Samantha Bee on How the Funny Can Fight Trump and Republicans

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Speaker 1 Welcome to Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams from Crooked Media. I'm your host, Stacey Abrams.

Speaker 1 On Sunday night, seven Democrats and an Independent who caucuses with the Dems voted to invoke cloture, the first step towards ending the Republican government shutdown.

Speaker 1 In regular times, this show of performative pragmatism might be heralded. It demonstrates that once again, Democrats show that they are the only adults in the room.
But these are not regular times.

Speaker 1 America is undergoing an authoritarian overthrow, and business as usual is no match for those who do not believe that the government should do its job. And to act otherwise is dangerously naive.

Speaker 1 This Republican regime has been very clear. They will starve children, the elderly, and the disabled in order to fund billionaire tax breaks.

Speaker 1 They will force workers to go without pay, but command their attendance. They will risk millions of families going without health care rather than extend a tax credit for another year.

Speaker 1 This isn't about politics.

Speaker 2 This is about power.

Speaker 1 And until Democrats at the highest levels of government get this, we are in deep trouble. The real harm Republicans are inflicting on American families is not up for debate.

Speaker 1 What we must decide is if we're going to accept decisions that don't serve us, regardless of who voted for it and why.

Speaker 1 Now, let's be clear: Republicans control the government, and they have proven once again that they will use the Autocrats' playbook to seize more and more control.

Speaker 1 So, we must fight even when our leaders will not.

Speaker 1 You see, Democracy and Democrats had a good day last week with clean sweeps in Virginia, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania, as well as unexpected Democratic flips in Georgia's Public Service Commission races and Mississippi special elections, which broke the Republican supermajority in their state senate.

Speaker 1 Across the country, Americans rallied to show up and cast ballots despite how Republicans are trying to destroy the social safety net.

Speaker 1 The ongoing Republican shutdown has slashed food supports for working families and closed off vital services.

Speaker 1 Flights are being canceled and federal workers are facing another pay period without a paycheck.

Speaker 1 But authoritarianism works best when it proves that democracy can't deliver the basics. That's the point.

Speaker 1 Yet, one of the ways we've long coped with the painful consequences of political cruelty is through the late night interpretation provided by comedians.

Speaker 1 Trump and his allies are terrified of the very power that humor has to reveal their cowardice and show us our potential for winning.

Speaker 1 When comedians make jokes about their foibles and failures, jokes that are often true, informative, and well-deserved, well, they go on the attack.

Speaker 1 Back in September, late night with Jimmy Kimmel was temporarily yanked after what the right called a controversial monologue about Charlie Kirk's murder.

Speaker 1 And the FCC chair threatened to pull ABC's broadcast license, leading to the network temporarily shutting the show down.

Speaker 1 Now look, comedians and late night hosts are hardly the most vulnerable victims of the authoritarian tactics to quash all criticism.

Speaker 1 But as high-profile targets, they do reveal something insidious about how far this regime is willing to go to control the narrative.

Speaker 1 And today's guest, comedian, writer, podcast host, and former host of Full Frontal with Samantha B.

Speaker 1 Samantha B joins us to talk about media censorship in the midst of an authoritarian overthrow of America, the future of late night, and what it means to be a woman in a male-dominated field, and how to crack a joke when nothing feels funny.

Speaker 1 The extraordinary Samantha B, welcome to Assembly Required.

Speaker 2 I am so delighted to be here. Oh my gosh, I love talking to you.
This is going to be so fun. Like, what a bright spot in the day for me personally.

Speaker 1 Me too. Look, me too.
And they are doing their level best to make sure we have enough darkness that the light shines really, really bright.

Speaker 2 It really does. The light shines in all the weirdest little pockets that I wouldn't normally like.
I had a tiny ice cream sandwich before I hopped on with you today. And I was like, feel that.

Speaker 2 Look at that. What an incredible moment.

Speaker 1 So, this is going to be the ice cream sandwich for the week for

Speaker 1 our listeners. Okay.
So, Sam, I want to start with the very beginning and ask, How did you first fall in love with comedy? Why did this become the catalyst for making it your career?

Speaker 2 Well, you know what? I always was a comedic person. Like, I think I actually was always kind of the funniest person in my friend group in a way, but always very quiet, like never the class client.

Speaker 2 Like, I, and that maintenance, that continues to this day. Like, I'm just not a person who ever steps into a room and everyone goes,

Speaker 2 now that she's funny, like

Speaker 2 always

Speaker 2 pretty, actually, like very low-key.

Speaker 2 So I always loved comedy and grew up watching comedy, but never had any inclination toward it as a, I never really thought of it as a career or a possibility, even though examples of that were all around, like religiously watched Carol Burnett, religiously watched, I love Lucy, all of that stuff, you know, sketchcom, SETV.

Speaker 2 I grew up in Canada. I watched it while eating dinner.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I was the first person in my family to go to college. And so that felt like very meaty.
So it was like, the job is get a real, have a real career.

Speaker 2 Like, and it doesn't matter what the career is, but you should probably go to law school. I was kind of bad at math, never took chemistry.
So I was like, okay, I go down a humanities path.

Speaker 2 And then I think you just go, I think you apply to law school and then you become a lawyer and then you become the prime minister. Like, I think that's how it works, kind of.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And in the service of that, in the process of that, I took a theater class at college because I thought it would be very easy. And in fact, it actually was because I loved it so much.

