Ben Stiller On His Parents’ Showbiz Marriage

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Speaker 3 This is fresh air. I'm Terry Gross.
My guest, Ben Stiller, has made a very personal documentary about his parents and what it was like to be their son.

Speaker 3 Ben's father, Jerry Stiller, co-starred on Seinfeld playing Frank Costanza, George's father. Ben's mother, Anne Mira, was an actress.

Speaker 3 Together, Ben's parents were known as the comedy duo Stiller and Mira. They were so popular in the 60s and 70s, they were on the Ed Sullivan show more than 30 times.

Speaker 3 Sometimes, Ben went with them to their appearances on TV talk shows and in nightclubs. In 2020, five years after Mira's death, Jerry Stiller died.

Speaker 3 While Ben was going through his father's possessions, he was stunned to discover, stashed away, many cassette and reel-to-reel audio recordings Jerry Stiller had made.

Speaker 3 They documented his life and his relationship with Anne, including recordings of conversations with Anne in which they had disagreements about their marriage and their act.

Speaker 3 Some of those conversations are included in the documentary, along with video clips of their sketches from their TV appearances.

Speaker 3 The documentary, Stiller and Mira, Nothing is Lost, is streaming on Apple TV.

Speaker 3 Ben Stiller has been famous for years as an actor, starring in such films as Zoolander, Meet the Parents, Night at the Museum, and their sequels, as well as Dodgeball, Tropic Thunder, and The Royal Tenenbaums.

Speaker 3 In the last few years, he's been doing more and more directing and producing. Now he's the executive producer and primary director of the popular Emmy Award-winning Apple TV series Severance.

Speaker 3 Let's start with a clip from the new documentary, Stiller and Mira, Nothing is Lost.

Speaker 3 This is an excerpt of one of the audio recordings of Ben's parents, rehearsing a sketch about how the couple they're portraying hate each other, not realizing that Ben's sister, who is then a child, is overhearing them thinking the argument is real.

Speaker 3 At the end of this recording, we'll hear Ben and his sister Amy looking back at that time.

Speaker 4 We have a sketch which we call hate.

Speaker 4 You know, I say to Anne, I hate you. She says, you hate me, I hate you.
And one day, Amy, who's six, came into the room and she heard us saying this to each other.

Speaker 4 And we looked at her for a moment and we didn't know what to say. So we said, Amy, mommy, daddy, rehearse.
Mommy, daddy, rehearse. And Amy looked at us and she started to smile.

Speaker 4 Well, about two weeks later, we were fighting.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 5 Amy walked in and she said, Mommy, daddy, rehearse?

Speaker 3 No, mommy, daddy, fight.

Speaker 5 Get out of here. It gets to be a little complicated sometimes.

Speaker 5 I hated you before I met you. I hated you before you were born.

Speaker 4 To me, that's like one of the things that I think about is just how that became sort of like, yeah, that's the laugh, that's the funny joke. But what is the reality of that story, though?

Speaker 3 We don't know, Ben. That's why we're so messed up.

Speaker 8 That's why we're doing this documentary.

Speaker 3 That's why we're going to figure it out. So those last two voices were Ben Stiller and his sister, Amy.

Speaker 3 Ben Stiller, welcome back to Fresh Air. This is a really

Speaker 3 probing, emotionally deep movie. I really, really liked it.
So the clip that we open with is your sister not being able to tell sometimes what was a real fight and what was a rehearsal for a sketch.

Speaker 3 Did you experience anything like that?

Speaker 2 Yeah, nice to be with you, Terry. Yeah.

Speaker 2 In this apartment that we lived in, they had a living room. We called it the big living room.
It wasn't that big, but that they would use as their office when we were younger.

Speaker 2 And then I think when I was like 13 or 14, they got an office on 57th Street. But most of the time, they'd been in this office in the apartment working.

Speaker 2 So we would just hear them, you know, doing their thing in there. And sometimes their voices would be raised.
And yeah, sometimes there were arguments that happened.

Speaker 2 And it was kind of just like part of our lives. It was like, yeah, mom and dad are doing their thing in there.
And

Speaker 2 as a kid, I don't think you question these things. It's just like what your parents do.

Speaker 3 So a lot of people know your father, Jerry Stiller, from Seinfeld, playing George's father, Frank Costanza, but they don't necessarily know Stiller and Mira routines.

Speaker 3 So I want to play one of their better-known ones that I think is really funny. And this goes back to the really early days of computer dating.

Speaker 3 And I think at this point, you didn't have your own computer.

Speaker 3 This is the period where you'd send in your information and they'd put it through a computer at the company and then send you back a match. Is that am I right in thinking that?

Speaker 2 I think so. I don't know how it worked, but it definitely was pre-personal computers in the 60s.

Speaker 3 Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 But I think the idea of a computer being able to match people up, that was the new thing that was happening.

Speaker 3 Aaron Powell, so this borrows from your parents' actual marriage, because your father is Jewish, your mother was Irish and Catholic, although she later converted to Judaism.

Speaker 3 So in this sketch, the computer dating service has set them up together. And

Speaker 3 your father's name in the sketch is Hershey Horowitz, and your mother's name in the sketch is Mary Elizabeth Doyle.

