Sam Rockwell

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Speaker 1 Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dak Shepard, and I'm joined by Lily Padman.
Hi.

Speaker 1 And we have one of my biggest crushes alive.

Speaker 2 He's a stud.

Speaker 1 Oh, what an animal. Sam Rockwell.

Speaker 2 You know him from absolutely everything.

Speaker 1 He's just got that X factor. He's got that sprinkle of just unbridled charisma.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he has an electricity.

Speaker 1 High on the soul spectrum. Also uber comfortable in his own skin.
Yep.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we love him.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I'm going to put him in a top five, like most comfortable in their own skin.
I don't know who the other. I know Snoop's there.
Sure. He might be number one, but that's a nice quality.

Speaker 2 Okay, on a scale of one to 100, where do you put you?

Speaker 1 Comfortable in my own skin. And I'm going to, let's just arbitrarily give Rockwell 92.
Okay. We'll give Snoop 100.
Okay.

Speaker 1 I'll go 88.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think you're very comfortable in your skin.

Speaker 1 Most of the time. Yeah.
Yeah. I have my moments, but.
Well, talking to Snoop, funny enough. Sure.
I get so insecure.

Speaker 2 That's how this works. If you talk to people who are above you on the scale.

Speaker 1 They shine a light on the 12% that's uncomfortable. Okay, three billboards outside of Ebbing, missouri the green mile jojo rabbit moon charlie's angels so memorable white lotus season three

Speaker 1 and then and this is a bit of an update

Speaker 1 i ended up after this interview just tagging along with him oh nice to go watch the bad guys too it wasn't a premiere it was just for the cast oh fun and i went And it was so fun.

Speaker 1 And I love the movie. Did you see the first one?

Speaker 2 No, what I wanted.

Speaker 1 They do actions so well. That's the unique thing about this particular franchise is the actions off the charts.
Nice. And it was great.
The Bad Guys 2. And that is out in theaters, August 1st.

Speaker 1 Take care, loved ones. You'll love it.
Please enjoy Sam Rockwell.

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Speaker 1 I'm thrilled. I got you some chocolate.

Speaker 2 Dex is on chocolate.

Speaker 1 I don't know if you're into it. Gorgeous.

Speaker 1 I don't know which ones you want to trade.

Speaker 1 No, both seem so cheap. I took the one with the almond.
Sorry. Yeah, I would have had the one with the almond, too.
What is this place? Morning. Morris.

Speaker 1 God damn. They really know what they're doing.
Yeah, dirty matra? Yeah. You want to pull off that too? Wow.
Let's see how fucking

Speaker 1 can you take in a day?

Speaker 1 We're going to need a pack of cigarettes at some point. It's been a long time for me.
I had a cigarette recently. Oh, you did? I haven't had one in seven years.
On the deck of a boat or...

Speaker 1 On Easter Island. Okay, so not a terrible guess.
Yeah. What were you doing on Easter Island? I was doing a movie.
Oh, we're recording, aren't we? You're always recording. We're always recording.

Speaker 1 And we're going to miss out on an Easter Island. I was with John Melcovich, and we just were hanging, avoiding people.
And we started talking about cigarettes. And then, you know.
You needed one.

Speaker 1 Yeah. When's the last time you smoked a cigarette? I know exactly because I had to quit.
You know, I was a very heavy smoker. So in September, 20 years.
20 years. Wow.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Were you ever a heavy smoker? No, I was always a dilettante smoker. So.
Yeah, you have this, it's a very enviable, you can do everything, but you're not addict-y, right?

Speaker 1 I mean, I'm a little addicty with the gym. It's definitely a better addiction, as you know.
Yes. Yeah.
Because you have a great gym. We just perused it.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You push the sled, you pull the sled. I don't know.
Is that how you hurt your bag pulling a sled? It's fucking Zoom and FaceTime training.

Speaker 1 A two-dimensional image with a trainer. And they can't see your form.
So I'm really so over Zoom, man. Even therapy, like I did therapy on FaceTime, I just got sick of it.

Speaker 1 Now I'm guessing you were already seeing that therapist in person, right?

Speaker 1 Because I started in COVID. Oh, you started in COVID.

Speaker 1 Okay. And I started on FaceTime.
And I think that did a lot for me. It was another dude.
Yeah. I'm not super trusting of other dudes.
Yeah. And there was some distance.
And I ended up loving that.

Speaker 1 So I'm like, oh, this is great. I'm not like in a room with a man or I'm having all those weird things about being in a room with, you know, a dad.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Because the therapist is kind of your dad, right? If you have a male one. Sure, I have a female.
I have a woman. And, you know,

Speaker 1 I've got some mommy issues. So it's good.
That's probably good. It's all that transference stuff.
You're projecting onto them. Yeah, and they can be anything.

Speaker 1 It can be your girlfriend, your brother, your sister, your mother, your father, whatever.

Speaker 2 You start treating them as if you treat those people. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
They're actors. Therapists.
Yes, because they have you come in. They're like, oh, great.
I'm Sam's mom. I got to remember that.

Speaker 1 And then some other gal gal comes in and she's like, Okay, I'm the shitty sister, right? You kind of gotta code switch and be different. Yeah, you do, I guess.
I guess you have to be fasso.

Speaker 1 Well, you have to listen. Yes, another key ingredient of acting.
That's tough, especially if you've had the same client for like a decade and they're still telling you about some

Speaker 1 old broken record. So, you've been only doing a couple years.
Got it. Okay.
Yes. Yeah, I've been doing it like a while.
How many years?

Speaker 1 Since I had a bad breakup in my 20s

Speaker 1 and then I got kind of weird. I had a weird phase and then I had to go to therapy.
Like the movie Shame weird phase or not quite like that. Although I could have gone white lotus phase.

Speaker 1 I could have gone that road maybe, but not that weird. No, I got what you might call hypochondriacal, sort of neurotic.
Interesting. And it was kind of a post

Speaker 1 neuroses kind of thing because throughout my 20s, I wasn't neurotic at all. And around 29, I had this breakup with a very serious girlfriend.

Speaker 1 And then I just got real sensitive and I had to go see a shrink. You thought you were sick all the time? I got really sensitive, like car noises.
Oh, oh, oh, oh.

Speaker 2 Oh, this sounds like an anxiety disorder.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, I had that panic disorder. Ding, ding, ding.
When she worked at Soul Cycle, which you were just telling me you loved. You worked at Soul Cycle?

Speaker 2 I did the front desk. No shit.
But I got so anxious. I had to quit.

Speaker 1 No shit. Yeah, of course.
It's so fucking loud in there.

Speaker 2 You know, I'm like 25 years old and people would come out and be passing out. And it was on us to like revive them.
I was like, I don't have this.

Speaker 1 Passing out, of course. Sure.
Because they're doing like three classes in a row. They're not hydrating.
Yeah. Okay, let's go over our history real quick.
Yeah. Okay.
Groundlings, right?

Speaker 1 God, great memory. Of the people who ever came backstage after a show, you were among them.
Yeah. I want to say you were with Minnie Driver.
I came to see Minnie. Had you done idiocracy at that point?

Speaker 1 No, no, no. I had never been in anything.
I didn't have a SAG card. I didn't have an agent.
And I was already on the Sam Rockwell train.

Speaker 1 I got on very, very early and I was already very obsessed with you. That's nice of you to say.
Truly. I was like, look at this, sparkly unicorn.

Speaker 1 Meanwhile, you're a trained improvisationalist, which is a big skill.

Speaker 1 Nicotine.

Speaker 1 Oh, nicotine.

Speaker 1 I thought we were going to make a better son.

Speaker 1 Well, we're not ruling that out. It goes perfectly.
That's where it'll end. But yes, you came backstage and we had just done an improv show.
Yeah. And you were so complimentary.

Speaker 1 Again, I didn't have an agent. I was 28.
I'm like, it's never going to happen.

Speaker 1 Just you being effusive about thinking I was funny and that you had seen me be funny and I was a huge fan of yours literally bought me time.

Speaker 1 I was like, oh my God. It was like a little gift that was just how old am I? What are you saying is that I'm really old.
No, me. And then you were a kid.
And I was already a senior. Fuck that.

Speaker 1 I was 28 and didn't have a SAG card or an agent. Time was ticking.
That made my year. The fact that you had come to that show and you were so nice.
You're such a generous dude.

Speaker 1 And then a couple of years ago, we were in England visiting Kristen on on a movie. We hung out with Stanley.
And Stanley Gucci, who we had interviewed, invited us over for dinner. And you were there.

Speaker 1 And I exploded with excitement. We were cracking up.
Oh, I remember you, me and Stanley were giggling like 12-year-olds.

Speaker 1 Obnoxiously so, perhaps. Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 Do you remember that Dax did a reading of Stanley's book?

Speaker 2 At the dinner?

Speaker 1 Of course he did. Yeah.
What did I do wrong? That's scary. So you're a little traumatized from it.
What was my take? I had a take.

Speaker 2 I think you were doing a voice and you were just really doing a full reading.

Speaker 1 I was actually doing a stale impersonation now.

Speaker 2 I thought it was a big swing at a dinner.

Speaker 1 That's a big swing at a dinner, yeah. Yeah.
The thing I most remember is you telling me about a time in your youth that you went to a sex club in San Francisco. Yeah.
That was on roller skates. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Good segue to White Lotus, yeah. You said you got to this club and you're like, whoa, there's a lot going on.
There's a lot going on.

Speaker 1 Then all of a sudden this dude on roller skates rolls by and he's fucking jacking himself.

Speaker 1 he's running. That's a true story.
He was just roller skating. There was a person with a little tiny hammer and a chisel and the

Speaker 1 just abusing their genitals. What was the title? Like, what was the event? Did it have a name? Well, no, I bumped into a friend of mine from like elementary school and he said, I'm doing this thing.

Speaker 1 I got a new thing I'm doing. I got a new thing.

Speaker 2 I have a new hobby.

Speaker 1 Do you know what I'm into now? Hey, check it out. Let's upload.
No.

Speaker 1 He said, check it out. And I said, said, oh, that's kind of cool.
It was just not what I imagined, really. I thought it would be kind of sexier.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And it wasn't so sexy.
I was just like, yeah, no, this is not for me. Don't you find that where the rubber meets the road with a lot of this stuff? It's not what you were hoping for.

Speaker 1 It sounds good. Look at that.
Speaking of sex clubs. Okay, that was a trap.

Speaker 1 That was a trap. That book isn't there normally.
Oh, is that right? And I brought it in and I said to Monica, Talk about therapy.

Speaker 1 This is ointment, and I want to see if the fly fly flies into it because I have some bizarre hunch you also like crumb. Well, yeah, sure.
What's not to like?

Speaker 1 I mean, it's pretty great. Yeah, crumb's the greatest.
Okay. Okay.
Back to this dinner. The dinner was so fun.
I had so much fun. I remember laughing a lot, yeah.

Speaker 1 Another obsession of mine has been Goggins for a while. He's great.
Could you be happier that anybody's having the moment? I'm so happy. You know, and we've done Cowboys and Aliens together.

Speaker 1 You met him there? Yeah, we met on that. Okay.
I don't know if you've ever worked with a friend that closely.

Speaker 1 So when we did White Lotus, it was really cool to have a shorthand with somebody like that. But I did wonder with the White Lotus scene in particular,

Speaker 1 does being really good friends help or hurt? Because it could definitely go either way. It definitely helped because we had to play friends.
Yes. And I just could make him laugh.

Speaker 1 He could make me laugh really quickly.

Speaker 2 Was it improvis? It wasn't improvised.

Speaker 1 No, but there were a couple of little things to kind of like tiny, tiny things. Yeah.
Mike's too good a writer. You don't want to mess with it.

Speaker 2 Have so many people come up to you about that monologue more than you would have expected.

Speaker 1 It's kind of crazy, yeah, you know. And I was ambivalent because I was worried I wasn't going to be prepared because I was tired.
And I've been doing all these monologues in the South African film.

Speaker 1 Do you have a 10-page monologue in that one? Yeah, that's right. How do you know that? Because it's my job to learn about you for today.

Speaker 1 But I told you this will be the last time I know this much about you. Yes.
And that's it.

Speaker 1 And I remember I actually went to Billy Krudip, who I've gone to before, to get help on that monologue.

Speaker 1 So I was a little tuned up, but I was then worried I wasn't going to be able to get off off book in time. And then Leslie said, I'll help you.

Speaker 1 And we went on Safari and she got me off book and we saw, you know, while you're looking at animals, yeah. Yeah.
You know, it was pretty cool. Wow.
Were you in South Africa? We were in South Africa.

