Kingdom Hearts

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Hey guys, um, hey, Matt.

It's actually, it's actually, it's not Matt anymore.

It's, I just, I, I've joined.

Oh, okay.

I've joined organization 13.

And actually, the Matt that you once knew is, is not here.

I, I stand before you as his nobody, X Tam.

And I want you guys to join with me in Organization 13.

And I wanted to see what you guys think about that.

Hold on.

Yeah, I'm, look, I'm very suggestible and I have joined a lot of things over the years, but I just want to do a little bit of due diligence.

So let me just punch into Microsoft Bing.

What is Organization 13 real quick?

I want to go a step backwards beyond that and just say like, hey,

X Tam.

Yeah.

You know, I don't want to dead name you here, but like this, your new name is, that's, I could be wrong.

Isn't it Matt X backwards?

No, it could be, it's just, it's a, so what, what happens is when you become a

member of organization 13, you want, obviously, you don a black cloak right you see my black

cloak

it's like a like a sort of like a leather zip-up cloak hoodie thing yeah you have like a weapon that's kind of like reminiscent of like your personality

okay i love this all matches this matches everything i'm seeing on the kingdom hearts wiki uh and then you have you your your name becomes an anagram of your name uh yeah with an x in it and obviously tam being an anagram for Matt, not the best anagram, but

it's what I got, you know?

And so, and honestly,

let's think of me not as the same guy.

I'm a different guy.

I'm a separate guy.

What exactly do you do in an organization 13?

Because, like, again, I'm really interested in this weapon, but so far I've heard Cloak, and I scramble up my name.

What do you mean, what do we do?

We're organization 13.

Look, Look,

I'll just say last time I kind of joined an organization, Sight Unseen,

I ended up going up the Capitol Steps on January 6th

and am now kind of just facing this criminal conspiracy prosecution that's really kind of just taken my whole world for a spin.

So I don't want to just enlist in something again that's going to

land me in federal court.

I've joined the Freemasons, Scientology, and Nexium.

And I want to know what this organization offers that those three didn't, because those three didn't work out great for me.

Well,

I guess

the cloaks are included.

You don't have to pay for the cloak if that's what your concern is.

You get the cloak for free.

So you get the cloak, you make a weapon out of something you like, and then you get a crazy name.

Yeah.

And that's it.

And

all we have to do after that is

seek out Keyblade wielders and, you know, try to manipulate events across different worlds and conduct experiments.

But that's other than that, it's like really, it's really, really chill.

You can have like whatever hair you want.

Okay.

I, I thought maybe this was the organization where I'd finally get to kill Donald Duck.

We're not so much, I mean, you could, I mean, if he comes across us and we have to, you know, take him down, we have to take him down.

So you're saying the main, maybe the main thrust of Organization 13 is the murder and decapitation of Donald Duck?

Because if so, I'm in.

Hey, sorry.

I'm back.

I had to step away for a second.

I just, I was getting really fired up for this.

So I grabbed my Viking helmet and my tiki torch.

I'm fucking in.

We don't need that stuff, but I'm glad you're on board.

I'm not Weiger anymore.

I'm ex-Erwig.

Let's go.

We simple and clean as Matt discusses classic series Kingdom Hearts Hearts in this week's game and tell episode of Get Played.

Welcome to Get Played, your one-stop show for good games, bad games, and every game in between.

It's time to get played.

I'm your host, Heather Ann Campbell, along with my fellow host, Nick Weiger.

Hi, that's me, Nick Weiger, and I'm here with our third host, Matt Abadaka.

Hello, everyone.

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the premiere video game podcast, where Matt has something special for us in store.

He's finally going to introduce us to his favorite games of all time, the Game Hearts series.

This is a format we've done in the past.

Game and Tell is when we bring forward and elevate and celebrate a game that meant a lot to us.

I did one episode about Street Fighter 3.

Did I do an episode about Out of This World?

I don't remember.

And Nick did.

I don't think we did.

No.

Nick did one

about, I think it was like a lengthy RPG that like was really intense

and

probably involved a lot of like city management

and puzzles and like probably a language that you had to learn in order to engage with the game because that's the sort of thing that Nick likes.

Yeah, no, it was actually Dream Daddy a dad dating simulator, but you're close.

But yeah, this week, Matt's going to game and tell us all about Kingdom Hearts.

But before we do that,

we always like to talk about...

the other stuff we're doing, the games we're playing in a little segment.

Also, in case you're like, why is Heather doing so much lifting today?

It's because our boy Nick Weiger went to the dentist and I'm trying to take some of the luggage off of his trolley.

I'm trying to take some of that, some of the slices of beef off his sandwich.

I'm trying real hard to like take the flat tire off his car and replace it with a spare tire.

Who's the spare tire?

Nick reminds me.

Remind us, Nick, you went to the dentist because they were rehinging your jaw for what reason again?

Okay.

Just to make sure that the beef on my sandwich is okay.

Yeah, no sandwich has been made better by removing beef.

No,

it's time for the question we ask every episode, which is, what are you playing?

What are you playing?

Hey, it's me, the Resident Evil merchant.

And I'm always the guest.

Right here.

Right now.

To ask you quick what?

I don't know, you just caught me by surprise.

I'm always the guest right here.

I guess so.

It's not untrue.

It's not untrue.

Just the phrasing of it made me laugh.

Do you have other people on the show right here?

Do you record more than one episode a week?

We don't.

We don't typically record more than one episode a week.

No, we try to be kind of week of.

Yeah.

All right.

So I am always a guest right here.

Yeah, I guess.

Yeah, I think that's, yeah, I think it's fair.

More often than not, I would say.

Nick, are you on Twitter?

So I was pretty active on Twitter for a while, and then I took a month off in,

I want to say 2022, August of 2022, and then I just never returned because I was like, you know what?

I don't miss this.

It was that.

I think.

Yeah, I think like I kind of think my life is, but I was pretty inactive by the time by, you know,

I'd kind of like stopped regularly using it.

My, my use had atrophied a little bit during the pandemic.

And I just never returned to it.

So I guess short answer, no, I'm not on Twitter currently.

Okay.

Well, then that explains why you won't reply to my ats.

Yeah, I don't know.

I guess some of these were screen capped and sent to me.

Also, I think to at, I think you need to, you know, include a username.

You can't just say, Nick, are you there?

Like, you can't just type out my first name as text.

Oh, yeah.

All right.

Well, I'm new to Twitter, so I don't know how any of this works.

Well, now's the time to get on.

It is.

Oh, man.

They got a new boss over there.

He's shaking stuff up.

They made the likes private.

Yeah, I heard about this.

I also heard that, you know,

apparently that these days you get online,

you get on X, the new platform, and people will just,

in your replies, you'll just see porno all the time.

People are just sending porno.

Is that true?

Apparently, I've heard this secondhand.

I haven't received any of that.

That sounds like an absolute nightmare.

I haven't gotten any of

I think it's kind of besieged by porno bots.

Oh, man.

You guys are going to engage more.

Anyway, Mad Abodaka, what are you playing?

Well, thank you so much for teeing me up because I have two huge updates.

Wow.

Here they come.

Well, first of all, we're recording remotely.

I guess is it worth saying?

I had a bout of...

the novel coronavirus COVID-19.

I'm doing fine.

For safety, we're recording remotely, totally fine.

But because I've been down for a couple of days,

I do want to stress, it was very mild and I feel fine and I'm okay.

Inconvenient, but it was fine.

Yeah.

I had time to really sink some time into some games.

Okay.

And

because all my plans changed because I had to stay home.

And over the weekend, after Summer Games Fest, well, first of all, Sam Lake, the head of and like the main director at

Remedy Games, they make Alan Wake and all those games.

Control

presented, did a presentation, showed off a trailer for the Night Springs DLC for Alan Wake 2 and announced that it was coming out the next day in 24 hours.

So the next day, Saturday, I'm booting up my PS5, checking in on Alan Wake 2, download that update.

And I play through all three episodes of the Night Springs DLC.

And the Night Springs DLC, what it is, is it's three individual stories that are sort of like what-if stories set in the world of these games.

So, in one of them, you play as the fanatical waitress character who is like obsessed with Alan Wake in a very, very funny.

All of these are hilarious for the most part.

This one was super funny because she has she's insane and she thinks she has this like special connection to Alan Wake

and thinks they're in love and they're not.

But she goes around this town.

It's basically like a bullet like frenzy thing where she's shooting all these enemies and stuff.

And I had like basically unlimited ammo.

Like it was like I had at one point like 500 shotgun shells.

And the game wants you to just be firing at all at all times.

There's that one.

There's one where you play as Jesse from control, which was really cool in a sort of alt version of the story from Control where you're trying to find your brother.

And then in the third one, you play as Sean Ashmore, the actor's character, Tim Breaker from Alan Wake 2, who is supposed to be his character from the game Quantum Break,

which was an Xbox only

release.

And so because he can't be in other stuff, Microsoft owns that character and that IP.

They changed his whole deal and just made him a different guy with the same stuff.

It's wild.

It's so meta and so funny in the game.

That one is the best one, I think.

That was just incredible and so well done.

And I really loved it.

And I'm eagerly awaiting the next

DLC, which I think.

might be story DLC in the same way that the control DLC teased Alan Wake 2.

So we'll see what happens there.

But that was only like three hours.

They were all very short, is the thing.

But in the last couple of weeks, you know, I've been back in on Final Fantasy VII Rebirth.

And

I stopped with,

stopped trying to do all the side stuff.

Just wanted to get through to the main story.

And I finished it.

And

it was, it's unbelievable.

It is.

Like, I've spent so much time with these characters in this world

because of playing through all

playing through all the games, like obviously the original and then remake and then jumping straight into this.

So these characters are so important to me and so special.

And the story is so special to me.

It's very exciting to see the

subversions that the story takes in this in this remake.

Version of the story, right?

Like obviously in the first one, there's some stuff that is a little different.

In this this one, it's no surprise there's stuff that's a little bit different.

But the way that it blows out the story too and what it sets up is so cool.

And

I'm just blown away by it.

I thought it was really amazing.

I thought I liked this one more than I liked Remake.

And I loved Remake a lot.

I think this is a better game.

I think this is like...

It's it's like it's I mean potentially like an all-time game honestly and it's the second disc of the of the game.

You know what I mean?

like yes it's it would be like saying disc two of final fantasy 7 is one of my favorite games uh insane thing to say um but i i do sort of feel like that like it was like really unbelievable and just so well done and like the the stuff that you remember from the original that hits super hard in in in in those moments because you spend so much time with the characters hits hard in a different way uh in in in rebirth and i was just like i was so happy to be done with it, kind of, but not like,

I kind of want to see what else is going on with

the world.