Speaker 8 Where are you from?

Speaker 9 Me, I'm from Flatbush.

Speaker 7 Oh, really? That's where I'm from.

Speaker 10 You're kidding? East 42nd Street.

Speaker 11 I live on East 42nd Street. Oh, that's amazing.

Speaker 9 That's my blog. Really?

Speaker 11 Hey, this computer really works.

Speaker 9 But gee, that's fun.

Speaker 11 Hey, you know Richie Flanagan? Richie Flanagan? You're a tall, skinny kid.

Speaker 5 No.

Speaker 10 Do you know Morris Goldstein?

Speaker 9 Goldstein? No, I don't know him.

Speaker 11 You know Mary Ellen Moriarty?

Speaker 10 Mary Ellen Moriarty, no.

Speaker 10 Do you know Moish Spader?

Speaker 10 Mo Shad? No, Moish Spader. Moish?

Speaker 9 No, no. I would remember.

Speaker 9 You know Elliot Blumenfeld? No, I don't know him.

Speaker 11 You know Danny McQueenie?

Speaker 9 No.

Speaker 7 Timothy Sheehee? No.

Speaker 11 Tommy Toohey? No.

Speaker 9 Stanley Austin? No, I don't know him. Edel Fausman?

Speaker 11 No. Xavier Duffy?

Speaker 9 No.

Speaker 10 Mike Schoenfeld.

Speaker 9 Grace Mary McGinnity? Raylan Kish. Kathleen Hall.
No.

Speaker 7 Sis Hall.

Speaker 9 Junior Hall. Mike Hall.

Speaker 7 Marguerite Hall.

Speaker 9 Raymond Hall. You don't know the Halls?

Speaker 7 No.

Speaker 10 You know Seymour Aaron Price?

Speaker 9 No, I don't know him.

Speaker 10 You know the Lepson brothers?

Speaker 7 No, I don't know them.

Speaker 10 Audi and Jerry.

Speaker 11 You know the Monaghan twins, Maureen and Moira?

Speaker 7 No.

Speaker 10 That's a pretty big block there, these 47s.

Speaker 2 Those were all my mother's cousins, she was naming.

Speaker 3 Oh, no, really? That's so funny.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. You know, it's interesting.
I don't know if the listeners heard this, but my headphones, I could hear you laughing during the sketch. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And you must have heard it like hundreds of times.

Speaker 3 But the timing is so good, and it's so funny.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was fun. I mean, it's just something about, you know, just the concept of the sketch that they're from such different worlds, and those names are so specific, it just makes me laugh.

Speaker 2 And yeah, still funny to me.

Speaker 3 There were conflicts that existed in your parents' marriage that also existed in their working relationship.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 your parents had really different approaches to performing and different levels of anxiety.

Speaker 3 And before I play a clip that kind of illustrates some of that, I want you to explain what some of the differences were that would get in the way of both performances performances and the marriage.

Speaker 2 Well, I think the core difference was that my dad really wanted to do comedy, and I'm not sure my mom really wanted to.

Speaker 3 Because she was a dramatic actress before doing comedy.

Speaker 2 Aaron Powell, yeah. She was studying with Udahagen, you know, HB Studios in the village, and a teacher named Alfred Linder, I remember, she talked about, and was very committed to

Speaker 2 being a dramatic actress. And then my dad dreamed of being Eddie Cantor and

Speaker 2 being a stand-up. And both of them grew up during the Depression.
And I think for my dad, that was his beacon, his way out were these comedians.

Speaker 2 And he had this drive that I'm amazed at what he had to do to get out of that Lower East Side tenement and realize

Speaker 2 his goal of doing this, which he did. And when he met my mom, I think he

Speaker 2 fell in love with her and creatively he was just so connected to her and he saw her brilliance and how good she was at acting and also he knew she was funny.

Speaker 2 Maybe it was just in them interacting with each other. And he drew her into doing this comedy act.
They'd been living together for seven or eight years, married and were starving actors.

Speaker 2 He had this idea to take their situation and turn it into

Speaker 2 these little little sketches. And that changed their lives.
But my mother really never had that dream. So in approaching

Speaker 2 going on stage, and this is the irony, I think it's really,

Speaker 2 it's always fascinated me, is that my mother was naturally great at live performing. And I feel that my father

Speaker 2 had to work at it more. So that was sort of always the dynamic throughout their whole lives when they would approach having to perform.
The preparation was very different.

Speaker 3 And he seemed more anxious about performing, even

Speaker 2 well, I think he loved to perform, but he needed to just rehearse and go over it again and again.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I think of myself, I don't love live performing. I think I'm probably maybe a little more like my dad that way.

Speaker 2 And my mom was much more, I don't know, she just would kind of go out there and go with it and had just

Speaker 2 the sort of natural ability to be on stage and let it happen happen and

Speaker 2 be comfortable on stage.

Speaker 3 So, I want to play one of the recordings that your father made. And this is after a show that went well.

Speaker 3 And your mother is being very critical of your father in this, and she speaks first.