Speaker 1 So we were in this place called Kruger. Yeah.
You've been Safari? Yeah, Tanzania. Tanzania.
Okay. So that's not gorillas.
That's more cheetahs and elephants. Lions.
Yeah. Oh, that stuff.
So that's.

Speaker 1 That's classic stuff. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You got close and stuff, oh, yeah, terrifyingly, so terrifying, yeah. Was Leslie at ease, and you were terrified? She was at ease, I was terrified.
Same, yeah, no question.

Speaker 1 The first time you see a lion, we're in the little Jeep, and it's just Kristen and I in the driver, and all of a sudden, the lion's walking is walking.

Speaker 1 I'm like, this is really cool, this is really cool. Now it's getting really close to the thing.

Speaker 1 I'm like, I don't know about this, there's no doors, and then the fucking lion walks up, and you know, it's 24 inches away, and it turns its head and it looks me in the eyes.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, Oh my god, this thing could just jump and eat me.

Speaker 1 And Kristen is delighted and not terrified and I was terrified all the time I don't know what that says about either of you what's that phrase the gift of fear you know

Speaker 2 but then maybe you know I don't know women walk around this earth with predators everywhere

Speaker 1 we are used to it that's a very good point

Speaker 2 and now you're around a real predator that's really

Speaker 1 food chain shift that's very interesting I never thought of that yeah someone pointed out like that. A woman often gets into a small metal box with another animal that's 2x their size.

Speaker 1 That's how we live. That's an elevator ride.
And I'm like, yeah, it's totally true, man. We had a koala bear, and I was like, you know, they have like, don't they, what they famously have

Speaker 1 chlamydia. Oh, sure, yeah, they have claws, big claws.
And chlamydia.

Speaker 1 And I was like, this thing's going to eat my face and give me chlamydia. Yes.
And Leslie was just laughing at me. I thought I'm an idiot, you know? Okay, so you did that.
You worked on the monologue.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I sort of pitched some things to Mike White. He went for some of it.
And then, yeah, just went in there and did it. Shaved my head and put a tattoo on and some scars.
And that was it.

Speaker 1 It's none of our business, but how many takes, what realm of takes was that? You know, they had an earwig. I said, prepare an earwig just in case I get in trouble.
And then I didn't need it.

Speaker 1 I did in one take. Wow.
And then I think we continue to do.

Speaker 1 One takers, you know, and not break it up too much. Mike's just amazing.
You know, he's like a Petty Chaevsky kind of writer. You're tremendous in it.
Thanks.

Speaker 1 And I'm sure you've been getting a lot of love, but I hope people give Goggins the love. If we can't cut the as far as that, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 If you're on your own in a payphone giving that monologue, I think it's just a different experience. No, absolutely.
He was having a great time.

Speaker 1 He was so happy to have somebody there. He'd been kind of, you know, he was Amy Lou and they had a different thing.

Speaker 1 Their thing was more combative. And he probably needed a fucking break from that because it cannot be fun to be a dick to your co-star in every scene for months.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he was definitely having a tough time. And Walt gets very serious.
He gets very into it.

Speaker 1 And so he needed somebody to kind of like, hey, so the reason I brought him up is that we interviewed him and then I hung out with him on a Sunday. It was so fun.
And we're in the hot tub.

Speaker 1 And then just randomly, he says, and I haven't seen your scene yet. So I don't even know you're in.
This is like pre-bad airing. And somehow he says he's friends with you.

Speaker 1 And I said, oh, my God, you know, I had the most fun night ever in england with him i said and then i think i texted him too much i go i think i really came on too strong not possible and he goes no i bet he just you know he's in the clouds sometimes and i bet he doesn't even know he didn't or did respond to you and i was like okay that's really comfortable did i not respond

Speaker 1 intermittently no i always respond even with an emoji you know it's funny

Speaker 1 with that even if it's just an emoji i respond well when i was texting you yesterday i realized when i looked at the two previous texts they were green so we don't know if green You didn't get it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, what does that mean? Because I've got some stuff not going through. I sent some videos to you and Justin and didn't go through.
I think I might need some technical help.

Speaker 1 And then I want to own my own. I got a little carried away with leaving you voice messages of me just going, I bet you did you, rascal.

Speaker 1 My favorite line you've ever said in a movie. That's right.

Speaker 1 As George Bush. And so anytime I'd be thinking of it,

Speaker 1 I would just send you a voice message. I remember that.
Of me going, oh, that's right. I bet you did, you rashle.

Speaker 1 Anyhow, how are you going to respond? I love a voice memo. I love a weird voice memo, though.
Somebody just called him walkie-talkies voice memos. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Are you a voice memo person or you're not?

Speaker 2 I'm getting into it. I think it's with age.

Speaker 1 Not wanting to type. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Laziness.

Speaker 1 Well, this phone is like really small.

Speaker 2 You got an old one?

Speaker 1 Yeah, you got to like really.

Speaker 1 What year is that, bad boy? I mean, he was old.

Speaker 1 I think that's maybe what's going on.

Speaker 1 That stuff wasn't going through today.

Speaker 1 I think I tried to send you and Justin the picture of Justin a couple of times. Justin Long.
Yes, yes. Justin Long.

Speaker 1 Justin Long is also due in ripe and deserving of the same moment Goggins is having because I think there'll be a moment where people will look back and go, oh, right.

Speaker 1 He was perfect in every single thing he did. He is.
He's awesome. So I'm just flagging him as he deserves to be too Goggins, man.
I'm flagging him too. The impersonations he can do.

Speaker 1 We had him on the ball. His impersonations are incredible.
Is Matt Dillon? Yes. Matt Dillon is astounding.
Did he do Matt Dillon? He did Matt Dillon. He did a movie with Matt Dillon.

Speaker 1 He did it to Matt Dillon on a talk show. I don't think it went great.
He can do Vince Vaughan so well, who's so hard to do. I know.
I know. He's so fucking funny, Vince.
I saw him at this hotel.

Speaker 1 We met for lunch at this Four Seasons,

Speaker 1 and he starts doing this bit with the waiter. He's like, we want the special.
Can you get the special? The chef wants to give us the special.

Speaker 1 You know, the special thing. And the waiter's like, I'm sorry, sir.
Oh, no. You know, the chef asked to give us the special meal.
Oh, my God. You know, do that.
You know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 Make it right. Make it right.
Make it right. Make it right.
Make it good. Make it good with us.

Speaker 1 And he keeps saying, and the waiter doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

Speaker 1 At the end, he gets the bill. He says, it's free, right?

Speaker 1 He gets the bill, and he keeps giving the waiter the slickly.

Speaker 1 It should have been free.

Speaker 1 Oh, God.

Speaker 1 He's hysterical. Okay.
Bay Area. Yes.
1968, you arrive. Yes.
November 5th? November 5th, 1968. Okay, we welcome you.
Nixon was elected. Yes.
Oh, on that day? Yes, yes. Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 I don't know if that's fortuitous or a harbinger of bad things to come.

Speaker 1 Probably. Mom and dad are both actors.
Yes. And my dad dropped out kind of early.
My mother became a painter.

Speaker 1 And my

Speaker 1 dad did a lot of jobs. We moved to San Francisco in the tenderloin.
I don't know if you know what the tenderloin is. Kind of a sketchy.
Gnarly, right? In the 70s and 80s? Yeah.

Speaker 1 My dad had a couple of weapons pulled on him and he was mugged. And sort of after nine, he got remarried.
He had a better job, but he was a union organizer for a while. He drove a cab.

Speaker 1 And I met Harvey Milken in San Francisco when I was like eight. Really? We lived in the Castro for a bit.
We lived in the Fillmore, the Haight, you know, everywhere. He relocated to Culver City?

Speaker 1 He did. He's got Culver City and Santa Monica.
Yeah. Because his bride lives in Santa Monica.
Yeah, yeah. He met her at a Bernie Sanders rally.
Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1 They're a groovy couple. I just think that's weird to have two actor parents.
It is a little weird. Although my dad quit so early.
You never saw him. He quit when I was five, yeah.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So I don't really, although he's gotten back into acting a little bit, taking classes just for fun. And then my mom's a painter now.
She's wild. I mean, I did plays with her when I was like a kid.

Speaker 1 Yeah, she took you on stage when you were 10, did improv in the village? I mean, I wouldn't call it real improv, but it was, yeah. But she taught me the basic rules, you know, always say yes.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yes, and yes, and you're smarter than you think you are. Isn't that one of them? Be a pro at everything.
An expert, they say. So they got divorced when you were five.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they got divorced when I was five. She moved to New York City.
That was it. My dad had a lot of girlfriends, moved around a lot.

Speaker 2 So you were bopping back and forth?

Speaker 1 In the summer, I'd go visit my mom for a month, and that's how I did a play with her. Were you running around and exploring New York as a little girl? Yeah, I was.
It was pretty wild.

Speaker 1 I was talking to Zazzie Beats and her mom.

Speaker 1 Michael Pinette was on this movie movie in South Africa and Zazzie and all these great people at Juno Temple. But I remember talking to her, she lived in Chelsea.
It wasn't Chelsea back then.

Speaker 1 Her mother was from there. And I'm talking to her mother about the 70s.
And then I realized I'm Zazzi's mother's age. Yeah.
And then I was like, wow, okay, that's what's happening.

Speaker 1 I could be all their fathers. Juno, everyone.
Yeah, you're the same age as Zazi's mom.

Speaker 1 But when you're talking to Zazi, you and I are in a similar situation, which is we have our whole lives, I'm presuming, flirting with women. Sure, sure.
That's why I get out of bed. Sure, of course.

Speaker 1 Well, Zazzie and I in this cartoon are romantic. Interesting.
She's the fox, I'm the wolf. And then I'm like, wait a minute, what? Yes, hold on.
I'm how much older than your mother? What's happening?

Speaker 1 There's two themes I want to explore in this

Speaker 1 ride of ours. Let's do it.
I want to explore charm. If I have to pee in this thing, is that going to be, how's that going to go down? That'll dovetail nicely into my themes.

Speaker 1 I want to talk about charm. All right.
And I want to talk about fuel. Yes.
Yes. The fuel of life.
For me, from very young, these are parallels I've noticed when I was researching you.

Speaker 1 I know my explanation. So, dancing.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yes. Love dancing.
Dance immediately in junior high at the dances and immediately realize I'm the only boy dancing. All these girls like this.
It's a way to meet girls. That's exactly right.

Speaker 1 I mean, I was not,

Speaker 1 I'm a faker baker dancer. When I did Fawsey, I had to really learn some stuff.
Right. So my shit's really like Faker Baker.
I implore everyone to go and watch.

Speaker 1 There's these montages of you entering Fallon. Oh, yeah.
You're not. See, those are the same moves.
If you Google, if you look at it, it's just the same

Speaker 1 moves. Upping it.
I was watching it this morning, and what's so funny is you're upping it, you're upping it, you're upping it.

Speaker 1 And I was saying, I was saying out loud to Chris, I'm like, I don't know where he's going to go with the next appearance. And you come out with a fucking cane because there's nowhere to go.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that was a fluke. I stumbled into a Willy Wonka entrance by accident.
Yeah, it's definitely a way to get attention.

Speaker 1 I think that I've always pictured myself kind of like a Chris Walken build. You're sort of like that.
I always wanted to be like a lanky Tommy Hearns Chris Walken kind of. Stretch limo.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I always pictured myself that way. But actually I'm not.

Speaker 1 You know, I actually have T-Rex arms and, you know, like if I were to throw out a jab in my mind, I'm I'm Muhammad, I'm Tommy Hearns or something, but actually, no, I'm like this guy. Right.

Speaker 1 You're more sugar red. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm more like, you know, the guy Mayweather knocked out.
But so I think I have like delusions of grandeur. I don't know where that came from.

Speaker 1 But there's a stubbornness where you go, like, I refuse to accept this. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so how do I maneuver around? Because that's not the vision I have for my life.

Speaker 1 But when I look back on a lot of the actors that I admire, Nicola Cinbuccino, Da Nero, you know, they're not big guys. And I think with that

Speaker 1 comes the gift of fury.

Speaker 1 And I think that that's a good gift, you know, like a John Malkovich or somebody like that, who I just worked with, you know,

Speaker 1 and Taturo and Gary Oldman, you know, they have the gift of fury. Yes.
You're not going to accept whatever it is you've been dealt.

Speaker 2 I like the idea of you saying, I think it's very honest, just that you walk around kind of with the vision of who you are.

Speaker 2 And then sometimes you look in the mirror and it's like, oh, wow, that's actually not. I think I have that too.
It's like, oh, I think I look like that.