Speaker 2 And it changed the entire course of my life.

Speaker 2 So confusing to my family, who had all these other thoughts about me.

Speaker 2 And then further to that, I later tried comedy because I'm just not a very good serious actor. It turns out that I'm not good at it.

Speaker 1 Are you not good at it or did you not like it as much?

Speaker 2 I think that, well, I think I might not be good at it actually, because I would do like lots of really serious, and I thought of myself as a very serious actor, but I would kind of like be in auditions for very serious parts.

Speaker 2 And everyone will go,

Speaker 2 that was really funny, but this is a serious part. So, I was like, I feel like somebody's saying something.
Like, should I just receive this message from the universe?

Speaker 2 And in the end, my friends forced me to try comedy. And the second I started, I loved it.
Like, it was like one of those like lightning bolt moments where you're like, Oh, I

Speaker 2 feel no

Speaker 2 nervousness. I feel no shame.
I feel, I feel only fully realized on this this spotlight in this dirty ass bar where someone has thrown up on the stage. It was like, oh, I've come into myself.

Speaker 2 And that just kind of, I just kind of, that's how it started, really.

Speaker 2 So you have a podcast called Choice Words,

Speaker 1 where you interview people about the choices they've made. And some are, some of these choices are life-changing and explosive.

Speaker 1 Some of these are choices that we don't even remember, but they've had this long-lasting long-lasting effect. So you chose not to be Prime Minister of Canada and instead become a chose.

Speaker 2 Yes, I did. I chose.
I rejected everybody's insistence that I become the Prime Minister. Well, you know,

Speaker 1 but you also chose to use your comedy in a political space. So you weren't a dramatic actor, but you could have chosen any other route for your comedy.

Speaker 1 Why did you choose political comedy?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 in a way, I will say that it kind of chose me

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 I've always been just a news junkie in camp, just growing up, like always just receiving the news. It was just a part of, like a lot of people, I'm 56 years old, like a lot of people of my generation.

Speaker 2 It was kind of a rich, it was, it was a ritual, a Sunday ritual to watch 60 Minutes, to watch long form journalism, capping off the week.

Speaker 2 And it was just part of the routine that we watched the news, ingested it, processed it. My mom was quite

Speaker 2 very kind of like left-wing. My grandmother was very right, like she really admired Nancy Reagan.
She was like, I want to, I got to wear those pussybow blouses and get my hair set at night.

Speaker 2 Like, and my mom was like, We are boycotting apples. Now we're boycotting grapes.
Now we're like, we were just

Speaker 2 so kind of at the center of this

Speaker 2 woman's sandwich of political ideas was me watching like the Iran-Contra hearings in Canada. So it really was always a part of my life.
And then I, my husband and I became

Speaker 2 really

Speaker 2 just religious viewers of the Daily Show. We got it in Canada.
The moment it came on the air. was John was the host.

Speaker 2 Essentially, that was like when the inaugural ship sailed in Canada and we watched it every single night. We had a little appointment viewing.
We had a little spot for it in our house.

Speaker 2 It was basically the only television we really watched, you know, on the regular.

Speaker 2 And then as my career sort of progressed as a performer and I was kind of failing at it, I wasn't really, I was doing a lot of comedy actually. And that was really kind of filling all those buckets.

Speaker 2 It was, it was really feeding my soul, but it wasn't paying any bills. It was really satisfying and I loved it.

Speaker 2 And I knew that I would perform comedy forever, but it didn't seem like a path to paying a mortgage or having dental care.

Speaker 2 So I was going to leave the business, actually, continue to do comedy in my spare time, in my life, continue to have a tickle trunk filled with crazy wigs in my car at all times until death.

Speaker 2 As one must. Yes.
And then I actually got an audition for The Daily Show in New York. And I was, it was, I was shocked and I thought, okay, well, this will be my swan song.

Speaker 2 Like, I obviously have to leave this business. It's not sustainable for me.
I do have goals for myself. And, um, and one of those goals is being like having a home,

Speaker 2 you know.

Speaker 2 And, um, I got an audition for the daily show. And I was like, you know what? This is actually great because I'll make this the best audition I've ever done in my life because I know this material.

Speaker 2 I know the material. I know the show.
I know the tone. I know everything about it.

Speaker 2 So I'll be great at this. I'll train for it like it's the Olympics.
I'll do an awesome job. I'll leave it all on the floor.
They will not hire me, but I will leave this.

Speaker 2 I will exit this business knowing that I left it all out there. And then they hired me

Speaker 2 because it actually really was a meeting of the minds. So it was like political comedy chose,

Speaker 2 I chose it, it chose me, but simultaneously. And then I never really did anything else.
I mean, I did other stuff, but like I love to write. I've written sitcoms, all that stuff.

Speaker 2 But my heart is political comedy for sure.

Speaker 1 So, what was the backup plan? What were you going to do the day after if you hadn't gotten picked for the daily show?

Speaker 2 Well, I was working at an advertising agency as my part-time job and really messing up my job there, doing a very poor job. Like, I want to say that

Speaker 2 there were billboards that were supposed to be going up all over the city of Toronto and the municipal metropolitan area that never probably went up. And that was all my fault.

