The Legend of Zelda: A Pod to the Cast: Tiers of the Kingdom with Mike Mitchell

Sonobe, Kyoto Prefecture, Japan.

In an era before what we knew as video games even existed, a young boy named Shigeru Miyamoto would spend his days exploring forests and caves, looking for the myriad secrets within.

And it's these formative experiences that would later inspire a foundational piece of interactive art, the 1986 Famicom game, the Hyrule Fantasy, Zelda no Densetsu, better known by its North American title, The Legend of Zelda.

Miyamoto's fascination with the magic of the natural world evokes comparison to.

Yeah.

What's up?

What the hell are you doing?

Oh, I'm just introducing the show like I always do, you know, with my scripted dialogue.

That's that's not how we do shit here, okay?

That's that we do like a little, we do a little skit or something, you know?

It's like a little.

Well, I don't understand.

I mean, Mike Mitchell is here, my co-host, and I do the, I read my little intro in front of him.

That's Doughboys.

You do that for Doughboys.

This is get played.

Oh, I did it again.

Oh, I'm just the world's biggest goofball.

Yeah,

you must have taken your fucking dipshit pills.

Oh, I thought, because Mitch is where Heather normally is, so I thought it was the other podcast.

No, that's the thing.

We had Mitch on.

Oh, I'm a real dope.

Oh, I feel like a fool.

It's okay.

Accidents happen.

You know, I think we should just, you know, let's just do what we were going to do.

Right.

You know what?

Like,

I'm sorry.

I feel really dumb, but.

That's okay.

I'll just, why don't I just give my little tag to set up the show?

Okay.

And then we'll just get into it.

Okay, great.

This week on Get Played,

TGI Fridays.

No, Nick.

We practiced the Ocarina and Awaken Link as we tier list the mainline Zelda games in T-I-E-R-S of the Kingdom as the Legend of Zelda, a pod to the cast, begins this week on Get Played.

Welcome to Get Played, your one-stop show for good games, bad games, and every game in between.

It's time to get played.

I'm Nick Weiger, along with Matt Apodaka.

Hey, listen, everyone.

Wow.

Instead of hello, everyone,

your catchphrase has been Zeldafied.

I guess you could say it's Zelda month.

That's right.

Heather, who's normally with us, is on her honeymoon, but we're not talking honeymoons.

We're talking blood moons because it's Zelda month.

We are not talking about honeymoons.

If it comes up, I walk.

I don't want to hear that shit.

Yeah, we won't have it in this episode.

No.

This episode, we are going to begin.

The Legend of Zelda, a pod to the cast, which we are continuing all may long.

That's right.

And that means that this month's We Play, You Play, the culmination of The Legend of Zelda Pod to the Cast, will be The Legend of Zelda Tears of the Kingdom, a full episode dedicated to the new release coming on Monday, May 29th.

And I'm going to commit us all to this right now.

We'll have completed it.

We will all have 100% of the game in the 12 days since it released.

That's right.

By the time the episode comes out,

we'll mess around with it.

It's going to get messed up for sure.

Hey, you know who else messed around and found out?

Seg of America, their employees unionized.

Uh-oh.

Yeah.

Great news.

That's good.

That's great.

We love it.

We love to see it.

Usually that phrase is used in a way that's like, you fucked up, but they actually did a good job.

Well, I meant the company.

The company that fucked around.

Yeah.

And then they found out that their employees could consolidate

and become a unionized workforce.

That's good for them.

One of the major studios, like one of the big named ones in the world.

And a phonic company.

Yes.

So hats off.

I love it.

I love to hear it.

As I've mentioned before countless times in this podcast, I used to work in the video game industry in various capacities

in QA and customer support, in design.

It is a very

shitty industry.

And so it's nice to see some steps being taken forward for labor to assert its

so weird for an entertainment adjacent industry to be bad.

On that note, I should mention, as of this episode's release, this episode's coming out on May 1st.

Yes.

That is the day that the WGA's contract expires.

That is the union to which I belong, to which Heather belongs.

I believe our guest is a member as well.

And so there's a possibility that the day after this episode releases, the Writers Guild of America will be on strike.

So we're just, we'll wait and see.

You know, hopefully, I think, I think everyone's always hoping for,

you know, the best, but preparing for the possibility that there could be a work stop.

That's right.

And of course, if there is a strike, we're with the strikers, baby.

100%.

Yes, 100%.

Anyway, our guest today.

Not me.

Oh, boy.

Oh, shit.

It's a bad first impression.

I'm a Union Buster, baby.

Come on, full scab.

Craig Mason in studio.

Our guest today from Killing It and the Tomorrow War and the podcast, Doughboys.

This summer, you can see him on Twisted Metal on Peacock.

Mike Angel is here.

What's up, Mitch?

I'm writing Tomorrow War 2 when everyone else is fucking picketing.

Oh, God.

I mean, look,

I'll scab with you.

I'm ready for Tomorrow War 2.

Tomorrow War?

What would they be doing?

Tomorrow Wars.

Yeah, that's really good.

Tomorrow War, yeah.

Today War, probably, actually.

Today War is pretty good, too.

That's pretty good, too.

I think

Today War is pretty good.

That's a prequel.

Yeah, Today War, I guess.

But because of time travel, it's a sequel.

Got it.

Yeah, okay.

That makes sense.

I don't know.

Well, whatever.

Look, I'm not in the union.

I am in the union.

And, of course, support the union.

I'm one of the union people that they were like, you haven't worked, you haven't written in 10 years.

You're more of an actor.

You're very.

I made that choice.

Yeah.

You're an active member of Sega.

Brave of you.

Thank you.

And also, it is funny that you went from a really bad industry to maybe a worse one.

I actually think that that one is, I think video games are on the rot.

Like, I think that,

I think they're probably getting into better labor and practices over on that side of it.

And then the industry you're in has gotten into like worse stuff, at least for podcasting.

Yeah, I was going to say, we're all in the best one.

Podcast industry, baby.

Which, by the way, how often do people comment on this building and the place that you're in?

Not very often, but go off, King.

I just...

Like, it's in my mind, it would be funny if you guys were the only podcast in this building.

I'll say right now, we absolutely are.

I think, yeah, Patriot Radio's down the hall.

Wow.

They're not here.

I've described the offices where we now record Get Played as the bridge of a star destroyer.

It very much feels.

It's very funny to.

I mean, you even warned me.

Not you warned me, but you told me about it.

And then.

It's a different vibe from a lot of podcasts.

You're not going to see any of the WAC pack.

It's okay.

I would love to see the WACP.

I know me too.

I saw Baba Bowie one time on the street, and it was the most starstruck I've ever been in my life.

I was so excited to see him.

That's huge.

Yeah, it was great.

People were taking pictures of him.

I didn't stop him.

Baba Bowie is a better sighting than like seeing

whatever.

Jude Law is pretty good.

I'd love to see Jude Law.

I'd like to see Jude Law too.

Just talking about him.

But if you saw Baba Bowie, isn't that like fun?

Like, I'd maybe see Jude Law.

I wouldn't tell people.

But if I saw Baba Bowie, I think I'd tell everybody.

I saw Tim Curry in line at Gelson's once, and that was like the perfect nexus of like, that guy, I know who that is.

That guy is awesome.

And I would never expect to see him in person in such a mundane scenario.

I saw Channing Tatum at Gelson's one time.

The bluest, most beautiful eyes I've ever seen.

Channing Tatum?

Yeah, Tatum?

Yeah.

Do you know, I had a similar experience.

I've told Wise this before, but with Jay Leno.

Really?

I've heard, yeah, I've heard he has piercing eyes.

Okay.

He's beautiful blue eyes, Jay Leno.

Because I used to work at the improv.

I would see Jay around quite a bit because he was like, he would pop in there sometimes.

And

it was surreal seeing him because he's such like a character.

Like he's such like a person on television.

You don't sort of think you're going to ever see him in real life.

Where you're like, oh no, he's like a real man.

He just shows up and he's like a normal, like nice guy.

Yeah.

It was very strange.

I think he is kind of a nice guy, but also a psychopath.

I don't want to.

Yeah, no, of course.

I'm going to call him a national treasure.

That's my, that's my thought on Jay Leno.

I don't love Jay Leno.

Can I just say he must be protected at all costs?

Well, you're doing a bad job of it.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, it's my sole duty to do it, and I am not holding up my end of the bargain.

Poor guy.

He is.

Uh,

there's, I mean, like, he's gone through like a couple two-phase origin story moments.

Here's something.

My face is on fire.

Remember, there was like a few things.

There was a, there was a run of things that happened.

Yeah, he got in an accident, too.

Yeah, yeah, which I'm worried is like him.

Like, I don't know how old he is.

I don't have a clock on like how old he is, but I'm like, oh, he's going to start having to put away his toys.

I think one of, I think one of his marbles went to an exhaust pipe and it exploded in his face.

You know what?

We haven't seen the dancing kidos in a while, and I think they might, you know,

we shouldn't assume they weren't involved.

Yeah, that's a good idea.

I think they should get to the bottom of this, honestly.

Yeah,

if who else?

Them.

Just to go back real quick, because I do want to talk about...

Yeah.

So wait, one of your engineers is left.

Heather's not here.

That's right.

What's going on over here?

Everything's fine.

Everything's fine.

Mitch, everything's fine.

Have you seen a meme of the this is fine dog?

That's how things are going.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's great.

Everything's fine.

No, Heather will be back next week.

Yeah, Heather's just, Heather just had to go get married.

I mean, I don't blame her for leaving, but I also

it is, there's very much a feel of like the titanium.

This does feel like the unsinkable ship, the studio

studio.

I think that's what when they christened the Sirius XM Studios, they said, the uncancelable podcast network.

Yeah, that's right.

Mitch, I want to to ask you about Twisted Metal, but I do want to go back to what you said about the

labor conditions and the entertainment, various entertainment interests.

No, I'm just

to clarify, just based on my own experience, it's still pretty atrocious in video games.

It's getting better, but you know,

I know.

I think the I think the, you know, the major, most of the major TV shows and movies you see are produced, are union productions.

And the same, the opposite is true for video games.

Most of the biggest budget, highest profile releases are non-union.

So I think there's, there's work to be done, but it's, it's, you're definitely right that there is an ascendancy

in, you know, in labor power that we're seeing in the video game industry.

And we hope there's more of it.

Can we talk about Twisted Metal a little bit?

Jesus Christ.

Just that's just going to put me to sleep, everything he said right there.

So it's like, this is why I brought you.

We brought you because I'm like, I need help.

It's like, it's going great.

ASMR podcast.

Yeah, like my specific ASMR thing that I love is boring stuff.

I love talking about like once a serious issue for like 45 seconds and then they get fucking blasted.

Everyone's like, boo!

Skip ahead, skip it.

This is the Marin monologue part of the show.

Listeners falling asleep in the shower and breaking their necks because of you.

Why do people listen to podcasts in the shower?

That's wild to me.

I know, pounding off while you're.

That's listening to a pod.

So

my hot water went out today, and Weiger asked if I was able to finish jacking off.

Heather's going to be so mad when she hears this.

She'll never listen to this.

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Yes, Twist and Metal.

That's right.

Wages, the trailer, this is dated.

You don't like when I do this.

No.

It's our show.

The Doughboys podcast.

You behave however you want here today, baby.

All right.

