#503 Radical Self-Confidence + A Different Take on Perfectionism; Best of Lisa Bilyeu, Katherine Morgan Schafler, and Tania Lester

Hi, and welcome back. I can't wait for you to sink your teeth into today's incredible episode.
In honor of Women's Month, I'm bringing back three of your favorite conversations on the podcast with three unstoppable women, Lisa Bilyeu, co-founder of Quest Nutrition and Impact Theory, psychotherapist and author, Katherine Morgan Schapler, and Theta Healing practitioner, Tanya Lester, to bring you the very best of their insights on healing, confidence, and reimagining perfectionism as a source of your power. You'll learn how to build radical self-confidence, tap into your intuition, and align your body and mind for transformational growth.
Together, we'll say goodbye to burnout, gain a whole new perspective on perfectionism, and understand how to heal from the inside out. This episode is literally handpicked, life-changing strategies, and mic drop moments that will rewire your mindset so you can up-level every aspect of your life.
Here we go. I'm on this journey with me.
Each week when you join me, we are going to chase down our goals, overcome adversity, and set you up for a better tomorrow. That's a no-see.
I'm ready for my close-up. The other thing you mentioned that I find really interesting is sunk cost fallacy.
And for anyone that doesn't really understand what that means, so often, whether it be in a relationship or in a business, we say, I've got 10 years in on this. I know I'm not happy.
I can't walk away now because that's basically saying the last 10 years I was wrong or that it's a waste or there's got to be, I can't do that now. There's too much invested in this.
And sunk cost fallacy is so interesting to me. I've done it in relationships before.
I'm four years into this. I can't give up now.
It makes absolutely no sense. Every time I've had that internal dialogue with myself, and of course, eventually something will happen or I'll have an epiphany that I do need to make that change.
And after I do, I have this moment where I sit down and say, yet again, here I am again, because so many of us have patterns in our life. You know, I stayed too long.
And so that's dialogue I'm constantly aware of now. I don't allow myself to say just because I was in something for a year or two years, doesn't mean it was too long.
You know what, if 10 years ago was the right time, now is the only time pull the trigger. Yeah.
It's so true. I go to like, is it still moving you towards your goal? Yes or no? So actually there's two parts.
Is it still moving you towards your goal? And is it still fulfilling? Because those things sometimes, right? It's like, well, no, we get, you know, especially in entrepreneurial world these days, it's like, you know, be on your grind, hustle, hustle, work hard, move forward. And so the question is, yes, work hard.
But are you working smart and are you working in the right direction? It's like, think of, you know, I love analogies. So just thinking about going in the car and it's like you want to drive to New York.
Right. But you actually take the wrong freeway and you keep going and you're like, but I'm on this freeway now.
I should, it will eventually get me to New York, but do you want it to take 10 times longer? What if you now realize actually I don't want to go to New York anyway, right? Like having these assessments of, am I still on the right path? Do I still want to go to New York? All these assessments, just because you're one year in doesn't mean that you shouldn't. In fact, that's when you should.
I wish I did that. In eight

years, I didn't do that even once. Me and my husband, we play this game called no bullshit, what would it take? And so the no bullshit, what would it take to X, Y, and Z? So let's say your goal is to build a company.
And you're like, okay, no bullshit, what would it take? It would take me seven years to make a hundred thousand dollars. And in that path, I will have to give up on spending Saturdays with my partner and I can no longer get my hair done.
Like that's what no bullshit. What would it take mean to get to your goal? Actually refine, where are you going? No bullshit.
What is it going to take to get you there? And then are you willing to do it? Because that's the thing, right? Like for you with your C-suite, if you're just like, I want to run this company. Great.
Now you've got the goal. You know what you want to do.
How do you get that? Okay. Well, I need to fill this position.
I need to work my way up the ladder. Okay, great.
What skillsets are you going to build to work your way up the ladder? Now, when you're in the process, each year you need to assess, are you having fun? Is it a life you still want? You have to replay the no bullshit, what would it take? Because now your goal still may be, I want to be to the top, but you know what? I actually really want to have a partner and I've given up ever. I've given up dating for four years.
And the truth is this may not be the life I want anymore. I want to date.
I want to go out there. Okay, so now maybe you've assessed your goal of running the company may not align with your day-to-day.
And now you better reassess, does your goal still match the life you want? And I think that to your point of how do you make sure you're not wasting your years is the reassessment of,

