RE-RELEASE: Donielle Pt. 1 & Pt. 2

Transcript

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Speaker 79 Hi, betrayal listeners. It's Andrea Gunning.

Speaker 11 We're off this week for Thanksgiving, but we'll be back next week with a brand new story.

Speaker 81 This week, we wanted to re-release a listener favorite, Danielle's story.

Speaker 81 We originally released it in two parts, but for this re-release, we're combining both parts for you so you can hear her full story all at once.

Speaker 84 One thing we love about Danielle's story is the ending, where she finds love again.

Speaker 79 And as you'll hear in the episode, she and her new husband got married at the Thanksgiving table. They said their vows between dinner and dessert, surrounded by all of their family.

Speaker 81 We will be back next week with a brand new episode.

Speaker 79 And in the meantime, for those celebrating happy Thanksgiving, we are so grateful to all of you, our listeners.

Speaker 81 Thank you for everything.

Speaker 79 So, without further ado, here's Danielle's story.

Speaker 90 One of my children saw his dad dressed all in black, and he said that it seemed like his dad was mad at him because he yelled at him to go back to bed.

Speaker 90 And the night before that, he had actually told my oldest child to wrap a sledgehammer that we had that had a really bright yellow handle in black electric tape and find a black raincoat for him to wear.

Speaker 90 And she was like, okay, dad.

Speaker 94 I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, a show about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything.

Speaker 96 One night in 2017, Danielle Oliver Chauvet was awoken by the FBI and state police.

Speaker 2 They were pointing guns at her, demanding to know where her husband was.

Speaker 100 That night, she learned the man she had spent 20 years with was hiding some very big secrets. This is Danielle's first time telling her story.

Speaker 34 She's been reluctant to share what she went through.

Speaker 25 because as you'll hear in part two, her husband has other victims.

Speaker 10 She wants to be respectful of their experience and suffering.

Speaker 17 But this episode isn't about her husband's crimes.

Speaker 10 It's about the 20-year marriage Danielle built with him, the ways he deceived and violated her, and the shocking betrayal that ended it all.

Speaker 34 It's also the story of being totally in the dark about your partner's double life.

Speaker 90 I used to watch lifetime shows.

Speaker 90 And I used to be that person saying, oh, she had to know something.

Speaker 90 So I totally understand why people say things like that.

Speaker 90 But until you are actually walking in those shoes and living with a person who can be completely double-faced, living a completely separate life,

Speaker 90 all I know is the life that he had with me and our kids. That's all I saw.
He was able to do everything else completely separate.

Speaker 33 Danielle grew up in a happy, tight-knit family in California.

Speaker 90 Family is very important to me. We were just over at my parents, all of my siblings, and we all just get along really well.

Speaker 90 There's hardly ever any arguments within our family, and when there is, it's resolved within the day.

Speaker 28 Growing up, Danielle's parents were her role models.

Speaker 106 They had a respectful and happy marriage.

Speaker 109 It was an environment that nurtured her easygoing and trusting nature.

Speaker 90 I had a really good childhood, and so I didn't grow up with a lot of strife or bad things happening in my childhood where that trust was broken down.

Speaker 95 She was raised with a strong sense of faith.

Speaker 110 That's still one of her core values.

Speaker 90 I know some religions can be like really strict. You can do this, you can't do this.

Speaker 90 I wouldn't even say that mine is a religion. It's a relationship with Christ.

Speaker 25 Danielle's one of those rare people who loved high school.

Speaker 105 She was popular and she had a longtime high school boyfriend named Billy.

Speaker 90 When we were teenagers, everybody thought for sure that we were just going to be together forever. You know, we were the thing.

Speaker 93 Right before their senior year of high school, Billy proposed to her and she said yes.

Speaker 112 But then...

Speaker 90 I actually had to move to Hawaii because my dad was working for the military and we moved there.

Speaker 7 She ended up spending her senior year in Hawaii.

Speaker 113 Then she got accepted to college in Illinois.

Speaker 82 She was ready to start a new life there without her high school boyfriend.

Speaker 58 Giving up her first love was hard, but she wanted to prioritize her independence.

Speaker 113 Danielle thrived in college.

Speaker 30 She loved her major, which was art.

Speaker 113 And she also loved going to Bible study on campus.

Speaker 9 That's where she met Chad.

Speaker 90 He was raising his hand and answering the questions like right away, and he was answering the way I would have answered those questions, right in line with the way I believed.

Speaker 90 So I was attracted to that.

Speaker 10 Immediately, she knew Chad was special.

Speaker 90 The first time I met him, I said to my parents when I got back that I was going to marry him. So it was pretty much love at first sight.

Speaker 26 She felt comfortable around Chad.

Speaker 29 It was easy, like they'd known each other for years.

Speaker 90 We actually met at my parents' house and watched a couple movies and I made him lasagna and he changed my oil

Speaker 90 in my car.

Speaker 90 that was our first date from the start danielle was serious about chad when i'm dating someone i'm deciding whether or not this person is the person i want to marry so i was looking for specific things that i wanted in a husband when i was dating him and chad checked all the boxes

Speaker 90 there was lots of things He grew up in a Christian home. He had a good relationship with his parents.
He was business-minded, like he was able to support me.

Speaker 105 Everything about him felt right.

Speaker 120 He was pursuing a degree in finance.

Speaker 10 He had dreams of starting his own business.

Speaker 93 And like her, he also wanted a big family.

Speaker 3 But most of all, she just loved being around him.

Speaker 90 I had fun with him. You know, we would laugh about lots of things.

Speaker 90 I was just attracted to the way I felt around him.

Speaker 93 While they were dating, he went above and beyond to woo her.

Speaker 90 Something about Chad, you have to know, he likes to do everything big.

Speaker 90 It always has to be the best and the grandest and the most showy.

Speaker 33 It's not who she is, but Chad said she deserved the best.

Speaker 10 And it was flattering.

Speaker 93 After about two years of dating, he made a particularly grand gesture.

Speaker 122 He bought her an expensive dress, rented a limousine, and took them to a dinner theater.

Speaker 90 And during that intermission, he excused himself. I thought he was going to use a restroom.

Speaker 90 But he actually, it turns out, had set up beforehand with the theater that he would go on stage and ask me to marry him from the stage. And then he got down on his knee and yeah,

Speaker 90 it was quite the show.

Speaker 101 She said yes.

Speaker 124 He brought her out of her comfort zone, and it felt like a fairy tale.

Speaker 90 I was 100%,

Speaker 90 this is the one that I'm going to spend the rest of my life with.

Speaker 113 Chad was involved in every step of the wedding planning, which Danielle loved.

Speaker 95 And he also wanted to go to pre-marriage counseling to discuss their expectations.

Speaker 90 We discussed who would be the breadwinner in the home, you know, what would be the different roles of both husband and wife as far as who did what in the household.

Speaker 90 It was thoroughly discussed how our marriage would go before we got married. I mean, as far as you can.

Speaker 90 We did know that I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom, so that was talked about.

Speaker 31 Danielle had been managing her own money in her early 20s.

Speaker 19 And although she was good at it, it was a relief to be marrying someone who had expertise in finance.

Speaker 93 It made her feel safe.

Speaker 128 And so they agreed that while she would manage the household, Chad would manage the money.

