Plotting Our Way Forward by Looking Back at History (with Heather Cox Richardson)

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Welcome to Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams from Crooked Media.

I'm your host, Stacey Abrams.

We are recording this on November 11th, six days after Election Day.

What we know is that Republicans will control the White House and the U.S.

Senate.

The leadership of the House of Representatives is still being tallied, so we'll keep you posted.

We also know that reactions continue to swirl and percolate, and I'm sure at this point, you've heard plenty of theories about who or what is to blame.

You know, at the end of the day, the economy, the economy, the economy, inflation, it affects everyone's lives.

You're paying double for food.

Too many Americans just don't believe that the system works for them, and they're not wrong.

Well-known on-air personalities are asking what what role gender and race played, including our own ABC News Live prime anchor, Lindsay Davis.

One thing that stands out, a less diverse electorate.

When you think about even just at large with the world, of the 193 UN member nations, only 13 have a woman who leads them.

Black women are often the last to the table when it comes to even pay disparity in this country, getting 67 cents on the dollar when it comes to white men.

I think that that is kind of the elephant in the room that we're not talking about because we're not just talking talking about having a woman, we're talking about having a woman of color.

And I think that that's something that we cannot underestimate.

The reality is all of these can be true and still not be the actual answer.

The mistake we keep making is treating these issues as separate conversations.

A single mother worried about grocery prices is often the same woman fighting for reproductive rights and heaven help her if she's a woman of color.

A factory worker concerned about job security might also be an immigrant whose mixed status family has a future that hangs in the balance.

They can all be true.

Now, there are other shows, including Fantastic Ones right here on Crooked Media, that will dive into these questions and try to figure out what should have been said or done or thought about to tackle and better address what eventually happened.

I'm not going to do that.

Why not?

Because we have another task here at Assembly Required.

It's why I wanted to do this show.

I believe we have to go beyond where we are and figure out what we can do about it.

And that means focusing on what is the current problem.

Why is it a problem?

And how do we solve it?

Yes, understanding why people voted against protecting the interests and rights of their fellow Americans is one facet of the problem, but it's a perennial one.

And I'm not going to be diving into the the psyche of voters whose actions unequivocally led to the solidification of an avowed, unapologetic, right-wing government that has as its central project a radical return to marginalization, bigotry, oligarchy, kleptocracy, and stripping citizens of their human rights again.

But instead, I'm going to ask you to join me in focusing on how we confront this oncoming avalanche of horrific policy and terrible outcomes, but how we also can excavate and create possible responses so we can salvage what we can until we can get to what we need.

Because we can work towards the improbable and actually make that happen too.

Now, this is not blind optimism or false hope.

It's about determination, which means recognizing that losing an election does not deny us power unless we choose to relinquish it.

And I mean it.

We have to choose to give up.

We have to choose to give in.

We have to choose not to try.

But I don't think we will.

And I'm going to keep reminding you.

I know it can be done because I'm a black woman from the deep south who has seen change happen.

Now, the work is hard, it is painful, and as we discovered six days ago, we will be betrayed.

betrayed.

But we can do it anyway because it is our right.

One of my favorite television scenes ever is from the West Wing.

Leo is counseling a traumatized Josh who has been refusing help.

After Josh admits what's wrong to his therapist, he wanders through the White House and he finds Leo waiting for him.

Josh is surprised to see him, and Leo decides to tell Josh a story.

He says, this guy's walking down a street when he falls in a hole.

The walls are so steep he can't get out.

A doctor passes by, and the guy shouts up, Hey, can you help me out?

The doctor writes a prescription, throws it down the hole, and moves on.

Then a priest comes along, and the guy shouts up, Father, I'm down in this hole.

Can you help me out?

The priest writes out a prayer and throws it down in the hole, and he moves on.

But then a friend walks by.

Hey, Joe, it's me.

Can you help me out?

And the friend jumps in the hole.

Our guy says, are you stupid?

Now we're both down here.

But the friend says, yeah, but I've been down here before and I know the way out.

Today, we're jumping into the hole with someone who knows what happened when we faced this before.

And together, we're going to start finding our way out.

My guest is going to help us reconcile this moment with America's history because because knowing where we've been will help us plot and scheme and strategize about how we tactically survive and strategically overcome.

Heather Cox Richardson is a professor of history at Boston College.

She's the author of Democracy Awakening, Notes on the State of America.

She has been the much-needed teacher and voice of guidance for millions of Americans who read her nightly newsletter, Letters from an American.

We're so lucky that she's joining us today after the break.

