Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom with Olivia Craighead

Blank Jack with Griffin and David

Blankjack with Griffin and David.

Don't know what to say or to expect.

All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Jack.

I was happy in Shanghai.

I had a little house and a garden.

My friends were rich.

We went to parties all the time in limousines.

I hate being outside

i'm a podcaster i could lose my voice

i don't know maybe you need to be more hysterical i think i was a little too muted in that performance that was very good actually this is a little bit like lorraine broccol in uh medicine man yes where there is no way you can ultimately

like actually she's louder than that

Great segue into what I wanted to talk about.

Great.

Okay, here we go.

There's an HBO Max documentary about David Chase, directed by Alex Gibney, who directs like 18 documentaries a year.

Yeah, right.

Have you watched it called Wise Guy?

In which he's just interviewing David Chase about the Sopranos.

But you like the Sopranos.

I love the Sopranos.

Okay, so you should watch it.

Okay.

Because even though it's recycling a fair amount of anecdotes, I feel like we know about the Sopranos, David Chase is such an interesting, dark-ass motherfucker.

Also, let's say, maybe the sleepiest-looking motherfucker in the world.

But, and, like, truly incredibly eloquent, really interesting to hear him talking.

like and like Gibney has like you know taped him to a chair and is basically like talk really candid about Gandalfini and how complicated the relationship was and how tough Gandalfini was on set and all this shit.

It's all great.

Kind of a Willie Scott

in that dynamic.

You're saying Gandalfini was a Willie Scott to David Chase's Indian

Jones.

Are we sure?

I don't know.

Go on.

I shouldn't cut you off.

I reached conclusion.

And Brocco is they allow cut to Brocco sometimes and she truly, she's she, she's very upfront too where she's like, I'm so not like Melfie.

And what she should be saying is like, I'm really like Medicine Man Lady.

Like, that's my vibe.

Yeah.

Because she is like loud and like, oh, la, la, la, la.

And

you watch her talking and you're like, Melfie is an incredible performance.

She like really likes, you know, anyway.

And

off mic, I was asking our guests, is Ham kind of the greatest TV performance?

Yeah.

But then I think you do have, you know, the Sopranos is very low.

I think it's Gandalfini.

It's Gandalfin.

Or I think you can make the argument for John Hamm.

I was thinking about it.

How many times I watched Mad Men?

Earlier today, I think I saw like a post about Mad Men and I was like, that's the great American novel.

It is.

It is.

It kind of is.

It is the best.

And obviously, it's a seed that sprouted from the Sopranos, right?

Like, you know, Weiner worked on Sopranos and all that.

But, but, yeah.

You got to watch Wise Guy and text me about it.

I've still not finished Sopranos.

Well, you made it.

How far did you go?

I was barreling through the first three seasons.

You made it to right to the point where I do think a lot of people are like, I'm a little overwhelmed.

I need a break.

Is that when like Ralphie shows up?

Ralphie shows up to season three.

Yeah.

Season three is the really nasty.

It's a great season, but it's where Chase feels like he's kind of like, I feel like you motherfuckers don't get that these are bad people.

But this is the other part of it is that like, I don't love mob shit.

Right.

And season three is when it starts to become clear that it's like there's a lot of mob politics.

Right.

It's kind of like subsiding.

That stops being the superstructure of the show.

And that does, that whole part sort of does sort of fade away.

And they're like, how do we keep Melfie in this show?

I felt very disappointed by that.

Yeah.

But it is, it much like real therapy, right?

It's like a couple of years in, you are kind of often having kind of the same conversations, and there's only so much more dramatic.

So I got huge shit happening in therapy.

That's good.

That's good.

I'm very happy.

Yeah, we got new showrunners came in and really have a new take on how to do it.

Man, David Chase, though, he's just,

he's a scary dude.

If I had to work for him, I would, I would be so scared to work for that scary motherfucking guy.

I don't know.

Yeah, but scary in a very specific way.

In a sleepy way.

In a very sleepy way.

But he feels like the kind of like dad you would never satisfy if you worked for him, where you'd be like, what about this?

And he'd be like, no.

And you're like, okay.

And he's like, I wrote this.

And you're like, well, that's, that's like incredible.

Are Vince Gilligan and Matt Wiener both from Sopranos?

No, I think Gilligan is from the X-Files.

That's where, that's the tree.

I knew he was from somewhere.

No, he was an X-Files alum.

No, I feel like Chase's big alums are Terrence Winter, who did Boardwalk Empire and stuff and vinyl, right?

And now Tulsa King.

Yep.

And Matt Weiner, of course.

Robin Green and Mitchell Burgess went on to create Blue Bloods, which has gone on, is still on the air.

I think just ended.

Okay.

Was Tom Sellick the police commissioner for like 14 seasons?

Like, how many mayors did he serve under?

I think he's much time passed i think he's retired at a certain point because the dynasty was len carew was a mission care is the is the retired former how do you guys know this about blood excuse me i was on two episodes

as detective

wonderboy johnson donnie did not like me

The first time he said, why'd we hire this guy?

We could have cast anyone.

And the second time he said, why'd we bring this guy back?

Are you playing the same guy?

Are you saying this, playing the same guy both times?

Or is it like a law and order thing?

No, no, no, no.

I was was playing.

A recurring character.

It was a possible recurring.

Right.

That did not recur.

And Donnie.

And he literally walked on set and went, we brought this guy back.

Damn.

Did not like me.

Because I'm not like the guy.

I love when a show like that runs so long and you're like, yeah, I get the premises, right?

Carrie is the retired commissioner.

Tom Sellek is the commissioner.

Donnie Wahlberg is the son who's like a cop or whatever.

It was in Estes.

Is someone also like the DA?

Bridget Moynihan.

Bridget Moynihan.

And And then, by the way, this is Blank Check with Griffin and David.

I'm Griffin.

I'm David.

It's a podcast about Filmography's director.

It was a massive success early on in the future.

Steven Spielberg.

Blank text.

I'm sorry.

So we've got whatever crazy passion products they want.

Sometimes they'll check clear and sometimes they bounce.

Baby, we're doing a major series on the films of Steven Spielberg.

It's called Pod Rassic Cast.

Today we're talking about Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.

It's called what?

Pod Rassic

Cast.

Okay.

He's our guest.

Rassic.

He's our wonderful, wonderful guest.

Infromatic.

We're returning to the show.

In from out of town.

Hello.

The incredible incredible Olivia Craighead.

Hi, guys.

And pin in the conversation.

We're getting back to the Blue Leds conversation in a second.

Someone recently brought to my attention,

has iconography been pulled from the internet?

Oh, has it?

I don't know.

They didn't tell me.

I saw it.

I don't think they told either.

There was a flare in the sky recently.

Oh.

I downloaded all the episodes

permanently, like a year ago.

I was like, I got a worry.

I have a feeling.

I will

say, ultimately, that might be for the best because we were talking a lot, very candidly.

But I can't think of one example of how that would possibly come back to bike.

It would really hurt my career.

That's a problem.

I was hawking some shit about famous people and

doing you a mitzvah.

Yeah.

If she allowed the show to be taken down.

Last time you joined the Five Timers Club lit.

Yes.

This time it's just your sixth episode.

This time I'm just chilling.

You're just chilling.

Look, dare I say it, this is in a lot of ways, you're welcome to move sport

because there was a notion last time, do you have to retire?

Yeah, you did your fifth episode with Steve Jobs, one of my favorite movies of all time.

And now Danny Boyle, we're here to just chat about kind of a movie, but also in that episode, you revealed that you had left us a burger report

that was played on mic about Danny Boyle.

Yeah, so it is kind of like before we knew you.

Yeah, it was kind of like I made a half-court shot.

Yeah, right.

And now, like, what, two years later,

how's it ever going to get better this year?

Right, you're back and you're just going to like be like 12 and 8.

It's

like we're going to try our best.

22 minutes.

Blue Bloods, The Brilliance of the Show, Len Carriou, retired.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right?

Tom Sellek, commissioner.

And then the three kids were like beat cop, detective, and DA.

Lawyer, sure.

So it's sort of like a law and order style show with like upper city hall politics.

So there was always like family dinner table, weekly family dinner where everyone comes together.

I feel like the key art was always dinner table.

Right.

But then the show could always be like, there are two cases every week and they can be distributed across any of the characters.

Right.

Different viewpoints.

But there could also be some soapy drama.

Yes.

But like.

Kind of a good idea for a show.

It's very good.

I don't wonder if it's for fucking a zillion years.

It's like a perfect idea for a TV show.

And like,

you know, like Jack Ryan, right?

You check in with like the shadow recruit?

You're talking about the shadow recruiter.

Right.

Like, what happened later with Jack Ryan?

Like the books.

No, no, no.

The books that like never got turned into movies.

And you're like, yeah, he becomes the president.

America goes to war with China.

All kinds of insane shit happens because he had to just keep writing stuff.

So in Blue Blood Season 10, yeah, is like Donnie Wahlberg the mayor?

No one will tell me because no one's checking in.

Correct.

It's airing.

It's airing.

At a certain point, after a TV show hits season seven, it's like, who knows what's happening?

Who knows what's happening at Crazy Activity?

Exactly.

Where you're like, what happened?

And they're like, ah, Alexi Gray, you know, has a Terminator eye.

And you're like, she does?

Like, yeah, come on.

You knew about that.

Surely she got it in the fourth musical episode.

McDreamy came back as a ghost and then she dumped the ghost version of him because maybe the actor was difficult to work with.

They thought he had humbled and he had.

I think he did come back as a ghost when she had COVID.

Yes, she was on the COVID beach.

Yes, there's the COVID beach season, right, where they acknowledge.

And then don't they have an episode after that where they're like, COVID will no longer be watching on this show because we're sick of it.

Yeah.

And that was that.

I love those seasons.

of TV from like 2020 where it's like everyone's wearing a mask and like they're Law and Order also does this where they're like COVID's here.

I do not, I guess, watch enough television.

It happened on like network shows.

Yeah, I don't watch much.

The only network show I watch is Abbott Elementary.

I think that's the only network show I watch.

Yeah.

Which rocks, to be clear, I watch it because it's good.

Yeah.

But is there any other?

I think I should get into Dr.

Odyssey.

Well, everyone's televising.

You can't tell me that.

Speaking of COVID,

guys,

you have to get up.

Oh, my God.

Everyone's like,

Joshua Jackson's in a thrupple and he's like fucking a cocktail.

And I'm like, and this is

fucking a cocktail.

He's putting his penis in a martini.

He's put in a martini, exactly.

And I'm like, uh-huh.

And this is on Showtime?

It's like, no, no, no, it's on fucking CBS or whatever.

It's Fox.

No, it's on ABC.

It's on ABC.

It's a riot.

It's on the same night as 9-1-1.

Okay, but then also, I was told that in 9-1-1 or possibly the 9-1-1 spin-off, an asteroid hit Texas.

That was a 9-1-1 lone star.

But there was

a meteor that struck the Earth?

Or did Robloe stop it?

John Hamm played the meteor.

It's a full season arc.

We were talking about how John Hamm's on too many TV shows.

That's what led to the conversation about is he the best TV actor?

No, is it the best TV performance?

Because I like him generally fine.

Yeah.

But there's nothing like him as Draper.

I agree.

Okay.

The only network show I ostensibly watch, I would say, is The Connors, the best written comedy on television.

But that's wrapping up.

It's just ending, and I had to stop watching it during the pandemic because they were doing episodes about the pandemic as they should it's topical multi-camera show but with no audience now felt the difference yeah because i contended that was the only live studio audience show where you felt the the interplay

and i had to like wait three years and i finally have now made it through the covet years of connors which are good i think well done but i did not want to watch them in 2020.

there's an ncis origins yeah i'm just looking at younger

just like what's on tv right what's on what's on the schedule Isn't it young Jethro Gibbs?

It's young Mark Harmon, played by Austin Stole.

I'm sorry.

I thought you said CSI.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

And then we're going to talk about Indiana Jones, a very big franchise.

We'll do it in a second.

Mark Harmon's son was playing.

the younger version of his character across seasons.

They would do occasional flashback episodes, and his son played the role.

And at some point, I think his son and Harmon together went to CBS as part of probably some renegotiation on Harmon's part and were like, we want to pitch the idea of doing a full NCIS origins.

And they were like, we love that idea.

No, you should.

Yeah.

So he has been paid a tremendous amount of money to get off creator-producer credits, has given a bunch of interviews being like, it was,

it was time for me to step back.

You know?

And then they did a big casting search to find who the new young Mark Harmon was.

But

it's no longer Mark Harmon's son, and he's probably going to make $1 trillion.

It's like good for him.

Then you don't have to star on a network TV show, which sounds like a lot of worst job anyone could ever have.

Should I watch Saint Denis Medical?

That's getting pushed on me.

Yeah.

That's sort of like the new Abbott Elementary in the hospital.

It's funny.

I haven't watched it.

I haven't watched it either.

That's a good cast.

Yeah.

Right.

Okay.

David Allen Greer.

Yeah.

We love.

Yes.

In 1984, Steven Spielberg released a film called Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.

It was the direct sequel, although it's a quietly a prequel.

But let's say the direct follow-up.

Yes, direct follow-up to

a wildly successful film called Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Yes, and in between, he'd made some piece of shit called E.T.

the Extraterrestrial.

Yes.

So, like, you know,

it's an exciting moment for a young Steven Spielberg.

I just think they're interesting.

Like, he's going into Raiders, being like, I got to prove myself.

1941's haunting me.

People were excited to see me fall.

Yes, right.

I need to be responsible.

I need to just make a movie properly and have it it go out and be an unqualified success.

He was my age when this Temple of Doom came out.

That is so

38.

Dumb.

It's pretty dumb.

I watched the like HBO Spielberg documentary, which really sends home how young all those guys were when they were just like hanging out.

That's why they're still hanging out.

Yeah.

It's so, and

it blows my mind that he was just a kid when he made Jaws.

He's just 20 something completely.

It's crazy.

Yeah.

I know it's trite.

I hate that documentary because it's like, and then he won the Oscar for Shamas list.

And then he made a lot of money.

I want to hear about the back half of his career.

I find it interesting.

It's like a 10-hour thing.

It's one of the few things where it actually should be 10-hour installments.

Right, right.

Anyway, Steven Spielberg, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.

What was your point, Griffin?

Raiders such an unqualified triumph that now he's back and better than ever.

And I think, as we said in our episode, from that moment on, he's minted.

It's not that he doesn't ever have failures again, but it's like, congratulations.

We're no longer questioning you.

You're Steven Spielberg.

You'll be Steven Spielberg for life.

Your next 20 movies could be close-ups of diarrhea.

You're still like in the tapestry of cinema history.

And he chooses to follow up Raiders of the Lost Ark with E.T., the highest-grossing movie of all time, nominated for many Academy Awards.

Sure.

Rudely, perhaps, not given them.

And then it's interesting that he goes at a moment where he's like...

Could you anything?

Anything, anything, anything.

There is obviously this outstanding handshake handshake agreement, part of the original deal to do Raiders, a thing that he needed at that moment in his career in 1980, but does not need in the same way now.

But I think you're also starting to, at this moment, see the early stages of the bifurcation of Spielberg, because another thing that happens in between the two Indiana Jones is

Twilight Zone the movie.

Sure.

Sure.

Which I do think starts to affect his headspace.

Yeah, sure.

Right?

It's just like the stakes of this are different.

What am I agreeing to do?

What am I doing with my power and my career?

Right.

The responsibility of things.

And then the second thing is like fucking Amblins starting.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, that's right.

Right.

So like.

Culture Guys comes out the same year as E.T.

Gremlins comes out within weeks

of Temple of Doom.

Yep.

The two PG-13 movies.

Right.

You know, like the two movies that prompted the creation of P-10.

Back to the Future is the year after this.

Like there's a shift you see from this movie on where he's trying to like move past can I get over just being on Wonder Spielberg that I already feel in this movie he's maybe trying to work best.

Yeah.

This movie is scary and like kind of upsetting to watch.

I find this movie upsetting to watch at times.

Olivia, what is your lifelong history with Dr.

Henry Jones Jr.?

Dr.

Henry Jones Jr., Indiana, as you might call him.

They call it the gods.

Definitely owned,

like my family definitely owned the box set of all three.

And I think

Raiders is obviously the one we watched the most, followed by Last Crusade, because we also owned a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen on VHS.

And so I like Sean Connery.

Yeah, that's a VHS I hope you held on to.

His pan scan.

That's how you want to excuse me.

Yeah, exactly.

A lot of huge information there i'm pinning lxg for later my question is when you're watching last crusade are you going oh my god it's the guy from literally yeah okay corner means here yes and then and then uh temple dream was scary and my mom was always like this is the movie that made pg13 so it's like we gotta pump it the brakes for like these two children but i imagine for you the type of person you are yes that like sticks in your craw immediately.

Obviously, that is like the trivia that is just like burrowed into my brain.

But also that you're like, what is it about that movie?

And I think she, I remember my mom being like, a guy gets his heart ripped out in this movie.

And I was like, that is scary.

But I also think that Steven Spielberg was the first person I knew.

as a director.

Basically had to be.

Like, yeah.

For anyone born after 1975.

He was the first person where I was like, that is something a person can do as a job.

Right.

I think.

Right, right.

You wear it.

Because I was aware of Indiana Jones.

And then I think as like a 10-year-old, I was vaguely aware of like Schindler's List.

It was like

sort of just in the air.

And I was like, those are the same name.

That's weird.

But we were.

We were talking in our Raiders episode with Brian Michael Bandis, who

was of an age to be growing up as these films were coming out.

Right.

He is a child, but these movies are being presented.

Steven Spielberg is emerging in his lifetime.

And he like put forward this thing I hadn't really considered because of us growing up, being born into a world where he is a given.

That he was kind of the first filmmaker that was like

opening the book, who was like playing the role of, I'm a filmmaker, I'm doing behind the scenes.

Let me tell you how this all works.

Let me tell you what I did.

I'm putting out fucking CD-ROMs.

Like there was a sense of not just like he is the most successful filmmaker alive, but also he is a little more open source with it.

I think you can, I think that obviously inspires a lot of the Amblin stuff, too.

