#478: Do What Sets Your Soul ABLAZE with Kacia Ghetmiri, Podcaster, Speaker, & Entrepreneur

I do think it's really valuable for all of us to understand that no one stream of income is safe. Not being just a business owner with one product, program, or service, not being a W-2 owner, not network marketing, not insert anything.
And it's like, how can we diversify and start to give ourselves more streams of income so that we're safe? Should the economy change or should our circumstances or honestly, even our desires change? How can we set ourselves up more for for success? I'm on this journey with me each week. When you join me, we are going to chase down our goals, overcome adversity and set you up for a better tomorrow.
I'm ready for my closeup. Hi, and welcome back.
I'm so excited. Listen, strap in, get ready for the next 45 minutes.
Cause I'm going to tell you, you're going to be so hyped. Every time I'm around this woman, I'm hyped.
I'm going crazy. I'm so excited.
And you are going to feel the exact same way. So if your day has been a little flat, Ooh, that's about to change.
I'm so excited. And she's multiple times.
Very rarely do I have a guest on multiple times, multiple times guests on the show. So Keisha, not only is she a personal friend of mine, she's someone I freaking adore and love, but she's a high energy life enthusiast, a wife, and a new mama.
And I can't wait to get into all the transitions, all the changes. Her podcast, Empower Her, is one of the top rated personal growth podcasts with over 11 million downloads.
And they happened organically, which guys, listen, you can gamify and do a lot of different things and advertise, and you can force people to listen. This woman just had such an incredible product that helped people.
And she's so good and so high energy. People came to her.
She's also the co-host of the Get Investing podcast with her husband, Sina, which is all about helping people get started in real estate investing. Can't wait to get into that as well.
She's personally helped hundreds of women launch and grow, monetize their podcasts and strategically grow aligned businesses through programs and live events. With her husband, Sina, she's also built a $7 million real estate investment portfolio in the last two years.
She's all about pulling back the curtain to transparently share her journey in life and business to show what is possible for you too. So thank you for being here, guys.
Welcome to the show, Keisha. I'm so happy you're here.
Heather, I just adore you so much. I'm so excited to have this conversation and just it's going to be so juicy.
I can't even wait to dive into all the things. We were off air, guys, a minute ago and just talking and catching up at how much life has changed since we've last seen each other in real life, since we've last had each other on the podcast.
And I can't wait to get into it, but I love your story for so many different reasons, but let's go back to the beginning because one of the things that's so interesting about you is the level of success you've achieved at a very young age, things that took me, my gosh, 20 years longer than it took you. So I want to kind of get to like, how did you get the confidence to do these things? Like, how did you know to do these things? And like, why has it all worked out? Certainly seems like it's all worked out from afar watching you at such a young age.
How did you build it? I really feel like it's one of those things where you can connect the dots when you're looking backwards, you know, like this famous Steve Jobs quote, we're like sitting here with you today and just thinking about like both of our careers and businesses, it's like, would I never guess that one was gonna work out? And it's like, here you are. But truly like it all started when I did the thing that I thought that I was supposed to do.
For me, that was like college, climbed the corporate ladder, had the job that on paper made sense. I looked around and I was like, crap, this is not it.
Like I knew that it wasn't aligned, but the problem was, and I feel like a lot of people can resonate with this, where on paper, everything made sense. Where I was working at Google was my last corporate job.
I was making six figures at 23 years old. I had a lot of upward trajectory in my career and I didn't have a bad boss.
I didn't have an experience like you did, Heather, you know, in the corporate world. Everything made sense.
I liked my coworkers and stuff, but like there was this like gut feeling that was like, something is off. Like there's a different path for you and this is not it.
That's why you're ugly crying on your bathroom floor, feeling like something's wrong with you. It's because you're just on the wrong path.
So I started a business on the side way back then, 2014, it was in network marketing that took off really quickly because I did it in a way that was different than how everybody else was doing it. And I think this core belief that I've had for my entire business, and honestly, even in my life, is if something's not being represented the way you think it should, and it's kind of bugging you, it's probably because you're supposed to be the representation.
So that network marketing business was a lot of like stay-at-home moms building this business. And I was like, well, that's not me.
Maybe I can attract a bunch of people that are working corporate jobs. And like, they just want to have like a little side hustle because they want to dip their toe into entrepreneurship.
That turned into 4,000 people and speaking on massive stages and earning several million dollars. And then that gut feeling came back up again.
My husband, who was at NYU dental school at the time, we moved to San Diego. And I was like, I don't want to do this anymore.
But on paper, again, it made so much sense. When you're at the top of your game and you're getting a lot of like external validation, but you're also making a lot of money and you're making a lot of impact and you feel pretty good.
It seems confusing to know that you want something else. But I decided to start a podcast, my show Empower Her, which you were one of like the first 10 guests on that show.