Heather Cox Richardson, thank you so much for being here.

It is such a pleasure, I have to say.

Thank you.

Well, I'm a huge fan

and you have provided not just insight, but guidance that has been incredibly helpful over the last four years or the last, you know, eight years.

And so it is always an honor to be in your presence.

And there's a lot that I want to accomplish in a very short period of time with you today.

Basically, I need you to help fix everything.

So

I want to start with your immediate reflections on last Tuesday's elections, not only as a historian, but as a citizen who's experiencing this in this moment.

You know, my first reactions were just heartbreak, not panic, not

surprise, but heartbreak, because I love the United States of America.

I've spent my whole life studying it.

I believe that it can be the best government in the world.

And I do believe there is a movement underway to sort of purge it of the people who are currently in power.

But they lost on Tuesday.

Those ideas lost.

And looking at why they lost, I think, is the work going forward.

But also, you know, just in that moment, I just, I couldn't help but think I'd let Lincoln down.

You know, what I do, I do because of those people who came before us, who worked so hard to make this nation the best it could be.

And we let them down.

So when you think about this election, you just referenced Lincoln and that, of course,

presaged a civil war.

What election, which election does this remind you of and why?

So it actually reminds me a lot of 1896.

I mean, I could do a whole bunch of things

in different ways.

It reminds me of different things.

This is the first election we've ever had where we actually chose to put in power somebody who explicitly rejects democracy.

Now, we've had people before that who honored it more in name than in deed, for sure.

And in 1896, of course, we put William McKinley into the presidency with a program that basically said, much like the MAGA Republicans do, that some people are better than others and have the right to rule.

And the way that you really should run the government is by turning it over to big business.

And it's not an accident that President-elect Donald Trump talks so much about William McKinley.

I mean, I don't think he knows much about William McKinley, but I think he does understand that that was a moment in which the government was put in the hands of business with the idea of creating a very, very wealthy class that could run everything and everybody else would work for them.

And it looks very much like that to me, in which I find also a ray of hope.

When we get to the hope part of this program, I can tell you why.

Well, let's jump ahead to hope and we'll, because we'll, we'll go dark again, so we can do a little bit of hope now.

Okay, so the thing about the late 19th century is that at the national level, the robber barons, if you will, took hold through largely the Republican Party, although there were some Democrats as well who were part of that idea that only the rich should rule, should run everything.

But when that happened, there was something really interesting that happened in the National Democratic Party.

And that's that after

generations of following the elite southern enslavers and then the Confederate leaders after the Civil War, they really got shellacked in 1879 and 1880.

And when that happened, the Democratic Party decided to switch its base to the urban cities.

And when they did that, when they switched to the urban cities, primarily in New York under Tammany Hall, after Tammany Hall had ceased to be corrupt, what they tended to do was to put in place governments that were progressive, that tried to take care of the community, that desegregated the New York City police force, for example, that took women seriously and tried to integrate them into the body politic.

And it was that kind of government that led directly to first the inclusion of women in politics because the Tammany Hall people, once they stopped being corrupt, had to figure out how actually to answer the needs of city people.

And the women who knew that were the settlement house workers, of course.

But then that led directly to the national government of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, which gave us the New Deal, the system under which we've lived.

So what we're seeing now, it feels very much to me, is a rejection at the national level of that community-based New Deal government that we lived under from 1933 to 1981 and then was chipped away at until 2021 when Joe Biden and Kamala Harris tried to recreate it in a really powerful way.

That's been rejected.

And it seems to me that a lot of those efforts to create a community-based progressive society are moving back to the states and to the local governments.

And you can see in this last election, there's a huge gap between what people voted for at the state and local level, which is abortion rights and higher minimum wages and the rejection of voucher systems in the education field of education and so on at the local and state level versus voting for Trump and the MAGA Republicans at the national level.

That's a very important delta, I think, that says a lot about where the American people actually are.

And what does it tell us?

Well, it tells us that people like the policies of the Democrats.

We know that.

We know that if people don't understand whether something is a Republican program or a Democratic program, overwhelmingly, they go for the Democratic programs.

And similarly, if people were informed about what was really happening in immigration and over the tariffs and in the economy, they voted for Kamala Harris.

And if they didn't, if they were poisoned by disinformation, they voted for Trump and the MAGA Republicans.

So those systems still remain popular.

They have always been popular since FDR put them in place in 1933.

You know, that's what people want.

The problem, of course, is that often they are poisoned by the disinformation that says that those things are not delivering for them.

