#514 Why the Best Networkers Don’t “Network” (And What They Do Instead) with Scott MacGregor, Founder of the Outlier Project

I don't build a network.

I build friendships.

I build relationships.

There's a huge difference.

Networking to me is transactional.

And I think as soon as you're transactional, things change.

You know, if you need something to happen by a certain time, that's going to be like a drive-by friendship.

It's probably not going to be sustainable.

Come on this journey with me.

Each week, when you join me, we are going to chase down our goals, overcome adversity, and set you up for a better tomorrow.

Let's learn your sleep here.

I'm ready for my close-up.

Hi, and welcome back.

I'm so glad you're back here with me this week.

Okay, today you get to meet one of my dearest friends, but more important than him being an incredible human and one of my dearest friends, he is the master of networking, connections, relationship.

building community.

You are going to learn so much from this man.

Scott McGregor is a powerhouse.

And I need to to read some of the key points from his bio because it's just going to blow you away.

He's a founder of the Outlier Project, founder of Outlier Magazine.

I can't wait to get into all this.

Founder and CEO of Something New, four-time author of the Standing O series.

I'm so excited about all these different points.

He's won so many different awards.

It's unbelievable in the staffing industry.

Any type of score on his businesses is always 99.99%.

I mean, the guy is winning on all levels.

He's a winner of the sales executive of the year, founder of magazine 100 top founders, contributor to Forbes magazine.

It just goes on and on.

Advisory Council, Harvard Business Review.

He's a past chairman of the board to elevate.

I mean, literally, the guy doesn't sleep.

All he does is help others and build incredible businesses and build incredible relationships.

And he's going to teach you how to do that today.

Scott, thank you so much for being here.

Heather,

I could not be more excited for this.

I've been looking forward to it all day.

You know, I absolutely love you to pieces and I hold you in the absolute highest regard.

You are one of the best podcasters on the planet.

Oh my gosh.

Thank you so much.

That means so much.

Knowing the network of podcasters that you have that you're close to, that means a lot coming from you.

All right.

So let's go backwards first before we move forwards.

Let's tell them a little bit about your backstory and your comeup.

Yeah, you know, I grew up relatively poor in an affluent town.

So I stuck out like a sore thumb because economically, you know, we were very, very different from everybody else.

So, you know, as a kid, I was just trying to figure out the world.

And the world, when you're a kid, is the town you live in.

Like, it really doesn't extend much beyond that.

And I was just trying to figure out why were my experiences so different from my peers.

And so that spur, I think, really spawned kind of a lifelong curiosity.

So

I thought it was because of my circumstances, but I'm 57 now.

And I will tell you, I'm as curious at 57 as I was when I was seven.

So, you know, part of my journey has just been that trying to satiate that curiosity.

And I recognized early on in life.

that I was an outlier.

I didn't call it that, but I knew very early on as a kid, I knew I thought differently about things than my peers.

But when you're a kid and you think differently about stuff,

Heather, you just think you're weird.

Like I wasn't celebrating it.

I'm like, there's something wrong with me because I do not think the way that everyone else thinks.

And then later on in life, when I got, especially when I got into business, I was hitting levels of success that my peers were not.

And I really stepped back and I'm like, why is this this happening for me?

I wasn't more connected.

I didn't have more money.

I wasn't better looking.

Like, I didn't have anything that I saw as a distinct advantage.

But I pretty quickly realized that by being a contrarian, by always when everyone was going left, I just intuitively wanted to go right.

And by taking that path less traveled, that's where the pot of gold is in life.

So I have leaned into that heavily

always in my career, but even more so now as an entrepreneur.

Well, can you give us some examples of some of the businesses that you've created and how you found success going the opposite way versus the general population?

Yeah.

So the first business I started,

I was a chief revenue officer.

Sound familiar, like somebody I know.

And, you know, we had had massive success we grew a company from about five people to nearly 300 and had double digit growth every single year for 17 straight years

and so through that i was drinking from a fire hose every single day and we were hiring people like crazy and especially like 08 09 the economy sucked but we were hiring people like crazy.

So every recruiter and their brother was calling me, supposedly going to provide us with exceptional talent.

And I will tell you that my experience as a sales leader for 17 years dealing with recruiters, I thought it was the most backwards

industry, the most antiquated industry I had ever seen in my life.

And I thought I could build a better mousetrap.

