Why Are Some Women So Mean?

Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to the UCAM podcast. I'm here today with Mandy Reese and she's going to introduce herself in just a moment.

Speaker 1 We're going to be talking about female archetypes and why women are so mean to each other. And so Mandy, over to you.
Please share with us who you are.

Speaker 2 Thank you very much, Sarah. So I'm Mandy Rees and I'm a feminine archetype strategist.

Speaker 2 What that means is that I work with women either individually or in group spaces, helping them identify and really connect with inner feminine archetypes, which is something that we all have.

Speaker 2 So we all have an inner masculine and an inner feminine, but many, many women are operating from their masculine. We're not valuing or understanding our female gifts.

Speaker 2 And that's where we're most authentic. That's where our true success comes from.
So I help women to really connect with their feminine powers.

Speaker 1 With such a male-dominated environment that some industries can be, you know, it is actually really helpful to kind of place your strengths, isn't it, rather than try and mimic the masculine.

Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely, because when we start to try to be like men, even though we have an inner masculine and feminine balance, in most women, not all of us, our feminine is our true authentic self.

Speaker 2 So when we're operating from that male space, we're just copying other people or we're following learned behaviours, things that we've seen on television, teachers we had at school, and the male role models within our businesses.

Speaker 2 So, most of us who work in corporates, it's still a very male-dominated environment. And that means that women are doing it inauthentically.

Speaker 2 So, we can lead to things like feeling anxious, feeling stressed, we burn out, we don't set boundaries. That kind of good girl really kicks in because we want to prove ourselves to everybody.

Speaker 2 And it's just exhausting. And we're not really happy to be operating from a place that isn't who we really are.

Speaker 1 That makes a lot of sense. So, on that note, so you know, I'm talking about why are we so mean? Why are we so mean? How does this happen?

Speaker 2 Gosh, I wish. Well, I'd love to have the answer

Speaker 3 very rich, I think, if I had the answer to that. I think there's various reasons.

Speaker 2 I think the biggest reason is that we just are unaware of it because we are living in a male-dominated society.

Speaker 2 And this isn't about bashing the patriarchy because, you know, we've spoken about about before. It's not the men, necessarily the men who are leading now.

Speaker 2 It's just a consequence of the last 2,000 years when the West has been very male-dominated. So we just learn at school to compete with each other.

Speaker 2 Girls.

Speaker 2 quite frankly bitch about each other, don't they? The way we look, the things we do, who got the boyfriend, who didn't, who was successful at school.

Speaker 2 I think lots of our female role models to be successful in their time had to be very aggressive, very masculine.

Speaker 2 If you look at things like I used to watch Dallas and Dynasty in the 80s, when, you know, Alexis and Crystal would fight in their shoulder pads. You know, women

Speaker 2 attacked each other on TV.

Speaker 2 So we saw this very competitive environment. There are always films, weren't they? You know, again, you show my age in Grange Hill.
There would be girls fighting with each other, attacking each other.

Speaker 2 So we just take this on subliminally that if I'm going going to be successful, it has to be at the expense of her. It can't be alongside her.

Speaker 2 So one, there's that whole cultural piece, kind of we just absorb it. We just think it's normalized.

Speaker 2 And until someone says to us, it doesn't have to be that way, or actually, do you want it to be that way? We don't realize.

Speaker 2 But then there's also individual learning. So, you know, my mom isn't a woman's woman.
She doesn't have female friendship. She doesn't really respect or honor other women.

Speaker 2 So, I didn't grow up in an environment where I saw women dropping by the house and my mum confiding in them and having conversations.

Speaker 2 I think that's my individual experience, but also as a society, we've lost that local community, haven't they? Where front doors are open and women would just drop in. Yeah,

Speaker 2 and you know, where my nanny and granddad lived,

Speaker 2 they knew all their neighbours, and lady from over the road would drop by, Doris from around the road would drop by.

Speaker 2 So, women just saw other women as support networks in friendship and we've lost that.

