#474: Date on YOUR Terms with Thalia Ouimet, VIP Matchmaker, Dating Coach, & Author

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Speaker 2 Don't ever overconsume alcohol on a first or second date. Alcohol can be a crutch, right? It kicks the nerves out of the way.
It just kind of makes you a little bit funnier, more confident.

Speaker 2 And that's great and all. However, when you tend to drink, you might accidentally say something that you wouldn't ever have said sober.
One of the biggest mistakes people make is just over-consuming.

Speaker 2 So, my one of my biggest rules is one drink max. That one drink should kill the nerves.
And so, at that point, that's all you need it for.

Speaker 3 Come on this journey with me. Each week, when you join me, we are going to chase down our goals, overcome adversity, and set you up for a better tomorrow.

Speaker 3 I'm ready for my close-up. Hi and welcome back.
I'm so glad you're back here with me this week. Okay, I have received so many DMs about my dating life.

Speaker 3 And every time I put up a post of me and my girlfriend, Iman, who are both single, I get 9 million DMs about it.

Speaker 3 I figured we might as well jump on today with someone who has created an entire business around coaching women, someone who's written a book about matchmaking.

Speaker 3 Let me give you a little bit of background. My friend Talia, we met.
She's a high-end matchmaker, dating coach, speaker, and author.

Speaker 3 You might have seen her on Bravo TV Access Hollywood she's all over the place with her new book how to attract the right guy talia thank you so much for being here today thank you so much for having me

Speaker 2 all right first of all how does someone because this is something i bet you've been asked a lot how does someone become a matchmaker like that can't be something that you thought of when you were a little kid no i know it's so funny because I did not know when I was younger that this was going to be my end all be all type of career, but I was always matchmaking, you know, in high school, college, you know, after that.

Speaker 2 And I was working in tech and I called my mentor and I said, I don't think this is my purpose. I just don't think tech is for me.
And she goes, okay, honey, well, what do you like to do?

Speaker 2 And what are you passionate about? And I go, I love to matchmake. I know it sounds crazy, but I love setting people up and it's really intuitive for me.

Speaker 2 Like I can just read people's energy and I know who to set them up with. And she said, well, why don't you quit your tech job? and work for an agency and just see if you like it.

Speaker 2 And that's a good starting place. And I said, okay.
So then I quit my tech job, joined the largest matchmaking agency in the Southeast.

Speaker 2 And then after that, for two years, I finally said, you know what, I can do this so much better and I can take it to the big league. So I quit my job, booked a one-way ticket to New York.

Speaker 2 I was couch surfing on my best friend's couch for like two weeks, trying to just like figure out how to start a company, you know, how to make the LC, like, what do I do?

Speaker 2 But I knew the big vision and I also had all the tools and the resources that I had learned from my mentors of working at the agency.

Speaker 2 So finally, it was Valentine's Day in 2020 and I launched the company and it went viral. Like everyone reposted it.
Everyone was so excited. I was living in New York and the company took off.

Speaker 2 And then 20 client weddings later, here we are doing matchmaking full time. It's been half a decade.

Speaker 3 Wow. So something that you just said that I think can benefit everybody listening right now is that you called a mentor, first of all.

Speaker 3 question right so you turned to someone who had expertise in business and in life and was ahead of you super super smart Two, you went to work for someone that had already established themselves as someone successful in the arena that you were considering so that you weren't starting from scratch, from nothing.

Speaker 3 And I think for everyone listening, you know, if you're not happy in the role that you're in, the industry that you're in, that's a really strong path to take.

Speaker 3 Jump on a tall with a mentor, get some advice, and then go to someone who's already doing it. They've taken on the risk.

Speaker 3 They've taken on really the opportunity to start something from the ground up, which is much harder than jumping in and seeing how that place operates so when you jumped in there you were saying at first okay i'm going to learn this business but by the end you were saying i could do this better than what they're doing for sure and here's the thing too i think a lot of people see all my success now and they see all the client weddings and you know all this amazing life i get to live and what i think people don't see is that the come up right like i took a six-figure pay cut working for this agency.

Speaker 2 My salary was like $30,000 for two years, which by the way, you can't survive living in Atlanta with that kind of salary.

Speaker 2 But I knew that long-term, learning from the best of the best, like I worked for the OGs in matchmaking. So I knew that I was going to get the tools.

Speaker 2 So yeah, if you're going to start a business, go learn from the best. And then if it's still, if you're passionate about it, then move it forward and start your own business.

Speaker 3 And when did you know the right time for you had come to jump to take that leap and actually try to do it yourself?

Speaker 2 When all of their reviews on their website said, I just want to work with Talia.

Speaker 3 Wow. That's yeah, the feedback from clients.

Speaker 2 The feedback.

Speaker 3 Right. It was telling you, it was very clear that that was your time, that you need to do it yourself.

Speaker 2 It was time. And also, you know, I kind of missed that tech money.
I was like, okay, like, I need to go back to my other life, you know, like I want something bigger than what I'm doing.

Speaker 2 And I also, I quickly realized I could be my own boss. And I also knew I wanted to start a company.
So moving to New York just made sense.

Speaker 2 So half a decade later, here we are, 20 client weddings later.

Speaker 3 What was it like starting that company initially?

Speaker 3 Because so many people listening right now, a lot of my listeners are in pivotal their career, want to leave corporate, want to go to work for themselves.

Speaker 3 But to actually have the courage and the confidence to make that leap can be tough. I understand what you're saying.

Speaker 3 You were getting the feedback from clients, which is really validating saying, okay, this is to work with. And it was clear to you, like, that was a hello moment.
Like, I can do this on my own.

Speaker 3 But to actually leap and start the company and like you said, sleep on your friend's couch, many people make that move.