Speaker 90 And I had full trust in Chad to be able to do that too because of his business degree. He was really good at money, since he went to school for it.
I didn't have any...

Speaker 90 you know, worries about him taking over the finances for the family.

Speaker 84 She was happy with this arrangement.

Speaker 10 She's a do-it-yourself kind of person.

Speaker 109 It's an attitude that's well suited to raising kids and running the household.

Speaker 90 My dishwasher broke down several years ago and I wasn't about to pay somebody because I'm going to figure out how to fix it. I laid all the flooring in the house that I'm in right now.

Speaker 90 I didn't know how to do that, but I looked it up, just went on YouTube and figured it out.

Speaker 90 So I'm that type of person.

Speaker 10 After they got married, the couple decided to move to Chad's hometown in Illinois.

Speaker 114 To call it a small town is an understatement.

Speaker 129 The entire population could fit in one high school football stadium.

Speaker 90 Well, the town we live in, Erie is only 1900. It's small.

Speaker 18 Small, but perfectly suited to the life that they were building, a life that centered around family and community.

Speaker 102 Plus, Chad had grown up there, so he knew nearly everyone in town.

Speaker 96 And everyone seemed to adore him.

Speaker 104 In fact, he'd been the high school valedictorian.

Speaker 9 Once they moved back to Erie, the couple also joined Chad's church, the church he grew up in.

Speaker 90 We were really involved with that church, and his parents went to that church too, and we led a Sunday school together, the couple.

Speaker 93 Their life was falling into place.

Speaker 34 A happy marriage, a strong foundation based on shared values, a community that supported them.

Speaker 29 and a church they felt welcome by.

Speaker 84 And Chad was making progress in his career.

Speaker 10 He began the certification process to become a financial advisor. He wanted to start his own firm.

Speaker 90 He did it all online.

Speaker 90 Like, went through classes online and got his certificate online and all that.

Speaker 93 She was proud of him.

Speaker 30 And for the time being, she kept working too.

Speaker 90 I also worked for the post office for a little bit. But that was not part of our marriage plan.
I didn't want to be a working mom. I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom.

Speaker 90 Pretty much as soon as we got married, we started trying.

Speaker 113 But conceiving their first baby didn't happen as quickly as Danielle hoped.

Speaker 103 The months turned into a year.

Speaker 26 And during that year, Chad made a shocking confession.

Speaker 90 He came home from work and sat me down and said, I need to tell you something really important.

Speaker 90 And

Speaker 90 just said, I had an encounter with a guy in the bathroom. And I think we need to go see somebody and talk to like a counselor about it.
And so I was just like,

Speaker 90 What is going on?

Speaker 90 It just blindsided me. Like, what just happened?

Speaker 113 She asked him point blank if he was gay.

Speaker 105 He said, No, he wasn't.

Speaker 1 She wanted more details about what actually happened, who it was with, and what they did.

Speaker 90 But he never really gave a straight answer. It was just, we need to go talk to somebody, like a counselor about it.

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Speaker 6 But here's the plot twist. It's not your fault.

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Speaker 109 Danielle was shaken and confused about her husband's confession to a one-time flame.

Speaker 29 But at the same time, Chad was doing everything he could to make it right.

Speaker 10 He confessed to it immediately.

Speaker 113 He wanted to get help.

Speaker 109 And most importantly, he was coming to her with sincere remorse.

Speaker 90 He was crying. I was crying.
He was saying he's sorry.

Speaker 125 Chad wanted to get help quickly.

Speaker 113 And so the next day, they did.

Speaker 90 We actually went to the pastor and asked for advice about who we should see as a marriage counselor for us.

Speaker 90 We were given a name of a Christian counselor.

Speaker 1 They had multiple sessions with the counselor, some sessions together as a couple and some separately.

Speaker 113 During a one-on-one meeting, the counselor gave Danielle some advice.

Speaker 90 He advised me, you should

Speaker 90 really think carefully about this marriage. You know, you actually have a right to end this marriage if he's being unfaithful to you.

Speaker 113 The counselor said he'd seen a situation like this before, and he wanted Danielle to know that divorce was an option.

Speaker 90 I understood that. I knew that that's something that it's perfectly fine for me to file for a divorce,

Speaker 90 but I didn't want to. I wanted to make this marriage work.

Speaker 90 I didn't even want the word divorce to come up in our marriage. Like when I made a commitment in our marriage at the wedding ceremony, my promise was a promise.
I didn't take my vows lightly

Speaker 90 in sickness and in health, or richer for poorer. I was going to walk through it with him.

Speaker 90 I wanted to help him resolve whatever it was that he was going through because I loved him and I wanted our marriage to work.

Speaker 93 This one infidelity, it felt small and manageable, especially compared to the years they'd spend together.

Speaker 113 Getting to know each other, studying the Bible together, and building a life.

Speaker 10 She really trusted Chad.

Speaker 90 I felt like I could 100% trust him, even though he had done whatever he had done. I believed him 100%.

Speaker 16 They got a workbook on overcoming infidelity and even did the homework together.

Speaker 30 And they decided to lean on their faith to help them rebuild their relationship.

Speaker 125 Church became an even bigger part of their lives.

Speaker 90 He was an elder in the church. We jointly were leaders for kids' Christian camps.
We were very involved in our faith.

Speaker 106 Their marriage began looking up.

Speaker 12 Especially when a year later, they welcomed their first baby, a baby girl.

Speaker 90 She was an amazing first child,

Speaker 90 super easy baby. Smiling all the time, happy, alert.

Speaker 90 It was a great, great first mom experience.

Speaker 3 Danielle was on top of the world, so filled with love for her first daughter and her young family.

Speaker 113 It confirmed to her that she really did want to be a stay-at-home mom.

Speaker 8 She just felt whole.

Speaker 90 People that we would meet walking through a mall always stop and say, oh, you have the cutest baby. She's the cutest thing I've ever seen and your family is so cute.

Speaker 82 The difficulties she and Chad faced in the first year of marriage started to feel like they were in the rearview mirror.

Speaker 90 At that point, I felt totally in love with him and close to him.

Speaker 90 I felt like I had the perfect life.

Speaker 157 That baby would be the first of six.

Speaker 90 I knew that you could get pregnant even when you were still nursing and before you had your first cycle after pregnancy. Didn't think it was going to happen to me, but it did.

Speaker 113 Soon, Danielle's life became consumed by full-time childcare.

Speaker 10 As their kids got older, she started homeschooling them.

Speaker 104 And she loved every minute of it.

Speaker 90 I wouldn't have it any other way. I know a lot of people are like, wow, six kids, that's a lot.
But, you know, each one of them is unique. It has their own personality.
Each of them is just amazing.

Speaker 90 I love it. I absolutely love it.

Speaker 19 With their growing family came more financial demands.

Speaker 113 But luckily, Chad's business was taking off.

Speaker 105 They even had the ability to upgrade their house.

Speaker 90 He had been starting to look at this property that he really wanted. It was a huge house, way bigger than we needed.

Speaker 90 Enormous, huge living room, huge family room, huge dining room, huge, huge master bedroom, you know, basement that looked like a bowling alley.

Speaker 90 And so he started looking at it and dreaming about it and eventually decided that he was going to try to purchase it.

Speaker 10 Danielle didn't think it was the most practical choice, but the house made him happy.

Speaker 115 After they moved in, he tried to tell her how to run the house, but she stood her ground.