I know that there's a couple of games in the series I haven't played, like Dirge of Cerberus.

I don't think anybody recommends I do this.

I don't think anybody thinks that

it's a good game.

Dirge.

Or Crisis Core people.

Station 2 exclusive.

Dirge.

People seem to like Crisis Core fine, but nobody is like emphatic.

You got to play Crisis Core.

But I like these characters so much, and I loved this game.

And I was really, really happy I played it.

And then while I was finishing it, all I could think of was, I wish you guys had finished it with me.

That's a very nice sentiment, and that actually makes me feel like

dog shit.

Just because

I do want to play it.

Yeah, I do really.

I loved Final Fantasy VII, the original, obviously, and I loved the remake.

I just didn't get around to playing Rebirth.

It's a chubby game, but but I finished your thought.

I finished it at 102 hours or something.

Like, it was yes, that's what scares me is just hearing how huge it is.

And the last game I tackled of that length being Baldur's Gate 3, which I played through twice, I was like, man, it might be a minute before I commit to something that meaty again.

Yeah, it was, it was tough to do, and obviously, it took me a little bit longer than I had intended.

But all that to say, too, the combat is as good, if not, there's stuff in it that I think is better.

It's a little more fun, a little little more action-packed.

Um, and

I love it, and I'm not done with the world of Final Fantasy.

I am back in Final Fantasy 16, trying to finish off the Rising Tide DLC before I jump back into Elden Ring.

And folks, that's it for me.

Who would like to go next?

Matt, I want to, I, if you were to receive a PlayStation 2 game, do you have any way of playing it?

I have a PlayStation 2,

but I don't, I mean, here's the thing.

I probably would just try to play it on my Steam Deck.

You know what I mean?

Oh, okay.

If I have to, if I'm going to play it, but

if you received a copy of Dirge of Cerberus in the mail, you would be like, oh, I'd rather play this on my Steam Deck.

I would find a way to do it.

I have a PlayStation 2 handy.

It could happen.

I could play it on

the correct hardware.

I don't know if I have a monitor that

will let you hook up.

Yeah.

has the wave to let me uh do it, but man, I love this just making me think of how aesthetically pleasing the PS2 Slim was.

That's the one that I had a little tiny guy, it's so fucking cool looking.

It's like the size of two DVD cases.

I don't know if we could tell we could at one point, probably no one would be interested in this topic, but just talking about the aesthetics of various consoles if we dig deep on that.

Because like that's one of the favorite ones just to look at as a piece of hardware because it's because the PS2, I mean, let's save it for the episode.

The regular PS2, chunky, big.

It's a chunky void.

Then they fit all that in a thin guy, in a little one?

I love when they stuff the guts into something real small.

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Heather, what are you playing?

I've been real busy.

Also,

congrats, Mats, on finishing reverse.

Thank you so much.

I'm happy to have my life back.

I've been really busy the last week.

You know, I'm back in the office in person.

It's a lot of

work.

So I've played like,

I'd say four rounds of Fortnite, and that is it.

That is all I've had the opportunity to play.

I will say, Alan Wake is in the shop

in Fortnite.

Oh, wearing

wearing just like the plainest suit.

He looks like he doesn't belong in the game, like, because everybody else is like in like neon

and like,

you know, skateboards and or they look like they're from the wasteland.

Alan Wake's showing up in like a a tweed suit.

Yeah, he looks like a professor.

Yeah, he's a professor.

So

Alan Wake's in Fortnite.

His suit costs $40, I think, or his skin costs $40.

Good God.

Wow.

Really so.

Wow.

That's a lot of money to be able to play as a guy that kind of looks like my dad.

Just a normal man.

Yeah, just a normal man with a beard.

But that's all I've done.

I've had a couple rounds.

I guess here's a,

I mean, I ran into to some, I ran into a listener and a battle bud from the Discord in

ranked,

which was kind of incredible.

I don't know that I've ever come across another player that

I know.

while playing Fortnite and they were on the, you know, we were playing solos.

And so that was pretty wild and made me wonder if the player numbers on the servers are in inflated um because it just seems so unlikely

but um

uh yeah but i uh then uh soon thereafter squatted up with the needles s panda uh walminter

uh miss funyon like all the all the battle buds so give them a shout out um

but that's it Nick.

Nick, what are you planning?

Heather, thank you so much for asking.

You know, so I try so hard to avoid games on my phone.

I get so addicted to them, and I don't want to be looking at my fucking phone.

But the thing is, I'm in a few different group chats, and people are always playing fucking New York Times games.

And so I got the NYT Games app.

And I got to say, this is a really slick app.

It is.

I do like the word games on it.

We've talked about Wordle in the past.

I was not playing Wordle for a while.

I'm back playing Wordle again.

Wordle is very fun, and it's also a thing where it doesn't take a lot of time.

But here's my rationalization.

I have two rationalizations here, and I recognize the rationalizations.

I don't want to be looking at my phone this much, but I am anyway.

One is that I don't know if this is pseudoscience.

I don't know if I believe this got discredited when everyone was talking about this back when Brain Age was the big thing on

the Nintendo DS.

But, you know, I have heard that word games, these sorts of things are good for the brain.

So it's not like this is just,

it's not like I'm playing some pay-to-win fucking app game or I'm playing, I'm just,

you know, again,

I'm putting a bunch of time into slay the spire or a

Hearthstone like I used to and whether I'm having fun or not or Marvel snap I do feel like I'm just like the hours are black are blazing by this has like kind of a finite end point

these are usually fast to play and again, it feels like it's you're using your brain space productively, whether that's true or not.

The other thing is that I just find myself like anyone with like an odd like three to five minutes on where I'm just looking at my fucking phone.

And again, I hate this fucking YouTube shit.

Yeah.

No, actually, my phone never goes in the bathroom.

This is a, this is absolutely true.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, it's, it's banned from my bathroom and from my bedroom.

Those are two, two life changes I made that that improved my quality of life overall.

But I do find myself like, whatever, I'm waiting in a queue or something.

I was at the dentist earlier today, as Heather talked about, and I'm just like, I've got a little bit of time to kill.

I can hop on there and I can play Wordle.

I really like the mini crossword, which is just, for anyone who hasn't played it, it's just a really skew, like fucking in,

what's the opposite of embigand?

An in Smalland, a real shrunken, like crossword.

It's a real, real tiny guy.

Yeah, it's kind of an emsmalland is, I think, the best way to put it crossword.

But you can just rattle that out really quick you can literally play this in like in like a minute or two minutes and that's very fun and satisfying and then also this other game connections which is just a really well designed game uh heather matt uh ranch any of you played connections do you know how this works i play connections

every day

so it's it's very fun and it's just like it's it's a and and rochelle was was nodding along as well it's like you know you get you have a four by four grid so 16 different uh words in blocks and then you're just trying to find the connections between groups of four words.

Now, this game is new to me, so at first I was like, okay, all these words are five letters, but that's not how it works.

It's a little bit more

thematic than that.

So it'll be like, oh, each of these four words all represent neighborhoods in one city, and each of these four words all describe the size of something.

You know, and so like when you figure out how to categorize these things and they're, they're, some are more obscure than some are more obvious, that's, that's a really satisfying reveal when you find out how these things are structured.

So I have been spending some time with the New York Times games app.

I want to touch on one other thing, which is not directly video game related, but I think has a game component to it.

Oh, no.

So we're right now.

All right, then I won't.

Never mind.

Well, no, I just don't know where we're going.

Hunting men.

I'm nervous.

Yeah, I was like,

anytime Nick's like...

Most dangerous game, they call it.

I want to talk to you guys about something that's not a video game, but is a little game I've been playing.

Like, I'm like, oh no.

So what it is, is you buy all these knives and you get other people to sell the knives for you.

And then they get some money and you get some of the money.

Sort of gamified in a way.

Anyway, no, I was going to talk about we're in the midst of the NBA finals.

And we are recording this episode after game two and before game three.

It looks like the Boston Celtics are going to win the title over the Dallas Mavericks.

Who knows, things might change by the time this episode is released and two more games of basketball will be played.

But anyway,

I was thinking about this from a kind of,

from a game design standpoint, because as has happened with all pro sports, and Matt, you're the Resident MLB head, the Resident Dodgers fan.

You have observed this happen with baseball.

The moneyball effect, the hyper-optimization of sports that happened with the introduction of analytics driven by computers.

And what that happened, what has happened with basketball is happened with all sports is that things have been min-maxed.

And what used to be kind of a diverse array of play styles has been,

the term I've seen some people use is aesthetic erosion, has kind of like turned into just one ideal play of

one ideal way of constructing a team and playing the game.

And the biggest factor that's been.

influencing that in the NBA is the three-point shot.

Now, the three-point shot was introduced in the NBA back in the 1979, 1980 season, I believe, but it was not really utilized.

It was like kind of a situational thing until analytics underlined the obvious fact that a three-pointer, a three-point shot is worth 1.5 times as much as a two-point shot.

And when you think of that from through the prism of expected value, or the thing they'll say in sports is effective field goal percentage, you're in a better space by just attempting more three-pointers than two-pointers.

And what's happened over especially the past 10 years, and the biggest example is the Golden State Warriors, though this year's Boston Celtics are another example, is that teams have revolved around having an array of players who can all shoot a lot of three-pointers.

And basically, the whole way to play the game is pace and space, drive and kick.

So the idea is we'll play fast,

we'll have everyone at the perimeter attempting three-pointers, and then the drive-and-kick aspect is we'll have one player try to get close to the basket.

When the defense converges, we will throw the ball out, pass the the ball to another player who can attempt a three-pointer.

I'm vastly simplifying everything because I know a lot of our audience does not follow basketball, but I'm just kind of talking about this in general terms.

And I'm going somewhere with this, I promise.

What's happened with the finals is that Boston, who, again, is the favorite and has been the best team all season, has the most three-point attempts in the league of any team.

Dallas, who is the probable runner-up, though they also could win the whole thing, has the fourth most attempts of any team in the league.

What's happened statistically is, and I'm calling these from an array of sources, but the team that makes the most three-pointers in a game wins about 80% of the time.

The team that shoots the higher three-point percentage wins about 70% of the time.

And this to me is the most indicting of

the balance issues with the league.

is that the team that attempts the most three-pointers, again, just attempts the most three-pointers, whether they're made or miss, has a win percentage about 70% as well.

So, again, just the most effective way to win a game is just to shoot a lot of threes.

