The Trial: Cassie Ventura's Second Day of Testimony

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Speaker 7 Hi, it's Brian Buckmeyer. For a second day, Cassie Ventura was on the stand in the trial of Sean Diddy Cohns.

Speaker 7 For analysis of her testimony, we're going to bring you a show from ABC News Live called Burden of Proof: The Case Against Diddy. The show streams weekdays at 5.30 p.m.
Eastern on ABC News Live.

Speaker 7 You can find it on Disney Plus, Hulu, or on most of your favorite streaming apps. Today, you'll hear me on there with host Eva Pilgrim.
Take a listen.

Speaker 5 Day three of testimony wrapping up in the federal racketeering and sex trafficking case against Sean Diddy Combs.

Speaker 5 Cassie Ventura, Sean Combs' former girlfriend and the prosecution's key witness, was back on the stand for a second day with more explicit testimony.

Speaker 5 She testified more about that now infamous 2016 incident at the hotel, describing the circumstances before, during, and after.

Speaker 5 Cassie saying Combs beat her as she tried to escape a freak off that turned violent. Prosecutors also introducing images they allege showed damage from a vase Combs threw at Cassie during that attack.

Speaker 5 She also testified the drug-fueled sex parties eventually turned into pornography shoots, with Combs setting up video equipment for blackmail recordings. Combs has pleaded not guilty to all charges.

Speaker 5 He faces life in prison if convicted. We have our team of reporters and analysts closely following the case from inside the courtroom.

Speaker 5 Plus, we're also doing a deep dive into some of the most searched topics related to this high-profile trial and a warning that some of Cassie Ventura's testimony may be difficult for viewers to hear.

Speaker 5 We begin, though, with the latest from inside that courtroom. Our chief investigative correspondent, Erin Katurski, is outside the federal courthouse in Lower Manhattan.

Speaker 5 Erin, Cassie Ventura recounted explicit details of these alleged freak-offs and the psychological impact. What more did we learn today?

Speaker 8 Cassie Ventura Eva broke down on the witness stand as she described how her abusive, nearly 11-year relationship with Sean Combs left her drug addicted and psychologically damaged.

Speaker 8 She was made to participate, she said, in hundreds of freak offs, these sexual performances with male prostitutes, while Sean Combs recorded them using the video, she said, as leverage.

Speaker 8 And by the end of their relationship, she said she was suicidal she was in trauma therapy she was having episodes of ptsd and she remembered for the jury just wanting sean combs to understand she wrote down what she thought would be chapters of a book she wanted him to read them to understand the pain he had caused eventually she sued him and revealed today for the first time that they settled the lawsuit for 20 million dollars and what was the jury's reaction to what she was saying today

Speaker 8 The jurors were quite moved. She recalled an instance toward the end of their relationship in 2018 when she alleged that Sean Combs raped her in her own apartment on the floor.

Speaker 8 She said it was quick and he lost the color in his eyes. His eyes went black and she told him no.

Speaker 8 She told him she didn't want to. She said she didn't even know if he heard her.
He just kept going until he finished and then simply left.

Speaker 8 It was the second to last time that she had seen him in the course of their nearly 11-year relationship.

Speaker 8 But the jury's most vivid reaction, Eva, came when they were shown explicit images from some of the videos that Cassie said she was made to record of the freak-offs. There were seven images.

Speaker 8 One juror appeared to move his neck as if taken aback. Another juror raised an eyebrow.
Another appeared to shake a head. Sean Combs wanted to see those images.

Speaker 8 He grabbed a binder that they were contained in, leaned over towards his attorney to flip through them.

Speaker 5 Goodness, the details of all of this trial are very graphic. Combs' family is in this courtroom listening to it all.
Cassie's husband is there in court as well.

Speaker 5 How are the family members reacting to hearing this?

Speaker 8 Alex Fine, Cassie Ventura's husband at one point just looked over at Sean Combs, seemed to glare at him when some of these explicit details come out.

Speaker 8 Other times, he doesn't even seem to acknowledge him in the courtroom, just looks straight at his wife as if to make sure she is okay.

Speaker 8 And notably today, Eva, after such graphic testimony from Cassie Ventura about decades worth of sexual activity,

Speaker 8 Sean Combs' daughters were not here. There were fewer members of the Combs family here to support him.

