Jonathan Pokluda | Girls Gone Bible

Speaker 2 Hi guys, I'm Mange. And I'm Ari.
And this is Girls Gone Bible. We're a faith-based podcast where we talk all things: spirituality, life, Jesus, the Bible, mental health.

Speaker 2 We don't care who you are, where you come from, where you've been, come as you are. Just please don't stay that way.
Today, we are in Waco, Texas.

Speaker 2 We've never been here before, but we're so happy because, as you saw in the title, we have

Speaker 2 Mr. Jonathan Pakluda on Girls Gone Bible.

Speaker 1 Let us go.

Speaker 2 JP, thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 1 Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 Do you mind if I blow up your spot a little bit really quick?

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 1 I think so. That's fine.
I think so.

Speaker 2 So I'll have you guys know that. JP was the first person that I ever asked to come on Girls Gone Bible because if you guys are on social media, you've definitely seen him.
He's all over the place.

Speaker 2 His clips are everywhere. His sermons are amazing.
He is one of the best speakers that I've ever had the privilege of listening to.

Speaker 2 And what I love about you, JP, is that you are very similar to Ari and I in the sense that you didn't always know Jesus the way you know Jesus now.

Speaker 2 And you really are just so honest about your struggles, where you've come from, and the things that you've dealt with in the past.

Speaker 2 And so I sent an email to probably your team and I was like, you guys, I would be so honored if JP would come on Girls Gone Bible.

Speaker 2 Like, I want him to be the first guest because he's the core and the heart of what we do here. And they said no.

Speaker 1 No, no, it was like, hey, can we do it virtually? And you're like, no, we want to do it in person.

Speaker 2 I literally,

Speaker 2 when you guys reached back out and you were like, hey, let's make it happen. Come here.
I screamed and I called Ari and I was like, you don't understand how good this episode is going to be.

Speaker 1 No expectation. Keep your expectations low.
No,

Speaker 1 you guys have the gift of encouragement. And so thank you.
Thank you for those kind words. I am a chump from a small town.

Speaker 1 I've got a two-year degree from a college you've never heard of. And

Speaker 1 I'm 6'7. I'm weird tall

Speaker 1 and not athletic at all. And so God just continues to teach me humility.
And then one day he says, all right, you're going to teach the word. And so here we are.
You know, it's a blessing to be here.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Thanks for that.
Thanks for the encouragement. Thanks for the words.
Thanks for all you guys are doing. It's amazing.

Speaker 1 I watched you from the come up. I mean, from the get-go, out the gate.
And I just like the Lord anointed what you guys are up to. And so it's awesome.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 So I just want to know your story. I mean, you just said you went to college for two years.
So did you go to seminary? Did you, no way.

Speaker 1 Yeah, never went to seminary. Wow.

Speaker 2 That's crazy. So what's the story? How did you find Jesus? How did you become a pastor? Yeah.

Speaker 1 So I was raised in a small town, South Texas. So 6,000 people in the middle of nowhere.

Speaker 1 Like, there's no movie theater no bowling alley you would drive there's a town about 35 minutes away if you wanted to go see a movie or something and I was raised on a farm and so my dad was a cowboy I mean we had cattle and horses and all the things and I just was like I wanted nothing to do with that total rebellion

Speaker 1 And I went to a small Catholic school for nine years, so kindergarten through eighth grade. And we had religion class every year.
And I got the religion award eight out of nine years.

Speaker 1 And so one year, Brandon took it from me, but I'm not bitter.

Speaker 1 And so, you know, so I had like some idea of faith. And Catholicism taught me like a reverence for God that I'm really grateful for.

Speaker 1 There was like a ceremonial aspect to coming into church and whatnot. And that foundation I'm thankful for, but I never understood grace.

Speaker 1 And so high school was, it turned into total rebellion, identity crisis, always, I mean, like found identity in relationships.

Speaker 1 So girlfriend to girlfriend to girlfriend, but everything else, just so insecure.

Speaker 1 I mean, truly, I went through these phases of being a cowboy to a gangster to a skater to prep to try the athletic thing. And just none of those hats fit.
And

Speaker 1 I didn't do well in school. And my mom was a counselor.
And she said, hey,

Speaker 1 you can go away for two years or you can stay here for four. That's what we'll pay for.
And so I said, I want to go away for two years.

Speaker 1 And at this time, like I'm, I'm drinking and partying in high school. I started smoking weed.
I'm sleeping around because like I lost my virginity and it was like game on.

Speaker 1 Like once I, once that, I went through like true love weights in the Baptist church too. And then I was like, all right.
kind of purity culture that people talk about. Like I went through that.

Speaker 1 And then once I messed that up, I was like, all right, game on.

Speaker 1 And then I kind of, when I went to college, I I thought, you know what? I'm going to get my act together. I'm going to, I'm going to straighten up.

Speaker 1 And I made all of these kind of, all these promises, like, hey, I'm not going to sleep around. I'm not going to do drugs.
I'm not going to party.

Speaker 1 I'm going to, I'm going to get serious about my faith and my, and my grades and all that. I go to college.
My parents drop me off at the apartment. They leave town.

Speaker 1 And just that sense of freedom set in, that like, that sense of rebellion that it's just like, oh, man,

Speaker 1 I'm free. Like, I can do whatever I want, whenever I want.
And so in the first two weeks of college, I broke all those rules in epic proportion. Wow.

Speaker 1 Slept around, experimented with hard drugs, partied, all the things.

Speaker 1 And I didn't know what to do. One night, I was saying my prayers as I always did, you know, as a good Catholic boy, I was like, Our Father, Hail Mary, kind of a made-up prayer, glory be.

Speaker 1 And I just started weeping. I'm in my twin-sized bed.
in my on-campus apartment, and I'm just weeping all by myself, just like bawling. And I just sense the God's not listening to me.

Speaker 1 Like, he doesn't hear me. My prayers are bouncing off the ceiling.
And I didn't know what to do. So I called someone, the only like person I knew to talk to that had, you know, kind of faith.

Speaker 1 And I just like confessed all my sins to them. Wow.
Which was not normal. I just said, this is everything I've done.
And I don't know what to do. And they just said, hey, that's just kind of college.

Speaker 1 And I was like, what do you mean? And I said, what about God? And they're like, oh, after college, you kind of get right with God.

Speaker 1 Terrible advice. Yeah.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So, but I took it and I just said, said, game on. And it was just kind of licensed to just continue in that rebellion.
Somehow I graduated.

