just cross both fingers and go, let's hope for the best.

Yeah.

This is on you, dude.

Yeah.

I go, hey, if this happens, you got to take care of it.

Yeah, and then I go, go ahead.

It's an old Catholic procedure.

Yeah, absolutely.

So you've never been on birth control and it just, and you felt that immediately?

Yes.

I was like, I am itching inside my skin like I'm going crazy with anxiety, with depression.

Oh, wow.

And that was just to control the ovulation.

Yeah.

Okay.

And then I had the procedure.

They're like, you're all done with that.

Now let's put you on so much estrogen that you feel like you're going fucking nuts.

And that's to

counter the effects of the impact it had on your uterus?

Yes, to heal the lining.

Okay.

And then

I basically said, you guys, I got to get off of this.

I was on it for a few weeks.

I said, I got to get off of this.

They're like, well, let's maybe do the patch, the estrogen patch instead now to try that out.

I put it on and then I threw up eight times.

Oh, my God.

So like my body was saying no to all of it.

And now it's three and a half months later and I'm still dealing with really the fallout of it.

Oh my god.

So and I've talked to so many women who are like, oh yeah, that lasted three months for me.

That lasted six months.

I had to take a year off of school just from the estrogen overweight.

Either the estrogen or the birth control.

Like, so it's just like, I just, there's just not enough research done about women's health studies.

I just can't even believe that they just give everyone the same thing and

like my sexual methods cross their fingers and hope for the best.

Well, I mean, but that's half of medicine.

But oddly, I'll share with you

the response that I'm not proud of.

But I'm like, well, what do you think this means for Charlie?

Do you think it's going to take him a long time to get off the Prozac?

Oh, for your cat?

I know.

I know.

It's like, this is a bad story.

I wonder if Charlie's going to be okay, or it's going to take months.

No, it won't take months for Charlie because that was like, it's been four days.

Yeah.

I think that, and I'm not sure it's incorrect,

but it's frustrating that a lot of medicine is speculative.

Yeah.

And that all they can do is they got to try it somewhere.

Yeah.

And so, on some level, whether you know it or not, you're part of the research.

Absolutely.

But then when you call them,

when you call them to go, hey, I got the data back, it fucking sucks.

Yeah.

They don't go, oh, cool, let's write that down.

They go, oh, you're probably good.

Did you want to have a kid now?

Yeah.

I go, what?

They're like, it's time.

You're running out of it.

And I go, I can't deal with all of this.

Well, I don't know.

Maybe there is no other solution until they figure out over time different methods of either removing the cyst or

not needing the birth control or trusting that somebody is telling them the truth about their ovulation.

Why couldn't they just sort of schedule it right away?

In the middle of your cycle.

Yeah, that would have been nice.

Between cycles.

Yeah, that would have been really nice.

I don't know.

See, that that's more suspect to me.

It's like, why just force them people to take this just so they have can manage the ovulations.

Exactly.

I'll go all I'll call you the next time I have a period and then I will come in.

In a week.

Yes.

Yeah.

And they go, oh, yeah, I want to go to Hawaii that week.

So can I put you on these trips?

I'm booked up.

That's right.

Well, that's that's more dubious

than y you know, it's like, why all the medicine?

I know.

So now just to come back from that, you're on Lexapro and Busforin and occasionally Beta Buck.

Yeah.

Just because your brain's fucked up from the Attorney Peninsula.

And Atavan.

Ativan and Quanapin?

Well, what are they trying to do to you through a fucking drugstore?

I don't know, man.

Well, I have the Atavan, you know, break in case of emergency.

But did you,

because that's heavy, too, quantipin and Atavan.

Those are, those are, those are yummy to addicts.

Yeah.

But yeah.

But this is the first time you've had the panic?

No.

Hey, this is is fun.

Turns out I've had it since I was a baby.

A baby?

Yes, like since I was very young.

I used to

talk to your mom about it.

No, I used to get nervous about something and I would hold my breath until I passed out.

So my dad never wanted to be alone with me.

Oh, it just gets.

He made you nervous?

No, it just causes like there's a baby just turning blue all the time whenever it's getting anxious.

I don't like this one.

I know.

Yeah, can we give this back?

Are there any other ones?

So you remembered that or did your mom remember that?

My mom and dad told me about it and they took me to a doctor that was like, oh boy, when she grows up, some boy's going to break her heart and she's going to drive her truck through a tree.

Nice thing to hear.

I know.

Yeah, I'm trying to track.

I tried to track how long I've been having my particular form of anxiety,

which is, you know, dread-driven, catastrophic thinking, intrusive thoughts.

Yes.

But they're all practical intrusive thoughts.

Like, you know, like you talked to Bamford, her intrusive thoughts are like, I want to kill that baby.

You know, me, it's like, you know, what if my cat hangs itself on the drape thing?

Yeah.

And then I just lock into that.

Yeah.

But so when you have reasonable intrusive thoughts,

how is that not just being, you know, like,

you know, worry?

It's worry on some level.

It is worry.

It's fear.

Yeah.

It's all fear.

It's all fear.

But mine is like mine goes from one thing to another so it doesn't it collects more things oh yeah yeah it's like a snowball it's like okay you've depleted that worry exactly here's let's pull up let's open the folder yes so like i was like okay

um when i was a kid i

this is a particular one that's that's followed me into adulthood when i was a kid when i would go to bed on sunday nights every sunday night was hard for me because i was like i was spiraling about the week before or the next week.

And my parents, I would hear their TV go off.

And then I'm like, everyone's asleep in the house besides me.

Yeah.

And I'm awake and I'm terrified.

Yeah.

So that became, as an adult, oh, you book a job that first Monday, like every Sunday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday becomes like that Sunday night.

So I'm like.

terrified trying to memorize, not sure.

I mean, are you ever thinking like, I'm going to fuck it up?

Yeah.

Oh, every time.

Every time I'm like, this is the opportunity for someone to see what a failure I am.

So,

so, and then, and then it just keeps

them all right.

Yeah, and then my anxiety just keeps jumping to more and more things.

So, I've stopped.

I stopped driving three years ago.

Oh, my God.

That's a similar type of anxiety that I have, but why did you stop driving?

I had a panic attack on the freeway going to Palm Springs.

But how did

I driving?

I was behind a big semi-truck, cruising along 75 miles per hour, 70 miles per hour.

And I just went, I just, that dread that comes up and is heat just all the way up to your shoulders.

I just went, I don't know how to drive.

Yeah.

So

I go, you're going to be okay.

You're going to pull off the freeway.

You're going to be okay.

And I got off the freeway.

And then I was like, I don't know how to, I can't make it all the way to Palm Springs.

So I had to stay at a double tree inn where they give you a chocolate chip cookie.

Yeah.

I, by the way, had a reservation at the Parker, which is very nice.

And I thought that would be very nice.

So you landed on I can't drive?

Yes.

Even though you'd gotten as far as you'd gotten,

logic couldn't help you.

No.

No.

So now I still, I've been trying to drive lately, but I got to like the El Pollo Loco

on the corner of my neighborhood.

So that's, that was a big achievement.

Now, but is this like, is it fear you feel or I don't because you know how to drive?

I know.

I don't trust it.

I don't trust the other cars.

I don't trust.

That's different.

I must trust myself because around a neighborhood, I'm fine.

It feels like old hat to me.

But

a car in front or a car in back, which is driving, that is terrifying to me.

I get it.

I have to battle the fear of being T-boned at an intersection.

Oh, yeah.

Because we've seen it in movies so many times or what is it?

I actually can track that one.

There was an accident in my hometown

that was so

devastating

that it traumatized me for life.

It was a stop sign situation and a drunk driver was just barreling down this road and this car had the, you know, had the right of way.

Yeah.

And this fucker just, you know, not only T-boned him, but was going so fast, decapitated all four of them.

What?

Yeah.

Just hit it so hard that the car just went right through the other car or over the top.

And this was a story you grew up with or you saw this happening.