Speaker 3 Is it a good show?

Speaker 3 Do you have any idea why you are? Because you were there.

Speaker 3 I know the work and how people respond to you and how great your performances are under these conditions no matter what you are always there.

Speaker 6 I know all this

Speaker 12 I'm aware of it. And then at the end, when things go halfway decently,

Speaker 12 your relief is embarrassing. It's like you're just,

Speaker 12 oh God, God, it was so great. It was so, you know.

Speaker 12 How do you go over how you're thought of as a good guy?

Speaker 6 I do want to be thought of as a good guy, yes.

Speaker 6 I know. It it doesn't clutter my mind, and

Speaker 6 you know, we're looked upon very lovingly by people. Nobody's going out there.
Look at that.

Speaker 6 What?

Speaker 12 Before either of us leaves this planet, there has to be some way you can get an authentic sense of yourself without worrying how you're perceived. It is

Speaker 12 joyless.

Speaker 12 Absolutely joyless.

Speaker 3 So your mother basically says that your father is too worried about how he's perceived. Yeah.
And, you know, he needs to be loved by everybody. Is that something you sensed?

Speaker 2 Yeah. You know, I think most actors have a certain sense of wanting approval.
You know, you want people to like what you do, and you can't really control that.

Speaker 2 And the question, of course, in life is how much you care about that or not.

Speaker 2 And he would talk about this too. He'd talk about it very openly.

Speaker 2 I would need that love from the audience. And I mean, you know, it's kind of armchair psychology.
But, you know, he had a couple of parents who he didn't get a lot of nurturing from when he was a kid.

Speaker 2 They fought a lot and they were very poor and nobody was encouraging him to go into show business.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 2 he found.

Speaker 2 He found that that acceptance when he went into the theater, he went to Syracuse University and he performed in plays and he

Speaker 2 found his people and found this warmth and acceptance in the theater. And

Speaker 2 he was always

Speaker 2 connecting with people. I think he loved talking to people.
He loved when fans would come up and

Speaker 2 say hi to him. And it meant something to him.
And my mother had a very different relationship with it.

Speaker 3 What were some of the fun parts for you of having celebrity parents? And then we'll get to the downside.

Speaker 2 I mean, there wasn't, honestly, it was a lot of fun. It's so interesting because when you really analyze it to think about what the downside was, at the time, there wasn't a downside for us as kids.

Speaker 2 We were just living in this world where my parents would go out and either they go out late and play a nightclub.

Speaker 2 I remember when they played nightclubs in New York, and that was really exciting for us. We get to stay up late, hang out with the grown-ups, interesting, funny people coming in and out of the house.

Speaker 2 You know, they would have these New Year's Eve parties, my parents, at their apartment in the late 70s and into the 80s that were just, you know, amazing. And as kids, it was really fun to be around.

Speaker 2 I loved going on sets when they would go out to L.A. if they would do a show like Courtship of Eddie's Father or to be on the Paramount Studios lot.
And for me, it made me want to

Speaker 2 make movies.

Speaker 2 Being around that, it was very clear early on this is that that's what I wanted to do. So it was a lot of fun times and more interesting to my sister and I than school, for sure.

Speaker 3 You and your sister Amy were on talk shows with your parents. And once you even played, was this with Mike Douglas that you played a violin duet of chopsticks with her?

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. It was, I would say,

Speaker 3 there's cutaways to your parents laughing as you both play violin and perform.

Speaker 3 And I bet you didn't know at the time that they were laughing.

Speaker 2 I mean, I'd look at their faces because basically what they, you know, they were co-hosting the Mike Douglas show.

Speaker 2 And what that meant was they would sit there with him as all the other guests came on. And they would do a week of shows in one day down in Philadelphia.
And so they would send a limousine.

Speaker 2 Again, this was very exciting for us as kids. They'd send a limousine up to New York and we'd go down with my parents in the limo.
They'd do two shows in the morning.

Speaker 2 We'd go to a restaurant called Bookbinders for lunch that I remember as a kid where they had lobsters in a tank and it was just all very, you know, really exciting.

Speaker 2 Then they go do the other shows and go home. And I guess one time they brought us on, you know, because they were just looking for bits to do.

Speaker 2 And I think when I watch them laughing, I see them laughing, but also like inside because we're so not good.

Speaker 2 But they're like, oh, this is, all right, the audience is enjoying this, but we're kind of like, oh, I want my kids to do good.

Speaker 2 And also like, why did we put them in this situation? I feel all that when I look at their faces.

Speaker 3 Well speaking of putting you in that situation, were there times that you were uncomfortable being on the talk show set and being asked questions by whoever was hosting that particular show?

Speaker 3 Because

Speaker 3 I kind of question whether it's fair to the kids to put them in something that they're too young to understand,

Speaker 3 what it means to be on TV and what the consequences or what the upside might be.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, I even did it with my daughter, and I have that in the movie, too, where I put her in Secret Life of Walter Mitty when she was eight, and then I cut the part out, which I don't recommend ever doing that with your kid.

Speaker 2 But I put her in the middle of the moment.