Totally, because he is such a shepherd of other people's processes.

He survives.

Yeah, but I also wears those hats.

That's the thing.

We also

have what Steven Spielberg looks like on set.

That is the thing.

I don't think I had ever known what a director would look like, but I knew, because Steven Spielberg is always

yapping on TV or whatever.

But I think about that too, where like any cartoon show I watch that would parody like the filming of a movie is doing some riff on Spielberg to a certain extent at that point, you know?

Yes.

Or they're doing like some really old fuddy buddy game.

Like Like in the like riding pants

with the fucking horn.

Yeah.

Which we should maybe bring back.

But I do think there's that kind of like, you know, glasses, beard, hat, sort of doing the, the,

framing with the fingers kind of thing.

Like you're, he was messaged to people as like, this is a director.

This is what they do.

This is what their job is.

You could parody the way someone gives direction.

Yeah.

based on like clips you're seeing circulated of Steven Spielberg making movies.

He definitely is the first direct I'm aware of.

I think of him wearing hats.

He wears like a hat with a battleship's name on it.

And you're like, is he the captain of the battleship?

It's like, no, he just wears hats.

He kind of really looked cool in the 70s and 80s.

He's cool.

I mean, he is a huge nerd.

He's like the biggest nerd alive.

But he looked cool.

He was dressing well.

And also, this is kind of a tangent.

Gabriel LaBelle really looks like him.

It's kind of wild.

I was watching the like early Spielberg parts of the documentary and I was like, that does look like Gabriel LaBelle.

I think Gabriel LaBelle is very good.

Golden Gold Nominee.

Yes.

This is what I was going to say.

I don't think he looks like Lauren Michaels, and yet there are moments in Saturday Night,

Rise of Bulb movie, that I'm like, God, he looks so much like Lauren Michaels.

I do think he's good at figuring out how to lock into some like cellular conjuring of people.

I think he's such a fantastic actor, and I don't know what is really going to

send him to the movie.

Well, what's who's the next young guy in the 70s that he can play?

Like, come on, give me, come on, give me another name.

Richard Nixon.

He's just doing secret honor.

I do think that it should have been the Fableman's.

People, you know.

My big take on the Fableman's is that the poster ruins that movie.

I think the poster trailer.

Because the poster makes it look like, oh, this is about movies.

And it's like, cheesy schlob.

This is actually, that's not what this movie is really.

No, it's about being fucked up.

It's about being fucked up.

When fucking cooks your whole goddamn family.

And who amongst us can't relate to that?

No, I was talking to someone about Gabriel LaBelle and being like, he's one away from Chadwick Bozeman territory.

Like, he can't do another plain iconic person at a young age thing.

No, but come on.

He should play Paul Simon next because he's short.

He can't do that.

No, I think he should.

Oh, my God.

I think that would be awesome.

That's the exact danger.

Oh, my God.

The most like self-important cock-sucking

movie about Paul Simon breaking the apartheid embargo and going to South Africa to make graceless.

I'm trying to think of the worst movie possible.

It's like few dared to go like hang out with

Lady Smith black.

They should do a movie that's about Paul Simon and Carrie Fisher being married.

Yeah, that I bet.

That sounds like a fun time.

Anyway, there's so many jokes I could make right now, but unfortunately, now that we have said it, Gabriel LaBelle is definitely going to play Paul Simon in something.

I'm sorry.

It's definitely going to happen.

I'd like someone to write him an original role.

I would too.

I would truly love it.

Do you guys see Snack Shack?

I've heard wonderful things about it.

What hell?

What?

This is what.

What hell is Snack Shack?

You can't be making up movies right now.

I want to make it clear.

Look, we will have a full episode discussion of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.

We just haven't seen Olivia.

I know.

We're really just going to be able to do this.

We did this in the pre-talk that we usually do before recording.

I'm surprised you haven't heard of it because Sean Fenny is.

I always talk a yard.

I love this.

Okay, I'll watch it.

You should watch it.

Gabriel LaBelle is like the supporting role in it, and he's really good in it.

And for plot reasons, he's kind of not in the second half, and the movie gets way worse.

I feel the lack of

what I'm trying to think what the equivalent is.

He's not the booger, but he's like, he's like the finessey, fast-talking best friend.

Yeah, there's like, there's like the anxious main protagonist, and then there's like his cool, suave.

Right.

I've been a little out in the movie

scene this year because I had to imagine why.

Oh, wait a second.

My wife had, to be clear.

I didn't do anything.

Okay.

I tried to help as best I could.

News to me.

Fun fact, as I said, I wanted to bring up on this.

So, Olivia, one of the first people in my life to know that my wife was pretty much curious about it.

Fully on accident because

you were trying to show me a picture on your phone

of my daughter, my extant daughter.

And

I saw a sonogram and I said, oh,

is that a sonogram?

And I was like, Olivia, I'm just going to put my cards on the table.

It was like February.

It was

like one month frankly.

Wow.

Anyway,

another movie that passed me by that everyone's now talking about, Christmas Eve and Miller's Point.

Yeah, people like this.

I got to check this movie out.

I guess it's some Christmas movie with Michael Sarah's in it.

I don't think a fancy thing in it.

Francesca Scorsese.

Francesca

Scorsese is in it.

Fantastic.

I have no idea.

You know who else is in it?

Sawyer Spielberg, if I'm not mistaken.

Sawyer Spielberg's in it.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No.

Someone like Steven Spielberg in it.

Richard Brody loves it.

Kate Capshaw.

Well then.

Sawyer Spielberg, I think, is first billed.

I'm looking at it now.

It's got weird bill in it.

Every time I see the trailer, it confuses me.

Just saw Richard at the Critic Circle vote.

Always lovely to see Richard.

Okay, listen.

Indiana Jones is a Temple of Doom.

Sawyer Spielberg is kind of hot.

All right.

Hello.

You're taken.

Okay.

Doesn't mean I can't.

A girl can treat about Sawyer Spielberg.

I'm not dating a Spielberg son.

We litigated this in other Indiana Jones episodes, but I did not see any of these movies until I was 19 or 20.

You watched them all, as you said, in the Raiders, basically basically in a weekend leading up to Crystal Skull.

Yeah, as like, I got to fix this blind spot.

That's so interesting.

I think I had the experience that many a young child had with Temple of Doom, where I watched Raiders of the Lost Ark, liked it, had a great time, watched Temple of Doom

and was allowed to because my parents were like, right, Indiana Jones is in that.

That's for children, right?

And was a little...

perturbed by it.

Yeah.

Like, and was just kind of like, I'm not having fun.

Even though there's like a kid in this and like they're in minecarts and Indiana Jones is here.

I feel a little sad watching this.

A little freaked out.

And that was, and yeah, I've seen this movie many, many, many times because I guess they're just on TV and shit.

And then did Last Crusade feel like a return to triumph?

They're having fun again, Ben.

This is a freak movie.

I mean, you know,

did you vibe with the freakiness at all?

I don't think I saw this until I was an adult.

So you didn't have.

I think this was just one I totally missed.

Ben, I don't know if you feel the same way, but this is the one where I'm like, I'm losing something by not having seen it as a child because I think it's not going to upset you as much.

I think there's some power to this movie that I can't absorb because I didn't see it at an age where it could actually unnerve me.

And I think when people talk about the legacy of this movie, that's a huge part of it.

So when you watch it, are you not like, ah, like, are you not, does it, do you not find it scary or upsetting?

I mean, here's, here's my experience.

Uh, uh, my old roommate, Spike, loans me his DVD set when I, in conversation, mentioned I've never seen any of them, right?

He's like, you got to fucking watch these before Crystal Skull comes out.

I live in the bedroom of the shitty apartment.

Uh, I watch Raiders, I walk out.

He goes, eh, pretty good, huh?

I go, yeah, it's, it's, yeah, it's fun.

He's like, that's one of the best movies ever made.

I'm like, I guess I got to study that more to figure it out, right?

Then the next night, I watch Temple of Doom.

I walk out.

I'm like, that sucks.

Like, I was sort of like, am I crazy for having that opinion and he makes the whole okay no it's weird because it's dark and it's this and it's that but people do hate it and I was like oh interesting I had never caught wind of this right even in the like Star Trek you know oh the the odd number movies are bad and the evens are good kind of like I had never gathered that one of them was unpopular or at least more controversial right uh so then I was just like well I feel validated in my opinion that this is the one that sucks and then I watch Last Crusade and I'm like that one's my favorite because it's goofy and it's full of bits that's where my like opinions form in that first week.

It's full of bits too.

Brain bits.

Well, for you to normal.

So then I just held on to this, like, Temple of Doom sucks.

We all agree that Temple of Doom sucks, right?

And I feel like, especially in the last 10 or 15 years, I think there's been a rising as like the generation that saw it as children have taken over the discourse from the people who saw it as adults and were like, what the fuck is this?

And I feel more like an adult grump who's like, what the fuck is this?

It is the one I re-watch the most

Because I so badly want to lock into it.

And there are a couple

movies.

I don't know that it's a movie that anyone can really lock into.

I know there are some people who really like it.

I feel like there are a few people out here who are like, that is my favorite Indiana Jones movie, which is a good thing.

Which is a take.

It's certainly a take.

It's not one I have.

No, but I do know that some people like it, but I think it's a movie that kind of doesn't want you to lock into it.

So here's my thing.

I tend to to love movies like that to a degree where our listeners think that I am just a contrarian asshole, right?

But there is something that really activates me in a sequel that feels like it's biting the hands of the people asking for it, where any sort of like left-handed, we're zagging against your expectations, we're going darker, we're going weirder, we're withholding the thing you like the most movies, I tend to always lean in, even if I think they don't work.

There is like the Joker folly ado effect where I'm like, but what this movie's trying to do is really interesting to me.

That's the part of me that's surprised that I have such a struggle with this because I am usually such an easy lay for just the weird sort of like contrarian swing of an experimental sequel in any way.

But I wouldn't call this an experiment.

I think this is a movie that got away from them.

I think this is a movie that got away from them.

That's how it pleased me when I watch it.

I think this is a movie that makes a lot more sense when you realize that George Lucas and Spielberg were both like having crumbling marriages.

But same with like, that's how I feel about the abyss, where I'm like, this is a divorce movie.

This is a movie that's just made with a black cloud over someone's head.

And that's interesting.

But let's state this right from the top.

This is like the nadir of George Lucas's like personal life dissolving, right?

This is like

Marsha Lucas left him for the stained glass person or whatever.

Deep in the midst, right?

Has that come up before?

Never.

You know, people bring it up all the time on the Reddit, I want to say, right?

We've talked about this before, how I freak out at you about that.

It's mostly because we had absolutely no time yes because someone it was like fucking you know shannon o'neil was yeah i don't want to speak ill of the ucd network but it was time there was the matrix episodes where shannon o'neal knocked on the door and that's why both those episodes are two minutes long right but there was something it was something like that we had no time in our little closet am i wrong in thinking we recorded three episodes in that one day at least two like we were certainly like sandwiching episodes together anyway it's the other thing i always mentioned was that and everyone's always like david's just like cutting Griffin off.

And I was like, We were 40 minutes in, and like, we hadn't gotten to like Jabba's Palace or whatever.

Look, you need to wear this failure, like, Flavor Flavor wears a clock.

But that's what Alec Baldwin says in Aloha.

That sounds like a terrible one.

I've been trying to work it back into the vernacular of the podcast.

Blank check 10,

a decade of dreams.

Let's remember all the great moments.

Jesus Christ.

I forgot you guys did Cameron Crowd.

Yeah, we sure did.

That's why it's important.

That's why you need to point back at the wall, Olivia, and go, remember when?

Alec Baldwin says, you wear this like Florida Flavor's o'clock.

The point is.

What was my point?

I was trying to make a single window man.

Yeah, yeah, George Lucas is a little bit more.

Marshall,

George Lucas is in a dark as hell place.

Right.

But here is a timeline that everyone gets wrong that I just want to remind people of.

Steven Spielberg dates Amy Erming for most of the seven shows On and off, friend of the show.

And what I am saying is just public record.

This is not any inside information.

I've had no conversations with her about this.

No, we did not grill Amy Irving about this.

I'm just stating numbers.

Steven Spielberg, Amy Irving date on and off for most of the 70s, right?

Then there's like a more serious breakup in 1979.

Yes, big breakup.

Then in 1983, he films a movie called Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, starring Kate Capshaw as the female lead, a woman who we all now know is Steven Spielberg's longtime wife.

They've been married for 30 plus years.

And people are like, oh, that's where they met and they fell in love.

Do you know what happens in 1985?

Amy marries Amy the year after

impregnates her.

Yes.

And as Amy Irving told us, and I forget if we put it on mic, Barbara Streisand took full credit.

Yep.

Barbara Streisand takes credit.

That met me.

For getting them back together.

And for getting her knocked up specifically.

Said, you're going to get pregnant.

Yes.

Like, truly, Barbara Streisand was like, I willed this into existence.

And Amy Irving was like, no, you didn't.

We did cut one thing out of that episode that we'll tell you off my because you deserve to hear it.

Yes, it was incredible.

But yes, Mary, Temple of Doom released in 84.

Amy Irving married 85.

Their son, I think, is born later that year in 85 or 86.

Yep.

And then they don't divorce until 89.

Yep.

But then when does he marry Kate?

1991.

Okay.

But it's a little weird because he did meet her making this movie.

So, yeah, I don't know.

One of my favorite throwaway 30 rock jokes is when Kenneth tells Tracy, Steven Spielberg wants you to be in his next movie.

And Tracy says, Kate Capshaw's husband?

Incredible.

I think I've...

It's so stupid.

I think I've talked about this before, but my beloved departed IMDb message boards, what used to be the most unhinged place on the internet, where every single project or person who had any IMDb page had their own designated IMDb message board.

Any like random PA had their own designated message board.

And there was one guy who kept posting in the Kate Capshaw message boards.

I got this script that I really think has a perfect part for Kate.

Does anyone know how to get through to Kate?

I know she's been retired from acting.

She doesn't have representation anymore.

Is there any way to get through to Kate?

And this guy would post this like once every six months, and people would go, We fucking get it, man.

You're trying to get Steven Spielberg to read your script.

And he'd go, I am not

always loved Kate as an actor.

Does anyone know if maybe because she doesn't have representation, who I contacted,

her home address might be, or I could drop it off.

Maybe I don't know.

What does her husband do?

Is he home a lot?

Could I hand the script off to him?

All I'm saying is

it's more the Lucas divorce movie than it is the Spielberg divorce movie.

Well, it's not the Spielberg divorce movie.

Because everyone knows, oh, he was with Amy Irving, and then he was with Kate Capshaw, people assume his marriage to Amy Irving is falling apart and out of the Phoenix comes Kate Capshaw.

When in fact the timeline of that whole thing is very bizarre.

But it's like he's coming off of several years of being ostensibly single.

He meets her, then he gets back together with his his old on and off girlfriend, has a child, divorces, gets together with Kate Caps.

Hollywood's so messed up.

Whatever's going on with Steven Spielberg at this time is not divorce shit.

I just think that needs to be cleanly stated.

Let's open the dossier to just get more into this.

Okay.

Ben.

What's up, Griff?

This is an ad break.

Yeah.

And I'm just, this isn't a humble brag.

It's just a fact of the matter.

Despite you being on mic, oftentimes, when sponsors buy ads based on this podcast, the big thing they want is personal host endorsement.

They love that they get a little bonus ben on the ad read, but technically that's not what they're looking for.

But something very different is happening right now.

That's true.

We had a sponsor come in and say, we are looking for the coveted Ben Hosley endorsement.

This is laser targeted.

The product.

We have a copy that asks, is the product a porch movie?

It certainly is.

And what is today's episode sponsored by the toxic avenger the new toxic adventure movie is coming to theaters august 29th macon blair's remake of reimagining reimagining whatever uh reboot of the toxic avenger now david and i have not got to see it yet but they sent you a screener link yeah i'm gonna see it we're excited to see it but ben you texted us last night this fucking rules it fucks it honks yeah it's so great let me read you the cast list here in in billing order as they asked which i really appreciate peter dinkledge jacob tremblay tremblay taylor page with elijah wood okay and kevin bacon tremblay is toxie's son his stepson his stepson okay uh wade goose yes great name give us the takes we haven't heard them yet okay you got Fucking Dinklage is fantastic.

He's talking.

He plays it with so much heart.

It's such a lovely performance.

Bacon is in the pocket too, man.

He's the bad guy.

He's the bad guy.

There's a lot of him shirtless.

Okay.

Looking like a snack.

David, sizzling.

Yep.

And then Elijah Wood plays like a dang-ass freak.

He certainly does.

He's having a lot of fun.

Tell us some things you liked about the movie.

Okay, well, I'm a Jersey guy.

I just got to say, the original movie was shot in the town where I went to high school.

Trump.

Yes.

Yes, that's right.

The original film.

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with my sleazy and sticky friends.

It informed so much of my sensibility your friends like junkyard dog and headbanger yeah exactly making toxic crusader jokes and so when i heard that they were doing this new installment i was really emotionally invested

it was in limbo for a while before our friends at cineverse rescued it and are now releasing it uncut but i feel like there have been years of you being very excited at the prospect but also a little weary They're playing with fire here.

Yeah, it's just it's something that means a lot to me.

And they knocked it out of the fucking park.

Okay.

It somehow really captured that sensibility, that sense of humor, even just that like lo-fi, scrappy kind of nature that's inherent in all of the trauma movies and the original Toxie movies.

And they have like updated in this way that it was just, I was so pleased with it.

It's gooey.

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It's really fucking funny.

It just, it hits all of the sensibilities that you would want in an updated version.

Cineverse last year released Terrifier 3 unrated.

Yeah.

Big risk for them there.

I feel like it's a very, very intense movie.

And a huge hit.

More interesting, yeah, theatrical box office phenomenons the last five years.

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And Ben, it just says here in the copy, wants to call out that Elijah Wood plays a weird little guy who says Summon the Nuts.

Can you tell us anything about that moment without spoiling it?

Summon the Nuts is in reference to a

psychotic new metal band.

Hell yeah.

Who are mercenaries, cool, and drive a van

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Okay, and they are the most dang-ass freaks of dang-ass freaks.

