#408 Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

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Hi everyone, welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer.

I'm Viz Chen,

your ambitious human host.

Our show

is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Today's guest is Jodi Silverman,

founder of the Moms Who Dare community,

and someone who knows what it's like to face a totally quiet house and wonder what comes next.

She built a print business, raised a family,

and then realized it was time to find something that led her up again.

In this two-part series,

We talk about letting go of old roles,

parenting when you are no longer the fixer,

and why your next chapter doesn't have to look like your last one.

Jodi's story is honest, warm, and refreshingly real.

Let's get into it.

So far, among the women you've connected with, what are some of the common challenges they face?

And with those challenges in mind, what kinds of solutions have you seen?

Either from the group

or ones you've helped them discover?

Yeah, the top issues that show up every time Women join the Facebook group, they have to answer that question actually.

Vince, they have to answer, what's your biggest challenge right now?

And what are you looking to gain by being part of this community?

The biggest ones are the feeling disconnected from their now adult, and I do with the quotes, adult children, because honestly, they're not adults at 18.

They're just not.

They're considerably well adults, but they're not.

Feeling disconnected.

And within the disconnection is wanting to be present in their life without being that helicopter parent.

The lack of feeling like they have a purpose they've lost their main purpose every day in their life and

finding new friendships in this it's a midlife chapter and beyond because this is the only time in a parent's life a mom and i'll talk about moms because it's really the mom's the mom's life where her children are not the conduits to her meeting other mom friends meaning There's no more play practice, no more basketball, there's no more soccer moms.

And that's where we tend to meet meet our mom friends.

So it's learning how to connect and be a parent to adult children without hovering,

finding and discovering their purpose.

What do they even want to do, need to do, like to do, because they put that on the back burner.

And then connection, friendship, finding that community, the friendships.

Those are the three.

And what's great about all three of those, so the parenting one, I literally, I actually have a specific technique.

And as far as parenting the adult children, let me back up.

One thing that can cover all three, that can help a mom navigate all three, the number one strategy is to shift your focus from them,

where it has been for all these years as a mom,

as a full-time one, back to you.

Back to you.

So permission to say, okay,

I get to focus on me.

I get to put myself at the top of the list now

and start to discover or rediscover or reconnect to those lost passions, those lost dreams.

So shifting the focus onto you will help you not be fill your time.

So you're not worried, constantly thinking about where are they?

What are they doing?

I'm going to text them.

The cell phone, which I'm holding up right now, this is a great tool and a dangerous tool.

Constantly connected.

So if you took, you have ability to contact your child 24-7.

That's not what this is for so the first thing to do is to recognize that you get to put yourself first and you must put yourself first it will help you with your relationship with your now adult child because you are now focused on yourself giving yourself them a little distance when you're focused on a new hobby a new business venture you can't be texting 24 7 to your children.

Yes.

And you don't want you to.

And you become more interesting to your adult children.

You have more conversation with them.

And yet, with that being said,

the number one parenting shift we all must make, and it really does,

you brought this earlier, Vince, about being 10, 11, 12, 13 years old.

The sooner that we can do this, we should be doing this throughout all of our parenting.

And I was not good at this until I discovered it, is going from the fixer to the coach with our children.

This process isn't easy.

Like you said, it's not like flipping a switch.

It's more like turning a dimmer.

The change happens gradually.

So it helps to prepare for it step by step, stage by stage.

Maybe that means adjusting small habits every day or every month.

That way, when the day actually comes,

when they really leave for college or move out, you're more ready for it.

I actually have a method for it.

We call it the DARE method.

We call it the DARE method, and it's deciding.

It's a simple, it's a decision, a decision that you understand.

I'm ready to focus on myself.

A decision that, okay, my kids, I'm doing what I did a great job.

They're out there doing what they do.

And by the way, Vince, you are never not a mom.

You're just,

your role as their mom is shifting and changing, but you are always their mom.

My 29 and 26 year olds still call me for advice.

They only know what they know in the moment.

So this whole thought process of I'm no longer a mom, I'm not needed.

No, you are always a mom and you are needed always just in a different capacity and in different ways.

So decide that you're ready now to accept this and focus on yourself.

That's the D.

The A is awaken.

Once you make a decision, when I made a decision and answering that question, am I fulfilled?

Is this what I want to be doing?

When I said no, that was a decision.

That was a decision.

And it awakened something within me.

So awaken to what's possible.

Awaken your heart again.

Awaken your mind again.

Awaken that spirit inside of you that always likes to try something new.

And then you get to go to the R, which is to reimagine, reimagine what could my life look and feel like?

Reimagine about the things that you used to like to do.

You know, go back and reconnect to, reconnect and reimagine.

And then the E is the daring.

That's the experiencing.

Allow yourself to experience these new things.

Create a list.

Like within the DA, the DARE method, you're going to create a list of the things you used to like doing.

What are things that look like fun to do?

