O Brother, Where Art Thou? with Emily St. James

Blank check with Griffin

Day.

Blank check with Great Finn and Griffin and they

don't know what to say or what to expect, but the name of this show is Blank Check.

I am the only podcast you got.

I'm the damn Potter Familius.

But you ain't bonafide.

Damn.

Here's the thing I found.

Potter Familius.

Potter Familius.

But I did podcast first and then Potter Familius.

I don't want FOP.

God damn it.

I'm a podcast in, man.

I don't know.

Here's a thought I had while watching this movie last night.

I don't want FOP, goddamn it.

The way he says FOP is the best line reading of one million years of human history.

This movie has

so many incredible lines of dialogue,

perfectly delivered, transcendently delivered, right?

People just fucking identifying the slightly off-kilter way to throw it out without overselling the dialogue.

And my big thought while watching this and all these lines coming up is, I am so happy that somehow this movie has not

gotten into the Big Lebowski territory of I have to hear these lines all the time.

Yeah.

Every time I put it on, it's a pleasure to hear these lines again.

Yeah.

I

always like have a weird, when I start, I know I like this movie.

Yep.

But when I start it, I'm like, this is going to be the time when I get off it.

It's just not going to work for me anymore.

And every time I'm like, oh, right, this hasn't been so thoroughly seeded into the culture that I like low-key resent it.

It's nice.

It's a really nice feeling.

And I'm not saying it's something that like works against Big Levowski, but it is pleasant that every time you revisit this movie is actually a revisit.

You candy butter car thieving so-and-so's a curse your name is one of my favorite undersung lines.

There's so many good lines.

In Oh, Brother Warrant There, a film that I see, the thing is, I've seen this movie like 40 times, so I am not

like I, it is not a new thing for every time I'm like, oh yeah, right, right, I know every line of this movie.

Like for what I owned it on DVD, so I just watched it too.

Hey, same, but I'm just saying, you're not hearing it on the streets.

Yeah.

It's not being meme to death.

Streets.

Yeah.

You know?

I don't want fop, goddammit.

I mean, I was just in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

People were just shouting things at each other in this movie.

It's all your coastal elitism showing right now.

It is fascinating that the movie has still kind of retained that status and even perhaps like receded a little in the Cohen's canon, considering that its soundtrack was one of the most culturally impactful things of its decade.

And beyond it being that big was also just like one of the most bizarre things to ever ever happen in American pop culture.

We were talking about it.

It defeated Outcast Stanconia for album of the year.

ABC.

Really?

Yeah, Ben.

Yeah.

That's crazy.

You want me to pull it up?

I'm going to pull up all the nominees that year.

It cannot be overstated how big the soundtrack was.

And I cannot think of another example of a soundtrack being that disproportionately bigger than the movie it spawned.

I think there are cases of like.

Yeah, I mean, because things like Saturday Night Live, it's like the movie was huge.

I mean, this movie was big, fever.

Well, also live, though.

Yeah.

The movie was huge.

Freightman?

Remember?

I'll tell you what was huge.

That movie's kind of a comedic thriller.

Let us

the villains.

Let us

clock Zar Darth Vader.

Who else is huge?

Milton Burlescock.

There we go.

In that movie.

Yeah.

Here are the five nominees for album of the year of the year 2002.

So we're talking two full years after the movie came out.

Because the movie comes out limited release.

Late 2000.

End of 2000.

Goes wide, beginning of 01, wins soundtrack of the year, like March 02.

This is not Soundtrack of the Year.

Album of the year.

Album of the Year.

I'm sorry, but that's March.

Oh, brother, where art thou soundtrack.

Now, the other nominees.

Okay, give them to me.

Stanconia by Outcast.

A pretty big album.

Kind of their artistic peak.

Yeah.

And it still fucking holds up.

Yeah, I think Speakerbox the Love Below is great, but it's two albums that are not really linked.

It's guys who are no longer

know how to collaborate.

Stanconia is the last proper Outcast album.

And when they won for Speakerbox Love Blow, there was a real sense of, oh, this is for the other albums.

Right, exactly.

This is which I think the Grammys are constantly guilty of.

No, Idle Wild is actually,

it doesn't matter.

Bad.

Not very good.

I mean, there's some, there's, there's some.

And there looks there are other aliens.

Atlians, that's before.

But that one's also a banger.

Look, all their albums are good.

Right.

Yeah.

They're good.

But Senka.

It is 100% a fair.

And it's their

cultural.

You know, Miss Jackson is sort of like, that's when the most.

It's the weirdness of Haya being so humongous, but also being like, these guys are breaking up.

Yeah.

And this is not every song.

Right.

Right.

Not a big boy song.

Love and Theft by Bob Dylan.

Underrated.

Could be

late Dylan album.

You know, Tweedledee and Tweedledum.

Sure.

Shall I go on?

Yeah.

An album that I bet Ben loves.

You two's All That You Can't Leave Behind.

Ben.

Which even I

got to get yourself together.

It's not a YouTube album.

That's why I'm singing it like Dave Matthews.

Look, I don't actually like that album that much.

Every YouTube fan.

Everyone thought that was going to win, though, because that was the post-9-11 Grammys.

Perfect day in elevation.

Beautiful day.

Beautiful day.

I'm sorry.

Beautiful day, elevation.

And it has the one that everyone listened to after 9-11.

Yeah.

Sorry, when we can't get out of walk-on, those first four-year-olds.

Does it have the Games of New York song?

No, it does not.

That was not on an album except for like a best of.

It does have New York, which is one of YouTube's worst songs by a country mile.

It It is astonishing.

Concrete jungles.

If you ever want to have a chuckle, Google the lyrics to New York by YouTube.

But it was such a big, I think that must have been the front runner because it was such a big album and it was kind of like U2's comeback.

It was O-Brother winning was a huge upset because, yeah.

And then India RE's Acoustic Soul was the fifth, which was a big deal at the time.

Absolutely, but probably not a front runner.

Sure.

But, but, like,

was

O-Brother the second best-selling of that lineup?

Oh, I don't know.

That's my question.

I'm like, I would be fascinated to hear, see what the sales stats were for Stanconia,

the U2 album, and O'Brother.

A U2 album is definitely in the league, but I like.

I think so too.

But I'm like, did O-Brother outsell Stankonia?

It may have.

Look, I'm going to look it up.

This is a little harder because, you know.

You know, it's like you're talking years and not like Grammys seasoning.

It was just so bizarre because the album clearly caught on in a way that was completely independent of the movie.

Like the movie came out, people liked it, it overperformed a little bit, but didn't like fully cross over, right?

Right.

It didn't do the true credit.

It wasn't selling well.

And then the album became a thing.

Yeah.

And then they do like concert tours with the album.

There's the concert documentary, which I can't find anywhere anymore from called Down from the Mountain.

And the thing is, I remember that, though.

It was nice.

It caught on.

We were talking about this before we recorded.

It caught on with like young people.

It was like 20-somethings were banging bluegrass.

And once again, the pitch is old-timey music.

Yeah.

I mean.

Like, that's within the context of the movie.

I like.

Centering the depression.

They're like, you guys know any old-timey music?

I was watching A Complete Unknown, and Alan Lomax is a character in that.

It's like he's the fucking guy who's standing in Dylan's way.

And I was like, why do I know Alan?

It's because of this.

There's a whole bunch of songs from his collection on this album.

So I have a brother split between 2001 and 2002.

In 2001, it was the ninth selling album of the year.

It sold 3.4 million copies.

Millions.

Did we all have it on CDs?

Yes.

I had it on CDs.

People buying physical discs, going to

streams.

I don't think iTunes existed yet.

I don't think that launches.

No, but I mean, Stephen Root was spinning those discs a lot.

And doing a lot of it.

Yeah.

I remember seeing this movie in theaters, and when that was happening, I turned to my mom and I went, is he having like a seizure?

She was like, no, he just likes the song.

And so certainly it is above any of the Grammy nominees I mentioned in both years.

And in 2002, it sold another 2.7 million.

Wow.

So, you know.

So it sold like 6 million copies in its first 18 months.

I guess so.

Yeah, Stanconia has only been certified quadruple platinum, so it's only sold 4 million.

It's total, O-Brothers total, it's eight times platinum.

It sold 8.1 million copies in the United States as of October October 2019.

We haven't checked in in the last five years.

Just above O Brother, just to complete this little, because I love, I love a list.

We love lists.

So you got at number eight, you've got Creed's weathered.

Oh, yeah.

I'm not up on Creed, I will admit.

I only know them as kind of like.

It has to be arms wide open, right?

That has to be the album.

It is,

come on, Trump.

Creed's back.

It is not.

It's not?

It is not.

Is that the follow-up?

I think it is.

Yeah.

Yeah, I guess so.

Is this

how you remind me?

Yeah, with our...

No, that's Nickelback.

Yeah, okay.

This must be so embarrassing.

Right.

So is it a...

If I go crazy, then we'll use to call me Superman.

I don't even know what that is.

That's three-door steps.

It's three-door steps.

The thing is, a lot of this music, not to pull this card, did not make it to Britain in the same way.

Greed absolutely didn't.

Yeah.

Christian Rock was not a thing in Britain.

But old time

album does make it to the UK?

Maybe a little bit.

I think this was pretty niche in Britain.

This whole thing was pretty.

But anyway, above Creed, we've got Destiny's Child Survivor.

Okay, that's a great album.

Alicia Key's songs in A minor, her first album.

Very good.

Stains Break the Cycle, which is reprehensibly bad.

So bad.

What's the single off that?

Oh, you know how you remind me.

I know.

Fuck, what is it?

You know, it's been a while.

You know, that was.

It's been a while.

I just remember that Scott Ackerman,

his podcast, they do that joke anytime someone's like,

I'm talking about Emily.

And then, so they, as a joke, they're like, let's actually listen to the whole album.

Right.

And they go track by track, and it's so tough to listen to.

That fucking new metal stuff.

Fourth, Enya, A Day Without Rain.

Now, this is later, Enya.

But I was going to say Lord of the Rings.

That's the thing.

I think she got a fellowship bump.

It's another post-9-11 thing.

Yep.

Yeah.

They call Emily.

I guess.

Even though it was released pre-9-11, I think the bump comes post.

Yeah, because, yeah, we were all looking for solace.

Yeah.

And then the top three are, of course, the best three albums of 2001.

Number three, NSYNC Celebrity, which is fine.

Number two, Shaggy's Hot Shot.

Right.

Which is the It Wasn't Me Comeback.

Oh, it's the follow-up?

No, no, I'm saying like, it wasn't me with Shaggy's comeback.

Right.

Like, it was like, Shaggy's returned.

You thought Mr.

Boombastic was a one-hit wonder.

I didn't know he was gone.

Yeah.

You didn't know.

You don't think Shaggy kind of slightly receded in the public memory?

This is the It Wasn't Me album.

For like two years, the person who didn't personally know me before I transitioned, who had misgendered me the last time was Shaggy.

What?

And then I got misgendered.

I was at a press conference and he couldn't see me and he just was going off my voice.

So he said, sir.

And I was like, and I was not offended because it was Shaggy.

I was like, well, that's a good last time.

You accused him of misgendering you and he said it wasn't me.

He's got a kind of airtight alibi.

This is the thing.

By making himself the it wasn't me guy, he can slip out of any accusation.

And then some lady at an airport did, and I was like, well, that's it.

He used to be Shaggy in the dream step.

Yeah.

He's so good.

Shaggy?

Love him.

You should sing more of his canons right now on Mike.

Angel, that was one.

My darling, you're my angel.

Yeah, that sounds right.

Number one,

God bless him.

And this is, I think I've talked to Ben about this, Lincoln Park's Hybrid Theory, their first album.

Humongous.

Which at the time I was so dismissive of.

I think about this now, and I really think it was internalized homophobia.

A little bit from me, a little bit from Simsy.

Unpack this.

Even though it was a woke boy,

I think that music is so sincere.

I listen to it now, and I'm like, this is special.

Like, this is interesting.

It's not 100% my thing, but it's so emotional.

Man in a tremendous amount of pain.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And I think at the time I was a little too, like, too much, you know, not cool, not cool.

You know, like, this is like too much emotion, too much feeling.

Don't you think that was kind of about to break

everything you say to him?

But don't you think that?

It takes him one step closer to the edge don't you think that was kind of he is crawling in his skin he's crawling in his song is pretty

don't you think that that was kind of the magic that that blew up the record charts 100 but that's that there was this combination of like externally this guy's really tough and hardcore and his voice is so extreme and the songs are aggressive and then there's like such a sensitivity in the center of them that that that clash kind of was able to reach across the aisle.

There's so many albums in that top 10 that are like boys being sincere over like electrical.

Yeah, that emerged right as I'm a teenager, like 15 years old, and I'm like a little too cool, even though I wasn't the coolest kid in school.

But I considered myself too cool.

So much of it.

Or essentially emo music.

And so much of it, like Creed, seems like it's sung by a church praise band.

And you're like, it's actually just kind of...

Christian adjacent.

And then it also feels like this is on the brink of splintering off into Screamo, which is then like not even pretending to be hardcore is just like emotions first and foremost.

Like there's a bifurcation that I think happens.

Well, certainly a lot of that is underground music.

And I think a lot of people, that was the thing that they hated about Lincoln Park is that they were this like homogenized,

you know, really they're bringing it mainstream.

Right.

But that always happens.

And then the underground stuff becomes overground very quickly.

Yeah.

It's like we talk about how like Spider-Man 2, the whole fucking album is Screamo shit.

Sure.

And you're like, you can't get more mainstream than this.

The list you just read off, though, makes it all the more insane that the O-Brother soundtrack explodes.

Yeah, O-Brother doesn't really fit into what I just read out.

Into anything.

It would be weird if that soundtrack went viral today.

It's uh, it does presage uh uh Screamo, though.

It's very, you know, the O'Brother.

O-Brother's Screamo.

Yogling?

All the way.

Yeah.

I am a man of carcassaro.

Pretty emo.

Yeah.

If you say that, that's emo.

I'm a man of silence.

That was the point I was just making.

That was the profound point I was just making.

Now, I have a couple other threads I want to tie off.

Okay, one,

Griff wasn't here for this, but we were discussing Taylor Sheridan's steakhouse, of course.

Oh, sure.

I'm sure you're very aware of it, 4.6es, which is in Las Vegas at the Wynn.

Emily, your picture is framed on the wall.

Yes, it is.

Yeah, yeah.

Taylor and I.

Yeah.

Looked up the old menu.

Oh, sure.

You know, and they've got your regular steaks, Porterhouses, filet mignons.

I would imagine.

Maybe you want a Cornish head if you're, you know, feeling saucy.

But, and this is to speak to Ben and his experience of expensive steaks.

They do have a $1,000 steak.

Now, here's the thing.

I'm lying.

It's $9.99 on the $9.

Oh, good.

$9.99.

No, no cents?

No, no, $0.90.

What?

$9.99.

I think it's like $6.66, but.

Okay, so you have to keep a nickel in four cents.

What I appreciate, and that is ridiculous, who would buy that?

I don't know.

I'm sure there's people out there who just are real big steak heads.

At least the price is listed.

That's true.

It is listed right here.

It's Japanese purebread freedom wagyu tomahawk 48-ounce steak with beef, tallow, raqulette, cheese, popover.

Interesting.

That sounds pretty good.

That does sound good.

That kind of sounds like the, in the, you know, if this is the Bambino, which is an item we've discussed in the past.

Is the popover like the check?

Is it the longest?

You're stepping on my joke.

I was going to say that the steak also comes with a signed check by Babe Ruth, a long pour, and a a Victrola.

And a Bordelays sauce, which is sort of like a whiny sauce.

Anyway, so.

And also, it's grilled by hand by Kevin Costner.

Yeah, they get him in there.

That's the one thing he'll still do for Taylor Sheridan.

I love steak.

It'd be so funny if Costner fucked it up just to mess with Sheridan.

Like he overcooks it.

Did you watch the final season?

Of course you didn't watch the final season.

They kill Kevin Costner like seven times.

Yes.

It's just showing his death over and over.

And then there are like six episodes devoted to how well Taylor Sheridan fucks, right?

And how well he rides a horse and he dates Bella Hadid.

Yeah.

Right.

Oh,

you could tell me anything happened on Yellowstone.

I'm like, that there's a character played by him who decides to buy the ranch after Costner dies.

And every character is like, God, he's so much better than Kevin Copner.

Played by Taylor Sheridan.

Played by Taylor Sheridan.

And Bella Hadad is his girlfriend and constantly talks about how good he is in bed.