Speaker 3 What are some of the pieces of advice you could share for other people so that they can free themselves up to do that?

Speaker 2 I truly think it comes down to confidence. And I know you, you out of all people, you're the queen of confidence.

Speaker 2 And I think that working for someone else and learning the business model, understanding how matchmaking works and doing it on a professional scale, what that meant, what new packages, I think I gained the confidence from working for someone first.

Speaker 2 And then I was like, there's just no plan B because I believe in myself. I now have the confidence because I've learned from the best.
I kind of felt like I graduated.

Speaker 2 You know, there's no such thing as matchmaking school, but if you work for the OGs, so I really think it just comes down to confidence. I just had that confidence I needed.
And it took two years.

Speaker 3 Have you ever doubted your decision? Or have you ever said, oh, I should have not left technology? And or do you wake up every day and say, I know this is my passion. This is my purpose.

Speaker 2 Oh, I love that question. No, I mean, I love what I do and I've never second guessed it.
And actually, no, I get that warm, fuzzy feeling that like I'm right in my purpose.

Speaker 2 And I just feel like the universe, God has validated that for me.

Speaker 2 In fact, even my book that I wrote, you know, selling over a thousand copies and I barely did any marketing around it just tells me that there are people out there really struggling right now and with their love life and there's a huge need for help.

Speaker 2 And so I just love what I do. And I especially love helping women tap into their feminine and like attracting what they really want, you know?

Speaker 3 Okay, tell us a little bit about your new book.

Speaker 2 Okay, so it's called How to Attract the Right Guy. Well, it's called How to Track the Right Guy, Avoid Situationships, and Get Him to Commitment.

Speaker 2 And I would say my favorite chapter that I wrote was chapter two, because I talk about the feminine energy and how when I started my company, I was all in my masculine and how somewhere along the way, I actually lost my feminine energy.

Speaker 2 And I was showing up in New York on these dates in my masculine, and it just wasn't sparking the same type of chemistry as it would in client meetings on these dates.

Speaker 2 And I wrote in my book and I talk about how when you lead with your feminine energy, you will get such a different outcome because these men, again, I've been working with men for decades now.

Speaker 2 And I'll tell you, they love a girly girl. They love a feminine woman.

Speaker 2 Like they get all the masculine energy during their day-to-day in business that when it comes to their partner, they really want that feminine woman. And I had the hardest time for a while.

Speaker 2 transitioning like, okay, we're not in work mode right now.

Speaker 2 I can't treat this date like an interview and I can't treat him like, you know, this is a business meeting and make it an interviewee style or anything like that.

Speaker 2 And even my energy I was bringing couldn't be the same as it was in when I was in work mode. So it took a while to figure it out.

Speaker 2 But then I had that like, haha moment and it just changed everything for me.

Speaker 2 Meet a different guest each week.

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Speaker 1 I ask you to try to find your passion.

Speaker 3 Showing up as whoever

Speaker 3 you are is the right answer. And there is, you know, I don't know a better way to say it, but like a key for every lock.

Speaker 3 Like for a certain person, they're only going to want to date a woman that wears pink and is always in high heels and always looks pretty.

Speaker 3 But then someone else is going to want to date Simone Biles and someone who's showing up in workout clothes and is a powerhouse. So where do people differentiate?

Speaker 3 Okay, this is my authentic self and that's okay. And this will attract the right person versus I'm showing up in feminine energy.

Speaker 2 I know this is going to be very harsh, but I'm after all the data I've done. So I've been doing this total for 10 years with my own agency and before and everything else I was doing.

Speaker 2 And what I will tell you is I have never had a guy tell me that he is looking for a masculine woman. So I will say that, yes, everyone has their own energy and bring their own, you know, whatever.

Speaker 2 However, men, biologically, scientifically, men want a feminine woman.

Speaker 2 So you have to figure out a way to transition out of that masculine energy, or else you'll keep running into the same vicious cycle of problems of not being able to attract that right guy that you're looking for.

Speaker 3 That's interesting. All right, tell us a little bit about the phenomenon of dating online, because in my limited experience, and the first time I've ever been on a dating app has been this year.

Speaker 3 My whole regular dating life is like you walk into a restaurant, somebody walks up to you, they ask you on a date, you give them your phone number, and then you already know you have chemistry.

Speaker 3 And there's like, it's not so confusing. However, what I'm seeing on dating apps is you have no idea if you're going to have chemistry with somebody because you're not meeting in real life.

Speaker 3 You have no idea if people are even representing themselves as who they even

Speaker 3 are. You have no idea if they're just like, it's a marketing campaign.
Like there is no clarity into who people are. And there's so many people, thousands of people.

Speaker 3 Like it's endless, the opportunity to date on either side, men or women. It really, in my opinion, changes the dynamic of dating massively.
And in my, in my opinion, not for the better.

Speaker 3 However, plenty of guys that have gone out will tell me they think it's so much better because it was so hard for them to walk up to women in restaurants the way that I was used to getting approached.

Speaker 3 They said, I would have never met you because I would be too nervous to go. So give me your feedback on what do you think of dating apps and what do you think it's done to dating in general?

Speaker 2 Oh my gosh, I love dating apps. I think it's amazing.
I think that we have technology and we decided to take technology and using it for dating.

Speaker 2 And it's an opportunity for single people to congregate on an app and to meet each other. So I'm a huge fan of them.

Speaker 2 And I, you know, I do matchmaking full time and I have my company, but I also do one-on-one coaching.

Speaker 2 And for those people that are just strictly using dating apps because they have a really heavy day-to-day work life, I think my biggest advice I would say is to make sure that your profile represents you in the best way possible.

Speaker 2 And that like think of like what your partner, the kind of person you're trying to attract, you know, if you are an athletic person, but you also listen to travel and you also, you know, like just make sure that your profile is your billboard and it represents you in the best way.