Speaker 2 So there's lots of different reasons why we're mean to each other. But my personal view is the biggest one is it's just, it's self-preservation, really.

Speaker 2 If I'm, if I'm not mean to you, you might be mean to me. Right.
And that's why we find it really hard to let other women in to our lives. And there's a lot of mistrust.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, I was like a self-preservation for self-defense, isn't it?

Speaker 2 It's like, uh, yeah, so

Speaker 1 you've got your guard up rather than kind of opening yourself up for that experience, you're straight away putting that up so that it never happens in the first place.

Speaker 1 You're not positioning yourself as weaker or allowing someone to do that,

Speaker 2 yeah. And you might have actually had an experience as a teenager where other girls were really horrible to you, and we all have

Speaker 1 kids are mean,

Speaker 3 They are.

Speaker 2 I was, I have a kind of a workshop called Ditch the Bitch, which is like a mindfulness kind of, I guess, a kind of healing workshop where I ask people to share experiences they've had around this.

Speaker 2 And I was at a networking event a few weeks ago.

Speaker 2 There were 15 of us in the room, and every single one of us, just in the blink of an eye, could recall a time when another woman or girl had been mean to us.

Speaker 2 So this is a real thing thing that's really happening. And you kind of stack up those memories, don't you?

Speaker 2 If more people, more women are unpleasant to you than kind, then in your mindset, okay, women are, I don't trust women, they're they're to be feared.

Speaker 2 And you go back to those memories, it's harder to recall the good experiences.

Speaker 2 So, again, we take that with us into adulthood,

Speaker 2 we take that into us with being mums as well.

Speaker 2 So, we have a real, I guess, duty to our children to help them realise that, you know, because my daughters have both been bullied by other girls, but I work really hard now to say to them, that's just that individual girl.

Speaker 2 That's not womanhood. Yeah.
That's not all women that are like that. That's the individual woman.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 2 we know that the bully's got a load of stuff going on with her.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I think that's the thing is.

Speaker 3 People are bullies for a reason. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I think that's that's where I like to kind of come from with everything is to kind of explain away, well, you know, you come from almost a place of empathy empathy with it that like what is happening to that person my daughter's experienced girl who's she's just mean i wouldn't go as far as as bullying but she is she struggles to be nice to anyone um and so my daughter you know they're all become in the firing line for it but it's very interesting because other parents have been like actually this kind of creates a bit of a culture so that person's being mean that then it kind of opens up the floodgates for other people to think well I think this and although this is mean she's saying worse So, and I think that's where you can kind of create a culture of people being quite harsh to each other, particularly girls,

Speaker 1 because you have that kind of precedent already set. You've got a benchmark of, well, I'm not as bad as that.

Speaker 1 And then that's kind of where it goes, isn't it?

Speaker 2 Yes, and also it's sometimes safer to tuck yourself under the wings of the bully than to be the one that stands up against her.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 2 you learn that behavior that actually to keep myself safe, I'm just going to tuck under the bully's wings.

Speaker 2 It takes a courage as a young girl and a woman to stand up to the bully because you become her target then. Yeah.
Which is why, as a parent or as another woman, if you

Speaker 2 see someone standing up against the bully, you've really got to put your big girl pants on and ally with her,

Speaker 2 which I know is difficult.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then then hope that somebody is supporting the girl that's a woman that's being the bully, for want of a better word, so that she can resolve her issues as well.

Speaker 2 And as you say, look at that with it from a place of empathy and compassion.

Speaker 2 It doesn't mean you have to be her best friend and you'll probably never be her best friend or she'll be anywhere within your friendship circle, but

Speaker 2 you don't want to take her down either because she's got some stuff going on that's causing her to have to put herself in that position of power.

Speaker 2 Often I think at school, you're probably not so empowered at home that your position of power is in school. Yeah, um, and that's where you can be the queen of the roost at that point.

