Starting A Business For More Freedom & Flexibility

Speaker 1 Hello, and welcome to the UCAN podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Jolly Jarvis, and today I am joined by Liz Stanford.

Speaker 1 Now, Liz and I have got a bit of history, really, which we will come on to in a little bit.

Speaker 1 But to start off with, I'm going to get Liz to introduce herself because today we're going to be talking around starting a business and your motivations behind having a business and how we can kind of how things can evolve over time.

Speaker 1 And that's what's happened with Liz. So, over to you, Liz.
Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Speaker 2 Hi, thank you, Sarah, for having me on your podcast. I'm really excited to be here.
So, my name is Liz Stanford, and I have two businesses.

Speaker 2 One is called the Calm Birth School, which is a hypno-birthing training business, and one is called BABA, the Birth and Baby Business Academy, which is a membership for birth and baby business owners to help them with their businesses.

Speaker 1 Can help me.

Speaker 1 Brilliant. Okay, so Liz and I met with the Calm Birth School when you were an instructor.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, back when I was pregnant with my first, Clara.

Speaker 1 And yeah, Liz. And then actually, and then I had a little session with you as well for number two as well.

Speaker 1 So yes, yes.

Speaker 2 So I knew Martin, your husband, before I met you. Wasn't I working with Martin? I think I was.
And then that's how we kind of connected. So

Speaker 2 yeah, that my

Speaker 2 journey feels like, oh God, it feels so long. And I'm I'm rubbish at timelines.
So forgive me when I'm thinking like, what happened first and when did this happen?

Speaker 2 But I've, I've been running my own business now for

Speaker 2 full time, probably for about eight years.

Speaker 1 But I decided

Speaker 2 full time for eight years, part time, probably for about three

Speaker 2 or four years. Yeah, part-time through it when it was a side hustle.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 How did it all come come about?

Speaker 2 So after I, so I've got three children and after I gave birth to my first child who just turned 17 a couple of weeks ago, so that seems like a lifetime ago.

Speaker 2 Shortly after I gave birth to her, like literally within weeks, I started thinking, I don't want to go back to work. Like everything felt so totally, totally different to me.

Speaker 2 My job at the time,

Speaker 2 I was a like a PA office manager for a security company, and I loved my job. I loved the people that I worked with, I got a lot of satisfaction, a lot of fulfillment from it.

Speaker 2 I was paid very well, there was lots of bonuses, it was there was nothing wrong with the job, and I thought I could go back and be as committed and

Speaker 2 as like involved. Like, I used to work crazy hours and not think anything of it, like it was totally normal.
Um, but after having a baby, I just remember thinking, How can I like I can't do that.

Speaker 2 I cannot do that anymore. I'm going to miss so much or like, I'm not going to have any kind of life whatsoever.
So I started thinking, like, what can I do? What can I do? How can I,

Speaker 2 how can I generate money to support my family? Because at that time, there was no way that I could have not contributed. And I remember saying to my husband, I don't really want to go back to work.

Speaker 2 And he just looked at me and he goes, no, no, no, you have to to go back to work.

Speaker 2 Like, what are you talking about? You have to go back to work. And I was thinking, yeah, but maybe.
And I think I was just really naive. Like, I was looking at things like

Speaker 2 MLMs, thinking, could I make money like as an Avon lady or something like that? And I know people who make so much money and do so well from those kind of things. It's not for me though.

Speaker 2 It's definitely not the thing for me.

Speaker 2 But like absolute hats off to people who can manage that and I looked at other things I started thinking could I set up a cleaning company with my I hate cleaning my own house but I was like I could maybe do it run a cleaning company all of these things anyway I had to put it to bed for um for a little while and then I had my second child and I felt the same again after I had him like I don't want to go back I don't want to go back

Speaker 2 And I found, I just found it really, really challenging. And my husband said to me, why don't you train in hypnobirthing? Because hypnobirthing was what I used to prepare for both of my children.

Speaker 2 And I was like, me, me, you're talking to me. Because I had no like teaching experience, no business experience, like nothing.
And he was like, yeah, you would be really, really good at it.

Speaker 2 So between him and my mom, they kind of bullied me into it, pushed me into it. I went and did the training.
And it was a difficult time, actually, because I, it was two years after my son was born.

