EP 12 - Dr. Kerry, Part 1

Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.

Speaker 3 You know that feeling when your alarm goes off and your first thought is, why do I feel so awful?

Speaker 5 It's like being betrayed by your own body.

Speaker 6 But here's the plot twist: it's not your fault.

Speaker 8 Dehydration and brain fog are sabotaging you beneath the surface.

Speaker 12 When I found Early Bird's morning cocktail, I felt the shift immediately.

Speaker 13 It's this blood-orange mimosa drink that you mix the night before and you keep on your nightstand.

Speaker 14 When the alarm goes off, you drink, and it's like flipping flipping a switch.

Speaker 15 Clean energy, no brain fog, no crash.

Speaker 2 I'm in control of my day again.

Speaker 16 Early Bird is clinically engineered to target morning fatigue from all angles.

Speaker 14 There's clean, natural caffeine, mood lifting nootropics, and a supercharged electrolyte blend to combat dehydration.

Speaker 20 This is more than just a morning drink.

Speaker 13 It's a science-backed tool to help you take control of your mornings and own your potential.

Speaker 1 It gives me the energy to show up as the best, most accomplished version of myself.

Speaker 25 Discover how good it feels to rise and grind grind on your own terms.

Speaker 11 Visit clubearlybird.com and use code betrayal for 20% off.

Speaker 27 That's clubearlybird.com.

Speaker 29 It starts like any other night.

Speaker 30 The glass of red, the cozy blanket, then the drop.

Speaker 32 The stains so dark, so stubborn, it might as well have been a crime scene.

Speaker 35 But this isn't your average couch.

Speaker 39 This is Anna Bay, fully washable, unspeakably comfortable, and ready for whatever your life, your kids, or your ex throws ahead it.

Speaker 31 And here's the kicker.

Speaker 34 Starting at just $6.99, you can make sure your sofa isn't part of the problem. Fully washable, stain-resistant, and built to hide even the darkest offenses.

Speaker 40 Right now, get up to 60% off in Black Friday savings because no one should have to live with a stain that won't quit.

Speaker 37 Anna Bay, the only mystery you won't be losing sleep over.

Speaker 38 Shop washable sofas.com today. That's washablesofas.com.

Speaker 43 Did a GLP-1 help you lose weight, but now you're noticing unwanted facial changes?

Speaker 20 The weight came off, but facial volume loss and dull sagging skin are making you look older.

Speaker 45 That's where the next phase of your weight loss journey comes in.

Speaker 46 There's before weight loss, after weight loss, and the after after.

Speaker 46 Help restore and refresh your facial skin and reclaim your natural looking youthful glow.

Speaker 51 To learn more, visit faceafterweightloss.com.

Speaker 52 That's faceafterweightloss.com.

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Speaker 54 One of the other things he did in that first date that was odd is he said to me, I'd been researching widows, and my thought was,

Speaker 54 oh, he saw that about my profile. He's been going out to understand my particular issues.
Now, looking back, I think it means something else, but I didn't know that at the time.

Speaker 20 I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, a show about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything.

Speaker 45 Carrie McAvoy is a clinical psychologist based in Michigan.

Speaker 54 I saw clients in private practice for nearly 20 years.

Speaker 54 What was exciting about working with clients was that I could see really dramatic shifts in a relatively short time when there was a lot of motivation and effort.

Speaker 54 And to me, it felt like a sacred privilege to work with them.

Speaker 62 Even though she studies human behavior for a living, she found herself caught in a web of lies and manipulation.

Speaker 54 Everyone somehow assumes that psychologists are like above human, superhuman. We should know, we should be excellent reads of people.

Speaker 54 Yeah, I'm good reads of people, but when it comes to myself, I'm not always so good because then my personal perceptions get involved. Anyone can fall for something like this.

Speaker 54 You just haven't met the sophisticated enough predator.

Speaker 56 And when Carrie was at her most vulnerable, she met a predator who would derail her own life.

Speaker 10 Carrie grew up on a dairy farm in Michigan.

Speaker 54 I think I had an active herd of 60 cows, and we were expected to be a part of the milking process. So my three sisters and I went to work and started farming along with my dad.

Speaker 65 She was the oldest of her three sisters.

Speaker 54 We were supposed to be good girls.

Speaker 17 And out of the good girls.

Speaker 54 I was known as the best, the goodest, the one that did everything right, the teacher's favorite.

Speaker 63 On the outside, they were an idyllic American farming family.

Speaker 54 But there was abuse and neglect going on in the family.

Speaker 54 There was secrets that we were keeping.

Speaker 56 Carrie and her little sister were being abused by a family member.

Speaker 54 Her and I had shared a room and the abuse was going on in the room and either it would be she was hurt or I was hurt.

Speaker 58 It was a trauma that shaped Carrie's worldview.

Speaker 20 She retreated into herself and her safe space was school.

Speaker 66 She channeled all of her energy into becoming a straight A student.

Speaker 59 When she was 14, she read a magazine article about psychology.

