Michael & Jessica Koulianos | Girls Gone Bible

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Hi, I'm Mange.

And I'm Ari.

And this is Girls Gone Bible.

And we are not even going to pretend to have a little intro today because this is an insane day, a beautiful day.

I am about to get wrecked emotionally because today we have pastors Michael and Jessica Kuyanos with us.

Guys, thank you so much for being here.

I'm so happy to be here.

I just want to tell you that from the very beginning,

this has been like the one thing that if you guys came on Girls Gone Bible, it would fill just so much of my heart because of who you have both been to me and my faith and to Ari.

And we just want to honor you guys before we even start.

Pastors Michael and Jessica are the pastors of Jesus Image Church in Orlando, Florida.

They also are doing a lot in Orange County, California, so we kind of have them with us in California sometimes.

And I just want to say to both of you, thank you for your ministry, for the way that you love Jesus, for the way that you shepherd your people, God's people.

Everything I've learned has been from you guys.

I started in ministry having no mentors, no one to look to, no one to learn learn from, and just kind of being like, Jesus, I have no idea why I'm here or why this is happening and I don't really know what to do.

Tuning in to Jesus Image every Sunday for years.

My first time, really?

My first time coming to Jesus Image was in 2023 with my family, and my family experienced a miracle over the phone within 10 minutes of being at Jesus' image.

Somebody who we love dearly was in jail and we were praying for the longest time for breakthrough.

And within 10 minutes of being at Jesus' image, we get a call saying that they're coming out.

And so I'll never forget me and my mom,

we fall to our knees in the middle of your church service and we're just like, Jesus, you're in this place.

And so I learned all about the presence of God.

through Jesus' image.

I learned what it really meant to seek the Lord's face, to seek the presence of Jesus, and not to settle for anything less.

And

we, Ari and I went on tour, and it was a really interesting experience because we went on a live podcast tour.

And we felt the Lord be like, this isn't just a live podcast tour.

Like, you're here to minister to people, to preach the gospel, and to get people saved.

You're not doing a little live podcast tour.

And so I'm like, okay, Lord, then what does that mean?

What do you want us to do?

And I look to you guys.

We study Jesus' image.

We watch every Sunday.

And you guys taught me how to pray for healing, how to release words of knowledge, how to lead a room into an encounter with the real, true, living Jesus Christ.

So we want to honor you guys.

Thank you.

Thank you, Lord.

Thank you.

Thank you for being here.

Every Sunday,

I get absolutely wrecked by the presence of God through the TV.

Wow.

And so you guys have changed our life through your ministry.

We can't thank you enough.

Thank you.

Wow.

Thank the Lord.

Yeah, thank you, Chiva.

It's a privilege to have you here with us.

Yeah.

It's an honor to have you here.

So, Chivas, thanks.

I don't know what to say.

All glory to the Lord.

Well, Girls Gone Bible is what it is today because of you guys.

I hope you take that as a compliment.

We do.

He might not, but I do.

Why wouldn't I not?

Oh, there's a bunch of girls, a bunch of girls.

Oh, oh.

This is my first podcast with three girls.

Yeah, I was saying, you guys don't do podcasts, so this is like, listen,

you don't really do podcasts.

I just did i did one with rich recently

i only saw that i was laughing the whole time that was fun that was funny yeah

yeah but no i mean i i can sense hunger on both of you and uh

i know that you angela have been flying in to come to church and and uh it's really humbling i don't really have words other than when the lord comes he draws people and

I think in our early days, we probably thought he was coming because we were doing all these, all the right things.

And I think there's truth to that biblically.

Like you do have to follow his pattern.

But at the end of the day, he comes because of his mercy.

And so thank you for being here.

We're just, I don't know, a few hundred yards from the new church.

Yeah.

And it's a privilege to have you.

Thanks for making the time.

Yeah, thank you so much.

Yeah.

Thank you, guys.

All right.

Well, let's get into it.

We want to know who you guys are, how you found Jesus.

You both have incredible backstories

of

not fully being in the faith, coming to faith.

Jess, you grew up in ministry.

Michael, you didn't.

And this is right.

Am I right?

Yeah, absolutely.

And I know there's so many different layers to your guys' stories.

And then you find each other and start serving Jesus together, get married.

I love your story so much.

So, whoever wants to go first, however, you want to tell.

Yours is more sinful.

It is.

I'll make yours look better.

So we make ourselves better.

Michael will look better after mine.

Yeah, I grew up in church my whole life.

My dad is in ministry, so it's all I've ever known.

And traditional pastor's kid, like, I hate to say that, but the norm is we typically run from God at some point in our life.

And so just completely ran away from the Lord, wanted nothing to do with God.

Started to run at like 13, 14,

just a mess, did all the things that you could imagine.

And went to a Christian university, got kicked out of that university, deserved it.

My grace.

And

I totally deserved it.

And

well, for so many things, he loves his story.