Speaker 1 I moved to Dallas and I kind of became at this moment, my heart is so hardened.

Speaker 1 I became everything wrong with Dallas in a person. And because I grew up kind of poor, you know, lower, upper, upper, lower class, lower, middle class, I was like,

Speaker 1 I want to be a millionaire before I'm 30. Like,

Speaker 1 I'm pursuing the dollar.

Speaker 1 I landed this job in a Fortune Fortune 15 company, bought the penthouse condo in uptown, drove the Jaguar at the time, obnoxious car, and different suits for different days of the week, different watches for different days of the week, bottle service on the weekend, VIP membership to the club.

Speaker 1 And I'm just living that, that lifestyle. And I'm at a club 21 years ago.
And someone comes up to me that I met actually in Waco in college, because I went to college here in Waco, not Baylor. And

Speaker 1 they said, what are you doing this weekend? And I said, well, I'm,

Speaker 1 oh, actually, I said, what are you doing this weekend? And they said, we're going to go check out this church tomorrow. Wow.
Do you want to come? And it wasn't like, it wasn't even

Speaker 1 evangelistic. Like they were just, we were just talking, you know, leaning against a pool table upstairs in a club.
And

Speaker 1 she said, we're going to go check out this club. I said, I mean, this church.
And I said, great. I said, will you pick me up? My church sucks.
And that's what I said.

Speaker 1 And because I would sometimes go and just daydream in the back and just like feel bad for what I did the night before, you know?

Speaker 1 And so I go the next day, they pick me up, hungover, I'm sitting in the back row. I smell like smoke from the night before.
And I start wrestling. Well, what do I really believe about God?

Speaker 1 And I'm like,

Speaker 1 I begin to, I'm like, surely he's not the Christian God.

Speaker 1 Because I've always said I'm a Christian, but like, what are the odds I'd be born to the right country? Like, if I was born in India, I'd be Hindu. If I was born in China, I'd be Buddhist.

Speaker 1 If I was born in Iran, I'd be Muslim. If I was born in Israel, I might be Jewish.
You know, if I was born in Utah, I'd be Mormon. Like, what are the odds?

Speaker 1 I'd be born to the right place, the right family, to the right God? And so I buy this book on world religions, and I just start studying world religions.

Speaker 1 And I start thinking like, okay, I believe there's a creator. Like, I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.
Like, there's there's creation.

Speaker 1 Like, the universe operates more finely tuned than a than a Swiss watch. Like, sure, there's gravity that holds us just perfectly to the ground so that we we don't float off into space.

Speaker 1 And the earth is just the right amount of distance from the sun so that we don't burn up or freeze. And like, surely there's a creator, but who is he?

Speaker 1 And I started thinking, because agnostic is like, you can't know who he is. And I'm like, if he can create everything and if he can invent life, then surely

Speaker 1 that deity is strong enough to let me know who they are.

Speaker 1 And so as I'm researching this, I was really blown away by the evidence that supported the narrative of Jesus Christ, that 2,024 years ago, this man reset the calendar.

Speaker 1 So BC before Christ, AD is medieval Latin, Anno Domini, the year of our Lord. Like time started counting over again at his birth.
I'm like, who resets the calendar?

Speaker 1 And I was like, and he was born in Bethlehem and I know Bethlehem, but when I looked at Bethlehem, it's this really tiny city, you know,

Speaker 1 in the Middle East. I'm like, I wouldn't even know.

Speaker 1 there's much larger cities around there really tiny town much larger cities around there i've never heard of i only know of this town because he was born there and he was a carpenter and somehow he becomes the most polarizing character in the history of history well at this moment of my life i'm enslaved to pornography i'm addicted to sex i i love to party i i'm desperate to be a billionaire.

Speaker 1 Like I want to be as rich as I possibly can. I want to be able to buy whatever I want and go wherever I want.

Speaker 1 And I'm not like miserable, to be honest. I'm not like, oh, what is me, you know.
How old were you at this point? I was 22. Oh, wow.
Yeah, 22 years old.

Speaker 1 And so I'm like,

Speaker 1 and I'm, you know, and I love fun, all the things. But here, I kind of came to this place.
It's like, if there's truth, I want to know it.

Speaker 1 And if I'm going to die, I want to know what happens after I die.

Speaker 1 And I kept going to that church. I would just go by myself and I would just sit in the parking lot and cry and wrestle with God, feel bad for what I've done.

Speaker 1 And I came to the realization, like, it's Jesus. Like, and the narrative was, so I thought, okay, how do you get to heaven? You try to do good.
You believe in God and you try to do good.

Speaker 1 But I didn't realize like the crazy, it's the craziest narrative.

Speaker 1 And y'all know this, but it's like, it's like God came here, lived a perfect life, was brutally murdered on the side of the road in the most heinous way on a cross.

Speaker 1 Like they pinned him with nails and his hands and his feet on the side of the cross, naked as people walk by.

Speaker 1 They're mocking him and they spit on him and they pluck out his beard and they beat him and they stab him in the side. And like, that's our God.

Speaker 1 It's so crazy. Like, why? Why is that the story? And I realized, oh, that's, that's my sin being paid for.

Speaker 1 Like, and and so he goes in the grave and he comes out of the grave and that's the promise for me that I can live forever. And when I got that, and it's Ephesians 2, 8, 9, changed my life.

Speaker 1 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith. It's not of yourself.
It's the gift of God, not by works so that no one can boast. It's like, oh, it's grace.

Speaker 1 Grace is receiving more than you could ever deserve. You know, so like justice is when you get what you deserve.
Mercy is when you don't get what you deserve.

Speaker 1 Like, like, so if you deserve to go to prison, justice is you going to prison. Mercy is you not going to prison.
Grace is you getting a billion dollars and not going to prison.

Speaker 1 You know, it's like you deserve prison, but you get a reward. That's grace.
Well, I deserve death. I deserve hell.

Speaker 1 And I get to be in heaven and paradise with God forever and ever and ever because of his son. I don't have to pay for my sins.
Like, that's good news. That's why it's called the gospel.

Speaker 1 I go, that church I went to hungover. I go to the membership class.
I'm like, hey, I want to become a member here. My friend went with me.
He was like, we need someone to teach us the Bible.

