The Trial: Cassie Ventura Takes the Stand

Hey, it's Brian.

Today on Bad Rap, we've got something a little different.

A dispatch from my colleagues over at ABC News Live and their show, Burden of Proof: The Case Against Diddy.

I think you're really going to like it.

It's more great analysis and insight on the latest in the Sean Diddy Combs trial.

Burden of Proof: The Case Against Diddy streams weekdays at 5:30 p.m.

Eastern on ABC News Live.

Find it on Disney Plus, Hulu, or on on most of your favorite streaming apps.

Today, you'll hear me on there with host Eva Pilgrim.

Take a listen.

Good evening, I'm Eva Pilgrim.

Thanks for streaming with us.

It's day two of testimony in the Sean Diddy Combs trial and the prosecution's star witness, his ex-girlfriend Cassie Ventura, taking the stand.

The disturbing video of Diddy and Cassie in an LA hotel hallway, one of the sparks that really ignited this case.

Today, for the first time in six years, Cassie coming face to face with Diddy, telling the jury in graphic detail about what they say is the darker side of the rap mogul over the span of their 10-year relationship.

Cassie admitting she was young and initially wanted to make him happy by fulfilling his sexual desires, but quickly became reluctant.

Ventura says, the freak-offs took up so much of her time, it felt like a full-time job.

When she didn't cater to Combs's desires, he became violent and abusive, bashing and stomping her head at times.

In the courtroom, hearing the explicit details of these sexual escapades, Combs's mother and children back for a second day in a row.

Prosecutors argue Combs used power and fame to lead a criminal enterprise for two decades to allegedly abuse, threaten, and force women into drug-fueled sex marathons that lasted for days.

He strongly denies all of these allegations.

If convicted, Combs could face life in prison, a stark contrast to the life of luxury he's known for.

He has pleaded not guilty to all charges.

We'll take you inside the courtroom in just a moment for the emotional testimony.

And we'll also take a closer look at Cassie Ventura, the singer and now star witness on the stand.

Let's go to Erin Katerski.

He was inside the courtroom for all of it, and he joins me now from Lower Manhattan.

Erin, this was the first time that Cassie Ventura and her ex Sean Combs have seen each other since 2018.

What was that moment like in the courtroom?

When she walked into the room, Sean Combs appeared to look at her, but she, Eva, did not seem to look at him.

And during her testimony, I'm not sure she really made eye contact with Sean Combs.

She turned occasionally to her husband, Alex Fine, who was seated in the courtroom.

She had other members of her family, her attorney there in support, but she recounted such graphic detail, too graphic for us to discuss here now, in such soft-spoken, matter-of-fact tones, describing degrading sexual activity that she said Sean Combs forced her into, starting when she was 22 years old, and as she called herself, naive, too naive, she said, to really understand what was going on or understand the power dynamics in the relationship.

Because she said, if it turned him on, that's what they did.

Her preferences weren't at all considered.

And she said she was passed around and objectified by men and with other men she didn't want to be having sex with on Sean Combs' whim, describing how he wanted to set up recording equipment to record these freak offs.

She said it made me feel insane.

She said it was humiliating and disgusting.

Erin, Cassie shared that she didn't have a whole lot of sexual experience before she met Diddy.

She was only 19 when she met them.

There's a nearly two decades age difference between these two.

Talk more about that power dynamic and how their relationship changed over time.

Well, she was 19 and a young singer and Combs signed her to a 10 album deal with Bad Boy Records, so a long-term deal, and she said, Eva, that she only made one album.

Otherwise, the freak offs took up so much of her time that it stifled her music career, but it controlled her financially, she said.

So she felt like her livelihood, her career, her life really depended on Sean Combs and keeping him happy.

Otherwise, she said she feared what might happen.

Now, interestingly, she talked a lot about not wanting him to break up with her.

Now, whether that was because she thought he might get violent or because she would lose some of the life that she had acquired, she didn't really say.

But we know that the defense is expected to argue that, sure, Sean Combs and Cassie had a toxic, violent relationship, but the defense has called her a strong, adult woman who made a voluntary choice.

Aaron, you were in that courtroom.

These details were a lot.

What was the jury's reaction hearing her testimony?

It's really hard to read the jury.

Most of them are pretty stone-faced.

There was one woman who did seem to be following along.