You've been on it so many times, but like you were one of the, I think the first 10 to 15 guests on that show, which is so wild way back at the end of 2018. And again, I think people resonated with it and why it took off pretty quickly is because it was very transparent and open.
I didn't try to pretend like I knew what I was doing. I was kind of lost figuring out what was next for me career-wise and business-wise because I knew I wanted to make a pivot from that network marketing company.
So I was like, let me just pull back the curtain and share what's going on and figure out how to build confidence and have like authors on my show that wrote books about that and just like be really honest about my journey. And people just were like, this girl gets it.
It feels like she's my girlfriend. Turned into creating courses, helping podcasters, big events, retreats, and then eventually real estate investing too.
So a lot of pivots, but it's all been very intuitively just like doing it my way and just kind of drowning out the noise from people that are saying, this is the way you should do it, you know? Yeah, but so break down for us because I've been where you're saying, like it looks good on paper, but I didn't leave. I stayed because I was like, it looks good on paper.
It is good. Like stop complaining, Heather.
No, like I can remember not really being happy going to work in corporate and saying like something's off. I know something's wrong.
I know something's more. And then be like, no, no, no, stop.
Like focus. You have a great job.
Be grateful for what you have. I meant well with what I was saying, but I didn't have that knowledge or that intuition yet, or I didn't listen.
Like what's the difference? Yeah. So I always ask myself, like when I've been doing something for a long time, whether it's a pivot that I'm making in my current business from like offers, products, program services, whatever, I'm always asking myself, number one, like, have I done this long enough to know if I'm pivoting because I'm just bored of it or because something's more aligned for me, or if I'm just like sucking at it because I'm new at it.
For example, if you're starting something brand new and you're like, I know that I want to do something else. Like maybe I'll just get rid of this thing and start something new.
It's often because like you suck at the beginning of anything. So I've always like trying to take into consideration, like, have I done something long enough to know that it's not aligned for me? And I've gotten past the stage of like, I'm not very good at it.
Now I've put more reps in. So I got better at it and I can say, this is not aligned for me.
Um, and then in the actual corporate world, I honestly like have such a core belief that our days are numbered here and we don't know the count. so I just don't want to waste time.
I've had two friends die at age 30, one from ovarian cancer and one that fell out of a window, freak accident. My husband lost his dad in 2021.
So like the fragility of life is like so, so real. And we talk about this, but to me, I'm like, if I don't love it, if it's not making the impact that I want to make, if it doesn't feel aligned and if it's sucking my soul, then I like I'm moving on.
And I just believe in my ability to figure things out because I keep confidence and like building confidence as like the foundation of everything I'm doing next, you know? Oh my gosh. It's so, so good.
And we all need to think more like you because you're so right. And I don't think that's wild to have lost two friends at 30 is, you know, I'm 50 this year and I'll tell you, I've started seeing people in my sphere, not people that supers are close, but like people I went to high school with passing away.
And you're right. It really makes you pause and say like, were they living the life that they were meant to live? Like, I am curious about that stuff.
And because it relates back to you to really question yourself. Like, are you living to your fullest? Are you living the purpose that you were supposed to be here for? So thank you for sharing that.
Okay. So I want to get into what's interesting to me is clearly I have not made the right life choices thus far on partner.
Clearly you have. And I'm so interested in the way that you supported your husband.
You guys have an incredible relationship. We've been together for so long, how you supported him and getting him to transition or encouraging him to make a huge life transition, which ended up being such a blessing and a gift.
Yeah. So my husband is Persian.
So his parents are both first generation immigrants to the US. So from his perspective, he always said that like he felt this pressure to be like a doctor, a dentist, a lawyer, an engineer.
He chose dentist and he went through dental school. And as soon as he became a dentist, like I could tell right away that he was not excited about it.
And we kind of wrote it off to, you know, when you're not excited about something, it's often because you're not that good at it yet, right? Where it's like, it's so much more fun to do things that you're great at. So we kind of let him take the time to put in more reps and see if he, you know, as he got better and just got to like practice his skillset, if that was when it would feel more exciting.
But ultimately he knew that it wasn't aligned, but he wasn't ready to admit it yet. So we moved from San Diego to Austin for him to try out a different clinic.
And I had an online business, so I could kind of go anywhere. We moved to Austin.
He had like the perfect clinic that he was working at. He had great hours, great pay, great career trajectory.
And one day I got back from speaking on an event and I walked in and he was like, Keish, I'm pouring us a glass of wine. And like, we need to talk about something.
I was like, oh, okay. And he tells me I want to quit dentistry.
And I was like, hell yes. Like, please, please, please quit.
And honestly, the real reason was kind of like a couple parts. One was I just knew that he didn't like it.
And we have been together since we were 19 years old. We've been together for 16 years.
He's my favorite person on the planet. I just don't want him to, you know, not be excited about what he's doing in his life.
Number two, I don't want