is your goal still your goal? And are your acts on a day-to-day filling your heart? Because if it's not, do you actually want to get to your goal in the first place? I like that idea of revisiting and constantly reevaluating what those goals are and accepting that what was working for you even two years ago just might not be working anymore. And that's okay.
I remember just growing up that it was this one path and it was corporate America and that's all I ever thought of, right? So when I was in it, it was tunnel vision. I never thought, what is available to me outside? Is there anything available to me outside of this? And it's so important that we say, we don't have to check the box and go to college and go to corporate America and get this prize.

We can actually instead pick our head up and say, what suits me now?

Just like that conversation that you had with your husband. And I so appreciate you sharing that.
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That's netsuite.com slash monahan. I think one of the worst aspects of unhealthy perfectionism is when you get what you want.
And it's like, I call it in my book, being struck with a thousand daggers at once, because you finally got the thing that you thought would make you, you know, feel the way you wanted to feel or be who you wanted to be or whatever, to certify your belonging to something. And you feel the opposite.
You feel like shit because you have to confront the fact that there is no substitute for self-worth and there's no substitute for real connection with other human beings. You know? So you talk about, thank you for breaking that down, first of all, but you talk about these underlying issues, lacking self-worth, fear, anxiety.
How do you guide people away from those things into self-love and self-compassion and allowing and embracing and channeling this into a power instead of a holdback. Yeah.
Well, that was what I was most excited to talk about in the book because I think we're getting a lot of that wrong with this, like, just love yourself. We talk about it like a panacea and it's like, you know, someone who's struggling to love themselves hears that and they don't know what that really means.
I mean, I don't even know what that really means when people say like, just be nice to yourself. It's like, give me actionable steps.
And I think what we, again, to go back to the emotional illiterate piece is like the self-compassion. And this is what I am so excited to talk about.
So I'm so glad you asked me that question. Self-compassion is not being really nice and sweet and polite to yourself.
Self-compassion is a three-step resiliency building skill. And the framework that I use in the Perfectionist Guide to Losing Control is based on research by Dr.
Kristen Neff, who was the first person to really research into compassion. She's like for self-compassion, what Brene Brown is to vulnerability, right? She's like the one.
And she breaks it down into these three steps. And we don't know what those three steps are.
And we don't understand that when you exercise self-compassion, that ushers you into a sense of real accountability for your life and real power instead of this petty control. I mean, that's the spine of the book is like, we are trading our inherent power for all of this control that doesn't even work and is an illusion in the first place.
And it's tantamount to like trying to move a car by getting behind it and pushing it instead of just sitting in the driver's seat and driving it. But we don't know the difference between control and power or like how to access our power.
And one of the best ways to access power is through self-compassion. But we live in a culture which teaches us that self-compassion is kind of like this hippie thing to do.
And especially in corporate America, it's not the move, right? That you need to be hard on yourself and punitive with yourself and bust your ass and do all of this stuff. And that's what's going to get you across the finish line.
And the research says the exact opposite. When people are punitive with themselves, they burn out, they don't operate with premium energy.
They're not solutions oriented. They have less creativity.
It's just negative across the board. And so the three, do you want to get into the three steps of self-compassion? Okay.
So the first is self-kindness. And again, what I love about Dr.
Neff is she really funnels it down to like talk about what kindness is. And she starts kindness in the most interesting way, which is being able to just acknowledge like you're in pain and that's why you need to be kind to yourself.
You're not just having a bad day. You're not just flustered.
Like you're in pain right now and you need to move towards yourself instead of away from yourself and have some empathy. So when I think about the difference between being kind and polite, empathy comes into play.
And empathy is about being able to understand what someone is feeling. And the someone in this case is yourself.
And so that looks like, let's just say you had a really bad meeting and you're starting the negative self-talk of like, I can't believe I said that. I can't believe I said that.
I am so embarrassed. That was such a, you know, blah, blah, blah, all the things.
Self-compassion would look like disrupting that and saying, God, it is really hard to feel this embarrassed. I am in pain.
Like this hurts. This is the worst.
And you have to acknowledge that. Whereas I think when people, when we tell people to just be nice to themselves, they have the exact same flustered meeting and then they're like, it's okay, you're okay.
And it like falls flat because we know what the truth feels like. And that's not the truth.
You're not okay. Like, and it wasn't an okay meeting.
You didn't do a good job. Like that's the truth.
And that doesn't have any commentary on who you are. It just means you had a bad meeting.
It was not your shiniest moment. And so that self-kindness is being able to acknowledge like, God, this is hard.
I'm hurting. The second one is common humanity, which is being able to say that we live amongst billions of people and billions of people live have lived before the us and hopefully if we you know can switch gears billions of people will live after us on this world which is in fire and someone somewhere is having your exact experience and like you're not alone in that.
And that is part generating connection, part like get out of the narcissistic mindset that like you are the only one who's ever suffered this much. And the more you're experiencing something that is taboo in our culture to talk about, the more shame you're going to feel and the more alone