No, I got to get in line.

is this is not my place, but but uh take your shoes off.

Do whatever you want.

Take my shoes off.

Who do you think I am?

An audition?

Who am I?

Quintarantino?

Should I have not said that?

We can bleep that.

That's okay.

Yes, Twisted Metal.

I don't mean to date this, but the trailer comes out tomorrow.

You're not dating it too much because this episode will be out on the Monday.

So it'll just be a few days ago.

So it came out on Friday.

Yeah, it came out on Friday.

It just came out on Friday.

And I saw some art.

A poster was released, right?

Yeah, there was posters released.

The poster was released today.

I don't know how official the poster is, but it's, it's on the, it's very funny to read.

You and I, Wax, talked about this.

Yes.

But it's very funny to see.

Because look, I'm looking up every comment that gets made because I do that with Dope Boys too, which is smart.

Very smart.

Good use to week.

Good use of your time.

I don't also do that.

I mean, people want to see stuff that people say about the show.

I think that that's a thing that's happened forever.

People want to see how people react to it or whatever.

Sure.

But the funny thing with Twisted Metal is that people have always been like, they better not like ruin this.

I'm like, this is like the perfect video game.

To me, it's like there's not, there's lore and there's characters, but there's not like a ton of stuff where you can't have fun with it.

You know what I mean?

Yes.

There's not adaptable story.

Right.

It's like people have an idea of tone and like characters and settings, but it's just like, yeah, there's not this dense narrative that you have to adhere to.

That's what I'm saying.

And anyways, it was that sort of thing of they,

there's a lot of comments of people being like,

like, I don't know.

I don't know if I'm going to watch this.

Like, like, there's a lot of stuff like that that I've seen of people being skeptical about the show.

Like, that's been like the overwhelming thing that I've seen online.

Not to be negative.

That's just what I've seen.

But I got to tell you, I think the show is going to fucking blow their socks off.

Wow.

I think the show is fun.

I've watched.

I've seen a little bit of it.

They're all going to be like an audition.

Hell, if I'm going down and you're coming with me, then I guess that we're fine.

That's so exciting.

And I think

one of the last times we were on Doughboys,

when Heather and I were on Doughboys, you showed us a picture that was so exciting.

I was like, I'm so excited for Mitch.

It's going to be so cool.

Because it has all the bones for just like a fun action comedy.

I can't wait to watch it.

What can you talk about?

Because

I know you've got NDAs to worry about but it's like but you have uh like like i can you talk about your role on the show at all

i can say that i'm stu i'm stew of mike and stew who is her character from twisted metal 2 yeah so i can say that i believe

it says here that um it says here that uh in like an effort to not necessarily promote like sweet stuff all the time sweet tooth is just going to be tooth yeah like because they could be eating like carrots and stuff and we've got we got we worked really we worked closely with the american Dental Association and and sweet tooth is now tooth yeah okay it's actually it's actually

it's clean tooth a clean tooth oh that's nice yeah every time he comes on he sparkles yeah yeah and we're actually the bat like the villain you know there's calypso

calypso is now gingivitis oh

so it's kind of a dental hygiene message just like yeah enlarge not so much about like fun like action driving or anything like that it's more like brushing your teeth is good yeah well the cars have brushes instead of tires i heard that yeah

just kind of brushing around.

They don't put gasoline, they put toothpaste in the cars.

Yeah, you put toothpaste in the cars, and then the like the terrain is a tooth.

So it's kind of like you're brushing it, like, you know, when you're driving around, you're brushing a tooth.

Yeah.

I'll say this, though.

I think it's kind of subtle the way they do it.

Well, look, it's all, that's, I saw an early cut of the trailer, so that's all in there.

I'm really excited to see that.

I don't know.

I don't, well, now that Friday comes, I don't know if it's like, I think it might be like the teaser trailer tomorrow.

Yeah.

I think is what is what it is.

But I think I think people will be excited about it.

And

can you edit me here?

Yeah.

In case I get trouble?

I think that there's a game coming.

I mean, I guess I can say I think that there's a game coming.

Wow.

Because it's never been confirmed, but I think one's going to come out.

Wow.

That would only be a good thing.

I think I can say that.

I think I can say I think a game is coming.

That would make if you're speculating.

I mean, I think because I think.

I think a game is coming out too.

Because I think that's, that would track with what Sony's strategy has been.

You know, they released The Last of Us Part 1, not the

PS5 remake or, you know,

remaster of the original game.

They released that with the

HBO show.

HBO shit.

I wasn't saying HBO shit.

With the HBO show, and

its sales exploded.

So I would not be shocked if they were doing a similar thing.

Maybe I'll just text you guys.

Maybe I'll text you guys what I know.

Okay.

Okay, good.

This is good.

So we'll just go silent for like a few minutes.

Yeah, we'll just text for a little bit.

All right.

This is a photo of a big tongue

with an ice cream truck driving around.

People forget that you are supposed to brush your tongue.

Yeah, you have to.

Yeah.

No, it's important.

So it is a part of the,

it's a part of the show as well.

All right.

I'll text you.

I'm going to just text you.

All right, great.

Mitch is texting right now.

Yeah, he's not going to be a nice thing.

Which he normally doesn't do during a podcast.

Oh, you know what?

It's not going to work.

Okay, great.

You're an airplane.

Oh, I'm in airplane mode.

Oh, it's okay.

Hey, can we tell us after that?

Can we talk about, speaking of airplanes, Mitch, you just were in, you just had a little bit of a travel trip.

And I wanted to ask you, when you're on vacation, are you a guy who brings a Switch with you?

Are you a plane gamer?

You know what?

I didn't bring my Switch with me and I should have.

I'm nervous about Zelda.

Tears of the Kingdom because I know that it's going to take up so much of my life.

Yes.

So that's a thing that I am kind of like genuinely nervous about, but whatever.

It's, it's going to be great.

Well, you're also a completionist.

And that's a, that's a big part I know of you of, of how you play games.

And I think that's one reason like you've been like maybe a little bit worried about like committing to a game like Elden Ring because you know it's just going to completely take over your life.

100%.

I mean, I didn't even get Elden Ring for that.

for that reason.

Right.

But you like, like, just speaking of Zelda, we'll get to the series as a whole in a second.

But like, I know when the Skyward Sword Remaster came out, you won 100% of that, right?

I believe I did.

Wow.

Wait, Skyward Sword?

Yes.

Yeah.

Skyward Sword, I did 100%.

Yeah.

The Breath of the Wild, I don't know if I did 100%.

That's a lot of Korok seeds.

I think I got, and I was like, all right, I'm going to do all the Korok seeds.

And then I just eventually was like, I'm not going to do all the Korok seeds.

That's too many Koroks.

I never

try.

If I found one, I found one.

Isn't there like 999?

Yeah, there's quite a few.

That's insane.

Too many.

Too many, if you ask me.

Too many.

Can we talk a little bit about a game that we talked about last week on the pod, which is another game I know you played and have some thoughts on, Mitch.

And I know that you're also a big fan of this franchise, Resident Evil 4, The Remastered.

Because you were going to say to me that you were going to bring up

what I'm playing recently.

What I've been playing recently.

I've been like so trying to find.

I've been trying to text you something and I've been trying to think of the name of another game.

And then I haven't been able to find the name of the other game.

So I've been Googling it.

I shouldn't have looked at my phone to begin with.

But

I did text you guys inside an inside scoop.

Okay, hold on.

Let me see if I can see it.

Just the two of you.

I haven't gotten it yet.

God damn it.

Are you in airplane mode?

I mean, my laptop isn't.

Yeah, neither is mine.

Oh, for fuck's sake.

Hold on.

This is great content for our

way.

I see the

text.

All right.

I'm off airplane mode.

And I remembered what the game game was.

And I put it back.

I put it back on airplane mode.

I've seen it and I put it back.

And I just, I just sent a final text.

But I don't, I don't.

Just get me out of here.

I've been playing Resident Evil for...

Yeah.

And I told you that it was like my least favorite of the

remakes.

Of the remakes.

And then I've changed my mind on it a little bit.

I think I really liked three as a remake.

I didn't, it's four is the only one that I've played, so I can't speak.

I can't speak to it.

Yeah, two, I think, is the two mad.

I didn't play the remakes, but you didn't play two?

No, I didn't play anything.

I played two on PS1, but I didn't play the remakes.

This is get played.

What's happening?

We're playing all sorts of games.

Can't play every game.

Resident.

Well, you should play.

Resident Evil.

Look, I think Resident Evil is like...

You're going to be mad at me when we get to the main segment later.

Oh, no.

Well, Resident Evil to me is one of, I think it's one of the top-tier franchises in video games.

like i if there's a resident evil game

look if there's a mario game i'm always going to play it which is crazy because i actually have never fully played the galaxies i've played them but i've never gone all the way through them but resident evil is one where i'm like if there's a main console mainline game i'm i'm gonna try to play and it was difficult because i have been a nintendo guy my whole life right and then not until the ps4 maybe is when i got my playstate when i started my playstation phase

but also the crazy thing with like not till PS4 is that PS4 was like now

15 years ago, whenever, like, it was a long time ago.

2011, maybe.

And what also, like the...

Yeah, 12 years ago, you could play a lot of the Resident Evil games on other platforms.

Like, you know, Red Red famously migrated to the Nintendo GameCube.

You could play Resident Evil 1, Resident Evil 0, Resident Evil 4, all the way to the

GCN.

I did.

I think Resident Evil 2 was the remake on Nintendo 64, right?

Yeah, I think they had a port on for the 64.

I can't remember which one it was.

I think that's right.

I think that was my gateway into it, was that Resident Evil 2 port on Nintendo 64, which might have been like, it might have, it was great.

I loved it.

And then there was a remake on GameCube.

Was that the Resident Evil 1 remake?

And that was also great.

Yes, that's

and then Zero, and then that's kind of where it, and then Resident Evil 4 was on GameCube, but I think I played it on Switch, and I loved it.

That was like where I was, I loved all the, I loved all the other ones before, but then I was like, I love Resident Evil 4.

It's one of my favorite games of all time.

I loved it on the Switch, on the Wii.

And then

when I replayed it again, I was like, oh, I,

it's, I now get the criticism of it back in the day that it's like not as much of a Resident Evil game or whatever, but I still, it's still, and then I played it and I was like, yeah, it's my least favorite of the remakes.

And then since then, I've been like, oh, it's really good.

And I've liked it.

And I've, and I've had fun with it in a way that I never had fun with a game is that I'm not a game replayer.

Like, when I'm done, I'm done.

And that's why I don't even like like, you know, popular, like, I don't do online, what's the football game where you hit the fucking ball in with the trucks or whatever the fuck that's like.

Oh, like Rocket League?

Yeah, like Rocket League.

I don't play, I don't care about Mario Kart was like the multiplayer game in Bond on Nintendo 64, GoldenEye.

Those were like the two that I was a multi, like where I was playing over and over again.

But since then, I don't really care about like co-op or or battle royales or anything like that.

I like

the story aspect and like trying to beat the game and then being done with it or whatever.

A campaign.

A campaign.

I like a campaign.

And then this one, I have been having fun in the second replay because so you finished it and started over.

Like you finished and started over.

Yeah,

I'm in New Game Plus right now.

Wow.