It happened.

I didn't see it happen.

Oh, thank God.

No.

But I was like, that's bad.

I'm going to avoid that at all costs.

Oh, my God.

So I think about that, but I can sort of overcome it.

And what are the other driving things?

Oh, terrified of hitting somebody.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, that's my fear now, too, because I'm like,

keep playing around with driving.

Right.

Sometimes you're texting and you look up.

I'm barely blinking if I'm driving.

Oh my God.

I know.

So beta blocker don't help with that shit?

The beta blockers don't work with me.

They make me feel a little bit like a mannequin.

Yeah, but it's only for four hours.

Yeah, is that it?

Yeah, I think so.

I think beta blockers are pretty.

Beta blockers are probably very good for people who do stand-up, right?

Well, if you're afraid.

Yeah.

I mean, like, I mean,

it's the stage fright drug yeah yeah I was prescribed at once because I was fighting so much with my girlfriend at the time that I was trying to detach with love and and not be angry so someone said you just try beta blockers so I'm just sitting there she's just sitting on a couch and I'm like I just

popping beta blockers to not have to deal with love

that that but she was good it wasn't all one-sided that one yeah so wait do you have siblings I do I have my older sister she's my producing partner yeah she dropped me off so

does she remember you not being holding your breath and shit?

Probably.

She was five years older.

So she probably, yeah, she probably just didn't

have anything to do with you.

It was just you getting more attention at the time.

No, she was obsessed with me.

She was the opposite.

She was like very much like,

you know,

she definitely wanted at one point to be like

the star because she was going to audition for Mickey Mouse Club as a kid.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

And then my parents were like, we don't want to live in Florida.

So they didn't didn't do it.

Oh, they weren't willing to

roll the dice

on a Disney kid.

Yeah.

Thank God.

Yeah.

That's a good decision, I think, for the parents.

And but she ended up doing what before hooking up with you.

She was an agent for a very long time at a boutique talent agency representing people for TV and film.

Oh, yeah.

And she actually got into that because when I was 18, she convinced my parents to let me move out to LA.

And she was like, I'll help her.

I'll work at a talent agency.

So she built her way up from like an assistant to

a partner at a talent agency.

And then after a while, it was like everything I started producing some of the movies I was in and TV shows.

And I just said, you know, this is what we've been doing our whole lives is looking at scripts and dissecting them and figuring out what they love.

Yeah, and like agents are, their knowledge is good for production.

Yeah, absolutely.

She's very logical and good at problem solving.

And also pulling people in, I'd imagine.

Yeah.

But,

wait, so where did you grow up?

I grew up in Las Vegas.

Nevada?

Yeah.

Is it like there's no other one?

There's actually Las Vegas, New Mexico.

I'm sure there's several.

Las Vegas, New Mexico, yeah.

Yeah.

And really?

I've only met a couple of people that did that.

Yeah.

Who's that other one?

Baron Vaughan?

That other one.

You know, that one.

Yeah, the one.

I feel like I've talked to maybe three.

There's the Killers?

Yeah, the band?

The band, the Killers?

Okay.

Jimmy Kimmel.

Right.

And then some people end up in Vegas.

Yeah.

And it's always the same sort of question.

It's like, what?

How did you grow up in Vegas?

I know.

And then there is a world out there outside of whatever the fuck is happening that everyone knows about.

Yeah.

It is funny that some people still think, oh, what casino did you grow up in?

Yeah.

Where did you go?

Which buffet did you go?

Did your family go to every Sunday?

Look,

we did.

I'm not going to lie.

We did.

You did?

Yeah, because my dad had a little comp stamp.

And so we would go to them.

But why do you end up in Vegas?

No one's from Vegas.

No,

he's from Montana.

And he just wasn't really about the scene of that, even though now I'm attracted to Montana.

It sounds wonderful.

I feel like you have,

not in a negative way, some Montana vibes.

Yeah?

Yeah.

I don't know.

What are the positive Montana vibes I give off?

Just like solid person.

Oh, that's so good.

You know, you know, kind of like, you know, you're candid, but, you know, you have boundaries.

Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

Great.

Okay, great.

Yeah, he's from there, and then he moved out to Vegas, and he

sort of did.

For his gambling addiction?

Yeah, his gambling addiction.

No,

he was like a radio guy for a while.

He was a DJ, and then he was like.

What, at the peak of FM radio?

Probably.

Like in the 70s?

Yeah.

And then

he was like the Ed McMahon to someone's show that was like up and coming that didn't ever hit.

And then he became an ad man.

He did advertising.

So he had his own ad agency called Bell Agency.

So he started as a jock.

Yeah.

And then he became a sidekick for a local TV show?

Yeah.

Okay.

And like, and then

was like, okay, I need to make some actual money.

So he

had video of it?

Oh, I think.

I don't know.

I feel like we have pictures of it, but I'm not sure we have any video of it.

That would be amazing.

I'm sure with YouTube nowadays, I'm like, let's see.

Go find it.

Yeah.

And then he like, well, he was, he knew about at least copyright ads, you know, if he's doing radio.

Yeah.

He knew that.

So he did, he has to open his own ad agency?

Yeah, opened his own ad agency.

He always, it's funny because my mom was a stay-at-home mom, always wanted to be an actress.

And then my dad worked in advertising and always wanted to be a film director.

And he took me to the movie theaters every Sunday of my life,

of his life.

Yeah.

And

he's still around?

No, he passed away about 12 years ago.

I'm sorry.

That's okay.

Seems young.

Was he young?

Yeah, he was 69,

which is like...

Name in your movie.

Yeah, which is the first film I directed in the summer of 69.

So there's a little wink there to him, I think.

Is there?

Yeah, I don't know.

I believe in those things.

Like, it's funny.

In retrospect, yeah.

Like, the first film where I had a role with a name

was in 22 Jump Street, and my name was Mercedes, and that's the only car my dad drove.

Like, even when we lost everything, he lost his agency and we had barely any money, he had an old 80s diesel merchant.

Yeah,

that had no air conditioning in the Las Vegas summer.

So like,

it was just like 110 by 120.

I know.

So I believe in those little like winks.

I don't know if you do, but

you know,

it seemed like there's

an arc there that we're

missing.

Which is.

Well, we ended before we...

I watched your movie, and it was...

You watched Summer of 69?

That's a cute movie.

I love it.

Oh, that's very sweet.

It's odd because, like, as an old man, I didn't quite know how to watch it.

Because of the link?

Or no, no, because of the subject matter.

I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah.

Is this a type of movie now where these kids are learning about sex, but this way?

Yeah.

But there is sort of a type of movie going on.

There is, but also,

I mean, we subvert it.

It's like, you know, it becomes about

a movie about female friendship and also like a, you know,

suit for women coming of age.

So I kind of was like, you know what?

I will do this type of movie if we can make it what is actually interesting to me.

Well, I mean, I couldn't identify that many movies like that, but it is sort of a teen subgenre, getting someone laid.

Yeah.

Yeah, and here's the way in that we know: like the girl wants to get the guy, the guy wants to get the girl.

Yeah.

And now they need the help of someone.

Like, okay, I can, I can, I can see that, and I'm going to do it in the most fun, fantastical,

fantasy-sequenced, fun way.

And then when we get to the heart of what the story is really about, it's going to be about these two ladies.

Yeah.

And like, that was exciting to me.

Yeah.

We'll talk about it more in detail as soon as we figure out or explore how your dad lost everything.

And now, a word from our sponsors,

Lexapro.

Are you struggling in life?

Or are you a cat?

Yeah, exactly.

Well, no, because we were talking about how he started an ad agency.

And then in passing, you're like, even when he lost everything,

he lost.

I mean, look, that happens sometimes.

It happened to my dad.

Well, I mean, like, so you guys are growing up and he's got his own agency and it's local.

Yes.

And he's like writing funny stuff.

Do you remember, did he have billboards that he was proud of and that kind of stuff?

