John Mayer (FBF)

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Speaker 1 What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy.

Speaker 1 John Mayer, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

Speaker 2 Thank you, Alex.

Speaker 1 I am so happy you're here. John, I think we need to tell the daddy gang, who are my listeners, how did we get here?

Speaker 1 Because we went to a little dinner the other night, and I want to kind of go through what happened at that dinner because people are probably like, how did you get John Mayer to come on your show?

Speaker 3 There's only one way, which is to find me personally, have dinner with me, be cool. And you're actually an incredible pitch woman for coming on.
the show.

Speaker 3 And I didn't really have an intention of coming on. We had a great dinner, Kazzie, David, you, and me.

Speaker 3 And I think there's something to do with December where you've all year been yourself,

Speaker 3 followed your rules, done what you normally do, don't do what you don't normally do. And I think somewhere in the last couple weeks of each year, I go,

Speaker 3 I want to do something out of character.

Speaker 1 I'm so happy this is what you're calling out of character, and you get to sit down with me because I, yeah, I pitched you, like, why you should come on the show.

Speaker 1 And you and I kind of like battled for a minute. Meanwhile, Kazzi's sitting there, like, eating her chips, like, loving every second of it, just being so happy that she was a debate.

Speaker 2 It was a debate.

Speaker 1 And you decided to come on. What I liked about that meeting at dinner was that you are very sure of yourself.

Speaker 1 Have you always been that confident? Like, what were you like in high school?

Speaker 3 Oh, that's...

Speaker 3 I've had some degree of confidence. It took that to get out of my town, to get into the world, to push against the forces of people who were saying,

Speaker 3 not just not encouraging me but actively discouraging me from doing what I ultimately have done and so

Speaker 3 the quality of that confidence has changed from like a beat down every door

Speaker 3 push yourself on people as much as you can all the time to something um

Speaker 3 way more relaxed so everyone when they first start out is way more confident than they need to be because they don't know how confident they need to be, right?

Speaker 2 Oh, interesting.

Speaker 3 And so it was kind of obnoxious when I was younger.

Speaker 3 I mean, if you're spending your whole youth pushing against these forces of you can't do it, you're crazy, you're going to end up on the street, this is a terrible idea.

Speaker 3 That's going to have a hangover effect on you for a long time where you're going to still keep pushing.

Speaker 1 That's really interesting because I can imagine, like, I was, why I'm asking about high school is because I feel like we can agree that there are such formative years where peer approval socially is so important towards the way that you view yourself.

Speaker 1 How did you get along with people and how did people treat you?

Speaker 3 I didn't and they didn't. I

Speaker 3 didn't have a presence. I went to school to get it over with and my life began at three o'clock in the afternoon when I came home and played guitar.

Speaker 3 So I didn't dislike anybody and I almost didn't even need that particular level of approval. I was kind of invisible and I just went to go.
I didn't really pay attention in class.

Speaker 3 It's really hard to explain. And there are people out there who I think would understand when you're 13 years old, you got five years before you can even do anything on your own.

Speaker 3 And that was the hardest part of my entire life, was from 13 to getting out of high school because you already know what you know, and you have to go through the rest of this kind of rote plan that's been set for everyone.

Speaker 3 And I remember sitting in class going like, I'm not supposed to be here.

Speaker 1 Right, like you, you're, so you're saying you knew what what you wanted to do you knew you were going to be a musician you're like why am i in social studies like what the fuck am i doing here did people bully you like were you the like dorky musician or no i was bullied a little bit but i was always kind of big it was tall

Speaker 3 i remember getting um punched in the arm for flinching i don't know if you've if that's still a thing this is the most butch your show has ever been i'm talking to i love it talking to you about christmas special were okay did you date in high school i had one girlfriend in high school, but I didn't really date.

Speaker 3 I had one girlfriend in high school.

Speaker 1 What were you like in like what was John like in high school dating?

Speaker 3 Probably the best version I ever was of myself. I would like to think that was the best version, and the next time is the best version.
I only had one girlfriend before

Speaker 3 everything changed in my life. To me, like

Speaker 3 the truest, most innocent, realist, like sweetest. It was high school.

Speaker 1 Did you ever, through your fame, wonder if you should reach back out to yourself?

Speaker 3 I did reach back out a few times.

Speaker 1 Because you were looking for what?

Speaker 3 Maybe to bring that part of my life into the new part of my life.

Speaker 3 But by that point,

Speaker 3 she was married and had kids, and I thought

Speaker 3 that's a separate chapter, or that thing in my life was a separate chapter. I don't have to talk to people to know that I'm okay, that we're okay.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I think that's telepathic.

Speaker 1 I liked you said that at dinner just something about like there's certain people in your life that you don't need to be in their life anymore but it's really cool when you have a mutual understanding whether it's an ex whether it's someone that was your friend at some point to just be like we don't need to talk to know like we're good we're all right we don't talk anymore for whatever reason but like

Speaker 3 yeah i mean there are a couple little outstanding still vibrating things yeah i would love to get to a hundred percent closure i don't think that's realistic in anyone's life do you have someone in your life that it's it's always going to be incomplete?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I think everyone has a couple of those. But for the most part, it's been important for me to move on into my adult years in my life with the peace of like, we're cool.
We don't have to talk.

Speaker 1 Okay, so we're about to leave high school because I'm just kind of going through the journey of you. Yes.
You performed at your high school graduation. Yes, I did.
Were people nice to you then or no?

Speaker 3 Yeah, that was right around the time where I started to reveal myself as a guitar player. And I had put I was in a band and we had written a couple songs.
We'd written a song for graduation.

Speaker 3 I didn't actually graduate at that ceremony. So I didn't get enough credits to graduate.
I had to go to summer school.

Speaker 3 And so it was a very deep moment to play that song and walk off the field while the rest of my friends graduated and I walked home.

Speaker 1 Okay, but just so everyone knows. How bluesy is that? Six years later,

Speaker 1 you're a Grammy winning artist.

Speaker 3 This part freaks me out. Chronologically speaking, this part is maybe one of the only aspects of my life that truly blows my mind.
Why? Because it's such a short period of time that felt longer to me.

Speaker 3 I graduated in 1995, and six years later,

Speaker 3 I was playing Arenas.

Speaker 3 You know, at that point, I was playing clubs, but I had an album out

Speaker 3 that would end up winning Grammys, and that was six, that was six years.

Speaker 1 So it didn't really fucking matter that you had to go to summer school. You're like, I didn't even need to graduate.

Speaker 3 And you know what I always think now is like, there are people who get branded misfit, loser, you know,

Speaker 3 you know, in some way sort of developmentally disabled. No, they're not.
They're on some other track that they have no school for, you know?

Speaker 1 I love that you're saying that too, because it goes back to what you said of like, I was sitting in that class and I knew I wasn't supposed to be there, but I had to be there. You try lyrics.

Speaker 1 It's interesting to hear you say, like, it's so crazy to me that six years after I graduate college, I'm winning a Grammy for Your Body is a Wonderland.

Speaker 1 You were dating someone at the time that you're writing this iconic song, which

Speaker 2 you weren't?

Speaker 3 No, that was about my first girlfriend. Wait, that was about the feeling, which I think was already sort of nostalgic.
I was 21 when I wrote that song, and I was nostalgic for being 16.