Speaker 54 I thought, that's it. That's what I want to be.
I want to be a psychologist. I really wanted to sort of decode a person.

Speaker 65 She knew it would take years of school to earn a PhD in psychology.

Speaker 66 And that became her singular goal.

Speaker 54 So I did college in three years. I probably could have done it in two and a half years because I was moving so fast and getting credits so fast.

Speaker 54 Between my freshman and sophomore year, I worked up north at a tourist town in northern Michigan, City of Mackinac Island, and that's where I met Brad.

Speaker 59 She hadn't dated much before college.

Speaker 62 High school guys just didn't understand her.

Speaker 48 But Brad seemed different.

Speaker 54 He and I started talking, and sure enough, we just clicked.

Speaker 54 By the end of the night, we were around a bonfire telling ghost stories, and I was really tired, so I laid my head on his knee. He put his hand on my shoulder, and I felt like I came home.

Speaker 54 It was an amazing feeling.

Speaker 51 After that night, they were inseparable.

Speaker 54 He was really loyal. He was the kind of guy, if he told you, I'm going to help you move, which he did do that.
He would tell people, even people he didn't know very well, I'm going to help you move.

Speaker 54 If he woke up that morning with a stomach flu, he would still go to help you move. So you could just count on him.
He was a man of his word.

Speaker 20 When she got into a PhD program in California, Brad went with her.

Speaker 54 Brad had a big belief in me. He's like a cheerleader, champion champion of me.
If I wanted to do something, he supported that.

Speaker 65 And in graduate school, she needed his support.

Speaker 54 I would literally fall into bed at night, almost in tears, because I'd work the whole day, get up, do it again, while you're trying to get ready for exams and have papers written.

Speaker 54 And you have, of course, reading lists that are impossible to get through. It was so hard.
And Brad created space for that. He never once complained about my lack of availability.

Speaker 54 He just was super supportive.

Speaker 8 She earned her PhD in clinical psychology, and she got her first job in the field, working at a psychiatric hospital.

Speaker 54 I got to see the psychopathology class on display. What did a borderline personality look like? What did bipolar disorder? What do the different subtypes of schizophrenia look like?

Speaker 54 What does it look like when someone has a psychotic break?

Speaker 44 She was getting a lot of experience.

Speaker 66 And in the meantime, she and Brad decided to start a family.

Speaker 62 Over the next few years, they had three sons.

Speaker 56 But pregnancy took a toll on her body, one that she was not expecting.

Speaker 54 I had a massive hair shed where I lost most of my hair from that pregnancy. It was a shock.
So here I am weaning my two-year-old and my hair is falling out, which was devastating. Just devastating.

Speaker 54 I mean, we literally evaluate women on the quality of their hair. For me to know this is not changeable.
I'm not ever going to get this back. I'm going to have to face the world like this.

Speaker 54 It took me over 10 years to deal with it.

Speaker 59 Even though she had wigs, the hair loss took away her self-confidence and her sense of self.

Speaker 54 I became suicidal for a while, not actively, but just like, what's the point? You know, I felt trapped by it, struggled to go out into the public.

Speaker 54 I mean, it was bothering me enough that I had literal nightmares over being found out or having people discover this. I just felt terribly exposed.

Speaker 62 But Brad wasn't bothered by it at all.

Speaker 58 He and their three boys became her refuge.

Speaker 54 We got a little old camper up on northern Michigan and sat on the lake every summer. And it was fun.
It was just a really, really good period of life for us. Busy, but really good.

Speaker 56 Carrie built her own practice as a clinical psychologist and Brad worked as a civil engineer.

Speaker 54 The degree that we had this partnership really shined. We agreed on how we spent money.

Speaker 54 We were making good decisions, trying to pay off debt, get rid of my student loan, those types of things, get in a good financial position.

Speaker 66 Their priority was saving for an early retirement.

Speaker 54 Our plan was once the last child's out of the home, he was going to quit working and we were going to focus more on the last part of our lives. I thought we'd have a second honeymoon.

Speaker 54 And so that was our plan.

Speaker 59 When they were both 50, they started working with an architect to design their dream home, the house they'd grow old in.

Speaker 54 And he and I spent an enormous amount of time with an architect designing this really gorgeous farm-style house with even part of it with a metal roof so I could listen to the rain.

Speaker 19 They were about to start construction when Brad got sick.

Speaker 54 Brad started vomiting just unexpectedly.

Speaker 45 At first, they didn't think much of it.

Speaker 54 He kept thinking he knew what it was. You know, he thought he had problems with milk, so he stopped drinking milk.
And then he thought maybe he's gluten-sensitive, so he started watching gluten.

Speaker 25 But the symptoms only got worse.

Speaker 52 So they decided to see a specialist.

Speaker 54 They said that we found a tumor, and I knew the news was bad while we were waiting for the biopsy to come back.

Speaker 56 It was a rare form of stomach cancer.

Speaker 65 Carrie immediately started researching, preparing a list of questions for the doctors.

Speaker 54 It was extremely pessimistic, like less than 5% make it five years.

