A Morning With Vivian Wilson, Elon’s Estranged Daughter

I'm just a human being with a soul.

I'm just kidding.

I got my soul surgically removed.

Hello, hello, and welcome back to A Bit Fruity.

Today, we have a little bit of a different show.

This is not usually an interview podcast.

It's usually a culture and political analysis podcast, but I recently got to know someone who really exists at the center of so many conversations that we have on this podcast, but who we have yet to hear from on the fruity podcast mic.

And so I thought now's the time.

I haven't evaded Matt's place of residence.

Welcome to the podcast and welcome to my apartment, Vivian Jenna Wilson.

Vivian, you have had a whirlwind few months.

I have, yes.

Sort of into public figurehood, into this like very strange internet spotlight, which I'm like sort of familiar with, but not nearly probably the way that you are at this point.

And I'm just curious, like, how are you doing right now?

I'm doing good.

It's definitely like a lot to get used to all at once.

Cause it, it was very much, in my specific instance, it was like there was no trending wheels.

It was zero to 100.

So it's just, it's a bit of a struggle to get like acclimated to it, but obviously I'm very grateful for all the support and love I received.

And this is just such a unique experience and i want to enjoy it and like live life to the fullest you're giving your life that was the most pageant you were giving your pageant answer i'm done

hi thank you thank you do you want world peace

and when i'm crowned the queen i'll fight hard for world peace thank you thank you this moment means so much to me i keep getting those booking cheer videos on my tick tock i mean it's an earnest podcast but it's not that earnest

that was like real pageant material that was real pageant material

that was my honest answer i'm sorry

well but it i mean it really has come at you so quickly vivian got to my apartment a little while ago and we've just been having coffee and chatting it up it's a really rainy day here in new york yeah and you were telling me about how you went from like 22 followers on threads one day to it just like ballooned up.

Beloomed up.

Yeah, immediately.

It went from like literally 22 followers where I was shit posting about K-pop and like chatting with the gaggle of other trans people on a dead app to like 60,000 followers or something like that in the course of one night.

It was like nothing.

And then, oh, Jamie Lee Curtis just like knows who you are now.

I'm like, wow,

that's kind of coconuts.

And then I feel like there's also like coverage of the things that you put out on threads.

Yeah, especially pink news.

I literally will like post anything on threads and there'll be like an article about it the next day.

I mean, I'm so curious because like as someone who works like on the internet and like I I do this podcast for a job and whatever, like

everything happened pretty slowly.

Like, I've been doing this for like six years and like I've had time to incrementally get used to it.

Yeah.

I mean, just a few months ago, you were a very, very private person.

Yeah.

And all of a sudden, you're less so.

It was crazy.

I mean, I've always been like a pretty, I don't know if ostentatious is the right word.

It was very SATs, but

I've always been like a very kind of like extra person, not necessarily extroverted, more so now, obviously.

you kind of have to be

but I was kind of like overly charismatic enthusiastic I was kind of like I had a bit of Thorji Thor situation where like if there was something I liked doing was like wow you guys were gonna do I don't know what the fuck that voice was it was a little toad

wow we're gonna save the castle I don't know I'm just curious if it's been overwhelming or how you're doing it like it has very much so been overwhelming but like I am doing everything I can to not be overwhelmed overwhelmed and just be whelmed i was also curious like what made you decide to not like step into this role there's not really a role but like despite okay so the reason i got famous for those of you who don't know other than the nepotism the reason the nepotism happened jordan peterson was on a podcast with certain someone and obviously that's the fucking thing where the My son savior,

he's dead.

And Jordan Peterson was like, oh my God, I'm so, I don't know why I'm giving the British accent.

It's honestly really good.

I think it's just way more funny that way.

I think you're making Jordan Peterson sound like a little bit nicer than he actually is.

I'm making sound way hotter than he.

He's like, wow.

Like, I think Jordan Peterson.

I feel like he can.

No, that's too nasally.

Hold on.

He has this kind of like overly gravelly voice.

Wow, that happened to your child.

Like, that's actually accurate.

That's like Toad and Jordan Peterson.

What is what the Toad voice is today?

Yeah.

But Jordan Peterson was on this podcast He was like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry that your child is dead.

And I was like, just over there in the corner of literally in my small fucking apartment in Tokyo going to college.

And I was like, did this bitch just try to come for me?

And I was like, no.

No, I was literally like, hell fucking no.

I am not about to let this bitch come for me and have that just slide.

So I had my little threats response and it went mega coconuts viral.

I keep saying mega coconuts.

I stole that from Natalie Wynne.

I'm so sorry.

I also say coconuts and bananas all the time because Natalie Wynne.

She is like infested trans vocabulary and gay vocabulary.

Like infested.

It's super mega fucking coconuts.

It's super mega fucking coconuts.

So you hear this like dumb podcast.

Yeah.

And you're like, nope, I want to have a voice in this.

I literally saw it.

I woke up.

I woke.

I woke up to this.

This is the first thing I experienced that day.

Imagine the sun rising.

You're like being like,

my God, I'm ready for another day.

It was a week before finals week, so I should have been studying, but I was like fucking around.

And by fucking around, I mean rotting in my apartment, watching TikToks and like vibing.

Then I take my little phone.

I open the phone.

I see a text from my aunt.

I open the text.

I love the way you're telling this.

