Textualism [TEASER]

know, there's that classic phrase that we're all realists now.

Well, I think we're all textualists now.

Hey, everyone, this is Leon from Fiasco and Prologue Projects.

On this premium episode of 5-4, Peter, Rhiannon, and Michael are talking about textualism, the legal theory that prioritizes the literal text of laws over what might have been the intended outcome of the legislation.

Proponents of textualism, like Justice Antonin Scalia, have argued that it prevents judges' personal opinions from coloring their decisions.

We're governed by the laws that Congress enacts, not by the unexpressed intent of whoever wrote them.

And if they meant up when they said down, that's their problem.

I frankly, if the legislative history is utterly clear about that, too bad.

We're governed by the laws.

But as you'll hear, textualism is used in practice as a bludgeon by conservative justices to defang the laws they don't like and strengthen the ones they do.

This is 5-4, a podcast about how much the Supreme Court sucks.

Welcome to 5-4, where we dissect and analyze the Supreme Court cases that have caused our nation's promise to fall substantially short, like a Ben Simmons free throw.

Wow.

Get his ass.

Yes.

I am Peter.

I'm here with Michael.

Hey, everybody.

And Rhiannon.

Hi.

I saw it all in person, folks.

Game seven.

Over there.

Sixers, Hawks.

What an experience to be around Philadelphians, the most normal people in the world, while they watched their team collapse

in the public eye.

Everyone around me handled it really well.

I'll tell you that.

I bet.

Yeah.

I'll tell you one.

Maybe we shouldn't talk basketball.

Sorry.

I can just start talking basketball at any point.

It's a premium episode.

This is what you pay for, folks.

All right.

So, I'll tell you one

maybe unforeseen

negative aspect of the process, right?

The

Philadelphia's controversial method of building their team where they were terrible for five years is that then every single postseason, every single year becomes like a referendum on this like ideological commitment, right?

Yeah.

So it's like, it's not just like, oh, you lost.

It's like, this was another failure, a failure for your approach to basketball, you know?

Which the process was shit.

I am happy to see it fail.

Sorry, Peter.

I disagree.

I think they're now one of the top five teams in the league, and that's basically as much as you can hope for.

You have to hope your superstars pan out, and they didn't, you know?

Ben Simmons.

Let's do another 15 minutes of this.

All right.

Today's episode is about textualism.

Textualism is defined in the dictionary as a method of interpreting laws that focuses exclusively or near exclusively on the text of the law, as opposed to things like the purpose of the law, the legislative history of the law, things like that.

The proliferation of textualism has resulted in a huge number of legal opinions involving judges combing through the dictionary, finding the definitions of words that no normal human being would need to be defined.

And it's been, I think, one of the worst things to happen to law students, really, since the invention of the common law.

I think.

I like that the dictionary definition of textualism still didn't say enough about it that we need to do a whole episode.

So maybe that interpretive method actually isn't sufficient for living in the world.

Dictionary definitions, just not enough.

Yeah, that's true.

Although that wasn't really the dictionary definition, I just made it up.

Well, so are dictionary definitions.

So

it's true.

Call me Miriam, baby.

So although elements of...

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