Speaker 2 They are probably in arrears for hundreds of thousands of dollars for all the jobs that I screwed up. But I did kind of think, okay, I can start.

Speaker 2 Maybe I'll be more serious about this job and do some copywriting and like start kind of working my way through this business.

Speaker 2 So I didn't, I wouldn't say that I had a huge plan and I definitely considered going back to school, but I did know that the job, the industry could not sustain me, or there was something about it that was,

Speaker 2 I don't love sitting around waiting for people to give me the thumbs up to do things. I don't want someone to give me permission to express myself artistically.

Speaker 2 And a lot of the acting job is the acting industry

Speaker 2 kind of writ large in Canada too, was very much sitting around going, like, I do like you. Actually, you've proven yourself to to me.
Now I like you. And comedy was a way to like

Speaker 2 not care what anybody thought,

Speaker 2 to only be pleasing yourself. And all you really had to do was get 45 members of your family to show up to see you.

Speaker 2 And that was very possible. And that was enough, truly enough for me.

Speaker 1 So, in an alternate universe, Sam B was the Don Draper of Toronto.

Speaker 2 Okay. Oh, definitely.
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Speaker 1 So instead, we get

Speaker 1 Full Frontal with Samantha B, which ran for six years and I will say is one of the smartest, funniest political comedy shows of all time. And I have seen laugh in.

Speaker 2 Uh-oh. So I know.

Speaker 1 I mean, I.

Speaker 2 Thank you. Well, you were on it yourself many times.

Speaker 1 Well, there is that.

Speaker 2 Many times.

Speaker 1 Well, before we talk about me, let's talk about you. So what was the genesis of the show? You were on the daily show

Speaker 1 and then we get full frontal.

Speaker 2 Talk about how that show came about. Well, I would say that, you know, my husband and I were both at the daily show

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 we

Speaker 2 always knew that we wanted to take ownership of our own ideas. We knew that even though it was a great job and we had learned, we were there for a really, really long time.

Speaker 2 We knew that it was going to come to an end because

Speaker 2 you just need a new, honestly, everybody needs a new challenge. They needed fresh talent.
We needed a new challenge.

Speaker 2 And we knew that the new challenge that we would undertake had to have our names on it. Like it had to be our creation.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 while we worked there,

Speaker 2 we wrote lots of pilot scripts together. We sold lots of shows.

Speaker 2 And without much, well, we had sold shows, but they never got green lit. And then John decided he was leaving the daily show.

Speaker 2 One of the pilot scripts that we had written got greenlit,

Speaker 2 got green lit to series at TBS called The Detour, which is a gem. It's a literal gem of a show.

Speaker 2 If anybody, if you can find it anywhere, vast libraries of incredible content have disappeared from the world. The detour may be a victim of that.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And so we decided to leave.

Speaker 2 We've decided to leave the show that what, you know, right around the time that John was leaving, we didn't know what form the show would take after, but it didn't really matter to us because we were launching ourselves in a fresh direction, starting something brand new.

Speaker 2 And then at that time, TBS was like, well, we need a political show. Why don't you do that?

Speaker 2 And I said yes to that opportunity.

Speaker 2 And then I thought, you know, as time passed and we started to produce the daily, the detour and that was incredibly satisfying.

Speaker 2 And then it came time to kind of put the team together to make full frontal. And I really did think, I really, really did think we're only going to have six.
Like we're only going to have six.

Speaker 2 We'll have six episodes of this before we get canceled.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 let's make them six

Speaker 2 wild episodes. Let's say everything we've ever wanted to say.
Like let's express every frustration. And like literally the image I kept using was like, let's just like kick the barn doors down.

Speaker 2 Like let's kick the doors open, set fire to the barn, let's burn it down and then we'll get canceled as, you know, as the business goes. And then we'll just feel great.

Speaker 2 And then we'll have this calling card of this just precious gem that we, you know, that we created and we'll be so proud. And then the show went on for like six and a half more years.

Speaker 2 So it met a moment. It met a moment.

Speaker 2 It met the moment. And I think we consistently met the moment.
And now the moment has truly changed.

Speaker 2 And look, we made it all the way through COVID. We could, we were able to film in the backyard because my husband's in the DGA.
So everything was like squared with all the unions.

Speaker 2 Like it actually was kind of perfect until it ended. And that was really sad.

Speaker 2 That was, that was a really sad moment. And I do feel

Speaker 2 I miss it. I miss the, I miss it.
And I miss the people tremendously. And I miss the collaboration of better minds than mine.

Speaker 2 Like, I miss being in a room with people who are much smarter and better than me, telling

Speaker 2 me things that I've never heard of before.

Speaker 2 I really, really miss that. I don't have that.
My cats don't, they're not nearly as good at pitching stories.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, before I was lucky enough to be featured on the show, and

Speaker 1 we met in person during my 2018 campaign for governor. But before that, your team ran a segment about the Georgia State House during my time as minority leader.

Speaker 1 And in the sketch, you brought attention to this extraordinarily absurd attempt by a Republican legislator to block a bill that would have addressed a massive rape kit backlog in the state.

Speaker 1 And it was your coverage in part that helped us push through the legislation despite opposition. So

Speaker 1 one, just

Speaker 1 I hope you understand and I hope folks listening understand just how real politic sometimes comedy shows can be.