Makes allusions too.

Five-minute sequences of him doing trick riding on a horse.

I've seen

these

supercuts.

But there's a right, he's trick riding on a horse, and then one of the other female characters goes like, man, he rides that horse while.

And Bel Hadid goes like, you don't even know.

I'm sorry, I'm looking up the.

Okay, other loops to close.

It's the final words.

It's Ben's birthday.

Happy birthday.

Ben,

25 years young.

Yep.

Decade of dreams.

Oh, yeah.

Griff walks in here, Emily and I, and we haven't introduced Emily, of course.

We haven't introduced the podcast.

No, I have.

We've talked about the music scene of 2000, 2001 a lot.

At least that's somewhat relevant.

Absolutely, deeply relevant.

We are discussing the film Transamerica and how the director of that film never made another movie again.

Yeah, just a weird one off.

And then so you, of course, immediately summoned the specter of Mr.

Quirky Romano.

Rewatched Quirky Romano just this last weekend, looked up the man who directed it, Rob Pritt, who had zero credits on IMDb previous to this film in any position.

And then since then, has only made two short films in 2012.

And I'm like,

where did it come from?

And so I googled him and I found a little interview with him.

Mostly works in advertising, which I guess is not too surprising.

You know, and they're asking him questions like, oh, what was your first advertising project?

Yada, yada.

Do you guys want some cookies?

Yes.

That line reading kills.

If you were to change professions, what would you choose to do?

Here's Rob Pritt's answer, Griffin.

Okay.

Competition barbecue smoker.

I cook a killer 15-hour slow-smoked pork shoulder that I think would do well in a cook-off.

It is on print.

So if you ever want to roll up your sleeves with the Pritster, stir, enter the prit, not the pit.

Nope, the pritster.

The show on HBO.

This is the Pritmaster.

If you want to try his pork shoulder, you should head on over to Taylor Sheridan's Steakhouse in Las Vegas.

What if Pritz working there?

Yeah, he's behind the smoker.

Yeah.

And

I heard this that he tried to get a job on the pit, and they were like, your name's Pritz.

Too confusing.

It's too confusing.

So I think that's all of it.

Incredible.

Thank you all for listening.

Remember to great review and subscribe.

No, this is Blank Check with Griffin and David.

I'm Griffin.

I'm David.

That's a classic gap.

That's a classic throwback David got distracted by

distracted by a very, very annoying question.

Vintage.

Vintage.

It's a podcast about filmographies.

Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want.

Nice cough.

Sometimes those checks clear.

Sometimes they bounce baby.

And sometimes their album goes quintuple platinum.

Yeah, no, eight.

So octuple?

Octuple.

Octuple Platinum.

This is a mini-series on the films of the Coen brothers.

It is called

Pod Country for Old Cast.

Probably.

I think that's right.

I couldn't tell you.

It's really slipping out of my brain every time.

Not just this, but most things.

Today we're talking about O Brother, where art thou, which is weirdly their like comeback film from the failure of Big Lebowski at the time.

What is perceived as an absolute wipeout, but also is more known as the film that spawned one of the biggest albums of the time.

Do you think they get a cut of that soundtrack?

Here's the thing I know.

I'm sure, well, you know, here's the thing I know.

That's fine now.

What I know is that

it's still,

George Clooney talks about this in interviews.

Tim Blake Nelson made more on this movie than any other.

He actually sings on it.

He's the only one who sings.

Right.

Only on the second song.

Interesting.

He doesn't sing on Mana Constantine.

But he also is.

In the Jail House Now.

That's when he sings.

That's actually his voice.

Is it not his voice doing Backup on No Brother?

It is not.

It's Constant Saro.

It is not.

Interesting.

Yes.

I will also share that a lot of this music is not copyright.

Right, because it's, you know, traditional.

It's all traditional music.

So I do think that there is definitely potential for like a unique kind of like...

financial share.

Like, were they producers of the story?

I don't think they were.

I don't see their name on there.

That's another another thing that makes this film bizarre: they work with Carter Burwell on every single movie.

He is such a defining part of their film language.

He gets some additional music credit on this, but this is really like T-Bone Burnett.

And this movie makes T-Bone Burnett a household name.

It's just, it's too bad that Joel Cohn doesn't get like an envelope from the Spotify Corporation every month with like two dimes tapes

to her index cards.

You want to hear that somehow this was their like Star Wars deal.

I'm surprised surprised this hasn't become a Broadway musical.

This feels like a national

call.

This is why we bring you in.

But maybe, again, that's a Cohen's roadblock where they're like, what?

No, I don't want to do that.

But on the other hand, they've always been like, I don't know, go ahead and make your Fargo show.

Who gives a shit?

That's true.

Right?

Like, somebody has like, I want to do a Jesus movie.

And they're like, fine.

Well, that one, they're friends with the guy.

With the Fargo show, they kind of, it seems like their reaction was more like, huh?

I see.

And it was like, well, we're going to do it because we can.

And they were like, attitude is very much like, we don't block stuff because it's not fucking changing the original movie.

Yeah, they're definitely, you're right.

They had also sold out the Fargo TV adaptation rights a long time ago, and then they bounced around.

So, I wonder if they have more creative control over this.

But they should make it a musical, they should do it.

They should.

No, that's really smart.

And that's the kind of insight you only get from our returning for the

seventh, eighth-time guest, Emily St.

James.

I'll look it up.

I don't know.

Hello, Emily St.

James.

From the podcast like it's the 2000s.

Yes.

From the new novel Woodwork.

Writer on Yellow Jackets.

Emily St.

James.

Hello.

Munich.

Boom.

Alice.

Boom.

Lambs.

Which, look, you hold,

if you want to view it as a distinction, that is always the default answer.

I feel like David and I throw out a worst movie we've ever cut off.

I love it, I don't listen to that episode because it's under my old name, but I love that episode because we just, it's just tangents.

It's just us trying not to talk about the Futterwack.

Yeah, and it's not exactly the most, you know, it's not a fucking

fun gold narrative over here.

I think it's a good episode.

Yeah, great episode.

Derrible movie.

Lambs.

Silent Linsov, not Lions 4.

No.

We have yet to do Lions for Lambs.

Carol.

Not Todd.

Christmas Carol.

Yeah, you're describing these titles in Weirdware's.

Thing.

The.

Stoker.

Yeah.

Six.

Postman.

Seven.

So this is the eighth of Prayer.

Eighth.

My first.

My first time I did this show.

my first time i did this show just to to because we're reminiscing yeah this year a decade of trans uh i uh didn't know ben existed and i was just sitting there listening to you two talk and this voice popped in

and i was like who is this man with long flowing blonde hair like and a beautiful uh

a donut's voice uh yeah yeah uh i was like who the actually i was like who the fuck is that right right this was when our uh we recorded in a closet that was so small that if we had a guest ben couldn't be in the room and listened on headphones from the room next door.

The closet next door.

The smaller closet.

Yes, yes.

And now it's your birthday.

Whoever thought?

Decades of dreams.

Yep.

David, yes.

This episode is brought to you, The Listener.

by Mubi, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the globe.

From iconic directors to emerging auteurs, there is always something new to discover.

With Mubi, each and every film is hand-selected, so you can explore the best of cinema streaming anytime, anywhere.

And here's a hand selection.

Here's a spotlight.

Nothing more to discuss here.

Everything's

turned the spotlight on.

I've put my glove on to select by hand

through the creak of the door.

We have three different visuals going on.

What?

The glove to hand pick.

Oh,

of course.

David Mussolini Colin, son of the century.

It is.

Look,

it's an exciting project, but it's really funny to be like, guys, Mussolini!

Here's what's funny about it.

Just to peel back the curtain for a second.

We get like messages that are like, hey, you guys good with this ad?

Yeah, here's the copy for the ad.

And as shorthand, it was texted to us as, you guys good with the Mussolini ad?

And I was like, Mussolini sponsoring the podcast?

What do you mean?

To be clear, we decry Ilduce Mussolini, Benito Mussolini, the terrible dictator of Italy.

But we celebrate Joe Wright and his newest project.

The filmmaker Joe Wright

has created

an eight-episode series about Mussolini's rise to power.

And I will say, not to sound like a, you know, a little nerd over here, but it is actually very interesting to consider Mussolini's rise to power in these times.

You know, he was sort of the original fascist and the way that he sees power in Italy is

unfortunately something we should probably have on our minds right now.

I don't not try to be a loser right now.

You seem like me right now.

This is the kind of thing I say.

It's a very interesting part of history, and I feel like because, you know, other World War II things became

whatever, the history channel's favorite thing, you don't hear quite as much about Mussolini's fashion.

Yes, no, you're right, unfortunately, sadly, tragically, frighteningly.

He's not a hugely this is a hyper-relevant time.

And this is a theatrical, hyper-visual tour deforest starring Luca Marionelli.

Martin Eden himself.

Remember that?

Beloved member of the Old Guard.

That's right.

The movie I love.

The episode that people considered normal.

All right, well, sequel

checking notes here.

Great.

Critics are calling it a towering performance of puffed up vanity.

It features an era-bending score by Tom Rowlands of the Chemical Brothers.

That's cool.

Imagine techno beats scoring fascist rallies.

It just sounds kind of Joe Wright-y.

It does.

Joe Wright.

You know, he won't just do a typical costume drama.

He likes to, you know, think about things in a different way.

Got futurism,

surreal stagecraft, cutting-edge visuals.

Guardian calls it, quote, a brilliantly performed portrait of a pathetic monster.

It's part political burlesque, part urgent contemporary warning about how democracies fall.

This is heavy ad copy, guys.

Usually it's kind of like, eh, shorts, you know,

critical raving words.

A gripping, timely series, The Guardian.

Remarkable, The Telegraph.

A complex portrait of evil.

Financial Times.

Yeah.

No, it's Joe Wright,

one of the scarier people I ever interviewed.

I've told you that story, right?

He was, he was, he knows he's kind of a cool guy.

We've batted him around.

He's certainly gotten interesting.

He's very interesting.

He's very interesting.

And he's made some great movies, and he's made some big swings that didn't totally connect.

Totally.

That's really interesting.

He actually is a blank check filmmaker, unlike a lot of some people.

I get suggested.

You're like, sure,

it doesn't fit the model.

This one does.

This one does.

Look, to stream great films at home, you can try movie free for 30 days at movie.com slash blank check.

That's m-u-b-i.com slash blank check for a month of great cinema for free.

You can watch Mussolini or you can watch non-Mussolini things.

Yeah, they got lots of movies.

They got a lot of things.

Bye.

Oh, Brother Were Art, thou.

An adaptation of Homer's The Odyssey.

Yes.

By two guys who claim that they have never read it.

Yes.

I appreciate this.

I do too.

I do this a lot.

I adapt things and don't read them.

I'm just like, I know this from cultural osmosis.

Like, I'm working on a book right now that is ostensibly a riff on little women.

And I'm like, I didn't revisit little women.

I have half memories of it.

And I'm like, surprised how much of it got in there.

I think their point was like, we have seen so many adaptations and riffs on this that we understand what the basic beats are.

The actual text doesn't matter as much to us as the idea of

right the beats the structure

yeah um

it's just it's a loose adaptation yes everything about this movie is is odd it's odd that big lubowski was seen as such a failure that this needs to like dig them out of the hole

that it does that but is much more of like a commercial play than like respected by awards bodies or i even feel like critics were a little like yeah it's cute i i think critics were somewhat dismissive you know to the extent of a cohen's movie where they you you know, they gave it a look.

Yeah.

But this was pretty quickly minor Cohen's, and then the cultural

footprint arrived a little later.

Yes.

In a way, did get an Oscar Nom for screenplay, for adapted screenplay.

Did it get cinematography?

Yeah.

That was a tough year for adapted.

So they like had, they were filling that category.

I did get, yeah.

I remember Ebert was very dismissive of it.

Ebert was down on this movie.

Yeah.

You know, he's probably just grumpy.

I don't know.

Now, David, you and I, I think.

there were no hot chicks in it that's definitely ebert's hot chicks era god bless him i love roger ebert but once the 2000s start if there's like a hot chick in a movie he's like really was into angel eyes and i'm like oh were you roger yeah the lopez run is incredible he's like there's something about this movie something about lopez is a star that really is i'm really really interested by

stars play this well with the camera behind them i think he put the cell in his top 10 movies in 2000 and was like this movie just has an interesting look and i'm like It does, but also the thing is, right, he sometimes ahead, you know, like the cell is good, and it was dismissed, and it probably shouldn't have been.

Right, but I wonder what Roger's real.

That's why he liked the Garfield movie so much.

Oh, yeah, yeah, because the man was crazy for pussy.

So, O Brother Rart, though, was dismissed at the time, David.

We established on a previous episode, you and I somewhat dismissed, I think, you know, yeah, yeah, it was sort of like

it's not like a hudsucker where people are actively a little hot.

Oh, and once again, it was it was like a, it was an on-base hit.

It was a hit.

Oh, it made money, yeah.

Uh, you and I both think this is the first one we saw, yeah, in theaters, yeah, I think without a question.

I hadn't seen any of them, I, I don't think I would have seen it.

My question is, right, had I seen one of the earlier ones on video or something.

I hit this is absolutely the first one I saw in theaters.

I think I saw Fargo on video, though.

I owned both Fargo and this on DVD in the early days of DVD, and I watched them a lot.

And this was a good DVD.

It had a lot of stuff because of the technical stuff.

Which is also funny because the Blu-ray sucks.

Oh, does it?

It's a bad transfer.

They've clearly never updated it.

And it feels like it has less features.

A lot of bad discs.

Yeah.

Like, there's the handful of criterions where they've done a good job.

But it's like, as I was embarking on the, okay, what discs should I buy?

I'm not like you where I like, you know, we'll buy like a Dutch DVD of, you know, I will never buy it.

I only do that if there's no other option.

Well, that's not me.

No, then I'm like, I rented that on iTunes.

I don't need to buy a disc.

But with the Coans, a lot of the discs discs felt a little uninspiring.

Yeah, I'd agree with that.

I think a lot of that is a bunch of their films ended up at MGM, who for a long time really brought up the rear on

physical media releases in the high-def era.

But this one just looks like it's the DVD transfer put on a Blu-ray.

I think it was a pretty early Blu-ray release.

I feel like it doesn't carry over all the special features.

It's kind of like blocky and artifact-y, which is interesting for a movie that was so pioneering

in its sort of like digital control of the image that that has not been preserved well.

Yeah, you watch, I watched it on Amazon Prime Video, and it was,

yeah,

the real breakthrough of the images is not really clear anymore.

It doesn't look bad, but it is very clear that it is like a very old source being used on every streaming platform, on every digital retailer, and on the disc.

It is like very overdue for like, yeah, like a criterion set with the fucking concert film on and all this other show.

Do they not want to do this stuff because it's kind of like then you're in true retirement mode?

Like, are they resistant to like, okay, let's dig through the back catalog?

I mean, or do they not want to talk to each other right now?

I think, like, a lot of filmmakers of their era, weirdly, they kind of don't give a shit unless it's Criterion.

It feels like if Criterion gives the call, they're like, we'll show up and we'll do this.

And they like do features and they oversaw the fucking transfers and everything for Lewin Davis and Miller's Crossing and

Blood Simple.

Yeah.

Fargo Shout Factory has now put out a good disc, but like the first MGM Shout Factory disc,

first MGM Fargo disc is so bad, they had to reissue like an apology disc to you.

I remember that.

I remember the apology disc.

And then the shout version is much better.

I feel like also if I'm the Cohen brothers, this is not at the top.

I love this movie, but it's not at the top of my list to like, yeah, I wonder what they make of this one.

But I'm also like, if I'm them and I'm in like semi-elder statesman mode, I'm like, maybe let's get criterion to put all of them out.

Well, sure.

I mean, there's rights issues, I'm sure.

But like, Buster Scruggs is a movie that I watch where I'm like, oh, these are the guys who made our brother.

Like, it's not gone.

They're very linked movies, and even down to there's so much similar language.

Obviously, some of that's time period.

But the use of like if in and the structure of the sentences and obviously Tim Blake Nelson.

Yep.

Yeah.

This is a Cohen's mode.

This is my favorite movie by them in a mode I don't always like, which I call effortful pastiche.

Yeah, sure.

Like Hudsucker, I just can't get on board with.

I'm so sorry.

That is certainly a titanic example of that genre.

It is my favorite film, and yet, as we are looking forward to the idea of ranking their filmography at the end of the series, I'm like, I don't know if I can put that in the top 10.

I love it.

Maybe because they have so many masterpieces.