to be married to someone who doesn't love what they're doing in their life because that massively

impacts me. And then I didn't want him to be an example to our future kids, which we didn't have

then of someone who wasn't excited and just would come home every single day, like womp, womp,

womp about his life. I'm like, that's not what I signed up for.
Also, because I know how smart and capable he is that anything he puts his mind to that he would be ridiculously successful at, he just needed the permission slip that like he needed to give it to himself. But because he had never stepped outside of this very linear path, like he almost needed an overly enthusiastic person saying like, let's go to just remind him that like he could do this.
He wanted to be a real estate investor and quit dentistry. So he quit.
Two weeks later, his dad gets cancer and we fly up to Seattle where we're from. And he spends the next 12 weeks by his side as he moved from like the hospital to hospice.
You know, only child, his parents were divorced. Like he was like the primary caretaker.
It was like jolting. He had already left dentistry two weeks before that and made that decision.
But I think it really stamped into like both of us the need that like you don't want to get to the end of your TBD amount of days here with coulda, woulda, shouldas wondering what would have happened. His dad had big plans of like retiring and then like traveling the world and doing all these things that he just didn't get to do because he died.
And like, that sounds again, so heavy, but it was like, so important for us to realize like he had made that decision on his own. And then once this happened to his dad, it was like, okay, like whatever I want to build, like whatever my dream is.
And for him, it was real estate investing. So he stumbled so much.
And I want to acknowledge this because one of the most difficult parts about being in a relationship with someone who is stepping into entrepreneurship when you've been the entrepreneur longer is I wanted to help him bypass some of the roadblocks, but the roadblocks and figuring out how to get through them are what helps you build up the confidence and also like feel proud of yourself. I was like robbing him of a lot of that.
Cause I'm like, no, you should be just be doing it this way. Do it this way.
Do it this way. Good intention.
But like really freaking annoying. He would say to me, he was like, Keisha, you know, I feel like I'm a really good swimmer, but I just got dropped into an ocean and I have no idea what direction to swim.
And I wouldn't have to stop myself instead of giving him like some action plan. Like I would to someone I was coaching.
I was like, good. You're in the game, babe.
You got

this. I'll stand on the side and cheer for you.
Eventually, that led us into the real estate path

where now we have a bunch of rental properties. We have long-term rentals, mid-term rentals,

luxury Airbnbs. He's basically the COO of this business and he loves it.
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I ask you to try to find your passion. So you see a significant change in your husband, the man who would go to work and be like, not loving his job to now he's completely into it.
Well, and also like, I mean, we have a one-year-old at the time that we're recording this. And it's like the lifestyle that we would have had if he had to be rushing to do root canelas when we're still not sleeping through the night.
Like our son still wakes up in the middle of the night. So it's like, can you imagine like a sleep deprived dentist, like doing root canals and leaving at 8am, leaving me with a baby? Like I can imagine that it would have resulted to a certain degree in some resentment of feeling like I had to give up my business for him to go be a dentist and him not even loving it.
So it's like, again, like you can't connect the dots until you're looking backwards. But I see like he had to get uncomfortable.
He had to also try out different environments to make sure that it was like actually not the right career path for him. I think there are probably some people listening in that it's like, maybe you're a director of marketing at a company and you need to make sure that before you just walk away from that, you go try being a director of marketing at a company that solves a different problem or that's a different environment to see if it's an environment problem versus just a career problem.
And I think because he had the experience of trying out different types of clinics, he felt confident enough to even say he didn't love it. Because truth of the matter, dental school, 77 grand a year tuition for four years, eight years of his life in like the education space.
And when he left, so many people were like, what are you going to do to like pay off your student loans? And I was like, you could pay off student loans for dental school with other businesses that aren't dentistry. Like any type of money can pay off loans.
Like we'll just go build the money somewhere else, you know? So I think like the truth of all of this is like sitting here now, I have so much gratitude for him being willing to say what he didn't want, what, you know, so many people were clapping for. Like, look, you did this thing.
You're this dentist. And look, you're super so proud of yourself.
But like, he didn't love it. And he had the courage to say it.
But to be really honest, in particular for any of the entrepreneurs that are listening into this, we often talk about the doors that we're opening for a future version of ourselves or the impact that we can make or the impact that we can make on our kids. But I did not know when I became an entrepreneur and started to build this business that I would be opening up a door for a future version of my husband that I didn't even know that he would one day want to