Speaker 2 And shortly after I did the training,

Speaker 2 I eventually did the training two years after he told me to do it. My husband told me to do it.

Speaker 2 I then found myself in the pits of depression. So I had

Speaker 2 what they called postnatal depression, but I would just call it depression now.

Speaker 2 And that was incredibly challenging to navigate whilst learning something new and trying to set up a business. But I did it.
And thankfully, thankfully, I did it.

Speaker 2 So that's where I started as a hypnobirthing instructor with absolutely no,

Speaker 2 zero, zero business knowledge, no clue what on earth I was supposed to do, how to get clients or how to promote myself. Social media was not what it is now.

Speaker 2 And yeah, it's just been such a journey since then that I've ended up now

Speaker 2 owning my own hypnobirthing training company, writing a training program,

Speaker 2 training people all over the world

Speaker 2 to become hypnobirthing instructors and to create their own business.

Speaker 2 And then setting up another business at the same time. So it's been a journey and a half, Sarah.
I have to say

Speaker 1 it has.

Speaker 1 So, what was motivating you in that?

Speaker 1 Was it just

Speaker 1 I don't want to go back? What was it about going back to work that

Speaker 2 it was like the lack of flexibility,

Speaker 2 the lack of control that you have over your own time. And I remember the first day that my daughter went to, luckily I had my parents and my in-laws did like all the childcare.

Speaker 2 So I was very lucky in that respect, didn't have to pay for any of that.

Speaker 2 But I remember the first day my daughter went to my mum's house and I went to see her at lunchtime.

Speaker 2 And I was just in floods of tears at the thought of like going back to the office and just like leaving her. And also like a little bit of resentment of like, why did they get to see all of this?

Speaker 1 That's horrible.

Speaker 2 I wasn't even paying for childcare, getting free childcare. And I was like, why do you get to see all the good bits? And I'm stuck at work four days a week.

Speaker 2 So I'd managed to just go down to four days a week.

Speaker 2 And that, you know, that felt very hot because it was very different in my mum's day. She didn't work until I was at secondary school and then she started working part-time.

Speaker 2 So she was literally there for me

Speaker 2 and my siblings all the time.

Speaker 2 So I was like,

Speaker 2 she got to watch me do all this. And now she's watching my daughter do all this, you know, and my mother-in-law as well.

Speaker 2 It was very, like, so mixed emotions and so difficult because you've got so much gratitude that they're doing this for you. But at the same time, you're like, but I really want to.

Speaker 1 Which kind of makes it worse, though, doesn't it? Because you're kind of, you're like, I'm supposed to be grateful here, but actually, this is not the emotion that I'm currently feeling.

Speaker 2 Yeah, this is not what I want. It's not what I want at all.
So I found it very challenging. So I think that that was always my motivation: that I wanted to be able to spend more time with my children.

Speaker 2 I wanted to drop them off, pick them up, go to like, you know, whatever plays they have, help out at school if I needed to, like, be part of their,

Speaker 2 you know, their school lives and have, you know, have time for me as well. Because I know you go to work, you come back.

Speaker 2 There's so much that comes with being a mother and a and a wife and and a parent in general like you there's just so much emotional load but then there's just so much physical load that you've got to do as well and I just wanted more balance like I wanted to live not like work

Speaker 1 live a little bit work live a little bit so that was definitely my motivation I get that because I so I had Clara and everyone was telling me, oh, you'll be different.

Speaker 1 You'll be different when you, when you, you know, you're going to go back. And I was like, yeah, yeah, I'll go back.
I'll go back full time.

Speaker 1 And they're like, you're going to go back full time after having a baby. And I'm like, yep, yep, nothing's going to change.
And then I went round a nursery in actually Hatton. And

Speaker 1 they were showing us round and they said, oh, we put them into little tables so that they're all sat like they're around the

Speaker 1 family table because that for some of them, that's the only, if they're here five days a week, that's the only family meal time that they get is with the other kids pretending to have a family, basically.

Speaker 1 And I was like, and she was strapped on my front and I was like, in one of my little carriers and I was like, that's not happening.

Speaker 1 I remember kissing her on the head and being like, there is no way that these children are going to be your pretend family.

Speaker 1 And that was when I thought, you know what? Yeah, I need to do something. I need to do something different.

