The Emotional Intelligence You Were Never Taught with Michelle Chalfant

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Speaker 2 Our emotions are our superpower. When we learn how to touch, and feel our emotions, they become our superpower.
It's where we gain our intuition. It's where we gain our needs.

Speaker 2 And we want to learn how to feel. And I'm going to say eight out of 10 people, when I would ask them, hey, what are you feeling? Like, tell me what's going on inside your body.

Speaker 2 They're like, I don't know. I feel angry.
Okay, what else? And man, when we start penetrating what's going on in the body, and I say dropping down below the chin, it's like penetrating the chin.

Speaker 2 Like, what's going on down here instead of here? Game changer. Game changer.
We try to solve everything. We go into our ego.

Speaker 2 We try to go into the mind and fix it and change things and make you change so I don't get so triggered. No, you got to go in the body.
And that's a key element of setting boundaries again.

Speaker 3 Come on this journey with me. Each week when you join me, we are going to chase down our goals, overcome adversity, and set you up for a better tomorrow.

Speaker 2 Last or no future, I'm ready for my close-up.

Speaker 3 Hi, and welcome back. I'm so glad you're back here with us this week.
Okay, here we go. We've got Michelle Chelfant, MSLPC.

Speaker 3 She's a licensed therapist, holistic life coach, and author committed to helping individuals break break free from limitations and discover their true selves.

Speaker 3 As the creator of the adult chair model, she combines simple psychology with grounded spirituality to inspire personal transformation.

Speaker 3 Her podcast, The Michelle Hoffan Show, Life from the Adult Chair, has over 10 million downloads, offering practical tools and relatable insights for overcoming your challenges.

Speaker 3 Michelle's new book, The Adult Chair, Get Unstuffed, Claim Your Power, and Transform Your Life, has just been released from Twin Random House and is available now.

Speaker 3 Michelle leads transformative events, retreats, and courses through the Academy of Awakening membership and trains others in her model via the Adult Chair Coaching Certification Program, where she's creating a new generation of coaches.

Speaker 3 Michelle, thank you so much for being here today.

Speaker 2 That's a mouthful. Thanks, Heather.

Speaker 3 An impressive background, that is for sure. All right, well, let's get into your new book because I'm so curious.
You know, a lot of people listen to the show

Speaker 3 because of work, because they're in corporate corporate America, they're an entrepreneur. But a lot of people, I'm learning more and more, also listen to just better themselves.

Speaker 3 And one of the things that your new book really gets into is this idea of boundaries. And I feel like boundaries are applicable as a parent.

Speaker 3 Boundaries are applicable and necessary for friendships, for work. for personal romantic relationships really through everything.

Speaker 3 So I was hoping you could start off talking a little bit about boundaries just in general.

Speaker 2 Yeah, for for sure. So boundaries is a word that scares people.

Speaker 2 You know, when I saw clients for many, almost 20 years, I would, when I would say to somebody, hey, I think that you might need to set a boundary,

Speaker 2 their response, I mean, almost every time was, well, I'm not a confrontational person. You know, I can't, I'm not going to say that.
Wait a minute.

Speaker 2 So I'd have to go into a definition of what the heck a boundary is. So a boundary simply teaches other people how we want to be treated, but it can also just be a simple request.

Speaker 2 Like, hey, I'd like you to pick me up a little earlier so we get to the party on time. It's just a simple request, but people are afraid.
They don't want to set them. They feel guilty.

Speaker 2 They feel overwhelmed. They don't know how to set them.
So yeah, so that's, that's all that a boundary is.

Speaker 2 But I find that people, you know, if we don't have modeling when we're growing up, as far as how to set boundaries or did you witness healthy boundaries in your life, we become adults and we don't know how to do it.

Speaker 3 How often is that the case versus where people like, do you know percentages or ballpark? Like how many people really do know how to set healthy boundaries versus those that don't?

Speaker 3 Because I will tell you, just thinking about this in business and parenting and in romantic, like for sure, it's definitely more challenging from where I sit right now.

Speaker 3 But I would imagine there's some people that are good at it.

Speaker 2 Of course, there are some people that are good at it, but I got to tell you, after doing this for over 20 years and working with people in live events, working with people in a private practice and membership, like all the places, more people than not are not great at boundaries.

Speaker 2 Now, let's talk about an entrepreneur. Let's talk about someone in business, a CEO, managing a big team.
They may set a boundary through yelling, through screaming, through threatening.

Speaker 2 Those aren't healthy boundaries. Those are confrontational ways of getting people to do something that you want them to do.
That's not a healthy boundary. It's not a healthy boundary.

Speaker 2 And that's how a lot of people think that boundaries go down and it's not, it's not healthy. It's not healthy.
So yeah, so yeah, people go, I can take care of myself.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, no, you don't need to do it like that.

Speaker 2 And it's not to say that boundaries need to be flowery, but a boundary might just be like, hey, Heather, you know, every week we go to this, or every month we go to the supper club, or we hang out with our friends on Friday nights.

Speaker 2 You always pick me up late. Can you please just pick me up early? Or, hey, I don't like when you talk about my hair or when we're, you know, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 You know, it could be anything but it's me speaking up for myself instead of going to other people talking about what I want you to do I got to go directly to you without yelling without screaming without threatening without being confrontational so I do find I mean

Speaker 2 I used to work with a lot of men and they'd say my boss did this to me or I realize I made so much so-and-so cry I'm like that's not a healthy boundary like let's talk about how we set healthy boundaries and it's uncomfortable it's uncomfortable If you've learned, because I like that example of, you know, threatening, raising your voice, yelling, I certainly, that's how I implemented boundaries at work for most of my business career, at least in corporate America for a long time.

Speaker 3 And you find some success with it, right? Like I did really well in business.

Speaker 3 However, it's interesting now at 50 years old to reflect back on my life and say, all right, I still haven't done a great job setting healthy boundaries in my personal relationships, but I'm able to do it at work better now, right?

Speaker 3 Because I'm for whatever reason, now it's been easier for me to like observe. I don't need to yell at people.