have the option to walk through. The fact that he even knew that financially he could leave because I had a business that was making way more than his dental career was.
And I was like super excited to have him leave. It's so incredible.
That's a really good point. You just don't know who you're going to impact and it might not be the person or in the ways that you think, but the example is always what actually does the impact, not what we say or how we encourage people with our words.
Yeah. Yeah.
And just the knowing too, where it's like, like he knew that we financially would be fine if he left. And like, I think that gave him the ability to even let his brain, which is so much more analytical than my brain.
I'm so much more like jump in the net will appear like super comfortable with risk. Like I'll just build the plane on the way down, like that type of thing.
But he is like, I mean, he's a logical analytical guy. Like he became a dentist because he like likes biochemistry and like, and you know, so it was a big thing for him to leave, but it's been so incredible in our life now.
It's so interesting because I have to imagine, especially with his background, his heritage, that there's these level of expectations and not everybody, I can't imagine, not everyone was happy when he made the decision to leave dentistry. How did he handle that? Did he kind of just like put blinders on and say, I'm just, this is my decision.
I'm not letting people get me to second guess. Yeah, I think he was really impacted by the fact that people that he thought would really be supportive, weren't supportive in particular family.
And I was like, remember, like you wouldn't want to trade places with them. Like you don't want the life that they're living and they can only give advice from their perspective.
And I think often we like to say like, Oh, people don't support me. Like screw the naysayers, blah, blah, blah.
But I'm like, what if we just frame this as they want to support you, but they've never

done what you want to do.

They don't feel like they can give you advice.

So you're just going to have to go do it on your own without their support.

And one day they'll come back around.

And that's exactly what happened.

Like, especially some of his family was openly very unsupportive of this decision.

