James Marsden

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert.
I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Lily Padman. Hi.
Today we have a very handsome guest. We sure do.
He is handsome. He was one time named GQ's handsomest man.
Golly, what does it feel like? Would you rather have, does people do sexiest man? Sexiest, yeah. Would you rather have handsomest man GQ or sexiest man people? Wow, great Q.
Great Q. Great Q.
Great GQ. I would rather have handsomest.
That feels like timeless. Actually, I want sexiest.
Yeah want sexy. Yeah.
Sexy boy. Sexy guy? Sexy man.
Sexy person. Friendly boy.
Best boy, sexy man, cool guy. Cool guy.
Get it right. Okay.
James Marsden. You've been watching him forever.
I've been losing roles to him for a good 25 years. X-Men, Enchanted, The Notebook, 27 Dresses.
But I think where he really absolutely blew our minds was Jury Duty. So good.
If you haven't seen Jury Duty, stop right now and go watch it. Find it, watch it.
He's absolutely incredible. And he has a new show out on Hulu, streaming now, called Paradise.

And I am not lying. It is, it's got hooks in the whole family.
You're in. I'm so excited to watch it.
Yeah, we're very, very in. It's Dan Fogelman.
Yeah. Very loved and esteemed writer and an incredible premise.
So please enjoy James Marston. This episode is supported by

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Did you happen to hear me interview Toto? I did not. You're missing out on one of the greatest visual experiences ever, to watch Toto Wolff be charming for two hours.
I'm so out of it. I'm like, the band Toto? Like, oh, Toto Wolff from Mercedes.
Yes, the chief. Totooto Wolf.
Lewis, I know the car is no good. You have to drive it.
I thought if one would come across your desk, that would be the episode. Several have come across my...
Hello. How are you? Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you, Monica. You gonna go squirt or anything? Take a little pee-pee? You gonna go squirt? Not good, actually.
You wanna go number two? You wanna hop in the trap? We can step out. I feel like this is a trap.
We can always stop if you change your mind. My bowels are comfortable.
Okay, good. My bladder is evacuated.
I remember I ran into you in Austin at the, not this, last year's race. It was the prior year.
We've run into each other a few times. I want to say Miami.
Were you there inaugural? I was there first and second year. First year was a mess.
First year was a little rough. Wabi, I sound crazy.
I don't know if there's been an adjustment. Maybe the tea kettle go on nuts? Oh, that's probably part of it.
Just turn me down. A touch.
James is a little hot. Believe it or not.
I can back off. No, no.
I want your full. Can you whisper? Timber and tamber.
We can do some, what's it called? Ooh. ASMR.
ASMR. Whatever it is.
Oh, that's a personality test, right? ASMR. ASMR.
If you'd like me to back. We could do ASMR, but we could also do EMT therapy.
EMT therapy or TMJ, that issue people have with their jaw. Yes, with your mouth.
So funny you say that. Uh-oh.
Because you ever get one ear that's clogged from going in elevation or up or down yes had that now for like 45 minutes and i keep doing this thing with my jaw that makes me look like a crazy person can you yawn that's what my son told me to do but how is yawning different than just doing that no it opens it does something try it it's so much effort to actually yawn. Give us a good, good yawn, James.
Your very best yawn. Now it's like acting yawn.
Your audience is going to be like, terrific. This is going to be a great chat.
We're going to be yawning. I like the notion that you are paying some price for such a dominant chin and jawline.
That is probably why. That's very nice of you.
You have that really cute kind of cleft. Just a touch of a clef, right? You would agree.
I don't know about that. Yeah.
This little old teacup chin. Not very manly, is it? This little teacup chin is taking you all around the world, my friend.
My first band. This little teacup chin.
It's taking me around the world. I'm very grateful.
Back to Toto Wolf. Do you share in the world's obsession with him? When I think of who the sexiest, coolest guy in all of F1 is, it's not any of the drivers.
It's actually Toto. I agree.
And there's a mystery always following the guy around. And you've stood next to him.
I have. And he's always very kind.
He'll make a point to, in the middle of the race, coming in from the garage and go through the hospital and come over and say, hello, how are you? I'm going to fuck up the accent. No, I know you can do it.
Have you been in the garage? Oh, that's pretty good. That's not terrible.
Very nice guy, but he's an enigma. He is.
And he's such a towering hulk of a man. And fit.
Do one of those slap him on the arm things and it's like marble. Scares you.
Do you like men's bodies? That's a great... We're diving right into this.
We got to get there fast. This is what I was prepared for.
On a scale of one to ten. On a scale of one to Dax.
How do I like men's bodies? Yes, I'm fully obsessed. I can appreciate a great men's body.
Hit me with a couple that you love. Like, I'll go first.
Dennis Rodman went with the Bulls or the Lakers. What was specific about his body? He had really, really big shoulders, yet really thin, long trunk.
Remember David Robinson? Oh, yes. The Admiral.
You could land a plane on him. Yeah, yeah.
Trapezius. Okay, Rodman.
We would all agree on Pitt Fight Club. I was going to say Brad Pitt Fight Club.
Yeah. Because it was on display as well.
But he's very tiny in that. He's like around 140 in that.
He's just so cut. Well, he's got one of those long torsos, too, which I always wanted.
I'm not a super tall guy, but my legs are longer in proportion. That's how mine are.
They're longer than my torso. And I want to stretch this out.
You guys should have a child that's an ostrich together. Just huge legs.
Enormous legs. Not even torso.
Just neck to legs. Dax just sent me a video on Instagram of the tallest woman and shortest woman.
I think I saw this was like a puberty post. They got together for tea.
Are the mugs separate sizes as well? I hope because the tiny mug is bigger than the girl. She's kind of inconceivably tiny.
If you saw her at a distance, she wouldn't really have any idea. She looks kind of proportional.
Oh, yeah. Next to the giant woman.
Of course. Yeah.
Say anything bad about either of them. How tall is she? She looked eight foot something.
Yes. She's probably giant woman.
Of course. Yeah.
Say anything bad about it. No, nothing bad about either of them.

How tall is she?

She looked eight foot something.

Yes.

She's probably eight foot something.

And I said it looked like a version of you and I.

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

Because the girl kind of looked like me and the woman kind of looked like you.

I kind of look like the woman.

Something about it felt just so science fiction-y.

I think it's crazy that a Mastiff and a chihuahua are the same

species and can have an offspring. Is that true? Yeah.
The definition of the same species is they

can have a fertile offspring. Sure.
But that would need some help. I don't know if you got the

chihuahua male little stool. So yeah, that's how it would be assistance.
Yeah. They're the same

species. And you're looking at them going, oh my God, we're so hung up on these little differences like skin color.
And I look at a Chihuahua in a fucking massive. I'm like, that's a gap.
That's a Delta in a species. So in general, it's not a lot of variety.
But then when you see that video, you go, okay, it can also happen with us. I see the variety when I go to sit courtside at an NBA game in proportion to these guys.
and so athletic, like some people who are just tall, you see these guys just sprinting twice as fast as you could, and they're 6'9". I think LeBron might be the best example of that.
I don't know, was he 6'10 or 11? 6'8, 6'9". Okay, but he is sprinting down the court with great ball handling.
He's an adonis. There's a body you like.
Yeah, let's add him to the list. But he could have been a tight end in the NFL.
Exactly. By the way, I saw your recent post about the Lions.
I couldn't believe that. But very, very elegant and graceful acceptance.
Oh, oh, oh, thank you. I got to say it did go from one of the true top five highlights of my best friend and I.
We've been friends since we were 11. To be on that field, to meet Dan, the coach, and hug him.
We were just peaked. We were like at a 12.
And then to sit down and for the air to come out of that balloon in the manner that it did. And then to leave completely heartbroken.
I mean, it was the full range of human emotions. But the human condition, too.
Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah.
Absolutely. Okay, so you and I know each other a little bit.
And it'd'd be fun for us to go through our memory because I have the very most specific memory of meeting you. And I can't imagine you would have the same memory simply because there was a big time sim moment just preceded us meeting for the very first time.
And I don't think I've ever told you this. Kristen and I were going out to a restaurant on La Cienega, which we almost never do.
And we're driving from the East side. And I had just recently lost some role to you, which has happened to me several times.
No. Yeah.
Yeah. I've been up for a few different things that you got.
And I think rightly so you got them, but it had just happened. And I said, I got to meet this guy.
This guy must be one of the most charismatic folks there is. I hope this story goes well.
I am saying this on the ride to this restaurant we've never been to. We pull up and get out to valet and you're standing there waiting for your car.
And you're immediately like, hi guys, I'm James. Came over, introduced yourself.
You are insanely nice. Oh my God.
Chris and I were just looking at each other like, this is impossible. I was just saying, this guy must just be electric.
We meet you. You're everything I thought you could be.
And then we walked in. I was like, oh my God.
Yes, it's exactly what I thought. So that's the first time I remember meeting you.
Well, you're right. I don't remember it.
No, I think people say the same thing about you. I like hearing about those people in this business that are like, you know what? I can't think of one bad thing to say about that guy.
Well, lovely. And then since then though, you and I bump into each other at Formula One kind of frequently.
I'd say of any other actor, you're the person I've seen most at races. I obviously love the sport.
I came into it. I was dating this wonderful woman who was English, you know, Ron Dennis, who used to be the head guy at McLaren when Senna was raising.
I did not know that. Okay.
So Ron Dennis was like her godfather. So she was raised in F1.
And so she just kind of turned me on to the sport. This was back in 2015, pre the Netflix.
Drive to Survive. Yes.
That's how I got into it. And it's a bit of shame I have.
Well, no, you shouldn't have shame. When I saw it on TV, I was like, this is the stupidest racing I've ever seen.
There's no fucking passing. Why does anyone watch this? Well, I had the same questions.
I was like, so whoever's got the fastest car wins if you put this guy in this car it's a procession at monaco because no one can pass i also worked for this watch company for a while iwc and they were very kind and gracious to invite me some of the races and so i got to be friends with lewis this is before lewis became lewis oh wow i mean he was lewis but he wasn't stratospheric so So we got to be pals. He would invite me to a couple of races.

I remember we went to Barcelona.

I'm kind of the only person there.

If I'm calling myself a celebrity or whatever, I feel weird saying that.

A known person.

Yeah.

I started to get into it.

Then you get immersed in it.

And then you start to see all the nuance of the race.

And like, okay.

Yeah, there's a ton of strategy that's not necessarily visible.

It's kind of like how I viewed soccer for a long time. And I kind of admittedly still do, which is I grew up with American football, basketball, and I watch the Europeans play football and it's soccer.
And I know there's strategy. I know these are really gifted athletes.
But it does look like chaos. And it may look like luck.
It's such a low scoring game. Yes.
That a ball goes off somebody's heel and it goes in the goal and they win the game. Forget who had the momentum for the whole game.
But the more I learn about that sport, this isn't suspicious that the same guys get lucky off their heel all the time. Right? No.
I think that's all sports if you don't know it. Exactly my point.
The more familiar you are with it. I think that was with F1.
OK, now I get what's going on. Managing tires and your teammate and your pitting and your strategy of one stop versus two stops.
But there is a margin for things that you just don't think are going to happen. So if you started going then, you've gone to what, 20 races? Yeah, something like that.
I got to say, in the last couple of years, I haven't been to many. I think that's what you and I agreed upon the last time we saw each other, which is I really loved the opportunity to go.
It's such a special experience. But in truth, I'm such a diehard fan.
I need to be at home where I can really concentrate on the radio communication and what the announcers are saying. And I miss a lot of the tiny details when I'm there in person.
I love that the sport is getting highlighted. But what I was saying is like now it's become I remember the first year in Miami.
It felt like I was at the Met Ball. Sure, sure, sure.
It felt like I was like. CMBC.
Yeah, you were the 25th most famous person there. I was the 29th.
Were you resentful? And let's get to the real reason why we don't like it now, right? Yeah, you're like, I was day one. You're from Oklahoma.
And we interview people from all over the country on Fridays. We have a show which is just listeners and certainly the fewest number of callers we've received is from Oklahoma or Alaska

maybe. You don't meet a lot of folks from Oklahoma and I have to imagine have people not found that

charming in this town because I know people have found it charming that I'm from kind of a hick

area and do hick things. People are charmed by that in Hollywood.
They are. Has that been your

experience being from Oklahoma? It has been but it feels like to me I've only met Oklahoma

Thank you. area and do hick things.
People are charmed by that in Hollywood. They are.
Has that been your experience being from Oklahoma? It has been, but it feels like to me, I've only met Oklahomans in LA. Oh, really? So maybe we have a way of finding each other.
I love the place. I'm so happy I grew up there, but you either stay or you go somewhere else.
I guess that's any place. Now that I think about it.
Wow, what a profound statement. It was pretty poignant.
I know what you bet. You either stay, explain it to me, guys.
Maybe there's something in there for like, oh, you can go and come back. What do you mean you go to chase something? I think so.
Also, one thing you might be saying that you're not articulating is that there are many states where you may move around within the state. Oklahoma, maybe you either stay where you were born or you get the fuck out of the state.
That's not what I meant. You're right.
It's not what I meant. Nice that you tried to sort of soften that a little bit, but it's not.
It's like you either stay there or post up. I'm like, I ain't leaving.
Yeah. Or you're married to your high school suite.
Yes. And now I'm careful with that because I don't want to disparage or say anything negative about Oklahoma, but it does feel like that to me.
I'm trying to figure out why I've run into so many Oklahomans. I run into Detroiters, but we kind of like Detroit shit.
I'll be at the Kings Red Wings game. There was a Coney Island for a while in Sunset that Mike Bender owned.
I go in there and sure enough, every guy from Detroit is in there. So maybe there's some shit you guys are all drawn to that you're not even aware of.
And going into a new big city, I don't know. It feels like you find each other somehow because you do feel like an outsider.
Culture shifts are massive, but exciting. I guess the conversation is, where are you from? Oklahoma.
Oh, you know what? Jean Triplehorn is from Oklahoma. All of a sudden, somehow you're chatting with her.
Well, growing up there, your mother was a nutritionist and your father was a food safety person. And that's basically how I describe it as well.
Okay, great. I lost one of the words.
He's so much smarter than me. He's a microbiologist.
Whoa. Okay.
But he deals in food safety. Anytime you hear about salmonella or E.
coli breaking out in food, he's usually in the news. Oh, no shit.
That's cool. It's like one of the guys who called.
Oh, it's kind of Munchausen-y. Well, that's what I was going to ask.
So with a mother that's a nutritionist and a father who's a food safety expert. Was food a topic? Was it being talked about a lot? No.
That was their work. They left it at the office.
Okay. And came home and ate a bowl full of fruity pebbles.
Didn't think twice. Wow.
Hypocritical. That's not really true.
I mean, we didn't really have the best, but Oklahoma food was chicken fried steak, gravy and mashed potatoes. Really good stuff.
Is that what you would think a nutritionist? Right. No.
Especially now having lived in LA for 30 years. Well, it's a religion here.
We're a godless city and our religion is worrying about our bodies. Yeah.
Could be worse. Could be worse.
It's a good thing. Yeah.
I was wondering, was there a issue of the day in the eighties when your dad was doing this that now seems kind of cute or rather is something today kind of cute compared to what do you even remember the things he was tackling no because it started he was working at a meat