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Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Successful.

Perfect movie.

Big hit to me.

And because of its success, really never any doubt that it would have a sequel.

And Lucas had always envisioned sequels, just like those old Republic serials that always had sequels.

Well, and as we discussed, when Lucas presented this idea to Spielberg, I got an idea.

I'd love for you to direct it.

There's a handshake agreement of, but if you're doing this, you got to make three of them.

I want this to be an ongoing series, but it is a handshake deal.

He has control deals with other people.

Paramount is committed to three.

I think Ford's committed to three.

Is that correct?

Yes.

But Spielberg's just a handshake.

But Spielberg also says that George had said, Well, I have ideas for other movies.

And then when George was like, it's time for another movie, he didn't have any ideas for any other movies.

Weird.

George Lucas starts pitching ideas.

So George Lucas told people publicly that he had ideas

big, long,

it all.

The pod racing was always there.

This just doesn't sound like my man.

He pitches an idea centered around a haunted castle in Scotland.

I mean, I like that.

Sounds cool.

I think that sounds cool.

What's Bilberg?

Sounds like it would be less racist.

Racist in a fun way.

It's Scottish.

We all could all laugh at that.

The accents would be like funny.

No one would ever be surrendered by Shrek.

Exactly.

Has a single

complaint about the representation in Tottenham.

He should do a Shrek-Indiana Jones crossover.

Indiana Jones is a sound.

That sounds like the kind of poisonous shit that Hollywood would love to make.

So Spielberg's like, Deadline said Olivia has just been placed

in the charge of Paramount Picture.

Well, now.

Yeah, but now Dreamworks is owned by Universal.

Oh, you're right.

It's turning Universal.

Spielberg had just worked on Poltergeist.

He doesn't want to do a ghost story.

Oh, sure.

So instead, George throws the ideas to Willard.

How do you say his name?

Huck.

Yeah.

And Gloria Katz, who obviously wrote American Graffiti with him and go on to make Howard Harris.

Yes.

And I think.

And I think they'd done a little work on Star Wars.

They'd absolutely done work on Star Wars.

They were just go-to married couple, writer team friends.

And they pitched an idea called Indiana Jones and the Temple of Death.

Submitting a 20-page story treatment that was set in India.

They were very interested in Indian culture.

They traveled there.

They were collecting Indian art.

And they were also really looking at the movie Gungadin, which, of course, is a really sensitive and textured portrayal of life in India.

But I guess like that kind of an adventure story, right?

And then, you know, the Himalayas or something.

Now, let me say, Willie and Gloria, I think their main role in the Lucasfilm ecosystem for many years was they were the people who understood characters and how human beings talked and were the ones who put some sort of reasonable semblance of recognizable human emotion into his movies.

Interesting.

The times they were credited versus the times they were not.

I think they were always that sort of counter-that was their role, sure.

For them to be the primary writers on this, I don't think they were usually the ones who were figuring out story beats.

or the world building or all of that, right?

Like Lawrence Kasden was pretty unique in having a mind for both of those things.

I think Kasden for him was kind of one of those hires of like, you handle this shit and then I'll put the Lucas on top of it.

Right.

Or I give you the Lucas Diff and you write within that story.

didn't we offer it to kasden first kasdan was i think we'll get to it but kazden was just not interested and i think he they also like said like indiana jones and the temple of death is set in india and kasden was immediately turned off right but we'll talk about but kasdan's career is also like he's hot yeah yeah he's getting hot but uh it's just i i re-watching it again when the opening credits come up i was just like oh right it's just the two of them credited as the writers there are other people credited for story but it's a little surprising that it's just the two of them.

So

they start to kind of be like, well, we could do all the stuff we wanted to do before.

Steve, didn't you always want to do a musical sequence?

We could do like a Busby

Berkeley musical.

George, didn't you want Indy to like wear a suit and go to a nightclub and kind of be like a sexy guy?

Like be James Bond?

Right, we can do that.

And like, right, Steve, didn't you always want to do a James Bond movie?

We can like kind of do a James Bond thing where we start in another mission before we start our main mission.

It's like an appetizer sampler platter of a movie.

Yes.

When this movie starts, which is when all of that stuff happens, I'm kind of on board.

You're on the board.

The first 10 minutes is

awesome.

The first 20 minutes, I would say, or at least 15, I love.

And every time I'm like, am I going to 100% lock in?

And then it falls off for me.

But beyond that, when I look back at it, I'm like, everything I like in the first 15 minutes is not really a good Indiana Jones movie.

No, it just starts this kind of movie.

It's just well made.

Good movie.

A good musical number and then a great James Bond sequence.

I love the musical number.

I think it's so fun.

I think it's so well-directed.

I think it's crazy that it took him so long to make a musical movie.

It is crazy.

He should have made one per decade.

Like, he really should have kept.

Yeah.

He clearly wanted or like loves the form of, like, is good at it.

I mean, look, the whole thing.

It's kind of the peak of Kate Capshaw's performance.

It is.

It's the best she's.

I mean, it's probably why she was cast because she's good at that shit.

Yeah, but I'd also argue it's a problem because it starts so hot and then the second she isn't singing.

I'm like, what the fuck?

She starts singing.

There's a thing where he like leaves in this bit where she sort of trips going up the platform too, that I think is so

charming and fun.

And then Indiana Jones throws a bunch of flaming ducks at a guy on the spear.

I like all that.

Like all of that stuff is really good.

Yeah.

The whole thing with Temple of Do, my entire take, is you are in the hands of a master pretty much the whole time.

That's why it's very watchable.

Like his grasp of everything at this point is total.

Steven Tom is like a 10 out of 10 action filmmaker.

Yeah.

And he's making a very fast-paced action movie.

And whenever that's happening, you're pretty, it's good.

Yes.

And then people will like talk and there's a plot and it kind of

huge mistakes on that.

Here's the thing that like is weird to me from the jump from the beginning is that in that first scene in the restaurant, he's exchanging that like monkey figurine thing for a diamond, which doesn't make sense with who we know Indiana would be way more interested in the fucking monkey yeah he would want to take that to a museum like the idea that like we know this guy to be professor by day and like adventurer by other day is completely kind of thrown away I think I agree I think the characterization is totally wrong well sort of the argument of like oh maybe he's learning how to be indie but they're not how many years old raiders is this supposed to be uh it's a good question i guess guess it's like six or seven, right?

Like not many.

There is a Chiron, is there not?

Yeah, I mean, it's 1935.

I'm just trying to remember when Raiders takes place.

Oh, 42.

1936.

Okay, so yeah, fuck me.

It's just right before Raiders.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

But even still, I remember.

watching it when the year comes up and going like, wait a second, doing the math, being like, this is a prequel.

And then I go, oh, so this is going to be that story.

This is how Indiana Jones became Indiana Jones.

That is not a movie they're interested in making.

I even was like, oh, the reason Short Round is in this movie is because Short Round's going to experience a tragic death.

This is going to be something that forms him.

We're seeing the sidekick that he lost before we met him previously.

No, incidental.

By all accounts, the only reason this is a prequel and not a sequel is that Spielberg didn't want to do Nazis.

He didn't want to do Nazis.

And

I guess, well, let me keep going on this.

Okay.

Okay.

George Lucas has already made Empire Strikes Back.

So he's like, we should do what I did there again, where it says a darker movie.

It's spookier.

Let's do this like, you know, death cult thing, thing, right?

Let's just, let's lean into the darkness.

And I'm going to put the world's biggest pin in that.

Famously, the darker tone of Temple of Doom is ascribed to a few things.

One, George Lucas' divorce from Marsha Lucas.

Two, Steven Spielberg's breakup with on-again, off-again, Bo, Amy Irving, friend of the show, past guest, future guest.

Three, and

JJ was really hammering this, as you said, Twilight's on the movie.

What a horrible experience

Spielberg had being associated with that, the death of Vic Vic Mauro, and all that stuff.

It's not like Spielberg was present for the death of Vic Mauro, but nonetheless, his name's on the movie.

He basically willed that movie into being and then had to make a very haunted, terrible segment afterwards to complete his contractual obligations.

But I think was just like deeply wounded by the entire

traumatized.

Lucas and Spielberg candidly say afterwards, like we were in bad moods.

We look back at the movie and we're like, maybe we took this to a bit of a dark extreme.

Like we were, you know, kind of in a whatever.

Kind of, you know, Paul had been cast over things.

But I agree with JJ's assessment that I do think the core darkness from Spielberg's end is coming from the shadow of Twilight's own the movie.

Spielberg's personal life.

Another shadow he's dealing with, which is the first time he's making a sequel.

And so you've got all the pressures of making a sequel to a beloved, gigantic hit.

And it's not like Star Wars where there's like, you know, like, yeah, we're going to keep going.

Like, what are Midichlorians?

No one's told me yet.

Can someone tell me?

Does anyone know?

Indiana Jones, it's like, yes, you could make more, but

the movie doesn't end with like, then what happens?

So can I take my giant pen out here because you've set this up now?

I get what Lucas is saying, especially because Empire Strikes Back is a triumph.

Even if at the time it was received with a little bit of confusion,

not as extreme as Temple of Doom, but people were like, what's this?

Why is it such a bummer?

Why is it on a cliffhanger?

Whatever, right?

I get him being like, storytelling rules.

Act two needs to be the dip so there's a place for the heroes to come back and recover.

I think that's fundamentally wrong for Indiana Jones, which is designed to be like serialized standalone adventures.

It is not about character growth.

That makes sense if you're making a trilogy of stories that are telling one greater sovereign.

I agree, sure.

Which by design is not what he's trying to do.

So I'm like, you can't do the middle, darker entry when you're like, all of these are just whatever.

They're adventures.

I think the point becomes even less powerful when you're making it a prequel.

So you're like, oh, it's the mid-dark chapter before his like ultimate, you know, victory at the end.

And I'm like, no, you're putting his darker stuff at the beginning, which if you're going to do that, then it's intentionally, I think, you got to do the like sort of casino royale, what made him shit, which this movie is not doing at all.

Completely uninteresting.

Last Crusade does a better job of 20 minutes of that at the beginning, which is one of my favorite sequences.

That's a great sequence.

Right.

But I'm like, you could start this from the place of like...

Indiana Jones is an adult man, but here's how the persona grew, right?

He had this sidekick, he lost.

Like anytime, the first time I'm watching this film, it sets up up an element that I know isn't present Raiders.

I'm like, there's going to be some narrative beat to explain what changed him.

There's no payoff from the fact that it's a prequel.

It gains nothing.

It's completely.

You could just, you could say that it's relationships he makes.

I think it's truly avoiding two things.

I think they were like, A, don't want to make another Nazi movie.

And B,

Doing another movie after Raiders with a different female lead

will piss people off because they like Marion and we don't want to make a movie of him in a serious relationship.

So, said it earlier, which doesn't help them because now we're going to sit here going, Who the fuck is this?

And why isn't she Marion?

Remember how we all loved her?

Remember how we love that like cool woman who

is being an Indian of Jones movies who wasn't like, stop the movie.

Um, Kate Capshot made a movie called A Little Sex.

Oh, boy.

Wait a second.

I'm interested.

I don't know if this movie has just a little.

Why stop there?

That's better than nothing.

That's true.

A Bruce Paltrow movie of course okay um

and uh was not interested uh in making a franchise you know sequel movie or whatever but then she auditioned and she met this steven spielberg guy was kind of charmed by him anyway they ended up getting married and all that yeah um

uh you know

what i mean

what

It's just sort of like I feel like Spielberg trying to like rationalize what he was doing and the kind of acting he was looking for.

I'm just kind of like out of her.

You can't talk about how your wife is kind of bad in this movie.

No, you know, so it's like, I'm never going to get a quote from Spielberg about Kate Capshaw and Indiana Jones in the town.

I feel like if you

were getting like, if you were like friends with Kate Capshaw and it came up, she would be like, I think so.

This is not.

I think she would.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And she would be like, huh, what happened to my career?

I guess fucking, you know, and I think she had good performances afterwards.

That's what I'm saying.

Yeah.

But nonetheless, it's kind of like what defines Kate Caps.

Here's my other thing is that I think that it is not a well-written role.

Thank you.

She does not have much to work with.

It is not, she doesn't have much to work with and she doesn't do a great job of pulling out what they're like.

My thing is that if this were Goldie Hahn, we would.

I mean, I've been sitting on this for two weeks.

If this were Goldie Hahn, or if it were a couple years later and it was Meg Ryan, we would all,

it would be kind of a different movie.

But Goldie Han was my exact one that I've been doing.

It is so obviously supposed to be Goldie Hahn.

He's in her first movie.

We do the Sugarland episode.

We're like, it's kind of weird.

He never worked with her ever again.

I mean, she's too famous, I guess.

For Indiana Jones?

I don't think so.

The whole time, I'm just.

Sequels are not cool back then.

Yeah, but it's Indiana Jones.

Star Wars has

destigmatized sequels a little bit, right?

And what they're going to get at for the third movie is, hey, two legends on the poster.

They get to that.

They do.

They should have gotten there on this one.

I think if it's Goldie Han, the role probably gets beefed up.

Yeah.

And

she is so naturally funny.

This is funny that it, like, the whole thing with like, oh, the elephant is like playing with her hair and all the physical comedy, all of that stuff would be so much better just due to the fact that it is like one of the most naturally gifted

humans ever.

She is the exact name I landed on.

And I'm like, I still think this character is misconceived yes i think she's misconceived as a character but also misconceived in relation to the movie in terms of what makes an indiana jones movie work she is playing against a lot of what they need to motor this film across the the her existence willie scott as a character the whole time she is just there to kind of get in the way yes which is not a good character she's a video game character keeps like walking in front of your gun and the game is like protect willie scott and you're like well, she should stop walking in front of her.

Yeah, it's like, oh, it's like she can't help them because she's like scared of slimy stuff.

And it's like, that is not.

This lives in my head forever.

But Ben Edlin would always talk about this when we were working on the tick because he was trying to make a TV series with a refusal of the call arc.

And he was like, it's always the struggle of not creating characters who exist to try to stop the show from happening.

Right, because then you're going to hate them.

That's the thing.

Yeah.

It's like the whole audience.

If there's a narrative purpose for that tension, the audience is like, fuck this guy.

Go away.

Why is she being such a bummer?

And Willie Scott is like a perfect example of a character who's like, I hate this.

Stop this.

Let me out of the movie.

And I think it's like, I get that you have Marion in the first movie and she's cool and she can do her own thing and she's brunette.

And so the next one, you're like, how do we make

a difference?

What if she was blonde and couldn't do anything?

It's the classic sequel thing of we should do the opposite of what we did last year.

It's like maybe we should find like a redhead with a skill.

Like that is maybe the middle down.

There are other ways to go.

Right, do the Witcher thing.

Yeah.

Witcher 3, of course, the greatest video game of all time.

All the ladies are confident.

They're just different.

Brunette, black hair.

They're so different.

Blah.

But look, we talk about this in the Raiders episode.

It becomes clear to them that they're like, we had lightning in a bottle with Marion.

No one wants to see him fall in love with anyone else, right?

So the third movie makes the woman like a fake out and makes it a two-hander with his dad.

Yes.

And then the fourth movie makes it two-hander with his son and brings Marion back.

And then the fifth movie.

It's all up.

I have not seen, I have not dialed in.

You want to dial in?

Should I get that rotary phone?

That's why you're the best, Olivia, because you like to turn the titles into verbs.

Do you agree post-Conclave?

Because this was a Olivia thing that Tuchi has the touch against.

Okay, I'm glad we're talking about this.

I do think that Conclave brought the Tuchi touch back.

It was the first time in a while that I was in the back of the shop.

It was the first time in a while.

I was pushing against my shoulder.

I was like, hello.

Who's touching me?

Yeah.

Touchy?

It's a tickle.

It's a tickle of the touchy.

I hope moving forward that he feels that.

I'm concerned because he's not getting a lot of

awards.

He's not getting like nah.

But can I say this?

I think that might be a good thing.

Sure, get him.

Get him hungry for it.

Right.

I think if there is.

Unless he wants a James Beard award for making spaghetti all the time, all sexy.

Well, he does clearly want one of those.

I think he does.

Rolling up the sleeves, getting his hands all flowery.

I think

there is an understandable impulse to over praise and laud him for giving us a little bit of the magic back.

And I was like, is he gonna fucking like have too good of an Oscar season where then he's happy just being at this level?

Yeah, which I'm like, Conclave's not your best work, my man, but you're getting back in the spirit of the world.

But he really has like, uh, yeah, he's doing what you like.

And that's used to give us one of those a year, totally, and now it's like the first and kind of three or four.

Right.

And I want to make him work a little harder to win his eventual Oscar.

Yeah, exactly.

He does need one.

He does.

He should have won for Spotlight.

Yes.

I mean, he's incredible in Spotlight.

One of the great movies.

He's incredible.

And I mean, I don't know.

It's a good question.

What do I give?

Do I give Tucci a win?

I am.

He's amazing.

I was going back through my records and I'm like, in retrospect, I give Tucci the win for the Spotlight year, a year where on Mike, I, of course, gave supporting actor to Michael Shannon for the night before.

That's crazy.

He is so good in Spotlight.

He's also incredible in in the Double Wares product.

Yeah.

And that's the true supporting character.

When is this episode coming out?

That's just such a good question.

March, April.

Kind of question that I can answer by opening the spreadsheet.

I think probably

by the time this comes out, there will have been a ton of category fraud at the Oscars, which usually I'm not upset about, but this year.

You're basically saying Kieran Culkin will have won an Oscar.

I think Kieran Culkin will have won an Oscar.

I think it's crazy that Zoe Seldania is being pitched as a supporting actress when she is the lead of that movie.

She is.

That movie didn't work for me.

I sort of know what they're saying with, like, no, Amelia Perez is the main character.

She's certainly the title.

She's

the title.

And yes, Zoe Seldana is all over the movie, but she's kind of the narrator.

Zoe Seldana is the best performance in that movie.

She's really good at it.

Because she's the only thing where I'm like, because me watching that movie, I'm like, what the fuck is going on here, guys?

And she's the only one who's like, that's a really good impression of you watching that movie.

You just transported to a different place.