They have a lot of, but who knows?

Lady Killers is that.

Yeah.

Which is bad.

Yeah.

I think Lady Killers is good.

But it's one of their weakest.

It is their weakest, period.

What else is an effortful pastiche?

I do.

Like, I like Intolerable Cruelty.

I don't like, I think Intelliberal Cruelty is, and I like Buster Scruggs, but I think it's also kind of in that vein.

Parts of it sort of are.

Intolerable Cruelty is so fascinating to me because it's effortful pastiche, but set in present day, which is, I think, why everyone bumped on it so hard at the time.

Great movie.

That it was like, this is them failing to make a modern studio rom-com.

And then I didn't get it until i cracked into like oh they're doing sturges it just happens to be 2004 yeah but this is so structurally culturally a movie from 2003

so far i i i think hail caesars that that's like i like a lot of these movies but i like hail caesar you know i what puts them over the top for me is when they have that layer of craft and then they add in the fargo thing the show and davis thing the no country thing of like oh this is about people real people existing

in a movie space as our top.

These are the movies that I think make

certain critics like Ebert go like, what are they doing?

Are these movies just like making fun of dumb people and showing us how good their tricks are?

And they're

obsessed with language.

Coberman, that was his whole thing of just like, right, this is them like playing with toys

and not engaging seriously.

But my experience seeing this movie in theaters was just like, holy shit, why is everyone not acting like this is the greatest film ever made?

Because I had just never seen their filmmaking style before.

You're getting a shot of Cohen's.

Totally.

And you've been like a starving child in the wilderness and someone's giving you like, you know, a bottle of Gatorade.

I was in re-watching.

I do think this was like a foundational building block.

What I like in filmmaking movie for me in the way I've talked about like Unbreakable being one of those and Rushmore being one of those.

All fucking touchstone releases.

Like just weird to think that Disney had this like a Touchstone Universal co-production.

Universal got overseas, I think.

Touchstone released it domestically.

Yeah, but the production companies are Touchstone and Universal.

So, like, I think Universal had more.

Because Universal had the working title first look.

I love the Touchstone fanfare.

Touchstone.

It's your favorite.

You always shout it out.

Like, you know, you don't even know that you're doing it.

Like, you, you love that.

It's good.

It's just, there's something about it that feels almost comforting.

Yeah.

But

it's great.

It is crazy to think that like Disney bought Miramax.

Miramax was their specialty art house division, and yet Touchstone was releasing movies like O-Brother and Rushmore that were like, we're letting interesting directors make quote-unquote studio comedies.

And they're like, these are a little weird, but we're putting them in 2,000 theaters.

Yeah.

Well, I can tell you about that if I open the

dossier, but is there anything else we need to discuss before?

Just that I had that feeling of like, this is the most impeccably made movie I have perhaps ever seen.

Wow.

I'm astounded by the craft and the performance and the language.

And I was surrounded by grown-ups who were just sort of like, that's cute.

And I was like, am I losing my fucking mind?

How is this not winning best picture?

And then I went back, started watching their earlier films, and saw every movie they made after this in theaters.

And I get it now, where when I watch this, I'm like, I understand how this could be dismissed, but it is kind of a perfect movie.

Yeah, it's kind of a perfect.

I think it runs out of, not that's too strong, but like, I think it sags slightly in the middle.

I don't love, I feel so sorry to say this to this man.

He's a nice man.

Michael Batalucho's performance enough.

I like it a lot.

I like it.

It's fine.

But on rewatch, I was watching it and I was like, it's fine.

It's maybe the weakest section.

Yes.

The babyface,

the bankrupt.

Excuse me.

Not babyface.

His name is.

I don't remember.

George.

George Nelson.

George Nelson.

Yeah.

It is a picaresque.

And like many picaresques,

it has a gear that it gets in and never quite leaves, which is fun.

Like it is, they pick the exact right length for all of these episodes.

You're going to be out of an episode quickly enough that if it's boring, you're kind of like, okay, well, it is the fascinating thing for me every time I re-watch it is I remember segments being longer than they are.

I'm such a slut for Picaresque.

You was a toad.

Do

not

seek the

treasure.

I think casting Toturo as like a southern, you know, yokel is one of their boldest gambits.

These three faces are good.

I mean, the faces are so good, and that's why they casted her.

But like, Toturo, it's like, this is probably one of the first Toturo movies I see.

Yeah.

Right.

And then, like, every later, I'm like, he's always playing like a racist pizza guy for either Spike Lee or Joe.

I can't believe I'm turning this into a thread in this episode, but John Troturo once seemed to have misgendered me, but he had actually misgendered Margaret Atwood.

Wow.

He said, excuse me, sir, to Margaret Atwood?

No, I was, I was in I was interviewing him and he was talking it was like

we plot against America and I was you know I had recently transitioned I was interviewing him and he used he him and I thought he was talking about me but he was trying to remember who wrote the handmaids tale and he was like and he

wrote that he wrote the handmaids no she wrote the handmaids

yeah he was like oh right margaret atwood so apologies to margaret that is wild um no you're right it is odd to cast a turo in this way, despite how much the Cohens love.

They're smart.

And also, the third person above the title on the poster in this movie is Tim Blake Nelson, who was functionally unknown, semi-retired from acting.

And they nailed this so hard.

And he's talked so much about the casting process and being like, why the fuck are you offering me this straight?

That he basically, off this one performance, never stops working again.

There has been no Tim Blake Nelson fallow period where you're like, that guy just kind of disappeared from screens for five years.

I remember he's in Watchmen.

And that is like, I'm like, that's kind of like his old brother performance.

Absolutely.

Such a different character.

This guy's like one foot out the door in acting and they're like, you're on the poster next to Clooney.

And they're just like, thank you for identifying a key element in the next 25 years of cinema and television.

This guy has ultimate utility.

I think they also figured out a thing that can work about a movie like this that we've seen a lot more of now that movies are made on reduced budgets, which is you can have John Goodman come in for five days and do a, you can have Holly Hunter come in for five days and do a part of the picaresque magic, but then it's also nice when one of those segments is someone you've never seen before.

Like there's such a good balance of like really comfortable, sort of familiar stars,

great character actors who you're kind of discovering, and then just like some people with great faces.

Like the woman at the bank who calls him babyface is clearly just a woman they found.

Oh, she's such, such a

guy who says he can't keep the fucking soggy bottom boy albums on the shelves.

Yeah.

Great face.

Just some guy.

I want to say something about Tim Blake Nelson.

I just feel like he's been operating in the shadows recently.

You know, sort of pulling the strings.

What is the joke here?

It's like he's got a little tablet, maybe.

He's in like a bass.

you know, and if he taps the tablet, like he can make anything happen in the entire world.

You think that he's quietly the leader?

I think he's been pulling the strings.

It is insane.

That's all I'll say.

Three times they tried to cast him as a Marvel character.

Sure, I'm counting the two Hulks

as separate times because they were so split up in such different characterizations.

Right?

Sure, right.

And on paper, you're like, Tim Blake Nelson is the leader?

Fuck.

Tim Blake Nelson is Mole Man.

Incredible.

They're bringing Tim Blake Nelson back as the leader.

He's really going to do it this time.

All three times fucking just mangled it.

And it's not his fault.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, Oh, Brother Were Art Thou

was a film that made by the Cohn brothers.

And for the first decade of their career, according to JJ, they could basically just make whatever they wanted to make.

Hudson's Proxy took a little while.

They have Suburbicon, which, of course, they never make, but that's a script they had for a long time.

And then George Clooney perfected it.

It was waiting for its ideal form.

But essentially, the Cohens were saying, like, in the 90s, like, we don't have any rejected scripts.

Right.

Like, we're not sitting on a ton of projects.

For the first time, they now have stuff that's not getting off the ground.

as jj would put it their first case of the attaches happens after big labowski

so to the white sea which of course our friends jordan and ray have covered very extensively they're probably their most famous unrealized

project yes um which is based on a james dickey novel about what a guy on the beach or something who gives a shit hey i love being like dismissive of this movie uh it was gonna be a brad pitt vehicle yes light on dialogue brutal i remember such a hyped thing This is like the period when Ain't It Cool News is like the biggest.

And they were like, yeah, Drew McWheenie's like, this is the greatest screenplay I've ever done.

It's much the single best screenplay of all time.

I mean, it reads unbelievably.

Right.

And if you're reading it while thinking about the 10 Cohen Brothers movies you've already seen at that point, you're like, how is this thing not a fucking

cowards?

I think, because this is all.

Too white for them.

Yeah.

Yep.

Oscar's too white.

They, I think it was another case where Pitt pulled it out at the last second.

This is that big era for him of like the fountain

to the white sea.

They'd already had trouble finding someone to give them money to make it because it was going to be expensive and like not an easy sell.

So, yeah.

It's a little 1917, not in that it's a one-shot, but that it's just sort of like one guy surviving in semi-real time.

but without dialogue.

And it's interesting they do this because this is the comedy version of To the White Sea in a very strange way.

Yeah, yeah, in a certain way.

But I think, yeah, I think Pitt either properly dropped out or was like, I took Troy, it's back burnered or whatever.

I know Intolerable is the thing that they make right when they thought To the White Sea was about to go, but they're obviously trying to get off the ground at this point.

Now,

some other stuff they get attached to.

An adaptation of the Elmore Leonard novel, Cuba Libre, which is set in Cuba in the 1890s before the Spanish-American War.

That would probably have been like a big movie that doesn't happen.

They also were interested in another Leonard novel called La Brava

about a Secret Service agent who gets mixed up with an aging movie star.

Sounds kind of fun.

Of course, famously, Ethan Cohen has a screenwriting credit on the film The Naked Man, the Michael Rappaport movie.

J.

Todd Anderson, their longtime collaborator, storyboard artist.

Yeah.

Have never seen.

It's like he becomes like a wrestler who is naked.

His wrestling costume is like an inside-out body.

It's the movie spinoff of that friends character that we never see, right?

Yeah, the naked guy.

Raffle Four, of course, was in Friends.

Yep.

Ray and Jordan

Stanford say it's like a fun,

extremely silly, unserious thing.

Right.

And Ethan is sort of like, look, that was J.

Todd's thing, but I thought it was so fun and silly.

And I have no sense of ownership over it.

It's the Crime Wave driveway dolls in Ethan, where sometimes if you go, like, do you want to make something that has zero prestige to it?

I think he has a really good time.

Yeah.

Ethan also released a short story collection called Gates of Eden, which I have read.

Wow.

I remember it being pretty good.

Yeah.

So they're doing stuff, but they start work on O-Brother in 1997.

I also just want to call out, I don't know the exact timeline of this, but this is certainly all bubbling at this time.

Gambit, which they write but don't direct.

Intolerable cruelty and ladykillers, they're hired to write and then end up directing.

Like, this is the period in time where they're starting to to take assignment work, at least to pay the bills.

Yeah.

They like period stuff, obviously.

So O'Brothers sees them traveling to the 30s.

They claim they did a little research and they didn't read the Odyssey.

I find all of that hard to believe.

I do too.

There's so much in this soup of this movie that is based on history of, you know, the history of the time and the politics of the stuff.

You know, whatever.

I don't think they're just going to like, eh, let's have a Klan rally.

I think they did more research on the era than on the Odyssey, certainly.

They claim that they started with like a three saps on the run movie, and then after a while, they're like, could this be like the Odyssey?

You know, like, it's like, you know, which I get that in terms of like, what's the ultimate picaresque story, I guess, in a way.

The degree to which it's riffing on southern politics of the time with some degree of accuracy suggests they like at least read

the 1997 equivalent of the Wikipedia and the work book encyclopedia.

And Papio Daniel is like very similar to a real guy.

Isn't there a guy who's name is 5% off of that?

Yes, and who had a flower-based radio hour?

It's not like I'm singing you are my sunshine.

These aren't like, no, that's a different guy.

Oh, but that's a different southern populist governor.

This is what I'm saying.

Like, they are, yeah, they're not just like...

Even the way the clan is used in the downfall of Stokes is similar to the way that the clan would be a force and then someone would get outed as a member and people would be like, well, we don't talk.

Right.

You're not allowed to actually be so publicly.

I say, What a good storytelling decision to just be like, in a pica-esque movie, tie up all your loose threads by being like, and by the way, everyone across the movie who is antagonistic to us is a clan member.

We can just knock them all out in one go.

They claim, everyone claims that the only person involved who actually read the Odyssey was Tim Blake Nelson, who has a degree in classics from Brown University.

Yes.

His WTF, he definitely talked about this, that they would come to him and be like, how does this go in the real story?

Obviously, the film is inspired by Sullivan's Travels, the Preston Sturgis masterpiece in that movie.

Joel McRae is trying to make O Brother Rarta, which is this like parody of like a serious movie.

Have you ever seen Sullivan's Travels, Ben?

I have no.

It's one of the greatest comedies of all time, but yes, it's about a successful Hollywood.

He's a screenwriter.

Yeah.

Who makes very successful comedies, but begs for the idea of prestige and the idea that what he's making is frivolous and doesn't matter.

Right.

And the most important scene in Sullivan's Travels is when a bunch of prisoners are shown cartoons.

Like, and it's like about how the power of art is not, you know, in like fake seriousness.

And the prison scene watching the movies, you know, like there's so many obvious references to Sullivan's Travels.

But it's what I find so fascinating is in that movie, the movie he says he wants to make, that's his big serious issues movie, is Oh, Brother, Where Art Thou, which is a story of the downtrodden man.

And they tell him, you don't know how to relate to this, you can't write this.

So then he pretends to be a hobo in order to gain the experience, but then he gets kind of caught and he can't get out of the life and he's stuck in it and he ends up in prison.

He watches these prisoners, watch cartoons, and he's like, oh, making people laugh has value.

I don't need to make something that is self-serious.

But this movie has the title of the fake self-serious movie and is having this very interesting kind of cake and eat a two thing where it's like, it's a comedy, but also it is actually engaged in the reality of the types of people in a silly way that he's attempting to make O'Brother Rartho about, if that makes sense?

It does, yeah.

I think that part of the critical reaction to this movie was based in, oh, they are, they're showing you their hand throughout.

Right.

They're like, they're showing you all the references they're making.

They're letting you know what they're doing in a way that I think actively turns people off, maybe on a first watch sometimes.

Don't you think there's also an interesting thing, though, of like the most film literate people writing reviews, dismissing, yeah, I get it.

I know all the references.

Right.

Right.

And you're like, you're holding it against them that you know the same stuff.

It's a, it's, if I ever teach film criticism, don't think you're smarter or don't care that you're smarter than a movie.

And also, like, not to be an asshole about it.

Fucking 90% of the people who are reading your reviews aren't going to be like, oh, I get it.

George Clooney.

Had made a little film, a little tiny film, as my daughter likes to say when she wants to watch one more blue.

A little tiny one, she'll say, as if like that, you know.

He made this little film called Batman and Ampersand Robin.

Have you heard of it?

I haven't.

I've seen it.

And we covered it on our Patreon.

Oh, that's right.

And he'd been on ER for five years.

And he claims he went to his accountant and said, How am I doing?

The accountant was like, If you never work again, you will be fine.

You've made money, sir.

And George Clooney is one of those guys who, I guess, was not famous long enough that he's not like, I need endless money.

Of course, then he does stumble into a tequila company and make a billion dollars.

It is so funny.

You always talk about when you interviewed him for Suburbicon and he was like, the great thing is that now I've struck,

I truly, if I am doing something, I'm doing it because I want to do it.

Right.

But was also like, the tequila company has freed me up, or now I don't need to just work to pay the bills.

And I'm like, I think you've kind of been past that point, but I understand you've entered a new strata of wealthy.

But I mean, the whole problem with that era of his, where you're like, oh, that's great.

You don't need to make money to make the bills.

Is then the movies he makes, I'm like, I think you need the bills weighing down on you a little bit.

It's a decade of lazy boy filmmaking where I'm like, you're too comfortable.

so right after Batman and Robin, which is a critical and commercial failure.

I don't know if you guys knew that.

Do you like Batman and Robin?

Uh, not as much as I feel like I should.

I feel like it's the kind of movie I should be like, yeah, because now everyone is like Batman and Robin.

Where do you say forever, though?

I like forever.

See, I bumped into forever and Brahmin I love, but that might just be which I say.

I just think Bal Kilmer's hot.

That's literally what it is.

Sure is.

Sure was.

Well, in that film he's yeah.

So his next three films after Batman and Robin are Three Kings, Out of Sight, and O Brother Art Thou, right?

Now, there's some bad ones in there, but they're mostly like cameo.