Speaker 1 The guy that was teaching the class was like, hey, would you teach us the Bible? He said, sure. We sat down at a round table, Genesis 1, 1, in the beginning, God God created the heavens and the earth.

Speaker 1 And we're just going verse by verse through the Bible. And I start serving in that church under that person, that pastor.

Speaker 1 And five years in to being discipled, he said, hey, I have a job I want you to be, I want you to consider. I was like, man, I'll serve anywhere.
Like, tell me where. And he goes, no, like a job job.

Speaker 1 Like, I was like, where? At the church? And because I was like, you got to go to seminary to work at the church. He goes, yeah, no, no.
Like, man, I know this is crazy, but I think you're the guy.

Speaker 1 And so I go on staff at that church and they just began to pour into me and invest in me. And

Speaker 1 then one day they asked me to teach and then it's kind of from there on out. So that's, oh, I was, I left out one important part.
I was sitting at my desk at AT ⁇ T. This is crazy.
At AT ⁇ T?

Speaker 1 I was sitting at my desk and I hear the Lord say, you're going to come work for me.

Speaker 1 And I was like, what in the, I didn't even know what God's voice sounded like. I was like, what? It just startled me so much.
And I was like, what was that?

Speaker 1 I'm going to come work for you. What does that mean?

Speaker 1 And I go home and I'm going to start a nonprofit. I mean, I never considered the church.
I'm like, what am I going to do? You know, what do you mean, God? I'll raise money and give it away, I guess.

Speaker 1 And then five days later, that guy called and said, hey, I have a job I want you to consider. And I said, did you know five days ago? And he goes, no, I had no idea.

Speaker 1 I was just praying over this job description and I think you're the guy. And I said,

Speaker 1 I was like, this is crazy. So that's how that happened.

Speaker 2 This is like what why we do what we do. We just simply, even if we didn't have a camera on us, we just love hearing what Jesus does in other people's lives.

Speaker 2 And there's so many things that we can talk about, but I just, I even want to just talk about like God's grace. Because Ari and I, he did the same thing in your life where he

Speaker 2 always, he's so gracious that he always looks at us as

Speaker 2 the finished product.

Speaker 2 And he doesn't look at us as who we are in our sin and in the darkness and in the wrong that we're doing.

Speaker 2 And he saw you in all this sin and all this darkness and all, like, you're actively rejecting him, being like, I literally don't want anything to do with you.

Speaker 2 And he's looking at you being like, that's so funny because I'm actually going to make you the lead pastor at this church. And like, you're going to reach millions of people.

Speaker 2 And I always think about with me and Ari, even when we first started the podcast, where we didn't deserve, just like what you were saying, we deserved justice.

Speaker 2 We deserved to be punished for the things that we have done and were involved in.

Speaker 2 But he chose to be like, But I know who you're going to be, so let's focus on that person and just push you towards that person.

Speaker 1 I don't know. Whoever's been forgiven much loves much.
And I see that on your life, right? Just that heart for the lost, because you're like, hey, God can save anybody. And that's the narrative.

Speaker 1 It's so crazy how we get so

Speaker 1 like Pharisaical and, you know, prideful in our religion. The guy that led the rebellion against Jesus, like he's a terrorist.

Speaker 1 He literally is a terrorist. And it says when Stephen's died, he's stoned.
He's murdered right there publicly.

Speaker 1 He stands over his death and affirms it and then leads a revolt against Christianity, imprisoning, it says, women and children. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 And then God says,

Speaker 1 you're going to be the greatest missionary the world has ever seen.

Speaker 2 It's so cool.

Speaker 1 You know, like that's what he does. Yeah.
And so, yeah.

Speaker 2 I, you know, and I even want to speak to that about like having to do with Paul because I've seen you speak in person and I'm not going to say where, but I saw you speak somewhere and I remember seeing you, not to compare you to anyone else, but I remember watching you speak verse, watching other people speak.

Speaker 2 And I realized that what's effective in preaching the gospel is when your heart shines through. And I remember that you were the only person that got up there and didn't.

Speaker 2 And theology is incredibly important and we have to know everything and we have to be educated. But you were the only one who literally you got up there and you were like, this is who I am.

Speaker 2 This is who I've been. And this is what Jesus did in my life.
You're the only one who like showed up with your heart. And by seeing your heart, we saw the heart of God through that.

Speaker 2 And I think about how like Paul,

Speaker 2 usually every time he addresses anybody or he like has to do a speech or tell people, this is why you should believe in Jesus, basically.

Speaker 2 He always starts out with his story, being like, I actually was somebody who persecuted and killed Christians, but then I had a revelation of Jesus being the Messiah, and now this is why I believe.

Speaker 2 So, he always comes from a place of relatability and, like, this is where I've been. So, I'm not judging you, but I'm telling you that this is who you can become through Jesus.

Speaker 2 And that's what you do all the time. Yeah,

Speaker 1 thank you. Thank you so much, Angela, for the encouragement.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Paul says, I've become all things to all all people, so that by all means I might save some.

Speaker 1 And so he takes what is available to him

Speaker 1 and he leverages it for the sake of the kingdom. And that's what I would say to your listeners: like, God has given you something, a talent, a skill.

Speaker 1 Like, if you have the Holy Spirit, you're a believer, the Holy Spirit then gives you gifts to be deployed in the local church that you would use those gifts and leverage them for the kingdom.

Speaker 1 And so, you guys, I mean, so y'all, you have relationships in a particular place, place. You have past work experiences.
You have gifts that God has entrusted to you. And you say, you know what?

Speaker 1 And you have a partnership and a friendship. And you're like, hey, let's do this.
Let's just take the talents we have and do a podcast. And God says, all right.
I'm going to bless that.

Speaker 1 I'm going to multiply that in the kingdom. Well, all of that is available to your viewers as well.
Like

Speaker 1 they have gifts and talents to be leveraged to use for the kingdom. And you asked about seminary.
Like every single time I wanted to go to seminary, and there were multiple times to go for free.

Speaker 1 Someone said, hey, you can do this. Here's an easy path.
Hey, here's how you can get a degree. Hey, we'll pay for it.

Speaker 1 And every time I was like, I went to my life group, my small group, and I just said, would you guys, I think I'm going to go to seminary. I want to.
I just don't want the fact that I don't have a...

Speaker 1 theological degree to be a hindrance to someone coming to the faith. And every time we prayed, multiple times, it was just a really clear no.