Speaker 3 Tell you, it's shocking to me how people lie. Not only happen to me, but I'll be on dates with someone and they'll say, oh, thank God you're who you really said you are.

Speaker 3 And so I'll always say, tell me more about that because I'm so curious to find out. And you'll hear people don't even speak the language, I guess, that they say that they do.

Speaker 3 I mean, there's some wild, they lie about their age, lie about where they live. I mean, it goes on and on.
So how does misrepresentation come into play with technology?

Speaker 2 You know, that's just the risk you take. That's the risk you take.

Speaker 2 Either you hire a matchmaker and someone's fully vetted and you bring that candidate forward and you know everything, you know, you have a full bio about them.

Speaker 2 You know, they've passed a background check. That's just the risk you take with online dating.
What advice I can give anyone who's listening who is only wanting to do online dating.

Speaker 2 Always, always, always, always have a FaceTime before you even schedule a date. And what I recommend is just say something like, hey, I think a really, like, let's just say he asks you out, right?

Speaker 2 He's like, hey, I would love to take you to dinner, blah, blah, blah. You say, hey, you know what?

Speaker 2 Actually, I think a really good starting place would be, let's just do a phone call, you know, just that way you kind of start that own vetting process for yourself and you're not getting catfish and you can kind of get a better idea.

Speaker 2 And, you know, something else I talk about in my book is I dedicate an entire chapter to this about using your gut feeling, letting your nervous system speak and pick your partner.

Speaker 2 And it's really important that when you get on that phone call, you use your intuition, you use your gut feeling. Do you feel like everything is saying is off?

Speaker 2 Like, or is he saying all the right things, but your entire stomach is turning and your nervous system is trying to warn you about something?

Speaker 2 So in my book, I talk about what are the flags to look for with your body because your body will always guide you to Mr. Wright.
Always.

Speaker 2 Your nervous system always has your back and it's with you at all times.

Speaker 3 That's such a great reminder. Someone was saying that to me about picking a business partner too, and it applies to everything.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Applies to everything.

Speaker 2 And you feel safe and secure and calm at ease and but still energized about the conversations you're having that is to me a major green flag i know you talk a lot about green red and yellow flags in your book talk to us about the difference and give us some examples of each so the yellow flag i think doesn't get enough hype because i think everyone knows what a red flag right it's when it's when they say something and it's off-putting and your gut's like yeah that's not good you know immediate no or if someone's like i'm just looking for something casual and you're looking to get married red flag, walk away, not your guy.

Speaker 2 But a yellow flag is, I say it's like, study this more. Look, this is an investigation flag.

Speaker 2 So for example, if you are Christian and the guy you're going on a date with is Jewish and you're trying to figure out, okay, how does he want to raise his kids though?

Speaker 2 Is he open to raising his kids with your religion or does it have to be his? You know? And if he's like, you know, I'm kind of open to it, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 And he gives you like a very vague answer, that's a yellow flag.

Speaker 2 It deserves further investigation because you don't want to waste time with that person and fall in love with that person to then find out that, like, they want you to convert to their religion.

Speaker 2 And, you know, I've heard it all at this point.

Speaker 3 So I'll tell you, at this point in my life, I've heard, I've seen it happen with my friends too, even friends who have been in relationships for 10 plus years.

Speaker 3 When it comes time down the aisle, suddenly the conversation changes. So you can think you've vetted everyone.
You can think that you're in love. You can think that you've got the right person.

Speaker 3 And times and situations do change, especially as you approach marriage and having kids.

Speaker 2 Yes, but I will tell you, for the person that goes, there was no red flags. None of us had any idea.
It's like, no, there is always your nervous system will guide you to Mr. Wright.

Speaker 2 And there's always little weird things that will happen. Like, how well do you sleep next to that person? Are you anxious when you go to bed next?

Speaker 2 Like, there's little things that I have helped, like coaching people where I've helped them realize the red flags were always there. They just ignored them.

Speaker 3 It's the same in work situations too. I remember working in a toxic environment.
It happened slowly over time.

Speaker 3 So it was hard to say, you were always kind of questioning, wait a minute, maybe I'll just go back to how it's been. Maybe people are going through a tough time.

Speaker 3 You would want to talk yourself into that because who wants to leave a career and start over, much like a relationship, right?

Speaker 3 However, at some point, you have to say, wait a minute, this is the new norm or, you know, this does seem like these questions are coming up all the time. This can't be right.

Speaker 3 Do you see that happen oftentimes in relationships when people are first starting out that at the beginning, it's amazing and slowly they're saying, wait a minute, maybe this isn't the way that I thought it was going to go?

Speaker 2 Well, let's not forget that chemistry does not equal compatibility.

Speaker 2 So the biggest thing I think people make a mistake on in dating, this is men and women is, okay, we have crazy great chemistry, even like when you're interviewing someone, right?

Speaker 2 And there's great chemistry and you're like, oh my gosh, I really like that person. Like the warm energy is there.
But it's like chemistry doesn't equal compatibility.

Speaker 3 Someone could you know you could have a great time with them however your value systems are just different so that's why it's so important that if you are vetting for yourself that you look at what are their value systems and does it align with your value system it really to me sounds no different than hiring people at work than building a team at work right because you have this certain profile that you know will work for you you need not only ask the right questions probe enough to find out, is there some validation behind this?

Speaker 3 Is there a story behind this?

Speaker 3 But what's also interesting is, and I noticed this more so in personal relationships, and I noticed this dating now at 50 versus dating, you know, in my 20s and 30s, people have more baggage because now there's a divorce behind it.

Speaker 3 This is just what in my experience, but I'm interested to hear yours.