Oh, yeah.

Actually, the funniest thing is that my dad rented a billboard for my sister's birthday when she was like six years old.

And it was like, happy birthday, Brianna.

And she's like, I was mortified.

I was like, did they have her picture on it?

Why the hell?

No, it just said, happy birthday, Brianna, and like a little 80s birthday cake or something.

But she was like, everyone will see this and it's the worst.

But yeah, he, I mean, he was known at different casinos for like doing their commercials, like the some restaurants.

And oh, yeah.

Yeah, there there were a few that like.

What were the production values?

Was it like, did it have the guy walking in in front of a backdrop?

Come to the buffet.

That kind of thing.

Maybe.

Well, I feel like some of it was like, you know, the flashingness of like a fire going up and then a steak being grilled and then like all the different desserts you could get.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he did like a local furniture, like walker furniture.

And there was a place called Carousel Commons, which was coming up, which was like all these different types of restaurants, sort of like a food court in one's face.

Sure.

So it's like he, you know, he did a lot of stuff that people from Vegas growing up would know.

But, and we have all these Addy Awards for him.

Oh, that's cool.

Like, people will come in and be like, did you finally win something?

I'm like, no, that's my dad.

That's just my dad.

Did he direct?

You know what?

I don't think he ever did.

He ever did.

No.

Because it seems like if that's what he wanted to do, he had the option.

Did you dip into that a little bit?

I think, no, I think he always just.

And your mom didn't work?

No.

She ended up working

when I was like at the end of

being in high school.

I basically, she, she started doing like.

Was that when your dad started to drift?

Drift?

No, I mean, start to business go wrong.

Why do you really want to talk about when my dad's business went wrong?

Because my dad lost everything.

Yeah.

It's sort of, I mean, I was older.

Yeah.

And so like it was,

you know, it, it's, it's an odd thing.

Like, even if it's not not like, you know, even if it just happens because business just got bad.

Yeah.

But it's a weird thing when you have the person that, you know, is like the guy that, you know, brought you up.

Yeah.

And all of a sudden he's got nothing

for whatever reason.

Yeah.

And then you, you're, because you have to, you kind of instinctively approach him a different way.

Well, and the thing is with my dad is like, even when he lost his agency, he was still hustling like the whole time.

He worked so hard for his family that like, I felt like by the end, I was like, you, you,

you deserve your break.

Yeah.

Like, you know, he worked, like, literally when he found out what he, he, he passed away of cancer, but

when he found out about it, he didn't know that the doctor, because he was having a procedure and then they found out it was a surgery.

It was bigger than they expected it to be.

And

they had obviously, I guess, told him, but we didn't know that.

And so we came in to talk to him and then we said something.

And he goes, oh, dang it, they told you.

Yeah.

And I'm like, you were just going to hold on to that?

You were just going to take that all on?

Like he was the, he was the sweetest man.

Just hardworking, focused.

Hardworking focused.

Didn't want you guys to be stressed out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

My dad was an angry mess.

So you got lucky.

Really?

I mean, I did get lucky.

I did get lucky with them.

They were both very loving.

And so that doesn't make, I'm like, why am I on so many medications now?

Because you were you were born panicky yeah most kids are born colicky you were born panicky right right out of the gate you're like

I go I go oh what if I have to make a left turn they're like you're a baby yeah am I gonna

how do you walk how am I gonna

yeah

who's gonna feed me what's happening oh gosh the dread I wonder if that's part of it

I'm still putting this together and you know I've had more time than you to put put it.

How much more time?

Well, I mean, I've had, like, I've known that my brain's a certain way for a long time.

Yeah.

But I always rationalized it as being reasonable.

And it just made me intuitive that everybody should feel exactly like me if they were just in touch.

Yeah.

And I tried to sell that on stage for years.

Like, everyone's bitter.

I mean, how can you not be bitter?

What do you, everything worked out for you?

It didn't.

You know, but then it moved into, I think anxiety is more relatable.

But no, when I think about my childhood and about that feeling you had of being

afraid or not feeling safe or something, but that seems like you had more of a mental thing.

Yeah, mine was just a screw-loose.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Are you envious of people who

are like, I'm going to...

I'm going to watch Everybody Loves Raymond tonight.

Yeah.

And then I'll go to bed.

And then I'll get up.

And then I'll.

No, I'm not envious of them.

You're not?

No.

Because you appreciate

the gift with the curse.

Well, it's just like I have to appreciate my life.

And I'm not living that life.

And I don't know that that's all anxiety where I feel like I've got to be engaged and putting new things in my head and

curious about stuff.

Right.

You know, that they're like, I don't mind that part of being unsettled.

Yeah.

You know, because because I think that's part of creativity.

Yeah.

But, but

it's more about having to overcome,

you know, imaginary obstacles that my mind generate constantly.

Yeah.

I don't think that journey is a heroic one.

Yeah.

It's relatable to a degree.

Yes.

But just after a certain age, it's a little exhausting on some level.

Yeah.

So that was, I, I, what I do, I've been doing this joke about it, about how like, you know, I don't know if what I'm medicating is exactly the source of my creativity.

Maybe I just like to, you know,

pan for gold in a river of panic just to see if I

can do it.

That's such a good way of putting it.

Because that's how we, I mean, you're a funny person, you're a writer, that's how we problem solve

is with comedy.

Yeah.

And even if it's improvisation, you're still on some level,

you know, you know, having that moment outside of yourself

that

is

it's rewarding but it's also like you know it makes you feel better yeah absolutely I mean honestly it's what makes me feel

like a human is being able to engage with others and and problem solve and and put together worlds like writing is my favorite thing to do yeah and when but when did you start doing that because we worked together and I didn't know your work that much when we did Lynn's movie.

Yeah.

And that was all improvising and you were hilarious.

Oh, thank you.

Everyone was so fucking funny.

Oh,

did you know that, like, you know,

did you know about my crisis like on day two of that movie?

What was the crisis on day two?

Well, we were all kind of good.

Was it a breakfast crisis or like a real crisis?

No, it wasn't the cereal crisis.

There was a cereal crisis.

I know, because I.

Because you didn't like those weird eggs.

The whole.

Those eggs were weird.

The whole thing was bad.

And I know it was low budget.

But all I wanted was a particularly, just not even that esoteric, you know, healthy cereal.

Yeah.

And I, because, well, that's another part of the anxiety is like, there are these things that I would hold on to that I needed to do.

Yes.

To feel like, you know, I could, you know, I think about it all the time.

Like, there was a time where if I didn't bring my own shampoo on the road with me, you know, I'd be like, I'd be like, oh, my hair's going to, everything's going to be fucked up.

I mean, I need, so there were these things.

Control.

Right.

Yeah.

So it was more around that.

Yeah, I got it.

But no, like after day two of doing like shooting,

I pull in aside.

I'm like, hey, these guys are just going to be untethered and going for the fucking laugh all the time.

What am I supposed to do?

They're like, you got to rein them in.

I mean, they're playing characters, right?

I mean, what are we doing out there?

Was that the day that we were screaming with Toby outside?

I don't know.

That was,

I feel like I know exactly after which scene that happened because we were all,

everyone was going to a 12.

Yeah, all riffage.

By the way, we all left there too going, I think I ruined the movie today.

Like everyone thought that.

But also like you have such trust in Lynn.

There's like a feeling of like,

if I really, if I really fucked it up, she'll she'll say something that'll she'll get what she needed.

Yeah.

But my thing was like I was the grounded guy.

Yeah, yeah.

So like, and everyone else has got these broader characters, really.

That's true.

That's true.

And I was just sort of like, how am I, it was really just sort of like, how am I going to get laughs

with all these fucking improv wizards everywhere?

And, and, and Toby has done some kind of weird deep swamp research

on his fucking accent.

He was in character the whole shoot.

Yeah.

Um, and by the way, I was the only one, like, as I was flying out to, it was Alabama, right?

Yeah, Birmingham.