Well, in fact, in your newsletter the night after the election, you wrote about the disinformation ecosystem and the role it played.

And I mean, this isn't new.

Disinformation is not new, but it feels like a very specific threat in the the digital age.

And we know it's only going to become more of a challenge as technology evolves.

Can you talk about how disinformation has been a tool for political shifts before?

And then, again, what do we realistically do about it?

That's actually quite a complicated question, and I'm happy to talk about it.

It's important to remember that we have always had spin.

Like there's always been a few dirty tricks.

There's always been spin.

And one of my favorite examples of that is in some of the early elections in

the early Republic.

One of my favorite dirty tricks that a candidate would play on another candidate was simply to tell the newspapers that his opponent was dead.

You know, because it's very hard when you don't have modern media to say, no, no, I'm not dead.

You know, so that was a, you know, we've always had that kind of that kind of spin and lies.

There's always an element of that for sure.

But there's something, you know, I often say to people that I'm really happy studying American history up until the 1920s, you know, because even if you don't like some of the characters, you can respect that they are acting honestly, as in they are advancing the arguments that they truly believe.

But that changes in the post-war period.

And it changes in the post-war period after you get this introduction of the New Deal government and then it becomes the middle way government under Eisenhower, the idea of a government that regulates business and protects a basic social safety net and promotes infrastructure and protects civil rights.

Those things are popular.

And the people who want to destroy that, initially at first, largely businessmen, but also bringing into that coalition the Dixiecrats, the Southern racist Democrats, and the religious traditionalists who want to restore the idea of a patriarchal society in which women especially, but also people of color answer to the needs of white men.

They recognize that when they keep going in front of voters and saying, you know, we need to get rid of this government, we need to go back to the 1920s, people are looking at them and saying, what are you talking about?

You know, I have a house, I have a car, I have a union job, I got four kids.

Why on earth would I want to go back to a world in which I was living in a packing box and didn't have any money?

So what they do quite deliberately is they begin to lie, essentially.

And this starts in the 1950s, the idea that you have to feed people a narrative that can

skew the way they vote that does not reflect reality.

And you can see this quite deliberately in the work, for example, of William F.

Buckley Jr., who talks about doing this in God and Man at Yale in his 1951 book and does it there, similarly in his 1954 book, McCarthy and His Enemies.

You see him saying we really need to just advance this narrative to get people on our side.

And we need to get rid of this idea that people should be able to exercise academic freedom.

The subtitle of God and Man at Yale was the superstition of academic freedom, because you don't want people to be able to contemplate a world without God, for example, doing the ordering of society.

And you don't want people to be able to

think about a world in which there is not an economic system based in the idea of markets that enable people to monopolize a lot of wealth.

So one of the things that you see growing out of that is this increasing emphasis on a narrative that does not reflect reality.

And of course, Ronald Reagan was the master of that when he ran for office in 1980 but that got you know more and more stoked first with the introduction of talk radio in the mid 1980s after the end of the fairness doctrine and then by the middle of the 90s with the establishment of the fox news channel which was never news it was always an entertainment channel but people thought it was news until you get to the place we are where we are now which i think beginning really in 2015 we supercharged that disinformation system because it became reflected in this idea that is articulated out of Russia by Russian political theorists that you can get people to vote away a democracy if you create a disinformation world that will enable them to to react to a false world rather than a real one.

And we saw that in 2015 and 2016 with Cambridge Analytica and the way they salted throughout social media this false vision of the world.

And that's really never gone away.

And one of the things that you see now, I'm not one of the people who says that those of us in the reality-based community can never reclaim that community, but there is no doubt in my mind that we have to go where the people are and talk to actual people about the world.

So it's not Joe Rogan, for example, operating without any kind of counter narrative, but that in fact we are able to meet the needs of people for reality every place that they are.

So how do we do that?

I mean, we live in a world right now where the right has weaponized history.

They have intentionally erased parts of the American story.

Textbooks are being altered.

Certain books are being banned.

And there are communities, and to your point, there are intellectual frames of inquiry that are being attacked and banished.

And so how do those of us in the reality-based space, how do we reclaim it from those who not only traffic in disinformation, but grow powerful because of how easily it's consumed?

What's our instruction?

What do we do?

Well,

just one of my pet peeves about the way we talk about the ways in which MAGA Republicans are altering history is that we tend to look at the stories that are being excluded from our national narrative, and that's crucially important.

