#413 Jevon Wooden: From the Military to Mindset Mastery — Part One

To you, my darling.

No, to you.

The roses were living the dream.

More champagne for me, Pete.

Until it all came crashing down.

He got fired by it.

From the director of Meet the Parents.

You're a failure.

Women don't like that.

If you need a shoulder or an inner thigh to lean on.

On August 29th.

I just want the house.

We want everything.

Wow.

Stop.

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And see the roses.

These people.

The roses.

Rated R.

Under 17, not a minute without parent.

In theaters everywhere, August 29th.

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Hi, everyone.

Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer.

I'm Vince Chen,

your ambitious human host.

Our show

is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Today's guest is Javon Wooden,

Army veteran, leadership coach, and someone whose story grabs you from the very first moment.

At 17,

he was facing prison time.

A few years later, he was leading soldiers in combat.

In this two-part series, Javand shares how trauma shaped his purpose, how empathy became his strategy.

And why he now helps leaders build emotional intelligence like their careers depend on it.

Because they do.

Let's jump in.

Good morning, Javon.

Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

I'm glad Chris Hare, the other guest from last year, who introduced you to me, is my honor to host you on my show.

Hey, good morning, Vince.

I'm so honored to be on the Chief Change Officer podcast.

Likewise, I'm so happy that Chris introduced us.

And yeah, he's just an awesome person.

And I'm looking forward to just meeting you and having this conversation and adding values for the audience.

Sure.

Last time we spoke, you shared a lot of really meaningful stories about your journey.

Before we dive deeper today, let's start with a quick intro.

Tell the audience a bit about yourself, not just what you do now, but also some highlights from your past.

I think your transitions and experiences are key to understanding the insights we're about to explore.

Absolutely.

I'd like to start that I was born and raised in Rochester, New York.

For the audience, at that time, we were in the United States, like the third most impoverished city per capita.

So we didn't have a lot of money.

I actually grew up in a household where my mom was white number two, right?

So we had to deal with that with her husband bouncing back and forth between homes.

So I had to really understand value and love as I grew older because back then I didn't know it.

I thought value was money.

I thought it meant that you had to have something material.

or else people just didn't care about you because that's quite frankly what was shown to me so i got into some trouble trying to become valuable, trying to get money at 17, right?

Got arrested, faced seven years in prison.

Now, we'll talk about that in a little bit more in depth, but that's important because it was one of the inflection points in my life where I sat in a jail cell awaiting trial, facing seven years in prison.

They charged me as an adult.

And I just sat there.

And that was the first time I actually realized the power of empathy.

My mother and my sister had visited me and my mom told me like, hey, I'm going to put up the house for you so you you can get a lawyer because I don't want you to get a public defender.

Because a public defender meant that I was probably going to serve that time because they didn't have time to look at the case.

They didn't know that I was a good kid, that I was just with the wrong crowd that night.

They didn't know anything about me.

So she wanted to make sure that I had a fair shake, that the court seen me for who I was.

So that night I went up and I prayed to God that he gave me another shot.

And he did.

Two weeks later, I was out and I was able to graduate high school and attempted to go to college.

Couldn't pay pay for that.

So I went to the military.

Military was another inflection point where I understood that I was so much more than I even knew.

I had leadership capabilities.

The fact that I actually was a genuine person and I was compassionate was my superpower.

As I started leading other soldiers, I was able to see that and tap into that and unlock their potential by pouring into them the same way that some people poured into me to get to that point.

And now I'm here in Houston, Texas.

I was in the cybersecurity space, tech space for about 10 years, did 12 years in the Army and just realized like that wasn't for me.

That wasn't the journey I had to take for the Army of getting hurt.

So my body, my mind, my emotions just couldn't handle any more of what comes with being in the Army, in the U.S.

Army.

Yeah, I'm here now.

I have this company called Bright Mind Consulting Group, where we focus on leveraging the power of emotional intelligence, which we'll get into how I got there as well.

to just help other leaders and organizations improve performance.

