Mastering Authority: How Writing a Book Elevates Your Brand and Generates Powerful Leads

Hello guys and welcome to this week's edition of the UCAN podcast. Today I am joined by the very lovely Karen Stanley of Mabel and Stanley Publishing and we are going to be talking around publishing your own book.
So Karen if you'd like to do a little introduction to you and what you're all about. I will do, thank you.
So I started writing myself about 11 years ago. And after a very tumultuous and bumpy publishing journey, I came to the point where I'm at now.
I started Mabel and Stanley Publishing about in 2021, I think now. I'm on to about 50 authors published coming up to number 50 pretty soon and I'm a writing mentor and publisher having taught literacy for about 20 years I think so I've pretty much been all about books my whole life really and now I get to do what I love which is write and help people to write their books so it's wonderful.
So tell me like what what's the point in writing a book I'm a big fan um but you know what's your kind of take on it where have you seen it work for people well there's two types of writers I think there's business writers which is obviously what we're going to talk about a bit more today and there's writers who write for pleasure and they they tend to be more like fiction writers but we're talking about business writers the thing about business books is they are not going to make you a millionaire overnight despite what people tell you and it's a bit of a shame but that's just life but um what they will do is open up lots of opportunities and I when I talk about writing I like to think of your book as kind of like the pebble you know you drop the pebble in the water and it's the ripples that come out. And it's those ripples of opportunity that are invaluable to business owners.
Talking about things like speaking gigs, a very good friend of mine who published her book, Beyond the Feed, you can see it behind me, spoken all over the world and was struggling to get speaking gigs in America. Some people will only want you to speak if you're published there's quite a lot of kudos attached to that it can very much um position you as a thought leader in your field as an industry expert because you're actually putting your money where your mouth is really you're putting your thoughts onto a page and opening opening up your expertise for people to buy it's the probably one of the best lead magnets you'll ever create because it gets you know those customers who might or future clients who think well do I want to work with that person they might read your book and think yeah I definitely want to work with that person now and they've got that time to read what you're talking about without that pressure to maybe engage straight away it gives them that kind of thinking time really to kind of get into your world so i would say from a point of view of a lead magnet from speaking opportunities from expertise kudos credibility there's still an awful lot of credibility attached to writing a business book because as you know it's not an easy thing you know it takes commitment i've had i've had lots of weeping mentorees on my books over the years but um you you know, it is difficult and it takes time and commitment.
So rightly so, it's still very highly regarded. So it's a wonderful thing.
Yeah, and touching on that point, it isn't straightforward to do. It does take a lot of effort.
What do you think people struggle with the most? A few things, really. One is sometimes just organising their thoughts and ideas and quite often the problem is they come to me with so many ideas they literally don't know where to start.
It's almost like they're overwhelmed. So then we start to, a rather unpleasant analogy, but we start to brain dump everything that they've got in their head we kind of get that all out

and then we soon soon start to quickly realize that maybe well you've actually got two books here or you've really got that all of those ideas are a book but those ideas have got nothing to do with that and you've gone off on a bit of a tangent so I would say the main thing is organizing their thoughts and ideas and kind of sifting through how much is too much what you're going to use and how much you're going to include in that book to make it relevant.

Organising your time is always going to be tricky and finding that dedication which is why having a mentor is a good idea because they can keep you accountable give you a little bit of a kick up the derriere if you really fall off the wagon or if you just need a little bit of inspiration or a bit of you know kind of g-ing up and and a bit of moral support really or if you get stuck with the technicalities of writing so I would say it's actually the organization and committing to that process and getting started you know I think it was Stephen King who said um the hardest part about writing a book is right before you start and I thought that's's fairly valid, actually, to be fair. Yeah, because it is.
I remember, you know, from a background on this, guys, I didn't know Karen before I started my book, creating my book. It was quite well afterwards that I met Karen.
So she didn't help me with my book. But I did start with actually just just reading uh well I tried I did the um dictating it um which for me did not work because I talk and I go off on random things and everything else and you know I think it does have its place but for me it just wasn't the format that worked trying to then sift through that and actually get anything tangible out of it and when I did go to somebody to get support because I was like I I don't think this is very good and I think that's the thing is that that was my biggest concern and that's why I ended up getting support um because I felt like I wanted to do it justice and I didn't feel like what I had created at that time was was doing it, was doing me justice.
And there is absolutely, definitely that propensity to want to just put everything you've got in your brain out onto a page, which is kind of what I did the first time. And, you know, the feedback was quite fairly, you know, like this isn't readable.
Like there's a lot of information in here. But's a little bit yeah but true um but you know it wasn't they said it's a bit like you know when you're um you're you're into different theories and people say to you oh well season two is a bit rubbish but season three is really good and you're like but you know that's like 15 hours worth of watching to to get to a good season and it's the same with a book you don't want people who are trying to learn from you to have to kind of sit through and put up with um to pick out that the bits of information it needs to be there and it needs to be easily accessible doesn't it absolutely they need the money shots don't they really as you say they don't want to rifle through your ramblings as interesting as they may be over a glass of wine you know if someone picks up a business book they