Speaker 54 So, this is terminal.

Speaker 57 But no one had said this to them yet.

Speaker 22 So, she asked the doctor directly.

Speaker 54 I remember going in and sitting across from him in the desk, and I said, Tell me the truth.

Speaker 54 Did you just tell me last night that Brad was dying?

Speaker 54 And he said, Yes.

Speaker 26 I collapsed.

Speaker 54 And I started weeping.

Speaker 54 And then, you know, we had this really practical talk about what does that mean.

Speaker 54 I said, so if he does chemotherapy, how much time will he gain? He said, he might live 12 months. And I said, if we don't do chemotherapy, how long will he live? And he said, maybe six.

Speaker 54 So we walked out and he said, I'm not doing chemotherapy. It just doesn't make sense.
I don't want to be sicker.

Speaker 54 So we then decided we're going to to make the best of that time that we had left.

Speaker 10 They wanted to go on one last vacation together, just the two of them.

Speaker 66 They went to Jamaica where they hired a driver to take them to the most beautiful beaches on the island.

Speaker 54 The chauffeur took us up on a cliff and let us get out and walk up to the edge. And Brad stood there with me and he said, You know, you could do this, don't you?

Speaker 54 You know, you could travel, live abroad, and start again.

Speaker 20 He wanted her to live life to the fullest after he was gone, to pursue her wildest dreams.

Speaker 56 That vacation in Jamaica would be one of their last good memories together before his cancer progressed.

Speaker 54 I stopped working and just focused on him. And he would say, the taxes are too high.
They're too high. We can't afford the taxes.
He'd like in his stumbly way, he would say that. And it would hit me.

Speaker 54 He's saying, it's taxing me too much. This is costing me too much.

Speaker 54 And then I would look at him and I'd say, if this is Mount Everest, I would carry you up to the top on my back.

Speaker 54 I can do this. I have it in me to do this.

Speaker 27 And he'd say, okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 54 And he'd quiet back down again.

Speaker 59 Five and a half months after the diagnosis, Brad died at home with Carrie by his side.

Speaker 54 A former client of mine sent me a note of a Welsh word that's heareth. I'd never heard of it before.
And it stands for a home that's lost that can never be found again.

Speaker 54 A homesickness.

Speaker 54 A home that you're looking for that you can't find. And that's what it felt like.

Speaker 54 I cried every single day.

Speaker 54 I didn't know if I would survive the pain.

Speaker 54 My chest ached. My heart ached.

Speaker 57 Her youngest son was a senior in high school.

Speaker 62 And that Christmas, they were lost without Brad.

Speaker 54 I didn't know this until we lost him. He was the glue that held us together.

Speaker 54 We had so little energy that Christmas, we basically handed each other the boxes that they came in from whatever company we bought it from.

Speaker 54 We couldn't even wrap it. There's just no energy to do that.

Speaker 56 Before he got sick, the couple had made smart financial decisions to protect their future.

Speaker 54 Between Brad's pension, retirement, as well as the life insurance policy, I was set comfortably for the rest of my life. I would never have to work again.

Speaker 44 But the money was little comfort.

Speaker 20 She would trade it all just to have Brad back.

Speaker 54 How do you find that again in your 50s? And how do you replace this life that you build? I wanted it back. That's what I wanted.
I wanted a life that I had back.

Speaker 59 So, in her grief, Carrie made a snap decision.

Speaker 54 And I'm ashamed of it, honestly, but I wanted out of this pain so bad I started dating really fast, thinking that maybe I could just find someone and put that person in the slot and this would fix all of this.

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Speaker 12 You know that feeling when your alarm goes off and your first thought is why do i feel so awful it's like being betrayed by your own body but here's the plot twist it's not your fault dehydration and brain fog are sabotaging you beneath the surface when i found early bird's morning cocktail i felt the shift immediately it's this blood orange mimosa drink that you mix the night before and you keep on your nightstand when the alarm goes off you drink and it's like flipping a switch clean energy no brain fog no crash i'm in control of my day again early bird is clinically engineered to target morning fatigue from all angles.

Speaker 14 There's clean, natural caffeine, mood-lifting nootropics, and a supercharged electrolyte blend to combat dehydration.

Speaker 20 This is more than just a morning drink.

Speaker 13 It's a science-backed tool to help you take control of your mornings and own your potential.

Speaker 1 It gives me the energy to show up as the best, most accomplished version of myself.

Speaker 25 Discover how good it feels to rise and grind on your own terms.

Speaker 11 Visit clubearlybird.com and use code BETRAYAL for 20% off.

Speaker 27 That's clubearlybird.com.

Speaker 29 It starts like any other night.

Speaker 30 The glass of red, the cozy blanket, then the drop.

Speaker 32 The stain so dark, so stubborn, it might as well have been a crime scene.

Speaker 35 But this isn't your average couch.

Speaker 36 This is Anna Bay.

Speaker 39 Fully washable, unspeakably comfortable, and ready for whatever your life, your kids, or your ex throws at it.