You know, if you look at the curricula that

the social studies curriculum, not just history curricula that Florida Governor Ron DeSantis tried to put in place or some of the curriculum from Oklahoma, what you see is the erasure of, you know, Black Americans, but overwhelmingly as well, Asian Americans and Indigenous Americans who simply really disappear, which is sort of astonishing if you think about the two states I just identified.

But what, while that's really important, what if you read that curriculum, what you find is really missing is agency.

There is an utter erasure of the idea that we should teach our young people that they have agency to change the world.

And that's a really, really important piece.

So, the other thing that I would say in terms of how do we get these messages out, I mean, one of the places that people who care about progress have been slow to show up is in social media.

So, if you look as I have been looking today at how people get their media versus how they vote, you will see that if people read newspapers, they are overwhelmingly voting for Democrats.

And similarly, if you get all your news from TikTok and from especially from

YouTube, you tend to vote Republican.

And if you think about it, the entry of people who are reality-based, and I'm not, you know, people talk about Democrats being on the left.

And I got to tell you, the current day Democrats are to the right of Dwight D.

Eisenhower, who was a Republican.

So this is very much a center, and I would even say a center-right party.

We don't have an operative left in the political sphere in this moment.

But the people who are interested in a reality-based community really have only entered

YouTube recently.

There's some, for sure, but if you look at the ubiquity of the right-wing podcasters over there, they really have had a monopoly.

And similarly, on TikTok, and similarly in those spaces, there is far more right-wing matter than there is reality-based matter.

And I think that's just a question of showing up and being there.

That being said, the other really important piece of what I think we're seeing is local media, which has been decimated in the last generation or so and has been replaced by right-wing media like Sinclair.

And the answer to that, many people are trying to start up new newspapers and so on in the local sphere.

And I'm playing with more the idea that

it's expensive to start a newspaper, but it's not expensive to have a podcast.

It's not expensive to write online.

And my guess is that those of us who care about local media will be able to start the sort of reality-based information systems at the local level on some of the free online platforms.

Like I started Letters from an American on Facebook and

Substack.

I mean, I did that for at least a year, I think,

for free, just because I felt like writing.

And there's no law that says that a lot of people couldn't do the same.

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Let's listen in on a live, unscripted Challenger School class.

They're reviewing the American Revolution.

The British were initiating force and the Americans were retaliating.

Okay.

Where did they initiate force?

It started in their taxation without representation.

Why is that wrong?

The purpose of a government is to protect individual rights and by encroaching on individual rights, they cannot protect them.

Welcome to eighth grade at Challenger School.

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How do we call people into action?

Is it that all of the people listening to this podcast that they start their own newsletter?

Like, what is that?

What's that call to action as a historian who has seen how movements are built,

who understands how information, I mean, you are, I know folks who've taken your classes.

You are an amazing teacher.

How are we telling those listening to this podcast to take what you've just said and activate it?

You know, it's so interesting you put it that way in terms of my teaching.

I had never thought of that.

What I do in my classrooms and what I hope I do through the newsletter is empower people.

And, you know, I have never wanted power for myself.

I've never understood people who wanted power.

I've always wanted to empower other people to direct their lives.

So when I think about this next action moment, you know, I mean, you know, not everybody wants to write all day, but some people do.

And what I would say is that one of the key ways to fight back against an authoritarian government is to bring your best game, to bring the best game you have at whatever it is that you are really good at, because those

that kind of contribution to a society, whether it's organizing a car wash for the kids at the high school to raise money for a soccer field, or whether it's helping people at the nursing home, or whether it's being

a lawyer who can fight immigration cases, whatever you are good at, to bring that to a community and to build a community, a supportive community that makes the best of the people in it and the work within it gives them joy is the way that you bring down an authoritarian because they feed on fear and distrust and anger.

And to the degree to which you can say, no, that does not have a home here.

What has a home here is people doing the best they can for each other and the best they can for themselves in terms of bringing their talents talents forward.

So, I would say that, sure, if there are people out there who know how to write, as the Tennessee Holler did, or as so many of these smaller newspapers are, you go and I'll do anything I can do to help you.

But if that's not your thing, find what is your thing and carry that forward in this moment.

Perfectly said.

So, I'm going to shift gears because you flagged one of the most jarring parts of this election and the most imminent danger that seems to be eliding those who voted.

The notion that democracy itself is in danger did not sway 51% of American voters.

And you and I first met during a conversation about voter suppression, voter access.

And of course, you've written very eloquently on the fragility of our political infrastructure.

Why didn't the message work?

Do you know, honestly, I think the answer to that, and I hear this all the time, I think the answer to that is because the system has worked so well since the 1940s that people believe it's always going to be there.