packing facility and he was sort of working in tandem with the fda i just didn't know what any

of it meant and frankly when i was young i didn't really care uh-huh and nothing against my dad he's

exceptional at what he does he was a professor at kansas state university teaching about

microbiology and that's cool to talk about but i didn't really know of course and there's no

movies when we were kids where the stud who was

Thank you. He's exceptional at what he does.
He was a professor at Kansas State University teaching about microbiology. And it's cool to talk about, but I didn't really know.
Of course. And there's no movies when we were kids where the stud who was slain was a food safety.
Yeah, that hadn't come around yet. He was before his time.
OK, so dad, very, very smart, clearly. And he was a professor.
Now you go to Oklahoma State and you're going to do broadcast journalism. You're there for a year and a half and you bail.
Were they like, what are you doing? Was that a hard thing for you to announce? I didn't take anyone by surprise because I had been talking about wanting to move to LA to pursue an acting career. From what age? 16.
You had started acting in high school? Yeah, I was like junior high, 14, 15. And I was taking those classes.
You know, you select your electives. And I was like, well, what's going to be the easiest? GPA booster here.
Drama. Choir.
I got into choir, didn't know I could sing. And I just sort of later discovered that I could fake it.
But then I started getting on stage and I started enjoying it. And then I went to Hawaii with my father on a little family vacation and met Candice Cameron from Full House.
What? That whole family. Kurt Cameron? Yeah, and they were very nice.
We hung out the whole trip. No way.
Was it romantic, Sparks? No. I was 15.
She was 13. That's a perfect match.
That's a perfect match. Was that 10th grade and 9th grade? There's nothing statutory about that.
No, no, but it was pretty innocent, I guess. It was just fun.
Now, here's some fun overlap I didn't expect. So my first agent was the mom.
No way. Barbara Cameron.
That's right. She was an agent.
She was for commercials. At Harry Gold or something like that.
Well, she started her own thing, Barbara Cameron Agency. Wow, so you met them.
So then it kind of became, oh, that's real. Well, this is something I kind of wanted to do anyway, because I was a big movie buff, TV, big SNL fan.
You said you used to memorize Pryor's stand-up and all these different stand-up routines. Pryor, Eddie Murphy.
I would go to school, and that's how I would get attention. I was never really the hot guy.
Don't say that. No, no, no, no, no.
It's really true. It's such a weird thing when you hear people go, I was such a weirdo.
That's so gawky. But it's kind of true.
I was just a kind of odd dude who didn't really have a lot of friends. I saw the picture you showed on Colbert of you in high school.
And you're a fucking babe. Your shirt's undone.
I don't know what guy had the confidence in his high school photo to wear a collared shirt that's undone like three buttons. Your physique is nice.
I think this was probably on my way to LA. I'm not sure that was a high school day.
First of all, you were objectively very cute. I saw the picture, so I'm not going to stand for this.
But what I will stand for on it, because I came from a redneck area, is the thing that was prized at my school wasn't necessarily cute. If you were in drama, you were dead.
I was in a big high school and they actually did have a pretty decent performing arts. You chose it, so obviously.
Yeah, I was, and I set myself up for a pummeling in the parking lot, but it wasn't that bad where I was from. You're not the captain of the football team, but by the time senior year came around, some of the football players were getting into drama, like doing musicals.
And you're one year older than me, I like pointing out, which is crazy because I could imagine that being the case six years after me. And that means your five zero has got to be.
It was two weeks ago. Oh, happy birthday, my friend.
Thank you. Thank you.
What did you do? I didn't do anything. I cared for my child who was dying of norovirus in Mexico City.
And I was debating whether one takes one to the hospital there or just waits it out. I waited it out.
But that's fine. We did a fact check that was really fun.
I had had it the day before and it was kind of a birthday miracle. I woke up feeling OK.
So is that just a delay of the celebration? No, I'm not built for that. I'm usually not either.
It's rare you meet someone that understands what I'm saying. I'm so afraid everyone will have a bad time and I'll just worry about it for weeks leading up to it.
And then I'll go, why am I doing this to myself? Well, if you're anything like me, it's like I'm now by having this party for myself, seeing every one of my friends eyes roll back into their head like, oh, my God, this is a fucking thing I have to go to. What do we get him? Do you have to bring a gift? We'll go for an hour and a half.
We'll leave. And so all of these scenarios play in your head.
And you're like, you know what? I'm sorry. Don't worry about it.
I'm sorry I invited you. And I've actually done that my whole life.
Never been a big birthday celebrator because you're kind of one or the other. You are.
Now, my wife, and I don't judge her, Imani to some extent, they really love their birthdays and they want a big party. Less than less older, I guess.
But there's nothing wrong with this. No, I think it's right.
I wish I was more like that. Me too.
I think we are defective. Yeah, it's more pretentious almost to do that.

It almost sounds faux humble or something. Right, exactly.

Than to actually just say, fuck it, I'm having a party.

What's wrong with that?

Also, then it can get complicated because people do want to celebrate you.

So then they're like, well, then let's just do a dinner.

Just us.

You're still putting people out when you don't have a party.

You can't win.

Just letting you know.

Yeah, it's true.

Well, this was 50.

Did you do something?

I did.

What'd you do?

I'm proud of you. It was against my will.
Friends were like, you are doing this this year. I rented an obnoxious house in the Hollywood Hills.
You probably know it. It's an old Lautner mid-century house with like cement ceilings.
It's the famous guy who goes to all the Lakers games. Wait, we've been there.
That's where we went to our Spotify party. An incredible house.
Incredible place. You're not allowed to drink red wine there.
Not on the grounds anywhere. It's forbidden.
The two caveats we heard is he said there's no red wine on the property and I have to be invited to the party. It doesn't mean I'll go.
Was that the case? Exactly the same. I love it.
There's no world where you're not invited to this thing. In fact, I'd like for you to be there before everyone arrives.
Yeah, you're the star. During and after everyone leaves.
He's a Hollywood icon. He's a real estate guy, but he always sat next to Jack Nicholson at the Lakers for like 30 years.
So he's like one of our mascots. The cowboy hat has got the white hair.
It's like 109 pounds. Wearing a leather jacket.
Iconic. Super cool.
Anyway, he rents his place out and he's got a club inside the house and it's called Club James. And when I was looking at these locations i said you gotta maybe hide the club james thing oh i didn't even put two and two together i didn't tell the party planner and then when it happened it was like they lit it up put like spotlights on it club james so then it became like uh yeah i'm doing it as a joke are you glad i'm glad i had it it actually made me realize, why haven't I done this before? It almost felt like a wedding.
Yes. All the people

that have been in your life all in one spot. It's lovely.
Yeah. I think Polar said it best.

Maybe I'm making this up that she said this, but you get to look out and see these people are the

proof of the life you've built. And it's kind of satisfying because you put yourself out there and

you've made these connections and it is beautiful. And I really wish I had had a party now.
Well, you have the excuse though to have a belated because you put your child's health in front of your own self-celebratory. So it'll both be like a congratulations party and a birthday party.
You tell the story about it. You can get on the microphone.
As many of you know, we were scheduled to do this back in January. Yes.
I just couldn't do it because I love my child too much. Yes.
How affected were you when your parents got divorced at nine? Was that a big one? I don't feel like I held or do hold still a lot of trauma or disappointment or sadness because of that. To the degree where I'm like, should I? You talk to people who come from split families that can be really life-changing and maybe I just haven't come to terms with it yet.
That's totally a great answer. It's the most honest.
Yes. And you have four siblings? Yeah.
I've got two brothers a year and a half apart. Irish triplets.
I'm the middle. So second child.
You feel like a middle. Yeah.

I'm a middle. Middle's good, right? I think.
You kind of flow with everything else that's going on. You see how annoying the people older than you and younger than you can be.
And you make a mental note like, oh yeah, don't do that. I'm going to adjust.
The older siblings are like the canary in the coal mine. You're watching them take these big swings.
You're like, those don't work. Well, not only that, it's the parents doing it for the first time.
And so they have all of these ideas and standards that they're going to instill on their child or the child's going to fall over and scuff their elbow and they're going to freak out that some strange germ is now in their body and they're going to die. Whereas the more kids you have, the more relaxed you become, the less you care.
But my father remarried, had another child. So that's my other sister.
Yeah, two sisters, two brothers. When I was growing up, my brothers, we were so close in age.
Were they cool guys? Did they protect you in high school? Yeah, we were pretty close. But I think we were so close in age.
There were moments where it almost felt like we were fighting each other for our own identity. Of course.
Get away. These are my friends.
Not your friends. Go make your own friends.
We were constantly fighting and shooting each other with BB guns. Yeah, I'm from Oklahoma.
Yeah, yeah. It wasn't like a hostile environment.
It was just boys being boys. And my mother kind of going like, don't know what to do.
Now, in my school, there were groups of boys that were brothers. And you were like, don't fucking even talk to the Jacksons.
Because there's four of them and they're violent we weren't big enough to be formidable okay okay but we were a little rough around the edges sure scrappy who are the marston's i know it's not like i'm making this up margaret's like i don't like this christmas pageant ever yeah he wasn't hot yeah now he's a dirt bag everyone was afraid of in school baby guns yeah i kind of felt like we raised ourselves not saying anything about my parents my mom was there most of the time my father was gone a lot for work he traveled quite a bit e coli doesn't stay in the backyard does not no no no it knows no borders and he was one of those who had to get out and go chase the e coli yeah i remember him being on donahue he was on phil donahue on phil donahue remember jack in the box He is going to love me for this. Oh, the big outbreak.
Yes. That's one of the worst ever.
People died in Texas. And he was on the show explaining basically what happened.
How did he do? Was he confident? I didn't really watch it. Oh, people talking.
I've got an acting career I need to pursue. Wait, are you a hypochondriac by chance? No.
Oh, God. I'm surprised.
I would be. Well, I am, but I would be if I grew up in an environment where everyone was talking about E.
coli chasing it down. I guess because he knew so much about it, I was actually less scared of it all.
That makes total sense. He actually understood it and he could probably tell you when and when you shouldn't be afraid.
Yeah. And he was like, you're fine.
I remember I was like, dad, what's actually in a hot dog? Oh God, a god a big question he goes well actually an all-beef hot dog is better for you or cleaner than getting like a turkey dog i said what how is that he's like because in a turkey dog they roll in cartilage i don't know if they still do i was like oh okay okay so i felt like i had sort of the inside line you seem to have an inordinate fear of getting sued by i I'm just categories. Hypochondriac is fear of getting sick.
What's the fear of the lawsuit? Yeah, lawsuit. What phobia is that? It's pilotages.
Nothing against Jack in the Box. Nothing against Oscar Mayer.
Well, the best was you didn't even name Oscar Mayer, just in general, turkey dogs. I hope the turkey dog coalition doesn't write me a letter.
Come after me. I think we can say most hot dogs are just cram-packed full of everything they couldn't sell in another version.
My grandpa used to tell me, he's like, hot dogs out of Michigan. He told me Michigan had really high hot dog standards and not every state did.
Now that probably doesn't hold up. The Michigan hot dog standards.
That's exactly. Which were really high according to him.
Why would that be? Why it's so specific in Michigan? I know they have their own MBA. Is there like a big German colonization there or something? Nothing wrong with the Germans.
Well, there's plenty wrong with the Germans, but we love them. Okay, so you bounce out of school and you come to LA in 93.
You land pretty quickly some employment. This boggles me because it's just years for me trying to figure out how does one get on this television set? But you were on The Nanny really quick.
I got pretty lucky when I announced that I was going to move to LA and try to pursue this because through that family, I met a few people who were in the business. Through Cameron.
Yeah. And my father said, I think you're good at this.
My mother said the same thing. Give it a shot.
You're not going to be going out there without knowing anyone. And my father said, I went to high school with someone who moved to LA.
Now he's a very successful casting director. Oh, I wonder if he'll set you up with a proper manager or agent.
And he called the guy and I had some really nice headshots done in Oklahoma. The guy was like, well, we'll get some new ones when he gets out here.
But decent looking kid, we're going to have him button up just one more button on that. Maybe more button.
Maybe he can lose the studious eyeglasses. Character shots.
Remember? Remember that? Look, I'm holding a gun. Look at me bowling.
People that don't understand this, right? When you first moved to L.A., or if you're just in L.A., trying to pursue an acting career in the 90s or late 80s, you had to have these headshots showing you in different scenarios. Well, help people wrap their head around you as all these different occupations.
I should not be pigeonholed. I can play a gangster.
This is me in a karate gi. Exactly.
Karate gi. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.
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to get started today. So that person knew someone who was a successful and legitimate manager.
Oh God. And the guy sent me out upon arrival, like three or four auditions a day.
Oh, very, very lucky. Man.
Doesn't happen. And also my family were like like, we will financially support you for a year so you don't have to worry about pulling your own financial side of it, which I should have had to do, but I wasn't waiting tables and doing all of that.
I was focusing on making this work. Everything is aligned for success here as long as I show up.
Did you avoid ever having to get a shit job here? When I look at your resume, it seems like you could have cobbled together enough income. No, I didn't have to do that.
Wow. That's incredible.
You're a unicorn. But lucky.
Yeah, that's okay. You don't have to feel guilty.
You just have to admit it. That's all.
But I also just kind of lowered my head. You know, when you're younger too, I feel like you swing for the fences a little harder than you do when you're older because you can see how far you can fall.
You're delusional in the best way as well. I maybe auditioned for Enchanted and then you got it.
And when I look back now and photos of myself at that time versus you, and it was to play a handsome prince who comes to New York, I'm like, of course you were not in running for that. I have skills.
It wasn't that against you, not a chance. When I look at pictures of me, then I'm like, I can't even believe you went on that audition.
You can't play a prince with that nose and that skinny neck and all this stuff. Well, I mean, you're constantly trying to twist yourself, commit yourself.
Yes, that's my point is I was blessed with some delusion. I had the same thing.
I still do have the same thing. It's just like I can do that.
That creates some level of confidence, even if it's completely false confidence. Yeah, it can be built on a house of cards.
When I was young, it was borderline overly cocky. Arrogant.
Okay. I'm here, everybody.
Stop what you're doing. Yes, gather around.
What's that role? I'll take it. But then you did.
What's that role? You should give it to me. Jaws is one of my favorite movies of all time.
When I read interviews with Spielberg at the time, he was taking chances and doing things you wouldn't normally do if you had more experience he was like 24 exactly he was so fucking young but he talked about that when you're young you have a confidence that you try to hold on to if you're lucky enough to move through a career but you're also like oh shit now i know how bad i can be or how bad the job can be or how far i can fall. And so you sort of get a little bit careful.
I've gotten more scared over the course of my career. I got more comfortable just being me.
But on the other side, it's like there's roles I took then. Like idiocracy, if that came my way, I'd be like, I don't fucking think I can do that.
Yeah. And when you're younger, you're just like, I'm just going to give it my best shot.
That's right. You have to take what's there.
Absolutely. And I'm going to go to cinema secrets and buy a fake nose and I'm going to stick it on myself and I'm going to be Larry from the three stooges.
But when you get older, you're like, is it okay if I don't go on this? I don't think I'm the right guy. It's funny how it flips.
They don't think you are when you're young. You're like, let me show them.
And then people start believing in you. You're like, hold on.
Don't believe in me too much. I've done that before.
I don't think they were guaranteed jobs, but I've said no to things that I think this doesn't feel right. I don't feel like I would cast myself in this or want to see myself in this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is a hard thing to do.
And then you feel guilty. In my case, you get superstitious.
Like, well, that's the beginning of the end. You have to take every opportunity.
And the second you stop doing that, the ride will be over because you'll have gotten too big for your britches. That encapsulates what it's like to be an actor in this business.
And obviously we don't sit here and cry about how difficult it is. But you're like, OK, I finished that job.
That's it. I'm done.
Starting from scratch. They're not going to cast me again.
They realized I'm a fraud. I'm done.
I certainly felt like I was faking it. I still feel like I'm faking it, to be honest.
Well, I think you're really quite good. I think at the beginning I felt jealous of you.
There were roles I'd go out for and you would get them. And then I was jealous.
So then I was hypercritical of you because I felt insecure and was pretty sure I could have done the thing that I was mad you got. But point is, I've seen you be really fantastic on numerous occasions.
As have I, you. And I think that that's just the actor's thing.
You're just always going to go, fuck, what's that guy getting? Dax is doing this and he's so good at that and I wish I could do that. And I can't do that.
Fuck him. He's talented.