Speaker 2 Well, I put her in the movie, and then I cut the scene out of the movie because the scene wasn't

Speaker 2 right for the movie. But of course,

Speaker 2 my daughter remembers that I cut her out when she was eight years old. But it was the same feeling, though, on the set.
You put a kid in that situation as it was happening.

Speaker 2 I'm like, oh man, this is so much pressure on her and then I was feeling the pressure too and I'm sure that's what my parents are feeling at the time but not thinking it through I think that at the time they just are like yeah this would be a fun thing to do and we probably said to them yeah yeah we want to do it we want to do it you know not thinking of what the implications could be in terms of you know psychological trauma years later

Speaker 2 what were the consequences I mean I don't feel like I was traumatized from that experience

Speaker 2 but I remember other little things I mean when you're a kid things like that obviously affect you on a deep level. You just, you know, it's how you process it later, and sometimes you don't realize.

Speaker 2 I remember just thinking about being on a game show set, I remember when my parents were doing the $10,000 pyramid once, and they had this area on the set called the winner's circle, where you go for the final round, and they had two chairs where the, you know, the contestant and the star would sit opposite each other and there were microphones set up.

Speaker 2 And I remember at lunchtime, I went down to the winner's circle and sat in the chair and I touched the microphone and the microphone moved.

Speaker 2 And then a stage manager or someone yelled at me and said, hey, hey, don't move that. That microphone was set for, you know, whichever actor was there.

Speaker 2 And that, I've remembered my whole life as being traumatized by that. So like things like that when you're a kid in a grown-up situation can really affect you.

Speaker 3 You think that your mother was not always comfortable with being a mother, that she found it kind of stressful, and you think that's in part because she lost her mother when she was 10.

Speaker 3 You know, during her part of her formative years, she didn't have a mother who she could later model herself on or decide, I'm not going to do it that way, I'm going to do it my way.

Speaker 3 Did you sense that discomfort when you were a child?

Speaker 2 Yeah, and she talked about it a lot when she was older. Yeah, that she lost her mom when she was about 10.
She was an only child.

Speaker 2 This was in 1941, I think.

Speaker 2 And she, you know, I think it was a really lonely, tough childhood for her. Her dad loved her and did as much as he could for her.
But I think when she finally had kids, she was daunted by

Speaker 2 how to be a mom. And then, of course, having to then balance that with the performing.

Speaker 2 She wanted to have kids, but then, you know, when she also had to do all of this high-pressure live performing when the kids were at such a young age, I can imagine that was a really, really hard thing for her.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I sensed it,

Speaker 2 you know, subconsciously, I think, as a kid. Of course, you just absorb everything from your parents when you're a kid and when you're around them.

Speaker 2 So stuff that you are aware of, stuff you're not aware of. And I felt it.
I felt the tension with her and my dad when they would be,

Speaker 2 you know, getting ready to perform.

Speaker 2 And, you know, I talk about the drinking in the movie. You know, that was something that, you know, wasn't discussed in our house.

Speaker 2 And I think it was because my dad didn't really know how to deal with that.

Speaker 2 And he was trying the best he could to figure out how to manage this relationship and this, you know, this marriage and this working relationship that was their livelihood. So

Speaker 2 we sensed it, but it was, you stuff that I kind of processed later in life.

Speaker 3 My guest is director, actor, and producer Ben Stiller. His new documentary about his late parents, Stiller and Mira, Nothing is Lost, is streaming on Apple TV.
We'll talk more after a break.

Speaker 3 I'm Terry Gross, and this is Fresh Air.

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Speaker 3 So, you really enjoyed going to clubs where your parents were performing or to the Ed Sullivan Show, but also, although you loved hanging out with your parents and the other stars, one of the tough parts of having parents in a comedy duo was that they were gone a lot.

Speaker 3 They toured a lot. You're on the Ed Sullivan Show

Speaker 3 over 30 times and you're going to get booked all over the country.

Speaker 3 So they became pretty famous. I remember seeing them on Ed Sullivan.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 you were without your parents a good deal of the time, and the person who was with you was your nanny who partly raised you.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 what was your life like when they were gone? How did that absence affect you?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So Hazel Hugh was our nanny. Hazel took care of us and was, you know, basically since I think the time that I was

Speaker 2 probably about four years old. And she was from Jamaica and she had seven kids of her own.
And they lived in Brooklyn.

Speaker 2 And we became very close with her family, with her kids, because they were, you know, some of them were Amy and my age. And

Speaker 2 my parents would go away for like a two-week stint to LA to do whichever show,

Speaker 2 game show or Love Boat or whatever it was. And, you know, Hazel was, you know, she was so sweet.
She knew she had to be the disciplinarian and keep us in line.

Speaker 2 But we would also kind of have our own secret world going on, my sister and I. And it was kind of like a free-for-all a little bit when we were on our own.

Speaker 2 You know, we'd stay up late sometimes, try to sneak out. And as we got older and became teenagers, you know, then there were other things going on.

Speaker 2 Like my sister started going to Studio 54 when she was, I think she was like 17. And

Speaker 2 I guess I can talk about this, Terry, now.