Speaker 2 But it's really hard to stand up against someone who's being unkind, yeah.

Speaker 2 But it will make you a really good human, yeah, if you do that. And we women need more of us to be doing that.

Speaker 3 Yeah, sorry, my cat's doing that.

Speaker 1 I have to keep kicking the dog because he keeps on doing little snores.

Speaker 3 Be quiet.

Speaker 2 He's a boy cat as well, but he's very much allied with the womanhood in this house.

Speaker 3 Bless him.

Speaker 1 That's good. To be fair, he's outnumbered, isn't he?

Speaker 1 So is that what you would suggest then? You know, if you are in that situation where somebody is being mean,

Speaker 1 not necessarily bullying in a work environment, but...

Speaker 1 they're mean. Is it to stand up against them? How can we change this? What can we do?

Speaker 2 i think it's really hard because it depends where you are so the me that i am now would have the confidence to have a conversation with that woman the me 20 years ago working as a lawyer when i was very much in my masculine yeah would have just wanted to fight with that woman literally um

Speaker 2 you know I would have wanted to, I would have gone into competition mode.

Speaker 2 I would have gone into, well, you're not going to beat me kind of mode.

Speaker 2 So I think, first of all, we have a duty to ourselves to

Speaker 2 really ground ourselves in who we are and where we're coming from.

Speaker 2 You know, not all of us are able to do that or have had the time to do that. And we might be dealing with that situation with a difficult woman.

Speaker 2 I would advocate...

Speaker 2 gathering your tribe around you, so gathering your women around you to counsel you and to have conversations with to help you get the confidence you need to have that conversation with that person.

Speaker 2 I think that's the best sort of call. You know, then it's going to HR, isn't it? If it's within an organisation, but often I found extending a hand of compassion to that woman,

Speaker 2 they do break, the barriers do come down because she's put a wall of protection up around her. And I know this because that's what I...

Speaker 2 this this was kind of how i used to operate don't let people in just in case they hurt me yeah

Speaker 2 Be strong and tough because if I show that I'm vulnerable people will think I'm not so good at my job.

Speaker 2 You know, very much I'm going to stay in my masculine because all the successful people in this business above me are men. So I've got to do it like they do it.

Speaker 2 And this is not saying all men are very aggressive, but they tend to be more kind of down that strategic direct route than women.

Speaker 2 Ask her out for a coffee,

Speaker 2 connect with her.

Speaker 2 How does she have family? What are her drivers? What are her motivators?

Speaker 2 Try and start a proper flow of conversation, not to become friends with her, but to become a real, true colleague with her. So you can understand what's going on in her life a little bit.

Speaker 2 So you know where she's coming from. And then try and take her aggression and turn it into a place of understanding so that she knows that she's okay to be vulnerable.

Speaker 2 In my business, I've come to realize that the greatest transformations happen when people just let go a little bit and say, do you know what? Actually, I'm not doing as well as I look.

Speaker 2 This is much harder than I thought it would be. Oh, gosh, someone's actually, you know, when you are, someone asks you if you're okay and you're not, and you just burst into tears.

Speaker 2 It's a bit like that.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So it's going to a woman who's being really mean and just kind of saying, what's going on? Are you all right? Yeah. A lot of the time they're just not all right.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 They're just putting on a brave face and it's coming across as guarded. Yeah, because they're trying to hold it together.

Speaker 2 When you are trying to hold it together, you are more detached.

Speaker 1 Because if you aren't detached, then you are going to put yourself in that position where you know you'll burst into tears or something else which you know there is that feeling of I can't do that I need to to look on it and I need to look like I know what I'm doing

Speaker 2 yeah and often you have a reputation to uphold don't you because you've created this persona of being tough in control no compromise you know, always in the office when you need to be, prioritising work.

Speaker 2 You might be completely falling apart inside, burning out, but the pressure to maintain this external image that you've created is huge.

Speaker 1 And I think we have got that pressure.