I don't belong here. I'm not worthy of it.
This person is. So I hate them.

Did you go to an acting school or something? No. Me neither.
I went to the groundlings. That's

where I learned to act is on that stage. Way more than I ever did.
I was a mimic in high school.

I would memorize standup bits and SNL sketches and do them at school and everyone thought they were kind of funny. So like, oh, maybe I'm good at this.
But that was it. You didn't have a craft.
No, I didn't go to the fancy school in Chicago with Christopher Walken and John Lithgow. But you feel like, oh shit, well, I'm just kind of faking it.
But you do learn it along the way. Exactly.
And that's okay. One early job you had that I want to ask, what did you do on Party of Five? I was on one episode of that show and it was the finale of, I think, the first season.
But I had done a TV show called Second Noah with Daniel Hugh Kelly. Did a season of the show.
We were waiting to see if we were picked up. And then I was cast as this guy, Griffin, on Party of Five, who was basically that show trying to do what my so-called life was doing at the time with Jared Leto.
Brooding, mysterious, good-looking guy. I was like, okay, well, I guess I got to get my Jared Leto impression down.
I got to grow my hair out, do a nice blowout. Were you Nev's love interest? Yes.
She was watching me drink out of a water fountain and I like walked towards her in a sort sort of sexy menacing way. Or I was trying to be sexy.
I was like, this is not me. And I was on for that one episode.
But the character was meant to be a regular. And in fact, he was a regular.
But what happened was after I did that episode, my other show got picked up and I couldn't do it. So I went back to that show.
Were you in love with Neve like I was? Yeah, of course. She Canadian? She is.
And a ballet dancer. Canadian ballet dancer.
Canadian. Did they bring in a new Griffin? Because I recognize that name.
Yes. Do you remember the London brothers, Jason and Jeremy London? Yes, I do.
From Oklahoma. No! So that role was recast I think with their love interest for sure.
He was on the show for a long time. Several years.
he should send you a little thank you card yeah i guess so okay so knowing that you think you're faking it when you get x-men in 2000 is this the first time you're in the big big leagues certainly the first time i felt like i was yeah i mean you're there with people who you recognize from movie posters right yeah excuse me take your time is there oh there's water right Yeah. Great.
I'll join right? Yeah. Excuse me.
Take your time.

Is there?

Oh, there is water, right?

Yeah.

Great.

I'll join you.

Yeah, great.

You can tell I had a little raspy voice.

Hi, James.

Yeah, so when X-Men hit,

I felt like I certainly didn't belong there.

It was Halle Berry and Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen and all these legends.

Hugh Jackman, no one knew who he was at the time,

but then became a superstar. Did you feel sandbagged by the character? You're Cyclops.
Here's what I'm thinking. I'm looking around, all these people have been doing it forever and they're professionals and some of them are legends.
I already am going to feel like I'm a bad actor and then I'm going to look at myself in my trailer right before I walk out and go, Jesus fucking Christ. They're also going to be looking at this one eye that's not my eye.
Yes. I didn't feel like a superhero put it that way uh-huh you know wearing boots that are extra healed to make me taller i was also the youngest of the group i think i was 25 or 26 everyone was not much older but older famka and you and everybody but also there was someone else that was cast in that role before you yes someone already didn't make the cut right so i was like on deck that's scary, because they've already fired one person in that role.
That would up my anxiety. I don't think it was a firing thing.
It was that person ultimately opting out of it. So you knew you were a second choice.
Yes. Was that Jeremy London? No, it was another Oklahoman.
It was Nick Nolte. Is Nolte in Oklahoma? Yeah, I think so.
Is it Brad Pitt, Oklahoma? No, he is Missouri. Raised in Missouri, but I think born in Shawnee, Oklahoma.
Don't you dare take credit. No, I think that's right.
He's a Missouri boy. I think that's right.
Shawnee, Oklahoma. She wouldn't have said it for no reason, right? Yeah, it was in there.
Give us old Bradley, will you? That's too much to give you. Give us old Bradley.
We gave you the Dust Bowl. You're already famous.
Michigan needs Brad you're already famous michigan needs yeah so there was another actor that was cast and he had gone through wardrobe fittings and everything so i was like well shit i didn't get that but i'd gone back for callbacks three or four times with famka okay well i'm as close as i can be and then when for whatever reason it didn't end up going forward i was called and then he asked if I'd be interested in going to do a role in the Superman Returns movie. First Superman movie since Christopher Reeve.
Our Superman. Yeah.
Richard Donner, Superman. I was a big fan of that.
I'll say yes to that. I'm not Superman.
I don't care. We shot that in Australia for a year.
For a year? Yeah. Yeah.
Fox Studios down there. Did you like it? I loved Australia.
Oh, I loveralia i just don't know if i'd want to be living somewhere for a year my wife at the time who was pregnant and my son who was four years old we all went down there together okay that works then you don't feel like you've paused your existence no no no exactly in a really important time as well when it was seven eight months and the baby was getting closer and closer she wanted to go back she was like was like, I want to go back to my comfort zone. Because down there, you can have different opinions on this, but they don't baby you really like they do here.
Every time my wife went to see the doctor, which is like every two weeks or something to check on the pregnancy, you would get an ultrasound. And in Australia, it was like, yeah, you're good.
Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tap on it with your fingers like, yeah, baby's doing font.

You good?

She was like, this is a little too au natural for me.

Yeah, yeah.

But they don't treat it like you're sick.

They treat it like this is the most natural thing you'll ever do.

But yeah, even in England, it's like you look at their C-section rates compared to ours.

You look at the epidural rate.

It's handled much differently.

We've really medicalized it.

Yes.

Okay, I just have a couple fun throughout your career.

You've been in so much shit, too.

I hope you're able to look back and go like, my God.

When you say shit, do you mean like...

Good stuff, good stuff, good stuff.

I don an actor. You've seen the movies I was in she's like oh you're really doing it was really funny because for the last three years i haven't acted i just do this and then mom is clearly an actor that's obvious and i think she had some understanding that maybe i fucked with it for a minute and i go well yeah and i've been in i don't know 15 movies series.
You know, I found myself defending the fact that I had actually had a career as an actor. Was she 10? Yeah.
So maybe six or seven was the last time she saw me go to a set. And you know, they don't remember when they're six or seven.
I found myself going, oh no, I've been in like 15 or 20 movies and I've been in like six series. And she's like, what are they? So I'm listing my entire resume to my 10 year old.
But I did have a moment where I went, yeah, you actually have a lot of things to say. I don't think you ever feel like you've succeeded in this business, or at least certainly I don't.
No, that's woven into the DNA of this ambition. But we're both at an age and we've been doing long enough that you actually can list things you've done for a while to your 10 year old.
And that felt kind of good. Oh, wow.
I really did do it. I have a strong case against what she thinks.
And so when I'm going through your history today, I'm like, oh yeah, that was a huge movie. And that was a huge movie.
Wow. That was a huge movie.
You've really racked up quite an impressive career. I'm sure it doesn't feel that way to you, but in black and white, it is.
It doesn't eliminate the feeling of, uh, you might not work again, but you look back and go, oh, wow. I don't know about you, but it took me a long time to get to that feeling, which is whatever your definition of if I've made it, I feel like this has been a success.
Yeah. And I'm so grateful for that.
That's hard to get to. Yeah.
Yeah. But nothing like a child that's going to humble you.
You were an actor? Sincerely. No, no, no, no.
Mom's an actor. Oh my God, we just watched Hit and Run.
It's like that movie Mom was in? Is that Mom's movie? Anyways, Hairspray. I'm deeply envious that you got to spend time with John Waters.
Was it a spectacular experience? I'm going to break your heart here, but I didn't really get to spend much time with him. He wasn't on the set much.

Adam Shankman directed it.

It was more like the Broadway musical.

He came to set a couple of times.

He did a little cameo.

Okay.

But a very good friend of mine, his girlfriend, now wife, when they were still engaged, but been together for a long time.

Wonderful people, all very open about everything.

Turkey hot dogs are great.

Yeah.

And we were at one of these Hollywood events of like GQ Men of the Year. Go ahead.
You got Handsomest Man Alive by GQ magazine. It was probably that event.
Okay. So you're at Handsomest Man Alive.
Thank you. You came right into my story.
I see the breadcrumbs you laid out for me. And I was with my son actually, who was at the time 16, 17.
I'm standing next to the girl. I've known her for a couple of years, known him longer.
And she had a couple of drinks and he had two. And she goes, I have something to admit to you.
And I said, are you okay that my son is standing here? Like, what's going on? And your future husband? And she said, the first time I ever masturbated was to you and the movie Harrison. Oh, wow.
Corny Collins? What? James, I can't imagine something more I'd rather hear. Of rather hear of course great compliment of course my mind was going into the what that character what wow check me out on party of five if you want to beat off i got long hair prince i bet a lot of people's first times was the prince could have been worse those cyclops might have been freakier yeah i don't know but I just thought that was the strangest.
It says a lot about the woman in a cool way. Also it was kind of innocent and pure.
I'm so envious that's never been told to me. It has happened my friend.
To Frito? I think there's a dude out there who has a fetish of watching an overweight man eat flat urine out of a tube while he sits on a toilet so maybe. No.
I learned this this today, but in Enchanted, it didn't make the movie or the soundtrack, but you had a duet with Idina Menzel. Yeah.
Is that intense? Like talk about LeBron playing one-on-one. Yeah.
No joke. Weirdly with music and singing, the sort of imposter syndrome wasn't as strong.
When you come to LA to be an actor, you're presenting yourself as, Hey, I'm here. I'm good.
When people don't know you can sing, the expectations aren't there. You were never declaring I'm a singer.
No, I thrive in those situations where no one's expecting anything of you. It's like when you tell them on a set, like, yeah, I could juggle on this scene.
They're like, you can juggle? Do you think anyone's listening to the last three minutes or just still thinking about the masturbation thing? I've moved on. Because I'm what are you thinking i'm thinking about her first and foremost love to meet her sure but also what an interesting thing to say to someone in front of your boyfriend he was in earshot as well and there must have been very interesting actually that he can hear that come out of her mouth that will stop him in his tracks no matter how engaged he is with somebody else.
Obviously. And I saw his head on a swivel when she said it turned.
Who wouldn't? It almost feels like a move. I'm not sure that he knew this information.
He turned and smiled. It was like, what is my girlfriend saying? And she was like, I i'm sorry i had to tell him because it's just so sweet and innocent yeah oh you're sweet and innocent masturbation yeah this is wild plus you have to see her again and then do you think about it when you see her did you then masturbate later that night at the thought of her yeah i mean this is there's a I have so many questions.
I just want to be on record applauding that she told you that. What a gift.
Well, and it wasn't steeped in shame or anything. It was like, Hey, this is a funny story.
I never thought I'd meet the person that I first, this is funny. Yeah.
And I was like, good for you for just coming out of the gates and saying that. We were friendly, but we're not best friends.

But the way she was abandoned, just like unapologetically saying.

Abandoned.

Yeah, big time.

Like if you were directing her in the scene, it's like the director had just told her, throw it away more.

Let's take that back.

This is nothing.

Yeah.

Just throw it away.

Oh, yeah.

When you did the Courtney Collins dance.

I almost forgot to tell you this.

Yeah.

The first time I remember yesterday, I was watching you.