And I was like, well, good thing it's just the two of us living together because like, I'm super supportive. I've got you.
And I knew that my role was like to super hype him up as he was also grieving the loss of his dad and trying to figure out how to navigate all of this. So I think it's like drowning out the noise a little bit and knowing that like most often the people that are giving you negative feedback, it's just because they haven't done what you want to do.
Like you and I were talking before we started, it's like the podcasting space and some of the things that we're doing business-wise where both of us are like, who can we connect you with? And like, how can I support you? What's going on? Because people that have done things that you want to do or in the arena doing it with you, they want to support you because they know how hard it is when you're first starting. So he had to get really intentional about drowning out that noise.
I took a big hype role. And then we really quickly connected him to other people that were in the space, like emphasizing like going to real estate meetups and just like finding people that were doing what he wanted to do.
So he understood like how to get more comfortable with risk and have like people that he could bounce ideas off of. Then we moved to Denver and there's a huge real estate community here in Denver.
And we plugged right into that and made a bunch of like close friends. So that was super, super helpful for us too.
Being in community with like-minded people, I think oftentimes it's underestimated and or because of COVID and people became more isolated, they've forgotten often people like working remotely or whatever. And I know that works for a lot of people.
But when you do get a group of people together that are like-minded, like you and I love, like doing in-person events and being around people, it's extraordinary. The level of accountability you start holding yourself to, how excited you start becoming and the possibilities.
I said this to my business partner yesterday. I happened to be in person with her.
I leave every in-person meeting with her so hyped because she's ahead of where I am. And so she's always like, of course, this is possible.
What are you talking about? Like, don't question that. Of course, we'll do that.
And just having that assurance of another person who's been the places you want to go suddenly makes it so crystal clear. So thank you for sharing that.
All right. Tell me a little bit about this whole idea of being a beginner and sucking at first, because it's interesting that you've gone through it so many times yourself because you've done so many things new and like you almost get excited about it, but also watching your husband do it.
I would imagine that's even harder because it's someone you love and you care for that you want to help. So I think what's interesting is we talk often about not comparing ourselves to other people, but what I've struggled with more is comparing myself to a prior version of myself when the circumstances were different, right? So like, for example, when we had our son and I decided I was going to start going back into work and like starting to host like retreats and events or whatever I was going to start doing.
And I thought that I could approach it the same way that I did before having a baby. So I was trying to compare myself in this current new mom version, who's like, hormones are all over the place, like super sleep deprived of like, this is how I'm going to approach business.
Because, you know, four months ago before I had this baby, like I was able to do this. So I should be able to do it now.
Same rules apply with doing anything new where it's like, you know, my first business in network marketing, I'm making like three or 400 grand a year speaking on these huge stages, like know what I'm doing. And then I decided to start a membership for my podcast community.
And I was like riding on an easel with a Sharpie. And I was like, like, I don't know what I'm doing.
I feel so stupid doing this. It was a $17 a month membership.
So like the Delta of the amount of money that I was making, like, I was just like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, it's so much easier to go back to the familiar because when you do something at the very beginning, you just suck.
It's like par for the course, you know, where like, of course, as you keep putting your reps in, like you're going to get better and you're going to feel more confident. But I think like, I always have to keep in mind, like I've never done this thing in this season of life before ever.
Right. Like as a mom with a one-year-old, like everything is drastically different.
Like I don't sleep eight hours every night anymore. That's a huge part of like my productivity and my energy.
So it's like anyone that's listening into this is like making sure that like your success criteria for this season of life and also your tenure with the thing that you're doing, whether it's a new career or it's a new business or it's a new offer or program service in your business, your first time public speaking, you're so sweaty and awkward. You have no idea if you're going to like puke or like whatever, what's going to happen.
But after you put a couple reps in, like, okay, I've got the experience from my past that I can look back on and say, see, last time I did this thing, it worked out. And I think sometimes we just don't give ourselves grace and we beat ourselves up because it's like, we forget to take into consideration the season.
And I know like, this is huge for me right now because I'm like, a one-year-old is so different where like I can jump on a plane and go keynote at an event and come home. And he's not saying to me, mom, I wish you stayed home.
You know, two years from now, that could be a different conversation when I have a three-year-old, like how am I gonna make choices in my business? Well, I'm not gonna worry about a future version of me's problems right now. I'm just going to focus on what I need to do right now to keep moving forward and adjusting as I go.
But I think we all need to do this as humans, you know? Wow. It's so powerful.
And what's weird, and I'm interested to hear your perspective on this. When you work in corporate America, so much of your time is spent forecasting forward, right? It's like we're in Q4 right now, but we're planning for Q1.
We're planning for 2025. Well, how are we going to hit that mark for two, Q3, Q4? And then what does that plan look like? I was always spending time in the future so much.
So I do believe to your point, it allows for more worry because you're like, well, how am I going to, I have no idea. And I shouldn't be expected to know how to figure it out because technology is going to change.
AI is going to be different by that. I have so many more tools and opportunities and bigger network by then.
And what I've learned only in the past couple of years, having worked for myself is to trust that that's all going to unfold, but just be where I am in this moment right now. And that is a discipline and a practice.
And I just remind myself all the time, wait a minute, you're worrying about something that could happen in 20 days. Hang on.
Why don't you just get present in this moment and make this the best day possible? Something great could happen today or tomorrow that changes that whole forecast. How do you set yourself up to stay in that moment? Yeah.
So I have a really interesting way that I do this in my head on a regular basis where like when I put my feet down on the ground, like I'm actually in my head, like this is where you are, like be present where your feet are. But I have a relationship with one year ago version of me and one year ahead version of me.
And I kind of toggle back and forth sometimes where like I have this perspective of like so much gratitude for the life that I'm currently living. Cause I recognize one year ago, I mean, actually like right now, one year ago, I was like waiting for this baby to come out who was like six days past his due date.
And like, remember just like wishing for this life that I currently have now and the opportunities that I have now and the network that I have and the income and the impacts that I've made. Like I know how much work I had to do to get to this current stage that I'm at.
So I can feel gratitude for that prior version of me. And then I also recognize that one year ahead from me is going to be able to look back on this exact version of me now.
And like, what gifts am I gifting to her? Right? Like what confidence does she have? Like what connections does she have? Like what type of impact is she making? What opportunities does she have? Like how is she showing up the world? What type of marriage does she have? What's her health like? Because of all the actions that I'm taking. So instead of getting too worried about, especially people that listen into this podcast, it's like you and I, Heather, it's like we have such big visions of things that we want to do.