want they want to take action don't they they want to get the information they want to be able to put

it into practice and they want to see the results and maybe then think actually i need more help and

come into your world even further which is the ideal scenario um but yeah it's there's there's

a real skill to writing a good business book and that it comes down a lot to the structure how you structure your thoughts and ideas and then how you relay them um to your audience and one of the things I talk about a lot before we even start writing the book is what are your goals and objectives for this book it's the same as anything in business isn't it if you don't know what you're hoping to achieve from the book it's like getting in the car without the sat nav on you're not going to go where you think you're going to go if you've got no idea of where you're going um and also knowing your audience like who's it for who are you trying to help i know when i first started out in business a few years ago now i thought oh look my customer is i mean i don't know how many times you've probably heard this my customer is everybody and my mentor at the time went no blooming well isn't you know because you're never gonna you know and I thought well I could help everyone you know you need to niche down don't you to get that message on point because otherwise you're not going to please all of the people all of the time so it's important to know what your niche is what you're trying to relay what you're trying to achieve what you want your reader to achieve what your niche is, what you're trying to relay, what you're trying to achieve, what you want your reader to achieve, who your reader is. And then that's when you can start to make a cohesive plan.
But again, that also comes into finding your writing voice. If you're trying to please all of the people all of the time, your voice is going to be so confused in simple terms.
Like you can't write a children's book that is also an adult's book that is also suitable for teenagers that is also suitable for old ladies in a nursing home it just doesn't work so you know slightly ridiculous analogy but you need to know who it is you're trying and then you'll get your voice right then you'll get your tone right then you'll get the pace right and then you can create a plan that actually does what it says on the tin rather than shoot off on various tangents which we all have a tendency to do at times we do we do and that's the thing is i think sometimes people say to me because i speak to people over you know like where's your business plan and they're like oh it's in my head and i'm like it can't be that good and that's the thing is it's like you think, you know what, I've been surrounded by these people for years and I really know them, even just writing it down, the process of writing it down and consolidating that is really beneficial. Like there is too much time wrapped up in a book to kind of wing it.
You don't want to be winging particularly those foundations because that's the starting point and

you don't want to as you say end up with something which you're all over the place the language you use is all over the place you're not really appealing to anybody it needs to be dialed in so that it's an effective use of your time isn't it yeah and also it's your calling card it's your voice in your absence so the last thing you want to do is to put out a book that people go oh i thought she was a bit better than that you know you want that book to be as good as it can be and people to put it to be a good reflection of your professionalism your expertise your knowledge and like you said it takes a lot of time and a whole lot of effort why are you going to put all of that into something that's a bit meh you know you want something that really hits the spot so the planning and and the and the kind of organizing and and the getting it all structured properly maybe it's a little bit tedious some of us you know want to get straight in but it's worth it i'm guilty of that sometimes but it's it's worth its weight and goal to get that structure And actually, if you get the structure right, it's a whole lot easier to write it because then you've got chapters, subheadings. You know, like some people come to me and say, oh, I'm so overwhelmed.
I'm going to write this book and it's got to be 30 to 40,000 words. Where the heck am I going to start? So I say, well, with time, you're writing speed.
So, you know, I don't know, you can write you can write a thousand words and hours so now you know that's 30 hours of writing so now we'll create our plan now we've created our goals objectives who we're helping we then say right okay how are we going to help those people let's create a chapter plan so say we've got now 10 chapters so already I've broken that 30,000 words down into 10 lots of 3,000 words, which is suddenly a whole lot more achievable. And if you then break that chapter down into, say, five or six subheadings, we're talking, what, like 500 words per subheading, and then it suddenly becomes like, actually, yeah, I've got this, this is all right.
Well, then actually it switches, doesn't it? it yeah it then switches to how am I going to say that in such a short period of time

and that's that's the struggle that I had and I remember being over faced because there's