She would occasionally smirk at the mention of baby oil or lubricant, which was used so frequently that, as Ventura described it, the hotel rooms where these freak-offs occurred were left in complete disarray.

There was candle wax and oil everywhere.

But most of the jurors sat stone-faced, listening to what amounts to the humiliating recollection of a decade's worth of a woman's sex life.

Erin, what can we expect to see in court tomorrow?

More of the same.

Cassie Ventura ended her testimony today, taking jurors to a moment they've already seen video of what happened in the Los Angeles Hotel in March of 2016.

The jury had already seen the video, but they saw it again with Cassie narrating it, saying, that's me, pointing to herself on video and telling the jury this was the first time, the first and only time, she tried to escape a freak off before Sean Combs declared it over.

She said she got hit by Combs.

She She had a black eye and she wanted to leave.

But when she tried to, as the jury saw in video, he dragged her back.

Erin Katersky Forrest there at the courthouse.

Erin, thank you so much.

And let's break all of this testimony down and what it means for this case.

With ABC News legal contributor and trial attorney Brian Buchmeyer, you were also in the courtroom.

This testimony, I mean, the details of this testimony, from a legal standpoint,

what stood out to you?

So from a legal standpoint, there are a few quotes I want to look at that I think kind of run the gambit of what we're talking about here.

We have Cassie Venturi here and some of her quotes saying here after the freak off, the room was pretty bad off, the candle wax,

all over the place.

And then she described it as having a pungent smell.

And she brought us into those rooms in a way that made us think no one wants to be in there.

The only way you can be in there is to be compelled.

I think that fed into the government's argument of coercion.

But we also heard something that I think the defense is going to jump on where she talked about that she was insanely jealous.

And we remember from Tenny Garagos, she said that this case was about love, infidelity, jealousy, and money.

And so I think something like this, Sean Cohn professing to be a man of many women and Cassie potentially being jealous and maybe starting some of those fights or participating in the fights, that's something the defense is going to jump on.

And then, of course, this, saying that she's super young and naive, people please her, getting her personality.

I think her testimony really drove home the idea that this was a horrible interaction, that it was a toxic relationship, as Erin is quoting the defense, but also I think there's something that both sides will be able to use from her testimony that she was trafficked as the government is arguing, but also that this could just be a domestic violence case where the defense might be able to argue not these crimes, other crimes he's guilty of, maybe not guilty of trafficking and racketeering.

She also talked at some length about the control that he had over her and the other people on his staff that helped participate in that.

Why do you think that was so important?

All right, so I think the smart thing to do, like, start off is talking about Cassie's age.

She's 38 years old now.

Sean Combs is 55.

The age gap was one thing they touched upon.

The fact that she was his singer and signed onto his label as a singer, and she had done some modeling in the past, and that he had the ability to control whether or not her music got out.

We also saw the testimony about who was in his inner circle.

We saw her talk about bodyguards and chief of staff.

And to Erin's point, she was very matter-of-fact and soft-spoken when she spoke.

But what I saw when she talked about those bodyguards and saw pictures of them, and it's almost like she started to tremble in her voice a little.

You can see a sense of fear as she recounted who the people were, where if she didn't pick up the phone right away, someone would come and find her.

And I think that really colored the idea of this criminal enterprise.

Again, you were in the courtroom today.

What was the jury's reaction hearing all of this?

I think as they continued to watch, you saw some people feverishly taking notes in the back, but I think as the testimony continued in, everyone was really leaning in, listening.

They were somewhat stoic.

I didn't see anyone really like jaw-dropping about some of these allegations.

Of course, you saw some people, as we've seen in the reports, shaking their head as to some of these statements because they were very, very horrible and hard to listen to at times.

At the very beginning of the day, we heard from a male escort that testified that he saw Combs attack Cassie.

What stood out to you about his testimony?

Yeah, and so Xavier Donaldson was a defense attorney who continued the cross-examination and what stood out to me is I think they're still kind of attacking this strategy of attacking the credibility as well as the idea of consent here.

And so from there there are two things.

One, Philip or Daniel Phillip said that he actually had feelings towards Cassie and there might have been again this issue of jealousy that I think the defense tried to hone in on.

But of course the government came back and talked about just the brutality of Sean Combs' interaction with Cassie, the directing of the sexual encounters, who got paid, how they got paid, and then again, just the brutality of the interaction that he saw with them.

Brian Buckmeyer, thank you so much.

