EP 10 - Donielle, Part 2

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Speaker 6 The only way in and out was through a steel trap door with a lock on the outside in a closet hidden under, I think it was a dresser or something.

Speaker 6 He walled it off with cement blocks and soundproofing. You would only know it was there if you knew it was there.

Speaker 1 I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, a show about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything.

Speaker 1 This is part two of Danielle's story. If you haven't heard part one, you should go back and listen to that first.

Speaker 1 Danielle Oliver Chauvet woke up in the middle of the night on February 8th, 2017, to find her house swarmed with police and FBI agents.

Speaker 6 Something's happening, and I have no idea why there's state police in my house with a gun pointed at me. So I think at that point they were suspecting me.
They thought I was involved.

Speaker 1 But a suspect in what? Danielle would soon find out. Chan Skipper, her husband of nearly 20 years and the father of their six children, hadn't come home that night.

Speaker 1 He said he'd been renovating one of their rental properties. The police were screaming questions at her about where Chad was, asking if she had any hiding places in the house.

Speaker 1 And most confusing of all, the police were asking about an elderly couple who taught Sunday school at their church.

Speaker 6 Why are you asking me questions about them and where is my husband?

Speaker 1 The police wouldn't give her any information about what was happening or why they were at her house, but it was clear that whatever it was, it was urgent.

Speaker 1 The police took her in and began a long interrogation.

Speaker 6 I went into the interrogation room and they started asking me questions. They asked me about this couple and I was thinking, that's a weird question out of the blue.

Speaker 6 Why would you ask me specifically about these people? Yeah, we know them for sure. We've known them for a long time.

Speaker 1 They were also asking questions about the family's finances. Questions Danielle just didn't have the answers to.

Speaker 6 I was shaking. I was just so confused.
Like,

Speaker 6 why are you asking me this? All I was worried about was his safety, like if he was still alive.

Speaker 1 It didn't even dawn on me that it could be what it was after hours of interrogation the police let danielle go she went to a friend's house where her kids were waiting for her she repeatedly tried to get in touch with chad without any reply then first thing the next morning her phone rang it was chad's father

Speaker 6 he asked me do you know where chad is and i said no do you

Speaker 6 i said i don't know anything if you know anything just tell me what's going on because I need to know what's wrong with my husband and where he is.

Speaker 6 And his dad just said, there was a rumor going around that this couple has been kidnapped. And the rumor is also that Chad did it.

Speaker 6 My brain was not registering. It was like, wait, what? No, that's impossible.
This is Chad we're talking about. That rumor's wrong.

Speaker 6 And I was thinking, there's just no way that it's actually my husband. I know my husband would never do anything like this.
That's not who he is.

Speaker 1 Unbeknownst to anyone, that couple from their church had been missing for three days. We're not saying their names because Danielle wants to respect their privacy.
Before this, they were friends.

Speaker 1 And Danielle believes that their story is their families to tell, just like her story is hers to tell. So for this episode, she's going to call them his victims.

Speaker 6 I had known them since I had met Chad. He had known them since the time he was born because they were part of his church.
They were our Sunday school teachers.

Speaker 6 We would often go over to their house and sometimes we would have like a pool party. Sometimes it would be a Bible study.
So we knew them really well. They were amazing people.

Speaker 1 The day before police raided Danielle's house, a woman had walked into a bank and asked for a cashier's check for $350,000 from her own savings account.

Speaker 1 Before the teller cut the check, the woman slipped her a note. She was being held for ransom.
Her captor was waiting down the block with her husband in the trunk.

Speaker 1 If she didn't return to the car with the check, her kidnapper said he would kill her husband. She needed to walk out of that bank, check in hand.
So they gave it to her and let her go.

Speaker 1 And as soon as she walked out of the door, the teller called the police. That call initiated a statewide search for the kidnapped couple and their captor.

Speaker 1 Immediately, it became the top story on the local news.

Speaker 2 It all started just before 5 p.m. on Wednesday when the sheriff's office received a call from First Trust and Savings Bank in Albany.

Speaker 7 Investigators are working with the FBI, state police, and local agencies. It's a case they say that will shock this community.

Speaker 1 The morning after the raid, Danielle was still in the dark about what was happening. She was reeling and desperately trying to get in touch with her husband.

Speaker 1 She didn't want to believe the wild theory that Chad could have kidnapped this elderly couple. That was until she saw his picture on the news.