Speaker 3 Divorce is a tough, tough life transition to go through for anyone, no matter how long you're married, no matter if you left or you were cheated on. It doesn't really matter in my opinion.

Speaker 3 But those wounds that people endure going through a divorce oftentimes get brought along to that next relationship i see it all the time right now in dating now so many men that have been cheated on have so much trepidation at a date and when they start dating somebody they're so afraid that i see it affect the type of person they can date or how they show up in dating do you see that often with your clients It's funny that you've mentioned this because my entire chapter once about the self-audit.

Speaker 2 And that's the self-audit. If you go through that process in my book, it will immediately tell you if you're ready to start dating or not.

Speaker 2 Because if someone is scared and jaded and has all this baggage, that means that they don't belong in the marketplace of dating. They belong doing therapy, healing, breaking, whatever works for you.

Speaker 2 But, like, there's a certain level of healing that needs to happen so that you can then make space in your heart for that next person to come in and for you to not come in and bring all of your projections.

Speaker 2 And you're not projecting all of your stuff on your new person. And so, so I think the self-audit is really important so that you can kind of gauge, am I ready for love?

Speaker 2 Have I healed the wounds that were left behind from my previous marriage or from my last breakup? Doesn't even have to be marriage.

Speaker 2 You know, someone could have gone through a traumatic breakup and those wounds are not healed and then they're just projecting and they're jaded.

Speaker 2 And then who wants to date that, you know, and it's, we're all humans. We all go through hard times.

Speaker 2 It's about how do you cope with that and then cope with it in a healthy way so that you can show up in this world and be a great next partner to someone.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I like what you said about the self-audit because I know my last relationship, not my marriage, but my last boyfriend, I took one year off from dating.

Speaker 3 I mean, I would, you know, meet people, go out with my friends, whatever, but everything was very casual. But after, it took me one year to be able to say to myself, honestly, okay, I'm healed now.

Speaker 3 I'm not projecting onto this person. literally treating people like they were my ex-boyfriend, you know, when I had gone on a date with them.

Speaker 3 When I saw that I was behaving that way, I'm like, I'm living in Trigger Central. And if you can't manage your emotions and you're reacting to everything, you are not ready to be dating.

Speaker 3 However, I see it so often. Don't you see it with the dating pool?

Speaker 2 I do. And actually, funny story, I had this incredible client who was referred to me, big billionaire, whatever real estate guy in Manhattan.

Speaker 2 And after we spoke, he was telling me about his divorce and everything. And I said, look, I'll be honest with you.

Speaker 2 I can't match you because I cannot put you up in front of these amazing candidates because it's not going to work out. You're not healed.

Speaker 2 And I said, if you coach with me for 90 days and you graduate from that, then I'm willing to take you on as a matchmaking client and we can look at that.

Speaker 2 However, I'm not taking you on otherwise because you're just not healed. Like you're going to get triggered in two seconds.
So I have seen it.

Speaker 2 It's actually, I think it's pretty obvious when someone's just not done the work.

Speaker 3 It's so glaringly obvious. It's

Speaker 3 pretty wild. And I'm interested to hear your opinion on this.

Speaker 3 I wonder, I only see my female girlfriends and, you know, know, my female circle, but in dating, it seems that men are probably having a tougher time with this.

Speaker 3 One, because there's this whole dynamic that men, you know, aren't typically the ones searching for counseling and searching for support and coaching in their personal relationships in business and in athletics.

Speaker 3 Yes, you know, all day long, but they weren't applying that in the personal life.

Speaker 3 Do you think that they're at a disadvantage when it comes to healing from relationships because they're not the ones necessarily asking for help around it?

Speaker 2 Sure. It's unfortunate.
But yeah, I do think there might be a disadvantage.

Speaker 2 But if you're a listener and you're listening to this right now and you are struggling with a breakup or anything like that, and there's so many amazing tools out there and resources that can get you feeling so much better.

Speaker 2 And it doesn't have to take years, you know? So it's about just leaning in a little bit.

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Speaker 3 One of the concepts that you talk about in your book, I only learned about this year, and I think that it's incredible, the dropping the the handkerchief concept.

Speaker 3 Please dive into that a little bit because it was completely foreign to me. However, after you understand it, then you can start seeing when you were doing it in your life.

Speaker 3 But I think it's a great self-awareness practice to understand this and be taught it.

Speaker 2 Yes. Okay.
So I love the handkerchief.

Speaker 2 The modern day handkerchief is when you are out in a public place and you're out with your girlfriends or even by yourself and you're at Whole Foods, whatever that looks like, and you see someone that you are attracted to and you want to get his attention.

Speaker 2 And I always recommend first do like a little metal scan, make sure he doesn't have a ring on his finger.

Speaker 2 And if you're clear, you know, he might be single and just give him the notion that you are available and open.

Speaker 2 And the first thing you have to do is if you are out with a bunch of your girlfriends, you cannot stick to your five girlfriends because that is too intimidating for these guys.

Speaker 2 Again, I've worked with men for so long. I will tell you, they will not walk up to beautiful girls, like all five of you.
It's just too intimidating.

Speaker 2 So you need to, if you see something you like, separate yourself from the group, go to the bar by yourself for a second, just excuse yourself, and then drop the handkerchief, give him the look.

Speaker 2 I talked about it in my book. I'm not going to give it away, but give him the G-E-S-E and drop that handkerchief so that he can pick it up and, you know, approach you.

Speaker 2 I think if you create an environment that men will feel comfortable to come up to you, they will.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's interesting. As I learned about this concept this year, I started thinking, oh, I've never done that.

Speaker 3 But the more I thought about it, I learned I did it all of the time, whether to your point, it's that you're glancing and locking eyes with somebody that you got up to go to the ladies' room.