And I've never, I don't usually do that for what, but it's, it's, it's, I think that what's going to happen, though, is like when it gets hard again, I might fall out because I

last night it got to the point where the, where you see the first

virus explode in the guy's head.

Oh, yeah.

I'm like, oh, now they are like, they're so much harder to beat now that maybe I'll fall off.

But I want to get the, there's a, there's like a rocket launcher that has infinity ammo, and I do kind of want to get that.

That just be so fun.

Yeah.

Because we were talking last week about it with Zig, and we were just saying how much of a like a, like how much of a video game it is, like how like it's just like such a capital V video game.

I'm like, infinite rocket launcher, that's, that's the most fun you could have.

That's so stupid.

That's so satisfying.

That's great.

Can you do new, can you you do a new game plus again?

I think so.

From what I've read, yeah, you can keep doing it.

You can keep accumulating resources.

And that's actually one thing you kind of have to do to try to get a lot of the achievements, apparently.

Man,

you could do that in life.

You know what I'm saying?

Oh, man.

And you die, you start over again with me.

New Life Plus?

New Life Plus.

I'd hit

game over.

No, thanks.

One was too many.

I think that, like, in my new game, in my new life plus, when I was like,

I would walk up to UCB, I'd turn around,

wouldn't fucking meet Weiger.

I'd love to just see like the, because you get a ranking at the end.

I just like get like a C on my life.

That's all right.

Yeah, I would, I just, okay.

Well, my stats were bad.

Yeah.

And New Game Plus, if I never met you, like if I chose not to meet you, which would be great,

would I still then like have like our like

iHeartRadio podcast of the year award?

Like I would we still be able, would I still be able to keep my trophy?

Like, are you saying, would you have done a different podcast with someone else and that also would have like you found it?

Like, you still have to carry over.

Yeah, items carry over.

Yeah, uh, yeah, you still get to have your Celtics hat with a folded brim.

Yeah, I wake up in new New Life Plus and just with a ton of cum rags.

Oh, awesome.

I don't gotta find any now.

Uh, well, Mitch, so that's that's what you've been playing.

You've been playing our game.

And of course, I've had fun doing the replay.

I do have

the new

Star Wars Jedi.

What is it?

Fallen Order?

Fallen Order, I believe.

Fallen Order.

Jedi.

It's Star Wars Jedi Survivor.

Survivor.

Fallen Order was the first one.

Yes.

Got it.

Yes.

So Survivor,

I have queued up and ready to download this week.

And

I loved the first one.

It took me a while to get in there because the map, I've talked about how I don't like the map in that game.

The map is bad.

I remember that.

But as soon as I got past a part that I was stuck at, and I just powered through, I was like, this is like, it's such a good game.

I'm so excited for this new one.

And everything that I'm seeing raves across the board.

Yeah, it looks good.

Yeah.

I heard some really interesting buzz about Jedi Survivor: there's a point like in mid-game where your Jedi gets voted off the island.

Yeah, you know what I mean?

So this is the experience of being Heather.

At the end of the game, you beat Darth Vader and they say that Rupert won.

Remember Rupert?

I love Rupert.

I do remember Rupert.

I love Rupert.

Was Rupert.

So,

oh, okay.

So Rupert was the old guy, right?

He was a little older.

He wasn't so good.

Or is it Richard?

So wait, there's Rupert.

I think he's younger than all of us.

Yeah, Rupert was a little bit grizzled, I believe.

He wasn't like super old.

Yeah.

Richard was the season one winner who liked to walk around naked and then also like went to jail.

Yeah, and he went to prison.

I'm now Googling Rupert.

Yeah.

I'll text you guys about Rupert.

Oh, yeah.

Rupert was good.

Are you thinking of Rupert Murdoch?

Or are you thinking of Stewie's teddy bear?

I think I'm thinking of Stewie's Teddy Bear.

Rupert Murdoch on Survivor.

He would turn to dust pretty quickly, I feel like.

Did you know there's a Weiger?

Matt told me this.

There's a Weiger on the new season of Survivor, Carolyn Weiger.

Yeah, and she's a star.

That's how I I knew they weren't related that she has so much personality and has like, he makes these like really great faces and is like funny.

It's very funny because we'll get like an email that's like, hey, like

Matt Damon is interested in doing the Doughboys.

And I'm like, oh my God, that's great.

And Wager's like, all right, we'll put him on the list.

And then

the other day he was like, he texted the Dough Boys text chain and went,

and it was like, what's her name again?

Carolyn Weiger.

Carolyn Wiger.

Caroline Weiger.

He's like, we got to get her on the show.

I'd love to talk with her.

Here's a thing.

I've never met another Wiger who's not family.

She's a star.

She would be so great on the show.

She'd be great.

She's so on the show.

She's so funny on Survivor.

I'm a big Survivor guide.

She's got the heart of a champion.

She's so great.

And

as of now, this recording, the episode that just aired, she got to say some of her family stuff that she has going on.

I was like,

my heart, I love her.

I love her.

She can survive you know, however many days on a desert island, but then she can't last like a minute talking to Nick.

That's plenty to talk about.

My last name's like your last name.

I want that.

That's the real survivor challenge.

Are you also Estonian?

We got so much to talk about.

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Can we,

Matt, I'm curious because we talked a bit about Resident Evil 4.

What are you playing?

Okay, so last week on the show, I had said that I had felt a little out of sorts with games right now because I hadn't finished anything in a while.

That's right.

I fucking started cleaning up house.

Wow.

I hadn't finished the previous months, We Play, You Play, Metroid Prime, uh, remastered.

Uh, I only had the final bosses to go.

Just took a nice little afternoon, destroyed them.

Wow, destroyed them.

Meta Ripley, done and dusted.

Uh, Metroid Prime, toast.

By the way, the end game of that game is, I think, pretty strong.

The bosses go on a little bit, maybe, you know, a little bit too long, but that's true of a lot of games.

But like, the final boss being named Metroid Prime is so rad.

It rusts.

It's so fun, so cool.

That's an I had never played it before.

So my first experience with it was with the Switch and just a home run all-time game.

So, so good.

But then, I think because of the Mario movie, I've been wanting to play Mario.

Like, I was like, oh, like, that was like my big thing about the movie.

Was sort of like, I want to go and play Mario instead.

I'd rather be doing that.

Get the games out

when the property comes out on the big screen.

That's what Sony's been doing.

So, I had a couple of Mario games on my Switch that I hadn't really played.

Like,

the one that was for the Wii U, new Super Mario Bros.

Deluxe or whatever, the Switch port for that.

So I was playing that a little bit, but then I remembered

my favorite, Super Mario 3D World, has Bowser's Fury attached to it.

You know what?

I said that I'd play all the Mario's.

I haven't played Bowser's Fury, and I hear it's good.

It is so good.

Fuck.

I beat it in a weekend.

I was like, I could not put it down.

It is so fun.

And I was hoping, I'll probably say this again to Heather, but I wanted to save save this and say it to you.

I think it's the game that Sonic Frontiers wishes it was.

Wow.

Because it's like a big sort of like, it's not huge.

It's like very short.

You can do it in nine hours or whatever, but like, it's an open world Mario game.

Every

like area and level is just on the map, on the on the just the area where you can walk around and stuff.

And it's, it does feel pretty big because you're just Mario running around.

And each one has its, it has like a, there's a couple in each different sections.

And then every like six minutes or something, Bowser comes around and he's fucking huge, and you got to either get big or avoid his attacks while he's attacking.

And it is, it is so good.

It is so good.

I cannot recommend it enough.

It's, it's just such a good extension of the experience you have in 3D World, which is, uh, you catch me on a good day, might be in my top five games.

I, I, just, period.

Like, not Mario.

Like, I love it.

Yeah, but you also love 3D World.

Yeah, I, I, I, 100% of 3D World.

Yeah, I'll tell you this much.

That ending.

did you 100%?

I did not, but go ahead.

That ending, that last

is now becoming a thing in Mario, and I don't love it because I think Mario should be accessible and not, but they put it in for people who are Mario fans.

The last ending.

It's the Rainbow Road thing, which they did

in Super Mario World, I guess.

But they did an Odyssey as well.

There's just like an extended, like, hey, here's this super long gauntlet of a stage that you have to complete in order to get it all all the way.

The 3D World one, I remember being like extremely hard.

The Odyssey one is also very hard.

Did you play the one in Odyssey?

I don't think so.

I'm not a big 100% guy.

I'm just sort of like, I got to, like, even in

Bowser's Fury, you have to get 50 shines or 50 cat shines or whatever to roll credits.

And I did that.

And then it's like, hey, guess what?

There are 50 more shines for you to get.

I was like, I already did this.

Like, there's more.

I want to go back in and do it though, because it was so fun.

And it was a short enough experience where I'm like, well, I could spend a little more time in Bowser's Fury.

But it's, if you have 3D World, start messing with it.

It's so good.

It's really, really great.

Nintendo games never feel like a...

I mean, Zelda is going to feel that way.

And I remember my first experience when I got the Legend of Zelda.

Sorry, I never say it correctly, Wags either.

Ocarina.

Ocarina?

Ocarina.

Fuck.

See, I got it wrong again.

Ocarina

of time.

I pre-ordered that.

I got a t-shirt, which I wore to gym, and people made fun of me me in high school.

Uh, but I remember, uh, I mean, my friends made fun of me, yeah, and I did it for, I did it to be funny,

um, but I wore it like in gym class, but then I, uh, that was like the first game that I remember playing till like the sun came up.

Like, I was like, I'm playing this game, and it's like the sun is rising, right?

And I, and I, it was a great experience.

I loved it, and that was actually my first real, uh, my first real Zelda love was, was Ocarina of Dynames.

Wow.

Well, we'll get to that in one second.

I'm going to talk about what I've been playing.

Okay, well, can I just ask you real quick?

Please.

Nick, what have you been playing?

So I mentioned last week I was going to play some Coffee Talk Episode 2 Hibiscus and Butterfly.

Oh, yeah.

I had some issues with the PC version, which is that it seems to only run in full screen, and I've got this widescreen monitor.

And so the only way I could get it running in a way where I could actually play it was to just be running the XCloud version of the Xbox port of the game.

And so it was just kind of clunky and just one of those weird, like frustrating quirks that you run into with PC gaming sometime.

So I spent more time on a couple of other games.

One is Elden Ring.

I'm back on that.

Oh, baby.

You know, I finished Sekudo recently and I was like, you know what?

I bet I can knock out the end of Elden Ring before Tears of the Kingdom comes out.

So that really, I'm planning on doing that.

I think I can do it.

It depends on how far the Lakers, my beloved NBA franchise, advances in the playoffs.

If they get knocked out, I'll certainly have more time.

I'd say, don't worry, Biden says.

They could have advanced by the time this episode comes out, or they could also have been eliminated.

You know what?

Honestly, we're going to wait for the next one.

Same with the Celtics, right?

God, if the Celtics get knocked off by the Hawks.

That's wild to think about.

By the time this episode comes out, we will know the fate of both of our respective NBA franchises if they're moving on to the next round.

You know what would be a good game to play?

It's like four days, yeah.

You know, it'll be a good game to play just based on today.

The Willie Nelson birthday simulator.

Because just getting here to the studio was chaos.

Willie Nelson's birthday is today, as of the canonically today, as of this record.

Yeah.

And he is apparently either here or people are just here on his behalf.

Everyone's holding up peace situations.

