Buffy, Bad Bills, and Burning Questions with Stacey Abrams

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Welcome to Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams from Crooked Media.

I'm your host, Stacey Abrams.

Today's episode is a special one.

As many of you know, at the end of every show, I ask listeners to send in their burning questions, big or small, serious or silly.

Over the past year, we've received so many thoughtful, curious, and thought-provoking messages.

First of all, thank you.

Not just for listening, but for engaging with the show so deeply that it sparks more questions and it inspires you to reach out.

We haven't always been able to fit every incredible question into our regular episodes, so today we're doing something a little different, a mailbag episode.

Our producers have compiled a ton of listener questions from our email, phone line, and even YouTube comments with topics ranging from politics to pop culture.

All for me to answer for you.

And if you stick around until the end, you'll hear a few of my talented, multifaceted, and famous friends ask me their burning questions as well.

To help with today's episode, our associate producer, Farah Safari, will be joining me.

Farah, welcome back to Assembly Required.

I understand you're bringing me some questions from our listeners.

Yes, Stacey, it is great to be back.

Our email has been filling up.

So I'm so excited that we're dedicating an entire episode to what the people want to hear, which is your opinions on the Love Island season finale.

They have the wrong podcast host for that conversation.

That is not quite my jam.

Any other pop culture, we can probably make it work, but I've not visited Love Island.

Okay, fine.

It was worth a shot.

But so like you were saying, there will be some pop culture questions in here, but we're going to start off with what the people actually came here for, which is the easy stuff.

Hit me.

Okay, great.

So our first listener question, Because It Matters, asks, can a senator or representative representative be sued for violating their oath of office to adhere to the Constitution, aka doing their job?

For example, allowing the illegal dismantling of critical infrastructure, allowing the illegal dismantling of government agencies, ignoring government oversight and spending, allowing unqualified individuals to remain in government to the detriment of national security.

This is a disappointing answer, but the reality is probably not.

And here's why.

Many of you know I started my career in

government.

I was an intern, but my first official job in government post-college was as deputy city attorney for the city of Atlanta.

And that is when I became an expert in what is known as sovereign immunity.

Sovereign immunity is the ability of lawmakers to say they don't have to abide by the laws they don't want to abide by.

And I'm being a bit glib with it, and I don't intend to diminish it, but it does have unfortunate consequences, namely that legislators can make themselves immune to suit unless they do something that is clearly violation of existing law, not their oaths of office.

The reason that's important is the interpretation of an oath of office can differ from person to person.

And a court would be hard pressed to say that this is true and that is not true.

And so what most local governments, state governments, federal governments do is make themselves immune to suit.

That's why voting is so important.

And I know it becomes this very, very numbing retort, but the the reason voting matters so much is that it's one of the few tools that citizens have to holding elected officials accountable.

We should be able to do something more, but it is a rare occasion where that happens.

Now, there are local governments, there are state governments where recall elections are indeed a tool.

And if you see something, say something.

We have watched the use of recalls being proliferated by conservatives to remove those who were trying to expand access to justice, recalling progressive DAs that were doing their jobs, recalling those who they believed were helping the wrong people.

And so we should keep in mind that recall elections work both ways.

It tends to be though in communities where we are the most concerned, they've already removed the authority for recall election.

But investigate, find out if you have that authority in that capacity in your communities.

That's the most direct way to hold local elected officials responsible short of being able to take them to court.

Great.

Our next question comes from Sean Trader, and he has something that I'm also very interested in.

So he said, just listened to your episode on cryptocurrency with Zeke Fox and Annie Lowry.

I'm interested to know how much you knew about crypto before preparing for this podcast.

So I love research.

I love learning things.

My mom was a college librarian when I was growing up.

And so when she said, look it up, we really had no choice.

There was literally a library for us to go to.

And as you all know, I believe, you know, be curious, solve problems, do good.

And be curious for me is a call to action.

My second legal thriller in my Avery Keene series actually involved cryptocurrency.

So I spent a lot of time doing a deep dive into crypto.

I listened to a number of podcasts, did a lot of research.

And this was about three years ago.

But as with almost every technology, things have moved fast, so fast.

But yes, I knew just enough about cryptocurrency to be dangerous.

What I like to say is I try to learn enough that people who don't know anything think I'm smart.

And those who do know something think I'm respectful.

I'm going to quote that and put it on my kitchen

in my kitchen just to read Everyday Making Breakfast.

That's incredible.

Okay, our next question is from Kira Davis.

She said, something came across my TikTok feed twice yesterday about the Save Act and its intention to take away married women's rights to vote.

Is that true?

Yes.

So it's being couched as an identity issue.

And let's be clear.

I've been banging this drum for years.

No one opposes voter ID.

No one thinks that you should be able to just wander into a voting booth and pretend to be someone you're not.

The issue is not should you have ID.

It is how are you identifying yourself.

And we know that in this country, because we do not have a uniform system of identification, that it is then,

I would say, implausible to try to hold people to a singular standard.

Now, we're seeing that happen through Real ID, which is again a patchwork.

But the underlying issue is how do we prove who we are?

Our names are one of the ways we do so.

And so with the SAVE Act, one of the intentions is to compel women to use the same name for everything.

And if your name is not the name that was on your birth certificate, meaning you adopted your spouse's name, this could make it difficult for you to be able to cast your ballot.

Now, there are three strains of theory about this.

So one strain is that there is just an attempt to diminish the

viability of women voting.