Earlier, you mentioned a time in your life when you were facing the risk of spending seven years in prison.

Can you walk us through what really happened?

Just be as honest as you feel comfortable.

Absolutely.

The big mistake was just being with the wrong people.

On that night, I got arrested for an assault and robbery charge.

So on that night, I ended up, I was supposed to go to the movies with someone I worked with at the grocery store.

That did not happen.

so we ended up meeting some of his friends and they wanted to joyride around and hop out on cars on people and just i don't know what they were thinking so i wake up i was like man don't take me home i'm going to sleep i'm not even going to entertain this so five minutes outside from my home cops pull up behind us and they're like hey y'all going in we going in for questions i'm like all right that's fine with me So I'm like, I had nothing to do with it.

But it turns out that it didn't matter that I had nothing to do with that moment because i was going down that path and i realized that later on you may not have been guilty on this one but you were going down that path right you were starting to deal drugs and do all that other stuff so that was i felt like that was my wake-up call to say okay this you're not guilty of this one but you're you were guilty of doing something that you shouldn't have been doing and this was the opportunity to catch me my wake-up call so to speak So like I said, I faced seven years.

The guy that I was with ended up, he was the only one that didn't sit in that jail cell because he said that we were the ones doing everything.

So that's what happened.

So folks, I ended up sitting in there for a few months.

And crazy enough, my friend, my best friend, he was telling everyone at high school, he was like, what happened to Javon?

He was like, oh, he's just sick.

So when I come back to school, they're like, oh, man, you're finally back.

You all right?

And I'm like, yeah, if you only knew what was really happening.

Right.

So I look back at that and I say, I always try to find the jewels in what we go through.

And that was my jewel was like, hey, that was just God catching me to say, hey, this is not the path you want to be on.

If you want to make another mistake like this, I'm not going to save you this time.

So get it right.

You told me that you grew up in poverty.

That was the reality of your family background.

I've always believed that who we are today, what we choose to do, and how we go about doing it, all of that is shaped by our past.

And it's not just about what we did wrong or right.

It's also about the environment we were raised in.

Things like our relationship with our parents and even how they related to each other.

So looking back,

how do you think the way you were raised played a role?

in the decisions you made, including the ones that led you down the wrong path?

Yeah.

For me, I think it gave me some intuition and unique intuition.

So I can apply a lot of the situations and circumstances that I've gone through.

One, it's provided me with resilience, right?

I'm able to, no matter what's going on, I can calm myself and put myself in a space where I can look at things and figure things out with clarity.

Because nothing is a surprise to me anymore.

I'm like, okay, this is happening.

Whatever.

Let's figure it out.

So that's one thing that has happened that has really been beneficial for me.

The second thing is I don't judge people, right?

Yes, we all have our biases, but I'm able to catch it when I'm doing that because I understand like people were looking at me like, oh man, you're nothing, you're worthless, whatever.

And at least I thought.

So I don't, I don't make it a point to catch myself when I'm looking to do that, whatever my bias is, when I see another person to say, you know what, let me give them a fair shake.

Let me ask them questions to get to know them a little better.

Let me understand why they've made the decisions they've made or whatever the case is.

And that bode well, that bodes well as a leader and as an entrepreneur.

The other piece is, I mentioned the aspect of love and looking to understand value.

I truly realize that value has nothing to do with material assets or material gain.

So I treat people with that, whether it's somebody that's the janitor or CEO, they all get that same respect from me.

And I'm proud of that.

And then the other piece is my work ethic.

So when I think about poverty, when I think about having to depend on someone else to feed me, to give me clothing, whatever the case is, I don't want that.

And I don't want that for anyone else.

So that's why it's very important for me to pour back into my community in Rochester, but also any community that's impoverished and underserved, underrepresented today.

So I do a lot of work, pro bono work in that space, coaching individuals, doing clothing drives, educational, go to prisons to do business pitch competitions.