I might have,

I might have, it was a hot summer day and I might have gotten a beer and a floaty and went and the prayer gardens and enjoyed myself.

It was

on a raft.

That's not why I got kicked out, believe it or not.

But I don't even know if I got caught.

In a bathing suit.

Yeah.

It was a hot summer day, it was like it was over 100 degrees, and I was bored.

I was there at summer school because I was failing,

I know, yes, um,

but yeah, completely ran from God.

And then, when I did get kicked out of, you know, Christian University, which again, I deserved it.

I take full ownership for that, um, just hit like a big rock bottom and realized that, like,

I had nothing to show for my walk with God.

I was kind kind of just, I felt like a loser, and honestly, I was acting like one.

And hit like a good rock bottom and started to talk to the Lord again for the first time since I was a child.

He was so merciful, I could feel his presence the moment I talked to him and started to follow the Lord and shortly after met Michael.

And

we started to, you know, date with the intention of getting married.

I think we call it courting.

That's such a charismatic term.

Church words.

Yes.

And then just everything changed then.

And I've, you know, I've had my ups and downs for sure.

But the Lord has been so faithful and merciful.

And it just blows my mind.

Like we meet now, our church, we are, until our building is built, we are meeting at the church my dad built.

So like I always look around the room and I'm like, wow, like I was running from the Lord in here and hated God.

And here I am with my children serving God in the same building.

It's just

the details of the Lord are phenomenal.

Can we talk about that really quick?

Okay, so your building that you're at now in Orlando was your father's building where he ministered 20 years ago.

Gosh, maybe longer than that.

89 or 80.

84 it was done.

Oh yeah.

And you guys,

41 years ago.

And you guys got filled with the Holy Spirit right next to each other.

At the same night.

Can you tell us about that?

Yeah, we didn't know about that actually because he's what we're five years apart

four i think it's five but um how old are you i'm 43 you're

it's four and a half right anyway um so there was a night on it was a wednesday night church service where my dad called all the young people up and said the holy spirit is going to be so tangible tonight and he wants to impart his power into their lives.

And so I remember going on the stage and Michael did too, but we just figured this out maybe a few years ago.

We were talking about the moment that we met the Holy Spirit.

And I was like, oh my gosh, you were on the stage?

Were you one of the kids that was crying next to me?

He's like, I was on the stage right over here.

I was like, me too.

So it's wild.

That's amazing.

You guys.

Yeah.

Yeah, her dad actually,

so I had gotten saved.

And then I had heard about the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

through my cousin who was a Greek Orthodox priest.

He was a very powerful theologian and he had had read Good Morning, Holy Spirit, which is the book our dad wrote.

And if there were ever a balanced, liturgical, seasoned,

strong man, it was my cousin, Father Sam, who was also in the Marines, was a chaplain there, lectured at the seminary, the Orthodox seminary.

So just a very strong, solid man.

And now he gets filled with the Holy Spirit and

starts ministering in the gifts of the Spirit.

I was an altar boy, and there was just a very pronounced difference.

And so he gives us this book.

Long story short, her dad actually led me to the Lord in that building.

And then I had heard about the baptism of the Spirit.

I had seen what the power of the Holy Spirit can do to a family and a community.

watching the before and after, similar to Peter, right?

Peter denies the Lord post-Pentecost.

He preaches to the same people who killed the Lord.

And so you see these marked differences in lives that you're familiar with.

And

so Pastor Benny, so I had been seeking the Lord for this touch from heaven for maybe six months to a year as a 12-year-old boy.

And I had always been offered like what I felt wasn't the real deal, just to be honest.

Can you talk tongue?

Yeah, like old women, old Pentecostal women would come up and be just like, repeat after me.

It was all about like tongues or all about like this language.

And I knew there was something more because I had experienced the presence of the Spirit.

I had seen true miracles growing up.

And obviously I value all the gifts of the Spirit, but I didn't want to repeat after someone.

I wanted my own story.

I wanted God's fingerprint on my own life.

And so Pastor Benny said, after like six months, it was really funny, actually.

Growing up Greek Orthodox, I said, well, maybe if I buy a new icon and put it in my room and pray in front of my icon, I'll get baptized in the Spirit.

and so like for a month and a half as a 12 year old i would pray for six to eight hours a day

yeah

and nothing happened so then i said take me back to the icon shop in tarpon and they took me and i said maybe if i get an icon with a candle connected to it because i had heard it was the baptism of the holy spirit and fire so i said maybe i need some fire on my room so

so i lit the candle that didn't do it

and then i went back to church my parents drove me back with all these Greek Orthodox people from Tarpon Springs to her dad's church about almost three hour drive and Pastor Benny said next Wednesday I will teach on the baptism of the Spirit wow and something leapt in me and I told my mom my sweet mom I said

you've got to take me back mom and then imagine you're just shuttling somebody three hours each direction

I owe so much to my parents you know yeah

wow and sure enough he taught and faith was leaping in my soul He taught for about two hours on the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

And he called people forward and that was the night.