I thought I could build a different mousetrap.

So I started a company 10 years ago called Something New.

And that company won eight consecutive American Business Awards for Innovation, which the record was three prior to that.

And we literally built a different mousetrap.

So everything

that I had seen that drove me nuts as a CRO, we just did the opposite.

And sometimes that's how easy it is.

It's just, what are the things that drive you crazy about, you know, a certain industry or vendors that you may work with?

And just do the opposite and you'll probably meet with success.

And that's exactly what happened, you know, at Something New.

And so what made you decide to get out of that business and or expand from that business into all of these different things that you're doing today?

So I started the community because I had all these relationships that I had built for decades with super interesting people.

And

I thought, boy, wouldn't it be cool if I could bring these people in to talk to a community, but do it in a different way, in a live and interactive format.

And so that was kind of the beginning of starting a community.

And then again, access to these amazing people and some of them, you know, are billion-dollar CEOs or famous musicians or chefs or Navy SEALs or pro athletes, Olympians, et cetera, best-selling authors.

I knew I had an opportunity to leverage that again

and decided to start a magazine called Outlier Magazine, where I could celebrate the people that I admire the most in the world, which are people that are unafraid to show up differently and unafraid to travel down that path that is less traveled.

despite the fact that they know it's going to be dark, it's going to be scary, they're not going to have a lot of company, they're going to probably trip and fall and skin their knees.

Those are the people I want to celebrate.

And I'm now able to do that through the community, but I'm also able to do it through the magazine.

And so, how many years in are you now with creating this community?

We're about two and a half years into the community.

We have about 750 members in 35 countries.

And we're five issues in on the magazine and we have 30,000 subscribers, which, you know, I wasn't expecting that kind of growth, but I think people are really

thirsting for not only a digital magazine, but also a physical magazine.

So we are both a physical magazine and a digital.

And I think people love to read about outliers.

I think people love to hear the stories of those brave people who buck the system and are rebels or black sheep or mavericks.

So those are the people I like to celebrate.

All right, so let's run it back to the beginning of the standing O series because I feel like the standing O series kind of cracked open the door to the community and what you're doing now.

So can you tell everybody a little bit about how standing O came to be and what that book series is all about?

So when I started my company something new 10 years ago, giving back to me was super important.

But I had a huge problem.

And the huge problem was I'm a total control freak.

So I did not want to take any VC money because I didn't want anybody to tell me what to do.

So I'm like, how am I going to give back when I'm literally bootstrapping this business and I'm pouring every penny that I'm making back into the business?

So I sat back and I'm like, well, what are my assets?

And my assets were not a gigantic bank account that I could write checks to these organizations that I cared about.

And I realized very quickly that my assets were all these unbelievable friends that I had.

So I thought, okay,

what if I ask my friends to write a chapter of gratitude for a life lesson learned?

I'll put it in a book and I'll give 100% of the proceeds to charity.

So the first book that I wrote was called Standing O.

And Dick Formiel, who's in the Football Hall of Fame, wrote the forward.

And Tiki Barber, who's an all-time grade from the New York Giants, wrote the cover quote.

And then friends of mine from Jesse Itzler to Heather Monaghan wrote chapters of gratitude, beautiful chapters of gratitude.

And it worked.

We sold a bunch of books.

We raised a bunch of money for a couple of nonprofits that I was really passionate about.

And we gave them a lot of exposure.

And so I thought, okay, this formula works.

So I did it again with a book called Standing O Encore.

And

another friend of mine stepped up, Heather Monaghan.

I don't know if you know her, but she wrote the forward to Standing Out Encore.

Jesse Itzler wrote the cover quote.

And so we've done that four times.

Fifth book will come out this year.

So I think it was a cool way to give people exposure to some of these unique friends that I have and hear their stories of gratitude for a life lesson learned.

So maybe it was a little bit.

of a peek into their life that they normally wouldn't get.

The thing that it didn't didn't satisfy was it's not, it wasn't interactive.

And that's really what pushed it into the community where in the community, people now get to ask the Heathers and the Dick for meals and the Jesse's questions.

And that's a different experience.

So yeah, the Standing O series has been

just a really fun way to give back in kind of a unique aspect.

So I've loved it.

What I love that what you're describing as I'm listening to you is there was no master plan 10 years ago for any of this.