Speaker 10 She trusted him to handle the finances.

Speaker 113 So when it came to the housework, he needed to trust her.

Speaker 90 He wanted me to do things a certain way, like do laundry on a certain day, do the dishes on a certain day, or, you know, do dusting on a certain day.

Speaker 90 And I was like, no, I will do it when it needs to be done. When I see that it needs doing, I'll do it, you know.

Speaker 126 And there were a lot of things that needed dusting.

Speaker 10 Chad was a collector.

Speaker 94 It was a quirk that Danielle accepted.

Speaker 90 Precious moments figurines.

Speaker 90 And he was very much a Hallmark fan, so he had millions of Hallmark ornaments, tons of DVDs.

Speaker 90 I mean, we had two huge walls full of DVDs.

Speaker 17 They loved watching movies as a family.

Speaker 29 And after the kids went to bed, the couple would watch their favorite TV shows.

Speaker 90 Dexter and Breaking Bad.

Speaker 94 Every summer, Danielle, Chad, and their six kids would take family road trips.

Speaker 90 Yellowstone. The Grand Canyon, Mount Rushmore.

Speaker 90 We hit all the tourist places in the United States. We had a lot of really fun times as family.

Speaker 10 On these trips, they'd stay in huge rental homes.

Speaker 95 Chad always wanted the best of the best for the family.

Speaker 90 And they were very nice, very nice rented houses.

Speaker 90 Some of them I was like, okay, guys, don't touch anything.

Speaker 90 You know, like... expensive paintings on the walls and glass decorations.

Speaker 87 One summer, about 15 years into their marriage, the family was on one of their regular road trips.

Speaker 15 And on this trip, their rental home was in a remote area.

Speaker 90 I woke up around

Speaker 90 between the morning.

Speaker 90 I know it was the middle of the night. All the kids were asleep.
And I got up to go to the bathroom or something and

Speaker 90 turned over and he was not in bed with me.

Speaker 90 I looked around the house to see if he was just up somewhere. He was not there.
I went out into the garage area. The car was gone.

Speaker 90 So I started being like,

Speaker 90 where did he go?

Speaker 90 There was no note as far as he left somewhere. He didn't leave a message on my phone.
He was just gone.

Speaker 130 It was the early 2000s.

Speaker 121 So she didn't have a smartphone to look at his location.

Speaker 82 She started to worry that something terrible happened.

Speaker 90 So I started calling around to the hospital around the area.

Speaker 90 Is there any Chad Skipper admitted into this hospital? No, ma'am. Thank you.
Call the next hospital.

Speaker 109 Around 3 a.m., the phone rang.

Speaker 85 It was Chad.

Speaker 90 And he said he was at Walmart. I was like, okay, why are you at Walmart?

Speaker 90 I just thought I would pick up some stuff.

Speaker 90 But, you know, you can kind of tell when somebody's calling from the middle of a store. You can hear the hum of everything.

Speaker 90 There was no shopping cart sounds, no, like cashier beeping and stuff. There was none of that.

Speaker 90 It did not sound like he was in a shopping area.

Speaker 90 I hung up the phone and just was like, how? What is happening? I don't understand. He says he's on Walmart, but it's hours away.
That doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 90 And I just sat in confusion, shaking until he got home.

Speaker 14 When Chad got back, he tried to explain it away.

Speaker 90 He apologized. He said, I'm sorry I didn't tell you where I was going.
You know, everything's fine. You're good.
The kids are good. I'm back.
We're safe.

Speaker 90 He blew it over.

Speaker 80 Whenever they got in a disagreement, this is what he'd tell her.

Speaker 90 His favorite phrase was, don't make a mountain out of a mohill. You know, you just get really emotional about things.
It's okay. You know,

Speaker 90 calm down.

Speaker 90 Always made me feel like I was crazy.

Speaker 7 Abandoning the family family in a rental house in the middle of the night with no good explanation, it just didn't sit right with her.

Speaker 125 So Danielle called her mom.

Speaker 90 She was like, oh wow, yeah, that is really weird. I'm glad you're okay.
You know, I'm glad it all worked out, but that is really weird.

Speaker 105 Danielle was the full-time caretaker for six children under 15.

Speaker 7 She didn't have the energy to fight with her husband.

Speaker 90 I didn't confront him. That's one of my personality quirks is I don't like confrontation.

Speaker 90 I would rather just not talk about it than have a huge argument about something, which is not healthy.

Speaker 90 I think it's much healthier to communicate and work it out.

Speaker 90 But at that point, I just didn't want to deal with it.

Speaker 125 Plus, whenever she did question him, it always ended up coming back on her.

Speaker 90 On the rare occasions, when I would ask questions, I would be shut down and told I was crazy or that is totally not how it went.

Speaker 90 You have blown this out of proportion and you don't remember the actual facts that actually happened. This is how it actually happened.

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Speaker 82 when danielle woke up on a family vacation to find her husband missing he said he was picking up something for work at a walmart in the middle of the night she didn't quite buy the story but she knew chad was busier than ever growing his financial advising firm around the same time he decided to start making passive income by buying rental properties in town.

Speaker 88 It started with one small house, then two, then an apartment building in their hometown.

Speaker 158 He was so busy that he often worked from home at nights.

Speaker 17 He renovated their basement to become his home office.

Speaker 88 He even put in a king-size bed.

Speaker 90 I didn't understand why you would need a bed in your office, but he insisted on having it.

Speaker 90 And his reasons were that if he needed a nap, he could just hop into bed and take a quick nap and then get back to work.

Speaker 29 It bothered her him staying up late like this and sleeping in his office. It also bothered her that he locked the door.

Speaker 10 He said it was a security measure because he had important financial documents in there.

Speaker 90 And in the back of my mind I'm thinking well how do you work at night if you are a financial advisor?

Speaker 90 You can't meet with clients at night. So it was just very confusing to me.
And I do remember one time just crying my eyes out to him saying, I really want you to sleep with me.

Speaker 90 You know, at night I just feel closer to you when we're sleeping together. I feel like we're more like roommates.

Speaker 7 He started coming to bed with her until she fell asleep.

Speaker 121 Then he would slip out and go back to work.

Speaker 34 She would only realize it when she woke up and found him gone.

Speaker 90 One night, I actually got up out of bed.

Speaker 90 and was knocking on his basement door and I heard no answer. And so I actually got in the car and was driving around thinking maybe i would see his car somewhere i never did but

Speaker 124 it got to that point where i was like starting to look to see if i could find anything she never found any proof that her husband was cheating or having an affair she didn't have the energy to start a fight with him he insisted on sleeping in the basement eventually she became resigned to the fact she couldn't change his mind.

Speaker 90 At that point in our marriage, I felt very distant from him. Like I felt like there was a wall up and we never would discuss anything.

Speaker 90 If I ever wanted to talk about anything, it was always, I'm too tired, or can we talk about this tomorrow? Or let's talk about this this weekend, but nothing ever got talked about.

Speaker 10 In this period, where Chad was sleeping in the basement office and they were bickering, Danielle knew that their marriage needed to improve.

Speaker 119 So she sought help for herself.

Speaker 90 I actually went and saw a counselor a couple times on my own because I felt like me having these issues with our marriage was kind of my fault.

Speaker 90 I felt like there was something wrong with me not feeling close to him.