I went down too.

So it's like undeniable that the Holy Spirit met me that night.

Yeah, it was something to this day I cannot shake it.

And I was eight.

I was eight years old.

Yeah.

Wow.

So the Lord's been so faithful to us.

Yeah.

What an insane story.

All the crossover, all the connection.

And then so, Pastor Michael, you are, you've given us a little bit of your story.

And then so what does the rest of your teens into adulthood look like?

Oh geez.

I started preaching at 16 in a little Bible study.

I was, this was after my parents took me to Pastor Benny's,

gosh, for four years.

By this time I'm a junior in high school and my background is golf, so I was being recruited to play for, the best schools in the country.

And I felt the Lord actually called me to ORU, but I didn't want to go there.

Just, they weren't very good at golf.

That's where I went.

There's the difference between men and women.

They weren't, they just weren't.

And it was cold there.

I remember my recruiting visit was November in Tulsa.

And I'd always wanted to play for the Gators

in Gainesville here at University of Florida but I knew the Lord was calling me to to Tulsa to ROU I just couldn't do it and it was the wrong call spiritually I'm grateful for all I learned at UF but I think God's perfect plan was that I'd gone to ROU

Do you can I interrupt

you so are you saying that you feel like you kind of missed God's really

okay because there's a lot of messaging that like you can never miss what God has for you.

And like what do you think about that?

I don't see that in the Bible at all.

I mean there are I mean from the story of Eden people miss it.

Cain certainly missed it.

The kings of Israel certainly missed it.

David missed it.

God was merciful.

But any time you remove the ability to miss it, free choice, you remove the ability to love.

Yeah.

So

but the Lord will turn it around.

He can if you yield or you can just miss it your whole life.

Wow.

The free will is very, very powerful.

God is after our will.

It's the seat of the soul.

It's the bullseye of the soul.

In the Orthodox tradition, we call this the process of theosis.

In other words,

the Eastern thought is me becoming, me experiencing union with God.

and by his power forming me into his image.

So eventually the soul is renewed and the mind is renewed and we call this sanctification.

But certainly you can resist all that.

And I did and

went to the University of Florida, backslid,

backslid actually prior to going because I just felt like I was in rebellion towards the end of my high school years.

And that's not a great place to be.

And

so I went to school there.

went like a year without ever picking up a Bible

and turned professional, eventually played professionally, got injured a bunch.

And then I started coaching.

And then that's when Jessica and I

reconnected.

Well,

you know, she was nine, so I mean, I reconnected.

We were like,

yeah,

nothing serious at that time.

Yeah, yeah.

But my, amazingly, my aunt, who's with the Lord now.

That's true, yeah.

Before we were baptized in the Spirit, you know, we didn't have connections at the church.

So we'd sit in the back, You'd have to line up back then, which is wild, similar to now.

And

so we would get like balcony seats.

We'd sit in the back.

And my aunt said, pointed at Jess when I was 12, and she said, that's your wife.

You'll marry her one day.

It's unbelievable.

And I was like, no way.

She's like, yep, that's your wife.

You had a unibrow on a Jordan jersey.

Yeah, she had a unibrow.

We always bring up her unibrow.

He always does.

That's why I said it for him because I knew it was coming.

I've been teaching on unity.

I knew it was coming.

I've been teaching on unity at the church, and I think her unibrow was just

the two becoming one.

Yeah.

So,

she was a Middle Eastern girl who hadn't discovered grooming.

I was eight.

Jess.

Yeah.

I was eight.

Jess was for Jess.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But

where were we?

Yeah, how Thea R.G.

said.

Oh, she said that.

And then,

yeah, so then I fast forward, I i go to college backslide and then in 03

uh my brother started dating her cousin that's yeah that's a cool thing at oru so jess actually so gone

yeah that's the cool thing after i had um left or you i went back because i god gave me a dream for my cousin and so i went back to tell her a dream i had and i met his brother who was going to ORU.

After, again, I never met him when I was there.

I happened to just meet him going back to see my cousin.

And

as soon as I saw his brother, the Lord was like, that's Rachel's husband.

So I played a part in introducing them, my cousin and his brother.

And then when I met his brother, he was like, oh my gosh, we went to your dad's church.

Like, we grew up going to your daddy's church.

And I was like, okay, cool.

And he was like, you've got to meet my brother.

And that's how the Lord brought us back together.

Yeah.

And then in 03, I was living in Vegas

and Gainesville between the two.

And

yeah, so I came out.

My brother's like, you need to come visit her.

And I did.

I'd seen a picture of her.

I was like, whoa.

And

the Unibrow.

And no more Unibrow.

No more Jordan jerseys.

And

so I flew to Orange County.

They were living in Dana Point at the time.

And when she opened the door, the Lord said, that's your wife.