It's more as you were building this business, something new,

you said, I'm struggling to give back.

I want to give back.

Let me try this writing a book situation, which then took off and led you into, okay, well, how can we even get people more involved with these people?

And then that led into your community.

I have always lived into the answers.

You know, you talk about messy action a lot, and I believe in that so much.

And, you know, I call it living into the answers.

I think too many people,

they have to figure out what the end of the game looks like and every step along the way.

And that's not really how it works, especially as an entrepreneur.

Like there are so many things that are going to come at you from left field.

You have to be prepared to kind of go into uncharted waters and live into the answers.

I mean, you have to have some idea of where you're going, but you don't have to have it all mapped out.

So I'm very, very comfortable figuring it out as I go.

I've never heard live into the answers.

Explain that a little bit better for us.

Live into the answers just means you don't have to have the answer right now.

You live into that answer.

So as you progress through whether it's a business or or whatever it is that you're trying to build or a relationship, you're just living into that answer.

So, as you're accumulating more data, you're making the adjustments and you're bobbing and weaving and making new decisions.

It's just inconceivable to me that you're going to know all that stuff up front.

So, you really have to live into the answers all the time.

But most people get stuck

because

it's scary to do that.

You know, it's funny, though, I'm thinking about this when I'm listening to you talk.

I was thinking about the juxtapose of corporate America versus entrepreneurial, which when you talk about living into the answers, entrepreneurial is totally that.

However, I was just thinking, and I know this is not true, this is a lie, corporate America is not that.

Here's what I noticed now, and I'm interested as you've had experience in both, if you feel the same way.

You think it as an employee in corporate America,

everything is known, everything is clear, you know, we know you're told what to do and you're not living into the answer.

However, that's actually when most companies really start to decline, whether they know it yet or not, when they just put things on rinse and repeat, especially with the employees living that way, you're taking a turn the wrong direction versus living into the answers.

You're always trying to reinvent.

You're always trying to fail forward.

You're always trying to find that next path.

And that's how you ultimately succeed.

Do you see it that way now that you're out i totally do you know it's the reason why i left i i worked at a fortune 500 company and i had a ton of success i was the youngest national account manager in the history of the company and the company at that time was i don't know 80 90 years old but i left because

I would have an idea.

I was young.

I was in my 20s and I'd have these ideas.

I'd be so enthusiastic.

I'd bring it to my manager.

They'd be like, oh, my God, that's a great idea.

They would take it to their boss.

Great idea.

And then nothing would ever happen because we were kind of like the Titanic.

We could see the iceberg and we're like, holy shit, we are too big and too slow and probably too dumb to course correct.

And we're just going to smash into that iceberg.

And to me, that was like, oh my God, I cannot live that life.

Like that will drive me absolutely insane.

I need to live into the answers and I need to be quick and I need to be able to pivot.

And if I see the iceberg, I've got to figure out a way, you know, to get around it.

I couldn't live in that environment.

So I said, that's it.

And that's when I went to the startup where we really lived kind of that living into the answer life.

I love that.

When you explain heading, you're on the Titanic heading for the iceberg.

In the radio business, that was exactly what was happening.

And people were still saying in our company, this is the way we've always done it.

I like the visual that you're providing.

Like you can see we're heading iceberg and no one is adjusting.

If you are in that situation, if you're listening right now and you're like, oh my gosh, that's me going to work every day, pick your head up out of the industry you're in.

There are growth industries, there are opportunities, there are startups out there, there are people looking for great people.

Your skill sets and talents can be applied to succeed outside of that arena.

Do not stay on the Titanic if you're on it.

For me, I remember thinking like, this is all I know.

What if this is all I'm good at?

Oh my gosh, yet again, that is such a lie.

It's It's all about fear.

Choose to see fear as a green light that means go and go faster.

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I asked you to try to find your passion.

Okay, Scott, one of the things that you are known for better than anyone, I mean, you're, in my opinion, the best in the world.

Networking and building a network.

I'm constantly asked questions about how can I build a network?

How in this digital era can I build a network?

How in a city like Miami, where it's so transient, can I build a network?

How can now that so many people work remotely, how can I build a network?

Can you talk us through some of the strategies that you've put in place that have made you such a master at creating a network?

Yeah, I think the first thing to be able to create a great network is don't build a network.

I don't build a network.

I build friendships.

I build relationships.

There's a huge difference.