Speaker 2 But then I look in the mirror and it's like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 2 I better not look in the mirror anymore.

Speaker 1 I'm better off just like that.

Speaker 1 But yeah, you have to be slightly delusional to be successful. And by the way, you can infect other people's.

Speaker 1 view of you with that belief in yourself.

Speaker 1 Totally, totally. That is like, yeah, we don't like articulate or break down what are the ingredients of confidence, but that's what it is.
Like I've created a reality bubble. I've sucked you into it.

Speaker 1 And now you're not sure either if I'm a five or a nine. Exactly.
Right. Exactly.
So you, I mean, there's so many things I would love to talk about. You do go to a stoner high school.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Kind of an outwardly bound thing. Yeah, I did Urban Pioneers.
That was kind of like an outward bound. It had a reputation for being for the flunkies.

Speaker 1 And I was flunking out of high school for sure, cutting class, you know, smoking pot.

Speaker 1 And I heard about Urban Pioneers. It was supposed to be kind of rough.

Speaker 1 But the guy, Wayne McDonald, kind of changed my my life in a way because we did these like hiking trips for two weeks but the thing about the the hiking trips you had to solicit this food so you had to go to a pizza hut and ask them to give you you know 10 cans of spaghetti sauce I think the rule was you couldn't even if you had money to buy the spaghetti sauce on the fly you had to solicit so it taught you to hustle yeah yeah yeah you know what I mean

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 It was a cool lesson. He says, if you don't solicit this food, you're not going to have margarine when you want it on

Speaker 1 the trip. And you're going to need that margarine.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You'll need that loaf of bread. There's going to come a time where you're going to want that margarine.

Speaker 1 So, you know, you had to get the food, man. Yeah.
If you wanted to, like, have a marshmallow to roast. Right.
So you get the like real, real acting bug at that point.

Speaker 1 I went back to the acting program. I auditioned for.

Speaker 1 The play. I watched Malkovich and Death of a Salesman on TV, and I just decided decided to do that monologue.
I got the play, but then I got a movie. In San Francisco? In San Francisco.

Speaker 1 I got a lead in a film. Oh, first film.
And then I decided from that, with the confidence from doing the film, to go to New York and sort of pursue acting. And that's kind of what happened.

Speaker 1 I lived with my mom the first year. Then I started going to sublet to sublet, working in restaurants, and then I started getting commercials.
And I got a couple of episodics like Equalizer and Lee.

Speaker 1 You did all the shows every New York actor does when I look at your resume.

Speaker 1 all that shit nypd yeah and then i didn't know what really what the hell i was doing and i went to a summer program i did the summer program with bill he says do the two year i said ah you know i i'm very busy you know i'm like 24.

Speaker 1 he's like you know i got this colgate commercial and you know i'm doing law and or he's like just do the two year it'll go by like that just do it so i did the two-year program and changed my life and it was misner still to this day i don't i read an actor prepares stanislavsky but when people say misner i'm not positive i know what it means Did you do any Meisner Junior training?

Speaker 2 Yes, because I'd studied theater in college. And so, yeah, we had to do Meisner.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But for people who don't know what Meisner is.
Yeah, yeah. So Stella Adler, you know, Strasberg, Meisner went to Russia.
They met Stanislavski. They came back.
Then they divided.

Speaker 1 Meisner's about the what if

Speaker 1 and Strasberg was about what happened for an emotional prep if so.

Speaker 1 But Meisner's argument to Strasberg is like, well, what are you going to do if you're a heroin addict or if your character shoots yourself in the face?

Speaker 1 Like, what are you going to really shoot yourself in the face? So method,

Speaker 1 meaning Strasburg, Meisner would argue that using your imagination is more practical.

Speaker 1 Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert,

Speaker 1 if you dare.

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Speaker 1 Tell me about idiocracy. You and Justin and Maya Rudolph are fucking phenomenal.
I love that movie. And I know Judd a little bit, but

Speaker 1 how did you come up with that character? How did Justin, you guys had scenes together, right? We had no scenes together, but we hung out a bunch on the movie. That's like where we met.

Speaker 1 And we would have to go. You're hysterical.
Oh, my God. Thank you.
So, what do you do? How did you prepare for that? And I want to ask Justin the same.

Speaker 1 I had done a version of that character, Frito, on stage at the Grounds. And I was doing an episode of King of the Hill.
I got along really well with Mike Judge.

Speaker 1 And then two scripts of his were floating around. One of them was 3001 is what it was called.
I read it and I said to him, I would love to come in and read this role for Frito.

Speaker 1 But he was written as like kind of morbidly obese. And he's like, well, I kind of had someone else in mind.
You know, that wasn't, yeah, I don't know if that's the one for you.

Speaker 1 I begged him to let me come in. Yeah.
And I did Frito, this character I had already done before. And he was just like, oh, I could just hear him laughing, right?

Speaker 1 And I was like, okay, that's all I was hoping. I'm like, yeah, I'm not the dude you wrote.
It's not the right guy. But fuck, he's laughing.
And that's all I really want. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then he cast me and then i gained like 25 pounds in three weeks because the guy had to be eating fructose and all that

Speaker 1 flacherin i think he ate flacherin so god

Speaker 1 how did you come up with the character for groundlings how did you come up with that initially so god what was the impetus for that she's so mad

Speaker 1 are you mad i'm not mad at all but we do have to learn about you but that's fine let's hear all right all right i want to talk about your meisner experience no god no well no we can turn it around around on me.

Speaker 1 It's fine. But I'm just saying, it helps me.
We still have to go through your entire Meisner experience. Okay, sorry.
What do you want to know?

Speaker 1 But just quickly, Groundlings, it just came out of a suggestion from the audience. No, no.
We also wrote sketches, right? So half the show, like you came to an only improv show. Okay.

Speaker 1 But generally the show is there, the Sunday company, the Saturday company. It's all sketches.
And then you do like three improv sets during the show. But mostly it's all written.

Speaker 1 It's all Saturday Night Live like sketches. And so the first time I ever did it was with Melissa McCarthy.

Speaker 1 And we worked at a grocery store and I was a bagger and she was a cashier and we were falling in love. And you can imagine Melissa McCarthy.
That's so good. It was so fun.
Was she a dummy too?

Speaker 1 Absolutely. Yeah.
Like, I got a tape deck in my truck. You want to listen to my cassettes?

Speaker 2 She talked like that, too.

Speaker 1 She had her own fucked up. She had the female version of Free Show.
You guys just said we're going to do a...

Speaker 1 We work at a grocery store and we're falling in love. And we're stupid.
And we're, yeah, we're as stupid as it gets. And we're made for each other.
That's fucking good.

Speaker 1 She is so excited to go listen to some cassette tapes in my truck. But all of this is based on the dude in high school who always talked about his uncle who was a tow truck driver.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's where it really comes from. Wow.

Speaker 1 It's very exaggerated, but this.

Speaker 1 No, I'm.

Speaker 2 No, just say it.

Speaker 1 What is it? She just had Goggins look on her face. She was gone.
It was like a half smile. What is it? Wrap it up.
She's telling me to wrap it up. She's telling you to wrap it up.
Okay, okay.

Speaker 1 Because the show's not about it.

Speaker 2 He's normally not supposed to say out loud the thing I'm projecting, but it's kind of

Speaker 1 like that. Now that we're on camera, it's fun to call it.

Speaker 1 Anyways, this guy was just always like, My uncle has a tow truck, and I went out with him, and we hooked up a brand new trans am.

Speaker 1 Wow, that is fantastic.

Speaker 1 Real people out there. I don't know that I've ever had a new character since high school.
I just accumulated all these kids I met, and I was very numerous.

Speaker 1 The robot's new character. He has a character.

Speaker 1 He's a robot character.

Speaker 2 It's very cute.

Speaker 1 What's the robot character? I am a robot, and I always talk like this.

Speaker 1 I want to be a real boy.

Speaker 1 He wants to be a real boy. He wants to be a real boy.

Speaker 1 That's a Pinocchio story. And he's got a cold.

Speaker 1 Okay, we got to get to you. You go to New York.

Speaker 1 Because you do have this really, really interesting.

Speaker 1 section before because you're a little older like me when you finally start working consistently and you actually know okay this is going to be a viable thing because your kind of breakthrough is like 28 you did a movie where you got a lot of attention yeah well it's weird you know and this happened to my ex-girlfriend Sarita she was bartending and she'd done a movie with Denzel Washington and she got fucking recognized and she was fucking bartending yeah

Speaker 1 and I was like this is weird and then I happened to me I was busting tables

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 I got recognized for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. And I'm like, would you like some more bread, sir? You know,

Speaker 1 that's a weird experience. And you have to go back to the humbling, right? Yeah, that's really humbling.

Speaker 1 You know, there's that story about Dustin Hoffman getting in the unemployment line after shooting the graduate. Wow.
It's crazy. You know, because not everything pays, you know.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 About 28, 29, I was starting to work more as an actor. And were you busy in Labyrinth during that time? So Labyrinth is this theater started by Philip Seymour Hoffman.

Speaker 1 Well, actually, no, it was started by Paul Calderon and his wife. and Johnny Ortiz.
And then Phil came in later and I was one of the first gringos in there. And then Phil came along.

Speaker 1 And then he he kind of reinvented it with Stephen Girgas and Johnny Ortiz. Okay.
They kind of took it over. It is what it is today.
And how did you get on with Phil?

Speaker 1 Oh, Phil was a mentor and a close friend. And he directed me in a play.
You know, he was always the sober guy. It was just cheeseburgers, cigarettes, and coffee usually.
And then,

Speaker 1 you know, that snuck up on us. And he was grumpy? He was grumpy, but in an endearing way.
He had a great laugh. You know, he loved Justin.
Were the three of you somehow in like...

Speaker 1 He came up to Williamstown to direct a reading. Justin wanted to read art, and Bradley came.

Speaker 1 And Bradley was already doing a play there. And Phil said, yeah, I'll direct it.
And we're like, really? And he's like, yeah, I'll come up. I'll direct it.
He just wanted to hang out. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I remember we got in a car.

Speaker 1 You know the fart app, you know? You ever seen the fart app?

Speaker 1 You know the fart. It's the iPhone.
It makes every kind of different fart noises. So Justin hooked it up to the car speaker in Williamstown.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 wait, is this turned down?

Speaker 1 That's the brown mosquito. Brown mosquito.

Speaker 1 This is called burrito maximo.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. This is

Speaker 1 called laundry day.

Speaker 1 Now you know why it's called laundry day. So he hooked it up to the car speaker,

Speaker 1 and Phil was in the back, and he would just ask people randomly questions: hey, do you know where the pizza hut? And they go, yeah, it's right. And he'd just push the button.

Speaker 1 And it was, you know, because the car speaker was really loud. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And Phil had this very infectious laugh, and he would laugh so fucking hard.

Speaker 1 Everyone was kind of intimidated by Phil, but he was a brilliant director. He directed us in a play and he was the things he would say.

Speaker 1 Eric Pogozzi and I had a scene together and he would say these things to us that I never forgot. Eric and I had a scene where he was the devil and I was Judas.
It was a funny scene.

Speaker 1 So it got a lot of laughs.

Speaker 1 And Phil was like, you know, I know you guys get a lot of, you're getting a lot of laughs and that's all great but i kind of want to i want to make the audience uncomfortable you know that's what theater is about and if you want to get laughs that's cool but you know he says sam you're playing judas iscariot you know he's a danger to himself and others

Speaker 1 when you come out you're drunk

Speaker 1 i want you to make the audience a little uncomfortable. I want you to, like, I want them to like maybe want to leave.
Be a little scared. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that was a great thing to say to an actor because it's kind of an impossible goal. Right.
So, I mean, Phil had a way of really inspiring you. Back to the charm thing.

Speaker 1 I heard you tell a story about Bill. So the acting teacher, the Meisner teacher.
Yeah, yeah. He was an infamous teacher.
Like, very famous. And that's where I met my coach, Terry Knickerbocker.
Right.

Speaker 1 Which is the most delightful story ever in Chobiz. I love this story.
And we'll get to it. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 But you talk about Bill at one point basically saying, like, you're fucking lazy oh yeah you said that to me yes and this is back to the charm thing yeah no one's gonna feel bad for anyone who's charming i'm not asking for that yeah but i definitely think you have to be more self-policing if you're charming if you can kind of get away with murder that's interesting because you can get away with being lazy sure And so it's weirdly like this wonderful gift you get given, but can also spell your demise.