Speaker 1 And that's one of the reasons I wanted you on the show today, because I think all the time about how that comedy show played a role in helping women and some men get justice.

Speaker 1 So how do you think about the role that comedy can play in shedding not just a light on injustice, but shaming bad political actors?

Speaker 2 Well, you know,

Speaker 2 it's difficult because it's not like if you, you know, if you launched a comedy show with the intention to be super consequential politically, like to just change people's life, you would never succeed.

Speaker 2 It's not possible to succeed.

Speaker 2 It has to, you have to earnestly, I think it's, it's tricky because you have to organically care about these stories and have a group of people just like pushing toward a goal of expressing something that has,

Speaker 2 that other people have been working on for ages, but only you can tell the story in this exact way, which is so, which is sharp and short and

Speaker 2 processed in a way that is like an enter. It's an entertainment for people and they're also learning about an issue that they may not be aware of.

Speaker 2 It's like a different, it has a different vibe and it's very digestible and

Speaker 2 very

Speaker 2 just like a beautiful little package that you can present. And everyone goes, What the hell are you talking about?

Speaker 2 Whereas, you know, if you're, everybody's been like hundreds of people working on this issue for 20 years,

Speaker 2 it can get people are get in the weeds. They have other stuff to care about, but if they can digest it in five minutes, so I think that's like it's a very effective tool.
It's a very effective way to

Speaker 2 present information that is digestible and interesting and like fun in a way, even though the subject matter is really hard. And I think that that is the great, the best use of political comedy.

Speaker 2 It's just

Speaker 2 processing information in a way that is also entertaining, which is how I like to receive. I love to receive information in entertaining packages.
Like I will listen to the wonkia stuff for sure.

Speaker 2 But if you,

Speaker 2 I like to be presented with wonky material in a, in a,

Speaker 2 in an entertaining way, with an entertaining voice, in a way that maybe I've never considered before, or like laying out the stakes for me in a way that I can go just walk away from the experience going, oh, this, this, and this.

Speaker 2 You mean all the only thing that has to change is this one little thing, and this problem is resolved in some way. Like

Speaker 2 the Rape Kit Backlog story is one that

Speaker 2 did really affect change in a lot of different places. It really, really did.

Speaker 2 And we don't like, I think generally as comedians, we don't like to claim that because it's not our work that made it happen.

Speaker 2 We just were the end piece, just the little cherry on top of the sundae that made more people mad about it. So that's the only thing I'll claim.

Speaker 1 So I'm going to push back on a little bit because I write romance novels about environmental justice. I write legal thrillers about AI and DEI.

Speaker 1 And I do not believe that my novels or my children's books about, you know, child hunger are going to save the world.

Speaker 1 But what it does do, and I think you just said this, my mission is to help people understand it in a way that feels real and accessible. Yes.

Speaker 1 And what I would say about what you did on your show repeatedly, particularly around the rape kit bill, was that it wasn't just the cherry on the top.

Speaker 1 It was the humanization of a topic in a forum where it was unexpected and therefore it broke through.

Speaker 1 Talking about rape kits on 11 Alive News is not going to necessarily pop when people are hearing about all of the other cruelties.

Speaker 1 But when a comedy show says, look, I'm going to show you both the absurdity of this moment, but also how easy it would be for people to do the right thing.

Speaker 1 I think that's the power of comedy and that's the power of what you did for six years. So I'm not going to let you dismiss it and make a joke of it.

Speaker 2 Okay. Well, thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
But I always like to like, it is one of those things where you're like, okay, well, we, you know,

Speaker 2 I think I like to repeat this to the world, which is that like we can't do comedy shows unless people are doing work and people are doing journalism. And we

Speaker 2 receive, we're processing all of that like across a huge staff. And we're able to

Speaker 2 juggle all those things and research everything independently.

Speaker 2 And we are relying on other people to do all of this exceptional work in order for us to like, quote, I want to say quote unquote, like break a story in a way that no one's, it just is shareable.

Speaker 2 So it gets shared more and people, it's easier for someone to click on a link that's four minutes long. And usually they only get about 45 seconds.
Yeah. But it is,

Speaker 2 I feel like 45 seconds might be generous, but like,

Speaker 2 you know, it's easier to click on that than your channel 11, like hard-hitting local journalism. Oh, local journalism is

Speaker 2 under siege. Yeah.
Everything is under siege. Woof.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, I think that's the next part of what I want to talk to you about because you're right. There's a symbiosis between journalism and political comedy.

Speaker 1 And that has no greater presence than late night. And yet right now, the media landscape is both ethically and I would say economically pressured.

Speaker 1 You know, in May, CBS canceled the late show with Stephen Colbert.

Speaker 1 And, you know, you said you were shocked, but not surprised.

Speaker 1 because the show was definitely hemorrhaging money. But at the same time, we also know that we've just watched 60 Minutes compromise itself in real time.

Speaker 1 We've seen these firings at CBS under the new regime, and

Speaker 1 the question of how journalism is being made manifest. And then, again, that symbiosis making its way to late night seems to be under some jeopardy.
So, Sam B. Yeah, I mean, what is the future?