Speaker 3 I can do it in a calm way and I can hold people to task, even though they're not going to like it, which I've gone through that in the last couple of years.

Speaker 3 They don't like it, but you know, I'm going to say, this is, you know, what's acceptable for me and this is what I need you to do in order to work together.

Speaker 3 And so I've learned how to do that in a pretty healthy, direct way and have success in business. However, it's still challenging and personal.

Speaker 3 And here's why, is that in my mind somewhere, I still think of boundaries as confrontation.

Speaker 3 And when you love people, and whether it be your best friend or your boyfriend or like whoever it is that you have all this love for, that you

Speaker 3 genuinely feel bad

Speaker 2 being

Speaker 3 like, I can hear myself right now, the heavy hammer. So how do you speak to someone that struggles with that in their personal life?

Speaker 3 How do you get them to understand that it isn't a confrontation or a need?

Speaker 2 I want to back up because it's what I find that we are not in touch with are our true needs. So really, what is the need? We go right into, I want you to stop that.

Speaker 2 But if I say to you, hey, this really makes me feel uncomfortable, would you please stop? I'm sharing with you what I need because it feels this way.

Speaker 2 That's very different than just, again, hammering that boundary in. You know what I mean? Oh my God, I lost your question.

Speaker 2 I'm thinking about, because when you were talking, the whole time you were talking, I was like, we're really out of touch with our knees and it feels uncomfortable. I think that was your question.

Speaker 2 Why is it feels so uncomfortable? Again, we don't know how to do it. Who taught you? Who did you witness when you were growing up? Did you witness anyone that set these healthy boundaries with you?

Speaker 2 Or did you see, again, I don't know what your family was like growing up, but for me, my mom just didn't say anything. And when she tried, maybe my dad didn't listen.

Speaker 2 So she was ignored and then she just stopped. So then you go with the flow.
And my mom would share with me how mad she was at my dad. I'm like, so unhealthy, right?

Speaker 2 But my mom was doing the best that she could, but that's how we are raised. So then we become adults and it's like, well, how am I supposed to say that? I don't know what I'm doing.

Speaker 2 So then I become like my mom did or like my dad did with me, which is, I'm just going to sweep it under the carpet. I'm going to make an excuse for you and say, you didn't mean it.
It's okay.

Speaker 2 I'm just going to blow it off. I'm going to brush it off.
No big deal. It's not healthy.
It's draining. It builds resentment.
It builds internal anger toward that other person.

Speaker 2 And that resentment, although we have a smile on our face, but that resentment builds and builds and builds.

Speaker 2 and that is then when we snap at people out of left field and like what's wrong with you having a bad day oh yeah no i don't know what's going on sorry it's hormones or it's whatever is going on but really it's a pile of resentment because you haven't been speaking up all these all this time oh that's so true and right okay so where do people begin i know that you teach a six-step method where do you suggest people to start when they're learning because obviously most of us at any age are just trying to learn how to actually implement boundaries in a successful positive way where should we start we got to start with oh my gosh okay

Speaker 2 we have to start again i go back to the needs like what do you exactly really need i know i don't like what you're doing something feels off in my body when you showed up like that when you acted like that when my team acted like this it made me mad but here's the thing anger is actually a defense Think about it.

Speaker 2 If I'm mad at you and I start yelling at you, you're either going to come back at me with more anger or you're going to shut down and do what I I want you to do.

Speaker 2 So anger is a great emotion, but can also be used as a defense to get you to do what I want you to do. Unhealthy boundary again.

Speaker 2 So what we want to do instead is really get in touch with what are you doing or what when I look at what you're doing or when I experience what you're doing, what does it make me feel?

Speaker 2 Again, this is not like airy, fairy, or mushy. It's like, gosh, you know, it really makes me feel like I'm not seen or I'm not heard or I'm invisible.

Speaker 2 So we want to start with getting in touch with what the heck I'm feeling. And then I share that with you.
I share that piece with you.

Speaker 2 Like, hey, Heather, I realize, you know, when you treat me that way, I feel invisible. It makes me feel invisible.
Can we have a conversation about this? Can you please stop?

Speaker 2 Can you please stop saying that to me? So we don't know what we feel. We know to use just anger or we sweep it under the carpet.
And we need to find that other way.

Speaker 2 And the third door is let's start getting in touch with really what's going on underneath the anger and dive a little bit into that resentment. Go, what the heck am I resentful for?

Speaker 2 Why are they irritating me? There's something in the irritation.

Speaker 2 And we need to learn how to turn toward the thing that's irritating us, the thing that's making us resentful, that person, that thing, get in touch within ourselves as far as what's going on.

Speaker 2 And then we share that. And that goes back to even deeper, Heather.

Speaker 2 We don't know what we're feeling.

Speaker 2 Our emotions are our superpower. I look at high, I used to work with high-powered CEOs.
I worked with movie stars. I worked with people that were in, when I lived in Nashville for 13 years.

Speaker 2 I had big executives come in. I had all kinds of people that would come in.
When we learn how to touch and feel our emotions, they become our superpower. It's where we gain our intuition.

Speaker 2 It's where we gain our needs. And we want to learn how to feel.
And I'm going to say. eight out of 10 people when I would ask them, hey, what are you feeling?

Speaker 2 Like, tell me what's going on inside your body. They're like, I don't know.
I don't know. I feel angry.
Okay, what else?

Speaker 2 And man, when we start penetrating what's going on in the body, and I say dropping down below the chin, it's like penetrating the chin. Like, what's going on down here instead of here?

Speaker 2 Game changer. Game changer.
We try to solve everything. We go into our ego.
We try to go into the mind and fix it and change things and make you change so I don't get so triggered.

Speaker 2 No, you got to go in the body. And that's a key element of setting boundaries again.

Speaker 3 So that's really about tuning into yourself and hearing what really is triggering you, bothering you, and underneath the maybe surface anger.

Speaker 2 Triggers are one of my favorite things to talk about. And here's why.
Triggers reveal

Speaker 2 our

Speaker 2 unknown or unconscious beliefs about ourselves. So if,

Speaker 2 like we just said, like what?

Speaker 2 Yeah. So.