Speaker 6 My whole world got flipped upside down

Speaker 6 at that moment when I saw his picture and the police update and what he had done.

Speaker 7 Developing story in Whiteside County, investigators say they've never seen anything quite like it.

Speaker 1 The man accused of kidnapping a couple at gunpoint from Erie, Illinois, is facing four felony charges in connection to the kidnapping.

Speaker 9 Chad Skipper handcuffed the couple to their bed and threatened to shoot them with his gun if they didn't pay him $350,000.

Speaker 6 At that point, all I knew was that he abducted somebody. And that's where I just broke down and started crying my eyes out and

Speaker 6 fell to the floor and was just

Speaker 6 didn't know what to do.

Speaker 1 In that moment, she understood why the police woke her up in the middle of the night.

Speaker 6 When the police knocked down my door asking if I had any hiding areas in the house, I'm sure they were looking for the people that he abducted.

Speaker 6 They were wanting to know if there was a place in that house where they could be hidden.

Speaker 6 As far as they know, I

Speaker 6 know

Speaker 6 where the kidnapped victims are

Speaker 6 because I'm his wife. I mean, most people would assume that the wife would know,

Speaker 6 but I had no clue.

Speaker 1 Over the following days and weeks, Danielle discovered the full extent of her husband's horrifying crimes.

Speaker 1 This is what she learned.

Speaker 6 A couple days before the police knocked down my door, he must have gone to their home. I think that's what the sledgehammer was for, to break into their home.

Speaker 6 He had my daughter duct tape it with black duct tape so that the yellow handle wouldn't be seen in the dark. I heard that he had a voice changer and that he was all dressed in black.

Speaker 6 And I also heard that he broke into their home and sat in their kitchen for several hours. before going upstairs to wake them.

Speaker 1 He just sat in their kitchen for hours in the middle of the night before he finally entered the bedroom where the elderly couple was sleeping.

Speaker 6 He tased the guy

Speaker 6 and threatened his wife and then said, where is your God now? And

Speaker 6 took them from their home forcibly. They didn't even have a chance to get their clothes on.

Speaker 6 And I know that he had told them.

Speaker 6 that it wasn't just him.

Speaker 6 Like he threatened them that it was like a group of who were doing this.

Speaker 1 After the police showed up at the bank, they called in the FBI, who traced the cashier's check and found the couple's names and address.

Speaker 1 When they searched their home, they discovered signs of forced entry, evidence of a deployed taser, and small drops of blood in the bedroom. But the house was eerily quiet.
No one was home.

Speaker 1 In fact, by the time the police were alerted, no one had heard from the couple in three days.

Speaker 6 He had her call around and tell a false story about them deciding to go on vacation. I think he even took their car to the airport.

Speaker 1 While Chad was committing this elaborate crime, Danielle was at home taking care of their kids, going about her business just as usual, completely unaware that her husband had violently kidnapped their family friends and was holding them for ransom.

Speaker 1 But where was Chad? And where was he holding the couple? Danielle had no idea.

Speaker 1 When the police were finally alerted, they knew time was of the essence. They relied on the FBI and state police to use all resources possible to find the missing couple.

Speaker 1 Ransom kidnapping cases like this often end in tragedy, especially considering the money was already exchanged. They were running out of time.

Speaker 1 With each passing hour, the search grew increasingly urgent.

Speaker 1 Then, the FBI got a tip about a car matching the description of the one seen leaving the bank with the kidnapped victims, a silver 1990 Chevy Caprice.

Speaker 1 But Danielle didn't know anything about a Chevy Caprice. So maybe they had the wrong guy.

Speaker 1 The police tracked the car down, but when they went to pull it over,

Speaker 1 the driver sped up.

Speaker 1 It was all over the local news.

Speaker 2 Around 4:30 a.m., the car crashed here outside Port Byron.

Speaker 8 We tried to effect a stop on that vehicle and they took off at a high rate of speed.

Speaker 1 The police approached the crash vehicle and found that the driver was indeed Chad Skipper. He was injured, but alive, and arrested on the spot in connection with the kidnapping.

Speaker 1 Law enforcement was hoping to find the victims with Chad, alive in the trunk of his car, but no one else was with him.

Speaker 1 Instead, the police found clear plastic painter's tarps, a saw, duct tape, and a shovel.

Speaker 1 Now that Chad was arrested, the only priority was finding the missing couple. There were still a few places the police hadn't searched.
Chad's rental properties.

