How to Find the Funny in Times of Crisis (with Amber Ruffin)

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Welcome to Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams from Crooked Media.

I'm your host, Stacey Abrams.

In my family, I have a very specific reputation for telling extremely dumb jokes.

At any given moment, I may call your phone and ask you a question like, have you read that book on anti-gravity?

I have.

I couldn't put it down.

Or I might reel you in with a complex yarn about McJagger, a frog, and a bank teller.

I'm telling you, it is a hilarious joke.

But as many of you cringe, several of you felt an involuntary smile.

I believe in the knock-knock joke, the pun, and yes, the dad joke.

I hold tight to the instinct to laugh, despite the horrors around us, because I refuse to allow the craven and the mean to take away my capacity for joy.

Every society has some version of the comedic as a way to navigate the hard, the bitter, or the tragic.

Comedy takes many forms.

Improv, stand-up specials, sitcoms, and the land of political humor.

It's where jokes collide with headlines and turn chaos into catharsis.

More than a way to distract, comedy in the right hands becomes a means of understanding our world and not being overwhelmed by the complexity.

But unpacking and repackaging all of that takes serious talent and sometimes it takes entire teams to not only keep up with the never-ending news cycle, but to understand it enough to spin it into something smart, sharp, and hilarious.

And that's why this week I'm talking to someone who knows how to laugh through the darkness: the ever-brilliant comedian, writer, and actress Amber Ruffin.

She's joining me to talk about how we can navigate this grueling moment in time with more laughter, more humor, and maybe just a little less worry.

I'm so excited to have you.

Thank you so much for being here.

Yay!

I'm so excited to be here.

And by here, I mean in my home.

Well, I appreciate that because if you were in my house, we'd have to have a different conversation

about how you got here, who let you in, where have you been hiding?

So, don't mind it.

Don't mind it.

Okay.

Well, I do want to actually start our conversation off by asking you for some professional advice.

Oh, great.

Okay.

So, a few days ago, during my conversations about autocracy, I made a comment about how this country might be going the way of

tyranny.

And apparently I upset some folks.

Amber Ruffin, I need you to tell me what to say in response to Caroline Levitt, the White House press secretary, calling me stupid Stacey.

I didn't do playground bullying very often as a kid, so I would love your professional advice about how I should respond.

Now,

look,

you have many options here before you.

You can take the high road, which is the road you're going to take because you're spacy freaking Abrams.

Or,

or you can tell the truth about this woman and be like,

you are a big silly dum-dum that no one likes.

You embarrass yourself and your country on a daily basis.

Eventually, your descendants will be ashamed of the legacy you've left behind.

You have bent the knee and hurt a billion people in the process.

I mean, or you could just call her stupid, whatever,

whichever road you want to take, it's up to you.

Well,

I appreciate the professional advice, and I knew you'd be the right person to ask because you too have taken the high road a few times.

I know back in April, when you were, I think, wrongly cut from speaking at the White House correspondent dinner because the organization decided to, quote, refocus the event on journalistic excellence rather than the politics of division, whatever that means.

Amber, you decided to take the high road, but can you talk about how you found out that you were cut and what your actual initial reaction was?

When I was cut,

my agents called me and told me I was cut.

And

I

really was like, well I could see it because I was cut because I went on a podcast and was like

these people crazy and

I

was

you know just talking to talk I wasn't really like making a statement blah blah blue

so I see where they're coming from where you could look at it like well this was she was

you know really on purpose trying to divide everyone but baby, we already divided.

I can't help, I mean, what?

I can shine a light on the line that divides us, but I can't further divide this already fractured nation.

I can't.

And

if I could, I would.

Let's split up.

Stay away from me.

Shoot.

But to be serious about it, they called and then I was really sad, but they called when all my friends had met at my place so that we could go out for brunch.

So I was finding a drink or two.

Okay.

But it did hurt my feelings.

And then I, you know, afterwards was like, okay, I got to cancel the dress.

I got to cancel the hair.

I got to cancel the this end of that.

And one of the things I had to cancel was my bodyguard.

And I was like, maybe

there's a world in which I had no business doing this to begin with.

That's just a possibility that exists.

But yeah, it's a real,

I mean, you've had to live that way, but I don't.

I write jokes.

I Google what rhymes with fart once a week.

So like for me, for me to be like, I need to find a qualified bodyguard.

Yeah, then maybe.

I'm making some poor decisions.