Speaker 2 I don't have the, I wish that I had the answer. I feel terrible

Speaker 2 about it. It's really, I find it really,

Speaker 2 I find it frightening. I don't quite know what the answer is.
It feels

Speaker 2 so,

Speaker 2 it's just a huge inflection point. Like, I mean, literally coming, listening to the radio today and this, this all just happened.
Two huge figures at the BBC just had to resign.

Speaker 2 because they are under pressure from shareholders and groups within their organization who have political agendas, who bring like, who bring their brand of like right-wing populism and they want their views reflected in the news.

Speaker 2 And it's just,

Speaker 2 I find it really scary. And I don't really, unfortunately, have the answers.
If I had the answer, I would certainly provide.

Speaker 2 You know, I really do think,

Speaker 2 well, I guess this is a bigger thought that isn't necessarily even,

Speaker 2 it's not even really media-centered, but I do think

Speaker 2 that it behooves anyone who has

Speaker 2 the money and the power and the agency to stand up to Donald Trump and his administration to do it. I think like it's one thing

Speaker 2 to ask

Speaker 2 someone who relies on their job to feed their family in journalism, to put pressure, to put the gears to them. It's very difficult to ask them to stand up and go, well, just quit your job.

Speaker 2 Like people have lives.

Speaker 2 They have to feed, they have to live. They have to feed their families.
They are subject to pressures that

Speaker 2 very wealthy people are not subject to. Like, what is the point of having

Speaker 2 like fuck you money if you never say fuck you with your money?

Speaker 2 Like all the people with fuck you money should be standing up right now and directly saying fuck you across every industry and they are actually not doing that because it appears that no amount of money is fuck you money now for a lot of people and i find that to be exceptionally chilling now is the time for people who are able to be brave to be very brave to create to build a herd around people who don't have the privilege to be quite so brave i think it's i'm getting really heated i honestly could cry talking about this because I did expect our thought leaders and our tech dudes to be braver in this moment.

Speaker 2 And they are weak,

Speaker 2 with certain exceptions.

Speaker 2 They're cowardly and very,

Speaker 2 just seem to have an endless hole in which money is shoveled in. And I'm like, what is enough for you? What is enough? What is

Speaker 2 not, is there no, it's bottomless. Their need for wealth and relevance is seems to be bottomless.
And I do think it's their job. It was their job

Speaker 2 to be a firewall and they're not doing it. So not interested.

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Speaker 1 One of the things you said about bravery to me is it's being willing to stand against what feels like inevitable zeitgeist.

Speaker 1 And, you know, we're watching this play out with the attacks on DEI, DEI, which always begin with race, but you and I both know women are often the strongest recipients of what is construed as DEI, which is simply that we should have policies and procedures and laws that say that you should have equal access to opportunity in this country.

Speaker 1 And in a sort of a smaller space, at the start of 2019, you became the only woman in late night after this wave of cancellations, which very much presaged what we're watching happen right now.

Speaker 1 And we saw shows like Sarah Silverman's I Love You, America, and Robin Thedy's The Rundown, all get cut.

Speaker 1 And at the time, you said, I don't feel good being the last woman standing in this space right now.

Speaker 1 And we're watching the same thing happen. And to your point, we're watching this cowardice, but also this avarice

Speaker 1 reshape what it means, not just to be American, but what it means to be part of civilization, at least Western civilization.

Speaker 1 And I think about what it took for you to keep your ratings up week after week, knowing how few women were left in that space.

Speaker 1 So if these tech bros who are awash in money and completely devoid of cojones are listening to you, what can you tell them about courage?

Speaker 2 I don't know. I just, they're not, and believe me, they heard my voice and stopped listening.
They tune.

Speaker 2 I mean, I just, I don't, I don't really, I think it's an important conversation that I, and I ring this bell all the time. And I know others do and philosophers and, you know,

Speaker 2 more, bigger thinkers than me, but I do

Speaker 2 think that people need to have a real conversation with themselves about what is enough in their life and

Speaker 2 figure out what that point is and then

Speaker 2 start doing good.

Speaker 2 Start imagining the world they want to leave behind. We're supposed to leave behind a world that is better than when we entered it.

Speaker 2 And I don't think that people are getting that. I think that people have forgotten that message.
And we are, I don't think that the everyday person is actually losing track of that at all.

Speaker 2 But all of so many of our industries, and I mean, the media is a perfect example of this, it's just in a period of total contraction where we're just giving all of our power and attention to these gigantic media monopolies now who don't have our best interests at heart.

Speaker 2 And I think people on the ground do kind of understand what's at stake, and they do understand

Speaker 2 how to put goodness back. And they do understand, hopefully, for the most part, how to take care of their neighbors and what is required.
But our

Speaker 2 you know, our leaders are failing us.

Speaker 2 It really says a lot to me.

Speaker 2 I won't say what it was, but I I did go to a fundraiser.

Speaker 2 It was a couple of years ago, actually, and it was a pretty uncomfortable room for me to be in. I didn't fit in.
I don't know why I was there. I think I was like, what is this world? Like, could I,

Speaker 2 do I belong here? And the answer was absolutely not, because it really was about

Speaker 2 environmental justice. It was like a conservation-related organization.
It was like, they do great work. They do great work.
And then they gave an award to someone who is single-handedly responsible

Speaker 2 for doing all the damage that they're trying to unwind. And everybody's clapping.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, if you just got this motherfucker to do one thing right, we wouldn't be, we wouldn't have to be here because the reason all the logging is happening is because of him.