Speaker 1 After he was arrested, Chad gave police the address where he said the couple was being held.

Speaker 6 When he was arrested, I thought that house was still rented. Like I thought people were in the house renting it from us.

Speaker 1 When police showed up, it looked like a construction zone. The surfaces were covered in sawdust and power tools.
The doors were taken off their hinges.

Speaker 1 And there was a ladder in the middle of the living room. But it also looked like someone had been squatting there.

Speaker 1 There was trash everywhere. Plates of half-eaten food.
Electronic wires and cables dangled from the outlets. Police searched every room, but no one seemed to be in the house.

Speaker 1 Then they double-checked the bedroom, where they took a closer look at a computer monitor laying on the floor.

Speaker 1 It appeared to show a surveillance feed, six live feed images of a windowless room where two figures were lying on a mattress covered by blankets. On the wall next to them were hooks and shackles.

Speaker 1 There was a secret room somewhere in this house, and Chad's victims were in there.

Speaker 2 It starts like any other night. The glass of red, the cozy blanket, then the drop.
The stains so dark, so stubborn, it might as well have been a crime scene. But this isn't your average couch.

Speaker 2 This is Anna Bay. Fully washable, unspeakably comfortable, and ready for whatever your life, your kids, or your ex throws ahead of.
And here's the kicker.

Speaker 2 Starting at just $6.99, you can make sure your sofa isn't part of the problem. Fully washable, stain-resistant, and built to hide even the darkest offenses.

Speaker 2 Right now, get up to 60% off in Black Friday savings because no one should have to live with a stain that won't quit. Anna Bay, the only mystery you won't be losing sleep over.

Speaker 2 Shop washable sofas.com today. That's washablesofas.com.

Speaker 10 A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers, but it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight.

Speaker 10 So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since the son of Sam.

Speaker 10 Available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 11 I'm Cheryl McCollum, host of the podcast Zone 7. Zone 7 ain't a place.
It's a way of life. I've worked hundreds of cold cases you've heard of and thousands you haven't.

Speaker 11 We started this podcast to teach the importance of teamwork in solving these crazy crimes.

Speaker 11 Come join us in learning from detectives, prosecutors, authors, canine handlers, forensic experts, and most importantly, victims' family members.

Speaker 11 Listen to Zone 7 with Cheryl McCollum on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

Speaker 12 In 1997, in Belgium, 37 female body parts placed in 15 trash bags were found at dump sites with evocative names like The Path of Worry, Dump Road, and Fear Creek.

Speaker 13 Investigators believe it is the work of a serial killer.

Speaker 12 Despite a sprawling investigation, including assistance from the American FBI, the murders have never been solved. Three decades later, we've unearthed new evidence and new suspects.

Speaker 14 We felt like we were in the presence of someone who was going to the grave with nightmarish secrets.

Speaker 12 From Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts, this is Le Mansre season two, The Butcher of Moss, available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 The night of Chad's arrest, police began searching one of his rental properties for a secret room, a dungeon, where he was holding two people captive.

Speaker 1 From what they could see on the surveillance feed, it was a windowless room somewhere in the house. The couple was lying motionless on a mattress.
It wasn't clear if they were alive.

Speaker 1 But then, one of the FBI agents moved a dresser in the closet and lifted up a piece of carpeting. to reveal a locked steel hatch.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 6 the only entry and exit exit to that dungeon room was through a steel trap door with a lock on the outside in a closet hidden under a dresser or something.

Speaker 6 He walled it off with cement blocks and soundproofing.

Speaker 6 You would only know it was there if you knew it was there.

Speaker 1 Police used bolt cutters to open the door. They found an eight-foot drop into a dark, windowless room, and they went in.
That's where they discovered the couple, miraculously still alive.

Speaker 1 They had been tortured and chained. Chad said he had people watching their kids and grandkids.
So if they tried to escape or get help, he would kill them.

Speaker 6 They were in that dungeon for a couple days.

Speaker 6 I can't even imagine

Speaker 6 thinking that you're going to die, thinking that your children are going to die, hooked up on this thing,

Speaker 6 your hands up in the the air for so many hours that you're basically shaking and can't even stand, and having their kids and grandkids threatened.

Speaker 1 Once he got the money, he was planning to kill them.

Speaker 6 I mean, what's he gonna do? Go, oh, I'm gonna let you go now. Forgive me, everything's fine.

Speaker 6 How else could it end?

Speaker 1 And judging by the contents of his car, it seemed like he meant it.

