The final days of Karen Read's retrial. The Pam Hupp saga continues. Plus, jury instructions.

This episode is brought to you by Progressive, where drivers who save by switching save nearly $750 on average.

Quote now at progressive.com to see if you could save.

Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, national average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023.

Potential savings will vary.

Discounts not available in all states and situations.

Dateline is sponsored by Capital One.

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees.

Just ask the Capital One Bank guy.

It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way.

What's in your wallet?

Terms apply.

See Capital One.com/slash bank, Capital One NA member FDIC.

Hey, good good morning.

You're listening in on Dateline's morning meeting.

Okay, so let's get started on this rainy morning.

Our producers are catching up on breaking crime news.

When did it happen?

I have every single body-worn camera as part of this investigation.

We're lucky at Dateline.

We get to go to trials for work.

These people are taking off of work.

Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly.

I'm Andrea Canning.

It's June 12th, and here's what's on our

In Lincoln County, Missouri, a new development in one of Dateline's most well-known cases, the Pam Hupp saga.

A former sheriff's deputy who investigated the 2011 murder she's accused of committing is now in handcuffs himself.

The judge set his bond at $50,000.

In Dateline Roundup, former Major League Baseball pitcher Dan Serafini squares off against his former lover in court, and Lori Vallo gets thrown out of an Arizona courtroom.

You don't need to yell at me either.

I'm

okay.

Yeah, you are, and you do not need to talk to me that way.

I'm very proud.

Plus, NBC News legal analyst Danny Savalos gives us the lowdown on jury instructions and how they can make or break a trial.

But before all that, we're heading to Dedham, Massachusetts, where the jury at Karen Reed's retrial may soon be getting their own instructions.

After seven weeks, Karen Reed's retrial is entering its final days, but the drama in the courtroom shows no sign of slowing down.

Reed is charged with second-degree murder and is accused of hitting her Boston police officer boyfriend, John O'Keefe, with her SUV and leaving him to die in a snowstorm.

She has pleaded not guilty, and the defense has argued that Reed was framed by law enforcement as part of a cover-up.

As the defense wrapped up its case this week, tensions ran high and sidebars ran long.

Reed's lawyers called for their second mistrial in less than a week.

Even Judge Beverly Kanoni seemed fed up.

We've done important work, but we've wasted an awful lot of the jurors' time today.

Here to break it down is Dateline producer Sue Simpson, who has been watching In Court.

Sue, welcome back.

And when we say In Court, you were in court?

I was in court.

Hi, Andrea.

You've said many times how tiny this courtroom is.

This has been going on for weeks.

It seems like everyone is just feeling a little cooped up in that courtroom.

What's the mood been like?

Oh, boy, Andrea, everyone seems to be feeling a little depleted.

The judge, the attorneys, and the jurors, everyone has shown signs of fatigue at times.

There have been a few testy exchanges.

You know, a long trial is tough on everyone.

Yeah, well, we are in the home stretch, and we will talk about that in a minute.

But Sue, let's start with this motion for mistrial that happened on Monday afternoon.

What happened with that?

So it's not unusual, as you know, Andrea, to see a motion for a mistrial.

Either side can do this if they believe the other side has made a big mistake.

But there are times when it's done more to get it on the record, perhaps with an eye to an appeal.

So here's what happened on Monday.

The defense called an accident reconstructionist named Daniel Wolf to the stand.

And during the cross-examination, the prosecutor asked Wolfe about holes in the back of the sweatshirt that John O'Keefe was wearing when he died.

The prosecutor made it sound like the holes could have been caused by road rash after John O'Keefe was hit by a car.

But the defense jumped up to say those holes were actually made by a forensic expert who examined the sweatshirt during the investigation.

And Andrea, Defense Attorney Bob Alessi really let the prosecutors have it.

And now what we have is we have holes in the back of the sweatshirt that were dramatically held up to the and confronted with Dr.

Wolf in the jury season.