Speaker 8 He interacted with them, mouths, I love you, makes the same gestures he's made for the last couple of days, but some of this testimony clearly has been too much, especially for Combs' daughters.

Speaker 5 One of the other things we heard Cassie tell the jury was about her brief relationship with hip-hop star Kid Cuddy. What did she say about that?

Speaker 8 This is

Speaker 8 an establishment of one of the acts of the racketeering conspiracy that prosecutors have alleged.

Speaker 8 It was 2011, and Cassie Ventura said she and Sean Combs were not in a good place, so she briefly began dating Kid Cuddy and said that at one point Sean Combs found out after they had a freak off because he saw her phone, saw some emails that she had written about Kid Cuddy and he became enraged about it and threatened at one point to blow up his car and Cassie Ventura recalled Combs telling her that he wanted Kid Cuddy's friends to be there to watch the car blow up and one of the racketeering conspiracy acts that Sean Combs is accused of is arson.

Speaker 5 And we have to note here that Sean Combs' lawyers say that he had nothing to do with that car bombing. Erin Katurski there at the courthouse for us.
Thank you so much for breaking this all down.

Speaker 5 And to continue with this, we bring in our ABC News legal contributor and trial attorney, Brian Buckmeyer. You were also there in the courtroom again today.

Speaker 5 So tell me, what do you think of the prosecution? Are they making the link between what Cassie is saying there on the stand and the charges that Diddy is facing? Absolutely.

Speaker 9 And they're beginning to do so. We're going to start off with that top charge of racketeering and just give you a legal definition.
I'll break it down in simpler terms.

Speaker 9 Racketeering is basically when two or more people conspire to commit criminal acts that in furtherance of that criminal enterprise.

Speaker 9 And so when I'm talking about the links, we hear about the criminal act that's funneled by the freak offs, the rape, the sexual assault, the videotaping, the threats of violence as also threats of humiliations of putting out those videos if Cassie was to say anything.

Speaker 9 And then we kind of think about the criminal enterprise, right? Today we heard about 13 different escorts and dancers that were hired from different states all across the country.

Speaker 9 Those are the people who are participating in the freak offs. And then we heard about some of the damage that comes from them and the harm that follows.

Speaker 9 As well as Cassie, when she took the stand, she pointed to a photo, not this one exactly, but one of that night where they're wearing the same dress and said, after one of these brutal nights, she had a bruising on her right leg.

Speaker 9 And she was able to point out in court where she believed those bruises were. So the defenses definitely have their work cut out for them because the prosecution is making some strong arguments.

Speaker 5 Yeah, and the prosecutors also introduced, we heard

Speaker 5 Aaron just mention it, those explicit images of these freak-offs. Cassie's testifying they happened in multiple states and residences.
What's their strategy here with all this?

Speaker 9 So again, going back to those escorts and dancers, they were from Las Vegas, LA, Miami, New York.

Speaker 9 One of the major reasons why this is a federal case is because you're talking about crossing over state lines, that they themselves went to these different locations or hire these individuals to come to various locations both domestically and internationally to participate in these alleged freak offs and that's where we get a lot of the racketeering and the sex trafficking by force fraud or coercion and of course that last charge uh the transportation to engage in prostitution all right so how do you think the defense is going to counter the testimony that we've heard so far So an interesting thing that the defense is doing is they're trying to make a distinction between sex trafficking and domestic violence.

Speaker 9 They're saying that it is domestic violence. Sean Combs has done what Tenny Garrigo said in her opening statements, some indefensible things, but it's not this.
It's not sex trafficking.

Speaker 9 And one of the things that they point at is that infamous video that we all saw, but they're looking at some of the raw footage.

Speaker 9 And they're saying that when Sean Combs did this violent assault of Cassie, and they're not denying it, not denying the injuries, that instead he was doing it to get his cell phone.

Speaker 9 Now, Cassie testified on the stand that she believes that this is her cell phone, but the way the defense is articulating this is there was violence, there was domestic abuse, there might have even been rape, but it was about jealousy, infidelity, and money.