Speaker 1 And I heard the Lord say, I want you to remove their excuse. And I want to be careful how I say this because

Speaker 1 it can sound boastful.

Speaker 1 I am not smart. Meaning like in the traditional sense, like IQ, I don't like to read.
I struggle to read.

Speaker 1 It is a real chore to read anything, including the scriptures, for that matter.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 so, and like i've learned the bible the 66 books of the bible you know written over 1500 years by 40 different authors on three continents in three languages with one central theme of god getting his children back through his son jesus christ and and as i'm as i'm learning that it's like if i can learn it anybody can know if i can know the word anybody can know the word and so he's just like i just want you to take away their excuse

Speaker 1 i want i want you to teach the word in a way that they they they can't say well surely you know it because you have your MDiv or your THM or

Speaker 1 you went through to this school and education and university trained. It's like, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 Just the Word and God's people. And that is available to anybody watching right now, anybody listening right now.

Speaker 2 God, I love that so much.

Speaker 1 That was so good.

Speaker 2 That's how I felt too.

Speaker 3 I always had trouble just learning and I didn't think I was qualified. And I always say that to the listeners: if I can learn, anyone can learn.
Sure.

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Speaker 3 we wanted to talk a little bit because i know it's hard as a man with sin and so i wanted we wanted to ask you about sin and you said something and it was like you can't possibly be in peace when you know you're breaking god's heart i love that you say that and i just wanted to know how did you was it just one day you had that awakening and stopped can you talk about a little bit about it?

Speaker 2 Yeah, that process in your sanctification.

Speaker 1 There were things that went away.

Speaker 1 There were things that went away immediately. Like the Holy Spirit just took them away.
And

Speaker 1 I cussed like a sailor at the time. And I just remember, like, if I, if the F word came out, I felt bad.
I was instantly convicted. And I would read verses like Ephesians 4:29.

Speaker 1 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouth, but only what is helpful for building others up so that it may benefit those who listen. And like God just showed me that.

Speaker 1 And I had done Coke, you know, I had done

Speaker 1 MDMA, ecstasy.

Speaker 1 Nothing gripped my life like pornography and lust.

Speaker 1 And so that was the thing that was just really slow to die. And it felt like, and I tried to rationalize it.
And then we got married.

Speaker 1 And I remember asking a pastor, and I'm just like, you know, I was like, hey, is it okay if my wife and I look at this together?

Speaker 1 Because I just didn't know. I was like, is this okay? And I didn't realize

Speaker 1 how much that sin had gripped me. And I was trying to find any justification to continue in my habit.
And I always say, like, an addiction to porn is not an addiction to sex.

Speaker 1 It's an addiction to variety. It is systematically training you to objectify not just people,

Speaker 1 but the act of sex, the gift of sex. And so that was slow.
And it only, you know, Jesus says this one only comes out with prayer and fasting. They're like, why couldn't we heal this man?

Speaker 1 He's like, this kind only comes out with prayer and fasting.

Speaker 1 I think there's something to that because then in James chapter 5, verse 16, it says, confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.

Speaker 1 For the prayers of a righteous person are powerful and effective. And what the scripture is telling us is

Speaker 1 there is a kind of sin that you will only experience healing from by confessing it and having others pray

Speaker 1 over you consistently.

Speaker 1 And that's what pornography was for me as I would have to go. And I learned, you know, over time with strong believers in my life to confess at the thought level.

Speaker 1 So one time, like, you know, early on, you do something stupid, you look at something you shouldn't, and then you confess it, and people pray for you, and they offer you accountability.

Speaker 1 But if you can back that confession up, to, hey, guys, right now I want to look at it.

Speaker 1 I want to go here. Would you pray for me now? Because right now I'm tempted.
If you can confess at the thought level, that's a game changer. Like that is a path to victory.

Speaker 1 And so yeah, and you know, and then there was, you know, there's other times like

Speaker 1 I drank. And so I go from, you know, drinking to get drunk for a long time.
And then realizing, hey, I don't think drinking in all situations is a sin. I think drunkenness is a sin.

Speaker 1 But that there would be times where I wouldn't know my limits.

Speaker 1 And, and, and I would, I would like, hey, last night I went out, had a margarita, but one turned to three, and then I realized, like, I'm, hey, I'm, I'm, you know, where's that line? Am I buzzed?

Speaker 1 Am I drunk? I don't know, but I just, I think I sinned against God. And people would, and I would, they would receive prayer.
And so then I would say the confession,

Speaker 1 hey, tonight I'm going out with my friend for, you know, Tex-Mex, and I may have margarita, but I'm, I'm asking, I'm telling you right now, it's just going to be one.

Speaker 1 And I would have to, like, I would have to have accountability on the front end and confess things on the front end and have people pray for me on the front end.

Speaker 1 And then it just, you know, as over time, that was a healing. It's not like I don't struggle.
Real, real talk.

Speaker 1 Someone asked,

Speaker 1 you know, they knew I was going to be on the show and they said, is Monica okay with that? You know, talking about it with you guys and

Speaker 1 my wife.

Speaker 2 She's literally the cutest thing I've ever seen. I can't wait to meet her.

Speaker 1 And extremely secure, you know, and extremely secure. But it's like, sure, it's like,

Speaker 1 I want

Speaker 1 people aware and praying for me. And, you know, and just like at all times.

Speaker 1 And, you know, even to now in ministry being a pastor, it's like, I don't want to travel alone.

Speaker 1 I want people asking me hard questions. So when I get back and someone says, hey, did you look at anything?

Speaker 1 Did you watch anything you shouldn't have? Are you lying to me? Are you lying to me about lying to me? I don't feel attacked in that.

Speaker 1 I feel loved and cared for in that. And I'm like, would you please do that? Would you please ask me? Because at this point, I want the ministry protected.

Speaker 1 Because listen, just like you, there's a giant target on anybody who is making their primary focus, vocation, and living off of telling others about Jesus and building the kingdom.

Speaker 1 And there's a war against that right now on earth.

Speaker 1 And so we have to pray and be protected.

Speaker 2 Definitely.

Speaker 2 I mean, mean, we, there's so much to talk about from all that you just said, but Ari and I, we know that stepping out on a public platform and talking about Jesus, like the warfare that we've, I mean, we look back on our life and I understand why, because I'm four years sober.

Speaker 2 I don't know if you know that, but I had like a massive

Speaker 2 thank you so much. I had a massive, truly, praise God, truly.
I had a, I, I just, I struggled all my life with just an addictive personality.