And I think that's a very accurate strain because this has a very singular effect on women.

And having been told about the singular effect, there has been absolutely no intention to fix it.

There's the Christian nationalist view, which is the goal is to stop women from exercising their rights to vote.

And we've seen versions of this play out on TikTok and X.

And, you know, you look up a social media post, you'll see it.

The third, though, is one that is both benign, but deeply, deeply disturbing.

And that is that we have people making rules who simply don't understand the rules they're making.

And for me, that's the most dangerous one because it's not those with ill intent.

We can identify those.

It's those whose benign neglect of reality puts the rest of us at harm.

We know that for women to have to change your last name to prove that the Social Security Administration got the same information as the DMV, got the same information as your county officials, that's expensive.

It takes time.

It takes money.

It pretends that you have the capacity to navigate all of these systems.

It assumes you have a computer because a lot of these resources will not talk to you anymore.

You have to be online to do it.

And so it puts at a disadvantage anyone who is rural, anyone who is poor, anyone who is homeless.

There are all of these layers of complexity that begin with we should have the names match.

And so whenever you hear these administrative rules that sound benign or sound logical, the question isn't what, it's how.

And when we think about voter suppression, the how is what matters the most.

I've been talking about the 10 steps to autocracy, and the very last step is diminishing voting, basically eliminating people participating.

The best type of autocracies don't have to worry about people saying anything.

And we've seen this happen.

And one of the ways to do it is not to stand and say, we won't let you vote.

It's to change the rules so that it is so hard for you to cast your ballot that it becomes the natural result that you don't cast the ballot at all.

I guess my follow-up to that is like, would it be fear-mongering or precautionary to be like, maybe for a certain point in time, women don't take the last names of their spouses?

I would say it this way.

The people who are intentionally harmful are going to catch on.

It's the challenge with the idea of changing.

You guys have heard me talk about DEI and the argument that we should stop stop saying DEI because they don't like it and if we change it then they'll leave us alone no they they're not mad about the letters they're mad about the values the same thing is true those who are angered by women participating in the electorate are deeply concerned because the margins of victory in elections are often decided very narrowly and you can usually find women who are responsible and so they're not concerned about your last name they're concerned about that extra X chromosome you have and the fact that you're using it to make decisions that benefit you your community, your family, and their society.

Yeah.

Well, that's terrifying.

Thank you.

Okay, but I don't want to terrify you.

And I think I appreciate you saying that.

So here's the thing.

I raise these issues.

We talk about these issues so that we can do something about it.

There are a lot of women who've gotten elected to office.

There are a lot of men.

In fact, every single one of them has come from a woman.

So part of our job is to have this knowledge and use it to incentivize better behavior, but also to let them them know we see what they're doing.

And part of our opportunity in the SAVE Act, and they've been trying to push it and it's been stalled out in part because there are so many women who understand who happen to be in Congress and may not be able to vote for themselves if this bill passes.

We've got to keep the pressure on.

So the goal of our conversations is never fear.

It's information.

We know what they want us to be afraid of, but we're going to be so well resourced and so well informed that they can't get anything past us.

And then we're going to share so much that we build an army of people who are with us and fighting for our rights.

So don't be afraid.

Just get busy.

Beautiful.

Don't be afraid.

Stay informed.

Listen to this podcast.

Listen to multiple podcasts.

Read a book.

That's what I've been trying to do.

Exactly.

Okay.

Next question is from Diana Dunkless.

And they ask, what happens to the belongings of immigrants after they've been deported?

It really depends on where they are and how they were here.

So we know that there are so many people.

Most recently, an 82-year-old man who was taken from an immigration facility where he was going to get a replacement green card, 82 years old from, I think, El Salvador, deported to Guatemala.

He didn't have his belongings with him because they were with his wife in his home and he was simply coming to replace this card.

He had done nothing wrong, but he was snatched up and

he was kidnapped and deported without due process.

And so it's not really deportation.

He was removed.

We have others.

We have the father who was going to pick up his kid from daycare who was taken.

And we have to presume that his family has his resources.

But we know for so many people,

wherever they were, the last moment they were there, their belongings now are in the possession of either those who were caring for them or those who didn't realize they were in need.

And there are no rules.

That property is now fair game.

And unfortunately, in our society, we're not asking those questions.

Just like we're not asking, I think, often enough why we have decided that kidnapping and extradition and cruelty is permissible.

For a nation that has been willing to protect and defend property rights, I think that might be an interesting way for us to start having this conversation because their property belongs to them and that due process for property should be part of the conversation.

Unfortunately, when we are having a difficult time arguing for humanity,

I am

ambivalent about whether property rights are going to be considered better or worse than

the very humanity of the people we're concerned about.

Yeah.

And that's difficult, right?

Because we're kind of leaving the onus on the individuals' families, right?

If they're like picked up off the streets and deported, whether that's to one of Trump's many gulags or if that's to like their country of origin, like it's up to their family to send their stuff back, let's say if they have the resources.

Is there anything that we could do, like any organizations or any charities that could help get their property back?

Because we're currently in timeplace where our government is not doing that.

I think we should absolutely be in conversation with with local churches that are near those communities.

We know that there are a number of immigration organizations.

So, when you hear about something, especially someone in your community, make sure you're looking locally for answers, locally for solutions.

We know organizations like CASA and the Immigration Law Center are doing the best they can, but they can't be everywhere and they don't know everything.