Speaker 3 You can't drop your barriers.

Speaker 1 No, we have got that pressure as women as well.

Speaker 2 We do feel like we have to prove ourselves that bit more.

Speaker 1 And particularly when you like step into phases of motherhood and things like that, people are looking for you to not,

Speaker 1 you know, to not have it together and not being able to cope. And so you feel that pressure even more.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and motherhood's a really interesting time as well because women do judge judge each other in motherhood as well.

Speaker 3 Don't they, Judge? That's actually when we really,

Speaker 2 yeah, totally. I mean,

Speaker 2 but

Speaker 2 again,

Speaker 2 you know, I've run mother circles and groups for mums and I used to do yoga classes.

Speaker 2 And I've had postnatal depression, so I know how hard it is. It was the mum who turned up every week, bang on time, with her makeup on, with her baby looking perfect that I worried about most.

Speaker 2 The mum that came up half an hour through the class, completely frazzled with pukle down her shoulder, she's probably doing fine because she's just coming as her true self.

Speaker 2 It's like, this is who I am. Yeah, take me.
Yeah, this is this is what my life looks like right now.

Speaker 2 Whereas because I knew that's what I did with post-natal depression, I covered it up by still looking, presenting this image to the world externally.

Speaker 2 So it's the mum that looks most put together that is often the one that's struggling the most. But again, she's caught in that trap of, I need everyone to think that I'm doing okay.

Speaker 2 I can't let my barriers down, I can't be open and vulnerable.

Speaker 2 But as soon as you she softens a little bit and you give her the opportunity to say what it's really, or another mum says, This is really hard, isn't it?

Speaker 2 And then she'll go, Oh gosh, yes, it is really hard, isn't it? And that's when it really changes, that's when it really shifted.

Speaker 2 And that's that's why we need women to start being kinder to each other so that we can do that.

Speaker 1 And a bit more honest, isn't it? As well, it's having those conversations, it's having honest conversations over this is this is tricky, I'm struggling with this.

Speaker 1 Um, acknowledging so that people don't feel alone.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but it all goes back round to

Speaker 2 we all feel like we're competing with each other for the top space. There's loads of top spaces, though.

Speaker 2 There's plenty of spaces.

Speaker 3 You know what?

Speaker 1 Before I had children, I used to think that I used to say to people, I'd be like, Oh, you know, you've got a perfectly normal person and give them a horse, and they'll turn crazy and all competitive.

Speaker 1 And then I had children, and I was like, It's the same here, too.

Speaker 1 And it's like, actually, it's anytime that you've got something that you really care about and you pride yourself in being good at or you pride yourself in trying your hardest or you've got, you see value in being your best that you start this competitive.

Speaker 1 I mean, like, I remember the conversations over breastfeeding and it was just, and even now I see it on social media where people are like, I just exclusively fed, you know, breastfed until they know that they were like, I don't know, 20.

Speaker 1 And you're like, how is that relevant to this conversation?

Speaker 1 But they feel the the need to,

Speaker 1 that was their identity. That was, and you know, and it is something to be proud of to be able to do something like that.
But it's, it's amazing how enforced and put upon other people it is.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because it's amazing, because it's how hurtful that is to a woman who really wanted to breastfeed and couldn't.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, it's being aware that we all have our own experiences and our own journeys. And also, I think a lot of us women were kind of sold the you can have everything myth

Speaker 2 which is really I'm personally think you can have your version of everything but that's not everything

Speaker 2 because everything is going to kill you quite frankly because we still live in a society where women if you have children are the primary caregiver most of the time

Speaker 2 So we're still trying to do our job, but we've just got kids as well.

Speaker 1 We're trying to find that balance, aren't we? And

Speaker 1 the juggles, real, yeah. And actually, I had a couple of episodes ago, we had a Mandarin, and we were talking around you can have it all, but it's your all, it's your priorities.