Speaker 90 But I wanted our marriage to be a really good marriage and I didn't feel that it was a good marriage.

Speaker 10 She even suggested they try counseling again as a couple.

Speaker 94 But this time, Chad resisted.

Speaker 90 He refused to go to more than one or two sessions with me. He felt like it was useless or he didn't want to tell somebody else our problems.

Speaker 115 With each passing month, Chad spent more and more time out of the house, renovating the rental properties.

Speaker 103 And some nights, tenants would call with emergencies.

Speaker 90 There would be nights where he would say, oh, I gotta go. There's a sewage leak.
I have to go really quick and fix the sewage leak.

Speaker 37 Despite their rocky few years, she still trusted him.

Speaker 118 She had to.

Speaker 90 You can't have a marriage without trust. It doesn't work.

Speaker 90 You know, if one of the partners say, I'm going to go do this outside the home, you have to trust that they're actually doing what they're saying they're doing.

Speaker 90 Like if I say I'm going to go shopping,

Speaker 90 he has to trust that I'm actually shopping. If he says I'm going to go to, you know, fix the sewerage system in his apartments, I have to trust that he's actually doing that.

Speaker 90 Otherwise, there's no relationship.

Speaker 82 Plus, the rental properties added financial security to their lives.

Speaker 29 She believed that at the end of the day, he was working so hard in order to provide for the family.

Speaker 94 She often overheard him practicing conversations he needed to have for work.

Speaker 90 He had this weird quirk where if he was going to have a conversation with somebody, he would write down the conversation that he was going to have. and then memorize it.
And then

Speaker 90 I would often see him like pacing and doing weird things with his hands and with his mouth.

Speaker 90 I think he was like rehearsing in his mind how the conversation would go and what he would say in response to their responses.

Speaker 108 There was one big meeting in particular Chad was preparing for.

Speaker 85 It was with an older couple that went to their church, a couple that taught Sunday school.

Speaker 8 They had known Chad for nearly his whole life and they were wealthy.

Speaker 10 Chad set up a meeting with them to pitch his financial advising services.

Speaker 90 He was trying really hard to get them to be one of his clients.

Speaker 113 In the end, they decided not to use him.

Speaker 95 He was dejected.

Speaker 86 He'd been counting on their business.

Speaker 113 After that meeting didn't go as planned, he started talking about selling his financial advising business and instead getting into the storage industry.

Speaker 90 There's a little plot of land that would be perfect for storage units. So he had said that, you know, we're going to buy this land over here and I'm going to start building storage units.

Speaker 90 And so we need to set up this LLC.

Speaker 113 He wanted Danielle to sign paperwork to help set up the business.

Speaker 90 If we have you as the president, then it's better for taxes because you're a woman.

Speaker 113 He asked her to go to the bank with him that day to get it set up.

Speaker 36 And there, out in public, she noticed that her husband looked disheveled.

Speaker 90 He was not bathed. He didn't shave.

Speaker 90 I was surprised that he went to the bank in the state that he was in. I just thought, well, he must be so tired.

Speaker 90 He's trying to sell his financial business and he's trying to get these storage units ready. And he's, you know, he's not getting much sleep, so he just must be really stressed out.

Speaker 113 Later that day, one of Danielle's kids came to her. He said that last night he'd seen something strange in the driveway of their house.

Speaker 90 One of my children said that he got up and saw his dad dressed all in black.

Speaker 90 And he said that it seemed like Chad was mad at him because he yelled at him to go back to bed.

Speaker 17 This was alarming because another one of her kids had confessed something bizarre.

Speaker 90 The night before that, he had actually told my oldest child to wrap a sledgehammer that we had that had a really bright yellow handle in black electric tape and find a black raincoat for him.

Speaker 90 And she was like, okay, Dad.

Speaker 114 Immediately, she tried to get in touch with Chad, but he wasn't answering his phone.

Speaker 121 After they went to the bank, he'd left the house to work on a rental property.

Speaker 90 There were several rental places that he owned, that he was either renovating or was currently renting.

Speaker 90 I texted him asking if he could call me as soon as possible. I was starting to feel like, okay, what's going on? I hope he's okay.
I hope he's not in an accident.

Speaker 90 He called shortly after and explained that he had accidentally fallen asleep at the rental and that he was still feeling a little disoriented, but reassured me that he was fine.

Speaker 10 If it sounds like Danielle is reading off of a piece of paper, it's because she is.

Speaker 96 She's reading from a written statement documenting this day.

Speaker 90 Nothing is as it seems. Absolutely nothing.
This is my living nightmare and what I can remember that has happened in the last few days.

Speaker 90 At 4.22 p.m., I texted him asking if he was okay. No response.
I texted again at 5.06 p.m. and his response was, yep, you.

Speaker 90 I told him I was just wondering what happened and he texted, what do you mean?

Speaker 90 And then around 5.30, he called and said he was sorry he didn't see my text and that he must have been in the basement and hadn't gone in right away.

Speaker 9 That night, Chad didn't come home for dinner.

Speaker 108 At the time, she assumed he'd fallen asleep at the rental property again, but she couldn't leave her six small children to go check on him.

Speaker 99 So around 11 p.m., after putting the kids to bed, she went to sleep herself.

Speaker 90 Next thing I heard was banging and breaking glass and men yelling, state police, state police, hands in the air.

Speaker 90 I came out of my bedroom with no glasses on, hands in the air, wondering if they were actually police, because I can't see very very far.

Speaker 90 I can only see about a foot in front of me without it being blurry.

Speaker 90 In my mind, I was thinking, well, either I'm being robbed and they're posing as state police or something's happening and I have no idea why there's state police in my house with a gun pointing at me.

Speaker 30 It was becoming very clear very quickly, this was actually the state police and the FBI.

Speaker 17 There wasn't a mistake.

Speaker 10 They were looking for Chad and they were incredibly serious.

Speaker 90 They asked if anyone else was in the house and I said, yes, just me and the kids, assuming Chad was at the rental.

Speaker 90 My whole mouth got super dry. I could not hardly even talk.

Speaker 90 I asked them if I could go back into the bedroom to get some water because I kept water by my bed. And they were like, no, you can't go anywhere.
You have to stay right here.

Speaker 90 I wasn't even allowed to wake up my kids. They actually went and woke up all of my kids.

Speaker 90 They were asking if there was hiding places in the house, and it threw me for a loop because I'm like,

Speaker 90 I mean, my kids hide in little places when they play hide and seek.

Speaker 94 Then the police asked her about the elderly couple that went to their church, the ones Chad wanted as clients.

Speaker 90 Why are you asking me questions about them? And where is my husband?

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Speaker 96 Danielle Oliver Chauvet woke up in the middle of the night on February 8th, 2017, to find her house swarmed with police and FBI agents.

Speaker 90 Something's happening, and I have no idea why there's state police in my house with a gun pointing at me.

Speaker 90 So I think at that point they were suspecting me. They thought I was involved.

Speaker 39 But a suspect in what?

Speaker 117 Danielle would soon find out.

Speaker 80 Chad's skipper, her husband of nearly 20 years and the father of their six children, hadn't come home that night. He said he'd been renovating one of their rental properties.

Speaker 87 The police were screaming questions at her about where Chad was, asking if she had any hiding places in the house.

Speaker 87 And most confusing of all, the police were asking about an elderly couple who taught Sunday school at their church.