Stop.

That was that.

And then her dad offered me a job, and I left everything.

And then

I moved my whole life to Orange County.

Wow.

This is completely off topic, but I am curious because

growing up in church,

being in the world for a little bit, you guys come together.

You both had a life and a past.

I'm wondering, when you guys came together, was there, did the Lord have to do a work of reconciliation

between,

you know, who you guys were at that moment, who you were in your past was there shame that had to be dealt with good question it's a really good question um for me i was kind of going through that process right when i met michael and just to be really like raw and honest i remember you know i would always say things to myself when i was in the world like i never want to be one of those christians that won't go to a club or won't do this and you know i was kind of like you know how you try to like talk yourself into maybe living in mixture a little bit

And so when I met Michael, because we were both coming out of the world and we met, I think the first time was in Orange County, but then like he was working in the summers in Vegas when we were dating.

So I would go visit him.

And I remember I said, let's go to the club or something like that.

I was like, no, we're

finding God, but we can still go to the club.

And he said, I'll never forget it.

He said, I think those days are done for us.

I was like, what do you mean?

He's like, I think those days are done for us.

We either need to be going after God God or not.

And he goes, and I believe with all my heart, you're my wife, and I don't want to mess this up.

And because we both did have a past, we had to put really clear boundaries in place so that we didn't slip up or do something we shouldn't do.

Because we just did not want to mess up what the Lord was doing.

We knew this was a good thing.

And so we did have that moment of just kind of going like, we're kind of all or nothing people anyway.

But it was the best decision and I had no regrets.

Like it was like, okay, we're done serving the world.

Now we're going to serve serve the Lord.

And so, we kind of just had that moment and wiped our hands clean of it.

And I was thankful that the Lord sent me a godly man that had strength to actually say that to me.

And that was helpful because maybe I would have compromised if he didn't lay it down like that and say, No, we're going after the Lord, no more playing games.

Yeah.

And we just quickly made that decision.

Wow, that's amazing.

Yeah, I felt like it was so much God's will, I felt the fear of the Lord around it.

So that's true.

Wow.

Of course, I loved her.

I honored her her dad, his impact on my life, but

I also was very aware of the fact that I could blow up

what God had planned.

And that really freaked me out.

Wow.

And

God's messaging was so clear

that there was a real, real like awe of God around it.

Like I remember her dad one night, we were watching a movie and we always left her bedroom door open and he walks in

I'm on the floor and she's on her bed and he's like why are you laying on the floor watching a movie but that was like the level of like

I'm not

I'm not going here you know our her grandmother and my grandmother used to say

gasoline and fire don't mix And it's an old like Greek Middle Eastern saying.

Like,

she'd say, the man has the fire and the woman has the gasoline.

Those two don't mix.

And by God's grace, we just, we never went there.

We just never went there.

And

we know a lot of people who did.

And unfortunately, it's not that God can't forgive, but our experience has been it affected their trajectory

because origin is so important.

Like the origin of something determines its trajectory.

It determines so much.

So the root system of anything that we're involved with is massive.

And I've just seen the difference over the last 21 years now.

Yeah.

Of marriage, like people who got married around the same time,

who maybe didn't have those boundaries, maybe had a different viewpoint on purity.

The proof's been in the pudding in their lives.

And purity

doesn't fall on your lap.

You have to pay for it.

Yeah.

It comes with

very

thought out decisions based on scripture.

And I think we were engaged like 18 months before we got married.

That's a long time.

That's a long time to be engaged.

Well, because I was gone so much.

I was her dad's sister.

There's still so much to do.

Well, everybody that I talk to is always like, have a short engagement because longer dating, short engagement, because it gets, the lines get weird when you're engaged.

It's just like, are we married?

It just gets harder.

So that is amazing.

I think our culture helped.

I mean, we had like, you marry the family.

So, like,

yes, I know.

Like, I had my Greek family, her side.

Yeah.

I mean, I think we would have been assassinated had we messed it up.

Like, there were a lot of people like cheering us on, rebuking us, correcting us.

Very accountable to people, too.

And, like, I always say this to our students a lot who are, you know, young and dating and stuff at Jesus School.

I'm like, listen, the reason I trust Michael now, because he's on the road.

He's always been on the road.

He was an evangelist before he was a pastor.

I was like, the fact that he had self-control self-control not to touch me before our wedding makes me trust him now with other women.

The fact that he could have control of his members, like the Bible teaches us, you know, like that he had self-control makes me as a wife feel better knowing who he is.

So that I always tell young people, like, you're going to have your whole marriage.

Like, you don't, don't screw it up.

Just really trust the Lord and put healthy boundaries in place.

Boundaries can get weird, but healthy boundaries are needed in those circumstances.

absolutely and if you have like confess it yeah make restitution

uh be accountable to the lord and people yeah and you know don't let the shame of sin keep you from flourishing in the kingdom yeah but at the same time that thought process should never be permission to

to uh willfully uh

break the heart of god absolutely

yeah wow thank you guys thank you for speaking on that at the very beginning of this episode.