different publishing isn't it that the words seem to be it kind of that when you're getting support

with it and everything people talk around it needs to be this sort of length of book

and then from there I was like well that's a lot of words and then as you said we then broke it down into chapters and I was like well that's a little bit more manageable and then it was like actually the subheading stuff and I was like I can't and I was there going well this one's probably shorter so I could probably borrow a bit from here and you know cutting it down and keeping within the word count was was then my challenge with it

um which is it's so strange to have to afflict it's like oh can I not just be happy at some point because you're gonna go from oh that's overwhelming so oh gosh I don't know how I'm going to do it in that in that level of restriction um which is really interesting as far as writing a book who when do you think's the best time as far as like your business and your expertise like people think i'll i'll do it when i know enough and it's like but but when's enough when when would you recommend for somebody to to take the plunge on it i mean i've spoken to people at length obviously about this and loads of people said well i can't i can't write a book yet because i i don't know it all and i haven't finished it i said, what on earth would be the point of writing it when you've finished? We're writing this as a lead magnet. You won't leave it by the time you've finished.
So I definitely think, you know, it's kind of that analogy, I'm going to wait until I've got enough money before I have children. You'll be about 95 before that moment comes.
So, you know, you can't wait too long. You know, you don't need to know everything.
It's like when you create an online course, isn't it? You don't need to know it all. You don't need to.
Sometimes the course evolves as, I mean, obviously the book's got to be out there, but that will evolve as you go through your journey on that course. And the book's the same, really.
There's nothing to say you can't write a book quite early on in your journey and then then a few years later, write another book that is the sequel to that book that fills in the gaps and gives people more information. So, I mean, I don't think I would start a business and think I'm going to write a book at the same time.
I would question whether that's sane, because that would be a lot to take on. But I certainly think once you've been in business a couple couple of years and you feel confident enough in your subject matter that you've got something to share and you feel confident enough in your knowledge and your expertise you know who your audience are you've got a proven method of teaching what you're teaching then I don't think you know there's any real time limit on it but yeah I think you need to have a little bit of grounding before you start simply because as well when you start your own business there's so much to do you certainly haven't got time to write a book as well um but yeah don't but certainly don't wait till the end because it's you know if you waited until you're absolutely ready you could be waiting forever you know sometimes you've got to and you can't use it then you can't use it as a resource if you've you like oh I've made it now I'm going to write the book and it's like but then I don't need the book so why are you writing it and I think that's the thing to to kind of bear in mind with it also as you said in the beginning it is a lot to take on it's also quite a slow burner isn't it it's not gonna you know it's not like chapter one boom I've got thousands of clients um you know it's got you've got to go through the process of writing the whole thing getting it published during a launch it's better to launch it to an audience if you're going to go best seller status and then obviously you've got on top of that is who is the audience and if you can work with people for a period of time even if you aren't selling you know there's obviously business coaches write books but there's also people who they run their own business within their level of expertise.
So they're selling their expertise to an audience of people. And even then understanding who those people are, how best to communicate with them when they're when you're priming them up to be a buyer, rather than than just educating them on a subject.
You know, it makes sense to wait until you feel you've got that understanding before you go off and do that yeah and lots of people will write a business book that backs up a course that they've got for example i mean that's a great way to tackle it if you've got um you know uh chrissy up here she wrote market oh there market like a pop star that's a great book and that's that basically is what she teaches in her marketing strategy it's it's much her 10-step process that she teaches to her clients. So for those clients who maybe haven't got the budget to work with her directly or maybe aren't at that stage for a mentor just yet, well, they can take the book and have a kind of a do-it-yourself approach.
But it's everything that she teaches but in the book. So if you're already teaching a course or you're already sharing that knowledge in a different way or maybe you're coaching or mentoring or or something along those lines then that's a perfect opportunity to put it into a book um and then that's kind of a low ticket way that people can come in into the world and these days you know with qr codes and websites and all of that kind of thing you you can put all of your social links in the book.
You can direct them to landing pages. You can direct them to mailing lists.
Lots of I know Zoe and Ryan here. I've got lots of people behind me.
They've got like tasks that people can do and then they've got downloadable resources that they can get from the book. So there's it's a really great way to get people into your world but it's not it's not maybe as confrontational as some selling can be it's quite quite a nice gentle way of of people coming into your into your world that way so it's very much them opting in isn't it i mean that's the thing is good minds oh there you go my book um is um you know that's got chapters got activities at the end of each chapter and so the plus point of that is you can have it on someone like Amazon where they will sell it they I can never work out even the commission side of stuff I just get sent money each month which seems to vary greatly and I'm always very confused but Amazon you know it's a great way to to obviously get your name out there and for people to be as a touch point but then from there people are then um able to to download and opt in so that you know if you have a gated resource they put their email address in in order for the information to be sent or in order to access the information then straight away you can have it set up that it drops into your inbox that this person has signed up for these resources that's what i get um you know that's a great opportunity then you can reach out you can strike up conversations with these people you actually have them and there's a lead whereas otherwise you know if they're but they're sold by a third party like amazon you're never going to know actually who purchased them and so having something like that built in it adds value yeah it does bring them more into your world and it's just so an opt-in like this I cannot control who who does that um you know some people will buy the book and they don't do that um some people will do that and you know that they're then the more motivated leads anyway um but it is a really really great opportunity for you to and I suppose with QR codes codes you you only have to add the qr code and you can edit that qr code with the most recent up-to-date stuff at any point can't you you don't even have to worry about it getting old no no and um qr codes i found uh recently i don't know if you probably know this but if you create them in canva they don't expire oh really yeah little thing i picked up along the way because i kept thinking oh this is a bit of a pain you can create them on you know qr free qr reader or whatever is online there's a lot and there are loads of sites like that but then they do expire which i didn't realize to start with but yeah if you create them in canva they they don't expire which is a very useful little trick how did we ever cope without canva you know what though i have to say of all the things it's like that's one of the things that people my clients sign up to pretty much straight away the newbies brilliant it's so useful and if you think what we used to do flapping around with adobe and then now you've got all this stuff and you use do you use camber for the books but most of those book covers behind me have been done on camber um and i mean the thing i would say you your book cover does have to be good if you create a um what's the word kind of unprofessional bit homegrown looking book cover it will notice and it will devalue your book so you do need a little bit of experience to make sure that it looks how it should look but with a bit of practice you can create something pretty professional yeah and what I always advise my clients to do I mean I do I do help clients with their book covers if they want to some some are a bit adventurous but for those who find that I'm happy to help them with that.
But what I do say is go online and look at books in your genre, what you like, what you don't like. And also, you know, it's great to be a little bit different, but if you create a cover that's not in line with that genre, people will overlook it.
So, you know, people who read Chiclet, for example, they're expecting something from a cover. They usually like pastel colours and there's usually kind of a bit of a romantic kind of feel to it.
People who buy business books, they want the title to say exactly what it says on the team. They want, you know, and particularly nowadays with SEO and all of that, you don't want some convoluted title that takes Einstein to work out what you actually mean.
Don't try and be too clever. Just say what you're doing.
Yeah, you want people to find you and you want people to instantly go, yeah, that's the book for me. You know, if your title speaks to your readers' pains and challenges, that's the book they're going to pick up, aren't they? um yeah no and you know there is a tendency to some some people i've spoken want to put their