Speaker 1 And it was just, it's so weird because Until that was kind of pointed out to me, I was quite adamant that this was the route forwards.

Speaker 1 And then I was like, this is absolutely, definitely not going to be the route forwards.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 I set up my business on maternity leave.

Speaker 1 And that was kind of how I went about it. And I've worked a kind of mixture of different days per week ever since.

Speaker 1 I am up to four days a week now. So I do feel a little bit like, oh, you know, like it's almost like I'm back at a job.
But

Speaker 1 that Friday, I've got like that is my Friday with him. And it's like my work hours.
I send them off in the morning. Martin drops them now at school.

Speaker 1 And I pick them up. And it's like, you know, you finish at three.
And that's the thing is I've not missed Thoughts Day,

Speaker 1 you know, open book day,

Speaker 1 what they are. But, you know, you've got where you go in and look at their books once a term and you now multiply that by three.

Speaker 1 And they put them on different days and you're able to do it. And that's the thing is, is there's no asking somebody.
And I think that's what I found was

Speaker 1 that thought that I don't want somebody standing in the way of me,

Speaker 1 like me having to ask, can I do this with my child? just seems so, it felt so wrong.

Speaker 1 And I felt like that is not going to happen. And I remember I had a colleague who I worked with when I was a medical rep.
And

Speaker 1 she wasn't, she was at conference. So we have conferences just before Christmas.
She was at conference at the same time as her daughter's reception nativity play.

Speaker 1 And they she said, Can I, can I come later? Can I go back and come back? Can I do something so that I can go to watch the nativity play? And they said, No.

Speaker 1 And so she

Speaker 1 the school let her see the rehearsal, but she wasn't there for her daughter's first nativity play. And

Speaker 1 I remember thinking, Why was you? She was so upset. She's basically spent the evening in tears, bless her.
And I remember being like, If I was you, I would have quit.

Speaker 1 Because it wasn't the fact that I could relate to my child scenario. It was just that feeling of being restricted.
Yeah. And I was just like, yeah, no, that's that's not happening.

Speaker 2 No, definitely, definitely. I know somebody listening to this might be thinking, well, but I don't, I don't have an option.
You know, I don't have an option.

Speaker 2 I really want to be self-employed full-time and, you know, run my own life, but I don't have an option. And I think,

Speaker 2 you know, you're, you're, we've got different mindsets, definitely. I think you make a decision, strike while the iron's hot and like go for it.

Speaker 2 Whereas I'm like, I'm going to take four years to decide, like,

Speaker 2 to decide I'm actually going to do this. So, you can do it on your own timeline.
I think I was very lucky with my bosses. So, the

Speaker 2 boss at the security company was really, really flexible. And then I did have another job.
I left there and I got another job where I met Martin and

Speaker 2 I worked for them for quite a few years as well. And they were very flexible.
Again, you know, great, great people, great atmosphere. It's like you don't want,

Speaker 2 it's almost like you don't want to leave, but you really do want to leave. So I was glad I got to a point where I made a decision that no, I need to leave now.

Speaker 2 And I left because my business was earning me more than what I was earning working part-time. So at that point, I was working, I think I was working three days or maybe

Speaker 2 two, two days, two and a half days, or something like that. So I was thinking, well, this business is earning me more than what I'm earning working for somebody.

Speaker 2 Imagine if I put all my time into the business, I could probably make up the rest of that salary that I was earning and maybe more. And it is a real leap of faith.

Speaker 2 I wouldn't say to anybody, you know, to just like pack in the job, especially like I was, you know, very reliant on that monthly income.

Speaker 2 But I did it when it felt safe safe and when it felt right to me. And I did it with my husband's, you know, 100% support, which I know not everybody has.

Speaker 2 Like, we have, we have both got very supportive husbands. So it's,

Speaker 2 I do think that that makes a big difference to women making decisions.

Speaker 2 It's sad, but if the man is the

Speaker 2 breadwinner, let's say, and they're the one who kind of directs all the finances and they tell you, like, this is the amount of money that you need, which my husband did, you know, initially, and it was true, like, no, we can't do that, then you, you know, you do feel a little bit stuck.

Speaker 2 But I would always say

Speaker 2 keep that conversation going with your partner. Like, keep telling them how passionate you are about wanting to create like a better lifestyle for all of you.