Yeah.

As I was flying out there, John was on the plane, Michaela was on the plane, and I was like, Hey, you guys, have you guys been working on this accent?

And they go, Oh, my character doesn't have an accent.

And then I found out all of you fuckers didn't have accents.

And I was like, I'm the only one that has to be from Alabama.

And I was like, Lynn, and she's like, Oh, it's so fun.

It's great.

It'll be great.

And I'm like,

I was so nervous.

That sounded like her.

Everything was like that.

No, it'll be great.

I watched a Merca Polo of hers the other day.

Actually, yesterday.

Yesterday.

Oh, really?

Yes.

You still have them?

I do.

It's like they're still there.

Like, they just, they don't go away.

So I looked at it

because I was weirdly, I was going on

a show that had a medium.

And I was like, I wonder who would come through because I was hoping my dad, you know, of course, of course.

But then you start to think of the people in your life who you've lost.

And I thought of Lynn, and I was just thinking about her cute laugh.

So I just looked it up for a second.

Oh.

Best laugh on the planet.

Oh, yeah.

That was like, I think that was

the glue that held us together is I could make her laugh constantly.

Yeah.

And she'd just keep laughing.

Oh, my gosh.

No matter how, like, angry I'd get.

Yeah.

And then she'd be like, it'll be fine.

And she'll just take like 80 tinatures of things and drop them into her tea or whatever.

And I was just like,

we're in great haste.

She had a system.

She had a system with all that medicine.

It was so brutal that,

you know, there's something about a belief in, you know, homeopathy or, you know, natural medicine or you know whatever yeah you know but I don't know I often wonder but it doesn't matter that whatever she had you know outside of her stomach issues you know would have been diagnosed earlier had she been more prone to regular doctors right you know because I like I remember like this is so fucking heartbreaking but uh I remember like because she was like when she got sick that week you know she reached out to her naturopath and wherever in Seattle, the person, wherever they were, and with the symptoms and stuff.

Yeah.

And then like, you know, after she passed away, you know, I get this box at the house with like a tincture.

And I'm like, yeah, that wasn't, that wasn't going to do it.

I know, sweetheart.

Sweetheart.

I saw her in Boston in the beginning of 2020.

I think that's when she got sick.

Really?

Yes, she was getting sick.

I think that is when it started to happen.

Yeah.

We went out to breakfast.

I was shooting something and just in a freaking terrible place.

Yeah.

But like, we were just talking and I just kept saying, because the director I was working with was really hard.

Really, the hardest director I've ever worked with.

And I just kept saying to her, I can't keep doing this.

I really want to run the ship.

I want to direct something.

And she just kept saying, like, Dillian, you do it.

I will be there.

Like, she just kept saying that.

And like, you got this, and I will help you with anything.

You know, there's like, there's certain people in this industry where you point to them and you go, not a gatekeeper, you know, like not someone who will, like, hold all the secrets and think like,

you know, and she was the opposite of that.

Yeah, she didn't, she couldn't work within that system either.

No, I know.

Yeah.

She was like, can you imagine if I had had $30 million to make a movie with what I make?

Like, and that always just blew my mind and pissed me off, too, that she never made that big one, you know?

Well, she would have.

Yeah, she would have i mean and it would have happened it would have was like you know i think it was pretty near it was gonna happen yeah

look man it's uh like i get those pictures on my phone all the time yeah and i had a dream about her like two days ago you did i do it happens sometimes she visit you a lot in dreams no but when she does it's always pretty specific but she didn't look great to last time

Well, she would hate that.

I know.

But she generally just says, you know, I love you.

Oh, you know?

Yeah.

And

well, I mean, you know, not to get into too much, but I will say that when I saw her at that breakfast, she was like, I'm so in love.

Really?

Yeah.

She was very much in love.

It was very sweet.

I was like, she's beaming.

So like for that to be the last time I saw her, I was like, you know, I knew you knew how she felt and

vice versa.

But I just,

I was like, oh, I hope I ever get, I get to tell you that.

Yeah, that's sweet.

Sorry, I'm doing it on the air, but

I'm just fighting the, getting the choked up thing.

I know.

But

Steve Feinars just made a documentary about me, and a lot of it has to do with her.

I can't wait to see it.

It's pretty good.

When's it coming out?

Or you can't say.

Well, no, I don't know where it's going to end up.

You know, I don't think we've got a deal for anything yet.

Okay.

And it's going to be a Tribeca.

Do you live here?

You live here.

I live here.

But, you know, they screened it at South by Southwest in the same theater

that I believe we screened Sword of Trust.

Wow.

That was the first first time I was ever there.

Yeah.

Oh, that's so special.

That's very special.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, when did you start getting interested in performing?

Oh, when I was very young.

I just, like, my mom bought me

this little costume box that was full of like a maid.

And it was all like murder mystery type thing.

Because I think because I was in love with Clue, which Lynn Shelton hated.

Yeah.

On the record, I will say that.

Lynn Shelton was so mad that my favorite movie was Clue.

She's like, get out of my movie.

She almost kicked me off the segue.

But I do.

I love that movie.

But yeah, I was just always...

Well, it's costuming.

It's very funny.

Did you know the board game?

I think I did a little bit, but I was more like obsessed with murder mysteries and comedy.

And honestly,

we're all character actors playing the leads, like finally getting to play the leads.

And I loved it.

And I like any movie with a very specific tone, like Moonstruck.

Yeah.

You know, where everybody's going for the same thing.

And if it doesn't work, isn't it perfect?

It's great.

It's so good.

And, and, and if one person didn't go with what the tone or didn't get it, like, it just wouldn't work.

So I, I, I fell in love with movies at a very early age.

And, and, I, and your dad was taking you.

Yeah, yeah, he was always taking me.

And then, um, I would go in high school, and, um, I would go to the Flamingo, and I would see Second City performing there, and it was like Jason Sudeikis and a bunch of other people, and, and I actually had Jason Sudekis.

They did casino shows, Yeah.

Oh yeah.

The touring group.

Yeah, the touring group.

They were like living there.

So, and just doing the same show.

And I just went to the same, it was like watching the same episode of SNL every week.

And I just was like studying why that didn't get a laugh there or something.

Wasn't there improv element?

Yeah, they had a little bit of improv in it.

And then I, I, at my high school, had them come and teach us.

So Jason Sudekis like came and taught improv.

You just approached him after a show?

Yeah, I was like, can you come?

I was like, I'm the, uh, you know, the head of the thespian society at Bishop gorman high school yeah will you come and teach improv on a saturday and he's like sure oh and um and then i wrote for snl like years later um when i was 20 24 and he was like wait I know you.

We know each other.

We know each other.

You're that kid from high school.

And I was like, yes.

So it was pretty wild.

That's crazy.

I know.

So that's a really fun one.

And did they have, did you have fun at the class?

Yeah, I, yeah, it was really fun.

And, and, and we created like an improv troupe and everything for the first time because I just loved improv.

We did it every Friday in high school.

And every day I would come in.

And Monday through Thursday, I would come in and go, is it Friday?

I think it's Friday.

And she was like, no, Jillian, we're not doing improv.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Does it still exist, the improv group?

I don't care.

I have no idea.

I haven't been back in so long.

I should like go and find out.

Did it become a legit club?

Did you make it a club that was in the yearbook?

Yes.

Yeah, we made it a legit thing.

So I was like, okay, all right.

Well, hopefully that'll stay on.

Then I like,

I moved to L.A.

when I was 18.

So, okay, so you're really right out of high school?

I went for one semester of college at UNLV, and I told my parents, like, oh, I'm going to do what's equivalent to a semester in L.A.

And then I'll come back.

And then I was like, I'm not, I auditioned for a...

Kelly Osborne music video and I didn't get it.

And I'm like, I'm never coming back, motherfucker.

To L.A.?

Yeah.

To Las Vegas.

I was like, this is the dream.

Oh, yeah.

And And then

I worked at a talent agency for like five years.