Really good. See? That was good.
Just throw it away. Don't do that for Delta so she can know you're a great actor.
How dare you? Don't bring her up in a sentence. One more for fun.
Do whatever you want to do. Okay.
Whatever. You were great on 30 Rock.
We're going to have to move on, Monica. Sorry.
At some point. You were great as Liz Lemon's lover.
What an honor to be able to be Tina's. That was fun.
That was another moment, though. It was like, was this a mistake? There were moments where I'm like, all right, I loved the enchanted role.
I can do this. I've ripped a little bit off of movies in the past that I saw.
That was like, who came in here before me? Matt Damon, Jon Hamm. Oh boy.
All these guys and Tina Fey. And that show is a masterpiece of comedy writing.
She's intimidating. The whole experience is intimidating.
She's lovely. Had you done Anchorman yet or no? I don't think so.
Because to me, stepping onto the set of Anchorman 2, as a non-established comedian that didn't come from a comedy school, coupled with they've already done it together. Yep.
This is like a double fucking whammy. This is one of the roles that you blew my socks off oh man you're so fucking confident you look awesome in that era by the way if you had to live in an era you look so sexy in that first scene where we meet you are you in all white or something a light blue suit fucking blown out hair yeah the blown out hair sprayed as well and a lot of like flicking your wrist with the watch.
You completely hold your own with a handful of the greatest ever do it. Were you shitting your fucking blue suit? I was.
Nice of you to say all that. Comedy was always something that really ignited me.
I never really felt comfortable being a leading man guy. I was always looking for the character roles.
I wanted to be a character actor. You know, I would hear back from casting directors.
Well, they don't know you're funny. Do you feel like you were trapped in rom-com jail for a second? I was more afraid that I was getting trapped in the other guy thing where I was like the other guy who gets cuckold.
Is that it? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The good guy who she cheats on with the other guy.
X-Men, The Notebook. Oh my God, The Note that's the first time you masturbated i think you told me okay we'll circle back around to that is that what you told me yesterday no it was to ryan though let's be honest let's be honest that was my first time yeah yeah yeah but i was becoming known as the guy like you cast him even superman returns superman has left i totally understand why you would be afraid of that's like nice guy yeah like nice guy that fire isn't there in the relationship you like him enough that you feel bad he got dumped but you don't like him so much that you're not still rooting for the girl to tell him that's an interesting about me that i'm, give it to me.
Is he a fucking buffoon? He doesn't win, right? Okay. This is my comfort zone.
You're saying he doesn't get the girl? Oh, look no further. Perfect.
Hey, let's keep the expectations set. So then 27 Dresses, you're pumped because that's an enormous hit.
Huge. Yeah, that was really what I felt like was my first rom-com.
Ann Fletcher, who was one of the choreographers and very good friends with adam shankman on hairspray came in one day while we were filming hairspray and said hey i just got my first movie i'm gonna direct i said fantastic what role am i playing making a dumb joke and she laughed that fast and the next day she came in she's like you know what you should be in this movie and it's with katherine heigl she said well i want to bring you in to read with her if you can. So we did a whole reading and everything.
And then we made the movie.

It was cool.

It was an enormous hit.

Yeah.

When you're making something that's going to be a success or people are going to talk about for a while, do you know that when you're making it?

I don't ever know.

When we were making The Notebook, it was like, I think everyone's really good, but this could

be a schmaltzy bad.

And then 27 Dresses is the same.

This is probably just going to be your formula.

It's going to make $38 million and go away.

Yeah.

As most of them do.

And then it's an enormous global hit.

And then Westworld.

And I think I'm a little late on the train on Westworld. I think it had already had all the hype and the acclaim.
It is still the most watched first season of an HBO show of all time. It was just a Goliath hit.
That felt like something special before we even showed up on set. Because it was talked about like it was.
It was like, this is Nolan. The budget's going to be crazy.
Anthony Hopkins and Harris. This is all the markings of this is going to be good.
And the first season of the show was pretty transformative. It was a very cool thing to be a part of.
The only other first season I would say is as flawless as Jonah's new show, Fallout. Every episode is a fucking banger.
It's almost impossible for the first season of a show to be that way. But Westworld, that first season is just a masterpiece.
I just felt like I was along for the ride on that one. You're really great in that.
Did you get on with Jonah? We interviewed him and I really fell in love with him. I think he's the coolest dude.
Yeah. Well, you guys chatting.
There's my masturbation story. He seems Oklahoman.
Or was he? He's Chicago. Yeah.
He has that vibe. By way of England.
Great man. And Lisa Joy, his wife.
Sorry, I don't want to leave her up. They co-write on these and wonderful people.
Intimidating. Intimidating because of his intellect.
But he doesn't present as that. No, he doesn't.
You guys probably talked a lot of car stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, he rolled up in an Ariel an aerial atom i was like you're the only person that's ever done this and you'll be the last i remember going to fontana for some carting out there with him oh wonderful yeah yeah great guy might as touch brilliant writing always curious about what hasn't been done before those sets where were you that's still the most impressive world i've ever seen created yeah we were santa clarita s the most part lake pyru oh sure oh i've shot so much melody ranch but that was a really special experience it was another one of those i didn't feel as sure-footed as i had liked to because the show was so such a high level yeah everyone was perfect there was a scene in i think the fifth or sixth episode it was me anthony hopkins and ed harris and the scene was between them make no mistake i was on the verge of dying as i usually am on the show sure bleeding out you've probably died more on film than anyone else probably whether it's actual death or just being dropped by or cuckold the other woman the death of the relationship and ed and anthony they were like can we talk about this scene a bit because it's a long one and it's the first time we meet and jonah was like yeah let's all get together so the four of us got together you're like i better get in here too yeah why the fuck am i here i'm pretty sure that when i come to life for one second i think i stabbed the table with a knife or something and then just go back to sleep i'm happy to sit sit here and just listen to you guys. But they were talking about the scene.
And Jonah has this really beautiful way of answering your question without really answering it. But I think he did answer the question.
But to us, it was like, that was the most abstract. He started talking about something about the Sistine Chapel.
Oh, sure. And if you look inside the robe, I'm mess this up i guess it's god's robe but you

see the human brain inside oh and he told this really beautiful elaborate story an allegory yeah excuse me we're right in sync i need to drink and clear my throat at the same time yeah let's do it monty do you feel left out you're not drinking I'm my full voice for this podcast.

Do it.

You need to blow your nose or anything?

No. Oh, look at you.
Thank you. So I can be a part of it.
Yeah, I don't want you to feel left out. Take a big, long sip.
I'm good. Could you cough a little bit? It's the most water I've drank.
This is that time of year. Three weeks.
Okay, so he gives this kind of abstract allegory. I remember walking out with Anthony Hopkins and he turns to me and he goes, but I still don't fucking know what the scene's about.
Interesting. So that made me feel better.
That's good. Okay.
Okay. He doesn't even get it.
I've never met or worked with Ed Harris, but I have a hunch and I want to ask you. So I have worked with a single actor, which was beyond unique, Robert Duvall.
It didn't really matter how he modulated. It was true every time in a way that I just have never experienced with another actor.
And I've worked with great, great actors, but there's a couple of folks that they just cannot sound anything but true, no matter what the adjustment they're given is. I feel that Ed Harris is that person as well.
For sure. Tell me about being in scenes with him.
Does he just suck you into his bubble? Well, yeah, in a great way, but also not so much so to make you feel like you're anywhere near as captivating or as good, but you do feel like, all right, I've got to pay attention. Be really present in this.
You can see him do something different every time. But the gravitas and the focus, all of it was just effortless.
It was just like, he's not acting. I'm acting.
Yeah, exactly. I'm acting like a character.
Yeah, I've always said that. I'm making choices.
He's existing. Yes.
And you've been really nice to say nice things about roles that I've done and everything. And I still get weird, like, I don't know.
I'm not great at taking compliments because I feel that way. And I'm not trying to discredit what I've learned or what I've achieved.
But there is still that little part of you that's like, I'm acting. And there are people actors you call them actors there's a handful yeah not a lot no but those few i think that's when they say it you have it yeah yeah that's what it looks like okay but sorry and not to jump ahead we're probably maybe there now maybe maybe did you feel like that in jury duty well that's the next i know that's what i was saying okay we'll get right to it so the next most spectacular thing in the world this has got to be the greatest thing you've ever done is jury duty we have to find out how you become willing to even participate in that because talk about a fucking high risk swing i hear people say that i mean yes it was a risky high wire act let's just start with the most basic thing that you're going to go from Westworld and you're going to be on a reality show.
Yes. In case people haven't seen it, maybe we give a premise.
They need to fucking stop what they're doing and watch it. This is one of the greatest shows ever made.
I agree. There is one man who sincerely believes he's on a jury deciding a court case in Los Angeles, but everyone else is actors.
The judge is Ike Barinholtz's father. Yes.
Who was a real defense attorney. Yeah.
Yes. He's phenomenal.
He should have been an actor his whole life. He wanted to be.
He got a late break. Yeah.
He's great. Yeah.
And then this unsuspecting guy comes to find out that the actor, James Marsden, is also on the jury. Yes.
I'm sorry, but when I hear that premise, I'm like, is anyone going to believe this? I i thought the same thing and did your fear go where mine would have been which is either a they'll know me and not believe it but i think more likely this person won't know the actor do you have any fear that like oh this person might not even know who i am and that's kind of part of the premise i felt like if that were the case that would be like a gold mine for comedy for me making an ass of myself trying to get him to appreciate you are me and delta yes because that role is what i'm way more comfortable playing which is how do i make fun of what we do not in a disrespectful way pulling out the vanity the self-consumed the celebrity of it all yes and the subtle entitlement that just kind of gets dropped here and there anyway i just thought oh i'd oh, I'd love to just play this version. The doucheous version of yourself imaginable.
And it's for the most part complete fiction. But the scariest thing was, what is this show? There were no comps.
Yeah. Joe Schmo.
It was nothing like I'd done before. But my favorite show was a Curb, Larry Sanders show.
You know, where the feeling is you're not sitting here looking at the script going, oh, and instead of the and like it's got to be verbatim it's more like here's a funny outline let's make it a scene play and play with it Christopher Guest they was waiting for Guffman and Best in Show and Spinal Tap and I want to do something like that where I'm in a room full of funny people who can get on that frequency where you're like,

I see where you're going with this. I see where you're going.
And Anchorman 2 was watching those guys do that. The generosity.
It wasn't Steve trying to steal the spotlight from Will. It was them complimenting one another, setting each other up for these jokes.
And I was like, I want to do this in this sort of environment with like people from the Groundlings and UCB. And I don't think I was prepared for the other side of it, which was the choreography, the technical challenge of the whole thing.
But we were surrounded by really great people. It was Todd Schulman who did Borat and Lee Eisenberg and Gene Stepnitsky, The Office and David Bernad, a friend of mine, I've done a couple of things with him.
He's my closest friend and he was like, I have this project for you. And it's so hard to cast because it has to be someone who is willing to poke fun at himself.
People will know, but not like a superstar. And I'm like, yeah, yeah.
Okay. I'm already comfortable.
Do I lose a girl at any point? Yeah. How many times do I get dumped? Oh, in my sleep.
And I came in, there were scripts, but there was no dialogue really written because you can't, you don't know what he's going to say. You know, you can set certain scenarios up.
And I thought the scripts were so fucking funny. Brilliant writing.
And I was howling, reading them going, oh my God, I'm taking a shit in his hotel room bathroom. I'm trying to get him to take the blame for it.
Some of the swings, I can't believe you guys land. And I was on punk.
I was thinking about you all the time. Yes.
When I was watching, I was like, I know how he feels. I've been in this situation a bunch of times.
I'd argue it's the best acting you'll ever do in your life. Thank you.
That is the closest thing I ever got to. Like, I'm not acting.
The laws of cause and effect have been turned upside down. The lines between reality and fiction are blurred.
There's no second take. If you go too far, you've fucked up.
You fucked up the whole thing. That's a really interesting third element in the room at all times.
That's exactly it. And what kept it feeling so real is everything you didn't see in the show, which is everything that was cut out.
Each episode's what, 25 minutes? We were there doing this with him for three weeks. It was five, six hour days of just being in court.
Right. And in those five, six hours, you find little moments to insert the bit that's in the script.
Outside of that moment, you're fucking laying on the floor taking a real nap. Right.
In the deliberation room, not caring where the camera is. When you're acting in a movie, I'm always so aware.
You have have to be i have a great appreciation for people who are technicians and recognize okay where's your light here's my space i can kind of play in this was like free for all yeah the camera guy is just gonna follow you around whatever you're gonna do just be ready for everything and they're gonna capture all of it and some poor bastard oh he's got to edit this together that deserves the biggest yeah and i think that's where my hat goes off to those people that found the show and crafted it. They had the outlines and the scripts.
We're like, okay, these are the moments we can shave the other stuff off that we know is not going to be there. But when Ronald, God bless Ronald, like this sweetheart, man.
Listen to me. There's a lot of gifts in that show.
You're one of them, but you couldn't assemble a think tank and come up with a better person yeah because he was so kind and you never felt bad for him he's confident he's tall he's fucking generous his spirit is so positive smiling and helping people out but not a victim right this is something you just get lucky or you don't get lucky the heart of the show is what a good person ronald was yes he was and's how they sold the show to me, which is this isn't a prank show. We're not trying to make an ass of somebody other than me and the other jurors, but not him.
This is what we were calling at the time a hero's journey. And I was like, yeah, sure.
That's a pretty way of saying we're doing a prank show. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you big on cost and time.
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You know, curiosity, it is the source of our livelihood. So I'm quite fond of curiosity.
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That's 20% off your first order with code DAX at liquidiv.com. so i kind of held the writers the producers everybody in check for that we better be doing something nice here because my other concern was we're fucking with this guy for three weeks of his life that's a long time to mess with someone's human experience and to fool somebody and you're gonna forge relationships and friendships during that time and we're gonna lift the curtain yeah and he's like that was fake that was fake yeah and i know how i would feel i don't even like a surprise birthday party right not to mention like i think i'm friends with james marsden now you're telling me maybe we're not friends or feel like a total asshole you know you've been bamboozled chump yeah so my struggles were every night i would get on the phone with the producer what's tomorrow's stuff we're hitting these moments and what do i not feel comfortable with i was very firm on like i cannot turn the screws to this guy any more than just the situation itself right like i'm not going to make him the butt of any jokes because i just feel like that's where this show is going to work is if we're not mean to this guy and by by the way, it's low hanging fruit and it's very tempting.
You probably have to resist nonstop. There's a scene in the show where I ask him to do an audition tape with me to read off camera for me.
Which really quick, let that sink in. If you haven't seen the show, a non-actor, I think he sold either solar panels or wind.
I think it was solar panels. He's going to be asked to act in a scene with you for an audition.
And just imagine you with zero acting experience being asked to act with James Morrison. What a mensch that he's even willing to do it.
Yeah. And he got so into it.
At the beginning of the show, he didn't really know exactly who I was. I think he recognized me.
He's so kind. He recognized you and then actually did some research to help you feel good.
He couldn't do that until we were done with the first day of shooting. Right.
So we had a woman that was planted there in the check-in room or whatever. And this was part of the script.
In case he doesn't recognize me, this woman's going to come over and ask for a photo. So that he goes, why are you getting your photo taken? And then she took a photo and he still didn still didn't say anything he just got a thinking and so then i get to play with it and be like oh boy this guy just socks over there and i thought they said sonic on it i'm in this movie sonic and you know so i'm like doing that whole bit and then he just completely innocently goes oh oh yeah you were inside i heard that was not a good movie and i was like don't fuck this up now because this is perfect.
This is perfect. This is what you were after.
Yes. Yeah, exactly.
He felt bad about that later, which made me feel bad. Of course.
Because of already knowing what we're doing to this guy. But it was such a mensch.
It's such a sport. When you tell somebody the premise of the show, you're like, come on.
He had to have known. What about the cameras? There's cameras everywhere.
Well, he was told that we were making a documentary about the court system is serving jury duty. He just thought it was going to be boring and then just happens to be this actor guy who's also stuck on it.
And he's so self-absorbed. He's going to stay and allow himself to be on camera is because he thinks this documentary might qualify for an Emmy or something.
You know, some dumb reason like, all right, well, I'll be on camera. Because normally I've got a quote.
But yeah, I was worried about doing something traumatizing to him for the rest of his life. This hero's journey.
You know, if you're celebrating someone's good character or their humanity, this is a pretty unconventional way of doing it. Yeah.
Right? You're punching somebody in the face. And when they don't punch you back, you go, you you go you are a good person exactly there were conversations about he seems to be a good sport