Speaker 1 And actually, you can't necessarily have it all at the same time. Um, you know, sometimes things have to take a priority, some stuff has to take a back seat.

Speaker 1 That's a conversation I have with people so often with their businesses. And it's like, I had a chat with somebody this week who's got a lot going on personally.

Speaker 1 And I was like, Do you need to have this business right now and it's like if you don't need to have this business right now

Speaker 1 just pause it just just shelve it and focus on what's actually important and and that's the thing is is it's constantly balancing reassessing rejuggling um where your priorities are isn't it

Speaker 2 Yeah, and that's why working with archetypes can be really helpful because different archetypes step in at different times.

Speaker 2 But if you're not in touch with, say, for example, that person may have needed to be more in touch with their mother archetype, but to the extent that they themselves needed mothering, rather than being driven by perhaps, you know, their queen archetype, which is all about driving forward and success, knowing when to pull back, knowing that there is a time to step forward.

Speaker 2 But also, women are we're much harder on ourselves than men are as well. We are unable to see how successful we are and celebrate our successes in the same way as men do.

Speaker 2 You know, we

Speaker 2 like there's a study, isn't there, that, you know, if there's a promotion coming up, women will say, well, I've got to be able to do 90% of this job before I can apply for the promotion.

Speaker 2 And men will go, well, I'm doing about 50% of it, so it's fine. You know, we just, we don't, we're not, we don't have that inner confidence.

Speaker 2 which I think comes from the fact that we've spent lots of our lives navigating other women, knocking us down or attacking us. Or as soon as we become successful, you get bitched about.

Speaker 2 So we learn that success doesn't feel safe.

Speaker 2 so we pull back and we hide you know i know i've i've changed the clothes i've worn to certain places because i think if i wear that sparkly dress somebody's going to say something oh i'm not going to say that i won this because i think i'm a big head yeah because i will have worn a sparkly dress probably to a party when i was seven and some friend said something horrible or you know i won a race on sports day and i got slagged off about it

Speaker 2 so you learn those things where as boys it's like yeah go on mate you did this that's brilliant you know we might have a bit bit of a fight, but we're best friends again the next day.

Speaker 2 But we take that lesson into grown-up womanhood and into our businesses.

Speaker 2 So instead of having to be able to say, do you know what, actually, I just need to part my business for three or six months because I have so much going on.

Speaker 2 This good girl in us, this need to prove ourselves, doesn't allow us to do that, which goes back to, I think, the fact that...

Speaker 2 we feel we feel threatened by other women and we feel attacked and what will they say what will so-and-so down the road say if i you know she hears my business is closed or I've suspended it?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's it's such a shame, and there is that, isn't there?

Speaker 1 And I know that when I was setting up my business, and I speak to clients all the time when they're setting up theirs, and they're like, Oh, yeah, you know, it's that feeling of, oh, someone's someone's going to ask me how it's going.

Speaker 1 And it's like,

Speaker 1 how is your little business? You know, it's even the way that the language they use, and it's like, oh, bless her, she'll be getting a job before you know it.

Speaker 1 And you know, you do have that, you have that awareness.

Speaker 1 Everyone talks to me when we talk about posting on social media, they have those few friends who they know are sat there in the sidelines waiting for them to fail and that's a horrible place to be

Speaker 2 yeah and that's when again being strong enough to know

Speaker 2 who the people are in who the people you want in your circle are so we have a thing in our family where we talk about circle of trust

Speaker 1 we do that because we do it from um because it was meet the fuckers wasn't it you know when they talked about our family circle.

Speaker 1 So we do, we talk about that because our youngest, if you are, if you cross him, you're outside that circle. You're very much outside that circle.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So we have it.

Speaker 2 So like some of the girls will go, you know, I'm very much, wow, she's kind of lingering on the edge of my circle. And then I like another person like, that person's never coming in my circle.