Part of that, again, goes back to expected value, which is that,

for instance, Michael Jordan, consensus best NBA player of all time, shot 51% from two shooting on two-point attempts for his career.

The league average in the 2023-24 season for three-point percentage, so the average player shot 36.6%.

If you run the expected value of a 36.6% three-point attempt and a 36 and a 51% two-point attempt, it's more valuable.

You're going to receive more points per attempt from a three-pointer from an average player as opposed to,

you're going to receive about 1.9 points per attempt, as opposed to what you would get from a two-point attempt from, again, the greatest player in NBA history.

So some would just say it's kind of a broken game design.

And how do you approach this?

About 1.9 to 1.1 points i'm sorry one point yeah 1.9 1.09 to 1.1 points per present per attempt for a three-pointer from a league average player and 1.02 uh points per attempt from a two-point attempt from michael jordan so one of one idea i had about this as i was thinking about this is how would you rebalance this if this was a live service game i know because i know because go on please i would add a five-point shot from half-court.

So that's one possibility, right?

But then what happens if you add a five-point shot is the issue is that,

again, everyone is attempting too many shots

from long range.

Now the expected value of a five-point shot attempt, like, you know,

what is a 25% chance of that is 1.25, right?

So now

the incentives have shifted towards let's just shoot as many five-pointers as possible.

And that becomes a completely chaotic game one thing you could do but that fixes it

it'd be interesting because now all of a sudden there's no reason to shoot three pointers we're all just gonna be heaving half court shots

people just completely missing

and i haven't even gotten into another aspect which is that the there's a the because the the the basketball court is longer than it is wide

There's a corner three, which is a shot from the side of the basket, which is closer, and thus players shoot a much higher percentage from a corner three than they do from what's called an above the break three.

So I have a quote from Dan Dantoni, who is Mike Dantoni's brother.

Mike Dantoni, one of the kind of the progenitors of this pace and space, shoot a lot of three-pointers approach.

And Dan Dantoni was also a coach in the NBA.

The best shot in basketball is the corner three.

The next best shot in basketball is any other three.

Other than free throws, which we try to do when you get to the foul line, you score 1.5 times every time you get to the foul point in the pro in the pros.

The other factor is if you get to a, this is more Mike Dantoni.

If you have a layup or dunk attempt that's not highly contested, it's worth 1.8 points per attempt.

I think probably, you know, you shoot about 90% if you're right at the rim.

It's 1.3 from the corner.

And so it's just like, you're just much more likely to

average out to more points over the course of the game if you're shooting more threes from the corner and more shots right at the rim.

I've got another fix.

Yeah.

If you miss a three, you lose one point.

See, that's interesting.

Now, the other factor is, and I like ideas like this, but the other factor that you run into, and Matt, again, you saw this with the MLB.

Because these pro sports legs are so stodgy and traditionalist, you know, we're not talking about a live service game that's been around for three years.

We're talking about a professional sport that's been around for, you know, in the NBA's case, 75 years, in baseball's case, over 100 years.

So it's not like, like, if you were just rebalancing this, you might say, hey, let's try making a three-point shot worth 2.5 points.

Oh, you know, okay, you know what?

That's the, that we kind of nerfed the three-pointer too much.

Let's, let's kick it up to 2.8 points.

Okay, 2.8 feels right.

But you're never going to fucking do that in basketball.

They're never going to be able to market a 2.8 point shot.

So they have to figure out some other solution or just accept the game as it is.

What about style points?

Then you're kind of getting the NBA street sort of action sports guy.

Yeah, what if you bounce it off of somebody's head and then slam dunk it?

Then that's that's that's three points right there.

The idea I like that I think is interesting, and I don't know if they'll ever attempt this, but if you took the three-point arc, and I was talking about the corner three, and you just made it run all the way to the sidelines instead of having the corner three, you just eliminate that.

So you have basically above the break threes is what they called is the only three-point shot that's allowed.

Then all of a sudden you make it so that it incentivizes more mid-range two-point attempts.

I think that's what would happen.

But again, they'd have to play test it this way.

But isn't it interesting?

Because like, I mean, gosh,

I am the last person that should be weighing in on this at all.

But, like,

no, not at all.

I brought it up because I was just interested in it from a game design standpoint.

As far as live sports goes, I would say,

would you say basketball one of the higher scoring games?

Like, what?

Because there's contests.

We're constantly scoring all the time.

Sports scores are routinely over 100.

I think the average number of points per game.

Yeah, I have the stats up.

The league average number of points per game in 2023 24 was 114 it's a very high score so obviously like optimizing the the shots benefits the players right but it like in in that it incentivizes them to try to to shoot threes and you know get a higher percentage of

a higher scoring percentage let's say but then the game to me functionally as an audience member as a as a spectator stays the same it doesn't become more exciting.

Whereas in baseball, when they implemented the pitch clock

in the last

year and a half, that's made the game more exciting because games have been on average, on average, last season, games are like a half hour shorter, which is huge in baseball because a lot of times you're watching a baseball game and even baseball fans will be like, this is, let's.

put us out of our misery.

Like, you know, especially if your team's not doing great.

You're like, I kind of want to just get this game over with.

But there's not like,

you either hit the ball in baseball or you don't, I guess, is the other thing.

There's not going to, you're not going to get

an extra point for hitting a home run.

That'd be cool.

You automatic point, and then you get to run the bases.

That could be interesting.

I don't know where I'm going with this.

I guess what I'm saying is the game isn't that different if they make the points in basketball different from

a reviewer standpoint.

It's maybe a little bit more exciting because people are going for it a little more.

And it's fun to see people go for it, but the score is ultimately going to stay the same

within the same range.

Yeah, I mean, first off, it's interesting

that to talk about it from a baseball standpoint.

I mean,

it is in some way, in a lot of ways, a simpler game.

It's an individual sport disguised as a team sport, right?

It's pitcher versus batter is the fundamental conflict.

And that's, I think, that's the reason why everyone says that, you know, moneyball is the example.

And the Oakland A's optimizing their team became the template for baseball, and baseball became a solved game first because it's a much simpler sport or much more straightforward sport to apply analytics to than basketball, let alone something like where the ball is always in motion, like soccer or something that's got a bunch of discrete plays and really specific positions like the NFL.

You want to drum up excitement in the MLB?

You buy the best baseball player playing the game and have him be on your team, and then you charge everybody in the stadiums

to pay for that.

Well, this is another layer of sports, and why balancing them is so interesting is because team construction is another aspect.

Like things like the salary cap and the draft exists ostensibly for competitive balance.

And with MLB, I know that those things have been skewed because of the way salaries are handled.

And some teams just decide it's more lucrative to not compete.

I mean, the LA Clippers in basketball, which I know way, way better,

was an example for a long time where they had a famously thrifty and racist owner who just, you know, was like, I don't want to spend any money on my team because we'll make more money that way.

And so

I know that that's an issue too.

That's something in and of itself.

But what you were talking about in terms of like

it again comes down to, goes back to aesthetic erosion and just kind of like the feel of the thing.

Like I like watching three-pointers and the same way I think baseball fans like watching a home run.

So I don't really like think it's like a huge deal, but it has made it, again, so there's like kind of one way to build a team.

And if a player can't play competent defense and hit three pointers, they really don't have

any sort of place in the league.

Whereas in the past, there used to be a lot more variance in terms of how individual players, in terms of how individual teams ran their offenses and defenses, and in terms of which players with which skill sets could potentially flourish at the highest level.

So I guess part of the argument is maybe like, hey, is some variance in play styles just kind of more interesting to watch?

In the same way that like, it's kind of like if in Fortnite, sniper rifles were, were completely OP and everyone at the highest level was just using sniper rifles.

Yes.

And like, yeah, you could, you could mess around with other guns if you wanted to for fun.

Yeah, okay, so, but that sort of thing happens.

And then they, they update it and they, they, you know, they nerf sniper rifles or whatever the fuck, uh, or they knife, they, they, they nerf drop rates for sniper ammo, whatever things they do to kind of make it less powerful.

Uh, but again, again, because sports moves so slowly in terms of adopting rule changes, those things are less likely.

I was about to give maybe the worst example possible.

I was going to say,

I was going to say, it would be like if you went to a live skateboarding event and Tony Hawk only did the 900 like 10 times in a row.

That would be boring.

And then I was like, no, it wouldn't.

That'd be the most amazing thing you've ever seen.

But I mean, anyway,

I guess I didn't really really have to say any of that, but I was just, I've been thinking about it more because it's just like none of us have ever had to say anything we've said on this.

I don't know.

I just, I like, I love video games and I, and the NBA is the one sport I follow.

In basketball, I've watched most of any sport over the course of my life.

And it's, yeah, the rules have changed over time, but it's just kind of interesting to see the state of the game now versus where it used to be.

And again, there's kind of just kind of one way to play.

And is there any way that will be addressed?

Or will they just sort of say like, it's not really a problem.

We don't really know.

My favorite,

some of my favorite rules in sports are like the very like arbitrary ones, like the, you can't have this color shoe or whatever, or like that type of, that type of stuff.

Oh, yeah.

I love that because it's like, come on.

What do we,

what are we doing?

I like how in.

I like how in baseball the player, the, the managers wear uniforms.

That's my favorite thing.

I wish every sport did.

Oh, I wish

every job did that.

I wish every fucking boss had to dress like the people that work for them

and cosplay as the working class.

But CEO of Hot Dog and a Stick has to wear the uniform.

That'd be honestly, that'd be really, really good.

I agree.

That's how it should be.

I've never been to a live basketball game.

Wow.

That's a hoot.

I'll take you.

Do they got hot dogs in there?

You should totally go.

Yeah, they got plenty of hot dogs.

As many as you want.

I mean, it'll charge you an arm and a leg, but

that's not a problem for me, baby.

Nothing gets between me and my hot dogs.

Name your price, I say, when I get to the hot dog vendor.

Would it be like,

this is maybe an art, an article that someone at some,

you know, like I would not write, but like if, like, if I, if people, if I was a kind of person who wrote articles, it would be interesting to survey like

multiplayer designers from like, who work on like live service games like Fortnite or League of Legends or Apex Legends or CSGO or whatever, just like survey them and say, Hey, here are some

balance issues with pro sports.

How would you possibly address this?

And I just kind of get some off-the-wall ideas.

And like, I don't know, hey, a touchdown is worth five points.

I don't know.

What would that do to sports?

I do, for some reason, think

having watched some football in my life, the points are bad in football.

I don't think they're good.

I think seven is maybe too many

for a

is it seven?

It's it's so it's six for a touchdown.

You can score, you can kick an extra point for one point or you can

throw or pass, throw or run an extra point into the end zone for two.