It's our favorite thing to talk about

because, honestly, we're two girls who literally couldn't have even fathomed what a life of genuine, authentic purity and a pursuit of holiness could mean.

Like you're in the world and you're following Jesus, and we have so many people, I'm sure, who watch who are still living a life of mixture and casual Christianity and just like kind of, or cultural Christianity, and just being so casual about their faith and blind.

Like I was following, following, I was encountering Jesus, loving Jesus, literally meeting the Holy Spirit every single day, like the scriptures coming to life before me and then sinning at the same time.

Because the bondage of sin, like the stronghold that sin, like it blinds you.

It perverts everything.

And like when you have especially sexual sin in your life, you can't see anything clearly.

You can't see.

You can't even see that what you're doing is wrong.

You can't even feel the conviction.

So, thank you guys for talking about that.

Of course.

I think what's really important for having you guys on and our listeners, our audience, is we want to teach people how to seek Jesus, how to see the face of Jesus,

how to operate in the gifts.

This is a lot of different topics, but first we can start with just how to genuinely seek Jesus.

Want to go?

Go ahead.

Oh, me?

Okay.

Yeah, just being aware that he's so available.

He's so near.

He's so present.

Giving him all of your time.

I'll be the first to say I struggled with this for many, many years.

And finally, when I got rid of all the other desires in my life and just started going after him, I didn't realize how deeply I needed him.

And he was so faithful.

And that's the thing about Jesus.

He's so merciful.

Like when you run from him and then you decide to run back, he doesn't condemn you and make you feel less than.

He's such a loving father, like any good parent, you know, would be if their child comes home or even if they're following him, but they go the wrong direction for a moment and go back.

He was so merciful to me through all the ups and downs.

And there's so many.

And love's so without conditions.

And people we love with conditions.

We don't know how not to, but the Lord really loves us with an unconditional love.

And so having this kind of fellowship with Jesus and for me, personally, knowing that when I don't spend time with him,

even today, like even now, Jessica now is the worst version of herself.

And I need him every day.

I don't know, I can't even be a good wife, a good mom, a good leader, any of that without following Jesus.

So, it's just making yourself available and knowing how near he is.

And I love how Michael always says, He's like, You can have as much of him as you want.

Like, he's so available.

So, that's key for me.

And I think intimacy, like, we're married to Christ.

Like, so it's true bridal love.

And it's not like this little relationship that has no depth.

It's the deepest relationship we'll ever have in our life.

So walking with him that way and just talking to him like I'm talking to you.

Like I'm pretty simple.

I don't complicate my walk with the Lord.

I just talk to him when I have good days, bad days, when I feel weak, when I feel strong.

I actually like myself.

This sounds crazy, but I like myself more sometime in weakness than when I feel stronger

because I feel like I'm more dependent upon him.

And that keeps me childlike and grounded.

So

just making him everything.

He's everything in our life.

Like, I don't know how to do any part of my life now without Jesus being the center of it.

And I hope he always stays it, because I don't trust myself without it.

Absolutely not.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'd say

I mean, some of the basics I think would be important maybe to mention would be

prayers to be daily.

We're to ask for daily bread.

His presence is life.

So I think probably one of the key revelations, and it is a revelation from the Lord,

is

the presence and the word of Jesus is a matter of life and death.

So Jesus said in the wilderness, man does not live by bread alone, right?

but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

So the context there is survival or not.

Right?

Like you live by it, or if you don't have it, you die.

So this births a massive dependency.

I need the Lord

and I need him every day.

I would say that's like elementary thought.

I need him way more often than daily.

Daily isn't enough.

I need him continually.

And

Paul

describes such a standard that

it invites us into a lifelong pursuit of the Lord.

He says that he prays for

his church always, and he commands the church to pray unceasingly.

So the call is actually unceasing prayer, continual prayer.

And if that's the call, which I believe transcends and is more pivotal than

what we commit to from a missional standpoint, right?

If I can achieve continual prayer, I'm not going to have to worry about stadiums or arenas or whatever I'm called to or being faithful to Jesus' image.

If I find the continual reception and interaction with God that is continual prayer, everything else is a byproduct.

Everything.

Everything else.

My marriage is a byproduct.

Me raising my kids is a byproduct.

So you mentioned my kids earlier, right?

And they are wonderful.

Insanely amazing.

I love hanging out with my children.

And they're godly, they're on fire.

They're deep in the scriptures.

Benny's ministering, Theo's ministering.

Sophia's starting a Bible study for her friends.

She's led worship in our environment with, I don't know, 80 voices behind her.

She started leading, what, 12 was her first set she led?

I think 12, yeah.

Yeah.

Incredible, right?

And then Theo's MDing.

He's leading the team at times.

He plays keys.

He writes music.