With the clear, unmistakable,

purposeful intention of having the jury conclude that these holes could have come from

events

on January 29th of 2022.

What could be more egregious?

What could be more misleading than that?

What did the prosecution have to say in response?

Well, Prosecutor Hank Brannon admitted that he'd made a mistake, and that's unusual for such an experienced attorney.

Brannon said he just went through the lab paperwork too quickly.

Judge Kanoni dismissed the mistrial motion, but she did say she'd include an instruction for jurors advising them that the holes had been made during the investigation.

And you know, there was a bit of tension between the judge and the defense as she was going over the wording of her note.

I instruct you that you are not permitted to draw any inference that those holes were a result of the events on January 29th, 20.

so I all right this is what I'm going to say so if you're not going to listen to it that's fine I've already said it

all right we can bring the jury in

it's what I said

okay so now we're going to talk about another defense witness a forensic pathologist but before she even started testifying there was a lot of discussion between the lawyers and the judge about what she was allowed to say so tell us about this witness and and why there was so much back and forth surrounding her.

Right.

So this was a woman named Dr.

Elizabeth La Posada.

She used to be the chief medical examiner of Rhode Island, and she studied John O'Keefe's autopsy and other records, you know, like police records, documents from the hospital.

Her testimony was supposed to deal with John O'Keefe's injuries, but there was a debate over whether she could say those wounds on his arm were caused by a dog.

You know, finally, Judge Kanone ruled that La Posada wasn't qualified as an expert on dog injuries, but she allowed allowed her to say that the wounds could be from an animal.

What else did the defense ask her about, this pathologist?

So, Alan Jackson asked her about that serious injury on John O'Keeffe's head.

Could you describe that,

specifically his head injuries, to the jurors, please?

Well, as we say, he has a pattern head injury on the back of his scalp where there is a tearing of the scalp, and then vertically above that, there is some little areas of scraping to the skin.

So that tells me that Mr.

O'Keefe went backwards onto something that had a little ridge.

She explained that the injury couldn't have been caused by John O'Keefe falling onto a flat surface like the driveway.

She also talked about a cut on his eyelid that she said was consistent with some application of force which broke the skin.

Dr.

Laposadi, you just mentioned that the laceration above the right eyelid was consistent with the application of force, correct?

Correct.

You said it could come from some object, is that right?

Correct.

It was fairly small.

Could be is some sort of object.

Is it also consistent with a fist?

Sure, a fist is an object.

The pathologist's interactions with the prosecutor on cross were sometimes testy.

Good afternoon, Dr.

La Posada.

Six minutes till the afternoon.

Good afternoon.

Yeah, he questioned La Posada's background, particularly about her neurological expertise, since she was testifying about O'Keefe's head injury, and that led to a memorable exchange.

Do you agree that a brain is very soft consistent with, for example, tofu?

Oh, gross.

What do you mean?

It is soft.

Is it that soft?

Is that the texture of it?

Well, it depends on what kind of tofu you have.

Okay.

The prosecutor also pressed La Posada on whether O'Keeffe's arm injuries could have been caused by pieces of the taillight flying off Karen Reed's SUV, and he asked her about the effects of the impact of the vehicle hitting O'Keefe.

But La Posada held firm.

She insisted the car did not hit him.

So you didn't care to know anything about the car, the data in the car, because you had already formed your opinion?

It did not hit him, so it was not relevant to my opinion.

Because

by looking at the body, I could tell that there was no evidence of impact with the vehicle.

All right, so as we mentioned off the top, this is the home stretch sue.

The defense rested their case on Wednesday afternoon, and we are looking ahead now to closing arguments.

Based on sitting in the courtroom day after day, any idea how you think both sides will wrap things up?

Well, of course, Andrea, you know, they're both going to drive their arguments home.

The prosecutor saying Karen Reed reversed her car into her boyfriend deliberately.

And the defense saying, no way, O'Keeffe was beaten up by others in the house that night.