Speaker 1 I thought it was about a different celebration.

Speaker 3 No, that's one of those things

Speaker 2 where

Speaker 3 people just sort of form that idea. It gets reinforced over the years.
No, no, no. I had never met a celebrity when I wrote that song.

Speaker 1 And did your high school girlfriend know you wrote that about her?

Speaker 3 That's a good question. Maybe she didn't.

Speaker 1 Maybe she didn't. To this day?

Speaker 3 To this day, maybe she didn't.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 So if you were

Speaker 3 my one and only high school girlfriend, that was actually about you.

Speaker 3 And this happens a lot with songs, right? So I've made a rule, I guess I always had a rule, that I would never tell anyone

Speaker 3 what.

Speaker 3 I don't write songs about people. I don't write them for people or about people.
I might use a relationship that inspires me to write something.

Speaker 3 So yeah, even if I was writing a song because of someone, it's like

Speaker 3 that goes away and I'm left with the song. So I'm not,

Speaker 3 I don't like telling anyone that a song is about somebody because most of the time it's not and it takes people away from themselves because they're just visualizing who I'm writing about.

Speaker 3 But the songs come out, they mean things to people. Sometimes people think it's about one person or another.
Sometimes it hurts the song.

Speaker 3 Sometimes the song doesn't do as well because people go, well, he's just petty. And I go, that's got nothing to do with that.

Speaker 3 But I'd much rather keep the sanctity of these songs intact and have a couple of them kind of burn a couple of them because people think it's about one person and it's not, because it's really important.

Speaker 3 The most important thing in my life now is are my songs. Yep.

Speaker 3 And so when I go play songs now, I'm playing songs that I see people in the crowd are reliving their life. It ain't about anyone but the people I'm singing to.
It's now about their college years.

Speaker 3 It's about their sick family member who died. It's about their fight with cancer and how they beat beat it.
It's these songs now for people are these waypoints in their lives.

Speaker 3 It's not about any one person. You know, the first three records of my life was just like proving, proving, and you should.

Speaker 3 And then you start hearing people tell you, thank you. Your music got me through a dark time.
That's so much deeper.

Speaker 3 I mean, I definitely think everyone should have those prove-it years and enjoy them. Yeah.
Because I definitely did. Like, now do you see?

Speaker 3 Now do you see? And I had a lot of that.

Speaker 3 I had a lot that I had to get out when I first started. And it was obnoxious to them.
And I get it.

Speaker 3 And I think it explains a lot of younger people who have just hit the scene who you're like, this person is fucking obnoxious.

Speaker 3 I have a lot of grace for it because you never know how hard someone had to punch to get out of their town or their family or a relation.

Speaker 3 And you just,

Speaker 3 I think that's where people were like, I got the douchebag title a lot. And I was trying incredibly hard.

Speaker 3 But I had been trying incredibly hard since I first played the guitar to get where I needed to get. I couldn't get the message like, John, they like you just fine.

Speaker 2 You can calm down.

Speaker 3 They like you just fine.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You know?

Speaker 1 I really appreciate you explaining it that way because I

Speaker 1 now

Speaker 1 too have a different opinion, especially maybe in the music industry or, you know, actors and actresses.

Speaker 1 Like the way that maybe people are being perceived online and the way they're acting probably is really not who they are. It's they're trying to elevate to get the attention, to get the approval.

Speaker 1 And eventually, as you see people in their careers, and this is, you don't even have to be famous to have this. You can be doing it at your job.
You can be doing it socially.

Speaker 1 You're trying to make a name for yourself. You're trying to have a presence.
And it probably feels inauthentic, but you want to be seen. You want to be heard.
You want to feel accepted.

Speaker 1 And that can lead to you feeling like, what, am I even being myself right now? So I respect that.

Speaker 3 That's, thank you. I I mean, that's what everyone goes through.

Speaker 3 Everyone, by the time they grow up, have grace for other people on the way up as they fight through those things.

Speaker 3 The people who are the most vicious are the people who have yet to ask for grace because they don't need it yet.

Speaker 2 Because

Speaker 3 they still have this view of the world, like they're in total control and they're going to make all the right decisions for the rest of their lives until they don't.

Speaker 3 And I feel like that's just something everyone passes through.

Speaker 1 What do you cherish the most about the rise of your career?

Speaker 3 Oh, that's a great question.

Speaker 3 The rise or where I am now?

Speaker 3 I'll tell you that. I'll answer both.
The rise is that it was during a really cool time.

Speaker 3 I don't think I would have had the same success I have now if I had begun

Speaker 3 three years ago. I think I'd be

Speaker 3 trying and trying and trying on social media and trying to get things out there. I mean, there was just so fewer people doing things that you automatically had more people paying attention.

Speaker 3 So I'm really lucky that I came up when there were just fewer cars on the road in terms of, you know, making songs and having people pay attention to you and being seen. And now,

Speaker 3 where I am now,

Speaker 3 the greatest thing is that any idea that I have, I can do.

Speaker 3 Any idea that I have. I feel like like if there was a song idea that I had for any musician in the world, I'd have a pretty good chance of them at least listening to it.
And

Speaker 3 that's really interesting to me. That to me is the greatest thing.

Speaker 3 The songs I already have, that I'll take for the rest of my life, but also

Speaker 3 any idea that I have, I think any musician in the world would want to go like, I want to hear what Mare has for me.

Speaker 3 So I feel like that's the idea that I could bring anything to life that came to mind, that's the ultimate for me.

Speaker 1 I'm interested, so as your rise to fame, how did your interactions with women change?

Speaker 3 Oh,

Speaker 3 that's a good question. And

Speaker 3 I think I saw

Speaker 3 the approval of women

Speaker 3 as being something that was like, each time somebody

Speaker 3 liked what I did, I felt like, because of the way that I was brought up,

Speaker 3 that that was the only time that was going to happen.

Speaker 3 And so

Speaker 3 I feel like I was made to believe growing up that if somebody liked me, that was pretty much an accident. And that should be capitalized on.
And so

Speaker 3 I felt very deeply when somebody liked me.

Speaker 3 Very deeply.

Speaker 3 I think,

Speaker 3 look, you know, the elephant in the room is that I'm on a show that

Speaker 3 caters to women, and I have a couple of

Speaker 3 nameplates on me, like Lothario and Womanizer and stuff. And I think, look, that is what that is.
That's the role I play on the big TV show that I didn't write. That's fine.

Speaker 3 Maybe I had a hand in it or something. But

Speaker 3 I think people would be surprised to know that it was less me going like, you know, the meme of the guy behind the tree. It was less this and more like this.

Speaker 2 Me?

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. You know, because it was, it was always set forth to me that like

Speaker 3 that shouldn't happen.

Speaker 1 Right. Like without dissecting into your childhood,

Speaker 1 the a woman's approval and attention to you. Clearly there was an insecurity within you that you perk up and would fight till the end to make sure that you're getting to

Speaker 1 experience that as long as they're willing to give it to you. And you're like waiting for someone to give you the approval and that like

Speaker 1 breathed life into you essentially. And you loved a woman giving you attention or validation.

Speaker 3 Most of that is true and it's so true. It's like, I can't even...
I won't even flat spin about that after this is over. I won't even, that's, some things are too true for me to get upset about.