I don't know how I'd fix it, I guess.

I guess I want.

So it's so one, basically one touchdown equals two field goals, which are three points, but the extra point makes it so that you have to, you know, it's, it's, it's more than what about a points multiplier?

right?

Like, so if you do, let's say you do a field goal, that's three points, right?

But then your second field goal in a row is worth 0.5 more.

So then

every field goal you do in a row is then, you know, it's then one, one point, maybe not 0.5 because then you're going to go in the negative direction.

But then if it's like 1.5 more

each time or something.

So now I'm driving down the field and I'm within, I can try to get it, to put it in the end zone, get a touchdown, but my field goal is now worth 4.5 points.

Maybe it makes more sense to just sort of like kick a field goal in third down.

Yeah, then maybe there's a pass that might get intercepted.

Maybe there's style points too, and you can throw the football at the back of the head of the guy in front of you or whatever, and then

use that to score a touchdown then, too.

I think that's pretty good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then if a player is really good, they like catch on fire, like they actually catch on fire.

Honestly, maybe they're all on skateboards.

That could be another thing they could do.

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Guys, should we get into it?

Yeah.

Yeah, let's talk about Kingdom Hearts.

Let's talk about Kingdom Hearts.

Okay.

And this, we're doing this right now

because, I mean, as of recording, this is happening tomorrow, but this will have happened in the very recent past for those listening to it when it releases on Monday.

And then way in the past, if you're listening to this in the future, that's just how time works.

Kingdom Hearts is coming to Steam.

It was previously on console only and then came to PC

via the Epic Game Store and it was locked there.

And it was, so it's now going to be on Steam, meaning you can now then also play it on your Steam Deck.

Take all of Kingdom Hearts on the go with you.

Very exciting, very good stuff.

The

bundle, I wanted to say the name of the bundle that all of it is sold under.

It's

Kingdom Hearts Integrum Masterpiece.

That's great.

Integrum?

Integrum?

A word I've never seen or heard before.

No, yes,

I love a new majority.

Why not?

Integrum.

Integrum.

Integrum.

Integrum.

And then also, let's not forget the best part of it.

Masterpiece.

Very, very good.

So if you're not familiar with Kingdom Hearts, it is a series of action role-playing games created by Tetsuya Nomura and Shinji.

Hashimoto.

And guys,

of course,

there's original characters in these games, but they also have

some characters from the Square Enix universe, some characters from like Final Fantasy,

mostly Final Fantasy games, but there are some characters

that cross over with the world that ends with you and Einhander.

Einhander?

Einhander.

Einhander.

Einhander, yeah, that this was a this was a this was a schmup.

Yes, this was a square Enix schmupp that I had for PS1, but then they also

cross over with various characters and worlds from the world of Disney.

And you're probably wondering, how does this even, how does this even happen?

What the heck?

How did they even come up with something like this?

Right.

Well, let me tell you.

Please do.

Game and tell us.

Well, also, I wanted to let you know there are 13 games in this series.

Wait, there's 13?

There are 13 games.

Organization 13.

That's so many.

As in Organization 13.

But here's the thing, there is more on the way.

And, you know, it is, there's just, there's just so many.

There's so many games.

Not all of them are playable today.

Some of them were browser games only, you know, which is, which is great.

But

none of that stuff is canon to the story.

So

I'll tell you, this first Kingdom Hearts game was released in March of 2002.

I want to take a step back

from that for just a second, too.

Because, so this game, if you could believe it or not, was actually inspired by Super Mario 64.

And by that, I mean they it was one of the first games to use a 3D space and be able to like explore an environment, right?

So they wanted to do something like that with Disney characters.

Um, but I guess uh, Tetsuya Nomura was like, I could do this with an original character if you let me use the Disney characters.

We can figure this out.

He came up with the pitch of Kingdom Hearts and brought it to Square Enix and Disney.

He happened to actually, I think, run into somebody from Disney and they were like, Yeah, sure, whatever.

Like, just go ahead, do it.

And so that's how Kingdom Hearts was born, basically.

It was a meet cute.

A meet cute.

He like just bumped into a guy and was like,

in a new franchise in an elevator.

That's wild.

I think that here's the thing.

It's not that crazy because they shared an office building at the time in Japan, but it's still like, hey, can we do this?

And they're like, yeah, sure, whatever.

And this first one, like I said, was released in 2002 in Japan.

and then

in September 2002 in the U.S.

And it has sold 6 million copies, making it the 10th highest selling PlayStation 2 game of all time.

Wow.

Top 10.

Top 10, not nothing.

Maybe we'll

revisit that later on in the episode as well.

Ooh, okay.

And this is Tetsuya Nomura's first game as a director, by the way.

And then I probably got it in December of 2004,

if I'm thinking about it, because it was at that point on PlayStation Greatest Hits.

So I didn't get it when the initial hype around it was, like, I didn't get it when it was new.

So I got it when it was like discounted for $20 or whatever.

PlayStation Hits was sold as.

But I knew some of the characters from Final Fantasy, and obviously I knew the Disney characters.

So I was like, let's just see what this is.

Little did I know that it was going to take over my entire brain.

But that's, that's just the first one.

The story, if you are not familiar with it, it's this kid Sora teams up with Donald and Goofy as they travel across various Disney-themed worlds to stop the plans of the evil Maleficent, the mean lady from Snow White.

You know, wait, no, is it Snow White?

It's Sleeping Beauty, actually,

is Maleficent.

And her allies, who are various Disney villains.

You got your Hades, you got your Pete.

Goofy's Pete is one of the main

toughs in this game.

And they are seeking to harness the power of darkness, right?

And Sora discovers that he is a chosen wielder of the Keyblade.

And the Keyblade is a weapon crucial to saving the worlds from darkness because it locks darkness away and unlocks the light.

And along the way, he meets, he reunites with his friends that have, they're all from this one island called Destiny Islands.

And there was like a rift that sort of sent them all across different worlds and stuff.

And

he uncovers his own mystery of his own identity,

battles a bunch of Disney villains.

Jafar's there too.

I forgot about Jafar, Captain Hook.

And there are these creatures called the Heartless, right?

Yes.

And the main antagonist of this game is Ansom.

who is voiced by Billy Zane.

And he is the Seeker of Darkness, and he's trying to unlock the power of Kingdom Hearts itself.

But then, you know, of course, Sora, he comes out ahead at the end of the day with the power of friendship.

And that's basically kind of what happens in all of these.

The power of friendship is huge in these games.

If you got friends, you're doing just fine in the Kingdom Hearts series.

I'll say, and I want to get Heather's.

Kingdom Hearts history and POV, but I barely really played any Kingdom Hearts.

I was thinking of when Kingdom Hearts 3 came out, like, like, oh, you know what?

I'll play through all this.

That'll be my way in.

And then uh it got kind of middling reviews that I was like ah maybe this isn't the one for me to to to dig deep on so but I'm I'm I'm I might you know date I might mess around with it on Steam but like the as as far as my overall awareness I I love how like and I mean this affectionately Matt and and I I know you know I do I love how like stupid it is like it's like really dumb

but like people like care care so much about it like they get like really emotional about like again like Goofy's rival Pete.

Like, it's like they think about, like, they think about that shit, and it's like, you know, meaningful.

And I kind of love that.

And I love how much lore it is.

Like, I'm just like a guy who's like, anytime there's like dense, inscrutable lore, there's just volumes and volumes of material explaining backstory and shit.

I love how much unnecessary detail exists for this franchise.

Like, yeah, for example, did you know that there was a Keyblade War?

That's part of this.

There's a Keyblade War?

That's great.

So to answer your question, Nick, I was a day one Kingdom Hearts player.

Let's go.

Wow.

I, you know, as a Final Fantasy junkie, I was like, the selling point of the game was not Disney.

I was annoyed that Disney was in it.

I showed the trailer to people and I was like, look at this fucking crazy game.

And everybody would laugh.

But like, I was like, cloud's in this.

Squall's in this.

I, maybe Sephiroth is in this.

I got to play this game.

Yes, and Sephiroth should be, it should be noted.

The voice of Sephiroth in Kingdom Hearts is in Synx Lance Bass.

Yeah.

Yes.

Good stuff.

This I know.

The voice cast, because I know Lance Bass.

I know Haley Joel Osmo.

This is Sora.

I believe it's still with the franchise, is Sora.

And then Mandy Moore is another kid.

She plays.

I think she plays Aerith

in the game,

if I'm remembering correctly.

I mean, these are all

time capsules of the year 2001, 2002.

Yes.

That's why all these voices are like who they are.

But I play Kingdom Hearts 1, and I'm like, this fucking game's pretty good.

It's got great music, and I love all these outfits.

So then Kingdom Hearts 2 comes out, and I play that, and I'm like, this game is actually good.

Like, actually good.

I've, you know, I'm a boy Sephiroth's in there, and he's

hard to beat, and that's the way it should be.

Like, you should feel sick when that song comes on.

I've said this before on the podcast.

When you hear that,

you should be like, okay, fuck.

Then I played Kingdom Hearts Game Boy Advance.

I played Kingdom Hearts on the PSP,

whatever those games are called.

I don't know, they're like 371 over

memories from the Game Boy Advance.

There's Kingdom Hearts 358 over two days.

There you go.

Chain of Memories.

Yeah.

Chain of Memories.

Birth by Sleep is the PSP one.

There we go.

Birth by Sleep.

That's the one with the three protagonists, or maybe there's two of them.

Yeah, maybe the second best game in the franchise.

So I, you know, I'm playing these Kingdom Hearts games, and I'm more and more psyched about the release of three.

And three comes out when

I'm dealing with that first bout of cancer back back in 2020

or 2019.

And I'm like, fuck, yeah, I'm going to play Kingdom Hearts 3.

It's perfect timing.

Boy, oh, boy, that game did not.

I didn't like that game.

No.

I was real bummed out by that game.

But I've watched that trailer for Kingdom Hearts 4 a lot.

Yes.

I'm quite excited.

I'm not going to play that.

So I'm not a Kingdom Hearts head like Matt, but I would say, by virtue of just how many titles I've played, I guess I'm a fan of the series.

You're close.

You're very close.

I would say that you are.

Because, I mean,

you've played more than the main ones.

Like, you did the extra homework.

I did the extra homework.

You played the card battling one, chain of memories.

I mean, the problem with the Kingdom Heart, the reason you play it on PSP, though, is because there's not a ton of great games on PSP.

No.

At the time.

So you're like, oh, shit, a Kingdom Hearts game and it's new?

I'm in.

I know.

I know.

