Tiers of the Kingdom: 2D Mario Games

This is a head gun podcast.

Well, hey, I've been playing a lot of Mario Wonder.

Y'all been playing Mario Wonder?

Yeah.

Yeah, it's really good.

I have.

It's really lots of elephants.

It's really good.

It's just,

I got to be honest with you two.

Okay.

I am one of the people who auditioned to be the new voice of Mario, replacing Charles Martinay.

Oh shit.

Yeah.

And so like, I just, I'm playing it and the new voice actor is really good.

It's a great performance and they cast the right person, but I just like, I, I feel a little bit upset that it wasn't me, you know, because it would have been a dream.

Nick, I'm, yeah, I'm sorry to hear that.

That would have been a dream come true.

You know, I hate to say this.

I also auditioned for Mario.

Oh, my God.

That's wild.

I mean, it makes sense.

They probably were like, who are some great voice talents that are, you know, already, we know, are in video games, they probably naturally reached out to you.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's so interesting to hear that from the two of you.

This feels like as good a time as any to also say

that I, too, auditioned for Mario.

Matt, of course you did.

It makes a little less sense, but like they, I think they were just sort of like, we got to see who we can see.

Sort of like, let's just get as many people in here as we can because we don't know what we're going to want until we hear it, sort of, you know?

So they didn't like my take, and that's fine, but I thought I thought I I did a pretty good job.

Yeah, they obviously didn't like my take either.

I mean,

should I just do my audition?

Yeah, yeah,

if you have the tape, I'd love to just hear it.

Yeah, I can, I can just play this back right here.

I have it on my desktop still.

All right, here we go.

Hey, I'm fucking Mario.

Who the fuck are you?

Oh, give me my pencils and shit.

I need my pencils.

I'm fucking Mario.

So, that's actually really good.

Yeah.

My thing, if I had to give you a note,

it's that, like, I just have never really thought about pencils with Mario at all.

It's kind of like nothing.

He's not really a pencils guy.

That was probably, you know, and I didn't hear it.

I just heard them say, like, we like you, but this isn't what we were thinking.

And probably the note behind the note was that, like, that was just like a weird choice, but I don't know.

It's what I went with.

Well, thank you for sharing that.

Do you guys want to hear mine?

Or is that like a moment?

Yeah, I would love to hear you.

Yeah, I really, I'm curious.

Hi, it's me, Princess Peach, Mario.

I'm Mario.

I'm Mario.

Not Peach.

I don't know why they didn't pick you.

No, that's

really right.

That's actually really good.

I guess if I had to guess maybe why they didn't pick you is because

you auditioned as Princess Peach doing Mario.

What?

Yeah, or I didn't correct you.

No, that was Mario.

Oh, that was Mario.

Okay, no.

Got it.

I just, yeah.

That was Mario the whole time.

Got it.

That makes sense.

No, no, yeah, that makes sense.

That was great.

They should have picked you.

They should have.

Yeah, no, they should have picked both of you.

I don't suppose you guys want to hear my take.

Matt, of course.

Yeah, I would love it.

I would love it.

All right.

I knew going in that I was doing something a little different, but I just wanted to put my stamp on it.

Okay, great.

Oi, it's me, Mario, isn't it?

I'm a peaky fucking blinder ain't i i am i am oi uh get me my chimney sweep eh my chimney's full of shit i fucking santa claus over here had diarrhea down my fucking chimney

oh it's me mario

uh again really good

i think it might have been the seasonal thing of like throwing santa in there they would have been like well this game's gonna come out i shouldn't have said

not necessarily a christmas a lot of a lot of you know like uh a lot of americans don't know about like the English tradition of diarrhea in a chimney on Christmas.

Yeah.

So it might have been like a little bit of like a thing where like,

yeah, they didn't, they just couldn't.

They were like, oh, that's not how Christmas is here.

They did.

The feedback that they gave me in the room is that they actually liked that I changed accents midway.

They liked that I sort of did two accents.

I thought that was a bold choice.

Yeah.

So I sort of went very English and then dice, like went dice clay kind of at the end.

Well, I'm bummed out that none of us got it because though the new guy is great, yeah, uh, it would have been a real delight to load up Mario Wonder and hear uh one of your takes or my own.

You know, though, let's let's for just for a point of comparison, let's just I'm just gonna boot up the game.

I got my switch uh screen shared on the zoom, and we can just hear some of the new

voice actor.

Yeah,

hey, I'm fucking Mario.

Give me my fucking pencils.

Fuck, he's good.

He's really good.

Yeah, he's so good.

We bounce off paragoombas and dress up in tanuki suits as we create our 2D Mario tier list this week on Get Played.

Welcome to Get Played, your one-stop show for good games, bad games, and every game in between.

It's time to get played.

I'm your host, Heather Ann Campbell, along with my fellow host, Nick Weiger.

That's a me, Nick Weiger.

I'm here with our third host, Matt Abadaka.

I'm stunned.

I loved that.

Heather, did you know he was going to do that?

I didn't know he was going to do it.

It was great.

You liked it too.

I loved it.

I loved it.

I loved it.

Hello, everyone.

It's a me, Matt Abadaka.

I want to do it too.

Hello, everyone.

It's Ami.

Welcome back, Bucket.

Yay!

The premiere video game podcast.

Get played.

That's right.

And we have exciting news at the top of this episode.

We, as of today, as of this episode, are now part of the Headgum Network.

Wow.

This is a headgum podcast.

This is now a headgum podcast.

You're going to hear that.

It's a headgum podcast.

This is a headgum podcast.

This is a headgum podcast.

This is our first episode as a headgum podcast.

That's right.

Does that mean our jokes will get better?

No.

Does that mean that we will rehearse this show?

No.

Does that mean we will plan out what we're going to do to sort of establish a new identity and like a new broadcast persona here for you on the headgum network absolutely not if you've been tuning in for our bullshit for all this time we are the same idiots that you have come to know and love yes and you're probably wondering as a listener how does this impact me in any significant way not at all you're hearing the episode in your feed already that's right and you have to do nothing you did a great job that's right we we obviously knew that this change was coming but we decided to wait until this point because we didn't want people to be like oh what do i have to do do on my podcast app?

Do I have to resubscribe?

Do I have to change my RSS feed?

Do I have to, you know, whatever?

Like, you don't have to do any of that.

It will keep coming to you in the same subscription that you've had.

And by knowing this was coming, we walked into the booth at Earwolf and Nick said, grab everything you can.

And I went, What?

And he said, Go, go, go, go, go.

And we ran all the way across town to the head gumster.

And you better believe I've stuffed my pockets with off-brand gummies,

veggie chips.

A thing of beef jerky that had dust on it.

Yeah, exactly.

We got all of it.

Greg Fitzsimmons CDs.

We hoarded all of it.

We do want to thank our past engineers over at Earwolf Stitcher.

First up, Alex Gonzalez, who's been with us most recently, an absolute dream to work with, total professional, and just

a ray of sunshine each week.

So thanks so much to Alex.

Thanks to Jordan Duffy, who was with us for a a stretch before then.

Jordan, another, another great engineer, and also gave us the Stream Daddy theme song, which we may still, you know, end up using at some point.

And speaking of theme songs, we, of course, want to thank Devin Bryant, our original engineer.

who

created our original theme song and was obviously such a huge part of helping shape the show over the first few years.

Also, thanks to Colin and Cody over there.

And yeah,

what a ride.

What a ride.

I was really bummed out to hear that the Resident Evil Merchant couldn't figure out his contracts and won't be joining us.

They locked him up.

There was the one guy they were like, we can't release him.

Yeah, he's too good, they say.

Yeah.

We got to figure out what to do with this guy.

So I think right now, the Resident Evil Merchant is one of the main hosts on Patriot Radio over on Sirius XN.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Politics are just nicely aligned there.

Yeah.

So

I think it should be.

Wait, go ahead.

What were you going to say, Nick?

No, no, no.

I was going to transition.

Go on.

Oh, I was going to transition and say that, you know, this was a really exciting

and important moment for us as a team and a cool podcast.

Like, I don't know, leveling up.

I, so the boys are in the studio and they are in this lovely studio that some of us have seen on social media.

I am in bed across town.

I'm having, so, you know, if you follow me on

anything,

I had a recurrence of cancer

and I am currently taking care of it.

I will be on the show as much as I possibly can over the next few months, but I will be in treatment and I don't know how aggressive that treatment will be.

But

I also want to say that without jinxing anything and without, you know, like my fear of magical thinking, my prognosis is really good.

So

it's not like I'm recording from underneath the house as the Wicked Witch of the East.

I'm just

the same old regular witch.

The same old

regular witch.

But yeah,

and a few of you have reached out over Discord or on the battle bus and

wished me in continued good health.

And I want to say thank you to the best fucking listeners on earth and the best Fortnite players on earth.

You, you're all incredible, and it has been a really moving.

I don't know.

It's been really moving and nice to have all that support.

So thank you.

And I'm going to try not to get emotional because that's not the kind of show we do.

We talk about sandwiches on this show.

Who's going to talk about this?

Wait, wait, no, wait, Heather, no, we don't actually.

It's a different show.

Yeah, we don't really do that here.

We're the soup podcast.

We talk about soup.

Heather, we love you.

We'll take you whatever we can get you.

We want to point out that you, Matt and I want to point out that you made an extra effort to make sure to be here for this episode, which

we're not expecting you to do, but you really want to be a part of it.

This headgum transition, we really appreciate you doing that

as you're later.