And the thing is, Andrea, this whole case comes down to a car, a couple apparently arguing, and a few seconds.

That's what the data in the car and on John O'Keefe's phone tell us, that whatever happened was over in seconds.

Either he was hit or he was in the house.

So what actually happened in that tiny, tiny timeframe?

Yeah.

All right, Sue.

Well, maybe next week we'll have you back to talk about an actual verdict.

Wouldn't that be something?

Thanks, Andrea.

Talk soon.

Coming up, a former sheriff's deputy faces criminal charges in the case that inspired the thing about Pam.

What if you could turn your curiosity for true crime into a degree?

At Southern New Hampshire University, you can.

Southern New Hampshire University offers over 200 degrees you can earn online, including subjects like forensic psychology and criminology.

And with some of the lowest online tuition rates in the U.S., Southern New Hampshire University makes earning your degree affordable.

Find your degree at snhu.edu/slash dateline.

That's snhu dot edu slash dateline.

Summer is here, and the only thing that should be heating up is the grill.

So don't get scorched by your wireless bill.

Say goodbye to your overpriced wireless plans, jaw-dropping monthly bills, and unexpected overages because Mint Mobile is here to rescue you.

Mint Mobile is offering three months of unlimited premium wireless service for $15 a month.

All plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text, delivered on the nation's largest 5G network.

This year, skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank.

Get this new customer offer and your three-month unlimited wireless plan for just $15 a month at mintmobile.com/slash dateline.

That's mintmobile.com/slash dateline.

Upfront payment of $45 required, equivalent to $15 a month.

Limited time new customer offer for first three months only.

Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan.

Taxes and fees extra.

See Mint Mobile for details.

If you work as a manufacturing facilities engineer, installing a new piece of equipment can be as complex as the machinery itself.

From prep work to alignment and testing, it's your team's job to put it all together.

That's why it's good to have Granger on your side.

With industrial-grade products and next-day delivery, Granger helps ensure you have everything you need close at hand through every step of the installation.

Call 1-800-GRANGER, clickgranger.com, or just stop by.

Granger for the ones who get it done.

On Tuesday afternoon, Russ Faria walked into the Lincoln County Courthouse in Missouri, the same courthouse where he was wrongfully convicted in 2013 of murdering his wife.

He was then acquitted two years later at a second trial.

This week, he watched as the former sheriff's deputy who testified against him was taken into custody and charged with lying on the witness stand.

If you don't know Russ Furia's name, you probably know the name of the person who now stands accused of murdering his wife.

We are talking about Pam Hupp.

She's been the subject of multiple Dateline episodes, an NBC scripted miniseries starring Renee Zellwiger, and a hit podcast from our own Keith Morrison.

I'm Keith Morrison.

This is Dateline NBC's newest podcast: The Thing About Pam.

In 2016, Pam Hupp fatally shot a man in her house.

She claimed it was in self-defense, but investigators uncovered an elaborate scheme.

They accused Pam of luring the victim to her home by posing as a dateline producer, all part of her plan to frame Russ Faria as a violent man.

Hupp took an Elford plea and was sentenced to life in prison without parole.

It was then that investigators started looking at Hupp for the murder of Russ's wife, Betsy.

There was a new prosecutor in office, and he didn't just dust off the Betsy Faria case file.

He launched an internal investigation into allegations of misconduct by the former prosecutor and law enforcement who handled the case, including Michael Merkel, that former sheriff's deputy who appeared in court this week.

We've asked Dateline producer Christine Fillmore, who's been covering this story for more than 10 years, to come on the show to bring us up to speed.

Later, we'll be joined by Russ Faria himself, who will tell us what it was like to go back to court.

Hi, Andrea.

Christine, fill us in on Michael Merkel.

What role did he play in the investigation?

So Merkel was a detective at the Lincoln County Sheriff's Office, and he was one of the first investigators to arrive at the scene of Betsy Faria's murder in 2011.