There's some other.

Those are his next three big projects.

Soderbergh, Jamino Russell.

But he was, you know, an exciting young filmmaker.

Yeah.

And it's a very good film.

And Joel and Ethan Cohen.

He talks about that in that era, like post fucking accounting conversation.

He's like,

if Batman and Robin is how to like do the conventional movie star thing and play to win, I like don't care about maintaining my quote.

I'm gonna like cut my quote in half.

He said, I think I've been paid my full quote like four times in my entire career past Batman and Robin.

I don't know what those are.

I think it's like Tomorrowland, probably Ocean's 13.

Yeah, come on, give me the quote.

I think Perfect Storm was whatever the quote was at the time.

But that he's like, I'd rather take less up front and bet on the movie and have like a higher stake in the back end and be able to work by not saddling a movie with a 10, 15 million, $20 million salary on top of it, keeping the movie's costs lower so that the return on investment is higher and the film can be stranger.

And when he leaves ER, which is around this time too, it feels like it's still one time that a big star leaves a TV show and there's not like a lot of rancor.

Everyone was just like, oh, yeah, he's time for him to look.

And like he came back in the final season.

Like he sure did.

Well, more importantly, he comes back in season six, in my opinion, the greatest cameo in a TV show ever because nobody knew that was happening.

That when Margolise leaves the show, spoiler alert for ER.

Right.

He comes in, she's delivering.

She just leaves.

She's like, I'm out of here.

She's pregnant with his child, but you're like, you know, they're not getting Clooney back.

He's fucking, oh, brother, where aren't they now?

And then she just goes to that dock and there he is fishing on the

it's so good.

Everyone lost their minds.

But there is this kind of interesting fulcrum point here, which is like one fine day, Peacemaker Batman and Robin is like sort of the obvious studio playbook for how to build a movie star career, right?

It feels like he hits a bit of a wall.

Batman and Robin's like the real crash.

And then he resets and

out of sight fucking rules and is beloved and was the coolest movie.

And everyone's like, Clooney's done it.

He's convinced us he's a movie star, but that movie doesn't do well.

No, it does like

fine at best.

Three Kings does all right.

Yeah.

Yeah, but it's a challenging movie.

Yeah, there was a feeling when this movie came out of like, has Clooney cracked it well you're forgetting it perfect storm was a huge that's the other and that's a summer 2000 movie now that almost feels like him playing it a little bit safer he's got the overall zone he's got the big beard but he is good that movie is kind of underrated at this point people forget about perfect storm i love that the ilm doc gives it its due i told you to watch that for what's their

uh you know

decade of dreams what the hell is it light and magic light and magic

uh about just like how hard it was to make water like in 2000 um

and then, right, this is O'Brother where everyone's like, he's, I mean, he's so good in this.

He's so good.

He wins the Golden Globe and it felt like it's movie star shit.

And his head is held high.

He's not doing his usual ticks.

He's unlocking like new movie star moves.

And then next year is Ocean's 11, which is kind of everyone just being like, all right, you know,

you're never a TV

turned movie star again.

You are a George Starbucks.

You have a friend.

You're a hatless.

Yes.

Right.

Right.

You've, you've made yourself now part of the mountain.

Because that's also him like bazookaing Brad Pitt off the screen.

Like, God love Brad Pitt, but like everyone is coming out of that movie horny for but that's what's incredible about that movie is that brad pitts like unlocks his thing by being like i don't have to shoulder the weight of being the guy at the center which makes him interesting for the first time kind of helps him crack his movie star persona and then clooney is like i'm so ready to be the guy at the center The thing about this movie figures out about Clooney is that, and out of sight to some extent, is that his movie star persona increasingly is like, I'm one of the most handsome men who's ever lived, but also I can be like whatever persona I'm playing.

Like you would not expect me to be this handsome.

And he can, he can

subvert the wattage.

Like what is incredible about this character and this performance is that he has the confidence of I am George Clooney, I am Danny Ocean, and he's an idiot.

Like you talking about how bizarre but brilliant it was to cast.

Taturo as this Yokel.

At some point late in the rewatch last night, I was like, is this movie movie their sort of sideways Three Stooges thing?

Sure.

They're changing the power structure versus the

characteristics.

Because like, you know, the Three Stooges is like the intellectual, the angry, emasculated leader, and the idiot, right?

And this is like Clooney is kind of the curly, but has taken on the leadership role.

Toturo is the Moe and is even angrier because he's not leading the room.

But he's almost styled like Mo.

Yeah, for sure.

And like Taturo is so funny in this because anytime they cut to him, you're just like, he's so mad.

He looks so furious all the time.

And then like Tim Blake Nelson is a weird version of a curly where he just looks agog.

But Clooney nails so hard playing this sort of confusion of he can't quite get his head around what's going on, but he's so committed to his idea of I got the brains.

I'm leading this operation that he has to adjust on the fly really fast, which is always fun to watch him figure out.

it's so it's also so hard to play just smart enough to think you're smarter than you are and like actually be a little bit right blank he's not stupid he's kind of stupid and the cohens used to talk about their idiot trilogy with this intolerable cruelty and i guess burner after reading although hell caesar was always right like their promised third entry

um but he's not totally stupid he's got the gift of the gab

but anytime he uses the gift of the gab i feel like everyone's everyone's just kind of waiting for him to stop talking.

Like you never really see him charm that many people into what he wants.

I also love that the character is overwritten, that he keeps using these hundred dollar words in a way where people actually don't understand what he's saying.

His like his speech is so circular and like flowery and bizarre that it's combined with the speed at which he's delivering it.

He's not actually successfully connecting and communicating things to other people.

Yeah, he's trying to like reconnect with his ex-wife and just like unable to be sincere for a second.

He's just like trying to like establish his claim in a weird way, but like also in a charming way, it's fascinating.

You can just see why he shows up on set and they just fucking fall in love with this guy.

And are like, we can write for him forever.

This is our favorite type of character, and no one is better at playing this than him.

Maher.

Every time he wakes up in the movie.

Yeah.

Maher.

So funny.

Can I say about his hotness?

Yeah.

And how it stands out in a period piece, it made me have this thought of normally you see like an old Daguerreotype.

Those fuckers are busted.

Yeah.

And they've been, you know, for a Daguerreotte, you have to sit there for an hour.

It's probably hot.

They just got out of the mines.

You know, but it made me think like there were smoke shows walking around in those days.

In a weird way, I almost think this is the hottest clone he's ever been in a movie.

He He looks so

era.

It's the out-of-sight Three Kings.

Prettiness, just

actually in the biology of his life.

Yes.

But he's also just so charming in this while also being kind of unsavory.

Yeah.

It's a really well-calibrated performance.

As he said, he basically was just like, yes, you know, like he didn't even read the script.

He was just like, I know what you guys do and I want to do it.

He was born in Kentucky, as he will bring up a lot if you interview him.

Lived in Ohio for some of his life, but he did go basically go back to Kentucky and went to Northern Kentucky University.

He gave the script to his uncle Jack.

That's the best story.

It's such a great story, who I guess is more of a dad-in-the-wool Kentuckian.

Right.

He was like, I want to get the dialect right.

I want to send you the script.

And can you use a tape recorder and do all my dialogue so I can study your dialogue?

Because the Cohens are like, look, the character's kind of a hick.

We want you to have like a thick accent.

Yeah.

So Jack sends back the script written, you know, like read out into a tape recorder.

Yeah.

Says, well, George, I don't think people talk like that.

Like, which is fair.

He's probably reading the script.

Like, what the fuck is this?

And he threw the script away and was just using the tape recorder.

And the Cohens are like, why don't you say hell and damn when you're doing your lines?

And he realized that his

Baptist uncle Jack had excluded the hells and dams when dictating the script into the tape recorder.

Yes.

He rewrote the Cohen brothers.

That's Clooney's favorite thing to say, but also that's what he meant by, I don't think us people talk like that.

Yes.

I don't think his editorialization was, we wouldn't take the Lord's name in vain.

There would be no oaths.

Right.

Tim Blake Nelson.

I mean, he's definitely a guy, but I don't think he's ever been in like a big thing, like had a big role.

No, he popped up in little things.

I mean, he was in fucking This Is My Life is his first screen credit.

He had done some comedy.

He was on that fucking Fox sketch show with Jennifer Aniston and Julie Brown.

Was that called The Edge?

I think so.

Yeah.

Sounds good.

It was like a,

you know, a mad TV, in Living Color, also ran thing.

I think you're talking about the unnaturals.

Is that what it's called?

No, it's that.

That's the

ABC one.

Yeah.

Okay.

That was the Jeremy Renner show.

Yeah.

That's just not Holly of Fargo.

No, no, no, no, not that.

That was way, no.

I'm going to find this.

Yeah, please.

But he, um

yeah he was he was a fucking uh

hmm this is looking like it was he a natural shiobhan fallum paul paul fieg yeah

okay but then i think jennifer anston show is the edge and i was confusing them oh he was also on well he's only on one episode of house of buggin which was uh uh like a zamo's answer to in living color um but yeah he's like he's popping up and stuff He's got a larger role in heavyweights, but he was a classics major who then went to Juilliard, but was also writing his own stuff.

And at a certain point, I think he started to shift to like, I do character actor parts to pay the bills.

What I really want to do is make my films.

I'm a filmmaker first and foremost.

Right, because he makes O

the year after this.

But remember, had been shot much earlier and pushed back because of Columbine.

I think O was in the can.

and supposed to come out in 99 and then doesn't come out until two years later.

He becomes, he and his wife become friends with Joel and Fran through mutual friends.

And they have dinners together.

And it's mostly like sharing notes as filmmakers.

And his acting career has very much like throttled down in his own internal priority.

And then as he puts it, Ethan, Joel at dinner one night was like, we wrote a part for you.

You first send him the script being like, I need your advice on this based on the Odyssey.

And then they're like, we want you to play Delmar.

It's a straight offer.

They never audition him.

Nope.

It's the third lead.

He starts six weeks after rapping Oh.

Yeah.

And he at first is like, this is a mistake.

You shouldn't have me do this.

He was doing post-production on set.

They let him.

Yeah.

And,

you know,

Tim, like, no, he's great.

He's so fucking funny in this movie.

He's so fucking funny.

But it like, it unlocks him in a way.

It is that thing where he's like, he is so thoroughly trained as an actor.

His WTF episode's incredible.

Sure.

And you're just like, oh, it's easy to look at him.

And I think they're seeing him as as like the heir apparent to like fucking snits in the Buster Keaton movies or the one guy I always forget the name of who's got the great face in the fucking Preston Sturgis.

The Samarist?

No, the one who's sort of like owl-like and kind of pencil.

Look, what's important is he just knows how to do all this.

He's like perfect at dialects and physical comedy and singing and dancing and everything.

John Toturo, they told him you got to shave your head because they said when we do a movie with John, he always starts with the hair.

So, we figured we'd stitch him up on that one.

That's fine.

And then they basically show him a bunch of pictures of guys with bad teeth and are like, You're gonna have bad teeth.

So, again, I think offer like no auditions for these parts.

He's doing a lot of jaw work too.

Yes, uh, you know, who else did no, forget it.

What were you gonna say?

I was gonna make a Jawa joke, but I couldn't really figure out the way in.

I love those guys, they're great.

David,

okay, okay, I'll be very quiet.

Oh, I'm used to it.

Producer Ben is sleeping.

Oh,

Hazzy, Hazzy boy is

getting some

with multiple dashes.

What's he sleeping on?

He's sleeping on one of the new beds we got from Wayfair for the studio for our podcast naps.

But this is a big opportunity for us.

We get to do the first ad read for Wayfair on this podcast.

No, no, Griffin, you're clearly not listening to past recordings.

Ben did did a Wayfair ad for us recently.

You listen to past recordings?

Yeah, sometimes.

That's psycho behavior.

It is.

Look.

He did that when we were sleeping?

Look, apparently we need to talk about how when you hear the word game day,

you might not think Wayfair, but you should, because Wayfair is the best kept secret for incredible and affordable game day finds.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Absolutely.

And just try to, David, just, if you could please maintain it slightly quiet.

We don't have to go full whisper.

I just want to remind you that Haas is sleeping.

I mostly just think of Wayfair as a website where you can get basically anything.

Yeah, of course, but Wayfair is also the ideal place to get game day essentials, bigger selection, created collections, options for every budget/slash price point.

You want to make like a sort of man cake style.

Okay, fine.

Okay.

All right.

Sorry.

You know, Wayfair

stuff gets delivered really fast, hassle free.

The delivery is free.

For game day specifically, Griffin, you can think about things like recliners and TV stands, sure, or outdoor stuff like coolers and grills and patio heaters.

Like that's, you know, that's all the winter months.

David, you have like basically a football team worth of family at home.

You got a whole team to cheer up.

This is true.

You need cribs.

Your place must be lousy with cribs.

I do have fainting beds.

I have cribs.

Sconces?

Chaise lounges?

I'm low on sconces.

Maybe it's time to pick up a football.

This is the kind of thing that would make your home team cheer.

Look, I'm just going to say that Wayfair is your trusted destination for all things game day.

From coolers and grills to recliners and slow cookers.

Shop, save, and score

today at Wayfair.com.

That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com.

Wayfair, Everystyle, Every Home.

David, there's only one shame to this ad-rig.

Don't wake Hausy.

There's only one shame to this ad rig.

That I didn't find out about this in time before I already purchased coolers, grills, grills, folding chairs, patio heaters, recliners, barware, slow cookers, sports-themed decor merch for my favorite teams, and more.

If only I

Cleveland Browns, of course, Vante Mac, no matter what.

Okay, that's the end of the Abrie.

David, what?

This episode of Blank Check with with Griffin David podcast about philographies is brought to you by Booking.com.

Booking.

Yeah.

I mean, that's what I was about to say.

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God, I'm trying to think of anyone in my life, perhaps even in this room.

Ben, who's...

Like, what's an example of someone I know who maybe has a very particular set of devices?

Bringing me in and there's only one other person in the room.

There's one other person in the room right now.

This is so rude.

I sleep easy.

I'm definitely not a someone who insists on 800 thread count sheets.

No.

That's a that's a an example of a fussy person.

But people have different demands.

And you know what?

If you're traveling, that's your time to start making demands.

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a partner who's sleep light, rise early, or maybe, you know, like you just want someone who wants a pool or wants a view or I don't know.

Maybe any kind of demand.

I have Lynn and I need a room with some good soundproofing because I'm going to be doing some remote pod record.

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Maybe you're in Europe and you want to make sure that's very demanding to be in Europe.

You got air conditioning.

Well, I think of one person in particular, although it's really both of you.

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I need air conditioning if I'm in the North Pole.

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Booking.com is definitely the easiest way to find exactly what you're looking for like for me a non-negotiable is i need a gorgeous bathroom for selfies you do you love selfies as long as i got a good bathroom mirror for selfies i'm happy with everything else uh look they're again they did they're specifying like oh maybe you want a sauna or a hot top and i'm like sounds good to me yeah please can i check that for you you want one of those in the recording studio that'd be great you want to start you want to be i'll be in the sauna when we record i was gonna say you're you want to be the dalton Trumbull podcast.

You want to be Splish Splash.

You look good if I had a sauna and a cold plunge.

And while recording, I'm on mic, but you just were going back.

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$26 million budget, highest budget ever for them, even above Hudsucker.

That's wild.

And they have Working Title, Studio Canal, Touchstone, and Universal all chipping in.

So I guess that's how they get the money.

It also feels like, you know, George Cloney and an Odyssey adaptation feels sellable

in a way.

Yeah.

Yes.

Right.

Like it's on paper, it's wild that they got 26 million dollars to make this movie but i still think all those places are like 26 million for a george clooney movie sounds like a value right even if it's a weird one i agree shot on location in mississippi uh deacons is told roger deacons is told like we want it to feel like very hot very dry very dusty and deacons is like i've shot down there he shot passion fish that's like a big you know he's like it's going to be green it's going to be like lush you're shooting down there in this like verdant uh season and joel indeed reports that the mississippi location was greener than ireland and that is why the digital coloring stuff comes in because they need to turn the movie sepia essentially they try to do like a chemical process and it doesn't work and deacons is like hear me out i think we can try this this gets credited as the first like complete diet you know what it is right chicken run yeah the first complete movie that was digitally scanned because i did an article on this for vox which everyone can read called colors where did they go

um And the first movie that's completely digitally scanned is Pleasantville, but

they are doing it only for visual effects per second.

For the black and white stuff.

So this is the first one where they tweak everything.