Hey, dude.

I'm Willie Nelson.

And it was chaos over.

It was chaos.

A lot of people here.

A lot of people here.

You would expect chill vibes, but it's quite the opposite.

It's such a hubbub.

such a to-do.

Well, Willie Nelson really, in real life, as you know,

he's like like an evil crank.

Yeah, he's the Rupert Murdoch of Country Music.

So, Eldering, it's great.

It took me a little bit to remember how to play my build and remember how different it is from Sekiro, but yeah, if I can, I'm excited to spend some more time with it.

I also been playing on the Switch Advanced Wars 1 and 2 Reboot Camp.

This is a remaster that was developed by Way Forward, which is an American developer of the

Advanced, the first two Advanced Wars games for Game Boy Advance, which I played back in the day.

They're these turn-based strategy games that are so, so fun.

And they've got such a charming, cute aesthetic.

This one sat on the shelf for like a year because the Ukraine war happened and Nintendo, for some reason, overthought it.

It almost like just shelved it permanently because they were like, oh, we can't have a war game coming out while an actual war is coming out, is happening, but they eventually released it.

You know,

the big change from the original is the art style has gone from this, you know, this really appealing pixel art to, I can't tell if the character models for the portraits are you know 3d models that are cell shaded or if they're if it's just 2d line art that's animated either way i think those look pretty good uh the units have all been turned into like these uh uh

these these uh 3d models you know it's it's it's all 3d now and it still has the same sort of like you know really vibrant orange and blue color palette.

It's really cartoony, but it doesn't quite have the same charm that the original did.

So it's a little bit of an adjustment, but still the gameplay is so tight.

It's just,

I don't know, I love these games, but I also love turn-based games.

I love like ones where you can overthink absolutely like every single move you can make.

And this is definitely one where there's just so many ways to...

Each map is kind of like a puzzle, but there's so many ways to approach it that it's just super engaging.

So yeah, that's what I get.

That's what I've been playing.

I'm going to have to check that out.

There's just so much.

There's just so much coming out.

The rest of the year is fucked.

It's all packed.

That's the thing.

At a certain point, you just have to decide what I'm going to commit to and what I'm just going to have to ignore.

What are your must plays the rest of the year?

Well, Jedi Survivor for sure.

I mean, Breath of the Wild is going to take the rest of it.

And I can't even really.

Oh, Diablo 4 comes out in June.

Like, that's as far as I can think right now.

Those are like three huge releases.

It's like Tears of the Kingdom.

Diablo 4 and Final Fantasy 16, I think, in the comments.

Oh, shit, basically.

Final Fantasy 16?

I think also there's a chance Final Fantasy 16 just kind of goes by the wayside because

I wanted to play the other persona games, Persona 4 and

Persona 3.

I wanted to play those and I also wanted to at a certain point go back and play Bloodborne.

Street Fighter 4 and

Street Fighter 6.

Actually, Street Fighter 6 is a big one because I think I'm going to get into a fighting game this year.

So I might play that one.

Too much fucking too much shit.

Too much content.

Too much stuff.

Hogwarts Legacy for Switch comes out in July.

Gotta have that.

Gotta rebuy it on a different platform.

Finally, the Switch version.

I do think that

I'm trying to be a better person

and get my life in order a little bit.

So

you're going to

start a charity in July instead, right?

I mean, that's what I,

there's a lot of stuff that I should be doing.

Yeah.

And

Tears of the Kingdom is going to fuck me.

Like, I know that I'm going to spend so much free time on it.

Rest of the month is just a wash.

When that comes out, I'm just like, that's going to,

like, whatever, it's fine.

It's going to absorb a bunch of my time.

The thing that's nice about it because it's on the switch i'm gonna be like you know what i'm just going to leave and go play this on the switch somewhere else just to feel like i'm doing something

so where to

uh you know they're gonna ask you to leave too

wherever you go they're gonna be like get out of here go go stay with my second family

let's talk about

A pod to the cast.

We're going to talk about Zelda a little bit, and we thought we'd kick it off with what we're calling Tears of the Kingdom T-I-E-R-S.

That's right.

We're going to make a tier list of the console Zelda games.

I wanted to start here, and Mitch, you started to get into this earlier, but I think we should just go through our personal histories with the Zelda games.

It sounds like Ocarina of Time, was that your induction into the Zelda franchise?

I mean, I played...

I played the original Zelda

on NES.

Yeah, does that have a subtitle?

Just called The Legend of Zelda.

I played that on NES, and then I did play A Link to the Past, but I didn't own a Link to the Past,

which I know is one of the,

you know, it's one of the greatest games of all time

to a lot of people.

The dotemic entry in the Zelda franchise.

Yeah.

And I, I, uh, but, but it was mostly

64 onwards where I got really into them.

Um, but I played all the other ones.

It's not like I didn't play them.

I said this to you before we recorded, but I wish that we had AI Trump and AI

and AI Biden and AI Obama here with us.

I thought about bringing in the AI presidents to help us with this list,

but I figured we could do it.

It won't be quite the same.

It won't be the same.

Oracle of the Ages is mid.

That's great.

Fuck you, Sleepy Joe.

Link to the past should be S tier.

Okay, guys.

I'm just going to go ahead and put it in beer tier so we can move on.

Malia, go to bed.

Man, AI presidents.

They're so funny.

They're really good.

They're really good.

I was never worried about AI taking over until that, where I was like, that's funny.

Can I say something about the AI presidents?

I think they have more intelligence than the real ones.

Wow.

I disagree on all three accounts.

So

you played all of them.

The 64 is really where you got into the franchise.

Matt, how about you?

Okay, so

my first Zelda was a DS Zelda.

Wow.

Yeah.

I was not a Nintendo kid, so I just didn't have a lot of experience with Zelda, but I was always interested.

So I was like, okay, well, this is my chance.

Now I have a DS.

I'm going to do this.

This is finally my time.

And I've played some of the other main entries, but not as many as

I'd like because I just didn't, I didn't have the consoles, and Nintendo refuses to put them all out on the Switch, which if they had them all out, I'd be playing them all.

There are some available, though.

And I did, my experience with

Ocarina of Time, Ocarina of Time is

I played it on the 3DS for the first time.

Okay.

Yeah.

I didn't finish it, but I did play a good chunk of it.

I wonder how it holds up.

I haven't attempted to replay it in a while.

It's on Nintendo Switch Online, and playing it is a bit of a clunky experience,

in my opinion, so Nick knows this.

I wanted a Mario 64 remaster more than anything in the world, and I don't know why they haven't done that yet.

Still, I still wish that they would have to, like, the Odyssey engine.

Yeah, okay.

Come on, that would be a home run.

And the same thing, I mean, I know that that's a lot of work for developers.

We've talked about this.

Nick, it's basically can sometimes be like a ground up.

Yeah, there have been instances where the source code just doesn't exist.

Like, it's just like they either can't find it or, you know, back in the day, they just like, like, hard drive space was at such a premium that they just, like, once the game was shipped, they just deleted all the original source files.

So they'd have to rebuild it from scratch.

I believe that's part of what, the, part of what led to the Final Fantasy VII Remaster, which is such an extensive ground-up overhaul.

That, well, I,

I wish that they did.

And they did this.

What was the Zelda game that just came out?

And I loved it too.

The, uh, the Link's Awakening remake.

Links Awakening remake.

So I was like that too.

They redid Link's Awakening, which is, I I loved it.

Can you imagine if they did that for a link to the past?

People will go fucking crazy.

Hey, I'd love to see that.

Or the same style, even.

I loved the style.

The artist

is so good.

And it seems like that's not as intense.

I mean, it's, I'm sure, a ton of work.

They can do it in like 10 minutes.

Yeah, they could do it quick.

Fucking

easy.

Come on.

Just fucking do it.

They got a link to the past.

Because I replayed a link to the past and I made it like halfway through, but, and I put it down.

And I think it's just that thing of like, anytime I'm playing an old game, I like never,

whatever, it always drops off for me.

But I, if they, they got it, they should, they should remake.

And they should remake Ocarina of Time, I think.

Give it the breath of the wild engine, Wags.

I'd love to see it.

I'd love to see that.

You know, I'll just talk about my own personal history with the Zelda franchise, which goes back to the original on NES.

And I was like, when that came, I had that game when it came out, and I was so young, I didn't really understand how to play it for like a while.

Like, I remember,

like, I can't explain how to play.

Because it's non-linear, you know?

And like I was like, I'm like a little fuck.

I'm like a little boy.

Little fucker.

And so I'm a little fucker.

A little fucker.

And so.

I got nipples fucker.

Can you look at me?

Like, like, I'm just what, I don't, I was like, how do I finish a level?

Like, I didn't understand that the idea of just walking around and exploring.

And then, you know, I got to the, I got to a, I have a vivid memory of getting to a fairy and then she just surrounds you with hearts.

And I'm like, did I win?

Like, I didn't understand how the game was supposed to be.

I was joking, I called you you a dumbass but now I maybe do stand by that

did I win

well come on but then I but we by the way we all play the little Falkers game right we all we all yeah you have to go around collecting all the little fuckers are running loose and you have to sort of collect them back and you can pick between being uh Robert De Niro's character or Greg or um

it was a Wii game so like there was a lot of like you know pointing

and motion controls you know that sort of shit the final how do you guys do on the final boss fight against jinx

well jinx is tough jinx is tough yeah because you got to you got to milk jinx yeah and you got to replace you got it it's not even really jinx it's the replacement jinx you got to milk the fake jinx and then it's like you've got to use the motion controls and they're really like you know it's really sensitive yeah it's it's one of the things where you hold the motion control like upward like you hold it like an utter like an utter yeah then you like are then you're like milking the the wii remote basically yeah i did like the section of that game though where you have to say bomb on the airplane oh that's good that's fun that's fun that is a lot of fun.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What else do I remember about this?

I think they maybe use the Pilot Wings engine for that, for the that airplane scene for just a second.

I think so.

Yeah, it's a little, just a little homage.

Honestly, not enough video games where you can beat Ben Stiller.

Have you ever been, has there ever been a controllable Ben Stiller?

I don't think so.

I wonder if there's like, is there in any of the reality bites video game?

Okay, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

That was a big one.

There was a Birthday Boys video game in development,

and so he did an episode of the Birthday Boys.

So it would have been playable at one point.

Yeah, but the main, you know, you know, you'd be surprised.

You know who you were as like the main player in that game?

Kowalik.

Oh, Matt Kowalik.

Wow.

Koalak in the game.

That's great.

And he can

slide between corners and like under two tools.

Yeah.

Like a lot of girls.

A lot of rat tendencies.

His

suit.

To reveal his health meter.

It's just a big block of cheese.

Already listeners to Doughboys are like unclear when we make that reference.

And now

on a different podcast, people are just like, what the fuck are you talking about?

I mean, just jacking off hearing it.

Saying birthday boys, people won't even know what the fuck we're talking about.

Here's what I'll say: the best sketch show of the 2010s.

Oh, come on.

You sound like an AI president.

It was the best sketch show of the 2010s.

You should have seen what they've done with these sketches.

Unbelievable stuff.

No, I honestly re-watched it.

No ladies, only white guys.

I re-watched it last year when I had COVID.

I watched all of it.

I was like, this is so fucking good.

I wish there was a million pages of it.

I loved it.

I pray that

I get to be.