And then you're going to just just slowly dare to experience these new things.

Maybe some are not so new.

You just haven't done them in 10, 15 years.

You have to take yourself through them.

You have to feel the loss.

Vince, you always have to feel your emotions.

We cannot just move through emotions and ignore them because they will come up.

It's a resilience thing.

It's how quickly can you understand the emotion you're feeling, what you're having, why you're having it.

And then once you can understand why you're feeling the way you're feeling, you can then say, okay, I'm ready to decide on what my next step will be.

How can I move forward or move through it?

The anti-nest experience isn't just something moms go through.

Dads feel it too.

So I'm curious, how did your husband handle it?

What was his reaction like?

How did he respond to the shift at home?

So I know for him,

Sam has a unique ability, Vince, to carpartmentalize events and things.

His mother, my mother-in-law, was very pragmatic.

Sam was a very pragmatic person.

With that said,

he was missing the kids.

When we dropped Ellie, our oldest, we knew, I knew the minute we dropped Ellie off of college that she would only be visiting home.

moving forward.

She would never be living permanently in our house again.

She would come home for the holidays, but I knew that there was no way Ellie was going to move back home.

And I remember when she graduated college, so Sam missed her.

Sam missed her.

Ellie was very big into basketball, and that was a very bonding thing for Sam and Ellie, basketball.

So he was going to miss her.

And then when Daniel left, he was, he missed both kids.

He missed both of them.

And yet my husband's personal feeling was, now I get to hang out with you again, Jody.

We get to do things we like to do, just the two of us.

And when we're with our kids, we can have fun again.

But he was really excited

to move through that with us.

Now, I know that there are dads, I've spoken to dads, that it hits really hard.

And yet, I'm going to make a very big generalization.

Most of the fathers I know, although they miss their kids,

it doesn't hit them as

what's the word I'm looking for, as deeply,

or not deeply that's not the right word as emotionally

and maybe it's because

most men don't give up their careers

I guess but I don't know maybe dads handle it differently they miss their children yet they seem to be handling it better they don't have that loss of purpose that a mom has because Now things are changing in the future generations.

You're seeing more dads.

You're seeing more families because of the financial issues in the world with daycare.

More families sit down and say, okay, who makes more sense to stay home, the mom or the dad?

Which parent should stay home?

So there are more

day-at-home dads, work-from-home dads, and more fathers since the pandemic are working remotely from home.

So are taking a much more active role in the day-to-day activity of their children.

So I'm curious to see as generations go on, My feeling for dads are that they miss their children and yet they don't have that feeling of disconnectness that moms have and they don't have the same loss of purpose.

They feel sad, but they're not into the level of a mom.

That's just been my experience.

I think in general, just speaking broadly, men tend to be less outwardly sentimental.

Part of that comes from how society has shaped us.

Across cultures, men are expected to be the strong ones, the calm ones.

I still remember being told as a kid, boys shouldn't cry.

While it was okay for girls, which doesn't make any sense, we're all human.

We have sentiments, we have feelings.

So I think for many fathers, even if they feel the sadness intrinsically, deeply, they may not show it.

Maybe they shed tears in private.

But that conditioning runs deep.

And it definitely shapes how they process things like the empty nest stage.

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I think it's valid.

I think it's valid.

Yes, we're making some generalizations here, and yet it is valid because society still

raises boys where to not feel their emotions the way girls feel them and it's wrong it's wrong because i do believe what makes us strong what makes us resilient is our ability to feel and sit with our difficult emotions that's what makes everybody i don't care who you are what gender you are how old you are, our ability to feel and sit and understand our emotions is what will eventually create a much more resilient world.

So, quick side story.

I was chatting with another guest recently.

His father and both his kids had left home.

We were not even talking about family at first, more about leadership and career stuff.

But somehow, this topic came up.

And what he shared was interesting.

He said, said, after the kids left, he and his wife decided not to just go back to us as a couple, but instead, they each returned to their individual selves.

They gave each other space, meaning living under the same roof, but doing the things they loved independently.

He said, over the past 20-something years, a lot of that got put aside for parenting.

Now,

they are picking it back up again.

And for them, it works.

Have you seen that happen in your own experience?

Either in your family or with others in your community?

And would you say, that's a good thing?

So what I have found is that some women share that when the children are removed from the equation, equation they're left looking at each other who are we who are we as a couple who are you when did you get could because the children have been everything in their world and there is a way it doesn't i think some people get scared that their marriage might fall apart when the kids leave it doesn't have it doesn't have to what i do agree with what that guest said is i strongly believe that you need common interests together in a way to do things together and you also need need your own interests and your own friends too.

My husband Sam and I have that.

We love being together.

We like just hanging out together.

We go out together.

We have couple friends.

We go out as couples.

And yet he has his golf.

I have my tennis.

He has lots of community through golf.

I have my moms who dare.

I plan events for just my moms.

It's very important to have a sense of togetherness and a sense of self.