Really?

But your sister wasn't out here yet?

Yeah, she was.

She was out here already, and she's the one who convinced my parents to let me come out.

Okay.

And then she was working at an agency as an assistant still.

And then I worked at the same agency as the receptionist.

Okay, so they had the sisters.

Yeah, they had the sisters.

The Belle sisters.

Yeah.

And then eventually they moved me around.

She became an agent, and I started moving around to like the assistant in the television department, the kids department, the dance department, commercial, sports, everything.

Oh, wow.

So you got to see that side of the business.

Yeah.

Not exciting.

Or it was.

Look, I'm grateful for it because it taught me everything.

It taught me that

your

agents,

like you, you should be doing 90% of the work and that's why your agents make 10%.

Like you should be out there doing as much as you do.

A lot of people don't understand that.

No.

They're like, why isn't my manager working for me?

I'm like, what are you bringing?

Yeah, exactly.

What are your ideas?

Yeah.

What do you need them to facilitate?

Yeah.

And then if you don't get someone who's interested in that, then you got to get a new rep.

Right.

But you should be able to call them and go, hey, by the way, I just, you know, did a play and this person came and saw it and said this.

Or I did the groundling.

So, you know, I was waiting through.

And I got two of my first jobs through that.

Really?

Yeah, through performing that.

But you were.

That was my schooling when I came out here.

So, how did you get in there?

But you were still working at the agency.

I was working at the agency, but I was, you know, there's sometimes two-year gaps in between classes at the Groundlings.

So any chance I got to do any performing, I would, you know, go and do sketch groups.

But like, you know, Groundlings was it for me because I saw

I saw a black and white ad for, you know, Will Farrell and Sherry O'Terry.

And I was like, that's where I want to be.

Yeah.

and um, and SNL was the dream, yeah, that was the only dream I had, right?

Uh, you know, like movies and stuff, I didn't even really think about it.

I was like, SNL and since high school, yeah, oh, since I was the kid, we couldn't go to New York because on a vacation, because I told them the first time I go to New York, I'm going to be auditioning for SNL.

Oh, that was a family rule, yes, yeah, yes, okay, and then that's how it happened.

Okay, but so what who was your crew at Groundlings?

Um, I was in with like Taryn Killam and Dana Powell, Sarah Baker,

lots of great, great humans.

I'm like, when I got in, it's like Ryan Gall and

Jim Rash.

And there's a bunch of people that were like right ahead of me, but my group was mostly like Sarah Baker and Taylor Killer.

Was that a huge deal?

I mean, to be in the fucking Groundlings?

Huge deal.

Just even being in the Sunday company, like that was the most exciting part because now you're, they're switching up that show every Sunday.

It's like being in SNL, but it's just not taped.

Right.

So that was like, to me, and you did it for two years?

I did it for,

um, I did it for about a year because they make, they make cuts every six months.

Yeah.

And my second round of six months, I got plucked by SNL to go write.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

So you'd only been there for

I had basically, I had done all of Groundlings.

So there's four courses, but that takes like five, six years to get through.

And then once you get into Sunday Company, the goal is to stay in for a year and a half.

They make cuts every six months.

And if you make it to a year and a half, they could still go, okay, thank you for your time.

Or they can vote and say, we want you to be a groundling now.

So how did, did you go audition for SNL?

After six months?

After, no, the second six months I was in, I'd been in for like, let's say nine months in the Sunday Company.

They came and scouted a groundlings show and asked me to audition as a performer.

In New York.

Yes.

I flew to New York.

And he did it.

Finally saw it, got on the stage, performed, or did the audition, got a call that I didn't get it.

And then two weeks later, I got a call, my manager got a call from Seth Meyers, who was the head writer,

saying, would Jillian maybe want to write?

Can she come in and meet with me?

So I came in and met with him.

I thought I didn't get it.

Yeah.

Because he didn't ask me.

anything

because I didn't phone you out to tell you who

he flew me out and he was like, Are you close with your family?

And I was like,

Yes, like, so I they were basically asking red flag questions just to see if I was like a cool human to hang out with.

But I had all these stacks of sketches waiting to show them, and they didn't ask for any of them, so I figured I'd bombed it.

You're holding the, yeah, yeah, I was just holding a stack of sketches with like in a binder, and then I was like, Okay, bye.

And then I left, and then I was walking around Midtown, yeah,

and uh,

I went to the wax museum.

Does anyone go there?

I didn't know anyone.

Yeah, no, I did.

I bought the ticket finally.

Yeah, yeah, good.

And then I finally, the end of the day, I was just sad.

So I went to buy cake at Magnolia.

Oh, that's good.

Downtown?

In, yeah, right next to

30 Rock, actually.

Oh, so there was, I think the original one was down in the village, the West Village.

That was the one with the cupcakes, right?

The butter.

Yeah, yeah.

So they got you.

So you got to go.

So I got a slice of cake and I'm about to pay for it.

My phone rings, and it's Seth Meyers.

And he goes, Hey, what are you doing?

And I go,

I'm buying a cake.

And he goes, What?

And I go, just what are you doing?

What's up with you?

And he goes, oh, you got the job you start tomorrow.

And I was like, what?

And so I'm holding cake, just pacing in front of Magnolia Bakery, calling all my family.

I'm moving to New York.

So the cake became celebratory and not sad.

It started off sad.

It started off as the saddest cake.

I mean, a wax museum and then a slice of cake.

And then

you head back home.

And then you just jump in.

Yeah.

Who was the cast?

Kristen Wigg, Tenan Thompson, Bill Hayter, Andy Samberg.

That's good, yeah.

It was a good crew.

That was the year that Jenny Slate was there.

She came in my year.

And then writers-wise, Michael Bryan and Hannibal Burris, Christine Nangel.

There's a lot of great people.

So, how was that for you as a work experience?

All the things.

You know, it's like amazing and wonderful and horrific.

But Seth must have been good to work on.

He's great.

He's like,

what you see is what you get.

He is just a solid human being and so supportive and wonderful.

And

yeah.

And I got like a sketch in my first episode and then like never again.

Really?

Yes, because I didn't want to give up my sketches that I did at the Groundlings because I was like, well, I want to perform them at some point.

So you you held on to the stack of sketches that you brought to get the job.

Exactly.

And once you realize you had the job, I'm like, I'm not going to let them do that.

I had a lot that got to dress but not air.

And I wrote with Chris and Wig a lot.

We had a lot of fun.

How's she doing?

She's great.

I mean, I haven't seen her in like a year.

Yeah.

But whenever we run into each other, it's like seeing an old cousin that you really enjoy.

I don't know.

Something about her feels like family.

So, did you leave or did they tell you to go to the bathroom?

No, they said, get the hell out of here.

I think what I've been told is that, and I don't know if this is true, but like some writers told me that they went to bat with Lauren to be like, hire her as a performer.

And he was like, no.

So

it, and I, and then the next heartbreaking or no?

It was, oh, yeah, it was so heartbreaking.

But that summer off, I shot Workaholics and then that became the job I did.

You auditioned for that?

No, I've known those guys for a while.

We were doing sketch comedy, like in between Brownling stuff.

Yeah, Devine and Anders and Blake and Kyle.

And they were like, we're going to shoot something.

Do you want to play a weird woman?

And I was like, always, baby.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Someone who lives with a lot of animals.

And

yeah, and then that took off.

So it was like the right timing for everything.

But at the time, I thought, this is the worst tragedy of my life.

Yeah, but right away.

Yeah, but right away we got something locked in.

That was like, that went on for years, right?

Yeah, it did.

And that's, that puts you on the map.

It did.

And honestly, because they, I don't know if it was out of laziness or cleverness, they kept our names the same.

So at least for Adam Blake, Anders, and me,

everyone else had names,

fake names.

But my name was Jillian Belk on the show.

So like, if anyone was like, Jillian, I was like, yeah.

And I hugged them because I was so nervous that I just didn't remember their face.