My voice sounds weird.

I'm on a weird mic that's balanced on my stomach as my feet are elevated above my heart and my throat is like shoved up into my into my brain.

Yeah.

But otherwise,

still it's still me yeah just want to shoot and stab and run around

they don't know how you normally record this is actually so exactly more of a normal way that you do it

um uh thank you for for sharing that heather and and thank you of course to everyone who's uh sent well wishes on your behalf i and i would do want one more bit of business before we get into things which is we have a new producer at headgum who we'll introduce next week they weren't able to join us but for today

we have a stud engineering with us in studio, our guest engineer, Chef Kevin Bartel from Hollywood Handbook.

Holy shit.

Hi, Chef.

Hi, guys.

Thanks for having me.

I'm pumped to be here.

Big fan.

Watch the first episode being recorded.

Honored to be here for this one as well.

It's been great to have you as

part of the extended family and as a listener.

And thank you so much for accommodating us in these circumstances.

It's great to have you.

Also, want to shout out our Dope Boys producer, Emma Erdbrink, who's going to be editing this episode.

nick texted me this yesterday and i literally said this is like the fucking avengers this rocks

on your left kevin comes out and is like already with the pro tools

i am wearing a doctor strange cape for the listener yeah kevin's sort of new thing that he's over here is that he's like a cape guy now i think it's a good look for you yeah you wear it well uh so we'll we'll announce our our we play you play for this month a little bit later probably next week we're still figuring that out but as for today today, we just want to talk about some video games.

And that brings me to the question we used to begin this discussion: which is, what are you playing?

What are you playing?

Oh my sword, no

immediately in breach of contract.

Oh my god, we're gonna get

sued.

Jake and Amir are gonna get sued.

Yeah,

don't do that.

Jake and Amir.

Hey, I just want to say, you know, I shouldn't be here.

Yes, you should not.

Huge error on my part.

I don't know if you've heard of a gag order, but I've got one of those from both

our former employers and the legal system.

So, yeah, just wanted to drop in before I got to go because I'm also in the middle of a car chase, so I have to run back out to the house.

Oh, my God.

But I wanted to know.

What are you playing?

Thank you for joining us, Resident Evil Merchant.

And, you know, I hope everything is all right.

Stay safe out there in the next

car crash.

Please don't endanger anybody.

No.

What are you playing is the question to the panel.

And I want to put it to Chef Kevin because I know you're a gamer yourself.

Chef, what have you been playing?

I'm playing a series I haven't played in 15 years.

My brother-in-law recently joined the Navy, and I'm struggling to have anything to talk about.

So, you know, like any good brother-in-law, you go to the library, you get a bunch of books to learn about the field uh i bought a bunch of call of duty video games and have been brushing those off for the first time since i was in seventh grade um and it's nice because i forgot how you could play on the easiest of easy modes so you can get shot in the chest eight times and then go okay so grenade or gun

so you're playing the single player call of duty so you're not playing like a war zone i'm playing uh modern warfare 2 the campaign and i bought three as well.

So I immediately hemorrhaged my bank account for probably 30 seconds of small talk this Thanksgiving.

Are they like fun?

Are you like super like into it?

Great question.

Not really.

It's like surprising.

Like I said, I haven't played these games in so long.

So my memory of it is pretty limited.

But I'm surprised that

I think what helps me is just, like I said, playing it on such an easy level.

Yeah.

I'm able to kind of plow through the campaign pretty quickly.

But after that, I will get the new Spider-Man game.

I have been texting Matt non-stop TikToks from the point of view of troubled burglars getting

their necks snapped by Spider-Man.

It's been making me laugh so hard.

They're so funny.

But like, like, what is your typical gaming diet?

Because I know you as somebody who does, you do play video games, but I feel like you have spurts where you're like actively like super into something.

Very, maybe you take a break for a while.

Yeah, I think it's like work-related when I'm busy.

I don't play for a while, probably like most people.

And then when I'm in, it's like my full-time job.

I loved cyberpunk and Spider-Man and

what else have I been playing?

Just a handful of like some of the newer stuff.

I bought a PC for the first time to play Diablo.

Not just to play it, but I wanted to get a gaming PC.

And so I

only like five hours in, but I've been really enjoying that.

I'm really similarly haven't.

done PC gaming.

I'm really channeling like seventh grade Kevin this last few months, which has been interesting.

Yeah.

A little organ trail, a little mass flat.

Yeah.

Watching arrested development.

Yeah, so Call of Duty right now, and then I know I'll get into Spider-Man after that and maybe like a Starfield or something after that.

Wow.

Wow.

Yeah.

There you go.

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Heather, what have you been playing?

Um, I haven't had a ton of video game time in the last few weeks,

but I do make time for Fortnite.

Unfortunately, because I've been sort of like on the phone, like my Fortnite games have either been really great with

Battle Bus Discord listeners

and or fellow real life friends.

But when I get a phone call, I have to drop immediately so that I can like get on the phone and like talk to doctors or like schedule appointments or whatever.

So there have been multiple games of Fortnite where I'm like charging into battle and all of a sudden, like, like the girl in the Matrix who's like, not like this, or I guess that's a non-binary character or was maybe never confirmed.

I don't know.

The person in the

in the Matrix who's like, not like this.

Yes.

Not like this.

And then just drops.

That's like been me in multiple Fortnite rounds.

And I feel so much guilt about it because

I take it really seriously.

Right.

When you're on a squad, you don't want to like leave people hanging.

So being

it's Fortnite forecast time and the big announcement is that tomorrow the original island is returning.

Wow.

Do you get do you guys like the very first season?

Yeah.

Very first island, very first items all returning tomorrow.

And it's called Fortnite OG.

And that's going to be the next season.

That's wild.

Certainly something I never experienced myself, but I, you know, yeah, me neither.

Yeah.

They also announced a Stranger Things collab.

So you can play as,

you know, as 11

with a shotgun,

with like an Attack on Titan backpack.

Right.

Shooting at Alan Wake.

So

makes as much sense as anything.

The character you're talking about, I believe, is Switch, the not like that character.

I believe that's who it is, right?

Because there's all there's like, there's like mouse and cypher and Trinity and I think

Switch.

The one in the white suit jacket.

Yes, but the,

I was remember, I remember it and like thinking back on The Matrix, the guy I always felt bad about was Tank because Dozer gets fucking like all the whole team gets wiped.

Tank survives, but Dozer's his brother, I think, is established.

It's like, oh man, what a bummer.

Yeah.

It's been a long time since I've seen The Matrix.

I have seen highlight reels of the way The Matrix Online, which was a canonical MMO,

ended, and it's all the characters being crushed into small polygons and making horrible screaming noises and then dying.

I love that.

That's so cool.

Isn't there like a big bug?

Like, doesn't Morpheus canonically get killed in the MMO by like a big bug?

I don't remember the details of that.

But yeah, there's all sorts of weird shit that actually ties into, you know, by the time we get to Matrix Resurrections, it's all like part of the established lore of the franchise.

So crazy.

Yeah.

I love it.

Yeah.

I love that commitment.

It's just like everything counts.

Yeah.

Like, why not?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Why not?

It's all fake anyway.

Who cares?

It's very Kingdom Hearts.

I mean, it really is.

The Matrix is Kingdom Hearts.

They're the one, they're one in the same for sure.

Matt, what are you playing?

Well, I'm playing two games right right now, two big ones.

And Heather wasn't here last week, so

I'm going to say this again and see what Heather thinks about it.

October 20th,

Friday, 2023.

Not the order you usually say those things.

Spider-Man 2 and Super Mario Wonder come out same day.

Yeah.

Barbenheimer, Oppenheimer, and Barbie come out same day, right?

Yep, yep.

Spider-Mario?

Wait, did you already say this on the show?

I did.

And it sort of was met with lukewarm.

I think Nick said, and I quote, that's what you came up with.

Well,

what do you think about that?

I guess I forgot to mention that I have been playing Super Mario Wonder in part for this show.

Yes.

Because, you know, you got to play the big hits to stay relevant.

As for what you said,

I don't know that there's anything to add, Matt.

It's, it's.

Okay, great.

We'll move on.

So I'm playing Super Mario.

Yeah, it sounded like Heather was going to say that she really liked it.

I was going to say, I was going to say, show me the real Barbenheimer.

No, the real Barbenheimer.

Spider-Mario.

Perfection.

Wow.

So Heather did really like it, actually.

That's great.

This is actually a huge win for me.

And I will be expecting a written apology from Sean Diston and Nick Weiger on my desk.

So I'm playing Super Mario Brothers Wonder,

and I'm sure we'll talk about that a little bit at some point.

But

there's some really hard levels.

This game does a great thing where it tells you the difficulty of the level before you start.

And a lot of them are in the one to two sort of range where I'm at right now.

But then there are these challenge levels that are like four, right?

There's like a star ranking that goes for the difficulty.

And

you're sort of like, okay, how hard can this be?

It's a Mario game.

Right.

And they're fucking hard.

Like, they're like, they're really hard.

And I beat this one that's called Jump, Jump, Jump.

And it's like a rhythm game level, basically, where there are these invisible, there are these outlines of blocks, and this sort of metronome starts.

And you have to jump on the blocks in rhythm because they appear in rhythm and they're constantly moving and I did this fucking like a hundred times wow and I when I got to the end of it I really felt like I did something like I like actually like really achieved something huge for them to be presented with another level just like that but instead of going

like around like or you know

This one and this next one, you go up.

