Confidence Classic: Break Free From Stigma and Build the Life You Really Want with Dr. Gail Saltz

The one thing I would tell you from older patients that I see is that it's easier to live with mistakes than it is to live with regret.

Wow.

And you may falter, maybe it didn't work out.

You may have to back up.

There may be some loss involved.

But to never try and to just stay stuck is a tougher place to be.

Come on this journey with me.

Each week, when you join me, we are going to chase down our goals, overcome adversity, and set you up for a better tomorrow.

Tell me, have you been enjoying these new bonus confidence classics episodes we've been dropping on you every week?

We've literally hundreds of episodes for you to listen to.

So these bonuses are a great way to help you find the ones you may have already missed.

I hope you love this one as much as I do.

Hi and welcome back to Creating Confidence.

I'm so glad you're here.

I was just sitting here thinking about how frustrated I am right now.

And I literally, as soon as I turn the mic on to talk to you, I get excited.

So that's good.

All right, progress.

I was really in a crap mood.

And I want to share this with you because I definitely am a positive person.

I definitely like to put positive spins on things, but everybody has a bad day, bad week, you know, bad moments in time, tough moments in time.

And these are all first world problems.

So I try not to get too caught up in them.

But as you know, if you heard the show last week, I was really sick.

I chose not to take medicine.

Bad move, Monahan.

I usually always get a Z pack once a year.

I get sick.

I lose my voice.

I take a Z pack.

I bounce back.

This year, I tried, I try not to give my son antibiotics because the doctor says, you know, not to get them conditioned to teach their bodies to overcome sickness on its own.

So I thought if my son's sick, he's coughing up green phlegm and I'm not putting him on an antibiotic.

why would i do it i should i didn't have a trip last week and i didn't have a speech or anything so i thought okay i'll just give it a shot and i literally here i am a week later i'm still sick i'm definitely so much better than i was last week thank goodness so my body is fighting it but i in some ways last week was just such a waste i didn't have energy like i usually do i probably accomplished a quarter of what i would typically accomplish in a week which is now impacting my week this week because on the prior week, you know, you're building that pipeline and securing meetings and closing deals and whatnot.

And then the fruits of that labor appear the next week.

So I went into this week kind of feeling bummed out that I hadn't really locked up a lot of things I wanted to, rah, rah, rah, whatever.

Poor me.

It has not been a great week.

And then, as you know,

I found out, or I thought I had mold in my bathroom.

Turns out, always get a second opinion, whether it's medical or your home or otherwise.

I got a couple of phone calls when some of my friends heard I was freaking out about mold in my house and I two of my girlfriends who are in the construction real estate business called me directly and said hey get another opinion because sometimes people want to take advantage of a single woman and You can't trust this guy that came to give you this $8,000 estimate to rip out your whole bathroom.

And thank goodness I got some other estimates because it turns out it was mildew, not mold.

Hello, epic fail.

And thank goodness we got someone in here that was honest and kind, had a track record working with my other girlfriend, really wonderful person, and everything got done for $1,000.

So my house is covered in dust.

I just have cleaned it from top to bottom so many times and it still is dusty.

Because the sliders on my condo will not open because my building is under construction yet again.

I feel like I'm having a complete bitch session right now.

Anyhow, all right, the good news is my bathroom is fixed and today is the first day we're going to to be able to use it again in a week because the work is done, things are dry, and it's clean enough to use, although still a little dusty, but we're making progress.

So that is great news.

As far as work goes for me, I kind of had a mental breakdown because as you can see, I haven't been feeling my best, which really affects my decision making or my tolerance level too, I would say.

Sometimes I can be more tolerant of things, but when I'm not feeling great, I get annoyed easily.

And I think sometimes it's for the good.

My speaking business, I signed an exclusive and went on directly with a speaker agent at the end of Q4

2019, a few months ago.

And I did that so that I wouldn't have to manage a speaking business myself.

And, you know, ultimately they would have a pool of connections of people that are constantly hiring speakers.

They know, you know, where to fish, who to speak to, who to pitch me to.

And I just anticipated, wrongfully, that my speaking business was going to explode you know sometimes you need to try things to find out what works and what doesn't and I'm also open to you know not everyone is the right fit however I like these people I was really excited about it and I'm still working with them but I did not see my business explode and when you sign on with an agent and you do an exclusive you agree to send them all of your leads you know what people when they message me on LinkedIn or Instagram asking me to hire me to speak for something I just started sending all of that business to them, the agent to manage.

And what I've learned is I didn't have the right situation for me because I saw my inbound leads that I used to close at an 80% closing ratio were dropping off to maybe 15% closing ratio.

And here's the thing.

People, oftentimes people aren't going to make you the priority that you would make you in your business, right?

So I would respond to people immediately, even if I was on the road or traveling, I'd send a DM or a note saying, listen, I'm going to get back with you.

I will send you my speaker reel, my kit, my this, my that.

Let's jump on a call and customize a keynote for you.

And, you know, because I have a really high level of interest in supporting my customers, making sure they're happy and doing a great job.

And other people just probably aren't going to feel that same level of commitment or excitement or sense of urgency.

which I think really impacted my bottom line.

So ultimately, yes, it was the holidays and things slowed down around the holidays, but I I still, here we are in first quarter, moving into March almost, and I just haven't seen my business pick up to the level it was when I managed it.