Speaker 3 And so then they were able to approach. But the reality is when you sit in the center of a pack of people, it is very rare that somebody would make that approach because it is intimidating.

Speaker 3 And the other thing that I was made aware of is if they're cocky enough and or slash confident enough to make that approach, they're not just making that approach to you.

Speaker 3 They're doing it to a lot of other people. And that was really eye-opening for me as well.

Speaker 2 No, for sure. And I don't know how many times in my early 20s, even in my mid-20s, my girlfriends and I would practice it just for fun, just to see how if it was really working.

Speaker 2 And you would be surprised how when you look at a guy and you give him that warm smile.

Speaker 2 He is going to be captivated and he's going to be like, wait a minute. Oh my God, is she smiling at me? Usually they'll like look behind them to see if you're looking at someone else.

Speaker 2 And it's just so endearing. And then they'll be like, who me? And then you're like, yeah, you.
And then he'll come up to you and say, hi.

Speaker 3 So you're basically making the first move in a non-aggressive, non-masculine way.

Speaker 2 Yes. Did you know that 90% of communication is nonverbal? So you are non-verbally telling him, hi, I'm interested.
Come talk to me. And you can do that with your eyes, with your smile.

Speaker 2 There are so many ways that you can do that from across the room. and get a guy to come to you.

Speaker 3 I was out for a walk the other day with one of my girlfriends. And as you know, we live in Miami.
So there's always good looking people, no matter where you go.

Speaker 3 And a really good looking guy was running and he ran by us. And she said, she's not single and I am.
And she said to me, Heather, oh my gosh, why didn't you lock eyes with him?

Speaker 3 I said, he was running like

Speaker 3 as if we were in slow mo and there was all this time. She's like, next time, fall down.

Speaker 3 She's like, I mean, don't get hurt, but just fall down.

Speaker 3 It is interesting that when you think of it strategically, that's all that it takes is just getting that, you know, that whatever it is, five seconds that you're going to have with a person to be able to say, hey, I am interested.

Speaker 3 I want to get your attention and see if this is reciprocated. Not always the easiest, though, when you're out for a run.

Speaker 2 No, for sure. I definitely think that there are certain environments that you can thrive in a lot easily.

Speaker 2 Like, for example, a houseworming party or like a barbecue or going out to dinner and then you can go up to the bar or if you know, like Soho House, you can go to these membership clubs and all these things.

Speaker 2 Like, what a great place. Cause Cause that's more of like an enclosed environment.
But yeah, no, if the guy's running, that's just, I'm a pro and I wouldn't even do that.

Speaker 2 Just let him run. Let him go for his run.

Speaker 3 I loved your idea. Try to fall, but don't get hurt.
Okay. So what are some of the bigger mistakes that you see women making on a day-to-day basis that you can help give them feedback to correct?

Speaker 2 Ooh, two things. One, oversharing on a first date.
I think that you just have to remember a first and second date, you have not built rapport with that person. It's just like a new hire.

Speaker 2 You guys don't really know each other yet.

Speaker 2 So ease into it and just keep those like deep personal things to yourself, even when the nerves kick in or when that wine hits you, be self-aware enough to keep some, dial it in, always dial it back because you might never see that person again.

Speaker 2 So maybe there are things about yourself that you don't want some stranger running around telling people. So consider that too.
But the other thing I would say is just staying in your feminine energy.

Speaker 2 I don't know how many of my amazing clients that are boss babes that like, or even my girlfriends that own companies or their CEOs, and they take that masculine energy into the dating world.

Speaker 2 And again, I've done this myself. So I know like it's hard to transition after a workday, but it's so important to get back into your femininity and be back into that receiving, that soft energy.

Speaker 2 not that tough powerhouse energy, because men love that soft feminine energy. And there is, by the way, there's a time and place for everything.

Speaker 2 You know, if your man is at home sick and he needs you to like whip things into gear, like, then yes, step into your mask. I'm not saying that masculine energy is bad.
It's harmonious.

Speaker 2 You know, you use it when you need it. But on a first date, definitely be in your feminine energy.

Speaker 3 So you're reminding me of something I'm super curious to hear your take on. So, and you know this, people get so.

Speaker 3 much advice, whether it be about your dating life, your professional life, everybody always, it's real quick to give and offer advice on everybody else, right?

Speaker 3 And oftentimes, as an outsider, it's easy to see what's wrong or, you know, to spot red flags outside looking in on somebody else. So I understand why people do it.

Speaker 3 However, the advice you get is so incredibly different. And I'll just give you an example.
I had people advising me saying, you know, you just really need to start showing up as who you really are.

Speaker 3 People need to know who you are right out of the gates. That way you don't have to worry, you're not going to attract someone who can't handle a strong woman or, you know, whatever it may be.
Okay.

Speaker 3 So that's show up as you and be the all-authentic you write on date one and don't differ. And I had been doing that.

Speaker 3 I was out for a walk with another girlfriend a few months ago and she said, I don't understand how you're still single. I'm like, okay, I'll tell you my last three dates.
So I tell her.

Speaker 3 And again, I've dated great guy. There's not, I've not had one date that was horrible.
Everybody's been good people, right? Listen, not for me.

Speaker 3 Maybe there's no chemistry, whatever, but all nice people. Some of them lied about their age.

Speaker 3 Some of them lied about how they look, but that's a whole different situation or didn't mention they wanted kids and I don't want kids.

Speaker 3 Like some of it just very, okay you had to figure that out all right she says break down the last couple dates for me and i tell her it was interesting one of them was i was on a very long date with a guy and he emptied his whole i mean he told me everything about his divorce he told me way too much he was asking i mean i needed to get out of there i was like this is too much for too much for a first date so it was like a therapy session he treated it like therapy is what he did as if we were about to get married and it was like he had to let me know everything and i was like this is a date one, not, you know, we haven't been dating for five years.