I wish

I hadn't played that one on PSP.

But to catch us up to,

I just like, I don't want to go through all of the main stories of all these games, but I'll just go through,

like, because we'll be here for

the rest of our lives.

Right.

But after, after Kingdom Hearts 1 is Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories, released for the Game Boy Advance in 2004.

And it is a card battling system that,

a card battling game that retells the story of the first one, kind of through

like Sora trying to regain his memories.

His memories are taken away, and so he sort of replays key moments of the first game in

a card battling type game.

And

I loved this when I got it, and I think it's a controversial pick now.

People, it's definitely the slog when you are playing through these games because one, it's story beats

you just saw, and it's in a more complicated way to experience the story.

Um, but I played through it a bunch of times when I was a kid, and I loved it.

Um, and then, of course, in 2005, these are all coming out rapid fire, by the way.

Uh, in 2005, Kingdom Hearts 2 comes out, and I've told this story on the podcast before.

I did not get this game at release,

but

my uncle, not my uncle that I've talked about on the show, but my other uncle,

um,

sort of challenged me as a 15-year-old to give something up for Lent.

And he was like, And if you give something up, I'll get you whatever the thing you give up is at the end of Lent.

And if I guess if you don't know what Lent is, it's a Catholic, what would you call it,

practice where you give up something for 40 days and then you don't sin.

You also don't sin at all.

And then, so my thing was, I was like, okay, I'm trying to get something good.

I'm not trying to just get like a, you you know, cake or sugar or something.

Yeah.

So I was 15, so I was trying to gain, gain the system.

And so what I did was I gave up video games for 40 days.

And I did police myself.

I did do this correctly because at this time, I knew it was not true, but I was like, still worried about going to hell.

Yeah.

And my reward,

my reward for,

doing this was Kingdom Hearts 2 because I got to pick.

It's like, okay, I'm getting Kingdom Hearts 2 then.

You're going to get me that.

And he did.

So

I played through all that, and it just continues the story.

Such an impressive feat for a 15-year-old who loves video games.

The idea of that level of restraint, because 40 days when you're that age feels like 40 years, it feels like an eternity.

Time moves so slowly.

Yeah, luckily, I have really jacked off.

I've never seen it.

Christ.

It is funny that there's a Josh Hartnett movie about Lent, and the idea is that he's so horny that for Lent, he's like given up jacking off for 40 days, and then he's like going crazy.

You used to be able to do a Catholic comedy, you know?

Nowadays, you can't.

You can't do that anymore.

But Kingdom Hearts 2, obviously, I've talked about this game a bunch on this show.

This is my favorite video game.

It takes all the best stuff from Kingdom Hearts 1, the inscrutable lore,

the characters you know and love, but it also amps it up a thousand percent.

And also, um, the gameplay, and Heather would agree with this, I'm sure, is perfect.

The

combat is perfect.

It's, it's all just really great stuff.

You get these, there are these other forms that you can take where then you can like dual wield Keyblades, and it, it just feels really, really good.

And it, there's a section in this game that I love so much, and if people ask me, what about it?

is in this game that I love.

And it's such a, I don't know, this, it's, I don't know if it's the part that everybody would say is like the best part of the game, but there's a, there's a section of the game where you're in the world of the Disney movie Mulan.

And in the, in Mulan, there's the, the big fight on like the snowy hills where all the the huns are coming and it's like a big crazy, it's a, it's a battle, it's a big war.

In that section in the game, there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of heartless everywhere.

So it just kind of feels like you're surrounded by heartless and you're just going nuts just swinging that Keyblade all over the damn place and it fucking rules.

It is so so good and I love it.

And it's like not even the coolest part of the game, but that to me, I was like, this is, this is King of Hearts 2, baby.

This rocks.

There's a photorealistic Johnny Depp in it.

It's great.

It's in the Pirates of the Caribbean world.

It's very, very good.

Makes no sense.

Because you also adopt...

Oh, something that I haven't said is when you go to these Disney worlds, you often will adopt the clothing of the world, which is also kind of fun because there's just like a bunch of outfits and stuff.

This is another thing that I know with my bit peripheral Kingdom Hearts Knowledge, and I love this.

I really, really love it.

You go to Nightmare Before Christmas World, you're dressed up like a scary pumpkin guy.

I'm trying to think of some of the other.

Sometimes you're wearing your normal clothes.

I'm siphoning.

I'm sifting through the ones and I'm thinking of all the ones where you're wearing your normal clothes because it doesn't happen in all of them.

In the Pirates of the Caribbean world, you are a pirate, so you're wearing pirate pirate costume, but everybody looks human except you.

It's like it's very fucking weird.

It's very weird, and borderline kind of sucks.

Like, it sucks to look at.

Like,

it's like, it's tough to sort of consider, but

it's my absolute favorite game in the series and just overall in general.

Next,

Matt, that rocks.

I think that's, I, I love that you love it.

And I I love that also that you had, you have a context for it where when you got this game, it was like such a powerful moment for you.

You know, the idea of like, I tried

and your reward was a JRPG.

And I got an RPG for, uh, for, for my spoils.

Um, the next game in the series is a game I have not played.

It was for mobile phones.

No,

it was called Kingdom Hearts Coded.

And it was eventually remade for the DS, but I just never

got it.

Where I believe it was called Recoded, right?

Yes, it was.

It was called Recoded.

Recoded.

Recoded, yeah.

Coded.

But again, it's just another sort of retelling game.

It's very interesting that they're so focused on

your memories and what they mean and

the context in which you remember them and stuff.

Speaking of memories, I'm horrified by how many of the names of these games I actually remember.

Like, why is recoded in my head?

That could have been a memory, that could have been a memory of like my dad.

Like, I don't,

and instead, it's Kingdom Hearts Recoded, is it?

Recoded.

And then the next game is released for the Nintendo DS and it's called Kingdom Hearts 358 over two days.

And

it takes place, get this, in sort of three times.

times.

It takes place near the end of the first game.

So not at the end of it, but sort of

in tandem with the end of the game.

And then it's in tandem with all of Chain of Memories.

And then there's a part of it that is leading up to Kingdom Hearts 2.

And it's released after Kingdom Hearts 2, I should say.

Is this one good?

What's the consensus on this one?

This one is good.

It's a game about Roxas, who is Sora's nobody, who

is like his other half.

He's a blonde version.

He's kind of a handsome little guy in a jacket, and he loves salty ice cream.

He loves salty ice cream.

And he, so he's, it takes.

That makes two of us, by the way.

I mean, here's the thing: same.

I love it.

That's good.

Not too salty.

I don't want it to be like all salt.

Yeah, of course not.

But he gave me a little smack of salt in there.

I'm going to be like, this is good shit.

This game is about is about Roxas and his time in Organization 13, so you get a little bit more backstory in these games.

What Tetsuya Nomura has said about these spin-off games, they all seem kind of crazy if you think about it too much.

Like, it's like, oh, the main story isn't even in all the games, right?

But his

thought on the spin-off games on different

on different platforms is those are stories that we don't have time to tell in the main game.

So, like, if you want, they're not necessary exactly, but they are helpful to the overall understanding.

They are skippable if you want to skip them, um, but they do make up the entire story.

If you want, they don't want to spend too much time with new characters because the first couple hours in Kingdom Hearts 2, you're playing as Roxas, and that feels insane because it's uh, you think you're getting uh

uh riden again, yeah.

You think you're getting, yeah, yes,

but uh, then you do switch over to Sora and then you realize what Roxas' whole deal is.

Um, but it's I like it.

I think it's a really good one.

I don't know if I don't think I still have it.

Uh, and I wasn't able to replay it in the um HD remix collections because a lot of these games they don't remake or or remaster.

They did do it for Chain of Memories.

They did a PlayStation like 2 version of it.

Uh, but sometimes they just put the cinematics from the games

on the disc, and you can watch them and experience the story that way.

And oftentimes, they'll add scenes that are not in the game, like to cover for the stuff that you experience in the game.

They'll just add stuff.

So it's like you get like a whole three-hour movie of Kingdom Hearts on one of these collection sets, which is pretty cool, I think.

The next is Birth by Sleep, which is the PSP game.

And this is now set 10 years before

the

first Kingdom hearts game and this one as i said earlier i think is like the second best game in the series it is very very good um wow you play as three characters um

and who are terra ventus and aqua

and they all rock and they you can it's all you play through their their stories separately so it's like the same story from all three of their perspectives um and there's a scene at the end of it where where one of them, because one of them is Roxas by a different name.

And I can't remember which name is his, unfortunately.

I think it's Ventus.

I think he's Ventus.

At the end, there's like a part where he's like, if something happens to me,

kill me.

And they're like, this is a fucking kid.

This is crazy.

And at this point, they're starting to ease off on the Final Fantasy characters.

And the only one that is in Birth by Sleep is Zach from Final Fantasy VII,

which is, oh, and Crisis Core.

Really specific choice.

Yeah.

And I had a PSP when this game was out, but I didn't get this one.

And I played it only as the 2.5 HD remix version.

But I do think it's the second best after two.

It's really, really good.

Is there any speculation as to why it became more Disney, less Final Fantasy?

Well, I think it's.

I think I read an interview about this.

I think so, too.

And it was that once

the cast of the original Kingdom Hearts cast had been built out so much, there wasn't a lot of room for Final Fantasy characters.

Sure, that makes sense.

Yeah.

You don't need

helping out in missions.

Yeah.

Taking that, being the taking the place of like the traditional JRPG character.

Yeah,

you know, when you have a a lot of those from your own franchise, that makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, you don't need to see like Waka running around or stuff.

The only thing that's retained, I think, is,

I mean, yeah, he could walk around if he wants.

The only thing that's still in all of them is Moogles.

Moogles are

at like item shops and things like that.

It's strange with all this conversation, Matt, that you haven't spent an hour talking about the gummy ship.

Well,

the gummy ship is one of the things that I don't like, unfortunately.

You don't like the gummies?

Oh, I think gummy stuff is fun.

I don't love it.

To me, that stuff is like,

I don't,

I like that there's like a reason to have a mini-game for Traversal, I guess, but I also kind of just want to get there.

You can skip that stuff once you've done it once.

But I've never really like...

optimized my gummy ship.

You can get through like the whole game with the base gummy ship.

You know what I mean?

Like you don't have to like really soup it up

in the way that it's encouraging you to.

But they've also changed the gummy ship

section a few times.

And I think it became okay in three.

I think the first version of it is bad.

In two, it's like whatever.

And then in three, it's like, it's fine.

But I don't particularly love it.

I do like to see Chip and Dale.

in the in the first one.