They're just doing it to tweak the colors, and it's revolutionary in a way that has kind of ruined

filmmaking right now.

It's beautiful here.

It gives you so much control over every aspect of the frame.

And I think, right, it can drive people mad.

Every movie is basically manipulated this much now, but now it's manipulated in camera.

You're like watching it on a monitor and seeing different color styles.

What do I want it to look like?

And at this time, like they, they're filming it and Deacons is like, I think I can figure this out in post, which obviously he does.

But like, yeah, they are still filming it in a conventional color scheme that he's manipulated.

It's wild when you watch the behind the scenes footage and you're like, oh, those shirts were white.

That grass was green.

Like, it's, I can't imagine how weird it must have felt to be the actors in in this movie and like go to the fucking premiere as extreme as like Star Wars where you're like wow suddenly this doesn't look cheap when you put in the sound effects and the special effects like this movie just must have looked so different than their lived experience filming it sure and there was such a mood and a tone from the color palette which is so controlled but I do think now beyond the ability to manipulate it at the time Emily I also think now people shoot a lot of stuff as like let's just get the most simple version of the image and we can fuck with it later without having the forethought of, like, what are we capturing now and what are we going to change it into later?

And I think there's not the same kind of like control and continuity of like, we have a clear vision for a palette for this movie that we are using as a North Star.

What's funny to me is that the film is nominated for an Oscar for cinematography, like we acknowledge, but didn't win.

Deacons, of course, doesn't end up winning an Oscar until Blade Runner 2049, right?

Like, it's Gladiator win?

Traffic wins.

No, Crouching Tiger wins, which is a good-looking movie.

Yeah.

And yes, the other Traffic was not even nominated.

Traffic has the insane color scheme thing that is, in my opinion, a little bit.

I was like,

that you watch it now and you're like, oh, we're in Blue Land.

I forgot it's literally like Jolly Rancher land.

And it like invented the whole

Mexico is yellow thing that is like still a scourge.

We re-watched that for a podcast like it's the 2000s last year, and it invented modern prestige television.

That's so

by mistake.

In adapting prior prestige television.

That's funny about it.

Yeah.

It is not my favorite Soderbergh.

Not even close.

No.

I really like the Cheadle plot, which is the least heralded of the three plots.

I like the Del Toro stuff.

At the time, it was like my favorite movie.

And when I revisited it, I was like, I don't know.

Eric Brockovich

shoots it out of a cannon.

It's so much better.

And at the time, of course, that was not the thinking.

No, O-Brother loses.

Gladiator the Patriot, which did have, it did have a touch of the T.

It had a touch of the T.

Yeah.

And then, of course, everyone's favorite movie, Milena.

Right.

Which I think there was one thing that people thought was very well lensed in that film.

Yeah.

I don't know if you guys have heard of Monica Belucci.

Giving it a very good review.

He suggested that movie should win exactly two golden globes.

Two golden legs.

It's got great legs.

We just did a screening of Matrix Revolutions at Nighthawk.

We introduced it.

And Monica Belushi on a big screen is quite a thing.

Well, especially now when she's wearing the insane red dress that's just sort of like pushing her boobs together in the most ridiculous way.

And she's like, he'll die for love.

He loves you.

This is so good.

Seeing her one scene on the big screen, I was like, there's a real argument for her being the greatest cleavage actress of all time.

I'm not saying she's the largest-breasted woman ever to be in movies, but I think her work in the field of cleavage is kind of unparalleled.

So you're just letting him keep it.

I'm sorry, I was just quoting Roger Ebert there.

Go on.

Deacons says, I think part of the reason I lost, and partly, I'm sure, you know, Crouching Tiger was a big thing, but is that a lot of cinematographers were like, oh, but, you know,

he used a computer.

It doesn't count.

Like, and now, of course, everybody does that.

And by like, avatar winning is kind of the big moment.

And now it feels like everything is like life of pie, all these parties that are.

Yeah.

Avatar winning is such a strange one and feels like it's wild that it it took that long for a digital movie to win and also it feels like that's the type of win that they don't usually do that early but i remember the year before that people were like well could wally get nominated yeah because they like ran a serious campaign of like no we think about the cinematography

yeah and then they do the same thing with fucking how to train your dragon right

um

so the music in this film of course ton burnette they had worked with him on big lubowski a little bit uh and that's how they were introduced to him going back to the dossier Yeah.

But

here it's like they're working with him from the start of production.

He's curating the music.

He's finding all these major stars already, like Alison Krauss and Louis Harris.

He's into the film, so apparently it's not something you can sort of just like choose in the edit.

Right.

And

most of the stuff,

like

Big Rock Handing Mountain, the session recordings.

What is this quote?

The stuff that was redone and produced produced by T-Bone is all featured essentially live.

It's music you see performed in the music itself.

Okay, that's interesting.

Obviously, like Clooney and the Soggy Bottom Boys are being dubbed.

That is, I can tell you the names of the Dan Tominsky, Pat Enright, and Harley Allen.

This movie, for my money, has some of the best lip-sync acting ever.

It's very good.

They oversell it in a way that makes it go down more smoothly, in my opinion, where it's like, it's clear that Clooney isn't singing but he's making so many faces now he was singing live right like he sang it on set that's not his voice i should say no i know i know yeah yeah he did it is he is shower singing yes in like such a like compelling way

everyone everyone who sings on screen who isn't a musician by trade is

acting the role of singing too hard in a way that creates a continuity for me that doesn't make me bump out of their that's clearly not their voice he is playing a man who is pretending to be a musician who thinks this is what musicians are like like he nails that yep yep they also make a really smart choice which is mostly framing that sequence with his mouth obstructed behind this big fucking can yes and so he's doing all this neck and eye acting and shit but you're not getting caught up on like oh the lips are a second off right um of course clooney loves to self-deprecate and is like i know my aunt is this famous singer and i tried to sing but i was so bad at it yeah um

Did Win Album of the Year, as we say.

It's the fourth soundtrack to win that award.

Saturday Night Fever one.

Correct.

As did The Bodyguard.

And the third is Henry Mancini's soundtrack for the television series Peter Gunn in 1959.

I think we can discard that one.

But the other two examples

are movies.

with soundtracks that also became phenomenons in their awful.

You're right that, right.

Oh, Brother is not a hit on the same level as those two other movies, but it is three examples of movies where the soundtrack is maybe more famous than the movie in a way.

Yeah.

Right.

And they all went a zillion times platinum or whatever.

Of course, the cow is digital.

I think this is a big movie for them, kind of

unlocking a sneaky amount of digital work.

And obviously, the DI is the most apparent version of that.

But all of their movies after this have more digital effects than you would imagine, which they're really good at doing invisibly.

You know, a lot of it's fucking like landscape changing.

Yeah.

I'm glad they didn't shoot cows.

You are not even allowed to bring cows near a moving vehicle in a movie because it would startle them.

Right.

So, of course, it had to be, you know, fake cow.

The frog, Ethan notes that people really hate the frog squishing scene.

Yeah, it's gross.

But he loves it.

I don't write to do frog squishing, he says.

It's funny that Goodman says these things give you warts and then squeezes it as hard as he can in his hand.

I understand spiteful, but I'm like, man, you're like bruising for warts there

so uh film premiered at uh the 2000 can film festival normal and regular guy uh luc vesson was the chair of that year's festival okay but won the palm the pomdor was some girl he saw walking by

i give the palm d'or to 15 year olds

the idea

no the palm went to dancer in the dark uh which is a highly controversial choice yeah uh but is a fairly good choice um in that that an enduring movie and a special movie.

It's not my favorite.

I find it to be a tad sad.

Have you guys noticed this?

The film Yi Yi was in competition, which is your favorite one.

It was basically the best movie I ever made.

It won Best Director.

Okay.

Best screenplay went to Nurse Betty.

Remember Nurse Betty?

I loved Nurse Betty.

I've never revisited it.

At the time, I was like, I have also never revisited it.

I have no idea how that holds up at all.

Yes.

So much of Neil LaButte's work has held up normally.

One day I will program

a MetroGraph series of Greg Kinnear the villain, and that will be in there, along with Mystery Men and Loser and like a million other someone like you.

Yeah.

Best actress went to Bjork.

Best actor went to some sort of rando called Tony Lung for some unI've never heard of this movie, In the Mood for Love.

I'm just thinking it was an insane

fuck, yeah.

And so Obrother was ignored because I'm sure the Kanjer was like,

I don't understand.

It didn't even win most soggy-bottomed boys, which is truly kind of insulting.

Um, Disney, I guess, is releasing it domestically.

Uh, Joe Roth, uh, who is a somewhat iconic 90s head of Disney, had just stepped down.

People who are coming in are shown the movie, and they're just silent.

Apparently, they're just like, What the fuck is this?

Is this Decooker or I guess?

Yeah, I don't know.

Uh, and

uh, so they were released limited, yeah, uh, in like Christmas time, which is not a, that doesn't make any sense.

No.

But then the soundtrack starts to kick off.

So it has a crazy run, like a really good multiplier.

It makes $45 million domestic.

And basically runs through the end of the spring.

Yeah.

Like it never made more than like $3 million in a weekend.

It just chugged along.

This is this is a thing that Hollywood often finds out is you make a movie that's like set in like Red State America and it takes a while, but it'll catch on and keep playing and keep going.

Especially back then.

this is a different thing, but like Breaking Bad stayed on the air because of that.

It's like, oh, we're getting watched in these places that aren't watching anything else.

Also, mind you, I mean, we'll get to it, and I might be getting my numbers a little off here, but like True Create opens like something to 36 and then ends up at like 170 domestic.

It's sort of like a similar thing, a maximized version of it.

Right, like that was their biggest opening ever, and then also their biggest multiplier ever.

Um, so O Brother Arthur

begins with um

a chain gang singing O Lazarus.

Yes.

An old sort of spiritual.

It's such a cool opening.

I love the opening of this movie before they're running with the, you know, like just the sort of slow fade up and the atmosphere.

And the title cards.

It's really just a prologue that kind of hasn't, it's just setting the mood in a way that is eerie.

It's eerier than the film that follows.

Here's a take that.

There are parts of this movie that are very eerie.

Yeah, for sure.

Like the sirens.

I think this is what blew my mind as a child, where I was like, how can a movie be this funny?

Look this good,

have the craft of like a blockbuster action film in its precision, and also have scenes that are like genuinely sad, unsettling, like spooky.

The Ethan Cohen tone management thing in this movie is so insane to me.

And part of it is that it is picaresque, which I'm just kind of a slut for these sorts of structures.

But I also think it handles the transition between these wildly different moods and scenes incredibly well.

Everything about Ulysses and Penelope is so funny, but also like you buy their relationship that he cares.

It's like well done

romantic screwball stuff.

It's like it all works on all those levels at the same time.

But this absolutely feels like a drama opening.

It does not feel like something that should be able to transition into like slapstick Pratfall comedy within 30 seconds.

Yeah.

Which it does.

I also, I can't quite crack this take, but there's something to me about the chain yang at the beginning, mostly being

African-American men singing like traditional songs before we transition to our white leads, who then become incredibly successful singing old-timey music.

Occasionally, people think they are, you know, black.

Mispresenting, mischaracterizing.

Sort of by mistake.

Right.

And then this movie has.

Although, of course, one of the Soggy Bottom Boys is black.

And I assume maybe the two

fake members might be part of it too.

We don't know.

And his character is referencing Robert Johnson, of course, that famous legend mythology

is like the fourth lead of this movie i mean he's like the the most recurring character chris thomas king he's so good musician i love his hair his look is crazy he's incredible yeah the the obviously the importance of this film soundtrack but also there's something in it i can't quite totally

If you ask the Cohens, I feel like they'd be like, they'd say nothing.

I was like close to a thesis that I couldn't quite crack while watching this about something about like this shift in Americana music of white Americans understanding how to pull things and popularize them.

I think so.

Which is a cycle that then repeats for the rest of time.

I think there is this thing that when white people make a story set in this time period, especially in the South,

they struggle with how to ignore about white characters.

They struggle with how to acknowledge the systemic racism of the time.

especially in like a comedy.

And this movie, I think, finds, threads the needle pretty well for the most part.

I agree with you.

And it is a thing they get dinged for a lot, is how predominantly white their movies are.

Yeah.

Sure.

Especially those in the era, I feel like, where they got a lot of questions about it.

Yeah, and even like,

you know, like the Merlin Wayne's character in Lady Killers is not the best.

You know, it's like an example of being like, maybe they should only write white people if this is how they write black parts.

But this movie, I think, comes close to doing it really well.

There's something that they're not overstating.

It is mostly using the black characters as set dressing outside of Tommy Johnson, but it also is

talking about the ways that like the white characters can get away with certain things.

That's the thing for me.

And I think that's what is interesting about the opening to me is that you're starting in this sort of like gallows tone, right?

Of like men who feel like they have no way out singing songs out of desperation.

And then we're so quickly going to three funny guys

who like can experience physical violence like Wiley Coyote, will always recover from it, right?

Can like fall off the back of a moving train and get hit with like fucking logs and shit.

And

they can get out.

They can get out.

They can sort of like shake hands, win over the public,

turn these songs into something poppier and more fun and more upbeat.

A song that is about sadness and convert it into something that like

removes the

the trauma from which it was bred in a way that makes it more palatable and like then is weaponized by a fucking politician.

Like, there's something there.

Some of it is also coasting off the real history of country music, which is poor white people and poor black people came up with this form of music.

And Everett is literally, uh, I believe he's a lawyer.

Like, he's like, someone who is, it's, there's a class element too that really helps, I think.

Yes.

But he's a fake lawyer.

Right.

And like his ability to sort of like smooth talk people just enough.

Yeah.

But yeah, it's something about, and I think it's why the soundtrack for this click so much because it's so in conversation with something.

It is so aware of its own history in a weird way, where it's just like all of American music comes out of like slave songs, prison songs, spirituals.

Yeah.

You know, and everything descends from.

And I think some of that must be T-Bone Burnett's influence because he knows this history.

Yes.

I do just want to add as well that I think there there also is influence from Irish and Scottish and English folk music a lot of folks emigrated to the Appalachia and also I think had a big impact as well and country blues Americana music did you see Sinners Ben

I didn't and it's summer

digs into that a lot in a way I think you'd find really interesting.

I was going to say, there's a lot of vampire music in this movie.

Yes, but that's a very good point.

All I will say is that while watching this movie, I turned to my wife and I said, just FYI,

when I'm sometime in my 40s, it's coming, I'm going to have a year where I get way too interested in blues music and start buying records and reading books and shit.

Your ass is going to have a 78 fucking play.

Exactly.

Like I watch like a weird, boring documentary.

Your daughter's going to be 10 and so embarrassed by you.

Exactly.

It just feels like something dads do where they're like, there's nothing better than the blues.

You know, I'm just, I'm, I'm tasting it already.

Like, I I watch anyone play the blues, and the Sinners has so much of it, right?

And you're just like, this is the best shit.

It's just a guy and his feelings and a guitar.

Not only that, but you watch it and you're like, man, it'd be really cool to know a lot about this.

Exactly.

It'd be really cool to know.

It's cool in a way that's not cool.

That makes everyone roll their eyes.

Yes, exactly.

When you listen to that sound, the crackling of old records, it sounds like you're listening to a fucking ghost.

It's also spooky and fuckative.

It's so cool.

And there's guys where it's like they were never recorded but like people you know oral history is like no one was ever better than mr

and you're like yeah he must have sounded like a you know freight train or whatever it's the best yeah this movie also has a fascinating balance of like right very modern clean present day recordings of professional modern singers doing these old standards And then also like Big Rock Candy Mountain sounding like it was a record pressed on a piece of paper.

And when you talk about the tonal shifts, the music is key to that, which is, I think, why the soundtrack took off so much.

Because you go from O Lazarus to

Big Rock Candy Mountain, and it's a switches on a dime.

And you do have the credits helping because credits are always changing tone.

But you have this prologue, then you have the credits, which is like intercutting with the song, the title cards that are very old-fashioned, and then them sort of on the run.

And you're very quickly getting into like physical hijinks, these guys being chained together, not being able to get out.

And then they go to Del Mars

Brothers Place.

There's the great gag on the train, which is always when I'm like, oh, I love this.

Clooney getting dragged out of the train is very funny.

And then they,

right, then they go to the brothers' house and then they get baptized.

Brother's great.

Love that guy.

Frank Collison.

Yeah.

Who's in, we've covered him a fair amount.

He's in a bunch of Shyamalan movies.

Hog Wallop.

He's on Twin Peaks.