Well, since a podcast may have cost you that opportunity, opportunity, I'd like to use my podcast to offer you the chance to deliver one of the jokes you would have delivered if that's something you feel up to.

There was going to be a running gag throughout where I was like, you know, just laying bare the fact that journalists are in terrible danger and who knows what's going to happen.

And then I would have them cut to the young journalist that the evening was about.

And then I would keep going, cut away from the children.

You have to spare the children just anytime just cut cut to laura ingraham just don't cut to the children so yeah i

i was gonna i was gonna have quite a loud and rowdy white house correspondence dinner but i was gonna end by saying

human beings are made to love each other.

We're not made for this hate.

This feels wrong and weird and sweaty because it's not our natural state.

So if someone's trying to convince you

to hate people because they're different than you, they're using you and that's not what you're for.

Blah, blah, blah.

Peace and love, flowers, ramps.

And now, now applause.

Yeah.

So, well, let's take a step back.

I'd love to learn more about what brought you to your career.

Like, why comedy?

Who or what was your inspiration?

Were you going to be an accountant otherwise?

Like, what happened?

I honestly think that.

Well, my plan was when I was young, I was going to carry the mail and then at night do local theater.

Okay.

And

I do think like I'm a naturally extremely happy person.

That would have been the life.

That would have been great.

Can you imagine delivering the mail and be like, hey, how's your dog?

And the dog's like, bark, bark.

And you give the dog a treat.

You go to the next house.

There's a little baby.

You watch the baby grow up.

I mean, I'm sorry.

I'm just programmed to have a good time.

I really think I would have loved it.

But I do think I had hoped that I would be able to perform.

And what's sad about it is I was like, oh, well, maybe I'll be in this show or that.

And as I was casting myself in these shows, I was like, the best friend.

You know what I mean?

Or the silly neighbor.

And it never occurred to me that I would ever be the center of any performance of any kind.

So that has been like a real big surprise.

Well, why do you think you didn't see yourself in that role?

Well,

because

I never saw myself as the center of a show or performance because

there wasn't

a black woman in the center of almost any performance.

You know, when I was young, there was lightning Lightning in a Bottle, Whoopi Goldberg, end of list, you know, and I had to take all of Whoopee's roles and then just squeeze the possibility out of it

to give myself enough hope to keep going as a writer and a little comedy guy.

Well, we've got a lot of folks who listen to the show who have a recurring theme to their questions.

And it's, this is not who I am.

Being called to activism, being called to engagement in this moment is not who I saw myself being.

How did you move yourself from being on, you know, being the best friend, being the funny neighbor, to recognizing that you could be the center of attention?

And even though there weren't a lot of people who preceded you, you could be the one who carved the path.

How did you create that shift for yourself?

Stacey, it's the shock of a century.

I really do think, like, before,

you know, there's two of me, before 2020 and after 2020.

Like the murder of George Floyd changed my DNA.

It changed me.

So

like when I was young, I used to say,

you know, Martin Luther King did a lot for humanity

and he had to.

What if Martin Luther King was a concert flautist?

We would never freaking know.

What if he was the best carpenter of all time?

We wouldn't know.

We don't have a chapter two on this man

because

he was

born in a time when he had one choice and that was to fight, you know.

And I thought, oh, how spoiled am I?

that that will never be something that I feel called to do.

And nope, no, absolutely not.

Absolutely not.

And now it's,

you know, I started working in comedy in 2003, I want to say, I'm old.

But then after 2020, you know, it was very hard to write sketches when you knew you had the power to draw a line between

what's horrible.

and what can we laugh at, you know, because it's so, I've watched it help people, you know, and heal people and give people a different perspective.

So it's hard to change what you do.

Luckily at late night, everything we do is tied to topical this and topical that.

So it's stuff we would be talking about anyway.

So that helps some, but dang, girl.

2020 changed me for sure.

Well, let's talk about 2020.

Look, one of the things that most profoundly disturbs me about our current discourse is that issues issues like racism, sexism, xenophobia, homophobia, they get relegated to the issue of being culture rather than us actually calling them out for what they are.

It's bigotry.

It's discrimination.

But if you call it culture, then it's just a choice that people are making as opposed to questioning the humanity of another.

And

I refuse to use that language.

I correct it wherever I can.

I don't get invited to many places anymore because of my approach to it.

But, you know, the Amber Ruffin show, which debuted during the first Trump administration, for me was one of those revelatory moments.