Speaker 3 So it was odd. I'm telling her this.
And she's like, okay, are you open to feedback? Which I thought was a great, you know, door opener to see. Because some people don't want it.

Speaker 3 They don't want to hear it. Right.
And I said, yes, I actually am super open to it. She said, you need to read the book, The Rules, which is a very old book.
I'm sure you've heard of it before.

Speaker 3 I don't know. It's a long time ago.
A very, very famous book. And it's all about the rules of how a woman should behave while dating.
And it's super clear, very black and white.

Speaker 3 Like there's no gray area. Like you can never accept a man's request to go on a date if he hasn't asked you out four days before the date.
You all like, it's like very prescriptive.

Speaker 3 If they don't call you within 24 hours, you don't date them again. You don't stay on a date longer than three hours unless you've been dating for more than a month.

Speaker 3 Like it's very, very prescriptive and totally not how I have been living my life at all. But be some, this is, you know, a friend of mine, she's in a very happy relationship.

Speaker 3 She's like, Heather, all of my happily married friends say they live their life off the rules, and that's why their marriages are so good. Read the book.

Speaker 3 So I went and I read the book and I told her, I'm like, listen, I'm just showing up as me being me, like whatever my gut says, like I just do.

Speaker 3 You know, if someone calls me last minute and I'm free and I want to go out, I go. I don't play.

Speaker 3 To me, this is called playing games when you're, you know, creating lists of things you're going to do or not do and then doing them.

Speaker 3 And she said, just do me a favor and try it for like, you know, a month. So I tried it for a couple of weeks.
And I mean, does it, it changes the way other people show up for sure, right?

Speaker 3 Because you make it real clear very fast with this game that I'm not taking your phone calls. I'm not going out with you, you know, so you can change the behavior very quickly.

Speaker 3 But in my opinion, it felt so weird being so forced.

Speaker 3 Like it felt like being fake because the real me is like, if I'm free and I have nothing to do, I'm like, yeah, let's, I'll run over and meet you, no big deal. Like I'm easygoing that way.

Speaker 3 However, if I'm busy, what I'm booked, like there's no chance that you're getting on my calendar. So it was sort of, I don't know, it was showing up as a different person than who I really am.

Speaker 3 And I don't know that maybe to her point, it will get you the outcome that you want.

Speaker 3 Like it will get these guys chasing you if that's what you're going for, but they're chasing someone who isn't the real you. I felt like there was a ton of mismatch there.

Speaker 3 What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 So here's the deal.

Speaker 2 If you were looking to date someone who is on your level, someone who is successful, someone who's ambitious, that man is very much alpha and he is in in his masculine energy, which Heather, I think that's what you need, truly.

Speaker 2 That kind of guy is used to hearing no eight times and he's still not taking no for an answer until he gets a yes. So guess what?

Speaker 2 You're ruining your shot with him when you make yourself readily available on Friday night because you happen to be free and he's like, hey, you want to go out tonight? And you're like, yeah.

Speaker 3 Hold on.

Speaker 2 These alphas, these go-getters, these ambitious men that are super into masculine don't actually like that because their whole thing is like winning, right?

Speaker 2 That's how they built their empires, how they built their companies, how they're so successful. So if you're trying to date that really successful man, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 It's all about what you're trying to attract, right? But I know you and I know that you're trying to date someone who is ambitious because you're ambitious. And

Speaker 2 you kind of have to play the game because he has to feel like he won you. Or else it's too, it's just too easy.
It's like closing a deal.

Speaker 2 It's like you pitched and then he was like, yeah, demo was great. Sign me up.
I'll write the check.

Speaker 3 it's like oh okay there was no fun in that it's like and so you've got to make him work for it if that's kind of guy you're going for does that make sense though does that resonate yeah yeah no no i completely understand what you're saying i'll just say it's a lot of work like dates so much work and this is why another one people say why are you saying i'm like one read some of the messages that these men send and then you'll understand because i am very picky and i would never go out with people like this ever that's one two

Speaker 3 is it takes so much time. And when you work a lot and have a child, like and have your friends and have, you know, and you work out and like, there's all these parts of your life.

Speaker 3 Oftentimes, there just isn't a lot of time to manage this unless you're going to shut down. If you're saying yes to something, you're saying no to a lot of other things.

Speaker 3 So it's like priority standpoint. Yes, my friends that are younger that still want to have kids, I get it.
Like this is their number one priority in life.

Speaker 3 And it is like they are crystal clear on it and they are like live or die. However, I also see the emotions.

Speaker 3 I'm sure you see this, Taya, the emotions with younger women who want to have babies and want to have families.

Speaker 3 It's like when they get back from a date, it's talking my friends off the ledge that I literally, they're crying if it didn't work out and they thought this was the right person.

Speaker 3 So it's, it's just interesting where you are in your life, what your ambitions are for family, what you're, you know, how important the dating is can really make or break you and how you respond in these dates.

Speaker 2 No, for sure. I do so much one-on-one coaching.
I've heard it all. And it depends on your phase of life.
It depends on what you're going going through.

Speaker 2 It depends on what kind of guy you're trying to attract.

Speaker 2 Again, if you're trying to attract a high net worth individual who's successful, who's built something credible, something that you guys can continue to build together, because you also own a business or you're a CEO, you know, you kind of have to play the game.

Speaker 2 And that's just the honest to God truth. So it just depends on what you're trying to attract.
And by the way, feminine energy will never fail on you.

Speaker 2 There has never been like a masculine alpha who's been like, I want a masculine woman. It's like, no, no, no, it's never happened.
It's just never happened.

Speaker 3 So give us an example of a story of one of the marriages that you put together and like how it worked out.