Speaker 31 And here's the kicker.

Speaker 34 Starting at just $6.99, you can make sure your sofa isn't part of the problem. Fully washable, stain-resistant, and built to hide even the darkest offenses.

Speaker 40 Right now, get up to 60% off in Black Friday savings because no one should have to live with a stain that won't quit.

Speaker 37 Anna Bay, the only mystery you won't be losing sleep over.

Speaker 38 Shop washable sofas.com today.

Speaker 31 That's washable sofas.com.

Speaker 43 Did a GLP-1 help you lose weight, but now you're noticing unwanted facial changes?

Speaker 20 The weight came off, but facial volume loss and dull, sagging skin are making you look older.

Speaker 45 That's where the next phase of your weight loss journey comes in.

Speaker 48 There's before weight loss, after weight loss, and the after-after.

Speaker 46 Help restore and refresh your facial skin and reclaim your natural-looking youthful glow.

Speaker 51 To learn more, visit faceafterweightloss.com.

Speaker 52 That's faceafterweightloss.com.

Speaker 62 After Carrie McAvoy's husband passed away, she retired early from her clinical psychology practice.

Speaker 61 Without him, she felt lost and wanted desperately to find love again.

Speaker 54 It was maybe four to five months after Brad passed away I had my first date.

Speaker 44 Her first date was with another widower.

Speaker 60 someone who would understand what she'd been through.

Speaker 54 It was a weird date because we just talked about how painful it was being widowed and how much that person had left a hole in her life. It was sweet.

Speaker 54 I appreciated meeting him, but it was just sort of like, I get your pain, but we're not really a match, but thank you for that.

Speaker 54 I went out with a few other men and then I started taking it more seriously. You know, once I got my feet underneath me and figured out what this was like,

Speaker 44 It was a good distraction.

Speaker 16 Carrie threw herself into a series of first dates.

Speaker 54 And so much so that I was getting exhausted. I thought it would be simple to find somebody.
I also thought it would be easier, that there'd be more compatibility with more people.

Speaker 68 Brad was always her biggest supporter, not just in her career, but emotionally.

Speaker 65 And without him, her self-esteem faltered.

Speaker 54 I'm not a thin woman. I'm highly educated.
I actually went out with somebody from my practice for dinner and she said, you're going to have a hard time time finding love again.

Speaker 54 You're too smart. You're too educated.
And you're too old. And I added in my head, and I'm too fat.

Speaker 56 Dating again was more difficult than she anticipated.

Speaker 66 It was becoming too much.

Speaker 54 I started to become really discouraged. So I decided I needed to take a break and that I was going to close my dating apps and just stop.

Speaker 60 But her dating app subscription had just renewed for another three months and she couldn't get a refund.

Speaker 59 So, she took it as a sign.

Speaker 54 So it was literally within a few days of that that a handsome man's profile passed my preview.

Speaker 58 His name was Caesar.

Speaker 20 In his profile picture, he's standing at the top of the Sears Tower.

Speaker 54 It felt like I was seeing a GQ shoot. He's wearing a knit shirt with slacks.
It's almost like he's missing the coat slung over his shoulder.

Speaker 54 My first thought of Caesar was, he's really good looking, and he had a look on his face like, I can't wait to meet you.

Speaker 58 He even listed his deal breakers right on his profile.

Speaker 54 No tattoos, no piercings besides earrings, no atheists, and no pet owners.

Speaker 54 And he even wrote, after going out with a few dates and finding out there's these big discrepancies, I thought it would be more helpful if I just come out and say these are my deal breakers.

Speaker 54 A little arrogant.

Speaker 54 But on the other hand, at least he was more upfront than those who say, I have a super fit lifestyle and want someone who values that, which is code for, I want a slim woman.

Speaker 22 She was amused and attracted to his profile.

Speaker 1 But ultimately she decided, this is a person who's out of my league.

Speaker 54 I felt like I was a solid six next to this nine. And I just like passed on by.
I didn't swipe left. I just didn't do anything with the profile.

Speaker 54 But the next day, This was one of those apps where it lets you view who viewed your profile and it said he looked.

Speaker 54 And I thought, you know what why not reach out and say something so i just said what a nice profile seems like you and i had some things in common they both lived in the midwest a few hours apart and both had adult children so she asked him

Speaker 54 would you like to see if we have more in common

Speaker 54 and he wrote back and he said yeah that would be nice that's how our connection started.

Speaker 20 They started talking every day.

Speaker 54 After a few weeks, it's going great and it's sweet. He and I both agreed it was time to meet.
We decide that we're going to go out to Lake Michigan for the day and just kind of enjoy the beach.

Speaker 54 I'll pack a picnic for the two of us.

Speaker 44 That Sunday, they met in person for the first time.

Speaker 62 He looked just like his photos.

Speaker 59 Handsome, kind eyes, huge smile.

Speaker 65 She was surprised by his enthusiasm.

Speaker 54 He's a very loud person, very charismatic, dynamic person. The introvert in me was like, that's a lot.
I felt overwhelmed. My first inclination was like, ooh, wow.