Yes.

And she's like,

this bitch just tried to come for me.

You.

And I was like,

gasp, double gasp.

This is not how it happened at all.

I love the like telenovelification of this family drama.

Exactly.

Yeah, no, I love the telephone.

I think we should, I think everyone should telenovelicize everything.

I think it's more fun.

I mean, influencers basically do that.

I'm just being honest.

I saw the clip and Jordan Peterson was like, he's dead.

So the first thing I do is I text my mom and I'm like, I can't let this bitch get to me.

I must retaliate.

I'm so sorry, mother.

I'm going into, I don't know what the fuck this bit is.

I texted my mom.

I'm just going to do a normal normal voice now.

So sorry.

Sure.

I texted my mom.

I'm like, I'm gonna go public.

So sorry.

You cannot tell me.

And at that point, she was kind of just like, yeah, I trust you.

Do what you need to do.

Obviously, just be careful and whatnot.

And then later on, I take a nap or whatever.

And then I wake up and I text my friends.

Obviously, I get like a bunch of texts because this thing went like super fucking viral.

I don't think y'all understand.

Well, honestly, the people listening to this podcast were paying attention.

Yeah.

The thing went super super viral and I'm getting like a bunch of texts and I text my friends that I'm going to go public.

And my friend was, here's the thing, I was like kind of used to that, especially after the book came, there was a book came out.

They should have talked to me, whatever, it's fine.

Fuck you, Walter Isaacson.

Yeah, fuck you, Walter Isaacson.

That was direct.

And my friend also, I think everyone has like one friend where they get, because like I'm used to this shit.

She wasn't.

She was so much angrier than I was about the whole situation because I was like Nolan void to it.

And I was like, I'm going public.

And she was like, oh my God, bitch, fuck yes.

I'm so excited for you.

You better eat him alive.

And I was like,

I will do my best.

And then I did my best.

And then Jamie Lee Critis followed me.

That's the story of how it happened.

Prior to that, I mean, you had always lived a private life.

I mean, yeah, pretty much.

And I had like no socials.

Yeah.

My socials were all like private.

I mean, it feels like the privacy was almost kind of taken from you.

I don't know if it was necessarily taken from me because I chose to respond.

Yeah.

And when I chose to respond, I knew what I was getting into.

And even then, I could have dumbed the threads post and then disappeared back into the wind.

And I didn't.

Yeah.

That's my choice.

So I'm not going to say it was taken from me.

It was, I was given a choice and I chose.

You said a second ago to me that your response actually went more viral than the initial podcast clip.

And how was that?

Validating.

Yeah.

Very valid.

That was the moment I realized, oh, fuck, I actually do have a voice.

Yeah.

Because before that, I kind of was just like, I felt so powerless.

Also, I had all this like pent up emotion,

obviously from childhood and life and whatever.

And it was literally probably the most cathartic moment of my entire life

doing that.

That's really amazing to hear because I feel like I would imagine it could have been like super overwhelming.

And it probably was, but it was like a.

It was, but it was also like very exciting.

It was like a whole new woman.

I was very Jasmine.

Did you anticipate the level of support?

Honestly, no.

I thought it would be, there would be a lot more backlash than there was.

Obviously, the conservatives hate me, but I don't even fucking what they think.

So, girl.

It's easy to compartmentalize when conservatives hate you, I feel like.

Like, for me, it's like

once you get called a faggot once, like, you've gotten called a faggot a thousand times.

Once you get called an AGP once, once you get called an HSTS Briton or whatever the fuck, once you get called, this is like crazy 4chan lingo that I had to, my ex had to explain to me what an AGP Briton was.

I have literally no idea.

And an HSTS passoid because people were calling me these things.

And I was like, I have no, like, she told me that people were calling me this.

I was like, I looked at her.

I'm like, what the fuck does that mean?

Okay, so apparently, here's the thing.

I knew what passoid was.

I did not know what any of the other ones was.

Passoid is, it's like the most 4chan shit imaginable.

Yeah.

4chan has the LGBT board, the TTT one, TTTTT.

Okay.

And what it is, it's a a bunch of like lonely, conservative trans femmes in the closet who find the most obnoxious possible way to talk about literally everything regarding the trans experience.

They call people who pass pasoids as a derogatory term.

They're like, also, 4chan is like obsessed with passing.

Like

kind of the entire trans internet is obsessed with passing because it's like a reasonable thing to be obsessed about, especially when safety is in the picture.

But I feel like it's when a slur that someone calls you is so like

rooted in terminally online culture that you don't even know what they're calling you.

It's like, that's kind of the read in and of itself.

Yeah.

It's like you think you ate that, but the only thing you ate was yourself.

No, that's quite the, yeah.

Yeah.

The only thing you ate was yourself.

Were you ever scared of to make your voice so public?

Oh, yeah.

I was definitely scared.

Yeah.

But like it got to a point where it's like, I don't really have anything to lose.

My reputation, I had been dragged so far through the mud, and I was used as like an example of why trans kids should not exist, basically.

And I was like, literally at this point, there's nowhere to go but up because I was used as that scapegoat for so long, like in the book.

And I keep calling it the book, in the biography, in conservative culture in general, whenever anyone would talk about me.

Because for those of you who don't know, I got my court document, my name changed court documents leaked in 2022.