But it's these kinds of questions that are so important, much like the questions of what happens to the citizen children of those

who are taken.

We need to be thinking about their belongings, but also their families and what happens when someone is left behind.

Yeah.

Thank you, Stacey.

This next one is from Greg W.

He asks, how could Democrats react to the MAGA fury over Epstein?

Should they just walk away or should they fan the fury?

So there is a quote that is attributed to Napoleon Bonaparte that says, basically, when your enemy's making a mistake, don't get in the way.

That's a terrible paraphrase.

Another version of it is when

elephants are stampeding,

don't get in their way.

Don't get on the grass.

I think in this case, we don't need to get in the grass, but we can keep yelling at the elephants to keep running.

I think that's our best posture.

This is not about the content.

This is about the character.

It's the character of an administration that promised transparency and that whipped up a conspiracy theory that it's now being consumed by.

The danger we have is that if we make the story about Democrats, then we create a space for those who are angry and who are outraged to train their fire and their ire on Democrats.

And we don't want that.

But what we can do is continue to keep it front and center.

The narrative is attention economy, that we live in an attention economy now.

And that means that as long as people are talking about it, it matters.

We should keep talking about it, but we can't be louder than the people who are currently outraged,

whose voices should really carry the day.

And here's why.

This is not going to destroy MAGA.

Anyone who thinks that this is going to be what brings down MAGA or brings down Trump, I think is misreading the moment.

But what it is doing is fracturing what is currently a very impenetrable allegiance that has been bolstered by lies and by bad action.

And the more people start to question,

the more they will expand that questioning.

It is not going to be the

tipping point that destroys MAGA.

But it does start to fracture the unassailable and it starts to compel more questions.

The challenge with conspiracy theories is conspiracy theorists don't suddenly not be conspiracy theorists.

They just spin out a new conspiracy theory.

And it is best for all involved for that attention to be focused on the character of the people making decisions.

Because the more they are fighting amongst themselves, the...

grand hope is the less they are creating and fomenting the decimation of our society of our democracy that we know is their primary intent.

Okay, I love that because it's less of like what they're going to, I mean, it is partially what they're going to do to themselves, but it's also like we're kind of distracting them for continuing to disrupt our society.

I mean, they're good multitaskers.

So I don't want to overstate it,

but it is a useful thing for us to understand that this is not about

one person.

It is about a theory of the case.

And when you've built an entire movement around this kind of invective and this type of

salacious information,

you cannot then hope that people don't notice.

And we see him trying every distraction in the world to hope that someone pays attention to something else.

But you are seeing those who bolster him start to question him.

I've always said Trump is not the issue.

Trump is a puppet.

He is a very, very effective one.

I mean, it's kind of like Pinocchio coming to to life, but he's still a puppet.

He's still the creation of a number of forces.

What I don't want us to get distracted by is that because the puppet is currently in trouble, that we forget that the puppeteers are who we really have to be focused on.

And what this does reveal to us are who are the puppeteers.

Not that we didn't know, but we can see even more in sharp relief who they are, what they're doing.

And it makes it a lot harder for them to hold the center of their movement when they've broken trust and broken faith.

You have such good quotes this episode.

Like everything you're saying, I want to put on a refrigerator.

I don't know why refrigerator magnets where my go-to is right now, but I just kind of want to put on a refrigerator.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Of course.

Our next question is from Austin Fisher.

How do you build political power and voter access in other red or blue states?

We have to begin with small.

We want to win everything.

And I completely understand that.

I am a black woman from the deep south.

That is a mission statement, but you can't get there overnight.

And you've heard me say it before.

Everything everywhere all at once is a great title for a movie.

It is a terrible mission statement, but we've all got to do something somewhere soon.

And here's where that starts.

People tend to start with, let me tell you why to vote for this person or let me tell you why to vote on this issue.

I think that's the wrong beginning.

Our first question is, how can I help?

Which asks someone, what's wrong?

What are you concerned about?

What do you need?

When you ask, how can I help?

You're establishing relationship first

before you're asking for engagement.

Engagement follows.

It does not lead.

Someone has to belong first before they believe that they can do.

something about it.

And I'm borrowing from a dear friend of mine, Rashad Robinson, who loves to say, you know, we've got to do belong and then believe.

That's what the right does.

The left goes, believe and then you can belong.

And that's the wrong way to go about it.

If you have to believe in voting in order for me to help you, you're not going to vote.

But you have to belong to a community.

You have to belong to

a sense of purpose and a sense that there's something possible before you can believe that you can do something about it.

And so I always start with, how can I help?

And that question says, I see that there is a pain in your life.

I see that there's a challenge that you face.

And if I ask you that question and I listen to your answer, then my next step is to say, okay, let's figure out who can help you.

The figuring out who can help you often reveals who isn't doing their job.

That's how you get to voting because voting then is, okay, let's get your immediate problem solved.

Let me help you figure that out.

And then from there, let's talk about how we make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else, including you again.

And so if you're thinking about this at the hyper-local level, that's a lot of folks that you can get.

And it feels very piecemeal and very incremental, but that's what voting is.

Voting is one vote at a time.

And if you've got folks who are willing to help you, if you're working with organizations that do this work, that's how you build mass very quickly.

That's why I keep coming back to local efforts as the point of entry.

You're not going to change the president until you change the school board.

You're not going to change the mayor until you've changed your city council member.

And so part of our responsibility is to start by asking, how can I help?