Networking to me is transactional.

And I think as soon as you're transactional, things change dramatically.

So, you know, if you need something to happen by a certain time,

I think that relationship is inherently going to be transactional.

And I would call that, that's going to be like a drive-by friendship.

It's probably not going to be sustainable.

And

so I view things very differently.

I view things as building a friendship, and I never think of monetizing a relationship.

I think that's the kiss of death.

So

I go into every relationship just saying,

is this an interesting person that I would like to get to know?

Because

I have wound up in some pretty amazing spots in my life.

And when I wind up in that spot or in that room or in that situation where I'm like, how the hell did I get here?

When I reverse engineer it, it's never a straight line.

It's this crazy circuitous path that takes me back to,

okay, eight years ago, Heather Monaghan reached out to me to ask me a question,

and

I built this friendship that I had no idea you would be in my first book, right beforeward to my second book, that eight years later, I'd be on your podcast and all the other incredible things that happened.

I think if I looked at it as

how am I going to monetize this relationship with Heather Monaghan in the next 360 or 90 days, we probably wouldn't be talking today.

But most people,

that's how they think about things.

And I would say that screws everything up.

So there's so many things you have to do

to build relationships.

And I think

first,

most people think they're really good at building relationships because everybody has some friends or everybody gets something from social media.

But I would say, in my opinion, most people are not great at building relationships.

I just know, let's just use LinkedIn as an example.

99% of people that connect with me either don't send me a message, or if they send me a message, it's a terrible message.

Or if I connect with them, regardless of whether they do one or the other, they immediately start pitching me on something.

That is the worst way you could possibly build a relationship.

So that's kind of one of my anecdotal, you know, pieces of evidence that I don't think most people are really good at building relationships and friendships.

There's so many things that I could talk about when it comes to this subject because I'm so passionate about it.

I even think of the word friend differently.

Like most people will not call somebody a friend unless they're ready to have like a pajama party with them.

This is my definition of a friend.

If I know you

and you know me

and we like each other, we're friends.

Now, that doesn't mean we're BFFs, but we're friends.

So as soon as you put somebody in your mind, they're your friend.

You start to treat things differently and things are no longer transactional and things are more about them than they are about you.

So I think just refining your definition of what a friend is, I mean, I felt like you and I were friends very early on.

Like first conversation, I knew you, you knew me, I liked you, you liked me.

And then, you know, so we went from probably

a situation where if somebody said do you know heather i would say yeah i know heather to now if somebody says do you know heather i'm like do i know heather i freaking love heather monaghan so it changes there's a continuum of friendships but i think having the mindset of viewing people as your friend changes the way you approach people I love that.

I've never heard that before.

Okay, I want to tell the story how we met because I think this is important for people to understand too, because I believe this is one of the reasons why you have such a massive network or so many friends.

At the time I was engaged and my then fiancé had a daughter who was getting ready to go to college and she wanted, I think it was NYU, was it Scott?

Was it NYU?

It was NYU.

She was interested in NYU.

We didn't know anybody affiliated, but we wanted to get some intel on the school and see if it would be a good fit for her.

So I said, well, let me go to LinkedIn where I have a presence and see who I know.

You know, this is where I think LinkedIn is incredible.

That network's amazing.

So I just typed in NYU.

Somehow you and I were connected and you were an adjunct professor for NYU.

And I just sent you a DM and I said, hey, Scott, Heather Monningham, listen, I don't know how involved you are with NYU, but my fiancé's daughter is really interested.

And I wondered if I could jump on a call with you for just a couple of minutes and ask you some questions.

Immediately.

You were like, absolutely.

You got on a call with me.

I talked to you about her.

You're like, I'm happy to connect her with students.

I'm happy to get on a call with her myself.

You just offered, offered, offered.

And then we kept talking, right?

The conversation obviously didn't stop there.

And that's really where our friendship stemmed from.

I was in need of help.

I raised my hand and said, Hey, I don't know if there's any way you can help.

And you were like, Hey, done.

Let's talk about how I can help.

Let's talk about how I can help you solve this problem, which you did.

And that really just shot our friendship off on a fast track.

Don't you agree?

A hundred percent.

And then you've shown up for me consistently.

You know, when I talk about friendship with people, I always use you as an example because

you are somebody who shows up at the most inopportune times.