So they understand the path of entrepreneurship that's open to them.

My dissertation, I'm doing my doctorate right now is on digital entrepreneurship and how it alleviates poverty in the urban United States.

So every, just about everything I do comes back to my experience to say, you know what, I know what it's like and I know we don't have to be there.

We don't have to stay there.

There are opportunities and I also know that representation matters because I didn't see anyone succeed from my neighborhood.

And that impacted me because when i started getting that success you get survivors remote and you have to be able to understand that so you have to go through the therapy and the coaching and all these other things to find what the root cause of that is and then find how you can turn that into a power and not something that can weigh you down

so your mother made the decision to come up with the money so you could hire a better private lawyer, someone who could really help you out of the situation.

And it worked.

You ended up spending just a few months in prison

and then you were set free and able to return to a normal life with no criminal record.

Is that right?

No, they gave me six months.

I was on probation for six months.

So if I had gotten into trouble, I would have had to do that.

But it got expunged.

So when I went to the military, they expunged it because I didn't, it wasn't a charge.

During those several months when you were locked up alone in such a rough environment, what were you thinking?

How were you feeling?

Looking back, can you recall the state of mind then?

Some people in that situation might blame others.

Others might decide to work harder.

Some even study for degree while in prison.

And then, there are those who come out angry, wanting revenge.

Everyone reacts differently.

And those reactions shape the choices they make and the path they take afterwards.

You chose to live better.

I'm curious, what was that turning point?

for you

what helped you rebound during that time

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So, how I felt initially was

I will say when I called my mother, it was probably like two in the morning.

Right when they finally took me to the cell, they allowed me to call her.

And I told her.

And I remember that like it was yesterday calling her and hearing her voice she sleep and i'm like hey mom i'm in jail she's i just hear her wake up like what what do i need to do do you need a lawyer blah blah blah and i remember her kicking into action and then i remember when she came to visit me so in this time it's probably like a few weeks a couple of weeks right she came to the sentencing i remember her being behind me and not the sentencing but when they take me in the courtroom and then they put it to recess or whatever so we could get the lawyer and all that other stuff.

And I remember seeing her, she looked so worn down.

I remember that visitation room.

You get the Browns in Monroe County, where I'm from in Rochester.

You have a brown jumpsuit and then it says property of Monroe County.

And I remember coming into that visitation room and you got to go through the strip search and all that other stuff.

And I was just like numb.

I was numb until I walked into the visitation room and I looked around and everyone looked like me.

And then we interact.

There's glass between us.

Right.

So I'm like, I'm looking at my mom.

She's worn.

I'm looking looking at my older sister.

She's worn down.

And I'm like, I cause that stress.

I cause that stress by being here.

And it just, it broke me down to my core.

That's, that's how I felt.

Initially, before that, yeah, I was upset at the guy that I went out with.

Man,

you got me into this, but you're not even in here.

But then I realized, like, what part do I play?

And that, the part that I played was everything.

It was on me.

So that's why after that visit and she told me she was going to pay for the lawyer and everything, I had to pray.

And it was the first time I prayed to God on my own volition, where because I grew up Muslim and we prayed five times a day, but I never really meant it.

I just was forced to do it.

And that was the first time I actually meant it.

Because to be frank, I felt like we were left out.

I'm like, how can we live like this?

Why would God do that to anybody?

And that was the moment he was like, hey, I'm here for you.

I'm here for you.

But you got to change, right?

You have to look at what you can do, be accountable for your actions and be kind.

So that's why now I've went through this journey of focusing on mindset and all those things, but I realized that emotional intelligence is really the key because you have the self aspect of emotional intelligence and then you have the social aspect of emotional intelligence.

So I feel like that holistic perspective was really key for me in recovering.

I didn't know what it was called back then for my mother and the judge later to be empathetic to me for the judge to say, hey, I know this isn't you.

I've looked at your record.

I looked at the fact that you were a good good student.