Second is let me educate you, not in a hectoring, lecturing way that makes you think that I think I'm smarter than you, but in a, let's learn together about why this didn't work and what we need to do.

And then third, let's do something about it.

That's engagement.

And then on the other side of engagement, let's continue accountability because the best way to keep people engaged is to show that there's someone accountable for not doing the work.

When all you're doing is registering voters and turning them out, but you're not coming back to say, did it work?

Are you better?

What else do you need?

Then what we have are people who vote.

We do not have voters.

I look for voters.

I build voters.

I don't just, I want you to show up in every election that you want to show up in, but we have succeeded when people believe that their act of casting a ballot can create real change.

And if you want to see this work, look at senior citizens in Florida.

Those are voters.

They know.

that if they want to terrify anyone, threaten to vote against you or not vote, because this is a population that is a direct connection between taking action and getting results.

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So something that a lot of listeners might not know about you is that you are a huge TV and movie buff, as well as a very avid reader and an author in your own right.

You consume so much good media and have some really, really good takes.

No pressure.

So as a segue into our next section, I created this this or that style game for you to get your your takes out into the world and to hopefully not offend too many fandoms.

Okay.

Before we do this, I'm going to tell everyone.

So usually I get a list of questions ahead of time.

I refuse to read my questions.

So all of these questions I'm getting today, including what Farah is about to do to me in public, I have not seen before.

And so please forgive me for any offense that I bring

because I really am just responding off the cuff.

Now, as you destroy my future, go ahead.

Okay, beautiful.

Let's hope we don't get you canceled.

Okay.

Okay, so this is Rapid Fire.

Just go with the first thing that pops in your head.

And also, if you are not familiar with any of these things, you can skip.

You can pass.

Okay.

Are you ready?

I'm ready.

Okay.

Star Wars or Star Trek?

Star Trek.

Marvel or DC?

Marvel.

Fantastic Four or Superman?

Superman.

Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter?

Lord of the Rings.

Grey's Anatomy or Ridgerton?

Ridgerton.

Friends or Seinfeld?

Friends.

Girls or insecure?

Insecure.

Game of Thrones or the Sopranos?

Game of Thrones.

Pride and Prejudice or Jane Eyre.

Pride and Prejudice.

Love Actually or Romeo plus Juliet?

Love actually.

Although it's deeply problematic, but yes.

It ends with us or the hating game?

Neither.

Okay.

The notebook or a walk to remember?

Can't do them.

Neither.

Hamilton or wicked?

Hamilton.

Reluctantly but assuredly.

Okay.

Top chef or iron chef?

That's just not fair.

The answer is yes.

The answer is yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Love Island or Love is Blind.

I just really want a Love Island answer.

I don't do.

So one of the things, I only do reality shows that are competitions

for like food or houses or things like that.

Personal reality shows, I don't watch.

That's fair.

That's a dearth in my my viewing habits.

Okay, this last one is going to be really hard.

Okay.

Coded justice or rules of engagement?

Okay, see, this is a trick question that is designed to pit Selena Montgomery against Stacey Abrams.

Selena Montgomery will always hold up her very first novel, Rules of Engagement.

And since I am she, I love that book because it was my first publication.

Coded Justice was probably one of the most fun books I've ever gotten to write, even though I'm now afraid to, you know, use Siri on my phone.

But I loved being able to write Avery Keene, and she always makes me happy to get to visit her again.

Oh, well, that's beautiful.

We love that.

Thank you.

Okay.

Moving on to our next segment,

which is going to be our entertainment segment.

Okay.

Similar to like what I just mentioned, if there is something that you don't know or haven't really engaged with, feel free to pass that.

I have no trouble saying what I don't like.

Go for it.

Okay, beautiful.

So, Caroline Rustin asks, what do you think of Lena Dunham's comeback with her new show, Too Much?

I have not watched Lena Dunham.

I read a review of it yesterday in The Atlantic.

I'm not exactly certain it's going to be my cup of tea,

but I am always a fan of those who try to bring romance forward as a topic of conversation.

My one thing was that I loved how girls centered a lot around like female friendship because I feel like in this day and age, I don't have a lot of shows about centering female friendship or female empowerment with too much.

I understand it's her arc of her relationship, but I'm like, where are her friends?

Why does she just know this one man in the UK?

Where did she come from?

So are you recommending it to our audience?

I'm recommending it to our audience.

I don't think it's very similar to girls.

So if you wanted something to kind of scratch the girl's itch, I don't think this is the show for you.

But if you love a little romantic comedy, I think the actors are hilarious and it might make you believe in love again in a very unrealistic fashion.

There you go.

Which is the raise and detra for rom-coms anyway.

So go for it.

Perfect.

Melody R.

asks, do you have any recent book recommendations?

And what are your all-time favorite reads?

So I'll start with the last and get to the first.

All-time favorite.

My favorite book as a kid was The Phantom Toll Booth by Norton Juster.

And I've read it as an adult and still think it holds up.

I love Nora Roberts because I love romance.

My sort of top five when I'm telling people to read, it's Honest Illusion by Nora Roberts, The Intuitionist by Colson Whitehead, What's Bread in the Bone by Robertson Davies,

The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle by Hurukai Murakami, and

I will add to that

the

Broken Earth trilogy by N.K.

Jemison.

Those are my top books.

And most recently, I have been reading a lot of Lee Child

because he is the author of the Reacher series.

And

I love Jack Reacher.

I love that show.

I picked up one book.