And the world is at our fingertips like, let's go. Let's take it to the moon.
That can also be really overwhelming if we get caught up in the distance between where we are now and where we want to go. But instead, I just write it off right now where I'm like, of course, I have no idea how the hell I'm going to do that.
But that's why I need the space, the distance between where I am now and where I want to go. That's like my qualification period where I stumble and I learn the grit and resourcefulness.
And then I meet that person that I need. And then I connect with this person and I do X, Y, Z.
Like that's what the whole path is for. But it's difficult because we live in this like instant gratification, Amazon prime culture, where we're socialized to believe that if we get something more quickly, it means it's more desirable or we should be more proud of ourself.
Everybody's celebrating how fast someone did something. But in reality, if we're honest with ourself, and I know how they're like, you're so into fitness.
So I feel like this is a good example for everyone. It's like a lot of people would be like, I want to lose 15 pounds tomorrow.
It's like, okay, if you lost 15 pounds tomorrow, would you actually be able to maintain that? Would you have the habits and the stress management tools and the workout routine and the accountability? And would you be eating well? No, what would happen is you would lose 15 pounds and you would gain it all back and probably some more because you didn't build up the ecosystem to support it with like your habits. Right.
So it's like, we almost need to just start to get more obsessed with the process of getting there rather than just what the process could produce or the end goal so that we don't get anxious, overwhelmed all the time, doubt ourselves. And so that like, we just enjoy our days because we don't know how many we have, you know? It's so interesting.
And I have to express to you like what you just said, who it reminds me of Gary B. As you know, he was my first guest here on the show and him explaining to me, like, you have to enjoy the journey.
And you know, what's funny is I wrote this post right after he explained that to me. And I was like, yeah, easy for him to say, because he's already at the highest, he's like got the biggest podcast in the world.
Like he's got more views than anyone. He's got more, you know, whatever, written more books, blah, blah, blah.
So he's done all the things that I want to do. And I remember thinking like the journey is hard, like it is hard, but to your point, like the longer I'm on this planet, the more I'm starting to realize giving yourself grace, being in that present moment.
And part of that is seeing like what good thing is happening today that I can focus on, be grateful for, because this journey is actually where it's all at, like so little of it. And I remember I related to the come up in corporate America.
The come up for me was like, oh my gosh, you know, probably my early twenties until my early third, like a decade, like really like where I'm climbing ladder before I hit the top in corporate America and made it to the C-suite. And I'll tell you like that grind was hard, but now I look back, I learned so much.
I met so many incredible people. I did have so many unbelievable experiences.
I don't know that I was really enjoying it because I was so focused on, I got to break this glass ceiling. I got to get in there.
And so I've sort of learned from that, that, okay, I'm going to get to where I want to go. I know that I have total belief in faith.
I can see it. I know it's happening.
I don't know how it's happening. I don't know when it's happening, but I'm coming for you, future me, future accomplishments.
I get to start celebrating these wins along the way. And it's like a new discipline.
Like it's, I don't know, it's just still, it's elusive to me. It's not easy every day.
Yeah. It's one of those things where like all of us have the double-edged sword of like our strengths where for me, like I'm probably one of the most like optimistic, happy-go-lucky, excitable people that I literally know.
But on the flip side of that is if I'm bored, I have to get so good at like staying in the mundane, unsexy, like doing the reps because I get shiny object syndrome. I'm like, oh, that looks like that could be more fun.
That could be more fun. That would be more energizing.
So it's like all of us have our own thing. We're like, you are super, super goal-oriented.
We're like, I will do the shit. Whatever I need to do to get me where I want to go, like I'm in it, blinders on.
You're like my husband in that way where it's like, this is the goal. See the goal, hit the goal, go.
Versus me, I'm like, but it's going to be so fun along the way, which I think that joy part is so required, but it's also everything has its double-edged sword where you can miss some of the joy along the way if you're not intentional. I can miss getting to the goal if I let myself squirrel with these like squirrels raving in my brain, like, Keisha, do this, do this, do this.
It's like, no focus. So every personality type, right? Has its things that we have to work on.
Oh, that's, it's so, so true. But I'm appreciating you explaining that because I didn't realize so much of it was personality until you just broke it down, but you're right.
And literally kid, you're one-on-one. So you're like the only one on the planet like that.
And it needs to be celebrated. Okay.
So talk to us a little bit about, we were talking offline about the beginning of your entrepreneurial career involved being in an MLM. And when you broke down for me, what's happened over the last couple of years, I was shocked.
I had no idea. And I want you to share with everybody so people can understand why it's important to set themselves up for not just having one job, one revenue stream, because you put yourself at risk in such a big way.
Yeah. Oh my gosh.
This is like one of my favorite topics to jam about in so many different ways. So for context, for people that don't know network marketing, like MLM structures, basically how it works is instead of a company having brick and mortar locations, they have representatives and different companies, they're called different things.
My first network marketing company that I worked with and the only one I've ever worked with was called Beachbody. People are probably familiar with like 21 Day Fix, Insanity, P90X.
These are some of the workout programs that they created. Well, back in the day, they had a network marketing model where you made income based off of selling like subscriptions to their workouts or their supplements or their shakes.
But you also made money off of the volume of people that were in your organization. So as you helped people learn how to build their business, that's where the multi-level marketing like comes in.
So what they just did a couple of weeks ago is Beachbody announced as many other network marketing companies have announced, like there's been like five or six major ones that have announced this in the last like year or two, that they switched from that network marketing model, where you're paid out based off of your team volume and like recruiting people in, to a direct affiliate model. Meaning like you've got a code that people use or a link that people use, and you just get paid a percentage off of someone buying the product.
So for people that built up massive teams or spent, like and there are some people in Beachbody that spent decades building up thousands and thousands and thousands of people teams, their income is gone come January 1st, except for if they want to sign up for this affiliate model, which like take of example, that would be like 5% of their total income compared to what they used to make. So why that's important.
Obviously there's some people listening into this that maybe you are interested in network marketing. I actually do think it's a really awesome business model in that I started in that and it was like my gateway drug into entrepreneurship.
And I was able to leverage my experience there to take those skills and then go build my own thing. It's a lot easier to build a network marketing business, but you don't own it.
So just keeping in mind that at any point in time, the company can change the structure. Just like my personal beliefs are that a W-2 job is not any safer than being an entrepreneur because at any point in time, a company can restructure, layoffs can happen.
So I think this experience of thinking about my husband was a dentist during COVID. When COVID happened in California, they closed down all offices.
You could only do emergency procedures. So his income was basically gone.
We would have been totally screwed if we were completely relying on that. And then thinking of this network marketing model, closing their doors and people that had all their eggs in that basket, what that looks like.
I think of friends of mine that are executive level at corporations that layoffs happen and restructures happen.