And, you know, whether it's right before a TED talk to come to New York for a book launch party or whatever the case may be, my timing in asking you to do anything is always horrendous, but you always say yes and you just show up for people.

And that's so much of building really strong relationships is just showing up and knowing that you're going to be there.

I remember years ago, my wife Meg, who you know, who's going through a little bit of a situation, and I sent you a text, and literally, I barely hit send, and you called me.

So you just demonstrate all the time what a true friend means.

And it's just true friendships are an absolute blessing.

So true.

And thank you for saying that.

I feel the same exact way about you.

But you know, what's interesting is people, as you know, I have a very strong circle of friends from my entire life that I grew up with in Worcester, Massachusetts.

And you know, some of those people.

People say to me all the time, how do you have best friends for more than 30 years in your life?

And you just mentioned it.

all it really is it's simple you show up and so whenever someone's parent is passing away and they're having a funeral you go if someone the birth of a child like if there's these moments that people are raising their hands saying i need your help i need you to be here you show up you say this is a priority to me it might not be the easiest thing for your calendar at that time But when people matter and you show up for them, that means the world.

And you gave the example.

I had my TEDx talk and it was like like the day after your event.

And I went, I'm like, okay, I'm going to be there.

But you know what's funny?

Here's something interesting that I've learned recently.

I just got back from Saudi Arabia, as you know, and I have a really hard time with the adjustment on the back end.

And somebody asked me to come and speak at another event across the country two days later.

And I went and did it.

And I wasn't at my best.

And it's like one of those things.

You always, you want to be there all the time for people, but sometimes you have to say, I don't know.

I don't think I can make this one.

I think this one's pushing it a little too hard.

How do you know when the right times are to show up or to prioritize yourself?

How do you make that decision?

I mean, I try to show up as often as possible, but I think showing up doesn't have to be really dramatic.

Showing up is,

you know, showing up and supporting people on social media.

You know,

showing up could be celebrating them and their achievements.

So I love it when, you know, somebody knocks it out of the park because they just wrote a great book or did a great TED talk

or accomplished a milestone event.

Like I want to be the one bragging for them.

Even something as simple as an introduction, like when I introduce two people to each other, and one of the keys to introductions is they have to be mutually beneficial.

When you make mutually beneficial introductions, it's a golden opportunity to be that person's hype person.

So like, I'm not going to say, Heather, meet Bob, Bob, meet Heather.

I'm going to say, Heather, meet Bob, and then I'm going to tell you why Bob is amazing.

And then I'm going to tell Bob, hey, Bob, meet Heather.

And then I'm going to tell Bob why you're amazing.

So it's just a great opportunity that a lot of people just

miss those opportunities to celebrate the people that care for them.

So showing up doesn't have to mean jumping on a plane and flying cross country.

It could be something as simple as that.

One of the things that you do that I feel like is very unique and it makes such an impact and there's no jumping on a plane involved, you always take the time to send video messages on any celebration, any birthday, and on random Fridays.

And you are so, you're 1% of the population that does that, at least in my world, right?

It's shocking to me how rare people send a kind word of encouragement, a note on a DM on social, hey, thought about you when I saw this.

You are always that person.

You're always sending the kind notes, always, hey, I don't know what's going on with you right now, but I just want to tell you how much you mean to me.

I mean, it's unbelievable.

And the funny thing is, or I think this speaks to what you do, I save a lot of those on my phone in my favorite file because on any given day when someone's having a bad day, you want to go listen to your hype people speaking life into you.

And remember, like, I've got these great people on my network that are cheering for me all the time.

Okay, that puts a smile back on my face and can help me power through this.

So I think people underestimate what the power of sending a direct one-to-one message can have on them.

Don't you agree?

It's huge.

So I'm a big fan of handwritten notes and I'm a big fan of doing video birthday wishes and just random stuff.

I think one of the concepts that I think a lot about is I always want to be one of one.

So let's just take birthdays, for example.

I guarantee that you get

a gazillion LinkedIn happy birthdays.

And

you probably get, you know, a whole bunch of text and you get a whole bunch of this, but the number of happy birthdays that you get is probably a very small number.

So, I think in anything that you do, you always want to think like, how can I be one of one?

How can I show up where I'm the only person

that's doing this?

And sometimes it's not one thing, but it's the accumulation of multiple things that you do that you become the only person in the world who's doing this for that person.