he seems to be handling it good and he talks to people afterwards and seems to be doing good and

i'm like all right well just keep an eye on him because this doesn't feel good to me i love playing

with all the comedy everything but i'm just worried that this guy's gonna have a breakdown after this

so every day was like all right let's be nice to this guy first of all in that audition scene i

could feel that the creative minds behind the show were kind of like, get him to act bad. But they weren't saying it.
There's just a feeling. Well, it's right there.
It's right there. Like you said.
They've been writing comedy forever. And it's very obvious.
This is the move. And I was like, I just can't do that to this guy.
One, he's a great guy that I should be more like. Yeah, totally.
You know, and two, you punch him below the belt. It's not level playing field here.
Yep. It actually was way better than he was good.
Yeah, it was great. Yeah.
And I got to play with him a little bit and like, it's kind of all about what I'm doing in this. And then once we start, I'm like, hey, can you adjust that just a little bit? Yeah.
But I would always try to do it in a real way. You handled it so well.
When you see in your mind this project that you're working on, the best version of it. You're like, this is what we're going for.
I don't know if we're going to get there. But if I see that and I just kind of follow that, then I'm jumping out of bed in the morning to go to that fucking courtroom in downtown L.A.
somewhere. Yeah.
But I also kind of felt like, well, shit, I've really never been trained in improv grounding stuff. I feel like I can do it because I've been such a

fan of that for so long. Yeah.
But I don't know if I can. We had a, boy, I don't even know if I'm

allowed to say this, but I guess maybe there's a statute of limitations on what I can say. I'll

check after. Okay.
But we had a test run. We do the first day and that's it.
And the judge comes

out and was like, we settled.

Everyone go home.

Just to kind of see.

Yeah, to burn it.

It's a mulligan.

A rehearsal.

See if we can get to his first day.

And the guy looked like he was having a nervous breakdown halfway through the day.

Uh-huh.

Sweating.

Oh, no.

Because we did this bit where as he walks from the parking lot after a little on the

fly interview, he witnesses a woman pulling a stroller out of her car and she accidentally smashes the window of the car next to her well it's all been planned obviously and that's the judge's car and he witnesses it and a sweet guy comes over and like i'm so sorry are you okay and she's like yeah i'm just frazzled and i don't know what happened here and he didn't know what to make of it because here he is like now starting his first day on this documentary about jury duty and something really strange is happening then we get into the courtroom judge leaves for a while comes back with like a bandage around his hand someone like baronald's father with a Chicago accident broke into my car did anyone witness what happened to my car?

Someone stole my Eagles CDs.

Oh, no.

Oh, my God.

It was a hilarious bit, but he was shitting himself and like beet red.

It was a lot.

Sweating.

Yeah.

He turned to me and he just looked like he was really, really panicking.

And he said, what do I do?

I said, what do you mean?

He was like, I saw it happen.

And the woman looked really nice, but I didn't know she would steal a CD. Oh, no in my head i was like okay well this is just a rehearsal and nothing's worth someone actually having a genuine yeah coronary right yes and i just went just maybe go tell the bailiff i wasn't supposed to do that i was supposed to continue on with what our narrative was yeah i was like no yeah i course, was in that situation several times myself.
Yeah. Tell me, man, did you ever get into moments where you're like, I just don't think I can do this to somebody.
You weren't deliberately mean. By the way, same thing.
Often the premise was, and as the show went on and I had more leverage, I was less and less willing. I can give you a great example.
It was one of the last episodes we shot. In fact, there was one of the only ones we ever shot after it aired because so many people were watching it.
They were naturally afraid I couldn't do it anymore. So I had a wig and a mustache and all this stuff.
And it was a NFL celebrity golf tournament. And I got there on the day and I had my wig on and I go, okay, so what's the bit? And I'm like, okay, you're going to sit down with this guy.
He just cheated on his wife. You're going to bring that up.
Cause they had been told you have to sit down for interviews at certain holes as part of this charity event. They were just all very mean.
It was like airing people's dirty laundry. And I go, I'm not going to do it.
It was too late for them. I had enough leverage at that point.
And they go, what the fuck are we going to do? And I go, give me 20 minutes and i'll think of some shit i convinced jerome bettis to tackle me on camera and then yeah the bus and pretended my back was broken and he believed it and panicked so that was funny garcia they wanted me to talk about him being gay which was a rumor right and i'm like i'm not doing that so i told him mr gar, you're listed as 6'2", 220. A lot of young people in America here trying to grow up and be you.
But we just shook hands. And I'm 5'9", and I'm taller than you.
So how do you explain that? Why are you lying? And it becomes this whole thing. We're standing back to back.
Poor guy's defending his height, which is preposterous. I'm claiming I'm 5'9".
And then another guy who I had heard had one of the bigger egos in the league. Every 40 seconds in the interview, I kept touching my ear like I had a earpiece in.
I'm so sorry. We're going to, who are we going to? And I would list players that were much lower status than him.
And I kept cutting away. And then he kept giving up on the interview and I kept getting them back.
I'm so, so sorry. That wasn't my choice.
And I just do this over and over again. So, you know, that's what I came up with.
But I'm not bringing out their dirty laundry or allegations that they're gay or all this other stuff that, again, is just low hanging. Right.
And I'm sure that all of those guys are afterwards are like, actually, you know what? Yeah. When Jerome Bittes finds out my back is not broken, he's delighted.
He thought for a second he's going to get sued by some Canadian reporter in a wig. And it's celebrities.
That's the inverse of what you're doing. The other thing I was going to add is I was also far more desperate.
You're already at a point where you've had a big career and you're financially fine. That was my first time on TV.
So I was also willing. My moral standard was probably much lower than it would be today.
I remember having this conversation with one of the producers who had also worked on Borat, you know, all of Sasha's stuff. And he was like, if you're a really good guy, this might not be for you.
Oh, right, right, right. And he didn't say that directly at me, but it was kind of like, this is fucking hard.
How do you navigate getting the comedy people actually want to see? Yes, it's at the expense of somebody. The nature of the show is that yeah that's why this show was so awesome is ronald just shined it made you love him i was happy for him that he got to display what a wonderful beautiful human being is like yeah i think everyone who saw is like i would love to be friends with that guy that's a good person and that's what actually happened was we all became actual friends during it because he was such a good guy and fun to be around there were moments we were like shit i don't know if i can do this bit to him today because he's gonna kind of go like well that's an asshole thing for you to do here when we were just chatting about all of our favorite movies and favorite childhood memories and we would have have real conversations in between the bits that we had to hit that day.
Yeah, of course. And then you sort of draw him in.
And he draws you in. You do all the awful things, which is gain someone's trust.
Exactly. And then take a giant shit on it, literally.
But did you talk to him after? And were you like, hey, man, how are you? I mean, I was the most nervous when ike's father turned to him and said this is all fake and for a split second i saw his eyes kind of go dark and scared for like a millisecond trying to compute probably yeah exactly and i hated that yeah and i already knew what i was gonna do and we all were gonna do was storm the box where he was sitting and just let him know. Yes, this is probably a lot to comprehend and to take in and process right now.
But if you're wondering if all of this was real, this was all real. And we adore you and love you.
The last thing I want to do is like, okay, that was fun. Cool.
See you around. Give me your number.
Let's hang out. Let's have a wrap party.
I don't even know if we were going to do that at first. Like, let's have a fucking party with this guy.
He's perfect. Reassure him that, yes, we took you along for a ride, but you are a shining star in this.
And here's what the show is about. And it's about you, my friend.
And everything about you that people are going to love about you, we love about you. And so it was a love fest after that because I really was like, is it going to be an insult when we hold up a check for 150 whatever he got paid like that lets us off the hook somehow yeah right yes can the two coexist can we find really really funny moments and have this be a comedy and also be kind can we be celebrating this dude while we're exactly in an organic way It was the tightrope of all tightropes.
And it really landed. And we would have hated it.
I did not like the second Borat. I was like, these are nice people who trusted him and offered to bring him in to the house.
And now we're. Yeah, I don't like it.
He's brilliant at what he does. But if he's going into an antique shop and breaking everything in the antique shop, I'm sure most people out there find that hilarious.
And I was like, I know. But it's funny how when it's somebody you feel like deserves it.
Yeah. Right.
You know, justice. I'm more OK with it.
But this guy was just so pure. Yeah.
OK, so Paradise. I took a huge gamble last night and started watching the screeners that were sent to me with my whole family.
The aforementioned 10 year old and her older sister, who's 11. And then Kristen, you're the president.
This is your second time being a president. You were JFK.
Yeah. Have you been a president a third time? No, just two.
Okay. That's a bad signal of your aging, by the way.
That's plenty. Right.
That's like, you know, when you get hired to be the president, you're like, okay, I guess I'm not 30 anymore. I guess I'm not going to prom anymore.
Sterling K. Brown is your secret service.
And Kristen, within about eight minutes, started going, my God, this chemistry is white hot. I almost want him to kiss the chemistry so good.
So first out of the gates was the chemistry between you guys is incredible. He's so awesome.
Yeah, he's something else. What a fucking beast of an actor.
He's one of those Ed Aris. Yeah.
He's one of those like, you were born to do this. And I found my favorite male physique.
Oh, circles all the way back. And Adonis, the guy.
We meet him with his shirt off. Thank God.
You don't make me wait. We like to hook him early.
Okay. So right out of the gates, you're kind of a rogue president.
You're young. You're rich before you even got there.
You kind of want to coast through your next four years and crazy series of events happens. We're now flashing back for a lot of it but the true premise of the show

doesn't even hit us to the end and my kids don't do well with blood and there's some blood and

i'm reassuring them i think this will be the only blood and then we're going to investigate this for

most of this show which they were able to get through and then they were so fucking hooked that

we had to stay up till midnight last night going on dan fogelman wrote it who did this is us

Let's tough. I've been actually coached on this.
That makes sense. I assumed.
Because you have to know that Dan Fogelman, one of his signatures is twists and turns. It's really an exploration of power dynamics, relationships, choices you make in life and loyalties.
I speak like Nolan now and just speak really vaguely about the brain and the robe on the Sistine Chapel. I can say this.
You're in a community that appears to be designed. It made me think of, I know there's some communities like Gulf Shores, Alabama, where it's like the whole thing was constructed to have its own convenience store in its own neighborhoods.
Yeah, Little Pleasantville. That's a great one.
It's very Truman Show. It's very Pleasantville.
And it just has the greatest turn at the end of the pilot. You see the trailers and it's like, this is a political thriller.
And it's really not about politics. The only thing I didn't like about it was I'm watching how much you drink and smoke.
And I'm like, we don't have this physique at 50 if we're drinking and smoking that hard. I mean, we do see you working out.
So I guess you're pushing through like, oh, speaking of which, Mr. Dax, Mr.
Dax. Oh, that's pretty damn good.
That's pretty good. Pretty good.
I heard you doing it. And I was like, this guy's got the rhythm.
He understands the essence. He knows about the spirit.
He understands. That's fucking really good.
It's a tough one to do because the hardest impression is the one that everybody feels like they can do a little bit of. Arnold and Walken.
But that one like how do you get the little extra bits in there I did this movie with Woody Harrelson and he had just done true detective with him so he came to set with all these Matthew isms and I just soaked it all up and like no he didn't say that yes he did brother he wouldn't believe it he wouldn't believe he said they're best pals say what you said to woody though what did i say to woody because i love that you spelled it out there oh yeah he said uh why don't we head on over to my air stream make it margarita blow your horns off blow your arms up yours is really solid i think yours is the only one that I've heard that I think is really spot on. I just felt like everybody did it.
Matt Damon's pretty great. He does one.
Yeah, he does one. But that's sort of making the viral rounds.
Three years later or something, people are like, oh, you're doing great, McConaughey. And three or four months ago, I think Matthew posted it on his Instagram.
Like, oh, McConaughey. That's kind of cool.
McConaughey. I know hege and marge's got there he's got to go check it out and do the ashes and the whole that's pretty fucking cool all right i'll take it i know i've struggled with the fact that i've kind of become buddies with him and i'm like am i supposed to hang this up or am i gonna keep pushing i've decided to keep pushing i've even sent him messages as him he's got a great sense of humor about it he leans into it it's a green yeah, he's another one that's in shape.
That's what made me think of it. Because my first conversation with him is I said, listen, I'm overly obsessed with drinking because I'm an ex-addict.
And I've got a handful of people where I'm like, did they slide through? Are they the one unicorn? I go, I know the stories of you drinking and I know you're up at five working out. Do you just have some kind of constitution? He goes, yeah, I guess I got a constitution.
Some of my favorite workouts, I wake up hung over, not pushed through. And then, you know, you feel that break and you're on the other side of it.
Those are some of my favorite workouts. Cause at night when I'm going to go for it, I look in the mirror and I say, we're going to go hard tonight, but you're going to wake up tomorrow morning.
You're going to hit that gym. You're going to do eight miles.
And that's how it's going to be. He makes a deal with himself.
And I'm like, yeah, you just have a fucking constitution. I didn't have it.
I slept till two. Some people can just do that.
I think he's totally normal now, but he used to go hard and he'd show up for everything. And he looked fucking great.
So you're right. It could be done.
This president could be McConaughey. I didn't think about that.
Maybe he's got the waking up at 5 a.m. Get on the booty burner.
Burn off these LBs and creeping around the wayside. I can't really describe the show other than to say it's fantastic.
When you pulled up, we were watching it it's the holiday so they're not at school i can promise you we'll have binged this entire thing within 48 hours it's a fucking banger of a show that's awesome i appreciate that and uh i've had this tickle in my throat for three weeks a long time annoying because my voice is not fully there it still sounds really nice and i just made you do McConaughey. You can kind of use the voice for that one.
Do you have a word that gets you into it? Because mine is, first time I talked to him, he came up from maybe his behind me, Mr. Dax.
Mr. Dax.
Mr. Dax.
That's the S's, isn't it? Yeah. The old Texas whistle.
Really good. But back to Nolan, it has a lot of parallels with Fallout.
A lot of these shows are starting to tackle in subversive ways income inequality everyone's got the sense it's like wait some people are living one way in this country and the rest are living dramatically different and i think art's starting to tackle that in a not so obvious way but in other ways that's the answer i wish i had in my mouth when you asked the show's on. Because that's really it.
It's class. It's power dynamics.
It's giving everybody a snapshot of like, what if, and is this happening now? Again, you watch the trailer and you're like, okay, this looks like a murder mystery. I'm laying there dead.
The murder is a mislead. It's an appetizer.
It's the backdrop. So it's a tough one to talk about for sure without spoiling it.
How have we done, Monica? Do you want to watch it? Yeah, very badly. Or she's like, I don't care.
I don't know anything. Neither one of you said anything about the show.
No, it sounds exciting. Sterling, I guess.
Sterling has his shirt off. Titles, Paradise.
I think I got that part, right? It's Paradise. Well, that son of a bitch is on Hulu.
That son of a bitch. That son of a bitch is streaming.
Son of a bitch on Hulu. You can be streaming, streaming.
You can stream it. You can stream, stream.
Yes, on Hulu. Officially the hardest project to talk about.
Maybe other than Westworld. This is your niche.
Shit you got to go out and promote and you can't. Great.
And I don't have the brain to do it anyway. I can't tell you.
I don't know. So I have no answer for your question.
It's filled with some good twists and turns and there's a little lost in there as well. The audience is going to be trying to figure out what the hell's going on through the whole thing.
Is it a week to week drop or are they all out? Do we know? Because that makes a difference in a mystery. Maybe I asked my old contact at the old Hulu.
I think they're dropping the first two or three. And then you're going to have to wait every week.
Give me your thoughts on that. I like it.
I'm back to liking it. I hate it and prefer it.
Because I'm annoyed and then I love that it gives me 10 weeks of enjoyment instead of one night. Something to look forward to.
I'm going to sound really old now but when you live in the world where you can just get it whenever the hell you want it, no one's being told no anymore. Like there's a good thing to limits.
Even in entertainment I think it's a good thing too. Like you know when the Beatles came out.
You didn't get all their albums at once. No, you no you didn't get them at once probably impossible to see them live you got a couple songs before the album even came out like it built up to now i can go get the whole album or movies back in the day where they would come out and you would have to wait six months to see it again i feel like there's something about the psychology of that that makes us enjoy it more or you even think something's better than it is because of that it's's delayed gratification, which ultimately is always good.
But if you don't buy into that, just fucking wait till March 28th. They'll all be out and then you can sit down and plow through.
Options yours. Yeah, you can do whatever you want at that point if you really want to fly through it.
However you want to consume it, consume it. Well, Marzen, this has been a blast.
I love bumping into you. We as actors, I feel like we're kind of somewhat solitary lives or can until the award shows, the events that everybody goes to.
Which is the weirdest place to meet someone. Always the weirdest.
It's like, oh, hey, bud. Hey, bud.
And everything feels... Contrived a little bit.
A little bit. Well, you know the most telling thing I walked away with after the Golden Globes this year is I just had this moment where I realized, oh, everyone I talked to told me I looked great.
And I told everyone they looked great. And that's a weird thing.
But everyone's nervous they don't look good because they're going to be in photos and then on TV. So it's like you want to comfort everyone you see.
You look great. And they're saying you look great.
And then I leave and I'm like, these are some of the greatest artists in the world. And what we're telling each other is that we look great.
This is a little not. I imagine that must be insufferable.
It's just a lot. I think it's a good note.
That is what everyone's afraid of. That's the insecurity at those things.
I can always handle so much of it. I wanted to go like, I'm in a tux.
I don't even deserve that. I look the way I look at every one of these.
I can't look good or bad. The way you feel about that is the reason why I want to rush to your side at these events.