you're going to feel. So for example, sexual molestation, right? We don't talk about that.
It's not okay to talk about it, you know, all the things. So someone who is feeling that is not going to feel a sense of common humanity because it feels so uncommon to them.
They're probably thinking nobody in my circle has ever had to experience something like this. Or if you, you know, no, it's so common.
I want people to know this and it's so common. It's so common, you know, same with domestic violence, you know, suicide, all of these issues, which are so common, but are still shamed in our culture and which are still

weighed down with stigma it's like if you were in a if you're feeling that stuff one way to kind of

generate common humanity is just imagining yourself in a room full of people who have who are talking

about that experience and that's why support groups are helpful for example because they

generate a sense of common humanity of like,

Thank you. full of people who are talking about that experience.
And that's why support groups are helpful, for example, because they generate a sense of common humanity of like, oh, I'm not the only one who's X, Y, and Z. And that's why frameworks like AA and things like that, it's a community.
It's community. And what community is, is like shared common humanity.
And then the last component of self-compassion is mindfulness. Another word that's been radioactively commodified in our culture.
And what NEF means by this is like being able to say, yes, that meeting was embarrassing. It was the worst.
I hated it. But also, that's not all I feel.
And being able to turn your head a little bit and say like, what else do I feel? Do I also feel, you know, proud of myself for being introspective right now? Am I also looking forward to Saturday night with, you know, going out with my girlfriends? Am I also really curious about this book that's been sitting on my nightstand for two months that has nothing to do with my job, you know, and just being able to return to the sense that like, you're a whole human being and being mindful of the fact that like this one experience you're having is not who you are. It doesn't say anything about what's possible for you in the future.
it's feeling like it's eclipsing your whole reality, day, life, whatever, because your stress response is activated and that narrows your line of vision. Because when your body is stressed, you're wired to focus on the next one minute of your life.
And so you're contracting. And mindfulness is about letting your body and mind know it's okay to expand now.
There's no tiger in the room with me, you know, and you're safe. And this isn't all you feel.
So perfectionists feel disappointment a lot amongst a litany of other emotions.

And instead of asking yourself, like, how do I feel less disappointed?

How do I get rid of my disappointment?

A better question is, what else do I feel?

Because then you make space for the disappointment and you make space for the rest of your emotional landscape, which is, you know, not just bad. It's filled with a lot of other stuff.
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I also teach people how to increase their intuition, how to become empowered, okay, within their own person. So, yes, I feel that if somebody wants something to change in their life and they want to learn how to manifest, you first thing I ask is, what's your intention?

Why do you want this to happen?

Does anything scare you about this happening? And you'd be surprised. Sometimes people will say things and I'm like, okay, that's from a fear base or a negative thing.
So a lot of what you're seeing is miracles showing up. It's not just healing the mind, the body, and the spirit.
It's also teaching the client how to access this energy field that some people call source, creator of all that is, so that they can actually have these manifestations come to fruition. As everyone listening knows, my old life was very much corporate America.
I thought people who talked about manifestation were on drugs or hippies and just, I truly did not. I thought that that was them there over there.
And I'm part of the hardworking population driving value in the U S like, I just saw that as so separate from me. And so through this whole journey, since getting fired, I've opened my mind to a lot of different things and I 100% believe in manifestation.
And

that's something that you've worked with me on. And I'll tell you, I've watched The Secret,

I've read all these different books. And again, all this information goes back hundreds and

hundreds of years, if not probably thousands and thousands of years that I haven't accessed yet.