Speaker 2 It's knowing that actually there's friends and there's friends. And you've just got to not be what you've just got to think that actually, if you're not a friend, then

Speaker 2 you can say what you want about me on social media and stalk me. I'm just not going to let it bother me, which I know again is a

Speaker 1 we do, we do take on external feedback more as women than I think guys do. I think sometimes they're oblivious to it as well.
I think that helps is they don't pick up the sentiment behind some of the

Speaker 1 tones and the comments, whereas we're that much more astute to it, aren't we?

Speaker 2 Yeah, because we're much more intuitive. So we just know.
You know, sometimes someone can write a comment that seems all right. And you're just like, I know, but that's a pointed barb at me.

Speaker 3 Just tell.

Speaker 2 But also, there's the other times as well when we're hypersensitive and we just have to check sometimes, is this me?

Speaker 2 Actually, is this my stuff that I'm projecting onto this other woman or this comment? So we do have to be aware of that. But again, it's that learned behavior.

Speaker 2 I had so many comments from girls at school.

Speaker 2 And as women you know when i was a lawyer you just think oh actually you know you know sarah and if you you and i just wouldn't have been able to have this conversation you know 15 years ago because i didn't really like women

Speaker 1 like yeah i'm not talking to you that's what you are

Speaker 1 yeah and so you know kind of

Speaker 3 i was either go on

Speaker 2 sorry i'll say i was either scared of them women or just wanted to compete with them or they kind of weren't in my radar, which is a real shame because i really lost i didn't didn't make the most of the girl friendships that i had but because i couldn't feel like i'd really let them into my circle of trust because i just didn't have that trust element so i know that i've kind of had relationships that i've let go of that actually probably could have been really strong friendships and that's something that I really regret.

Speaker 2 So with Grace and Neither, my daughters, I really say to them, look, you know, find the good ones and really hold on to them because they're so valuable and so important to take with you.

Speaker 1 And that kind of leads me really nicely actually on to my sort of last question on this, which was like, you know, if you're sat there thinking, you know what, yeah, I don't have those close friends, I'd love the idea of people dropping in and having that close relationship with people.

Speaker 2 How do people go about, what's your advice for them?

Speaker 1 How could they go about starting that?

Speaker 2 It's really, from my experience, it's a bit of a baptism of fire.

Speaker 2 You just have to take a leap of faith and say, do you know, I'm going to, if it's, for example in a business community find a really good networking group of women where i can just try it out

Speaker 2 you know whether it's on zoom to begin with just to see what the people are like yeah it's trying it out knowing that it's not your role to be liked by every woman and it's not every woman's role to like you either because it's just that's just how the world works also know you know get out of people pleasing don't be out there trying to make everybody like you just find the people that you genuinely connect with and that you feel safe with and that you trust.

Speaker 2 Also, look back on your friendship circle and think: actually, are there people I want to reconnect with that I've lost touch with?

Speaker 2 Be really brave and think, are there friends I just want to let go of?

Speaker 2 You know, if you've got women in your life, you're making you feel crap, then why are they in your life really?

Speaker 2 And I know that can be difficult because some of those women could be your family and it's not so easy just to ditch. No, no, that's quite hard.

Speaker 2 Um, but can you set some boundaries around there? Or, you know, you know, we both say this,

Speaker 2 get a coach, get a mentor, someone to help you work through these issues.

Speaker 2 Because the reasons that women are nasty to each other and the reasons we don't trust each other is because we've had past experiences.

Speaker 2 So it's being able to talk through those past experiences, be kind and forgiving to yourself, understanding why they happened, why you responded to them in that way, and find out.

Speaker 2 different ways of kind of rewriting that narrative or responding differently.

Speaker 2 And also a massive driver for me was my daughters you know i don't want my girls to have the view of women that i had historically i don't want them to think that the bitchy girl at school is reflective of every woman so that they spend the rest of their lives fearing being in a female environment because

Speaker 2 The world's so aggressive, isn't it, at the moment? It's really testosterone and fuelled with

Speaker 2 anger and envy.