their own readers pains and challenges that's the book they're going to pick up aren't they um yeah no and you know there is a tendency to some some people I've spoken want to put their their um their picture on the front cover which is lovely but unless it's a memoir I would probably say don't because the problem with that is if you're not a well-known face people will go I don't know that person is it's probably not relevant to me so what you're trying to do is create that kind of whole aura of yeah this is the book for me it speaks to its audience and they're likely to and the great thing about business book covers they're such fun to do but they're so kind of simple nowadays and I love that about them they are basically the title and it's a lot of messing around with cool fonts and you know yeah you know but it's it's very doable but it takes practice and you do need to do your research and look at what what other books in your genre are doing you don't you don't want to be the um you know the the kind of the awkward looking book in it stand up for all the wrong reasons yeah and then because with my my had my book done I worked with somebody to to and they did like a package and we actually I wasn't happy with what they were creating and I got a designer to do it and and actually the the title the book title and the fonts and everything else it was for book. And then I then used that in my business branding.
And so I updated my business branding to relate to that. And for me, it was really important.
And when I looked at what they had created, it was probably enough. But it wasn't my, it wasn't, it ticked a box.
It was a cover, but it just wasn't, I didn't love it. It wants to look just to look just so i think you know that's that's um i know chrissy in particular her market like a pop star that's all branded with her colors which she was she was quite keen to do which is great um but you know it's an individual thing but there are certain norms and it's wise to follow them if you if you want to get the best from your book certainly i would say a good blurb a blurb is hard to write that's a little bit on the back which says what's in the book um and it's a few paragraphs that tells you in a kind of nutshell what the book's about they can be harder to write than the whole book because you've got to get that you know yeah yeah you've got to get that information yeah exactly but a good blurb that's that's you know people will look at the cover go oh yeah that looks interesting turn it over look at the blurb and go yes that's exactly the book for me so that's that's really what you're you're trying to get so it is a bit of a there's a lot to think about it it's a bit of a mind-fold isn't it yeah and you know that that's where having somebody to help you really comes in I mean to be honest I've been writing myself for 11 books for 11 years I've written 16 books now and um I can't even tell you if we if we were going to talk about the mistakes I made this would be this episode would be too long let's it that way.
Is it long enough for a book? Could you write a book about the mistakes you made writing a book? A couple of books. I would say a couple of books.
But, I mean, looking back now, I'm quite pleased because I learned so much. And I can really give good information and helpful knowledge and say, do not do that.
From my experience, that's a no-no. But this really worked for me.
So, you know know I've got to try and think of it at the time there was a lot of tears of frustration but it's it's taught me a lot but it is a minefield there's a lot of unscrupulous people out there you really have to do your research it can be a bit of a closed shop nobody really wants to tell you there's an awful lot of experts who will tell you stuff that simply isn't true