Speaker 2 If here it is, if I trigger you, if I say something or do something or don't say or do something, whatever it might be, I don't care who it is outside of you.

Speaker 2 What is actually happening is there's a belief inside of you that's rising up and it's presented to you almost on a silver platter if you're willing to look.

Speaker 2 And that belief, and we all, every single human has these beliefs. Everybody does.
And here's what's crazy. They're formed usually by the age of three to six at the latest.
We all have

Speaker 2 something like, I'm not lovable, I'm not good enough, I'm bad, I don't matter, I'm not seen, nobody listens to me. We all have that.

Speaker 2 Now, maybe I have a deeper feeling of I'm not lovable and you may have I'm bad more. Again, we're all a little different in that way, but we've all got that, those beliefs.

Speaker 2 We don't know what they are because they're not in the conscious mind. They're sitting in the unconscious mind.
The reason they're in the unconscious mind, who the hell wants to feel them?

Speaker 2 So we, when we're little, we drop them down into the unconscious mind. So when we're triggered, those beliefs are rising up within us.

Speaker 2 And if we're willing to take a look at what it is that is rising up within us, we actually can start healing and turning those beliefs around.

Speaker 2 And then we stop getting so triggered. We stop getting so angry.
We stop having so much emotional dysregulation. We can start having more ease in our bodies.
We have more peace.

Speaker 2 We have more happiness. But most people, what happens is when they get triggered, they blame the person that is triggering them.
They yell at them, they get pissed, they tell them off,

Speaker 2 and they go tell all their friends, like, can you believe so-and-so did that to me?

Speaker 2 All the things. And then all the friends and family validate you.

Speaker 2 And that beautiful belief that was sitting right there for you to look at, for you to transform, drops down below the surface back into the unconscious mind, and it just sits there again.

Speaker 2 So instead, what we want to do is get curious about what the heck is coming up for me that is mine and start working on that belief. Triggers are

Speaker 3 getting curious, just so adult, right? Reacting and responding with emotion, like you said, based off our subconscious or past behavior or whatever it may be is much more childlike becoming a grown.

Speaker 3 evolved adult, which I'm not saying is easy at all, definitely on that path. Some days, some days, not so much.
But when you come from a place of curiosity, you know, wait a minute, hmm, I'm confused.

Speaker 3 Why am I acting like this right now? And it's interesting when you were explaining that, I was thinking about a dynamic years ago in corporate America. I was in a toxic work environment.

Speaker 3 And a woman that I worked alongside with triggered me all of the time.

Speaker 3 And I would put me in a tailspin. And I would tell everybody about, you know, you know, how awful she.
And everyone, of course, would agree because she was terrible, but it didn't fix anything, right?

Speaker 3 it just created more upset more angst more of a toxic environment i stayed working in the environment right which is even crazier but it's so interesting now to think of i didn't approach it from a place of curiosity i definitely approached it from a place of pointing a finger out instead of pointing the finger within yeah and it's not about and i love that you said that that's a great classic example.

Speaker 2 But when people are pointing the finger within, I really want to stress this point. It's not about judging yourself ever.
It's about looking inward with curiosity. That's all it is.

Speaker 2 Like, huh, I wonder what this is, what's going on here. I remember years ago, I was working with a group of people and there was a girl that had, a woman that had, she was a nurse.

Speaker 2 She'd been a nurse for 15 some years. And the nurse, the charged nurse, the main nurse on the floor, she said, she goes, she's such a bitch.
I can't stand her. She irritates me.

Speaker 2 And you're telling me this is mine. I said, I sure am.
I'm telling you, this is all yours. Because here's the thing.

Speaker 2 People can do mean things. Let me clear this up.

Speaker 2 If you do something, if I'm waiting for a parking spot, I'm going to Whole Foods or something, and I'm waiting for this parking spot and you come ripping in in your car and you take my spot, I'm going to be angry.

Speaker 2 You're going to be like, what the hell? I've been sitting here for five minutes. Like, why are you taking my spot?

Speaker 2 If I go in Whole Foods and I'm still thinking about it 15 minutes later, that's a trigger.

Speaker 2 So if you carry it with you and you can't stop thinking about it, you can't stop talking about it, that's a belief that's rising up to the consciousness saying, hey, you want to work with me or not?

Speaker 2 But sometimes we're just angry because someone does something mean. But if there's no trigger, if there's nothing to work with, you kind of forget about it and you move on.

Speaker 2 But let me get back to the story. So this woman came up in front of the, she got up on stage with me and I said, okay, what's going on?

Speaker 2 Anyway, I'm not going to bore you with all the details, but it was so fascinating because she had a coworker there with her.

Speaker 2 And she says, I have to admit, she's like this nurse manager or charge nurse or whatever she was, whoever managed the floor, she goes, she's horrible to everybody.

Speaker 2 She goes, I'm telling you, I just think it's her. And I said, if you didn't have a belief around whatever she's making you feel, she wouldn't bother you.

Speaker 2 I'm telling you right now, she wouldn't bother you. And so I worked with this girl up on stage and she said,

Speaker 2 what came out of it was this nurse was making her feel unseen. and discounted.

Speaker 2 And it went back to how her stepmother made her feel when her father married her stepmother when she was seven, six or seven years old. And she sat up on stage with me, she was sobbing.

Speaker 2 Because I said, how does this woman, it took, I'm not kidding you, Heather, five or 10 minutes to get to the root of it. I mean, this stuff doesn't take long.

Speaker 2 We just aren't used to going inside and looking. And I said, you know, what is coming up for you when you think about this nurse, this charge nurse, how does it make you feel? Well, I angry.

Speaker 2 She's a bitch.

Speaker 2 I said, go under it, go under it, go under it, go under it. And we can hit the root.
I'm discounted. I'm not seen.

Speaker 2 I said, who does that make you feel like? Or who does that make you think of? And she said, my stepmother. I said, feel that.

Speaker 2 She felt that. She was sobbing, sobbing, sobbing, sobbing.
And she says, I'm discounted. Nobody loves me.
My father does not defend me. My stepmother is like a monster.
She's horrible. I said, okay.