And he took the stand at both of Russ Faria's trials to talk about the investigation.

Merkel has been accused of committing perjury at Russ's first trial.

Christine, first, let's start with the main points of his testimony that are under scrutiny.

Yeah, so Merkel testified about his use of Blue Star, which is similar to luminol.

It's the solution that you spray onto surfaces to test for the presence of blood.

And it can also react to certain cleaning agents as well.

And so Merkel said when he sprayed the chemical inside of the Faria home,

there was a positive reaction on the floor and it showed a path in the direction of the back door.

And there was a reaction on the kitchen drawer that contained hand towels.

Okay, so how did that make Russ Faria look guilty?

Why did that matter?

Well, it mattered because to the prosecutor at the time, this test result showed evidence of a cleanup indicating someone went into the kitchen where they accessed the towel drawer.

And the prosecutor argued only someone who lived in that house would have known where the towel drawer was located.

And Russ Faria lived lived in that house because he was Betsy's husband.

Yep.

And they also presented a theory that the dog was inside the home during the murder.

And that was based on what looked like a bloody paw print on Betsy's pants.

The prosecutor said Russ put the dog outside after the murder and then tried to clean up.

And that's why the presence of blood near the back door was important to their theory.

It all pointed to Russ.

So what did Michael Merkel get wrong, according to the new prosecutor, Mike Wood?

Merkel testified that he photographed the blue luminescent reaction, but he said that the camera malfunctioned and the photo showed absolutely nothing when, in fact, it captured 132 images.

Who found that out that it actually captured the images, unlike what he said?

So that's interesting.

It wasn't until shortly before Russ's retrial that the defense attorney received an anonymous envelope with a disc.

And it had, yeah, it had all 132 images.

And what was on the images that worked in Russ Ferria's favor?

According to the now prosecutor, they didn't show evidence of a cleanup.

So is the prosecutor then alleging that the former deputy Merkel lied on purpose?

Yes.

The prosecutor told me he believes Merkel lied about the camera because the photos didn't show what he put in his report.

They didn't support evidence of a cleanup.

And Merkel Merkel is denying this?

He's pleaded not guilty to perjury.

Christine, what is the motive here?

Why does the prosecutor believe Merkel lied?

Well, Prosecutor Wood told Dateline, I've always held the opinion that this was an orchestrated and well-organized effort among all of law enforcement to manipulate and secrete evidence in order to secure conviction against Russ Faria.

Yeah, and we already mentioned the internal investigation the new prosecutor launched into how investigators investigators handled the Betsy Faria case.

Christine, it turns out these perjury charges aren't the first time Merkel has caught Wood's attention.

That's right.

So, before Merkel was charged with perjury, this was back in 2022.

He was charged with stalking and harassing the lead detective who was in charge of the internal investigation.

And the prosecutor believes it was in hopes of preventing the internal investigation from moving forward.

He's pleaded not guilty to those charges as well and was out on bond awaiting trial when these latest perjury charges came down.

And we should say the internal investigation isn't complete.

Prosecutor Wood told us that there will be more charges to come for other members of law enforcement in the next few months.

Christine, you've also spoken to Merkel's defense attorney.

What was his response to these perjury charges?

He says his client is going to be completely exonerated, and he called the perjury charges a political stunt.

Thanks, Christine.

Now we're going to hear from Russ.

So Russ, tell us what it was like to attend Michael Merkel's hearing and see him in handcuffs.

Well, it was quite refreshing, actually, to

kind of be a part of it and to realize that this is actually happening.

His lawyer was trying to argue that the crime was victimless, which I disagree with wholeheartedly.

Of course, because if the prosecutor is right, you are a victim.

And that's exactly what the prosecutor was arguing.

Went as far as to point me out in the courtroom and just

tell the judge and the attorneys present, you know, ask this man if he doesn't think he was a victim.

Russ, you've been living with this every day for more than 13 years.

What has life been like for you recently?