So, well, during my sick, not so great mood, I decided to call my agent and just say, listen, here's the thing.

Let's look at metrics.

Let's look at numbers.

When I was managing this myself, I was averaging a minimum of two speaking engagements a month, sometimes up as many as four or five.

That's really where, that's the baseline of where I want to be.

My anticipation was we were going to grow that because of your expertise, your contacts, etc.

Another thing they had wanted was to wait for the TED Talk to come out.

The TED Talk came out.

The TED Talk is great.

I'm super proud of it.

So, all I did the things that they needed me to do, and I was revisiting those expectations with them again, again, in a positive manner.

I really like these people, and just explaining that my expectations weren't being met.

Now, maybe my expectations were incorrect, and she didn't challenge that.

She actually said she was really disappointed in the performance too.

She understood why I was frustrated.

And so we agreed that I'm going to take it back managing it myself because I was getting better results when I managed myself.

I really didn't want to, I'll be honest with you, because it's more work for me, more follow-up for me, one more thing on my to-do list, but it's my number one revenue driver right now.

So I have to, I have no choice.

So I decided to do that.

Well, last night, because I am a crazy person, I'm sitting on the couch.

I'll break this down how this all happened.

I was sitting on my couch and I get a tagged on a LinkedIn post.

It was some woman saw me on the Gary Vee podcast and shared that podcast on social on LinkedIn and tagged me and Gary Vee in it and said, wouldn't it be amazing if we could sit behind the scenes on the next Gary Vee and Heather Monaghan show?

So that gave me an idea.

Number one, I shared that on my page, of course, because I so appreciate everyone's support and it means the world to me.

But then I thought, why don't I reach out to Gary's team and pitch the idea that with International Women's Day coming up, we should run a contest for women so that if they want to sit behind the scenes, they could on International Women's Day or that week, we would do another podcast, answer their questions, and make this, you know, kind of an exciting opportunity for people to do exactly what this woman wanted to do.

So of course I messaged his assistant, who I love.

I have not heard back yet 24 hours later.

Guess we'll have to give him a day or two.

And I'm excited.

Who knows if I'll even hear back?

I never know, but I just, you know, I keep trying.

So I thought that was a cool idea.

So I was sitting there thinking about Gary because of this idea, this woman's post.

And I thought, oh my gosh, I forgot about Vayner Speakers.

And so Gary has, he has multiple companies.

One of them is called Vayner Speakers, which is run by this guy, Zach, who I happened to meet when I interviewed Jesse and Sarah Blakely at Hyper Growth in September.

And so he's very nice, very professional, very dialed in.

I mean, this guy knows everyone.

So I first I Google Vayner Speakers.

I look at their roster and my friend James Alticher, who's been on the show, is now added to their roster.

Jesse Itzler's on the roster.

So I start thinking, wow, you know, I have interviewed these people.

I've spoken with these people.

I've done events with these people.

Maybe I should be on this roster.

And they have a very small roster, unlike the other speaker bureaus that I'm with, which are huge.

So I decided to shoot.

Zach an email last night just to give it a shot.

I said, listen, here's the thing.

I just ended my exclusive agreement with my agent.

I'm back managing this myself.

It's really not my goal to manage this myself.

I would much prefer to put it in the hands of an expert like you.

I've enclosed my 10-minute TED Talk.

I'd love for you to see what I'm capable of.

I see that you're working with a couple of really good friends of mine.

They speak the world of you.

I don't know if you're considering adding people, but I sort of serve as a white space that you're not currently meeting.

I looked at your roster.

You don't really have anyone female in that business, motivational, inspirational space.

I could fill that void for you, bring you a new revenue stream, and I'll knock it out of the park.

And then I included the Forbes article where I was featured as a professional speaker, TEDx, et cetera.

So I thought, you know, okay, let's give it a shot.

Who knows if I'm going to hear back?

And I did.

I heard right back from him.

He told me that he will do his best to watch that TEDx talk for me this week, asked why I would end an exclusive, which I explained to him.

It was a breakdown in my expectations versus, you know, results and reality.

And that, you know, I just decided I was getting better return when I managed it myself.

And he asked asked for a few days.

So let's see.

You just never know.

I mean, listen, the chances are very slim I will get added, but that would be epic if I could get it.

So you just never know.

So you try.

And a lot of time I'll send out these emails or these DMs and I don't hear anything back.

But I was really grateful that he responded.

And, you know, I tried to make it.

worthwhile for him showing that I could add value, could add a new revenue stream and could service a space that currently didn't look like it was being serviced on his roster.

So we will wait and see.

Like always, so another thing that's been going on this week is my book proposal.

If you're not up to speed on this, I have redone this book proposal so many freaking times.

It was easier to write the book, which I already wrote.

And people have been asking me, when's the book coming out?

Which

has kind of been frustrating.

My first book, I self-published, which was really quick.

I did that within just a couple months' time.

But this time, I thought, you know what?

I did everything as a rookie, as an unknown.

It was so hard getting into Barnes and Noble.

It was so hard getting, you know, exposure and reach for my book.

Why not go to an expert?

Why not go to a publishing house and an agent and partner so I can have support and not do this alone, right?

Speed to market is always critical to me.

And that's why I self-published the first time.