Like there's like wall jumps where you have to go up in rhythm and stuff.

Yeah, yeah.

And it was so hard Some of the blocks are like one block So you have to really get precise in it But I did both of those and I felt like God had like touched me in the heart like I felt like I felt amazing when I did that.

Yeah,

and I just think this game is great.

I still love the little flower guy a lot.

I think he's fun

and I

the talking flower guy.

Yeah.

What are you doing up here?

Holy cow.

I can't believe it.

Yeah.

That guy?

When you get to the end of these levels it's like five of them and they all are like yay

that is really satisfying when you get congratulated by them i really love that and so i'm playing that but i'm also playing uh spider-man 2

and like sean was saying last week it's a little bit like a little more of the same right like it's as good it's like as good as those other ones kind of but the things that they've refined in this game are so great uh it looks a lot better like i mean it always looked really good.

It looks great on the PS5.

The traversal is just, it feels even faster and snappier.

The combat is still like, you have to kind of like that combat, that sort of like crunchy

combo sort of driven combat.

But flying around with these web wings, it's like...

It's like a completely different thing.

I love it so much.

Wow.

It's so fun and great.

And the story so far is really great.

I know that I've been in a Peter section for a while and I've been missing Miles because I just, I like, I just personally like Miles more as a character.

I think fucking everybody does.

He's just cooler and better.

Yeah.

His story's more interesting.

But so I like took a break from doing the Peter story and like did this like funny, weird

side mission with Miles where I had to hunt down these thieves who stole musical instruments.

And then the reward is that you get to walk through this like museum and read about whose instruments they were.

And I was like, this is kind of interesting.

And then you unlock a suit where he's like a jazz guy.

He has like a vest and fedora and stuff.

And I was like, what is this game?

This is so weird.

He's just like a, he's just wearing like nice clothes and a Spider-Man mask.

It's great.

But I'm loving it.

And I love.

I love New York City.

Are they real?

Greatest city on earth?

All five boroughs.

Manhattan, Brooklyn,

Queens, the Bronx, and of course, Staten Island.

We love all of them.

We love all of them equally.

Equally.

And I will not hear about this again.

Yes.

We don't prioritize a certain borough.

No.

We like them all the same.

No borough favoritism for the five boroughs.

Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, the Bronx, Staten Island.

All the same level as far as I'm concerned.

All

boroughs.

They're listed in that order does not denote preference.

Exactly.

It's just kind of where they fall in my mind.

Just where they are.

Let me ask you this.

Yes.

The,

you talked about these jazz musicians' instruments.

Are these real jazz musicians?

They are.

Oh, wow.

And like, here's Herbie Hancock's piano or something.

There's like stuff like that in there.

And there's like, I mean, I wish I was paying more attention because I would have actually learned stuff because there's like actual information.

Like it was, it was great.

So you're actually walking through this like museum and helping and helping the community.

Wow, Billy Higgins drum kick.

Yeah.

Okay.

Sounds like you played it.

And

I didn't.

I'm just curious who the jazz musicians are.

That's awesome.

It's so fun, and I love it.

And

I just like Spider-Man.

I just like his,

you know, his powers and his moveset and his villains.

They're all interesting and cool.

So many of them are just like

mad scientists.

Right.

That's the fun of it.

It's like he's this teenage kid or whatever.

And he's like, this scientist is mad at me.

I love it.

It's great.

Yeah.

One of the videos I sent, Matt, was when you get hired to protect a saxophone and it's Spider-Man pushing a guy against the wall and then pulling the wall to the ground and just breaking him.

Well, this is the thing that they go through such lengths to like show

that Spider-Man is doing all these non-lethal things.

Like you can kick somebody, you can web swing, kick somebody off of a building.

And then this like remote web sort of comes out and like...

webs him to the wall for safekeeping for the police or whatever.

But I'm like, I think I just threw a fucking manhole cover at that guy's neck.

He's dead.

That guy's dead.

And then you can also dodge bullets, and then the bullets can hit the other guy.

Right.

Like, well, you shot that man to death.

Yes, yeah.

And I'm guilty by association because I have spider sense and moved out of the way, allowing you to kill your friend.

Right.

I could have used my super strength to absorb the bullets in order to make sure this other, this petty criminal doesn't get murdered on the street.

Wait, wait, wait.

Is it canonical that Spider-Man can take a bullet?

I don't know.

I have no idea.

I'm just speculating.

Let's find out.

It's like such a Superman

strength.

Yeah.

It's like that he can take a bullet even in the eyeball.

But like, I've never thought of Spider-Man as being able to take a bullet.

I think he would still be hurt.

I think it was just like he would probably take it better than a normal person.

That's just my guess.

I'm just speculating.

But like, I feel like Wolverine can take a bullet.

Sure.

You know,

Iron Man in the suit can take a bullet.

Yeah, I would think.

Hulk can take a bullet.

I don't think of Spider-Man as being able to take, like, I feel like if you shot Peter Parker in the stomach, he'd just

drop.

I think it's more that the likelihood of him getting shot is like a smaller percentage than

somebody else because because he has the heightened sense of awareness, he'll more easily dodge a bullet before being able to even get shot to begin with.

Right.

And I think that using that power to dodge the bullets is evidence that he, in his heightened sense of awareness, is like, I would rather not take a bullet because it will kill me.

Yeah.

So there's a utilitarian

kind of philosophy being applied here where it's like, well, I can do more good living than this burglar behind me would if they like instead take these bullets that are headed towards me.

So Spider-Man's always doing the trolley problem in head constantly?

I think so.

I think that's what's happening there.

And it's all to save Cannonball Adderly's alto sax.

But you saying that also made a great point about why I actually like this game.

And I was saying this to some friends the other day.

This, and it sounds silly, but go with me for a second.

This game really simulates what it would be like to be Spider-Man because you'll be on your way with an intention to go do something.

And then you'll see that there is a crime happening.

And you're like, well, I can't let that go wow I'm Spider-Man I have to go do that yeah so like that it's such a good like because that's the push and pull of being spider-man and that's like what the main conflict in his life is is that I have to be spider-man and I don't get to be Peter Parker right so like I because I'm Spider-Man I have to go do this so every time that there's I see something else happening that's not the main thing I'm supposed to be doing I'm like well I have to go do that yeah that Spider-Man would go do that instead of like going to change out of my clothes to go to the carnival or whatever i have to go do can i bring up maybe like a awkward uh turn of phrase here sure

i think i think peter parker suffers from spider privilege because like

his big complaint is that he can't like go what go to a club like

My big complaint as a human being in the world is that I feel incapable of doing anything heroic.

Yeah.

Like if you, if I feel like if any of us got the abilities that Spider-Man got, we wouldn't spend time complaining that we had to save people's lives.

We would feel great all the time.

I mean,

I'd be pretty pissed off, actually.

I have a major inconvenience.

Can't go to, sorry, can't go to your birthday, sweetie.

I got to go.

lift this car off of someone.

Like, what?

Yeah.

No, I think it's bullshit.

I think it is a, I think it is a bullshit problem.

Okay, Heather.

Well, you go get bitten by a spider and then you go tell me how that goes for you.

Here, here's,

Matt, I like this observation because you're basically saying that the IP is using the conventions of an open world video game to accurately simulate what it's like to be that character.

Push and pull, yeah.

Like, right, because that's the whole thing of like playing kind of the open world video game.

We've talked about this a lot in the podcast, but it's like you've got your main thing to do.

Like, I've got to save this world-saving quest, and it kind of seems kind of dumb that I got to go like deliver a letter

from some random merchant.

Yes.

You know, like, like, that's supposed, that's a good use of my time.

But here, since you're dealing with people who are like in all these dangerous situations and you're supposed to act heroic, it seems to kind of be using that to its advantage.

That's, that's, uh, that's a really interesting take.

It gets you to the fun stuff, which is the being Spider-Man stuff.

Right.

I don't love the parts where you're like walking around normal, like when you're Peter Parker.

Like, that's like, it's interesting for the story.

I understand why they have to do it.

Yeah, but like, I want to be out there swinging.

I want to get out there and I want to swing.

Yeah.

Do you see the interview with the like head developer?

They asked why they toned down so much of the tech, like all of his like toys and gear from this game compared to the first game.

They said when they were writing it, like this new game, they were debating on how much they should put in.

And they were like, well, he is Spider-Man.

Like, I don't think he needs to be a god.

Right.

Yeah.

And they're also like, uh, people were complaining about Mary Jane's levels where she's like, she basically has like a taser gun and she can sneak up and like stealth take down people.

And people were complaining that she's OP.

And

the developers were like, who gives a shit?

It's fun.

Who fucking cares?

I love that.

It's great.

But that's, I'm.

That's my new favorite way to deal with any sort of feedback.

Who fucking cares?

So that's what I'm playing.

Thank you for letting me monologue about

Spider-Man.

I love it.

Loved it.

Loved it.

This is an absolutely true story.

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I'll give a quick Cyberpunk 2077 update, which is that, which I know Kevin has been playing as well.

I went for the rogue ending, which I'll say without, you know,

without any spoilers.

You just basically pick a there are a few different characters you can ally with that takes you into the end game.

Having done the Pan Am ending in a previous save, this is the direction I went with.

And I actually found it really satisfying and pretty distinct.

My main thing from finishing up vanilla Cyberpunk 2077 is replaying the main game, which I'd already played after

doing Phantom Liberty, has really hammered home just how much more refined the Phantom Liberty section of the game is.