And by that, I mean that for most of the history of our time since World War II, the two parties have jockeyed about

to what degree we should regulate business, to what degree we should have a basic social safety net, to what degree we should work on infrastructure, and to what degree

we should support civil rights.

But they have agreed on that framework.

And I don't think Americans have any concept that that framework can go away.

You know, one of the things that I used to hear all the time was, oh, they'll never come for Social Security.

That's here.

That's never going anywhere.

And I would sit there and say,

read the

Republican study group.

It's there.

And they're like, oh, that's just democratic scare tactics.

And, you know, I think that there's an awful lot of things that Americans thought would always be there.

And so they never really bothered to learn how they work.

NATO is another thing.

There are many ways in which the post-World War II guardrails of

world order did not work.

And there's plenty of room to criticize them.

And obviously the Biden administration reordered them in, I think, some pretty profound ways, although it got almost no press.

Important ways that I think would have have and will continue to do good if they're left in place.

I have no more hope that they will be left in place.

But as somebody said to me recently, if you don't think you like the world order that the United States and Europe put in place, just wait till you try the world order that Russia and China are going to put in place.

Because under that system, if, for example, China decides it just wants to break the United States of America's supply chains for a year or so, they can do it.

And that's, I think, a reality that most Americans just cannot imagine happening.

But it's there.

One of the ways this election

is analogous to, but not identical to, is that it reminds me of Nixon v.

Humphrey, when a sitting president didn't stand for a re-election and Nixon employed his southern strategy.

Then there's Ronald Reagan 44 years ago when he launched his campaign at the Neshoba County Fair where civil rights activists were murdered.

And then you have Trump, who galvanized populations by not only leaning into these divisive tropes and demagoguery, but also

really up the ante

by

repealing access to human rights for women in his last go-round.

One of the subtexts to all three of these is this idea of states' rights.

And going back to your point about the difference in how people voted locally versus on the federal level, can you explain the concept of states' rights in current terms?

And I'd love to just hear your thoughts about the implications in this moment.

So, the way in which you just characterize states' rights is very much a holdover from the pre-Civil War years in the American South.

And that, of course, is overturned by the federal government, Republicans in the federal government, incidentally, in 1868 with the addition of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution.

And what that amendment does is it says that the federal government will guarantee that state governments cannot discriminate against people within their borders, against citizens in their borders.

That's hugely important, and it's really not honored for the rest of the 19th century.

But in the 1950s, after, again, after World War II, the Supreme Court began to use the 14th Amendment to override state laws that were discriminating against Americans, first against brown Americans, then black Americans, and then of course against women, especially in the

Roe v.

Wade decision of 1973.

That idea that the federal government is overriding states' rights, which under the 14th Amendment it is supposed to do.

The 14th is the second of three amendments that

actually give power to the federal government.

Until the 13th, all the amendments to the Constitution take power away from the federal government.

The 13th, 14th, and 15th give power to the federal government.

But when that happened, there was a backlash against the idea primarily of guaranteeing equal rights to black Americans in the southern states.

And those people who were against that

worked together with those who were trying to get rid of the government regulation of business to say that the judges who were instituting the kinds of rulings that they were were judicial activists.

They were changing the way America worked without the benefit of voting.

And they began this process of trying to take back first the courts, but also the federal government to make sure that that would not happen and to devolve power back to the states.

And that, of course, is what you saw under Republicans after Reagan going forward, but then really going into hyperdrive under Donald Trump, who with the Dobbs v.

Jackson Women's Health Organization.

managed, thanks to the three judges he put on the Supreme Court, to throw the protection of women's health actually back on the states, where we instantly got the kinds of abortion bans that have caused deaths and horrific cases across the country.

This moment is really interesting though because they have gone so far that the states that want to protect equal rights are pushing back and saying, no, in fact, we want to continue to, for people in our state to have health care, for example, or to make sure that you don't have concealed carry of weapons all over our state, or that you have good education, or that we have business regulation.

And again, one of the things about our federal system is now our states, California, Illinois, Massachusetts are the three that, New York are the three that spring to mind right now, are places where the state governments are saying, we're not going to let you take your reactionary federalism into our society.

We're going to push back against that.

And

it's a reversal.

It's going to be an interesting reversal because, unlike in the past, when the states that were trying to keep the federal government out of operation within them were poor and

were not really

the big players in the national scene, California, Illinois, New York, Massachusetts, those are wealthy, wealthy states that, you know, California is the fifth largest economy in the world.

It could be its own country.