Speaker 2 I was 13,

Speaker 2 and she would take me to Studio 54 with her friends, and we'd sneak us in.

Speaker 3 How did you get into Studio 54?

Speaker 2 You know what Studio 54, like the whole thing was outside.

Speaker 2 There's like people waiting to get in, right? The bouncers have to choose you.

Speaker 3 Yeah, Yeah, part of it depended on how attractive you were.

Speaker 2 Exactly. And how they were curating the night, right? And this guy, Mark, was the main bouncer.
Somehow, Amy, my sister, and her friend Vicki, they had gotten in with him.

Speaker 2 And, you know, it's a question.

Speaker 2 Amy and I have talked about whether or not he knew that our parents were, you know, still Armira. Maybe that had something to do with it.
I don't know. But he would pick them to go in.

Speaker 2 And one night, Amy said to me Amy and Vicki said like we're gonna dress you up and we're gonna take you to studio 54 we're gonna get you in this is when my parents were out of town and

Speaker 2 they put me in a yellow and green polka dotted Fioruchi shirt Fioruchi was the store at the time that was like the cool fashion store and an army jacket and these Mickey Mouse sunglasses and we went up and and Mark saw us and he like pointed to us and like you know said come on in and we were in and it happened a few times so now I think I was 13.

Speaker 3 Well, one of the things Studio 54 was famous for was people doing a lot of coke.

Speaker 3 What did you see that you probably shouldn't have been exposed to?

Speaker 2 I mean, I don't remember seeing people like doing stuff like that in the bathrooms or like, you know, but I remember being in the upper, the balcony and seeing there were like people making out.

Speaker 2 The average white band. I remember talking to the average white band there.

Speaker 3 And for people who don't know the band, that's the name of the band.

Speaker 2 The average white band was a band of white bands.

Speaker 3 I'm not calling the band of white people average. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But,

Speaker 2 I mean, I remember dancing too and being really into dancing there. And yeah, it was a little bit, you know, look, it was definitely, you know, the kind of like feral kids out on our own, you know.

Speaker 3 Did your parents ever find out some of the things you did when they were gone?

Speaker 2 Yeah, they did.

Speaker 2 I talked about this on a talk show once, too. I took LSD when my parents were out doing the love vote once.

Speaker 3 I love the comparison between the love vote and you being on a hallucinogenic.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I was the guy who called his parents on LSD. I called them up in LA because I was scared.
I was having a bad trip. And

Speaker 2 the only time I ever did LSD. And

Speaker 2 I talked to him. And my mom was really, got really mad at me.
And my dad was actually much nicer and kind of tried to help talk me down. And he said, I understand what you're going through.

Speaker 2 When I was 11 years old, I smoked a pell-mill cigarette and I was sick for two days. And I was like, no, dad, you don't understand.

Speaker 2 I don't understand what reality is.

Speaker 2 But he was great. He was actually great about it.

Speaker 3 And talking you down?

Speaker 2 Yeah, no.

Speaker 2 And I was like freaked out a little for a while afterwards. I was scared, you know, from the experience.
And my dad was so great.

Speaker 2 I remember he took me for a drive and he parked the car and he said, Let's just meditate a little bit. And he had me close my eyes and just picture a color.
I think it was like purple or something.

Speaker 2 He said, just like think of it as a soothing color. And I don't know if he had been doing some therapy himself that he had this idea to do this.

Speaker 2 But he was just actually really trying to help me kind of

Speaker 2 soothe myself and get over this event. And as opposed to a parent who was like, you know, like, never do that again.
And, you know, you're grounded or whatever.

Speaker 3 Trevor Burrus, Jr.: I think it's wonderful that you felt comfortable enough with your father to call him while you were tripping.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, that's interesting, you know, because that's one of those things you don't think about. It's just like this visceral gut reaction, and that's what I did.

Speaker 2 And I, you know, I guess that does say something about our relationship.

Speaker 2 But he was always, for me, a very spiritual person and very, I think that's what people connected with him too, because he had just like a really open heart.

Speaker 3 There's a scene in the movie that's a real standout scene.

Speaker 3 You're talking to your son, who's kind of interviewing you during part of the film, so that you can tell stories and be telling them to someone, and not only someone, to your own son.

Speaker 3 And so you're telling him about how weird it was for you when

Speaker 3 you were having a conversation

Speaker 2 with

Speaker 3 your father and a fan would come up and interrupt the conversation and your father would pay attention to the fan.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I was talking to my son about how, yeah, growing up with my parents,

Speaker 2 they would get recognized. And on the street, my mom usually wouldn't want to talk to people for a long time, or she'd say hi, but she wanted to just go on, you know, and just keep doing her thing.

Speaker 2 And my dad would talk to people forever. Like, if someone wanted to talk to him,

Speaker 2 he would get into conversations about their family, and it would just go on and on. It used to drive my mother crazy.
And as kids, we would feel that

Speaker 2 when you're little, you feel that

Speaker 2 your parents' attention being taken away from you. So I was talking about that with Quinn, my son, and he interrupts me.
And

Speaker 3 we'll play what he has to say. Okay, so here's Quinn.