Speaker 2 Like anything that I could find a vice in it like even something harmless for me I can make a vice out of it you know what I mean I have to be very conscious about like and aware of of of even things like eating habits and being like am I getting too obsessive with this or is this becoming a thing more than it should and

Speaker 2 So basically, I started drinking a lot because I experienced such horrific panic attacks, so much fear. Like I would experience that, like just fear would take over my body.

Speaker 2 And I didn't have the language to put to it.

Speaker 2 I didn't know about spiritual warfare, but I look back and I know that the enemy was just, he was trying so hard to make me such a small version of myself that would never go out and do anything for Jesus.

Speaker 2 And then we started a public ministry, honestly, like by accident. And we're very aware of like the enemy hates us and he hates what we're doing.
And so we have...

Speaker 2 We have to be more spiritually aware than ever and more careful than ever. I mean, we're we're to the point where we are so

Speaker 2 we're scared to take even the tiniest step away from Jesus. Even one F word scares me to say because I'm scared of separating from him because I don't know what's going to happen if that happens.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? Totally. Any sin, I'm just like, I can't do it because I can't afford it.

Speaker 2 You know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. I mean, I thought about that this morning.
I woke up this morning and was praying over the day and

Speaker 1 all that would happen. And

Speaker 1 I just thought about the spiritual warfare against this and not to be like,

Speaker 1 not to be egocentric and think, oh, you know, the kingdom needed this podcast or anything like that. But it was just, this was hard.
It was hard. No, no, no.
You guys don't know what happened.

Speaker 2 Guys, please, Ari and I, we had a red eye on Sunday night, 12:45. We get there early because we didn't, because we've been missing flights lately.
I don't want to talk about it.

Speaker 2 We are, we're in the airport until six o'clock in the morning. Our flight gets delayed and delayed and delayed.
We were supposed to record with JP yesterday.

Speaker 2 I'm texting you and the team at like three o'clock in the morning, emailing so dramatic. I was so tired.
I was like, guys, we're not going to make it.

Speaker 2 And then we ended up, he has to go on like a three-day conference trip, poor guy. He was just doing a conference.

Speaker 2 Like, we were able to make this happen, but there was so much opposition just against this podcast, not to over-spiritualize it, but there really was.

Speaker 1 So we're all going on very little sleep. Do not

Speaker 1 hold our words against us. I know.
But yeah, so in the throes of trying. So if I go back to that moment,

Speaker 1 I'm a believer, I'm in the church, I'm in a small group, and some things have just, like the Holy Spirit just changed, and I'm in this process of sanctification. I love the way you started.
Like, hey,

Speaker 1 we're being changed.

Speaker 1 We're going to meet you wherever you're at, but we're going to ask you not to stay there because the Holy Spirit means change.

Speaker 1 Like God is changing us and conforming us to the image and the character of his Son, Jesus Christ. And so we're all in that process.
Well, I'm at the beginning of that process. And

Speaker 1 I had heard there's no greater way to overcome sin than to find a superior satisfaction in Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 Now, that just sounds so churchy. I mean, it was like soul-stirring, and I'm like,

Speaker 1 that's good. Let me think about what that means.
There's no greater way to overcome sin than to find a superior satisfaction in Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 And I'm driving down the road, and I'm just like worshiping in my car,

Speaker 1 and I am

Speaker 1 experiencing like I I feel Christ is close, you know, like we're, it's the intimacy. And there's this ad, like this billboard for this adult bookstore that's just right there on the highway.

Speaker 1 And, and, and this beautiful woman wearing very little clothes on it.

Speaker 1 And I'm, and every day, like at the end of the day, I would look at that, you know, because that's just, I had, that's what I had done. I was just lost in my sin.

Speaker 1 And on this particular day,

Speaker 1 I was approaching it and I was just like, it's not worth it.

Speaker 1 It's not worth it.

Speaker 1 It's not worth compromising this. Kind of the like, hey, I'm afraid of one little F-word.

Speaker 1 And I think that is, and people say, well, you shouldn't be afraid. You know, perfect love casts out fear.
I'm like, no, no, the fear of God is the fear of being separated from Him.

Speaker 1 And while we're not separated from Him, because He says in Romans, neither height nor death nor nothing in all of creation will separate us from the love of God, Romans 8.

Speaker 1 We do experience a loss of intimacy when we give into sin. Like we can't, you cannot pursue Christ and

Speaker 1 sin at the same time. You can't grow closer to Jesus in your sin.
So if you're sleeping around right now

Speaker 1 and you're like, I just don't know why God feels so far.

Speaker 1 If you're

Speaker 1 pursuing some, any kind of substance right now to alter your mind, right? And you're like, I just don't know why God feels so far. I don't know why I'm experiencing anxiety.

Speaker 1 I don't know why I'm experiencing panic. It's like, listen, we go here.

Speaker 1 I'm a pastor at a church. Like I teach the Bible for a living, but I had just started writing books.
And I tell my guys, my small group, I'm like,

Speaker 1 I feel

Speaker 1 a spiritual ego.

Speaker 1 Like, I think I'm growing prideful. I need y'all to pray for me because I feel like...
like I'm starting to believe the hype.

Speaker 1 I think I'm a big deal or something. And would y'all pray for me

Speaker 1 and and i'm doing so much i'm running and speaking at this church and going on this podcast and doing these things and and man i like feel this tingling sensation in my head

Speaker 1 and i'm like what is that and and then my heart starts skipping beats and i end up and and then i'm driving down the road and my left arm goes numb and i'm like i'm having a heart attack like i'm i'm about to die like i'm not going to be able to walk my daughters down the aisle like what in the world is happening to me right now

Speaker 1 go to the emergency room and, and I would try to go to, I couldn't sleep. I'd try to go to sleep, and it would felt like lightning struck me.
I'd jump up in a panic attack.

Speaker 1 And, and it was, it was, it's the same thing. It can happen.
It's not like once you become a Christian, like now you're safeguarded from all of that.

Speaker 1 No, at any moment, you, you know, it's like whack-a-mole.

Speaker 1 Like, sin is always coming after you. There's always an option to sin.
And so at that moment in my life, it wasn't porn. It wasn't alcohol.
It wasn't drugs. It wasn't sex outside of my marriage.