Speaker 54 I mean, he's gesturing and his voice is booming. Brad, by the way, was extremely quiet.
Our first date, I had to say, if you don't start talking, this relationship's going to go nowhere.

Speaker 54 So picture the differences between that.

Speaker 58 He was a gentleman.

Speaker 62 He wanted to unload all the picnic supplies she brought.

Speaker 54 He swings something away from me to not let me help. No, no, it's your turn to be taken care of.
It's your turn.

Speaker 54 Okay.

Speaker 54 So I walk down to the edge of the water with him. We find a spot and we sit there and we just start to talk.

Speaker 66 And one of the first things he wanted to talk about was what it was like to be a widow.

Speaker 54 He said, I'd been researching widows and my thought was, oh,

Speaker 54 this is something I would do. I would research widows to understand my partner.

Speaker 54 I thought, oh, he saw that about my profile. He's been going out to understand my particular issues.

Speaker 44 Just like his dating profile suggested, he was direct. He didn't want to waste their time.

Speaker 60 So he said there were a few things she should know right up front.

Speaker 54 I need to let you know that I've been married more than once and I want to do this differently. I want a forever relationship.

Speaker 67 They talked about how and why his earlier marriages failed.

Speaker 22 His explanations weren't very in-depth.

Speaker 58 but they all seemed reasonable enough.

Speaker 54 And then he stopped and he said, I came from a really really rough home. And he began to describe some of the dynamics that was happening in the house.

Speaker 61 He began divulging dark details about his childhood, stories of family secrets and abuse.

Speaker 54 And I'm thinking, this is a first date.

Speaker 54 I wouldn't get into this with another person. This is kind of uncomfortable history.
And I end up thinking, so how much of my history should I be saying? Because he's exposed so much of himself.

Speaker 54 Will he think I'm being secretive if I don't share that back?

Speaker 64 So instead, she turned to the picnic she packed.

Speaker 13 And to her surprise.

Speaker 54 I forgot all the cold items in the refrigerator. So here I have this picnic.
No meat, no tomatoes, just has bread, lettuce, chips, and fruit. You know,

Speaker 54 everything else is missing.

Speaker 68 So much for their picnic lunch.

Speaker 54 Because I was feeling one of those moments like, oh no, I blew this date. And he's like, no, no, this is no big deal.

Speaker 54 And then he suggested at the end, let's go out to eat and see a movie because we were starving by that point.

Speaker 65 She liked that he was flexible.

Speaker 20 He was going with the flow.

Speaker 63 After dinner and a movie, he handed her a gift.

Speaker 58 It was a dozen wild rose blossoms without stems.

Speaker 54 He said, now you can kick them home and dry them and create some potpourri so we have a memory of our first date together.

Speaker 54 So it was just this really romantic, over-the-top sort of experience that was fabulous. And with that, he kissed me on the cheek and said, you know, I hope you sleep well.
It's so nice to meet you.

Speaker 54 And then left.

Speaker 56 They immediately started making plans for another date.

Speaker 54 He was really good at planning things. He took me to Mall America, went through the aquarium.
We did like a little amusement park ride and he took me to one of his favorite restaurants.

Speaker 54 So every weekend felt planned. Another weekend he took me to this national park, the waterfalls, to show me one of his favorite places.
And it just was romantic.

Speaker 56 As the dates went on, it was clear there was an elephant in the room.

Speaker 67 The fact that Carrie didn't work.

Speaker 54 He started like, do you have like financial issues? Are you in trouble? Do you need a loan? Are you all right?

Speaker 54 I said, no, no, I'm okay. Actually, the opposite is true.
I don't need to work. I came into a lot of money when Brad died.

Speaker 57 And then, without thinking, she said the number.

Speaker 54 And the minute I did that, I had this deep shame flood over me. It's like, you've made a really grave error here.
You've divulged something super private.

Speaker 54 Now, you'll never know why this person's in a relationship with you. Is it for the money or is it for you?

Speaker 60 She watched him to see if he'd change, if he'd suddenly become overly affectionate or expect her to start paying for more.

Speaker 63 And he didn't.

Speaker 44 He stayed the same easygoing guy.

Speaker 66 But on some level, she knew she needed to be more cautious.

Speaker 27 Little things started worrying her.

Speaker 54 He wasn't a big caller, so we weren't having constant phone calls. They were rare.
And we might have a fantastic phone call, but then I might not hear from him again. I just felt he was hard to reach.

Speaker 54 Even if I texted him, he wasn't really quick to get back to me.

Speaker 66 They lived a few hours apart, so when she couldn't reach him for a couple days, her mind would race.

Speaker 54 It was bothering me so bad that I reached reached out to a private investigator that I'd hired before, a professional PI. I contacted him and said, I'm dating someone, but I have a question.

Speaker 54 Is he really divorced?

Speaker 11 The PI ran a background check and he found that Cesar was single, living alone.

Speaker 20 The records also pulled up an old DOI and a string of short-lived jobs.