Speaker 1 It was a good lesson. And he said, yeah, that's so lazy.
Like pull it together. And it had a big effect on me.

Speaker 1 Around this time, when you get the first thing, you're 29-ish, in the 90s still, you had met Terry. Terry Knickerbocker had filled in and taught some of the classes.
That's right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And you got along really well with him. Yeah.
And you asked him to help you on this audition. Yeah.
But this relationship you developed with Terry, you have not

Speaker 1 used him for a project since. Yeah, that's right.
Yeah. That's a very special relationship.
That's like 26 years of doing that. I read an interview with him talking about you guys working together.

Speaker 1 My understanding of what you guys do is even for the white lotus thing that we all saw. Yeah.
You sit down with this thing. You're not an addict, right?

Speaker 1 So we start with the fact that you don't, you, Sam Rockwell, doesn't know what it's like to be an addict. You're also not a Buddhist or an Eastern philosopher.
No.

Speaker 1 So you and Terry's job is to start anchoring these details. Particularism, what is it called? Yeah, particularizations as if substitutions.
Sure. So you and Terry have done this for 26 years.

Speaker 1 And I'm assuming when you're going through it together, you're exploring your own history and things that you can attach emotionally that resemble the thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so, these sessions with Terry have to be really therapeutic, no? Oh, yeah. And he's a big therapy guy, too.
Are you free associating when you work with Terry? Absolutely.

Speaker 1 And then letting everything out. Like, oh, wow, that's weird.
That does remind me of blank. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 Like, very intimate.

Speaker 1 So, is it variance with you? Say Terry might know you in a way better than any person alive. Yes, and I him.
Now, as a super fan of yours, as I said I was, and I followed everything. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I had periods as a fan of yours where I was like, oh no, why isn't this guy getting what he deserves? What is your emotional ride through all the highs and lows?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I've had some, a lot of my shit's been afterlife. Like I saw Moon and I was like, well, here we go, motherfuckers.
It's on. What a performance.

Speaker 1 Jesse james galaxy quest had afterlife i thought that was going to be like ghostbusters you know we went to the premiere yeah yeah and it did okay but like jesse james bombed even american beauty beat out the green mile

Speaker 1 but i've been lucky a couple you know like vice and charlie's angels and stuff like that but they're like moments and then there's these lows and then there's these highs and these lows and then three billboards comes out and then you win an academy award and again to me at that if i'm you yeah and you're 49 at that point maybe that's right yeah yeah yeah did you have a lot of these moments where it was like okay well finally i can just take a breath and it's established and i'm safe i mean every day you know you're like ah

Speaker 1 can i just relax yeah when are we gonna close a little bit as you know as you get older taking the working out stuff for example you got to work even harder you got to memorize lines even harder as you get older I think you want to feel safe.

Speaker 1 You want to go, oh, I have finally earned the never safe, as you know, right? You're never fucking safe. It's all an illusion of stuff.

Speaker 1 it's all an illusion that is you're such an artist i don't say that lightly i don't think of many people as artists you're such an artist i could have this fantasy where it's like oh no he's never given a he finds another interesting thing to do he focuses on that and then another interesting thing some of them pop some of them don't he doesn't care he probably isn't motivated by money like i can create that fantasy about you but i don't know if that's actually the reality I'm ambitious, whatever that means, you know, like you're ambitious to do good work.

Speaker 1 But I will say I have turned down money and I have said no.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's the only power you have is to say no. Is that hard for you to do? Of course.
I was unable to do it. When they threw money at me, I always said yes.

Speaker 1 And then I paid the price ultimately for that. Did you? You feel you paid the price for that? Yeah, because I knew I shouldn't do a thing originally.
That's why I said no to the beginning with.

Speaker 1 And then they threw enough money at me and I said, yeah, I'll do it for that. What if I never work again? I need that money.

Speaker 1 All the rules have changed, too. I think sometimes you can be too precious, too, you know.

Speaker 2 What do you hope people,

Speaker 2 if they had to finish this sentence about you as an actor, let's say you're dead, okay?

Speaker 1 Sorry, for a long way. Yes, Monica, I'm dead.

Speaker 2 And people say he was blank.

Speaker 1 God, I had a good answer for that. Don't we always have a good answer on your gravestone kind of thing? And then I always forget.
I think I know what you would want. What, what's that?

Speaker 1 Either he was adventurous. Yeah, that's pretty good.
I like that. Which is also

Speaker 1 slashed too, right? Slash brave. Yes, slash brave.

Speaker 2 Or dangerous.

Speaker 1 I don't think you do you want to.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Yeah, well, every actor needs a little bit of danger, I think.

Speaker 2 What about you as a person?

Speaker 1 Forget that. Me as a person? Yeah.
Well, you know, I'm a pretty courteous, I'm a nice guy, but I mean... That's a good question.
I don't know the answer to that. What would you want?

Speaker 1 He was so playful. Oh, that's pretty good.
I'm here to play. I came to this planet to play.
And the more we can play, the better. Absolutely fucking lootly.
Yeah. Because it's a beatdown.

Speaker 1 Everyone you love is going to die. All the shit's going to happen.
Have you ever seen Manny Pacquiao hit the mitts with Freddy Roach? He's smiling. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 The relationship with those guys is really interesting. Freddy Roach is so fascinating.
Freddy Roach is amazing. And they're kind of patting that boxer on the head like they're kid.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 It's play somebody. It's play.
You had a fun thing you were talking about in an interview. You were saying, like, people are so shocked when actors act.
Yes, that's a good topic, actually.

Speaker 1 I find that fascinating. I totally agree with you, but Christian Bale, like, that's a shocker.
Why is that a shocker? Yeah.

Speaker 2 When they act out on set, you're saying.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you pay somebody to essentially be a child. Yes.
And then you're shocked when they act like a child. It's like,

Speaker 1 what do you expect, man? One minute you're laughing, you're crying. You're like a little infant.
You're being paid to be an infant. Yes.

Speaker 1 And then cut, and then somehow magically you feel like you did on Saturday morning. It's a little preposterous that that's the expectation.
It's insane.

Speaker 1 I was doing Poltergeist, you know, it's basically an abduction film where they abduct your daughter, but it's a ghost. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I did some scene where I was crying about my daughter and then I couldn't turn it off and I had to go.

Speaker 1 No, and that happens a lot. Yeah.
You go on my table. Let it all hang out.
Sometimes that happens. Add in.
I think the thing people don't necessarily realize is that everyone else's job is.

Speaker 1 mechanical enough that it can be done. And you had a rehearsal.
So camera's already done the dolly move 12 times. They have marks.
They have all their settings. They're going to do a good job.

Speaker 1 You're going to fail at your job many times in front of these hundred people. That's right.
You're going to fail over and over again. Someone's going to come talk to you.
By the way, they fail too.

Speaker 1 You know, it's out of focus.

Speaker 1 But that's why after you failed eight times and you finally are getting it on nine and a guy drops a flag into the shot, it's a bummer because you're coming from fear so often.

Speaker 1 You think that was the time. Absolutely.
You're coming from fear. Allison Lohman on Mastic Men, she shot a scene.
She had to cry and cry, and then it was out of focus, and they had to go back.

Speaker 1 And that happens. Violet Davis did that on Doubt with Phil and Meryl Streep.
That happened to her. She had to shoot something again.
Very emotional.

Speaker 1 How did you get on with Nick Cage in that match, Dick Man? We had a great time. I feel like you two are both equally weird in a way that could either be flammable or really wonderful.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, it's funny you mentioned Vince and Justin and I, we were hanging out. Like we were doing these Elvis impersonations a lot.

Speaker 1 We would stay up late and do this improv that Elvis was at the parole board or something, and we would switch to take turns playing Elvis. Yeah, yeah.
And Vince was always the best Elvis.

Speaker 1 And at the time, so I started doing basically Vince's version of Elvis for Nick Cage, and he had just gotten with Elvis' daughter. Oh,

Speaker 1 and he's obsessed with Elvis. Obsessed, right? Yeah.
And he married her on the film, during the film. They broke up.

Speaker 1 I realized, oh, maybe this is not cool, but he was cool with it. He was laughing.

Speaker 1 We got to talk about bad guys too. I love bad guys.
Bad guys one is awesome. Yeah, it's fun.
As animation stuff, it's fun. Yeah, the premise of part two is they're now good guys.

Speaker 1 They're now good guys. They're on probation, and then hijinks ensue.
Yeah. And you have to be bad guys again.
Yes. Yeah.
And it's all Danielle's fault.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we can't name it bad guys and not have you guys be bad. Yeah.
Okay. You talk about walking a lot.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Who are your favorites right now? Who are you horny for right now? Christopher Walken always.

Speaker 1 Speaking of horned up, I forgot about the horned up elephant on the safari who almost killed us. Oh, tell me.

Speaker 1 He was in heat, I guess, apparently, because everything was a little scary, but pretty pleasant elephants.

Speaker 1 And then on the way to the airport, this very angry elephant came and they said, well, he's in heat. Was he dripping from the ears and shit?

Speaker 1 We didn't get that close, thank God, but he was coming towards the car. Yeah.
And apparently he couldn't find a mate. He was tearing down trees.

Speaker 2 Oh, no, he's like an incel.

Speaker 1 He was all horned up. He's an incel.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. He's a 10,000-pound incel.
He's a elephant. Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, he was angry. But yeah, Chris Walken, John Malkovich, Juno Temple's fantastic.
Oh, what a monster. You know, Pena.
I had a great time with Pena. He's so good.

Speaker 1 I read the monologue with Pena, actually. We were in South Africa, and he was like, you got to do this.

Speaker 2 I have a personal question about Leslie because she just came up and it just made me think, first of all, how did you guys meet? I don't know if I know this story.

Speaker 1 We met at the Chateau. It's so Hollywood.
It was Chateau Marman.

Speaker 1 She likes that.

Speaker 2 I love that's a meat cue. Did you get the bolognese?

Speaker 1 That's a meat cue.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 we used to to eat the bolognese. Yeah.
Do they still have that there?

Speaker 2 Yeah, they do.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we met in the lobby. And back then, you know, it was a little sketchy.
And

Speaker 1 there was a guy named Will, I think, and he introduced us. I knew I knew her from somewhere.
It was like that Dreamweaver moment. We saw each other, eye contact.

Speaker 1 And then I realized it was Talladega and stuff. And then I heard she studied at Bill's studio.
Oh.

Speaker 1 And so I was like, oh, thank God she's not a shitty actress.

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 1 Because, you know, I like this girl. So

Speaker 1 18 years. You're 18.
Is it 18? Yeah. It's impressive.
Impressive. You too, right? Yes.
But you travel so much. Extra impressive, I think.
But we don't have kids, but we have a dog.

Speaker 1 And you live in New York? We live in New York.

Speaker 2 And it was a choice. No kids is a choice.

Speaker 1 That's a choice, yeah. She just wanted dogs, and I was like, all right, let's do the dogs.

Speaker 2 We'll stick with the dogs. We'll stick with the dogs, yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, my only failure in this is I know there's something juicy with mom, but we do as I know, I can feel it. I know there's something really.
There's always something juicy with mom.

Speaker 1 I mean, we need to tell us. I mean, look at this.

Speaker 1 Sorry, one last question. You did Confessions of a Dangerous Mind.
Yes. Again, this is before you came to see me in the Growlings.
I don't know what to do.

Speaker 1 Which, by the way, didn't do well initially, and George killed it. Yes, great fucking movie.
You're phenomenal in it.

Speaker 1 So, for people who don't know, it's based on an autobiography by Chuck Barris, who was the host of The Gong Show. Did you ever watch The Gong Show? You're too young for that.
Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, great.

Speaker 1 It's as game showy as it gets. It's the best show of all time.
I want to find it on YouTube, yeah.

Speaker 1 And the host of the show, Chuck Barris, yeah, wrote a book claiming he was a CIA operative, and then he had assassinated.

Speaker 1 And then Charlie Kaufman took the book and adapted it into an amazing screenplay. And he stands by this story that he assassinated people while being a host of the gong show.
He does.

Speaker 1 You hung out with him a ton. A ton.

Speaker 1 George gave me a video camera and said, just go live with the guy. Wow.
And he was open to that. Oh, he loved it.
And then Mary, his wife. Yeah, we hung out tons.
He loved Les Paul. The guitarist?

Speaker 1 Yeah, he loved the duo. And then he would air guitar.
And he did all the lines for me. Are you allowed to say what your kind of conclusion was? We don't think he really killed him.

Speaker 1 He had a nervous breakdown. Okay.
And felt probably that, although he created the dating game and he did a lot of cool shit, maybe didn't feel good about things. And he probably made stuff up.