Speaker 90 Why are you asking me questions about them and where is my husband?

Speaker 69 The police wouldn't give her any information about what was happening or why they were at her house, but it was clear that whatever it was, it was urgent.

Speaker 88 The police took her in and began a long interrogation.

Speaker 90 I went into the interrogation room and they started asking me questions. They asked me about this couple and I was thinking, That's a weird question out of the blue.

Speaker 90 Why would you ask me specifically about these people? Yeah, we know them for sure. We've known them for a long time.

Speaker 159 They were also asking questions about the family's finances.

Speaker 126 Questions Danielle just didn't have the answers to.

Speaker 90 I was shaking. I was just so confused.
Like,

Speaker 90 why are you asking me this? All I was worried about was his safety, like if he was still alive. It didn't even dawn on me that it could be what it was.

Speaker 105 After hours of interrogation, the police let Danielle go.

Speaker 169 She went to a friend's house where her kids were waiting for her.

Speaker 87 She repeatedly tried to get in touch with Chad without any reply.

Speaker 97 Then, first thing the next morning, her phone rang.

Speaker 89 It was Chad's father.

Speaker 90 She asked me, do you know where Chad is? And I said, no, do you?

Speaker 90 I said, I don't know anything. If you know anything, just tell me what's going on because I need to know.
what's wrong with my husband and where he is.

Speaker 90 And his dad just said, there was a rumor rumor going around that this couple has been kidnapped. And

Speaker 90 the rumor is also that Chad did it.

Speaker 90 My brain was not registering. It was like, wait, what? No, that's impossible.
This is Chad we're talking about. That rumor's wrong.
And I was thinking,

Speaker 90 there's just no way that it's actually my husband. I know my husband would never do anything like this.
That's not who he is.

Speaker 82 Unbeknownst to anyone, that couple from their church had been missing for three days.

Speaker 99 We're not saying their names because Danielle wants to respect their privacy.

Speaker 83 Before this, they were friends, and Danielle believes that their story is their families to tell, just like her story is hers to tell.

Speaker 82 So for this episode, she's going to call them.

Speaker 90 His victims.

Speaker 90 I had known them since I had met Chad. He had known them since the time he was born because they were part of his church.
They were our Sunday school teachers.

Speaker 90 We would often go over to their house and sometimes we would have like a pool party. Sometimes it would be a Bible study.
So we knew them really well. They were amazing people.

Speaker 1 The day before police raided Danielle's house, a woman had walked into a bank and asked for a cashier's check.

Speaker 17 for $350,000 from her own savings account.

Speaker 170 Before the teller cut the check, the woman slipped her a note.

Speaker 80 She was being held for ransom. Her captor was waiting down the block with her husband in the trunk.

Speaker 10 If she didn't return to the car with the check, her kidnapper said he would kill her husband.

Speaker 9 She needed to walk out of that bank, check in hand.

Speaker 1 So they gave it to her and let her go.

Speaker 170 And as soon as she walked out of the door, the teller called the police.

Speaker 160 That call initiated a statewide search for the kidnapped couple and their captor.

Speaker 130 Immediately, it became the top story on the local news.

Speaker 171 It all started just before 5 p.m. on Wednesday when the sheriff's office received a call from First Trust and Savings Bank in Albany.

Speaker 172 Investigators are working with the FBI, state police, and local agencies. It's a case they say that will shock this community.

Speaker 7 The morning after the raid, Danielle was still in the dark about what was happening.

Speaker 80 She was reeling and desperately trying to get in touch with her husband.

Speaker 120 She didn't want to believe the wild theory that Chad could have kidnapped this elderly couple.

Speaker 82 That was until she saw his picture on the news.

Speaker 90 My whole world got flipped upside down

Speaker 90 at that moment when I saw his picture and the police update and what he had done.

Speaker 172 Developing story in Whiteside County, investigators say they've never seen anything quite like it.

Speaker 174 The man accused of kidnapping a couple at gunpoint from Erie, Illinois is facing four felony charges in connection to the kidnapping.

Speaker 173 Chad Skipper handcuffed the couple to their bed and threatened to shoot them with his gun if they didn't pay him $350,000.

Speaker 90 At that point, all I knew was that he abducted somebody. And that's where I just broke down and started crying my eyes out and

Speaker 90 fell to the floor and was just

Speaker 90 didn't know what to do.

Speaker 83 In that moment, she understood why the police woke her up in the middle of the night.

Speaker 90 When the police knocked on my door asking if I had any hiding areas in the house, I'm sure they were looking for the people that he abducted.

Speaker 90 They were wanting to know if there was a place in that house where they could be hidden.

Speaker 90 As far as they know, I

Speaker 90 know

Speaker 90 where the kidnapped victims are

Speaker 90 because I'm his wife. I mean, most people would assume assume that the wife would know.

Speaker 90 But I had no clue.

Speaker 158 Over the following days and weeks, Danielle discovered the full extent of her husband's horrifying crimes.

Speaker 27 This is what she learned.

Speaker 90 A couple days before the police knocked down my door, he must have gone to their home. I think that's what the sledgehammer was for.
to break into their home.

Speaker 90 He had my daughter duct tape it with black duct tape so that the yellow handle wouldn't be seen in the dark. I heard that he had a voice changer and that he was all dressed in black.

Speaker 90 And I also heard that he broke into their home and sat in their kitchen for several hours before going upstairs to wake them.

Speaker 88 He just sat in their kitchen for hours in the middle of the night.

Speaker 105 Before he finally entered the bedroom where the elderly couple was sleeping,

Speaker 90 he taged the guy

Speaker 90 and threatened his wife and then said, where is your God now? And

Speaker 90 took them from their home forcibly. They didn't even have a chance to get their clothes on.

Speaker 90 And I know that he had told them that it wasn't just him,

Speaker 90 like he threatened them that it was like a group of people who were doing this.

Speaker 160 After the police showed up at the bank, they called in the FBI, who traced the cashier's check and found the couple's names and address.

Speaker 159 When they searched their home, they discovered signs of forced entry, evidence of a deployed taser, and small drops of blood in the bedroom.

Speaker 169 But the house was eerily quiet.

Speaker 158 No one was home.

Speaker 109 In fact, by the time the police were alerted, no one had heard from the couple in three days.

Speaker 90 He had her call around and tell a false story about them deciding to go on vacation. I think he even took their car to the airport.

Speaker 85 While Chad was committing this elaborate crime, Danielle was at home taking care of their kids, going about her business just as usual, completely unaware that her husband had violently kidnapped their family friends and was holding them for ransom.

Speaker 169 But where was Chad?

Speaker 82 And where was he holding the couple?

Speaker 113 Danielle had no idea.

Speaker 126 When the police were finally alerted, they knew time was of the essence.

Speaker 83 They relied on the FBI and state police to use all resources possible to find the missing couple.

Speaker 104 Ransom kidnapping cases like this often end in tragedy, especially considering the money was already exchanged.

Speaker 80 They were running out of time.

Speaker 17 With each passing hour, the search grew increasingly urgent.

Speaker 160 Then, the FBI got a tip about a car matching the description of the one seen leaving the bank with the kidnapped victims, a silver 1990 Chevy Caprice.

Speaker 92 But Danielle didn't know anything about a Chevy Caprice.

Speaker 175 So maybe they had the wrong guy.