You're one of the top students in your class and all these other things.

So I know this isn't you.

I'm going to give you this next chance, right?

That was empathy.

He, that just could have said, yeah, no, next, you're going in.

You're going to serve this time, but he didn't.

So

that's how it changed me.

And then my father wasn't there either, like my biological father.

And now he's serving light for a triple murder in

Rochester, in upstate New York.

And all of that stuff, when I look back to it, as I said, it it sometimes it hits me like the emotions, the wave of emotions comes to me.

But I also realized like that's why it's so important for me to tell my story.

Because I tell my story and I'm vulnerable.

It allows other people to open up and share theirs and then step into the power that it is to say, you know what?

I'm not going to focus on what the negative people say, but I know that my story.

Only I can tell it the way I want people to know me for.

And then as I tell mine, that pours into someone else, and then someone else feels their power and their story.

And then they understand that it's not for you to be judged, but it's for you to be able to really step into being authentically you without having to worry about the recourse.

That moment was clearly a big wake-up call for you.

You got a second chance, a brand new life, really.

And then you chose to join the military.

military.

Why the military?

What made you decide to take that path at that point in your life?

Yeah, so the interesting story about how I got to the military is I was working two full-time jobs at the time.

And so I was working at a grocery store, doing like the cars, the cashier, all that stuff, cleaning the meat room, doing every job that they needed me to do, stocking shelves, you name it.

I did it.

And then I also worked at a hospital.

It's actually the largest employer at the time of this recording, University of Rochester Strong Memorial Hospital.

So I was working there.

I was environmental services, a fancy name for janitor at first.

And then I worked my way to materials processing who cleans the tools and sets up the cases so the doctors have what they need.

And then I work my way into being an anesthesia technician.

So here I am, an anesthesia technician.

And this guy.

who was there who was moonlighting.

He was actually a recruiter for the army.

So he noticed my transition because he saw me in the hall.

hall he's oh you got promoted congratulations so you know what you should come down to the to the recruiting station a monday now this was a saturday because i worked weekends there and i was like you know what you may be on to something

you might you may be on something because i'm tired of working these two jobs so wouldn't you know i go down there and every branch is in that recruiting station so you have the marines you have the air force you have the coast guard and you have the army so i go in there i check out each office so marines was like yeah we don't give bonuses.

We're all about serving honor.

I said, nope, I need my bonus.

So that's out.

I go to the Air Force and they was like, we only have these certain jobs that's going to be available because they're smaller subsets.

So they don't have as many roles.

So I go into the Army.

I take what they call the ASFAB.

It's your aptitude test to see what jobs you qualify for.

I take it.

They're like, oh, you qualify for anything.

So the top two jobs for me were military intelligence and IT.

And I said, military intelligence sounds great, but what the heck am I going to do with that that in the civilian world?

So

my recruiter, he was like, I'm going to just be honest.

You should do tech because tech, you never run out of it.

Everyone needs tech.

So I did tech.

And that was probably the best decision I could have made was to go into that recruiting station and listen to him and just

do what I could.

Now, I signed up for the reserves because I still wanted to do like my personal life.

I was like, I don't know if I want to commit fully to this.

But what they don't tell you about the reserves is you deploy, right?

a lot so i deployed three times as a reservist and

that was

that was such a change for me from culturally it's a culture shock because in the army you're seeing people i had never been outside of like my little bubble or other predominantly black areas right army i'm seeing everyone from everywhere you got people from wham you got people from Iowa, Nebraska, everywhere.

And that was awesome for me because I'm like, here I am talking to people I would have never met, right?

I would have never had to look to my left and my right and depend on these people for, to succeed.

And then as I moved up into the ranks as a non-commissioned officer to lead other people, you get this, this opportunity to really, they say, see what you're made of.

And it was the best thing that could have ever happened to me.

Because here it is, these soldiers who didn't believe in themselves.

you know that i don't know if you've ever heard the saying i don't know if it's a proverb or what but it talks about how the butterfly can't see its own beautiful wings.