Speaker 1 This what-if still haunts Danielle.

Speaker 1 Chad was charged with felony home invasion, aggravated kidnapping, and unlawful restraint. His bail was set at a million dollars.

Speaker 1 Overnight, Danielle had to reckon with the fact that her husband of nearly two decades and the father of her children was capable of a violent crime.

Speaker 1 In addition to processing that shock, she didn't understand why.

Speaker 1 Was it all for the money?

Speaker 6 I didn't know that we were having financial trouble. I'm a penny pincher, so I don't know where all the money was going, and I don't know why he needed that.

Speaker 1 To answer that question, Danielle started looking through Chad's basement office. There, she made a series of shocking discoveries.
First, why he targeted the people he did.

Speaker 6 He had gotten a hold of their finances

Speaker 6 and knew how much they had in the bank

Speaker 6 because he had asked them to be clients of his for his fake financial business.

Speaker 1 His fake financial business. She also found out that he was never actually a certified financial advisor or planner.
So what did he do for a living?

Speaker 1 From what she gathered in his office, he charmed elderly people into letting him be their financial advisor, where he would skim from their accounts for years.

Speaker 1 In fact, after he was arrested, his own parents sued him for stealing over $400,000 while he claimed to serve as their financial advisor.

Speaker 1 But not only did he steal from his own parents, he also stole from his grandmother.

Speaker 6 It was around that same amount, something like $300,000.

Speaker 6 Maybe he felt like he needed to steal that from his victims in order to repay the money that he had stolen from his grandma.

Speaker 1 He never confessed to this, but it added up for Danielle. What never made sense, though, was the construction of the dungeon.

Speaker 6 I found the plans and bills from it in his office.

Speaker 1 Chad had been hiring a contractor to build the dungeon piece by piece over the past two years.

Speaker 6 I can't even imagine how much that cost. It had to be thousands upon thousands.
And I don't think the person who did it ever got paid, honestly.

Speaker 1 The shocking fact that he built a dungeon to hold the kidnapping victims kept the story in the headlines for months.

Speaker 2 In a NewsAid exclusive tonight, investigative reporter Chris Miner shows us a photo of that actual room where it's believed the couple was held against their will.

Speaker 1 Danielle never slept another night in the big house that she and Chad had shared with their kids.

Speaker 6 I did not want the kids to be back in the house knowing that he had done that, knowing that he was capable of kidnapping people that he'd known for his whole life.

Speaker 6 I didn't want them back into that house, and I didn't want to live in that house anymore.

Speaker 1 She and her kids moved into her parents' home while she got her bearings.

Speaker 1 For the first few months after Chad's arrest, Danielle's dad would accompany her to the old house to continue excavating Chad's office.

Speaker 1 The police had already collected the evidence they needed, and she was left to clean up the rest.

Speaker 6 day that we went into his office, there was another thing. Oh, he lied about this.
Next day, oh, he lied about that, too.

Speaker 6 I remember at one point, we were both looking at each other on our way to the house, thinking, I wonder what else we're going to find in his office today. What else could there be?

Speaker 1 There was insurance fraud.

Speaker 6 One of the things we found in his office was that he actually claimed that my wedding ring was lost and took insurance out for it. So

Speaker 6 even our wedding ring, he lied about.

Speaker 1 There was credit card fraud.

Speaker 6 He had fraudulently signed credit cards in his dad's name. He'd gotten credit cards in my name.
He had forged my name.

Speaker 1 She also found lies about herself.

Speaker 3 Stories she'd never heard before.

Speaker 6 We found several papers that had conversations written down on them that had lies about me as far as like I had to go have a brain surgery in Minnesota or somewhere.

Speaker 6 Just, you know, lies like that in order to gain control or gain sympathy from the people that he was talking to.

Speaker 6 There were just like conversations written down on a piece of paper. Some of them were to credit card companies because it was with credit card stuff.

Speaker 6 Some of it was to different potential clients that he was going to have.

Speaker 1 And some things she discovered were just suspicious.

Speaker 6 Hiking boots that he never wore. A wetsuit that was still wet

Speaker 6 and had a little bit of dirt on the cuff. And, you know, it's like, he didn't ever go scuba diving.

Speaker 6 So why does he have a wetsuit? And where would he have used the wetsuit? In the Mississippi River?

Speaker 6 You know?

Speaker 6 Just strange things that we never found an answer to.