I I kind of, she's kind of making me buy it sometimes.

Yeah.

I still haven't watched it.

Oh, you need to watch it.

Yeah.

But here's the thing I think back on.

I'm like,

you pull up the 1995 Academy Award nominations and you're like, Morgan Freeman for best actor.

We used to be a proper country.

The bullshit they'd be pulling today to go like, oh, Shawshank is one lead, one supporting.

They would pull that.

So I just.

And you're like, that man ended up where he belonged.

A deserved nomination.

No category fraud.

What were you going to say?

I just think the Academy needs to open their third eye and realize that sometimes a movie is about two men and they can both be the lead.

Impossible.

Or perhaps even two women.

Oh, well, that's crazy.

Well, that's mine.

I know.

That kind of

sexual nonsense doesn't happen in our Hollywood movies.

Two women.

Emilia Perez and lawyer.

I forget her name.

Lawyer person?

I watched the movie like three days ago and I don't remember her name anyway just one of those movies where i'm like i think this movie is taking itself deeply seriously it's it's a french guy like that

i mean how how

better to put it i i hate to be anti-french but whenever they make a movie that like makes its way over here yeah it's like

what is

what are you guys doing over there

yeah if indiana jones went to france and did some french shit and the movie was making fun of french people yeah we'd all be hooting and hollering we would actually if it was like, okay, wait.

He's serving them snails.

And it was like, oh, we'd be like, ah, French people are weird.

Fuck this.

The movie would have aged perfectly.

Okay, Capstone's going to be like, ah,

frogs legs.

That's good.

If Catherine Deneuve is playing Willie Scott.

And there's so much old shit in France.

Yeah.

Okay.

I mean, you guys are so desperate for Indiana chose to go to a castle.

I mean, Harrison Ford's

84 or whatever.

Here's what I'm over there.

I was actually desperate for as I was watching this movie.

I was like, I could could just watch a movie that's like a guy going on an adventure every year.

And that sort of thing.

We don't get enough of it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, obviously.

Obviously, there's like James Bond.

That doesn't count.

Because James Bond now, it's like he's haunted by trauma and women.

Yeah.

And like he has to wear the right watch and drive a Jaguar.

I'm not like anti-franchise, but I want a new one.

I want like a new character.

Or I just want the Brendan Fraser mummy where they're just like, we're kind of doing Indiana Jones and we'll mix it with a couple other things and enjoy.

And I'm like, I will.

Thank you very much.

But isn't the other problem here that like these movies need to justify?

They won't make these movies unless they think they can be billion dollar movies, which means they need to cost $300 million, which means they need to be 10 things.

This is part of the problem, but it's like, why?

Like, okay, you know, there's that tweet about how like there's the Marvel movies that are fun to take drugs and watch, and then there's the baseball cap ones, right?

The baseball cap ones.

Yeah, like where, and it's just a picture of Chris Evans in a baseball cap where you're like, why is like half this movie just like people in clothes?

Like, isn't this supposed to be about superheroes?

Are those the ones where they're like, this is the parallax view?

Yeah, you know, exactly.

But like, it's kind of inspired by a 70s conspiracy throw.

I'm like, it looks like a fucking Epson commercial, but okay.

And like, that's like, why is the Tom Cruise mummy?

It's like, it's like about a guy in pants and a shirt.

Right.

Like, why is it not about, you know, why, why didn't you look at the Brendan Fraser mummy and go like, yeah, people like throwbacks and whatever.

i'm sure i'm sure brent the mummy returns once again has been announced by the time right like that that's in the works i keep hearing things yeah come on it feels obvious but um no the willie scott conversation right uh i agree it's like the idea is wrong for what kind of how do we make this different from marion it works against the movie in trying to solve it in my mind i was like the only way this works is if it's like goldejan is the only name that comes to mind who could have done this, but someone who has a pre-existing comedic persona.

What about Shelly Long?

I think that would maybe work.

Yeah, I think it could maybe work.

I'm trying to think about people at that moment.

Well, here's my argument, okay?

Like, Shelly Long, I think, could have performed it well, but would still struggle to overcome some of the characterization.

Right.

What about Dana Wheeler Nicholson, Fletch?

Oh, yeah.

I like that.

My point is, but I'm biased.

Yeah.

This being post-private Benjamin, right?

If the poster is, hey, it's Indiana Jones and Goldie Han, and Goldie Han's holding up like a broken high heel and she's got like a sideways smirk, the audience goes, I get it.

I know what I'm paying to see.

I know what this is.

I can play it out my mind.

Here's the funny scenario, right?

Goldie probably plays it as well as anyone could and also probably has enough clout to be able to like push back and make like story contributions, whatever, which Shelly Long would not have, but also just puts the audience at ease of, I get it, it's a Goldie Han type.

That's the version of it that probably works the best.

Sure.

But you're talking about something that my guess is Goldie Han's off making swing shift, and she's like, No, I am Goldie Han, the entire brand, and I will not be some lady who's hanging out with me.

It has to be someone who is as iconic as Haroldson Fitzgerald.

Kate Capshaw.

What do you think of it?

And then she got a beautiful long marriage out of it

seven years later.

Now, here's the other thing: as you said, that like apparently one of their kids is fucking

about to dump.

I don't want to dox your boyfriend, but he's out of here.

Spielberg seems loath to say anything critical about her performance in the press, which I get, yeah.

Of course.

I would be, here's the thing: if I'm Kate Capshaw, I would be like, I can say I'm bad in this movie.

My husband, who directed this movie, is not allowed to say that.

But there's this other aspect to it, which is just, and like Brian was talking about this in our Raiders episode when you watched the behind the scenes of the movie.

And he's like, come on, do this scene with the bugs.

Come on.

And he's like being flirty and like making bargains with her.

But they can't be like, this is the movie where we met and fell in love because it's kind of not.

There's that part of it.

And even if no lines were crossed on set in 1983, right?

It is clear that the two of them have like a flirtation with each other that is getting in the way of perhaps the most disciplined processing of work.

Like, I think he is directing her differently than he has directed any other actor he has ever worked with.

Well, okay, yes, because the thing about him is that there aren't really like bad performances in Steven Spielberg movies so that this kind of sticks out

so

like it's like Justin Chatwin in War of the Worlds, right?

It rarely happens in the

Julia Roberts and Hook, which is a notorious, like both of them now go, we were going through our own shit and that was a bad deal.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What do you think of Julia Roberts and Hook?

I mean, I was a child, so I kind of liked what was going on there.

I haven't really watched it as an adult, but Olivia, on set, they called her Tinker Hell.

Well, here's.

Well, that's just too easy a joke.

So they had to be.

I think Julia Roberts in the 90s seems like she had a lot of stuff going on.

She had so much fucking...

It's so crazy how she had so much stuff going on and then she like monastically swore off of stuff.

Like, you know, she was like, I'm done with stuff going on.

She's basically been stuff-free for 25 years.

She'll show up and things and you're like, hey, it's Julia.

And she lives like a very chill life.

But also, like, you know, she falls in love with a married cinematographer on the set of a movie, breaks it down.

That's the

marries him, has twins.

That didn't really constitute stuff.

Like at the time, that was a process as well.

Well, she wore that bitchy t-shirt, which is kind of stuff.

It was treated a little bit as like, thank God, Julia finally found love.

Yeah.

Everyone's just kind of happy for her.

I do think there's a rewriting of the Julia narrative where people are like, in 1990, she becomes a movie star and remained a movie star.

And it's like, there are five years where people were like, shut the fuck up.

Go to jail.

They were so tired of her in the press.

They were tired of the movies.

They were tired of her whole thing.

And then she just like rebounded so hard 97 to 2001.

It's one of the great runs.

Yeah.

Anyway, she's not in this movie.

Kay Kwan's in this movie, of course.

He was

his brother auditioned.

Yes.

And he tagged along.

Kathleen Kennedy was like, I like that kid.

Gets him in front of Steven Spielberg.

He dresses up.

right like he was like in a little suit for this meeting and they were like steven's like please come back looking more casual Like, this is not what we were thinking.

Yeah, comes back as more of a kid, and Steven Spoker's like, you got the problem.

I mean, he is, he's really good, so precious.

He's so cute.

I also think, here's my other, my other, so not to shit on Kate Capshaw so much, to shit on Willie Scott, actually.

Yeah, yeah, that's her thing.

I want to make it clear: Willie Scott's a problem, yes, and Kate Capshaw is only partially responsible.

Okay, here's my, with the, with the three of them,

Harrison Ford has so much more chemistry with Kihu Kwan than he does with Kate Capshaw.

And so, like, this this is the first time.

I want to see just them two

for the movie.

I think you're right, but here's the thing that's right, even crazier.

It's like Templo Doom, everyone's like, no one likes that because it added an annoying kid sidekick.

And everyone's like, actually, no, Short Round kind of works.

The kid's not the problem.

And I feel like at the time, maybe there was a little bit of grousing about, like, oh, kid sidekick.

Like, George Lucas, always, you know, these days, everything's so kid-friendly.

But Short Round completely works.

I think so.

It's an incredibly lovely natural performance.

And like you say, Harrison Ford has genuine chemistry with him.

It's just weird that that's not the problem with this movie.

I'm like, I would rather see this movie with I'd rather see this movie

taking place after Raiders

with Marion.

Sure.

And the entire short-round arc happens in it.

Like the attempted pickpocketing happens.

Yeah.

Like, I just feel like their arc starts in exactly the wrong place.

They are really good together.

But in a movie where the romantic relationship is a disaster, you'd rather see that relationship develop as a new thing and grow over the course of a movie rather than just have him be like, here's my guy.

I do love when he, the reveal of Short Round where there's a kid driving the car.

I mean, it's

your potatoes.

Look, let's also say it is a lot like, it is a much nicer experience watching this movie now on the other side of like Keiyi Kwan's like ultimate triumph comeback shit, where I do, it didn't feel like haunted before, but but there was this feeling of watching this movie for a long time and being like, and what the fuck happened to him?

I mean, he's in the goonies.

Well, he was so big for a couple of years in the 80s to watch this film in the 90s or the 2000s or the 2010s, you were a little like, hey, I'm glad he didn't die of a drug overdose, but it's a little bit weird that this guy disappeared.

And now it just feels like triumphant.

Great.

It does.

Yeah.

It's odd.

I know they considered putting him in Dial of Destiny, and James Mangold,

who often has really good instincts on this stuff, was like, eh, that's like shitty Lega sequel stuff.

Like, I don't want to do it.

But it's kind of crazy he did not come back for either Lega sequel.

No, it's crazy.

Like, Crystal Skull, I guess he had not really re-emerged as an adult actor yet.

But, like, why is he not in Dial of Destiny?

No, no, I agree with you.

But also, I mean, if I'm not mistaken, because

whatchamacallit?

Everything, Everywhere, All At Once finishes filming, I think, January 2020.

Right.

It took a while to come out because of the pandemic.

I believe all of Principal Photography was finished on Dial of Destiny before

Everything Everywhere came out.

Oh, really?

Oh, okay.

Okay.

But I know they considered it.

Of course.

Like, they definitely

considered it before, but he was not on their radar as look how good this guy is now.

Well, they should.

Even still, Region considered it, or they should have found

Dawn to preshoots.

Like, I'm like, Indiana Jones and the Star 69.

Well,

what's another phone thing?

That's the one.

Paul Waiting.

Yeah, 69.

Okay, fine.

Forget it.

1800 Collect.

Yeah, Roshan Seth.

That was him then.

Who plays the Bellic.

Thanks, Olivia.

Sort of

the face villain in a way, right?

Like, you know.

Great face on that guy.

You're talking about Mala Ram?

No, I am not.

That's

what I'm talking about.

The prime minister guy, you know, the guy at the dinner.

Oh, sure.

Who's sort of the Belloc equivalent?

He feels bad about this movie a little bit.

Yeah.

Because obviously this movie was widely castigated at the time for being kind of like retrograde in its presentation of India and like the sort of evil exoticism.

Right.

Yeah.

And he's like, we really, I really think the whole point of like the banquet scene and stuff was a joke about that.

It's like they are leaning into stereotypes.

Like, you know, they think

Westerners only, exactly, would only expect like this kind of stuff.

And I think that stuff's just too subtle for that movie.

George Lucas, on the other hand, is kind of like, yeah, we're kind of like doing the Abbott and Costello or like Thin Man, like this kind of old-fashioned humor.

George Lucas like loves old-fashioned

humor.

And then he points to the stuff he loves, and you're like, that's just abject racism.

It's like, George, it's different now.

I mean, that's George Lucas's defense about everything, where he's just like, what?

It's fun.

Who cares?

It's for children.

Fuck you.

Yes.

But it's also not even like.

a good joke.

It doesn't work.

It's not like something where someone could be like, that's racist, but someone else could equally be like, but it's so funny.

This scene is so endless.

It's so.

It's just got 20 beats.

And just the snake thing doesn't make sense.

Oh, the snakes inside?

Yeah.

Yeah.

How did it make surprise?

But also.

Or is the snake pregnant?

But you're supposed to be like, did they cook the snake?

This is a dish.

What am I?

Am I supposed to eat the live snakes that are escaping or is supposed to eat the husks of the dead snakes?

The thing is like,

you can't do this with India, a country that is famous for having like some of the greatest.

Yeah, I know that it doesn't make any

look.

They should just be eating dolls.

Also, the snake bit happens, and Willie's freaking out, right?

Short round's freaking out.

Indy's the guy at the table who's like pretty calm and civil and is like, your monkey brains or whatever, right?

And I'm like, God, watch how hard he's going to flip out when he sees the snakes.

He's acting like he's above it all.

When he says,

he never clocks the fucking snakes.

I'm like, what are we doing here?

What's the point?

So, my other problem with Temple of Doom, I said this to Olivia already.

Yeah.

I don't know if you agree with her.

Does this movie take place over like eight hours?

It's weirdly like the pacing of it is very odd, where it's like, we're right from this, you know, initial set piece, right?

Then we're in the plane, then we crash, and then it's like, now we're in India.

What's the deal in India?

Well, there's this thing going on with the kids.

I've been taken by this cult.

And Indiana Jones is like on it.

And then he's like, right on it.

And then that's kind of that.

Yes.

And I'm like, so this just took place over like a couple of days, maybe?

It seems like they travel from the top of Mount Everest

to India in 10 minutes.

Yes.

So there's almost no timeframe.

It's a literal part where it's just like there is snow on the ground and then there is not.

But it's also most of it is not very propulsive, which is

the most impressive thing about Raiders, right?

It's just like how it keeps fucking moving and moving in a way that feels justified.

Whereas setting up the sort of like proper Rube Goldberg machine cause and effect thing, this movie opens with your classic Indiana Jones cold open adventure sequence.

And then in the part in Raiders, where he has to go back home and teach and meet with Brody and get assigned the next mission, the sort of like moment to rest and reset to show the other side of his personality, which is really important, which this movie in its design fucks up, basically leaves out of the equation.

I feel like him at the dinner table is them trying to get in Professor Jones mode.

Right.

Right.

Oh, I'm going to change to a suit and I'm going to talk in a very quiet voice and not do action movie stuff.

And I'm like, but it doesn't work here.

You're not doing the like what I said in our Raiders episode of like the thing I think is so good about the characterization of Indiana Jones is that his professor persona is not a persona.

It's not an act.

It's not a Clark Kent misdirect.

Both of these are valid sides of his personality.

This movie starts with him in James Bond mode, not even an Indiana Jones adventure mode.

Full James Bond mode.

Tuxedo.

Tuxedo, white tuxedo, right?

Escapes by the skin of his teeth.

A great sequence.

Yeah.

Right.

At the Obi-Wan cafe or whatever.

Right.

Jumps out the window, short round is driving, and then just like the movie's off and running now.

He's off and running.

He's trying to escape.

He gets on the plane.

He's with Willie Scott.

They crash land.

Now they're given their new assignment, but the new assignment isn't like, you got to keep running.

People are after you.

No, it's go save these children in this place.

And it is kind of a James Bond mission.

Like, go have dinner with the villain, go get the lay of the land, uncover the evil beneath.

Yes.

Blow everything.

This one's so much more structured like a James Bond movie than the rules they had established for what an Indiana Jones movie is and how it's different from a James Bond movie.

And then there's really no like sense of immediate danger, I would say, between

them getting on the plane and when they're kidnapped by the thuggies, right?

There's sort of this extended James Bondy, like, let me try to figure out what's going on here.

And a lot of that is also just, let me fight with Willie Scott a bunch.

And then you get into this extended, like, super dark set piece, which I think there's something weird about this movie doing this, like, here's his kid sidekick, here's the movie being more family-friendly, pulling it further away from an adult world.

Even the way that Willie and Indy interact with each other feels like six-year-olds with a crush on each other, like fighting on the playground versus Raiders, which gives you like a kind of adult relationship.

And then it just goes into this incredibly dark place that feels like it's trying to create nightmares, which I love conceptually.

But at this point in the movie, I just am like, what the fuck is going on here?

I um

I do like some of the nasty stuff just in terms of like it's effective.

Yes, like it's it's kind of fun that it's gnarly.

It just doesn't vibe with everything else, like you're saying, very well.

I think the bit where Short Round and Indy are like stuck in that room and the ceiling is coming down.

Yes, I think that is cool.

I think Willie's being annoying.

But I do think that that sort of thing, I'm like, that is the Indiana Jones thing.

He is in imminent danger and someone has to figure it out really quick.

And he's doing the little fast job kind of thing.

Exactly.

I'm like, this is what we're doing.

I want to see.

Puzzles, traps.

Right.

And propulsive, you know, like, we got to go.

We got to go.

One thing leads the next.

Yeah.

And

I think they were somewhat hampered by Harrison Ford fucked up his back, the only time he ever injured himself on set,

riding an elephant.

And they had to do a lot of stuff with his stunt man.

Okay.

Doubling Vic Armstrong, sort of a famous sort of

his lifelong right.

And they, you know, Lucas says like that was a major drama.

So I don't, it was not just like some bullshit.

Yeah.

I don't know if it affected the story.

I was going to say, I'm sure it made production more difficult.

All my biggest problems with this movie are in dialogue scenes.