And when you do that, when you're one of one, you stand out.

I mean, just think of it from a social media standpoint.

If I like a post of yours, I'm one of several thousand people that liked it.

If I comment, I'm now one of maybe a couple hundred.

If I share it, now I'm part of just a very, very small number.

So you just have to always be thinking of that concept, like, how can I show up for this person so that I'm one of one and that i stand out and that they know that i care about them

okay i know what some people are thinking right now they're thinking okay how does scott do this how do you scale that that sounds so hard and run a company and work and be with your family how do you do all of these things at set with so many people to sustain so many relationships?

I do a couple different things.

So one is I use my phone as my CRM.

So

all of the things that are important

to me, I have in my phone.

So significant others, kids, pets, addresses, cell phone numbers, birthdays, anniversaries, hobbies, it's all on my phone.

The reason why it's in my phone and it's not in Salesforce is I always have my phone.

And if I'm on a Zoom call like this, I can go on my phone, which is right here, and I can look up and I can say, you know, hey, I hope Dylan had a great basketball practice today.

You know, you got an opportunity to do that.

So part of it is maintaining those relationships is I have all the data, all the important things

in one spot.

That happens to be my phone.

And then with high impact relationships,

I have a method, I have a strategy to maintain those.

I call it my who's your Oprah list.

So it's my list of people who are the most impactful and have the most access because I truly believe that the more access you have, the more opportunity you have to do good things in the world.

And I use Oprah as the example.

Like, if anyone's phone rings anywhere in the world, they look down, they go, oh, it's Oprah Winfrey.

They're taking that call.

And so Oprah has tremendous access.

So

Gail King is Oprah's best friend.

So I know Gail King when she was a local TV anchor here in Connecticut.

And Gail King's ability back then to do things

was nothing in comparison to what her ability to do things is now as Oprah's best friend.

So access gives you opportunity.

And when you have a list of those people and you look at it every day, you can think, what can I do to pour into these people so that I can further this relationship?

So I'm very intentional.

about building those relationships.

Well, I guess I am doing a lot, but it's organized and it's structured.

There's actually a process to doing it.

Give us some examples of some of the things that you do.

I mean, I'm very familiar with it, but for everyone listening who has no idea what you mean by this, in addition to you're going to be sending text messages, you're going to send video messages.

What are some of the other things that you do for that list?

Yeah, I mean, it goes on and on.

Planned random texts are one of my favorite things to do.

So for instance, like, I'm going to wish you a happy birthday on August 14th every single year, but I would rather send you a message September 14th because you're probably not going to get anywhere near the volume.

So,

you know, planning those things out is something I do.

Or I believe in kind of being in the moment.

Like when I see something good, when I see something that I want to celebrate, I don't wait because I'm going to forget.

I do it immediately.

So that's why, you know, you've been the recipient, unfortunately, of some of this.

You get the me at 5 a.m.

on my treadmill.

I've got, you know, bedhead.

I got bags under my eyes.

You know, thank God, you know, I'm sure I'm not smelling great.

That that's not an issue.

But if I'm thinking about somebody in those moments, because I'm maybe seeing something that they accomplished on social media, I'm going to send a message.

I don't care what I look like.

And those things are

really appreciated.

And then,

you know, I love to gift things.

I'm a big gift giver.

And I think sometimes people get paralyzed about gifts because they think you have to spend a lot of money.

And in some cases, you should.

Like, if you're going to do something, make it best of class,

but it could be something that's just thoughtful.

So for instance,

Brandi Chastain is a good friend of mine.

So Brandi is a two-time World Cup champ, two-time Olympic gold medalist.

She's in the soccer hall of fame.

And you can't get anyone who's more into soccer.

So I was in the post office one day and I saw these U.S.

national women's soccer stamps.

So I bought a bunch of stamps and I bought stationery and I sent it to Brandy.

So, you know, the stamps and the stationery didn't cost me very much money, but the thoughtfulness behind it and now her ability, every time she sends a friend a note using that stationery and using those stamps, she's probably going to think, oh, you know, my friend Scott sent this to me.

So my good friend, the late John Rulin, who is devastating that he passed away.

If anyone ever wants to read a great book, read his book, Giftology.

He always said it's not the thought that counts, it's the thoughtful thought that counts.

And I think there's a lot of power in that.

Oh my gosh, it's so true.