Speaker 1 One of the most haunting things she found in his office was a set of life insurance policies on everyone in their family. Policies she never knew existed.

Speaker 6 He had life insurance policies out on me and the kids. I think mine was a million.
And I think my kids were a quarter of a million each.

Speaker 6 It messes with your mind really hard. I never felt like I was threatened or my kids were threatened for our lives.

Speaker 6 It was only after his arrest and when when we started going through the stuff in his office that I was like, whoa, if I had confronted him about any of this stuff, if I had known about it, I don't think I would be here.

Speaker 1 Danielle didn't want his explanations. She cooperated with the police and prosecutors and gave them any evidence they needed.

Speaker 6 One of the things that the police told me is that in all of their cases, they said they have never come across a case that was so cut and dried with the amount of evidence for this guy.

Speaker 6 I was like, wow. And he thought he was so smart.

Speaker 1 She sent him one letter in jail where she said she would be praying for him, but needed to cut off communication. After that, she filed for divorce.
But letters from Chad never stopped coming.

Speaker 1 Every few weeks, there'd be that distinctive envelope in their mailbox.

Speaker 6 Every time I got a letter from him, my whole body would just shake.

Speaker 1 I would get sweaty, palms, hard to breathe but as soon as i saw that envelope i'm like not another one she never replied hoping his letters would finally stop coming but one day she got a letter that was different from the others

Speaker 6 on the outside of the envelope it was not addressed as him it was addressed as eloisa may

Speaker 6 And that threw me because I'm like, well, this is definitely a letter from that jail, but Eloisa May is kind of weird. I don't know an Eloisa May.

Speaker 6 And there was no, like, a return address. It was just the name.

Speaker 6 And so when I opened it and it wasn't in his writing either, I was thinking, okay, that's weird too. So there's something off.

Speaker 6 The whole letter is written in this weird southern accent.

Speaker 6 I felt like I was reading Huckleberry Finn.

Speaker 1 This is how the letter began.

Speaker 6 Howdy there, Missy. My name is Eloisa May.

Speaker 6 You don't know me, honey child, but maybe we can remedy that with this here letter.

Speaker 2 It starts like any other night. The glass of red, the cozy blanket, then the drop.
The stains so dark, so stubborn, it might as well have been a crime scene. But this isn't your average couch.

Speaker 2 This is Anna Bay. Fully washable, unspeakably comfortable, and ready for whatever your life, your kids, or your ex throws ahead.
And here's the kicker.

Speaker 2 Starting at just $6.99, you can make sure your sofa isn't part of the problem. Fully washable, stain-resistant, and built to hide even the darkest offenses.

Speaker 2 Right now, get up to 60% off in Black Friday savings because no one should have to live with a stain that won't quit. Anna Bay, the only mystery you won't be losing sleep over.

Speaker 2 Shop washable sofas.com today. That's washable sofas.com.

Speaker 10 A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers, but it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight.

Speaker 10 So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer, the Investigation into the Most Notorious Killer in New York, since the son of Sam.

Speaker 10 Available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 11 I'm Cheryl McCollum, host of the podcast Zone 7. Zone 7 ain't a place.
It's a way of life. I've worked hundreds of cold cases you've heard of and thousands you haven't.

Speaker 11 We started this podcast to teach the importance of teamwork in solving these crazy crimes.

Speaker 11 Come join us in learning from detectives, prosecutors, authors, canine handlers, forensic experts, and most importantly, victims' family members.

Speaker 11 Listen to Zone 7 with Cheryl McCollum on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

Speaker 12 In 1997, in Belgium, 37 female body parts placed in 15 trash bags were found at dump sites with evocative names like The Path of Worry, Dump Road, and Fear Creek.

Speaker 13 Investigators believe it is the work of a serial killer.

Speaker 12 Despite a sprawling investigation, including assistance from the American FBI, the murders have never been solved. Three decades later, we've unearthed new evidence and new suspects.

Speaker 14 We felt like we were in the presence of someone who was going to the grave with nightmarish secrets.

Speaker 12 From Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts, this is Le Mansre Season 2, The Butcher of Moss, available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 While Chad sat in jail, Danielle was trying to rebuild her life. That's when she began to get strange letters in the mail.
The return address just said the name Eloisa May.

Speaker 1 This is what the letters were about.

Speaker 6 It's this fake character who supposedly lives, I think, in Arkansas or something, but she moved to Illinois because her daughter is in Illinois.

Speaker 6 She had a stroke and so now she's in the hospital and she came across my story.