Speaker 2 This is so good. The biggest lesson in this story, by the way, is how when you have a very specific type, it can hold you back from meeting your person.

Speaker 2 It can hold you back from meeting your God, divine person that you were meant to reproduce with, that you were meant to build life with.

Speaker 2 Because sometimes what we think is meant for us, you know, God has a greater plan or the universe has a greater plan, you know?

Speaker 2 So, my biggest, craziest story of marriage was when I was setting up one of my clients with one of my closest girlfriends.

Speaker 2 And, you know, it's always interesting when you're setting up your girlfriends with one of your clients because it's business and it's also personal, but it's always fun.

Speaker 2 And she just refused to go on a date with my client. She was like, no, he doesn't have good sense of taste in fashion.
I don't like the way this guy dresses in his pictures.

Speaker 2 And I said to her, I said, you are getting in your own way. I said, I know this is your husband.
And I'm not saying this because he's my client. I got paid on this.

Speaker 2 I'm telling you because I intuitively, my gut feeling is telling you this is the one. You guys, your values are in alignment.
Everything, you guys are like the guy, girl version of each other.

Speaker 2 And you guys compliment each other so well. So long story short, I finally convinced her to do it.
I sent him a text. I said, just send her a text that you got a reservation at this restaurant.

Speaker 2 It's her favorite restaurant. She will not.
decline.

Speaker 3 I know her.

Speaker 2 So he sent her a text like, I got a reservation for this Friday at 8 p.m. I would love to take you here.
Can I send a car at 730? Whatever, something like that.

Speaker 2 And she calls me, she's like, he got a reservation at the da-da-da-da-da. And I said,

Speaker 3 really?

Speaker 2 And so she said yes. And they've now been married for three years.
They just had their second baby.

Speaker 2 And the joke's on her, you know, she was so caught up in her type and how her man was supposed to look.

Speaker 2 And by the way, my client was like 6'2, handsome, successful, but she was so obsessed with like being with someone who really knew how to dress himself and all these things.

Speaker 2 But what I tried to explain to her is that at the end of the day, that's not a character flaw and that's changeable.

Speaker 2 If a guy doesn't know how to dress himself, he can get a stylist or you can help him. It's so easily fixed.

Speaker 2 You know, I still can't believe I pulled it off and that they're still married and they're just so happy with babies.

Speaker 2 Meet a different guest each week.

Speaker 2 Confidence clear.

Speaker 2 I ask you to try to find your passion and

Speaker 3 That's when you know that you're doing so much good when people are creating lives and reproducing and having families. That's amazing.
Okay, so

Speaker 3 break down for everyone

Speaker 3 your rules, like how I was mentioning, you know, there are these rule book for women. And I know that you don't subscribe to all of these ideas, but like, what are some of the rules?

Speaker 3 Like you said, that you cannot be available on the day that somebody wants to ask you. What are some of the rules that are important to you?

Speaker 2 So there's a couple, right? And in the book, I give it like the Bill of Rights for dating rules, and there's 10 of them, but I want to cover the first one.

Speaker 2 And the first one is don't ever over consume alcohol on a first or second date. And here's the reason why.
Alcohol can be a crutch, right? It kicks the nerves out of the way.

Speaker 2 It just kind of makes you a little bit funnier, more confident. And that's great and all.

Speaker 2 However, just remember that when you tend to drink, you might accidentally say something that you wouldn't ever have said sober, just like when you're drinking with your employees at during happy hour and you say something and you're like, I, you know, that was so personal.

Speaker 2 I really shouldn't have said that to my employer or to my coworker, reeling it in, and it was the alcohol talking through you.

Speaker 2 And so I think the one of the biggest mistakes people make is just overconsuming. So, my one of my biggest rules is one drink max.
That one drink should kill the nerves.

Speaker 2 And so, at that point, that's all you need it for. Another big one is always show up on time.
I know it sounds silly, but being punctual on dates, you'd be surprised.

Speaker 2 These men are so sicklers about time and they do value their times very seriously. So you want to make sure that you're putting your best foot forward and showing up on time.

Speaker 2 And then actually, you know what? I have one more because I don't want to share all 10, but another one is being kind to wait staff.

Speaker 2 And what I mean by that is I have seen people think they're being kind to wait staff, but in reality, they're so in a rush and they're so focused on the date that they're shooing off their waiter or being like, yeah, thanks.

Speaker 2 And it just comes off crass and it might come off rude.

Speaker 2 And so to make sure that you're representing your brand, your personal brand, that you're representing yourself well on these dates, to just take that extra second to be really kind to wait staff because it makes you look so good.

Speaker 2 You get so many brownie points from that. Okay, great tips and totally agree.

Speaker 3 Now, what about one of the things I see come up a lot, especially with dating apps, you could be dating so many different people at the same time is when you haven't heard from somebody in, let's say, a week and a half, and then they message you back.

Speaker 3 What's the direction that you give women when a guy's kind of disappeared for a while and then shows back up?

Speaker 2 So you're saying he ghosted and then he's resurfacing and it's been a week and a half.

Speaker 3 I see it happen a lot that you might not hear from somebody for a week and then they call you or they send you a text and you're,

Speaker 3 that's odd.

Speaker 2 No, I'm just going to go ahead and say no, because You know, in these early stages of dating, if people are putting their best foot forward, is that really the kind of person you want to be with someone someone who's unreliable, wishy-washy energy?

Speaker 2 At the end of the day, if someone is in the state of readiness, the way you are in that state of readiness, they will be the hunter. They are going to make effort just like you are being.

Speaker 2 Oh, wait, hold on. That actually brings up another point.

Speaker 2 To any female out there or any guy out there listening to this, if you are a horrible texter, you are not timely, you are not a good communicator when it comes to dating.