It's very important to have both.

I believe that to have a successful, strong relationship, partnership, there has to be both of that

combined.

I will share.

Can I give one tip on this one?

Double post.

If you are a couple that's feeling disconnected with each other or from each other, my friend and a fellow coach who is brilliant at this, she came up with a great tip and I love it.

It's my favorite one.

It's called a day swap.

And you can do it with your adult children as well, Vince, to feel more connected.

So one person

in the relationship plans their ideal day.

What is our favorite thing to do?

You are invited to come along on their perfect day.

And then you swap and you do the other person.

What that allows you to do is it reminds you of what this other person who you love so much,

what lights them up?

Watching them enjoy and connects you back to what it is they really enjoy doing.

And it's a shared experience.

So a day swap with your adult children would be if they don't live at home anymore, you go visit them at college or you visit them wherever they live.

You'll plan a day and take me around to all your favorite spots.

You will feel reconnected to them.

So now when you talk on the phone and they talk about I'm standing in line getting my latte, mom, you know exactly where they are.

It ignites connection and it allows you to see that other person view a view through their eyes of what really lights them up.

It's good, but yes, I believe you need both of that.

I really like what you said.

Being together, but still being yourself.

You can have different interests.

Maybe you love ice cream and he doesn't like dessert.

That's fine.

And that day's walk idea is great.

You get to rediscover each other.

What they like,

what's changed.

Even something simple, like gift giving, becomes more thoughtful.

Because we all change over time.

If we do notice that in each other, that's when we start to feel disconnected.

Yeah, and it lets you...

Day swap allows each party in the day swap to feel seen,

heard,

understood,

appreciated.

And isn't that what we all really want?

We want to be seen and heard.

And it can't help but bring you closer because you abandon anything that you feel or think, and you're just there

to be with this person and witness what it is they truly enjoy doing.

So it's a wonderful dare to do.

Today, you've shared a lot of great insights from the importance of togetherness and self.

Two ideas like the day's walk and the deeper approach to identity change.

I really like that one.

Slowly refocusing on yourself over time so it doesn't feel like a sudden loss.

when your kids leave home.

You also reminded reminded us that being a mom never ends.

The role evolves from caretaker to advisor, but the connection remains.

And as you said, we don't need to be the best friends.

We guide, we let go, and we keep building a life of our own.

So if there's a parent listening right now,

maybe

still feeling down, stuck, or overwhelmed by the emptiness, what would you say to them?

What's one thing they can do to start moving forward again?

If somebody is really bad, like really dad and now, and I know the words depression, anxiety are thrown around very loosely in our world today, but if you are struggling to get up every day out of bed, find help.

Go find professional help always, because there are some people that it affects so deeply that they need help.

That's, I'll just say that out loud.

The first thing I would tell anybody to do is

make a decision and understand

that you are always their mom and that you are going to shift.

from the fixer of all things to being there as I love the coach or advisor.

I love the word advisor.

That you are ready to let them go.

They will call you and reach out when they need help and when they do you're an advisor you're going to help them you're not going to fix things

and then for yourself

start with a list start with a list write a list of everything that what are things i used to like doing before i was even like anybody's girlfriend wife husband boyfriend whatever it is partner what are things you used to like doing without judgment, no judgment, just like it's called a brain dump.

What did I used to like to ride my bike?

I used to like riding a bike.

I used to like hiking.

I used to like cooking, whatever it is, write a list.

What are things that

other people doing that when you see them doing, you're like, wow, that looks really fun.

That looks cool.

I think I could do that.

And it can be a hobby.

It can be a career.

And then once you make your list without judgment,

read through the list and tap into how you feel and start to dare

to experience the things on your list.

And here's what I'm going to say, Vince, because a lot of people don't.

They get stuck in this This is the taking action, the daring part.

They don't, because what if they fail?

What if they don't like it?

That's great.

If you don't like doing it, you could take it off your list.

I tried.

I don't like that anymore.

You might discover something else.

You make room.

If you try, say you registered for a class and you just failed miserably at learning a new language.

You wanted to learn how to speak Mandarin and you totally failed.

It's okay.

That's okay.

What did you learn from that?

Move on to the next thing.

So make a decision, make a list and just start small steps.

Daring doesn't have to be a whole career change.

It can be, it can be just little steps.

And if you have a side hustle or a hobby, maybe really look at that and ask yourself, how would this feel if I now put more time into my hobby?

Could I make it into a business?

How does that feel when I say that?

So make a list, little baby steps, and find somebody to step out with with you if you want.

And that's the end for our two-part series on Jodi Silverman.

Jodi's journey is a reminder that letting go of one identity isn't the end.

It's an opening.

Whether you are a parent partner or just someone trying to figure out what's next

her dare method is a good place to start

thank you so much for joining us today if you like what you heard don't forget subscribe to our show leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media.

I'm Vin Shen, your ambitious human host.

Until next time, take care.