And they're like, oh, we don't know each other.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, that's fun.

Yeah.

And it was fun to work with guys you knew.

Yeah.

Because y'all know kind of what your strengths are.

Oh, totally.

And we know how to make each other laugh, too, because we've been friends forever.

Yeah.

Adam's a fun little guy.

Yeah.

Well, I don't know if he'd appreciate fun little guy, but.

No, he would.

He would take it.

I just saw him

at a comedy store thing, and I hadn't seen him in a while, but he's just like...

I don't know.

He's some guy.

He's a guy.

Like, there are some people that are just, you know, really ready for massive success.

Yeah.

And he's just one of those guys.

He's always been ready for it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

For me, I'm sort of like, I don't know if I, you know, if I can handle it or if I want it.

I think I'll just stay where I am.

And, you know, everything inside of me will create obstacles for me not to get to that other place.

As long as I can make a living at this place, I'll be okay because then I can still make fun of those other guys.

I feel like I'm having a conversation with my brain.

This is nice.

I know, but then there's those people.

I call it, you know what, lately I've been like, Ike Barenholtz isn't doing this shit to himself.

That's what I keep thinking.

Yeah.

Because he's a new one.

No, I think he might be.

You think?

Ike?

I like Ike.

He's a friend of mine, but we don't hang out all the time, so I don't know.

But I

assume he has no problems.

That guy?

Yeah.

I don't know.

I mean, I wouldn't.

Do you pick someone that you're like, oh, that person's like

he doesn't have these problems?

Like, The Rock is doing well.

Well, yeah, The Rock has no problems.

Yeah, he has no problems.

Like, you know, he eats a ton of fish a day.

Half of his life is maintaining that monster body.

And everybody loves him.

Oh, everybody loves him.

Everyone loves Iraq.

And you know what?

Whenever he has to come out and say something, we're like, that's why we love you.

He said the right thing.

Yeah, he just exudes a sort of like righteous niceness.

Yeah.

Yeah, but Ike, I mean, like, it's not like, I would never think that, like, that was an easy road.

I always view success as like someone who's like...

got constant work and seems to be enjoying it.

That's how I view success.

Oh, well, that's, yeah, I guess.

I mean, there's also the success of like, oh, that's one of the biggest movie stars of the world, right?

There's the rock.

Yeah, well, yeah, the people that are just aliens are genetically gifted and everybody just is so excited to see them no matter what.

I know.

I just did a show with Owen Wilson.

He's one of those guys.

People just love that guy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I don't necessarily get the feeling it's easy for Owen.

I think that there is something about, I think, if anything,

they may be,

you know, relaxed in their bodies.

Yes, maybe that's it.

And I, you know, I find I can envy that.

Yeah.

That there's a certain amount, and they know how to have,

they know how to have fun.

Yeah.

I don't know anything about that.

Like, like anybody who's like, yeah, we're going out for the weekend, me and a couple guys I grew up with, and we're going to spend the weekend on the mountain and just bring our own food.

I'm like, I don't even know what you're saying.

We do it every couple months.

months.

When's the last time you went to the mountains with buds and just farted and had beers?

Well, I never did that.

I do drag my friend who owns a record store up this hike nearby.

And every time he's almost passing out.

I mean, for the last two years,

he's like, I don't know what's wrong with me today.

See,

I don't picture you as a person that would go to a big bear cabin to get like a tree.

No, but

those are the people that like to be.

But I can picture you going to Joshua Tree.

Sure.

You know, I've done that, you know, and I don't always know what to do when I get there.

One night's enough.

Yeah.

I just picture.

I've stayed in Joshua Tree one time, and it was in the Airbnb, and it was with Charlotte Newhouse, and we got there, and there was just a TV with a VCR and all these VHSs, and we just watched, like, Mr.

Mom.

And I just, that's all I picture you doing now on Joshua Tree anyway.

Well, I'll go walk, and I'll take it in, and I'll try to force some sort of spiritual experience.

Sure.

Yeah, I'll push it.

Yeah.

I'll get to the top of the mountain and be like, yeah, this is kind of amazing.

Yeah.

All right.

That's good.

Where are you at spiritually?

What do you believe?

In general?

Yes, like basics.

I believe,

I guess, like, I've never been a real spiritual searcher guy.

Yeah.

And, you know, but I do believe that there is some

order to most of it.

And there's, we're in control of almost nothing.

Yes.

And I try to have some acceptance around that.

That's the best I can do.

That sounds so healthy.

It's kind of healthy.

I think I got some of it from recovery.

You know, but I have been doing jokes about this,

you know, because I'm doing these Zins.

What are Zins?

They're just nicotine.

But I...

I, you know, I always have something.

Yeah.

And, you know, I'm a recovering addict guy.

But I recently framed it as like, you know, you got to have something to hold back the big empty.

And then, and then I realized one night after I'd said it on stage, I'm like, well, if I were Buddhist, I would just accept the big empty.

So maybe I'm at the precipice.

Oh, I like that.

Of accepting the big empty.

I like Buddhism for you.

I do too.

I really like that.

What if your thing became, instead of the Zen stuff, you just got really into POS?

1990s POGs.

What are those?

They were like these little pieces of flat cardboard.

It almost looks like Eucharist

that you would like smack around and trade with your friends when you were in like fifth grade for me.

Well, yeah, I mean, I'm not adverse to those fleeting obsessions.

Yeah.

But eventually I just have like, you know, pogs up

somewhere.

And people go like, what are those?

I'm like, yeah, it was the thing I was

the thing I was playing around with for a while.

What's the weirdest one you got into for a while?

I remember a buddy of mine, like, he remembers like, you know, I'd buy raw wood, like, you know, boxes.

Like, there's a point where I was like, you know, I'm going to figure out how to finish wood

and sand it and, you know, and oil it.

And it never

came out quite right.

And

yeah, but that didn't last long.

You know, records happen, you know, sometimes cooking things.

Like right now,

I'm in a pretty big nut oil

phase.

State of mind.

Yeah, because I've been vegan for a couple of years and like I've just decided that walnut oil and pecan oil are the key because you have to get your omega somewhere if you're not eating meat.

And then I realized, like, well, if walnuts are supposed to be so good for everything, why not just use walnut oil?

So now I find a place that makes cold-pressed walnut oil.

And then I found another place that does cold-pressed pecans because some guy said pecan oil is better.

So then I'll put those in my smoothies or my oatmeal.

And it'll pass.

It'll pass.

But, you know, those are the kind of things, which is almost spiritual.

I love it because it's almost like your way of like, I'm just, you're just playing around with a lot of different things.

Well, it's also that thing about control.

Yeah.

Whether it's the good cereal.

Yeah.

You know, you, you, you, but I've had, you know, if I get interested in a musical act, you know, that I didn't know about, I'll get all their records and I won't listen to them.

You know, that kind of thing.

This is what I do this, but with writing.

It's always writing.

Spiritually, that's where you're at spiritually?

No, I mean like the obsession.

Well, where you're at spiritually.

Spiritually.

Well, I was raised Catholic.

For real?

Yes, I was.

And now I

believe in

aliens.

Yeah, sure.

Well, they proved that they're here, right?

Wasn't that leaked?

I don't know.

This last year?

Well, look, there were so many news stories, but I think that was one of them.

Yeah, I think one of them is president.

Yeah, yeah.

But

I guess I believe in God.

I do.

The alien thing for me, it's like, all right, you know what?

Either way,

I don't give a fuck.

Yeah, they're here or they're not here.

I wonder what they think of Independence Day, if they liked the film.

Yeah.

Or the D.B.

Sweeney fire in the sky.

Well, the thing that I used to I tried to do a joke about it, but I let it go.

That anytime you hear about these stories, it's like they found a dead one or they see them leaving.

So

it's never just one hanging out.

No, no, they clearly do not want anything to do with us.

No.

But you believe in God?

I do believe in God.