Speaker 1 But then again, Sometimes I wonder, because sometimes he would say stuff arresting and you'd kind of go, wait a minute.

Speaker 2 I mean, whether it's true or not, he probably believed it.

Speaker 1 I think he did. I'd say, how many people did you kill? And he'd say,

Speaker 1 about 10 or 12. And I'd say, really? Wow.
You say, how many people did you kill? Yeah. We got into it.
One of the best scenes we had to cut. I think it's deleted scenes.
Fred Savage plays the bellhop.

Speaker 1 There's these great scenes with the bellhop that are just amazing. And I'm like naked with a beard.
It's some of my favorite stuff. It's just the movie was too long, but we had a good time with that.

Speaker 1 Have you heard Elvis talk about the bellhops? No. What happened with the bellhops? There's a great bit of footage online.
Of course, he talks about bellhops. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's on stage and he has missed some shows, and it's at the height of people accusing him of being an opiate addict, which, of course, he was. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And he goes, I just want to tell everybody, I'm healthy and I'm not doing drugs. I'm doing karate.
And you know,

Speaker 1 he goes,

Speaker 1 all this comes from those, those little bellhops, those little rats running around. He's got this whole...
Is this at the end? Yeah, yeah. He might even be laying down on stage on his back telling us.

Speaker 1 But he's talking about the bellhops, and they're the ones that spread the rumors about him. These little bellhops.
And you,

Speaker 1 wow. Yeah, it's great.
That's online. You could watch him.
Haven't you always wanted to play? Remember Kurt Russell as Elvis? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's just a fascinating character.

Speaker 1 My brother and I. We're obsessed with him when we were little kids.
My brother's two, yeah. And we would call when we were at a hotel.

Speaker 1 We would call the front desk over and over again because we thought it was so funny that Elvis would shoot his TV sets in hotel rooms. And we just were like, what else did he do?

Speaker 1 So we would call down to the front desk at like 10 and 15 and go, this is the king in 304. I accidentally filled up a bathtub with a lot of sausage.

Speaker 1 Could you send somebody up to get all this sausage? And it's just like we try to think of insane things we could call and say it happened in the hotel room. The banana cocoa puff sandwich or whatever.

Speaker 1 You got to see Vince's Elvis. Well, everybody,

Speaker 1 see Bad Guys 2. That's out August.
Yes. You're a delight.
I told mom. You guys are a delight.
I saw you. You're a ravishing delight.
Calendar, and I was giddy. I'm giddy.
I'm horny for you.

Speaker 1 I'm horny for you, pal. I'm attracted to you, and I'm so glad you.
And how horny are we for Stanley 2, Chi? Come on. Oh,

Speaker 1 we love Stanley. All right.
Well, Rockwell, this has been so fun. Thanks.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 Anyway, take them sausages and my best too.

Speaker 1 All right. Meanwhile, everyone see bad guys too.
Check it out, man.

Speaker 1 Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert.

Speaker 1 If you dare.

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Speaker 1 We are supported by Quince. So I'm standing in my closet the other day and I realize I'm reaching for the same three things over and over again.

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Speaker 1 This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. So many of us are really impacted by the colder seasons when it gets dark so much earlier and the days feel shorter than ever.

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Speaker 1 He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. They got Monica's here.
She's got to let him have the facts.

Speaker 2 We have this very special guest.

Speaker 1 We have the most special guest. My grandson Groot is here.
And

Speaker 1 there's an explanation for this. I don't want people to think I'm now someone who travels around.

Speaker 2 Or you're exploiting him.

Speaker 1 I don't want anyone to think I'm exploiting him or trying to get ratings, although obviously this will be a ratings boom because he's so charismatic and cute. Yeah.
And

Speaker 1 but the reason reason he had to join us for the fact check, I posted a picture of Groot on Instagram doing a driving lesson in the truck.

Speaker 1 And I think the perspective of him, because the camera is right in front of him and I'm in the deep back,

Speaker 1 the comments are almost unanimously, oh my God, Groot is humongous.

Speaker 1 How did he get lost?

Speaker 1 How big was the bag holding him? And how would you lose this bag?

Speaker 1 To the degree I was like, I think people think he's three feet tall now because of the perspective of the the photo yeah so last night we were in bed and I asked Delta if it would be okay if Groot came on a fact check proved his size yes to demonstrate his actual size and she talked to him and he said yeah he's super excited okay and so he had three different outfits that he was debating between and we landed on this one

Speaker 1 yeah i'm gonna move the bag so he has a little bag he's a little his little gelson's bag well i I can't wait to show you what's inside his bag.

Speaker 1 Also, he has a Stanley. He has his own Stanley.

Speaker 1 And it says Detroit, Michigan on it.

Speaker 2 How did he get that?

Speaker 1 I don't know, but he knows it. I guess he knows his granddad's from Michigan or his grandma.

Speaker 2 They have both.

Speaker 1 But he has his own Stanley that says Detroit, Michigan on it. Yeah, and he has this incredible.

Speaker 2 He has a great outfit on.

Speaker 1 He does. He has little

Speaker 1 coveralls like me. What are they called? What am I wearing?

Speaker 1 Oh, overalls. Overalls.
Yeah. Yeah.
Because if I unbutton,

Speaker 1 I don't want to unbutton. He's wearing a sweater.
Delta was very specific about what he was supposed to wear.

Speaker 1 But I can just show you. It's overalls.

Speaker 2 It's overalls with some frill.

Speaker 1 Yep. And beautiful red overalls, and then a gorgeous cardigan sweater over that.
Yep. And he has his cool shoes on.
And he has his Stanley cup. And then, do you want to know what's in his bag? Yeah.

Speaker 2 He has a tiny bag from Gelson's, which is an LA grocery store. Yep.

Speaker 1 He has his Mac so he can do some work. He has a little tiny Mac, his size.

Speaker 1 And it's a real Mac. It looks just like a Mac.
And

Speaker 1 are you ready for this? Yeah. I didn't even know that this was his favorite book.
Hogwarts. It's a miniature Harry Potter.
It's a Harry Potter book.

Speaker 1 Groot loves Harry Potter. Of course, Groove loves Harry Potter.

Speaker 1 What a sweet book. Isn't he the sweetest?

Speaker 2 Yes, I love Groo.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's so special. Yeah.
And if you want at any point to have him with you, just say the word.

Speaker 2 We got in a little fight earlier because I asked if I could hold Groot, and you said we could both hold Groot.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I said, but you always get to hold Groot. Why don't I get to hold Groot?

Speaker 1 And you want it the whole time. Yeah.
Yeah. You didn't want to share Groot.

Speaker 2 No, I don't get enough time with Groot.

Speaker 1 No, because I don't like to share.

Speaker 2 Well, not when I don't get any other time. And we have a little reward for him that Delta made for when he's done

Speaker 2 up for his appearance. It's a Groot Beer Float.

Speaker 1 A Groot Beer Float.

Speaker 2 That she made. And if you aren't watching,

Speaker 2 you have to turn this on YouTube right now.

Speaker 1 To see the Groot Beer Float. To see this incredible.

Speaker 2 She made it out of maple syrup and milk.

Speaker 1 He has an entire miniature world. Yes.
I mean, he's got his own computer and his Hogwarts book.

Speaker 2 It's incredible.

Speaker 2 I want to be him.

Speaker 1 I do too.

Speaker 1 I said to her last night when she was trying on his different outfits, I said, look, when I come back in my next life, I would love to be Groot and be under your care because he gets spoiled.

Speaker 1 Do you have any interesting stories?

Speaker 2 Because I do. You do?

Speaker 1 Okay, me too.

Speaker 2 Let's hear yours. I have a few stories.
Okay.

Speaker 2 I think I'd like to hold Groot for this story. Okay, great.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Come here, Groot.

Speaker 1 Come here, Groo.

Speaker 1 Come here.

Speaker 1 Put a Stanley over here.

Speaker 2 In case he gets thirsty.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Just have a little bit. Okay.

Speaker 2 Let's put it here so it's close. Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Now,

Speaker 1 this is like practice, Monica. This could be the tipping point for you.

Speaker 2 Why don't I just get a group?

Speaker 1 You might want to just get a crew. Yeah.
It seems to be very God. He's smiling right at me.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is preferred. I can't even believe I was fighting to hold him because it's equally as fun just to see him.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he's so cute to look at.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's so happy.

Speaker 2 Anyway, so

Speaker 1 I have,

Speaker 2 I had an ethical dilemma.

Speaker 1 Ooh, I like ethical dilemmas.

Speaker 2 So Callie and I went to a store, as we do. We shop.
Yeah. And we went and got lunch after.
And we were on 3rd Street, which isn't that close. We're not there a lot.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 So I guess I'm not, I don't know why that's important. To me, for some reason, it's important.
I was out of sorts.

Speaker 1 I've been there non-stop. Just sim.
I would never go to 3rd Street in my real life. Yeah.
But I have to take Lincoln there

Speaker 1 several times during the weekend.

Speaker 2 Yes. I guess I'm just, I was a little out of sorts because I wasn't in my normal spot.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And we have lunch and we're walking back to our cars. And there is an unhoused woman.

Speaker 1 Oh my, this is impossible because my story also involves this, but go ahead.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 There was an unhoused woman. I mean, there was multiple unhoused people that we passed, but there was one specific woman who was on the opposite side of the street and just, you know, screaming

Speaker 2 nonsensical words and angry?

Speaker 1 Or because there's many versions of the screaming. Sometimes it's really quite angry.
And sometimes it's just like they're talking to someone that can't hear them. Exactly.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So angry, yes, angry,

Speaker 2 but kind of hard to tell. If you just glance at her, you probably, you might not know she was.
unhoused or dealing with a mental issue, which she clearly was both.

Speaker 2 So anyway, we cross the street and then all of a sudden, she is walking towards us. She locks on to you guys and is

Speaker 2 screaming at us.

Speaker 2 And that, for people who don't live in LA and don't encounter a lot of unhoused people, that's not normally the case.

Speaker 2 So, they are often like screaming or making noise or talking, and they're but they're in their own world.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 2 and they're never normally

Speaker 2 when they're in that state of mind engaging with you.

Speaker 2 So this was very weird. She was, she was looking right at us and she was talking to us like we had become the enemy.

Speaker 1 Oh, oh, wow. Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 Okay. And I.

Speaker 1 How old was she, roughly?

Speaker 2 I would say 40.

Speaker 1 Okay, so roughly your age. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay. Maybe 42 or something.

Speaker 1 Okay, so quite a bit older than you.

Speaker 2 A lot older.

Speaker 2 She is beelining towards us, screaming, screaming, fuck you, fuck you.

Speaker 2 And she's so mad. She is so mad.
She you want to fight?

Speaker 1 Oh my God. Whoa.
Yeah. This is your nightmare.

Speaker 2 I know. Yeah.
And I,

Speaker 2 I, I, this is my nightmare mixed with, I'm pretty actually weirdly good in these situations of clicking into how to, I, I don't freeze. I'm surviving this, you know?

Speaker 2 And she is, she is gunning at me and Callie was like, okay, okay. Like she was starting, she was kind of engaging with her, like, okay, okay.

Speaker 1 Callie's a little bit more like me. No, no, she's like you.

Speaker 2 I think she's like neither. Like, she,

Speaker 2 she's not gonna confront that person, okay?

Speaker 2 But she's also like one time in college, her and I were walking in the dark, and there was like kind of some crazy guys like driving by, and they turned around in their car.

Speaker 2 And I just grabbed her, and like, we

Speaker 2 ran her into this like hooded area. Uh-huh.
So I take charge.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 She was just going to stand there.

Speaker 1 Okay. Okay.

Speaker 2 So, so then she's coming at me and I

Speaker 2 left turn and sort of run into this laundrat.

Speaker 1 Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 And I assumed that Callie was either

Speaker 1 you left her on her own.

Speaker 2 I assumed she was either with me coming

Speaker 2 or because I was like diverting the attention away that she could just run forward, run away.

Speaker 1 Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 And then neither of those things happened. She didn't run.
And then the woman, as when I turned, she turned and went after Callie and was calling her the N-word.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Screaming the N word.

Speaker 1 Callie just for the record is extremely white. Yes.
Throwing it out.

Speaker 2 That's right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And so I'm just in the laundromat feeling like I force majeured.

Speaker 1 Force majeure is when

Speaker 1 an event that is biblical or Mother Nature.

Speaker 2 No, you know the movie Force Majeur?

Speaker 1 Oh, no, I don't.