Speaker 2 And when he makes a big donation to you, it doesn't even touch what he has robbed this world of.

Speaker 2 Anyway, sorry, I'm really on a very vague soapbox here, but

Speaker 1 it's a very strong soapbox. And I think it's an important

Speaker 1 point because

Speaker 1 I once served on a fairly prestigious

Speaker 1 organization's

Speaker 1 advisory committee, and I watched them do something similar. I'm like, this is someone who has set fire to nine of the 10 key rights.
But the fact that they, you know, just

Speaker 1 blew a little bit on the 10th one, you're like, ooh, you're wonderful.

Speaker 1 And I think we've sort of shifted our sense of what we expect because we are so satisfied with the bare minimum that we've forgotten to imagine what's possible.

Speaker 1 And I wonder as a writer and a comedian and a thought leader, which you are,

Speaker 1 how do you think artists, especially comedians, should be processing this very fraught moment? Because I think you're right. We're at this inflection point

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 the reactions we're seeing from

Speaker 1 our putative leaders is

Speaker 2 failing at best.

Speaker 1 And yet people are looking around saying, how can I react? What should I be thinking? Because the public looks to entertainment, to political leaders, to rich people to kind of give signals.

Speaker 1 Like, what signals should we be sending right now beyond bravery and courage?

Speaker 1 How can people be publicly reacting, particularly given what you pointed out, which is that there are real risks to being loud. There are risks to taking a stand.

Speaker 2 I think you have to assess how much risk you can take on because that's that's really hard. That's a difficult assessment.
And then,

Speaker 2 you know, I also, like a very regular player on my show was M Gesson, who I adore. And they said to me, early days, early days, Full Frontal, that you have to decide what your red line is.

Speaker 2 And, you know, and that was first, you know, early days, first Trump administration,

Speaker 2 we were talking about the rise of authoritarianism, actually, so prescient. And

Speaker 2 they said, you have to decide as a human being what your red line is and what you will and will not do. And once you decide what your red line is, you can never cross it.
You can never cross it.

Speaker 2 and I that has been my North Star

Speaker 2 it can be very difficult to to stick to to know yourself it's hard to know yourself I came into the entertainment industry I already knew what a lot of my red lines were because I had lived longer

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 success

Speaker 2 in the entertainment industry came to me later. I was already a fully formed person

Speaker 2 and that just has been the guiding principle for me. I think as an artist, you just have to stand, you just have to drench yourself in the truth.

Speaker 2 Like political comedy is worthless if it's not standing in truth.

Speaker 2 You know, all the love to Greg Gutfeld, but,

Speaker 2 you know, I don't, I, I, I think that political comedy only works and is only funny and only interesting and valuable if it's, if it is true, if it is fact-checked and true.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 that's all I can offer. Like things come up, you know, things come up.
You have to ask yourself, are you meeting the moment with your work?

Speaker 2 Are you well off enough that you can say no to opportunities if they don't match your ethics?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 that's something for you and your God to decide, I guess. But I have my my own ideas about that.

Speaker 1 Well, I appreciate you saying it that way because part of what we're trying to do through the show, through the 10 Steps campaign, is give people

Speaker 1 the ability to assess where we are in this authoritarian takeover, but also what they can do. We call it the 10 Steps to Freedom and Power.

Speaker 1 And I think what you've just laid out is really, for me, a beautiful encapsulation of how I want people to think about it. Pick your red lines.

Speaker 1 Pick the thing that for you is, you you can go so far and no further to, you know, invoke Lord of the Rings. But you've got to have limits, but that means you also have to have beliefs.

Speaker 1 And, you know, we've watched Trump attack all of our rights. And it started in his first term, but in this second term, he has been joined by much of the Republican Party.

Speaker 1 And while he might be the mouthpiece, we have seen that a party that has the ability to push back or denounce its actions or reject corruption refuse to do so.

Speaker 1 And so I'm thinking about what it means to you to be someone who is willing to be visible and out front, making political comedy, making appearances in places where it might not be to your best interest.

Speaker 1 When someone's thinking about their red line, what do you think about as your North Star? Because I think that's the other part. There's the thing we won't do, the thing we cannot countenance.

Speaker 1 But what are the things for you that are just so sacrosanct? You're going to do it because it needs to be done.

Speaker 2 Oh, well, that's so interesting. I can't, I don't know that I can sum them up perfectly, but I know that there are just issues that I will always care about.

Speaker 2 And you will never convince me that you're, you will never convince me that you have a Christian heart if you don't

Speaker 2 think that refugees belong in your country. Like that for me,

Speaker 2 I'm like, you can tell me what you want about yourself, but your position on refugees tells me everything about who you are as a person. That's a big, that's a big one for me.

Speaker 2 I think voting

Speaker 2 should be mandatory.

Speaker 2 I think,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 1 I really,

Speaker 2 I just,

Speaker 2 I don't, there's just, I come at it from a very, I guess from a, a human rights, from a civil rights perspective.

Speaker 2 I just feel like there's really nothing special about someone, whether they're, if they're rich and powerful, they're still a human being.

Speaker 2 And I try to see the humanity in people and I try to, and I would never waver from that.

Speaker 2 Like, who do I, this is so, this is so morbid, but I often think, well, who do, who would I want to be on my deathbed?