And again, again, they used that as another example of like how I'm like, I don't know, fucking bunkers, which I am fucking bonkers.

Just not in the way that they accuse you of being in the world.

Exactly.

Just a quick break from the episode to thank the sponsor of today's episode, Factor.

Lately, between making this podcast and doing live shows for this podcast, which I'm currently touring around for, and making stuff for social media and trying to sneak in a little bit of extra time just to take care of myself.

I honestly haven't had that much time for anything else.

Hashtag girl boss, hashtag he they boss.

One super helpful way for me to tastefully, no pun intended, cut corners is with Factor.

Factor is a meal delivery service with chef-made gourmet meals that are ready to eat in just two minutes.

With factor, there are a bunch of different meal options that you can try for all of your dietary needs.

I personally go for Protein Plus.

If you, like me, are a closeted gym rat, then that might be a good option for you.

Protein Plus has so many high-protein options that are way yummier than, you know, unseasoned grilled chicken and rice every single day.

No shade to people who love to meal prep.

If you too would like to tastefully cut some corners and make eating at home a more varied and less laborious experience, you should try Factor.

You can get started at factormeals.com/slash fruity50 off for 50% off your first box and free shipping.

That's factormeals.com/slash fruity50 off.

Thank you so much to Factor.

And now let's get back to the episode.

So you just celebrated five years of coming out?

I did.

I came out.

Congratulations.

I came out May 5th, 2020.

I think it was May 5th or 6th.

I don't remember which one.

Happy five.

Happy five.

Thank you.

What was your like coming out like?

Okay, it was the cringiest coming out I think I've that's I've ever heard of in history.

Like I posted to my answer story one of those you know those like extreme close-up like I call them like crack shots of like your face okay for like the memes kind of like the 0.5 thing but it was like sure sure sure yeah it was literally just like a close-up of like my face making like a funny face being cringe and shit

and I had it hi everyone I'm trans she her pronouns.

And then at the bottom left, I was like, because I didn't want to make it a whole thing.

And I wanted someone, I wanted people to be able to talk to me about something other than that.

So maybe if I mentioned something else, they would grasp onto that.

And then the conversation would be less awkward.

My dumbass thought that less awkward meant talking about the hunger games.

Okay.

So I also said, Are you Team Peter or Teen?

You're like, I'm.

I was what?

I had just turned 16.

Okay, give me a fucking break.

And you're like, I'm transgender.

What does everyone think about the hunger games?

Maybe I am.

I love the strategy there.

I wish I could have been in your 16-year-old brain at the point in which you were strategizing.

Like, how do I make my coming out less about the coming out and more about like PETA?

I was like,

how do I destroy my social reputation even more?

I mean, I didn't.

Obviously, being trans was relatively fun.

It was Los Angeles.

Okay.

Like, you grew up in LA.

Yeah, I did.

I'm from LA.

But I was like, how do I make everyone think I'm even more of a nerdy shut-in than everyone already does?

Because no, I was like not popular at all in high school.

I like very much, I kept to myself.

I was that girl.

Yeah.

And how, how was it coming out?

It was cool.

I posted all Mainstay story and then people were like, okay.

And then was it like fine in your personal life, like until the media came along?

Other than the obvious, yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, like, there was some struggle.

There were some people who struggled to get used to it, but like, whatever.

You brought up something about like being basically like turned into a pawn, where it's like, when conservatives want to talk about trans people, they talk about you.

It was definitely one of the pawns that they used when they wanted to talk about like why trans kids or like brainwash or whatever the fuck, because of the woke mind virus.

I love the woke mind virus.

I love the woke mind virus.

It's a real virus.

It's among my favorite viruses.

It's among our favorite viruses.

But something that I think so much about, and that we get to touch on sometimes on this podcast, is the way that, like, we as culture, from sort of all sides politically, turn people, like human beings, into pawns, into symbols of bigger conversations that like may or may not really have anything to do with them.

Yeah.

And like, I think about it.

I mean, I talk about, I always find ways to talk about Britney Spears, but like we really, we continue to do this with Britney Spears.

I mean, 20 years ago, we did it with Britney Spears regarding like, we wanted to talk about conversations of like young womanhood and sexuality, and we would project all of those complicated things onto Britney Spears, who is like an 18-year-old woman.

Yeah.

And now we talk about like mental health and disability rights through the body of Britney Spears.

Britney Spears for tangent over.

I just have to slip it in there.

I also think about that in the context of like another thing that I've talked about a lot on this podcast, which was like the Dylan Mulvaney Bud Light song.

Oh my God.

I feel so bad.

I felt so bad for her.

Yeah.

Okay.

I'm not going to lie.

That was one of the things that fucking horrified me about like potentially becoming famous is I saw that and literally like the first week of like the first few weeks of becoming famous, I was the only thing I could think of was like,

that could be me someday.

Like, are they going to Dylan Mulvaney me?

Yeah, pretty much.

And I was like, well, I'm pretty high up on the list of trans people who conservatives don't like i think i'm at least in the top 10 yeah so i'm like fuck that might happen to me one day but you don't feel like it has um not yet i don't feel like it has it's cool and it's pretty like fascinating how you're able to because obviously people have said crazy shit yeah but it seems like you're able to compartmentalize it really well yeah you just push it deep deep down

But I will say, there's one thing I want to talk about in the hate comments.