So that's how I felt about these soldiers.

Here they are.

They're coming from areas like me, and they just didn't know how amazing they were.

And it really was because their prior leadership never poured into them.

So my ability to just really say, hey, I know that you're feeling low.

You're, you've gone through this.

You're doing this for your family, whatever the motivation is that has you here.

But I'm going to let you know that I'm going to take ownership of your success because that's what I feel like a great leader should do.

Take ownership of their success.

So I had one-on-one conversations with them and I was able to understand why they were there, right?

Whether it be they couldn't afford milk for their baby.

So they signed up so they can have some money, whatever it was.

And we rode with that.

And they gave me a little coin.

One of my, one of my groups of soldiers, they gave me a little coin.

And that's my favorite award to this day.

And that coin just said, hey, thank you for being an awesome leader.

That was all it said.

But that really, when I look back into my story, my journey, and all the changes that I've experienced, Bankcoin was the biggest change I ever made because I didn't know what being a leader was myself.

And I had to tap deep into and say, you know what, somebody believed in me.

The army believed that I could do this.

So I had to really step into that role and change the fact that that value that I talked about earlier.

I was valuable because I can connect with people.

I can empower people.

I can uplift people.

I can motivate people.

I can do all these things that are intangibles that we call soft skills that are really foundational.

I did it very well.

And that was the biggest change that led me to where I am now.

So you stayed in the army for over 10 years.

Is that right?

Yep.

Yep.

I was in there for 12 years.

And my last deployment was probably, not probably, it was the hardest thing.

because, and this is one of the reasons why I knew like my body couldn't handle it my mentally and emotionally and I just couldn't do it.

So I was in Afghanistan in 2016, 2017, and there was a suicide bombing that happened where I was stationed on Bagram Hairfield.

And the suicide bombing was on Veterans Day.

So Veterans Day traditionally has been a very hard time for me since then.

And we lost, I think we lost six or seven people and then 18 others at least got injured, got injured physically.

But of course, mentally and emotionally, those of us who survived or who wasn't harmed physically, that plays a toll on you.

And then I was a part of the remains cleanup team where that's what mentally really hit me hard because I'm like, I'm treating the bomber with the same respect that my friends and my comrades and my colleagues that he killed.

And that was another inflection point for me because when I got home from that deployment in 2017, I just was not the same.

And it hit me like six months later.

Here I am.

Like after that, I took some time to just like travel and get back into the space of civilian life.

and it just didn't work six months later i'd struggle severely with depression and the ptsd kept having the same nightmare over and over again since and at the end of that nightmare it was a red flash i just remember the red flash it was the detonation for the bot

and i had to go to therapy and the therapist once asked me she said what happens at the end I said I don't know it doesn't end once the flash happens I wake up and she's like I want you to see that as something that's saying that there's something unfinished in your life.

So she gave me this whole exercise to find what was unfinished.

And this ties back into my childhood because what was unfinished was my relationship with my father.

And I hadn't been in touch with him.

He actually got arrested while I was with him.

So that was we're trying to establish a relationship.

Swap team jumps out while we're at the gas station and they put me down on the ground.

I thought it was something I did, but it wasn't.

So it was him.

So, fast forward, I had to reestablish that relationship with my father.

And that nightmare stopped since then.

And what another change, my daughter was born on Veterans Day.

So it went from the worst day to the best day.

And that's just how things happen, right?

That's serendipitous moments that I really leaned into now with all the change and adversity that has gone through throughout my life.

That's where we'll leave it for today.

Javon's story from arrest to army to leadership is already powerful.

But in part two, we go deeper:

PDSD, fatherhood, executive coaching, and why emotional intelligence isn't optional for true leaders.

Trust me, you want to listen to this next chapter.

Thank you so much for joining us today.

If you like what you heard, don't forget to subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media.

I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host.

Until next time, take care.