I pray that there's a playable.

If they do a Twisted Metal video game,

I pray that

there's a Stew.

They get to be Stew.

I pray that I get to be Stew in some way.

Did scan your full body?

They need a bigger scanner-wise.

I put a couple extra ping-pong balls down there.

I got got scanned for Tomorrow War.

I did that.

I did do the whole body scan.

Yeah, it was cool.

Yeah.

They asked for a junior ping-pong ball for your crotch.

Can we get a BB?

They're like, actually, we don't need it.

We'll just, we can guess.

Yeah.

We got your pinky.

Yeah, they used a white BB.

They used a dipping dot.

We'll just use that.

You already have that on you.

Have you had Dippin' Dots recently, though?

I have not.

You know what?

We did it for the show.

They're good.

They're good.

And we kind of didn't.

I think we did have a lot of fun.

They're fun.

No, they're fun.

Ice creams are already good.

Dippin' Dots is funny because they're more widely available than you would ever think.

They're like at a lot of 7-Elevens or something.

You can find them more than you think you can, but they're not noticeable.

No, they're kind of just there.

If you know, you know.

At my 7-Eleven, there is just like a separate Dippin' and dots, like branded freezer just for dip and dots.

I was like, I can't believe there's this much demand for these.

And it's not like a big 7-Eleven, it's like a small

footprint store.

That's in your, you're like, they're like, sometimes the thing that's surprising there, though, is that you'll look in there and you're like, they're almost gone.

Yeah, I know.

People still, people

are like, oh, fuck.

I'll have some Dippin' Dots.

Why the fuck not?

Do you have a good relationship with the guy at your 7-Eleven or lady?

Yeah.

Yeah, we're cordial.

I actually go to

a local and independent liquor store more.

And so I see that guy all the time.

That guy's great.

Okay.

Good for you.

Yeah.

Must be nice.

Yeah, it's good that I see the guy at the liquor store all the time.

I mean, that's what I was going to make fun of him for, but

I decided not to.

It's not my show.

So

I've been playing since the original, and I really do love this franchise.

I think that I would say that it is

still my second favorite Nintendo franchise after Mario.

I still like Mario more, but I love the Zelda guy.

I like Mario more, too.

And I think that just like, I think they've done a great job of evolving it over time.

And that's part of the genius of Nintendo is that they're able to keep these franchises relevant by continually reinventing them and adapting to new technologies.

I'm curious, because we're just going to talk about home console

Zeldas because we only have so much time.

We can't go through like 25 games.

But are there any of the handheld Zeldas that stand out to anyone?

I'll call out two in particular that I really loved.

The Minish Cap for Game Boy Advance.

That's the one I always hear good things about.

Great.

Lots of great teeny tiny shit.

A lot of fun.

And then also A Link Between Worlds, which is basically a sequel to A Link to the Past.

And it's so well done.

And it's got this one thing that

mechanic where you can rent items,

which is so like, it's such an interesting, just, you know, little bit of

a little bit of flair on the existing Zelda formula that makes like you basically get access to everything you need up top, but the penalty is that you lose it if you die.

And you can become flat.

Yeah, that's cool, too.

That's like really fun.

It's like a fun way to get around.

You're like, oh, I need to solve this puzzle.

What do I do?

Oh, I got to become flat here.

That's good.

That's good.

That's good stuff.

I will say also the game that brought me into Zelda for the DS, the Phantom Hourglass.

Wow.

Phantom Hourglass is really fun.

It's in that similar style.

I don't think it's 100% like Wind Waker, but it's that Toon Link style.

And it's great.

I really love the Phantom Hourglass.

I haven't played it in, God,

what, 20 years now?

It's old.

2007.

Yeah,

practically.

18 years.

But, right?

Yeah.

All right.

Well, let's get it.

Amitchi, any handheld Zeldas you like?

Handheld Zeldas.

No.

All right.

I'd like to hold hands with Zelda.

I mean, oh my God.

I would love that.

She's fucking royalty.

Fucking cream my jeans.

What am I?

Mike Mitchell at an audition.

I cream my pants every time I go into an audition.

He books.

He books.

He boosts.

Works all the time.

Let's talk about these games.

Okay.

So first off, we're going to start with the Legend of Zelda 1986 for NES.

Here's my case for A-rank.

I think this game is established.

You got this game for your high school graduation gift.

It was on his wedding registry.

I think actually, I think this was actually, my older brother Nate got this one.

And I think that part of how, my awful older brother, and part of how I learned how to play it was like, oh, he knows how to play the game.

So I can kind of.

Yeah, I was going to say, he probably had no issue figuring out how the game works.

Well, yeah, I mean, there's like a, there's like a five-year age gap.

So like, you know, he had to figure it out.

I think Legend of Zelda, the original, the OG, it's still pretty playable.

It is, it establishes basically everything that is important about the Zelda formula.

And I also feel like one thing I love about Breath of the Wild is that it evokes what it was like to play the Legend of Zelda back in 1980, whatever the late 1980s it was.

Where you couldn't turn your console off.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Well, no, it had a save.

It had a built-in save.

It had a battery.

Wait, did it really?

Yeah, this was one of the first games that had a save feature.

First console games that had a save feature.

Wow.

Yeah, no, that was absolutely huge.

You didn't have to leave it on overnight.

And so.

I do not remember that because I always would just play Zelda from the beginning anytime I played it.

Right.

So, so it's now who's the fucking dumb little kid.

Look, I was making fun of you, but it was an inherently confusing game.

It's confusing if you're if you're like seven years old, you're like, what the fuck is happening here?

It's got a lot going on.

But if you compare that to something like a game like Adventure, which we covered when we were talking about the Atari 50th anniversary collection, like that game, like you're a dot with like a little line that represents a sword.

It's so crude and you can only really play it for historical appreciations purposes.

But this game you can actually still play and enjoy.

And so I think Legend of Zelda 1 should be A-rank.

That's my take.

I don't disagree with it because

it's such a strong enough foundation that everything else that comes after it stands on its back.

Like it needs to, like for this one to, the other ones to even exist, this one has to work.

So I think A is a good spot for it.

I mean,

I want to even put it in B tier because, but I think historically, I just think you're right.

I think that just like even just on replayability, it's like, I don't want to play the original Zelda.

Do you?

I'd rather, no, if I was going to spend my time playing, like, I'd only, that's only just for like kind of, I'm semi-contradicting myself.

It's, it's, it's more

because of its legacy that you'd want to replay.

If I was going to replay a 2D Zelda, I'd rather replay like a Link to the Past.

A Link to the Past.

I mean, but then also, like, that jump to a Link to the Past is so

stark.

It's so crazy.

I'd be okay with it in B tier as well.

I just like, I, you know, you know, let's stick it in B tier.

That's fine.

And if we want to re-jigger things later, that will get in trouble for that.

For changing them?

No, no, for being B tier.

I don't know.

I just, it's good.

It's really great.

I mean, it was, it was a standout.

It was like Mario and Zelda were the big standouts, right?

On Nintendo, like in Metroid, I guess, right?

It depends on how much room you want to leave to.

to grow.

Like, so if you're doing like a Mario like tier ranking, there's an argument you could put Super Mario Brothers, the original, in S tier, but I'd also say that like probably Super Mario Bros., which probably holds up better than The Legend of Zelda 1,

is an A tier, so you have room for Super Mario 3 and Super Mario World and Super Mario Odyssey above it, you know?

Could you not save any of the Nintendo Mario games?

One, two, or three.

No, they had no save feature.

That's bad.

Yeah.

That's bad.

Yeah, because three was meaty.

I'd say, you know what?

It has a save feature.

Maybe it should be A tier.

All right, fucking nudge it up to A tier.

All right, A tier.

All right, moving on to Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link.

This comes out in 1988.

I remember my dad buying this game for us for Christmas,

and he talked about how it caught, like, you know, my dad's very thrifty, but also a very generous guy who did love giving gifts.

And

wish the apple fell farther from the tree or a little closer to it.

Yikes.

Don't get me excited bringing up apples.

Nick fucked an apple.

fucking

feel like fucking Milton Burrell at the Dean Martin Celebrity Room.

Beebopetting all over me.

Sitting on the dais trying to mind my own fucking business.

I know.

We have a time constraint.

Does your dad listen to get played?

I don't think so.

He doesn't listen to some shit.

He's got bad taste.

He listens to dope.

You'd think he'd love this.

I think the video, I think the, even though my dad dad plays some video games, I think a lot of the video game talk is over his head.

So, okay, so the

legend, anyway, Zelda 2 Adventure of Lake, my dad bought it for $70

for like Christmas 1988,

which I just checked the inflation calendar

calculator.

Thanks, Biden, is $178 today.

That's insane.

So imagine spending that much out of your paycheck for like a kid's video game, you know, like it.

Anyway, so I was very hyped for this game.

Completely changes the Zelda formula.

It is,

there's a world map that you walk around, and then the combat encounters are 2D, like side-scrollers.

Interesting.

It plays very strange.

It's kind of a cool game in the set, like looking back on it in the same way that Super Mario Bros.

2 is like a cool kind of departure.

I was going to say, Mario 2, they did a weird thing with, I mean, I know that Mario 2 is a reskin, basically.

Yeah, right.

But it does, I feel like it doesn't really work.

You know, it certainly doesn't work as well as a lot of the stronger entries in the series.

I think, to to me, that's a C tier.

I know for B tier, but I feel like

it settles in C.

I think C is a good spot for the future.

D feels some cool stuff.

Is D too rough?

I feel like D.

I think

are there any Zelda games that will be D or F?

I don't know.

It's possible.

I think that's unlikely.

The thing, these are all high-quality games.

And also, there are things that are established in this game, like the, you know, the up thrust and the down thrust, you know, things that became kind of like convention.

So it still kind of has its own, uh, its own legacy.

I don't know.

I think it's a cool game.

Yeah.

Jump up.

I'll tell you about it later.

I was going to say, it sounds corny.

That brings us to the.

By the way, did you,

how would you rank Zelda?

Like on, do you think, like, like her hotness scale for one and are we doing a waifu tier list?

Yeah.

For one and two.

I'd give her a 10 and one.

And I think that she's a perfect 10 all the way through the series.

Okay.

Yeah.

I think, of course, you'd say that, Biden.

She's exactly your type.

Remind you of your daughter, you freak.

You can't smell her hair, pervert.

Fuck you, Donald.

Her beauty is undeniable.

Okay, everyone, just settle down now.

We'll put Zelda in the S tier for waifus.

She's got some nice pixels back in the day, let me tell you.

Yeah, Zelda's nothing to shake a stick at.

All right, next up, A Link to the Past, the Super Nintendo entry.

I mean, we've got to go S tier.

I think it's

feels like the first S.

Like, it's the one that everybody talks about from

that generation.

I have played a lot of this.

I have played a lot of this game, to be clear, and I'm mad at myself for never finishing it.

I started it this week just to see how much of it I could get through.

And I was already like, oh, this is...

a fucking blast.

It's so

it holds up great.

It's very playable, even for some Super Nintendo games wags.

I've told you this over time.

I thought Super Nintendo was one where I was like, oh, it's replayable.

And I do think to an extent, and I wonder how you'll feel about this, that some, a lot, maybe more Super Nintendo games are replayable than Nintendo 64 games.

I think that's absolutely true.