When conservative call me like a tiny and a faggot and whatever, I can can say that right.

Of course.

When they call me a tiny and a shemeal and a faggot and other source.

And I'm like, okay, whatever, whatever.

I don't care.

But then when like a leftist says, I saw like a leftist saying, like, I find her obnoxious.

That one actually kind of hurt because they're like, I value, I value your opinion.

Girl.

And I am obnoxious, but you don't need to call me that.

Oh my gosh.

I would love to just like talk about like dealing with different types of hate comments because it's so, I feel like we were talking about how it's like, once you've been called a faggot or some slur once by a conservative, you've it's like it doesn't hit anymore no it doesn't it's like oh you're like i know how that feels tick and like these people of course they hate me it's like who cares yeah but when you get it from people who you think are on your own like it hurts a lot more and it might be like a way lesser insult yeah but it's from someone who you think should like you yeah i don't know that's my experience that's my experience as well no that's very true 100 guilt behind that i remember i used to talk to my therapist about that i was like but they're on my side.

They're on my side and they're like making TikToks about me or whatever.

And she was like, but if they're talking about you that way, then maybe they're not really as on your side as you think they are.

Yeah.

There's always going to be someone like who doesn't like you.

And

I did see a TikTok about me by someone who was like, I don't think we should trust her because they're like,

is she doing like a psyop?

Is this like all fake?

And I'm like,

bitch, I did not lose like down to my fucking health insurance and sell plan just to be like a fake tranny on the internet.

Like, what the fuck are you talking about?

Like, I don't know.

People are also, I mean, people are so so many people are just desperate to like have a conspiracy about the world.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, no, I'm like, I think there is actually like a lot less conspiracy than people think, which is kind of like a boring answer, but like, it's kind of, I feel like a lot of things are less intentional than people think, but we'll see.

I don't know.

Maybe the moon landing was fake.

Okay, we're keeping it open eyes.

Done with lasers or whatever the fuck.

They had Quentin Tarantino.

What's up?

Jewish, Jewish space, Jewish space lasers.

That's anti-Semitic.

Yeah, but I'm Jewish.

Oh, my God.

They're gonna clip that and be like, oh, God.

Oh, God.

I do it to myself.

I do it to myself.

I do not actually believe the moonlander was fake for the fucking record.

Thank you very much.

I am, yeah.

And I don't believe the space lasers were Jewish.

Who made the space lasers, Matt?

Who made them?

The Italians.

Are you Italian?

Nope.

Sorry, you're offending a group.

That was some strong anti-Italian ex-sentiment on the Ubit Fruti podcast.

Sorry.

But people being turned into symbols.

Like I said, it's something I think about.

Sorry, I'm going to say that way.

People being turned into symbols.

Are they being turned into symbols?

People being turned into symbols.

But they're being turned.

Are they being turned into symbols or not, Matt?

People being turned into symbols.

people being turned into symbols what symbols are they being turned into

okay breathe

this is this is the recording process there's always matt did you know something people being turned into symbols people are being turned into symbols

the symbols mama they're being turned into

speaking of people being turned into symbols it kind of i feel like happens from every direction and you i was going through your threads account when i was writing down some notes that i wanted to bring up when I got to talk to you.

Is this from my angsty early famous posting days?

How early was a month ago?

I'm being exposed.

How early was a month ago?

You shady bitch.

You wrote something that I thought was really interesting.

You basically wrote that people like on the left were referring to you as some sort of like Katniss Everdeen, heroic rebel figure.

And so.

What I find interesting about the like kind of reducing people into like these pawns in culture wars and stuff is that, you know, people who hate you will turn you into like a cartoon villain.

Yeah.

And then the people who are kind of claiming you for their side will turn you into like a cartoon martyr.

Yeah.

No, it's kind of crazy because like either way, it's just you're being,

I don't know if strollmanned is the right word, but you're being like exaggerated.

And there's a sense of connecting dots that don't exist in order to like fulfill this narrative.

This is just a lot of fucking buzzwords.

Okay.

You're kind of just turned into like a stroman on either side, which is not great.

Also, the murder street is really weird because I'm like, I'm still alive.

Why are you turning me into a martyr?

I don't get that.

That's like something I did not expect.

But it's definitely something I've seen.

It's like at the heart of all these conversations that are so much bigger than you.

It's just like this like 21-year-old person.

Yeah.

I'm just like a 21-year-old

bitchy nerd.

What do you want now that you're being out in public and all that?

Like, what do you want people to know from you, like the person, not you, the symbol?

What I want people to know about me is under the insane, genuinely insane amount of random cultural references that I make and all this obnoxiousness and Rapunzel hair, I'm just a human being with a soul.

I'm just kidding.

I got my soul surgically removed.

That's the gender surgeries they've been talking about.

It's the soul removal.

They demurify your soul.

Sure.

Yeah.

They take your soul, they make it more demure, and then they give it back to you.

In my case, it turned out it was a scam.

Oh, sure.

So they just took it and they never gave it back.

Okay, I'm going to pull another post of yours.

Oh, wow.

You posted on threads that people should stop shipping you with Baron Trump.

There is an AO3 fanfiction featuring me and Baron Trump.

That is so horrible.

I think it was after I made the post.

I'm not sure.

I'd have to check the dates.