It's not as critical this time because I do have the speaking business, you know, to garner revenue for me, my podcast, et cetera.

So I decided I knew it was going to be slower.

I found an agent.

I went after Rachel Hollis's agent.

I didn't get her, but she passed me to her partner who I've been working with for months now.

And I am happy to tell you, version 15 was just sent over to the editor.

And when he got it, he said he absolutely loved it.

And he thinks that this is going to be the one that goes through.

So we've redone every portion of this book proposal multiple times.

This is the 15th version.

Is it frustrating?

Heck yeah, it is.

It's, you know, this back and forth process, and it's slow and painful.

But my hope is I'm going to learn that it was worthwhile and, you know, create these new opportunities and partnerships with people who are experts in this area.

I'm going to get paid for it.

I'm going to get promoted through them and their platform.

So we'll see.

I don't know, maybe months from now, I'll be saying that this was not a great idea and I should have self-published, but I'm not going to know if I don't try.

And that's why I decided I had a good experience, although it was difficult self-publishing.

It moved really, really fast, but it never really broke through to the level that I feel like it has the potential to.

So that's why this book I wanted to put in the hands of someone who can break through that noise, breakthrough, and help me get that reach.

So no one succeeds alone, and that includes your girl.

So I'm giving it a shot again.

Sometimes these things work, sometimes they don't.

But if I don't try, I'm never going to know.

Crazy, a couple of crazy things actually happened this week.

So after I took all this action with my speaking business, I had four different people reach out to me yesterday wanting to hire me for speeches.

Kind of crazy that I have been so focused on this and taking some action on it this week.

And then all of a sudden all this business started bubbling up, which was great and super exciting.

One is actually for a speaking engagement next week for a financial institution, which is crazy.

I mean, it's kind of eye-opening that things can be so slow for a while and then all of a sudden explode.

You know, you never see that coming.

And I guess that's the importance of.

staying consistent, you know, staying committed to your vision, staying committed to your work and moving things forward because you just don't know what's going to happen next.

But I was super excited about some of the opportunities that I got yesterday and I'm working on getting those clothes now.

Some bad news, I had been working on a clothing line and with a friend of mine and we submitted that pitch and I got rejected again.

This is now, I think it's my third time getting rejected on the clothing line.

However, today I turn on LinkedIn and three people are posting saying, Heather, where do you get your clothes?

How do you know what to wear?

You look great.

I love your style.

And when I see that stuff, I say, forget it.

I don't care that I keep getting rejected.

I've got to go back to the drawing board, come up with something more unique, different than what people are currently seeing, just to get the opportunity so that I can build out that line and share exactly where I do come up with my clothes and have them be my own.

So staying committed to something that isn't working can be really challenging.

And I feel like I'm doing that sometimes in my speaking where, you know, this whole thing has slowed down because I handed it over to someone else with this book proposal, redoing it 15 times, taking months to get completed, praying that I get it approved next week.

You know, there's so now this this clothing line, there's so many things that I work on that feel like fails.

And, you know, the key is just not giving up on it.

So I believe, I hope you believe with me.

So trying to get positive, we will have to turn that over to my guest today because I am in my little rut right now, but you're helping to pick me up out of it.

Isn't it funny that the people you surround yourself with can have such an impact on your mindset, how you feel.

And just even turning this microphone on reminds me how grateful I am that I have a podcast.

You know, a year ago, I didn't.

Super lucky.

I love this opportunity.

I so appreciate you and your help sharing the message of the podcast.

So grateful I'm now on Spotify and all these amazing platforms that I wasn't able to have access to before.

So appreciate you being here.

Appreciate you supporting me.

And that helped put me in a good mindset when I can be grateful for all that I have that I did not have just one year ago.

So hang tight.

We will be right back.

Meet a different guest each week.

Confidence creates.

Hi, and welcome back.

I'm so excited for you to meet Dr.

Gail Saltz.

She's best-selling author of numerous books, medical expert as seen on every television program, media outlet, the author of The Power of Different, a psychiatrist and a psychoanalyst.

It is my pleasure to introduce you, Dr.

Gail.

Thanks for being here.

Well, thanks for having me.

I'm really excited.

I went to school for psychology, just undergrad, but I've always had a passion and interest into understanding the human experience.

And I was so compelled to reach out to you after reading about the power of different and the link that you're identifying.

If my audience doesn't know you yet, which they're going to be excited to get to know you, if you could give us a little background into what you've been doing.

Sure.

Well, as you mentioned, I am a psychiatrist.

I'm on the faculty at New York Presbyterian Wild Cornell Medical Center, and I've been in private practice for 25 years.

It's a long time, but I do a lot of what I would call public education work.

So as you brought up, you know, I'm often on television shows, either talking about something new in mental health and updating people, or it may relate to the news, sort of either news you can use in terms of mental health or sort of trying to explain phenomenon that go on and why that is, why people did what they did, or why culturally something might be happening from a psychological standpoint.

That might be television or radio or writing.

I write regularly for U.S.

News and World Report, contributor for Thrive.

So

those things keep me busy.

And I am also, I actually am also very involved on the board of, and I'm a medical expert for Physicians for Human Rights, which is a group that basically, exactly as it sounds, is very involved with people who are either experiencing human rights violations and it affects their health and well-being in this country or abroad, and people who are seeking asylum because of human rights violations.