Yes.

There's another director he works with a lot i was trying to remember great face yes one of the great faces but he's not his brother he's his kin i think he's cousin i think he's a cousin yeah sorry yeah we gotta shout out the little rap scallions i love that kid

i curse your name his wife has r-u-n-o-f-t

a thing that the kid keeps misrepeating yeah yeah

um but he frees them from the shackles that this is the place where i'm always reminded that they are clearly just going off a memory of the Odyssey because they're like, I think there's pigs in there.

Right, right, right.

Which I love that like, I think sometimes when these sort of like modernization adaptations get too schematic, the logic starts falling apart even faster when you're worried too much about like, how do I translate every single element?

onto a comparable thing in a different place and a different time.

It helps that they're kind of just like picking and choosing.

And when you get to Goodman, you're like, oh, right, there was a Cyclops.

This is the Cyclops.

Yes.

I don't care about every single detail being transmuted.

No,

it is not even remotely right, like at making that effort.

And obviously,

Ulysses is not coming from Everett.

It's not coming from a war.

He's coming from prison.

But there's just little stuff.

Yeah, there's little Easter eggs.

They mentioned Babylon at some point.

The siren stuff.

Obviously, he needs to get his wife is going to remarry and he's got to get back before she does his own.

It takes us a while to know that he's telling them he has a treasure of $1.2 million that they have to go find.

He knocked over a bank car or whatever.

Yes.

And that's why he was in jail.

Pappy's loosely the king, but also kind of Zeus.

Like it's this thing of, oh, they have like, they kind of have a memory of this.

And then also they probably just like looked up a character name list and dropped him in there.

Right.

There's a different Pappy O'Daniel who had a different first name that existed at the same time.

Oh, the the

his name in the movie, like Menelaus.

Somebody's name, Menelaus.

His name is Menelaus.

Yes.

Which we're at the King of Troy, right?

Who is that?

Who does Brian Cox play in Troy?

Gotta look it up.

I just remember that movie, you know, obviously got Brad Pitt, you know, stunting on people.

Yeah.

But a lot of it is like Brian Cox, Brendan Gleeson, Sean being all, you know, Peter O'Toole.

It's got guys.

All these gravelly guys in togas with like beards going like,

the purse of that movie is so bizarre.

Brian Cox is Agamemnon and Brendan Gleason is Menelaus.

Sparta, not Troy.

Charles Durning, one of my favorite actors of all time.

Yeah.

This movie.

I was going to say, this movie arguably has like three of my 10 favorite screen actors.

So Holly Hunter and John Goodman?

Yeah, I mean, Hunter and Derning are absolutely my top 10.

If Goodman isn't, he's very close.

And Goodman is just like showing up knowing exactly what to do, giving you just enough.

Holly Hunter is just doing like this real fun kind of like skill piece exercise.

As I bet you couldn't think someone could talk faster than Clooney.

Derning is given like a fucking five-course meal to play here.

He keeps coming back.

I love that it's like a parallel narrative that is like 30% of the movie.

Yeah.

He keeps sort of like overlapping with them and crossing with them, but never like too directly interacting with them until the end.

But we spend time with him and his guys.

This movie's like structured as a series of triangles that Clooney is a point in all of them.

Yes.

Which is a really fascinating choice to me.

But you're almost watching it going, like, why are they spending this much time on this guy and his like campaign struggles and whatever?

But in the structure of it, they let Derning do everything he's good at doing.

Like, what I love about Charles Derning is that he is such a specific guy.

He is not someone who can transform, right?

He's not someone who can disappear.

And yet, there is like a bizarrely wide array of applications for him and specific skills he has.

And usually, people focus in on one.

And this is like they let him be charming, they let him be funny, they let him dance, they let him sing, they let him be scary, like genuinely menacing.

They let him be kind of like comedically gruff.

It's so good.

There is a non-zero chance, though, that the Cohns just heard there was a man named Pappy who had a flower-based radio show.

Like, that's we've got to work with that.

That probably amused them quite a lot.

Who's the

Satan?

No, that's Satanovon Parkin.

parking i know that uh love that guy oh the rival homer stokes no him that's uh his name is wayne devall wayne devalued robert devall's uh cousin he's good he's he's one of those guys who's in like a bajillion things and you know little roles or whatever um no uh pappy's got the son right and then he's got the two kind of advisors one of them is the not counting the mezzanine guy that that's what's

the eyebrows guy yeah what's his name that guy i'm gonna figure it out okay yeah um i was just trying to remember that that guy's name because I love that guy's face.

Yes, he's incredible.

I'll find out.

But anyway, so okay, what's going on in O Brother War?

They get baptized.

Yes.

You introduced Tommy pretty quickly.

It's like, but like, it's like, okay, so they're introduced to Tommy before the baptize, the baptism.

No, right after.

Are you sure?

I'm not sure, but I can't remember.

You also, you set up Daniel Van Bargen pretty quickly.

Yeah, he's when they're in the bar.

Because you see him before, right?

Right with the tot.

They're with the dog.

Damn, we're in a tight spot of course i feel like it was so remarked on but they break the rule of three he says damn we're in a tight spot four times the fourth time is so funny yes um there's a lot of like them futzing with things like with this hair to add yes but daniel von bargain as the sheriff is playing the poseidon role in the odyssey but he's also clearly satan himself he is satan himself as much as uh papio daniels called menelius but he's clearly uh zeus if you're going by the odyssey yeah in that he sort of comes and fixes stuff at the end.

But I feel like through the Hogs Wallop, you're getting like the sense of, okay, the Depression is underway.

Yes.

Through the baptism, you're like, right, this kind of like big tent revival shit is happening, you know, like this kind of new American Christianity stuff is happening.

The irony of this movie being like, right,

this is a bad time.

And at the end, Clooney is so confident that this is the beginning of a bright future for the American South.

You know, that like this is going to wash away all our problems and reset.

And like, it's toward the end of the Depression.

So it is, you know, it is, and the, the, the, the, they're riffing on the Tennessee Valley Authority and things, like, in terms of the, the history of it.

So it is, he's not, not wrong, but also.

Yes.

Um.

They get baptized and then yes, they pick up Tommy.

The baptism does an interesting thing technically that I think is probably a mix of the recording and then live singing, which is as you move move past the people being baptized, you hear specific voices pull up in the soundtrack in a way that like, I'm not entirely sure how they did, but I was struck by that.

I mean, once again, unsurprisingly,

skip leave say, on fucking fire.

Yes.

Big boy.

Yeah.

On those ones and zeros.

Yeah.

So.

They need money.

So, right, once they have Tommy, that's when they go to the radio station to record as the Soggy Bottom Boys.

It's never really remarked on why they are so good at music.

Yes.

Because they're not good at anything else ever.

I mean, right?

They have no other skill, but I guess the muse sings through them, right?

The muse just, it just channels through them.

I think that's part of it, but isn't also the implication that it's like, right, they were fucking incarcerated.

They were in a chain gang.

They were like...

forced to sing all the time and study other people.

You know, they like got it from osmosis a little bit.

Right.

I have a question about the song, and I should know this, but was that

written for the movie, or is that a pre-existing song?

It is a pre-existing song, okay?

Yeah, right.

Do you know anything about it?

I can look it up.

I don't.

It's

a very old.

Yeah, traditional.

It rips.

It really is.

It's pretty good.

You know, the song is like highlighted in the trailer.

And I even remember seeing the trailer for this movie and being like, I gotta buy this soundtrack.

It

was titled Farewell Song in a songbook dated to around 1913.

It got its current title in 1928.

It's had many, you know, sort of

versions.

Bob Dylan's recorded a version over the years.

Joan Baez.

A lot of versions are sad.

Right.

And this one is more up.

This is sort of the pop version of it.

I do.

It's supposedly maybe it's from this guy, Dick Burnett, who is like a partially blind fiddle player, and it might be about him, but they're, you know, we're not sure.

In this era where you basically had to buy an entire album if you wanted one song,

don't you think it was just like the fucking rocket power of this thing was like, I guess I I need that soundtrack.

Obviously, the music's great for out.

I think so, because the soundtrack does have a lot of right, not, it has the spirituals and it has these like weird, creepy numbers that are awesome, but it's not, you know, put it on it.

I think the surprise for people is that when they bought it for this song, that then they were like, this plays really well as an album.

This feels like a classic, you're riding in a friend's car.

Yes.

And like, this album's on.

You're like, what is this?

Exactly.

You know, like, because it's impact being outsized beyond the movie feels like that word of mouth.

As being a blockbuster car album.

It really feels like this was a thing that like people were buying at Starbucks, right?

Along with their Nora Jones album, propelled by that one song that's really fun and punchy.

And then you're like, fuck, this is just kind of good music to live my life to.

It's just crazy that we're like 17 listening to this.

This is the era of Starbucks albums pulling off upsets at the Grammys, too.

They're just winning every year.

Like, yeah.

Enya, we just mentioned.

Yeah.

Love Enya.

She lives in a castle.

she does live in a castle cool lady that is so cool

ben what's up griff this is an ad break yeah and i'm just i'm this isn't a humble brag it's just a fact of the matter despite you being on mic oftentimes when sponsors buy ads based on this podcast the big thing they want is personal host endorsement right They love if they get a little bonus ben on the ad read, but technically, that's not what they're looking for.

But But something very different is happening right now.

That's true.

We had a sponsor come in and say, we are looking for the coveted Ben Hosley endorsement.

This is laser targeted.

The product.

We have a copy that asks, is the product a porch movie?

It certainly is.

And what is today's episode sponsored by?

The Toxic Avenger.

The new Toxic Avenger movie is coming to theaters August 29th.

Macon Blair's remake of

reimagining, whatever.

A reboot of the Toxic Avenger.

Now, David and I have not gotten to it yet, but they sent you a screener link.

Yeah, I'm going to see it.

We're excited to see it.

But, Ben, you texted us last night.

This fucking rules.

It fucks.

It honks.

Yeah.

It's so great.

Let me read you the cast list here in billing orders, they asked, which I really appreciate.

Peter Dinklage, Jacob Tremblay, Tremblay, Taylor Page, with Elijah Wood, and Kevin Bacon.

Tremblay is Toxie's son.

His stepson.

His stepson.

Okay.

Wade Goose.

Yes.

Great name.

Give us the takes.

We haven't heard of them yet.

Okay.

You got fucking Dinkledge is fantastic.

He's Toxie.

He plays it with so much heart.

It's such a lovely performance.

Bacon is in the pocket too, man.

He's the bad guy.

He's the bad guy.

There's a lot of him shirtless.

Okay.

Looking like a snack.

David sizzling.

Yep.

And then Elijah Wood plays like a dang-ass freak.

He certainly does.

He's having a lot of fun.

Tell us some things you liked about the movie.

Okay, well, I'm a Jersey guy.

I just got to say, the original movie was shot in the town where I went to high school.

Trump.

Yes.

Yes, that's right.

The original film.

Yep.

I grew up watching toxic and trauma movies on porches with my sleazy and sticky friends.

It informed so much of my sensibility.

Your friends like Junkyard Dog and Headbanger.

Yeah, exactly.

Making Toxic Crusader jokes.

And so when I heard that they were doing this new installment, I was really emotionally invested.

It was in limbo for a while before our friends at Cineverse rescued it and are now releasing it uncut.

But I feel like there have been years of you being very excited at the prospect, but also a little weary.

They're playing with fire here.

Yeah, it's just something that means a lot to me.

And they knocked it out of the fucking park.

Okay.

It somehow really captured.

that sensibility, that sense of humor, even just that like lo-fi, scrappy kind of nature that's inherent in in all of the trauma movies and the original toxy movies and they have like updated and in this way that it was just i was so pleased with it it's gooey

sufficiently gooey tons of blood tons of goo

uh great action it's really fucking funny it just it it hits all of the sensibilities that you would want in an updated version.

Cinniverse last year released Terrifier 3 Unrated.

Yeah.

Big risk for them there.

I feel like it's a very, very intense movie.

And one huge hit.

More interesting, yeah, theatrical box office phenomenons the last five years.

Want to make that happen again here?

Tickets are on sale right now.

Advanced sales really matter for movies like this.

So if y'all were planning on seeing Toxic Avenger, go ahead and buy those tickets.

Please go to toxicavenger.com slash blank check to get your tickets.

Blank check, one word.

In theaters, August 29th.

Yep.

And Ben, it just says here in the copy wants to call out that elijah wood plays a weird little guy who says summon the nuts can you tell us anything about that moment without spoiling it summon the nuts is in reference to a

psychotic new metal band hell yeah who are also mercenaries cool and drive a van

with a skeleton giving two fingies up on the grill.

And that's all I'll say.

Okay.

And they are the most dang-ass freaks of dang-ass freaks.

I'm excited to see it.

And your endorsement, I think, carries more weight than anyone else's in the world on this list.

Seriously, get your tickets now.

Go to toxicadvenger.com/slash blank check.

Do it.

Do it.

Hey, dude, the song.

Great.

He's so funny.

They sing in a can.

They sing in the can.

There's also, there's the push cart man, the blind sort of seer who predicts everything that's going to happen in the movie.

Yeah.

And they immediately dismiss him.

But that is like a haunting scene.

That is like a weirdly eerie scene coming in between a chain gang and like physical nonsense.

Yeah.

And like Stephen Rutznot is a comical version of kind of a weird, creepy guy, but he is definitely also playing that element of kind of a creepiness.

And it's the Odyssey.

They're always, everyone's always like blind or, you know, there's always something up with everybody everybody they come across.

Okay, so they're big.

After this is the babyface Nelson stuff.

Stuff I remember hitting really hard at the time.

And, you know, Bottolucho was kid.

Should we have a Bottolucho corner?

Was it Time?

He's the one of two actors to win an Emmy for the practice.

The forgotten.

Tyne Daly is the other?

No,

Cameron Mannheim.

Tyne Daly wasn't on the practice.

I made that up.

She's on Judging Amy.

Yeah.

She was so good on Judging Amy.

What are you talking about, Dave?

The fuck am I talking about?

Right, Cameron Mannheim.

But that was the thing.

It's like, that's the Cameron Mannheim and Michael Battalucho were so hot on the practice for like one year, two years.

Battalucho was an upset over Steve Harris, who everyone was like, he's going to be nominated in the same category.

But yeah, right.

Yeah.

And then I feel like the practice, it like hit 1999.

Everyone was like, we like the West Wing and the Sopranos now.

Like the practice feels, you know, famously the practice.

The practice beat season one of the Sopranos in drama, but then like all the actors from the Sopranos, like a couple of the actors from the Sopranos, won.

I think, well, you know what?

What?

I think I can do it.

Ditching Zoo and My Steep Dive, but you guys have to see Eddington.

I think I can do it off the top of my head.

I want to see if we can do it off the top of your head.

The practice win over The Sopranos is, of course, one of the most insane.

Like, what were they thinking?

It had won the year before over not the Sopranos.

So it was season two of The Practice, I think.

People don't remember the practice.

It was, it was Dark Alley McBeal.

It was David E.

Kelly had the hottest legal show in both comedy and drama.

The famous David E.

Kelly thing of, I'm going to do a show that's serious and real.

And by season three, it's bonkers.

And Michael Emerson's playing a serial killer who dresses as a nun.

And you're like, oh, great.

It's also at that point in time, he was such a celebrity, like creator, showrunner, in a way that wasn't really.

There were not many like him.

And I always fall into the trap of being like, yeah, and I guess he kind of receded, right?

And you're like, man, works more than ever.

He's just not the headline on the shows in the way he used to be.

He's still working for sure.

He also, you know, married Michelle Pfeiffer, which at that peak of TV was just like, this guy also gets to, I feel like there was a weekend update joke about like, dude, you're married to Michelle Pfeiffer.

Why are you working so much?

Fair question.

Spend more time at home.

Ed1 actress.

Ed1 actress.

Dennis Friends wins actor.

Friends wins, I believe, his fourth and final Emmy

for lead actor, correct?

And practice one series.

I don't remember who one's supporting.

I've been trying to

in drama.

Do you you want to know?

I would love to know.

Okay, well, it's, oh, man, this is crazy.

Battalucho and Holland Taylor for the practice.

There we go.

So Mannheim must have won the year before.

Yeah.

Or the year after or whatever.

And again, like, Holland Taylor in the practice, who I'm sorry, I love Holland Taylor, but please get the fuck out of here, beats Nancy Marchand in the Sopranos.

Yes.

Which is fucking crazy.

Her final chance.

Yeah.

I mean, I think she was nominated for CGI.

But season one is when she's like throwing fastballs.