And it's like, I don't say that to scare people, but in a way, I do think it's really valuable for all of us to understand that no one stream of income is safe. Not being just a business owner with one product, program, or service.
Not being a W-2 owner. Not network marketing.
Not insert anything. And it's like, how can we diversify and start to give ourselves more streams of income so that we're safe?

Should like the economy change or should our circumstances or honestly, even our desires change? Like how can we set ourselves up more for success? And I've been thinking about this since I left network marketing in 2019. I've been thinking like, there's no way that that will continue.
And I was wrong that it took so much longer for it actually totally to like be gone. But this has always been in the back of my mind.
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Well, one of the things you were talking about was with your son Brody and how obviously your life has changed so much I mean from becoming a mother is just like I believe it's probably the biggest shift that any woman will go through right in your life from being an individual just has to take care of yourself to all of a sudden having a second person is wild and incredible as you know and are so are so excited about. It's amazing.
But, you know, when you were explaining to me setting yourself up so that you could take a break from business, which is incredible. And I'm so happy you were able to do that.
One of the ways you were able to do that is because years ago you started saying, I want to diversify and set myself. So how did you set yourself up for that? And then how do you move forward now that you have a child? How does that all change? Yeah.
What you're referring to is like when I was working as an entrepreneur, I had a bunch of different products, programs, and services, and everything that I did required me. So, you know, podcasting for my own show and, you know, hosting big events and retreats and speaking and courses that I was on for.
I really liked what I was doing business-wise though. So I wasn't really interested in like creating a bunch of like evergreen courses and stuff like that because I loved getting to intimately work with people and I love in-person events.
So I love hosting them, but like there was no way for me to take myself out of my business. And I saw that as a problem for giving me future options, but I also like didn't want to change it because I loved what I was doing.
So instead I was like, what if we use this business to fuel another business that didn't require my face, my voice, my time, me physically being there. So instead what we started to do is take all of the revenue that was coming in from like horses, memberships, you know, events, sponsorships on podcasts, all of that.
We took all that revenue and I basically just passed it to my husband, Sina, who had left dentistry and

was in real estate investing. And we would just buy properties.
So in the last two and a half

years now, we've bought seven different investment properties. The first Airbnb that we bought here

in Denver made more than he made as a dentist. And we were like, Ooh, baby, we're onto something.