Speaker 2 I want to inspire a whole generation of women who become the prime ministers and the presidents and the leaders that bring us the balance we really need.

Speaker 2 You know, I know this is kind of big picture, but I think women, we've got to step up because the world is pretty crappy right now.

Speaker 2 And if we're going to change, it has to start with us.

Speaker 2 So it's a really difficult process for me to go to go to a counselor, go to a therapist, talk about my relationship with my mum, with women, get it all out. But do you know what?

Speaker 2 I'm so much happier for it. And I'm a much better mum.
I'm a much better role model to the girls girls than I ever would have been before.

Speaker 2 It doesn't mean I like every woman out there.

Speaker 3 I mean I'd love to see that.

Speaker 3 No. I don't.

Speaker 2 I don't. But the thing is not every woman likes me, but at least I'm comfortable enough to know that that's okay.

Speaker 1 And that's that's the main thing, isn't it? I mean, and that goes for women and men, is we're not going to click with everyone.

Speaker 1 I mean, I've met, we've moved areas and I've met people and it's like, they just don't get me. I'm joking.
And they're like taking me seriously.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, this is so strange to, you know, you can be absolutely totally misunderstood with sort of flyaway comments because they just don't, they don't get you and that they're not your people.

Speaker 1 They're not on the same wavelength as you. And that can happen with guys as well as women.

Speaker 1 And so it's understanding, okay, you know, where are the people that get me that I can be myself with, who I don't have to watch myself so that I don't offend anyone.

Speaker 1 You know, you can just be yourself. And that's what you're seeking out.
That doesn't have to be a huge group of friends in that circle. It just has to be that support network that you need to

Speaker 1 help you, you know, in life, isn't it?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's kind of if you could have your perfect WhatsApp group that you would message them at three in the morning and they'd respond and help you, who do you want in that perfect WhatsApp group, isn't it?

Speaker 2 And it's not many people. No, because it'd get lost in a WhatsApp group, wouldn't it?

Speaker 1 All those responses.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's just

Speaker 2 the right people.

Speaker 2 And also, as women, we have to check with that

Speaker 2 i have to please everybody good girl thing that lots of us carry with us um you know be a bit of a rebel it's okay there will be people that love the rebel in you because that's the true you i always say to the women i work with who were you at kind of five six seven what's the essence of her

Speaker 2 that's who you that's who you are probably before everything's been heaped on top of you you know

Speaker 2 feel her, embody her and be her and know that she's safe and gather around her the circle of people that brings her out and make her feel safe and that she can be her real self with. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, because that's the real you.

Speaker 2 And those are the people.

Speaker 2 that you need and particularly if you're running a business as you know sarah is it's really hard running a business it's harder running a business as a woman and particularly if you're a mum and it's even harder if you're doing it and trying to be someone else at the same time That's just exhausting.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the best thing you can do is be yourself. Absolutely.
Mandy, thank you so much for your time. And if they want more information from you, if they want more Mandy in their life, what do they do?

Speaker 1 Where do they go?

Speaker 2 They can go to mandyreese.com is where you can find out about my coaching. And then I am theMandy Reese on Instagram and LinkedIn.

Speaker 3 So you can find me there.

Speaker 2 And I'd love to connect with anybody. Just send me a connection request or drop me a message.
It would be fabulous to just get in touch. Brilliant.

Speaker 1 Thank you very much, Mandy.

Speaker 3 Well, how lovely is she?

Speaker 1 I thoroughly enjoyed that, guys, and I hope you did too.

Speaker 1 If you enjoyed this episode and would like to hear more from the UCAM podcast, then please do subscribe and follow us so that we can keep you up to date with when the next episode hits.

Speaker 1 And if you wouldn't mind giving us a quick review, that really helps with the whole algorithm scenario and gets me in front of more people. Um, so more people enjoy what we share.

Speaker 1 So, that's it for this week, guys. Have a great rest of your week.

Speaker 3 Bye for now.