My brother has loved them for years.

And so I started reading them.

And I think I'm on book 17.

And I really need to read something else.

But

he's been very prolific.

and I'm really far behind.

So I'm trying to get to the end of the Reacher series so I can read something else.

But I'm also reading about

The Age of Grievance by Frank Bruni, which is really, really good.

And a smart conversation about who we are as a society and how we got where we are.

Stacey, how many books are in the Reacher series if you're on 17?

I know.

I think it's like 25 or 70.

I don't quite know.

I've set a stopping point for myself.

I have the last three that I'm going to read and then I'm done for a while

because Lee Child is getting all of my money.

Right.

You're taking a little sabbatical.

Is this audio?

Are you like reading?

No, I read.

I'm reading.

That's incredible.

Yeah.

That's, I need to be better.

This conversation teaching me I need to be better.

Look, I have a mildly obsessive personality.

I'm, no, not obsessive.

I'm task-oriented.

I wanted to know the rest of the Reacher story and apparently it doesn't end.

It's kind of like, it's like reading Game of Thrones.

Only, yeah.

So no,

he's really, I've been reading the same book for three months.

So like,

what book are you reading?

Right now I'm reading this book called Home Bodies.

I forget the author's name, but I just got recommended by my friend.

And I just switched into that.

But before that, I was reading.

See, I don't even remember the name of it.

No, no, no.

So here's, I'm going to, I'm going to do something for everyone.

Reading should be fun.

It should be enjoyable.

It doesn't mean that you're going to always be happy, but reading should never be painful.

It should never be obligatory.

Once you've graduated from whatever program is compelling you to read, everything you do after that should be because you want to.

I have no trouble putting down a book I don't want to read.

I'm not one of those people who has to finish because I am task oriented.

I want to know what's happening with Reacher.

I'm not reading them because I started.

I can stop.

I do not believe in the sunk cost fallacy.

I will stop a book on like the next to last page if you do something something really, really dumb and I don't want to know how it ends.

Do not feel guilty about reading.

Reading should always be something that brings you joy, even if it doesn't bring you happiness.

Okay, I love that.

I did Google what book I was reading.

It's called The Happy Place by Emily Henry.

Okay, there you go.

And it's a beautiful book about female friendship because I guess that's like where my motif is going right now.

But as a great transition point, where did your love of reading come from?

My parents taught me to love reading and love storytelling.

And people don't always see those as the same thing.

Yeah, my mom was a librarian and she used to read to us all the time.

My dad was dyslexic and reading was hard, but he would tell us these amazing stories.

And then I have to give credit to my oldest sister, my older sister Andrea, who I think got tired of reading to me and taught me to read when I was really young.

And so that triumvirate got me into reading and I've never never stopped.

So our next questions from Saul are, what was the last truly great show that you watched?

I just finished watching Murderbot, which I really enjoyed because I loved the books.

But the last show that just sort of had me thinking, why isn't television like this anymore?

Hmm.

I don't know.

It's, it's,

I, I really do love television.

So I'm not evading evading the question, but I like such a range of TV that it's hard to say that there's this show that is so transformative.

It really is, what's the itch I need to scratch at the moment?

So before it was Murderbot, it was Silo.

And before it was Silo,

I was watching Reacher.

And in between,

I was watching this lovely French mystery series called Astrid.

So for me, it's just a question of what am I in the mood for and what does a good job of satiating my

need.

Okay, I love that.

It also gives like the better perspective because I know sometimes people talk about the TV like to consume as like trash TV or like whatever.

And I'm like, no, it's just whatever you want to, whatever makes you feel good in the moment.

Yeah.

I mean, television should not be a chore.

They're fantastic shows that edify and lift us up.

And that matters, but they're also fantastic shows that ground us in our humanity and remind us that this too shall pass.

And then there's Love Island, which I haven't seen, but my niece and my siblings love, and I wish them well.

I will never visit them, but I am glad they have the island to visit.

Oh my gosh.

I'm going to get you to watch Love One episode.

You will not.

That is my goal.

Good luck with that.

It may end our female friendship, but you find it.

You're right.

I need to hold on to that.

Okay.

Next question is from Erin Ryan.

What do you think of the popularity of Sarah Moss and her imitators?

Is the subgenre of romance novels good or bad for the genre as a whole?

So I'm proud of Sarah and what she's been able to do.

I will push back a little bit on the imitators.

Romanticy is not new.

It's just new to this generation of readers, and it's been called many things over many years.

When I was growing up, first reading romance, it was,

you could read Joanna Lindsay and get some, you know, medieval romance.

You could read,

trying to think who else I used to love, Elizabeth Lowell, who would do magical fantasy romance.

Each generation brings something new to it.

And I think it's incredibly important that we never lose sight of how foundational romance is to how we tell stories.

I.

I laud and was so proud to be a romance writer because it's the one genre where you know from the very beginning how it's going to end.

And your job is to keep the reader engaged anyway.

And that takes creativity, it takes characterization, it takes story arcs, it takes skill.

And I'm delighted that romance continues to endure and continues to remind us of who we are and why we deserve to be happy.

That's beautiful.

Okay.

Next question is from Haley Jones.

Thoughts on how black people are represented in the show Gilded Age?

We're starting to see more representation in period pieces, but do you feel like black voices are being shown enough?

I

like how Gilded Age is thoughtfully integrating black voices.

And I think it follows the same arc as Bridgerton in this.