So the fact that it is saying it's going to stand against the federal government in these specific places is

a real reversal.

And it's going to be interesting to see if the MAGA Republicans can convince their supporters to put up with troops going into the blue states that are standing against mega Republicans when their whole idea has been that they don't want to have a federal government that overreaches.

Right.

This has been an extraordinary conversation, and you've done exactly what I wanted you to do.

But one of the other things we need to do is give people homework, which I know you're also very good at.

So we've given them one directive.

But what are two other calls to action or homework that we can give our audience if they want to do something?

Well, first of all, I mean it about moving forward with what you do best and doing it with joy.

Second is do not do it alone.

You know, this is a moment for communities.

This is the moment when you push back against the fear and the isolation with your friends.

And that the rebuilding of community is incredibly important.

And I don't just mean with your next door neighbor, although that's important as well.

Online communities matter.

You know, one of the things that we tend to downplay is the idea of online communities.

But there's real family out there through the internet, as long as you're being careful to be part of a reality-based community there on the internet.

But then

I would also say that if you think about information, one of the things that always jumps out to me is the degree to which so many of us, when we saw

radicalism rising among our family members and among our friends, kept quiet because we were, you know, trying to keep the peace or trying to, you know, not to embarrass people when they said stupid stuff.

That moment is past.

It's really time, if we talk about the spread of information to push back against the lies and to say, no, that's not really what happened.

This is what happened.

And to get your sources from, or get your information from sources that are verifiable fact.

And that the way you, you know, I'm an idealist.

And by that, I don't mean, I always joke and say, it doesn't mean I can hunt ducks with a rake.

What it means is that I believe you change society by changing ideas.

And the way you change ideas is you change the public conversation.

And stepping back and keeping your mouth shut right now is absolutely not the way to change the public conversation.

Remember that in this election, as I say, the policies that won were common sense policies that were embraced by the Democrats at the state and local levels.

But the...

mega-Republicans who won at the national level won by an extraordinarily thin slice of the electorate.

This is not a landslide.

This is not a great statement about the direction the United States people want to go.

It's a statement about our government and the need to reassert those values that I hope, and I actually believe the majority of us embrace.

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Let's listen in on a live, unscripted Challenger School class.

They're reviewing the American Revolution.

The British were initiating force and the Americans were retaliating.

Okay.

Where did they initiate force?

It started in their taxation without representation.

Why is that wrong?

The purpose of a government is to protect individual rights and by encroaching on individual rights they cannot protect them.

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Learn more at challengerschool.com.

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Heather, I'm going to ask you to indulge me for one more minute.

We have some audience questions, and I'd love to have you help me answer the first one before I let you go.

And in fact, you just alluded to it, but the questions, I'm combining two questions, one from Anna and one from Connie.

And Anna asked, regarding this recent election cycle, it appears that fewer people showed up to vote than in 2016.

Yet all the news keeps saying that more people voted for Trump than in 2016.

How is that possible if there are fewer voters?

And then Connie Faulkner asked, was turnout the result of voter suppression?

Lawsuits, gerrymandering, stripping voter rights, intimidation of voters, intimidation of voter registration and their voter roles.

What impact did all of that have on the results in battleground and non-battleground states?

So I will not speak to the actual numbers of votes in this last election because I'm not a numbers person.

I work with numbers people, and I can tell you they are very good, and I'm waiting to see what they have to say.

The second one I will answer, absolutely.

Voter suppression has been a problem in the United States since 1998,

when Florida put in place a voter ID law after a mayoral race in Miami that ironically did not have any Democrats running in it.

But the 1998 voter suppression law from Florida kicked about 100,000 voters off the rolls that year.

And if you remember,

in the year 2000, the vote between Al Gore and George W.

Bush came in at a few, at a handful of votes.

I think it was about 517, although don't quote me on that.

And the butterfly ballots that people blame for that outcome were, in fact, really misleading, and it did have a huge effort.

But come on, if you've just lost 100,000 voters off the rolls before that, and you know, I actually wrote to somebody after this election and I said, why is nobody talking about the slew of voter suppression bills that were put in place after 2021?

You know, you cannot look at these numbers and say, oh, gee, where did all the Democrats go and not take a look at the voter suppression?

There's a wonderful book by our friend

Carol Anderson called One Person No Vote, in which the whole introduction of it is the pundits who reacted to the first election after the Roberts Court gutted the Voting Rights Act and said, where are all the black people?

The black people didn't show up.

They must be upset.

Where are the black people?