Well,

I got married in October of 23.

Congrats.

I run a local motorcycle shop.

I just go out and have fun and trying to put pieces back together and live a normal life.

You are still waiting for justice in Betsy's case.

Pam Hup is scheduled for trial in August 2026.

She has pleaded not guilty.

Do you plan to be at the trial?

I'm planning on being at the trial.

I've also in contact with Mike with the prosecutor, and he expects to call me as a witness in the trial.

All right.

Russ, thank you for your time today.

Well, thanks a lot for the opportunity to come on.

Up next, it's time for Dateline Roundup.

We've got the dramatic testimony of the prosecution's star witness at the trial of former Major League Baseball player Dan Serafini.

Plus, NBC News legal analyst Danny Savalos on what he says is one of the most important and least discussed parts of a trial.

Jury instructions.

Bubba Wallace here with Tyler Reddick.

You know what's more nerve-wracking than waiting for qualifying results?

Waiting for the green flag to drop.

Instead of pacing, you rev up with Chumba Casino's weekly new releases.

It's like a fresh set of tires for your brain.

Play for free at chumbacasino.com.

That's chumba.

No purchase necessary.

VGW Group Void where prohibited by law.

CTNCs 21 Plus, sponsored by Chumba Casino.

Fun fact, you can't get pregnant every day.

You're only fertile for six days, ovulation day and the five days leading up to it.

Natural Cycles is the only birth control app that can pinpoint your fertile window by analyzing your hormone-driven temperature trends.

It's more than just a basic cycle tracking app.

Natural Cycles is the only FDA cleared and CE marked birth control app and has helped millions prevent and plan for pregnancy naturally.

Save 15% when you sign up today with code RADIO15.

Learn more at naturalcycles.com.

Hi, we're Emochi Health, your long-term weight loss solution.

We'll connect you with a board-certified provider to discuss your unique goals.

Eligible patients can access custom formulated GLP-1 medications at an affordable fixed price, delivered to their door monthly.

Take our free eligibility quiz at joinmochi.com and use code AUDIO40 at checkout for $40 off your first month of membership.

That's joinmochi.com.

Results may vary.

Eligible GLP-1 patients typically lose £1 to £2 per week in their first six months with Mochi when combined with a healthy lifestyle.

Welcome back.

For this week's roundup, we're joined by Dateline Digital producer Veronica Mazeka.

Hey, Veronica.

Hi, thanks for having me.

So, Veronica, first up, we are checking back in on the murder trial of former Major League Baseball pitcher Dan Serafini.

He is accused of the 2021 murder of his father-in-law, Gary Spohr, and the attempted murder of his mother-in-law, Wendy Wood, at their Lake Tahoe home.

He has pleaded not guilty.

So, Veronica, key witness is on the stand this week.

Yeah, that's right.

We are talking about Samantha Scott.

She is the woman who pleaded guilty earlier this year to being an accessory to the crime, saying that she was the one who drove Sera Feeney to his in-law's house the day of the attack.

She gave a pretty detailed description of what Serafini had with him that day.

Yes, she testified that he had a gun and a homemade silencer inside a backpack.

He also had a face mask.

So that's interesting because the man caught on surveillance camera.

If you'll recall, there was surveillance video of a man walking up the victim's driveway into their home just hours before the shooting.

And that man had a backpack.

That's right.

Samantha Scott testified that she didn't know about Serafini's alleged plans to murder his in-laws that day.

Did she say when she started to get suspicious of what was happening?

So the shootings were in June, and she said that over the summer, her concerns began to grow.

She testified that Dan eventually confessed and threatened her not to tell anyone.

He even said he would harm her family.

Something else we learned this week, Veronica, Samantha Scott testified about when she and Serafini became lovers.

According to her testimony, she says that didn't happen until after the murder.

Yes.

She said it was a few months later, and it was on and off until her arrest.

When the prosecutor asked her if she still loved Serafine, she couldn't give a straight answer.