Speaker 2 Yes, you do. It's the one with the avalanche.

Speaker 1 Oh, yes.

Speaker 2 It's a movie, Swedish movie called Force Majeur, where a family is on a mountain and

Speaker 2 an avalanche, and the dad ditches the family.

Speaker 1 Not only does he ditch, he kind of steps over one of the kids to run away. Yeah.

Speaker 2 They don't die.

Speaker 1 Right. It doesn't hit anyone.

Speaker 2 It doesn't hit anyone. So then they all have to get back together knowing that the dad just did that.
Okay. So I feel like I forced Majeor to her.

Speaker 1 Okay. That makes a lot more sense.
And

Speaker 2 I told her, because then all of a sudden she pokes her head over to the laundromat window and like starts waving. So I come out and I was like, did you go into somewhere?

Speaker 2 She's like, no, she just ran after me and started calling me the N-word. And I was like, why'd you? And then I felt really guilty.
And she told me not to feel guilty.

Speaker 2 But it really, it really, I haven't been able to stop thinking about. I don't know if Groove should have heard this.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, it's a great story that he needs to know about his aunt Monica

Speaker 1 I'll never leave you he needs to hear these so that he'll know when it's time this kind of situation happens to him

Speaker 1 He's already heard it played out. So he might decide A that he likes that and they'll already have a game plan or he might decide oh, she regretted that I'm gonna make sure I always grab my friend.

Speaker 1 I didn't

Speaker 1 what you just I'm just

Speaker 2 parodying what exactly exactly what you know I'm just saying I feel guilty but she said you don't need to it was a bad it was where did she end up like how long were you in this laundromat

Speaker 1 like

Speaker 1 not that long a minute or two yeah okay so she just carried on

Speaker 1 did she didn't like get into

Speaker 2 I really felt like I really felt as soon as I entered the laundromat like I was in some sort of movie oh uh-huh yeah because it was an extreme situation

Speaker 1 could only be happening in a movie yeah and then you end up in this laundromat where there's like and then you're in everywhere, everywhere all the time.

Speaker 2 And there's two people just sitting there kind of like looking at me because I ran in like all like

Speaker 1 a guy with a knife was chasing you.

Speaker 2 And I was like, That was crazy.

Speaker 1 There's a crazy and you start talking to strangers to them, but they're now you're her. Well, they all ran, they ran next to her to the dry cleaner.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was wild, but yeah, she told me not to.

Speaker 2 I really think

Speaker 2 my fast thinking was, we got to get out of this person's.

Speaker 1 What's the closest she was to you?

Speaker 2 Really close.

Speaker 1 What's really close? One foot, 10 feet, 25 feet?

Speaker 2 Where your knee is.

Speaker 1 Okay, so six feet. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. If my head was here, my feet would touch your face, I think.
Right.

Speaker 2 So she's charging, charging. By the time she gets to your like knee or calf is when I bolt to the left.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I'm out of here.
Okay. Fight or flight and it was flight.

Speaker 2 It was flight, but it was also like, Callie, go.

Speaker 1 Right. Now, so now you're kind of resentful at Callie, too.
Well, I'm like, feel maybe guilty and resentful. Yeah, but sure, sure.

Speaker 2 Like, take care of yourself. Go into a location.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But you bounced, she stayed there.
And then the gale obviously didn't close the gap entirely and touch Callie, right? She didn't touch her. No, she didn't.
Okay. So last night.

Speaker 1 I'm going to say we, but really Kristen. Kristen has, she wants things to be recycled in a particular way where they don't really just put it in a landfill.

Speaker 1 There's a service you you can use in LA where you have a box and you put all this recycling, they actually take it to certified places that turn into park benches or whatever the heck the thing is.

Speaker 1 And so it's this

Speaker 1 box that's probably like 18 inches wide by 18 inches deep by 18 inches tall, maybe 24 inches tall. So it's a good size metal box.
And it sits in front of our house with those items in it.

Speaker 1 And then they pick them up in these bags. So Kristen comes in and she goes, a homeless dude took the box and he's on the bus stop bench.
Okay.

Speaker 1 And I need to get it back.

Speaker 1 And I go, okay, yeah, I'll go get it. And she goes, well, but you can't go out there because there's a paparazzi out there.
Oh. And I'm like, oh my God,

Speaker 1 all of a sudden there's a lot going on.

Speaker 1 I'm like, where's the paparazzi? And this is an age-old debate. I get it.
It's frustrating to live with me. Like, it's not sufficient.
You can't just tell me I can't do something.

Speaker 1 I got to like know exactly why I can't do it. This is annoying part of me.
So now I kind of want to see the paparazzi.

Speaker 1 so i'm not trying to look over the fence and she's like what what do you do i told you what's going on why do you not you know yeah that passes everything's groovy and i have ordered food so now when i get the food now we're going on 30 minutes later when i get the food sure enough there's a dude with a huge telephoto lens like you know 20 feet away

Speaker 1 talking to the delivery guy and everything and um i'm like oh god because yes i cannot go get a box back from a homeless person no while a paparazzi is taking photos god knows what people's assumption of that scenario would be.

Speaker 1 So suffice to say, a good hour and a half goes by before the paparazzi guy leaves in front of the house.

Speaker 1 So now I'm like, okay, I got to go get that box. She really wants this box.
Now, side note, maybe Rob will understand this. You're not watching Mobland, right?

Speaker 1 God, I want you to watch it so bad. It's so good.
But Tom Hardy's job is he works for a criminal family and he has to clean up all the shit that goes wrong. And he just says, yes, I'll go handle it.

Speaker 1 And he just does it very man a few words and he just and he handles everything. He fix everything.

Speaker 2 That's like on you, the show.

Speaker 1 That's like the TV show, you

Speaker 1 okay?

Speaker 1 So I go outside, look at the park bench, not the park bench, the bus stop. He's not there.
Okay. Like, fuck, I got to get this box.
So now I get in the car and now I start driving around.

Speaker 1 And I'm driving around for a while. And at some point, I'm like, oh, I'm like Tom Hardy.
Like, I got to get this box. It's somewhere in the city.

Speaker 1 God knows, but I'm not coming home until I find this box. Okay.
I'm driving all the way down to the 101. I'm on Hollywood Boulevard.
I'm on all the sides.

Speaker 2 You're looking for him specifically.

Speaker 1 I'm looking for the box. I've got to get the box back.
Okay.

Speaker 1 And the metal box. Right.
I'm driving around for a while. I'm like, I got my hazards on at times because there's a lot.

Speaker 1 There's, as you know, in LA, there's a lot of people to look at to see, oh, do they have the box?

Speaker 1 Alta say, I eventually come upon him, see a guy on another bus stop bench, and I look, oh, there's the box.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm Tom Hardy.
I found the box. Like, I've been driving around for a long time and I didn't give up.
And I found the box.

Speaker 1 I want to exaggerate so bad.

Speaker 2 Do the real thing.

Speaker 1 20 minutes. Okay.
That is a long time. I will say I think a lot of people would have given up.
Yeah. So I went in the immediate area and was going, you know, and then I went.

Speaker 1 So then I just go, I go up to the guy on and I go, hey, brother, that's my box I got to get back. And he's immediately nice.
He's like, oh, sorry. And I go, yeah, no problem.

Speaker 1 I grabbed the box and he's like, oh, I have my stuff. Can I get my stuff up? Now I'm speaking a lot more coherently than he was, but I'm like, yeah, yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 So, you know, it's still got all the bags of recycling stuff. And we go through that.
And then there's weed pipes and all kinds of other things. Right.
Just a bunch of stuff.

Speaker 1 What does he put in there? A bunch of Ziploc bags with God knows what. And he got his stuff back.
And then I gave him 20 bucks. And then I got the box and I came home and I felt like such a hero.
Wow.

Speaker 1 I really did. I felt like I was Tom Hardy.
My wife needed this box. It was somewhere in LA.
I found it and I did it without completely without incident.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 1 And, you know, as I'm driving around, I'm anticipating all the many outcomes of this. It could be I say, hey, that's my box.
He says, fuck you. It's not my box.
I'm coming home with the box. Trust me.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And I, what I loved about it is it was like, I'm willing to participate in any option. I want the nice option.

Speaker 1 And it was the nice option. And it felt quite good.

Speaker 2 That is good. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Cause he got 20. I got the box back.
Everyone was happy. And it was an adventure.
Great. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Isn't that funny that both of us had incidents?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah, it is.

Speaker 2 It's unfortunate.

Speaker 1 What's crazy is how completely normalized it is if you live here.

Speaker 1 Cause I'm thinking if I was still in Milford, Michigan, listening to the story, like the notion that I would daily be running as someone screaming at the top of their lungs, obscenities and racial slares, which is just like standard fucking business.

Speaker 2 It is, it is,

Speaker 2 I know. I was driving by the gas station the other day, and there was a woman there, just standing, you know, just standing, talking to herself.
And I barely know, you know, I barely noticed.

Speaker 2 And then I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We are,

Speaker 2 we, we are so desensitized to

Speaker 2 have to. It's not our, it's not like a fault of ours.

Speaker 1 It would kill you otherwise. Yes, exactly.
Yeah, you really don't have a choice. You're kind of like.

Speaker 2 Or you have to move. Like you either, yeah, it's really, but I saw an advanced screening last night of Eddington, which is an upcoming movie.
It premiered at Cannes.

Speaker 2 It has a lot of really cool people in it, all of whom I would love to have on the show. It is quite dark, but funny.

Speaker 2 What's it about? So it takes place during COVID in New Mexico. Okay.
And things based on that. That's all I can kind of say.
Like it's a lot of things ensue.

Speaker 1 And a wild poster. It's got a bunch of American buffalo bison

Speaker 1 running off the side of a steep cliff and they're in various states of tumbling to their death.

Speaker 2 It pokes fun at, I would say, everyone

Speaker 2 during that time. I mean, 2020, it starts in May 2020, and obviously a lot is happening at the time.
The pandemic, Black Lives Matter,

Speaker 2 the movie starts with a unhoused person kind of on this rant.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 And that's what made me think of it. But it's very thought-provoking and funny.
Like we all, everyone across the board went a bit crazy. Oh, absolutely.
And both sides. You get to see that and it's um

Speaker 2 it's it's it's good i think a lot of people are going to be talking about it when it comes out

Speaker 2 um so so shout out to eddington and joaquin phoenix pedro pascal and emma stone please come on this show also three of the 10 best actors alive right there i know walk

Speaker 2 joaquin phoenix is a phenom

Speaker 2 is such a special actor oh absolutely he's in that heath

Speaker 1 category.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. And it's so compelling.
He's just so compelling.

Speaker 1 In all the ways.

Speaker 2 Yeah, this, this,

Speaker 1 the tenderness.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I've hung with him a few times and I am completely charmed by him and think he's so wonderful. How's it going, Groot?

Speaker 1 He's at work.

Speaker 1 Take your grandson to work day. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Do you need to hold him again?

Speaker 1 No, I love looking at his little smile. Have you seen Sinner?

Speaker 2 Not yet.

Speaker 1 Oh, man.

Speaker 1 I saw it and i immediately of course wanted to talk to joy about it and i just hadn't i had been busy and then this morning after i dropped deltoff i called her and we had like a 45 minute conversation about it what did she have to say um is there anything you can say if people haven't seen it it just led to this incredible conversation

Speaker 1 between us about blackness, whiteness, masculinity, socioeconomic stuff, identity, how complex it all is, and how special the resilience of that group of people is and what has been the product of that.

Speaker 1 Black people. Yeah, black people.
The product has been the best art that this country has created. Yeah.
Is out of that

Speaker 1 heartache. And art, athletics,

Speaker 2 everything.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, I mean, one aspect of it is, is there's, there's also some Irish stuff happening in it.
And Joy was saying when she first saw it, she's like,

Speaker 1 why is there an Irish jig in this movie? And I was like,

Speaker 1 and I haven't read anything about it. She's read a ton about it.
One of her best friends is in it. So

Speaker 1 she had gone to like an early screening. And I said, well, what did the things you read say? Because I immediately went like, yeah, that's true of the Irish too.

Speaker 1 Like they were, you know, discarded by the English. And what came out of that is like this incredible music, the dancing, all the stuff.
And it's just such a weird phenomenon that out of that.

Speaker 1 suffering can come some of the greatest releases through artistic expression. This is quite beautiful.