We'll come back to you in just a little bit.

Cassie Ventura's testimony today detailing graphic allegations of domestic violence, which she says she experienced while dating Sean Combs, violence that the defense admitted to in opening statements.

To talk more about domestic violence, let's bring in criminal defense attorney and ABC News legal contributor Bernardo Violona, who has handled sex crime cases, and former NYPD sex crimes detective Sarah Mathers, who also notably worked on the Harvey Weinstein investigation.

Thank you both so much for joining with us.

Bernardo, let's start with you.

The defense admitted in opening statements that Combs got violent, but say that doesn't mean he was trafficking people.

So does the violence matter here?

The violence absolutely matters here because it's the violence is what actually quieted Cassie as to not say anything for all those years.

Look how long it took her to finally say something.

And that's a common issue that you see with with domestic violence victims, with sexual assault victims, because it takes them a long time, number one, to realize that they were victimized.

And two, to have the courage to come forward and actually to speak to other people about what happened to them.

But three, look what happens behind closed doors.

You just never know what happens behind closed doors.

So this violence, this, her being scared is all a part of the violence and the crimes that took place here and what the prosecution is moving forward in front of this jury, piece by piece.

Sarah, you've investigated a lot of cases.

How does violence factor into these types of situations?

Well, I think this shows just what Sean Combs was capable of, and it just shows the toxicity that was surrounding Cassie Ventura in her life.

I think being a man of power and having the financial means that he had and having the control over her, I think that all just led into this

whole situation where now

she has the strength to stand up in court and to speak her mind and state the facts and tell everyone what happened.

And

she is strong and she was a victim and now she's able to you know speak up for herself and show the world that she's strong and that she's able to come over this and

excel in her life and move on.

Rernardo, we saw text messages between Cassie and Diddy today.

The defense has already said they think the messages show the consensual nature of their relationship.

I'm curious, though, what's your reaction to those text messages?

So when Cassie was testifying about the text messages, she also put it into context as to why she sent those text messages, what was going on in her mind, that she wanted to satisfy Sean Combs, that she wanted to be a part of this in the sense of that she was scared that if she didn't participate, what would happen to her?

These are also common signs of people that are domestic violence victims, that are sexual assault victims that you see.

We're ultimately going to see later on during the trial, an expert come in and testify as to how and why victims like these react the way they do and are capable to send these texts that may look consensual to other people, but when you break it down mentally, you're able to see that this is a victim, a person that is broken, a person that has been tainted, a person that has been brainwashed as a result of the violence and the control that Sean Combs had over her.

Sarah Cassie didn't come forward until 2023 with her civil suit years after this relationship ended.

In your experience, why do victims wait to come forward?

Well, you know, every victim's story is different and some victims respond to trauma differently.

And with this situation, maybe just out of fear, like I said, he had full control over her, full control of her financially, and just based on her reputation, society,

you know, the emotional aspects, the psychological aspects that she's had to dealt with.

So these things take time.

And she, you know,

she's doing it now, and she should be proud of herself.

And we'll see how this pans out.

Sarah Mathers, Bernarda Vialona, thank you both for being with us.

Still ahead, the prosecution versus the defense, the strategy from both sides when it comes to Cassie's testimony and the portrait they're trying to paint of Sean Diddy Combs.

We'll be right back.

Heather is a nurse practitioner from United Healthcare.

We meet patients wherever they live.

During a house call, she found Jack had an issue.

Jack's blood pressure was dangerously high.

It was 217 over 110.

So they got Jack to the hospital and got him the help he needed.

He had had a stamp placed in his heart preventing a massive heart attack.

If it wasn't for my guardian angels, I wouldn't be here.

Hear more stories like Jack's at unitedhealthcare.com.

Benefits, features, and/or devices vary by plan area limitation and exclusions apply.

Where's that presentation you need for your boss?

Slack?

Email?

Drive?

Lost like you're sanity after wasting hours searching 76 tabs.

Your work tools shouldn't take so much work.

Dropbox Dash finds what you need fast across all your work apps so you can focus on what matters.

Spend less time searching, more time creating.

Learn more at dropbox.com backslash dash.

Welcome back to ABC News Live Day two of testimony in the Sean Diddy Combs trial.

His ex-girlfriend, Cassie Ventura, taking the stand, revealing never before heard details about days-long drug-fueled sexual encounters with prostitutes.