Speaker 2 So is it true that in the body you are today? And I don't remember. She might have been in her 40s or something like that.
She was, she was probably in her 40s.

Speaker 2 And she said, I said, is it true that you are still discounted? And this is how you do a trigger.

Speaker 2 You go through and you ask yourself today, in the year, whatever year it is today, is this still true that you are whatever you're feeling, unseen, unknown, unlovable, all the things.

Speaker 2 And she says, well, no, I'm not discounted. You know, I'm married.
My husband loves me. My kids love me.
And her best friend was there with her. And she goes, And my best friend loves me.

Speaker 2 And I turned to her best friend. I go, does she, do you love her? She says, I adore her.
I said, okay. I said, no, feel that to the woman on stage.
I said, feel that emotion. What does that feel like?

Speaker 2 She goes, no, I'm not discounted anymore. I said, okay, what are you instead? I said, feel the answer.
Don't think it. Feel it.
She says, I'm really accepted by so many people.

Speaker 2 Really have a lot of people that love me. I said, feel that.
When you feel something versus thinking it, it anchors a new belief in your system.

Speaker 2 Oh my God, Heather. I can still see this lady.
This was like a five-week course I was teaching. She leaves.
She feels fine. And she goes, well,

Speaker 2 the rubber will meet the road when I go back to work. She goes, I'm going back to work in two days.
I said, okay, cool.

Speaker 2 I kid you not. This woman goes back to work.

Speaker 2 She looks at that charge nurse. She has no angst, nothing.

Speaker 2 And I think when I was doing this course, it was many, like 10, 15 years ago. I remember her, maybe it was like a week or two before we met again.

Speaker 2 She comes back and her friend came in with her and she goes, I'm not kidding you, Michelle. She actually likes the charge nurse.
She goes, she hated her. She goes, I hated this woman for years.

Speaker 2 She goes, I actually like her now. She goes, there's nothing there.
And I said, yeah, because the trigger is gone.

Speaker 2 So that's the power of this work, that most humans don't walk around this planet understanding that these beliefs are within them. And when we work with them, that's how quickly we can transform.

Speaker 2 I have the whole trigger process in the adult chair book. Like I break it down so simply.
All you got to do is plug in whatever your issue is, and I promise you, you can transform it.

Speaker 2 It is that simple. I've done this for 20 years now.
It's that easy. No joke.

Speaker 3 And there's not anyone that you can't help with this.

Speaker 2 Nobody. I'm not kidding you, Heather.
It's that easy. But we,

Speaker 2 again, how many of your friends and family, how often do people call you and go, Heather, you're not going to believe what happened?

Speaker 2 Do they ever say,

Speaker 2 hey, so-and-so got really pissed at me. We just had an argument.
Heather, can you just sit and listen and help me find whatever that belief is within me? I think there's something inside of me.

Speaker 2 Most people don't do that, right? But what I'm hoping for is this like big paradigm shift around this because we need to.

Speaker 2 It is empowering and it transforms our lives and it creates emotional stability and it helps us to set better boundaries. All the things, all the things.
But we don't know how to do that.

Speaker 2 Well, we weren't taught. We're not taught that kind of stuff in school, for God's sake.
We were taught AP physics, but we don't know how to handle our lives.

Speaker 2 You know, we don't know how to manage lives. But honest to God, Heather, it is that simple.
The process is simple.

Speaker 2 Again, when people start doing it, they're like, well, you know, I feel like I'm hating myself. And I, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we're not hating ourselves.

Speaker 2 We're getting curious about what's going on in here. That's what we're doing.

Speaker 2 That's all we're doing.

Speaker 3 It's a different line of questioning.

Speaker 2 Totally. That's it.
And people are blown away. They're like, oh my God, I was so angry, but when I went under the anger, I didn't know that it was because I was feeling not lovable.

Speaker 2 I've never had that conscious thought in my whole life.

Speaker 2 Yet I've been walking around my whole life, obviously picking partners, picking jobs, avoiding boundaries, all the things, because I'm walking around feeling like I'm unlovable. I had no idea.

Speaker 2 Everything exists, or let me say this, 90 to 95% of how we live is based on the programming in the subconscious mind. We don't even know it.
We know what's just going on up here.

Speaker 2 5% to 10% is the conscious mind. It's the tip of the iceberg.
The iceberg is where the meat is. It's no different than we program our phones, we pull apps up.
We got all these outdated apps.

Speaker 2 We'd have to update things. That's all that it is.
Did we just need updating?

Speaker 3 So just to recap, we need to get curious about what's underlying, what's triggering us, triggering us to begin with.

Speaker 3 Let's start asking more questions questions around what's underlying the anger the upset the fear whatever it may be get to that root problem question not blaming ourselves but again trying to understand where it stems from and then challenge that to see if that's a truth today yep you're dropping down you dropped if you think about your beliefs or emotions being stacked The first one is anger.

Speaker 2 Let's just pretend. Like, okay, I'm angry that that person said or did that to me.
Okay,

Speaker 2 great. What might be under the anger? Just get curious.
Like, what is it? And then people go, oh, that's so weird. I'm feeling like a loser.
I don't, where'd that come? Or I'm feeling frustrated.

Speaker 2 Okay, what's under the frustration? Well, what's under that? And what's under that? And then you'll find your way to the root or the bottom.

Speaker 2 And you'll say to yourself, oh my God, I really feel like I'm unlovable. It's so weird that I'm feeling that way.
And then you ask yourself, is this a familiar feeling from the past? Right?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. You know what? When my father left, when I was five years old, my father died, my father left, my mother had cancer and was in the hospital all the time.
I felt really abandoned.

Speaker 2 And I realized this feeling that I'm having right now because of my boyfriend breaking up with me or my husband leaving me or whatever it is is reminding me, the feeling I'm having right now is reminding me of what I felt when my father left when I was five.

Speaker 2 Wow. Okay, cool.
There's the root. Feel it.
We're not great at feeling our emotions, like I said before. Like we're not great at getting in the body and actually feeling what's going on.