Speaker 1 And yeah, the thing I think is so crazy, if you're the aliens looking at us from above and you understand

Speaker 1 genetics and alleles and genes, and you're like, let me get this straight. There's like a million genes,

Speaker 1 two of them

Speaker 1 dictate your skin color. And this whole artifice is based off of maybe the most minute bit of your genetics imaginable.
like it's just insane how

Speaker 1 strong and permanent the thing is when it's such an insignificant piece of human i don't know yeah it is that's just a wonderful conversation i just have so much gratitude to have her in my life to have very

Speaker 1 uh in-depth and honest conversations that's nice about that stuff yeah nice Great fucking movie.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I wanted to bring up that I think the sim

Speaker 2 is really,

Speaker 2 really on another level right now.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Or I'm really in sync with it or something is going on because I've had so many sit like

Speaker 2 weird sim moments lately.

Speaker 2 Last night after I got back from the movie, I was thinking about

Speaker 1 did the movie invite you to that?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, cool. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So Pedro Pascal is also in a movie coming out soon called The Materialist, which I really, really, really want to see.

Speaker 2 Because it's the director of Past Lives, which is one of my favorite movies I've seen in the past decade, I think.

Speaker 1 I love that movie.

Speaker 2 Oh my God, with Greta Lee, it's so

Speaker 2 good. It's so small, like it's a story of

Speaker 2 love and

Speaker 2 loss, and the complexity of all those things and relationships, like how

Speaker 2 complicated they are.

Speaker 2 And anyway, it's a beautiful movie and same director. And I'm, so I'm really excited to see that.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I was thinking about that and seeing it. And then I was like, it reminds me, Past Lives reminds me of this other movie I saw on an airplane.
And I couldn't, I was like, what is that movie?

Speaker 2 And it was like foreign, but I couldn't remember. And then I started listening to this random fashion podcast.
Okay.

Speaker 2 That like minutes later,

Speaker 2 the movie comes up. That movie.

Speaker 1 That you were trying to think of the name of, the foreign film.

Speaker 2 Yes, the worst person on earth or the worst.

Speaker 1 Oh, worst person in the world. Worst person in the world in the world.

Speaker 2 It's so good.

Speaker 1 Yeah, what's it about?

Speaker 2 It's a Norwegian woman and like she falls in love, but then there's like a cheating. I mean, it's just like a comedy romance, but deeper.
Okay. And

Speaker 2 also a really beautiful story. It's an incredible movie.
But I was, I couldn't remember it. And then they said it.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 That within like 10 minutes of all the movies in the whole world, that's weird.

Speaker 1 Yes, that is.

Speaker 2 Really weird. And then another sim,

Speaker 2 we have an upcoming guest. Great episode.
I was editing, and

Speaker 2 she's from,

Speaker 2 no, she brings up Lowell, Massachusetts.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 And when I was editing it, I, you know, I get to that part, Lowell, Massachusetts, and my jaw dropped because

Speaker 2 just hours before I was on Instagram, and what pops up?

Speaker 2 This clip. We're not in Boston, we're in Lowell, Massachusetts,

Speaker 2 or Massachusetts.

Speaker 1 I cannot ever say Massachusetts,

Speaker 1 Massachusetts,

Speaker 1 Massachusetts. I don't know what I'm a door.

Speaker 2 So that was in.

Speaker 1 Is that random people, or is that?

Speaker 2 No, that's Jessica Simpson. That's from Newlyweds.
Oh, my God. And it was a bit like, she couldn't, you remember that show?

Speaker 1 Yeah, she said things wrong.

Speaker 2 She said things wrong. She did things wrong.
She couldn't do the laundry, you know, whatever. Yeah, that was the problem.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 the chicken of the sea or tuna. And she didn't know if it was tuna.

Speaker 1 If there was chicken in the sea. I was on that show.
You were?

Speaker 1 I was because it was when I was over there shooting that video. And then somehow it was just like, I want to say I went in the hot tub and maybe got drunk or something.
Oh my God.

Speaker 1 I was in there shooting the show. And then I I think I was just, I think.
Wow.

Speaker 2 That's a big deal. That was a big show.
It was. I loved it.
Anyway, that popped up on my Instagram. She's saying Lola, Massachusetts.

Speaker 2 Don't act like this isn't nuts.

Speaker 1 Don't brush this off. The last thing I'll add before we do facts is: if, in case you're curious why I have this crazy haircut, oh, yeah.
It's because, have you seen the Brad Pitt GQ

Speaker 1 ad article? I did. Photo shoot.
you did or didn't I did and what did you think hot as hell god

Speaker 2 damn it yeah I know it's almost like the older he looks the hotter he is he's got like dirt on his face he looks so good he's got a shaved head he's got like a white not every one of his cohorts is aging the way he is I'll say that without disparaging anyone in particular fuck

Speaker 1 you know what is weird though what this has been tripping me out as he gets older he does a little bit look like my dad, which is crazy. I think primarily because my dad had really full big lips

Speaker 1 and just a similar face. Yeah, I just like, oh my God, like my wow.
My dad was almost Brad Pitt. That's cool.
Just needs to go a few degrees one way or the other. Really cool.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but him riding the motorcycle on the beach and he's got the goggles and his face is all dirty. Fuck.

Speaker 2 He's a stud.

Speaker 1 He's just laying that one shot of him laying. Like, he's just taking a breather, thinking, laying down on his back in a white tee.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So anyways, I saw that and I lost my shit. Yeah.
I can't even, I know you know what it does to me, but it does, it's so powerful.

Speaker 1 It gets me so like. I love that.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so I'm like, I've had a shaved head. I look terrible with a shaved head, but I want now a shaved head

Speaker 1 and a gray beard. Yeah.
And whatever motorcycle is riding the whole package.

Speaker 1 I basically was like, What's the closest thing I can do to a shaved head? Yes. And I landed on this.
Mohawk.

Speaker 2 Mohawk. For the listeners, Dex has a mohawk.

Speaker 2 It looks great. It's not a huge movie.
You don't need it? No. Okay, it's not a huge mohawk.
It's like

Speaker 2 conservative. It's a mini hawk.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's like maybe two inches long. Yeah, it's nice.
And I've really tried to think about what's going on. People love superheroes, right? They love superheroes for all these many reasons.

Speaker 1 And I really think, think like, for me, he's as close to a real version of that for me.

Speaker 1 He's kind of like a superhero to me. And so when I see him doing his superhero thing, I just,

Speaker 1 yeah, I don't know. Yeah.
The titillation is like, wow, how could he have now this facet as well? It's just like, it never ends. I don't get sick of it.
It's always a new look.

Speaker 1 There's always, he's in a dress at one point, you know, somewhere. I'm like, fuck, that's a rad dress.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I just think like the endless, like he remains novel at all times and he is aging. So it's like

Speaker 1 the story keeps on evolving.

Speaker 2 Yeah. He's great.

Speaker 1 I do think though, I try to think about like,

Speaker 1 as much as I would love to look like him and stuff, I also imagine it's a burden. For sure.
It has to be a major burden. Like, I don't know how the outside thing wouldn't infect the internal identity.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You just just have to truly be a superhero at that point for that not to just

Speaker 1 that to not be like some kind of well, even superheroes have kryptonite. Well, one does, yeah.

Speaker 1 They all have they all have a thing, they all have a fatal flaw, yeah, they do, anywho, okay, yeah, that's my hairdo. It's your hairdo, that's my hairdo, nice summary.

Speaker 1 It's been a pleasure having thanks for coming. Yeah, do you want to stick around for facts, Groot? Yeah, oh my god, his smile just got bigger.
It really did.

Speaker 2 If you guys aren't watching this fact, check, you just must.

Speaker 1 If your heart can handle it.

Speaker 2 If it can handle it.

Speaker 1 Good morning.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 1 Love you. Love you.

Speaker 1 Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert.

Speaker 1 If you dare.

Speaker 1 We are supported by Walden University.

Speaker 1 You know, a lot of people hit this point where they're doing well at work, but there's this nagging thought about taking that next step, maybe going after something they're really passionate about or finding ways to make a bigger impact.

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Speaker 1 They help people get what they call the W, those wins that actually move you forward and create real change in your life, career, and community. What's cool about their approach is tempo learning.

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Speaker 1 Okay, some facts. I've really invited myself.
That's cool. Maybe the most I've ever done.

Speaker 2 Is just get in the car.

Speaker 1 I was like, I would love to come to this with you.

Speaker 1 This screening of this movie that's just for cast members that I'll be up. He did invite, he did invite you, though.

Speaker 2 No, it was, I was, he was like, you guys want to come?

Speaker 1 As a, like, no one would want to come. As a joke.
Yeah, this is clearly a joke. Don't say yes.
I'm not really inviting you. Would you like to come? Yeah.
And I said, absolutely.

Speaker 1 I would love to come.

Speaker 2 You, man.

Speaker 1 And then right before the movie starts, like, the the directors all stand up. There's three of them, and they're going to tell everyone what they're about to see.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I go, I just, just really quick, if I was cut out, I would like to know before the movie, then find out after.

Speaker 2 Do people laugh?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it worked.

Speaker 2 But it was a big swing. That's a swing because, like, they couldn't.

Speaker 1 I had to call out that I had no business being at the swing.

Speaker 2 I know, but maybe people would think, oh, yeah, was he supposed to be in it? Cause he's not. This is horrible.

Speaker 1 I had a little bit of a fear that they would be like, oh, my God.

Speaker 1 A, I didn't even know he was in it. They didn't even announce announce it that he was in it.
And fuck, he didn't make the cut and he's here to watch. Yeah.
I really was nervous.

Speaker 1 Some people would think that.

Speaker 2 I admire you. You take a lot of swings that most people wouldn't.
And look, most of them work out.

Speaker 1 I mean, at least above 50%. Enough to encourage me to keep doing it.
Yeah. Yeah.
Wow. My family relishes when I miss.

Speaker 1 And I get it. I get it.
It must be so fun when I come up short because they know I'm taking all these swings.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's how I I feel. But then it feels bad.
It's like Schadenfreude. I actually don't like that feeling.

Speaker 1 You don't want me to fail, but it's also funny to watch.

Speaker 2 It's like, look,

Speaker 2 it feels more like the bill's going to come.

Speaker 2 Exactly. Like, just like, that's the way life is.

Speaker 1 You can't just get out of this. Yeah.
Justice has been served in a way. Justice is justice.

Speaker 2 My favorite thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But that one worked. That one worked.
Good. Fun.
Great.

Speaker 2 I mean, ding, ding, ding, you took a big swing at Stanley Tucci's house by reading the book, which I brought up on this episode.

Speaker 1 And I didn't even really remember that part. I know.
Yeah, well, I was doing an Italian accent.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 My mama. My papa.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Anyway. Anywho.

Speaker 2 All right, Sam. Well, Sam's.

Speaker 1 Sam, Sam.

Speaker 2 Sam is Sam I Am. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's the king.

Speaker 2 We talked about for a second transference and therapy.

Speaker 2 Transference refers to a patient's unconscious redirection of feelings and desires about past significant figures in their life onto their therapist.

Speaker 2 So this means the client may unconsciously project their emotions and expectations from previous relationships onto the therapist.

Speaker 2 For example, a client might experience love, anger, or dependence towards a therapist, similar to how they felt towards a parent or other important figures in their past.

Speaker 2 So.

Speaker 1 Do you have this? Do you experience this?

Speaker 2 I don't think so, but

Speaker 2 I do think I did it recently.

Speaker 2 And I knew it. I was like, oh my God, I'm doing this thing to her.

Speaker 2 I mean, it was a complicated scenario, which I've told you, I've now told you about separately, or on an upcoming episode, people will hear about it.

Speaker 2 There was a complicated scenario happening, and I was having a feeling about her that I have about other people.

Speaker 2 And I knew then I was like, oh, I'm just doing this to her. But then what was interesting is then when her and I talked about it, she was like, yeah, I shouldn't have done.

Speaker 2 like, I didn't say you shouldn't have done that. I was like, Okay, so this has been going on and I'm realizing this.
And she was like, I should not have done that.

Speaker 2 So that it was interesting.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Anyway, I just love my therapist so much

Speaker 2 so much. And when I was watching the new season of Couples Therapy, I was like, she really has Orna vibes.
Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 That's a huge compliment. I know.
I know I used to tell my therapist about how great Orna was. How could that be fun to hear?

Speaker 2 No one wants to hear that.

Speaker 1 Or Phil Stutz when we are obsessed with Phil. I would share with

Speaker 1 my therapist how much I like Phil Stutz. Yeah.
But I had to be honest. That's maybe

Speaker 1 it.

Speaker 2 Oh, yes. Yes, you do.
You do in therapy.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But if someone's just going on and on with you about how much they love a certain podcast that's not yours, you know, they might at some point like rein it in.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's like have some awareness.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, some social awareness.