All right, so Samantha Scott will be back on the stand for cross-examination by Serafine's defense attorney, and we'll keep an eye on that.

Next up, we're back in Arizona at Lori Vallo-Daybell's third trial.

She is accused of conspiring to kill Brandon Boudreaux, her niece's former husband.

She has pleaded not guilty and is representing herself at trial.

Brandon himself testified at the end of last week.

Veronica, what was that like hearing from him?

So Boudreaux was the prosecution's first witness, and he described the day.

He said he dropped his kids off at school, was heading home from the gym and noticed a green jeep.

And then the back window pops up.

I see a muzzle.

I hear a bang.

And so I just immediately thought someone's shooting at me.

Wow, that is scary.

Also, last week, Veronica, in a pretty tense exchange, the judge removed Lori from the courtroom.

What happened there?

There was an exchange outside the presence of the jury, and it involved Lori demanding a hearing to introduce character evidence, specifically pertaining to her being a good person.

And here's what the judge had to say about that.

If you're going to introduce how you have great character and good character, we're going to have a short hearing on what evidence that they can bring in to rebut that character, which could include being convicted of four murders.

So would you talk to your advisory counsel during the break?

You don't need to yell at me either.

Yeah, you are.

And you do not need to talk to me that way.

I'm very courteous.

I'm very courteous to you.

No, you have been nothing.

near courteous to me during the course of these proceedings.

And it all ended with her being escorted out of the courtroom.

Wow.

This week things have been a little calmer and the state got through all of its witnesses.

Lori Vallo Daybell didn't call any witnesses, so it seems like this trial will end soon.

Thank you so much for all this great information.

We appreciate it.

Thanks for having me.

As we mentioned earlier, closing arguments are set to begin this week and Karen Reed's retrial.

That means pretty soon a jury of six men and six women will get the case to start deliberating.

But before that can happen, Judge Beverly Kanoni will read their jury instructions.

Jury instruction is a part of the trial we don't really talk too much about, but according to NBC News legal analyst and defense attorney Danny Savalos, it can be a pivotal moment.

If anything goes wrong with the instructions, they can be grounds for a mistrial or even an acquittal.

Danny is here to tell us more.

Hey, Danny.

Hey.

I know you're going to make this interesting, right?

Oh, yeah.

Well, jury instructions, you know, they are quietly, arguably, one of the most important, if not the most important moment in a trial.

And it's a part of trial that most people just don't see or hear about.

Simple but not simple question, Danny.

What are jury instructions?

Jury instructions are basically at the end of the case, the jury's heard all of these facts, all of this evidence, but they've heard nothing really about the law.

That's when the judge tells them what the law is, so that the jury now can take the facts that they've decided.

the evidence that they've heard, they try to apply it to the law as the judge gives it to them.

But jury instructions run from everything from the actual law on the charged crimes to things like if the defendant doesn't testify, you cannot hold that against her.

So there are a lot of jury instructions beyond just what the alleged crime is and the elements of that crime.

Yeah, and it's funny because for someone like me covering trials over the years, I've been there for many a jury instruction where you're like, oh, gosh, can we just be done with this?

You know, because you've been waiting so long for these deliberations to start.

Yes, jury instructions is one of those events that lasts a long time

and the attorneys are battling out over words.

And what happens is my last one in federal court took all day.

They excuse the jury and then we start hashing out and arguing over jury instructions.

And I have to tell you, it was the one moment in trial that I came the closest to getting held in contempt.

That's how contentious it can be.

And you realize that if you're not vigilant about every word that goes into jury instructions, you could win or lose a case.

So that would be a really important one for the defense, what you just mentioned, you know, that you cannot hold it against a defendant if they don't take the stand, because you don't want jurors thinking, oh, well, they must be guilty.

You know, they're not shouting from the rooftops that they're innocent.

It's arguably the most important one.

And other instructions like that, like the burden of beyond a reasonable doubt, those are very, very important for the defense.