Speaker 8 Well, that's actually hilarious because just a few weeks ago, we were all out at a restaurant and I had been stressed about college stuff.

Speaker 8 And then the people there wanted to get like a picture with you. And then I just remember I was so frustrated, like, the world just has to stop to get this picture.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? I think I got

Speaker 3 so, Ben Stiller, what was it like when your son told you that?

Speaker 2 I was surprised, yet not surprised. I was surprised that he actually brought that up in that moment and that the example he was using was so recent.

Speaker 2 But it was, and in that moment, I was like, okay, this is actually probably a really good moment for the movie. But I also, as a person, was feeling like, oh, this is really

Speaker 2 ugh. Gosh.

Speaker 2 And all I could say in the moment was like, oh, yeah, I guess I have like a lot of my dad in me, or more of my dad in me than my mom.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 it's just that realization that, and it wasn't a new realization for me, but, you know, that thing of like, you really try to do better than your parents, but it's very hard to not make some of the same mistakes.

Speaker 2 that they make.

Speaker 3 Were you even aware that you were doing that?

Speaker 2 I wasn't aware. No, I was not.
You know, What surprised me about what he said was because he's 20, that that had happened like he said like last week.

Speaker 2 And I thought, well, this is something that happened when he was little, you know?

Speaker 2 But the fact that

Speaker 2 it actually affected him still at this age, you know, that actually really did hit me. You know, just as an awareness of like, yeah, this is a reality that he had to live with.

Speaker 2 I had to live with my own version of it with my parents.

Speaker 2 But it's a tough thing.

Speaker 3 If you're just joining us, my guest is actor, director, and producer Ben Stiller. His new documentary about his parents is called Stiller and Mira, Nothing is Lost.

Speaker 3 He's also an executive producer and primary director of the TV series Severance. The documentary and Severance are streaming on Apple TV.
More after a break. This is fresh air.

Speaker 13 This message comes from Vital Farms, who works with small American farms to bring you pasture-raised eggs. Farmer Tanner Pace describes what makes a pasture-raised egg unique.

Speaker 14 Before we first started with Vital Farms, I thought, you know, an egg's an egg, not a big deal, but it's hard for me to even eat an egg that's not a vital farm egg.

Speaker 14 Now, vital farms eggs are usually brown to lighter brown in color. And when you crack a pasture-raised egg,

Speaker 14 you have to hit it harder than what a person thinks just because the shell quality is so good.

Speaker 14 And basically when that egg cracks in the skillet or bowl, that yolk is almost kind of an orange shade. and that is part of what I love about a vital egg is just the shade of yolk.

Speaker 14 I love pasteurised eggs because you can see the work and the pride that the farmers have and have put into these eggs.

Speaker 13 To learn more about how vital farms farmers care for their hens, visit vitalfarms.com.

Speaker 3 Your father's amazing breakthrough came when he was 65 and got cast on Seinfeld as Frank Costanza, George Costanza's father.

Speaker 3 I mean, that show was so popular and he was such a great character and such a great actor doing that character. How did that change your perception of him?

Speaker 2 I mean, it was life-changing for him.

Speaker 3 Oh, I can imagine. Yeah.
Because especially if he wanted to be loved by as many people as possible,

Speaker 3 he got on the right show.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's funny. He was a very lovable guy, and I think people just loved seeing him and seeing him let out all this emotion and kind of this tamped up rage that he had inside in a very funny way.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 the fame that it brought him, because Seinfeld was such a phenomenon, it was like nothing he had ever experienced before.

Speaker 2 And it was fulfilling for him, I think, a childhood dream of being someone who could be funny on his own. I think he knew that he needed my mom in the act, and that was how they had found success.

Speaker 2 But I think inside he always and he said it he says it in the documentary I always wanted to do a single so this was his opportunity to do that for me I was kind of just starting to experience success on my own so I was happy that my dad was working and that he was in this show that was such a phenomenon.

Speaker 2 You know, there was never competition between us.

Speaker 2 You know, not that you're asking me about this, but it was just an interesting time because I've been asked before, like, was my dad ever, did he ever feel competitive with me when I started to have my career?

Speaker 2 And I never, ever felt that from him. But I think for me, as I was starting out, I was like seeing my dad have this success.
And I was like, oh, wow, my dad's, you know, he's doing his thing too.

Speaker 2 And so, you know, my mom was the one who sort of was, I think, having to deal with not having that kind of success at that point.

Speaker 2 But for her, I don't think it was as, you know, as important a thing and as relevant to her own personal happiness, though I think she would have liked to have worked more as an actor. Aaron Powell,

Speaker 3 you say in the film that

Speaker 3 your mother stopped drinking and stopped smoking once your father was having such success on Seinfeld. What's the connection?

Speaker 2 I don't know if there was a connection. I think the smoking was just she had to stop smoking for her health.

Speaker 2 You know, her doctor said, you got to stop.

Speaker 2 And that's something I guess I wish I had had more foresight and interviewed my mom for this documentary before she passed away because I'm curious about what was the moment for her

Speaker 2 that she realized she needed to make a change.