And as you know, in this day and age, that has become a very complicated matter, but trying to help people with that.

Wow.

How do you find the time to do this many jobs, write this many books, and work with such a global massive organization to help others?

Well, that's a good question.

I would say that when my children were younger, I didn't do a lot of sleeping.

I wasn't the best.

I think the hardest time is juggling motherhood when your children are young and career aspirations.

And I did a lot of, you know, some things suffered at various times because I couldn't attend to everything.

But I would, you know, maybe do less writing at certain times or less appearing at certain times or fewer patients at certain times.

So that, you know, there was a certain amount of juggling to make things fit.

My last child has gone off to college.

So I feel that I have more time now.

So I've, I'm sort of ramping up what I'm, what I'm being involved in.

But, you know, as you point out, there are only so many hours in a day, but I really, I love these things.

I think choosing things that you love to do, like truly love to do, make you much more economical with your time and make it more of a pleasure to be doing those things more hours than you might otherwise choose to do.

Well, you bring up a good point that I wanted to get into, which is, and obviously you're an expert in all of these things, but so many people don't know how to identify that, right?

You've figured out what your passion is and, you know, you're, you're all in, but I know so many people, and I'm sure you see a lot of patients like this, they're adults.

They might be successful adults and they still, you know, they're in the grind of corporate America.

And I was in this grind two years ago too, just, you know, working for the paycheck and life looks great on the outside, but something's missing on the inside.

How do you guide people to figure out what their passion is when it's not, when they're not so connected to it the way that you are?

Well, so first of all, let me say I wasn't always connected to it the way that I am now in the sense that I wasn't always doing what I've been doing for the last number of years.

And so to some degree, I think I'm an example of what I think is very common for many people, which is, you know, I thought, okay, I want to be a doctor.

I went to medical school.

And then, you know, I thought I wanted to be, you know, a general doctor, like a general internist.

And so I went and did my residency in internal medicine.

And somewhere in there, I recognized that I I was not loving what I was doing every day.

I was doing what I thought I was supposed to be doing.

And I think here is the first juncture for people where where I would say, you know, there comes a time when you know you are not loving what you are doing.

And the question becomes, why?

You know, have you gone, are you completely doing something that doesn't interest you at all?

Or is your work lacking meaning, meaning for you?

And meaning could be a paycheck.

I'm not, I wouldn't say, you know, I think for some people, you know, making more money really is meaningful for them because that's where they are vis-a-vis their family and what's what's needed and it really feels fulfilling.

But for many people, that isn't meaningful enough and they need to inject other types of meaning into their work.

And that is really key.

For me,

my curiosity or an ability to have enough creativity in my work didn't feel satisfied.

by the rubrics of internal medicine at that time.

And I felt that it was really what was in people's minds that was most curious to me, most interesting to me.

And so, after I did the residency in internal medicine, I said, you know, I'm going to go back and do a residency in psychiatry instead.

And I had the ability to do that.

I mean, again, you know, there's always the dovetailing of like, what can you do?

What do you have to give up?

So, you know, I wasn't going to go on and start making as much money as I wanted to start making.

I had to say, no, I'm going to delay another three years while I do this residency.

And then I was practicing psychiatry and I did really love it, but I also felt that there wasn't enough, let's say, variety in it for me.

For some people, that would be the variety patients would be great for them and that would be enough and they would be happy.

But I happen to be a person who kind of really gravitates toward many balls in the air.

And, you know, so here's the next juncture I would say to people.

You have to know yourself and you have to be willing to be honest with yourself about who you are.

So that is a hard thing to do.

And many people never achieve it, many people never try to even start it.

And I would say,

you know, it may be owning up to things that are not so pleasant.

It may be owning up to things that make you anxious because, oh my gosh, this isn't going to fit in very well with my life plan, you know, and my, and, you know, a lot of other things that I've built, or oh my gosh, have I wasted time?

I don't want to think that I've wasted time, so I'm not going to admit that to myself.

But really, it is about having a good dollop of honesty with yourself, even if it's scary.

You know, you don't have to commit to doing certain things, but you do have to commit to talking with yourself in a very honest way.

So, at that point, I was, you know, I said, wow, I even went back and did this other presidency.

And I even went into this area that I thought would be very satisfying and is satisfying in certain ways, but I need more variety.

I am a person who needs more variety.

And that's when I started, you know, answering, doing more speaking.

That was interesting to me, answering calls for the public relations department of my hospital because I thought that's something different, trying different things and finding, oh, I like that.

And that's something else I can add to my morgue board, as it were.

And that was important to me.

So the whole, you know, doing TV and books and all that, that was a very late chapter for me.

That was not anywhere I saw myself at all for the first, you know, at least decade of my career.

So I try to say, I say this to my children, I say this to my patients, you can keep reinventing as you go.

I mean, you might not be able to, you know, at age 65, wake up and say, no, I really wanted to be a lawyer.

Maybe that will be a difficult, you know, and you never did that, but you can keep moving, morphing, but it requires figuring out what is meaningful to you.

Once you've defined that, how you can inject that into work, what being honest with yourself about the style of things that you like, the meat of things that you like, the flexibility, the, you know, do you want to go deep in one place?

You want to be a jack of all trades?

And people do have different styles.