Cassie saying if she refused to participate, Combs became violent and that the freak-offs became a job where there was no space to do anything else but to recover and just try to feel normal again.

Our ABC News legal contributors, Brian Buckmeyer and Bernardo Violona, are back with us.

We're going to have y'all take sides today.

Brian, you're the defense.

Bernardo, you're the prosecution.

Brian, let's start with you.

If you were the defense attorney sitting there hearing all of these details, what are you thinking?

If I'm the defense, I'm actually not that worried because in a case like this, they've already conceded that there is allegations of domestic abuse and violence.

And I'm waiting to see the government make the connection between this is simply a man and a woman, especially a man, because we're hearing the violence from Sean Combs onto Cassie just brutally abusing her, hitting her.

All the things that we said were indefensible, but we're not seeing the connection of was this force used to compel her to go across state lines for trafficking, or was this simply a man who was a Voyager who liked to participate in these sexual escapades that we may not agree with,

but in the course of that, he used violence.

So, I'm looking to try to slice this with a scalpel rather than come in with a hammer and just kind of pick the case apart little by little.

Bernardo, how do you think the prosecution did today?

What are they trying to do here?

So, the prosecution is definitely laying out a picture, a story of the life of Cassie with Sean Combs and especially the violent nature of it, but then the sexual nature of it.

And I think what they're doing is piece by piece, they're laying out all these freak off moments and now they're starting to get to the nitty-gritty part, meaning the most extreme ones, the ones that shock the conscience.

For example, when she mentioned that Sean Combs would have her participate participate in these freak offs when she was on her menstrual cycle.

I think that right there shocks the conscience And the prosecution did a great job in ending with that line of questioning to show the jury that, look, this is not just domestic violence.

This is not just people having consensual sex.

This is the type that no one will want to engage in.

And Brian, the defense has admitted that Combs had non-traditional sexual preferences.

Cassie at one point was on the stand flipping through a binder of escorts that they used.

We can't even say out loud some of the things that occurred on this show.

Do you think the defense can really convince this jury that that Cassie and these other alleged victims wanted this?

No, I don't think so.

I don't think that you can take any of these allegations and say, of course, Cassie wanted to do, and again, we're go and read it because some of the things we're not allowed to repeat, but the brutality, the coercion, the arguments, the slapping, the dehumanization of what allegedly happened to her, I don't think anyone's going to turn around and say, well, that's just abnormal sexual encounters.

But I think the defense can sidestep it and say, yes, that's a crime.

You know what we call that?

Rape, abuse, sexual assault.

Look at the indictment and see if any of those are listed in the indictment.

They're not.

And I think the defense is going to try to sidestep them and say, where's the trafficking?

Where were these allegations used to traffic her?

Where's the criminal enterprise and not just an inner circle or an organization of Sean Combs to help facilitate him getting from point A to point B and doing the things that he likes, even though they're state crimes and not federal crimes.

I think they're going to try to sidestep it and argue somewhere else.

Bernard, I have to ask you about these details.

The prosecutor is literally asking her about every little thing down to what these rooms looked and smelled like after these freak offs, the number of

baby oil bottles used each time.

Why do you think these details matter here?

So Eva, the devil is into details.

When you're determining credibility, when you're determining believability, you want the witness to try to give you as much details as as possible to determine whether that person is telling the truth.

So that's why the prosecution is heavily focusing on these details, because in the end, this case rises and falls

on the testimony of Cassie Ventura.

And in order for the jury to find her credible and believable, they have to look at her testimony, as well as a demeanor, as well as anything that corroborates her testimony, and evaluate all of that to determine in fact whether Sean Combs is guilty of these crimes.

So the devil's in the details, so they have to get it out.

Brian, as a defense attorney, how do you handle a cross with a witness like Cassie without ticking off the jury?

Personally, I don't do it.

I think I would first hire someone like Bernardo Villona and I think that defense is doing something very similar to that.

One of the women attorneys are going to cross-examine Cassie Ventur for a number of reasons.

One, this is a woman making allegations of sexual assault on that of a man.

And two, she is pregnant.

The optics of that would look horrible if someone like me does this.

But I think the other aspect of it, from a technical standpoint, very careful.

Don't raise your voice.

Don't get into an argument.

Be as soft-spoken and careful as her, but be deliberate in your words and trying to say, you said this one day and now you're saying this another day.