It was this spot on addition for how the corruption and carnage could happen, but also how we had the right to respond and to push back.

Because even then, you talked about how angry you were that the media wasn't calling out Trump on what were too often dismissed as cultural issues.

And very specifically, you decried how easily the media accepted this casual and targeted racism.

So, I want you to talk to me about how do you assess how the media is doing this time around since it's now on steroids, but also,

how do we,

your loyal audience, how do we take what you give us in these moments and in these spots and in these sketches to help change how people talk about culture so they understand the difference?

Yeah, I feel like

there are a lot of things

comedy can do do for the moment.

You know, and one of them is

allow people to work through this stuff, you know, because how you feel

when

you are

non-binary and the president's commercial on television was like, yuck, the they, thems, yuck.

Like that

changes the air you breathe and it it hurts deep.

It's the land you're stepping on.

So you need time to work through it and

understand what it means to you.

And comedy allows that time.

Just looking someone in the eye when they say,

the fact that this happened is bad.

It lifts so much more than you think.

And, you know, once I got my mind around that, I was like, oh, well, this will be a tenet of the Amber Ruffin show.

Once people started being like, I felt bad until you called the bad thing bad.

Now I feel good.

I was like, geez, Louise.

Yeah.

That's so basic.

And that's how insidious it is.

Like, it seems like a sentence and the damage it does is almost endless.

So to get out there and, yeah, we fight, we have to fight hard and

also every little thing does so much more than you think.

When you go, I think.

this behavior is gross.

It does a lot.

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Well, we know, and i i hate quoting him but andrew breitbart you know famously said that politics lives downstream from culture and you know the translation is that if you can change the culture you can change the politics and if you can change the politics you change the government we are living in this moment where things are harder and meaner and yet we know comedy changes culture Your show, both the Amber Ruffin show and we're going to get to your new show in a moment, you know, you once said that you can only become an expert by being in horrible danger.

And I'm very glad you didn't have to use your bodyguard.

But when we think about the risks that we have to take in this moment, the risks that can be taken with comedy, the risks that we have to take with culture,

where do you think the average person should go?

And where do you think your colleagues should be?

The line keeps moving.

So

when danger was overseas and it was before 2020, I was like, well, that doesn't really affect me

and then when 2020 came and

and danger came to my doorstep I was like oh I'm I'm a straight up in the streets screaming you know madman

so then but it hasn't reached a lot of doorsteps hey hasn't reached the doorstep of a lot of comedians you heard

so

their point of view is just all the way different than ours.

And it,

I mean,

there's also white fatigue, right?

They can't take it, but a little bit.

My sister tells this story about how she

used to work at this place where

one of the supervisor of the kitchen was white.

Everyone who worked in the kitchen was black.

He would call everyone hood rats and he would this and he would that and he wouldn't get air conditioning blah Lacey told HR they fired him and they replaced him.

And they replaced him with a very bad work

manager.

She went back to HR and they were like, Ugh, we already did this.

And he probably still works there to this day.

But their white fatigue is so real.

It's so real that thing number two will get people tired.

So

I feel like there's a few people who can stay

angry,

you know, and it's a shame to use the word angry, but that's the only lens through which you can see this and be a normal human being.

And when I hear people talk about it so separated from what is happening, I'm like,

how can you do that?

How can you be a human being and see people being snatched off the street and talk about it with such distance?

You know, how isn't this

hurtful to ingest every day?

Girl, I don't know.

But also there's another aspect of it, right?

Where it is people have to can only ingest what they can and stay sane.

I would argue that if you are watching the news 24 hours a day,

you're going to have a bad life.

This is

the smallest amount of news I've ever ingested in my entire life because late night with Seth Myers

has a lot of hiatuses and have I Got News for You doesn't come back until September.

So this is the happiest I've been in a while.

And then every Monday happens and then I'll watch my little seven o'clock news and whoo, we,

it's up.

And the things you miss in between, right?

Girl,

it's a mess.

So who besides you is out there who's being particularly brilliant about using comedy to tackle the current political moment?

So, when you do your Monday deep dive into despair, who do you go to to help you sort of recalibrate?

P.S.

Deep Dive into Despair is not a bad name for this podcast.

I think that,

of course,

John Oliver is on the front lines

comedy-wise, and he's engaged and he's angry.

And

people accept it coming from this man.

When he gets angry, people are like, yeah, I love it.