Speaker 2 Um, so that you can all, you can have that more kind of like family unit, and family, family time feels easier. And it's easier on your partner as well if they're corporate.

Speaker 2 If you're working from home, not saying that you're doing the dishes or running around, like putting a washing on all the time, but there are things that you can do that just makes the

Speaker 2 house kind of flow more easily as well.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, definitely. I think that's the thing is, is I've come across a lot of people who, you know, I think it's a natural progression that if you don't have support for your business,

Speaker 1 that you end up looking for that support. And so I work with a lot, a lot of my clients don't have that support necessarily at home.
You know, you have people who are waiting for you to

Speaker 1 kind of get it out of your system and go and get a proper job and all that kind of stuff. And

Speaker 1 I can imagine that is, you know, having supported people in that scenario, it is a very frustrating place to be. It's a very upsetting place to be.

Speaker 1 And it does make you doubt yourself at a time when you do doubt yourself anyway.

Speaker 1 I mean, gosh, putting yourself in a position of having your own business, you really are putting all your personality under a microscope.

Speaker 1 definitely does make you realize your your pros and cons and your strengths and your weaknesses um and areas development um but it does really you know it it's understanding you know this is what i want and getting clear on that motivation and i think when you're clear on that motivation what i always get people to do what you were saying before liz about you know when it feels right when it feels safe is you know i always get people when they are in that position where they're setting something up on the side to have that number So to have a number of amount of money in the account or amount of revenue per month you're bringing in or both

Speaker 1 so that you have you're really, really clear when you are going to resign.

Speaker 1 And it's like, when I get to this number, I will resign because for a lot of people, I meet, they're wanting to leave something that they don't enjoy.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 when it comes to the point of actually

Speaker 1 handing you a notice, you're like, oh, maybe I could just go another month. And And then it's almost addictive because you know that you could.
And it's like, it never seems like a good time.

Speaker 1 And it's like, you know, have you resigned? No, it wasn't a good time this week because this happened. And it's such, it is such a big deal.
And it's such a safety blanket.

Speaker 1 And I think, you know, that's the thing is, is I use the safety blanket. I, because I am quite make a decision, go for it.

Speaker 1 But even with that, I had my maternity leave and my thought process was: if this isn't, if this hasn't got enough potential, if I've not got got enough going on by the time I look to go back as it happened I was pregnant with my second one and which was the explanation that I gave to work was I am actually already pregnant again and so you don't it's not really fair or you don't really want me back

Speaker 1 but you know I remember them being like well if if things change if if you want to come back you know we'll find something within there'll always be something for you and I remember having that as a bit of a safety blanket and then I remember one day working out my numbers before I went to a networking meeting.

Speaker 1 And I realized that I was now earning more than I was taking home in my old business, in my old corporate job.

Speaker 1 And I thought that would be a moment of feeling really liberated and being like, yeah, I've done it.

Speaker 1 And actually, I just felt really weird that my safety blanket was no longer a safety blanket because it was there.

Speaker 1 But I would have to take a pay cut. Do you know what I mean? Like, in order to take the safety route.
And I remember thinking, so that really isn't a viable option anymore. And I really felt really,

Speaker 1 yeah, like out on a limb and quite vulnerable with it. It was really, really strange feeling.
That is, that's really interesting.

Speaker 2 And like, not the same, but similar. I now feel unemployable.

Speaker 2 So I did actually do

Speaker 2 because I'm a coach as well, a mindset coach and a business coach. And I did actually go and do a contract a short-term contract coaching for another company back in 2021 and that was like

Speaker 2 it's just so weird so weird so i was back in this kind of i didn't have my second business i didn't have the birth and baby business academy but i had this kind of

Speaker 2 business the carnberg school which is quite significant in terms of the amount of work that it takes and the people involved. And I decided, because I wanted to try it.

Speaker 2 I was like, I would really like to coach people outside my industry to see what it's like. Like, is it

Speaker 2 different?

Speaker 2 What, you know, what could I learn? What could I do?

Speaker 2 But it was trying to fit in to somebody else's timetable and somebody else's goals and vision and priorities really affected how I ran my business. And I ended up the busiest I have ever, ever been.

Speaker 2 And I think

Speaker 2 I lasted four months. And then I was like, I literally, I cannot, I cannot do this.