That's where you see them.

And

as a twin, those are my guys, you know.

I don't know if they're canonically twins, but um, you know, they're they're at least brothers.

I like, I just, I guess I just like the idea of a gummy ship in general, and you're a gummy skeptic to its implementation.

I'm a gummy skeptic, but the you know, I, as I, as I tend to say, just speaking for myself, gummy ain't yummy, but the idea of like of a gummy ship is you know, I don't like it.

What is that?

I'm worried I'm gonna eat it.

Oh,

I might take a bite.

Um, I didn't.

It's not my.

I don't like it because it's like not fun.

Yeah, it's not.

It's all of the stuff you can do in Kingdom Hearts.

It's not fun, unfortunately.

But the rest of it is very good.

Is the, is the flip side of that.

This next one is called

Kingdom Hearts 3D Dream Drop Distance.

And you guessed it.

It's for the Nintendo 3DS.

Oh, maybe I played that one too.

I didn't.

This was one I didn't play because at this point, I was out.

I kind of had falling out with Kingdom Hearts a little bit.

Let me.

You're a little older and you're kind of, you know,

yeah,

you're not a kid anymore.

Maybe you're like feeling more like a grown-up and like, ah, this 3DS game about this kids franchise maybe is a little bit less for me.

This is one of those.

Heather has stepped away to try to retrieve

the box for this game.

I do remember this game and I remember specifically the subtitle.

Yeah.

Because I, I mean, all these games have great subtitles, but Dream Drop Distance is pretty great.

And I also like the idea of it being a 3DS thing, but we've got 3Ds is the way that it's implemented.

Really, really good.

I love that as well.

Very clever.

And in this game, you play Asora and his friend Riku and you do drop.

It's called drop because there's like a drop system.

And what that is, is you have a certain amount of time.

in each part of the story to do what you're doing on in in that part of the story and then once you run out of time, you switch to the other character, which is pretty fun.

Is this the same Riku as from Final Fantasy X?

It's a different Riku, actually.

It's a different Riku.

And they were going to put Riku in the first one, and then they swapped in Riku for Yuffie.

Because I think that was too confusing.

That was too much for Kingdom Hearts.

We can't have two Rikus, two different Rikus.

Heather is now holding up the box for the Nintendo.

The box art for

usually really good.

That's some really nice box art.

Yeah, it's great.

I think all the

art direction of this series is really great.

I've played this one.

I played about half of this through.

I played about half of it on the 2.4, you know, one of their HD remix

games.

Yeah.

And I do think it's really fun.

I just never finished it.

The thing that this one has going for it over

Kingdom Hearts 2 is that the Tron world is more inspired by Tron Legacy than the original Tron.

That's fucking

Heather, what are you holding up there?

So I guess I, you know, it came with cards.

Yeah.

And I don't know if these are, so the 3DS could do those AR cards.

Like, if you put down those cards on the desk or whatever, they'd do stuff.

And there's three cards in here that are in, you know, perfect condition because by the time the 3DS comes out, I'm, I'm working.

Yeah.

And so, like, it becomes humiliating in those first, before I, before I decide to be like, fuck this, I'm a nerd.

Everybody needs to know it.

I'm not going down.

I'm not backing down.

I really hid for a while my gaming and nerddom.

Mary likes to tell the anecdote of when she first came over to my apartment.

uh you know like on a to for a dinner or whatever i didn't have any visible nerd stuff.

Not a single action figure out, not a video game in sight, nothing.

Wow.

And that's because I had gone in the closet as a nerd.

Like I was like hiding everything.

So when the 3DS comes out, I'm working at like, I'm working at Saturday Night Live

and I

use it to take I use it to take 3D photos of like the writer's room and stuff and some of the shows, and like show those to people.

I'd be like, oh, isn't this neat?

You can take 3D photos with this thing.

But I certainly wasn't gaming, like, not in front of people.

So, right.

So, yeah, I don't.

Ladies and gentlemen, it's Sora Donald and Goofy.

Master flow motion to execute acrobatic movements and attacks.

Oh, yeah, I forgot about flow motion.

Flow motion.

I wish I had played this one on

the 3DS,

but I simply did not.

But

I played it a little bit on my PS5

in that HD remix.

And then the next game that came out in the series, actually, that's not the 1.5 remix.

And these remix collections, I should say, are just HD compilations of some of the previous games.

So 1.5 is Kingdom Hearts, the final mix,

RE chain of memories, or re-chain of memories, and 358 over two days.

And then 2.5 is Kingdom Hearts 2, Birth by Sleep, and

Recoded.

But then there's also a 2.8 Final Chapter Prologue.

Yes, there's another one right there.

That is Kingdom Hearts, Dream Drop Distance HD,

Kingdom Hearts 0.2 Birth by Sleep, a fragmentary passage, which is one that I actually have not played because I haven't gotten to that yet.

And then

there's a series called kingdom hearts it looks like a stylized x but it's pronounced key

it's pronounced key

interesting uh and that is a

um

kingdom hearts key is um

like the greek character yes got it uh and these these were set in a uh in the earliest era of kingdom hearts and uh you could create your own character and join one of the five unions in the quest to collect Lux, a mysterious light, and fend off darkness known as Heartless.

And this was a web browser game as well.

And

if it was a web browser, I wasn't doing it.

But for some reason, this web browser one was canon and did tell stuff about the cataclysmic Keyblade War.

And then the next game after that is Kingdom Hearts 3, which I'm sad to say, I never finished.

I never finished.

I don't think you're alone in this.

I think a lot of people, I think a lot of even enthusiasts bounced off of this game.

I mean, I heard it was, it was quite a bumble.

There's stuff in it that I really liked.

There is a, there's, I mean,

not to be like a frozen hater, but there's a frozen area that I did not love.

And

you have to, you basically do all of, do you want to build a snowman and let it go

in in a mini-game.

You hear all of it.

And I'm like, we don't have to do this.

Yeah, that feels excessive.

And there's already a bad rhythm section in Kingdom Hearts 1

in the Little Mermaid area

that sucks.

That stuff is not their strong suit.

Although, the final game in the series as of now is Kingdom Hearts Melody of Memory, which is a rhythm action game that...

is set after Kingdom Hearts 3 and the DLC, which is called Remind.

And it retells the entire story of the series, but in a rhythm game format, which is insane.

Did you mess around with Remind with the DLC?

I didn't because I never, I mean, I was like,

I heard that the DLC was actually good and people really liked the DLC.

Yeah, I wonder if there was any redemptive quality to the whole package from that.

I don't know.

I do want to

at some point jump back into uh kingdom hearts 3

um maybe start over and experience it all the way through um and and play the the dlc so i can see what's going on because as heather mentioned earlier kingdom hearts 4

i'm hearing 2026.

that's what i've heard as well uh and more more than that i've i've heard that it takes place in the real world which is something that it feels like tetsu Nomura has been trying to do for so long.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm very excited for it.

Just

based on, I guess, nothing.

Like, I've been,

like, why would I not be excited for it?

It's like, it's, these are my favorite games.

I love these.

I don't think I dislike any of the ones that I've played.

There are some that I like more than others, of course.

And obviously, like Nick pointed out,

there's a lot of affectionately stupid stuff in these games, but I'll always play a new Kingdom Hearts game now.

I feel like I can't make the

mistakes I've made in the past of skipping them.

I gotta just see them through and

experience it.

Because in many ways, there are no other games like this.

I mean, there are a lot of games that are strange, and there are a lot of, of course, JRPGs, and this follows a lot of that type of stuff.

But Kingdom Heart, there's nothing like Kingdom Hearts as far as

It's all crazy stuff.

It's really, really good.

And

I mean,

I feel like there's not a way to really talk about the whole series without, like, there's, because it's all,

it's all gobbledygook.

It's all nuts.

Like, I've talked about what the world is, right?

There's, like, the, uh, there's multiple realms in these games.

There's the realm of light, the realm of darkness, and then the realm between.

And that's where most of the action of these games takes place in the realm between.

Right.

And I talked about Keyblades.

I didn't talk about this about Keyblades, really.

In each world, there's a Keyblade that sort of looks like the world.

So like in the Jack Skellington area, there's like Spooky Keyblade.

Yeah.

Cool.

In the Tarzan area, there's like Jungle Keyblade.

That's pretty cool, too.

Yeah, that is cool.

And then some of them just kind of look like swords.

And they have different buffs and things like that, which is pretty fun.

I recently, of course, I've mentioned got a tattoo of a Keyblade.

I got the two become one Keyblade.

That is a Keyblade that is only in the 2.5 remix of Kingdom Hearts 2.

I love that.

I love how specific it is.

It's a very, very cool-looking Keyblade.

I love it so much.

Um, gosh, I've talked about Organization 13, uh, the Heartless and the Nobodies.

There's all this stuff in these games where it's more like if there's a dark side, there's a light side.

So, if the, if there's heartless and they're, they're dark and

they're black, the nobodies, they're white.

Sure.

But they're the same type of thing, kind of.

It's always two sides of the same coin.

And then there's these two.

There's Master Xehanort, who's like the main guy who's sort of trying to orchestrate this whole thing.

And he's like the main antagonist of the entire franchise.

Everything bad that has been going on is because of Xehanort.

And that's a thing that you have to hear a lot in these games, names like Zehanort.

Good name.

It's pretty good.

And then the main thing at the end of the day is

it's all about your friends.

And it's all about the struggle between darkness and light and how your friends can help you sort that out.

And I mean, isn't that what we're doing here?

Who's your, who's your, here's a, here's a question for you.

Who's who are who's your like favorite Kingdom Hearts character or characters?

And did you have also a related question?

Who do you remember being like the most useful party members or your favorite party members to use?

Oh, yeah.

Well, because obviously your main party is Sora, Donald, and Goofy.

And then when you go to different worlds, you can often recruit like the main character of the world that you're in to your party and sub them out for Donald or Goofy.

Well, I mean, I'm just a big nightmare for a Christmas guy, so I love Jack Skellington and I like seeing him.

Yeah.

I just like seeing him.

I think he's a cool character, cool character design.

In the Agrabah world, you get Aladdin.

I've always been a big Aladdin fan.

Those are all Kingdom Hearts 1 area

people, but

I loved recruiting Tron

to the party, too.

None of them are so good.

Yeah.

They're all basically like...

Just another guy, but they have their unique sensibility or their unique power, which is cool.

You also have summons.

Like you can summon the genie, which is pretty fun.

And you can summon him in any world, which is cool.

Whereas like the

guest party

members can't be in other worlds, but you can bring, you know, Genie to

Pirates of the Caribbean or whatever.