Speaker 2 I'm not talking about your work life, talking about dating specifically, just know that that energy will be mirrored right back to you because people typically will mirror your energy so if you are really good about these dating apps and responding quickly and you're timely with these text messages people will typically match you there and if you're being great and they're not matching your energy and they're taking a week and a half good riddance such a waste of time Okay, what about when you go out with someone and they're so nice and just great people, but there's no chemistry and then they start messaging you again.

Speaker 3 And to your your point, you don't want to leave people on. You don't want to be putting negative energy out there because you don't want that coming back to you.

Speaker 3 What is the right way to handle it to let somebody know like you're a great person? You're just not my person.

Speaker 2 Communication is key, right? You know, you're not going to have chemistry with everyone. And communicating, I just say like, do how you would want someone to do it to you, right?

Speaker 2 Instead of being strung along or being ghosted, wouldn't you just rather have someone text you and say, hey, I think you're awesome.

Speaker 2 I just don't think that we have that chemistry or that romantic click that we need. Let's just call it friends or just send them like one line, one quick text.

Speaker 2 And by the way, it's like anything in life. The first time you do it, you're going to feel so uncomfortable and you're going to feel like you've rejected someone.
It's going to feel really icky.

Speaker 2 But the more you do it and you practice just communicating like, hey, I just didn't feel that spark that I needed. Let's call it friends.
it will come more naturally.

Speaker 2 And I think that that also puts out good karmic energy for you. And it's going to come back tenfold.

Speaker 3 Oh my gosh, this is so funny. I had gone on a date with someone such like a salt of the earth, great human,

Speaker 3 really wanted kids. I was super aggressive on the date.
Like, I am not having any more kids. My kid is 17.
Like, we hit the easy button over here a long time ago, not rebooting.

Speaker 3 And he's like, okay, well, maybe I can get beyond having kids. I'm like, no,

Speaker 3 no, you should go meet somebody that wants to have kids. Like, I'm the wrong.

Speaker 3 And I said this to him on the date, but we got along very well. He's really funny, smart guy.
Anyhow, cut two, we leave and he met Struce. He's like, we really need to go out for a second date.

Speaker 3 But I knew and it was on my mind, Tanya, for a couple of days. And I did not know how to respond.
So I hadn't responded.

Speaker 3 I went to dinner with one of my gay guy friends and we're at dinner and I said to him, I'm like, we have got to resolve this tonight because I feel like a terrible, I would never not respond to someone.

Speaker 3 I felt terrible, but I didn't know how to say this in the most positive, kindest, I didn't know how to handle it.

Speaker 2 And so.

Speaker 3 He says, okay, so I told him, he said, empty your glass. I did.
I told him everything. He goes, Greg, give me your phone now.

Speaker 2 I'm like, okay, I handed my phone.

Speaker 3 This is the funniest thing. And he was so right.
He was so direct. He was so no emotion because if he hadn't been on the date, within 30 seconds, a guy responded and said, thank you.

Speaker 3 Thank you so much, Heather. Thank you for being honest.
Thank you for being.

Speaker 3 He so appreciated that my friend basically said something like this. I had the greatest time with you.
You are smart, kind, and a wonderful person. However, I'm not your person.

Speaker 3 And that was, and he was like, great with it. He thought it was the greatest thing.
It set him free.

Speaker 2 A hundred percent. We love when a guy is being transparent and straightforward with us.
It's no different for the other side.

Speaker 2 And so actually, I wrote, I don't, it's definitely still somewhere on Google, but I wrote, if you type in my first and last name, bustle article about the 23 texts to tell someone you're not interested.

Speaker 2 And you can copy and paste any of these 23. Like I wrote out.
23 in this article that were just simple and easy, straight to the point. I'm just not interested.

Speaker 2 I think you're great, but let's just leave it there. And people love the straightforwardness.
So ghosting is not, it's just not kind.

Speaker 3 It allows people to think way too much about what did I do? Did I do something? Like you start putting it on you. And that is, I, oh my gosh, I've had way too many phone calls.
And this is so funny.

Speaker 3 A guy that I was out with

Speaker 3 like, oh my gosh, all of my girl, my girlfriends that go on these dates and these guys are ghosting them. He said, and then they call me all upset.
He said, so now thank God for AI, Heather.

Speaker 3 He said, I send all of my girlfriends to a chat gpt

Speaker 2 oh my goodness that is hysterical chat gpt is now involved in dating who would have thought that is wild

Speaker 3 i'm not saying that's some good advice but i found it pretty entertaining okay before we let you go what else do we need to know how can people get a hold of you how can people work with you what do you want to say before we wrap the show today Oh, well, if you're interested in doing matchmaking, definitely the best way to get in touch with me is through Instagram.

Speaker 2 Just send me a DM saying match me and i know that is what it's about and if you want to do coaching let's just say that you have a really great network and you have all the right people you just aren't quite getting your stride in that way and you just want to do coaching send me a dm and say i'd love to work with you one-on-one and so oh my instagram it's at talia we met so it's just at first name last name and people that want to find your book It's on Amazon, how to attract the right guy.

Speaker 2 And I actually have my Amazon link on my bio on my Instagram.

Speaker 3 All right, Talia. Well, keep getting people married, keep doing your life work, and keep shining your light.
We all appreciate it here.

Speaker 2 Oh, thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 3 Thank you. Guys, until next week, keep creating your confidence.
You know, I will be.

Speaker 3 I decided to change that dynamic.

Speaker 3 I couldn't be more excited for what you're going to hear. Start learning and growing.
Inevitably, something will happen.

Speaker 3 No one succeeds alone.

Speaker 3 You don't stop and look around once in a while. You could miss it.
Come on this journey with me.