I'm sure you've seen a lot of crazy shit about yourself, but I'm specifically so sorry about that one.

That one is really funny, though.

Don't do it, but it is funny.

Not happening.

Absolutely not.

What?

That twink never

is he's twinkling he's like six four baron trump is can you be like a a a i don't know like a fascist child and a twink maybe he is mileynopoulos mileynopoulos he is a fascist child twink what what is some of the craziest like that you've seen about yourself okay i've seen some really funny

um the funniest one i think i've seen i posted this on threads was someone attributed my lore i'm just gonna call it my lore because so i don't have to go into depth every single time sure someone attributed my lore to my astrological sign to explain my behavior in like a critical way because they were conservative.

But they also got the astrological sign wrong because they got my wrong burden.

But they were like, she is trans because of her sign.

Yeah.

What sign are you?

I'm an Aries.

Okay.

I think they got the Aries part right, but Aries part right, but they attributed it to my rising.

Okay.

And it was a different rising.

Okay.

I think my rising is Aries or Cancer.

But they said like...

Horoscopes are making people trans now.

Yeah.

I wish.

That's like the funniest thing I've ever seen.

That was like the funniest thing I want to ever go.

Do you ever feel like you're just like hallucinating when you see like just stupid shit about yourself?

Yes, all the time.

You're like, what?

Like, these people live in the Twilight Zone.

Yeah.

I see a lot of people who like go out of their way to make fake accounts of me.

I'm like, oh, am I that interesting?

Like, a lot of conservatives also.

I've seen a lot of people go on Twitter, try to make an account under like my name and use one of my pictures for their profile thing and say, the media has it all wrong.

I love

that.

And

it's obviously in a way I would never type.

And usually it's like chat GPT or some shit.

But like, it's the most wild shit I've ever seen.

Are they like, I'm a cis girl?

I'm actually a cis girl and like everything's fine.

No, they don't think I'm obviously my transition is like documented, so they can't say I'm a cis girl.

They were like, sure, I'm like, sorry, I made a mistake.

And I've made no mistakes.

I've made zero mistakes and I have zero remorse.

This would not be an episode of A Bit Fruity

if if I did not give some lashings to conservative LGBT people.

Oh, God.

Let's go at it.

The first episode I ever did of this podcast was actually,

you're about to find out.

I have a guess.

Who's your guess?

My guess is Kaylin Conrad just made like a two-hour documentary about Brianna Wu.

So is it Brianna Wu?

It's not Brianna Wu.

Oh, who is it?

The first episode of this podcast that I ever did was with Natalie Wynne, who we both love.

I love her.

And it was about LGBT conservatives.

And as I was scrolling some things that you've posted,

you gave some very, I think, well-deserved lashings to trans conservative YouTuber Blair White.

Oh,

messy.

I see.

I mean, I'm not being messy.

She came for me first.

What did she say?

This was like in 2022 when the only thing that was public about me was the court document that was released and what was said about me in the book.

That was all anyone knew about me.

And she attributed the fact that I was trans to my, to the fact that my high school had a cross-dressing day, which was news to me.

And I had, because I was like, I had literally never heard of this or remembered it.

Like, maybe it happened that I just wasn't paying attention and was absent that day.

Sounds fabulous.

But apparently they stopped it the year before I entered the school.

So never even happened.

And that's not how people become trans.

And she knows that.

Why do you think someone like Blair White is so discouraging?

Dunny.

Yeah.

She makes a fuck ton of money in in sponsorships and like YouTube apps.

I keep fucking fucking with the table.

I'm sorry.

It's okay.

It's money.

Correct.

And like attention.

I do think she genuinely believes what she says though.

You do.

Maybe like a slightly less exaggerated version.

But like, I mean, I know there are a bunch of like hosts of like Fox News that are like apparently labor behind the seats, allegedly, which I'm not sure if I believe.

Yeah.

I mean, my take with that kind of stuff is it's like, it actually doesn't even matter if they really believe it or not.

It doesn't.

What matters is what they say is the result of the product.

exactly, of the product they put out in the world.

And like, whether or not you go home and you're like, I'm actually nice behind the scenes, it's like, doesn't matter because you're not nice in front of the scenes.

Yeah.

Because, regardless of what they actually think, the product is the product.

And the product is working as intended.

Fucking Blair White.

She is so interesting to me.

I mean, she's not that interesting because, like you said, it's like, once you're making money from that sort of speech, it's like, okay, well, you're just going to do it as long as it's making money.

She's gone progressively further, right?

As she's going to like, oh, fuck you, Blair White.

I want to get that out there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Fuck Blair White.

Fuck LGBT conservatives.

It's, it's a fixation that I have because I'm just like, how?

How?

And like you said, it's like, once they're making money from it.

But there are like LGBT conservatives who are also like not making money.

That's the thing.

And I'm like, there's, it's just, you know, so much self-hatred.

Again, it is like delusion.

Like, they genuinely think that these people like actually tolerate them.

And it's like, no, they don't, babes.

I think it is a lot of delusion.

And it's, and it's like this optimism about, like, no, I'm one of the good ones.

I promise I'm one of the good ones, but they'll never see you that way.

There's like a desperation from validation because, like, if someone says, Natalie when I actually talked about this, if someone says something negative about you, you might be more inclined to believe it's true.

And conservatives say negative shit about the gays and the Chinese all the time.