Speaker 9 It wasn't about a criminal enterprise. It wasn't about trafficking.
That's the argument that they're going to make when cross-examination starts tomorrow of Cassie and going forward in this case.

Speaker 5 Brian Buckmeyer, thank you. We'll come back to you in just a bit.

Speaker 5 Cassie Ventura today, again, as we said, detailing that alleged abuse testifying Sean Combs turned the freak off videos into blackmail. Combs denies the federal charges.

Speaker 5 His defense claiming his violent acts are domestic violence, as Brian just said, but not evidence of sex trafficking and racketeering.

Speaker 5 But prosecutors have said the jury will hear a similar story from another alleged victim they're calling Jane.

Speaker 5 Let's bring in Maria Cruz-Melendez, a former federal prosecutor who also served as one of the lead prosecutors in the case against R. Kelly.
Maria, thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 5 Let's get right to this. What's the government trying to establish here with Cassie's testimony?

Speaker 11 Essentially, the government is trying to establish a pattern of abuse.

Speaker 11 And the reason this is important is because at the end of the day, each one of these charges will hinge on whether or not they can show that Sean Combs essentially overcame Cassandra Ventura's will.

Speaker 11 So whether or not there was coercive control that resulted in her staying.

Speaker 11 And at the end of the day, with regard to racketeering, with regard to forced labor, sex trafficking, and even the transportation of prostitution, getting from her mouth exactly what happened to her is key.

Speaker 11 And I think at the end of the day, as previously mentioned, having other individuals who can testify to what they saw as well, and also that this type of conduct happened to other individuals is going to be really important in establishing the pattern of racketeering that the government has alleged here.

Speaker 5 And to that point that you just raised, Cassie testified today that she saw Diddy inflict violence on others. Why does that matter here?

Speaker 11 The reason that's important is because of this distinction that Defense Counsel is trying to make at this point, that this is simply about domestic violence, that it's about what happened between Sean Combs and Cassie Ventura.

Speaker 11 But once you've brought in other victims, once you've brought in the fact that violence may have been perpetrated against staff, against assistants, against other individuals who felt that they also had to assist Combs in the crimes that have been alleged by the government, then you're getting closer to establishing not only an enterprise, but that there's in fact been a pattern of racketeering.

Speaker 5 You brought your case against R. Kelly also for racketeering and sex trafficking.
So you know what it takes to go up against a powerful, wealthy defendant.

Speaker 5 What are the similarities and the differences that you see here?

Speaker 11 Yeah, I think there are a number of similarities. At the end of the day, we have a high-profile defendant.
We have that in both cases.

Speaker 11 We have a situation in which allegations included coercive control, taking taking individuals under their wing, using that as a form of control, using physical abuse, psychological abuse, and other forms.

Speaker 11 During my opening statement in the R. Kelly case, I talked about the Predator's Handbook and using all those types of methods in order to control individuals.

Speaker 11 I think some of the differences, of course, that you see is that in the R. Kelly case, a number of our victims, the majority of our victims, were minors.

Speaker 11 Here you have a situation in which that's not the case and I think that distinction can sometimes make a difference if you need to convince a jury that a successful adult woman was controlled by someone like Sean Combs and that takes us back to this pattern understanding all of the abuse that has been alleged and that Cassie Ventura has been testifying to and how that overcame her will such that she was unable to leave, to say no, and in fact had to do everything that Combs told her to do.

Speaker 5 Maria Cruz Melendez, thank you so much for being with us. Still ahead, time to talk strategy.
How's each side making its case and how might that play with the jury?

Speaker 12 We'll be right back.

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Speaker 5 Welcome back to ABC News Live. We are wrapping up day three of testimony in the Sean Diddy Combs trial.

Speaker 5 For the second day in a row, the prosecution calling Combs' ex-girlfriend, Cassie Ventura, to the stand. Emily Johnson from the U.S.

Speaker 5 Attorney's Office asking Cassie, how frequently did Sean put his hands on you during freak offs? Ventura responding, too frequently, a lot.

Speaker 5 Brian Buckmeyer joins me now again alongside fellow ABC News legal contributor Bernarda Vialona. Bernarda, you used to be a prosecutor.
Brian, you're a defense attorney.

Speaker 5 So I want you both to sort of paint a picture for us of what it would be like for these lawyers who are in this courtroom right now. Bernarda, let's start with you.