Because the Nintendo 64, they were figuring out the conventions of 3D gaming.

And by the Super Nintendo generation, the Genesis, TurboGrafx 16, that whole era, they had kind of

perfected 2D gaming.

And a lot of, you know, there are games like a game like Actraiser that you remember playing better than it actually does if you were a visitor.

It's like, oh, this is a little clunky.

There have been some innovations, but by and large, they'd figured out how to play, how to design a 2D game by that era.

So I think you're absolutely correct.

I loved it.

I want to play.

I want to beat A Link to the Past at some point, but it seems like this is, I mean, from what I've played of it, I loved.

And also everyone loves it.

And it is...

This is where Zelda really gets chugging, I feel like.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

I feel like because they start having, I feel like they just, from here, from this point, just like from looking at the history as like a timeline in front of me, this this is when they start to have like really a lot of fun with what like these games are and then like explain like you know, if this is true, what else is true to borrow an improv uh parlour and also also it just it when you when you do when I wonder how you feel, but when you're playing it, like it doesn't feel dated, right?

No, it feels like I mean, like, because like a lot of games that are coming out right now that are like pixel art games are good and they play exactly like this.

Like, they're like, and so it doesn't feel, it doesn't feel its age at all.

Like, it just is, it has that timeless quality, yeah, Just like Zelda herself.

She's an easy S tier waifu for me.

All right, next up, Ocarine of Time comes out in 1998.

By the way, it's kind of wild, like the timeline of this, where it's just, you know, 1992, LinkedIn to the Past, 1998, Ocarine of Time, just six years separates them.

They're completely different generations, obviously.

I mean, another, you know, another masterpiece.

I think this is another easy S tier.

I think this is S tier.

I'm going to say, is there a

should we add like a Z tier and just sort of like at the end say this there's one defining Zelda game?

There's one like Zelda game to kind of like rule them all.

I wonder if that's worth doing.

I don't know.

I like that idea.

I think Z tier is good.

I don't know how to do it, but I'll figure it out.

Okay, great.

Maybe F tier could just be Z tier.

Sure.

I mean, why not?

There's F.

Look, can you change F to a Z?

Look at that.

We're using the tier maker here.

Yeah, you might be able to do that and then just move that bad boy up.

There we go.

This is huge.

Wow.

I can't believe we did that.

And we just didn't say anything while we were doing it.

I would say it's possible that one of the.

Well, we'll have to wait to the end, right?

Yeah, it's possible that one of these games may be nudged up to Z tier, one of these ones that are already in S tier.

We're going to see.

All right, moving on.

Maybe Breath of the Wild is moved up to Z tier.

Moving on to Majora's Mask.

Now, I love this game.

I think it's better than Ocarina of Time.

I know that's not the popular dog, but I think it's so funny.

It's really good.

It's fantastic.

The masks are so good.

The timing is such a cool mechanic.

I think it's another S-tier game.

I think it's also another S-tier game.

I mean, it makes sense that they were checking on.

Do you agree with that, Matt?

I have not played Majora's Mask.

This is where I start to have my blind spot, but it looks cool.

I've always wanted to play it.

I'm happy to go S-tier

just based on how emphatically you both immediately were like, I'm going on vibes for some of these.

Here's the great thing about it.

It's the weirdness of Zelda games, which Zelda games have a lot of great weirdness in them, like with just the townspeople and you're talking to people.

Skull Kid is fucking weird.

Skull Kid is weird.

There's a lot of weird shit.

And I mean, there's

the balloon man.

What's his name?

Who's that?

Tingle.

Tingle.

Tingle's a fucking weirdo freak.

Yeah.

Tingle's like.

Tingle is like the wager of the Zelda world.

I'm a skull kid with my fucking giant hand.

But

Majora's Mask, like, it really highlights the weirdness of of Zelda.

It's just a weird, great.

I should have got the 3D, the 3DS version of it when I could have, and now it's just impossible to get because the Vig shop's gone.

$400 an eBay or something.

Yeah, okay, I'll just do that.

Yeah.

You know, like,

you know, like,

this is so dated, even my reference, but like goth kids like Nightmare Before Christmas.

Yeah, too.

You know, like that thing of like, I love Nightmare Before Christmas.

I got Nightmare Before Christmas tattoos.

Yeah.

Majora's mask is kind of like the Nightmare Before Christmas.

It's the Tim Murton Zeldor.

It's like, it's like I could see people having that as a tattoo.

It's like, it's like, ooh, these like interesting, cool people like this.

Yeah.

Right.

Like you're walking around Nintendo World and like there's like, you know, like, oh, there's people wearing like a, oh, someone wearing a Wario hat.

That's funny.

Like, oh, there's someone dressed up in Link cosplay.

That's, it's like, ooh, there's someone like with a in a dressed up as Skull Kid.

Oh, they're like a little etchy.

Yeah.

They look good.

It's like a pack of teenagers.

They're like kind of cool.

Okay, well, now

I retract my they look good.

I'm no longer commenting on it.

That's, but that's, that is, that's the vibe from yeah, like, yeah, like you're around Disneyland.

It's just like, oh, the people who are in Nightmare Before Christmas.

It's like a different sort of edgier sort of energy that's still safe and family friendly.

Yeah.

I totally agree.

All right.

That moves on to another one.

And look, this is going to be, this may come across as absurd.

I think Wind Waker, which comes out for the GameCube,

another S tier?

Is that crazy?

I think based on what I've heard you and Heather say about it, like Heather is so like,

for if you don't know this, Mitch, Heather,

the conversation at the time when the trailer was out, people were like, this fucking sucks.

I hate this.

Yeah.

Heather was like, I'm all in on this immediately.

And I think it gets to be,

if I

she had never played.

No, if we're talking about, we're going back in time.

We're going back to like 2001 when this game is announced and there's like a backlash, which I remember.

Like people were pissed off about its art style.

and uh but like it in motion and and and playing the thing it holds up so well here's what i gotta say yeah

you sleepy wigs the travel mechanic is archaic

there is there are strikes against it i think that it that it is so gorgeous and unique but yes it drags in the in the late game um getting around with the boats is kind of a pain in the ass getting around with the boats is a pain and remember at this point now i am a i'm a hundred percent completer guy yeah oh sure and this is a game that i don't even know if i if i finish and it happened to me twice when it came out again on, uh, did it come out on Wii?

What was the reason?

Yeah, they did a, uh, I think it's on Wii U, right?

Yes, it was HD remaster.

I, I got the HD remaster.

It's fucking gorgeous.

It is gorgeous, but again, the same thing fucking happened to me again where I could, I didn't finish the game because it gets so fucking annoying towards the end of it.

It's like all the Triforce pieces you're retrieving, and it like it does get very tedious.

And you and you, and you, and you fall off.

Look, Wags, I got to say A tier for this one.

I'm not going to fight you on this.

Let's put that in A tier.

They can't all be S's.

And it's not a game that

it's a game with its charms, but it is also a game with its flaws.

That's well offered.

Heather's going to be pissed.

Fuck, I fucked up.

Oh, well, let's keep going.

Hey, speaking of people being pissed, Twilight Princess comes out in 2006 for GameCube and Wii.

I think that the generational split hurts this game.

I think this is a B tier.

I don't think this stands with the other Zeldas.

Wise, I think you might be right.

I think this might be a B tier game.

Wow.

I'm happy to put it in B.

I remember watching gameplay of this and being interested in enough, but didn't have a GameCube, so it just had no way of playing it at all.

And it's just not available.

You can't play it on anything.

Yeah,

this one is worthy of some sort of remaster because I think that it could be fun to play it again.

Look, I don't think it's a bad game.

Yeah.

None of these are bad games.

That's what's amazing about this franchise.

This sucks because I

look the idea of turning into a wolf is fun.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

How's that?

That's a blast already.

Resident Evil did it.

Resident Evil Village.

It's fucking great.

Actually, I didn't know that about Resident Evil Village.

You don't turn to a wolf, but you fight wolves.

There's just wolves in it.

All right.

Well, that's totally different.

Look.

It's like Balto.

So cool in gray when Leonisa turns into a wolf.

The idea of it is great.

Yeah.

Yes.

The idea is great.

This game lost my interest for whatever reason.

Maybe a little too self-serious.

It seems like it's pretty dour for a Zelda game.

It doesn't seem like it has the same sort of charm as the other ones, even.

Another issue was this towards the end of the GameCube's life.

So this was, yes, this comes out as a Wii launch title and a GameCube latent life cycle game.

And they kind of tossed in Wii motion controls that were kind of half-assed and they weren't great.

That kind of skews his experience a little bit.

And yeah,

I feel like also it's just kind of bloated and feels like a little bit of a slog.

I think this is where the format, though, the formula is feeling a little stale.

Yeah, I think B-tier is the right place for this.

Which brings us to the first game that I feel, and I think the only game among this list that I don't feel super comfortable commenting on because I really only played a few hours of this, which is Skyward Sword.

Mitch, I'll defer to you.

And Matt, I know you spent some time with Skyward sword as well but i did not play this game i i played this game i i had it for the uh the wii i did not play the remaster first of all i want to say that the art style of this game also cool as hell yeah it looks great it doesn't get enough credit for that yeah

um

i this so this is a game that i this is a zelda game that i just didn't buy originally wikes i didn't i didn't even get skyward sword and i like didn't even attempt to play it wasn't this is this to me feels like twilight princess in a way of like was this like towards the end of the consoles consoles?

Absolutely.

2011 for the Wii.

So the Wii's been out for five years.

It's fucking long in the tooth.

A lot of people ignored it.

It came with a, there was a bundle that I got that had the motion plus controller, the Wii remote, because that's how the, you know, the sword controls were originally one-to-one.

Yeah.

And there's still some of that that, that, that.

moved over, but I like didn't do any of the motion controls basically in my in my playthrough of it.

There's like, I had to shake the controller or whatever, but but let me tell you, I played it on the Switch.

I played the remaster um

i fucking loved it i oh wow i 100ed it i did i did i loved it you were you doing it with the motion controls or were you playing hand i was just i was just playing with the with the the wii you the the what's that the joy cons they kind of remapped it where it uses like the the d-pad or something the joystick the joystick or something yeah something like that but i but i i loved it i i like i i completely

I was like, oh, this is a classic, and it's just is kind of wrapped up in all these kind of weird end of a console lifespan, weird, gimmicky controls.

There's like a lot of different things, but I'm like, it's great.

I think I, for me, it's A tier, but I understand if people want to put it below A tier.

I'm going to, I'm going to defer to you.

I think let's jam that bad boy in A tier.

I know the remaster was really well received.

See, because people are now going to be like, you have, you have Skyward Sword.

I mean, this is why, you know what?

This gets the listens, baby.

This gets the ears to that.

Controversy breeds listens.

Yeah.

No, I.

But we have Skyward Skyward Sword on the same level as the original Zelda and

to Wind Waker.

I don't think that's crazy necessarily.

I think the original Zelda sticks out now being there, but I could be wrong.

Would you mean it should be moved up or moved down?

I feel, I mean, doesn't it feel like it maybe should be moved up?

I just feel like those two being next to it makes me be like...

It's either it moves up or

like those move up or it moves down.

I mean, you could move, you could move

everything down.

I don't think anything here should be D tier as a thing.

I think C is as low as we should go.

I think that should be the floor because I think Adventures of Twilight should be interesting.