And that's like fun to see.

I actually don't even remember who's in.

Kingdom Hearts 3, which is interesting.

A lot of the games take place in a lot of the same worlds.

Like, so you'll see,

you know, different parts of

Halloween town.

You'll see it in one game, and it'll be in a different game.

And you'll be like, oh, this is, I've been here before, but it's a little different now, which is, which is fun.

But my favorite, as far as frag characters go, obviously, it's, you know, Sora is my guy.

Sure.

I love Sora.

He's maybe one of my favorite characters, like, in things.

Like, uh, and it should, it should be noted that Donald is canonically the only

wizard or

mage in any Final Fantasy game to release a, uh, he's done the most powerful spell of any

magic user in a Final Fantasy game.

It's been him,

uh, which is pretty sick.

Uh, it's like Giga

something.

Um,

what is it?

Hold on.

And then there's like all these memes of the game, too, where you're like, Donald is your healer, of course.

And

there's this noise.

If you have low health, that's like a siren that's like,

and Donald won't be healing you.

It's like, so it's so frustrating.

You could have it set to always heal and he won't do it.

Okay, so this thing right here says, Donald Duck is considered by many fans to be the most powerful mage in all,

in all of Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts.

For a long time, his reign as the supreme magic user in the franchise was unchallenged.

Oh, but now I guess he's been usurped because of the release of Final Fantasy 16.

Oh, well, good.

Interesting.

They couldn't let that slide, I guess, could they?

They had to take it back.

Like, it can't be Donald.

It's got to be Clive.

No, when, when I think that's a bit of a mistake, honestly.

When Kingdom Hearts 4 comes out, he's going to heal the world.

He's going to like,

he's going to heal the entire fucking universe or something in a single spell.

Yeah.

Oh, it was

Bahamut from Final Fantasy 16 is now the most powerful, which is pretty cool.

If it's going to be anybody from Final Fantasy, might as well be Bahamut.

What is the source on this?

This article

on Kotaku.

Okay.

So I got it.

I got to accept it as gospel.

Yeah, sure.

I'm trying to think if there's anything else I want to say about these games before we roll into the segment.

Here's a question I have for you.

What do you think about how much in terms of your passion for this game, how much of

is the gameplay driving it?

And how much is the story driving it?

Like, is it an even split or is this something where for me, I play, I do like JRPG combat, but when I'm really into a JRPG, a lot of times it's the story that's really pulling me through it.

And I think that's common for most people.

Even though if you asked me gun to my head to tell you the story off the top of my head right now, or I'm dead and I couldn't do it, I do think the story is pretty fun.

And it's the reason they keep coming back because, like, I was just talking earlier about these Final Fantasy VII characters and how you spend so much time with them, and how you get to, you know, just learn so many things about them and

see them go through so many different changes and so many different

trials and tribulations and stuff.

You have these same characters, even though they are Sora, Donald, and goofy most of the time, going through stuff, not just in one game, over several games.

So, there's not that much growth.

I mean, because Sora is roughly the same age, I think, in

three to two, but is maybe a little bit older from two to one.

So there's not that much time has passed, but a lot goes down.

So I do think that like the story is fun.

And I don't know, like, it's silly and dumb that like the Disney stuff is in there, maybe, but I, you know, I'm from Southern California, so I grew up going to Disneyland a lot.

So this

Disney stuff is like, I like that.

Like,

I like seeing that.

And it's like kind of funny.

And, like,

it just adds to the weirdness of it all, too.

And, like, I don't know.

So, I like seeing that.

And, like, I was more interested in that when I was playing it than I was in the Final Fantasy characters that I didn't know that well because I hadn't played any at that point, you know.

So, my first introduction to some of these characters was in Kingdom Hearts.

Like, I didn't know who Cloud was.

I thought Cloud was like a new guy

when I played, when I fought him as an optional boss in the Hercules

tournament area.

Like, I didn't know he was like a,

you know, a real guy.

I thought he was just from the game.

And I was like, oh, I guess he's a real guy.

Yeah.

Cloud is real.

Did you know who Sephiroth was by the time he showed up?

No, like, not really.

Wow.

So, like, so when that music happened, you were like, uh-oh, who is this?

I mean, I can tell from the music that this was like a scary guy.

But I didn't know.

I had no idea.

You know, like, those are my introduction to those characters.

So, in that respect, too, I owe Kingdom Hearts a lot because maybe I wouldn't have even been interested in Final Fantasy at all if it weren't for these games.

Yeah, it seems like it was a formative gaming experience for you, these games.

Yeah,

That's a big part of what got you into games and informed what kind of games

you want to play.

And I do, but to speak on the combat too,

I do love the combat.

Like, it's just hack and slash.

You're just pressing square a lot is the thing, but like you can get different like abilities too.

So like you have like another menu, like limits or something, right?

Where like you can have like a different attack or like a specialized attack.

And it's like that's like like

or what are they i can't remember what they're called in final fantasy 7 but like when you have like braver or like limit breaks limit breaks yeah and like those those are really cool i i like i like having those and then like you just get all the different types of magic too and so then it's becomes

which like which magic spells are you going to upgrade uh what attacks are you going to upgrade what keyblades are you going to be using because like i said like not every keyblade is they're not all equal.

So, like,

optimizing your build, as it were, um, can make or break the game.

Cause, like, I remember being a kid and being in the final boss area and having to do it over and over and over again because I was just not, just not getting it.

Like, at that point, I had never finished a JRPG before

and like, just didn't know what I was doing.

And then finally just being like, I got to just like, I think change up what I'm, my, my whole thing and just like starting like from scratch and like switching out my Keyblade and things like that.

And then finally getting it and feeling so accomplished.

Also, because the

final boss in Kingdom Hearts 1 is the guy you've been seeing all this time, Ansom, turned into a ship.

Turned into like a ship that's like a guy.

And it sucks to look at.

It's ugly and gross, but it's, you know, very in line with

Final Fantasy.

Final Bosses.

It just looks nuts.

But

the thing, yeah, I mean, the story and the gameplay are both like, I'd say, the things that I really love about it because it just feels fast and loose.

And I don't know, like,

I think it's like

they're so methodical with the story.

It's so funny.

I've heard anecdotally.

They take it very, very seriously.

There has to be a reason

for

why this character is talking to this character and when, and things like that.

Like, it can't, it's not just like, I'll just put him there.

Uh, it seems more cynical than that.

It's, it's kind of not.

They have to think about it very seriously, and like they come up with good reasons for why Sora would be having a conversation with Olaf, for example.

Uh, like, they don't just pick whatever.

I mean, at that point, they probably were like, Let's get frozen in here because it's hot.

But, like, some of these other Disney IP, they're like, Let's, let's go back to Steamboat Willie era and we'll do a level in black and white.

Like, that's cool.

I like that.

That is cool.

And, and of course, Pete is the main antagonist in that level.

Here's another question for you.

And then

I want to see if Heather has any final questions or final thoughts as well.

But like, I, my, my last question would be, you talked about Kingdom Hearts 4 is on the horizon.

As a fan of the franchise who is maybe a little bit less enthused about its most recent mainline entry, what do you hope to see in KH4?

I mean, Disney is so different now than it was

when Kingdom Hearts 3 was even out, right?

They've acquired so much.

I want like in the Disney parks are so different.

I honestly wouldn't mind like a haunted mansion.

area.

I think that could be kind of cool.

Like just

theme it after the ride Uh, could be pretty cool.

Um, I wouldn't be shocked if they were trying to get a Star Wars area in there, it would be insane.

A lightsaber Keyblade is just it's it's such a gimme, yeah, like,

you know, they uh, they put in a Star Wars area, but it's the Star Wars Galactic, a Star Cruiser hotel.

Like, this sucks.

It's Galaxy's Edge from the theme park, and it has to take place.

That does feel kind of Tato Nomura-ish.

Like,

just like, no,

I want it to be the hotel.

The closed hotel?

Nobody likes you?

Yes.

Yes.

Okay.

My question for Matt.

Yeah.

Oh, sorry, Matt.

I didn't realize you were still there.

No, there's a, in the trailer for Kingdom Hearts 4,

there's a very brief glimpse at something that looks like it could be the foot of

ATST

on the Battle of Endor.

Wow.

Love that.

So, who knows?

Matt, my question is:

I love the music of Kingdom Hearts.

Yes.

Do you have a specific area

that

is like your go-to?

Like, oh, I really like this theme.

I'll go first while you think.

Yes.

I love the original Traverstown theme.

Oh, so cozy.

Yeah, I know that.

Very cozy vibes.

I think you may be playing it on the podcast.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's really good.

It feels like

because it's such a short loop, it also feels like a real core memory.

Like hearing that.

That and the opening piano of all these fucking games.

It's like, oh, wow, I'm

much younger.

The music in the Hollow Bastion area

goes pretty hard.

That's where you meet the beast from Beauty and the Beast.

Yep.

Yep.

The music in there is pretty intense because it kind of just feels like everything's fucked at that point.

But I really like that area.

And then, you know, it's fun to hear the spins on the like.

The Danny Alfman Nightmare Before Christmas score.

That's probably like my favorite area just because I like the aesthetic of it too.

Yeah.

And I like to hear what they're doing with the honestly, the space paranoids, Tron music fucking rips, actually.

It's really, really good from Kingdom Hearts 2 and then from

Dream Drop Distance.

But I would say, yeah, those.

And then a lot of the boss music is really good.

The boss, when you're

in Kingdom Hearts 1, the music that's playing when you're fighting the big guy from Fantasia,

that like big sort of demon thing that's coming out of the volcano.

Oh, yes, right.

Yeah.

A really awesome boss fight where you're flying around.

Also, you can fly.

And you can fly sometimes for a little bit if you have a thing from Peter Pan that he gives you.

But you have to have it equipped.

But that music is always really.

Because I played that section so much because I died a lot in those final moments early on when I was playing it.

But now I can't even.

I mean, I guess I played through these games maybe like two years ago at this point.

Like I played through Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2 when they were on Game Pass.

And

I mean, with this new release, I'm kind of fixing to maybe at least do two again.

I love playing Kingdom Hearts 2 any chance I get.

Yeah, I will say over the course of this episode,

I added Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 plus 2.5 Remix, HD 2.8 Final Chapter Prologue, and Kingdom Hearts 3 3 plus Remind DLC, all to my

ever-growing wish list on Steam.

Hell yeah.

I do hope to actually tackle these at some point.

They get better.

Like the first one, I feel like is like vegetables.

It's a little slow.

Yeah.

But I know what I'm getting into when I'm playing a 20-year-old game.