I completely agree because it really is just like not.

a great i'm basically fine with any and all of the set pieces

i think they work on their own sort of terms i think it's fair to say the minecart Minecart sequence is the best action sequence in all of Indiana Jones.

I'm not saying that's like a, you can't argue with me position.

I'm saying it's a position you can take.

You can take the position.

I'll take the position.

Sure.

I'm taking it right now.

It's also one of those things where like just an astonishing, how did they pull this off in 1983?

It's incredible.

Yeah.

The whole thing is thrilling to watch and it's.

to use y'all's word, propulsive because every time they're like, we did it, another thing is happening.

That's literally like structurally how you want these movies to work is like they're on rails and then someone flips a switch and you go off in a different direction and now there's a new issue and you're upside down like that's how Ideatta Jones movies should play out.

Yeah

David what this episode of blank check with Griffin David podcast about philographies is brought to you by booking.com booking.

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Who is one other person in the room?

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That's very demanding to be in Europe.

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Charlie Sheen is an icon of decadence.

I lit the fuse and my life turns into everything it wasn't supposed to be.

He's going the distance.

He was the highest paid TV star of all time.

When it started to change, it was quick.

He kept saying, no, no, no, I'm in the hospital now, but next week I'll be ready for the show.

Now, Charlie's sober.

He's going to tell you the truth.

How do I present this with any class?

I think we're past that, Charlie.

We're past that, yeah.

Somebody call action.

Aka Charlie Sheen.

Only on Netflix, September 10th.

I kind of am cool with the last like 20 minutes.

Well, you know what's also good about the...

Because there's also the drawstring, the drawbridge.

And what's happening there, Olivia?

What do you mean, what's happening?

Outside.

So much of this movie is inside or subterranean.

And Spielberg himself has acknowledged that becomes kind of a bummer.

Indiana Jones should have some vistas, like should have a sense of being in places.

And as much as some of those cavern sets are kind of cool and

beautiful.

You kind of at a certain point are like, you know.

like can i see the sunshine a little bit like i i think it gets to you club obi won great set sure have a musical number good opening but you're like, not only is it starting in this like very James Bondi world, but we're starting the first 10 minutes of the movie like in a room.

In a room, not yet in some exotic locale.

Yes, we are in an exotic locale, but not in the same way.

Right.

Like Raiders of the Lost Arc, all the location stuff is so cool.

Yeah.

And like first 10 minutes of Raiders, he's like fucking out running a boulder and getting on a biplane.

Like at the same time, we've just been complaining about this movie for an hour plus, right?

And that's what people do about Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.

Like, right?

Like that, of course, there are defenders.

Tarantino is always going on about how it's the best one.

You know, there's all the contrarian takes that have emerged over the last 40 years.

This movie is fun to watch, and I've watched it many, many times.

It's a totally watchable movie.

Harrison Ford is maybe at his sexiest in it.

Okay, that is something we have to talk about because they let him take his shirt off.

Yes, he's really, because it's like this witness, like a working girl.

Like, it's really him.

Yeah, I literally looks hotter in this one than he does in Raiders.

Yes.

And he looks fucking hot.

I think there's a major step down in his performance.

And I think a lot of it is the setup of the story.

He also probably was like dealing with back pain.

I was going to say, that also fills in a lot.

He does look.

I also, I was

in this costume, Will.

I was watching this with my boyfriend and we humble back.

Did you tell him about Sawyer Spielberg?

I'm very forgot.

He was, and he was like, oh, he looks just kind of like a normal guy.

He doesn't have, he looks jacked, but he...

We talked about this in the Raiders.

Yes, he looks jacked in a way that is completely attainable.

Ryan Michael Bennis was saying that he remembers as a child how much press to do there was about the regimen.

Yeah.

That Harrison Ford went on.

You're not going to believe how big he is in this movie.

And that that was the big, oh, fucking Drew Strusen painting of him with the ripped off sleeve and the chest exposed and all the images and everything.

And people were like, holy shit, like fanning themselves down.

And you're like, this is what the comic relief looks like

now.

Right.

This is Jake Johnson in

the mummy.

Jake Johnson.

He's twice as big in the mummy as Harrison Ford is in this.

He looks incredible, though.

But he does.

He looks like so good.

You know why?

Because he looks like a real person.

He looks like the best.

He literally looks like a hot professor.

Yeah.

Like, if you have ever had a hot professor, he kind of looks like Harrison Ford in the 80s.

He can lecture me.

I also think the reason that we've kind of been shitting on this movie is because you have nothing that you have to compare it to Raiders.

You have to.

And it just is such a kind of steep

fall off from that movie.

Even like I'm watching these on like successive days.

Yeah.

Right.

Like I'm only living with Raiders for maximum 48 hours before I watch Temple of Doom.

And I just immediately was like, what's going on with this one?

Like explain to me what the deal is with this one.

Yeah.

And you saying about watching a lot and being very watchable.

I like largely agree, except I would say Willie Scott annoys me more than most characters in the

she's tough.

I'm not, I'm not here to truly stick up for yeah, Willie Scott.

And every time I re-watch it, I'm like, am I overreacting?

Am I being too hard?

Do I need to fucking cool it and watch it with fresh eyes?

And it does just feel like she keeps saying, like, stop the movie.

I want to get off.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I also am kind of like, I think the, the, the, like, thuggy villain thing is not totally coherent to me.

It doesn't like, first of all, it's like there's a lot of like scholarly skepticism about the

where they just sort of a big pillar created by the British Empire.

Like, why is there like a voodoo doll?

I'm like, that is Haitian.

Like, what are we?

We're pulling from so many different places.

And I get that maybe it's a commentary on.

I think it's more the George Lucas thing.

I'm like, yeah, no, these movies all had like a bunch of fantasy shit in them.

I think it's all like, oh, if you are like an evil person of color in one of those movies, you have like

weird you can access all of that color magic.

And it's like,

I think if it were more honed in, maybe I would.

I also think not to like, once again, complain about what it does that I feel like the rules of the Indiana Jones movies, right?

But you're like, the fun of this is to me, Indiana Jones versus a different type of like shitty like colonizer.

Yeah.

Right.

It's like there is a central, there is a mythology, there is a history, there's objects, there is culture, but he can't be fighting with that culture.

Right.

He has to be fighting with someone else fighting over their interpretation of the culture.

And this is sort of trying to do that, where it's like the small village saying, bring our stones back, but they're basically activating him like he's a superhero, being like, Indiana Jones, we conjure you together.

Trouble on the mountain.

Yes.

Right.

You just spent an afternoon with us and now please go off and like save our stones.

But can I ask?

Yeah.

Did anyone ever think, like, I think the first time I saw it, I kind of thought that indiana jones his motivation was to keep the stone sure is he it feels like it's not clear it should be that or maybe because it's maybe that's a crisis like because it's a prequel it should be like this was his earlier like i just want fucking treasures and sell them phase but instead he just wants to get the stone to bring back to bring back to the village to like bring the kids but he says some line of like like like glory and something fame and glory but again this is this is the thing of like the movie you have seen raiders and you have an idea of this guy loves to go get things and bring them back to his museum that is what he loves to do great but then this movie is like he actually doesn't care about that right now and also this guy hasn't done raiders yet so you're like if you're not going to answer to me the differences between that guy and this guy then what are we doing here uh like this movie needs brody being like hey i got an interesting message yeah there's a small village.

Right.

They're looking for someone, you know?

You just miss Brody.

As do I.

Where is he?

But I agree with you that Ford is playing it darker as well.

And perhaps that is part of the like

the darkness triangle of like Marshall Lucas divorce, Twilight Zone death, and Harrison Ford's back injury.

But the whole movie feels like he's playing it in a more menacing way.

And the ultimate manifestation of that being him having to play possessed Indy and like potentially put this child in harm.

It feels like he's leaning into something darker the whole time.

Where I keep on waiting for that of like some scene where he's like, you know what?

It should belong in a museum.

I've learned.

Yeah.

Well, I almost like that these movies don't try that hard

to be right.

Like it's more like, no, it's just Indiana has an adventure.

Don't worry.

Talk about it.

But

why have it be a prequel?

I think the prequel is like getting in the the way.

That's why it shouldn't be a prequel and it shouldn't be the darker middle entry because that's meaningless.

I also think that if you had just told me that this, well, I guess the Marion thing kind of gets in the way.

If you just like tell me, don't put a year on it.

Just kind of say

that or

say that, like, I don't know, Marion has like come to her senses and wants a man with a stable job or whatever.

Yeah, Marion left me because I'm a pain in the ass.

I'm over here.

Marion left me and now I'm in a bad mood.

It turned out she was a fembot.

I found out in our honeymoon.

That is really, that's a, that's, that's really good writing.

That's the kind.

No, but that's the kind of brilliant screenwriting that maybe Lucas and Silver couldn't get access to.

But I sadly think that

the prequel of it gets

joke.

Yeah, I agree with you.

And I, and I also think that, like,

here's, here's another issue I have with the darker middle entry thing, right?

Empire, Lucas is justifying that shit so well.

Like, here's the meeting with the father, your reality falling out, right?

Your characters being tested, them coming up against their own limitations.

None of the the darkness of this movie is connected to Indiana Jones as a character because Indiana Jones is a character who doesn't go through serious arcs, right?

He stays the same and that's what's cool about movies.

And the only thing that can change Indiana Jones is his relationship to a character, right?

People pushing him a little bit in one direction or another, challenging him a little bit.

But he's got such high status on Willie the entire movie where he's just kind of like, you know, the thin man equation of like, oh, part of this is working in this sort of screwball back and forth.

She can, you know, give it just as hard as she takes it kind of banter shit doesn't work if like the thin man is a detective and his wife who hates mysteries.

Well, that's why I think that like the scene screams whenever anyone has a gun.

Right.

Oh my god, she screams so much.

It's crazy.

But I think the scene where him and Short Round are playing poker is so good because it's like, oh, here's someone who's getting one over on Indiana.

Something we don't see that.

Short Round also wants to be an Indiana Jones movie, but has a slightly different way about it, which is the right kind of Indiana Jones pairings.

But starting this movie with their relationship mid-swing and ending it on a note of, and of course we'll go on adventures forever, dot, dot, dot, doesn't really service like putting Indy through anything.

As much as we don't want to see him grow or change significantly, there are like small arcs that can happen.

And the darkness is just like they literally just descend into a dark temple.

You know, like the darker middle entry shit is only they move into a space where darker shit is happening.

They literally go underground and then fucked up things happen in front of their eyes and then they go back above ground and they're like, woo, enough of that darkness.

Kind of.

So it just feels kind of unearned to me versus like Batman Returns is a classic like biting the hand darker sequel.

Yeah.

That I adore that feels dark in a like holistic psychological way.

Yeah, rather than just like, right.

It's like basically everyone's the same.

It's just the locale and the vibes are a little darker.

I don't know.

I just feel this way the same I do about, like I said it already, about Lost World, where I'm just like,

you're in the hands, you're in the safest hands.

It has like four of the best directing sequences

in your life.

Like, you know, Lost World, I can watch anytime because I'm like, well, I know this is coming up.

But I can also watch it the whole time being like, this doesn't really make a lot of sense that this would happen like you know and like i yeah did anyone check in on and the answer is kind of like yeah they had to do a sequel and so they did their best in you know whatever time frame they had and this is what they gave you and after the fact maybe they can be like well you know what like

you know marsha lucas though i was pissed off it's like yeah maybe you just made an okay sequel it's interesting to me that's flawed jumping ahead we've recorded our jurassic episode already even though it's far off because of guest availability and there was a thing in the dossier that really jumped out.

We got blue from Jurassic World with our guests.

We booked blue.

The raptor.

That's huge.

The whole episode is us going

for the listener at home.

David is doing the iconic arm gesture of Owen Grady, Raptor Trainer.

Remember me?

Yeah.

Oh, I was going to say more like a Johnny Bravo.

Click-click.

Click-click with me doing the monkey with me.

David's doing the monkey.

No, Johnny Bravo is going to be on our call it purple episode.

Come on.

David just mimed a fucking three-point shot.

That was fun.

Just imagine it.

Yeah.

A quote that has really stuck with me.

I'd never really considered before.

Jaws spawns a bunch of sequels.

Do the monkey with me.

Spielberg.

Yeah, that was the quote.

Oh, mama.

Spielberg wants nothing to do with the Jaws sequels, right?

Yeah.

He develops ET2.

And is wisely like, I cannot think of shooting for this.

That's right.

Right.

And there's this quote about why, why did he do Lost World?

And he was like, you know, I got so many letters from kids being like, when are you making the next Jurassic part?

And I got this one letter from Universal being like, $20 million.

Yeah, carry out, carry out.

But he was like, when that was asked of me of E.T., I went through the thought experiment.

I was like, this is too precious.

I don't have anything new to say.

It's sacred.

I don't want to touch it.

Right.

Jaws, they wanted to make them.

I didn't want to touch them.

I couldn't stop them from making them at that point, but I had nothing new to say.

Indiana Jones was different because I had made this agreement and I promised George I'd make three of them.

Jurassic was the first time where I was like, you know what?

I actually don't feel that precious about this.

So what reason is there for me to stand in the way of a sequel?

Where he basically admits that he's just like, I don't know.

Like, Jurassic wasn't super personal for me.

Yeah, like people liked it.

Why don't I try it again?

And

I wonder

what the timeline is like in which Steven Spielberg makes a third Jurassic movie.

Right.

Because I like Last Crusade so much.

And I know a lot of people are like, that's when it sort of got kiddified and silly, and the tension goes out, and this and that.

But I do think it's kind of a return to form for him.

And it feels in that way that you see like the arcs of Spielberg's career when he feels like he has something to prove.

It's always really interesting when he's either trying to do a thing he hasn't done before or like recover from a setback.

And Last Crusade definitely has the energy of him being like,

I need to make another good Indiana Jones movie to like reset everything.

Yeah, to like reset the dials, just like totally

get back to baseline.

And that's the third one.

And we ended on a good note.

I want to end it on a good note.

And like in between this and Last Crusade, he does color purple.

And he does.

Does Color Purple come out the year after this?

Or is it when is when does he jump to Color Purple is 85?

So it's two years after this.

Of the Sun is after Color Purple.

Correct.

And then Always and Last Crusade are in the same year.

Which is

the first time he does the

two movies in one year.

But it's like him doing three grown-up movies in a row.

Like two harder dramas and like one grown-up comedy in between two Indina Jones entries.

Yes.

Where at that point it feels like he's going back to like, and I'm going to do Spielberg Magician Wonder Maker mode.

Dream Worker, if you will.

I'm sort of like sitting in a moon and kind of fishing.

Olivia raised her eyebrows.

No, I mean, his whole late 80s, I think,

is suspect at the time.

People are like, the only true hit is, I mean, Colored Purple makes a lot of money and gets a lot of Oscar nominations and is honestly an incredibly important movie.

But, you know, it's not quite, it's not what he wanted it to be, which is like.

I think there's a feeling of him walking away from this being like, I can't keep doing the Spielberg shit.

No, I got to try some other stuff.

But he doesn't, until Jurassic Park, he doesn't quite have the undeniable Spielberg thing he has.

No, you know, when he last crusade was close, Hook was not close.

The run is India is Temple of Doom, Color Purple, Empire of the Sun, Last Crusade, Always.

Yeah, Hook.

Hook.

Yes.

What's up with Always?

Have you guys done that one?

No, we haven't done that.

We haven't seen it.

You've never seen it?

Nevere.

It's remaking one of his most favorite movies.

And it's basically him trying to do Frank Capra.

Yeah.

And it's just like, it's syrup on syrup.

Like, you can't, you know, he's like, Audrey Hoffman's last performance.

It's like his real, right, kind of pastiche-y.

It also suffered.

Dreyfus, in my opinion, is not good in it.

Holly Hunter, amazing in it.

What's your problem with Dreyfus?

Too quiet?

Too calm?

But Jurassic Park Schindler's list.

Yeah.

It's not like Spielberg had become a failure.

No.

But that is people being like, oh, yeah, shit.

Right.

You know, it's undeniable.

That's an undeniable year.

And yes, every child loves Hook now.

Every child by child, I mean a person in their 30s who lives in Bushwick.

But I mean, at the time when Hook came out, people were like, he's a little cooked.

Like, this is embarrassing.

This is getting a little embarrassing.

Probably helped Jurassic.

Yes, for sure.

Right?

Like, this movie is hurt by coming off of E.T.,

where I think to some degree, he doesn't have anything to prove.

He went from Indiana Jones to E.T., and E.T.

has a greater level of psychological depth just by design.

E.T.

is just like so good.

E.T., when I was watching the

documentary, they just show the clip from the end of E.T.

where E.T.

is like, I live in here.

And I was like about to start crying.

It's so perfect.

E.T.

is the one time I've been asked, and it was on my like, you know, 14th watch.

Yeah.

Like, are you okay?

Because I was like stopping

by the person, I think my mother.

Like, not even like some date items.

But it's like a miracle movie.

And it must have been a little weird to make E.T.

and then go like, oh, I guess I got to make another Indiana Jones now.

It must have been.

So maybe someone should rip someone's heart out in this movie.

Because is E.T.

the first one where he's like,

no, I guess it's not the first one where he's like, it sucks that my parents got divorced.

But like, it is really him putting his heart on his sleeve in like a really big one.

It's the most personal he's well, close encounters.

I was going to say close encounters is really like him trying that, but E.T.

is just so sentimental.

But E.T.

is complimentary.

Right.

Hook is so sentimental, not complimentary.

Right.

Hook is, you know,

we'll talk about Hook, but like the shit that sucks in Hook is Robin Williams, like with his eyes shimmering, being like, I should work less hard.

And I'm like, Steven, talk to a therapist.

I want to watch a Peter Pan movie with sword fights.

I don't need this shit.

And like in Hook, the stuff I like is Dustin Hoffman and Bob Hoskins doing like a carry-on movie.

I'm like, that's fun.

Like, that's silly.

I just don't need Robin Williams being like, my cell phone.

I'm like, fuck your cell phone.

Yeah, I think there's also, look, we'll talk about this in a Hook episode.

But there's perhaps a thing where people are like, oh my God, Steven Spielberg making the Peter Pan movie.

That's perfect.