Speaker 2 But she did, you know, get to a point where she just really wanted to deal with a lot of the issues that her whole life she had been having to deal with in terms of,

Speaker 2 I think, her guilt guilt about as a mom, not being able to be there as much.

Speaker 2 And yeah, the drinking too. And so it was amazing to see what she did.
And she would go to meetings every day and she would talk about that stuff.

Speaker 2 So I don't know what the impetus was or if it was connected to my dad's own success, but I think it was a personal choice for her.

Speaker 2 And, you know, she was always trying to grow as a person and she loved to read. She was a big reader.
She was very interested in alternate realities and quantum mechanics and

Speaker 2 time and space and all those things. And she wrote about that stuff too in her plays.

Speaker 3 Yeah, because she wrote plays as well, right? Yeah. She had a stroke and was fully paralyzed.
When was that?

Speaker 2 Well, she passed away 10 years ago and it was probably about

Speaker 2 two and a half years before she passed away.

Speaker 3 You say that she was able to laugh at your jokes, and you knew that she was there because of that.

Speaker 3 And also because of her eyes. You could tell that she was processing something.

Speaker 3 But what was your emotional reaction? It's hard to see somebody who you love

Speaker 3 suffering and, you know, having no control over anything.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think it's the worst thing that you can go through as a person.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 2 people people have to deal with this. We have a debilitating stroke where you literally can't really move at all, but yet

Speaker 2 she was in there and she was not able to communicate.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 it was very, very tough for everybody. And especially my mother was such a verbal person, such an incredibly sharp, smart, caustic, funny, sarcastic, and also very, very loving too.

Speaker 2 But she was articulate, and that was so much a part of who she was. So to have that taken away

Speaker 2 was tough. I think her true nature was incredibly sweet and loving, too.

Speaker 2 And that did come through, and that's what I felt, you know, those last couple years when she was having to deal with that. And she would laugh at funny stuff.

Speaker 2 So that would actually be, you know, was something that we were able to share.

Speaker 2 Sometimes Amy would like show old SC TV skits or I do a character or whatever. Like she would just, she really would instantly laugh and smile.
And

Speaker 2 I mean, you know, it was really tough.

Speaker 3 If you're just joining us, my guest is actor, director, and producer Ben Stiller. His new documentary about his parents is called Stiller and Mira, Nothing is is Lost.

Speaker 3 He's also an executive producer and primary director of the TV series Severance. The documentary and Severance are streaming on Apple TV.
More after a break. This is fresh air.

Speaker 1 Support for this podcast and the following message come from AmeriPrise Financial. Chief market strategist Anthony Saglambenny shares the importance of having a well-diversified portfolio.

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Speaker 1 For more information and important disclosures, visit AmeriPrise.com slash advice. AmeriPrise Financial cannot guarantee future financial results.

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Speaker 3 So you are

Speaker 3 a producer. of the series Severance.
It's your own production company that produces it, and you're the lead director on the series.

Speaker 3 So the story of severance, the concept is that there's this company called Lumen and when you work for this company, you have the option, or we think it's an option anyway, at least in the beginning we do, of having a procedure on your brain that severs the memories of your home life and the memories of your office life, so that when you're in the office,

Speaker 3 you know nothing about your home life. And when you're at home, you know nothing about your office life.
And so the premise goes right to

Speaker 3 home life and work-life balance, but it's also, and I find this really intriguing, it's also about the opposite of what your parents were because their home life and their professional life had no wall between them at all.

Speaker 3 So did you think about that? I mean, am I off track here? And did you think about that when you decided to take on producing this series?

Speaker 2 I honestly never once thought about it until you just said that.

Speaker 3 Really? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Honestly.

Speaker 2 It's interesting that I actually also started making the documentary at the beginning of when we started making Severance, too.

Speaker 2 Because I've been doing Severance for the last five and a half years, and

Speaker 2 that's the same time that I started, you know, that when my dad passed away, I started working on the dock. And I think,

Speaker 2 yeah, that's valid, you know, that idea, because there wasn't a separation there.

Speaker 2 And there's, you know, for creative people, you know, my parents had it almost, you know, like even more intense because it was their marriage, their relationship, and was also what their act was about.

Speaker 2 And they were also raising their kids, and they were working at home and doing this creative work. It's not like it's a nine-to-five thing.
You're always in it.

Speaker 2 You know, you're always thinking, like when inspiration hits you, you know, you follow that.

Speaker 2 Or they have to go on the road and go away for weeks to work, whatever that is.

Speaker 2 So I think that concept of the separation is actually really, you know, very interesting to me because it's something I've never had.

Speaker 2 And the idea also of

Speaker 2 cutting off your memory and your feelings about something

Speaker 2 is also, I think, something that's really relatable in that everybody wants to do that.

Speaker 2 So the tough thing is, yeah, I think when you're a creative person, is that you're never able to really shut it off

Speaker 2 or you have to learn how to shut it off or to not care about what you're, you know, working on in that moment and go hang out with the family.

Speaker 2 And that's something that I think my whole life, yeah, that was never, there was never a separation there.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I think this concept really fascinated me. But the part of it that really, I think that I resonated with was the idea of this metaphor, too, of

Speaker 2 for life, really. You know, of the idea of like these people who were severed were working in an office where they didn't know what they were doing, why they were there, or who they even were.