Speaker 170 The police tracked the car down, but when they went to pull it over,

Speaker 170 the driver sped up.

Speaker 1 It was all over the local news.

Speaker 171 Around 4:30 a.m., the car crashed here outside Port Byron.

Speaker 173 We tried to effect a stop on that vehicle and they took off at a high rate of speed.

Speaker 34 The police approached the crash crash vehicle and found that the driver was indeed Chad Skipper.

Speaker 98 He was injured but alive and arrested on the spot in connection with the kidnapping.

Speaker 159 Law enforcement was hoping to find the victims with Chad, alive in the trunk of his car, but no one else was with him.

Speaker 89 Instead, the police found clear plastic painter's tarps, a saw, duct tape, and a shovel.

Speaker 101 Now that Chad was arrested, the only priority was finding the missing couple.

Speaker 83 There were still a few places the police hadn't searched.

Speaker 159 Chad's rental properties.

Speaker 101 After he was arrested, Chad gave police the address where he said the couple was being held.

Speaker 90 When he was arrested, I thought that house was still rented. Like I thought people were in the house renting it from us.

Speaker 159 When police showed up, it looked like a construction zone.

Speaker 89 The surfaces were covered in in sawdust and power tools.

Speaker 158 The doors were taken off their hinges.

Speaker 159 And there was a ladder in the middle of the living room.

Speaker 86 But it also looked like someone had been squatting there.

Speaker 170 There was trash everywhere.

Speaker 120 Plates of half-eaten food.

Speaker 117 Electronic wires and cables dangled from the outlets.

Speaker 17 Police searched every room, but no one seemed to be in the house.

Speaker 160 Then they double-checked the bedroom.

Speaker 87 where they took a closer look at a computer monitor laying on the floor.

Speaker 114 It appeared to show a surveillance feed, six live feed images of a windowless room where two figures were lying on a mattress covered by blankets.

Speaker 87 On the wall next to them were hooks and shackles.

Speaker 80 There was a secret room somewhere in this house, and Chad's victims were in there.

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Speaker 83 The night of Chad's arrest, police began searching one of his rental properties for a secret room, a dungeon, where he was holding two people captive.

Speaker 168 From what they could see on the surveillance feed, it was a windowless room somewhere in the house.

Speaker 82 The couple was lying motionless on a mattress.

Speaker 159 It wasn't wasn't clear if they were alive.

Speaker 93 But then one of the FBI agents moved a dresser in the closet and lifted up a piece of carpeting to reveal a locked steel hatch.

Speaker 90 And

Speaker 90 the only entry and exit to that dungeon room was through a steel trap door with a lock on the outside in a closet hidden under a dresser or something.

Speaker 90 He walled it off with cement blocks and soundproofing.

Speaker 90 You would only know it was there if you knew it was there.

Speaker 101 Police used bolt cutters to open the door.

Speaker 169 They found an eight-foot drop into a dark, windowless room, and they went in.

Speaker 159 That's where they discovered the couple, miraculously still alive.

Speaker 130 They had been tortured and chained.

Speaker 105 Chad said he had people watching their kids and grandkids.

Speaker 85 So if they tried to escape or get help, he would kill them.

Speaker 90 They were in that dungeon for a couple days.

Speaker 90 I can't even imagine

Speaker 90 thinking that you're going to die, thinking that your children are going to die, hooked up on this thing,

Speaker 90 your hands up in the air for so many hours that you're basically shaking and can't even stand. and having their kids and grandkids threatened.

Speaker 117 Once he got the money, he was planning to kill them.

Speaker 90 I mean, what's he going to do? Go, oh, I'm going to let you go now. Forgive me, everything's fine.

Speaker 90 How else could it end?

Speaker 159 And judging by the contents of his car, it seemed like he meant it.

Speaker 101 This what-if

Speaker 128 still haunts Danielle.

Speaker 160 Chad was charged with felony home invasion, aggravated kidnapping, and unlawful restraint.

Speaker 167 His bail was set at a million dollars.

Speaker 126 Overnight, Danielle had to reckon with the fact that her husband of nearly two decades and the father of her children was capable of a violent crime.

Speaker 80 In addition to processing that shock, she didn't understand why.

Speaker 11 Was it all for the money?

Speaker 90 I didn't know that we were having financial trouble. I'm a penny pincher.
So I don't know where all the money was going, and I don't know why he needed that.

Speaker 82 To answer that question, Danielle started looking through Chad's basement office. There, she made a series of shocking discoveries.

Speaker 7 First, why he targeted the people he did.

Speaker 90 He had gotten a hold of their finances

Speaker 90 and knew how much they had in the bank

Speaker 90 because he had asked them to be clients of his for his fake financial business.

Speaker 128 His fake financial business.

Speaker 158 She also found out that he was never actually a certified financial advisor or planner.

Speaker 30 So what did he do for a living?

Speaker 105 From what she gathered in his office, he charmed elderly people into letting him be their financial advisor, where he would skim from their accounts for years.

Speaker 41 In fact, after he was arrested, his own parents sued him for stealing over $400,000 while he claimed to serve as their financial advisor.

Speaker 159 But not only did he steal from his own parents, he also stole from his grandmother.

Speaker 90 It was around that same amount, something like $300,000. Maybe he felt like he needed to steal that from his victims in order to repay the money that he had stolen from his grandma.

Speaker 120 He never confessed to this, but it added up for Danielle.

Speaker 166 What never made sense, though, was the construction of the dungeon.

Speaker 90 I found the plans and bills from it in his office.

Speaker 12 Chad had been hiring a contractor to build the dungeon piece by piece over the past two years.

Speaker 90 I can't even imagine how much that cost. It had to be thousands upon thousands.
And I don't think the person who did it ever got paid, honestly.

Speaker 121 The shocking fact that he built a dungeon to hold the kidnapping victims kept the story in the headlines for months.

Speaker 171 In a NewsAid exclusive tonight, investigative reporter Chris Miner shows us a photo of that actual room where it's believed the couple was held against their will.

Speaker 85 Danielle never slept another night in the big house that she and Chad had shared with their kids.

Speaker 90 I did not want the kids to be back in the house knowing that he had done that,

Speaker 90 knowing that he was capable of kidnapping people that he'd known for his whole life.

Speaker 90 I didn't want them back into that house, and I didn't want to live in that house anymore.

Speaker 86 She and her kids moved into her parents' home while she got her bearings.

Speaker 80 For the first few months after Chad's arrest, Danielle's dad would accompany her to the old house to continue excavating Chad's office.

Speaker 86 The police had already collected the evidence they needed and she was left to clean up the rest.

Speaker 90 Every day that we went into his office there was another thing. Oh, he lied about this.
Next day, oh, he lied about that too.

Speaker 90 I remember at one point we were both looking at each other on our way to the house thinking, I wonder wonder what else we're going to find in his office today. What else could there be?

Speaker 159 There was insurance fraud.

Speaker 90 One of the things we found in his office was that he actually claimed that my wedding ring was lost and took insurance out for it.

Speaker 90 So

Speaker 90 even our wedding ring, he lied about.

Speaker 85 There was credit card fraud.

Speaker 90 He had fraudulently signed credit cards in his dad's name. He'd gotten credit cards in my name.
He had forged my name.

Speaker 159 She also found lies about herself.

Speaker 39 Stories she'd never heard before.