Right, the child at heart.

It's so on the nose.

Right.

It's too on the nose.

He's like, I'm too much of a child at heart.

And again, I'm just.

And here's the second problem:

the hook to hook, if you will, is what if Peter Pan did grow up and became a boring adult and had to reconnect with being Peter Pan.

And I'm like, huh, that's a thing that Steven Spielberg can't relate to.

That's the one perspective that's going to make zero sense to him.

Is Hoffman kind of cooking in that movie or

Hoffman has a cauldron the size of a turf.

It is.

He is cooking so.

He is fucking incredible.

It is.

And here's my other.

I remember that from being a child.

I remember being like, something is cool in here.

She's like, what?

You're right, but Bob Hoskins is fucking good.

But that's what I'm about to say.

No, that's what I was about to say.

And I will advance this argument again on our hook episode, but I want to say it now.

Every Steven Spielberg movie would be better if you added Bob Hoskins as Smee just in the movie.

Correct.

Like if Bob Hoskins' Sme was in this movie somewhere, that'd be great.

If Bob Smith was like Bob Hoskins, Smee was was Willie Scott.

Oh, well, I was going to say Bob Hoskins' Smee in the post.

Yeah, that'd be great.

For files.

Okay, let me just play out a scene for you, right?

Pentagon Picard.

Okay, Indiana Jones is on an elephant, not breaking his back, right?

Fortune and Glory, short round Fortune and Glory.

Then other elephant pulls up.

It's Bob Hoskins' Smee.

Yeah, I was an opera singer, he was.

Back in Shanghai, I had my friends.

What am I doing here in the back of an elephant with you?

He's not stopped.

That looks cool.

cruel.

I have a couple of things to say.

One, your hair support is really good.

You know what?

I think it's usually good, and I couldn't get it in the Raiders episode, and it's been haunting me.

It's the one where I like it.

Well, I'll say it on this one.

It's good.

Two, I like that their elephants are all

to their size.

Right.

Hoffens is a little one.

And then Short runs on a small one.

And that was kind of my two things.

Hoffman is cooking so hard.

That scene in Hook where they're bringing the hook up to him on the pillow and all the pirates, You are like, this is pure liquid sex cinema.

It's so good.

Save it for a hook.

And then there's fucking two hours of Robin Williams being like, I don't know how to have fun.

And I'm like, yes, you do.

You're Robin Williams.

We got a really good guest for the hook episode.

I hope he shows up.

Yeah, I did.

You sent him an email?

I'll send it to us.

Oh, he's busy.

He's busy.

I want to send it when he's going to look at it.

Shoes on the other foot.

In terms of not sending emails.

Oh, okay.

Yes, yes, yes.

Is there anything else we want to talk about in Indiana that you're going to be talking about?

Let's talk about it.

Okay, well then let's talk about.

What's Harrison?

What does Harrison?

what is Harrison Ford up to now?

Does he just like fly his planes?

He's on four TV shows.

Do you mean right now or do you mean in 1990?

Presently.

Because I know he's like sort of on his big run in the 80s.

Yeah.

But I mean, right, right now he's doing Apple shows and

shrinking.

Oh, right.

He's on shrinking.

And isn't he on a Sheridan?

He's on a Yellowstone.

I think he's on 1923.

And it's about

weed is expensive with the taxes and everything.

For you.

No, for him.

He loves to movies.

Yeah.

I need more weed.

What else does he have going on in pictures?

Does he have pictures coming up?

New motion pictures?

Yeah.

A little movie called Captain America, Colin Brief, New World, in which he rolls out.

The president.

He should do.

Here's my pitch to Harrison Ford.

Morning Glory 2.

Let's get the gang back in.

It should be a break.

Regularly maintained.

Looking at his filmography last night, I was like, fuck, that movie is so good.

It's a great.

It's a great.

I talk about it all the time.

I think he should have gotten nominated for that.

He maybe should have.

He had won for that.

I don't think he should have won for it.

But he is good.

He has only one other movie listed upcoming on IMDb called The Miserable Adventures of Burt Squire, and it has no other information connected to it.

Probably it's just like,

but it doesn't seem like there's anything else that he's even like attached to and development on.

Yeah, The Miserable Adventures of Burt Squire is an STX project that he signed on to with Ed Helms in 2020.

Methinks that one is going to get shipwrecked.

I don't think it's going to make it.

He is a rooster in Secret Life of Pets 2.

Thoughts?

Thoughts?

I thought he was a dog.

Is the dog name rooster?

Maybe the dog's name rooster.

How about the dog movie, though, the two-hander that he's in?

Call of the Wild?

Call of the Wild.

I never saw it.

I watched it when I was on a trip recently, and I just needed to put something on.

It is

not good.

Did you cry?

Did I cry?

Yes.

Yep.

Yeah.

I did a dog.

It's a dog.

And then our friend.

I guess it's a single most damning review of Moana 2.

We go to see it with our friend Ben David Grabinsky, who had never had the pleasure of going to see a movie with Mr.

Hosley before.

Oh, sure.

We're seeing in 40x.

I'm priming the pump.

I'm like, Ben David, get ready to watch Ben cry.

You were going to watch Ben cry tonight.

I'm an easy crier.

Right.

And he was like, for Moana 2, everyone says it sucks.

And I was like, this is the point I'm making.

I guarantee you there will be one thing that will happen.

It will develop within the span of five seconds.

Ben will go from normal to quickly sobbing because

a moment of kindness towards an animal or someone saying they're proud of someone else, and it will happen, right?

Yeah, like just the faucet will turn.

And I walked out, I said, Ben, how are you feeling?

He went, dry as a bone.

That's 40x.

There's water sprayed.

And I was like, this thing really doesn't work if it couldn't even get Ben crying for three seconds.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Give me other Temple of Doom thoughts because I'm feeling us all be like, eh, can we just talk about other stuff?

Like, I am feeling us

already hitting, you know, dry ground on our Temple of Doom, like dig.

Like, that's a bad metaphor.

You know what I'm trying to say.

We're all kind of like, eh.

I'm scrubbing to the movie here.

Hold on.

You know, like, I think the Rope Bridge scene is really fun.

I do too.

I think I'm Rish Puri as Puri as Molar Ram.

It's an incredibly one-known performance.

He's one of the most famous Bollywood villain actors of all time.

He's got theatricality and presence.

I think he looks cool.

I think he has a great face.

I like when Harrison Ford is possessed and then becomes unpossessed and winks at Short Round as if saving him.

Yeah, what do we think about when Willie and Indiana are like gonna hook up, but then they keep like being annoying to each other?

That should be more fun.

I know.

It really should.

It should

like five minutes thing is fun on paper, and then he gets attacked and she's like, he's not coming over.

Right.

That should be like a fun screwball sequence in the middle.

Like it's like, it's a different kind of action sequence.

It's a romantic action sequence.

We're having that.

And instead it feels, I mean, she's kind of, you're just kind of a little annoyed with her.

There are these cinemasons about it.

Why is she wearing normal pajamas?

Interesting.

She's wearing like a bathrobe and normal pajamas when she was in like American apparel sweats.

Yeah.

It's also weird because she's like

in she's in that sort of like uh extravagant dress that they give her, right?

Yeah.

Then she changes into like her jammies.

Yes.

And then when they're in the temple, she's back in her dress.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you guys like the evil little prince?

No, it makes me sad.

You too.

Kind of a bar.

It makes me sad.

At one point, he's whipping Short Round, and I don't like to see that.

Short round's so great, though.

What a cutie pie.

He's just so

charming.

This is kind of an interesting quote from Spielberg.

He said, I think Temple of Doom was ahead of its time for my own sensibility and exactly right on schedule for George's.

George was going through a dark period.

He certainly inspired Kirshner to shoot a very dark second act in the first Star Wars.

He wanted the second Indiana Jones to be very, very dark.

And I wasn't there.

I'm certainly there now in my filmmaking.

That makes sense.

As you've probably witnessed ever since Schindler's list, before that, it was a bit of a struggle against common sense to go as dark as we did what's weird about he goes dark on the next movie yeah uh and then stays there uh wait on then sorry he goes dark on which movie on um the next film's color purple oh oh yeah yeah but no the film after that's empire of the sun yeah yeah yeah but

I feel like what he's saying post-Schindler is right, you know, like this early 2000s Spielberg, where he's still making riproaring adventures like Minority Report or whatever, but it's much darker, much more cynical tone and all that.

But then he makes Crystal Skull, which is not like that.

No.

Crystal Skull, honestly, I like a lot of that movie more than some, but like, can't pick a tone really.

No.

And like kind of has a lot of nostalgia stuff and it's kind of about how you can't, you know, this is my confidence.

Recreate old glories

with Ready Player One as well.

David Crumholt's favorite movie of all time.

Goviev, Crumholt's agree.

Yeah.

I feel this issue with Ready Player One as well, which it's like Spielberg doing an impression of himself, being like, wouldn't it be fun to do one of the fun ones again?

And this feels like he's in a mode where he wants to make a fun one again and he's being pushed into something darker.

Then he spends his next like four or five years trying to make darker, more grown-up movies

about serious things.

And people at the time are like, he's like a little kid.

What is it?

He doesn't have an adult understanding of this stuff.

He's not there.

And Schindler was the first time that I think people were like, he's processing events like an adult.

He is making movies about serious subject matter with a proper sense of like weight and maturity.

The movie does kind of feel like what, like

a little kid playing dress up to be like dark and spooky.

Like it doesn't like when we talk about it being like a dark movie, it's like, it's not like Indiana Jones is like going through personal torment or anything.

He's not, it's just like there's some dark and spooky shit happening underground.

Yes.

And like it's kind of scary if you're eight.

Yes.

And then, so I, I, I, it's also like asking a small child, like, what's the scariest thing that could ever happen?

They're like, I don't know.

Your Your heart dude, your heart,

and then you get pushed into a pit of hiding.

In the fucking work.

And the girl is screaming.

And there's bugs?

And you cut a snake open and there's more snakes?

This is my problem with the, like, it's so dark.

It's such a dark movie.

And I'm like, scary things happen in it.

I don't think it's like a dark movie.

It's not a dark movie in the way that like Schindler's list is.

It's a dark movie.

But even like in the way that like dark popcorn sequels are that I like that are like, and this movie deals with some fucked up psychology.

Yeah.

And audiences weren't ready for it.

I also feel like every Indiana Jones movie, we'll see about Last Crusade, but usually the tone is kind of Spilberg being like, look, George, this is George's thing.

And later it becomes like, this is George and Harrison's thing.

And I want to make a good movie and I'm here, but I'm a little bit like working with them versus like all his other projects.

And so I feel like when the movies don't work, he kind of is like, well, you know, that was George's idea.

It's what I find so fascinating about Tintin is Tintin feels like him being burned by like, George is giving me bad things now.

Right.

So what if I treat Urger as my George?

Right.

What if I do a Tintany like Indiana?

And that movie weirdly feels like a four-hire movie for him, but him being excited that he's starting with good material.

I wish someone would make another Tintany.

Have it be live action.

Oh, you don't want to do a Tintany.

Not really.

I mean, I would go for that if that's what's happening.

Yeah.

But I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know.

It is just weird that it's been like a casual 12 years since 1010.

Is that right?

Was it 2012?

Yeah, or 2011, I think.

Yeah.

Peter Jackson's too busy sifting through, you know, 800 hours of Beatles sessions or whatever.

But he's about to find something really good.

Can they look more like Jelly?

It is fascinating to be like, does that guy ever make a scripted fictional film again?

I know.

It's not that he wants to.

No, but it's just funny that it might truly never happen again

well we should do them um on the podcast here's a question sure what do these stones do uh they're they're they're

what is just stones do they just light up the skull it seems like i think they do explain it at some point

okay here is again the another issue is that it's like

the ark of the covenant i'm like i get it i get what this thing is they put the ten commandments in it like that's crazy last crusade It's the holy grail.

I get it.

I get what that is.

I got the same question as Ben.

I'm like, what's up with these stones?

They are, you know,

it's a real thing from, you know, Hindu, like, mysticism.

And, you know, they're, I'm not an expert on, despite in the seventh grade doing a 40-page project on Hinduism that I got a very good grade on.

They made you do a 40-page project on Hinduism.

In the history of this podcast, when people brag about how good their paper is, we definitely never get in trouble.

No, we had to do a project on Hinduism.

If you don't want that religion religion

uh for my religious education class in the what you would think of as the seventh grade year eight what you would think what americans would call seventh grade um

uh but but it is it is a uh you know they're they're working with real you know sort of mythos like two you know and then just turning it into weird Indiana Jones magic shit.

I agree with you that it's like probably helpful that the first two movies are dealing with like biblical Nothurian legends.

Western things for the movie.

I understand this is a very Western viewpoint for Western movies, primarily made for Westerners, but yeah.

What kind of art archaeology?

It's not like

all of them.

Well, if you're going to come back at me with like, well, no, it's good that Indiana Jones explored like Hindu, it's Hinduism and stuff.

It's like, no, it's not because this movie is like very simplistic and kind of racist.

On the other hand everyone was kind of mad about that.

This village is basically like

this stone is sacred to us.

It like keeps us balanced.

It was stolen by the thuggies.

They're doing something bad with it.

Can you go find it?

Right.

And then he goes and finds it and brings it back and he's like, they were indeed doing real bad shit with it.

Here are all the stones.

I do like when the kids all come running back and like the village is now very verdant and beautiful and sunny.

I do feel like you'd rather the story be that like

Brody says, and I know I'm just harping for my man barely here.

Dan home, Dan home.

But that Brody's like, I got a great lead on these stones.

And he goes to find the stones and he wants them to be in a museum.

And then this village is like, these stones mean something to us.

Sure.

yeah.

And he has the growth of being like, The stones should stay here.

It feels a little weird to have it be like kind of Indiana Jones for hire.

Can you do this mission for us?

But also,

the bad things that are happening are more about the thuggies being shitty than the power of the stones.

Well, because here's the thing, too, with the kids.

We've mentioned the

children, slaves, yes, who are mining for the other two missing stones.

Why kids?

They're, I mean, get adults.

You're just saying, like, they don't have to do that.

It's kind of inefficient labor.

It makes no sense.

Yeah, they're bad people.

And that's

and they're bad businessmen.

And they're bad businessmen.

Their employee hiring practices are terrible.

They should try indeed.

It's just, yeah, it's not, it doesn't make sense to me, but

it's just a silly adventure.

I understand that.

But I

agree with you.

And I think

this is another thing that's dumb about this movie being a quiet prequel is that it does feel like there's something profound in Raiders to the arc of Indy being like, supernatural shit isn't real.

What are you talking about?

Sure.

Right.

And then he sees the face of God.

Right.

And he's a little changed, and the movie ends.

And this movie is like, oh, by the way, like two years early, Indiana Jones got possessed by a stone.

That is such a good point.

But it wasn't in the Bible, so he didn't take it seriously.

Right?

Like, his whole posture in Raiders is like, by the way, these are objects.

They hold no power.

I just like collecting things.

I mean, it was possessed by blood.

I get it, but yeah.

That came out of a dead man's head.

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I have a question, sort of to Spielberg-related.

Does he have anything in the hopper right now?

Crank.

He's making this like a sci-fi movie, right?

It's called The Dish.

Yeah.

Okay.

Josh O'Connor, Emily Blunt.

He's hoping to snapping up great actors.

Oh my God, Wyatt Russell.

It's like a fucking.

I love that.

It's a beautiful cast.

It's a great cast.

It's a David Scott.

It's an event movie.

It's an event movie.

It will be released in IMAX.

It is in some way relating to UFO's extraterrestrial life.

He's going back there.

It sounds cool.

It's an original film.

I'm always based on no pre-existing material, but it is interesting that he has slowed way the fuck down.

He has.

He was always a one or two a year guy.

And when he was posting on one movie, he was prepping the next.

You always knew, like, here are the five movies he has in development, and which one will he pick?

And then in the post-Fableman's era, it's always been like,

oh, he and Bradley Cooper are talking about doing bullet.

Yeah.

But who knows what's going to happen?

And then this movie kind of came up out of nowhere.

Burned by the weird circumstances for like Westside Story and the Fablemans, both kind of being

two movies that I think are incredible, but for some reason.

Amazing movies.

And I do feel like he's like, I give you these jewels.

And you're kind of like, meh.

I also can imagine perfunctory, passive-aggressive Oscar nomination.

Right.

It was like, best director.

Right.

It's incredible.

Steven Spielberg.

Because I imagine if you're Steven Spielberg and you make the Fablemans, you're like, this is my

entire

chest for you, B.

I am like Temple of Doom, opening my heart and handing out.

And then people are like, what is this bullshit about the magic of the movies?

It's like,

I would be a little pissed off.

It was kind of his Steve Jobs Danny Boyle episode, and people are like, he really wants to go back and try another thing?

That's kind of a good rep.

That is the reason I think people were like, is this his last movie?

He's got nothing in development.

It feels like the ultimate statement.

It's just an interesting place for him to be.

Yeah.

I mean, he lost to Jane Campion and the Daniels.

Yeah.

I don't think he's like,

you know, steamed that he didn't get another Oscar.

I don't even think it's about like the Oscars.

I think just kind of like,

yeah, it's just like, oh, they just made like $30 million.

Like, Favorite One's was just like...

on VOD after a month.

The post made like 60 domestic and Bridget spies made

70 or 80 domestic.

Like it's a real snapshot of how much adult film going culture changed over the pandemic.

Hopefully, it's getting a little bit back.

Yeah.

But it did just feel like

post made 81.

Insane.

That's so insane.

And Bridge of Spies made 70.

Bridge of Spies made $1 billion.

Yeah.

In my house, all of that movie has gone triple platinum.

He's kind of cold.

What else do you want to say about Templo June before I make my point about its release and commercial success?

As I move on to my

point, was just that it felt like even when Spielberg would have whiffs or movies that did not totally connect with the public or the Oscars or whatever, there was like an undeniable event to a new Steven Spielberg film.

And as you said, like children just know that's the name of the person who makes movies.

And even if I'm not seeing that one, I understand it's a thing.

It does feel like the post-2020 movies, there's just a sense of like, what is that?