Like, I just like, I'm not sure how you felt, Matt, but, and Kevin, maybe as well.

I don't know if you've been playing Phantom Liberty.

Not Phantom Liberty, but I'm excited to play it.

I think you'll really like it because it is just like they've really dialed in what works about the

structure of the quests.

And I think they just have a really great main story thread that they're following there that ends in a really satisfying way.

And that includes that there are some post-game, quote-unquote, post-game Phantom Liberty quests.

After you finish the main quest there, there's some more stuff that's happening as a consequence of whatever outcome you pick.

And that I found really satisfying.

I thought those were really cool quests as well.

But that said, I really enjoyed my time with 2.0.

Mario Wonder also been playing.

I kind of feel embarrassed that this might be my game of the year because it kind of feels like a basic pick, but it's just like, I like the new Mario game, but it is just so well executed.

It's so fun.

It's pure joy.

You know what it feels like?

I was looking at another game on my shelf, which we got for this podcast, which is a Balin Wonder World.

And that game,

I think we all, like as we were playing it, we were all just like disoriented and confused.

It made us think we hated video games.

Yeah, it made us feel like it put us into a hallucinatory state.

But this, it's that same sort of sensation here because everything that's happening is so dazzling and like overwhelming and like, you know,

just like the entire layout of a stage transforming on the fly, and you having the completely new objectives, having to figure out what that's going,

it puts you into kind of a fugue state, but it's like purely joyous.

And

I'm just really impressed by this design.

I've heard this reference that I've heard this talked about, but there are some longtime Mario veterans on the team,

which kind of ties into where we're going with our topic here.

But it was produced by Takashi Tezuka and designed by Shigafumi Hino.

And they both are in their 60s and

both of them worked on Super Mario World for the Super Nintendo and they co-created Yoshi.

The two

fathers of Yoshi are part of the Mario Wonder team.

Also, if you look through the credits, it's just insane.

Like Tezuka co-directed the original Legend of Zelda, Super Mario Bros.

3, Yoshi's Island.

He produced Super Mario Galaxy and Mario Maker.

Hino co-directed Yoshi's Island.

He co-directed Pikmin 1 through 3.

It's just

working on all these huge, just like totemic Nintendo first party games.

And, you know, I think the merging of that and then, you know, whatever new blood they got in there, it's just, it's created this amazing game that feels timeless, but also contemporary.

I'm really, really enjoying it.

And the music's also fantastic.

Music's great.

Yeah, the music is great.

The level design is great.

Guys, I really don't like playing as that elephant.

I would go so far as to say i hate it if we were doing bar i will look i'll say this i was excited for the elephant i do think the elephantized version of the characters are like cool looking um and fun

i'm a little underwhelmed by the elephant as well i wouldn't say that the elephant fills me with wonder

It fills me with a mild sense of annoyance or disgust.

I love the rest of the game so far, though.

Yeah,

I'm having a blast with it.

If we were going and which we did as part of our three-part,

we did like a three-part series

on our old paywall where we did the first ditcher premium.

When that existed, that was the

we ranked every Mario power up.

And

I think Elephant might be like a C tier for me.

I don't, I'm not loving it.

I don't, I don't like the animation on its trunk.

I don't like it.

I don't like how it gets a bubble in its trunk when it goes in the water.

I don't like it.

I don't like it.

I don't like the elephant.

I don't want it.

I would have to agree that

I like it and

I like its use cases.

It's like a B for me, probably.

If I had to rank it.

I'm much more

enjoying Bubble Mario.

Bubble Mario's a hit.

I love the bubble.

Yeah, yeah love bubble mario he blows a bubble kevin

i'm in

um i'll also mention it just because i i know we're transitioning into to mario wonder here but i i'll also mention that i've been playing more slay the spire which was i look there's an ios version on apple arcade which i i forgotten i was still paying for um and uh it is a really good version of it uh yeah i it's one of those things like i can't believe i'm sending money for the shit i haven't been using but i but i installed it just for curiosity's sake because i was playing it on PC and it is really good.

I just, I can't have this game on my phone.

It's like, cause here's part of the thing.

It's, it's a, it's a roguelike deck builder, but the thing I'd forgotten about this having been a boyfriend for this game for a while is just how long the runs are.

Like the, like the last run I finished on my phone was two hours and 35 minutes in playtime.

Like I can't be looking at my phone this long.

No, that's not

playing this card game.

So you can only look at your phone for that long if you're just like looking at your phone.

Exactly, yes.

That's okay.

But

playing a dedicated game, it feels

like a waste.

All right, let's transition to our topic for today.

Tears of the Kingdom, T-I-E-R-S, and we're talking about 2D Mario games.

So these are mainline Marios only, and these are only the 2D games.

We're going to go all the way back to, well, Matt, I guess we'll find out exactly where we're starting here.

And I think that I will just say, and it should hopefully go without saying, but our Super Mario Brothers wonder ranking is provisional because none of us have finished the game as of this record.

That's right.

So, I have it up here, and it looks like this tier list in particular has all has all the big boys, has all the classics that you would expect.

Got it.

So, we're skipping, it looks like the original Mario Bros.

We can add it here, but it's kind of its own thing.

I feel like the classic Mario platformer is it.

I mean, like, if I was gonna, I would honestly probably give Mario Brothers a C or D tier.

It's, it's not the most, it's a fine single-screen arcade game, but it's not the most exciting thing, right?

So we'll start with Super Mario Bros.

1.

That's first up.

Guys,

what are we doing?

Looking at this list,

are we really going to, like, none of these games is going to be a D.

I would put this first one in D.

What?

I wouldn't put it as high as

A or S, I think.

I think, obviously, you need this.

This is like, it sets the template.

It's perfectly playable today.

Super Mario Bros.

There's no way I'm going back to the first one if I could play one of the later ones.

I think this might just be

the fact that you're 10 years younger than me, Matt, because I would do that.

Get your hands off my neck.

I played this game,

you know, on an NES when I was a kid, endlessly replayable, finished it as a kid, have gone back and finished it as an adult.

I think it's just like, I think the physics and and the control are amazingly tight for a game of this era.

I think that it offered so much of the Mario iconography that still stands with the game, including the Koji Kondo theme

and themes, multiple songs that are still being reused to this day.

And I don't know, I just think it's so fun.

To me, this is an A or S tier.

I would maybe say A tier just to give us room to grow, but

I think it's so great.

I would say A tier, and that's because I know what the S tier requires.

Yes.

Like I know which of these games is an S tier.

So I think it is an A tier.

But that being said,

it is such an

like.

It's not just a great game.

It is a great tutorial system

masked as a game.

That is very true.

Because it was also creating the language by which you were learning to play a Mario game while playing it.

Like

that you see a guy walking towards you and you have two buttons you can press and one of them doesn't seem to do anything and you press the other button and you jump.

Like it's, it's, it, it's, it's the staging design is teaching everything you need to know about how to beat the stage as you play it without any pop-up or like, you know, fucking character being like, you know, you know, you could jump on the head of a monster and kill it.

Look out, Mario.

Like none of that stuff is happening.

It's invisible.

It's so fucking good.

It's an A-tier game for sure.

Yeah, you're talking about, you know, World One, that first stage, which is just maybe, yeah, the best tutorial mission ever in terms of introducing everything and, you know, enemies, power-ups,

jumping over pits.

It's just all presented there, but it's presented in such an elegant, invisible way to the user.

And this was also, you know, this was before the era of tutorial modes and tooltips and shit.

But this was the era when there was an expectation that the gamer would read the manual.

And you don't have to read the manual to play Super Mario Bros.

But that's just what, to me, one aspect of it.

I also just think all the varied level design,

the progression is really satisfying.

And just the creativity and figuring out that this, like effectively inventing the modern side-scroller, the platform game, a genre which persists to today.

Let's put it in A.

Let's put it in A.

Okay, great.

That brings us to Super Mario Bros.

2, Japan, aka The Lost Levels when it was released over here.

Now, I have a lot less time I've spent with this game than I have with Super Mario Bros., but I did play this.

I did play through this and have revisited a few times as part of the Super Nintendo collection.

You know, I'm actually realizing, I've said before,

we had a family on our block and they had a Japanese Famicom, and I actually played the original Super Mario Bros.

2 on that.

So I did play that back in the day.

But

I would argue for this to be a little lower.

It's not the difficulty is the issue.

I think the difficulty is fun.

It's more that this one doesn't really do a ton to innovate.

It's kind of just like

more Super Mario Bros.

Again, a great game.

Had some things like the Poison Mushroom.

But overall, I feel like this one just does not advance the franchise the way some other games are.

I'd maybe argue for this for C tier.

People are going to get mad, maybe.

I don't know.

I'd put it in C tier because

it does feel like more of Mario Bros.

Yeah.

And you know what I mean?

Like it's not,

it's more of Super Mario Bros.

as opposed to the way that we experience modern 2D Super Mario Bros.

games is what is the new thing?

You know what I mean?

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I

agree.

I haven't spent spent as much time with this one, but I think it can get comfy in the C tier there.

And,

you know, I think maybe the next one

could even go a little lower.

Super Mario Bros.

2 in Japan for the Famicom sold 2,650,000 copies.

Isn't that insane?

This kind of like a game that's called The Lost Levels Overseas, still just like an enormous hit.

Yeah, that's great.

All right, let's let's look at Super Mario Bros.

2.

A game I liked more when we revisited for the podcast, aka Super Mario USA.