There's questions of why certain things are happening if God does exist, but

like why so many people suffer.

But yeah, I do.

I'm not, I'm, I, I'm a little bit of a spiritual person.

But you don't rely on God.

No, I don't.

And

I feel like I wish I did more because I was probably

probably felt safer when I did.

Yeah, I think it probably happened like very early on.

That was when you were holding your breath.

You're like, why isn't God

the story of like, why doesn't God come to save me?

Yeah, yeah.

But then it was like, I did.

I provided your mother and your father and everyone.

I love that joke.

I know.

The old Jewish joke.

I sent, what is it?

I sent a boat.

Yes.

I sent so many things for you.

It's a clever joke.

So how does, so

the workaholics kind of broke you and you did a lot of movies.

Yes.

And you show up in a lot of things and people are always happy to see you.

I hope that's how people talk about me when I'm dead.

Yeah.

You were in a lot of things, and people were happy when you came around.

Yeah, all these other things.

That's that lady.

What was she in?

I don't know, but people were happy to see her.

She's always good.

Look, she was there.

She's from Workaholics.

She has a very

light Montana feeling about her.

But how long had you been festering about directing?

I feel like, if I'm being honest, I probably wanted to do it for a very long time, but I didn't feel like,

I don't know, I didn't know when the time was right.

Because I do feel like there's a big thing for a lot of female directors.

I mean, there's directors, period, but a lot of female directors where, like, if their first movie is not a success, they get put in a thing called director jail.

I had heard that before as an actor and as a producer, being like, what about this director?

Yeah.

And they go, ah, she's in director's jail.

And I'm like, this thing is fucking bullshit.

But

I was like, I'm so nervous about failing on that one and then never getting to do it again.

Yeah, but that was a weird thing that you learned from Lynn.

It's like, if you align yourself with people that believe in you,

just fuck everybody.

I know, I know.

Just go get the money and shoot it out.

She shot that fucking movie in three weeks.

It was crazy.

What was it, like 11 days of shooting or something?

It was crazy.

Insane.

So, you know, and then, like I said, when I met with Lynn, I was like, like, I'm working with a director that absolutely, I think, does not want me to be in this movie.

And, and, and I'm seeing, like, you know, I've learned from great directors

like

Phil Lord and Chris Miller and Lynn Shelton.

And, you know, I've learned from the people who are egoless with it, like have their vision, but then kind of go, this is why I've hired these people.

And everyone's going to come together and collectively make a great film.

And then I've learned from the people who like see any

mention of an idea as like, you don't trust me as the director.

And I just think that that's not the way to go about it.

And I love storytelling.

I love going into worlds and like just losing yourself in it.

And when this came around, I was like, you know,

there's something in this script that I feel like I can really play around with.

And so I worked on it for about a year and a half, almost two years.

And

you know that the trick to placating actors is when they have an idea,

you have them do the straight take and then you're like, all right, go ahead and do the one you want to do.

Knowing in your mind.

And then you loudly go, use the first take.

Yeah.

Mark the first take.

No, but you do.

You learn that actors have different processes.

So you worked on this thing, though.

You had the idea?

I didn't have the idea.

The script came to me and then I did a lot of passes on it.

And who were the writers?

I mean, how did you find them?

I actually came on.

So there was our producer, Lucas Carter, came up with the idea, and he pitched it to these two writers.

So the pitch is this girl who's not.

Basically an inexperienced,

sexually inexperienced teenager.

Yeah, but kind of a nerd girl.

Yeah.

And she's playing against the popular girl.

Well, she's hired a local stripper to help her land the guy of her dreams the last week of school when she overhears that his favorite sexual position is a certain one.

She tries to go from zero to 69 in a week.

Yeah.

So it's like

yeah.

And for me, I was like, oh, that feels like an 80s movie.

This feels like a weird science John Hughes something.

Yeah.

Where I'm like, oh, big idea.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Big idea, but then let's ground it as much as possible and really make it a story about female friendship disguised as a sexy raunchy teen comedy.

Right, but but also like I the trick is like getting Chloe

Feynman.

Yes.

Is like, you know,

you have to make

you know, we're coming off the year of a Nora.

So you've got to figure out how to make sex workers teen friendly on some level.

Right.

Well, also, I think our way-in was really fun because I feel like a lot of times when you see a movie where there's a strip club, it's very dark and seedy, and the strippers aren't having a good time, and like you don't see the family dynamics between them.

And, like, the place that we shot at is actually called Diamond Dolls, and it's in Syracuse, New York.

Yeah, and those ladies are freaking family.

Well, I think it was very funny to cast Paula.

Oh my gosh, Paula Pell.

Yeah, I mean, because she is just the best.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And the first phone call I had with her, she goes,

You want me to show my tits?

And I go, Yeah.

She goes, they're great.

They look great.

I was like, thank God you're asking because I wanted to, but also I want you to feel comfortable.

But she was, every line out of that woman's mouth is just the best.

Well, I mean, and then like the only real sleaze guy that, you know, represents the most sleazy is what's his name?

Charlie Day.

Charlie Daya.

Yeah.

I didn't know it was him in the first scene.

You didn't?

Until he took his glasses off later.

Oh my gosh, that's amazing.

Why?

Just thought you didn't know that that was Charlie.

No, I mean, but he was kind of putting on a little bit of a voice.

He had the dark glasses on.

I didn't identify him until

he comes back at the end.

So I've only directed one other thing, which is a music video.

And Charlie Day and Mary Elizabeth Ellis, his wife, came and they were in it.

They starred in it.

So I directed one thing for one day, but like they were in it and they were so great.

And he said to me at the end of the day, which is so thoughtful, he was like, when you direct again, call me.

Yeah.

Because I'll come do something in it.

Okay.

And I was like, oh, thank God you're saying that.

And, and then I was like, I can't do that for him for this.

And then eventually I was like, okay, Charlie, what did you do?

And he was like, anytime.

When are we doing it?

Yeah.

And it turns out, like, you know, the balance of keeping it cute is tricky.

And the other strippers are funny.

But like, there is that moment,

like, um, all the, all this stuff is kind of like you're able to kind of mute the seediness so everyone kind of is lovable.

Right.

But like it's interesting how much that the moment pops when she goes into that house with those tweakers.

Yeah.

And there is a moment there where it's sort of like, oh, this is kind of.

Right.

Because you get to see the darker side of her job.

And I think that's the first time like Sam's character, Abby, is sort of like, oh, I'm not thinking about my journey and my, you know, obsession with Max right now.

Teen selfishness, yeah.

Yeah, teen selfishness.

I'm actually worried about my new friend.

And then the way she resolves it is hilarious because it would only work if they were really high.

Yeah, exactly.

Which is really fun.

So it was fun getting, I actually love that for those guys because they get to play such creepers and then they get a really fun laugh.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

I didn't know how that was going to go.

Yeah.

Oh, good.

I'm glad.

But yeah, I thought it was a sweet movie.

Are you like after you finish it,

do you have any notes for yourself now?

I mean, so many.

I feel like I learn every day

on that.

I'm mostly like,

you know, I do think it's nice whenever you work with a director who's also been an actor because they understand the vulnerabilities and how, you know, you can have a crazy shit going on in your home life and then have to come and, you know.

pretend to land the job or whatever it is that day.

And so I think there is this sensibility that we're, you know, we, we, we know that experience, but

I also know how I work and that's it.

So, like, I know how I like to approach a scene.

I know how, you know, how much I like getting notes or how little, depending on what I'm doing.

And, and, and everyone else is different.

So, a lot of times it was like,

oh, okay, it was, it was good to see, you know, you, or you overly shot something and you're like, we didn't need that much of that.

Okay, that's good to know.

You know, so it's like you're, you're, you're learning so,

so much.

And I think the thing that

I realized when it was done was that I was like, I just want to keep doing this as much as I can.

Oh, yeah.

I've loved directing.

And it just was interesting to me that I had the response I had initially.

Yeah.