Speaker 13 Other than that, nothing particularly alarming.

Speaker 54 So I'm seeing him shortly after that, and my big conundrum is, do I tell him I did this? Because I just don't like secrets.

Speaker 54 I just hate them I just feel like they fester and ruin relationships for you to have something that you know on somebody else

Speaker 54 and so I said to him I've done a background check on you and I'll never forget he got really still like frozen and I thought oh no this is gonna go really bad and he said so what did you learn and I started listening you've had a lot of jobs you've moved quite a bit and you have a DUI

Speaker 54 and he said yeah I did have a DUI and this is what happened. And yeah, I have made some job changes in trying to find the right job, but I could tell the tension, you could cut it with a knife.

Speaker 54 It was so tense. And then he called me over to sit beside me and he started saying, next time you have these types of doubts, come to me first.

Speaker 54 I started crying and he pugged me and he said, it's going to be okay, but I want you to come to me first.

Speaker 64 She was immediately ashamed that she'd gone behind his back.

Speaker 54 We got through it and I really thought that was sweet and that I was shocked that he wasn't more angry.

Speaker 20 A few weeks later, he asked her to go study.

Speaker 54 That was his word. He asked me in September, can we go study? And I said, yeah, I thought that was really sweet and kind of reminiscent of the past.

Speaker 45 So they both deleted their online dating profiles and started seeing each other exclusively.

Speaker 60 He pushed her to try new things.

Speaker 54 He took me salsa dancing, actually taught me how to salsa dance. And there was a childishness to him, like a playfulness.

Speaker 54 His eyes would sparkle and he'd be so excited when we would do the salsa dancing as I'm trying to struggle with the steps at this big restaurant with everybody learning and they're all twirling around us.

Speaker 54 And he just made me feel like I was the most beautiful woman in the world.

Speaker 20 One weekend, she'd travel to him and the next, he'd travel to her.

Speaker 54 And it started to feel like life in between these dates were really dull. and flat, like I was surviving.
And then when I was with Caesar, it felt like life became colorful and just really rich.

Speaker 59 Carrie started daydreaming about starting fresh and moving somewhere closer to Caesar.

Speaker 56 But her 20-year-old son was still living at home.

Speaker 54 I called my middle son who had been living with me and I said, you know, I'm thinking of moving. What do you think if we were to move? You and I were to move together.

Speaker 54 And he said, Mom, I'm really depressed. I'm not doing well.
It sounds great. Let's move.

Speaker 60 She rented out her place and they made the move.

Speaker 54 Caesar had had this policy, you don't get to see the kids until we're engaged.

Speaker 56 But once she moved closer, they decided to break that rule.

Speaker 10 Their first week in town, Caesar took her and her son out to dinner.

Speaker 54 And then Caesar just became part of our life. You know, he would come over after work and hang out with the two of us, got to know the two of us, and it felt good.
It felt like a new normal.

Speaker 54 Caesar would even invite me up for lunch in the middle of his day. Brad would never have done that.
Which I even thought, wow, he's stopping his day.

Speaker 54 And then he comes over at night, hangs out, watch TV till he falls asleep, and then he heads home. It just really felt great.

Speaker 65 Caesar grew up in Mexico and shared his culture with Carrie.

Speaker 54 Teaching me how to buy tortillas, teaching me even what a carnita is, and how much fat do you want to have in it, and then introducing chichurons that I've never had before.

Speaker 54 Just having this whole new side of things being introduced. It was so exciting.

Speaker 1 Cesar, Carrie, and her son started a tradition of Sunday dinners.

Speaker 54 He would take me out to a little Mexican grocery store, buy carnitas, buy the tortillas. He'd make all the prep, and then we'd have this little buffet of carnitas together.

Speaker 54 We would laugh, and the three of us would watch movies. In one of the most tender scenes, the three of us were on the couch in the basement.
In fact, Caesar made sure I noticed this.

Speaker 54 My son was leaning up against him, and he looked over at me. I just felt like we're family, see? We're a family.
Even my my own son loves him.

Speaker 10 When your alarm goes off in the morning, do you feel energized?

Speaker 53 Or are you tempted by the snooze button again and again?

Speaker 18 If you're dragging yourself out of bed, fighting brain fog and fatigue, I've been there too.

Speaker 17 Then I found Early Birds Morning Cocktail.

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Speaker 6 One drink, and the brain fog clears.

Speaker 14 The fatigue lifts.

Speaker 2 I'm in control of my day again.

Speaker 17 Take back your mornings.

Speaker 11 Visit clubearlybird.com and use code BETRAYAL for 20% off.

Speaker 26 That's clubearlybird.com.

Speaker 29 It starts like any other night.

Speaker 30 The glass of red, the cozy blanket, then the drop.

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Speaker 34 But this isn't your average couch.

Speaker 36 This is Anna Bay.

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Speaker 43 Did a GLP-1 help you lose weight, but now you're noticing unwanted facial changes?

Speaker 20 The weight came off, but facial volume loss and dull sagging skin are making you look older.