But even like, even other late night hosts, when they get mad, they're like, no, no, no.

But for some reason, John Oliver found the secret sauce.

But then, of course, I think the best person out there is Seth Meyers.

Yes.

Because he has, he's relegated a whole, the whole second act

of his entire television show.

He was like,

the world has become so bad that instead of having the extra guest, instead of having that, you know,

guy in a B costume dancing in the audience, instead of that, we're just going to do a deep dive into what is happening in the world because it was moving at such a clip that people just were

uninformed but also couldn't ingest it without

feeling terrible and i i think uh the segment is called a closer look and i think a closer look has helped a lot of us live has there ever been a moment when when you were put on the spot and you couldn't find the funny Like, what do you do in those places where in the deep dive of despair, you just can't surface?

Oh, well,

that's a good question because lots of times, I shouldn't say lots, but a few very notable times in Ruffin Show, we were just like,

there is nothing funny about this.

Like, I forget which murderous cop it was, but one of them went to jail, whoever the first one was to go to jail.

we did a segment called a broken clock and we were like a broken clock is right

twice a day.

So yeah, don't, let's not, don't, don't get sleepy.

And then

there was also right when George Floyd was murdered for late night Seth, I opened up the show for a week straight.

Each day I told a different story about how I had been arrested by the cops.

And people,

I don't think ever, ever, I think might be right close to ever had sent me mail at late night Seth Meyers in my entire life.

And I'd been on that show for eight years at that point, something like that.

And then

six.

And then

after that, people would send in mail and be like, okay, finally,

I understand it because I see you and I know who you are.

And I've been looking at you for years.

And then, you know,

to put you next to an angry cop with a gun really draws the line of, oh, there aren't really requirements for who gets harassed and who doesn't.

There's just one and I'm wearing it, you know?

And when people would tell me that revelation, that really, that I found very heartening.

Do you think that that exposure to you and your stories opens up an aperture for more comedians to do that?

Or do you think you occupy a unique space and it would be dangerous for others to try it?

That's a great question.

I feel

like I was allowed to

say exactly what I wanted and to say exactly what I felt because of the people I'm surrounded with.

Seth Meyers is like, what you want to do, how you want to do it, let's do it.

He doesn't give a rip.

But I think

other people

aren't surrounded by that type of community.

And I think a lot of comedians

are

scared of being vulnerable, you know, because it's an incredibly vulnerable thing to be like, I

am scared when I'm driving down the street and there's a cop car behind me.

I'm really scared in a real gross way.

I don't think a lot of people like to say that

without a punchline,

but

I.

I think it's okay to do, you know, I think you can be a human being and you can be a a little joke machine.

And I, I, I think I've found people like it.

Well, as a constant customer, yes, it is true.

People like it.

I mean, look, I know Have I Got News for You isn't coming back until September, but you know, being a political comedian is extremely difficult because you don't just have to understand what's going on.

You have to understand it enough to write jokes about it.

So How do you and your co-hosts decide what's going to be the most important thing?

And what in the world are you going to do with the summer that is about to hit us?

Like, are you, are you stockpiling jokes?

Are you just going to burrow through?

Like, how are you going to approach the premiere in September for Have I Got News For You?

Well, when we go on, Have I Got News for You, Michael Ian Black and I are the team captains, and it's hosted by Roy Wood Jr.

So there's a team of writers that come up with all of the things we'll be talking about.

And, you know, it's just a panel show, loosely dressed as a game show so we don't know what the show is going to be about

so when we discuss things that's the first time i've really talked to michael about it it's the first time we've talked to roy about it and we didn't know a lot of that stuff we didn't even hear about so

it really heavily relies on us being silly people and it only lightly relies on us being

you know overly informed and we we don't write at all.

And that's the beauty of that freaking show, dude.

I show up, a lady puts makeup on me, another lady puts me in a cute little jacket, and they shove me out and I sit in a chair.

It is so nice.

It's so nice.

And I goof off with some of the funniest people on the planet.

I'm very lucky.

Well, I'm going to just make a pitch to you that you all, when you return, that you add at least once a Hamilton-themed segment called What Did I Miss?

Where you guys just have to recap

everything that happened because I'm missing you guys right now.

And I want you all to have to make up for all of the time that you're not going to be on the air.

And I want to see what y'all do with that.

That you need a job as a writer.

This is money on the table because that's a great idea.