Speaker 2 Do I want to have

Speaker 2 loved everyone as best I could?

Speaker 2 Or do I want to be like

Speaker 2 successful? Like, do I

Speaker 2 want to, I want to have loved. I want to have helped.
That's all. What else is there?

Speaker 1 Okay, so

Speaker 1 that is a perfect answer.

Speaker 2 Oh.

Speaker 1 And it it's shocked by myself.

Speaker 2 No, that is. I mean, look,

Speaker 1 it's a hard thing for people to agree that

Speaker 1 it's okay to want

Speaker 1 things to be good.

Speaker 1 But part of the corollary, and I think it's what you've done so deftly through your comedy, is that you, I think, agree with Roxanne Gay, who wrote a piece back in September where she said that the MAGA right wants the left to always be civil as if there's this perfect polite way to debate humanity.

Speaker 1 But she calls it a fantasy and argues that when people's rights and lives are on the line, we don't have to play nice.

Speaker 1 And what you said is for you, your success is not the money in your bank account, but it's did you do the right thing?

Speaker 1 And I guess as a comedian, And you're someone whose jokes can be sharp, even as they contain a very hilarious truth.

Speaker 1 What do you think about this discourse of where civility plays a role and how much truth and vulnerability we should have as we confront this sort of wave of cruelty that we're in?

Speaker 2 Well, we talked a lot about it on Full Frontal, actually, that civility is not, it's always kind of

Speaker 2 people telling you to just like be quiet and be nice. And, you know, if you're compromising everything

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 the people

Speaker 2 with the power and control are giving up nothing, then I just don't see, I think, that civility feels quite

Speaker 2 worthless. So sometimes you do just need to stand up and scream.
If not,

Speaker 2 you know, whether it has an effect on the outcome or not, at least everyone who feels the same way that you do is achieving some type of catharsis. Maybe it's motivating in some way.

Speaker 2 I think civility is pretty overrated.

Speaker 2 I certainly am not in any way advocating

Speaker 2 that we edge toward political violence. It's just like we're just, that's not what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 I'm talking about discourse.

Speaker 1 You recently did a one woman's show about bodily autonomy called How to Survive Menopause as a 51-year-old who thinks every time I'm a little overheated that maybe it's starting. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 You know, this stage in a woman's life is so under discussed, and it certainly doesn't receive the medical attention it deserves. No.

Speaker 1 And we know that lifestyle and healthcare issues are often top of mind. And while they're explicitly personal, they're also inherently political.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 1 why did you decide to tackle it? And how do you situate this show in the political discussion?

Speaker 2 Well, I. I decided to talk about it because,

Speaker 2 and I'm still doing the show, by the way. I actually have dates coming up.

Speaker 2 And if anyone's looking for tickets, how to survive menopause, samantha b.com.

Speaker 2 It was very, I found it very difficult entering perimenopause, like right around the time the show started in 2016. That's when I first started to kind of like enter perimenopause.

Speaker 2 And literally, no one was talking about it then, actually. Like the word was not spoken out loud.
And this is, we're talking about 2016. We're not talking about 50 years ago.

Speaker 2 I never, I don't think I heard the word perimenopause until two years into it.

Speaker 2 My doctor said the word perimenopause in an appointment and I cried.

Speaker 2 But I wanted to talk about it because

Speaker 2 I feel very passionately

Speaker 2 that

Speaker 2 this audience of people is really unseen, that we're still really tethered to a lot of shame that really echoes the shame we might have felt about our bodies when we first started getting our periods and first started like concealing tampons up our sleeves so nobody would ever know.

Speaker 2 It's just kind of the other, you know, parenthesis

Speaker 2 at the other end of our life. And it's really unfair.
And when it, when I first really realized that I was in it, it was very, I found it very difficult to talk about.

Speaker 2 And I mean, like, I found it impossible to talk about.

Speaker 2 And I don't even really know why. It was just

Speaker 2 nobody talked about it. I felt like it was my fault.
I thought I was maybe going crazy. I didn't understand my symptoms.
I felt really out of control.

Speaker 2 And I also couldn't really talk about it without crying, honestly.

Speaker 2 And so it took a few years.

Speaker 2 We did an episode at the show about it.

Speaker 2 And as I sat with all my brilliant writers and amazing producers, I still couldn't talk about it without crying just a little bit because I wasn't ready to really like go there.

Speaker 2 And I really did think to myself,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 in the present day, if it was that hard for me to talk about, and I will talk about anything,

Speaker 2 it must be so hard. for people

Speaker 2 in everyday life, not for everyone, but like,

Speaker 2 it must be, this is really something. It is very difficult.
We carry a lot of shame and a lot of anxiety around this. And I thought, you know what?

Speaker 2 I'm going to talk about it. I'm just going to go there.
I'm going to go there. I'm going to talk about it.
We're going to have a great time.

Speaker 2 I'm going to tell everybody all the crazy shit that happened to me.

Speaker 2 So maybe they'll like feel a little bit seen, feel a little bit better, feel a little bit, yeah, like I don't have to actually ingest. I don't have to take these supplements.

Speaker 2 I don't necessarily need to buy everything that is offered to me. Maybe I can sit back and think about that for one second.
Like, I need a, yeah, I do need a better doctor.