Speaker 2 So now my safety nets has completely gone as well, because I'm, I'm now on this trajectory where it's like, I cannot go back to employed work.

Speaker 2 Not, not that I've ever thought that I would, but it's just, yeah, it's not there. It's not possible.

Speaker 2 What does that do to you then, Sarah? Does that make you feel like more motivated? Or does it, does it now, does it make you feel, are you over that completely? Or?

Speaker 1 Oh, no, i'm no i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm thankfully over it i don't think you could stay in that state of like

Speaker 1 for that long um but i yeah i remember because it was between it was between clara and ethan so it was but yeah and um and i was like it was a really weird feeling because i i always thought that it would be it's a bit like you know when you've you've exchanged on a house and you've completed and you're like i've sold it and it's like

Speaker 1 you thought you'd be like jumping for joy, cracking open the champagne, but actually, you're just relieved.

Speaker 1 It was quite anti-climaxy in that way. And that I was a bit like, oh.
And then I thought, actually, I feel a bit vulnerable. It makes me feel a bit weird.

Speaker 1 And I think, yeah, now I think

Speaker 1 having that time and of building up the confidence, it's like doing anything. You then build up the confidence of actually, yeah, okay, I did it that month and I've done it again.

Speaker 1 And I've gone off and had a baby and come back and done it again.

Speaker 1 And so you've got that feeling of, you know what, if I need to get clients, if I want to get clients, if I want to launch something, I can.

Speaker 1 And like, you know, it tends to, yes, we've all had things that we've tested and haven't gone so well, but it tends to, it tends to respond the way you expect it to.

Speaker 1 You know, there's always, you know, because obviously you have got the fact that you work for yourself. My husband works for himself as well.

Speaker 1 So you don't have that set up of corporate scenarios for people being ill and things like that. And obviously, we've had to navigate that as well when Martin was poorly.
Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 So, I think I'm always a plan A, Plan B, Plan C kind of person. And so, you've always got the sort of backup thoughts of, well, if everything went wrong, this is what I'd do.

Speaker 1 And if everything went, or if that went didn't work, then this is what I'd do. And I still have thought processes around that, but they are no longer tied to ringing up old bosses

Speaker 1 and being like, Yeah, you know, you said like,

Speaker 1 you know, seven years ago, but are you still there?

Speaker 1 Yeah, so you know, that wouldn't be my kind of route, but I think it, you know, it's always good to have a thought process of this is what I would do.

Speaker 1 But I think that kind of safety blanket in my head had kind of gone from under me, and then I was like, now what do I do?

Speaker 1 Completely, yeah, I had to create a new plan B and a new plan C, but I think it's good to have those kind of thought processes and plans in place.

Speaker 1 I've got clients who they've gone through quite a lot of personal stuff, and it is very difficult running your own business and navigating parents being ill, partners being ill,

Speaker 1 all that, all those kind of scenarios without even looking into your own, you know, your own health side of stuff. So, there's always a kind of future-proofing and thought process.

Speaker 2 And there's always pros and cons to everything, isn't there? So, you know, if you like, if you are looking after somebody who's poorly or,

Speaker 2 you know, caring for elderly parents, etc., if you were employed, it would be even more difficult to do that.

Speaker 2 Although I know it still affects your ability to earn money as a self-employed business, but yeah,

Speaker 2 it's working out what just suits you better, what makes you feel most comfortable and what suits you best. But that's such a good idea.

Speaker 2 I think anyone who's thinking, you know, oh, what would I do if I did like leave my part-time job and go full in on the side hustle? Then exactly what you said.

Speaker 2 I think you've got to sit down i did do this with my husband initially we sat down and we were like right so if in one month you don't earn x amount like the amount that i needed to contribute here's what we'll do so we've got money from here we've got money from there and so maybe we could cover like maybe um you know a couple of months three months maybe um but after that

Speaker 2 That's it. Like literally, that's it.
That is your that is your buffer.

Speaker 2 And I remember feeling like, ah, but that was good motivation as well that was like well i can't can't drop any any balls here i have got to keep going and keep finding new ways of getting clients and getting the word out there and i found i did find that quite motivating and in a positive way for me i know sometimes some people might find that really anxiety inducing but for me it was just more like driving me forward and and i just took it seriously i took my business seriously and i know a lot of women when they start out in business there's that level of embarrassment when somebody says, Oh, how's uh, how's things going?