And it was so fun and it was so creative because we looked at the market here in Denver when we first got into real estate investing. And we're like, there's a need for like bachelorette party, retreat themed houses.
Why is there not that many of these in Denver? So we created one, it crushed. We're like, okay, let's figure out how we can do the next one.
We did the next one. We're like, okay, now let's go to the mountains.
Let's do like an A-frame. Let's do the next one.
And like, we've just been kind of scaling, taking one property, getting up and running, then moving it, doing the next property. And now we're sitting here with this awesome investment portfolio that spits off an ash cashflow, but it gives us a lot more optionality of what we want to do next.
So I share that because I think that like, there are some people that are listening into this that are really relying on something being safe. And like the economy changes and market change and like things change all the time in business and definitely in the corporate structure too, that it's like, what could you do on the side or how could you like set yourself up if you're a dual income household? How could you take one income and start using that to start like diversifying on the side or building a personal brand or starting a podcast or creating something outside of what you're doing so that if one of these like really blows up, you have another stream that you could pour into.
So you're not having to like come from this desperation place, but you're doing it because you can kind of funnel from one to the other. It's so smart and you're not watching people when you are in corporate.
It's not really talked about what people were doing it. I didn't know anybody was people just talked about your nine to five and your 401k and like just kind of more the standard or more antiquated way of looking at it.
And the ways that you're talking about, it's literally the options are limitless. And because of the learning industry and people like you and your husband teaching people through podcasts, how to do this, the information's out there.
People are teaching it. People are often doing it many times through podcasts for free.
Like you are, you know, what are some of the experiences you've had teaching people how to do the same things that you're doing? Yeah. So from a real estate perspective, I think it feels really nerve wracking for people because it's such a big investment, like buying a property.
But like what I always remind people is like everything that's ever broken on a house has broken before. Right.
And with like changes in technology and stuff, it's like, I will bet forever that physical people need physical houses to live in. So it doesn't matter what happens with AI or different industries.
Like, you know, I was talking with one of my friends that's in the recruiting space, which is what I was in way back at Google in 2014. The recruiting industry is going to change so drastically in a couple of years because of AI.
So it's like looking at your own job and looking at your own business and being like, what could change based off of the way that the world is going? And asking yourself, am I willing to get uncomfortable with something like real estate investing and learning how to diversify my income? Can I get a little bit uncomfortable doing that or am I willing to get uncomfortable with something like real estate investing and like learning how to diversify like my income? Can I get a little bit uncomfortable doing that? Or am I going to be really damn uncomfortable later if like my job is gone? And I just, I care about this because like, I just truly believe that we're here on this planet, all of us to live lives that we're obsessed with. And I want people to have options and the freedom that comes from like really diversifying yourself, like from an income perspective means you get to spend the time doing the things that you want to be doing.
And if you have a shitty boss or you hate where you're at, you have the option that you could leave and you could at least float yourself for a few months while you found something else. You don't have to stay in environments that are sucking your soul.
From a tactical perspective, I think it's like figuring out what type of asset class that you're interested in. Like we talk a lot about short-term rental because we are big in the short-term rental space.
We've also done midterm rentals, which are like 30 day plus days. We have a long-term rental property and like starting to just think like, what am I curious about? And then asking the people that you're connected to, if anyone else is curious about that, because so often we tell ourselves a story like, oh, I don't have the capital to invest in real estate, where it's like, I bet you, you might have someone that you went to college with that you worked out in a previous job that you're connected with now that might have the capital, but they don't want to operate the deal.
Or maybe you're really good at finding the deal, but somebody else can fund the deal. Or maybe you can fund the deal and somebody else can find the deal.
There's so many different components of this. And so I just want to encourage people that it's like the thing that's stopping you, there's a solution to that thing.
And sometimes you just have to raise the necessity to actually want to go do it because you have to picture a future where like you have more options because you did this now. So I relate this back to a conversation I had yesterday with my son, which is so funny.
I love this idea of give yourself as many options as possible. Don't be a victim to not having the options, which I sort of felt like when I got fired, I was like, I'm optionless.
I have a non-competent. I have no options.
It's so weird that I thought that way back then. And I don't want him to think that way, right? Because that's not true.
That was a lie. I was telling myself it's limitless, the options that you have.
I couldn't work in the media industry. So what, right? That's like one tiny industry.
Anyhow, it's all how you perceive things. He gets his PSAT scores back the other day.
And they weren't bad. They weren't horrible.
They weren't great. They were, okay.
Clearly, I was not worried. It's the first time he ever took the test.
And I said, let me know what you think. And he's like, I think it's fine.
I said, right. I said, so do you think we should get a tutor or put you in one of these classes so that you can get some reps in so so you don't have to be a beginner at it.
So you won't suck next time. And he said, I don't know.
I don't know that I need it. You know, because what 17 year old boy wants to take a PSAT class, right? I get that.
I'm from the same mold. I'd rather be out having fun.
So I said, okay, let me just explain one thing to you. A year from now, do you want to have a ton of options available to you by way of different universities that you got into? Or do you want to kind of be like, oh, shoot, I only got into one, I guess that's one I have to go to.
And he's like, well, obviously, I want all of the options. I'm like, great.
So if we take it on the chin right now and do something hard, taking a class for eight weeks or whatever it is, and it's going to suck a little bit, it's not like something you're excited about. That's going to unlock all of these opportunities.
Is that pain right now worth that reward for a year from now? And he's like, oh yeah, it is. It was just like this great teaching moment for him to say, yeah, you're right.
I don't want to do it. But now suddenly I'm raising my hand.
I do want to do it. I want the options.
Yeah. That's such a good lesson for all of us, regardless of like age or stage of life where it's like going back to like, what are you gifting to a future version of you? Are you going to feel more stuck? Because like the thing is too, there are some people listening into this.
I know that are in stages that you and I have both been in where it's like, I have this thing that I want to do like, uh, but insert like this habit of hesitation, like next year, next month, or I'll get to it or down the road or eventually. And it's like, I just don't want someone listening into this to have this thing that they want to do, this change that they want to make.
And then know that one year from now, they're going to be in the same place because that's one year of action that you could have taken. It's going to get you closer to the vision that you have, but also like one year that you sat there waiting on the sidelines, watching other people do the thing that you wanted to do when they're not any more capable than you are.
They just decided to go and suck and put their reps in. And now you're comparing yourself to them because they're good because they sucked at the beginning while you were just waiting, you know? Oh my gosh.
It's so obvious. You've got to show up and suck at first.

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