Speaker 6 And she starts telling me how her husband was an alcoholic. And at one point, he physically abused her.
And so she left him and went to live with his parents.

Speaker 1 Finally, Chad, or Eloisa May, got to the point.

Speaker 6 She ended up deciding to get a divorce because, you know, she didn't want to deal with his abusive, addictive issues. He ended up killing himself.

Speaker 6 And because of her decision to get a divorce, her daughter and son are having issues in their lives and they take the blame for him dying.

Speaker 6 I felt like it was a threat. If you divorce me, I'm going to kill myself, and your kids are going to feel like it was their fault.

Speaker 6 That's the feeling I got from the letter.

Speaker 1 The letters were four, five, six pages long, written in a tiny, neat handwriting that didn't look like Chad's at all.

Speaker 1 She assumed that either he was disguising his handwriting or got someone in the jail to write it for him while he dictated.

Speaker 1 Either way, the character Chad was putting on was so transparently manipulative.

Speaker 6 He didn't directly say, how can you divorce me, but through the character of Eloisa May, he was basically saying that.

Speaker 1 She suspects that he made the character Southern to try to pull on Danielle's heartstrings because her grandmother was from the South.

Speaker 6 A little bit later, he goes, I feel the good Lord telling me to do something and I got a little eager, Danielle. Sugar.

Speaker 6 And may I declare, darling, that is is one of the most beautiful and unique names I've ever heard. Something we have in common, sweetie.

Speaker 1 Chad also used his extensive knowledge of the Bible to try and make Danielle question her decisions.

Speaker 6 He basically has a sermon in there and quotes Bible passages about God hates divorce and gives me examples of different characters in the Bible who wanted to get a divorce, but didn't because it's not the right thing to do.

Speaker 1 The Eloise May letters almost amused her, but they also felt like an insult. Did he really think she would fall for this?

Speaker 6 I think he had a very, very low opinion of me, or still does.

Speaker 6 I struggled with that, with my marriage too, because

Speaker 6 he treated me like a child.

Speaker 1 She kept the Eloise and May letters to remind herself of just how delusional and scheming Chad really was.

Speaker 1 A year after after his arrest, Chad pled guilty. But before he faced a sentencing hearing for the kidnapping, they had their divorce trial.

Speaker 6 He actually did not have a lawyer to do those proceedings. He was pro se.

Speaker 6 And so he questioned me on the stand,

Speaker 6 which was really, really nerve-wracking.

Speaker 1 Danielle was awarded full custody. And shortly after, she attended her ex-husband's sentencing hearing.
It started with the victim's statements.

Speaker 6 There were no dry eyes in that courtroom.

Speaker 6 They're amazing people.

Speaker 1 The judge was stunned by Chad's crime, especially the premeditation that had gone into building the dungeon and the torture the victims endured.

Speaker 6 From what the judge said when he sentenced him, he wanted people to know this is not acceptable in society. Like,

Speaker 6 it's heinous.

Speaker 6 You can't just

Speaker 6 do that type of a crime and get away with it.

Speaker 1 The judge gave Chad the maximum sentence possible.

Speaker 2 Today, Chad Skipper in a packed courtroom listened as he awaited his jail sentence. 60 years, the rest of his life in prison.

Speaker 6 I was thinking he was only going to get 20 years.

Speaker 6 And so when it was 60, I was surprised.

Speaker 3 Surprised, but grateful.

Speaker 1 She sees how dangerous Chad is and doesn't want him anywhere near her or their children ever again.

Speaker 1 She says she forgives him, but forgiveness can include boundaries.

Speaker 6 I have a big, big problem with some of the ways that Christian pastors portray forgiveness. That

Speaker 6 every marriage, 100% of marriages, can be resolved.

Speaker 6 And I was like, that is very, very untrue and very, very dangerous to say.

Speaker 6 If there's an abuse happening, that's not true.

Speaker 1 Danielle decided to stay in that small town of Erie, Illinois. Chad's victims still live there too, and Danielle has seen them around town.

Speaker 6 I have seen them. Yeah,

Speaker 6 I've seen their kids. You know, I smile at them when they see me.
I don't know if they recognize me or not. I don't know

Speaker 6 if they see me when I see them. I really don't know.

Speaker 1 She's even thought about reaching out to apologize for the pain her husband caused and to grieve with them.

Speaker 6 I would love to talk to them directly.