He's strong in the word.

Benny's going so deep in theology and preaching.

He just preached at Jesus School.

So all of that is a byproduct of the presence of God.

Now, two of the three received the Lord a foot outside my prayer room because I'd walk out

when we were little, when they were little, and they'd say, Baba, what's going on in there?

Baba, so you say, Father in Greek.

Baba, what's going on there?

And I said, I'm with the Lord.

And they said, well, we can feel that.

How can we get to know the Lord?

And I said, well, you can get to know him right now.

So I got on my knees with my boys.

I'm talking afoot outside my prayer room in my house.

And I got to lead them to the Lord.

The Lord himself is the greatest evangelist.

We're not these great evangelists.

We're weak.

Holy Spirit filled because of his grace, pieces of dust.

That's what we are.

And

I remember when people started getting healed in our meetings, her dad called me and he said,

I'm so proud of you, but can I give you

just a little advice?

I said, sure.

He goes, you know, those hands that God seems to be flowing through.

I said, yeah.

He said, those are the same hands you open a car door with.

Those are the same hands you wash dishes with.

They're the same hands you open a cupboard with.

They are just pieces of clay that God fills.

So her dad, for example, Father Sam,

other priests and clergy, never taught us how to minister to the sick, for example.

But they taught us to pray.

And they taught us the bullseye of it all, how to commune with the Lord.

So I'd say, when you see his presence as being a matter of bread,

not a side issue, a matter of bread.

If you don't eat, you die.

David said, if you're quiet, Lord, if thou thou be silent unto me, he wrote in the Psalms, it's like I'm living in the pit.

So God's voice to David wasn't like, oh, cool, I got a word.

It was, when you don't talk,

I feel like I'm in hell.

Yeah, that's true.

So it must be daily.

And

I'm a firm believer in morning prayer.

I'm not trying to be religious, but I do want to be saintly.

And the testimony of the scriptures, and the testimony of the fathers of the church and the testimony of monastic orders for the last 2,000 years has been, my mornings belong to God.

And something I told Jessica was, if God wants the tithe of our money,

how much more does he want the tithe of my day?

Yeah, first fruits, yeah.

And we're very busy.

But if I want the Lord, I can still meet him in the morning.

I can make the time.

You have to make the time.

God will not make the time.

So this morning,

I didn't want to come here not full.

That would be a disservice to the Lord and to you

and to the people watching.

I wanted to commune with the Lord and I wanted him to move through me.

So this morning is an example.

Like every other morning, I'm up when it's dark and I love being with him

because I found what when I give him my mornings, he takes the day.

That's true.

He takes the whole day.

Now, when I'm with him,

it's not complicated.

It becomes less complicated as you age.

I was telling my son Benny today,

he goes, Baba, have you ever felt close to the Lord, but far?

And I go, at first I go, no.

But I knew what he was saying.

I go, hold on.

Do you mean close in the heart?

and far in the thoughts or far in the mind?

Because the the heart is married to the Lord.

The Bible says he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with the Lord.

Yeah.

Or one with the Lord.

But the mind, the thoughts, the distractions, the birthplace, the origin of sin,

or inspired thought from God, there's a war over the mind.

And so what I've learned is

When I come in to be with the Lord and I give him my thoughts and I open the scriptures, I can open the book, I should say, but he has to open the scripture.

And so I simply open my Bible.

I usually will wait on the Lord for

45 minutes to an hour, just quietly.

Then I open my Bible because you can't rush into this book.

Too many people just rush.

This is the heart of God in print.

And this book is encrypted unless God opens it, which makes it so holy.

One of the things that makes it holy.

What I mean by that is,

unless you know the Holy Spirit, you can use this book to attack people God loves.

That's what Paul did.

Saul killed Christians because he felt that the scriptures

demanded it, right?

And then he meets Jesus, the person,

and he takes the same scriptures.

and reasons in the synagogues and proves that Jesus is the Christ.

What was the hinge?

What's the difference?

The person of the Lord.

So I wait on the Lord.

And people, my students, our students, the Lord's students, ask me all the time, Pastor, how do you wait?

And I go, her daddy taught me this.

Well, how do you wait at the doctor?

You wait.

And sometimes at the doctor, you go through all the magazines, and then you go through everyone, and then what are you left to?

Waiting again.

And a man named Walter Butler, who's gone on to be with the Lord, a great Bible teacher, once said, to rush the Lord is to find fault with the Lord.

So when we start going, why isn't he manifesting his presence yet?

That's not the question.

The question is, he's worth the wait.

And so I wait, and then I open the scriptures and I say, Holy Spirit,

show me Jesus in this divine garden called the Word of God.

And then I start slowly reading.

And typically, every morning,

he puts a red light on a word or a verse.

And sometimes in my immaturity, I'll blow by it.

And then I'll feel him go, hold on,

you're moving beyond me.

Think of the word forget, because forgetting is a sin.