Speaker 1 Okay, now I don't, if I've done it, I've not been conscious of it. Yeah.
I don't think I have. Like, I don't think that's something I've like role-played or.

Speaker 2 Yeah. It's all subconscious.
Yeah. It's not like.

Speaker 1 Well, I think sometimes it's explicit, right? Like have a conversation with me. What would you say to your dad?

Speaker 1 So you're almost like inviting

Speaker 1 yourself to take on your dad role.

Speaker 2 This is like.

Speaker 2 The pattern you get in that's negative that you're there to figure out.

Speaker 2 That person, the therapist becomes that person.

Speaker 1 yeah they need to fill that role yeah it's pretty

Speaker 1 we're embarrassing right but we're trying to be better that that's the point of it and that's the endearing part yeah yeah

Speaker 2 okay so i looked up the tanzania safari animals versus the kruger ones okay great okay what are you finding Tanzania I'm seeing wild beast, giraffe, hippopotamus, cheetah, zebra, leopard, lion, flamingos, American, I mean, African American bald eagle,

Speaker 2 African buffalo. Oh boy, there's really a lot of them, so I'm not going to keep going.
Um, now, as far as Kruger,

Speaker 1 you see what is cute is you said wild beast.

Speaker 2 That's wildebeest, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 It's just someone will say in the comments, I want to save them the

Speaker 1 wild. Here's what they've got in Tanzania: wild beast.

Speaker 2 I mean, that's cool.

Speaker 2 Wildebeest.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oops.

Speaker 1 The density, I don't want to shit on anyone else's African safari, but just as a fact, the density of animals on the Squimetti Reserve is astronomically higher than almost everywhere else, other than Botswana.

Speaker 2 That's cool. Yeah.
Okay. Now in Kruger,

Speaker 2 Kruger National Park. Famous.
Leopard, African buffalo.

Speaker 1 Again. Wild beast.

Speaker 2 Wildebeest.

Speaker 2 Cheetah. African wild dog.
Common warthog. Now I'm like really nervous.
I'm going to read something wrong.

Speaker 2 Impala, vervet monkey, blue wildebeest.

Speaker 2 Yeah, some others.

Speaker 2 I'm not seeing like lion.

Speaker 1 They have them there in Kruger. I think that's where famously one of those lions got into the bus window.
Really? Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's

Speaker 2 that makes me really not gonna go.

Speaker 1 Do you have interest in going on safari?

Speaker 2 Or it's not huge for you. It's not on the top of my list.

Speaker 1 You're not like an animal person.

Speaker 2 Brand new information.

Speaker 2 It might be. Remember, I'm the one that told you that

Speaker 2 seahorse.

Speaker 2 I didn't know what a seahorse was because Indians

Speaker 2 don't know that much about animals.

Speaker 1 They don't fuck with seahorses, I think.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they mainly have

Speaker 2 bangled tigers. Tigers and elephants.
Exactly. They fuck with elephants only.
Yeah. Okay, so I was Googling do koalas have chlamydia.
If you just type in do koalas, it auto-fills.

Speaker 1 John Oliver famously, do you remember this? He had, um, he had a long-running bit, and it had to do with somehow

Speaker 1 Russell Crowe.

Speaker 1 It involved Russell Crowe. Okay.

Speaker 1 And so Russell Crowe, to get back at him, bought a plaque for him at the chlamydia award for the

Speaker 1 koalas.

Speaker 1 It was in like the John Oliver koala chlamydia lab. You know, like it was a nominal

Speaker 1 donation required to have his name permanently associated with koala chlamydia. Koala chlamydia.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It is a significant threat to the koala populations in Australia, causing blindness, infertility, and even death.

Speaker 2 Experts estimate that between 20% and 90% of koalas are infected with, also, that's.

Speaker 1 That's a huge delta, though.

Speaker 2 Yes. I don't love that.

Speaker 1 That's like saying somewhere between none and all.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but it's probably because there's such stigma, the koalas aren't self-reporting.

Speaker 1 Yeah, probably. It's hard to get them to sell it.
That's part of that part.

Speaker 1 Okay. They're between 20 and 90%.
That is literally like saying it's between none and all.

Speaker 2 I think they mean in certain locations, like certain populations of them.

Speaker 1 Okay. Like some areas they have, most have it.
Yeah. I want to be in the group with 90%.
Why? That means they were fucking a lot. But you might get a lot of people.

Speaker 1 There's evidence of being a party animal.

Speaker 1 Koalas are party animals. They are,

Speaker 1 as we now found out.

Speaker 2 Oh, I guess like.

Speaker 1 They're bed hopping. I guess I'm not a koala.

Speaker 1 You're a chinchilla.

Speaker 2 We should look up the chlamydia rate of chinchillas.

Speaker 1 I bet it's low.

Speaker 2 They're mostly because no one wants to have sex with them.

Speaker 1 No, because they've taken themselves out of the population.

Speaker 2 And they are like goo.

Speaker 1 They don't have ribs, I think. But maybe they do.
They have floating ribs.

Speaker 2 That's why I am definitely not a chinchilla. I have pretty prominent ribs.

Speaker 1 Pronounced ribs. Strong ribs to house those eggs.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Was Nixon elected November 5th, 1968? Yeah.

Speaker 2 His birthday. Good job.

Speaker 1 Nixon's birthday. Really cool.

Speaker 2 I thought that this episode, like

Speaker 2 if you're in acting school or in

Speaker 2 theater programs like I was, I just thought like, oh, if I was in my high school theater right now or in my college theater, I would love to listen to this because he talked about Meisner.

Speaker 2 He talked about

Speaker 2 some direction from Philip Seymour Hoffman in a play that was very interesting. And he mentioned Eric Bogozian like very, very quickly.
And he's a huge playwright.

Speaker 2 Like when he mentioned him as he was in a scene with him.

Speaker 2 And I was like, oh, the guy who wrote Suburbia, like he's a very big playwright. And I would have been very excited if I was really in that moment.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 But I thought, oh, you wouldn't get it if you weren't a theater head.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I didn't get that.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So if you know anyone in a theater program, send this episode their way.

Speaker 1 You know, what's really funny is like in general, as people who listen to the show would know, I don't, I'm not generally interested in how someone someone acts. Yeah.

Speaker 1 There's just a handful of people, and it's really dictated by, do I think they're doing something that's absolutely extraordinary within the discipline?

Speaker 1 And I think he's one of the very few people I am want to know how they do what they do or if they even know.

Speaker 2 I agree.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it would be like if we had Christian Bale on, we're asking him about it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I want to know how he breaks this down and gets to where he gets.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaking of both of them, I was trying to find the clip of, I bet you did, you rascal.
Hard to find. Which was in Vice.

Speaker 1 Best line of the movie.

Speaker 2 Best line. Sam plays Bush and Christian Bale plays

Speaker 2 Janey, and I couldn't find it.

Speaker 1 Ah, bummer.

Speaker 2 No, it's a great line. But also, I was watching it.

Speaker 1 It could be one of these lines where it's not even in the movie. No, wait.
You gotta find out. You know how, like, you've just been saying it so long.
You find out.

Speaker 1 Oh my God, it's not even what he said.

Speaker 2 Or it's a different movie or something.

Speaker 2 Anyway, they are both. I was just watching like a three-minute clip because I thought that's where it was.
And

Speaker 2 they're both so

Speaker 2 good

Speaker 2 and so undetectable. The real person.

Speaker 2 It's wild.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Some people are just born to do certain things.

Speaker 1 He in particular, his gift is being a chameleon. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I remember watching Vice and like

Speaker 1 I thought about it for the first nine seconds he was on screen and then I never thought about it again. And it really was just Cheney.

Speaker 2 he's yeah yeah he can really do that like what if he had never found acting he'd be a drug addict oh we'll ask next time if we ever get him on um okay misner just really quick we didn't get too deep in this but i do think it's worth there's all these activities and all these rules and all these things we did a lot of meisner in school and i was keeping it to myself obviously yeah you don't want to run

Speaker 1 make me feel insecure for my lack of training Yeah.

Speaker 2 But the main thing you think of when you think of Meisner is this repetition exercise, which is like two people are in a room and

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 observe something. You're wearing a white shirt.
Then you'll say, I'm wearing a white shirt. I say, you're wearing a white shirt.
I'm wearing a white shirt.

Speaker 2 And you keep going back and forth until you notice something like naturally changes and you say that. And then it's, and you keep going back and forth.

Speaker 1 forth but you're obligated to not steer it in any direction exactly it's really hard yeah um i want to do that i mean i don't want to make everyone else sit through but i want to do it okay you know later you're wearing a black shirt i don't want to do it okay

Speaker 2 okay the original gong show

Speaker 2 that was on nbc from 1976 to 1980 Four years.

Speaker 1 Again, four years. All these things I thought were on for 12 years.
I thought Duke Zayhazar was on for like 10 seasons.

Speaker 2 I know. That's me with the show.

Speaker 1 A lot of these shows were like average hits. Yeah.
I know. Mary Caden Ashley.

Speaker 2 Oh, it was on for eight seasons. Never mind.
Oh, wait, no, they might be counting

Speaker 2 later ones.

Speaker 1 No, I think that one was on. Was it? That one really ran, didn't it?

Speaker 2 I mean, I thought, but then,

Speaker 2 oh, my God. Speaking of cool stuff.

Speaker 1 Successful things. Full house.
We were talking about full house and that's cool stuff. To me.
Yeah, cool stuff.

Speaker 2 Actually, no. Speaking of successful things, speaking of Mary Caden Ashley, the Roe,

Speaker 2 estimated billion-dollar company.

Speaker 2 Valued. Valued at a billion dollars.
Yeah. I just read today that Haley Bieber's makeup company, Road, which is very good.
I like a lot of their products, was bought for a billion dollars today.

Speaker 1 I was just somewhere she was at and I didn't talk to her. And now I wish I did so I could ask her about her company.

Speaker 2 I'm kind of obsessed with her. You are.
She's

Speaker 2 really a powerhouse business person who's been like

Speaker 2 you know looked at as justin bieber's wife who and not only that like stole him from selena gomez like pegged in the script yes that's a story so she's been villainized a ton were they together they were

Speaker 1 okay

Speaker 1 and she's also someone's daughter yeah she's steven baldwin yeah yeah so she has a lot of um

Speaker 1 people that could overshadow her. And she's like, no.

Speaker 2 I think it's awesome.

Speaker 1 I'm going to get a billion dollars. She can me for money.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And we will ask her for some.

Speaker 1 We will ask her for some.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Anyway, I just think it's cool when women make a billion dollars.

Speaker 1 Me too. I love it.
I just love it. All right.

Speaker 2 Well, oh, oh, oh, one thing that I wrote down when he talked about Philip Seymour Hoffman and he

Speaker 2 said, you know, he was always the sober guy.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like that was like who he was to them. Yeah.
So it really caught them off guard.

Speaker 2 And that made me feel really sad.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I understood it. It's like sometimes that becomes your identity

Speaker 2 so much so that I don't know.

Speaker 1 It is all interesting.

Speaker 1 He's he's very legendary in the AA world,

Speaker 1 Philip.

Speaker 2 In what way?

Speaker 1 He just was like, people would hear him speak and he could speak in a way that was very eloquent yeah and like

Speaker 1 whatever his skills were as a humanist to be an actor i think also was him sharing i just have ran into lots of people who had seen him share over the years you know like he's such a special dude and yeah so yeah that was one of the bigger uh ones that shook the community yeah oh it's so sad

Speaker 1 It really,

Speaker 2 yeah, like it's one thing when

Speaker 1 this sounds, sounds, it's all horrible.

Speaker 2 It's always so sad. But when you know someone is struggling.

Speaker 1 That they had it licked at one point. Is that what you mean?

Speaker 2 Well, I mean when you know, when you know someone's like a constantly back and forth and it's like a constant struggle when some when it ultimately gets them, it's so sad, but you're not like,

Speaker 2 fuck, this doesn't work,

Speaker 2 you know?

Speaker 2 But when it's someone like this where he's the sober guy, he's done it yeah and then it still gets never too late exactly it makes me really scared yeah scared is all right yeah sad and scared

Speaker 1 sad and scared

Speaker 1 can you just be careful yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah well i'll uh i'll try not to shoot dope yeah

Speaker 2 well any of it yeah yeah

Speaker 1 there is

Speaker 1 There is a sliding scale of lethality for sure.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but that scale gets away from everyone fast.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. Love you.
Love Sam Rockwell.

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Speaker 1 Guess what?

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