In a way that, like, there's no even importance placed on like even like Spielberg has a new film in the film.

But he's got Nolan now.

Nolan just has that.

It is.

But even, like, I feel like

Killers of the Flower Moon had more of a thing of it.

There's a Martin Scorsese movie.

It has Leonardo DiCaprio in it.

I had this argument with

Michael Tabersky, friend of the podcast, great filmmaker.

Yeah.

Turn me on coming out sometime in 2025.

Absolutely.

But we were like, who are like the four most important filmmakers in that sense?

Right.

In that sort of like cultural sense.

And the argument they were posing to me was,

it was Michael and our friend Jason Ann Katzenstein.

And they were like, we want to see if you're going to leave Spielberg off the list as well.

Sure.

And I was like, I think he's just not there anymore.

I think we're all angry that it feels like

I was like, I think it's kind of undeniably Nolan Scorsese Gerwig Peale.

Yeah.

I was going to say Gerwig and Peel.

I think Peale is no question.

And Gerwig, it's like, yes.

Check out those Chronicles of Narnia.

Right.

I mean, like, that's the only problem problem I have with Gerwig.

Gerwig and Peele, it's like they could lose it.

Well, they're not like, it's not that they could lose.

It's like, just Jordan Peele makes original movies that are a Jordan Peel movie.

Gerwig, it's like, she made a Barbie movie.

Now she's making a Narnia movie.

I do think people are very interested in what she does, but

there's a little less of that.

And you almost wish there was more.

But I also think you can make a joke in a room full of 100 people about a Bretta Gerwig movie or a Jordan Peele movie, and it immediately makes something, it makes sense in their mind.

Scorsese still has that.

That's the the name you use for a serious movie.

And even if something like Killers of the Flower Moon does not connect on the level everyone hoped, that was shown much more respect than Fableman's or West Side Story.

And it felt like the public engaged with that movie way more.

It made it.

It also, to be, and it's, it had Leonardo, not, no offense to him, Gabriel LaBelle or Ancel Gore, like, you know, where it's like, it was Marty and Leo.

Totally.

It was this big American epic.

Like, if Spielberg makes another Tom Cruise movie, if they reteam again, that'd be fun.

It'd be fun.

And who knows if that would like send the shockwaves.

But it is interesting that I'm like, I would argue there's a certain, like, there's more around the idea of a new Denny Villeneuve movie than there is maybe around Spielberg, right?

I think Denny's getting close.

He's got to sort of finish his dunes and then he'll be there.

I think Scorsese is the only elder statesman who's like

there still.

But will he make another movie?

Probably.

Will it be a big movie?

Maybe not.

Like maybe it'll be something smaller.

He's certainly talking in like a in wind down mode.

Did you guys know that Francis Forticoppola wants to is making a musical next year?

He's making

funny.

Very funny.

Thank you.

He's adapting glimpses of the moon or whatever.

I mean, he's whatever.

Like, is there, is there a point?

And I enjoyed Megalopolis a lot, and I'm really happy

that I got to see that.

It's like the 30 rock where they tell Tracy he's going to the moon.

Like, Francis Ford Coppola just on his FB, like, no, do this.

Everyone's like, yeah, we're going to film this and everything.

Second Tracy reference in one episode.

Is there anything else you want to say about

the Temple of Doom?

I'm just, I'm scrolling.

I'm throwing this challenge at you guys because I think...

All right, I'm going to make my.

Oh, sorry.

Go ahead.

The movie I was thinking about a bit when I watched this movie was

a shared favorite of yours and mine, which is Tenet.

Because that is a movie where I think even

if you're like, this plot makes makes no sense to me and I hate it which I disagree with obviously but the set piece started his hot sauce in half an hour ago the set pieces are awesome and so the set pieces are mostly a guy being like I want to do something really fucking cool yes and you're gonna watch that and I actually kind of whatever else is going on doesn't matter like in this one it's the minecart and it's like that is cool as shit in tenant it's kind of like all of it but like look at them on this cool rich person but tenant is the number one where you're just like even if you don't if you can do whatever you want with tenant but if if you're just like, I'm just going to love the vibes and not think about anything, you can have an amazing time with Tennant.

I think Tenet would have been received differently if it were an Inception sequel.

Like, he could have very easily made it Inception 2.

Uh-huh.

This Time It's Time or fucking whatever, you know?

This time it's backwards.

And there was, even when the first Tenant trailer came out and it was like, it's time for a new protagonist, and it was a mystery box, there were some people being like, is this weird sideways Inception universe?

It has a similar vibe.

I think Tenet Tenet would have been judged more harshly if it was like, oh, so it's like it's inception without the emotional arc.

It doesn't have the missing kids.

It's a pretty great emotional arc.

It's about two boys.

In a different way.

I'm just thinking about Tenet right now.

I texted this to Sims today and he didn't respond because I think.

I texted him one of our group texts.

This was a post in the blank check subreddit.

A subreddit, by the way,

is the highest grossing Hollywood original live action.

But this is what does that mean?

Exactly.

This shit starts starts to get annoying for me because the number one thing that, and I've already said this to you, is like Oppenheimer counts as original.

People are like, oh, Hollywood doesn't make any original.

And I'm like, making a movie about a guy who existed, that's not IP.

Making a movie based on like,

oh, well, it had the Oppenheimer non-fiction

biography.

It's based on a book that James Woods recommended.

That's not nothing.

That's such a good, fun fact about Oppenheimer.

It's actually the best.

You know what?

It's the reason I love the movie.

it's my favorite part no i sent david this thing like a couple weeks ago that was referencing that uh elemental is the highest grossing original film of the post-pandemic era yes and david pushed back on that i'm like really that's oppenheimer but then right but then the thing you sent as well where it's like

all the caveats of like hollywood live action where i'm like right because we're not talking about chinese movies of which there are many that have made way more money than any of these hollywood movies by the way what's the other thing we're not talking about what everything ever all at once which outgrossed Tenet.

Did it?

Mainly not domestic.

But not globally.

But this quote was domestic, if I'm not mistaken.

Oh, I don't know.

I can't remember.

Let me compare it to you.

But that's no fair because Tennet came out when theaters were crazy.

Didn't Tenet come out in like October of 2020?

That was the point.

The point was like, oh, it's a little bleak that Tenet in the most compromised, stressed, barely reopened theatrical landscape still has hit a number that nothing else has hit.

Why am I bringing it up to the city?

But I think that's going by its global

form.

It's going by worldwide.

It's going by worldwide.

There's something a little tempting about Dish where I'm like, next year there's a spring spiel

UFO.

Is it next year or 26?

I think Dish might be 26.

But next year we've got a new Koogler movie.

We've got Jordan Peel coming.

We've got

the strike backlog is coming out.

A little bit of that.

A little bit of delayed Oppenheimer.

Yeah, people actually want to see new shit.

And a little bit of

Craven the Hunter is really the end of Hollywood being like, can we sell you any old shit?

It feels like the comic book thing.

And it's defense, it was shot in 1972.

Exactly.

But like, where it's like, next year we have Superman and Fantastic Four.

It's not like we don't have comic book movies, but it feels a little slower and a little bit more like, do you like Superman?

Well, you're forgetting.

We have something else.

Rip.

Rolk.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Red Rolk.

Without the mustache.

No, but there's something too, like, the two big superhero movies next year are the original DC character and the original Marvel character.

Exactly.

It's like the most totemic, early, nostalgic.

Not even nostalgic.

And both of those feel like projects where it's like, if they flop, maybe it's worth to start packing things up.

I also think that in the last

year, there was Tenet IMAX re-release, which I went to and had an incredible time at.

My boyfriend said, you're the only person who brought a boy to this instead of the other way around.

Because your boyfriend and I, we vibe on like master and commitment.

Like there'll be a lot of shared tastes for it, but sometimes we're really about to say we bond on masturbating.

Or rebond on masturbating.

I'm not even joking.

I thought that's what you were going to say, and I was shocked it was going in that direction.

Olivia, can you please pass along 1 million comedy points to your boyfriend?

Tenant re-release and IMAX made a decent amount of money.

$5 million.

Interstellar is crushing.

Oh, and the Interstellar one money.

I'm just saying that people have, maybe it's just for Nolan, but people like seeing these big, bold, original, great-looking movies on a big-ass screen.

It just happened.

Fucking Coraline, which has been re-released every year this year, made like $30 million.

It made a lot of money.

I mean, that's, of course, got, you know, kid factor.

But yes, absolutely.

But they've been re-releasing it every year and every year, making the release wider and longer.

And it keeps making more money.

Like, there is.

This is like people like when movies are cool and good.

Can you imagine?

This is also what the fucking film scene was like in the 70s and the 80s, where it was like there was a balance of the classics coming back to theaters, and people would go back to theaters to see them again.

Star Wars was like re-released every year for a long time, you know?

It was like a healthy part of distribution.

On this,

Temple of Doom, as I bring us to the box office game.

Wow.

This movie came out in 1984 and was a hit.

It got, I would say, mixed reviews.

Sure.

But it was the highest first weekend of 1984, you know, opening weekend of 1984, and it made $180 million.

So it was the third highest grocer at the U.S.

box office behind what?

Okay, 1984.

1984.

It's not.

It's not Rocky IV, is it?

No, it's two movies we've covered on this show.

It's two movies we've covered on this show.

One main and one Patreon.

One main and one Patreon.

The top two films of the year.

They're movies you love.

One main and one Patreon.

They're movies that I love.

Well, this is taking too long.

We're doing good on time.

No, no, no, we gotta go.

We're doing good on time.

David, give me a look and acknowledge that we're doing pretty good on time.

Just because I'm fucking

huh?

That's me trying to look at the film.

Okay, is the number one film the main feed or the Patreon?

Oh, God.

The Patreon, I think.

It's not Star Trek.

No.

It's the Patreon.

Come on.

You love this movie.

It's a huge Griffin movie.

Start of a franchise that continues to this day.

It's not the Terminator.

No.

It's not.

Had a great release this year.

It had a great.

Slightly sarcastic.

There was a bad one this year.

I thought it was okay.

You thought it was.

A lot of people hated it.

Yeah.

How did I feel about it?

You thought it was okay.

I thought it was O.

You thought it was better than the prior one, which we both hated.

Right.

It's not alien.

No, come on.

Come on.

Griffin, Griffin, Griffin.

It's not Toy Story.

No.

What's the other one?

What's the other one?

Yeah.

It's not Robocon.

No.

It's only one of those.

For kids.

For kids.

And grown-ups.

For kids and grown-ups.

You got to give me something here.

Both of these star two of your favorite comedies.

Oh, it's a Ghostbusters movie.

It's the movie Ghostbusters.

It's 1984.

It's the movie Ghostbusters.

And what's the other one?

And then is Gremlins number two?

No, come on.

The other one, which we've covered on main feed.

Yeah.

It's not a franchise.

Yes, it is.

Start of a franchise.

They made another one this year.

They made a fucking Lego sequel to it this year.

Long dormant.

It's another huge Griffin movie, huge Griffin star.

And did I not like the new one?

We thought it was okay.

It was on fucking Netflix.

What are you supposed to say?

Oh, well.

well, you know what?

I liked it quite a bit.

I did too.

I think it's the second best.

Yeah, sure.

But I don't like two or three variants.

You don't like two.

I like two.

Two looks good.

It is Beverly Hills Comic.

So here's the thing.

Yeah.

It feels a little bit to me like those are a new kind of movie now.

The 80s are here.

Our movies are going to be a little snarkier.

They're going to be comic.

Let's say this.

They're going to be action-packed.

Those movies are also edgier than Temple of Doom.

Right.

They are going to be edgy.

They're just quote-unquote dark.

Ghost fellatio.

Yeah.

Cross.

Bananas and tailpipes.

The darkest shit imaginable.

But those are movies with like...

You're a little grown-up.

Yep.

And like Temple of Doom is a little bit like, Indiana Jones.

And it's like Kate Casha going, ah!

And everyone's like, eh, Anita and Bill Murray are cooler than that.

The thing that it's referencing is for old people.

Yeah.

But also a weird case of it being like...

Too scary for children and too babyish for grown-ups at the same time.

Like you're like adding a kid and it's the red one problem.

It's the red one problem.

And that movie had no other problems.

Olivia, have you seen red one?

No, but I've, you know, I'm going to watch it now.

I'm going to assume some content about it.

I don't say this lightly.

It's one of the worst things to ever happen in this country.

I did enjoy, again, shout out to the big picture, the episode where Sean was like, who is this for?

Yeah, I mean, what is the point?

I do think it's a true who.

I haven't seen it yet, but it strikes me as a real who is this for.

It's the ultimate, it's the most extreme example of this thing where you're like, half of the movie is designed to be boring, off-putting, or scary to children, and the other half of it is such pure baby shit that no grown-up would want to see.

It's like The Rock is like, what if I could do a Christmas movie, but like for kids, but then I could advertise on like Super Bowl Sunday.

And it's just like, that's for nobody.

It's the most algorithmic, like, let's put all the pieces people like in movies, and all those pieces are fighting each other with knives.

This movie came out Memorial Day weekend, 1984.

Okay.

Big opening weekend, but a little, JJ points out, a little fudgy because it had like a five-day, you know, whatever.

back in the day, that was found.

We were doing the year.

We weren't even doing the weekend.

This is the weekend.

This is the weekend.

Number one at the box office, though.

Indiana Jones at the Temple of Doom.

And what was the number

33?

33.

Okay.

At the time, you know.

Yeah.

It's a lot of money.

I'm excited to do ACC.

More than a budget.

Last Crusade, because that's a weekend where records keep getting broken.

Fair enough.

Where it's Last Crusade, Batman, and

Ghostbusters 2, I think.

That's a sign of break the records.

That's a sign of how things had changed.

Because when you look at this one,

you're seeing Indiana Jones at the the Temple Do number one.

Number two, it's a sports movie, but it's a movie for grown-ups.

It's a movie I love.

Based on a true...

Based on a true novel.

It's based on a true novel.

It's based on a novel.

It's based on a novel, but not based on a real athlete.

It's not the natural, is it?

It is the natural.

It is the natural.

Barry Levinson's The Natural, a movie I adore.

Have you ever seen The Natural?

I've never seen The Natural.

Olivia.

I love baseball movies.

A crack of the bat.

Yeah.

I did that baseball movie.

For love of the game.

Yes.

You guys.

Yes.

That's a movie about a magical bat.

Yeah.

A movie I think rocks.

A lot of people don't like it because it takes a movie, a book with a downbeat ending and flips it.

I think that's the right thing.

I'm just checking my notes here.

The name for those people is Losers.

We'll maybe cover Levinson one day.

You were so rude to him last year, March Madness.

Was I?

Well, that's because I was like, he's not going to win.

We did our preview and you were like, vote for Barry Levinson if you like dumb shit and you're a fucking idiot.

You guys have to do Soderbergh before you do Levinson.

If you're going you're going to do a long one, that's a long one.

Or Clinton.

Number three at the box.

Come, we did the split up and it took us seven years to get back around to the first half.

It's nice that you're kind of like looping back after a long time.

Maybe the split's kind of nice.

Blank check 10, a decade of dreams.

I think with Clint, it's the problem is you have to do like four.

Oh, Clinton would be too much, I think.

That'd be so fun.

There's just some point when we're like in our 40s where we're just like, this year is Clint.

No further questions.

We're just, the whole year is him.

If you don't like it, go eat some cheese.

I don't care.

Can I say something?

I've been holding back on saying this out loud, but I feel like I need to say it now.

Our buddy Connor Rattlef made a very profound statement to me recently.

Okay.

But I was thinking the other day, I don't know which will end first, blank check or the tonight show.

Just the tonight show broadly.

As an institution, as an institution.

He was like, that might go first.

Off the air before blank check.

That was his point.

And the tonight show, there is the question of like, when they're finally like, all all right, enough with you, Fallon.

Are they just kind of like, should we stop?

Like, right.

Do they maybe not out of embarrassment of being like, Fallon can't be the guy who brought it to the show?

Like, who would even?

I think the bigger question, too, is like, do the other shows end before Fallon begins?

Yeah, and it starts to fold into just like, yeah, there's really just one late-night show at this point.

I think their dream would be, we just outlast and we become the one-stop shopping, and there's an ecosystem that can support one telecheck.

Right.

You need your, yeah, I I don't know.

They rebrand as TikTok tonight.

Wait a second.

Wait a second.

There's an idea.

Posted by Ben Hosley.

Oh, I don't know anything about social media.

That's cool.

That's actually awesome.

That's what makes you cool.

Number, yeah, because Stephen Colbert knows so much about social media.

Like, you know, I guess Fallon does.

Did you see Fallon at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day just fucking out to lunch?

You're just like, it's another, it's sort of like the same thing with the network shows where you're like, what, there's just some show called Pussy Eater and it's like CPS 830 and you're like is anyone minding the store the same with fallon's just kind of out there looking strong

closely

eater 8 p.m tuesdays on cps

and like no and then a year later there's like young pussy eater right exactly pussy eater pussy eater now like her in college

But you're just like, like in a way that tonight's show ended years ago, right?

It's like nobody fucking watches that anymore.

And I know that's not true.

I know people do watch it, and it has YouTube clips and all that.

The tonight show is that just like when you have the other guys who are doing it so much better than Fallon is, it's like, oh, yeah, it's kind of like,

I mean, when you have Seth, who is great, but like Seth, like, I almost just don't want him to have to deal with the tonight show.

It's better that he just

has a show where he does his thing.

And also, like, once a month, Seth Meyers is like, so new thing, our show no longer has chairs.

It's true.

My, my, my, uh, clothes budget is gone, so I'll just be pixelated from now.

Um,

number three at the box office that year, network TV is just weird.

We're watching something die, and like, it, we understand why it's dying, we're not supposed to be that way.

It was weird where I was like, right, because we don't have like a fucking operating budget like the tonight show, where at some point it becomes like-I mean, I think that's also just like I feel like every week a clip from like Conan's podcast goes viral, and it's like, yeah, and it's it's like, well, this is all you really need.

If you're as talented as Conan, you don't need the whole thing.

100%

six years of his show on television, he was still doing good shit and it rarely caught fire.