This is the reskin dokie dokey panic that has introduces elements like, you know, playable peach and toad, and also every

other characters, including Luigi, having their own specific abilities.

Also, things like, you know, shy guys, babombs are introduced in this game.

It's a weird game.

It's very much its own thing.

I do have a lot of affection for it.

It has one of the best character selection themes of all time.

Oh my God, it's so good.

And it also has one of the best overworld themes of all time.

I don't think it goes higher than a C tier, though, because

it's like,

it's not.

I don't want to be a purist, but it's not really a Mario game, is it?

No, I think

it's interesting that they've never tried really like a Super Mario Bros.

2-2 or like a Super Mario Bros.

USA 2.

You know, like they've just like advanced the same playstyle.

Like they've just sort of,

you know,

they figured out how to fit some elements that are in this game into the franchise at large, but they've kind of dispensed with how this game plays.

But I do think it's...

it's it's interesting and fun i think like pulling up the vegetables and tossing them is just like i don't know that like pulling up, yanking shit out of the ground is a kind of fun mechanic.

You like to yank.

I love to yank.

I love throwing a potion and ducking inside the door.

I mean, it's also like so fucking weird and dreamy, which obviously makes sense with the ending.

But maybe the solution here, yeah, Heather, to keep people from getting mad at us, is we just put it at C tier with lost levels.

Wow.

The two Mario 2s

at the C tier.

I mean, I prefer it to

USA to 2 Japan, but also that's the game game I grew up with.

So, of course, I'm going to feel that way.

I don't remember liking it when we played it on the show.

I think

I didn't care for it, but that was also my first experience with it.

Yeah.

So, I was just, it was new to me, and

I didn't love it.

Uh, Super Mario Bros.

3.

This is maybe the easiest S tier of this whole exercise, right?

Yeah, just jamming it up there.

I was worried that you guys were going to fight for it to not be S tier.

Super Mario Bros.

3 is a perfect game, it's perfect.

It's you literally can't improve on Super Mario Bros.

3

with the technology of the time or maybe even ever.

Like it is fuck.

It's so fucking perfect and it's also one of the most beautiful boxes ever designed.

Like it is perfect happiness.

Yes.

It's beautiful it's beautiful colors.

The art has never aged.

Super Mario Bros.

3 is a perfect game.

It has one of my favorite levels in any game ever, Kuribo's Shoe, where you hop in the big oversized shoe, and it's the only level this mechanic is used at all.

And you can use it to stomp on enemies and

walk over piranha plants.

It gives you all these different abilities that are only used in this one circumstance.

And then it just moves away from it.

And I think like a lot of 2D game design or a lot of platform game design has borrowed from this, the idea of like, hey, let's introduce one distinct mechanic.

A game like Inside is is like that here's a here's a new distinct mechanic we're gonna explore it to its full and then dispense with it and then it's gone and wonder is doing the same thing um but that that aside like the the the diversity of of each individual world like how just distinct they feel and uh all the different power-ups that that exist like mario flying for the first time and that happening via consuming a leaf and turning into a raccoon uh and wagging your tail to to go aerial like all that shit's just so fucking weird uh the music's great

Yeah, this game is, I prefer Super Mario World, which we'll get to, but this is absolutely an S-tier game.

Super Mario 3, easy S-tier.

Unbelievable.

Tanuki Mario.

We love Tanuki Mario.

Damn it, Donald.

You belong in prison for that take.

I think the DOJ is going to indict you a second time.

I did everything right, and they indicted me.

For those of you joining us for the first time as we join the head gum network,

um, this is a comic.

The boys are doing an impression of a YouTube compilation of AI voices where the presidents do um tier rankings on video games.

Yes, all right, let's just put uh Super Mario Brothers 3 in S tier and move on because I've got to put Malia to bed.

Here's the thing.

Go on.

I don't even know who that is.

Here's the thing.

Me and the boys used to get down at the watering hole and play Super Mario Bros.

3.

It's an easy S tier.

Who is that?

You can think of being Joe Biden.

Super Mario Bros.

Land.

Speaking of presidents, you ever see that photo of Hillary Clinton playing Game Boy on a plane?

Yeah.

Yeah, on Air Force One.

Yeah, Air Force One.

It's crazy.

I had a

poster of that in my room.

Super Mario Brothers land is up i think super wario brothers land is great i think it's i think it's really cool uh i didn't have a game boy at the time but i did play it uh on a friend's uh friend's uh game boy and i've also played it in emulation uh i'm i'm curious if either of you played this back in the day but i think this is a this is a really fun

i i guess my i guess i have a little bit less

um

Boy, it's interesting to look at this list because I'm wondering if Super Mario Brothers Land 3 is even on here,

which is where we introduce Wario.

But

I just, I have

in my memory, a little bit less specific grasp of how to rank the Mario Lands versus each other because they all feel like kind of the same to me.

But I would maybe put this as a B tier.

I'm not sure what you think.

Mario Land 2 is weird.

I mean,

sorry, Super Mario Land is weird.

Yeah, it has like the bouncy, the bouncy fireballs instead of like the

like they bounce like full screen or something.

It's like a a ball you throw and instead of a yeah like a typical fireball yeah whereas super mario land 2 is more like super mario brothers or super mario 3 converted to a game boy like super mario land is is a weird game it's like got weird physics and stuff too and like weird animation i i would put it at a b tier because it's weird okay uh and i would save if i'm ranking these game boy games i would save super mario Land 2 for an A tier, but it might also be a B tier.

Hmm.

Don't know.

I don't know.

What do you think, Matt?

I was going to say, I haven't spent as much time with the Land series, if I'm being honest.

I didn't have,

my first Game Boy was a Game Boy Color, but I didn't have my first,

my very first Mario game was

Super Mario.

Super Mario World for the Game Boy Advance.

That was like my very first Mario.

That's wild.

I know.

And I had maybe played a little bit, like, you know, at like my uncle's house or whatever, but like my first memory of like playing a complete Mario game from start to finish was Super Mario World.

Let's leave it in B tier for now.

I am just reading about it, and this is a fascinating detail.

Super Mario Land outsold Super Mario Bros.

3.

Wow.

Because you just, just the Game Boy is just that, like, you know, ubiquitous.

Exactly, yeah.

But 18 million copies.

They're playing it on Air Force One.

Wow, who knows what else was going on?

Wow.

I like to play that on the different plane,

Monica.

Get the batteries.

Super Mario.

What's next?

Oh, Super Mario World is next.

Christ

sucks.

Sucks.

Super Mario World, to me, this is a,

I prefer it to, I prefer it to land, or I'm sorry, to three.

I prefer it to three

because I just think like it's, I love Yoshi.

I love the aesthetic of World.

I think the upgrade to 16-bit just like...

It gives it a level of graphical and audio polish that you just weren't able to achieve on the earlier hardware.

And I think the cape feels a little bit better to me than the raccoon tail in terms of power-ups.

But I just think it's such a cool design.

And I think it's just a it's it's got an amazing end game.

I think the way that you can navigate the map, the the totally connected world map, not divided into distinct

You know, distinct worlds is is so cool.

And I don't know, I just I absolutely adore this game.

It's probably the Mario game I've played the most.

I think this is an S tier.

Yeah, this is an easy S to me.

Like, I remember playing this, like I said, on the Game Boy Advance and just being blown away.

Like, honestly, by the scope of it, like, the fact that there are secret levels, I was like, this is unbelievable.

I can't believe I found something that was supposed to be hidden.

And I know that it's in the other Mario

too.

But, like, like, to me, that was my first exposure to it.

I was like, this is, I wasn't even supposed to find this.

This is a little secret just for me.

Oh, yeah, it's great.

That feeling of discovery is incredible.

It feels really great.

That's that to me, unless Heather says otherwise, is an easy S tier.

Well, I don't want to turn this into a Heather gets her way.

I just, I just want to say

I don't like Super Mario World as much as Super Mario Bros.

3.

That's fair.

That's a reasonable opinion.

And I don't like Super Mario World as much as I like Sonic and Sonic 2.

Wow.

And

I can understand that.

At the time,

you know, as a Genesis kid, like

playing Sonic and seeing Super Mario World, I kind of had this feeling of like,

it felt like going backwards

from like a place that I had already been beyond.

And Sonic felt like something beyond Mario.

Like, right.

So

I guess I don't have the same nostalgia associated with it, But, you know, by the time we get to the N64, like Super Mario, and I know that we're not ranking that game.

So I'm not saying that, like, oh, I was beyond Mario at that point in my life.

It just felt so slow and

like

thick compared to the games that I was playing at the time that I was a little disappointed in Super Mario World.

I recognize it as a classic and as an S-tier game, but I think it's worth voicing that feeling.

I will say that, you know, like this is this is the Genesis does

what Nintendo don't era, and they would run commercials with the side-by-side of Super Mario World and Sonic the Hedgehog, and it would feel positively plotting versus, you know, just the kinetic momentum that you felt from

Sonic.

And

so

I can totally get that.

I think it's just such a cool design.

Let's leave it at S tier because I think it's like

I don't disagree with it being an S tier game.

Yeah.

All right, let's move on to Super Mario Land 2.

This is six golden coins.

Six golden coins.

Six golden coins.

Introduces Wario as the antagonist.

A huge game just for that reason.

He probably wanted those coins, didn't he?

He 100% did.

He's very greedy.

I think this

is a solid B plus

or A game.