Speaker 2 Then you ask yourself, okay, is it still true today that I'm unlovable? In 2025, is it still true today? And some people will look at me. I remember writing to my clients and go, yes, it is.

Speaker 2 Okay, really? Okay, so does anybody love you? No, nobody loves me. Does your dog love you? Yes.

Speaker 2 There's an energy that does love you. There's a dog that loves you.
So you can't say that. So how does it, yes, my mother loves me, my best friend, whomever it is.
So let's say it's your best friend.

Speaker 2 Okay, feel that. How do you know that they love you? Oh, they're there for me.
They treat me well, yada, yada. Okay, cool.
Can you allow yourself to feel that?

Speaker 2 What does that feel like in the body? We want to drop everything below the body. When we drop chin down, that's where everything changes.
Most humans try to navigate life, what I call chin up.

Speaker 2 It's very head-based. Nothing changes in the head.
Nothing changes.

Speaker 2 When we say, I'm just going to stop doing that, you can't stop doing that. We live based on programs, right?

Speaker 2 So if the program is saying, you name it, like I'm never going to work out, I hate working out. It's really hard to go work out, right? Or exercise sucks.

Speaker 2 You can't do that mentally, or you might do it for like a week or two, and then you go back to like, screw it, I'm not working out. I don't want to do it anymore.
You got to change the program.

Speaker 2 That's the limiting belief. When you change those, everything changes.

Speaker 3 Meet a different guest each week.

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Speaker 1 I asked you to try to find your passion.

Speaker 3 This is interesting. And I don't know exactly how this pertains, but it's coming up for me.
So I want to share it with you. I was at this dinner with a bunch of women that I did not know.

Speaker 3 One of the women I knew very well, but I didn't know anyone else. Anyhow, I end up sitting next to Miss World, literally the most beautiful woman in the entire world.

Speaker 3 And then one of my dearest friends is on the other side. We were talking about relationships and I bring up a guy that I've been dating and what's going on.

Speaker 3 My dear friend knows the whole situation very well. This other woman has no clue, right? And we don't know her at all.

Speaker 3 And so my dear friend is much like me, a lot of baggage, like working through it now in life, trying to figure it out. I don't know this other woman.

Speaker 3 And so turns out she's very happily married, very mature, and but we don't know. We're sitting there.
And so my friend and I are laughing like, this is just crazy.

Speaker 3 Listen to what's happening, you know, justifying a situation that I'm talking about in my personal romantic life and questioning it and challenging it and saying like, this is awful and judging it and, you know, just making comments about it.

Speaker 3 And it was so interesting. She stopped both of us and said, huh, what about the idea of just coming from a place of unconditional love and acceptance? And my friend and I were like, what?

Speaker 2 What are you talking about?

Speaker 3 Like, what is that? I don't even understand what you're talking about.

Speaker 3 That immediately, my mind immediately went to my child, which is, I come from a place of unconditional love and acceptance all the time with my child.

Speaker 3 So much so that that's right where my brain went to. And it was really hard to understand what she was saying because for me, that's been the example of unconditional love and acceptance in my life.

Speaker 3 And so I had to ultimately say that to her. And then my friend jumped in and said, because she's not crazy like us, Heather.

Speaker 3 We're trying to protect ourselves all the time and out of fear. And she's more mature than us.
So, how does that, how do boundaries play into that into love, unconditional?

Speaker 2 Like, how does that all work?

Speaker 2 Which part?

Speaker 2 How does which part work?

Speaker 3 The whole thing to me, it seems so simple to wrap my arms around the idea of unconditional love, acceptance, no fear, and creating boundaries with my child.

Speaker 3 But in romantic relationships, much more challenging, not so challenging for business.

Speaker 3 It's just interesting to me, the dichotomy of like, we're the same individual and person can understand one area very clearly and then have a great eric we're here and then really say this part's harder for me.

Speaker 2 Yeah, for sure. Well, our romantic partnerships bring up so much of our stuff.
It's a playground for just working on our personal wounding. So you said you had a child, right?

Speaker 2 And it's easier to set boundaries with your child.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 They're not going to leave you. They're not going to go anywhere.
They're yours. They belong to you.
Your partner is not someone that may stay. They may go.
They may leave you.

Speaker 2 So that in itself, there's fear present.

Speaker 2 There's fear present, right? There's, uh-oh, can I trust that you're going to stay? I don't know. Can I trust that? I would look again at what's coming up for you at the idea.

Speaker 2 We can do it right now if you want. Like what's coming up for you at the idea of setting boundaries or sharing your reality with your partner, with this guy? Is it a guy you're dating?

Speaker 2 I I mean, you're not, you're not engaged or anything. It's just someone you're dating, right? Okay.
So, what comes up for you at the idea of becoming more vulnerable with them, him, right now?

Speaker 2 Like, what comes up for you? Like, opening up a little bit more, just a little bit more, and sharing a little bit more. What comes up? What feeling inside? What thoughts? Fear of

Speaker 2 being left.

Speaker 2 There it is.

Speaker 2 Fear of being left. Okay.
Do you want to do this?

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. I'm always open to do anything.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Let's go, girl. So fear of being left.
So where does that show up in your body when you think about, I'm afraid of being left?

Speaker 3 In my heart.

Speaker 2 What's it feel like?

Speaker 3 Painful.

Speaker 2 How do you know?

Speaker 2 It hurts.

Speaker 2 So if your heart could speak, what would it say to you? Give it a voice. Let it.
So it's sad.

Speaker 2 That's like a sad, that's a sad conversation.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So fear of being left. Who's afraid of being left? So let yourself answer that question.

Speaker 2 If you realize that you are actually a collection of parts, all different ages that are existing within us. You got your little inner child part.
You've got a teenager part.

Speaker 2 You've got an adult part and everything in between, zero to

Speaker 2 however old you are today. So who or what part of you is saying to you, I'm afraid of being left? What age comes up for you when you think about that?

Speaker 3 Little, a child.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
Like zero to six.

Speaker 3 Like four. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like four years old. Okay.

Speaker 2 Was, was she left when you were four?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. For sure.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So are you able to see her or hear her? Like when you think about little you, this four, this little you. I see an image.