Speaker 90 We found several papers that had conversations written down on them that had lies about me as far as like I had to go have a brain surgery in Minnesota or somewhere.

Speaker 90 Just, you know, lies like that in order to gain control or gain sympathy from the people that he was talking to.

Speaker 90 There were just like conversations written down on a piece of paper. Some of them were to credit card companies because it was with credit card stuff.

Speaker 90 Some of it was to different potential clients that he was going to have.

Speaker 131 And some things she discovered were just suspicious.

Speaker 90 Hiking boots that he never wore. A wetsuit that was still wet

Speaker 90 and had a little bit of dirt on the cuff.

Speaker 90 And

Speaker 90 you know, it's like he didn't ever go scuba diving.

Speaker 90 So, why does he have a wetsuit? And where would he have used the wetsuit? In the Mississippi River?

Speaker 90 You know?

Speaker 90 Just strange things that we never found an answer to.

Speaker 85 One of the most haunting things she found in his office was a set of life insurance policies on everyone in their family.

Speaker 83 Policies she never knew existed.

Speaker 90 He had life insurance policies out on me and the kids. I think mine was a million.
And I think my kids were a quarter of a million each.

Speaker 90 It messes with your mind really hard. I never felt like I was threatened or my kids were threatened for our lives.

Speaker 90 It was only after his arrest and when we started going through the stuff in his office that I was like, whoa.

Speaker 90 If I had confronted him about any of this stuff, if I had known about it, I don't think I would be here.

Speaker 10 Danielle didn't want his explanations.

Speaker 82 She cooperated with the police and prosecutors and gave them any evidence they needed.

Speaker 90 One of the things that the police told me is that in all of their cases, they said they have never come across a case that was so cut and dried with the amount of evidence for this guy.

Speaker 90 I was like, wow. And he thought he was so smart.

Speaker 166 She sent him one letter in jail. where she said she would be praying for him, but needed to cut off communication.

Speaker 167 After that, she filed for divorce.

Speaker 11 But letters from Chad never stopped coming.

Speaker 104 Every few weeks, there'd be that distinctive envelope in their mailbox.

Speaker 90 Every time I got a letter from him, my whole body would just shake. I would get sweaty, palms, hard to breathe.
But as soon as I saw that envelope, I'm like,

Speaker 90 not another one.

Speaker 11 She never replied, hoping his letters would finally stop coming.

Speaker 104 But one day, she got a letter that was different from the

Speaker 90 On the outside of the envelope, it was not addressed as him.

Speaker 90 It was addressed as Eloisa May.

Speaker 90 And that threw me because I'm like, well, this is definitely a letter from that jail, but Eloisa May is kind of weird. I don't know an Eloisa May.

Speaker 90 And there was no like return address. It was just the name.

Speaker 90 And so when I opened it and it wasn't in his writing either, I was thinking, okay, that's weird too. So there's something off.
The whole letter is written in this weird southern accent.

Speaker 90 I felt like I was reading Huckleberry Finn.

Speaker 80 This is how the letter began: Howdy there, Missy.

Speaker 90 My name is Eloisa May.

Speaker 90 You don't know me, honey child, but maybe we can remedy that with this here letter.

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Speaker 128 The weight came off, but facial volume loss and dull sagging skin are making you look older.

Speaker 33 While Chad sat in jail, Danielle was trying to rebuild her life.

Speaker 104 That's when she began to get strange letters in the mail.

Speaker 126 The return address just said the name Eloisa May.

Speaker 89 This is what the letters were about.

Speaker 90 It's this fake character who supposedly lives, I think, in Arkansas or something, but she moved to Illinois because her daughter is in Illinois. She had a stroke and so now she's in the hospital.

Speaker 90 And she came across my story and she starts telling me how her husband was an alcoholic. And at one point, he physically abused her.
And so she left him and went to live with his parents.

Speaker 159 Finally, Chad or Eloisa May, got to the point.

Speaker 90 She ended up deciding to get a divorce because she didn't want to deal with his abusive, addictive issues. He ended up killing himself.

Speaker 90 And because of her decision to get a divorce, her daughter and son are having issues in their lives and they take the blame for him dying.

Speaker 90 I felt like it was a threat. If you divorce me, I'm going to kill myself and your kids are going to feel like it was their fault.

Speaker 90 That's the feeling I got from the letter.

Speaker 125 The letters were four, five, six pages long, written in a tiny, neat handwriting that didn't look like Chad's at all.

Speaker 126 She assumed that either he was disguising his handwriting or got someone in the jail to write it for him while he dictated.

Speaker 80 Either way, the character Chad was putting on was so transparently manipulative.

Speaker 90 He didn't directly say, how can you divorce me, but through the character of Eloisa May, was basically saying that she suspects that he made the character southern to try to pull on danielle's heartstrings because her grandmother was from the south a little bit later he goes i feel the good lord telling me to do something and i got a little eager danielle sugar and may i declare darling that is one of the most beautiful and unique names i've ever heard something we have in common, sweetie.

Speaker 85 Chad also used his extensive knowledge of the Bible to try and make Danielle question her decisions.

Speaker 90 He basically has a sermon in there and quotes Bible passages about God hates divorce and gives me examples of different characters in the Bible who wanted to get a divorce, but didn't because it's not the right thing to do.

Speaker 158 The Eloise May letters almost amused her, but they also felt like an insult.

Speaker 30 Did he really think she would fall for this?

Speaker 90 I think he had a very, very low opinion of me, or still does.

Speaker 90 I struggled with that, with my marriage too, because he treated me like a child.

Speaker 82 She kept the Aloise and May letters to remind herself of just how delusional and scheming Chad really was.

Speaker 116 A year after his arrest, Chad pled guilty.

Speaker 80 But before he faced a sentencing hearing for the kidnapping, they had their divorce trial.

Speaker 90 He actually did not have a lawyer to do those proceedings. He was pro se.

Speaker 90 And so he questioned me on the stand,

Speaker 90 which was really, really nerve-wracking.

Speaker 93 Danielle was awarded full custody.

Speaker 166 And shortly after, she attended her ex-husband's sentencing hearing.

Speaker 82 It started with the victim's statements.

Speaker 90 There were no dry eyes in that courtroom.

Speaker 90 They're amazing people.

Speaker 10 The judge was stunned by Chad's Chad's crime, especially the premeditation that had gone into building the dungeon and the torture the victims endured.

Speaker 90 From what the judge said when he sentenced him, he wanted people to know this is not acceptable in society. Like, it's heinous.

Speaker 90 You can't just

Speaker 90 do that type of a crime and get away with it.

Speaker 10 The judge gave Chad the maximum sentence possible.

Speaker 178 Today, Chad Skipper in a packed courtroom listened as he awaited awaited his jail sentence. 60 years, the rest of his life in prison.

Speaker 90 I was thinking he was only going to get 20 years.

Speaker 90 And so when it was 60, I was surprised.

Speaker 126 Surprised, but grateful.

Speaker 160 She sees how dangerous Chad is and doesn't want him anywhere near her or their children ever again.

Speaker 159 She says she forgives him, but forgiveness can include boundaries.

Speaker 90 I have a big, big problem with some of the ways that Christian pastors portray forgiveness. That

Speaker 90 every marriage, 100% of marriages, can be resolved.

Speaker 90 And I was like, that is very, very untrue and very, very dangerous to say.