They're like, this is a real human being.

So it's nice to see you outside of all this BS

that we do. I didn't tell you you looked great when I

saw you at F1. Please don't.
By the way,

you always look great. I know, you don't even have to say it.

It feels redundant to tell you.

The easiest path to my heart is insult me.

I can be honest. There's one thing I did think

at F1 a few times. I had this thought.
I was like, Marzen's kind of classy. I literally had that thought.
I got you. He's like kind of dressed pretty nice at this thing.
And he's got like a nice watch. I think he's classier than me.
He represented a watch. That's classy as hell.
Woke up in a dark room and fell into a closet. It's a race.
Why am I wearing a pinstripe seersucker? Because you look rad. Why wouldn't you? All right, James.
Do your buddies ever call you Jimmy? Yeah. Oh, okay.
So can I apply? When I see you, can I call you Jimmy? You may. I don't know why or when I changed that.
I mean, name was always James, but I grew up. My mother and my brother's sisters called me Jimmy.
And then when I got to LA, I was in that phase where... You want to be serious? Yeah, I got to take that.
I mean, the name was always James, but I grew up, my mother and my brother's sisters called me Jimmy. And then when I got to LA, I was in that phase where you want to be serious.
Yeah. I got to be taken seriously.
So I don't want to be in the teeny bop magazine. So it would be James.
Little Jimmy Marsden. Yeah.
I think the first year I was here, the projects I did do like Boogie's Diner with Jim J. Bullock, which is like a saved by the bell knockoff.
It was billing as Jimmy Marsden. So when I hear somebody say Jimmy, I'm like, oh, that person's known me for a long time.
It isn't it. This is the most subtle way to reclaim and integrate who you were.
That's what I think is sweet about it. You come here, you're trying to hide who you were because you're afraid that that would expose you as not belonging here.
And then at a certain you have some confidence and you go i'm gonna start reintegrating the person i tried to distance myself from as a kid yeah i think that's like part of your journey as a man yeah i totally see that why am i shoving that aside i'm not trying to be so serious anymore and it wasn't that silly well jimmy i can't wait yeah jimmy well ds jimmy yes baby all right we'll come back this was a blast i absolutely will and hopefully have my whole full voice when i return oh i can't wait the whole interview will be mcconaughey you might just hit that one out yeah that wasn't riveting to you no i it. I can only handle it in small chunks.
She works with me every day and I'm constantly doing somebody's voice. He can't stop.
I'm like her little brother and her dad. It's very confusing.
A lot of dynamics at play. I'm juggling a lot of identities.
So you've got a frequency for him that you can kind of turn down. I do tune it fully out.
And it's so obvious. I can see in her face the second I've lost her, which is quite regularly.
All right. Well, be well, everyone.
Check out Paradise. He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time.
Think God Monica's here. She's gonna let him have the facts.
Do you feel extra fresh on your way to this award show to look extra stylish? That's a great. Because I feel like you look extra stylish.
Because of my big pants. You were wearing an inclement weather jacket when you came in that you denied was a rain jacket.
Look, I understand why you think it's a rain jacket. Because of the noise it was making.
It was a shh, shh, noise it was making yeah kind of windbreakery material

ish yeah yeah um i bought it vintage so it could have been a rain jacket oh a great yeah sustainable sustainable yeah um doing your part do better yeah so bts um i'm going from this thank you you You rearranged the time a couple of times, which is very nice.

Didn't mind one bit.

Because you're betrothed. Yeah.
Kristen is hosting the SAG Awards this year. Correct.
The Screen Actors Guild's Awards. That's right.
And she asked if I could come in. Once again, return.

Once again, that's right.

Because she was the first host ever.

2018.

That's right.

And so I wrote her stuff back then.

And so she asked if I could come and do that. Out of retirement.

Yeah, exactly.

And do that for her.

And of course I said, yes.

So we are about to go shoot a promo for it.

Right.

I didn't really think about being extra stylish because it's not a fashion campaign.

No, but it's, I don't know.

It's a shoot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, maybe subconsciously.

Subconsciously.

Yeah.

New group of people.

Minimally, you want to put your best foot forward.

Yeah. I want to be cool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm tired.
Oh, great. Me too.
Why are you tired? I'm tired because of a big ding, ding, ding. What? I started Paradise last night.
This is for little Jimmy Marsden. Oh, oh, baby Jimmy Marsden.
Yeah. Okay.
The first three episodes are on Hulu. Oh, okay.
And I was so in. What a concept, right? Yes.
I was so in. And then I panicked because I needed more.
Oh. And we have screeners.
Yeah, yeah. We're lucky enough to have screeners.
And even though it is my stance, like with Severance, that I don't, I learned, quote, learned my lesson from Only Murders in the Building. And because I watched all of those in one night.
No, you didn't delay your gratification enough. I didn't because they only give you so many.
And then you have to wait a really long time. So I promised to myself I wasn't going to do that with Severance.
And I haven't. Good job.
But with Paradise, I did. I watched all of it.
All of it. Except I didn't know they were going to do the same thing.
They always do this. It's not the end.
Right. Again, I only have seven episodes.
Oh, that version. I thought you were saying that the season finale ended on a cliffhanger or something without a resolution.
No, there's eight episodes. We got seven.
Yeah. Well, this happened, of course, with Severance.
Yeah. And then we started hounding Adam.
Well, actually, when we did the podcast, they offered to get us the remaining three. But then that never happened.
Right. I mean, those are under real lock and key, I got to assume.
Oh, that brings me to another thing. Actually, remaining four.
So anyways, we've been hounding him, leaving aggressive messages. And I think they just came in, but they came in in a different screening platform, which every time.
Yeah. I know it's such a baby thing to complain about.
It is. But it takes sometimes 90 minutes to sign into these screening apps because you have to use the Google Authenticator.
You got to get a text. You got to do a magic link to another website.
You're on your phone, but you realize an email has come through and you need to see the email. But you follow the link through the original email.
I know, it's a lot. So you need like two or three devices going at once.
All to say I'm finally in on Apple screeners and it's easy but the next batch are on a different one oh okay so that's almost been a hurdle enough for me to slow it down yeah well not almost it has been I watched the first two I'm caught up on severance right and you're not ahead at all god it's good yeah it's's so good. But you love, though, Paradise? I love it.
What a hook, right? Yeah. We ran into this problem in the episode where you can't really say anything.
I know. So that's just frustrating for people.
But I'll just say I watched seven episodes last night. That says a lot.
Yeah. I think that's enough of a testament to how good it is.
And everyone's great. He's great in it.
Jimmy Marsden? Yes. Yes, of course.
He really, he really. I was saying, you know, he's just legitimately good.
He is. He is very natural and he plays that character very well.
But I love that he was acknowledging. He's like, I just think I'm acting.
Yeah. He's like, I'm always acting.
Yeah. That was really refreshing because you can also be really good even if you have that feeling.
Yes. You can let yourself off the hook.
Yeah. I don't think everyone's having the experience that Dan Lewis and, you know, some of these others are having.
I know. We don't know.
Maybe he feels like lewis yeah well he is acting i mean he well exactly he's not even yeah there's no him there if ever there was some acting he's morphing he's channeling he's transcending yeah he's uh got a liberal arts education i want to give a shout out to lincoln, they had their last soccer game last night and they had a perfect, they achieved their perfect season. Wow.
Zero goals. Zero.
They didn't, they didn't. Zero goals.
Yeah. Zero.
They scored zero times and it got close. I got scared.
There was a, there was finally a kick on goal last night and it almost went in. I kind of panicked like,, oh, don't mess up your record.
Wow. But what's great is I think the girls, too, had a good sense of humor about it.
They joked about having a perfect season at this point. That's funny.
Yeah. But this is tied in because a good friend of mine who works at HBO was there, and he was talking about having just watched episode eight of White Lotus.
Oh, my God. And I had an envy.
It brewed up in me. Yeah.
Oh. He's allowed.
He's going to be killed. Well, he's the producer.
He has to watch them. Now that you said it, he's going to be killed.
This is an Easter egg for an upcoming episode. Yeah.
Yeah. Truly.
A couple episodes from now. Five or six episodes from now.
So TV is doing great right now. It's doing great.
We're fine. We have some big shows coming back, which is a huge relief.
I felt like it slowed down quite a bit there, but we got some offerings now and I feel comforted by that. I do want to do 40 seconds of navel gazing and then I'm going to, I'll table all the navel gazing for some period.
But people, as you would probably guess, a lot of people felt very strongly with the point of view you were making. I guess it would be two fact checks ago.
Aaron was previous fact check. When we had our discussion about being authentic and sharing Oh, entertaining and a respite.
So, you know, people supported us on both sides. Yeah, I support us on both sides.
Me too. I only want to be clear about one thing.
Neither of us are pitching all sadness or all entertainment. We're both some balance yeah and i think most importantly people should know there's no pressure for us to be making it anything yeah some people were nervous about that my goal is for it to have the balance it's always had and i know it's your goal too we both have the same goal of having the balance we've always had yeah And then we have differing opinions on, you know, sometimes.
To me, it will hopefully and not always. But I trust that it will always strike that balance because of the nature of our dynamics.
So even when there's sadness or bad things or hard things, we talk about that. but then something funny will come up or something light

will come up too. And that's life.
And that's true to us. And so.
Okay. And then the last thing is,

and I've said this before, probably in interviews and stuff, and I don't know if I've ever said it

explicitly on here. There are people saying really heartfelt and moving things like,

you have to understand we value your perspective on this.

It helps us process the thing going on. And I mean, mostly people are feeling that way about me not commenting or spending a lot of time on the election or the first week.
I just want people to understand why that's my position, which is I would never want a young dude who voted for Trump, who's a sexual abuse survivor, to not feel welcome here. I would not want an addict that voted for Trump to not feel welcome here.
I just have a certain purpose that's clear to me. and part of that purpose is I don't want anyone to feel unwelcome.
And I think if I hunkered down on either side of the political spectrum, I would just be kind of disinviting half the people. And so I hope people understand that's where it's coming from.
It's not like just an obstinance or a, is that the right word? Yeah. Yeah.
And I want to talk about it. It's just i i want everyone to feel welcome yeah that's it for me to me and if you if you take it from the perspective of this is a sort of an aa meeting type setup then yeah you would never i don't think say you can't come here right anyway that was my navel gazing got it yeah i can move on now well back to paradise.
Um, little Jimmy come here. Right.
Anyway, that was my navel gazing. Got it.
Yeah, I can move on now. Well, back to paradise.
Little Jimmy's fantastic. And now I feel comfortable calling him that after watching the show.
After watching the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Did it make you want to smoke and drink? No. Well, I already drank, so I got that one down.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It did not make me want to smoke.
Did I tell you about one of my favorite birthday presents I got? What? From Matt and Laura. Oh.
It's a wooden box with a glass face and a little hammer and the glass says break in case of emergency and behind it is a pack of camel cigarettes. That's fun.
Isn't that great? That's great. What a great gift.
That's a really good gift. me up and I like it.
Yeah. And I will break it in case if like something, if they go, the meteor is going to hit earth in eight hours.
I'm going to get it, rip them out. I know.
I've been thinking about what to do in the last hour. Oh, uh-huh.
If some bad event is happening yeah do i try to get to safety well this like jess and i were talking about the or maybe we talked about it here also but during the fires we were thinking you know who oh we said with josh on josh gad's episode like who are you on the titanic which person are you right right right right are you the person who's really trying to figure out how to get off? Are you the person helping arrange people to get off? Are you those people who just they're like drinking wine as it's going down? I mean, we sort of said that was going to be us. Yeah, I was like, I'll be playing the cello still.
Yeah. So I wonder, I wonder.
What you would do and if i'm gonna try to like save myself or just have a cocktail you know what good ride yeah yeah it's been a great ride for eric and i this topic comes up in for eric and i it's always so simple so clear to us how you'd want to die because you want to OD on opiates because you'd be feeling very blissful and then you just wouldn't wake up. Yeah.
Yeah. Most addicts kind of have the same.
I hear people, well, I guess I'd want to, I guess get shot. That's fast.
Or, you know, die, fall off a building. I don't want to drown.
I'm like, what about a nice, gentle send off? I think that's the preferred. I kind of agree.
Oh, I've done some doctoring on myself as I tend to do. And I think I was complaining about it last fact check.
I've been seemingly sick for like eight weeks, something like this. And then when we were in Mexico, it's the elevation is quite high.
So my nose was kind of bloody and dry. And then when I got back, it was really, really bad.
And so I was like, what cold do I have? I was thinking, thinking, thinking. And all of a sudden it occurred to me yesterday morning.
I'm like, oh my gosh, you know what might be happening? I started thinking of my nasal passages like an anal fissure. Oh.
Like I blew it out so bad. Honk, honk, honk.
You know, I'm really going at it.