Speaker 2 Yeah, my doctor is a 34-year-old man who rides a fold-up bike to work. Maybe he doesn't really know what perimenopause is because he only studied it for one hour in his

Speaker 2 in medical school. Like, maybe there's a reason why I should get a doctor who has a lived experience of this, perhaps, so that I can be seen and be cared for in the way that I need.
Like,

Speaker 2 it's very important to me. I enjoy it immensely.
The audience, I think, really enjoys it too. It's like short and sharp and it feels great.
Every time I do it, I feel better in my position.

Speaker 2 My thoughts about it are evolving.

Speaker 2 And so that's where I'm at. I love it.
Awesome. Love it.

Speaker 1 Okay, last thing for you. So I like to ask all of my guests for a piece of actionable advice or a task for the audience.
We have homework here.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 So if you can give people a reason to keep their sense of humor or a way to keep their sense of humor right now, what would that advice be?

Speaker 2 A way to keep their sense of humor right now.

Speaker 2 How do I keep my sense of humor right? Well, if I didn't have my sense of humor, I don't know what I would do. I don't know what I would do.

Speaker 1 Is it something you're watching, someone you're reading, someone you like

Speaker 2 i watch cats launching themselves into christmas trees i will watch any video

Speaker 2 where a cat

Speaker 2 is located in like a where your christmas tree is rustling and then a cat pops out i know that's so

Speaker 2 it's so on brand that i would watch

Speaker 2 like cat videos to soothe myself, but I 100% do. Or baby goats or an octopus using a tool.

Speaker 2 Little animal videos. I mean, they really.

Speaker 1 Animal videos to save the world.

Speaker 2 Samantha B.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much for joining me today on Assembly Required.

Speaker 2 Thank you so, so much.

Speaker 1 As always on Assembly Required, we're here to give you real, actionable tools to face today's biggest challenges. First, be curious.

Speaker 1 If you enjoyed my conversation with Sam Samby, take a listen to her podcast, Choice Words, or visit her website at sambe.com. It's the easiest, best thing you'll do all week.

Speaker 2 Number two, solve problems.

Speaker 1 As of this recording, while ending the government shutdown is still being negotiated, the real harm being done to American families is not up for debate.

Speaker 1 Republicans who control the government have argued that after 15 years and no solutions, the answer is to break what's actually working, the Affordable Care Act.

Speaker 1 We know that the answer is to extend the ACA subsidies to save 24 million families from skyrocketing health care costs or the terrifying prospect of losing their coverage entirely, and to help the rest of us who will see our premiums go up as well.

Speaker 1 The answer is clear.

Speaker 2 Just fix it.

Speaker 1 Regardless of what Congress does, we have to keep up the pressure. This isn't going away, but it can be corrected.

Speaker 1 So please visit 10stepscampaign.org/slash just fixit to help us send a message to Washington and every elected official. Do your jobs.

Speaker 1 And step three, do good.

Speaker 1 Also, as of this recording, the Trump administration and Republicans are still refusing to follow the law and issue SNAP benefits for millions of Americans.

Speaker 1 They've also threatened governors who are trying to fill in the gaps. Beyond this immediate crisis, broader snap cuts will still mean that families are going to struggle to put food on the table.

Speaker 1 So we have to do the work for them. One, ask local businesses if they can help set up a community fridge so that people can donate items to those in need.

Speaker 1 And two, please continue to stay in touch with your local food bank or anti-hunger organizations and learn about ways to get involved.

Speaker 1 Assembly Required continues to grow its audience, but we need your help.

Speaker 1 More and more people are looking for ways ways to understand what's going on, and they want to hear the voices of experts who can give them insights and action items. So tell people about us.

Speaker 1 Be sure to share this episode and subscribe on all your favorite platforms. Boost our visibility by rating the show and leaving a comment.

Speaker 1 You can find us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast.

Speaker 1 And please also check out my sub stack, Assembly Notes, where we dive deep and where I can share more of my thoughts on how we fight back against this authoritarian regime.

Speaker 1 And thank you to the thousands of you who've already signed up for the 10 Steps Campaign at 10stepsCampaign.org.

Speaker 1 We now have a toolkit where you can find concrete examples of the 10 steps to freedom and power.

Speaker 1 We include links to organizations, recommendations for you, regardless of where you are or what you're ready to do. And we're constantly adding new organizations and examples of how to get involved.

Speaker 1 I'd love to hear more about how you're you're processing what's happening around us and what tools or resources would be helpful. If you have a report, a question, or a comment for me, send it in.

Speaker 1 You can start with an email to assemblyrequired at crooked.com or leave us a voicemail and you and your questions and comments might be featured on the pod. Our number is 213-293-9509.

Speaker 1 Well, that wraps up this episode of Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams. Be careful out there and I'll meet you here next week.

Speaker 1 Assembly Required is a crooked media production. Our lead show producer is Lacey Roberts and our associate producer is Farah Safari.
Kirill Polaviev is our video producer.

Speaker 1 This episode was recorded and mixed by Charlotte Landis. Our theme song is by Vasilis Photopoulos.

Speaker 1 Thank you to Matt DeGroat, Kyle Seglund, Tyler Boozer, Ben Hethcote, and Priyanka Muntha for production support. Our executive producers are Katie Long and me, Stacey Abrams.

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