Speaker 90 If there's an abuse happening, that's not true.

Speaker 80 Danielle decided to stay in that small town town of Erie, Illinois.

Speaker 159 Chad's victims still live there too, and Danielle has seen them around town.

Speaker 90 I have seen them. Yeah,

Speaker 90 I've seen their kids. You know, I smile at them when they see me.
I don't know if they recognize me or not. I don't know

Speaker 90 if they see me when I see them. I really don't know.

Speaker 5 She's even thought about reaching out.

Speaker 85 to apologize for the pain her husband caused and to grieve with them.

Speaker 90 I would love to talk to them directly. I haven't because when I was speaking with my lawyer and also the police even said something about don't reach out.

Speaker 90 And so I've just kind of like took a step back. I don't even know what their thoughts are towards me, if they feel like I was part of it or if they know that I had no idea what was going on.

Speaker 90 One of the reasons why I haven't reached out is because I really don't want to cause them more pain.

Speaker 82 Some people in their community just didn't believe that Danielle was in the dark about her husband's double life.

Speaker 90 When he first was arrested, there were some posts on Facebook about it. People were saying, oh, she knew and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 158 Around town, she's noticed that people don't smile and wave as much as they used to.

Speaker 90 I haven't had anybody approach me and accuse me of anything. It's just, you know, when you're walking around in a small town, sometimes

Speaker 82 you get looks, just kind of a weird side look like I know who you are don't look at me don't interact with me she's had to reckon with blaming herself for not knowing who her husband actually was and what he was really doing all those nights he claimed to be in the basement working

Speaker 90 I couldn't have known he didn't show that part of himself to me

Speaker 90 all I know is the life that he had with me and our kids. That's all I saw.
He was able to do everything else completely separate. I can't blame myself for something that he did without me knowing.

Speaker 131 As part of her healing process, she's learned about people like Chad and the tactics they use.

Speaker 166 Tactics that felt very familiar.

Speaker 90 When I was doing my studies of narcissistic behavior, one of the things that really spoked me was a thing called word salad.

Speaker 90 And I totally was like, yep, that's exactly what it was.

Speaker 90 Just words that twist anything that I said, he would twist it around and jumbled it up like a salad and then shoot it back at me. And my mind would just be like, I don't even know what's going on.

Speaker 82 These kinds of things helped her understand how he had subtly manipulated her for so long.

Speaker 85 But that didn't ease the self-blame or the sense that she couldn't trust anyone around her or even herself.

Speaker 90 If my husband can pull the wool over my ass so easily, and I thought that he was an amazing person,

Speaker 90 Does that mean that this amazing person

Speaker 90 can also pull the wool over my eyes? Like, what are they actually behind closed doors? Are they the person that they are presenting to me as, you know, a loving brother, a loving friend?

Speaker 90 But then when we are not in each other's presence, are they somebody else?

Speaker 90 Like, okay, this pastor seems like he is everything that a pastor should be.

Speaker 90 But now that I've been through what I've been through,

Speaker 90 is he who he says he is?

Speaker 90 Or is this just his presentation of who he says he is?

Speaker 158 For Danielle, trusting the wrong person, building a life with them, left her all alone and a single parent.

Speaker 90 All the weight of the responsibility is now mine.

Speaker 90 Because I know I had six kids and I had to support them now.

Speaker 122 She found work as an online English tutor and she built a business writing and selling knitting patterns.

Speaker 90 My business is called Knitting Nicely, but the Nicely is spelled with a K-N.

Speaker 90 I'm really proud that I have a business that I absolutely love and enjoy.

Speaker 159 After her divorce, she decided that she was done with romantic relationships.

Speaker 90 My whole view of the loving, caring relationship of marriage got trashed.

Speaker 90 Even when I would see couples in church or shopping, holding hands, or I would see a post about somebody celebrating an anniversary,

Speaker 90 it would kind of turn my stomach. It just felt you to me because of what I went through.
You know, having trust in someone and then having that trust completely destroyed.

Speaker 90 I didn't want to go through what I went through again. I didn't want to put my kids through that again.
So for me, I was like, okay, I am going to do this single mom thing and we're going to make it.

Speaker 90 But then.

Speaker 12 But then she saw a post on Facebook from her high school boyfriend Billy, the one who proposed to her 30 years ago.

Speaker 33 They'd since drifted apart and hadn't talked in nearly a decade.

Speaker 86 But in his post, she saw that his fiancé had recently passed away.

Speaker 83 So she reached out to lend support.

Speaker 90 We were just like being there for each other.

Speaker 90 You know, I kind of wanted to uplift him and make him come out of the hole that I felt like he was about to go into. Just to have somebody to talk to, to be able to laugh with.

Speaker 90 But then the conversations got longer, and then we ended up staying up all night talking over Messenger.

Speaker 90 And my daughter was starting to say, who is this that you're talking to all this time? And

Speaker 90 I think she knew before I knew that I was starting to fall in love again.

Speaker 10 Danielle and Billy planned a FaceTime call where they would see each other for the first time in years.

Speaker 90 And as soon as I saw his smiling face, I knew that was that was it. I was gonna pursue that relationship for sure.

Speaker 90 The trust issue was not even an issue in the situation.

Speaker 90 Because I had known him from when I was a teenager, there wasn't that, is he really who he says he is, question.

Speaker 33 So they started dating again.

Speaker 90 Both of us were like, this is weird. How could this actually be happening again? Donnie and and Billy 2.0.

Speaker 86 After a few months of dating again, they got married, surrounded by their families at the Thanksgiving table.

Speaker 90 So we had Thanksgiving dinner, and then between Thanksgiving dinner and dessert is when the wedding happened.

Speaker 90 Yeah, it was really cool. I loved it.
Wouldn't have it any other way.

Speaker 10 We end all of our weekly episodes with the same question.

Speaker 100 Why did you want to tell your story?

Speaker 90 Knowing that you're not alone is so helpful.

Speaker 90 That's huge for people who've gone through stuff like that.

Speaker 90 That was one of the main things that helped me. Knowing that people have actually survived it and are happy again.
That was really huge.

Speaker 90 My main reason for wanting to tell my story is to give people hope that even though you may feel like

Speaker 90 Your world is upside down and it can never become upside up again. There is a light at the tunnel Maybe really tiny and small, might be a little tiny speck, but there is a light.

Speaker 102 If you would like to reach out to the betrayal team or want to tell us your betrayal story, email us at betrayalpod at gmail.com.

Speaker 126 That's betrayalpod at gmail.com.

Speaker 89 We're grateful for your support.

Speaker 82 One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts.

Speaker 5 And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal.

Speaker 110 Five-star reviews go a long way.

Speaker 159 A big thank you to all of our listeners.

Speaker 131 Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.

Speaker 168 The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison.

Speaker 175 Hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning.

Speaker 168 Written and produced by Monique Laborde. Also produced by Ben Fetterman.

Speaker 159 Associate producers are Kristen Melcuri and Caitlin Golden.

Speaker 170 Our iHeart team is Allie Perry and Jessica Kreinchek.

Speaker 126 Audio editing and mixing by Matt Zalvecchio.

Speaker 83 Additional editing support from Nico Aruka.

Speaker 101 Betrayals theme composed by Oliver Baines.

Speaker 80 Music library provided by MIBE Music.

Speaker 5 And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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