Yeah.

Try, you know.

Oh, yeah.

Way too aggressively.

We're like, I had my eye bulged out at one point in Mexico.

Oh, God.

It's like, we got to throttle back on this exhaust because it's pushing on your eyes or whatever.

So it occurred to me, maybe I just just like i have a lot of damage in there

the body's sending white blood cells to heal it which is snot and then i'm honking that out a second and i'm just in this endless loop of trying to repair so yesterday i'm like you're no longer allowed to blow your nose and monica of all the things i've done quit cigarette you know anything This one's crazy hard.

What about.

Because I've been blowing.

It's definitely a tick now. It's definitely like any time I feel it, I have to do it.
Yeah. It's a thing.
Yeah. And I have to just not blow my nose.
I, of course, did have to blow my nose because it's still building. That's what I'm saying.
How about twice twice a day i probably hit it about six times yesterday oh but down from probably 600 the day before yeah and so and i'm only allowed to basically go like like if i have to blow harder than that to get it out i'm not oh i see so that's i can even just like talk a lot and say hopefully i'll just worried stuff's going to start coming out? Of course. Yeah.
And guess what? It's not. And already it's stopped dripping as much.
Wow. So I really think thus far this diagnosis might be on.
I think that's good. Yeah.
Is it bad to have tissues right there? That feels very taunting. Right.
Like a little mirror and a straw yes it's not very

you should move that out my old friend i'd be so happy to say goodbye to that old friend i mean we do we've talked about this you are obsessed with the tissue box like for you that's a that is an indicator of whether it's a nice hotel or not oh yeah yeah yeah absolutely yes And I've never noticed it.

I never notice it.

It's also, it has reared itself in like photos I'll take in post. And I think people sometimes call out like I it looks a little perverse to always have a box of tissues with you.
Oh, my. It looks like I'm always about to or just finished self pleasuring.
Do you have a deviated septum? Yeah. Go to show what an addict I am.
I can even get addicted to blowing my nose. I am proud of you for noticing and stopping.
And I will say I'm grateful. It's a lot to cut around.
And on video, it wasn't an issue before, but now we're seeing it. And so I do have to tell, I do have to make it clear, like never be on a shot.
You can never be on a shot when Dax is blowing his nose. I've made that okay that's one of the edicts to the editors okay um it did just make me think you don't you almost never see anyone blow their nose in a movie unless they're playing exactly super sick sure and it's very over the top they're like tongue acting their nose yeah they're like this they're like this It's like, oh, honey, did you bring up? Did you bring up? Their voice is always like that.
No, I didn't. I wasn't able to stop and get it.
Yeah. You know, it's more of a.
You booked it. I booked it.
You booked it for the show. Oh, thank you.
Thank you. That was good.
And occasionally you'll see this too. You'll see in a movie, you'll see a woman go into a person then.
Of course. She course she's really sad she's very sad but i can't think of a time i've seen robert de niro blow his nose is it really unsettling when when you've seen it on video because obviously i've never seen it is it like my drumming face it's a bad look i mean no one wants the it's like you just said we don see it.
So it's very it is like I'm not supposed to see that. It's like someone wiping their butt.
And it feels like, oh, he just like really just doesn't give a fuck. OK, sure.
There's like some subtext to it. He just really doesn't care.
But that's not it. Of course, it's just that you're in the zone.
Yeah. And I'm pretty sure it's going to start rolling out of my nose.
But it is a tip. I have noticed and I do think it's gotten worse or more.
I wouldn't say worse. Well, I think it's OK to label something worse.
Well, more. And so I'm I'm I am personally delighted.
The human battle just doesn't quit. Yeah, it won't end.
I want to give you a compliment. I think you often in life come to the right conclusions about things.
But I do think it takes you a long time. But I in this case, like two months gotta be uncomfortable and miserable for a while right I just think you do get there like I have I do know this as a pattern again um I was talking to Jess obviously well I did something sort of mean to him because he's my brother right so wow this is such a ding ding ding he has this amazing.
He runs this business with this other guy and it's a service business. He teaches he goes to restaurants and teaches people how to give good service service.
And it's incredible. And it's doing so well.
I'm so proud of him. That's great.
It's really awesome. But, you know, when he does these like classes for them and he's just like it's very like animated and loud.
And it's an improv class. Yes.
And he's very on for all of it. So he is struggling with his voice.
Oh, that's great. And and he's been complaining about it a lot.
And so I said, well, what are we going to do? We should like, you know, Greathers.. I also offered that here.
Throat coat. Maybe a medicine, but he's just been complaining a lot about it.
Understandably. This is where my impatience comes in.
Sure. We were going to hang out.
So we FaceTimed. And the first thing he said was like, oh, my voice.
And I said, well, I can't hear that again.

And I said, well, I can't hear that again. And I'm lucky.
I'm lucky, but I also, this is the conversation I want to get to. I know he can take that.
And he did. He just like sat there for a second and, and he said, okay, I'm fixed.
And I said, I'm not saying that saying that but also like we do need to figure it out yeah right or yeah we can't complain anymore it's time to get into solution yes exactly this is one thing i love about him he like brought that up as a positive thing and he was and he said i feel i feel really lucky that you feel you can be that way with me or say thing that is true. Yeah.
And he said, do you do that with everyone? Yeah. 75% is the same, but there's like a 25% that's adapting to who I'm around.
Yeah. So I'm not saying that phrase to everyone.
For sure. And, but I would still.
I would argue it's pretty gendered too. Like I think your dad gets it, your brother gets it, I gets it, Jess gets it, and yeah, your mom gets it.
So that's four to one. Family, I guess I would say, although I would never say that to kristin i feel that right right i've made this point before i am able to speak to young men in a way i just wouldn't i wouldn't speak to you know previously i think i've told the story it's like my friend who i adore jay who's like would wash my razors and stuff yeah and he would list all.
And I just went out to him and said, listen, this is how you'll win in life. Just make shit disappear.
Don't try to get any approval for it. Just make problems go away and you will fucking own a company, right? Like, I'll just, but I wouldn't, I can just be that way to dudes.
I don't know. Well, because we were talking about another friend who I won't name.
He was asking, would you say this to her? It was a girl. Yeah.
And I said, no, definitely not. That person is very sensitive.
Like, I know them. But I would say something.
I would say, like, well, what can we do? Like, what can we do? How can I help? Something like that. So I'm still, the point is the same.
Yes. You just have different bedside manner.
But do you think you do that? Do you, do you think you're 75% one thing and then you adapt or do you think you're like a hundred always? I was just talking to this. It's adjacent to this, which is no, I think I'm,'m, I think I'm kind of overly soft when I, I will always say my thing.
It's not like I'm, I'm a people pleaser, but I have been in a position many times where I have to give notes to people who work for me. So I have gotten very good, I think, at laying out notes in a, in a positive way to the degree that one of the first habits I had to break when I was messing around with AI is I would go generate an image of a van and the blah, blah, blah with the blah, blah, blah.
And it would come up. And then I would go, I swear to God, I was doing this like the first 20 times I use it.
I like really great start this works this works this works

now could you add blank and after about five I was like oh I don't need to fucking say any of

that to this thing let's go like make the wheels bigger yeah next thing make them taller no but I

was saying great job to AI yeah well stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by ZipRecruiter.
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That brings me to something that I'm afraid to talk about because I do not want to hurt anyone's feelings in my life. Okay.
But I also find the punchline of this is just too comical to not say in public. Okay.
So there is a bit of a gender divide right now in our pod about how nervous men are about the air quality and how nervous the women are. And I know there's a lot of chains going on about different air purifiers and whatnot.
And so Kristen's quite concerned about the air quality. Yeah, she is.
She's reading a lot about it. I thank her for that, for our family's safety.
And also, every day more air purifiers arrive. To the degree that when you enter our house, it's like going into the reefer unit at a Costco.
It's like... We've got six of them that uh filter out this particulate at 0.01 we've got a handful in the corners that are doing 0.003 they're all running it's like there's a hum in the house one of them was on auto and in the middle of the night i think it thought there was a biological weapon went off in the bedroom because all of a sudden it was like there was a jet engine going on.
I was like, what is that? And then I'm blind and I'm trying to fucking turn it off. So this has all been building.
And then there's some concern about water that has gotten in the water. All of this, this has been escalating and there's more and more air purifiers.
And we're trying to navigate it. She knows I'm not.
Yeah. She'll even say like, I'm afraid to bring this up.
Right. So it's, but we're getting through it and I think it's going pretty well.
And then I had overheard that, you know, we have these Ullers to cool you down in the bed. Yeah.
And I had heard Carly was going through and running peroxide through all of them, but I use distilled water. So I'm not actually nervous about it.
So when I saw that this was going on, I was like, you know, you just stay right out of it. So last night I go to go to bed and I turn on the Uler and it's making insane noises.
I don't know what I'm hearing all kinds of weird new noises. And then I'm realizing all of the little water capsule wasn't set incorrectly.
So I get that get that going and and now i realize oh it's out of water because maybe the peroxide thing so i'm filling it with water and and it just keeps making all these noises all these noises and i can't figure out what's going on and then at some point i can hear gushing water oh no and oh god i'm like oh my what's going on and i pick up my pillow and where it goes into the bladder that has been torn at some point in this cleaning okay and it has just pumped a gallon of water onto my bed oh no and uh and i was tired. Yeah.
And I saw that and poor Kristen saw that. And I'm sure she immediately was like, oh, no.
Of course. And I just walked into the bathroom and I leaned over the sink.
And I said to myself, she's trying her hardest to keep the family safe. That's right.
What I was really screaming in my head is like, just leave me, leave my things out of it. I know.
Just go crazy. But I just, I really have three.
I need my uller and my coffee in the morning. So I was being, I went to self-pity and then i said stop stop stop this is a human being who's trying her hardest yeah to keep everyone healthy yes she's she is and then i came back in and i was very pleasant and i said i'm gonna go sleep downstairs oh because my bed was soaking wet of course and i walked downstairs and i realized i can't sleep in the guest room because that's where whiskey's fucking cages and whiskey wakes up all night long barking and then i said no i'm gonna go outside outside yeah so i slept in the guest house oh oh Oh, oh, okay.
Yeah. Yes.
So I was sleeping in the guest house and I, oh, oh, oh, okay. Yeah.

Yes.

So I was sleeping in the guest house and I was thinking, maybe I could claim this as my house.

Okay.

Now, listen, listen.

Listen, listen, listen.

I want to say something to you.

Okay.

I understand all of this.

Both sides.

Yeah, of course.

I think, and this probably isn't the place to say it, but I do feel safer saying it here. I think you're feeling a real lack of control in your life right now.
Oh, well, yeah, yeah, yeah. From a lot of angles.
Uh-huh. And so these things are very heightened.
Yes. And anything is very heightened.
And especially in our personal things get very heightened when anyone feels like they have a lack of control. But especially you, because that is a that's a it's hard for you.
Yeah, you're right. And I felt like I lost control of my bed.
Exactly. Oh, my God.
I can't. I can't even count on sleeping in my bed now this is where it goes exactly that's the thing like again understandably that's like the bedrock of your trauma is not having control so you know flooded bed where people who don't have that background are just going to be like uh oh they they'll be annoyed.
Like, now I have to deal with this. This is so annoying.
You're probably not going to go to, well, now I don't even have a bed. That's mine.
I have no control over my bed. I have all this stuff and not, and no control over any of it.
And I live with dogs and I don't want to, I don't get to control whether I have allergies. And I, yeah, I started, you're right.

I start compiling.

But it's not out of nowhere.

It's because there's been a lot of stuff that is priming you for this.

It's just going to get triggered easily until we can let some of that go.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't think it's a horrible idea to contact Mark.

It can't hurt it's never hurt it's only help literally never hurt i'm just saying i see why it's all coupled the timing's perfectly i even said this out loud yesterday said it out loud i'm like there's some huge growth around the corner but i can't feel it because it's also it's all coinciding maybe i already said this with me writing about something i was never going to

write about i don't think i knew that i'm at the point in the memoir where i'm having to write

about the thing i was never going to write about oh my gosh like i don't mind saying i was molested

i had no intention to ever detail to anybody ever on this planet what happened details

Thank you. never going to write about oh my gosh like i don't mind saying i was molested i had no intention to ever detail to anybody ever on this planet what happened details and so i've been for maybe eight days oh my going through that every morning you know wow yeah that's so i think i think that's in the stew of course i think being made fun of and all these award shows is in the stew i think the fires are in the stew.
Of course. I think being made fun of in all these award shows is in the stew.

I think there's, I think the fires are in the stew.

I think the fans and the air purifiers.

Yeah, I think you're right. I think there's a lot.

Like, I'm spending time revisiting that apex of loss of will.

The impetus of that, really.

Yeah.