Speaker 6 I haven't because when I was speaking with my lawyer and also the police even said something about don't reach out.

Speaker 6 And so I've just kind of like took a step back. I don't even know what their thoughts are towards me, if they feel like I was part of it, or if they know that I had no idea what was going on.

Speaker 6 One of the reasons why I haven't reached out is because I really don't want to cause them more pain.

Speaker 1 Some people in their community just didn't believe that Danielle was in the dark about her husband's double life.

Speaker 6 When he first was arrested, there were some posts on Facebook about it. People were saying, oh, she knew, and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 Around town, she's noticed that people don't smile and wave as much as they used to.

Speaker 6 I haven't had anybody approach approach me and accuse me of anything. It's just, you know, when you're walking around in a small town, sometimes

Speaker 6 you get looks, just kind of a weird side look, like, I know who you are. Don't look at me, don't interact with me.

Speaker 1 She's had to reckon with blaming herself for not knowing who her husband actually was and what he was really doing all those nights. He claimed to be in the basement working.

Speaker 6 I couldn't have known. He didn't show that part of himself to me.

Speaker 6 All I know is the life that he had with me and our kids. That's all I saw.
He was able to do everything else completely separate. I can't blame myself for something that he did without me knowing.

Speaker 1 As part of her healing process, she's learned about people like Chad and the tactics they use. Tactics that felt very familiar.

Speaker 6 When I was doing my studies of narcissistic behavior, one of the things that really spoken to me was a thing called word salad.

Speaker 6 And I totally was like, yep, that's exactly what it was.

Speaker 6 Just words that twist anything that I said, he would twist it around and jumble it up like a salad and then shoot it back at me. And my mind would just be like, I don't even know what's going on.

Speaker 1 These kinds of things helped her understand how he had subtly manipulated her for so long, but that didn't ease the self-blame or the sense that she couldn't trust anyone around her or even herself.

Speaker 6 If my husband can pull the wool over my eyes so easily, and I thought that he was an amazing person,

Speaker 6 does that mean that this amazing person

Speaker 6 can also pull the wool over my eyes? Like, what are they actually behind closed doors? Are they the person that they are presenting to me as, you know, a loving brother, a loving friend?

Speaker 6 But then, when we are not in each other's presence, are they somebody else?

Speaker 6 Like, okay, this pastor seems like he is everything that a pastor should be.

Speaker 6 But now that I've been through what I've been through, is he who he says he is?

Speaker 6 Or is this just his presentation of who he says he is?

Speaker 1 For Danielle, trusting the wrong person, building a life with them left her all alone and a single parent.

Speaker 6 All the weight of the responsibility is now mine.

Speaker 6 Because I know I had six kids and I had to support them now.

Speaker 1 She found work as an online English tutor and she built a business writing and selling knitting patterns.

Speaker 6 My business is called Knitting Nicely, but then nicely is spelled with a K-N.

Speaker 6 I'm really proud that I have a business that I absolutely love and enjoy.

Speaker 1 After her divorce, she decided that she was done with romantic romantic relationships.

Speaker 6 My whole view of the loving, caring relationship of marriage got trashed.

Speaker 6 Even when I would see couples in church or shopping, holding hands, or I would see a post about somebody celebrating an anniversary,

Speaker 6 it would kind of turn my stomach. It just felt you to me because of what I went through.
You know, having trust in someone and then having that trust completely destroyed.

Speaker 6 I didn't want to go through what I went through again. I didn't want to put my kids through that again.
So for me, I was like, okay, I am going to do this single mom thing and we're going to make it.

Speaker 6 But then.

Speaker 1 But then she saw a post on Facebook from her high school boyfriend Billy, the one who proposed to her 30 years ago. They'd since drifted apart and hadn't talked in nearly a decade.

Speaker 1 But in his post, She saw that his fiancé had recently passed away. So she reached out to lend support.

Speaker 6 We were just like being there for each other.

Speaker 6 You know, I kind of wanted to uplift him and make him come out of the hole that I felt like he was about to go into, just to have somebody to talk to, to be able to laugh with.

Speaker 6 But then the conversations got longer and then we ended up staying up all night talking over messenger.

Speaker 6 And my daughter was starting to say,

Speaker 6 Who is this that you're talking to all this time? And

Speaker 6 I think she knew before I knew that I was starting to fall in love again.

Speaker 1 Danielle and Billy planned a FaceTime call where they would see each other for the first time in years.