What do you think is important to the prosecution during jury instructions?

I think that they're often given instructions about experts, you know, how they should weigh expert testimony.

We mentioned off the top, you know, that if there's a mistake with jury instructions, this could be a mistrial.

This could affect a later appeal.

What?

can go wrong with jury instructions that can blow up a trial?

Consider this, as much as academics and scholars and judges and attorneys make all these efforts to write jury instructions that educate the jury on what the law is in a clear, layman-style language, juries still have tons of questions about jury instructions.

And the general feeling among defense attorneys and prosecutors is that your best ground for appeal is some flaw in the jury instructions.

I've covered so many of these cases, and I didn't even realize that a lot of these appeals were because of jury instructions.

I always say you learn something new every day on Dateline or Dateline True Crime Weekly.

Let's bring it back to Karen Reed.

There's three charges on the table.

There's accusations of a cover-up that she's being framed.

What do you think is the most important element of the jury instructions for the prosecution and the defense?

For the defense, I think it's the burden of beyond a reasonable doubt.

Because what the defense did this time around, they're not going as heavy on the conspiracy theory.

My suspicion is that they will get up and argue that they have simply not proven that there is a collision beyond a reasonable doubt.

For the prosecution, as is usually the case, the elements of each crime will explain to the jury: look, the intent that you have to prove for some of these crimes is relatively low.

It's not necessarily a specific intend to kill in this manner.

So she can still be convicted.

And I think that's probably what helps the prosecution in this case.

Karen Reed's first trial ended in a mistrial.

Do you think that that will factor into these jury instructions and whatever, what each side is arguing, you know, to try to make sure that that doesn't happen again?

Right.

So, I mean, the fear during deliberation is that the jury will be hopelessly deadlocked.

And what you may see is something that defense attorneys generally don't like.

It's an instruction that they don't get at the beginning of instructions, but it's called in the federal system an Allen charge.

And it's basically an instruction that tells the jury, if they are deadlocked, hey, no other jury could do this better than you.

Go back and work harder and really try to come to a resolution.

All right, so Danny, thank you.

I knew you would make this interesting.

Thank you.

And jury instructions are interesting.

That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly.

To get ad-free listening for all of our podcasts, subscribe to Dateline Premium.

And make sure to check out the latest season of the Dateline Missing in America podcast.

Josh Mankowicz is back with six all-new episodes about missing persons cases around the country.

And in one case we cover this season, I might have encountered the missing person myself.

I had a strong sense when I heard her name that I had met your mom.

Wow.

Listen closely.

You could be the key to solving a mystery.

The first episode is out now wherever you get your podcasts.

And coming up this Friday on Dateline, I'm bringing you one of the most intriguing cases I've ever covered.

In 2001, 17-year-old Alyssa Turney went missing from her home in Phoenix, Arizona.

What ensued was a decades-long search for answers led by two determined siblings.

It made me think, maybe there's a chance my sister will get justice.

But what if justice meant tearing their family apart?

Watch my episode, The Day Alyssa Disappeared, this Friday on NBC at 9-8 Central.

Thanks for listening.

Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Frannie Kelly and Katie Ferguson.

Our associate producers are Carson Cummins and Caroline Casey.

Our senior producer is Liz Brown Kuriloff.

Veronica Mazeka is our digital producer.

Rick Kwan is our sound designer.

Original music by Jesse McGinty.

Bryson Barnes is head of audio production.

Paul Ryan is executive producer.

And Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline.

See you soon.

Bye.

Riley Herps from 2311 Racing checking in.

Got a break in between between team meetings?

Sounds like the perfect time for some fast-paced fun at Chumba Casino.

No waiting, just instant action to keep you going.

So next time you need to pick me up, fire it up and take a spin.

Play now at chumbacasino.com.

Let's chumba.

No purchase necessary.

VGW Group Void where prohibited by law.

CTNC's 21 Plus, sponsored by Chumba Casino.