Yeah, they're also not going to give her a fucking posthumous Emmy for the CGI episode.

Well, that's season three.

They should.

That's

wild.

She's in one and two.

By two, I think they have a slightly less, they're not quite sure what to do with that character.

By two, they know she's dying.

And they're like, we can't work with her as much.

Right.

Yeah.

And like in one, obviously the Tony, you know,

Livia thing is like the engine of the show more.

Yeah, God, what a weird era.

Cause it's like the practice NYPD Blue, these kinds of like robust network dramas that were good, but were still like 22-episode, like episode, you know, like case of the week stuff.

I don't know.

Yeah.

And then, like, yeah, it all goes away.

Guys, want to talk about this more?

Okay, fine.

Oh, brother, where are it though?

All right.

What's going on in this?

Yeah.

The Patalucho stuff.

I don't know.

You like him?

You like Batalucho?

I do.

He's like a real guy.

Maybe Facebook is a real guy.

Who's got this inferiority complex about not being seen as a big tucker?

And he looked like that.

He had a little hat.

Yeah.

It was so cool that they were bank robbers.

Well, okay, Ben.

Yes, sure.

Yeah.

That's a great era.

Ben raises a great point.

I also love the bit of him pulling up and asking for directions.

The police cars coming from a distance.

He's like, money getting the car.

Ben being oblivious.

And money is just flying out of the car.

And Tim Blake Nelson is doing such good work of like trying to catch the dollar bills as if it's like a miracle.

But he's such an innocent that he's like going to give it back.

He's just a gog all the time at everything happening.

Yeah.

I like that good scene where Tommy plays for them again after the recording by the fire and they all talk about what they're going going to do with their money.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I like that scene too.

Ben, I got to know who your 1930s bank robber persona is.

Frank Roose is going to open a restaurant and he's going to wear a tuxedo.

I mean, no matter what, I'm talking like this.

Nah.

Okay.

For sure.

Good.

Yep.

But then will anyone know what you want?

You like walk into the bank and you're like, meh.

And everyone's like, huh?

I think that's enough because it's such an established thing that everyone knows.

Yep, this is a robbery.

Right.

But my persona, i think i would be fucking dressed to the nines okay you know like just a really well-tailored suit big old hat fancy benny hosley fancy benny or benny the suit benny the suit yes gentleman man yeah yeah yeah yeah damn this is good i wouldn't rob any banks personally seems stressful I might go more for the Taturo, I want to open a big restaurant and wear a tuxedo every day vibe.

You're trying to find something.

Yeah, I was just getting through.

You know what I like about the Battle Lucho sequence?

Yes.

They make it out and then he plays the deep cold sadness at the fire after

the calm down.

It's hours later, and they're sort of like, what's up with him?

It's like this thing.

It goes from Everett.

Diagnoses him.

He's like, when the highs are high, you know, yeah.

But also that they like clock that it's not just that like

when he's responding in the bank, it's this sort of like impotent rage, right?

It's just this sort of like knee-jerk retaliation to the idea of not being taken seriously.

And then like later at night, this guy's just sad.

It's not like he's still fuming about like, they called me babyface.

There's like a deep emptiness inside of him.

Brian Reddy is the name of the guy we are trying to do.

Hell yeah.

Who's just one of those guys that's in two billion things?

Including an episode of the practice.

You get to

the information that the soggy bottom boys are becoming a hit.

That Stephen Arut doesn't have any info on them.

Right.

right.

Now, they, is it that part, this part where the newspaper, they're eating the pie?

Yes.

Is that this section?

It's look, it's all good comedies should have at least one instance of people stealing a hot pie.

A silly pie?

Absolutely.

I, as a kid watching Looney Tunes, was convinced that adulthood, a big part of it, was stealing pies off of windows.

Right, which is what you only get to do when you grow up.

You make the pie, and then there's that dangerous part where you're like, like, it has to go on the windows.

It has to.

And it's almost understood.

It's going to cool elsewhere.

And nowhere else.

But it's understood that also you might lose a pie.

Thieving children roam the backyards of America.

And tasty smell lines are going to reach all the way

to the nearest rap scallions.

We're living in a time when we're bringing back too much of the Great Depression era, but we do need to bring back pies cooling in window cells.

This is the only part of Make America Great Again I agree with.

We lost some key element of greatness in our cultural identity the second we closed our windows and let pies cool indoors.

Um, and that was a big part of Trump's uh campaign last year, it really was.

He brought it up all the time.

Put him back on the stove that, and that, and Paul, or that and Arnold Paul.

Yeah,

Joey and I were doing a whole thing because you know, Maria Hill dies in Secret Invasion, Kobe Smolders, they just shot her, right?

You know, like no one remembers this, obviously, because that's been like memory hold, yeah, but there was some tweet that was like she fucking died like two, you know, two years ago.

And Joey just started doing like Trump being like, wonderful woman, not too tough on the ass, folks.

Maria Hill, we lost a great one.

Biden let scrolls into our country, you know, just scrolls.

Trump talking about random shit that isn't real

is still funny.

The Trump comedy nerd account, which I loved so much.

Yep.

And would tweet that kind of thing about like.

Twitter like Seth Simon tweets.

Yes.

Yes.

But like experimenting, Mitch Hurwitz tried to reinvent the wheel with season four.

And Netflix made him recut it chronologically like a dog.

Like shit like that.

Never not.

It's just unfortunate.

I hate that he lives in the world.

He's a bad person.

Bad person.

But it's funny to imagine talking about scrolls.

It is.

We hate the scrolls, folks.

I'm going to get the scrolls out.

Biden let the scrolls in.

They were fighting the cree for a long time.

Border porous scrolls coming in.

The siren sequence is next where they get turned into uh, they think Pete gets turned into a frog.

Yes, a toad, a toad, a horny toad.

They're tempted by fornication.

Another thing, when I was a kid, I was pretty sure that I would be regularly drinking out of a jug with three X's labeled on it.

I've still never done it.

You would like go to the store, and that would be on a high shelf.

Yep, yep.

This whole movie is like Ben's Pinterest board.

You mentioned a 10-year-old.

You mentioned your wife's got a surprise plan for you for your birthday.

Maybe that's it.

Oh my god.

Wow.

That would be

huge.

She's going to take you to the finest windowsill in New York.

What do you think?

Why is Pete's, why are Pete's clothes laid out like that?

What does happen there?

I think he fornicates.

Fornicate.

Yeah, they lead him off into the woods.

And he's caught.

Yeah.

Mid-fornication?

Mid-fornication.

Yeah.

Show us that, Cohens.

Yeah.

Cowards.

Because Delmore's a virgin.

He hasn't, he doesn't have time to, he's got to get the family farm back

before he thinks about that guy.

And Everett's like, yeah.

And then Everett makes a baby seemingly every year with Holly Hunter, right?

The math on the babies is like impossible.

It's so funny when you see that.

And then it's Holly Hunter who's

the tiniest frame imaginable.

But it's just so funny when you see the girls first.

Okay, he's got three children, right?

Then you go indoors, Holly Hunter is holding a new baby and has three additional children with her.

You have to tie them all in a line.

There's seven in total?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

So they think Everett's a pizza toad, so they have a toad now.

A horny tower.

A horny tower.

I love this song, too, the sirens sing.

It's one of my faves.

And it's a scene that is like funny.

All of the reaction shots are funny, right?

Like Taturo seemingly increasingly angered by the seduction, them smushing Tim Blake Nelson's face, and yet it's also a little creepy.

Yeah.

I think the sirens are also dubbed by Emily Lou Harris, Alsa Kraus, and

Jillian Welsh.

Jillian Queens.

Yeah.

After this

is, I guess, the

Cyclops, the

Bible salesman, Big Dan.

Art Year of Goodman.

Right.

Goodman in

kind of Barton Fink, but just more cartoonish evil mode.

He is also so clearly evil Everett.

He's like, yes, right, big talker.

Right.

Yeah.

But I like that he's playing the darkness at the forefront from the beginning.

Yes.

Yeah.

There's sort of an obvious move to have him play more successfully Charming and then disarm you with it.

Right.

More sweet, more sweet.

I think this is where the odyssey thing works in their favor because you're like well that's the cyclops like i know what the cyclops does yes you're and the reveal of him turning around turning towards the camera and showing the the eye patch oh sure yeah yeah but yeah it's also just funny to watch the fucking john goodman swing a big a big ass branch snaps that branch when he's the fact that neither of them are putting it together as he's preparing to beat their ass and then even after he hits what are you doing yeah when he's so calm and he goes uh what are are you doing there, Dan?

And he just keeps going like, Dan, I got to admit, I'm not sure I quite understand the lesson.

You said year of Goodman.

Is this a specific year of Goodman you want to highlight?

No, I'm saying 2025 for the blank check podcast.

It is the year of good.

Always King Ralph and five Goodman Cohens.

Many Cohens, exactly.

But I will say in 2000, he was also in The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwing.

Of course.

He's quite good in that as a southern sheriff.

It sounds like something he might have done.

Coyote Ugly, where he's the dad who's like, I'm not sure if I want you going to work at Coyote Ugly.

He might also be a Southern Sheriff.

Probably.

Emperor's New Groove, where he is a Peruvian farmer.

Yeah.

And just wants to keep his little hamlet on top of this mountain.

Type casting.

And what Planet Are You From?

Which I haven't seen.

Which I just watched for the first time and is, in my opinion, good.

Have you ever seen it, Emily?

Is that the Mike Nichols one?

That's Mike Nichols Gary Sherman.

I'm going to be watching it for 2000s.

It is.

We're doing Mike Nichols.

It is the fucking Larry Sanders blank check.

Can I transfer the heat to movies move?

And he gets nichols in this all-star cast.

And I'd always assumed it was terrible because it was a flop at the time and it has no reputation.

I thought it was pretty solid.

Yeah.

I watch it back-to-back with Town and Country, which is worse than people say.

Oh, wow.

Town and Country

didn't even deliver on the rock bottom expectations?

It is astonishing.

I want the FBI to release all the Town and Country papers.

I have so many questions that will never be answered about how the fuck that movie ended up that way.

I'll watch it.

Yeah.

I got to watch

Silverman, Down and Country.

I've got to watch all these like 2000 era like maligned comedies.

Okay.

Then we get to the big reveal of Holly Hunter and all that.

Ray McKinnon, who's such a funny face man.

We love Ray McKinnon.

Yeah.

Deadwood.

Deadwood, he, Justify, won a, or just, just a, no, no, what's it called?

Rectify.

Rectify.

Rectify.

We all forget rectify.

It's a brilliant show.

He's like, he's the creator and director, and it's beautiful.

One in Oscar with fucking

Walton Goggins.

Yep.

For the accountant, a little short film, which then they adapt into a feature film called Randy and the Mob.

That I haven't seen.

That went nowhere.

But he's great.

He is revealed to be the campaign manager for Papio Daniel.

I just love that he fucking lays.

No, he's the campaign manager for the reformer, hopefully.

The Homer.

But he lays out Everett so thoroughly.

Yes.

Clooney doesn't land a punch on that guy.

Clooney is one of the best at like comedic punch reaction.

It's when you talk about like David him saying like, I'm doing this.

I'm in.

I know what the Coens are.

I know what they want.

He so understands the visual language of the Coens as filmmakers that he knows how to like, with his body, complete the shots that they want of like.

the angle of the reaction to being hit, the spinning towards the camera or clocking the neck back.

Like he has seven or eight times in this movie where he has to react to a hit that are all so fucking funny.

This is a bit of a hot take, but George Clooney is not my favorite director.

I don't love all his films.

He's like Midnight Sky Guy.

There's eight movies I could have busted out there as a joke.

Yeah, that all came out in 2021.

All on different streaming services?

Yeah.

But even in his earliest film roles, you see him understanding the camera and how he's going to fill in the frame.

He's not.

a bad director.

The movies he makes that I don't like are not ineptly made.

Yeah.

It's more that the story tends to be very boring, like, or whatever.

You know, like he loses me elsewhere.

But I agree with you that that has Krav.

He works with clever people.

It's interesting because there are few movie stars who kind of feel more constantly aware of filmmaking than he does without being self-conscious.

He's so good at not just like knowing his angles, but knowing what will make a shot pop.

And then that doesn't really translate over his directing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's he's his visuals and his films are often you look at Black Night Sky Tender Bar Boys in the Boat.

Yeah.

And you're like, Jesus.

And then you remember he also did a catch-22 like mini-series on top of that.

Yes.

Yeah.

All like in like five years.

Four years.

The four years where like the world is shut down.

Yeah.

It's not like, yeah, I don't have to work much.

I got all this techila.

Yes, right.

And yet I do think Confessions is a really strong debut that's fun.

Yeah, I love that movie.

And Good Night and Good Luck rocks and only rocks more on rewatch.

But then it's a media drop-off.

Then it's like,

I've actually never seen Leatherheads.

I've tried to get

there's like two Leatherhead stands out there in the world.

John Krasinski and George Clippy.

I guess so.

Yeah.

Eids of March sucks.

Yeah.

And that's it's just Monuments Men is just a big old sleeping pill.

But is actually anger-inducing, where it's like, how is this

so much at your disposal here?

I feel like that's his entire career now.

It's like, how is Boys in the Boat or whatever?

Well,

yeah, he's, I can't talk about it, but he's in a Noah Bonebeck movie this year.

Uh-huh.

Which we like.

We like that he's working with like other directors.

I'm excited he's acting more again.

Yes.

That was the most annoying part of him making shitty movies for so long is like, why aren't you being George Clooney?

And why are you your only director?

You know, like if you're acting, it's because you're directing yourself.

Yeah.

Which he told me when I interviewed him for Saburacon he didn't like doing.

Yeah.

Which I guess it's Midnight Sky.

He's not at Tender Bar or Boys in the Boat, I guess.

No.

So good for him, I guess.

But lead in Monumentsman, lead kind of lead Nights of March, although it's really gosling.

Right.

Leatherheads.

Yeah.

But yeah.

Ray McKinnon's the campaign manager for the competition.

Homer Soaks, we've been introduced to as the reform candidate who fights for the little man.

He's got a little person on stage with him in a broom.

That's such a good, like, it's such a good

campaign gimmicks.

All gimmicks from reality, like from history.

There's a guy who did a broom thing.

Playing on your expectations of like, here's Papio Daniel, who looks like fucking Colonel Sanders, who's angry Charles Dern and being like, why do they want to like this progressive guy?

Right.

And you're like, oh, he's like the old southern, like stuck in the mud, institutional piece of shit.

And here's this guy who actually cares about people and he's leading this groundswell that like Papi's not going to be able to stop.

And then, of course, you realize that this guy is the grand wizard of Klu Kluck Klan chapter.

True.

Papio Daniel actually does care, but at least somewhat.

And it certainly is less ideologically motivated.

Right, yes.

But also, like, there's something to me in the moment where the crowd boos Homer for calling out that he thinks

there's a miscendation going on, right?

Yes.

They just want to listen to the music.

Exactly.

And, like, there's the moment where Papi goes, like, oh, they don't care.

And immediately he's like, actually, let's maybe be more progressive, right?

It's like, he listens to the people in a way.

People talk a lot about whether the Cohens are conservative filmmakers, by which I mean I don't think they voted for Donald Trump, but the sense that like they have an inherently conservative view of the world.

And like, I don't think that they do, but I think they have an overwhelming faith in Fargo's the best example of just normal folk who are going to like realize like the truth of the matter.

There's a distrust of institutions and power, and there's a belief in the individual person.

And And I think that we live in a world that has sort of disproved that notion, but also when everyone's excited that the soggy bottom boys are that good, that they don't care that they're an integrated group.

Exactly.

I also, I just think I've heard people make the argument that they're like neoliberal hacks and that they're like libertarian, like fuck it all guys.

And it is interesting that all three of those reads.

Yeah.

Like persist in tandem and yet none of them totally fit.

Yeah, and it really depends on the project.

They just are,

they do not think that institutions have the best interests of everyone in mind, which I think is true.

It's all a little glossed, though.

And I do think some critics just bumped on that.

I think, yeah, I think that the Klan element of this film, I think, ultimately works, but it is

simultaneously playing a silly vibe on something that is horrifying.

It is so chilling and yet, right, also a broad comic scene that's shot like a Buzzwee, Berkeley musical.

Yeah.

And it is, I mean, to me, it is kind of magic to try something on insane.

I agree.

Let me

kind of like bewildered by it, like, and in a good way.

But you won't be.

But at the same time, it's so chilling to see the clan on screen.

The sequence opens with like silence watching them form with the fiery cross, which is so upsetting.