Think of what the word forget actually means.

Look at the word.

For means to go beyond.

Get means reception.

So when we're impatient, we rush past the cloud, past what the Lord is doing, and we forfeit our getting.

We forget.

Wow.

Like forethought is to go beyond.

So you forget the Lord oftentimes when you move beyond where he's pointing you in the scripture.

And then I'll read, he'll highlight something to me in the text.

It might be a word or a verse or a passage.

And then once he does that, I'll pray into it.

And when I pray into it, I'm praying into his heart because it's from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

So I can know for sure God has spoken, therefore I can discover his heart through his words.

And then I read till my heart comes alive, until he shows me himself, and then I pray.

And then he tells me when it's done.

And I leave, aware of his presence.

And my goal, my goal, and I haven't come close to getting this right yet, but it is my dream.

And a lot would have to probably happen,

which is a different story.

But my dream is to walk with that awareness every second of every day,

hopefully more as I age and as my end comes near, I'll be more aware of him so that this world is less

magnetic to me.

So that way when it comes time to leave this world,

My heart will have already left it.

So that those weights are gone,

those

weights that Paul said that so easily hold us down or so easily entangle us.

And so secret prayer births continual prayer.

That's what I would tell all of our listeners.

It's like,

Psalm 91, he who dwells in the secret place shall abide.

So what I'd like to just lovingly address is this teaching.

especially in Gen Z

or young millennials,

certainly in Alpha, is that you can just walk with God at all times.

Yes, but it doesn't just happen.

Continual prayer is born

in secret prayer.

He who dwells in secret shall abide.

And so this generation, I want to see, discover Jesus in the scriptures and learn to commune with him in prayer.

And you learn as you go, all a man can do is guide you.

Eventually, you have to shut the door and the Holy Spirit will teach you.

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Do you always sit in silence?

Do you guys sit in silence in the mornings?

Because you guys taught me so much about worship.

And I'd like to know in your mornings, do you worship?

Do you put ours in silence?

We're both a little different.

Yeah, I will typically sit in silence and I do get distracted really easily.

So I have to put my phone away.

I like to, I'm not a morning person like Michael, by the way.

Like I could be a night owl and I could sleep in with the best of them.

But I did have to kind of train my body to wake up early because with having kids and the busyness of life if I don't get up early I've noticed that my time with the Lord just I don't get the time with the Lord that I need but yeah always in the word every day you have to read your Bible that's why I love what you girls are doing because that is the foundation of everything we are you I just so many Christians don't read their Bible or they we peri-chick what's the phrase peri cherry pick yeah

okay

that's what I did

I was like man I'm so far I know I kind of you know know, whatever.

But we choose, pick and choose the scriptures we want that make us feel good, but we don't read the whole Bible, which I think is such a disservice to this generation.

You need to read the entire Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to help you understand the Bible.

He will do it every time.

So always in the Word of God.

Towards the end of my prayer time, I'll put on worship music because I love to worship and I'll sing just to Jesus, talk to him, just fellowship with him.

And I love corporate gathering, but there's something so holy about intimate private time with Jesus.

That's really the foundation of your walk with him.

And you do need to gather corporately.

I believe in that.

But if you only gather corporately and never have time alone with him, I always say it's like a marriage.

If Michael and I only hang out with our kids and our staff and our family and our church people, the people that come to our church, I should say, like that's no intimate relationship.

That's very surfaced.

We're going to need to have actually time together to actually continue to keep that love alive in our hearts.

Well, it's no different with our walk with Jesus.

You have to have your own time with him.

That's really what fills you.

That's what sustains you.

That's what actually gives you authority to be used by him.

And if you follow God for the stuff, like if you serve him just so you can be effective for him, that's not true relationship because we all know what it feels like when you have a relationship and it's just for what can you do for me?

You feel used.

so our walk with god is no different you have to actually be with him just for him and you get him there's nothing

yeah oh that was so good yeah

um but yeah we have worship on a lot but we we have our own time with the lord and then we pray with our kids we pray together as husband and wife but we're all we're always with the lord alone and we taught our kids go in the room open the bible talk to the lord in your room in private because if not it's just you'll get too distracted yeah i i'm a little different.

We're different people

in different seasons in our spiritual life, right?

So

when I was seeking the Lord,

I was telling Benny this today because he was asking the same types of questions.

And it's a great question, Ari.

Like, because

the Lord, Jeremiah says that he is the Lord who hides himself

and

not from us, but for us, right?

So the Lord loves to be sought.

Wow.

Just like any of us do.

And you see this on the road to Emmaus.

The Lord says, I'm going on.

And his reasoning in the text is so funny.

Luke writes, because it was dark.

It's like, the Lord's not scared of the dark, you know, like, big deal.

You know what I mean?

It's like, what was he doing?

Why was he saying, I will go on?

And the Bible says that the disciples constrained him.

And he stayed.