Speaker 6 And as soon as I saw his smiling face, I knew that

Speaker 6 was it. I was gonna pursue that relationship for sure.

Speaker 6 The trust issue was not even an issue in the situation.

Speaker 6 Because I had known him from when I was a teenager, there wasn't that, is he really who he says he is question

Speaker 6 so they started dating again both of us were like this is weird how could this actually be happening again donnie and billy 2.0

Speaker 1 after a few months of dating again they got married surrounded by their families at the thanksgiving table So we had Thanksgiving dinner and then between Thanksgiving dinner and dessert is when the wedding happened.

Speaker 6 Yeah, it was really cool. I loved it.
Wouldn't have it any other way.

Speaker 1 We end all of our weekly episodes with the same question. Why did you want to tell your story?

Speaker 6 Knowing that you're not alone is so helpful. That's huge for people who've gone through stuff like that.

Speaker 6 That was one of the main things that helped me. Knowing that people have actually survived it and are happy again.
That was really huge.

Speaker 6 My main reason for wanting to tell my story is to give people hope That even though you may feel like

Speaker 6 your world is upside down and it can never become upside up again, there is a light at the tunnel. Maybe really tiny and small, might be a little tiny speck, but there is a light.

Speaker 1 On the next episode of Betrayal,

Speaker 6 he said, yesterday I turned myself in and I will be going to prison.

Speaker 1 And when he said the word prison,

Speaker 6 I about died.

Speaker 1 If you would like to reach out to the betrayal team or want to tell us your betrayal story, email us at betrayalpod at gmail.com. That's betrayalpod at gmail.com.
We're grateful for your support.

Speaker 1 One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal.
Five-star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners.

Speaker 1 Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison.

Speaker 1 Hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. Written and produced by Monique Laborde.
Also produced by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are Kristen Mel Curie and Caitlin Golden.

Speaker 1 Our iHeart team is Allie Perry and Jessica Kreinchek.

Speaker 1 Audio editing and mixing by Matt Zelvecchio. Additional editing support from Nico Aruka.

Speaker 1 Betrayals theme composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by MIBE Music.
And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 10 A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers. But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught.
The answers were there, hidden in plain sight.

Speaker 10 So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster: Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer: The Investigation into the Most Notorious Killer in New York, since the son of Sam.

Speaker 10 Available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 15 Hi, listeners. I'm M.
William Phelps, host of Paper Ghosts, the Texas Teen Murders podcast. And I'm excited to share Paper Ghosts, the Texas Teen Murder Story with you.

Speaker 15 And want to let you know that you can get access to all episodes of Paper Ghosts and every single episode of Paper Ghosts 100% ad-free with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts.

Speaker 15 Plus, you'll get access to all episodes of Paper Ghosts, The Texas Teen Murders, one week ahead of everyone else, available only to iHeart True Crime Plus subscribers.

Speaker 15 You'll get access to other chart-topping true crime shows you love like Betrayal, The Girlfriends, The Turning, River Road, Pikedon Massacre, Murder Homes, Unrestorable, Camp Shame, and more.

Speaker 5 So don't wait.

Speaker 15 Head to Apple Podcasts.

Speaker 5 Search for iHeartTrue Crime Plus and subscribe today.

Speaker 16 Season one of Crying Wolf is here. We're thrilled to keep sharing these jaw-dropping stories with you.
And now there's even more to discover.

Speaker 16 With an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription, only on Apple Podcasts, you'll unlock 100% ad-free listening on Crying Wolf and other fan favorites like Atlanta Monster, What Happened to Sandy Beale, and Sympathy Paints.

Speaker 16 Don't wait. New episodes are ready for you now.
Open Apple Podcasts, search iHeartTrue Crime Plus, and subscribe today.

Speaker 11 I'm Cheryl McCollum, host of the podcast Zone 7. Zone 7 ain't a place.
It's a way of life. Now, this ain't just any old podcast, honey.

Speaker 11 We're going to be talking to family members of victims, detectives, prosecutors, and some nationally recognized experts that I have called on over the years to help me work these difficult cases.

Speaker 11 I've worked hundreds of cold cases you've heard of and thousands you haven't. We started this podcast to teach the importance of teamwork in solving these crazy crimes.

Speaker 11 Come join us in learning from detectives, prosecutors, authors, canine handlers, forensic experts, and most importantly, victims' family members. Come be a part of my Zone 7 while building yours.

Speaker 11 Listen to Zone 7 with Cheryl McCollum on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.