I literally just said Chinese.

The gays and the trans people all the time.

The gays and the trans, the gays.

You can say it.

I can't.

The gays.

I've really got point.

Okay.

I don't want to be accidentally like, people are mad at me that I say the word Chinese a lot.

But I think it's really funny.

That is not my cross-change.

Claire White also says trans.

Does she?

I think.

Probably, but she probably means it negatively.

If someone says something negative about you, especially in regards to your trans identity, because obviously, especially when starting out, you're kind of desperate for anyone to perceive you as what you perceive yourself as.

And you might be going to like really negative places and going to depths that you shouldn't be going to in search for validation, even if it's fake.

And I think that might be kind of where some LGBT conservatives are at.

Obviously, I'm not one and I'm not like a psychologist or anything.

So it's not really correct of me to psychoanalyze an entire group of people.

But like, I don't know, maybe that has something to do with something.

A quick break from the episode to give a shout out to Blue Land.

Blue Land was the first sponsor this podcast ever had when it was hardly even a podcast.

And we are still going strong.

So I haven't pissed them off too much much yet.

I like for my apartment to look nice.

Moreover, I like the things that I use to make my apartment look nice to look nice.

When you live in New York City, you get used to living in very small spaces and it gets very easy for clutter to make itself very known.

And bottles of cleaning supplies lying around everywhere with, frankly, garish neon tones.

It's kind of an eyesore, at least for me.

At least for me.

I care a lot about what my home looks like all the time, and I'm a stickler about these things.

Blue Land is a line of sustainable home cleaning products on a mission to eliminate single-use plastic by reinventing cleaning essentials that are better for you and the planet.

And they look really great, which I know is not really the point, but they do.

All you do with Blue Land is buy one of their forever bottles, beautifully and functionally designed.

You fill it with water and you pop in a tablet of whatever cleaning solution you bought, whether that's mirror cleaner, multipurpose cleaner, hand soap, you name it.

And you're set.

And when you run out of your cleaning solution, all you have to do is pop in a refill tablet, fill the bottle back up with water, and you're ready to go again.

And those refill tablets start for as low as $2.25.

So not only better on the planet, but easier on your wallet.

If you'd like to try Blue Land, you can head over to blueland.com slash fruity for 15% off your first order.

That is blue land.com slash fruity.

Thanks so much to Blue Land as always.

And now let's get back to the episode.

You know what?

I'm gonna say this.

I want to be, I'm gonna be cunty.

Jordan Peterson, thank you for making me famous.

That was good.

Yeah, that was really good.

I bet you didn't expect that turn of events, bitch.

Fucking lobster, bitch.

Stop trying to fuck the lobsters.

They're not interesting.

They're not.

That's good.

That's good.

Just because your face is red does not mean you should fuck something that is red.

She's got jokes.

Yeah.

She's got reeves.

Back to.

He looks like his parents got fucked by a lobster.

This is a Jordan Peterson roast.

Tell me what else.

The floor is yours.

You know, it makes sense that he's obsessed with hierarchies because I bet in bed he likes to be at the bottom of one.

Ooh.

Yeah.

I'm calling him to the zoo.

No, that was good.

I'm going to get fucking canceled.

I mean, everyone listening to this podcast,

here's a fun activity.

If you're listening to this podcast right now on Spotify, where there's now a comment section or YouTube.

Spotify has a comment section.

Yeah.

Give us your.

I feel like that's a horrible idea.

Probably, but not for this episode, because if you're listening to this, I want you to give us your most creative Jordan B.

Peterson lashing.

You like jazz?

I feel like he's someone who would pretend to like jazz for like the social esteem.

Yeah, because he's like, I'm a real conservative.

Because like, it's like real music.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, I feel like he's one of those people who, like, secretly listens to like Maggie and the Stallion.

You are 21 years old.

Uh-huh.

Not to do the, like, you know, what I will just say before we started recording, Vivian called me an elder gay.

I did not.

I'm 26.

I did not call you an elder gay.

I said you had like the aura of an elder gay.

You're not actually an elder gay.

You're 26.

I am 26.

But you know, who's an elder gay?

Jordan B.

Peter.

She's quick.

She's quick.

She's witty.

She's sharp.

You know what?

I think it's good to be called an elder gay.

Like, it's going to happen at some point.

Every gay talks about this.

Like, at some point, you get called an elder gay.

It's a band-aid that needs to be ripped off.

And I am happy for you to be.

You're 26.

I'm 26.

You have a while before that bandaid gets ripped off, though.

Well, okay.

So speaking of, you have even longer ahead of you.

I'm not a gay man.

Well, no, that's not what I mean.

I do not have to experience tweet death.

No, No, I want to look like Merle Street in the Double Horse Prado.

Like, that's my goal.

As a 21-year-old, I don't want to be like, what's next for you?

But you have literally your life ahead of you.

Not to sound like a cliche, but.

But what do I want to do next?

I really, really enjoy modeling.

Specifically, I've been doing some photography modeling.

And I mean, it sounds vain to say, like, I enjoy modeling, but I do.

It's really fun.

I really like how you can get like really creative with the posing.

And I struggle sometimes with like serving the correct amount of face, but it's like something that I've really been working on trying to improve.

And I really, really enjoy modeling.

And I don't want to sound vain.