I could argue, yeah, I mean, just from the Wario of it all, I'm happy to put it in A

only so that I don't have to make a B plus tier.

Yeah, let's not make a new tier.

We can figure this out.

This is tricky because when I think of like a,

I don't know, actually are we gonna get oh we might get there so I'll just save the discussion um but like there there there are Mario games that I think of as like oh this is maybe like a there there is at least one Mario game where I was like this is maybe a D tier Mario but I'm kind of wondering if we should start doing some downward nudging just to

create create some more space in the middle here because I'm like is

I mean, to Heather's point, are we going to say, if we're going to say Super Mario Land 2

is an improvement over Super Mario Land, should it just be at a tier above it?

Or do we just cram them both in B tier and just sort of accept that one is like a little bit better than the other or is regarded as better than the other?

Like I said, remember that I think Super Mario Land 2 is the best of the Game Boy Super Marios.

It is not an S tier game, but it's an A tier game.

So you want to put it up in A tier?

Yeah, it gave you the full Mario experience on

Game Boy.

That was crazy.

Yeah.

I could put it in front of Super Mario Land in the B tier.

That doesn't help anything.

Put it in A tier.

Let's put it in A.

Great.

All right.

All right.

We got another Super Mario game for the Super Nintendo.

We're talking Super Mario World 2, Yoshi's Island, though people usually forget the first part of that.

I love this game.

This game's incredible.

So good.

The aesthetic is gorgeous.

If this was my own list, I might jam this up in S tier just because I think it's just such a pristine game.

It is aesthetically, it has not aged a fucking inch.

It is so fucking gorgeous to look at.

It has got such good music.

The only

compelling argument you could make that this game isn't an S tier game is the sound of Baby Mario crying,

which which is among the most grating sounds ever created in a video game, but as a gameplay element, it encourages you to catch him so that you can stop hearing that sound.

It's also like

it's not like when Donkey Kong Country and stuff came out, you would be like, oh, well, this is like, these are all pre-rendered.

These aren't actually being made on the

on the uh Super Nintendo, right?

But when you saw Yoshi's Island, you were like, how are they fucking doing this?

Because it was really being made by the console.

Yeah, it was,

you know, it's

these were, these were, I mean, they're both were sprites, but these weren't like these pre-rendered, you know, 3D models.

So yeah, it's a completely different look to it.

I think that games really, I mean, here's the thing.

And I was trying, I was searching for this quote, and I haven't been able to find it.

And it's maybe apocryphal, but I remember reading years ago that they'd had a different sound effect for crying baby Mario.

And the issue was in playtesting, the user would not go retrieve baby Mario.

So they're like, we have to make this, and this is the thing you were talking about, Heather, but like, we have to make this more like an actual baby's cry to incentivize the user to go get it.

And I don't know if that's true or not, but that was always my defense of that choice.

I don't know.

What do you think, Matt?

If I had to make a list of maybe my top 10 favorite video games, I think Yoshi's Island is somewhere in the top 10.

If I, if the criteria, that's wild.

I love this.

If the criteria is I have to pick games from like every

system or whatever.

Yeah.

Because I think I spent so much time.

I've like replayed Yoshi's Island so much when I had it.

I mean, I had all these games on like the Game Boy Advance.

So, like, it's a little bit different, maybe, but like, I

spent so much time with Yoshi's Island.

I, I think I completed it on all three saves that you're allowed.

Yeah.

And I, uh, like, I just, I love it.

I think it's such a perfect game.

Uh, like you guys said, aesthetically, top to bottom, it, it looks great today.

It plays great today.

It rules.

I'm,

I would argue to put it in the S tier.

Let's do it.

Let's do it.

It's maybe, maybe it's boring, maybe it's safe,

but I think I think it's fun.

All right.

What's up next?

Is it Super Mario Bros.

Land 3?

Deluxe.

It looks like Deluxe.

Oh, Deluxe.

Oh, Super Mario Brothers Deluxe for the Game Boy Color.

Do we want to rate this one separately?

What is it?

Because this is a collection, right?

This is

effectively a remaster of the original Super Mario Bros.

Nah, skip it.

Skip it.

But then the next one that it jumps to, which might not be correct.

Right.

Isn't that what it is?

Super Mario Brothers Deluxe?

Yeah.

I think it's just, it's Super Mario for the Game Boy Color.

Bank.

Are you looking it up?

Yeah, it is.

It's Super Mario Brothers and the Lost Levels is included.

So it's like a compilation of those two.

Yeah, I don't think we need to rate it separately.

Nope.

Okay, so that brings us to...

And I guess we're, I guess Wario Land, Super Mario Bros.

3, Super Mario Land 3 rather, is not included here because it's maybe a Wario game.

And neither is the Virtual Boy Wario Land,

which is

easy S tier.

Wario is just like me.

I love Wario.

We understand each other.

I am Wario.

All right, let's move on.

Wow, that brings us to new Super Mario Bros.

That's next.

Can that be correct?

Because, I mean, I guess then they spent time in the 3D games more than they did the 2D games.

Yeah, I guess there's not a 2D Mario 4.

But this is what's strange about this particular tier list is that we don't have the Super Mario Bros.

2 remake for the Game Boy Advance or the

or the Super Mario All-Stars is also not on here.

And then the other one that's not on here is

the one you were talking about, the Super Mario World.

And actually, they did a Yoshi's Island port for the Game Boy Advance.

I guess we could just

ignore all that.

All right, let's.

This is fine.

We'll go to New Super Mario Bros.

Wow.

So we're going all the way to the Wii because for the entire that was all basically what they're making for Game Boy Advance.

Is it New Super Mario Brothers DS?

This first one was oh, that's right.

That's right.

I was thinking of New Super Mario Brothers Wii.

Yes, there's New Super Mario Brothers for DS, and then New Super Mario Brothers 2 is also on the DS.

New Super Mario Brothers,

you know, it revitalized the 2D

side of the franchise a little bit.

I don't know.

I don't love any of the new games.

I don't want to sound like a funny

game.

You hated it.

I hated it.

I hated new Super Mario Bros.

I felt it felt

like I,

if I'm going to play a Mario game, it's for like some specific experience of gameplay physics that is like constantly satisfying.

And like, I think I can do this and therefore this will happen.

And I think think Wonder really nails that sense of physics.

New Super Mario Bros.

felt loose and weird and sloppy to me.

Yeah, I mean,

I don't hate this game.

I feel better about it than its sequel, which we'll talk about.

I would maybe put this in the C tier.

Yep.

Let's do it.

With Mario 2 and Lost Levels, although I like Mario 2 and Lost Levels both more than this.

Super Mario Bros.

Wii, I mean, is that in the same territory or does that go up to B tier?

I don't know.

I also didn't love this game.

I don't even think I played this game.

I definitely played this, and I definitely was excited to have a new 2D Mario on console.

I played this and liked it fine, but

he was not big in our house, really.

I don't know.

I didn't love it.

I hated new Super Mario Bros.

so much that when they were like, it's new Super Mario Bros.

for the Wii, I think I was just like, this is a skip.

And I've played

every other one of the Mario games on this list, even new Super Mario Bros.

2, because at some point I was like, okay, I'll give it another shot.

But like, I didn't, I don't think I played new Super Mario Bros.

Wii.

I think I skipped it.

I can't believe that.

I definitely played this and had this.

And I would say maybe just it in C tier next to new SMB.

That's in C.

I will make a case for at least new Super Mario Bros.

2 being in the B tier, because I believe this one was on the 3DS,

and it was in.

Oh, maybe that's where I got it.

It was in 3D, and as you can see from the cover art, the whole thing is getting coins.

You get so many coins the whole time.

And you're just like, it's like all you're doing, kind of.

It's the classic Mario stuff, but there's coins everywhere.

Um, I loved the premise of this game.

This is the one I was going to argue for D tier, because actually, this is a step backwards for Mario Brothers, but I'm not going to fight for it.

I'm just going to say that D tier is looking pretty empty, and this to me is kind of the low point of the series.

I you're being extremely sus right now.

The only thing that's sus is uh, you're the bank accounts for your Trump Foundation.

i i definitely played new super mario brothers too if it is indeed for the 3ds that's why i got it was because i was like wow i made a fucking mario game on my 3ds um it

the coins sound

is so good that it felt like it's such a weird thing to say that it felt like you were making money while you were playing this game yeah it's like all

the whole game is a bonus stage basically Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I don't remember it being a great game.

I just remember it kind of being funny that it would be like, coins don't really matter in, like, it's not like when you collect rings in Sonic, it's to keep you alive.

Like, in Mario, the coins only, like, they only give you like a

life.

And I, this game wasn't hard enough to require you to get like 300 lives.

You can end like a section of the game and have like 40 lives.

Well, the goal is to collect 1 million coins, which I think is a great premise.

I think that's really fun.

The idea of just like, hey, let's see how many fucking coins you can get.

1 million coins.

That's good.

Kevin literally slapped his knee at that.

I'm playing to Kevin.

I put these impressions on S tier.

I would say I'm looking at the tier list right now.

I said B tier.

You said D tier.

That evens out to C tier.

C tier is getting crowded.

I'm nervous about how this looks.

Yeah.

Because I don't think in good conscience, I could say so many of these Mario games are mid.

Here's what I'm going to say.

I think we nudge Super Mario Bros.

up to S tier.

It's just like it's one of the most important games ever made.

Okay.

And I think it's still very playable today.

I think we I think we

moved because we've actually made a big C on the chart.

The whole list is a C C tier.