Speaker 3 That's remarkably true what you just said, except it was a little less overt in terms of me being like, yeah, keep going, keep going.

Speaker 3 Because I did invest myself.

Speaker 3 I did invest myself in relationships.

Speaker 1 Well, and I think we can also agree, and we talked about this a little bit at dinner, like...

Speaker 1 You have perspective now, right? Like we can wrap things into a bow now. It's like, oh, I see what I was doing in high school, why I was so insecure, and then I was looking for the guy's validation.

Speaker 1 And then like I can now see what I was doing in the moment you have the feelings but you can't put it all into a box you now can be like I get it now I get what I was doing I see the interactions I had and now I see this theme and now I'm able in later in my life to be like whoa that's why I did what I did also known as growing up what a fucking concept also known as growing up and like like I said like the people who are gonna

Speaker 3 understand

Speaker 3 this interview the most are the people who have had that.

Speaker 3 Either been on the receiving end or the giving end of that. You know, it's the people who haven't had that yet who will probably have the loudest reactions because they don't understand it yet.

Speaker 3 And we all meet up

Speaker 3 at the end of this. At the end of these crazy 20s and 30s, we all meet up.

Speaker 3 And I meet people, I can't remember if they were mad at me or if I was mad at them because we all meet up after this craziness and we all go through our own stuff, you know?

Speaker 3 We all meet up at the end and we go, hey, how you doing?

Speaker 1 This is, I'm sure, a hard question to answer. What is it like?

Speaker 1 Try your best

Speaker 2 for

Speaker 1 almost everyone in the world to know who you are.

Speaker 3 Because I don't really live exposed to all of it.

Speaker 3 I don't quite feel it, and I'm okay with it because it's linked to something that I have to do anyway.

Speaker 3 I get to do this thing. And if I'm having a day where I don't like any of this stuff, I can pick up a guitar and listen to myself play and go, that's why you do it.

Speaker 3 So the fact that this is all linked to something that I do objectively well, that I can listen to and I can write a song, I can play a song, I can play the guitar.

Speaker 3 That's what anchors me to all this stuff. All of this is happening because I play the guitar, write music, and sing in a way that people want to pay attention to.

Speaker 3 I can't imagine what this would be like if I didn't have that grounding element.

Speaker 3 And as I get older, I have so much empathy for people who are really well known, but don't quite have something to hold on to, like a buoy.

Speaker 3 You know, my life gives me this buoy, which is I can write a song, I can play guitar.

Speaker 3 It's tough even that way, but it's not like I'm famous from a thing that happened to me or a thing I was a part of that I was no longer a part of because the person who hired me for the thing didn't want me anymore.

Speaker 3 So it's very stable.

Speaker 3 I've come to terms with the fact that it's never going to be another way.

Speaker 3 And most of it now, because I don't really interface with people for anything other than music, For the most part, it's like I have manufactured irrelevance in the parts of my career that I want to be irrelevant.

Speaker 3 That is is really scary to do. It's really scary to come off of that loop when you're in a news cycle, news cycle, news cycle.
To really go,

Speaker 3 I want to shut down this part, that part, that part, and that part, and feel like you're dying inside because those parts are going away.

Speaker 3 Now all I have left is like people who want to talk to me want to talk to me about music I make. People aren't, I'm not trending on Twitter just because I got on a flight.
And it was tough.

Speaker 3 It was tough to be like, yeah, you're going to play music. You're going to play music music and you're gonna put it all into that and not

Speaker 1 a day trading how people feel about you so you're saying that you didn't essentially play the role of the guy in Hollywood the singer everything didn't work well that people started like you said like people started writing headlines about I didn't deserve the role Why do you think that?

Speaker 3 It wasn't made for me. I'm the musician guy who writes songs that are like kind of hits.
And I thought that I was just through my own manipulation of the thing was an A-lister.

Speaker 3 And I was going to, I'm an A, I'm an A-list celebrity. It's like, no, you're not.
But I had this moment in my 20s where I thought, well, this is where I belong. This is where I should be.

Speaker 3 And obviously it wasn't because I didn't really handle it very well. You know, I was like, didn't handle it very well.
And so then that all kind of shut down. And I got a chance to start it up again.

Speaker 3 And I haven't ever been happier in my life. I'm known for what I do.

Speaker 1 You're kind of essentially alluding to like, you fucked up in your 20s or that's what you're doing.

Speaker 3 Yeah, late 20s, early 30s.

Speaker 1 Okay. And that kind of set you on a different course of,

Speaker 1 I've got a, okay.

Speaker 3 But a more natural course. I'm only doing what I should be doing.

Speaker 3 And I think there's a lot of people who are stuck in that loop of like not being where they want to be, but not wanting to be forgotten.

Speaker 3 And it's scary the idea that if you pulled away, you'd be forgotten. That if you if you got off Twitter, you'd be forgotten.

Speaker 3 That if you didn't throw yourself into the mix every day, you'd be forgotten. It's beautiful to be forgotten in the ways you ultimately don't want to be known.
You know?

Speaker 1 What is an experience

Speaker 1 that shaped who you are that very few people know about?

Speaker 3 That's a good one.

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Speaker 3 Anxiety, deep

Speaker 3 anxiety before there was a social media that could tell you what anxiety was.

Speaker 3 Not to say it makes it any easier, but anxiety

Speaker 3 feeds off of feeling isolated by it. And so it's a little bit easier now when you can read other people's experiences and go, oh, okay.

Speaker 3 I mean, having anxiety in mid-90s, late 90s, it's like, you think you're going crazy, you know? And so that to me

Speaker 3 gave me so much more depth. So much more depth.
Those feelings, those feelings of panic, those feelings of the walls are closing in,

Speaker 3 they come with questions. They come with every question.

Speaker 3 Why can't I sleep? What's going on in the the universe? What's going on in my body? Turns into hypochondria.

Speaker 3 Is my heart beating faster?

Speaker 3 Is my throat closing? Why do I feel my pulse in my ear? And you're on WebMD looking up everything. And whatever that is, also makes you super keyed in to yourself in a way that for me, I wrote

Speaker 3 a lot of my music came from wanting answers. after feeling really, really lost because I lost my weight just in my head.

Speaker 4 Like

Speaker 3 it got to the point where when I would have an anxious moment, I'd be like, well, here comes a song. Do you ever get that?

Speaker 1 Totally. But I think there's points where I was worried that

Speaker 1 good content sometimes comes at your lowest. And

Speaker 1 it's really hard to describe unless you're a creator where you're

Speaker 1 wondering if you're self-destructing to like you're going to write a great sad song if you go through a great breakup i'm gonna have an incredible episode if i break up with my partner for i but at what cost for you as an individual outside of your craft and your job is that extremely detrimental to just your life i never and i can say this with great confidence i never tried to induce an experience just to write a song ever in my life ever i've never thought if i do this i'll get get material.

Speaker 3 I promise you, I would have absolutely, in those moments, as a 20, 21, 22, 23-year-old guy, traded every song I was going to write to not have that feeling. No doubt about it.
No doubt about it.

Speaker 3 I would have said, take all the songs I'll ever write, stop this feeling from happening right now.

Speaker 3 And for whatever that feeling was,

Speaker 3 it

Speaker 3 just focused

Speaker 3 my eyes on the important things. What's going on in life? What is, that's where these lyrics come from.
You know, that's where my first three records are from.