It doesn't sound vain.

Really fucking good at it.

Yeah, you are.

We saw the Teen Vogue cover.

Oh, honey, y'all haven't seen shit yet.

Period.

No, because I have some shit that I'm like, I've seen the photos for.

I'm like, oh.

The lesbians are going to get.

The lesbians are gang.

And the gays are going to get hang.

And the biased.

And the trans, and maybe some heterosexuals.

Maybe.

That's like.

the ones who know who i am that's like kind of extracurricular though yeah exactly we don't really care what they think yeah sorry but we care what metamorphosis thinks what were you studying in japan i was studying japanese language i wanted to be an english teacher or a translator do you still see that somewhere in your future or your past um i don't know if obviously i don't think family's gonna last forever but like i'm using this opportunity to explore different i don't sound like a fucking pageant queen again i'm using this opportunity to explore different career paths that might not have been open to me otherwise and see what I enjoy, what I don't enjoy.

And then obviously I still intend on getting a degree.

If it's in the same thing, we'll see.

But like, if fame dies down, then I will continue on the path because I love languages.

And if it doesn't, I'm going to be just vibing.

Professionally Vivian?

Yeah.

professionally Vivian.

But like,

this is like something that happens to very few people.

And I'm very fortunate to be able to get to experience something like this in this life.

So I'm like, I should take advantage of this and see if it's something that I want to take even more advantage of because I really enjoy modeling.

And that's something that might not have been open to me otherwise.

I mean, probably open, but not like sustainable, right?

Sure.

I actually got off the plane in New York and the first thing someone did was like hand me.

a little card being like, do you have an agent?

Do you have a modeling agent?

I was like, this is correct.

And if you are a casting director who happens to be listening to this podcast, hire Vivian.

My body is tea.

You just can't see it right now because I'm draped in black.

And the hair and the face.

The hair you can't see.

Hold on.

You got everything going on.

If you are, if you work for Pantene and you're listening to this podcast, look at the material.

Look at the material.

Look at the fucking material.

It's organic.

This is a big question, maybe,

but you know, obviously the climate for LGBT people and for trans people specifically is, you know, I don't need to tell you what it is because we're all living through it.

Hello.

And this is kind of corny.

But do you have like a message for trans people now that you're out and have this like kind of huge microphone?

Um, just okay.

When Teen Vogue asked me this basically some exact question, I quoted Conscious Voice, but I didn't realize I was quoting a movie that I had never heard of.

Okay.

So to me, it's a quote from Conscious Voice, which is like, stay strong, sister, don't let the bastards get you down.

Which

to me, what that means is like be confident in yourself and who you are and don't let other people's perception of who you are affect your own perception of who you are because you are valid and you are that bitch if you want to be that bitch period if you don't want to be that bitch then you don't have to you don't have to be yeah yeah

but like don't let other people's perceptions of you affect what you think of who you are or affect your own perception of who you are.

That's my message.

I feel like you have so much authority in telling people to not let the bastards get them down because the bastards have certainly tried to get you down.

They did not succeed.

They only contributed to my rise.

Period.

Fucking.

Now I'm a trans icon according to fake news.

They called me a trans icon.

Does it feel a little like quick to have that title thrust upon you?

I'm 21 years old.

That's how I felt when you called me a gay elder.

I was like, I called you the spirit of a gay elder, and I thought you actually were a blood.

Thank you very much.

Well, you're the spirit of a trans icon, so

are you the spirit of a trans icon?

What if what if?

Is that your impression of my voice, my squeaky little voice?

No, your voice is lower than mine.

Yeah.

Okay, to wrap it up, I have a couple of pop culture questions.

Oh, shoot.

Okay.

Are you ready?

Okay.

Absolutely.

Are you, do you listen to pop music?

Yeah.

What is your favorite album out recently?

I don't know jack shit about album.

You know how Beyoncé was like, artists don't release albums anymore.

I never paid attention to albums.

I am part of the problem because I never actually paid attention to what was on what album.

Okay, fair enough.

What music are you listening to?

A lot of K-pop and a lot of like pop-hop.

Have you been following the Blackpink solo releases?

Oh, girl.

I love Jenny.

You should not say that on camera right now.

Do you know the scandal?

No.

She said the N-word.

There's a video of Blackpink saying the N-word.

All three of them, except for Jisoo.

I love Jisoo.

She's my favorite from Black Pink.

You're done.

She actually was my favorite from Black Pink, so that hasn't changed.

Well, and she did release a really good single, Earthquake, that I was listening to.

I haven't heard that one.

I love Flower.

Flower is my favorite.

I love the basic bitch.

Flower is my favorite song.

Okay, speaking of pop music, thoughts on Katy Perry going to space.

Okay.

Some of this podcast has been heavy.

I want to lighten it up a little bit.

My thoughts on Katy Perry going to space.

It's, you know,

it's a woman's world, right?

And it kept spinning, regardless as to whether or not she was on it for five minutes.

And then she came back.

Yeah.

Unfortunately.

It's fucking brutal.

Katy Perry is like a, and I don't say this with spite, but she's a deeply like millennial figure.

Oh, the most.

She's like, you know, it's very, um, you know, I was little, I was like, I just did a thing.

I thought Rory came out in 1999.

I didn't realize it was 2013.

Okay, now you're making me feel like a gay elder.