But one profound statement that you made to me that helped turn the switch on for me, and I don't know if anyone's struggling with this, maybe this will help them. I was saying to you when we were in a session, I said, I just don't understand.
It seems fleeting like once in a while it will happen, but I don't have control over it. I don't know how to make it happen on the regular.
I feel like I'm blessed at a certain moment or time it could happened, but I still don't know what I'm doing. You know, it's not methodical and I don't have a handle on it and I want to have a handle on it.
And you said to me, do you know what your purpose is? And I think you called it divine timing is why you're here on this planet. And I said, of course I do.
Yes. I know exactly what it is.
And you said, do you see that certainty and that conviction that you have in that? I said, yes. She said, you need to have that same certainty, conviction, and knowing when you're manifesting something.
Can you talk a little bit about that? Most people are pretty much queued up. There's a lot of information out there.
I'm not the only one. You're also a purveyor of health and wellness and success.
Okay. So there's a lot of

us out there, but all of this information that we read, that we're taught, there's a huge difference

between having all of this information in your mind, which you are consciously aware of through

your cognitive abilities of everything you've been taught, you've been hearing and you've read.

There's a huge difference between what you you've been hearing and you've read,

there's a huge difference between what you have in the mind and what you actually, all of that information in your mind and actually feeling in your soul, in your heart, all of that information. When you actually feel in your heart and in your soul, everything you've read, everything that you resonate with, you know,

cognitively, that's really, Heather, when the magic happens. When you actually feel it with that conviction, when you were like, of course, this is my divine timing.
So that type of conviction and that feeling it in your heart, I think is when the magic, it happens before that transition, But I really feel that that's key for all of these blessings to keep coming to someone, to everyone, you know, to actually feel and know, and just know that you don't know when it's going to happen, but that is going to happen. So one of the things teach people is to make a manifestation list for their divine timing.
And I think that's the challenge with most people. I want to have a family.
I want to open my own business. I want to move to, I don't know, Colorado, whatever it may be.
And I think they start to, in their minds, try to figure out how that's going to happen. And that kind of can slow it down as opposed to, I want to move to Colorado.
I'm just giving you an example. I want to move to Colorado in 2023 for my divine timing to be able to do this, this, this, and this.
Thank you, universe. Thank you, creator.
And yeah, you want to Google real estate. You want to kind of see what's happening in Colorado, but you don't have to figure out exactly how that's going to happen and when that's going to happen.

I'm not referring to someone who's in a corporate position where the company moves to another state and they move you to another state.

I'm referring to someone who just doesn't want to be somewhere and wants to move somewhere else or wants to move out of the country or whatever it is that their manifestation is to put it out there and know that it's available and that's going to happen staying in the present moment and not trying to figure out exactly how that's going to happen for me i've spent my entire life white knuckling and working so hard trying doing the last bit that you just said but trying to figure out how how to make it happen. So all this time I was spending all this effort and angst on something that I should have been letting go of.
Yes. I will use myself as an example.
I've been practicing energy alternative medicine for 12 years now, and I have a nice successful private practice. Thank thank you universe and a lot of my clients are video well before COVID because I've never I've never had the privilege of meeting them but you know we'll we'll have a session every three or four months or what have not and one of the things that I was manifesting was to start doing a podcast to start on that I kid you not it's like, wow, I really want to start being interviewed.
You know, my son's already 16 and a half. We'll be in college next year.
I'll have the time to travel around and start speaking publicly. I just put it out there, put it on a list.
And then I don't know, about three or four weeks ago, all of a sudden you're leaving and you turn around and you say, by the way, I'd love to have you on my podcast. I almost fainted.
And I was like, keep it together. Heather's your client.
And I was like, so I was beaming with joy. I had a smile from here to here.
And when you left and I was just like, yes, thank you universe, because that's what I really wanted to happen. But I didn't do anything.
I didn't start calling people. Hey, can I be on your podcast? It just happened.
And that's another example of just wanting something to happen, knowing that it's going to happen and just throwing it out there without an emotional attachment to when. I decided to change that dynamic.
I couldn't be more excited for what You're going to hear, start learning and growing. Inevitably, something will happen.
I'm on this journey with me.