You heard it here first, folks.

Stacey Abrams vows to be on Have I Got News for You.

So expect that.

I will be there.

Okay, I'm going to tell you, I am a consumer of the things I talk about.

So, like, one of my favorite segments on late night was the segment called Jokes Seth Can't Tell, where you and another writer would make jokes that Seth couldn't tell.

Because if you don't know who Seth Meyers is, he's a straight white man.

Amber Ruffin is not.

And then you and your sister Lacey co-wrote that best-selling book about what would happen to her on a regular basis in Omaha.

As, you know, I think the white fatigue story is in there.

And, you know, you all, you do a lot where you don't hide identity and bury it in your comedy, but you also don't allow identity to be dismissed.

How have you navigated this tendency that you identified that has made people sometimes afraid?

You've decided that even as Trump-style politics have made overt and performative racism acceptable, you've confronted it.

How do you do that and why?

I am

really lucky in that I must.

I can't.

In my family, I must.

You know, in my social circles, I must.

You know,

it's a lot

easier to just be like, look, I don't do that.

And I'm sure that's a happier life, I think.

But

I just don't want to

miss out on the people that could have come here with us.

You know what I mean?

I want to be.

I do it because

I feel like everyone, if everyone had the same information I have, they would all come to the same conclusion.

So anytime I can get that information out there, I'm going to do it.

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So at the top of the show, I mentioned the attack on me by Caroline Levitt, and it was in response to a piece I did.

I was on Jimmy Kimmel pitching my new book.

And in the process, I talked about the steps to autocracy.

And one of those steps, in fact, one of the early steps is going after free speech.

It is trying to shut down the media so that it cannot help us understand and tell the truth.

And yet, just last week, Paramount settled a Trump lawsuit over Kamala Harris's 60-minute interview, and they agreed to pay him $16 million,

which in any other universe would look like extortion.

And unfortunately, in this term, this attack on free speech is being treated very blasély.

You know, as someone who is visible and out front making political comedy, how do you think about confronting this very real authoritarian threat to free speech, which comes after comedians?

In every nation state where we've seen autocracy rise, comedians are often on the front lines of both pushing back, but also facing the consequences for refusing to bow.

Yeah.

My passport is ready, and my car is full of gas.

Okay.

Are you going to tell us where you're headed?

Nope.

Okay.

That's a secret.

Okay.

No, but I do honestly, I'm like, buddy,

it could all

happen.

And I, it's terrifying, right?

And I wasn't, okay.

Trump won the second time.

I immediately walked into my bedroom and looked, my passport was expired.

Got online, made that appointment.

Got a new passport, put a bunch of stuff in a little bag.

I'm ready to go in case of anything.

Didn't really think about it, didn't really think about it.

Cut to

last week or two weeks ago when he started putting all those jails together.

And I was like, well, now, now we're, now we're a little bit closer to

jail forever, or at least until the next president, if there is one.

So I'm not sure.

I'm not sure.

How do you feel?

Because you got to be, because if I'm in danger, you're in danger.

I will say the response on Instagram to my most recent conversation is very different than the response on X,

where the invective and the commentary is not light and happy, and it is not encouraging.

But where I see my responsibility is

it's grounded in, I don't get to leave because

they don't get to win.

This is my country.

My patriotism tells me that I have to defend diversity.

I have to stand up for equity.

I have to demand inclusion and that you can't do those things if you aren't in the mix.

But that is not to say to others that there aren't different choices that can be made.

My analysis is always,

what do I risk if I walk away and what can I gain if I I stay?

And as long as that calculus for me says that there is just a scintilla of possibility, then I'm congenitally

bounded by my need to stay here.

I grew up in the South.

Like we've been practicing for this for a while.

And in my mind,

I've got the muscle memory to navigate this.

I don't think any American really understands just how dangerous this moment is unless you've lived under parts of this type of regime change.

There are immigrants who get it, there are southerners who get it, and there are people of color and communities of

vulnerability and marginalized communities that get it, but we all have this collective responsibility to find our way through it.

So

that's how I navigate.

Black people from the South are at an advantage as far as like being able to be like, oh,

this again.

Because the difference between how I'm acting and how Roy Wood Jr.

is acting.

Like, he's like, I've been here before.

I'm like, what are we going to do?

I'm from Omaha, Nebraska.

So, yeah, we're having two different experiences out here.

Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia,

we get a certain level of training.