Speaker 2 They're about

Speaker 3 managing anxiety.

Speaker 3 Why Georgia? Why am I fucking here? Am I living it right?

Speaker 3 Like, why am I here? You know, there's a song, Not Myself, on the first record. Would you want me one? That's all about having a panic attack in front of somebody.
Suppose I said, I, I, you know,

Speaker 3 you know, would you love me? I don't remember the lyrics, but like, would you want me when I'm not myself? Like, you ever have a panic attack on a date?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 3 Oh, man, that's, that's how you bond with someone right there.

Speaker 1 John. That's how you bond.

Speaker 1 Do you often have a panic attack?

Speaker 2 Yes. Do you want to go to a date?

Speaker 3 Well, I mean, they make things you could take now for that, but I, yeah, I'm. No.
I went. Okay, so.
I went on a date.

Speaker 3 I was going on a date on my senior year in high school with like one of the prettiest girls. Couldn't believe that I'd gotten to the point where like this girl wanted to go to the movies with me.

Speaker 3 I didn't drive until I was out of high school. So I was writing shotgun.
So right there, I'm being driven by the girl I'm going on the date with. By the time we got to the movie theater,

Speaker 3 and I was eating like Tom's because I had such bad nervous stomach. This is before like you figured out benzodiazepines.
And I was eating Tom's stomachache.

Speaker 3 And before we even got out of the car, I was like, I have a stomachache. Can you drive me home? And she drove me all the way home.
And I got home. And as soon as I got home, I was like,

Speaker 3 I'm deeply uncomfortable

Speaker 3 in a lot of situations. And so for a really long time, I would resist

Speaker 3 going out with anybody because it would make me so nervous that my stomach, I would just be, it would be terrible.

Speaker 1 This is why I love sitting down with people because when you think John Mayer,

Speaker 1 you can get any woman you want, right? In media land.

Speaker 3 You could get any man you wanted.

Speaker 1 Thanks, John.

Speaker 3 I was saying being a famous guy is like being a hot girl.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's so interesting.

Speaker 3 Being a famous guy is like being a hot girl.

Speaker 1 Okay, well, let me bring up my next question, okay?

Speaker 1 People have been obsessed with who you've dated in your career. And if you're going through like the tabloids and everything,

Speaker 1 it's like John Mayer is the it guy, right? And recently you joked that you're America's ex-boyfriend.

Speaker 1 Why did America break up with you?

Speaker 3 That's my way of taking some of what I think is the air out of a, of a, you know, that's like elephant hunting in the room.

Speaker 1 I like the statement.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, that's how they see it.

Speaker 3 Bottom line, I'm one guy living one life. I don't need...

Speaker 3 300 million people in my life to agree that I'm an okay person. Most people, until the dawn of the internet, needed about eight.

Speaker 3 I've got multiples of eight, which makes me a very happy and lucky human being. I only need to meet one more person that I want to spend the rest of my life with.

Speaker 3 So I do not need to have this worldwide consensus that I'm an okay guy.

Speaker 1 What is your type? Right? Hot, successful, makes more money than you.

Speaker 3 That's really funny. Well, I mean,

Speaker 3 every relationship I've ever been in

Speaker 3 was

Speaker 3 devoted to the idea that this could go the distance.

Speaker 3 My entire life, today included, if you told me that I could have a great two months with someone, but it would end on the first day of the third month, I would not be interested.

Speaker 3 I have always sought potential for long-term relationship.

Speaker 3 I know what my mistakes were looking back. Not worth talking about.

Speaker 3 As long as you do the accounting, as long as you do your homework as a human being as you stand in the shower and you waste a little water and you go, Yeah,

Speaker 3 I really meant well, but I did do that. Or, yeah, they meant well, but they did do that.
And you go, wouldn't do that again.

Speaker 3 I would approach that a different way, maybe even from the beginning, maybe even from day one, seeing them across the room, who knows.

Speaker 3 As long as you're aware of what those things are and how you can apply that to the next relationship,

Speaker 3 I don't see a problem with any past relationships ending badly. I agree.
I just don't.

Speaker 3 Mine are different because they are

Speaker 3 well known.

Speaker 3 And I have not had a relationship in a lot of years. And it's funny how I think I started to notice like people would look at pictures of hot dudes on the internet and be like, I love this guy.

Speaker 3 And I'd be like, that picture's from 2002.

Speaker 3 You know what I mean? And

Speaker 3 it helps me understand that we tend to hold on to the part of someone's history that

Speaker 3 sort of revealed itself the most or was the brightest or the most easy to visualize. And so I still, look, I'm still in a lot of people's minds, in a good way, doing something I'm not doing anymore.

Speaker 3 Whether they're attached to a record or a tour I was on, they still want to share YouTube videos of a tour I did in 2014 or whatever. And

Speaker 3 there are still people.

Speaker 2 who go, oh yeah,

Speaker 3 he's the man whore or whatever, you know. But it's not on each and every person to update their knowledge of me every year.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 But it's like you haven't updated your Facebook status. There you go.
So everyone's looking at you like 2009.

Speaker 3 That's actually a brilliant observation. It's like the world creates my Facebook status.

Speaker 3 So here's why that's okay.

Speaker 3 If somebody gets you a little bit wrong, if you said something and someone recounts it and they get one word wrong and it makes something sweet sound not sweet, you're going to jump out and go, that is not what I said.

Speaker 3 Here's how I said it. You're gonna fine-tune that thing that you're being misunderstood for.

Speaker 3 There comes a point where if you're so misunderstood, it's almost like they're thinking about a different person.

Speaker 3 So the me that most people who don't know me are thinking about is so far away from me that I don't actually feel

Speaker 3 I don't actually

Speaker 3 feel like disrupted in any way by it. They're talking about a character or a thing that's been like an artifact, right? Like this one little glitch that sort of grew and became this other thing.

Speaker 3 I don't feel the need, and I hope you don't think this is like me going like, let me set the record straight.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, I'm into it.

Speaker 1 You know, you're just taking us through your psyche.

Speaker 2 Yeah, being, being,

Speaker 2 being

Speaker 3 misunderstood at this age is nowhere near as painful as it was being misunderstood in my 20s. And a lot of the shit that I did in my 20s was an attempt to reset the misunderstanding.

Speaker 3 And I made it worse. Someone said to me years ago, you're trying to eat the monster that's trying to eat you.

Speaker 3 I've never heard a more true thing said to me. And I look at other people right now and I go, Elon Musk, you're trying to eat the monster that's trying to eat you.

Speaker 3 I see it and I have grace for other people trying to do it. We haven't learned that retreat.
is an option. Retreat is an option.

Speaker 3 I don't know where this idea of stubborn fight to the death stuff came from. You lose everything.

Speaker 1 It's really interesting to hear you talk about it because what I think we can also get to, and you don't have to be famous to have this, being misunderstood.

Speaker 1 There is something inside of all of us at one point when you start to feel that. It's a really exhausting, scary feeling, and you really want to fight to correct everything.

Speaker 1 If there's a rumor about you in high school,

Speaker 1 if something happens at your job and people see you the certain way, you start to spiral.

Speaker 1 And then there's that moment where all of a sudden, after so much fighting, so much clawing, someone's trying to eat them all, right? Yep.