Speaker 45 That's where the next phase of your weight loss journey comes in.

Speaker 48 There's before weight loss, after weight loss, and the after-after.

Speaker 46 Help restore and refresh your facial skin and reclaim your natural-looking youthful glow.

Speaker 51 To learn more, visit faceafterweightloss.com.

Speaker 52 That's faceafterweightloss.com.

Speaker 6 You live for plot twists and never take the boring route.

Speaker 24 Sound familiar?

Speaker 50 Then it's time to board a cruise that feels like an adventure novel you can't put down.

Speaker 5 Virgin Voyages is redefining getaways with all-in-voyage pricing, over $1,000 in value.

Speaker 9 Wi-Fi, 20 plus dining spots, group fitness, and entertainment.

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Speaker 19 Escape to the Caribbean, think Grand Cayman, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, with seven-night cruises that let you dig deeper into every destination.

Speaker 9 Or plan ahead for 2025-2026 with new routes to Aruba, St.

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Speaker 6 The twist?

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Speaker 44 After almost a year of dating, Carrie and Caesar planned their first vacation together.

Speaker 54 So we plan a trip over the middle of February to go out to California. And his favorite movie is The Godfather.
And we found out the Coppolas have a winery out there.

Speaker 54 So we make this reservation that we're going to have a dinner at their winery. And I can tell that he's decided it's going to be something extra special.

Speaker 56 On the scenic drive to the winery, Caesar seemed almost nervous.

Speaker 54 Driving up this long dirt road with the trees beside it. And you come up, it's, you know, dusk, and the lights are on the trees, and it's just beautiful.

Speaker 54 And then we're out on the back deck looking up at the moon. And next thing I know, I turn around and he's on one knee with an engagement ring held out.
He said, will you marry me?

Speaker 53 She said yes.

Speaker 22 As she looked closer at the ring, she noticed something was off about it.

Speaker 54 And it was really kind of odd that the ring seemed cheap. And I feel really even bad saying this, but like it's like really cheap.
Like I can tell that it's not real metal.

Speaker 54 It actually started tarnishing my finger. It was green.
It was cheap. And I came out of the bathroom and he happened to be standing there.
He bent low and he goes, I know it's not much.

Speaker 54 I just didn't have much to spend. I didn't want to hold that up and asking you to marry me, but I will buy you a much better one in a few years.

Speaker 11 Ultimately, she didn't really care how much the ring cost.

Speaker 8 She wanted a partnership, like the one she had with Brad.

Speaker 60 And this time around, she wanted to do it differently.

Speaker 56 With her kids grown, she could go on adventures, live life to the fullest.

Speaker 54 I mean, I had this dream that Brad sort of painted for me in Jamaica.

Speaker 55 That's when she got an idea.

Speaker 64 Cesar was a Mexican citizen, so marrying him meant she could apply to be a permanent resident of Mexico if they moved there.

Speaker 54 Really great way to make income last a really long time is to live in a less expensive place. And I thought, I'd already been a landlord, maybe I can do something similar.

Speaker 22 So she approached him with a business plan.

Speaker 54 I said to him, have you ever thought about moving back to Mexico? Or what about vacation rentals?

Speaker 54 Why don't we do that? And I remember Caesar got super silent, like deathly silent. And he paused for a long second and then he said, are you serious?

Speaker 54 You're not making a joke here, are you? I said, no, I'm very serious.

Speaker 54 That would be a dream of mine. I would love to do that.

Speaker 59 They started with a trip to one of Mexico's most popular tourist destinations.

Speaker 54 We visit outside of Merida and then we go to Playa and when we fly into Cancun and drive into Playa, he and I looked at each other and thought this is it. This is where we want to build this company.

Speaker 37 The entire trip they did research for their new vacation rental business.

Speaker 54 United States of citizens can't own property near the shore. The only way that you can do that is either you buy a lifelong lease as a word for it, fido camiso, or you start a Mexican corporation.

Speaker 54 It had to be two owners and one had to be a citizen of Mexico. So we agreed that we would do that and that we'd open this and run this rental business together.

Speaker 59 So Cesar helped incorporate the business and Carrie started making offers on rental properties.

Speaker 54 We find one property we really fell in love with. We made an offer on it.
It just starts to feel like it's falling into place.

Speaker 54 We visit another property, we make a second offer, and then I even find one more that I want. So we have three houses that we're going to purchase and then we're going to start running them.

Speaker 54 And my thought was, this is going to be enough income that it'll become become self-sustaining.

Speaker 11 Carrie supplied all the capital, but she wanted the business to be a real partnership.

Speaker 54 Here I am starting this new relationship, used to a partnership with Brad, used to having everything work really great, used to being a team.

Speaker 54 I didn't want to start out with saying, I'm 99% owner, you're 1%. It just felt mean.
Like, how do you start a marriage on that foot?

Speaker 54 Like, I want to share my life with you, but you don't get to own this company because I'm contributing to the company and you're not. So I made him 50-50 owner.