But I would have great days, and we talked about this, we were just talking about this on the Dillboys thread, like of just being like, I'm going to watch every clueless gamer and have a great time.

I'm going to watch every Jordan Schlansky bit and have a great time.

Harrison Ford smashing the Millennium Falcon in front of Jordan.

That's so funny.

One of the funniest things of all time.

The funniest shit in the world.

Yes.

If anyone has

a lot of people.

That's the the funniest choice about that, are you familiar with that segment?

Yes.

I'm obsessed.

We went through like a big phase in my house of watching all the Jordan Schlansky segments.

You got to do a yearly Schlansky watch.

Did you watch the podcast?

Did you listen to the podcast where it's just him and Cornins?

I haven't yet.

I've been saving it like it each time.

I've been saving it.

It's one of those things where you're immediately like, this isn't a bit.

They're really just pissy.

Have you seen this segment?

No, I have not.

Did they do the thing where like only

when Harrison Ford came out, because Schlansky is such a big Star Wars and Indiana Jones fan, would come out and like grill Harrison Ford on some question about the makeup of the whip.

Sure.

And being like, in the second film, the whip was like this.

And in the third film, it was like this.

So which, and then Harrison Ford would just look at the camera and go, who gives a shit?

Right.

Or something like that.

You've coded like nerds.

And then they stamp a nerd thing on Schlansky's forehead.

And it was great.

So when Force Awakens came out, he came in.

He was like, we have someone on staff here.

He loves you.

He wants to show you something.

He brings out the like deluxe most ultimate Lego Millennium Falcon and was like, this cost $800.

It took me nine months to construct.

It's like 5 million pieces.

And I was wondering if you would design it.

And he's like, absolutely.

And he takes it in his lap and you like know where it's going.

But Harrison Ford makes the choice rather than to just drop it from his seated position on the floor.

He flips it over.

It's so funny.

He's like looking at it and then he goes, whoa.

It's so fucking funny.

And Schlansky's just one of those guys where you're like,

I understand he's quote unquote playing it straight, but it just seems so.

It hurts him.

Yes, it really hurt him.

Anyway, number three of the box office is a dancing movie.

Is it Lombarda?

Nope.

Is it the other one?

What's the other one?

Is it one of the breaking?

It is Breaking 2 or Electric 2.

Oh, it's just Breaking 2.

Just Breaking.

It's just Breaking.

Just Breaking.

The Guarantee for Breaking 2.

Yeah.

Electric Break.

Starring Shabadu.

Of course.

And Boogaloo.

I'm not joking.

These are the names of the dancers.

Probably their best movies.

I have never seen Breaken.

I feel like now for our generation that didn't grow up watching movies in the 80s, it's only famous for the sequels, having a hilarious title.

Wait, it stars Boogaloo?

Yeah.

So he's the one that gets electric.

I assume in the second movie, he gets plugged in to level 10.

That's some stuff that we've got at the Newport Holt Custom.

Traitor!

You're supposed to do analog dancing.

Oh, God.

Have you seen Complete Unknown?

Not yet.

I'm excited to.

It fucks so hard.

It's so good.

You should watch it next to Jordan Hoffman.

That's like 4DX, Complete Unknown.

Just him being like, that's Dave Van Ronk.

And I'm like, yeah, I know Jordan.

He's like,

number four at the box office, and this is interesting, Griffin, is an Indiana Jones-type movie that we've covered on this podcast.

Is it Romancing the Stone?

Wow.

I was thinking about that the whole time I was watching this.

And I imagine a lot of people are walking on Temple of Doom being like, you know what?

I had more fun like three weeks ago with Romancing the Stone.

Kathy Turner doing a much better version of a willie scott type thing yeah that's crazy they were out the same time that's isn't that crazy that's crazy and of course danny devito literally in it after supposed to be in raiders yeah that kind of blow my mind number five at the box office is uh an iconic uh

teen film

with uh

yeah

you know that that's really good it's a cues it's a huge breakfast club no it and it has it has one hugely problematic element that doesn't really matter 16 candles 16 this is yeah the first big one and it has kind of a doofy guy, you know, but a guy is a doofy guy.

He's all right.

I also like that he just never acted again.

Yeah.

Yeah, he's just a wood.

He's just hot.

Yeah.

Pretty hot.

But I love 16 Candles because Molly Ringwald's so good in it.

And like the family stuff is good.

It's a good movie.

See, I used to be a real stick in the mud about the idea of doing Hughes.

Hughes.

Oh, I just

push it.

Yeah.

And you'd push back.

You'd push back.

It's not that many, though, that he only directed.

What is it?

Let's see.

So I see.

My whole problem is

that I fucking hate ferris bueller you hate ferris bueller he's such a big wanna

god 16 i mean i love the movie about his sister that exists in my mind breakfast club weird science ferris bueller wait wait 16 candles breakfast club yeah weird science ferris bueller playing trains and automobiles great movie

she's having a baby

curly sue uncle uncle buck curly sue and then curly sue uncle buck is one of my favorite movies it's only and my roommate molly would have to be on the uncle buck episode sure my former roommate i I mean, she doesn't live with me anymore.

I got married.

She was going to say, weird widow and your wife.

Yeah, Ben would go off on the Uncle Buck episode.

Oh, my God.

That's a funny.

That's just two months.

That's just two months.

That's two months.

That's just two months.

Fine, let's do it.

I don't know.

We're going to have to talk about Chicago a lot.

We're doing it.

Yeah.

Fran will have to be on one.

Big Chicago.

And Shannon.

Your 10.

Decade of Dreams.

Shannon and then Michael Shannon?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Big Chicago.

Number six is the original Police Academy.

Okay.

Number one.

Number seven, the Jabari Moore.

Yeah.

Go tell him, Griffin.

Yeah.

I just, I couldn't stand by idly

at me saying the word police.

People think these policemen know how to walk without slipping, without any hijinks, and that movie proves otherwise.

And can they make sound effects?

That's what they're saying.

I've always wondered, is there a cop who can make sound effects?

They only speak in full words.

What if Eric Adams was like, great news?

I'm reforming the NYPD.

I got Michael Winslow.

He's going to zoo everything up.

I'd maybe vote for him.

Eric Adams might have been out of office by the time this episode comes out.

Yeah.

He might get a pardon.

Oh, God.

25 is going to suck so funny.

Decade of dreams.

Yay!

Number seven at the box office is Firestarter, which you know, I've never seen.

I've never seen it either.

Well, maybe we should watch it.

Yeah.

You want to light up?

Spark up?

That's a Kings Things series.

We could do something.

They sure did.

Yeah, that was a real like, even Peacock doesn't want you to see that one.

And John Carpenter did the score.

I think you're right.

With his son.

Mark Lester movie.

Yeah.

Number eight is Splash, a movie I've seen so many times

as a kid.

I was just watching, I don't know what drove me there, but on YouTube, the side-by-side comparison of the Splash Theatrical versus the Disney Plus hair butt.

Do you remember the hair button?

One of the funniest things that's ever

funny.

It's so bad.

Do you know about this, Ben?

Yeah, they

we definitely talked about the hair butt all right do you know about the new scandal wait what's the new scandal shout factory put riddick out on 4k for the first time i saw that yeah here's daryl hannah's hair butt

whoa wait that's actually insane that's so bad and it's in motion it's worse

because it was done very hastily they just added an extra six inches of hair that looks like it was glued onto her butt cheeks and doesn't move properly riddick yeah a movie about a man whose actions I do not holistically endorse.

No, he's a little problematic.

He could be a little bit of a CAD, this guy.

Sure.

There's a moment at the end of the film in which he squeezes Katie Setoff's rear end.

And this 4K comes out, and people are now up in arms.

I've removed that.

The coolest, most chill physical media subreddits.

I have taken out my old copy, my universal disc.

I've compared both the theatrical.

And these are very gender-balanced subreddits, too, right?

Where it's like 50-50.

There is a premature fade-out.

Shout Factory must release the butt cut and explain what happened.

And it's now this thing where half the people are getting really angry about like film censorship and they need to be explicit in these things and preservation is important.

And the other half of the people are like, it's really funny that you noticed this.

It's funny that you noticed this and that you took the time to compare four versions of the movie and are getting up in arms about Riddick squeezing a butt one time.

Number nine at the box office: Footloose.

Oh, sure.

Two dancing movies in the top 10.

It was hot.

And number 10, Greystroke, The Legend of Tarzan and the Apes.

Yeah.

Which is the one with Christopher Lambert, right?

Yeah.

We could do a little Tarzan series.

That might get repetitive, right?

Think of all the yelling bits we do.

Which got an Oscar nom for

Mal Fritchardson, right?

It got like an old legend Oscar.

I got a makeup nom.

Sure.

The gorilla works pretty good in that film.

You're right, Rick Baker.

Thank you.

I know some of these things.

You'd certainly know about Rick Baker, but he lost to Amadeus.

So fuck you, Baker.

Oh, sure.

Do you think he was like Sally Aerry in the stands?

Yeah.

Yeah, he also sat in the stands wearing old age makeup.

Rick Baker.

I can do better.

Give me the rundown of the Temple of Doom Oscar nominations.

It did get visual effects, I think.

I think it got only two.

I'll double-check that.

It got a best score nomination.

Okay.

You know, the score is fantastic.

I'll say this.

For how much I'm like sitting there and the existence of Willie Scott is irking me at every moment.

Close my eyes.

I listen to that score and I'm fucking hateful.

It's just, I'm sure you guys talked about it on Raiders, but done, done, done, done is like, it's like, wow, you're a genius.

It's like the most brilliant thing ever.

And it's not like that complex, but it is just like, oh, that's.

I can't believe no one thought of that.

But then like Short Round's theme in this is like so lush and beautiful.

That's the magic of Williams as you realize, like, oh, yeah, he actually just churned out like six iconic, brilliant things.

I remember this thing watching Jaws, where it's like, oh, right, the brilliance of just being two notes.

And then you listen to Jaws.

And then the rest of it is like, it's like the most beautiful sweeping orca theme.

He's incredible with the theme.

Yeah.

And he'll come up with like nine bangers in one score.

It lost best score to a passage to India Maurice Jarr.

I don't actually know that score.

I assume it's very big and David Leany.

Randy Newman nominated for the natural there.

Kind of insane.

He does not win.

That is one of the most iconic pieces of music in movies.

He was one of the most losing.

I know.

I know.

But it's like, why did he lose here?

No, I agree.

Yeah.

You want me to keep going?

Yeah, please.

Yeah.

He also fucking lost your toy story.

Well, sure.

Can I pitch it?

Well, sure, me.

And it won Visual Effects over Ghostbusters and 2010.

Can I pitch a porn idea?

Yeah.

I thought you just said.

Once you have two nominations?

Only two.

Wow.

I thought you just said, can I pitch a porn idea?

All right, so there's the guy.

Indiana Jones and then Temple of Poon.

Indiana Bones.

Indiana Bones and the Temple of Poon.

There you go.

And that's how you make the big books in this.

In her panty bones.

All right.

Now we've gone too far.

And the Temple of Poon.

Time to break for lunch.

A theme restaurant.

Okay.

About the career of John Williams.

Go.

I'm listening.

So

he he showcases all of his different themes.

And this translates to food how.

Yeah.

Bump it up.

Hamburger, french fries.

This is just one of those classic Ben ideas where you're like, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

You could do it.

But I'm in.

Griffin is on the floor.

I just want to say that for the listener.

Griffin is on the floor.

I'm going to write that out better.

I don't know.

The waiter tells you.

This poor waiter

every time you're like hey can I have a hamburger and he's like

no it's it's like when there's something like yeah when there's something crazy on the menu and you have to be like can I get the like slap your mama tongue twister whatever but it would instead be like can I get the bum ba bum bum hamburger fries hamburger fries how do you want that cooked medium rare

I do not have the hubris to think that I can predict where Ben is ever going Truly, like I answer.

Does it make any sense?

What did he just say?

Does it make any fucking sense?

Sometime he is watching.

But there are so many more options we could go with.

Anytime he is teeing a bit up,

I sit back with humility and I go, I am in his hands.

I have no control over this.

But God, I was so confident that Banta Da Da was going to lead into something that starts with a ba or a da.

He's surely not just going to take a different food item and break it into the rhythm of the theme.

It'll be like bop ba bap ba bolognese.

You can't make the menu too challenging.

No, but I think it's so brilliant because

what are the rules?

All right.

Because the themes are so

recognizable that you could do like dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun chicken tender.

Well, that was good.

Ben, what do you think?

I like it.

All right, good.

I just

imagine some like Saudi financier where you're like, I need $800 million for a franchise, you know, across the world.

Big lorry's at yours are burning right now.

Hamburger fries, the guys like security.

Just hammering that silent alarm.

I texted this to Blank, though, but I had an incredible dream recently that the Times Square Planet Hollywood reopened and every floor was a different property.

And they were like, and we're doing TV now.

And one floor was the Sopranos.

Sure.

Full Full circle.

But then it was like, here's the Spider-Verse floor.

And like, the menus are different.

The theming's crazy.

But they weren't singing.

That was, that's the flaw.

My brain couldn't think that.

Right.

You're that wide.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You couldn't turn off the dark.

I couldn't turn off the dark.

Is that the end of the top town?

Yeah, that's it.

David, can you just tell me what the other films in the top five of the year for 84 were?

Out of curiosity.

Yeah, you're at 1984 domestic box office.

So we have Ghostbusters, Beverly House Cup, Indiana Jones at the top.

Yeah, and then

fucking box office mojo is messy.

I don't know what we're talking about.

It's a great website.

It works.

It works properly.

Numbers.

Here we go.

Okay.

Much better.

Gremlins is number four.

Okay.

The only other 100 million grocer of the year.

Was Gremlins?

Yes.

Gremlins ended up at

151.

That's crazy.

It was so big.

Yeah.

Number five is the Karate Kid.

Okay.

Number six is

we already mentioned it, and then please get your rejoinder ready, Police Academy.

ACAP.

Number seven is Foot Loose.

Number eight is Star Trek 3, The Search for Spot.

Spock?

Not Spot.

Spot is under the rug.

I've read where Spot many, many times.

Or is he in the basket?

I can't remember.

Number nine is Romancing the Stone.

And number 10 is Purpa Rain.

That's a pretty fascinating snapshot, 10.

Yeah, Yeah, I mean, it's a pretty good year.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I mean, it's a lot of movies that got sequelized.

I was going to say.

Yeah.

Every one of those movies is either continuing a franchise or becomes some sort of

Foot Loose gets a remake and a Broadway show.

It does.

Like it does.

Much later.

But it becomes a...

And Purple Rain gets a sort of quasi-sequel in a weird way.

Sure.

Not a bad movie.

We talked about covering him.

Maybe.

Maybe he'll be on March Madness again.

At this point, it'll be settled.

I think he will be, right?

I think he will be.

Right?

The format we're going for, I think.

I think the format we're going for, he'll be there.

People will know it's March.

It's March.

Yay!

Olivia, yeah.

Thank you so much for being here.

Oh, my gosh, guys.

I will move back to New York in a year and a half.

But in the meantime, if you're blinking and you see me at the Elmwood Rialto in Berkeley, California,

say hi.

Oh, please do say.

And call in any burger reports, please.

Please.

True.

There aren't a lot of celebs in the East Bay.

It's got to be one or two.

A couple trends.

Booth Riley lives in Oakland, so I'll probably see him as well.

Finally, working on another movie, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Anything you want to plug?

I work at thecut.com.

Hell yeah.

I'm the person who picks the essays.

Just kidding.

I love the choice.

I'm anonymous.

I love choosing the essays.

Yes, I'm the one who everyone sends in their essays, and I say this one.

No, I anytime I read one, I go, well picked.

I'm in the I'm blogging every day at the cut, so you can just type that into your phone and you'll find me fab I gotta go make pasta yeah I gotta go see a musical with my which one maybe happy ending the Darren Chris one

no sense of if that's good or not neither do I so I'm excited pesto pasta no I'm making a ragu yeah that feels like is that a recent shift

I mean, it's not for my daughter.

It's not for your daughter.

No, it's for everyone else.

I mean, my daughter will, I'm sure, eat mac and cheese or pesto like she does every single night.

Okay, so see, that's why I was guessing pesto because no, no, it's a fair guess.

It's a fair guess.

Thank you very much.

Thank you all for listening.

You have a deck you have to not talk about want to test your house.

I'm talking about creating

baby

for us.

Walking away, I don't know what's going on.

This is kind of a weird thing.

Things have taken a temple of doom turn.

We got to get back above ground.

We got to get back above ground.

On the Patreon right now?

Yes.

We just recently did just yesterday analyze.

No, we'll be doing.

We are now,

we did our second entry in the Star Trek.

Yes, The Next Generation.

Card era.

Fun.

But we're including Galaxy Quest with that.

I love that movie.

It's a perfect movie.

And I just found out that Ben has never seen it.

We're going to have a

fresh on like first-time.

Oh, my God.

You're going to love it.

I think it's going to kind of blow his mind.

Yeah.

I told him it is one of the.

perfect movies.

Alan Rickman is incredible.

The thing is, every time I watch it, I'm like, who's my best supporting actor pick?

And it changes every time.

Yeah.

Everyone is good in it.

Everyone's great in it.

It's incredible.

Anyway, look forward to that.

Hell yeah.

In April.

Yeah, that'll be April 1st.

Is that right?

April 21st.

Okay, a little later.

Also, then later this month, we'll do a Spielberg bonus episode

about the Twilight Zone, the movie, as well as only his segment.

Right.

But then his two amazing story segments.

Correct.

Yes.

Spielberg

Yeah.

And tune in next week for an episode on The Color Purple.

A movie.

Probably be just as goofy as this.

I was going to say.

I imagine.

And you know what?

You're allowed to make that joke, and I'm glad you did.

Thank you all.

And as always,

hamburger.

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims.

Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley.

Our creative producer is Marie Bardy Salinas, and our associate producer is AJ McKeon.

This show is mixed and edited by A.J.

McKeon and Alan Smithy.

Research by J.J.

Birch.

Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell.

Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds.

Our production assistant is Minick.

Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help.

Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit.

Join our Patreon, BlankCheck Special Features, for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes.

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This podcast is created and produced by BlankCheck Productions.