I mean, it begins when they teach you that it's called the War of Northern Aggression, as opposed to the Civil War.

Like, you don't get the Civil War until you're in high school.

Before then, there's a lot of conditioning.

And luckily, I had parents who would deprogram us when we got home from school.

But you do.

You learn how

not just how much there is, but that this is ours.

This is not something we've borrowed.

This is something our communities have built.

And no matter which community we're talking about, I was lucky enough to have Deb Holland as a guest, who reminded us that the parks and public lands used to belong to Native Americans.

We know that if you are in the southern half of this country, if you are Hispanic, you were part of what built America and California owes so much to the immigration of Asian Americans.

And then this nation writ large was built by communities that didn't always have a choice about what they did, but we do have a choice about what we do.

And that for me is the

non-negotiable in how I navigate it.

Stacey Abrams, you're inspiring.

Amber Ruffin, you're awesome.

So I'm going to ask you one last question because I ask all of my guests to give a piece of actionable advice for the audience.

And so,

you have talked about anger, about fury, you've talked about disappointment.

You have a car that is gassed up and ready to get out of here, but you're still here and you're still going.

What can you tell people?

How can you give people a reason to keep their sense of humor right now?

I feel like a healthy you

is a strong you.

Like the solution can't come to a

sad mind.

You know, if you are full of giggles and full of energy and you sat down and you've taken your four deep breaths, then you can get there and you can do it.

But once your spirit is broken, you can still do it, but it'll be a hell of a lot harder.

It'll be a hell of a lot slower.

But if you keep your spirit happy, if you ingest comedy, if you never go on X,

Stacey, shame, shame, there's nothing on there for you, yes, ma'am.

If you try to stay off social media in general, then or do what I do.

Okay, now this is real advice.

Okay,

now none of us should have any social media, and that is real.

But if you have TikTok and you're starting to get a little addicted to it, delete everyone you're following and then just follow

puppies and babies.

That's where I'm at.

This baby is trying this pickle for the first time.

And 90% of what I ingest in a day is little babies eating pickles for the first time.

That's what my body needs.

I just got to listen to myself.

Okay.

Well, my F my FYP right now has babies who are dancing.

The ones who discovered hip-hop, but don't know that's what they are doing is hilarious.

Yes.

Yes.

But I'm also going to tell you that the title of your next book is A Solution Can't Come to a Sad Mind.

That is a fantastic.

You said it.

I just said it back to you.

So you remember that you did it.

But that should be your next book because Amber Ruffin, we are waiting for what else you have to offer.

And here at Assembly Required, we say thank you for taking time to be with us.

Oh, yay!

Thanks for having me.

I love it here.

Come back.

Okay, great.

As always on Assembly Required, we're here to give you real actionable tools to face today's biggest challenges.

In this episode, Amber and I talked a lot about finding humor in dark times.

The past six months have been heavy, exhausting, and scary.

So your work this week, if you can, is take a breath.

If you listen to this show, I know you've already done your week's worth of news consumption.

You care.

You're paying attention, you're trying to make the world better.

But none of it is possible if you're not taking care of yourself first.

Amber told us that.

So, my one and only action item this week is simple: do something that makes you laugh.

Watch one of Amber's shows, binge your favorite comfort show, look up some of these knock dock jokes I mentioned, read something light, spend time with people who make you feel good.

But whatever it is, make sure it puts a genuine smile on your face.

You deserve that.

Now, more than ever.

And as always, if you like what you hear, be sure to share this episode and subscribe on all of your favorite platforms.

And to meet the demands of the algorithms, please rate the show and leave a comment.

You can find us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you go to listen.

Speaking of which, we're preparing an entire episode of listener questions.

So if you have a question for me, send it in.

You can start with an email to assemblyrequired at crooked.com or leave us a voicemail and you and your questions and comments might be featured on the pod.

Our number is 213-293-9509.

That wraps up this episode of Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams.

Be careful out there and I'll meet you here next week.

Assembly Required is a crooked media production.

Our lead show producer is Lacey Roberts, and our associate producer is Farah Safari.

Kirill Polaviev is our video producer.

This episode was recorded and mixed by Charlotte Landis.

Our theme song is by Vasilis Fotopoulos.

Thank you to Matt DeGroat, Kyle Seglund, Tyler Boozer, Ben Hethcote, and Priyanka Mantha for production support.

Our executive producers are Katie Long and me, Stacey Abrams.

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