Speaker 1 You're like at peace with like, I don't give a fuck because you're good with yourself.

Speaker 3 Your reality is stronger than their ability to distort it.

Speaker 3 And at first, when it's not, it's one of the most sickening, frightening, painful things to have your reality distorted.

Speaker 3 And if you're smart, theoretically, you start coming up with a plan to engineer how to undistort the reality that's been distorted.

Speaker 3 And that's the beginning of the failure, because your behavior stops being natural and starts being what I did. If you're going to distort me,

Speaker 3 I'm going to distort me.

Speaker 3 I lost myself in that. The idea of I'm going to be more like you think I am as a way to somehow phase cancel what it is.

Speaker 3 As if playing into it would make everyone in the world who shares my exact thinking go, oh, he can't be that.

Speaker 3 Because he's acting like that. He's in on it.
So that didn't work and that didn't work. And it was like,

Speaker 3 I look back sometimes and I go like, you could have retreated. And nobody knows how to retreat because the stakes are so high.
The stakes are so high. You've got half of the world going,

Speaker 3 you love it when you do that. And the other half of the world going, you're losing losing your mind and you go well I know one thing can't give up now and it's like but you could

Speaker 1 and six months from now you would be so happy that you did I feel especially with social media you're trying so hard to prove yourself on this platform that's fake to begin with and I really feel like it's helpful to talk through like there is an option to retreat and you don't have to post that photo to prove you were at that place.

Speaker 1 You don't have to post this photo and edit it so you look a certain way, even though you don't look like that way in person.

Speaker 1 Like there is just some extreme peace in allowing yourself to enjoy what's in front of you and the people that know you and care about you and your friends and your family.

Speaker 1 Like I've been subjected to it where I'm trying to prove that I'm not this girl and I'm not this girl.

Speaker 2 And then all of a sudden I'm like, I don't even know these people.

Speaker 2 What am I doing?

Speaker 3 And you're losing your center center point.

Speaker 3 And I also think that people need to go through that. A lot of times people think that the stuff that didn't go right in their life was a mistake.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I don't think it's a mistake because I don't think there's any other way around it. I don't even look at it like a problem.
It's like that's just the way it has to go.

Speaker 1 Have you ever been in love?

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Speaker 1 Have you ever been in love?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 You're currently single? Currently single.

Speaker 1 Looking back at past

Speaker 1 relationships, is there anything that you have looked for of

Speaker 1 something of like a theme of what you want to work on within yourself moving forward?

Speaker 3 That's a hot question.

Speaker 3 I don't know yet because I haven't gotten, I never really got to the part

Speaker 3 of relationship that was the smooth sailing part.

Speaker 3 I have a feeling when I do, I'm going to have a lot to work on,

Speaker 3 but I'll be excited to work on it because it won't be that incredibly fundamental stuff of like, how do we, how do we stay together? You know, like, I'm always

Speaker 3 supremely impressed by couples that I know who are are having a hard time, but haven't even considered breaking up. That's hot.
Like, that to me is the hottest.

Speaker 3 Someone complains about their girlfriend or their wife, and you're like,

Speaker 3 you start to allude to them wanting to go somewhere else. I'm like, what are you talking about? No, I'm not going anywhere else.
We're just having a hard time.

Speaker 3 And I have a feeling that

Speaker 3 I'm going to be ready to cop to a little bit of intellectual

Speaker 3 control issues.

Speaker 3 Only on an intellectual side. Like I can be,

Speaker 3 I can be, I'm trying to be a little more heart overhead,

Speaker 3 but I can be a little heady.

Speaker 3 And I think it's cool to say to someone, this is my thing. This is what I'm going to work on.
And I love the idea of sharing that with someone and them saying, you're doing it again.

Speaker 3 And you go, I'm doing it again. Sorry.

Speaker 1 What is your dating style? Like, and how has it evolved? Like, what are you like?

Speaker 3 I don't know. I don't date that much.
I look at it like this. Dating is no longer a codified activity for me.
It doesn't exist in any kind of

Speaker 3 it's not patterned anymore. I quit drinking like six years ago, so I don't drink anymore.
I don't have the liquid courage.

Speaker 1 How do you feel about that? How has that changed your dating life?

Speaker 3 You have to be honest. You have to express yourself.
You have to be really

Speaker 3 glaringly honest. Here's who I am.
Here's what I like. Here's what makes me nervous.
Here's what I reject as an idea in relationship. I don't know about,

Speaker 3 you know,

Speaker 3 you have to express your anxieties.

Speaker 3 You can't just walk over them by drinking. You have to be like, here's what I'm anxious about.
And when someone in life

Speaker 3 accommodates your anxiety, that's bonding.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 Kind of cutting past the surface level bullshit and being like, can we connect on a way that feels cozy and like we know each other past just like hey so like that's right where did you grow up first yeah where you you're done with giving the um the free trial yes there comes a moment where your free trial runs out how quickly will someone know that you're into them

Speaker 3 it takes me a while it takes me a while

Speaker 3 I think the way to my heart now as I get older is

Speaker 3 I don't know that I have like five-hour dates in me. I don't have

Speaker 3 these deep excursions at a table that go into

Speaker 3 like this sort of job interview vibe. I would rather have someone, I'll be honest with you, I've thought about this before.

Speaker 3 I would love someone to say, hey, I'm coming over to your house for an hour and a half. I'm bringing my laptop.
Just need the Wi-Fi code. I'll be on the couch.

Speaker 3 I'm not trying to take up all your space. I have a really good feeling about you.

Speaker 3 I don't want to do the thing where I start to make you feel claustrophobic because I really have a good feeling about you. Give me the Wi-Fi code.
I'll eat one of your yogurts.

Speaker 3 Talk to me when you want to talk to me. I'd be like, I wanted to do that.

Speaker 1 Do you know how many people are going to DM you and be like, John, can I have the Wi-Fi code? I'm going to just come over.

Speaker 3 Maybe I said that just for that. I mean, but I actually think more people would find love sooner if it was

Speaker 3 less intense exposure for shorter periods of time, but more frequently.

Speaker 1 Just settling down, freak you out.

Speaker 2 Nope.

Speaker 3 This is the part that always shocks people. They go, you don't want to get married.
I go, of course I want to get married. I'm just, you're not going to see me go on a

Speaker 3 battery of dates with different people. I am a pocket listing.
I'm not really on, what is it, the MLS? All the heavy lifting is done.

Speaker 3 in my learning what I need to learn. It's just in terms of entering in a relationship.

Speaker 3 I can't wait for someone to be mad at me because I said that I would take the dry cleaning in and they were going to until I said I would, but then I didn't.

Speaker 3 And if you're going to tell me that you're going to take the dry cleaning, you have to do that because

Speaker 3 I would love that. I would love that because that would suggest that we're into something deep, meaningful, and secure.

Speaker 1 It goes back to what you said, your friends. You're like, oh, okay, so you're going to leave?

Speaker 2 And they're like, fuck no. Like, we're in this.

Speaker 3 Nothing's hotter to me than conflict resolution. Conflict resolution, I am horny for conflict resolution.
In the middle of an argument, we're having an argument. And I go, wait,

Speaker 3 I do do that.

Speaker 3 I did do that.

Speaker 3 I'm sorry. You're right.
I didn't. Nope, you're right.
I didn't get it. I do do that.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry. What's something that is currently keeping you up at night?