It's so good.

And yeah, I love that idea of just taking the moment instead of to, you took a moment and you're like, oh, Brandy would love this.

Most people will just keep going on with their day, but to actually stop and pay for it and then send it to someone's house.

Just that act right there is so meaningful.

And I love that idea that you had, which is then when she's writing out notes to her friends and sending things out, she's thinking of you.

Like that just deepens the connection and makes that relationship so much stronger.

I absolutely love that.

Okay.

So how do you temper things when you want to ask someone for something?

Because people listening are going to say, okay, Scott's got all these great friends, but I want people to know Scott's got great friends that show up for him on the regular.

How do you know to and how do you balance?

You said that you don't want it to be an exchange of, you know, tit for tat or this for that.

It's a friendship.

Then how do you know when the right times are to ask people for something?

So there's a scale of asks.

And the way I think of it, it's like the scales of justice.

So every time I do something for somebody, every time I engage in their social media, send them a handwritten note, send them a video or whatever, I'm kind of putting something on my side of the ledger.

And eventually that scale tips like this.

And most of the time, you never have to ask for anything because at that point, the person is like, what can I do for you?

Most people, I call them assholes.

So

they are asking for stuff so early in a relationship.

It's like they just met somebody and they're like, can I pick your brain?

Can you be on my podcast?

Can you do this?

Can you do that?

It's like, you haven't earned that that yet.

You don't have enough chits on your side of the scale to ask.

So I only ask for things when I think the scale is in proportionately balanced in my favor.

And at that point, I will ask for something like, Heather, will you write the forward to my book?

If it's not, I'm never going to do it.

But most of the time, I don't even have to ask because people will come to me and say, you know, what can I do to help you out?

Because, you know, I've done things for them.

Well, a lot of the times when you ask for something, it's something that benefits me personally, anyways.

So, for example, writing, you know, a foreword in a book is, that's a, that's a big deal.

That's an honor, in my opinion, right?

So that's not a heavy ask.

You asking and you always ask ahead of time, hey, do you mind if I connect you with this person?

They want to be a guest on your show or whatever it may be.

You're always sending me incredible people that, of course, I would love to have them be again.

So I guess my point is, it's not like you're asking me to clean out your garage on a Saturday and Sunday, you know, with a pickup truck.

Like these are things that actually benefit my life.

And that's just, you know, too often people are like, oh, I'm afraid to ask my friend for this.

But if you're asking for something that actually could benefit them too, you might be surprised at how excited they're going to be by it.

I know that that's how I typically feel.

Whenever you ask me to do anything, I'm excited.

And that's so true.

I do, I will say, like, there are times when you have to shoot your shot and you just have to go for it.

But I think you have to be cognizant of the fact that that is going to be probably a transactional relationship and it's going to be just a drive-by friendship.

But if you have something,

you want somebody desperately to be on your podcast or something like that, then there are times when you're just going to shoot your shot.

But I view building true relationships as having no timeline.

So

I think the other important thing is never keep score.

So do not keep score, meaning I did this, I did this, I did this, I didn't get anything back.

Number one, it will drive you nuts.

And number two, you'll lose sight of the fact that you're actually playing a game that has no scoreboard and it has no clock.

So that's the way I view relationships.

There's no timeline.

I don't care if it takes six days, six weeks, or six years to build that friendship.

And sometimes that friendship is just a friendly friendship.

And other times it is a friendship like you and I have, which is a like ride or die.

Like, you know, Heather needs me to bury a body.

Like, I'll bring the shovel.

I was complaining about cleaning out the garage.

You're talking about burying bodies.

Thank you.

I appreciate you, my friend.

Okay, tell us a little bit about what was it that you, when you take a step back now from this massive community that you've built, the feedback on outliers is unfreaking believable.

I am always sending people to you because I'm like, listen, anytime someone says to me, I need to be a part of a community, this is the one.

It's incredible and everybody loves it.

Everyone has a great experience.

When you look at building this over the last couple of years, what are some of the keys to why it's so successful?

I think it's a group of not like-minded people, but like-hearted people.

So it's, I mean, it is, it's called the Outlier Project.

It's not the like we all think the same project.

So everybody thinks a little bit differently, but I think everybody in the community loves that.

Like they're looking for

divergent thoughts and they're looking to grow and learn by people that don't think or look like them.

So that's that's a big key.