Some people who really have difficulty, I will send for testing.

There are career counselors who can do testing and help you at least with a direction of interest

for you and what is a good fit for your likes and skill sets and that has been helpful to people sometimes neuropsychological testing will show you your strengths and your weaknesses and sometimes they're a surprise to people and choosing things that play to the strengths that you have that you didn't realize were maybe unique to you we tend not to you know For example, I've worked with people, and this relates to the book that you mentioned, who have difficulties in areas because maybe they have, for example, dyslexia or they have attention deficit disorder.

And what they don't realize is the same brain wiring that presents that weakness for them also comes with very particular hardwired strengths.

So they may not realize that even though they have dyslexia, they also have incredibly strong visual spatial skills, which make them perhaps particularly able

in areas like

artistic endeavors, graphic design, movie making,

you know, in other words, a whole host of arenas that have to do with visual spatial relations.

And they didn't realize that A, they had that strength, B, that strength was useful in these particular areas.

And C, because of that, actually, it's something they gravitate to and find, you know, really enjoyable.

So it is also then about matching abilities that you have.

to arenas because let's face it, that's where you're going to get gratification.

You know, I'm good at this and I like doing it, therefore.

So those are all important things I think to consider when you're looking at what direction to move in.

Meet a different guest each week.

Let's go to better.

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I asked you to try to find your passion.

So you said a lot of interesting things.

One, when you started out talking about the importance of getting real with yourself, I really like that.

And for me, I use journaling as that way to start to really be honest because when I was alone with me being mindful and deliberate about that, it was easier for me to write it down and then be able to go back a couple of weeks later and look at how I was feeling in one moment versus, you know, a week, two weeks, three weeks later, that helped me start understanding, you know, wow, I really am frustrated all the time when I'm with these people or in these meetings.

Something's not right here.

And getting real with myself, but obviously with a therapist is such another great way to do it.

I've been in therapy my entire life, I mean, since I was in my 20s.

So it's definitely something that can be so helpful.

Yes.

Well, first of all, I totally agree with you that journaling is a fantastic tool for many people.

It is often easier to write down and then go back and reread your thoughts.

And it can be very cathartic to do so as well.

So journaling is often a tool used in therapy by therapists.

So yes, for many people, that's a helpful thing to do.

If you're not a writer and you're more of a talker,

you can do really audio.

journaling essentially you know recording yourself having a conversation with yourself and then be able to play that back back.

A therapist is definitely useful because they are somewhat of an objective outsider, right?

So they may hear things and be able to guide you

because they can hear what you can't hear and be able to sort of reflect that back to you.

So yes, for many people who have trouble sort of self-analyzing, if you will.

seeing an outside party can be very useful.

Couldn't agree with that more.

The other thing I really like that you said is that you had gone through through residency, which is this massive accomplishment, humongous time commitment.

And, you know, just, it's so impressive.

You did that and then had the courage to say, okay, this isn't really what I want to be doing.

And that's got to be.

humbling in some regards, just because of such an investment that you put out there and put into it.

I know me and the person I've been for a long time in my life, there's part of me that when I was hearing you say that, I was wondering if I was in your shoes, I wonder if I would have just made myself go forward with it because that's what I'm supposed to do.

I might have done that instead of saying, you know what, I'm going to pull the ripcord and my heart's telling me this is wrong.

So I'm so impressed at that evolution that you were willing to take.

Well, I'll tell you, and I do end up seeing a lot of people who just kept walking the path, you know, because believe me, it would seem like I would have been that person because I, you know, was definitely all about doing the right thing, being

good and following my path.

And it was, it was actually, I made it sound easy, I suppose, which wasn't intentional, but it really wasn't.

It was really, really hard.

It was doubly hard because as I started to sort of speak to my superiors, as it were, to say, you know, I'm starting to have some thoughts about this.

I really got a lot of negative feedback because, you know, basically people who are farther along

were like, you what?

A, how could you do that at this point?

And B,

you want to move from internal medicine to psychiatry?

You know,

I spend a lot of my career now talking about stigma and how do we, you know, manage stigma, which is basically the number one reason people don't get treatment for psychiatric and psychological issues.

But at that time, so, you know, we're talking about the late 80s, you know, there was stigma was a much bigger problem than it is today,

and the stigma not only, you know, affected patients, but I think it really affected people who wanted to go into the field.

You know, why would you want to do that?

Go into psychiatry, like,

and so, to be honest, I was, you know, I was, I was a very good intern and resident in medicine.

And my chief residents and, you know, attendings were saying, why would you want to do that?

And that was really had a very negative connotation.

So I felt, oh my gosh, you know, how hard is it?

I want to do this because it really interests me, but I'm going to be choosing something that essentially will be less respected, right?

After going through all this, I'm going to choose something that will be stigmatized, less respected.

They'll be like, oh, you know, another crazy shrink.

And that was really hard.

That was really hard for me.

At the end of the day, I just decided that, you know,

was it worth it to be less happy in my lifelong career

than to worry about, you know, how I would be viewed by others?

And I think that is how I made my decision.

It helps to have support of people in your life.

Let me just say, you know, across the board, no matter what you're deciding.

So I was newly married.

You know, my husband.

I met as an intern in medicine and he was a fellow in hematology, oncology.

So he'd also gone from internal medicine and then into oncology.