Speaker 3 What's something that is currently keeping me up at night?

Speaker 3 Metaphorically keeping me up at night.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Whether I should put out a whole record

Speaker 3 as my next release or song at a time.

Speaker 3 Can't tell. Put a record out, you get a week.
Comes and goes. Put a song at a time out

Speaker 3 and you get repeated

Speaker 3 shots, repeated looks at the ball.

Speaker 2 So I would. But I'd sleep pretty.
What's that?

Speaker 1 So why wouldn't you do that?

Speaker 3 I think I'd probably put a song at a timeout. I think.

Speaker 2 I feel like that's so funny.

Speaker 3 I think song at a time is right for this next record.

Speaker 1 Like, I would love a record personally, so I can just binge it, like a little Netflix moment. But I get what you're saying is like you get to kind of.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I'm not on a label anymore, and so that kind of keeps me up at night. That the next thing I do would seem to be,

Speaker 3 would seem to be I hope it was small enough that a camera couldn't catch it you literally go I'm not with a label anymore oh yeah yeah yeah that was badly timed that was badly timed

Speaker 2 I'm not with the label anymore

Speaker 3 can I also get a nail file so I could can I get a nail file say I'm not with the label anymore

Speaker 3 no sorry I'm deeply concerned about um anything being on this dark sweater oh looking good thank you um

Speaker 3 Not being on a label feels a little bit like the next thing I do, I have to prove myself.

Speaker 1 Can you explain,

Speaker 1 how is your writing going? Like, you write everything.

Speaker 3 I write everything.

Speaker 3 I mean, that part's really fun looking back on it to have 100% ownership of the songs I've written. But it's hard.
I mean, it's hugely time-consuming. Yeah.
Hugely time-consuming.

Speaker 3 And as you get older, time gets more valuable, which makes this

Speaker 3 deep diving that I do feel a little harder because

Speaker 3 no matter how old you get, this stuff still takes a year to write. Yeah.
You know, when you're one guy and you want to sound like you're five guys, you've got to be

Speaker 3 yourself five different ways and you can't do that all in one day. So the way you make music that sounds really complex is to hit it repeatedly on different days with different mindsets

Speaker 3 Which takes a very long time very long time.

Speaker 3 You write a whole song and you'll go, oh, I only needed that one verse, which is actually the chorus to this thing and that dies and then this moves over to here.

Speaker 3 And I would never do it any other way. I'd rather not put a record out than fall off in that way.

Speaker 1 And when you're saying this, like,

Speaker 1 you go to a recording studio?

Speaker 3 I go to a recording studio every day, 9 to 5.

Speaker 3 I have a job. Without it, I would fall apart.

Speaker 1 How many people are in that studio with you?

Speaker 3 One or two. Wow.
It's just me and an engineer and an assistant sometimes. Guitar tech comes in and out.

Speaker 3 And I go home, I think about what I did that day, how I can make it better. I'm always writing.
I bring a new thing in. Is this a thing?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 3 Is this a thing? Yes.

Speaker 3 Actually, no. Is this a thing? Yes.
Actually, hell yes. They're all different

Speaker 3 experiences. And when you win,

Speaker 3 you go home feeling like a god.

Speaker 3 Did anyone see what I just brought to life today? I cannot believe I still have it. I still have it.
This is incredible. This is incredible.
And then you have to go write another one.

Speaker 3 You go write another one and you're stuck in the same slog that every other song was. And you go, I'm garbage.
I don't have it anymore. I'm out.
I'm done. And you'll find another one.

Speaker 3 I'm on top of the world. Sometimes I'll write a song and it'll be really good.
And I'll go, just don't write another one for two or three days.

Speaker 3 Just relax because you're going to only be as happy as the last thing that frustrated you. Right.
You know?

Speaker 1 What does it feel like to be on stage performing in front of thousands and thousands of people?

Speaker 3 It's its own dimension. It's its own dimension.
I will go on record as saying

Speaker 3 I'm really different than most musicians in that I don't.

Speaker 3 And I'm going to have to finish this thought because it's going to sound a little scary if I don't. I don't feed off the energy of the crowd.
It is not a drug to me.

Speaker 3 You hear people say when the lights go down, you hear that noise, it comes in me like a drug. And I know that's how most people feel.
That's not how I feel.

Speaker 3 Every night before I go on stage, I go,

Speaker 2 okay,

Speaker 2 all right, here we go.

Speaker 3 Because I'm a little nervous to do that. Not that I don't think I'm going to be any good at it, but just the act of it is foreign.
And then I'll get on stage.

Speaker 2 Okay, all right.

Speaker 3 And then somewhere in the middle of the first song, I'm gone. I'm gone, having the time of my life.
The one thing people don't understand about that job,

Speaker 3 the entire time I'm up there, I am worried that they're not having as good a time as I could give them.

Speaker 3 Not worried to the point where it's unpleasant, but it is a constant consideration.

Speaker 2 Do they want this song?

Speaker 3 Or do they want a different song? Are they waiting for this song to be over? Or do they want another song?

Speaker 3 Am I playing like if I had to make a set list right now, I'd hate it because i have so much music from so many different areas of music that i don't know what anybody's exactly wants so i have to start writing a set list that would disappoint people equally and satisfy them equally and so i only want people to go that was great i only want them to be happy so i spend a lot of time while i'm playing going like uh do they want this one

Speaker 3 And the answer is always, yeah, man, they want those songs. But while I'm playing, it's a very strange mix of like hyper confidence and like the person I really am which is like I hope you like

Speaker 3 as I'm like ascending through through through the cosmos playing guitar I'm like

Speaker 1 I don't know if you like this one or not but I hope you do it is the holidays this is a holiday special I've never done this before are you a New Year's resolution kind of guy

Speaker 3 vaguely I don't um I also think like I've done well enough in my life that I don't have to like over haul everything as I as I go through.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I'm a New Year's resolution guy.

Speaker 3 Are you asking me what that might be?

Speaker 2 Do you have one?

Speaker 1 No, not yet. I'm going to come up with that on vacation.

Speaker 3 This is part maybe of the New Year's Resolution, which is to just

Speaker 3 do things that are a little uncharacteristic, what you find uncharacteristic every once in a while. And so this is really me going, like, okay, this is out of character, and that's okay.

Speaker 3 I know it's out of character. It's going to be okay.
If I say a thing that the news cycle picks up and gives me a headache for two or three days, I know I'm going to be okay.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 there might actually be something that exists that I didn't see coming that's really nice for people to go, oh, I never really heard him talk in long form, you know?

Speaker 3 So.

Speaker 1 We're kicking off your New Year's resolution with you coming on Caller Daddy. Yeah.
Okay, you're going to kill me. Okay.

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 1 begged you to wrestle this.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 I begged John.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I know there's a guitar here on the road.

Speaker 1 To bring his guitar. Yes.
More because,

Speaker 1 you know, I love the daddy gang. Everyone listening, watching, I love you.
Selfishly, I need you to play just a couple things.

Speaker 3 I get it.

Speaker 3 You want to watch me do the thing I just talked about for an hour? Yes. Okay.

Speaker 1 Get the guitar. Let's go.
Here we go.

Speaker 1 How do it feel? Let me hear how you sound.

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Speaker 2 Okay.