Speaker 2 How's your business? Oh, yeah, oh, it's fine, oh, it's just a hobby, really. Or, you know, if someone says, like, oh, how's your little business?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 you've got to, you've got to put your boundary in straight away and say, My business is it's going well. Thank you.
Yeah, I'm really loving it. I'm enjoying it.

Speaker 2 Um, do you want to hear about what I do? Every day is a networking opportunity, as far as I'm concerned.

Speaker 1 I think that's the thing, though, isn't it?

Speaker 1 It's very easy to make assumptions, particularly with for women in business, that you know, oh, it's just a little bit of a hobby for them, really.

Speaker 1 You know, like it doesn't really matter, they don't really have to bring in the money. Um, and you know, that's a massive assumption over the setup in their household and everything else.

Speaker 1 Um, and I think the thing is, is it's you know, it's understanding, as you say, your buffers and you know what the plan is if something doesn't if something doesn't work out, and having those conversations is really, really key so that you know the plan.

Speaker 1 You know, I speak to people who are regularly like, oh, if this doesn't work, then I'm going to have to go and get a job. And it's like you can get to the point where you've already mentally given up.

Speaker 1 And I think that's the thing is, is you're really fortunate that that kind of pressure drives you. Whereas some people, that pressure just makes them freeze.
And they,

Speaker 1 this is where this whole understanding of your own mentality and mindset comes in again, because it's actually like, oh, when this happens, I thought I'd be like this, but actually I'm more like this.

Speaker 1 And so, you know, if anxiety takes over, then you end up doing nothing. You'll go into kind of the freeze mode of doing nothing about it.
And then you're just kind of waiting for it to happen to you.

Speaker 1 Whereas it's that feeling of, you know what? Backs up against the wall. I've got to do this.
I've got to put this effort in. And that's the kind of spirit you want.

Speaker 1 But even with somebody, even when you feel yourself, that's how I'll be.

Speaker 1 It's very interesting actually what happens when that scenario hits and how you respond to it. And that self-reflection can really help you to kind of move forwards and understand yourself better

Speaker 1 for next time and kind of work to your strengths.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because it doesn't go away. Like the, you always need to be able to earn money.
And as you get more comfortable, like as you earn more money and you adapt to that lifestyle, you need more money.

Speaker 2 So you need the bar just keeps getting higher and higher. And, you know, even now, like sometimes I'll be like, oh, my numbers are a bit low for, you know, whatever course I've got in the future.

Speaker 2 And I'll get a bit of a, hmm, right, we've got to do something about that. And it's, again, it's a drive and it's a motivation.
It's like, oh, what could I do?

Speaker 2 Have I followed up on all the inquiries that I had? Have I checked in with those people? Have I, you know, what about a masterclass? Should I do that? Should I, what about my socials?

Speaker 2 Are they up to date or relevant newsletters things like that you know making sure that that people are actually hearing about what i'm doing that i'm getting the word out there and that i'm actually

Speaker 2 giving myself the opportunity to sell to people as well so it doesn't go away but you get better at it and it continues to to drive me anyway thankfully Excellent.

Speaker 1 So, Liz, in kind of conclusion, where can people find out more about you?

Speaker 2 So, if anybody's interested in training to teach hypnobirthing, they can find me over at the Calm Birth School on Instagram, or you can take a look at the website, which is thecalmbirthschool.com.

Speaker 2 If anyone is a birth or baby business owner, so that could be anyone, like could be somebody who's a baby sleep consultant, could be an IBCLC, hypnobirthing instructor,

Speaker 2 breastfeeding supporter, any, any, any area, maybe like a children's activity business or anything like that, you can find me over on BABA, BABA Business, which is B-A-B-B-A business on Instagram.

Speaker 2 And actually, anyone who's even thinking about what would it be like to get into the birth or baby world, to like, you know, do some training and set up a business within that world, then BABA would probably be a good place for you to start as well.

Speaker 1 Excellent. Well, thank you so much, Liz, for your time.
It has been lovely to speak to you. Next week, guys, I will be doing a solo episode.

Speaker 1 So, I'm talking more about business growth and those realities of day in and day out, what to do to get your business moving in the right direction. So, that's it for me, guys, this week.

Speaker 1 Look forward to speaking to you again next week. Bye for now.