We don't have enough stories about what happened then, and we are

playing catch-up in an aggressive way.

I also think about the movie centers and the juxtaposition of the black family and the Chinese family, because there are so many communities that built this world that we know nothing about and we are surprised by their representation.

I am always delighted to see more.

I'm always hungry for even more to be shown, but I think we have to give credit to those who are doing it right and encourage more people to do it, more showrunners to do it, more writers to do it.

But it also begs the question of what else can we excavate about who we are in our history so that it doesn't surprise us every time it happens.

I think it's also about like giving more writers and more chances, like create new television, new content.

Because I know like right now we're in a huge era of like reruns of TV shows and like refreshing like movies and sequels.

And I think new stories give us a chance to be more creative and dig into our past.

They do.

And part of the issue is that we've got to support the new stories.

As someone who has a production company and who tries to create new content, who writes books and does all of these things,

it's a business.

And so business is better when people

participate.

When you buy the product, people will give you more product.

When we admire the product, but go and buy the more familiar, then they're going to say, oh, that was nice.

That was prestige, but they're over there buying the product they always bought.

And so we're going to keep giving them that.

So if we want want more, we've got to actually show our hunger for more.

That's very fair.

Okay.

We have an anonymous question.

And kind of going back to what we talked about with Sinners, so rumor has it that you're a huge fan of Buffy.

And

the people want to know,

what was your favorite episode or one of your top five favorite episodes?

Okay, Buffy the Vampire Slayer is one of my favorite shows.

So going back to the question of like great shows, Buffy hits on so many levels constantly.

It is one of those shows I can watch over and over again.

The top three episodes, I think everyone would agree, are Once More With Feeling, even if you don't like musicals, it was a brilliant, brilliant way to tell that story and to dig deep into the arcs of every character.

Hush, because a show with no sound that is that terrifying is just extraordinary.

And the show that will always, the episode that will always make me cry is The Body

when

Buffy loses her mom, a show that has

no soundtrack.

It is just the characters responding to each other.

And

what it demonstrates, if you look at all three of those episodes, it's how important dialogue is and is not, how important sound is and is not.

But overall, how critical story is.

And Buffy is one of the all-time great stories of capacity and perseverance and hardship and heartache and joy and courage.

I love Buffy.

Makes me very happy.

I also love Buffy.

I watched the entire series in high school, and I believe that also Willow was one of the first openly queer characters on television in the 90s, which is also beautiful and incredible representation.

Speaking of vampires, is there any other vampire content that has come out within the last 15 years that you're a fan of?

Like Twilight, interview with the vampire sinners?

So I not only loved Buffy, I watched every episode of Angel, which I will say had probably one of the best series finales of all time.

The last line is, I've always wanted to fight a dragon.

Like just, you just have to know how great that arc was.

Also a very big fan of supernatural.

So I like vampires, but I i like all of the supernatural stuff and i i love the boys and castiel so yes i'm a huge supernatural fan uh made it all of the seasons and

yeah we could have a conversation about the main characters anytime um

they're so pretty anyway so they are they're very pretty

they're really pretty I got to do a Zoom with them and it was just really hard to form sentences.

And they're lovely humans.

It was just wonderful.

If you're going to be hot, like, don't be nice.

Like, you can't throw me off like that.

Here's a whole trend right now about how Jensen Akles is just too much.

He is hot.

He can dance.

He can sing.

He's got a new show that I just discovered yesterday on

Amazon.

So it's flagged.

So when I have more than five minutes, it's my next show that I'm going to watch.

But yeah.

Oh my gosh.

It's too much.

Okay.

This is great.

Have you ever considered writing a character that is otherworldly or magical?

Or do you like to stay rooted in the real world, talking about things as supernatural characters?

Oh, no, I love supernatural.

I love sci-fi.

I have two books that are sort of sitting in my to write pile.

One is a children's book,

a tween book,

that

the one of the characters,

he's in my head.

His name is Queleig Fleeing.

And

his teacher describes him as special in a way that really, really is not.

And so,

yeah, but he's, but I know who he is and he's an otherworldly character.

I have another book that I started and like two chapters in.

And it's a woman or a man who wakes up and there's someone like sitting inside him, not another, it's like another person.

Anyway, I love the mystical.

I love the science fiction.

I haven't quite figured out what this other person is doing there because he passes out in front of the refrigerator and comes to and there's like another person sitting inside him and he's not sure what happened.

I'm not either.

And it's, I'm two chapters in, and I'm still confused about what's going on.

So, as soon as I figure it out, I'll let y'all know.

Oh my gosh.

Well, I'm excited to read that.

Um, Stacey, how do you have the time to do all these things?

This is so impressive.

Like, we don't have the same hours in the day.

I'm convinced.

I, I enjoy, like, I am incredibly privileged to get to try

lots of things.

And

the way I best describe it is: I don't mind failing at things, I don't mind not being the best at what I do, which gives me the freedom to try the things that appeal to me.

I don't begrudge myself happiness or

just a respite.

And television does that for me.

Movies will do that for me.

Really good books do that for me.

I let myself have permission.

And too often we hold ourselves accountable

for not doing enough.

I think we have to hold ourselves accountable for doing what we can, and that means also taking care of ourselves so we can do more.

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Think you know your breaking point?

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We also have some questions from some familiar faces.

Your friends Jennifer Lewis and Wilson Cruz sent in some video questions.

So we're going to start with Jennifer Lewis.