Speaker 1 It was pride and ego and arrogance.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 that's what caused it. And it's like, okay, I've got to slow down.
Stop. I've got to deal with that.
What is at the root of all of this? And I'm not saying that your anxiety is

Speaker 1 always the result of sin. There can be a lot of things that cause that, like a brain injury.
for example but in my case it was yeah and in my situation it certainly was yeah absolutely absolutely.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 we had Jenny Allen on, and she was talking about her. She's so, she's so, we love her so much.
But she was talking about how

Speaker 2 she was talking about how...

Speaker 2 Like, of course you can have depression and anxiety for a multitude of reasons. Like, I mean, genetic, it could be hereditary, brain damage, like you said, but so much of it is sin.

Speaker 2 And Ari and I experienced that.

Speaker 2 I mean, it was the craziest thing to finally enter a relationship with Jesus and be like oh yeah that's why I'm having panic attacks all day because I'm treating my body like garbage I'm literally abusing alcohol and substances and being involved in things that I should not be involved in and then I'm wondering why my life is absolute chaos and destruction of course it is yeah Have you seen that TikTok where it's like, I can't remember how it starts.

Speaker 1 It's like,

Speaker 1 man, I just, I don't know why I feel so bad. And it's like, whoa, did you get, you know, are you eating? No.
Did you get enough water? No. Did you sleep? No.
Yeah. Did you work out? No.

Speaker 1 Did you do that? It's so true. It's so true.
It's like there's like a Christian version of that. It's like, I just don't know why God feels so far right now.

Speaker 1 It's like, well, are you spending time in the scriptures? No. Are you spending time in prayer? No.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 It's so good.

Speaker 2 I did want to ask you because porn is something that we've been wanting to talk about for a while. And it's not

Speaker 2 something that,

Speaker 2 you know, we've necessarily struggled with like that.

Speaker 2 So it's hard to talk about because we want a somebody to be able to speak from experience but I was even talking to I was talking to Ari and Maddie last night and we were talking about porn and about men and I just want you to speak to this especially for the guys because we do have a large male audience

Speaker 2 Why tell us why porn is bad?

Speaker 2 Because from my understanding, one of the main reasons why porn makes men so weak, because that's what it does, it makes them incredibly weak, is because you get the reward without having to actually pursue or work for anything.

Speaker 1 What's what you're seeing in the world today? It's why

Speaker 1 it's why we're getting married less, we're getting married later, and marriages aren't lasting because the whole gaming culture and the whole porn culture,

Speaker 1 you know, it's an aspect of technology is rewarding the shortcut. And so, guys have no idea how to pursue a girl.

Speaker 1 Like, they, I mean, they, it's moved from, you know, face to face, here's some flowers. Would you,

Speaker 1 you know, may I take you out on Tuesday to an explicit text message? Because they have no idea

Speaker 1 how to engage a woman. I mean, they literally don't know how.

Speaker 1 And the root cause of that is absolutely pornography. And so we're going to go

Speaker 1 to a an honest, we're going to have an honest conversation. And between two women in a studio, people are going to be like, that's weird.

Speaker 1 Let me just say, got other people people behind the cameras you can't see in the room with us.

Speaker 1 And here's what I would say is pornography and masturbation is the highest high, I'm saying in air quotes, the highest high that you can experience naturally. This is God's design.

Speaker 1 God said thousands and thousands of years ago,

Speaker 1 in the second chapter of the very first First book of the Bible, he says, for this reason, a man will leave his father and mother, be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.

Speaker 1 So that's a weird language. Two people becoming one flesh.
What's he saying there?

Speaker 1 Now, 2024, secular science, psychology, psychiatry would say that when you experience release climax orgasm, if I can say that word, when you experience that, your brain creates a synapse.

Speaker 1 A synapse is like a muscle. Your brain is bonding you to your surroundings.
And so God invented sex. Like sex is his invention.

Speaker 1 Father, Son, and Holy Spirit saying, hey, we're going to create the parts. We're going to make them function the way they do, fit the way they do.

Speaker 1 We're going to put the nerve endings where they are so that it feels the way that it does. God made sex feel good.
That was his,

Speaker 1 like in the same way that Steve Jobs invented the iPhone, God invented sex. In the same way that Elon Musk invented Tesla, God invented sex.
He said, hey, this is... This is what, well, why, God?

Speaker 1 Why did you do that?

Speaker 1 It's really clear. It's obvious once you think about it.
He said, because I want to, the first great commission, fill the earth and multiply it.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, fill the earth and subdue it.

Speaker 1 Be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth and subdue it. Sorry.
Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and subdue it.
He's saying, hey, I want you to know me.

Speaker 1 I want you to come together, have babies, and raise those babies to know me. Fill the earth with my people.
This is God. This is the first great commission, not Matthew 28.
It starts in Genesis.

Speaker 1 Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth with my people.

Speaker 1 And so he says, The way that you do that is when a man and a woman come together and they experience intimacy, life is born. And you can literally have the ability to grow a human.

Speaker 1 It's unbelievable, right? Like you can grow a human being, and then you can raise that human being in a home, in a God-ordained institution of the home, and then you make disciples.

Speaker 1 You literally create them. You make disciples.

Speaker 1 And then also, the other reason that he makes sex is to bond a husband to his wife and a wife to her husband so that as they come together, that they, the marriage is safeguarded.

Speaker 1 And as they experience intimacy in that way, then she remains the epitome of attraction to him. And he remains the epitome of attraction to her.

Speaker 1 Because you're always like, I always ask young adults, I'm like, hey, are you attracted to an 80-year-old?

Speaker 1 And you're like, no, ooh, that's gross. You got to understand, one day you're going to be 80, God willing, willing, and your spouse is going to be 80.

Speaker 1 And hopefully, at 80, you can still experience intimacy, God willing, right? And that's still the attractive. You're still going to be attracted to the 23-year-old co-ed, right?

Speaker 1 That's still a thing.

Speaker 1 But if you have safeguarded the marriage and you've stayed together and you've only pursued each other, then that marriage is a safe place for you to experience intimacy. This is God's design.

Speaker 1 Now, imagine what happens when you introduce pornography. I told you, pornography, it's not an addiction to sex.
It's an addiction to variety. So for the porn addict, there's no hope for monogamy.

Speaker 1 A porn addict cannot be satisfied in a committed relationship. They just can't because they've gone to the classroom, Psych 101, the university.

Speaker 1 They've reconditioned and retrained their brain. They've retrained the pathways.