So

I'm not going to be too precious about it.

Gosh, 20 years.

Life.

More than.

More than, yeah.

Gosh, what happened to me?

I used to have it all.

Time rocks, right?

That fucking sucks.

My back hurts.

That was really well done, Matt.

I felt like I was all over the place rambling, but I hope you guys get what these games are to me.

They're a mess.

It's a nightmare to think about.

Kind of fitting, though.

If that's your self-evaluation.

Yes.

I feel insane.

But let's move on to a segment.

I love it.

So I mentioned earlier that Kingdom Hearts is the 10th highest selling PS2 game of all time.

Right.

Let's see if Nick and Heather can guess the remaining top nine in our recurring segment pixel chart.

Oh, we got to guess nine of these.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

Question up top.

Are any of these from the same franchise?

Yes, a couple of them.

A couple of them.

So there are some repeats.

All right, go ahead.

I'm ready to go.

Let's see what happens.

Grand Theft Auto, San Andreas.

Number one.

Number one on this list.

All right.

Let's go with what we're.

I'll say what the numbers are first.

So Kingdom Hearts, number 10, 5.9 million sold, right?

Yeah.

Now that we have number one, San Andreas sold 17.33 million.

Quite a few copies of that game.

Now, is this worldwide sales or North American sales?

This is worldwide.

This is worldwide.

Okay.

I'll just guess.

We'll just see if the other Grand Theft Autos are on there.

Is Vice City on there?

Vice City is on here, number four, 10.5 million sold.

And is GTA 3 also on there?

Number six on the list.

Okay.

8.305.

Very granular.

Yes.

Now, is that it for the Grand Theft Auto franchise?

It's off the board, yeah.

Okay.

All right, let's see.

Final Fantasy X.

Final Fantasy X is number five on this list, 8.5 million sold.

I'm going to guess

another

GT game.

Is there Gran Turismo on there?

There might be.

Is Gran Turismo 3 on there?

Gran Turismo 3 ASpec, 14.89 million.

Number two on the list.

Wow.

Number two, Gran Turismo.

Yeah, I remember that being a huge franchise.

Okay.

Okay.

Are there any other let's let me think?

Um

are there it I guess that we could see if there's another Final Fantasy on there is is Final Fantasy 12 on there?

Number nine on the list with six million.

Wow.

Wow.

No way.

Final Fantasy XII is on the list.

Yeah, I thought that was a, that was more niche than that.

And I'm actually staggered that it outsold Kingdom Hearts 2.

I would have, I would have never guessed that.

Yeah, I guess maybe

just what is it called?

Brand recognition, right?

People are going to buy Final Fantasy at this point

in the series, maybe not at 16,

but at that time, people were still buying Final Fantasies.

So, how many slots have we?

We've got two Final Fantasies, three GTAs, so that's five.

Yeah, there's maybe one more in a series that has been previously mentioned, and then two

other games.

Is there?

Okay, go on.

Sorry, Gran Turismo,

Kingdom Hearts.

So we're only missing three more games.

There's three more games on there.

Okay,

I don't know.

Fuck, because I don't remember the subtitle, and I don't remember if

it was a number four, but I'll just guess Gran Turismo 4.

It is Gran Turismo 4 is number three on the list, 11.76 million released.

Does it have a subtitle?

I just have Gran Turismo 4.

I think that's it.

Gran Turismo 3 is 8.

Two more games.

Two more games.

Okay, I'll just.

We haven't missed a shot yet, Nick.

Be careful.

You guys are doing really good.

All right, then I'll maybe I'll hold my fire because I was going to take a swing.

No, take a swing.

Because we're talking worldwide, I wonder if skewed by Japan sales of Dragon Quest VIII is on there.

It is not on the list, you fucking idiot.

Nick just got up.

So, I'm so upset.

He got up and he, I think he's trying to set his dick on fire.

God.

Fucking thing won't start.

I'll say one of these is going to be impossible to guess, and one of these is a game we've played.

I mean,

I have an idea, but go on, Heather.

I have an idea.

Yeah.

Resident Evil 4.

Not on the list, unfortunately.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Are these third-party games?

Is one of them a third-party game?

At least one of them.

Okay.

I will guess metal gear solid 2 sons of liberty that is on the list number seven

oh and that's the that's the there's not another metal gear that is not a metal gear on the list what about god of war god of war not on the list ah is this a is this a first-party game no okay is this a sports game sort of is it sort of is it ssx it is not

this is that the right is that the right ballpark?

It is

no.

Okay, sort of a sports game.

If you think of this particular thing that they're doing in this game as a sport, but they might be doing it just for fun.

I don't know what the lore is.

Okay, okay.

So

is this a third-party game as well?

Did you already say that?

Yes.

Okay, this is a third-party game.

And see, I'm thinking of it differently because at this time, I would say Metal Gear was a first-party game, no?

Because it was like PlayStation exclusive.

It was, but it was developed by Konami.

I guess you're right.

Yes.

Oh, developed by Konami.

Then this is third-party as as well, yes.

Okay, all right.

So, this was a PlayStation exclusive.

This one is not,

this is not a PlayStation exclusive.

I would guess no, but it might be because it's sold so much.

Oh, okay.

Let me see.

I know what it isn't.

It is not God hand.

It is not a sound.

No,

but

you got to get it out there, right?

I guess it is PlayStation exclusive.

Can you give us the publisher?

Namco.

Oh, there's a Namco game.

Okay.

Nana, na na na na na na na na na na na na.

Could you imagine the world that we would live in if Tatamari Damasi was in the top 10 highest selling mega hit?

Sensation.

But it wouldn't be a Ridge Racer.

It wouldn't be the president of the United States if that were the case.

Yeah.

It wouldn't be a Ridge Racer because

that's a driving franchise and that's probably too explicitly a sports game.

Is it a fighting game?

It is.

Is it Tekken 4?

It is not.

Is it Tekken Tag Tournament?

It is not.

Fuck.

Is it Naruto Fighters?

No.

Is it a Tekwor game?

Is it a Tekken game?

It is a Tekken game.

Okay.

Is it a numbered Tekken game?

Because I'll just guess another number.

It is.

Is it Tekken 5?

It is.

Okay, there we go.

It is Tekken 5.

That is the top 10 highest-selling games on the PlayStation 2.

Number 10, Kingdom Hearts.

Number 9, Final Fantasy 12.

Number 8, Tekken 5.

Number 7, Metal Gear Solid 2, Sons of Liberty.

Number 6, Grand Theft Auto 3.

Number 5, Final Fantasy 10.

Number 4, Grand Theft Auto, Vice City.

Number 3, Grant Turismo 4.

Number 2, Grand Turismo 3, ASPEC.

And number 1, Grand Theft Auto, San Andreas.

That really just kind of...

I think maybe this is the generation where the sales just completely shift over to the West.

And we see how much like...

games, whether they were Western developed or not,

games that were targeted at Western consumer preferences, you know, dominated the global sales charts.

That's really, that's really interesting how that happened.

Honestly, too, like looking at this, this is a banger list.

Like, I know.

Oh my God, a lot of great games on there.

I'm not a huge Gran Turismo person or a big Tekken person, but these are all bangers.

Yeah,

I don't really play racing games, but and the Tekken game I played was Tekken Tag Tournament.

I think that's what four was.

I don't know if they actually released a four, but

I'm not the biggest fighting game guy myself, but yeah, those are all well-regarded.

And I know the Grand Treismo franchise people loved or

maybe still love.

I'm surprised that Kingdom Hearts even got in there based on just these other ones.

They had in the games that aren't on here too, isn't that interesting?

Kingdom Hearts over God of War, Kingdom Hearts over,

you know, Prince of Persia and the Sands of Time, or, you know,

another favorite of mine, any other my favorites.

But I'm happy it's there, and I'm glad you guys let me talk uh non-stop about

Kingdom Hearts today.

I loved it.

I, I, I could, I'll take all that that you got.

Yeah, I also.

Okay, dude, I have 10 more pages in like Google Doc.

Speaking for myself, if you hadn't spotted us Kingdom Hearts 2, I wonder if I would have gotten it.

I might not have,

I probably would have guessed a bunch of other things before I got landed there at number 10.

Pretty, pretty, uh, I know, 10 could have been anything.

Yeah, it could have been a bit of Jack and Daxter, could have been a pillstone,

Twisted Metal Black for Crime Dash.

Yeah, I kind of thought like a God of War 2 or a Twisted Metal Black might make it on there, but here we go.

Could have been Crash Bash.

Na na na na na na na na.

In a perfect world, it would have been Katamari Dama.

See, it would have been really, really good.

It's actually, we love Katamari the sequel.

With 64 million copies sold.

Every or every person that bought

a PlayStation 2, it was a one-to-one sale.

By the way, we made it through an entire Kingdom Hearts episode without talking about how Ranch's BF just replays these games obsessively.

Mark told me in my DMs that he's starting Final Fantasy VII Remake, and I said, let's fucking go.

Wow.

Let's do that.

Wow.

Mark's a king.

I love that.

I like to hear it.

That's this week's Get Play at our producer is Rochelle Chen Ranch yard underscore underscore sard on social.

Our music is by Ben Prunty, BenPruntyMusic.com.

Our art is by DuckBrigade Design, DuckBrigade.com.

And hey, check out our Patreon, patreon.com slash get played, where you can find our entire pre-head gun back catalog plus ad-free main feed episodes and also our Patreon exclusive show, Get Animate, where we continue to watch the 8th MS team, MobileSuit Gundam.

It's not just a watch, it's a live.

We're continuing to live

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It rocks.

Patreon.com slash GetBlade.

Hey, we should note, Heather, you're going to be gone for a couple of weeks.

The Fortnite Enthusiast will be gone for a fortnight.

You are going to Japan.

Yes, Nihone, Ikimas, I'm going to Japan

and I'm going to have a good time.

And maybe, if we're lucky,

maybe I'll do a couple World Warrior segments while I'm abroad.

But I've had a tough six months on taking a vacation yeah no absolutely well deserved yeah

i am uh i'm celebrating i'm gonna go to the godzilla store guys i can't wait to go to the gozilla i've never been to the godzilla store do you think he works there if he does

i hope he i hope he crushes me to death

what a way to go um

he's like he's like real put off because i'll be like oh no don't don't crush me he's like i this is my job don't come harass me at my job.

Whoops.

Oops, I'm laying down.

My shoe has caught in this grating.

And actually, I don't think anybody got played today.

I think what we actually did was

we all figured out what our power was and that friendship is our power.

Friendship is our power.

Wow.

That was a hit gum podcast.