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Speaker 1 And that is why BetterHelp is encouraging you to rewrite your traditions this season by making time for you, Daddy Gang.

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Speaker 1 Therapy can be one of those new traditions too. BetterHelp gives you space to pause, reflect, and feel more grounded.
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Speaker 2 It's not a silly little moment.

Speaker 2 It's not the storm before the calm.

Speaker 2 This is the deep and dying breath of

Speaker 2 this love that we've been working on and on.

Speaker 2 Can't seem to hold you like a water water.

Speaker 2 So I can hold you in my arms.

Speaker 2 Nobody's gonna come to save us.

Speaker 2 We put too many false alarms. We're going

Speaker 2 down,

Speaker 2 and you can see it too.

Speaker 2 We're going

Speaker 2 down,

Speaker 2 and you know that we're doomed, my dear. We're slow dancing in a burning moon.

Speaker 2 I was the the one you always dreamed of

Speaker 2 You were the one I tried to draw

Speaker 2 How dare you say it's nothing to me Baby, you're the only light I ever saw

Speaker 2 I made the most of all the sadness You know you'd be a bitch because you can

Speaker 2 You try to hit me just to hurt me So you leave me feeling dirty cause you can't understand

Speaker 2 We're going down

Speaker 2 you can see it soon

Speaker 2 we're going down

Speaker 2 and you know that we're doing

Speaker 2 my dear we're slow dancing in a burning room

Speaker 2 Oh, go cry about it. Why don't you

Speaker 2 go cry about it? Why don't you? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, go

Speaker 2 cry about it. Go cry about it.
Go cry about it. Now

Speaker 2 my dear, we're slow dancing and burning. room.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, no, no, no, in a burning room.

Speaker 2 Don't you think we oughta know by now?

Speaker 2 Don't you think we should have learned somehow?

Speaker 2 Don't you think we oughta know by now, by now? Don't you think we should have learned somehow?

Speaker 2 I don't wanna burn,

Speaker 2 I don't wanna burn and burn and burn and burn and down.

Speaker 2 dear, we

Speaker 2 were slow dancing in a burn and

Speaker 1 wow. I have no words.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 3 It's not like there's like this guitar solo stuff that I do in the song, but on an acoustic, I just have to be like.

Speaker 1 No, it's fine.

Speaker 1 Wait, can you see that line, Georgia, Lisa?

Speaker 2 I am driving up 85 in the kind of morning that lasts all afternoon

Speaker 2 I'm just stuck inside the gloom.

Speaker 3 Give me an

Speaker 3 hour.

Speaker 2 I think I've heard it.

Speaker 3 There goes that.

Speaker 3 Who says I can't get stone?

Speaker 2 Turn off the lights and the telephone. Me and Matt has alone.

Speaker 3 Who says I can't get stone?

Speaker 2 Who says I can't take time? Meet all the girls in the county line? Wait on fate to send this sign. Oh, I did it wrong.

Speaker 3 It's okay.

Speaker 2 Don't you see the cheat of having sex with a guitar?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Do you do this before you have sex with someone?

Speaker 2 No, I do it after sometimes.

Speaker 3 No, you should never play guitar to have sex with someone. But a little little naked guitar playing after is very memorable.

Speaker 3 With a little gut hanging over.

Speaker 3 Sitting on the end of the bed, a little gut hanging over. You know, it's nice.

Speaker 1 It's nice to see you. I don't think anyone is staring at your gut, John.

Speaker 3 I like the way people look when they fold all up, all weird when they sit up. No matter who you are, you look weird when you sit up, and it's cute.
You know what I mean? You look great right now.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you sit, you know, I have a shirt on it, but people, everyone, no matter who you are, you sit up, you're like,

Speaker 2 that's great. We're humans, we have skin.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and after you're all done, it would just look sort of like dopey in a cool way.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 So,

Speaker 3 yeah, this is actually when I came up with, um,

Speaker 3 I came up with, Who Says a Can't Kiss Stone? I think I was in bed, a little stoned on a bed, and it was after having some fun. And that's when an acoustic guitar is great.

Speaker 3 It's so lame to do it before.

Speaker 1 So you're telling me that a

Speaker 1 special someone got to watch you create a line. I think so.
In pro. Damn.
Can you sing daughters?

Speaker 3 Yes, I can sing daughters. And daughters, I think

Speaker 3 it might have been on this guitar. I wrote that in 2003.
I was in New Zealand or Australia, and I was in the shower when I came up with it and got out of the shower naked.

Speaker 3 and skipped the next thing I had to do, which was a radio interview. I was like, I can't do the radio interview.
I have to write this song.

Speaker 3 Because it was the cyclical, as soon as I broke, because, you know, it was like, fathers be good to your daughters

Speaker 2 daughters will love like you do you know that was interesting and then when I came up with the circle of girls become lovers who turn into mothers and then I came up with so mothers be good to your daughters too

Speaker 3 that whole swirl I was like, that's something. Like the geometry of that.

Speaker 1 It seems like a lot of your songwriting is happening when you're naked.

Speaker 3 Because a lot of things, yes, yes, in the shower, a lot. I want to put a microphone in the shower.

Speaker 3 But what I like about daughters is that for all the tracks people use for songs, and I love songs with a lot of tracks, but this is one of those songs where the whole song is on the guitar.

Speaker 3 This is the whole song of Daughter.

Speaker 2 That's the song.

Speaker 3 It's like pressing play, except for the shaker.

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 know a girl

Speaker 2 she puts the color inside of my world.

Speaker 2 But she's just like a maze where all of the walls are

Speaker 2 continually

Speaker 2 changed.

Speaker 2 And I've

Speaker 2 done

Speaker 2 all I can

Speaker 2 to stand on on the steps with my heart in my hands

Speaker 2 Now I'm

Speaker 2 starting to see

Speaker 2 that maybe it's got nothing to do with me

Speaker 2 Fathers be good to your daughters

Speaker 2 Daughters will love like you do

Speaker 2 Girls become lovers

Speaker 2 who turn into mothers.

Speaker 2 So mothers be good to your daughters to you.

Speaker 3 Now the thing that people got wrong about that song was that I'm not really talking too far. I'm not a 24-year-old guy going like, hey, older man, it was...

Speaker 3 It's about the frustration of wanting to have a relationship with someone who can't because of upbringing. So if you've ever met someone, you're like, oh,

Speaker 3 I can't fix this particular part of your operating system. And then you're so desperate because you wish you could have that person that it really is a leap of logic to say,

Speaker 3 you're so upset that you're going like, stop. You know what I'm saying? Like, I wanted this girl so badly to be...

Speaker 3 to be able to receive my love. Whose ass do I have to kick?

Speaker 3 And I think it got read, that's what happens when you work metaphorically, is people misunderstand it a lot. And so I think people thought that I was just like, well, I'm 24.

Speaker 3 Let me tell dads how to raise their daughters. But it's like a big, like, first dance wedding song.
And I think it works both ways. And as I get older, it works a little easier as both ways.

Speaker 3 I just didn't think a 24, it didn't make sense to some people at a 24.

Speaker 1 Now, I didn't get that, obviously. And now I completely get it.