Speaker 5 What do you think the prosecutors are wanting the jurors to take away from Cassie's testimony?

Speaker 10 Well, the prosecutors, they're doing the best that they can in terms of getting the emotion out there.

Speaker 10 They want the jury to feel what Cassie felt living in her shoes each of those days that she was part of a freak off, that she was on drugs, that she was drinking alcohol, that she was beating viciously by Puff Daddy Combs.

Speaker 10 So that's what they want because they want that emotional attachment for that jury when they go into deliberations to fight for her and fight for the prosecution to return a guilty verdict.

Speaker 10 But they also want the jury to know that, look, she may have been in this relationship for years, but it's because she was under the manipulation and the control of Sean Combs that she remained in that relationship, not knowing any better that she was an actual victim and that she should have walked away.

Speaker 5 All right, Brian. So as a defense attorney, you're watching this witness on the stand.
What are you looking for?

Speaker 9 So I'm looking to see how she describes events, how she describes her participation in this relationship, describes her

Speaker 9 participation, sorry, in the freak offs. And I'm trying to find the avenues where I can say, yes, you were absolutely abused.
No one's disputing that.

Speaker 9 But the decision to go across state lines, the decision to participate in these freak-offs, you did that because you loved him and you wanted to be with him.

Speaker 9 You understood this relationship, but it was a violent relationship. Why did you go off and do these freak-offs? Why did you go across state lines?

Speaker 9 Because it was a part of the relationship and it wasn't part of control.

Speaker 9 But when you got there, the part of relationship when you went out for dinner, when you went to freak offs, when you went to award ceremonies, he beat you because he's a domestic abuser, but he's not a sex trafficker.

Speaker 9 It's about making a very logical distinction between the two to try to say he's guilty of something, but not what he's being charged of.

Speaker 5 I saw you moving.

Speaker 5 You're shaking your head there. I mean, how do you make the discern from someone who wanted to be there and someone who's abused? I mean, they showed pictures of some of these freak offs today.

Speaker 10 How do you make that clear? Well, they're not just going to make it clear with Cassie because they are going to call other witnesses.

Speaker 10 And more importantly, one of the most important witnesses, this expert that's going to testify about women that have been abused before and why they will decide to stay in a relationship, even though they're being abused by their abuser.

Speaker 10 So, try to explain this type of syndrome. To me, it's like battered wife syndrome, right?

Speaker 10 A sexual assault victim, that it takes a while for a person to be strong enough, one, to realize that they were a victim, two, that they're ready to walk away, and three, that they have the power and they'll be okay if they walk away.

Speaker 10 So you're still going to hear from that witness. But I think more importantly is that when we're talking about things that you and I would normally think, I wouldn't want to do that.

Speaker 10 That wouldn't, I wouldn't agree to that when we're talking about having sex while she's on her menstrual cycle or having sex while she has a sexual UTI or having sex while someone's urinating on her, like it sparks the conscience, shocks the conscience.

Speaker 10 So that's one of the main arguments that the prosecution is going to drive through and drive home to the jury at the end of this case to be like, no one in their right mind will agree to this type of behavior.

Speaker 9 But real quick, and Bernardo, I think, is saying it better, far better than the government is doing, nothing but Bernardo said was about trafficking.

Speaker 9 Everything that Bernardo just talked about was about domestic abuse. And I think the defense can say, yes, all of that is true.
And that's what we call domestic violence, but that's not trafficking.

Speaker 5 Do you think they have to make the distinction there, Bernardo?

Speaker 10 Oh, they absolutely. Absolutely.
I mean, the prosecution is not there yet.

Speaker 10 I think they've made an excellent case for domestic violence. But baby, we are here on federal charges.
So you're going to have to prove the racketeering conspiracy.

Speaker 10 You're going to have to prove the sex trafficking by force, fraud, and coercion. You're going to have to prove the transportation to engage in prostitution.

Speaker 10 And I think right now, and again, this is only what, day three of testimony, they haven't gotten into that racketeering conspiracy. I think that

Speaker 10 in terms of the other two charges, you haven't gotten there beyond a reasonable doubt. This is not a civil lawsuit.
You have a burden, and that burden is beyond a reasonable doubt.