Well, only because like

I had to put it into some sort of framework in my head that like.

kids now who are teenagers know a lot more than we did and than I did.

I mean, I'm 61 and that, you know, there is a vocabulary around this stuff that is beyond their years.

Right.

And that, you know, once it starts to land more in kind of like, oh, they're still kids kind of stuff.

Yeah.

You know, I was relieved.

Yes, I know, I know.

There is some innocence in there, which is like inspired by, you know, a lot of it is inspired by my own journey with sex and all of that.

But I, I went to Catholic school.

Abby goes to Catholic school.

Yeah.

I was very much like Abby.

I was very much out of the loop on things.

And my sister had to explain what stuff was to me.

And I wasn't ready for certain things.

And I think too, like, the thing that I love about the movie is like, it's also being like, if you're not ready, you're not ready.

And

there's all this expectation.

Like, I, I know I said it was like a coming of age story for two different ages, which I think is kind of fun because usually it's like two buddies the same age or one person, you know?

Or if, or if you have something like hacks, where it's like they're, they're pretty different ages and going through something.

But what I love about it is like

there are all these marks, especially for ladies, but like, of like, okay, by this age, by 18, you should have had sex.

By 28, you should be owning a business or married if you're, you know, if that's what you want.

Right.

I'm 40 and now I'm hitting the age where it's like, you, this, you have kids or you don't.

Like, this is it.

Right.

So it's like, and your doc said you should do it now.

I know.

And I'm like, so it's like, we're always kind of in a coming of age, just

no matter where we go.

Yeah, yeah.

So I thought, like,

I would still watch this film at 40 and be like, oh, I can relate to that feeling.

Well, yeah, I thought it was good

to make a decision, you know, like, cause, you know, you get, there's movies that are, you know, intentionally meant to be gritty and to have an effect.

And then there are movies that are, you know, the conceit is that we're doing a comedy here.

Yeah.

And that, you know, these characters have to be balanced.

Yeah.

And we wanted it to feel like a little bit of like the more real it can feel and the more grounded and

not so poppy.

Like there's a lot of teen comedies that are like, they look like target ads.

Like you just rip the tags off the character's backpack.

And I didn't want that.

I wanted it to feel like lived in Abby's coming from sort of like a 1950s innocence at the beginning.

And then Santa Monica's is like very modern, you know, rock songs and all of that.

And then they sort of meet in the middle in the 70s and 80s.

And that's kind of where we like,

you know, find their friendship.

And yeah, the tone and the music style and all of that.

They're clothes.

Yeah.

And

so there's just something really fun about that.

And we've been getting a lot of reviews being like, it feels like there's a lot of nostalgic in John Hughes feels.

And I'm like, that's everything I want to do.

Yeah,

well, that's great.

And it's like...

Kyle Mooney did that Y2K thing,

which is a take on that teen movie.

Yeah.

And I thought it was good.

I still have not seen it.

Is it out yet?

It's around.

I saw it.

Okay.

I'm going to see it because I really want to see that.

Because I watched it because he's such an odd guy.

Yeah, yeah.

And I'm like, what did he make?

And it's really, it's a take on one of those kind of like sci-fi teen movies.

Yeah.

It's like if white 2K actually happened.

Yeah, yeah.

If it really happened and all the machines kind of ganged up.

That's it.

But then there's a big monster that's made of toasters and refrigerators and stuff.

That's a blast.

Yeah.

But it's interesting that your generation, because I don't know what, I can't remember what the hell the movies were when I was a teenager.

I guess I really didn't see those kind of movies when I was in high school, but you end up seeing them somehow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's always teen movies, though, I feel like.

Like, even if it's, I'm trying to think of.

Like Ordinary People was a teen movie.

Yeah.

By the way, I tried watching that the other night because it's one of my favorite.

It's my second favorite movie.

So it's Clue and then Ordinary People.

Don't watch that if you're going through a hard time mentally.

It's, you're just watching a man suffering.

Yeah, but I remember seeing that as a teenager and it was about a teenager and like, I don't remember the funnier movies of the time.

Yeah.

Like when I was in like junior high.

Jesus, I mean, I

don't know.

I graduated high school in 81.

So I was in junior high in like 75.

Yeah.

Well, what the fuck were those movies?

Don't you just want to know now?

Yeah, are you going to look it up?

Yeah.

I mean, I, I was of the time of like, we were all still watching the Don Hughes movies, even though that was like kind of, I was born in 84.

And then when I was coming up, it was like Clueless.

Clueless was the biggest movie on the planet when I was in school.

Let's see, 70s teen movies.

Okay, here we got a list.

Meatballs.

Meatballs.

Corvette Summer, didn't see it.

Ice Castle, didn't see it.

American Graffiti.

That's a little, I saw that with my dad.

Grease.

Grease.

Carrie, okay.

The Wanderers, I did see that.

That's 79.

Rock and Roll High School.

I think I saw it.

Takedown, I don't know, Cooley High.

Aaron Loves Angela, don't know.

Lemon Popsicle, nope.

Want to hold your hand.

I kind of remember seeing that.

Summer of 42.

Hey.

Yeah, but that was 71.

That's 10.

So I was like nine.

Yeah, right.

The last picture show I saw, but that was The Warriors, yes.

Okay.

Interesting.

Those are just movies, though.

Those aren't comedies.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah.

That there weren't that many of those comedies.

Well, because the 70s was like also like a lot of horror.

So I would think like

whenever it was teenagers, it was like Halloween or something.

Yeah.

I think the great age of teen comedies was probably the 80s.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, great job.

Can I put that on our trailers?

Yeah, sure.

Can I just put great job, Mark Marin?

You got to put the, all right.

You said it was, it was cute.

Yeah.

Okay, it was cute, Mark Maron.

Yeah.

But is that condescending?

It sounds a little condescending, but I know you don't mean it that way.

I was, did you hear how surprised I was that you watched it?

Yeah.

It just doesn't feel like a Mark Maron film, but I watch them.

I'm proud you did.

Well, I think, I think cute is good.

Yeah, it means like sweet.

Like you had, like you had it, you ended up having a good time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Not a good time.

A good time.

I was able to understand the conceit of the movie.

Yes.

And then, you know, once I settled into it, I was like, oh.

Okay, good.

Okay, good.

That's what I mean.

Okay, good.

Yeah.

Yeah, maybe that's the blurb.

I was like, oh.

I love that you're trying to figure out your blurb right now for the trailer.

All right.

There you go.

I think we covered a lot of good stuff.

Summer of 69 streams on Hulu starting May 9th.

Always good to see Jillian.

Hang out for a minute.

Hey, folks, we've got the latest Ask Mark Anything episode posted for Fulmarin subscribers.

It's an all-new batch of questions from WTF listeners like this one.

What was the impact of the Patrice O'Neill episode, and what are your feelings about it in hindsight?

I think it's a very popular episode.

I think it's a very thorough and

good

kind of

audio portrait of who that guy was.

I loved talking to him.

I thought that he was

at times a problematic guy in the way he thought about things, but he definitely had a way of thinking about things.

And when some of his jokes that were the most provocative landed as a performer, no one was really as good as him.

And his

whole being and presence on stage was something

completely unique and powerful.

I feel in hindsight that, again, like I said, I think it's

a very thorough and great representation of Patrice.

I think it's a great

testimony to who he

was.

I like that it's out there.

And again,

you know, some of the things that he talked about and some of the ways he frames things are not the way I would and may be problematic to me or some others,

but that's who he was.

And I'm glad we had that time.

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Here's some guitar I spent a long time on because I'm trying to kind of lock into this riff that I might want to,

you know,

kind of do with the band for the opening and closing of my HBO special.

But this is just raw stuff, and I kind of botch it up a little bit, but it did take a long time.

And I really get to a point where I just think I suck a guitar.

But

I'm going to give it to you.

You're going to hear it.

And just a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by ACAST.

Boomer lives, monkey and the fondant at cat angels everywhere.