Speaker 1 They've retrained the synapses to bond to a two-dimensional image or a video over and over and over and over and over again so that when they get in a marriage, it's not sticky.

Speaker 1 So for me, I married Monica. We're believers now.
We became Christians. We had had sex before marriage and then we became Christians.
And it was like, man, pull the parking brake on that.

Speaker 1 We're not going to do that. Yeah, we're not going to have sex anymore.
And I was like, oh, this is really difficult. We should get married.
It's not super romantic.

Speaker 1 But I was like, we should get married.

Speaker 1 And so we get married. And,

Speaker 1 you know, and it's a Christian wedding. And like, we love Jesus at this time in our lives.

Speaker 1 And we go and the preacher says, makes us, or has us say these crazy promises for rich or poor, sickness and health till death do us part. I will love you the rest of my life.

Speaker 1 We kiss, we walk down the aisle. I hold her in my arms.
She's in her white wedding dress. I'm in my tucks.
I hold her in my arms. And I say this prayer.
back of the foyer of the chapel.

Speaker 1 God, thank you for allowing me to escape the consequences of my sins.

Speaker 1 And what I meant when I said that was like, even though I had looked at porn and even though I was promiscuous, like I still got married and I'm like, I got the reward. Like, look, look at me.

Speaker 1 And I realized a year into marriage, first year is honeymoon is all good.

Speaker 1 And then second year, I realized I didn't escape the consequences because I had thought consequences like an STD or

Speaker 1 a child out of wedlock or, you know, a psycho ex-girlfriend wanting to kill me, you know, something like that. And I'm a year and I know that people have those consequences.

Speaker 1 Well, what's crazy is I would have rather had those consequences. I would have had much rather had to take a pill or to support a child or to dodge the bullets.

Speaker 1 Because I'm stuck in this marriage and I don't know how to be married

Speaker 1 because I've systematically trained my brain toward variety for years since the fifth grade.

Speaker 1 Since the fifth grade. And now I'm in a marriage and I'm like, I don't know what to do.
I feel so stuck.

Speaker 1 I don't know that I love you. I don't think you love me.
We both went out. You know, divorce is on the table.
And praise God, like he put believers around us to help us navigate that.

Speaker 1 But then it was a long path of recovery. And so people are like, oh, you know, you look at porn and you think, oh, it's no big deal.
It's like, no,

Speaker 1 we have no idea. how big of a deal it is.
And I'm not trying to scare you.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to present reality to you so that you pursue recovery now, today.

Speaker 1 Because before you get into a marriage, you've got to find healing. I mean, you need James 5, 16, healing from that.
Otherwise, it's going to impact not just you, but your spouse and your children.

Speaker 1 And this is not just a male problem.

Speaker 1 One in three viewers of pornography are female. And I talk to female.
I talk to women all the time. time that are like, man, nobody's talking about it.
I'm like, listen, we got to talk about it.

Speaker 3 I mean people are in bondage to this stuff do you feel like the the pornography and the masturbation also opens demonic doors sure

Speaker 1 any any sin i think any so it says in ephesians 4 do not give the devil a foothold

Speaker 1 what you do when you so it's like right now like with pornography being a temptation for me it's like i've got that door shut i've deadbolted it i've locked it i've got my back against it you know and and satan's on the other side of that door.

Speaker 1 And it's like, if I'm scrolling through Instagram and I click on hashtag and then I'm like, oh, I wonder where this will go.

Speaker 1 And, you know, hoping in the back of my mind that it's going to go somewhere, you know, nudity.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I look at something that I shouldn't look at. What I just did is I just slowly,

Speaker 1 I undid the deadbolt, I undid the chain, you know, and I turned the knob and I just cracked the door open.

Speaker 1 And I was like, hey, here I am. Come get me.
It's

Speaker 1 easy. And so absolutely, like, we all have demonic forces pursuing us all the time.
And they have strategies against us. They've studied us.

Speaker 1 They've studied humans since creation.

Speaker 1 And they, you know, you probably have one

Speaker 1 assigned to you that is potentially assigned to multiple people.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 they've studied you, you know, and they're, and they, they, there's a war against you. So, absolutely, that's why, like, prayer is our weapon, and the word, the scripture is our weapon.

Speaker 1 You know, 1 Corinthians 6, flee sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually sins against their own body.

Speaker 1 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you've received from God? You are not your own. You've been bought by price.

Speaker 1 Therefore, honor God with your body. 1 Thessalonians 4.
Learn to control your body in a way that is holy and honorable before the Lord.

Speaker 1 1 Peter 5, you know, abstain from the war, the sin that wages war against you. Job 31, 1, I've made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at another woman.
Like these are your weapons.

Speaker 1 Wow, yeah. These are your weapons.
You have to know them and fight with them because it's a spiritual war, so you have to have spiritual weapons.

Speaker 2 Thank you, Jesus.

Speaker 2 And it is, I mean, just this area of our lives, like being able to really let Jesus work in us and do like a true purification and truly like start in the heart and not just like not sinning but having a pure heart and clean hands has radically transformed our lives and the quality of our life and the peace that we have like it's it's just so worth pursuing purity in this way porn is so bad it's so bad and i just i pray that everybody is able to find the community that can pray over them and that we all do start confessing the sins that we don't tell people we have to have a whole episode on how important it is to confess because you can't, it's nearly impossible to get over something, to get delivered from something when nobody knows about it.

Speaker 1 Put the strongest believers you know on a group text right now. Just put the strongest believers you know on a group text and

Speaker 1 just say, hey, would you pray for me in this area of my life and confess something to them? And then follow it up with, hey, can we meet up? and pray at this day and time.

Speaker 1 And like right there, that's the beginning of a path of healing for each of you. You know, it's like that's a really simple step you can take right now.

Speaker 1 Let's do that. I'm like, let's do that.
I'm thinking of Miami with your own group chat.

Speaker 2 We're each other's group chat. You should see us all day long calling each other out.
We're just like, we don't let each other get away with anything.

Speaker 2 But I, okay, so last thing I want to talk about because you and Monica have been married for how long? 20 years.

Speaker 1 20 years. Wow.

Speaker 2 I am so, like, she is so, so beautiful.

Speaker 2 And like, you guys, just what you shared with us today and you're so vulnerable to tell us that it was hard and you've had hard moments and you had to fight through it.