Speaker 10 And you're going to have to meet it with some evidence.

Speaker 5 And we got a lot longer to go.

Speaker 5 Bernardo Violona, Brian Buckmeyer, thank you both for being here with us. Coming up, who is Alex Fine and what happened with Suge Knight?

Speaker 5 Those are some of the most searched questions online about this case. We'll have the answers for you when we come back.

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Speaker 5 Now back to the trial against Sean Diddy Combs, one of the most highly anticipated trials of the year, and web searches show that people have a lot of questions about it. So what do they want to know?

Speaker 5 Our Kelly Carter covers entertainment and pop culture for us. She is here to break it all down for us.

Speaker 5 All right, Kelly, so based on our ABC web search data, on the heels of today's testimony, one of the most popular searches tonight, people want to know about Kid Cuddy's relationship with Cassie.

Speaker 5 Walk us through this.

Speaker 13 Yeah, you know what's interesting is before Cassie filed her civil suit back in 2023, We didn't know that she and Kid Cuddy dated.

Speaker 13 What she has told us and what we have learned through that, through that civil suit filing and of course in court today, is that when she was in an on-again, off-again relationship with Sean Combs, she at some point started dating the rapper and actor and

Speaker 13 she ended it because she was afraid. You know,

Speaker 13 she said that, you know, she alleges that Sean threatened violence and had gone as far as to blow up his car.

Speaker 13 And when that civil suit came out, you know, Kid Cuddy's team released a statement and said that is absolutely what happened.

Speaker 13 You know, so this was all kind of new information for I think the people following pop culture about them being, you know, potentially a couple back then.

Speaker 5 And we should note Combs has pleaded not guilty to racketeering conspiracy, including about this alleged car bombing incident.

Speaker 5 Okay, another assert that's trending again today is who is Alex Fine, Cassie's husband? People also want to know about the timeline of their relationship. What do we know about this?

Speaker 13 We know that they met in 2018 in a gym and at some point he started training Sean and then started training Cassie.

Speaker 13 You know, Alex, of course, is from originally from Michigan, former college football player, who then became a celebrity personal trainer, training people like Jennifer Aniston and even Saquon Barkley of the Eagles.

Speaker 13 And so and so he, you know, met Cassie and their relationship seemed to have, you know, taken off because by 2019, they're engaged, married, and having a baby. And they met in 2018.

Speaker 5 Okay, another interesting search. What happened with Suge Knight?

Speaker 13 Yeah, so Suge night of course is one of the co-founders of death row records he currently is serving a 28 year sentence for voluntary manslaughter for a hit and run incident that happened in 2015 and and i think people if they're trying to make the connection between sean and shuge it's that they were both these hip-hop impresarios of competing labels and they have publicly beefed um you know especially during the tupac versus notorious big tupac being shuge knight's artist Notorious B.I.G.

Speaker 13 being Sean Combs' artist.

Speaker 5 Another search for saying, where and who are Cassie's parents?

Speaker 13 Yeah, that's interesting, right? So we know that because she said in an interview, I think back in like 2008, that her parents, her mom, I believe, is an Army brat and dad is a Navy brat.

Speaker 13 And while we don't really know much about where they are right now, we know that she's from Connecticut and we have seen her mom, you know, because when she hard launched, as the kids say on Instagram, her relationship with Alex Fine, it was in a photo with her mother.

Speaker 13 I thought that was interesting. You know, when she announced to the world that she was in a new relationship, her mother was also in that picture.

Speaker 13 And then, of course, her mom came up in the courtroom today when she said that she didn't want to be truthful with her mom about what was going on.

Speaker 5 All right, who needs Google when you have Kelly Carter? Kelly, thank you so much for being with us.

Speaker 13 Of course, thank you.

Speaker 5 And thank you for joining us. We'll be back with new episodes every day of the trial.
The show streams right here on ABC News Live, Disney Plus, and Hulu weekdays at 5:30 p.m. Eastern.

Speaker 5 For even more on the Diddy Trial, make sure to follow our podcast, Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy, hosted by our very own Brian Buckmeyer on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

Speaker 5 I'm Evan Pilgrim in New York. Have a good rest of your day.

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