And then all these other things are coinciding in a very sim-likeibly coincidental yeah january way yeah and so yeah i'm hanging on at times by a threat but i'm very proud to say i haven't had any kind of blow-ups that's great i haven't had any fantasies about escaping maybe going to nashville to get my bus oh yeah that was gonna be like two days of you know where i'm just driving a vehicle i can control that seemed very appealing but i i flagged it as you're just trying to escape like you're trying to not walk through all this you're trying to take a little break there's the logical stuff and then there's what's really going on and i think i did go like i yeah you, you're just, you want to escape right now. Well, that's good.
I mean, it's good that you recognized it. Yeah.
It'll all pass. It'll all pass.
Yeah. But yeah, I didn't know you were doing that.
And that obviously is going to be a factor. I don't know.
That's how I start my day. I don't know.
Of the orders. Yeah.
Maybe you should do it at night. But then sleep is bad.
But I've been waking up. I've been having like two-hour chunks where I'm up at night too.
Yeah, I mean, growing pains, I guess. But also, it is kind of funny that you just brought up the fires because, you know, during COVID, of covid you've said it that you know your goal is to reduce panic yeah with all of us who are panicked or you know like heightened heightened yeah and and you're trying to bring that down you in some ways in doing that you're like it's not you don't you're not saying it's not that big of a, but like, that's like the energy, right? Yeah.
Uh-huh. And then, you know, a year and a half goes by and you said, and you have the recognition like, oh, that did affect me.
Yeah. Uh-huh.
Even though I was like, it's not that big of a deal. I'm not, it did.
And so when the fires were happening. And to me, it was like a little tangential.
Like, it's not that big of a deal. I'm not.
It did. And so when the fires were happening, and to me, it was like a little tangential.
Like, it was a similar thing. Oh, yeah, yeah.
It felt identical. Yeah, exactly.
The masks and the evacuees. Oh, yeah.
And the fear versus the panic versus that it's not that big of a deal. I thought, like, I mean, in some time, there's going to be a realization that that had an impact.
I totally agree with you, but I don't know if I think it was COVID that scared me. Yeah.
But I do think living with people that had heightened emotions that were scaring me. Yeah.
Did have a pretty big impact on me. Well, no, but even just like the whole experience of it, the isolation, the time together that was so intense, the unknown, how long is it going to be? Like all these things that we just all lived with and dealt with very differently.
And I do think some people immediately know the feeling right it's like they have the feeling minute one yeah and i and that's true you're in a zone i didn't cry over my dad till like four months later yeah it takes a minute i didn't cry over the uso tour till i was telling my mom about it when I was out of the situation. Yeah.
Yeah.

So maybe it's just now it's like catching up a little bit.

I heard that dude shared in the meeting on Monday that he has this weird come down.

He's like, oh, I don't know what the fuck to do now.

I knew how to get the hoses out and I knew how to do this and I knew how to do that.

Now I don't really know.

Yeah.

This, you know, the air quality.

I can't get a hose out. I don't know.
Right. don't right right what can i do right other than buy a couple dozen i think you have some you could lend oh speaking of other something else uncontrollable well diarrhea what diarrhea no i don't want to talk about that um my friend's house was robbed.
Yeah, tell me about that. I'm quite curious what happened.
Were they home? Completely unrelated. No, not home.
Thank goodness. But also on purpose, I'm sure.
I think these people probably were staking out the joint. Yeah, yeah.
Casing the joint. Exactly.
And so they knew they weren't there.'s preferred of course yes but unrelated to the fires like they were out of town for just a night and um what's really such a weird sad bummer is she had just put all her irreplaceable items into a safe. A fire safe.
Because of the fires, obviously. Yeah.
And they assumed there was valuables in there. They took the whole safe.
That's what's tricky about a safe. I know.
You know what the move is probably? To just leave it unlocked. Yeah.
If you're're just gonna put memorabilia in there like

leave it unlocked so they can see so you could still grab it easily i guess and if there's a fire you hit lock but while it sits there you leave it that's unlocked because it doesn't need to be locked to be fire retardant yeah it can have the door shut without you having locked it that's a good idea maybe I know

because I was going to say

I don't really understand modern robberies because there's nothing to fence there's unless the people have some crazy jewelry collection or a bunch of watches but like all the stuff people stole in the 80s and 90s is like valueless in the secondhand. You can't sell a 55 inch TV for more than $100.
Like I'm not sure what they think they're going to get. I think the jewelry is the big thing.
And yeah, watches. I mean, that's what they stole.
And she even said, you know, you can have that stuff. Yeah.
You can like she there was one valuable piece of jewelry in there that was her wedding bracelet that was like gifted from a family member, you know.

Yeah.

But the rest of it is all like definitely not things the robbers want.

And and I said, maybe you could put a note on the door saying, if you stole my stuff, can you just bring back these items, please? That's sad. Yeah.
But she's doing okay. And is the husband now wanting to like arm himself and get a heat? He's not, but of course.
Are they rolling with it or are they? I mean, they're doing okay. But they, I mean, this is always what happens in any of these circumstances where there's violation you feel guilty right like you did something wrong you did this and that caused this or you didn't do this and now this happened and it's the same it's like yeah are we're wired that way i assume because you want to learn from your mistakes.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I know, but it's so unfair.

Yeah.

You should be able to recognize it without the shame or the guilt.

Yeah, yeah.

I think they might.

They're both struggling a little bit with that.

We're reading the new Unstoppable books by Yuval Harari at night to the kids.

Uh-huh.

By Wee Christens reading it to them.

And I listen and sometimes fall asleep.

But he was describing a scene where the Sapiens might have seen a group of Neanderthals

Let's see. to them and i listen and sometimes fall asleep but he was describing a scene where the sapiens might have seen a group of neanderthals approach and because you know neanderthals neanderthals were there and then they all they went extinct or some got absorbed in dar genes right but in general they were killed out they were out competed by sapiens and they were he was setting they're describing this scene but also in the book there's the dovio i can't say the word but these dovio and people that were on an island so they got smaller oh really tiny like two feet nine okay this is it you strike for a future fact yes yes yes yes and i'm just there listening.
And I was thinking to myself how predictable we are. If you're a group of 100 sapiens and you see these Neanderthals, you see 12 of them and they're bigger than you.
You're scared. Yeah.
And so you try to neutralize this thing. If the Denovians had rolled up.
Yeah. They would have probably been kind to him yeah and he even talks about often they kill off the neanderthal parents but then they would care for the kids or babies of the neanderthals because and i'm like i was like girls this is this is the like this is the crux of violence is is fear of yes you know yeah if you see little people walk up on the scene, you're like, oh, get your get your goo.
Want some food? Come in here. Unless they are called demons or something like they make them a different type of threat.
They could be mis... Yeah.
Outcast. Magicians.
Yeah. Evil magic powers.
Yeah, exactly. So, fact,ames um the tallest and smallest women women yes yes oh yes yes yes i saw them again they came up organically in my feed hanging out again same stuff we already saw but it was it was back i think it's gaining popularity i hope yeah the world's tallest woman is Romesa Gelgi.

Beautiful. Yeah.
The world's tallest woman is Ramesa Gelgi. Beautiful.
Yeah. I don't know how to say it.
And the world's shortest woman is Yodi Omji. Which, again, it really sounds like a short person's name.
I know. I know.
Well, it just sounds cute. Yodi.
And like Yoda. Right.
And Yoda's very, very small. Yeah.
And to be fair, it's J-Y-O-T-I. So I don't actually know.
Could be Jodi. Yeah.
Or G-O-T or something. Yeah.
They met in London in November for afternoon tea. And Rumesa is seven feet, point seven inches.
and Yodi is 2 feet 0.7 inches. I think it's just a miracle that they're exactly 5 feet apart.
I know. That they're both 0.7.
It's like how me and you have the exact same IQ. Yes.
Suspicious. Makes no sense.
Suspicious. And this was from the Guinness through this.
Guinness World Records, obviously. Yeah.
They're the only ones that could ethically host this kind of thing. Yeah.
If it was Barling and Brothers, Barling and Bailey. Barnum and Bailey.
Barnum and Bailey. They are not allowed.
You go, come on, guys. Yeah.
Knock this off. That shit's.
True. We got to retire that.
That's true. But Guinness, you're like, get them together like get them together yeah couple world record holders I know I wonder what the volume difference was in tea they drank that interests me they're so awesome and we think they look like us they do they look quite a bit like Ramesa looks like you and Yodi looks like mehuh.
And we desperately, although I don't know if this puts us in the Barnum and Bailey category. Oh, no, no.
We desperately want them to come to the garage and have tea. Yeah.
So that we can all stand in a perfect linear line going up. That's right.
From Yodi to Monica to Daxi to Ramesa. Yeah.
That would be a stunning photograph. I agree.
You also wanted to do boxes where we all reach the same height. That's right.
Where we're all exactly 7.7 inches tall. But we said that's a little scary for Yodi.
It's quite scary for Yodi. But what I like about that proposition is that her box will be exactly your height yeah that's really cool so you're you're three feet taller than her and i'm only probably almost exactly taller ramace is one foot taller than me right so to be honest we do have to invite someone who is four feet tall just to make it fucking perfect.
You need Calvin. Calvin.
Oh, that actually works color wise. It's a gradient.
Calvin's a beautiful transition. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But he's on the wrong side. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Because Ramisi is whiter than me, which is hard to do. Right.
She's whiter than you. Yodi looks similar to my coloring.
She looks just similar to you, period. She really does.
You know what we were discussing? Last fact check, if you were a great artist, I'd love to see what you see in the mirror. Yeah.
And if I was an incredible artist and I drew a picture of you, you might find that it looks a lot like Yodi. Yeah.
God, this reminds me of the other day I was with Anna and we were, this is no offense to anyone, but we were at a crosswalk and she said, is that you? And I looked over and there was a woman there. She was wearing a mask, so I couldn't see her full face.
But I think she was wearing a mask. Maybe I added that in my head.
Oh, wow. This doesn't sound like the clearest memory.
Yeah. Well, it was traumatic because I saw it.
I was like, oh, and then she got closer. And I was like, I don't.
Yeah, but that's a common occurrence. I know.
But that's upsetting. It's upsetting.
You didn't like the comp. I didn't.
Right. But also in Anna's defense, I have the experience quite often where you see someone from a distance, and as they get closer, you start realizing, oh, this is a different person than I saw.
Okay. But she didn't say, oh, actually not.
But maybe she got in her head. She got in her head.
She went like, oh, shit, that was a bad comp now that she's closer. But now what do I say? She could have said, oh, actually, never mind.
She's a bad comp. Bad comp.
That's all you have to say. Yeah, bad comp.
Also, maybe it's right. It's probably a good comp.
That's the, this is where things get tricky. I doubt it.
I'm a good comp for Yodi. Okay.
Now, does yawning help ear clearing? Yes, it does. It opens the eustachian tubes, which allows air to flow into the middle ear and equalize pressure, popping your ears.
So that would have worked if he had just tried it. Yeah, he was being insolent.
He was. Can a chihuahua and a mastiff have an offspring? Great Dane is what I found.
People are most curious. Yeah, chihuahua and Great Dane.
It says, highly unlikely to produce viable offspring because of their extreme size difference, making natural mating nearly impossible, imposing significant health risks for both the mother and potential puppies. Therefore, responsible breeders would never attempt such a cross.
But it is technically possible. Yes, and we would want it to be a male Chihuahua impregnating a female Great Dane because a Great Dane offspring inside of a Chihuahua uterus could be lethal.
Also, the boy, it would be almost impossible for the great name male to enter the chihuahua to stoop down low enough to get the penis. Yeah, it would have to.
But a little chihuahua, if a great name was taking a nap on its side, also it consented. Let's just say it consented.
Sure, sure, sure. I'm drowsy, but whatever you want to do while I'm out.
And then it was laying perfectly on the side. It could definitely get up there.
It's laying on the ground. And it's the.
Oh, the chihuahua is the penis, right? Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. So the great name female or gal.
Yeah. Is laying on her side.
Or back. No, her side.
Oh. And then the little chihuahua just comes up and hump, hump, hump.
He's at the right height if she's laying on her side. Oh, I see.
I see what you're saying. And then she could probably have 13, 14 pups in the litter and not even notice.
Yes. These little tiny pup.
She just thinks they're little mosquito bites. Like a heavy, heavy flow.
Oh, wow. Yeah.
So if it's got to be done, that's what we recommend. Yes.
Update. I am leaning more and more, but don't hold me to this, but I'm leaning more and more towards eventually potentially getting a dog.
Wow. I know.
Wow. When I move into my house.
Yeah. I think that's a great idea.
I think I will feel safer. Yep.
Get a big boy. Yeah.
A big boy. Erica and Charlie have been fostering this German shepherd.
Yep. And a very, very smart dog.
Even a puppy is very smart. They're great dogs.
I'm terribly allergic to their hair. Oh, you are?

Yeah.

My mom's dog, Breezy, who I loved.

Right.

And I love pee-pee.

Yeah, pee-pee.

But boy, they shed like a mother.

And when I'd be at my mom's house, I couldn't breathe.

Well, I don't want shedding.

Get a doodle.

Get some kind of a doodle.

But are they going to protect?

Well, that's a good question.

I need one that is nice. And a killer.
reformed bad boy i think german shepherds are that yeah they are but i don't my house is gonna be so pretty i cannot have it covered in hair oh and they fucking shed so but you got to get something that doesn't shed back to the drawing board yeah okay um you said the fewest among the armchair anonymous callers are from oklahoma i'm not gonna second that can't substantiate that claim no uh the house with um that james had his party his 50th birthday party this is the episode yes this is the episode that was hilarious because we were talking about surprise parties and 50th birthday party. This is the episode.
Yes, this is the episode. That was hilarious because

we were talking about surprise parties and 50th birthday parties and yours was in the works.

Yes, mine was a couple days out. Yeah.
James Goldstein, the Sheetz Goldstein residence

is the home that he had the party that's a big iconic home in LA. Gorgeous place.
Yeah. Oh,

the phobia of getting sued is Lytica phobia. That makes a ton of sense.
Mm-hmm. Lytica phobia.
Nick Nolte is not from Oklahoma. He's from Omaha.
Okay. Easy mistake.
And Brad Pitt was born in Shawnee, Oklahoma. Congratulations, Shawnee.
I know. Yeah.
That's it. Would you rather be known as the town that produced the tallest woman in the world, the shortest woman in the world, or Brad Pitt? Tallest.
Same. Yeah.
I don't know why. It's the rarest.
Yeah. And I just imagine you could put a statue in town for that person.
Oh, and it would draw people. If you did the shortest person, you'd miss it.
If you wanted to break stereotypes,

the move would be

to put a statue of the tallest woman

next to the statue

of the tiniest man.

Yeah.

That was your goal.

Yeah, I like that.

And Calvin in the middle.

Calvin right in the middle.

All right.

All right.

Love you.

Love you.

Love you.

Love you.

Love you.

Love you.

Love you.

Love you.

Love you.

Love you.

Love you.

Love you.

Love you.

Love you.

Love you.

Love you.

Love you.

Love you.

Love you. Love you.
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