Speaker 2 You see an image. Okay.
Where is she?

Speaker 3 She's so cute. She's in a hospital.

Speaker 3 i have to shave myself i was a pretty cute kid so she's in the hospital doing what

Speaker 3 she's having her appendix out wow okay so so keep going so when did she feel like she was afraid of being left around that experience there's so many when my mother left my biological father when my mother left me at my grandparents house when like my mother was gone all the time working three jobs like we were left many many times oh okay

Speaker 2 I'm going to ask you a question. So, go with the first thought that comes to you.
Ready?

Speaker 2 What's the earliest memory you have of being left?

Speaker 3 My mother leaving my father. So, really, it felt like my father leaving us.

Speaker 2 So, your mother left your father, and it felt like your father leaving you. Great.
Do you get an image of the little girl that feels this way?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay. Is she still in the hospital or somewhere else?

Speaker 3 In the house. Okay.

Speaker 2 What is she doing?

Speaker 1 hiding okay

Speaker 2 can you be you the woman you are today the mother you are today right who's i don't know i'm going to make it up because i don't know you but strong solid and unconditionally loving would you say you are yeah check check and check perfect go if you can in your mind's eye just imagine being with that little four-year-old you that's in the house and her mother left your father, but it felt like your father left.

Speaker 2 Just go be with her. Do you see yourself in the house? Yes.
Okay. Does she see you, the woman you are today, and the adult you are today?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 So, in your mind, just say to her, I'm here. I'm not going anywhere.
I love you. And I'm the grown-up version of you.

Speaker 3 Oh, that's so nice.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 That hits my heart.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And what happens next?

Speaker 2 Well, she's so happy.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So ask her what she needs. Just

Speaker 2 if you want to kneel, imagine yourself kneeling down or getting on the floor with her and just say to her, little darling, or whatever you want to say to her, what do you need?

Speaker 2 I know how you're feeling. What do you need?

Speaker 2 And then what does she say back? Just go with the first thought that comes to you.

Speaker 3 To be held, to feel safe.

Speaker 2 Great. So go ahead and hold her.
So imagine yourself holding her and say, I'm here. I will never leave you.

Speaker 2 I will never leave you.

Speaker 2 And I'm safe with you. I will create safety.
Whatever words she needs here, go ahead and say that to her.

Speaker 2 And then what happens next?

Speaker 3 She's happy.

Speaker 2 So ask her if she'd like to come with you to where you live right now.

Speaker 2 Oh, heck yeah.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 imagine, just imagine beaming yourself here, like, like way in the old days, like the Jetsons. You just go bling, and there you are.
You know, magic.

Speaker 2 We can take her from that house where you grew up and bring her to where you are right now.

Speaker 2 And she can just go off in your bedroom and say, I'm just going to finish this podcast interview, and I'll be with you.

Speaker 2 And here's some whatever, crayons or whatever she wants to play with, paper, and give her a little puppy or a cat or something to play with, and say, I love you so much. I'm so happy you're here.

Speaker 2 I promise you, I will never leave you.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's such a good feeling.

Speaker 2 So, what happens to your heart now?

Speaker 3 My heart feels full.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So if you were my client, I would say to you, this is now the work moving forward. This is your homework.
Continue to check in with her.

Speaker 2 Continue to check in with her because at the root of you connecting with a partner has been in the past, not now. We just did this work.
You just did beautiful work. So I want to say thank you.

Speaker 2 I know it was a vulnerable thing. But at the root of you attempting to have a healthy relationship with another human was, I have a fear of being left.

Speaker 2 How in the world are you going to connect with someone authentically, unconditionally?

Speaker 2 And how are you going to attract someone in that can actually connect with you in a deep way if you've got that belief?

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's so interesting because, and this is work that I've been doing that's separate from this, this is super enlightening, but I've been doing different work around like feminine and masculine energy and finding out that a lot of having masculine energy is just to protect yourself from people.

Speaker 3 So you're attracting more of what you don't want and who you really aren't.

Speaker 3 And so it's so, and I wanted to talk to you about that, but now it's kind of all coming together and making sense that you're not really showing up and being that authentic version of who you are if your whole life is around protecting yourself.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. You've got walls.
You're showing up in a relationship with walls.

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 that little kid inside of you has been trying to protect yourself from being left.

Speaker 2 So I don't know what you're like in relationships. We don't have to keep going here, but just knowing that,

Speaker 2 think about how you then show up in relationships. Like, is there anxiety? Is there like, oh my God, they're going to leave me? Ask yourself this.

Speaker 2 What do I do that's not authentic in order to make sure they don't leave? Do I not say things? Do I not set boundaries? Do I get too clingy?

Speaker 2 Do I, and this is, again, this is a very general thing that humans just do.

Speaker 2 If I've got an abandonment, I'm just going to if i generalize this if it's an abandonment wound which i would get say that you have in some way again i don't want to not use the words that you use or being left it's like i'm going to manipulate and this sounds like a bad word but it's not i'm going to manipulate and control the relationships out there that i have because i'm trying not to get left

Speaker 2 so it's not a bad thing I don't want you to, for a second, to judge yourself, but you're trying not to get left. There's a part inside of you that is programmed to be left.

Speaker 2 So then, what happens is the ego builds parts around that little vulnerable child and says, I will make sure that you never get left.

Speaker 2 I'm going to make sure that so-and-so calls me all the time or texts me all the time, or I know where they are, you know, whatever it is. I don't know what you do, but this is a general thing.

Speaker 2 A lot of humans will do this in relationships, but they're being driven by this little kid inside that's afraid to be left.

Speaker 3 Wow. And it's shocking how that bleeds over into work relationships, into friendship.
I mean, I can just like think of immediately so many different situations.

Speaker 2 It affects your entire life.

Speaker 2 Everything you do.

Speaker 3 Meet a different guest each week.

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Speaker 1 I ask you to try to find your passion and your mission.

Speaker 2 I remember working with this guy and oh my gosh, he just wanted to be wanted. That was his core wound.
He was an unplanned pregnancy, right? So his mother had him out of wedlock, had him.