I think we should join

Zelda 2 in C tier.

Maybe.

Honestly, you know, if you want to have, if you want to have like some Zelda zero, I don't feel like Wind Waker or Skyward Sword belong in B tier.

I think those are, I think the way we have it out right now is completely reasonable because I think that Zelda is definitely a tier below.

The original Zelda is definitely below those other three games in terms of the, you know, executing the formula that it established.

And I think the other two games are not as quite as on the same level as,

as much as I love Wind Waker, they're not quite on the same level as those

that trilogy.

All right, next up, let's talk about The Big Boy, Breath of the Wild.

Oh, shit.

I mean, easy S tier.

Easiest S tier of my fucking life.

Easy S tier, but maybe a not so easy Z tier.

Well, that's the discussion.

Because for me, when when it comes down to Z tier, it's like, how much do you care about

what Zelda kind of became before Breath of the Wild came along and kind of, you know, upended the formula?

I'll say my piece.

By the way, see the F we made?

Oh, shit.

Of the games.

We made a big F.

Oh, you mean just in terms of how they're laid out geometrically?

Yeah.

Kind of looks like an F, yeah.

Looks like a big F.

Yeah, it looks like a big F.

For all the fun we're having.

Is that the direction F goes?

Yeah.

What the fuck?

It looks backwards to me.

Is that the direction F goes?

You know, you ever look at a letter and it's like, is that the right direction?

No.

No.

Feels backwards to me.

I can't believe you even had an internal thought.

I mean, if I just saw it in the context of a word, I'm sure I'd be able to pick it out, but just seeing it in isolation, at least.

Is that the direction F goes?

That's like overheard in an elementary school today.

Mitch, maybe do you have like...

An hour to talk afterwards just about like how we're both doing with all this, you know?

Is that the direction?

Yes, that is the direction F goes.

Now, did we do a good job?

I don't know.

And we're going to ruin this F because we're putting something in Z tier.

Well, we've also got, and I guess the other thing to consider is: are we going to throw Link's Awakening?

We've got to talk about Link's Awakening.

I do think Links Awakening for Switch is really a delightful game.

I don't know if it should be in the same tier.

I feel like that's maybe another B tier, even though it's a lot of fun.

B tier.

I think it's really cool and charming.

I think it maybe feels.

I don't know.

I also didn't play the original Game Boy game, so I have a different...

You know, I'm just

considering the modern version.

If you put it in B tier, then Twilight Princess has to go down to

C tier.

If you want to fight for A tier, I think that's fine.

I mean, I had a lot of fun with it.

I thought it was a cool...

I loved it.

I beat it completely, which it wins points for me.

Yeah, and I'll say...

Because I've messed around with Skyward Sword and was enjoying it enough, but I couldn't really get

a handle on the controls.

I do want to get back into it because I bought the amiibo.

There's an amiibo with the bird and Princess Zelda that gets you a different glider in Tears of the Kingdom.

I was like, this is worth the price of the amiibo already.

I gotta have that.

I gotta have that different glider.

But

all that said, I think Link's Awakening is more fun and better than Skyward Sword.

So I would almost knock down Skyward Sword to be

and put Link's Awakening in the the a spot

even though the the remake is not represented on this this tier list it is the game boy version but i we all know what we mean twilight princess and skyward sword can't be on the same tier level i don't think i think we got to kick one down okay a couple down right all right okay fuck it but bring uh bring link down to d tier again this is a these are tier lists relative to other zeldas yeah so it's you know it's it's not a d of a game it's still a very it's a good game but uh versus the other zeldas not on the same level And then you're going to create room for Link's Awakening, you're saying?

Do we put Link's Awakening in B or A?

I would argue A.

I think it's better than Skyward Sword.

So you're saying to move Skyward Sword down to B t instead of Link's Awakening in A.

I think.

Look, we have to get controversial here.

We got to fucking

get mad at each other, you pieces of shit.

That's the only way it gets done.

You little fox, you dumb fucks.

Move wherever you want, Apple Doggy, you dumb fucking idiot.

I'm just being a little fucker.

This is just as fair as the 2016 election.

I think if you feel strongly about

what president is that

Hillary.

What president was that?

Hillary?

Still my president.

Well, yeah.

Okay.

Links Awakening to me feels

it feels like a half game.

It doesn't feel like a I love it.

Don't get me wrong.

I don't know, though.

I mean, I get it.

Look, I'm aware of that.

It's the same bones as Link to the Past, right?

Like, it has like the sort of same like, well, I guess Link to the Past is more like the original Zelda in that you can kind of just go wherever.

I like it in A.

So I like it in A and B.

Skyward Sword, I love, and I think that a lot of people don't love it.

But I think that for people not loving it, I get you guys putting it in a B tier.

It makes sense.

We can't just go off what I'm saying here.

I know, but like you're our guest and they're like our friend.

We want to like this is what we're doing.

No, you also want 100% of it.

And I say, you know, I think I've done more than my feet wet with Skyward Sword.

I kind of bounced off of it really early and never returned to it.

I think if we're going to put Link's Awakening on the board,

if it has to be in B tier, it has to be in B tier.

Because it's not, it's quite, it's not Twilight Princess, right?

It's not the adventure of Link.

Yeah,

it's a little bit of a more, you know, it's a more linear experience.

It's got some, you know, quirky

dated elements to it, but it is, it is a cool game.

And it's a really good remaster.

Yeah.

And, you know, I haven't played the Oracle of Ages Oracle season.

We're not doing handhelds, but I feel like of the other handhelds on the board, they could all go in the B tier, too.

Well, we're not going to handle it.

We don't have time to get into the handhelds, but I think you're right.

I would disagree with you.

But we don't have time to get into it.

I think you're right.

All right, so let's figure out one to rule them all, one Z tier Zelda.

Wow.

For me, my candidates are Breath of the Wild.

Triforce tier should be T tier.

Yeah, okay, it's T tier.

All right, so Matt, do you mind changing that, please?

Matt's going to go ahead and change the Z to a T.

Okay, so we got a T tier for Triforce.

Oh, shit, but if it's Triforce, shouldn't it be three games?

Okay, so we'll pick our top three and then we'll go back to Triforce tier.

Change it back to Z tier.

Okay.

Back to Z tier.

All right, it'll be Z tier.

Matt's going to change it.

But we're still picking our top three?

We're just going to pick one.

Okay.

All right.

I'm going to make the case for two games.

It's either Breath of the Wild.

And my Breath of the Wild thing is that I feel like recency bias, there's sometimes people like, ah, that's recency bias.

But then there's also, I think

there's a recency bias, like bias, which leads people to underrate things that are recent.

Because I'm just like, I think it's the best Zelda in the same way that Mission Impossible Fallout is the best Mission Impossible.

Sometimes the most recent one is the best one.

Yes.

And I think

that's true about Zelda.

As a man who thinks Mario 64 is the...

was the best game, I think Odyssey beats it.

Yeah, sometimes that happens.

I mean, Odyssey is certainly a lot, you know,

it's a great evolution of the form, the formula.

That said, a link to the past in terms of the classic Zelda is so refined.

It's such a

great overall experience.

It might be my pick for Z tier, but I'm not sure if it kind of holds up

for

gamedum at large.

I feel like people would probably point to something else.

I guess the other one you can talk about is Ocarina of Time.

I, again, like Majora's Mask more than Ocarina of Time, but a lot of people say that's the defining Zelda.

Ocarina Ocarina of Time for me would be Z tier, but it's a nostalgia, a nostalgic pick.

I think if I have to look at this,

what's the word I'm looking for?

Objectively.

Thank you.

If I'm looking at this objectively,

fuck you.

You didn't know which way F went.

It's hard to fucking remember stuff.

Yeah.

If I'm to look at this objectively,

a link to the past is really good, but.

Part of me also just thinks like, it might just be Breath of the Wild.

People aren't putting as people are putting like hundreds and thousands of hours into Breath of the Wild.

It is endlessly replayable.

And I think that speaks to, and also, again, the genesis of this franchise, the original Legend of Zelda was so much about just like exploration, a minimum, a minimum of hand-holding, you know, whereas a lot of these games got to be just endless dialogue boxes, so much like, hey, do exactly this now, so much, so much reteaching of mechanics.

And let me just throw it out there.

The hottest Zelda of all is like a wild Zelda.

Yeah.

She's a looker.

But then again, the fountain fairies and Ocarina of Time.

I mean, come on.

But the Fountain Fairies and Breath of the Wild, they're not what they gotta think.

I leave much to the imagination.

Yeah, that's uh I'd love to be crushed by any one of them.

I,

of the Zelda's on the board, Breath of the Wild is the one I've spent the most time with.

It's a game that didn't hook me at first.

Yes.

I started it over three times before I finally finished it.

Well, that's kind of the beauty of it, too, is that you're like, wait a minute.

It taught me how to love it, right?

And I think that is like, I don't know.

That's what a good, that's what, that's like a good relationship.

I will say, I will say that.

I will hide that.

Yeah, I agree.

You hate the person that you're doing.

You have to break up with them three times.

And then finally, you love it.

And then you settle for it.

I think that the one thing that I will hold against Breath of the Wild is that it is so different.

That's the thing.

That's the Zeldas.

That's the argument against it is that because because it kind of subverts the existing formula, is it the defining Zelda?

But I think that it upended it in the way it needed to be upended at the right time.

And I think we're going to see this

format continue to evolve with the game Tears of the Kingdom.

So that would be my argument for BOT dubs.

And, well,

my counter-argument,

none of these games really.

are like each other, right?

Like the one that comes next isn't necessarily like the one that comes before it.

And this new one

is sort of like Breath of the Wild, too, right?

Like, it's like it's, I mean, there's a little more to do, there's gonna be even a little more game design.

It looks like there's like maybe has dungeons or something.

So, are you saying Z tier should be Tears of the Kingdom?

I'm saying because it has a game that is basically an iteration of it,

it's not, it's no longer going to be unique in a couple of weeks,

and therefore, I think it belongs in S and a link to the past maybe belongs in Z.

Wow.

Having not played it.

I'm surprised to hear you make that case.

I mean, I would not object to Link to the Past being in Z tier.

It's a fucking marvelous game.

But

I do kind of feel like Breath of the Wild is the correct move.

And I also will say that, like, if you look at Zelda and Majora's Mask, I'm sorry, if you look at, you know, Ocaring of Time and Majora's Mask, those are very similar

that just like, you know, change how they're executed and what their narrative is.

I'm happy to put Breath of the Wild in Z because I, like I said, it's like the one that I rolled credits on.

I like felt like I did something, even though I spent

like 90 hours in a week doing it.

My Z tier?

Zelda Fitzgerald.

There you go.

Okay, I think...

Would we have this franchise without Zelda Fitzgerald?

That's a great question.

We might not.

I think, yeah, Zelda Fitzgerald has to go in the Z tier.

All right, Zelda Fitzgerald will be Z tier.

So just to recap,

D tier, Adventures of Link.

C tier, we got Twilight Princess.

B tier, Link's Awakening, the console remaster.

A tier, the legend of Zelda.

Also, the Wind Waker, and then Skyward Sword.

And S tier, we are sticking.

Link to the Past.

Very heavy, very top-heavy, but understandably so.

Link to the Past, Mockering of Time,

Majora's Mask, and Breath of the Wild, and up in Z tier, the Defining Zelda, Zelda Fitzgerald.