Hi, I'm Jennifer Lewis

and

I am a big fan of Stacey Abrams.

She called and asked me to come down to Georgia and campaign with her when she was running for governor.

And I can't tell you how honored I was.

We went door to door.

We got on buses.

We got in cars.

We campaigned.

And I felt great because I knew, as I know now, Stacey Abrams gets the job done.

And what I want to ask you, first of all, I just want to say thank you.

Thank you for what you do for all of us.

My question

my question is how do you

get through the day to day

of having so much thrown at us

so quickly they they every day there's something new and harsh and evil even

So I know that I sit at this piano and I scream out my passion.

I also give when I can.

I work in my community.

And I know you do some of those things, but

what do you do?

How do you handle this?

What keeps you strong?

What keeps you

climbing the mountain every day?

Yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you, Jennifer Lewis, for such

a profound question and such a kind

engagement.

You described sitting at your piano.

I sit at my keyboard.

You described going out to serve.

I do that when I can in ways that I can.

We both believe in finding joy, which can sound innocuous.

It can sound flighty.

But joy is at power.

It is hard to withstand

such concentrated, intensive, repetitive assault if

you don't look for joy.

Because the goal is to break us down.

The goal is not the defeat by demise, is the defeat by numbing.

It is to convince us that we're not entitled to more.

So why would we ask for more?

Autocracies don't rise because people are gone.

They rise because people are cowed, because people are convinced that this is as good as it gets.

And so for me, part of my responsibility is to make sure people have the information to know what they're entitled to,

but that we also believe that it's worth getting to the other side.

And whether that's because there's another good episode of Love Island waiting for you, or because there is a book that you forgot that you wanted to read, or a person you forgot that you wanted to talk to.

That's what we have to do.

I have five brothers and sisters who are extraordinarily important to me.

I have two parents that I love dearly.

I have six nieces and nephews.

I have brothers and sisters-in-law, and they are all part of why I do what I do, but they're also part of my renewal system.

This is hard.

It is hard watching people be hurt with a cruelty and an intentionality that speaks to the worst examples of humanity.

This isn't new.

We've seen this happen and we can list off

the dictators and the mean

people.

And mean seems like too easy a word, but we can name who those people are.

We can name those points in society.

But we can also remember who survived it and who gave us joy and who gave us clarity and who gave us respite.

And when you can name those people in those moments, that's what renews me.

If they could do it, I can.

And

if I can, then someone else can.

And our greatest victory is not their demise.

It's our rise.

That's the work that we have to do.

We have to keep rising.

We have to keep renewing.

We have to keep doing because it's really, really annoying to them.

And if we keep doing it, we will win.

Thank you, Stacey.

That was really needed in this crazy time and experience that we're living in.

So, our next question is from Wilson Cruz.

Hi, everyone.

This is Wilson Cruz.

I am an actor and also at the moment, the board chair of a national nonprofit called Clisson,

which works to make schools safe for all students across this nation, including LGBTQ students.

Hi, Stacey.

First of all, I love that I get to call you that because you're one of my heroes.

So

feather in my cap.

But

congratulations on the success of this amazing podcast, Assembly Required, which has been such a lifeline for those of us who need access to our leaders right now for their guidance and their wisdom.

And you are definitely providing a lot of that through this podcast.

So thank you as a regular listener.

So congratulations and thank you.

I guess my question to you right now at this moment in which we are

seeing that the Supreme Court has cleared the way for this administration to dismantle the Department of Education and

the fact that this terrible bill has passed, which is going to affect so many of our students, especially our black black and brown students,

especially those who are queer.

So my question to you is,

what tools can we provide?

What tools do you think would be helpful for our young people at this moment as they navigate this moment through their education, but also in a way that allows them to advocate for the betterment of that education going forward.

What can they do to be active participants in making sure that they get to live up to their full potential?

I love you and thank you for this opportunity.

So Wilson Cruz is one of my favorite people.

We got to work together on Star Trek Discovery.

where he played an intrepid doctor who saved lives across galaxies, dimensions, and timetables.

But what he does in real life is speak up for communities that are too often not simply left out and left behind, but are made the targets of venom and of

just a horrid display of bias that is just unconscionable.

Unfortunately, our Supreme Court has said they're going to make it easier.

With the dismantling of the Department of Education, comes the dismantling of the civil rights division of the Department of Education.

Ostensibly, that's going to be moved over to the Department of Justice, but since they've also been dismantling their civil rights functions, there will be no recourse for so many students who are in desperate need of the protections of our laws.

But that doesn't mean they can't get protected by the people in their communities.

And so I'm going to talk to the adults first and then the kids.

The adults need to show up, irrespective of whether you have a child in a school system.

If you have a school in your community, you need to show up.

Children are afraid.

They are under siege.

They are lost.

And while we can bemoan the esoteric conversation of the state of education, we're talking about real people.

We're talking about those who are so young that they are legally not permitted to be on their own.

They are our responsibility.

And so that means volunteering.

Whatever your topic of interest is, show up.

Show up to read at a school if you prefer the little ones.

Show up to volunteer at a basketball game or a football game, but show up.

Ask your school system how you can help.

Ask the teachers that you see in your neighborhood what they need.

Right now, our educators are under extraordinary pressure, and they need to know that we are there, not just for their charges, but for them.

Watching Abbott Elementary will pretty much give you a life lesson on what you need to do to help your schools.

So do all of the stuff they say, but make sure you're showing up.