You're like five years older than me.

Calm down.

Yeah, but you were actually born in 1999.

I was born in 98.

I was born in 2004.

You thought Roar came out in 1999.

Yeah.

You are a big, you are the big drag race fan.

I am an encyclopedia of drag race knowledge.

In fact, Vivian and I have hung out three times this weekend.

Literally, completely by accident.

I didn't even know I was doing this.

I was like, I came to New York.

We were both at the same function.

And then we were both at this, at the drag race,

All-Stars 10.

Premier Party.

Premier Party, yeah.

and now we're here so this is the third time this is just like fate has keeps pushing us into a room together you could only avoid me for so long i think it's vice versa

yeah i'm never i'm so thrilled i'm so thrilled i'm so thrilled on the day of our recording this it is the premiere of all-stars 10.

yes who are you rooting for to go all the way here's the thing i have multiple of their numbers So if I say someone in particular, the others are going to be mad.

Okay.

I don't know if they care that much.

But I mean, I feel like the politically correct answer for me to say is: I am rooting for all my dolls, all the dolls, all the trans representation on the season.

Aja, Bosco, Carrie, Foley.

There's so much talent on this season, and there's so many just like iconic figures, not only from like drag race itself, but also just like in pop culture in general, especially what they've done, like outside of the show.

Like, Mistress has really exceeded outside of the show.

Aja has become such like this huge name in ballroom.

And it's just like, really, it warms my heart to see our drag race girls killing it the dolls yeah the dolls mistress is not trans mistress is not trans no no she is a cis man we're transvestigating mistress isabel brooks on the a bit pretty podcast we're done did you see they transvestigated the pope the new one they're transvestigating the pope they literally were like he i mean she

is a trans man and i'm like baby

I want whatever you're smoking.

Lovingly.

Yeah.

You can't even be the Pope anymore without being transvestigated.

People have transvestigated me.

And I'm obviously a demiurcy woman.

On the topic of like hate comments that we've received, one of the most memorable ones was my very first TikToks.

I did this like kick onto a table because I thought it was like so county and I was like feeling it.

It got like 20 million views on Twitter.

Thank you to whatever conservative posted that on Twitter with my dead name because you basically made my TikTok career.

So we stay winning regardless.

It was like kicking my leg up onto the table being like, I'm not just a bitch.

I'm a bitch with a backstory.

And someone froze the frame where my leg was the highest in the air and then circled a line of fabric that they thought was my dick

and said, I found it.

What the fuck?

Yeah.

What the fuck?

Yeah.

In red, too.

It was very YouTuber.

Jesus Christ.

Yeah.

I'm so sorry that that happened to you.

It was so funny.

You laugh it off.

I don't give a fuck.

Yeah.

I thought it was so funny.

That is fucking

funny.

And people are psychopaths.

It wasn't my dick.

I mean, they thought my dick was like enormous.

Like that, they

like because I don't think they realized how tall I was.

The thing in the red circle that was like a line of fabric, that thing was like 12 inches.

Like, maybe, no.

People are fucking crazy.

Yeah.

Can I end on sort of a cheesy pageant question?

Yes.

Given everything,

personally, politically, nationally,

what is something that's giving you hope and joy right now?

The symbol.

Fuck off.

What's giving me joy is

because I am a trans icon.

And when I am crowned a trans icon,

I will find art for world peace.

Okay, I need to stop just referencing all the brain rot that this podcast has given me.

What's something that's giving me energy?

Something that's giving me life is drag.

I love drag.

I love drag.

Me do love drag.

Yeah.

I'm going back to LA and I'm going to make it my mission to see like as many drag shows as possible.

Vivian Jen Wilson, thank you for being here on the Abit Fruity Podcast.

Thank you for having me on the Abit Fruity Podcast.

Before we go, where can people find you and where can people hire you?

I'm distracted by the fact that you're posing like a flamingo.

Okay, you know what?

You sit in these chairs for long enough and it gets

weird.

No, it's very like

every bone crack.

Where can people?

It was deafening.

I heard every single thing in your knee just pop.

It sounded like a fucking crunch bar.

Like those chocolate things with like the rice crispies inside.

Sure, sure.

Like when you crunch down on one.

Yeah, yeah.

That's what it was giving.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Where can people find you?

My TikTok is vivillinous.

My Instagram is also vivulinous.

And it's like the word villainous, but with a viv at the front because I'm very clever.

Do you want to give like a pageant goodbye to the camera?

Honorary judges and members of the esteemed panel.

This is Vivian Wilson hailing from the golden state of California.

Thank you so much for your time.

That was really fucking impressive.

Yeah.

It only took me like eight tries.

And that was my morning conversation with Vivian Jenna Wilson.

It is a hard time to be a 21-year-old girl.

It is a hard time to be transgender.

It is, I imagine, a hard time to have that person be your father.

And it was just a real joy getting to know Vivian as Vivian, not as a pawn in a culture war or a conversation that is about so much more than her, but just as her, a 21-year-old person.

I hope you enjoyed getting to sit down with her as much as I did.

I hope you don't mind that this week we took a break from all of the, you know, hardcore internet analysis deep dives to just talk to someone who so often gets spoken for, especially by people who don't have her best interest at heart, and just give her the mic to speak for herself.

I love you so much.

Thanks for listening today, and until next time, stay fruity.