Guys, I think this is right.

I think what we have is right.

I think you're about to fight for Hillary Mario is mid.

You're fighting against the startling realization that some Mario games are so perfect that they make you think that the rest of the series is also perfect.

Yeah.

But I do think that the rest of this, that most of the Mario games are

kind of mid.

And

I think we've got a couple more S-tier games in front of us, but like, this feels right to me.

I was going to make the, the, that's a, that's a convincing case.

I was going to make the argument for

we just make C tier the new Super Mario Bros.

tier and we just nudge up lost levels and Super Mario Bros.

2, because I think those are better.

Do you like new Super Mario Brothers in the same level as those?

I like Super Mario Bros.

2, at least.

Oh, I think I like lost levels better than new Super Mario Brothers.

That's what I was going to say.

We nudge those up.

We put those up to B tier.

But I don't think Mario 2 USA is better than new Super Mario Bros.

I think those three games are real miss.

Now that's what I'm talking about.

All right,

let's just make that adjustment then.

And then let's put New Super Mario Brothers 2 into the same tier.

And you know what?

It's fucking New Super Mario Brothers U.

Well, I had the same reaction this game.

This game's like, fucking whatever.

This was the like post.

All right, this is like the treasure planet era of Disney animation.

Because then they re-released this as a Switch port.

And

it's kind of, I agree.

Like, I never even finished it because I was like, well, this is just kind of nothing.

I did finish it.

It's fine.

It's just, it just is a little uninspired.

And I think if it didn't have the Mario IP, it would just be kind of ignored.

Damn.

You know, or it just wouldn't be notable.

You didn't know anything like that?

I don't know.

I mean, like, whatever.

I also didn't love

the new power-ups in Mario Bros.

U.

The next one here on.

Heather, you were saying something.

I don't remember what I was saying.

Um, the next one here on the list, I think, is controversial because I don't think it belongs here.

Absolutely not.

Because, like, also with this list is insane.

Yeah, this, this, this is with the one you're pointing at is Super Mario 3D World.

If we're going to rank that, we should also rank 3D land.

But those are 3D games.

We're doing a 2D tier list.

Yeah, so forget about it.

But here's the thing: Super Mario 3D World is S tier.

It is.

Yeah, that game's incredible.

I love that.

I love 3D Land too.

I think they're both great.

But it's not 3D in its isometric.

Like, it's not really 3d

like you would you would put sonic

what is it sonic spinball or whatever the fuck they're like if you were ranking all the sonic 2d games you would put that awful sonic game in your list and you would rank it d tier so i think you put super mario 3d world

which is

it you can't

you cannot jump in 3d in you you i mean you can

i think oh i think it's i understand what you're saying heather and i i let me pick up let me pick up this thread and argue for its placement in in the tier list

this while this is a 3d game it is

spiritually and functionally it plays like the 2d games where yes you have a somewhat 3d plane but the objectives and the uh the way you go about the world is more inspired by the 2d games than they are the 3D games.

If we're going to do that, then we also have to include Super Mario 3D Land.

I'll download

a JPEG right now

and make it so.

I do think it's going to be a little confusing that our 2D tier list has two 3D games with 3D in their title.

All right.

If we're going to argue for this, then I also think we need to argue that the only true 3D game that exists in Mario is like Mario 3D Land is the only one that's actually in 3D.

Those are the only ones that are in 3D.

So we should, are we going to throw Galaxy in here?

What are we doing?

I mean, come on.

That's a 3D Mario game.

No, no, I'm saying that Super Mario 64 is still a two-dimensional game.

You're playing it on a two-dimensional surface.

These are the only three-dimensional games in the entirety of Super Mario.

If we want to do all the Marios, it's whatever.

It's like what, well, what What do we have left?

We've got to throw in, we'd have to throw in 64,

Sunshine, Galaxy, Galaxy 2.

I don't think anyone has time for that.

No, I don't have time.

So let's forget about it.

If we insist, I oppose this, but I'll go with the majority.

If we insist on including 3D Land and 3D World, I would put 3D World in S tier and 3D Land in A tier.

I love that.

I do too.

I'm doing it.

Okay, great.

Don't

add it.

3D World.

A tier.

3D Land.

Perfect.

it is a bigger C, actually.

We've actually done Heather's good observation, Kevin.

Yeah, we've done Heather's

her wish.

Well, next game.

Now I think it's going to turn into like a weird short F because I don't think anyone can argue for Super Mario Run being above D tier.

No,

this is a mobile game that's just

so boring.

I downloaded it, and I think I had it on my phone for 10 minutes, and this was like, nah, I'm good on this.

My main memory of Super Mario Run is handing the phone to my nephew and him immediately somehow spending $10.

I thought it was going to be more damning than that.

I thought it was going to be him being like, I don't want this.

Mark, that's funny.

That's so crazy.

All right.

The last one is,

and that, does that bring us to Super Mario Wonder?

Is there nothing we've missed?

That brings us to Super Mario Wonder.

Ones that aren't included in this list that we want to talk about.

A Mario Maker to me is like an A-tier game.

That's really great.

I had some fun with,

you know,

Mario All-Stars, I'm not sure if we would, I mean, Mario All-Stars is an S-tier just for the games that it includes.

Yeah.

Mario Maker 2, I'm not sure how we rank that.

But I like, maybe those, maybe the Mario Makers are kind of their own thing and we kind of think of them like the compilation game.

Yeah, because I think, I mean, while they do have prefab uh levels and their their own like designed ones i think the thing that makes those games fun and interesting is that the the user created uh levels right yeah which is also yeah awesome it's great but i think they're kind of their own thing for these purposes i agree uh and then that that brings us to mario wonder i'm i'm going to provisionally put this in a tier i think this one probably ends up at s tier if i'm enjoying this as much as i think i do through the end game yeah um but i'll just put it in a tier for now i i'm not sure what anyone else thinks.

I want to point out that Nick Weiger is like, this might be my game of the year.

It's an A tier game in a year where like fucking Baldur's Gate has come out.

Yeah.

In a year where like Tears of the Kingdom came out.

I'm not even a huge Tears of the Kingdom fan.

Like there's so many incredible games that came out this year that for you to be like, this might be my game of the year, but it's only an A tier game is pretty wild.

Right.

I'm just, I'm just giving room in case as we continue because, you know,

I'm like in the mid-game, but maybe once I get to the late game, I'll kind of be exhausted by it or something.

I don't know.

We could also just not include it if none of us feel comfortable giving it a greater game.

I'm happy to put it in A tier.

I would put it in B tier because of the elephant, but I'm not going to do that.

Well, yeah, we can't just go off of that.

Can we add an E tier?

Nick.

For elephant?

Yeah.

For elephant?

Yeah.

All the way at the bottom.

I'm just saying we can add an E tier for elephant.

Can you add a W A A one for Wario?

I think this is a comfy spot in the A tier with room to grow, of course.

I think that the time spent in it so far,

I have been really enjoying it.

Time will tell if it reaches the heights of

the S tier, but I think it's trending toward that trajectory.

I feel pretty good about this list.

Any adjustments anyone wants to make?

I'd like to put Super Mario Brothers 2, aka Super Mario USA in the D tier.

I disagree with that.

I would argue that for a new Super Mario Bros.

2, but I think we're both...

We've reached an impasse.

We're an impasse there, and I think the thing to do is to leave them both in C tier.

Yeah.

I think

this tier list looks good to me because it feels...

I like what it revealed to us, which is what I've always kind of secretly felt about Mario is that there's, again, there's these like four or five games of Mario that are

so perfect as they're like Smithsonian level works of art yes and it's like you are looking at the the you know the entirety of every painting in a museum and you're like well these these four masterpieces are in here so everything else in the Louvre is good but the truth is that a lot of the paintings in the Louvre are fine and I know that's an insane thing to say because I could never paint any of these paintings.

She's ugly.

She's mid.

I could never make a video game as good as any of the C tier Marios.

I couldn't even make a Mario run.

Like, I couldn't make a D tier Mario game.

But I think this list is right because I don't know that a lot of the Marios are perfect.

Yeah, but the ones that

are good are so good.

Like you were saying.

Yes, they're incredible.

And I think this reflects that

they are of varying varying quality.

And I think, honestly, you know, hey, to some degree, all worth playing.

All right, let me let's recap what our what our tier list is.

Uh, D tier at the bottom, we got Super Mario Run, C tier, Super Mario Brothers 2, new Super Mario Brothers, new Super Mario Brothers Wii, new Super Mario Brothers 2, and new Super Mario Bros.

U.

In the B tier, we've got Super Mario Land, the original, as well as Super Mario Bros.

2, Japan, aka the lost levels.

In the A tier, Super Mario Land 2, six golden coins, Super Mario 3D land in our 2D list, and Super Mario Bros.

Wonder.

We've also got in the S tier, Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros.

3, Super Mario World, Super Mario Bros.

2, Yoshi's Island, and Super Mario 3D World.

I feel pretty good about this.

I feel great about this.

We did a great list.

We did it.

This is actually now,

this is just true.

Like, this is now what the ranking is, and everybody has to be like, this is what it is, actually.

You guys were at each other's throats, but in the end, we put together a pretty good list.

You know, what would be funny is to do a list that was all of the mainline Mario games, including the 3D ones,

and all of the mainline Sonic games, including the 3D ones, all as a single list.

That's fascinating.

Well, we can just graph that onto this list if we ever continue.

If you want to save this one, Matt, we can pick it up from there.