Speaker 2 He was not wanted.

Speaker 2 And he spent his whole life in relationships with women overdoing, over everything.

Speaker 2 And he was Mr. Nice Guy.
And I said to him, you've got to show up authentically. So we had to go in and work with that little boy.
I love interchild work.

Speaker 2 We went in and worked with that little boy and helped him to get unstuck because he didn't feel wanted do you think he set boundaries do you think he spoke up for himself hell no he was mr nice guy so i said you can't even show up authentically in relationships i don't care if it's at work or not he had issues with his boss he couldn't speak up because he was so afraid of getting fired of again not being wanted not being nice but when we went in and worked with that little boy

Speaker 2 and actually worked with him feeling wanted and knowing like, okay, you can repair that wound. We can reparent any part of ourselves.
You just reparented your little girl.

Speaker 2 And the more you do the homework and check in with her for 30 seconds to a minute a day or every other day, just say, hey, little sweetheart, or whatever word you want to use.

Speaker 2 Hey, little Heather, I'm here. I love you.
I'm still here. I'm not going anywhere.
That little part of you is going to learn, I'm not left. I'm safe, actually.
I love it here.

Speaker 2 This part is checking in with me. This adult, Heather, I like her.
I love her. I feel good.
I'm not going to be left. I guarantee you, and I guarantee it 100%.

Speaker 2 You will attract in someone different, or maybe you'll stay with this person. You will speak up for yourself.
You will be happy. You will be more relaxed in relationships.

Speaker 2 Your whole world will change. Again, we're changing the inner programming, that limiting belief that is walking and inside of you that you're walking around with all day, every day.

Speaker 2 It's crazy. But this guy, once we worked with that little boy, oh my God, he went from not being able to speak up, but he was a badass at work.
I'm talking like president of sales.

Speaker 2 Like he was amazing. Couldn't speak up.
He was amazing. He then changed, everything changed.
He became the CEO. Like it went on and on.
It was amazing.

Speaker 2 And he changed who he even attracted in relationships because he was stronger. It was crazy.
That domino effect, you know? Right.

Speaker 3 That domino effect is one of the most interesting parts for me because, and I remember this even back. I was fired from my job where I told you I was working in a toxic environment, right?

Speaker 3 Didn't know, I would wasn't aware of it at the time. I just thought it was normal, you know, whatever.
Anyhow, I was accepted.

Speaker 3 And I was fired from that job. And it took a little bit of time to get my footing.
But once I did, I realized, wait a minute, I'm so much happier.

Speaker 3 Wait a minute, that whole situation was not healthy, actually.

Speaker 3 Wait a minute. And it helped me change on some level, limiting beliefs that I had.

Speaker 3 This idea that I wanted to start setting boundaries in business because I realized I hadn't before. Like I had some realizations.
And then it was within a year, I ended my engagement at the time.

Speaker 3 Like I changed how I felt about everything, like the domino effect that happened at that point in time in my life, seven years ago, like nothing I've ever seen before.

Speaker 3 And it was from getting out of one negative environment and then saying, hang on, like, what does this say about me? And like, what role did I have? And asking the curiosity questions, like you said,

Speaker 3 you know, really sitting with it and getting into it. And I didn't really have any help with it other than life, like help me, you know, and figuring that out.

Speaker 3 But there is such a domino effect that I want everyone who's listening to know this is so real.

Speaker 3 I've only seen it in that one aspect of my life, but hearing this right now from you just reminds me of it that.

Speaker 3 when you start stepping into who you're really meant to be and i think it's a journey for everybody at different times your life you're going to figure out different things but the more you really step into that real version of you which i learn more and more that version for me is love and openness and unconditional love.

Speaker 3 But I tried to hide it for so long, which, as you now know, because we just talked about it because of my childhood.

Speaker 3 The more I step into that, the more right people come to me, the more right clients come to me, the more better creative ideas come to me,

Speaker 3 the more you feel

Speaker 3 peace and without anxiety wherever you are, because suddenly you don't have to wear a mask. You don't even like, you don't even know that stuff's happening, but you just start living.

Speaker 3 And it's just, it's an incredible, but gosh, and I didn't realize all that could go back to boundaries as well.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. I love that.
And that is where I go into trusting everything that's happening. And everything is happening for us, not to us, right? When we say, why did this happen to me?

Speaker 2 Instead of why did this happen or possibly why did this happen for me? It takes us from victim to empowered. And you went there.
You went.

Speaker 2 to the empowered place and said, wow, look at all these beautiful things that happen.

Speaker 2 Again, this is not a religious thing, but I firmly believe that our soul is going to set us up for all these things so we can grow, so we can crack our masks and drop and shed those masks so that we can live more authentically.

Speaker 2 So when we get fired, when we get broken up with, when all these things that we think are quote unquote bad happen,

Speaker 2 ask yourself, I wonder why this happened for me.

Speaker 2 Because when we sit around saying, why did this happen to me? I don't know. We're so stuck in victim, you can't see your way out of it.

Speaker 2 Instead of why did, I wonder why this happened for me. You can even feel the energy of that.
It's like, wow, I feel empowered.

Speaker 2 It's not an invitation to judge anybody or especially yourself, but it's like, oh, I get it. Now I get it.
I needed to lose this mask. I needed a new job.
I couldn't even see it at the time.

Speaker 2 That was a toxic environment. I needed to get out of there and I wasn't leaving.
It happened for me. How perfect is that?

Speaker 3 Even though it doesn't feel like very perfect at the time, it certainly is a blessing. Much easier to see in hindsight for sure.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 So what else do we need to share with people? How about when a boundary doesn't go over well with someone, right? Because someone who's on this path like I am, right?

Speaker 3 That's saying, okay, now I'm going to go back to this relationship and I'm going to start implementing boundaries. Well, now you're treating somebody differently.

Speaker 3 There's a good chance they're going to kick back.

Speaker 2 How do you handle that? Yeah. Well, you asked a couple different questions.

Speaker 2 So one thing is when you are starting to set boundaries and you're not quite sure how it's going to go over, I suggest putting what I call padding.