And thankfully, he was very, very on the side of, you need to do what you want to do, what you feel drawn to do.

And I support you 100%.

And he also been like,

don't be a psychiatrist.

That would have been.

even harder.

I don't, you know, but that was a factor.

So having the support of people who know you well, know you super well, and you're able to articulate to them why you want to do what you want to do.

And they're able to say, I hear that.

I get that.

I support that.

That is very helpful, no question.

How do you advise your patients that don't have that when they have people around them that are saying, no, it just doesn't make sense?

That's not smart.

It's a bad idea.

Well, I think, first of all, I mean, sometimes outside, you know, that's a bad idea.

It may have validity.

So I think it's it's important to listen to the people around you, but then it's also important to step back and ascertain the nature of your relationship with them.

In other words, had they been, are they a person who is, who you really trust is in your corner, does want the best for you?

Because unfortunately, there are friends who, you know, feel, or even spouses for that matter, or parents, or there are people who even though they're by title supposed to be in your corner, they have a history of being competitive with you, right?

or they have a history of undermining you in some way because they feel competitive or because they feel envious or because they feel you know any number of things but you need to look at the history are you listening to the person who has historically been supportive in truly wanting the best for you even if the best isn't always easy even if the best isn't always easy for them Because, you know, obviously not every voice should weigh the same.

So obviously you might ask me, well, what about a person who doesn't have anybody like that in their life?

Well, I would say, you know, that's when seeing a therapist could be really helpful for you because that is a person who, that's their job, to be in your corner, to want the best for you, even if it means going through difficult things and having a hard time on the way.

But sometimes there are people in your life who do serve that role as well.

So I liked what you said about, you know, some people that are in your corner, they might think that that's difficult because it would be for them, but it doesn't mean that it necessarily is for you.

And I faced that when I left corporate America two years ago, so many people that cared about me, and they were all in corporate America doing like what you said when you were doing internal medicine, the idea that I was going to go be an entrepreneur and create something, and I didn't know what that looked like.

People were telling me, You're crazy for making this leap.

And they did, I genuinely believe they wanted the best for me, they care about me, but it was so out of their realm of possibility that they were putting those fears onto me.

You know, and at that point, it was, do you decide to accept that, those self-limiting beliefs that they have for them, that's working for them?

Or do you decide to say, I'm going to go back to my inner voice.

I'm going to go back to these people that I do know are cheering me on on my, you know, and somehow you just figure out, you know, take enough small steps forward to start saying, I feel better when I'm doing this.

I feel like this is the right path.

That was the answer for me was kind of taking those small steps and trying to tune out the noise from the people that didn't have the potential.

Well, that's another really good point you bring up, which is sort of, you know, is there a way to organize for yourself some test drives?

Can you keep doing what you're doing, but try out what you're thinking about, you know, on the side?

Is there a way?

And I think, you know, for example, I, you know, some of the things that I did, you know, I didn't know that I'd want to do, but I was like, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to try this.

And that takes a certain amount of courage, right?

I mean, you, you know, the first time time I did something on television, I was like, holy mat, what am I, you know,

but I was like, you know, if it doesn't work, I'll learn that.

It doesn't work for me, but no pain, no gain.

So I think some of that, you know, trying stuff, even when you're scared,

you know, not letting fear hold you back.

And, you know, you can become pretty fearful in a scenario where someone is saying to you, what do you mean you're going to, you built this career in finance.

So what do you mean you're going to leave?

That sounds crazy.

I mean, it is scary.

So there is a certain amount of, I'm not suggesting take an uneducated leap.

I'm saying take a very educated leap.

The one thing I would tell you from older patients that I see is that it's easier to live with mistakes than it is to live with regret.

Wow.

And you may falter, maybe it didn't work out.

You may have to back up.

There may be some loss involved, but to never try and to just stay stuck is a tougher place to be.

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Exclusion Supply.

I ask you to try to find your passion.

That is so powerful to me.

I love that.

That's such a great quote.

So I'll definitely be tweeting that out on your behalf.

Thank you for that.

That was really good.

So you brought up the example of you were, so now you're in medicine, you've switched roles in medicine, you took a big risk, and now you're switching to morph into television media writing.

And I like that you mentioned the first time you went on TV, it was scary.

Now today, you've been on massive, you know, the largest programs that are out there on television.

So that's something that I think people forget because of social media and because we can see what's happening in the moment right now.

I felt petrified the first time I went on TV as well.

And it was such a small program.

People don't see those reels back then 10 years ago of my first speech or the first time I went on a television program or the first time you did.

Because if they did see that and then in, you know, fat real time saw other slices from the next, you know, 200 interviews you did, they can then see the evolution to how you got to where you are.

But so often today, I just feel that people put more pressure on themselves because you don't see that.

You just see what's happening right now.

Well, yes.

And actually the way people handle that is to feel that somehow there's not supposed to be a learning curve for them.

You know, they're just supposed to arrive.

Everybody is supposed to have arrived.

And of course, there are two problems with that.

Well, the foremost problem being it doesn't work that way.

So then you end up feeling so afraid that you can't just instantly arrive that you never try.

And, you know, we're back to, you know, the regret of you just, you just never give it a go because you think that's the only way to do it.