Speaker 58 She felt comfortable with this decision, especially because Cesar encouraged her to get a prenup.

Speaker 54 He's saying, you know, I would really feel more comfortable while we're getting married that you go speak to an attorney and get a pre-nuptial agreement. I'm thinking, wow, that's really, wow, okay.

Speaker 54 So that in my mind said, you're invested in the relationship. You're not so invested in the money.
You're invested in the relationship because you want me to protect myself.

Speaker 11 So she made an appointment with an attorney.

Speaker 54 The guy sits down with me and he explains prenuptials, how they work. This corporation in Mexico is not governed by U.S.
law. It's governed by Mexico.
It says that in the corporate paperwork. All U.S.

Speaker 54 law, it has no power in the country of Mexico. So I'm going to make a prenup on what?

Speaker 54 This seemed to me like a useless measure.

Speaker 59 She decided against a prenup.

Speaker 54 But for me to have him think of saying that really made me feel like, oh, look, you know, just like in that picnic when we had on that first date, he carried all the stuff. He's thinking of me.

Speaker 54 He cares about me. This is so sweet.

Speaker 59 After all, she believed Caesar had the best intentions, and there was so much to look forward to.

Speaker 45 The rental property company was off and running.

Speaker 54 So the value of Brad's life insurance is now been spent on properties.

Speaker 61 She really believed in what they were building together.

Speaker 45 The last step was getting married so she could officially become a permanent resident of Mexico.

Speaker 44 After a trip to the U.S.

Speaker 56 to tie up loose ends and finalize the sale of her home, Carrie returned to Mexico.

Speaker 44 She and Caesar planned to get married the following week.

Speaker 54 I come back from that trip and Caesar picks me up. He's holding flowers and he's rocking back and forth and he's white.
He's pale. He's jittery.
My first question was, does somebody die?

Speaker 54 That's what it looks like. Like he's going to tell me very, very bad news.
And he starts to cry and he says, it just hit me, because we're going to get married in five days, that I'm still married.

Speaker 54 And I said, what?

Speaker 43 On the next episode of Betrayal.

Speaker 54 I used to think that you were a good guy who sometimes wore a monster mask.

Speaker 54 But what I realized is that you're actually a monster who sometimes wears a good guy mask.

Speaker 54 And he whispers, I'm glad you know.

Speaker 58 If you would like to reach out to the betrayal team or want to tell us your betrayal story, email us at betrayalpod at gmail.com.

Speaker 59 That's betrayalpod at gmail.com.

Speaker 65 We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts.

Speaker 5 And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal.

Speaker 58 Five-star reviews go a long way.

Speaker 56 A big thank you to all of our listeners.

Speaker 62 Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.

Speaker 58 The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison. Hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning.
Written and produced by Monique Laborde. Also produced by Ben Fetterman.

Speaker 58 Associate producers are Kristen Melcuri and Caitlin Golden. Our iHeart team is Allie Perry and Jessica Kreinchek.
Audio editing and mixing by Matt Matt Delvecchio.

Speaker 65 Additional editing support from Nico Aruka and Tanner Robbins.

Speaker 58 Betrayals theme composed by Oliver Baines.

Speaker 44 Music library provided by MIBE Music.

Speaker 20 And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 3 You know that feeling when your alarm goes off and your first thought is, why do I feel so awful?

Speaker 5 It's like being betrayed by your own body.

Speaker 6 But here's the plot twist.

Speaker 7 It's not your fault.

Speaker 8 Dehydration and brain fog are sabotaging you beneath the surface.

Speaker 12 When I found Early Bird's morning cocktail, I felt the shift immediately.

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Speaker 11 Visit clubearlybird.com and use code BETRAYAL for 20% off.

Speaker 27 That's clubearlybird.com.

Speaker 42 Did a GLP-1 help you lose weight, but now you're noticing unwanted facial changes?

Speaker 20 The weight came off, but facial volume loss and dull sagging skin are making you look older.

Speaker 45 That's where the next phase of your weight loss journey comes in.

Speaker 46 There's before weight loss, after weight loss, and the after after.

Speaker 46 Help restore and refresh your facial skin and reclaim your natural-looking youthful glow.

Speaker 51 To learn more, visit faceafterweightloss.com.

Speaker 52 That's faceafterweightloss.com.

Speaker 69 A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers. But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught.
The answers were there, hidden in plain sight.

Speaker 69 So, why did it take so long to catch him?

Speaker 69 I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster: Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer: The Investigation into the Most Notorious Killer in New York, since the son of Sam. Available now.

Speaker 69 Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 70 You know what your customers are doing right this second? The exact same thing thing you are, listening to me. Which, let's be honest, is kind of flattering.

Speaker 27 But my point is: ads on iHeartRadio actually get heard. In the car, at the gym, on the couch, while people are walking their dogs, who's a good boy? Who's a good boy? You're a good boy.

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Speaker 27 Call 844-844-i-Heart or go to iHeartAdvertising.com. That's 844-844-i-HearteRT or iHeartAdvertising.com.

Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.