PTA, yes, it's a parent-teacher association,

but all of us have an opportunity to be there and be a part of what needs to happen.

So show up.

For young people,

I got started being a troublemaker.

long before I was old enough to cast a ballot.

And when I say troublemaker, I don't mean making trouble and mischief for no good reason.

I mean speaking up.

We are responsible for speaking up for ourselves.

We may not have the ability to cast a vote, but there are adults who listen to us and there are adults who need to see us.

There should be no reason for young people not to show up at school board meetings, but you should also get your parents to take you to city council meetings and county commission meetings.

When the state legislatures are meeting in your state, show up because they control the bulk of the money that comes to your school system is determined by what the state does.

And so they try to keep young people separated from power for as long as possible.

And then suddenly you're told either you have power or you don't have power.

We've got all the power we're willing to take.

And when you're young, you haven't learned enough about no to believe that you shouldn't have a yes.

So show up in the spaces, but also ask for help.

I have what I refer to as my borrowed teenager.

I have a niece.

She just turned 19 recently.

She was on my very first episode of Assembly Required.

I have learned so much about being a good person from her.

You are more powerful than you know.

You are more capable than you realize.

And while it does seem like the world ignores you, you are controlling so much of our world.

You know more than we do.

You have more knowledge, more information, but you also have the ability to hold us accountable.

That doesn't mean we're going to make the changes that you need, but don't let us get away with saying we didn't know.

Talk to us, tell us, show us, and make us better.

Wow.

That was incredible.

And I will say, like, as an old Gen Z, I think oftentimes growing up, people try to like diminish your power.

And often when I had those moments, I thought of Gloria Anzaldúa's short story, How to Tame a Wild Tongue,

which is just about how she talked a lot as a kid and spoke up and advocated for other people.

And everyone tried to silence her.

And

she never backed down.

And I think if your heart is in the right place, then whatever you're saying or whatever you want to advocate for has value.

Absolutely.

My most recent children's book is called Stacey Speaks Up.

And it's about the importance of empathy and advocacy.

And it's about how kids can help solve problems that adults sometimes don't see.

And that's why I think, Carol, what you just said is so incredibly important.

It's about using your voice, but it's also about recognizing that the adults should be doing what you need them to to do.

So make sure they know what you need.

Yeah.

So tell your parents off.

I'm kidding.

Don't do that.

Don't do that.

Totally.

Do not get me canceled.

We got all the way through this episode.

Do not get me canceled.

I'm so sorry.

I'm so close.

I'm just like, wait, you're almost free.

Okay.

Well, Stacey, that wraps our listener mailbag.

Thank you so much for doing this.

And thank you so much for your incredible.

answers.

This was a delight.

And thank you to everyone who wrote in.

My apologies to anyone who sent in a question we didn't get to.

We're going to do this again.

Thank you, especially to Jennifer Lewis and Wilson Cruz, who answered the phone when I called and asked questions that I needed to hear.

I am always grateful to the audience of Assembly Required for asking tough questions, being thoughtful listeners, and more importantly, doing the things we need to do to make our world better.

So, thank you so much.

As always on Assembly Required, we're here to give you real, actionable tools to face today's challenges.

I want to thank everyone again for sending in your questions for today's special episode of Assembly Required.

We covered so much today from cryptocurrency to why Supernatural and Buffy the Vampire Slayer are two of the best shows ever.

But as always, we want to leave you with some actionable tools to face today's tough challenges.

Crooked's Vote Save America is running a pilot program for the 2026 cycle to recruit you, our listeners, to run for office.

Whether it's school board, city council, state legislature, or anything in between, VSA's in-state partners have identified the races that need candidates and are ready to help you run for office.

Learn more about the program and sign up at votesaveamerica.com/slash run.

As always, if you like what you hear, be sure to share this episode and subscribe on all your favorite platforms.

And to meet the demands of the algorithm, please rate the show and leave a comment.

You can find us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you go to listen and learn.

If you have a question for me, send it in.

You can start with an email to assemblyrequired at crooked.com or leave us a voicemail and you and your questions and comments might be featured on the pod.

Our number is 213-293-9509.

I want to take a second and say thank you.

You may have noticed a different background behind me.

That's because I am in Miami for my book tour for my new novel, Coded Justice, out now.

And I want to say thank you because we're at this amazing studio, Accord Studios in Miami.

And I want to particularly thank Rocky Weiler and Robbie Cambo for their help today.

Well, that wraps up this episode of Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams.

Be careful out there and I'll meet you here next week.

Assembly Required is a crooked media production.

Our lead show producer is Lacey Roberts and our associate producer is Farah Safari.

Kirill Pallaviev is our video producer.

This episode was recorded and mixed by Charlotte Landis.

Our theme song is by Vasilis Photopoulos.

Thank you to Matt DeGroote, Kyle Seglin, Tyler Boozer, Ben Hescoat, and Priyanka Muntha for production support.

Our executive producers are Katie Long and me, Stacey Abrams.

Think you know your breaking point?

If you're a woman with weak bones due to osteoporosis after menopause, sadly, you may not.

Women can lose up to 20% of their bone density within five to seven years after menopause, making bones weaker and more likely to break.

And after the first fracture, we're five times more likely to break another bone within a year.

It could happen from a simple slip or just bending to lift a bag of groceries.

Don't wait for a breaking point.

Visit bonebreakingpoint.com to learn about how osteoporosis medications can reduce the risk of fractures.