But I would also say that you're losing out on the joy of the process, which actually really is,

if you let yourself feel it, very enjoyable.

I mean, I really.

you know,

the moving along slowly, sometimes, you know, a step back, then maybe two steps forward, then, oh, I learned that, or I figured out I could do it that way, is learning.

And learning is really enjoyable when you're not a kid who feels forced to learn to learn, you know, a curriculum of sorts that, you know, may or may not be something that interests you at all.

The process, we've, we've sucked a lot of the joy out of the process of learning.

And that really

is a very positive experience.

It's a way of really coming to know yourself better.

And it's a way to get the sort of the most out of yourself, if you will, if you, you know, look along the way at the experience for you of learning and of giving yourself the time to do that.

So I think, you know, many people as they move along in a career or prepare for a career could really enjoy that journey.

if they let themselves a little more.

Well, I'm right there with what you just described because it definitely, it's been difficult for me to enjoy that journey because I'm always wanting to achieve that next goal.

So it definitely is a process with yourself to condition yourself to say, it's okay that I haven't done this yet and to really, you know, alleviate some of that pressure.

It's been a work in progress for me.

So what are some of the key takeaways that you want to share from the power of different?

Well, so

as I mentioned, I have spent a lot of last many years now of my career, actually really trying to tackle this issue of stigma, which, as I said, is such an impediment in the whole mental health field in terms of not only people getting seeking treatment, knowing that they need treatment and getting it, but also in terms of the suffering involved for the

close to half of all Americans at some point that will have a mental health issue.

There is so much shame involved that only ladles on, you know, the negative feeling about it and makes the suffering that much more poignant for people who are are struggling.

So I feel that it's very, very important that we understand

that the, first of all, you know, these mental illnesses and learning disabilities, they are not a matter of fault.

You know, if you would just be tougher this way or stronger this way, if you'd just done this or that, you know, you could just undo it.

That's not the case, that it has to do with, you know, changes.

that either have occurred in the brain or changes that one is genetically primed to have occur in the brain that results in these kinds of illnesses, but that along with that, it turns out that these changes in wiring and changes in structure don't only cause symptoms, they're also correlated highly with very particular abilities, very particular, often extraordinary abilities that can lead to

people being the next Hemingway or Van Gogh or Abraham Lincoln or many people that I have spoken about that really had these difficulties, but they were connected to the very things that made them geniuses really of our time, you know, people who changed their field, people who had extraordinary ability and that without their mental illness, as it were, that probably would not have been the case.

And that you really, if you look back in history at the people who have really changed our world,

many of them, most of them, struggled with a mental health issue.

And I think if people understood that, we would view this issue differently.

And I also think that if people understood that, many people would, who do struggle would have helped in learning to play to their strengths, to identify them and utilize them and be living, you know, happier lives, to be honest, even as they struggle with.

the mental health issue.

Bringing up the concept of shame around this topic is so powerful, you know, discussed so rarely, rarely, but I mean, shame is just crippling.

I know for myself in my life, shame has been crippling.

And when I speak to some of my friends that struggle and people in my life that struggle with depression, it is so few people they ever want to share that with.

And there's that sense of being embarrassed and, you know, really the.

shame just owning them and preventing them to from getting help or addressing it and not getting any support.

Cause if you're not letting anyone know, you're suffering on your own and suffering in your shame.

And I like that you're linking these challenges to the phenomenal magnitude of the potential, which I've never heard anyone do before.

Well, I've been doing these psychobiographies basically for many years now, these talks about these individuals.

And I was just very struck that pretty much anybody I chose who was...

you would consider an extraordinary individual of the past turned out to have this mental health issue.

I saw this often in my practice because I do practice in Manhattan, so I do see a lot of very high-functioning people who are obviously nonetheless suffering.

And I saw these patterns that really drove my curiosity about what might be going on.

And so I started, you know, really looking at the research.

And, you know, it's very clear.

It was very clear.

And that's what led me to write the book, actually.

It's a very interesting area.

And I think we're on the cusp of with the imaging that's available now in terms of looking at the brain and the changes that are happening in the area of neuroscience.

You know, we're going to know more and more as we move forward about this issue and other issues.

But sadly, even though I think many people could acknowledge that the brain is our most important organ, we really know the least about it.

to date.

And so I think as we move along, there'll be more information.

And how do you advise those that are struggling with shame?

What are some of the workarounds that you offer them?

So, I mean, certainly to try to get the big picture in terms of the numbers of people that are suffering, which are,

you know, if you're curious, you know, look at the website for the National Institute of Mental Health and you will see they are huge numbers in every category.

So understand the numbers.

Understand the likelihood that there are probably many people around you who are suffering as well.

You just don't know who they are because you're not talking to anyone and they're not talking to anyone.

Consider joining a group.

Group therapy can really be helpful for people who are isolated in what they're struggling with, as well as seeing an individual therapist.

One can think about talking to the people close to them.

And I think, you know, often you're surprised, you'll be surprised to find out that, oh, yes.

I've struggled with that in the past or my husband or my friend or my, you know, I think it's just a matter of talking.

Some people find a comfort, frankly, from talking on social media because they will see that there is a lot of support and more and more people sharing their stories via social media.

So social media that specifically refers to just this, sharing your story if you're struggling with a mental health issue.

All those things can be helpful.

And, you know, sharing your story helps others too.