Speaker 2 Yet every day they go and do this job and leave and come back. And that to me is kind of a metaphor for life.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 that's the part of it that consciously I connected with. The other part I never even thought about, though.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and there's um

Speaker 3 I think it's in the first episode, an interesting line. You know, it turns out that the main character who's undergone the severance,

Speaker 3 he lost his wife

Speaker 3 not long ago, and and he's grieving. So it's easy to imagine that, you know,

Speaker 3 cutting off the memories of home life is b because those are such painful memories and

Speaker 3 because he was grieving and his

Speaker 3 sister says to him,

Speaker 3 forgetting isn't healing.

Speaker 3 You know, like shutting off your memories is not healing. You have to go through the grief.

Speaker 2 Aaron Ross Powell, yeah, and that's something that's not even a science fiction, you know, concept, the idea of

Speaker 2 just what we kind of have to do sometimes to survive and go forward and that makes me think about what we've just been talking about in terms of childhood memories I think about my mom you know losing her mom when she was a kid what she had to cut off and you know figure out how to so she could survive and go forward or the things you know me having to forget about you know

Speaker 2 whatever you know humiliating moment playing the violin you know as a kid all those things that we we do suppress and those like you know little moments that you just kind of go through life and you have to figure out how to assimilate them or suppress them.

Speaker 2 And then years and years later, they can still be there. And I think that's part of what the show is about:

Speaker 2 there's a question, like, does love transcend severance or does emotion transcend severance?

Speaker 2 I think that it's impossible not to have, you know, when you have these feelings and experiences and trauma and all those things inside of you, you know, you can just suppress them for so long, but they're going to come out in some way.

Speaker 2 And I think that idea is really a big part of what the show is about, too.

Speaker 3 You are a producer, a director, an actor. You just finished a documentary about your parents.

Speaker 3 So you're dealing with working with other actors, investigating your own family history, running a production company. How do you deal with all the stress of that? And the responsibility?

Speaker 3 That's a lot.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, it's been a busy time.

Speaker 2 For me,

Speaker 2 I know the places that I feel comfortable and relaxed and, you know, like the kind of safe haven. And that to me has become going home and being able to like turn it off and figure out how to do that.

Speaker 2 Finally, I think I've figured that out, at least to a certain extent, that I can get home and really enjoy being with my family.

Speaker 2 My kids are both out of the house now, but

Speaker 2 when they're around, it's great. But with Christine, just hanging out together and watching, you know,

Speaker 2 Real Housewives at Beverly Hills with my daughter or, you know, something like that. Or, you know, kind of just finding those moments to kind of like unplug.

Speaker 2 You know, I found that that really, really helps.

Speaker 2 And then I, you know, the other thing is just enjoying the work and the projects that I'm working on that I'm only working on things I really care about and I really want to be doing.

Speaker 3 Well, it's just been a pleasure talking with you.

Speaker 3 So thank you so much for coming back to our show.

Speaker 2 It's great to talk with you, Terry. Thank you.

Speaker 3 Ben Stiller's documentary about his parents, Stiller and Mira, Nothing is Lost, is streaming on Apple TV. He's also the executive producer and primary director of the Apple TV series Severance.

Speaker 3 Tomorrow on Fresh Air, we'll talk about FBI director Cash Patel with Mark Fisher, who profiles him in The New Yorker.

Speaker 3 Fisher writes about conspiracy theories Patel has promoted, how he became FBI director with no prior experience as a senior law enforcement official, his firing of FBI agents who investigated President Trump, and ethical protocols he's challenged.

Speaker 3 I hope you'll join us.

Speaker 3 Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham.
Our managing producer is Sam Brigger.

Speaker 3 Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne-Ree Boldonato, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Challener, Susan Yacundi, and Anna Bauman.

Speaker 3 Our digital media producer is Molly C. V.
Nesper. Our consulting visual producer is Hope Wilson.
Roberta Shorrock directs the show. Our co-host is Tanya Mosley.
I'm Terry Gross.

Speaker 13 This message comes from Vital Farms, who works with small American farms to bring you pasture-raised eggs. Farmer Tanner Pace shares a moment that brings him a sense of purpose.

Speaker 14 I think that when the barn doors open and the hens run to the paddocks, you can truly see what a happy hen really is. I love pasture-raised eggs because you can see the work.

Speaker 14 and the pride that the farmers have and have put into these eggs.

Speaker 13 To learn more about how Vital Farms farmers care for their hens, visit vitalfarms.com. This message comes from Vital Farms, who works with small American farms to bring you pastor-raised eggs.

Speaker 13 Farmer Tanner Pace shares why Vital Farms' mission aligns with his goals.

Speaker 14 Vital Farms' mission is to bring ethical food to the table. We only have one earth and we have to make it count.

Speaker 14 Like my boys, I want to see them taking care of the land for them to be able to farm and then generations to come.

Speaker 13 To learn more about how Vital Farms farmers care for their hens, visit vitalfarms.com.