And Carol, who's a phenomenal historian, said, this is voter suppression, you morons.

Although she put it a little bit more nicely than that.

So, yes, not by much, though.

That's right.

Oh my gosh, she's so funny.

But, but, yeah, that's that's a huge thing.

And actually, that's one of the directions that

it feels to me like we could be going.

That this is certainly what people like Peter Thiel and Elon Musk, and

I mean, I could go down a whole list of people have talked about: is they really, really want to get rid of voting.

And this is not just getting rid of minority, racial, and ethnic voting and women voting.

This is getting rid of all the people that they do not consider to be worthy of having a voice in the body politic voting.

And this, too, we have seen before.

And after Mississippi put in place a new constitution in 1890 that cut black Americans out of the vote in a number of different ways.

Every single state in the Union, with the exception of Massachusetts, rewrote their state constitutions largely in ways that threw out poor voting.

And that was not only poor black Americans, but also poor white Americans whose numbers dropped out of the rolls in high numbers.

And that's actually, I think,

very reflective of where we are today.

Absolutely.

Well, Heather, you have been an extraordinary guest.

You are a remarkable American citizen who helps us stay grounded every night.

and wake up every morning recommitted to our democracy.

So thank you so much for joining us here on Assembly Required.

Well, thank you for having me anytime.

It's always a pleasure.

Once again, we are so grateful to Heather Cox-Richardson, but we have a few more questions I want to answer.

There's a question from Emily Drake.

She writes, thank you for making this podcast.

I listen every week and it really makes a difference to me.

Thank you.

When Trump won in 2016, I met my sisters and my mother in DC for the Women's March.

And my biggest takeaway from that experience was from listening to America Ferreira speak that day.

Her speech was so moving, and her directive to white women, like me, was to follow women of color because whatever this country needs, the women of color know it truly.

So that's what I do.

I follow you and others, and I try to use my privilege as best I can for good.

So I guess my question to you is, how can I best help this movement to go forward?

I know there are great many ways, but any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I would begin with saying everything that Heather called on us to do is what we do writ large.

It is about being active and engaged and believing that we can fix this because we can fix this.

But I think there is a specific moment that we're in.

And in particular, the outcome of the election and the widely spread conversations about who voted and how has created tensions and friction.

And so my

contribution to the conversation is threefold.

The way to be most helpful, first and foremost, is to listen.

In this moment, what so many black women and women of color want is to be heard.

That

is so critical because the outcome of the election seemed to tell us to shut up.

And so rather than lecturing about what it means or apologizing because it happened, just listen

so that women of color know they're actually being heard.

Our human instinct, our women instinct is often to just try and fix it, but that will come later.

You can prove you can be a good ally first by simply listening.

Second is inform.

You're going to be invited into spaces we aren't.

And you're going to see avenues of action we can't.

So tell us what you know and conspire with us to leverage these opportunities.

That ability to be an informant is critical.

It is what works in almost every spy movie, and it can work as we try to figure out our way forward.

And then third, of course, is to act.

When the time comes to engage, show up and pitch in.

It should take actual effort and risk, not performance, but actual effort and actual risk.

That's what what movement requires.

It would be comfortable to do something performative, but if it doesn't require you to put your comfort at jeopardy, then it's not action.

So do what you can and show up.

Here's our next question.

We've got two questions from Brian Armstrong, and he asks, what are some jobs in politics or advocacy or similar that would be good for someone like me who wants to work on this stuff all the time?

So first I say welcome.

I would tell you that for much of the work that needs to be done to mitigate federal policy, we actually urgently need state and local action.

And again, as Heather pointed out, the disparity in voting for the presidency versus on ballot initiatives or for legislative leaders was fairly stark.

And that means that we've got to focus our attention where they will next turn their attention, and that is state and local action.

And so here are some ways to get involved.

Number one, volunteer for a campaign or run for office.

Across the country, we will have local political races throughout 2025 and 26.

So find out who's running for local office and volunteer.

And if you don't have a candidate already running, find one and become that person.

We elect people for everything.

So even if you live in a blue area with really great liberal leaders, look for the jobs that no one else is standing for and look for the places where no one goes because it seems too hard.

Look for the role that appeals to your interest and your skills.

And if you want to find out more, go to usa.gov, put in your address and you can find out most, if not all, of the elected positions in your area.

Number two, volunteer for an organization.

Community matters.

Infrastructure matters.

So look for organizations that are focused on the issues that concern you and see if they have job openings.

But a barrier for so many of us, and this goes to the crux of your question about doing this all the time, is that politics and advocacy don't have much money to spare.