um you know it's it's quite difficult and when you start in it it's a world that you really don't know anything about it's really tricky and even if you google it goodness me you get so much conflicting information it's really hard to sort out the you know the the good stuff. So it is and it is quite daunting.
I think, you know, don't feel bad if you if you think, goodness me, this is overwhelming because it really is. It really is.
It's taken me 11 years, I think. And I finally feel in a place where, yeah, I'm quite confident.
I know what I'm doing. But even then, sometimes something will get thrown up with a book that I'm doing.
I think, god I didn't see that coming you know I've been doing this a long time so it is a bit of a minefield but um but it's worth it's worth pursuing so what would you say are the the main things to look out for if you are looking at working with somebody what would you recommend people do their due diligence around yeah I mean like with anything do with anything, do your research and look at the reviews, look at the testimonials. If they, you know, hopefully they should have some testimonials.
And certainly, I mean, I was looking at working with someone a little while ago and my friend said, well, you know, reach out to someone who's left a review. And I was like, oh, should I? Why not? You know, if if that person is honourable if that person is bona fide and he and he's you know works with integrity they won't mind you reaching out to pray you know past clients and say what was it like to work with that person don't be afraid to ask those questions and to really think about who you're working with and the other the other thing is it's like any kind of mentor not everyone will be right for you you know certain mentors and publishers will have expertise in different areas some mentors will only work with specific genres some publishers might only publish certain types of books some people you know you'll kind of have a conversation with and you'll think we just don't gel.
Other people you might talk with and you think, yeah, do you know what? I get on really great with this person. So I think it's just go with your gut, but do your due diligence.
And if if you kind of feel if at any point your gut's telling you this feels a bit weird, then then trust it. Because if they're overly, overly pricey, there's there's a lot of people out there and also if they're overly cheap you know there's some people have said to me oh i've worked with this publisher and they they were doing all of this for 200 and i'm like really that's that's why you didn't because it's just not possible you know if the job is going to be done well it's a lot of hours of work you know the editing takes a long time getting the product you know we've talked about that a lot today you know getting the cover right getting the formatting right getting you know it's a lot of hours of work so you know kind of think about that it's not going to be super cheap but it also shouldn't mean you have to remortgage your house either that's a great problem if know if they want to get in touch with you if they want to find out more or just you know pick your brains or sense check anything where's the best place to find you oh well thank you for that I mean I am always happy to help but can I just say that whether we work together or not I I struggled so hard to find information and I have to say I almost gave up on book nine I'd got to nine books and I almost thought I can't do this anymore met someone who was amazing she gave me so much help and support and kind of reignited my fire and put a little bit of my faith back into the whole process so I tried to be the person I needed when I started out so don't feel like you can't reach out if you think I've got a load of questions I don't know if I'm ready for a mentor yet or whatever it's fine I'm always happy to help because I feel that's important um and Karen at mabelandstanleypublishing.com that's the best way to get hold of me just drop me an email um and I'm more than happy to have a call or a chat and i'll answer as many questions as

is humanly possible well thank you karen so i'll put those in the show notes for people so that

they can they can find you um but yeah thank you so much for your time it's really really nice to

chat with you and get all that information thank you thank you thank you thank you that's it for

me guys this week i look forward to speaking to you again on a solo

episode next week bye for now