And this is on the O Death song.

I was going to say, it's like two seconds of un two seconds, two minutes of unaccompanied music that is presented in a very haunting way.

And then it sort of gets back into comedy.

Like these like pivots the movie is able to make within a scene.

It's so silly that they're doing choreo.

Yeah.

Like I think that's like a funny element.

But again, it's also so horrifying to see

the silliness is vital.

At the same time, you're like, oh, they're going to kill Tommy.

Like they are playing those two things simultaneously.

But even like in when Homer is like taken out, right?

When he's losing the crowd.

Yeah.

And he goes like, look, I have it on good authority that these men interfered with the duties of a lynch mob.

I am a member, a high-up member of a secret society.

I need not even mention name.

Like you go into the scene thinking, oh, they're going to out him some way and the crowd's going to turn.

He offers that information up himself and thinks that people will be like, oh, of course, we got your back.

Yeah, yeah.

I think we also need to bring back riding people out of town on a rail, which is what happens on a rail.

That's good.

We got to bring it back.

We got to bring it back, folks.

We love the rails.

The scrolls need to go on the rails.

There's a book called A Fever in the Heartland, which is quite good, which is about this period in history when the clan is like this huge organization.

But also, if they're exposed, then people are like, well, we don't want to have anything to do with the clan.

And it's sort of about the downfall, the beginning of the downfall of the clan.

And this movie.

kind of captures

that book that I want to read, the Timothy Egan.

Yes.

That's what I find fascinating about that moment is he's like, I know I can't say it outright because we're not supposed to admit it anymore.

But if I allude to it, I think everyone will quietly nod in agreement and go, like, we all agree to not call out what you're saying.

And he is surprised that the crowd turns on him.

Yeah.

And it is also like playing off the theme you mentioned of music being this integrating force, not as strongly as it should have been, but you know, having this element of, oh, this is how African-American culture moves up into the mainstream.

Right.

And what Pappy Klocks isn't like, these people want progress.

It's they don't care.

Right.

And it's better.

The less cynical position of just like, just don't yuck anyone's yum.

They're enjoying this song.

Derning does say that.

Don't yuck them.

He does say that.

Yeah.

Peppy licks his finger and then sizzles.

He does do it.

He does do that.

During a classically trained dancer, knows how to soft shoe.

Hell yeah.

Right.

He moves so well, despite being built like the stay puff marshmallow man.

He's so light on his feet.

You're right.

And of course, the white clothes makes him even more marshmallow-y in this this movie.

It was just a real era of him going like,

like, you know, in everything he was in, I feel that bit of him that they hit like three times of him being so benevolent to the crowd, right?

I love the soggy bottom boys.

I'm giving them full pardons.

And not only that, they're going to be my brain trust.

And then they keep cutting back to the same angle of him turning around his shoulder and going, Isn't that right, boys?

And he looks scarier than any human being has ever looked on film.

He looks scarier than this movie's depiction of Satan.

Love Charles Journey.

The same year he's in state in Maine as the mayor.

I feel like it's a somewhat similar role.

Right?

Yeah.

And,

you know, never got his Oscar, but nominated twice.

Yes.

And kind of weird nominations.

I mean, he should have gotten the fucking Dog Day nomination.

No, that's always like a cop.

Everyone gets.

Right.

Yeah.

Everyone's good at it.

But I'm like, his fucking top ballot for me of like Tootsie Muppet movie, Dog Day.

I love the Muppet movies in there.

I'm not mad.

Doc Hopper is unbelievable.

And his incredible version of what I'm saying is, how does he get away with making this villain actually upsetting in a Muppet movie?

When Griffin loves someone, you always,

I'm not good at that, at remembering that they may have been in a Muppet movie.

He is the human lead in the Muppet movie.

Yeah, Doc Hopper is the other side of Papio Daniel.

They're like the same coin.

I've truly basically dressed the same.

I think I've seen Muppets take Manhattan a bunch of times because it must have been on TV or something.

I think I've only ever seen, and I've seen Christmas Carol many times.

Sure.

I love and respect it.

It has Charles Dickens in it.

But what excuse would you have to watch the other Muppet movies?

You have zero children and you hate putting on things for them to watch.

The fucking insane thing about the Muppets Take Manhattan is the Broadway show at the end of that.

Like, I always imagine going to see, oh, and then the like, the like walls are singing.

Right.

Also, like what?

Pig and a frog got married?

I've eaten two of this.

Are you going to replicate this again?

Do you think Mike Darwin would like the Muppets movie?

Like, is she ready six times a year yes she's ready i my kid i watch random things on youtube with them and uh their favorite is frog song which is rainbow connection right right well rainbow connection it's just right the more the uh right the whole narrative i think put on some muppets show first because that's bite-size it's little tiny yeah yeah it's all on disney

callback although isn't it is it leaving disney no disney

no that's fucking zaslav and looney tunes muppets aren't going right right

um so we should be wrapping up soon because you guys have to see Annie.

It feels like there's such a clean, like, oh, all everything's in one spot.

Pappy won the election.

He's like commuting their sentence.

Everything's good.

You think the movie's over.

There's a bona coda mini act of,

okay, like Holly Hunter will shift the wedding.

The date and the venue are the same.

The cast is going to change.

She demands the ring.

It's the Dana Carvey you forgot about Satan.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Right.

And so they have to go back to the family cabin to get the ring and the roll desk and the roll-top desk.

But in fact, Satan is waiting there for them.

He doesn't know that they've been pardoned because

we don't have radios.

Dan's law.

Yes.

Right.

Is trying to hang them.

And then nature intervenes.

The great flood happens.

Everything's.

See a cow on a roof.

Yep.

As predicted.

Everett is still fighting with...

Penny, who's like, she's like, that's the wrong ring.

But I feel like everyone's going to get what they want.

Yeah.

Like, I think Pete will open his restaurant.

I sure hope that Delmer will get the family farm.

Gonna be international pop stars.

And I guess they can, right?

They can earn money that way.

Yeah, Delmar is going to be knee-deep and strange.

The soggy bottom groupies?

It is funny that they're called the soggy bottom boys.

Like, it's just like the wet ass trio.

It's a good name for a band.

And it's funny because that.

is referencing the fact that they had been baptized

just previously.

So they show up and they're kind of still still a little wet.

It is interesting that the movie raises this question of like your eternal soul.

And then it's like, those were the stakes we had established earlier, remember, in the last 10 minutes.

Yes.

Yes.

So why does nature intervene and help?

What have they done to earn this?

Nothing.

Well, Clooney's argument is that it's just trying to reset the culture.

Sure.

That's not about them.

Right.

That it was fortuitous timing.

Right.

Because he also doesn't want to believe that any sort of fate that was projected projected upon them by

the sightseer.

But then seeing the cow on the roof is the thing that kind of knocks him out of it.

They did accidentally take down a clan leader.

Like, they didn't mean to do that, but they did.

You're right.

So they've done good.

Yeah.

And then they brought music to the world.

They did.

Yeah.

We love music.

Yeah.

I think God thinks Man of Constance is a toe-tapper.

It is.

And insurance.

Undenier.

And

they help Tommy with no compunction.

You know, when they see Tommy's in trouble, there's no like, ah, we shouldn't.

You know, we're going to get in.

Like, they're all united on on that.

That's a big point.

They help everybody they meet, even if it's to do bad.

Yeah, it's like an interesting view of Karma.

They're helpful people.

Yeah.

I think this film is quite good.

Yeah.

See, I, to me, it's sort of in that hot sucker thing where I'm like, great movie.

Yeah.

Don't think it's in my Cohen's top 10, but that's a Cohen's thing.

No, nobody's.

That's 10 masterpieces.

I have the opposite thing of you, Emily, just because it was the first one I saw where every time I watch it, I'm like, am I going to have that buzzing of I've seen the greatest movie I've ever seen in my life again?

And it's sort of the way that Edgar Wright talks about seeing Raising Arizona for the first time and being like, why aren't all movies like this?

Oh, that's the first one I saw was Raising Arizona.

My uncle showed me that.

Was like, you're going to love this.

I was like 14.

I was like, what the fuck is this?

My parents tried to show me Raising Arizona when I was like six or seven and it didn't take.

I didn't know a movie could do that at the time.

But I think I felt that way seeing this for the first time.

Yeah.

And then I went back and watched Raising Arizona and finally got it.

This is toward the bottom of my Cohen's top 10, but I think it's like nine.

I think it's in there.

It's a fantastic currently at 11, but we'll see how this list shakes out, I will say.

Box office game.

Okay, I do have to go see Eddington.

You have to go see Eddie, and I don't want to do the opening weekend, which was like cast away.

We've done that for Christmas 2000.

I want to do its biggest weekend.

Okay.

So that's February 2nd, 2001, Griffin.

A robust 3.5?

Correct.

3.6.

That is the most money it made in an individual weekend.

It's number 11 at the box office.

Okay.

Number one at the box office is a romantic comedy.

February 2001.

Yes.

One of these stars might have caught Roger Ebert's eye.

It is called The Wedding Planner.

A really,

really bad movie.

Yeah, a film I feel you punch a lot.

I really hate the Eminem speech in it.

It drives me crazy.

And I think it's McConaughey sapped of the most juice.

Like those slightly later McConaughey rom-coms where he's more of a like rascal.

Well, 10 Days is the biggest hit.

And then it's just like this cursed him into a cul-de-sac of success, of uninteresting success for eight years before he got his mojo.

In Wedding Planner, he's just just this like v-nex sweater loser motherfucker.

Have you seen Wedding Planner?

I have.

And you're a huge fan.

I showed it at the time, and I was like, this should win best picture.

Give it four stars.

Shit, Chicago Sun-Times.

Of course.

Adam Shankman, director.

You have Disenchanted.

Your former collaborator.

Yes.

Your former boss.

Yeah.

Well,

I think he considers himself a collaborator.

Number two at the box office is a horror film.

Why is a horror film coming out at this time?

Oh, could it be attached to a holiday?

Oh, it's Valentine's Valentine.

Valentine.

That's Boreana's, right?

Boreana's first build.

Is that his only first build film?

Attached to B.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Before he's like, ah, you can catch me on the silver screen forever.

I mean, the small screen.

Sorry.

Like, you know, like, I'm going to bones.

The Bronx?

Just quietly the new Scott Bakula.

Just like quietly.

In like constantly working.

Yeah.

You know, that's what was the thing you did after

like another fucking CBR show?

CEAL SEALS or something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

One of those guys, my dad will see SEAL team.

Be like, God, he must have so much fucking money.

That was true.

There's so much.

Show people like that where they're not the biggest stars, but it's like you have been on a show for 25 consecutive years.

Those bones guys, especially like the middle cast of bones, right?

Not additional.

Like, I just think about that all the time.

But also, there was the Big Bones lawsuit that I will let people look up in their own time.

They all got an additional big payday years later.

That Navy SEAL show with Boreanis had a dog on it.

And it was one of my last TCA press tours.

And we all wanted to interview the dogs handler.

And Boreanis had a look like this is what's become of my career.

It was, it was his kind of

out of the way, Boreanis.

We don't care about you anymore.

It was his Kelsey Grammar moose moment.

Yeah.

Number three at the box office as a film I mentioned already.

We've covered on the podcast as a giant hit.

It's in its seventh weekend.

It's made $203 million.

It's Oscar-nominated.

It's great.

It's, I guess, a drama and adventure movie.

I guess

Castaway.

That's Castaway.

Number four, great movie.

We love Castaway.

We love Castaway.

It It rolls.

It rocks and rolls.

Number four at the box office is a teen

film.

I think they're teens in this one, right?

It's a young people romance.

Oh, a walk to remember.

No, that's Shankman.

It is not a walk to remember.

And I think, yeah, that might be like a year prior or

after.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's got dancing in it.

Is it center stage?

No.

Save the last dance.

It's safe.

The last dance

style.

It's huge hit.

A weird, like out of nowhere winter blockbuster.

The very cute Sean Patrick Thomas, who never quite like, you know, got his big star movie.

And Juilliard movie,

directed by Thomas Carter.

Who then later goes on to direct Coach Carter.

And they were like, Nepasses with my name all over it.

And then, of course, directed my favorite movie, the Cuba Gooding Jr.

TV movie, Gifted Hands, the Ben Carson story.

You love that film.

You voted for that film for president.

Yes.

I wrote it in.

And number five in the box office is one best cinematography, Griffin, at the Oscars.

Crushing Tiger Head and Driving.

Good movie.

What's it up to at this point?

52.

God.

So it's got a ways to go.

Yeah.

A crazy run.

Emily.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

What's head over heels?

That was Freddie Prince and

Monica Potter?

You're correct.

Yes.

Monica Potter, Freddie Prince Jr.

Yeah.

That seems to be about it.

It's one of those.

Emily, we're we're going to end this episode abruptly because

we're going to have to get to an English screening for reasons that are hopefully apparent

six episodes ago.

Sure.

Okay, great.

I'm going to do the Emily St.

James is available here in like under a minute.

I think I can do it.

I'm going to put my shoes on while you're doing this.

Yeah.

So you can find my work everywhere online.

I am at Emily St.

James on most platforms, mostly Blue Sky and Letterboxd.

I am a writer on the TV show Yellow Jackets, which you can find on Paramount Plus with Showtime, which is a very weird way to say something.

We love it.

Paramount Plus with Showtime.

My novel, Woodworking, out in bookstores right now.

Apparently, people are buying it and reading it and enjoying it, and I'm so glad of that.

My podcast is podcast like it's the 2000s, which I co-host with Phil Iscov.

When is this episode coming out?

Oh, great question.

And I can definitely tell you that.

October, September?

We are either doing best director.

Late August.

Oh, yeah, we're doing best director follow-ups.

We're covering the movies that all the best director winners did as follow-ups.

So we're probably talking about Ron Howard's The Missing.

I love this.

And I might

message you about which movies are available.

It's just okay.

It's okay.

And then finally, you can find my newsletter at episodes.ghost.io.

And if you just see me in the street, come up and say hi.

I'll shake your hand.

You're the best in the biz.

You're such an important friend in the history of this show.

It is always a pleasure to have you on.

And it's always fun when an episode comes together.

We've weirdly been struggling to find someone for this.

You message us.

We're like, late notice.

I'm in town in a week.

Yeah.

And we were like, oh, brother.

And you went like, I wrote a whole fucking piece on the DI.

Yeah.

That piece you can find at colors.

Where, where did they go at fox.com?

So, yeah, there you go.

All of the links will be in the episode description.

Of course.

I also just want to do a quick shout out.

If anyone is interested in listening to any like very old Appalachian music, like all stuff on 78s, there was a WFMU show called Old Kajer with Courtney T.

Edison.

It's not on anymore, but I'll put a link in the description.

You can listen to those back episodes earlier.

Holy girl.

Yeah.

And then I also just want to shout out for anyone who may be interested in contemporary roots Americana music.

Check out the music publication, No Depression.

Hey, and David,

Blanktech theme parenthetical sirens edition, which you heard at the beginning of this episode,

was recorded and produced.

Not that kind of sirens.

It was recorded and produced by our friend, Gabe Barretto, and performed by Maggie Feldman, Olivia Ellen Lloyd, and friend of the show, past and future guest Academy Award nominee Amy Irving.

Their Spotify profiles are included in the episode description, and we thank them greatly for taking the time to do that very silly thing for us.

Yay!

Thank you all for listening.

Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe.

Tune in next week for The Man Who Wasn't There, Correct?

Uh, yeah, absolutely.

And as always, I'm a Dapper Dan.

Yeah, we have to leave time too for everyone at the theater to sing me happy birthday.

We do.

That's

a really important request.

I heard the whole cast is going to come.

Yeah.

Sing you happy birthday.

I mean, I'm fully expecting that.

Do you want me to sing you happy birthday right now?

I will.

You know what?

Not right now.

Surprise me.

All right, I will.

I will.

Now, Griff, are you going to sing?

No.

Okay.

This movie has so many good quotes.

I think you should sing.

I think it's not a singer.

I think think i'm definitely gonna sing you could yodel

i think in uh

lou and davis oh sure yeah oh yeah right rachel will love that yeah she will she'll be like damn you're good

blank check with griffin and david is hosted by griffin newman and david sims our executive producer is me ben hosley our creative producer is marie bardy salinas and our associate producer is AJ McKeon.

This show is mixed and edited by A.J.

McKeon and Alan Smithy.

Research by J.J.

Birch.

Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel.

With additional music by Alex Mitchell.

Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds.

Our production assistant is Minnick.

Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help.

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