So employment in these areas can be really hard to get.

That doesn't mean it's impossible, but it also means you can't wait until they can afford to hire you to afford to get involved.

There are groups that need volunteers.

And if you can help raise money, you might actually be able to create a paid position for yourself.

I've actually done that a time or two.

So, look at groups like Indivisible, Working America, Together for Hope, or Southern Economic Advancement Project.

In full disclosure, I founded this nonpartisan organization, but they have links to hundreds of organizations across the south.

Look for organizations that need your help, especially those organizations that are focused on the policy issues that are going to be implicated, and sign up to be of support.

And then, number three, make a donation.

You're giving of your time, but we've got to give of our treasure.

The other side is always willing to invest.

And here's the thing.

It is a self-fulfilling prophecy that if we don't invest in the organizations or the candidates that we need, they are underfunded and we get what we get.

Ignore the numbers that we hear about at the federal level.

We are focusing on state and local action, and that's where the money is needed the most and it's where it can go the furthest.

But investing doesn't mean you have to give five or six figures.

Give what matters to you to get what matters to you.

Make sure you put your money in.

We are in this and we can get this done.

And then the last question is, do you have any outside the box ideas or ideas that may require some assembly to get out there and speak up?

Is there room for another podcast or YouTube show?

Okay, as Heather just laid out, I think extraordinarily well, we have to to flood the zone.

We are fighting a war of attrition when it comes to truth.

I love the fact that she referred to this as a reality-based assignment.

So when you're doing this, when you are starting your new podcast, when you're creating that YouTube show, we all want to be successful.

That's part of who we are.

But we can't do it hoping that's the only outcome.

So we have to start doing things for good.

And if we are lucky, if more happens, fantastic.

But as Heather described, sometimes you just got to get it out there.

We've got to be out there doing it to tell the truth, to reclaim our capacity to remain in this country as a democracy, because we are facing authoritarian regimes that do not intend to stop.

And we have watched across the world an election cycle in 2024.

where authoritarianism grew, where even those who stumbled managed to right themselves and continued to retain power.

And so we have to be out there telling the truth, creating reality and reminding people about what's at risk and what's at stake.

We have entered a new era.

And so on this platform, we're going to be even more so highlighting those out-of-the-box ideas.

We're going to be encouraging action.

We're going to be comparing notes on how we're doing.

This is a new world, and we intend to step into it in this campaign of making the world better.

And so we invite you to stay with us.

Make sure you subscribe on your podcast app and on YouTube.

Share this with your community and know that when you find your new podcast, when you create your new show, let us know about it because we're going to build this new reality together.

Each week, we want to leave the audience with a new way to act against what can feel inevitable, an opportunity to make a difference and a way to get involved, or just to get started on working on a solution, in a segment we like to call our toolkit.

At Assembly Required, we encourage the audience to be curious, solve problems, and do good.

Right now, I know it can feel hard to pick up after a devastating defeat and immediately start doing,

especially because we're in this waiting period before Trump's inauguration with a countdown clock for his policies to begin doing damage slowly ticking.

So, my recommendations this week are going to be a little different.

You can still start with being curious, but it's okay if that comes in the form of taking a walk and observing the space around you, or reading something not on the internet, or binge-watching a good show guaranteed to make you laugh.

I'd recommend, for reading purposes, What You Are Looking For is in the Library by Machiko Iowama, or The Dead Cat Tail Assassins by P.

Jelly Clark.

I'm also re-watching the entirety of Brooklyn 99.

As for doing good and solving problems, we'll be spending more time on action items in the weeks ahead, but for now, look for local organizations in your area that might be starting to collect donations or need volunteers for the upcoming holidays.

Visit unitedway.org to get started.

Remember, it's the smallest gestures that can build community and remind us why there's work worth doing.

If you want to tell us what you've learned and solved, send us an email at assemblyrequired at crooked.com or leave us a voicemail and you and your questions and comments might be featured on the pod.

Our number is 213-293-9509.

That wraps up this episode of Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams.

Meet you here next week.

Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams is a crooked media production.

Our lead show producer is Alona Minkowski, and our associate producer is Paulina Velasco.

Kirill Polaviev is our video producer.

This episode was recorded and mixed by Evan Sutton.

Our theme song is by Vasilius Watatolis.

Thank you to Matt DeGroat, Kyle Seglu, Tyler Boozer, and Samantha Slossberg for production support.

Our executive producers are Katie Long, Long, Madeline Haringer, and me, Stacey Aprils.

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