So which one is it?

Don't get into a battle with her because you're not going to look good doing so.

Brian Buckmeyer, Bernardo Diallona, thank you both for being with us.

Coming up, who is Cassie Ventura?

A closer look at her time as an emerging star in the spotlight to the star witness in the case against Diddy.

Stay with us.

Return to the old king, man.

Oh, wow.

Emotional.

King of the Hill is back.

They got a Bob's in the airport now.

Oh, that's Boba.

World has changed, Dad.

Bobby wants to bring that new girl over for dinner.

The Vegan?

What the hell am I supposed to feed her?

Can't we just put some grass in a bowl?

From Mike Judge and Greg Daniels.

Ready to make some memories, Dad?

Freaking go.

A Hulu Original Series, King of the Hill.

All episodes now streaming on Hulu.

Welcome back.

Cassie Ventura is the star witness in this case against Sean Diddy Combs.

But before all this, she once shined as an up-and-coming singer who had a recording contract with Diddy's label, Bad Boy Records.

Tonight, a look at Cassie, who she was and is.

For that, we turn to our Kelly Carter, who covers entertainment and pop culture for us.

Kelly, take us back to 2006 when her first album was released and Cassie was just starting to make a name for herself.

Who was Cassie Ventura?

Yeah, you know, let's go back even a little bit further to really put her into context because in 2004, you have Sierra dropping her debut album.

In 2005, Rihanna drops her debut album.

2006, Cassie comes around and drops her debut album.

And really, the landscape was very ripe for R ⁇ B pop princesses to kind of take over.

And she really, it looked as if she was going to fit quite nicely along what we were hearing on the radio and what we were seeing in music videos.

She was discovered by Ryan Leslie, who is a songwriter who has written hits for people like Beyonce, Britney Spears, and of course, Sean Combs.

And it seemed as if all of the ingredients were there for her to fit quite nicely in this scope of the R ⁇ B music.

scene from young women.

So it sounds like she was such a promising young start.

What happened here?

You know, what happened is we kept waiting for more music to come.

You know, when that first album came out, it lived on the top 20 for a couple of weeks, but then it was like...

nothing.

You know, what you've been hearing a lot in today's testimony is that she signed this 10 album deal with Bad Boy Records, but only one album came out.

And for the longest time, people kept waiting to hear more, see more, what was going to become of her, because we saw her on red carpets, right?

And then we had to wait about six years after that debut album from her dropped to get her her on a Nikki Minaj track.

And I thought maybe that was going to, you know, bring some new music from her.

We kept hearing Sean talk about how she was constantly in the studios working with producers, but we really weren't hearing any new music and certainly no new albums.

Cassie, as we have been able to see, is very pregnant right now, about to have her third baby.

What more do we know about her life now?

It seems very quiet, far more quieter than it was when, of course, she was with Sean, because we were seeing, as we keep rolling, a lot lot of red carpet footage a lot of event footage it's a quieter life and it seems very sweet he is someone who often makes a lot of proclamations and social media and Instagram about how he wishes the days were longer so that he could have more time to spend with his sweet wife who is the bestest in his words the bestest mama that that you know it could ever could ever be and they're about to have their third baby um so it's quiet and obviously much more regulated.

Kelly Carter, thank you as always for being with us.

Thank you.

And thank you so much for streaming with us.

We'll be back with new episodes every day of the trial right here on ABC News Live, Disney Plus, and Hulu weekdays at 5.30 p.m.

Eastern.

For even more on the Diddy Trial, make sure to follow our podcast, Bad Rap, The Case Against Diddy, hosted by our very own Brian Buckmeyer on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

I'm Eva Pilgrim in New York.

Have a good rest of your day.

We have a downed spacecraft.

FX's Alien Earth owned new Tuesdays.

This ship collected specimens from other worlds.

Invasive species.

Predatory.

From creator Noah Hawley and executive producer Ridley Scott.

We don't lock them down.

It will be too late.

What did you do?

FX's Alien Earth.

All new Tuesdays on FX and Hulu.

The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus.

Amanda, where did you go the night of Meredith's murder?

Do I need a lawyer right now?

Inspired by the infamous story.

We cannot do our jobs unless you are honest with us.

I swear to God, I'm innocent.

You only thought you knew.

For 15 years, I've been defined by something I didn't do.

Watch the new Hulu original series, The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers.

Terms apply.