Speaker 2 And I write about this all in the book, in the adult chair book. It's like we've had the boundaries, okay? So on either end of the boundary, I'm going to say,

Speaker 2 hey, Heather, I really love our friendship and I love that we can share everything with each other, which is why I want to talk to you about what happened last Saturday.

Speaker 2 I would love it if you would, da, da, da, da, da.

Speaker 2 So thank you so much for listening to me. I love our relationship.

Speaker 2 So it's like on the beginning and the end, it's like a sandwich sort of thing, you know, like in work when you're giving someone a review, it's like pro con, pro con.

Speaker 2 We want to sandwich it with some positive. So if you're in a partnership, you'd say, hey, I am learning a lot about you.
You're vulnerable.

Speaker 2 We need to learn how to get more vulnerable in our relationships and really share what's going on from our heart. Again, not Airy Fairy, it just is.

Speaker 2 But to say like, hey, I'm really working on boundaries. And I'd like to bring this into our relationship, but I want to learn how to do boundaries in a really healthy way.

Speaker 2 Would you like to join me in this process? Yeah, I want to become more healthy with you. Of course.
Okay, cool. So give me some grace because I'm going to be clumsy when I do it.

Speaker 2 I mean, think about a little kid learning how to walk. They're going to fall down.
We don't yell at that little kid when they're a year old. We give them grace.

Speaker 2 So when we're learning boundaries, we start with people that are safe or safer. And we let them know, I'm learning how to do this.

Speaker 2 And I want you, Heather, to be able to give me, to set boundaries with me. And I want to be able to do that with you.
This is a muscle we both need to work on. Yes, yes, cool.
All right, let's go.

Speaker 2 Here's one I'm going to set with you.

Speaker 3 So that's how we start setting boundaries where it might be uncomfortable i'm vulnerable i'm going to pat it i'm going to tell you again how great you are and how much i cherish our cherish our relationship and then i set the boundary i speak up for what i'm looking for for what i want oh i love that and yes the sandwich strategy works so well whenever in work as any type of leadership position you start with a compliment you address a challenge or potential solution that you have for someone that you're asking them to address and then you close again with a positive to help leave it on strong note.

Speaker 3 I never thought about applying that anywhere else, but it makes perfect sense to do when, like you said, you're starting guardrails for the boundaries when you're starting to put those in with someone new.

Speaker 3 That would be a lot more palatable and probably even easier to understand and stomach for somebody.

Speaker 2 Totally. And I say this: people typically, like, if I say to you, Hey, Heather, I need to talk to you later.
Are you around?

Speaker 2 How do you feel?

Speaker 3 You're like, oh, gosh, what did I do?

Speaker 2 Like, oh, crap.

Speaker 2 Michelle's so mad at me. It's like, or hey, Heather, or if I text you, which is worse, texting puts people in fight or flight.

Speaker 2 When my clients would come in and they're like, I'm just going to text so-and-so and let them know how I feel. I'm like, do not text.
You've got to do it over the phone or in person.

Speaker 2 You don't text boundaries over the phone. No, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 But if I say to you, hey, I need to talk to you later, you're like, oh, God, what did I do? I'm in trouble. Versus, hey, Heather, you know, I want to share with you, blah, blah, blah later.

Speaker 2 Are you free at four o'clock? Yeah, sure. So we really want to make sure that people are what I call putting down their swords and shields and doing the sandwich.
It takes the defenses down.

Speaker 2 It's like, hey, I just, I am, I, I, I've got some things I'm learning. I want to share them with you later today.
Are you free? You know, let's go out and have a coffee and we'll chit chat about.

Speaker 2 Are you free? Yeah, sure. And your defenses are down.
So the padding helps. you to drop your defenses if you and i are going to have a conversation

Speaker 3 yeah oh my gosh That's such excellent advice, Michelle. Listen, you are just chock full of solutions for people, changing people's lives.

Speaker 3 Okay, so everybody needs to know where can they find the adult chair?

Speaker 2 Yeah, go get the book. Just Google the adult chair.
Google the, or excuse me, Google, go to the adult chair website and you will see everything there is to know. I do live events.
I do online courses.

Speaker 2 The book is there. The book is at theadultchair.com forward slash book.
You can buy it anywhere in the world because I have a lot of people like outside of the U.S. that want the book.

Speaker 2 So you can get all those links there too. And yeah, this book has all of it in there.
It's got the triggers. It's got the boundaries.

Speaker 2 It's got everything that you need in order to live your life as a healthy adult. It's got inner child work.
Everything you and I did today is in the book.

Speaker 3 I mean, that's incredible. And really, the book is for anyone because everybody's got to find a way to put boundaries in place in every aspect of their life.

Speaker 2 Oh my God.

Speaker 2 We are trying to get this model model in schools

Speaker 2 because again, we, I mean, I know with my kids, I did the same thing. I'm like, you got to take the APs, you got to take the college credit in high school and all this crap.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, these kids are graduating from high school. They don't know how to emotionally regulate themselves.
When my boys were in high school, like their friends had so much anxiety.

Speaker 2 Everyone's on ADHD meds. It's like, what is going on? These kids are needing help.

Speaker 2 And so more importantly, the parents need to learn this, but also like give this book to kids because it's broken down so simply. Anybody can learn how to do this.
Anybody.

Speaker 2 But that's the problem is we don't know. Like I said, how do you set a healthy boundary? Who teaches this? We need to learn this in high school.

Speaker 3 Well, I'm so grateful you're doing the work you're doing. I'm so grateful for the book, for your podcast, for everything that you're doing to help make the world a better place.

Speaker 3 Thank you for creating the book. Thank you for creating it all.
And thanks for being here today, Michelle.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much for having me. It's been so fun.

Speaker 3 All right, guys. Until next week, keep creating creating your confidence.
You know, I will be.

Speaker 1 I decided to change that dynamic.

Speaker 1 I couldn't be more excited for what you're going to hear. Start learning and growing.

Speaker 3 Inevitably, something will happen. No one succeeds alone.

Speaker 3 You don't stop and look around once in a while.

Speaker 2 You could miss it.

Speaker 3 Come on this journey with me.