Congratulations.

Wow.

We stand a legend.

Yeah.

And you know what?

I'm going to put Zelda Williams up there, too.

All right, great.

Robin Williams' daughter.

Yeah, that's right.

Perfect.

Named after the Zelda game.

Named after the Zelda games.

Yeah.

So there you go.

The two.

If you had to have, if you got to add one game to make the Triforce with those three, with those two,

is it a link to the past or Breath of the Wild?

It feels like it's just a dead heat here.

I think I, I honestly, my head says Breath of the Wild.

I think that that's, that's, that's

clearly thinks a link to the past.

I, I could go i could i mean it for the sake of i guess ending the exercise i i would i would fold and say breath of the wild i think it's like i mean it's like it's an all-timer it oh i feel like zelda lists that i've seen it's ranked number one and it's ranked number one for a reason all right i'll say breath of the wild as well it is now z tier wow we did it congratulations get the out of here zelda fitzgerald you're 86

back to hell for you

say hi to nixon all right Hey, it's time for, hey, that was Tears of the Kingdom.

Matt, it's time for a segment.

That's right.

You got out for a minute to go to the Zelda tier, eh?

That's Nixon in hell.

God damn it, Barack.

I can't believe you drank a skyward sword that high.

They should do old school presentation.

Come on.

I have to say that

my favorite Zelda was Triforce Heroes.

All right.

So I have a segment.

It's called Fan Theory or Canon.

Normally.

But for this month, I'm going to call it Fan Theory or Ganon.

Let's get.

Okay.

So basically, I have.

The only thing we have to fear is Calamity Ganon.

So how this works, Mitch, it's I'm going to have, I'm going to read a couple of things here, just like short little things.

And you're going to have to determine whether or not it's a fan theory or if it's canon to the Legend of Zelda franchise.

Okay, great.

Wow.

Here we go.

The Majora's masks are Trapped Souls.

Canon.

Mitch with Cannon.

Mitch with Gannon.

I want to play Zelda now, now, now.

That's Lincoln.

That's Lincoln?

That's Lincoln.

That's from the movie, Lincoln.

Oh, I didn't see it.

Oh, you got to see Lincoln.

I feel like I looked at a $5 bill and I was like, I get it.

Should we do a Spielberg tier list?

Oh, man, that'd be fun.

I think we could get it.

I think we can knock it out in the next five minutes.

Yeah, I think so.

So, Mitch says Cannon or Gannon.

What do you say, Nick?

I'm trying to remember their Trapped Souls.

I'm trying to think of some of the more elaborate quests.

Like with the wedding mask, you end up with.

I can't remember just exactly what happens narrative.

I do think this does feel like canon.

It is a fan theory.

There's a fan theory that they represent the five stages of grief,

but it's not so.

It's never been really confirmed.

Each transpiration mask represents someone possible or definitely has passed on.

And the Goron who appears as the bargaining ghost, the Zora musician who passes in front of you, and the Deku mask could represent the past child of a Deku butler.

Perhaps unable to accept their own passing, these souls must stay trapped forever in the masks.

It's a fan theory.

If you could be one of the creatures, I mean, I think I would have to be a Goron just size-wise.

What would you want to be of the bunch?

The plant one is always the Deku.

The Deku one is always kind of creepy to me.

I don't think I would.

It feels like very much like the fly.

It's like Cronenbergy or something where I wouldn't want to be the Deku.

But the Goron and the

swimmy ones again.

Yeah, I think that's my answer.

And a lot of that is from the Way of Water.

I'd be thinking I'd be the Zora.

I think it'd swim around with Prince Sidon.

Fucking his hunky ass could teach me how to hold my breath.

And you know that.

You know that they're fucking down there.

They're so fucked.

They're clearly the horniest of the species.

Yeah.

But you never know.

I think the Gorons can probably fucking go to town, too.

Rolling around all over?

The Dekus are like fucking weird.

I don't know how it works, but it's fucking gross.

It's like asexual reproduction.

There's like spores and stuff.

Yeah, that one hole.

That one hole.

Yeah, fucking gross.

A fungus.

I'll be whatever Tingle is.

I think he's just a guy.

He's just a guy.

I think I'll just be a guy.

Okay.

Good choice.

This next one sort of goes into what we were just discussing.

The Zora evolve into the Rito.

I think that's got to be a fan theory.

Yeah, that's fan theory, I think, too.

We're wrong.

That's incorrect.

This theory was actually confirmed by Nintendo in the Hyrule Historia.

Wow.

That is insane.

Yeah, it suggests that the Zora are ancestors of the Rito tribe in Wind Waker.

The Zora are

first seen in Ocarina of Time.

After the events of the game, there was a great flood resulting in Wind Waker World.

Although you'd think it says, well, this is now this person editorializing.

Although you'd think that the Zora would love this water world, they decided to evolve into birds for some reason.

There you go.

That's how evolution works.

I guess I'll just be a bird now.

Fuck this.

Ah, the bird people are pretty cool, too.

Yeah, the Rito are awesome.

The timeline of Zelda is, oh, that's one of those things things I always get scrambled in my head.

It's like, oh, wait, which this one happens like 400 years before this other one?

I don't know what the fuck's going on here.

We never, we never really did talk about the horniness factor of these games.

There is a, there is a high horniness factor that I didn't realize.

Yeah, they're high key horny.

When I was a kid, and like seeing the fairies in the fountain when I was a kid, I was like, oh, like I did, like, you know, I was like 15 or 16.

Yeah.

Got my dipping dot all excited.

This thing's about to melt.

Yeah, it melted my dipping dot.

Uh, Here's another one here.

Twilight Princess is a sequel to Majora's Mask.

Interesting.

I'm going to say that's...

Again, the timelines are so confusing.

I'll say that's fan theory.

I'm going to go...

I'll just go the opposite for the fun of it.

Ganon.

Okay.

Mitch is correct.

It is Ganon.

Ganon.

This was confirmed by Nintendo in the Hyrule Historia.

Due to the time travel in Ocarina of Time, three timelines were created.

In one, Link fails to defeat Ganon.

In another, Adult Link has Ganon sealed.

And in the third, Child Link protects the Sacred Realm.

We also know that Majora's Mask is a sequel to Ocarina of Time.

After Twilight Princess was released, fans speculated and later learned that it was the same timeline.

We now know that Twilight Princess took place about 100 years after Ocarina of Time.

Wow.

Time's on the board with one.

I got to get this fucking Hyrule Historia.

Yeah.

It's got all the information.

This is a lot of shit.

I mean, you read a lot of shit and there's different years, like you're saying, different generations.

It's just hard to fucking know.

Who could even say?

Here's one more.

We're not being bad fans, all right?

This is the issue.

All the games on this show.

Don't play the Zelda games.

Yeah, the real takeaway is that they'll be mad at you for getting these inscrutable things wrong and not mad at me for never playing a Zelda.

The Zelda games are a dream within a dream.

I've heard a version of this before.

I think this is a fan theory.

It's a fan theory.

Yeah.

So you both get a point.

Yeah, it's like it says that because the games all start with Link sleeping and he never goes back to sleep in the games,

they suggest that the previous one was a dream and now he's also dreaming again.

Dreams within a dream?

Yeah, inception style.

That's insane.

That doesn't happen.

Tell it to Christopher Nolan.

That's true.

Tell it to him.

see how he takes that i would never do i would never i would never say nothing to him i had a dream last night i was just watching gators eat people alive it was fucking horrifying that's insane yeah i had a dream the other night where i was like army crawling on my floor trying to avoid my landlord seeing me in the window it was so strange why i guess i want to know why you had both had these dreams i don't know You had gators eating people alive?

Yeah.

I was like, I saw like, so I got a gator like bit a dude's leg off and he was like starting to trying to

crawl away.

And then he turned towards the gator, and the gator, like, fucking ate him whole.

I was like, this is unbelievable.

Are you sure you just didn't have crawl on?

Crawl ripped.

Were you just watching crawl?

I loved crawl is awesome.

I'd watch like four more crawls.

On Doughboys, I said crawl was one of my favorite movies of the year.

I loved it.

And then

people were kind of like, that's like one of your favorite movies of the years.

And then Tarantino said it was one of his favorite movies.

Well, and he's always right.

Yeah.

He's right about it.

I do have one more here.

And let's just, I'll just read this one real quick.

Link's Awakening was inspired by Twin Peaks.

Hmm.

Fan theory.

I'll say Ganon.

It is Ganon.

Wow.

Well, we're tied.

Yeah, I guess I do have one more if we want to do one more.

I was typing on this computer.

I don't know why you all have computer setups in front of you.

Do you use these ever?

I think they're able.

It's more like if there's like a live radio situation here, like more people can have stuff.

in front of them, but I got it.

These are just not, they're nothing to me.

I haven't.

So there's like another January 6th, these things could come up and you guys could like watch it and comment on it.

Well, I'd probably take it and take a shit on it is what I do.

Another January 6th, I'm not going to be here.

Yeah, what are you talking about?

The creator of the game, Tezuka, said to achieve what he wanted to, he was watching Twin Peaks at the time, and he wanted the game to focus on a small group of characters in a small town, which is what Wings Awakening is.

And so he got that feeling from watching Twin Peaks.

Yeah, it feels like the sort of thing that

a developer would have been watching that at the time and just sort of.

All right, that makes sense.

Yeah.

Should we just head on a tie?

Let's just head on a tie.

Let's head on a tie.

Let's head it into a wholesome place.

That's nice.

Yeah.

Mitch, you were very nice to bless us with your time.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

This is such a delight.

A damn hoot.

Such a hoot.

That's this week's Get Play.

The links for our social media are in the episode description.

And hey, our new engineer is Alex Gonzalez, Dead Air Alex G on Twitter and Instagram.

Wow.

So thanks for being with us, Alex.

Happy to have you on board.

And you can also.

Your last engineer was from Massachusetts and a Patriots fan.

So did you decide to get rid of her, Nick?

Was that what I was doing?

That was just a negative energy.

We didn't want her out here.

Also, our paywall show, Get Animate.

We're wrapping up Blue Lock over there.

You can find that at StitcherPremium or at patreon.com/slash get played.

Mitch, Mike Mitchell, our guest.

Check out Twisted Metal.

Anything else you'd like to plug?

No, Twisted Metal comes out at some point in this next year.

I don't know if there's a, and the trailer is now out online, so check check that out and that'll be on peacock and that'll be on peacock and then uh the the doboys podcast with nick wire yeah oh yeah and the doboys double check that out check that out we got matt on an episode coming up uh talking starry oh yeah that was a lot of fun what a time that was it was a great time i can't man we i can't believe that hasn't come we've had we've been backlogging but that feels like it uh It feels like that we did that like a year ago now.

Time flies.

It really does.

It's truly wild.

What a blast.

Mitch, thanks for being here.

Thanks for having me.

Do we want to play that?

Yeah, I think we wanted to say that Mitch mentioned this earlier, but Jordan Duffy, who worked with us for her time here, she is moving on to other shows.

And we loved working with Jordan.

We'll miss having her around.

But we wanted to acknowledge that she has put her stamp on this show.

She has left her legacy.

And that is, of course, the song she made for us, Stream Daddy.

Stream Daddy.

Thanks, Jordan.

We'll bet you

and you got played.