Absolutely.

And that's such a powerful driver to do it.

My therapist always told me, Heather, everyone is broken in some regard.

You're never alone.

You just might not have heard it yet.

Only be nervous when you see someone that is pretending to be perfect.

That's when you know you need to run.

That's someone who's really in trouble.

That's how she always advised me on relationships.

Well, that's someone who at least has their head in the sand, probably.

Right, exactly.

So, how can everyone find you and find the book?

So, the book is pretty much wherever you know, Amazon, Barnes and Nova,

wherever you choose to look.

And I do have a website, drgailsalts.com, but I do respond to tweets.

So tweet me at Dr.

Gail Saltz.

Thank you so much for your time today.

And thank you so much for all the work that you're doing.

It's, it's amazing and it's so motivating to hear.

You just inspired me to do more.

I can tell you that.

Thank you so much.

Well, thank you for having me.

And thanks to your listeners for listening.

It's a pleasure.

All right, hold tight.

We'll be right back.

I asked you to try to find your passion.

Okay, can we just say this is not my day?

I literally just sat down to record the wrap up of my show, which you're listening to right now.

And after I finished it, I went to save it and realized I never pressed record.

Oh my gosh, epic fail.

I don't know what is going on here, but this is a crazy week.

Maybe it's a full moon or something.

I don't, I don't know.

I'm a little, little confused.

So I love to get all of your DMs.

I love to get your questions.

And today I've got a couple of really good ones.

The first one I got is from LinkedIn.

Hey, Heather, I'm reading your book about your villain.

So one of the stories in my first book, Conference Creator, is about a woman who treated me really badly at work when I was younger.

Hey, I'm in a bad situation where I have just found out from management that I have a few villains.

I was blindsided.

Issue is management won't tell me who they are and exactly what they said, even though they're bad mouthing me.

These people have said horrible things about me and they're not true.

What do I do?

As top salesperson, I've learned people might be jealous.

But if I've rubbed someone the wrong way, I do want to fix it.

What advice do you have?

So here's the thing.

Number one, I would ask for a face-to-face meeting with that manager.

What was the intent of that meeting?

Are you being written up?

Did they go to HR?

Is this a professional, like filed on-file complaint?

You need to know that.

If it's not, what was the motive here?

To burden you with knowledge and not give you the ability to fix it?

Why can't you have a meeting with that other person, with that manager, to address conflict resolution and improve the situation for everybody in an effective manner.

Why wouldn't you have that?

So if they're not allowing you that, you're not actually written up and this isn't going in your file, what was the purpose of that manager having that conversation with you?

That's the question that I would ask and I would lead with.

I'm confused.

I don't really understand what your intention was here.

You wanted to make me feel badly about something and not allow me to do anything about it.

That doesn't sound like a great strategy for positive morale for the top salesperson in the company or anybody for that matter.

So definitely have have that conversation face to face.

Take emotion out of the conversation.

You want to be direct, clear, and ask some really good questions because I don't understand that.

That's not adding up to me.

Something is definitely off there and makes me wonder about the culture at that company and if there's not a possibly a toxic environment or some kind of undertow there that something, something's not right.

Okay.

That's not the way you handle a situation like that as a manager or a leader.

Okay, next, this is a really interesting one.

Okay, good morning.

I'm in the final stages of interviewing for a position.

That being said, I'm also testing soon to see if I can give a kidney to someone close in my life.

If I get a green light, the surgery would require me to be out for six weeks.

Would you recommend I let the potential employer know now during the interview process or do I wait after I'm hired?

So the first question I ask is, is this definite?

Well, we know it's not because we don't know if this person's going to be a match.

Okay, so I liken that to saying, potential employer, I may get hit by a bus tomorrow.

I have no idea if I will or if I won't.

Why would you bring up things that we're not certain of?

It doesn't make any sense.

And I want to give you the flip side of this.

Having been a chief revenue officer at a publicly traded company for years, we would sit in private meetings with the executive team and we would talk about, okay, if revenues do not accelerate to this level and we don't achieve these numbers in the fourth quarter later this year, we're going to have to implement expense cuts and we're going to have to eliminate positions.

The last thing that would always happen in those meetings is we would say, this conversation does not leave this room.

You know, there can be no breach of the trust that we have and, you know, keeping this conversation just to the executive team.

We do not want employees to hear about this.

It's not guaranteed it's going to happen.

We don't need to, you know, create scare.

So I would use that same methodology when meeting with a company, when you're looking at, you know, being hired by them.

If something is a potential and we're not certain of it, don't disclose it because I can tell you this, the employer would not be disclosing it to you if they are considering layoffs in fourth quarter, which could potentially be your job.

So move forward, only disclosing the things that we're certain of and you can feel good about your decision.

Okay, so I just want to say thank you so much for reviewing my show.

Every time you DM me a screenshot of your review, I buy you my $299 confidence video course as a big thank you.

Reviews help me so much.

And when you share on social media that you like the show, what you like about it, I will always retweet, reshare, repost because it means the world to me to spread the message and create confidence out in the world.

So, until next week, keep creating confidence.

I decided to change that dynamic.

I couldn't be more excited for what you're gonna hear.

Start learning and growing.

Inevitably, something will happen.

No one succeeds alone.

You don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

I'm on this journey with me.