I'll save this.

Yeah.

What is your favorite cover art of all these games because i feel like they're all pretty

mario 3 yeah it's just so iconic i think it is mario 3 perfect it's so perfect 3 is amazing i do love yoshi's side eye and super mario i was about to say so much i like how cheeky he looks

you know what i i'm i'm realizing i don't have like a specific memory of is the super mario brothers japanese box art the original Oh, yeah.

There's like that Nintendo sticker on it, but like it's so small that it looks like a burger on the screen to me.

But maybe it's just because I would like to eat a burger.

Burger sounds pretty cool.

Oh, yeah.

This one is fucking incredible.

Look at that shit.

Oh, yeah.

That's really cool.

That one is awesome.

That's so cute.

It's just such a detailed piece of art.

Well, since we got to the end of our tier list, how about a segment?

Okay.

I love it.

I don't know what to call this segment because I think this is sort of a one and done segment here.

So I'm just going to tell you,

I'm going to read this little prompt prompt that I wrote.

It is not uncommon for video games to change development studios.

So, I'm going to name some video games, and you have to tell me the studios that have worked on them.

What should we call this?

Arrested Development?

Um, oh, that's pretty good.

That's pretty good.

That's pretty good.

This is called Arrested Development.

I was gonna, I was gonna pitch Studio 60

on the Sunset Strip,

why?

Because it's all different studios,

Studio Mixed D'Uns and Development, and

arrested, development.

This is called Arrested Development.

And so I just have a list of some video games and video game characters here.

And

you guys have to tell me what studios.

I'll tell you how many studios have worked on them, and you can tell me how many you think you can name.

I'm just coming up with the rules kind of on the floor.

There it is.

So this first one.

is Crash Bandicoot, and there are three development studios.

Oh, this is going to be fucking hard.

I can argue this this is going to be so fucking hard.

Yeah, Naughty Dog's one of them, but

Naughty Dogs won.

Sony First Party?

No.

Wait,

hold on.

Is this the game or the franchise?

Oh, the franchise.

Oh,

the franchise, not just a single game.

Yes.

Okay, so

I just can't remember the, I just can't remember the names of the studios that made later entries.

Jesus.

I don't know.

This is, I'm done at Naughty Dog.

Okay.

I mean,

there are three.

I could just tell you the other two.

Yeah.

Traveler's Tales and Vicarious Visions.

Right.

Vicarious Visions is the sort of second go-to house for like remakes and remasters, I feel like, these days, because they did the Tony Hawk.

Yeah, and

Diablo 2.

That's right.

This next one, Star Fox.

There are

five studios that have made star fox throughout the years um rare worked on one of them that's right

um nintendo yes worked on one of them

oh fuck what else so we've got the

i'm just trying to think through them

they had the um yeah what was the

what was the gamecube one oh the gamecube one was the uh no but there was a double there was another gamecube one wasn't there i don't know star fox adventures yeah star Fox Adventures is the rare one.

There was a, but there's another GameCube one that's more Star Fox Armada.

Is that the name of it?

Yeah, that sounds right.

The fuck?

The fucking made these fucking games?

I don't know.

Did Sega make one?

Uh, no, Sega did not make one.

I can, I can tell you the others.

Yeah, here we go.

This is a hard one.

This is hard.

I kind of thought this was going to be too hard, and this is kind of why we're only going to do this the one time.

Also, kind of ties into just you know, us

moving networks.

Um,

this one, so Star Fox development has gone to, yeah, Nintendo, Rare, Namco,

Q Namco, that's what I was thinking of.

Q Games and Platinum Games.

What did Q Games and what did what did Q Games make?

I don't have that in front of me, unfortunately.

I just have the studios.

Do not ask me questions, Nick.

The next one is

Star Fox Command.

Star Fox Command.

Q Games one.

That was the

That was the Nintendo DS shoot-'em-up.

You guys might be able to get this one.

Mortal Kombat, two studios.

Kind of easy.

Midway.

Great.

Acclaim.

It's incorrect.

Acclaim published it for console, right?

I believe so.

So what fucking makes it now?

I wish I knew the name of it.

I don't follow the modern Mario Kombats at all.

It's a subsidiary of Warner Bros.

games, Netherrealm.

Netherrealm is owned by Warner Brothers.

They developed the more recent Mortal Kombat games because I believe Midway

is no more.

Losing so much fucking gamer cred now.

This is sort of also why I created this game to just, yeah, to humiliate the two of you.

Star Wars Battlefront, two studios.

Oh, this is Pandemic.

Worked on one of them, and then the other one was handed off to Dice.

That is correct.

They're both EA games.

And EA folded Pandemic.

Yes.

Which is a fucking...

I interviewed there back in the day.

Wow.

Would you ask people?

Why didn't I get the job?

Where's the bathroom, buddy?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hey, buddy, where's the shitter?

This one is sort of more of a broad one, but Donkey Kong.

Donkey Kong's kind of bounced around by developers.

Right.

I mean, this, if we're just including Nintendo First Party broadly, that's got to be on there.

Yeah.

Rare, obviously.

Yes.

Retro.

Yes.

Let's see.

What else do we have?

That's three of the five.

We have Donkey Kong.

Was Tongi Kongo was also Nintendo First Party, right?

What other Donkey Kongs are we missing?

Jungle Beat,

should be the same team.

What about the Donkey Kong Racing?

Is that...

Yeah, Diddy Kong Racing was rare, I think.

Yeah, because Conquer was in Diddy Kong Racing.

Right.

Do you have the names of the games?

I don't have the names of the games in front of me, which would have made this a little easier.

Can you give us hints on one of them has appeared on this list, and one of them I've never seen before.

Are these Western developers?

I believe so.

I mean, one of these worked on the Star Fox series as well.

Oh, so just two studios.

The Platinum Games, Donkey.

Platinum games.

One of them's Nanco,

and then the other one is, I think it's pronounced

Pa on, P-A-O-N.

Another studio that worked on Donkey Kong.

And let's do.

What game was that?

Do we know?

I don't.

Yeah, I don't have anything in front of me.

I just have the list of studios.

The Fallout franchise.

Do you guys have any

memories of the studios that worked on Fallout?

It was Interplay back in the day was the publisher, but I'm trying to remember the developer.

It wasn't Black Isle, was it?

It was Black Isle.

That is one of them.

Holy shit.

And then

the current ones obviously

are published by Bethesda,

but another studio develops.

Oh, no.

I thought those were developed by Bethesda.

Shit, shows what I know.

They're

Obsidian.

Oh, Obsidian.

Obsidian made New Vegas.

Yes, Obsidian made New Vegas.

And then let's just do this last one, Metroid.

The Metroid franchise.

should have gotten new Vegas

Metroid franchise You know again, you've got retro obviously.

Yes, you got Nintendo first party

Oh, what's oh fuck who's the fusion developer?

Oh fuck.

What the fuck are they called?

I should know platinum

platinum

Well, the the developers for um for Fusion are um still Nintendo Nintendo Research and Development Number One Department.

And then they also have another one called Intelligent Systems.

Intelligent Systems was another one.

Team Ninja was.

Intelligent Systems is another like Nintendo kind of second party.

Team Ninja did the.

Oh, right.

Right.

Intelligent Systems made the.

Yeah, fuck.

Which ones did they make Fusion?

I think they made

Samus, the original Samus Returns uh and um

maybe

um

one of the other ones um

and then the more recent no they did they they're credited with the with the OG Metroid oh with the OG

systems yeah they've they've they're kind of like a um

uh you know fire emblem paper Mario but yeah the the original I'm trying to think what other Metroid games they worked on was it just that one

super metroid no we should super metroid was what Metroid and Super Metroid

and then the last one is their more recent uh developer they worked on um the 3ds remake of metroid 2 samus returns and um

metroid dread yes yeah that was the and i can't think of the name of the studio mercury steam mercury steam

and that's there's like there's so many of these but that's the the segment arrest development and uh we did a really good job uh Pion

is the studio that with the Donkey Gun game they made was King of Swing, which is the

um,

which is the

uh was a was a Game Boy Advance game where you kind of like

swung around.

Like it was basically just sort of navigating a map by having, by very, picking various handholds.

Wow.

Um, that was, that was challenging.

It wouldn't be a segment that I came up with that wasn't impossible.

I think this one, I think this has legs, though.

I think if we have, like, if you could give us hints for what the games are, like, that could help drive us towards it and little nudges.

Maybe

we can get Ron Howard to narrate it next time.

Hey, that's this week's Get Played, our first Get Played here on the Head Gum Network, which we will be continuing doing the show every week.

Again, you don't have to do anything to your podcast feed.

You'll continue to get it in your ear holes.

Also, check out our paywalled show, Get Animate,

where we are wrapping up cyberpunk and is what's coming up now?

Ghost in the shell.

We actually finished ghost.

We finished cyberpunk last week.

And

this week, as you're hearing this episode, we'll be releasing our episode about Ghost in the Shell.

All three of us talking about Ghost in the Shell over there at patreon.com slash get played.

That's right.

And we'll also hopefully have some more stuff over at patreon.com slash get played in addition to our get animated content that is all pending, yes, very soon.

Uh, you'll hear it, you'll you'll hear it here first.

We'll let you know, yes, on the show is where you'll hear it.

That's right,

and um, just because he's in striking distance, uh, Kevin, you got played.

Thanks, thanks for being a huge help, you're a hero today, Kevin, but you 100% got played.

It was only a matter of time.

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