Speaker 1 Where it's like, oh, you're kind of being like, hey, I love this girl so much, but she's a little fucked up because her dad did it or the mom.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's this idea that

Speaker 3 it's a little selfish, you know. Yeah.
Like, hey, I kind of

Speaker 3 wanted to love this person, asshole. Right.
You know, it doesn't make it, it's emotional. It's like, it sounds logical, but it's mostly emotional.

Speaker 1 What is the one? Okay, I'm going to forget the name because it's not.

Speaker 3 No, no, give me keywords, it's fine.

Speaker 1 Not broken heart, but it's like not dancing with a broken heart.

Speaker 2 Dreaming with a broken heart. Dreaming with a broken heart.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Such a good one.

Speaker 3 It's on the piano, but

Speaker 3 it's weird to do on the guitar.

Speaker 1 Sounds exactly the same.

Speaker 3 It's up there, but it's like

Speaker 2 when you're dreaming with a broken heart.

Speaker 3 It's like I have to really sing it.

Speaker 2 The waking up is the hardest part.

Speaker 3 I figured out how to sing it now.

Speaker 2 You roll out of bed and down onto your knees.

Speaker 2 and for a moment, you can hardly breathe.

Speaker 2 Wondering, was

Speaker 2 she really

Speaker 2 here?

Speaker 2 Is she standing in my room?

Speaker 2 No, she's not here,

Speaker 2 cause she's gone, gone, gone, gone, gone.

Speaker 2 When you're dreaming with a broken heart,

Speaker 2 the giving up is the hardest part.

Speaker 3 Isn't that what it is? I think so.

Speaker 2 She takes you in with her crying eyes.

Speaker 3 Is that giving? I don't remember.

Speaker 2 And all at once, you start to.

Speaker 2 Is that the same lyrics as the.

Speaker 1 I don't know, but I don't know. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 All at once, you start to say goodbye.

Speaker 2 Wondering, would you stay

Speaker 2 my love?

Speaker 2 And will you

Speaker 2 wake up by my side?

Speaker 2 No, she won't, cause she's gone, gone, gone, gone.

Speaker 3 And it's like.

Speaker 3 How about being old enough now that I can't remember some of those songs?

Speaker 1 Picturing myself driving home from a break. I'm like,

Speaker 1 I'm like, John.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 2 Do I have to fall asleep with roses in my hand?

Speaker 3 That's right.

Speaker 2 Do I have to fall asleep with roses in my hand?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Then it's a way up.

Speaker 2 Do I have to fall asleep with roses in my roses in my hand

Speaker 2 and would you get them if I did

Speaker 2 No, you won't

Speaker 2 Because you're gone gone gone gone gone

Speaker 3 Right, then it goes just the verse one more time.

Speaker 2 When you're dreaming with a broken heart,

Speaker 2 the waking up is the hardest part.

Speaker 2 I haven't played a song in a while.

Speaker 1 That song got me through

Speaker 1 so much heartbreak.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I did.

Speaker 3 I woke up one day. I was making continuum.
I woke up and I had had a dream about someone

Speaker 3 and I had a crush on them the whole rest of the day because I had had a dream about them.

Speaker 3 Do you still have dreams where you wake up and you loved someone and now you have a crush and you're all emotional?

Speaker 2 Yeah, you're thinking about them.

Speaker 3 It's the best feeling in the world as you get older.

Speaker 3 But I went to the studio and they were working on something else and I went and sat in this big reverb chamber and closed the door and I was like, I've got to work on this song. And that's all about

Speaker 3 the pain of having a dream about someone that you don't know but have a crush on or that you know, and have a crush on. For me, I didn't really know this person, but just had a crush on them.

Speaker 3 I'll never say who.

Speaker 3 Because it's random, it's very random. It's not,

Speaker 1 yeah, waking up is the hardest part.

Speaker 2 Wow, yeah, because you're like, oh,

Speaker 1 John, I want to,

Speaker 1 I'm going to speak for the masses that you just made a lot of people's holidays. Oh, cool.
It's truly like it's so fucking cool to see. Uh-huh.
Oh, I mean,

Speaker 2 Keep talking.

Speaker 1 I,

Speaker 1 yeah, this is a good way to end the show. I'm really happy that you came on the show.

Speaker 1 We got deep. We had fun.

Speaker 1 We're friends now, which is fun.

Speaker 1 I have a new friend. Thank you for sharing your location with me.
Kazzi was like, he does that. Yeah, I'm excited.

Speaker 1 No, you brought out a side of yourself that I really appreciate you sharing because it is very cool to see someone that is so huge in their own right, but to get to sit with you and hear just a little bit of the personal side of you makes this even cooler.

Speaker 3 Thank you. Thank you for

Speaker 3 being kind to me, good to me, and making me feel comfortable. I'm now a fan of the show.

Speaker 3 I don't know if there's an initiation into the daddy gang, but I will do whatever it takes.

Speaker 1 I think you have to look into the camera and just say, hi, daddy gang.

Speaker 3 Hi, daddy gang. Woo!

Speaker 1 John Mayer, thank you so much for coming on Caller Daddy. Thank you for having me.
It was a pleasure. It was so much fun.

Speaker 2 Have yourself

Speaker 2 a merry little Christmas.

Speaker 2 Let your heart be light

Speaker 2 from now on.

Speaker 2 Our troubles will be out of sight.

Speaker 2 And have yourself

Speaker 2 a merry

Speaker 2 little Christmas night

Speaker 2 fucking fire.

Speaker 2 Thank you very much.

Speaker 3 You might have to edit that one. I didn't nail that bridge.

Speaker 1 Call Her Daddy is brought to you by T-Mobile. Okay,

Speaker 1 tell me why the holidays are so much better when you don't even have to leave the house. Like a blanket, wine, and something to watch, I'm in always.

Speaker 1 And as soon as November first hits, I'm turning on my favorite holiday movie without a doubt. Daddy Gang, you already know the one.

Speaker 1 She trades her LA house for this cute English cottage and meets the hottest guy who just happens to be single. And during these movie marathons, snacks are covered with perks that truly deliver.

Speaker 1 Honestly, the benefits with T-Mobile just keep adding up. The more we use it, the more we get out of it.
And this holiday, you won't believe all that you'll get when you're with T-Mobile.

Speaker 1 I never have to worry about what to stream because my magenta status plan has me covered while I'm finding my next favorite rom-com on Netflix.

Speaker 1 They even have discount tickets for some of my favorite shows. So if I do leave the couch, it's worth it.
T-Mobile keeps me covered wherever I am for whatever I need.

Speaker 1 Check it out at t-mobile.com slash magentastatus. Qualifying plan required for streaming benefits terms apply.
Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Tinder.

Speaker 1 Okay, let's chat about our flirty friends over at Tinder.

Speaker 1 Tinder just launched a new photo prompt feature that is changing the crush game and making it easier for you to be your authentic self, which we love. Next, you're already sending photos.

Speaker 1 You now have the option to include a prompt like my villain origin story or POV, you just met me, be silly, be deep, be the mysterious, cool person who occasionally has bangs, whatever you want to do, it's your journey.

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Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Crime Junkie. All right, Daddy Gang.

Speaker 1 If you need to find your true crime obsession, you've got to check out Crime Junkie. Every week hosts Ashley Flowers and Britt Praywatt.

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Speaker 1 It's one of those shows you'll be texting your friends about five minutes in to listen along so you can debrief. So, when you're done here, go listen to Crime Junkie.

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