I think just the structure of the Outlier Project is a little bit different in that everything we do is live and interactive.

So,

you know, if I bring you on as a top advisor, if I've, you know, we've done legend series with you and author spotlights with you in the past, I want people to be able to interact with you.

So I think it's that's an important distinction.

I love podcasts.

Yours is one of my favorites, but podcasts are not interactive.

It's a different experience when you get to ask Heather Monaghan, what do you do when you're about to go on stage in front of 100,000 people in Saudi Arabia and get that feedback and have those conversations.

So whether it's you or Leila or Rudy Rüdiger or Jesse Itzler or whoever, those are kind of cool experiences.

So we're trying to really create something that accomplishes two things.

Number one is help people develop really unique relationships with a very eclectic group of people and help people to have learning and development opportunities.

in an extremely unique way.

And I think we've accomplished both of those things.

And that probably is attributed to all the growth that we've had.

One of the things that I like about the Outlier Project is what you're saying, that you get access to all of these leaders, all of these personalities live in real time.

You get the community, but you also do in-person events.

And I have so enjoyed your in-person events.

Can you tell us a little bit about some of the Outlier Project in-person events that you do?

Yeah, so I think people crave in real life.

People, you know, they want to be together.

Like this Sunday, I'll be in Atlanta for an event for Culture City with Dominique Wilkins and a bunch of other outliers.

I think that's a really important component.

We try to do things that are really fun, whether that's skating in Rockefeller Center or, you know, in a few weeks, we'll be in San Jose, California to go to a soccer game with Brandi Chastain.

She owns a pro-women soccer team called Bay FC.

So we'll tailgate with her before the game, which is going to be a cool experience for people, you know, that have maybe only seen her on TV in the past.

We do humanity expeditions.

So we go to Nicaragua every year and we help rebuild schools on a mountain in a town called Matagalpa.

We just do a lot of really cool, unique things.

And that's been a big, big

component of the Outlier Project.

It doesn't have to be a soccer game, though, with Brandy Chastain.

It could be, you know, we were just in Charlotte.

We played mini golf in Charlotte and, you know, we had a blast.

We went bowling in Atlanta not that long ago and just had a fantastic time just being together.

So in real life stuff is another big component of the experience that we want people to have.

For anyone listening that is interested in becoming a part of your community, where do they go and how do they become part of Outlier Project?

Yeah, it's very simple.

They go to the outlierproject.live and joining, there is no application.

If you want to join, you literally just join.

It takes about 20 seconds and it's as simple as that.

Fortunately, I think because of the people we have in the community, we really have had no issues with

that.

And I've had two people that I've had to ask to leave.

in the two and a half years that we've been running it.

So pretty good track record.

So there's no need for an application.

So if people want to join, if people resonate with being an outlier, wanting to show up differently, wanting to take the path less traveled, knowing that that's easier when you're surrounded by 750 people who think that way, you know, it's a really fun experience.

It's an incredible experience.

I highly recommend check out the Outlier Project.

Your girl's a part of it for sure.

And I'm always sending my people to Scott because there is no one better that you want to get networked with, especially if you've been struggling on building a network, on getting deeper relationships.

This is the place to be.

Scott, how do people follow you?

How do they find you?

So, unlike you, I have not cracked the code on Instagram.

So, you can find me on Instagram and you'll see pictures of my wife and probably not much more than that.

But if you really want to get a hold of me, contact me on LinkedIn.

I think the key is please send me me a personal message just so i know why you want to be connected and that's the place to to go that's my definitely my social media platform of choice so linkedin is definitely uh the way to get a hold of me Oh, mine too.

I love it.

All right, guys, sign up for Outlier Project.

Follow Scott on LinkedIn.

And Scott, thank you so much for the work you're doing.

Thank you for making the world a better place.

And thank you for always uplifting me.

I appreciate you.

Thank you for being my friend, Heather.

Most importantly, it means the world to me.

Our friendship is something that I absolutely cherish.

So, thank you for being a friend and thanks for having me on.

You too.

You mean the world to me.

All right, guys, until next week, keep creating your confidence.

You know, I will be.

I decided to change that dynamic.

I couldn't be more excited for what you're going to hear.

Start learning and growing.

Inevitably, something will happen.

No one succeeds alone.

You don't stop and look around once in a while.

You could miss it.

I'm on this journey with me.