Speaker 2 And especially the consequences of sin then like being dragged into your marriage and like the baggage that comes with that.

Speaker 2 How, I just, I want to ask, because I heard you say something along the lines of,

Speaker 2 it was a clip and you were like.

Speaker 2 My advice to young people is basically find the godliest person you know and then just go marry them.

Speaker 2 And I think that's really good advice. I think that's honestly the closer that I've...

Speaker 1 I get killed for it, but whatever. Okay, like, no,

Speaker 2 the closer that I get to Jesus, and okay, you've said something else because JP does, you guys need to follow Jonathan on Instagram because he does these Q ⁇ As and you do them every, like, every Friday.

Speaker 2 Every Friday, and they're so, they're genuinely so helpful. And you said something like, oh, God, I just lost it.
What was it?

Speaker 2 You said something. Oh, somebody asked, like, should I be dating if I'm not ready for marriage? And you were like, if you're not ready for marriage, like, why would you date?

Speaker 2 That doesn't even make sense. And you're basically saying that people should not be in these like four or five year long relationships, not getting married.
Like, either get married or don't date.

Speaker 2 And Ari and I obviously come from like very worldly dating and like we weren't, you know, dating the way that God intended us to.

Speaker 2 And I have been in four-year relationships, three-year relationships, five-year since I was was like 15 years old. And now I'm literally like,

Speaker 2 I wouldn't even consider dating someone for, I won't even date somebody unless I think we might get married. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Now that I'm actually walking with Jesus, there's just not a chance that I'm just in this relationship and possibly not getting married.

Speaker 1 Okay, so this is going to be really radical to some of your viewers and listeners.

Speaker 1 And so I just

Speaker 1 pray through it, give consideration to it.

Speaker 1 I'm approaching this with logic.

Speaker 1 Dating, as we know and understand it, is a very new phenomenon, very modern. About 120 years old, the word dating entered the English language as a euphemism for prostitution.
It was on a radio show.

Speaker 1 A guy said, she's turning dates, meaning she's sleeping with other guys, is what he said. And that was the first time that word was ever used in the English language.
And then that became dating.

Speaker 1 120 years ago, prior to that, it really exploded with the invention of the automobile. So before that, you know, you would date on the front porch or you would date in the living room with the family.

Speaker 1 You know, somebody would come over and it's like, hey, this is my family. And you'd meet the family and you'd hang out and maybe play a game or something.

Speaker 1 Well, now it's like back of a movie theater or a dinner at your apartment. And so our whole dating culture has been hyper-sexualized.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 so,

Speaker 1 you know, prior to 120 years ago, and the only example we have in the scripture is arranged marriage. And so what that looks like today, you say, hey, are you a pro-arranged marriage?

Speaker 1 I would say I am with an asterisk.

Speaker 1 Meaning what I mean by that is in Song of Solomon, chapter 1, verse 4, it says their friends praised their love more than wine, more than the party, that everyone came around and said, these two belong together.

Speaker 1 That makes sense.

Speaker 1 And dating, it's... It's a really pragmatic marriage, rather, is really pragmatic.
It's a metaphor, Ephesians 5, husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her.

Speaker 1 He talks about husbands, wives, church, Christ. He says, this is the profound mystery that I'm presenting to you.
I'm not really talking about marriage.

Speaker 1 I'm talking about Jesus and his bride, the church.

Speaker 1 So God gives us marriage to teach us about the way that Jesus is going to love his church and lay his life down, or has laid down his life for his bride, the church, the church's Jesus followers.

Speaker 1 So this is the story of scripture. And so I've got daughters in high school, right? I mean, they are,

Speaker 1 you know, boys ask them out, all the things, right? And we, so we have to talk about this.

Speaker 1 And it's really challenging because I'm like, hey, you dating right now, it's probably, most likely, a guaranteed heartbreak.

Speaker 1 Like, that's where this goes is you begin to meet with someone, you like them a whole lot, and then either your feelings change or their feelings change or something else happens.

Speaker 1 But statistically, it's very unlikely that this relationship in your junior year of high school or your freshman year of high school is going to turn into marriage.

Speaker 1 And so dating, like, it was never meant to be this thing that we just do for sport or fun. It just,

Speaker 1 nowhere in the scripture are you going to find that, but that's modern place today. Like, that's just the way that we date.
And so I would say it depends on what you mean by dating.

Speaker 1 If you mean going on a relationship with a friend of the opposite sex to learn how to treat them, to be kind to them, to care for them, to leave them better than you found them, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 If you mean by dating, playing married, like, hey, I'm in a committed relationship, I'm handing my heart over on a platter, and I'm going to, you know, tell them I love them, and we're going to make out.

Speaker 1 And then you're going to go through, there's a really good chance that you're going to go through a divorce.

Speaker 1 I mean, the statistics around cohabitation, people that move in together before marriage and actually have a healthy marriage, it is unbelievably low. One statistic I looked at was at 2%.

Speaker 1 98% of those do not end in happy marriages.

Speaker 1 Wow. That's mind-blowing.
Like, who's talking about that? So I'm just like, we've got to do, we've got to find a new way. We have to find a new way to find someone forever, you know,

Speaker 1 our spouse, if you will.

Speaker 3 Gosh, so much.

Speaker 2 We could literally go all day.

Speaker 1 So, guys, find the godliest girl you know

Speaker 1 and ask her out. Because, you know, charm is deceitful, beauty is fleeting.
A woman who fears the Lord is to be praised.

Speaker 1 Like, this is what the book of wisdom tells you in the most important book that has ever been written.

Speaker 2 Amen. Amen.

Speaker 2 Thank you, Jonathan.

Speaker 1 We could

Speaker 1 appreciate you so much.

Speaker 1 Thank y'all for making it happen.

Speaker 2 Of course. We'll have another conversation one day, hopefully.
For the best. Please.
Guys, follow Jonathan on everything. You truly won't regret it.
Watch all of his sermons.

Speaker 2 Listen to his Q ⁇ As that he does. Get his book.
Get his book. So kind.

Speaker 1 Why do I do what I don't want to do?

Speaker 2 We need to read this.

Speaker 1 Reading it today.

Speaker 2 Okay, thank you so much. Guys, we love you so, so much.
May the Lord bless you and keep you. May he make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you.

Speaker 2 May he turn his face towards you and give you all peace and self-control. In Jesus' name we pray.

Speaker 1 We love you guys. Amen.