All they said is, no, no, no, you can't leave you have to eat with us.

He goes, okay.

You did it walking on water, remember?

He's walking on water.

He was going to walk by them.

Perfect.

I know.

He's going to walk by him.

It feels super precious.

He's going to walk by him on the boat, and they go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what are you doing?

Because he's on a mission.

And then that's the other side of him is we're like.

He loves to be wanted, too.

He loves to be loved.

He wants to be wanted.

He seeks to be sought.

And so we say, oh, I sought the Lord.

You sought the Lord because he sought you first.

He said, the Son of Man has come to seek and save the lost.

Revelation 3.

He's the one knocking on the door.

And the Shulamite says that the beloved is outside whose hands are dripping with myrrh.

And the scripture says that his locks are wet with the dew of night in the Song of Solomon.

In other words, the picture, the mystical picture,

that's not a curse word, that's a very...

ancient Christian word.

It just means to experience God.

That mystical picture is the Savior outside the door of our heart, waiting long enough until his hair is wet.

If you've ever been to the Middle East or the Mediterranean, it's kind of like the marine lair in Newport or something.

It comes in, it's not raining, but it's damp out.

Yeah, there's a mist.

That's the picture.

And so this is a side of the Lord that wants to be wanted.

You see it throughout the Old Testament scriptures.

Genesis through Malachi is not God hates everyone.

It is a God calling his unfaithful bride back to him over and over again.

So that being said,

what Benny and I were talking about today on the way here was like, he's like, well,

like, what about this and this in prayer?

Like, do I listen to worship?

There was a time I did, and that may come again.

Right now,

God is teaching me a few things in prayer

in a new way.

the power of the scriptures as I pray them

and teaching me to wait in deep silence.

Like a deep quiet.

And I tell our students, people often

relinquish and forsake worship because they want to listen to music.

That's true.

Wow.

Wow.

And

now, coming from a pastor who

has the joy of serving a house like Jesus' image,

that God is blessed with an incredible worship community that's very special.

I'm the first one to say, I love to sing.

I love our musicians.

I love what they do.

It's a huge part of who we are.

God likes music.

Psalm 45, strings make his heart glad.

I don't know why, but they do.

And so, in certain moments, I'll call our strings players up if I really am feeling led in a certain direction, right?

But, but

there is a place in communion with God

where somebody else's music isn't going to take you.

And there's a sound to the silence of the heart.

So right now I don't, Ari,

I don't.

Now,

if I'm like getting ready, if I'm on my way to service, there are a few people that I'll listen to worship-wise.

But it's a small list.

I listen to Miss Kuhlman

a lot

before certain meetings because it's

my DNA.

It wakes something up.

I'll listen to a lot of older,

more ancient stuff.

But for the most part in the mornings,

the Lord is teaching me

how powerful Psalm 46.10 is.

Be still and know that I'm the Lord.

And that's been for like three years now.

I think what the Lord does is, at least for me, he's done this, and I think I speak for Jess as well.

is throughout different seasons of life, the Lord teaches you to discover his presence in another biblical way.

It's not unbiblical, but it's like, hey, for those four months, I was touching something when I prayed in the spirit.

For those three months, I was touching something waiting in silence.

For those five months, this song really moved me.

Maybe this psalm did.

Like last night, I felt the Lord quicken me.

Like I was laying down in bed.

I thought the night was over.

And I felt the Lord go, just very gently, I'd like time with you.

I was tired.

I'm very tired you know I was like okay

so I went and I read like two psalms it lasted an hour because a well opened like in my heart

so the point is the Holy Spirit leads us

and disciples us and teaches us how to drink from his well and where they're located.

And we see that through the journey of Israel.

He takes them through different locations.

Each location means something.

We see that in the ancient church where there's singing, right?

That's the Eucharist, obviously, the body and blood of Jesus.

The scriptures, right?

Prayer,

corporate worship, corporate prayer, waiting in silence.

These are all ways to encounter the Lord.

And the only way to know what to do when

is

some of these

holy practices are very clearly taught in scripture.

But

the Lord doesn't necessarily tell you what to do in what order.

Some things he does.

Like thanksgiving should precede praise.

Praise should lead me into worship.

Worship should lead me into a manifestation of his presence.

And when his presence manifests, I should do nothing.

That is a biblical pattern.

right

but

um

how to do that when to do that, what to say, what not to say is completely dependent on a relationship with the Holy Spirit.

Yeah.

Wow.

I live and I die by the secret place.

It's the most important thing.

I've discovered, I feel like in the last year, that if I come on every Friday and girls go on Bible and tell them the exact same thing every Friday for the rest of my life, that's okay.

I actually don't need to come up with anything new.

Read the Bible,

elevate the word above everything else in your life, and spend time with Jesus that costs you something.

That like actually is almost painful to spend that time because you're so pulled to starting your day and talking to people and going to work and being like, no, that is the time when you should be sitting and sitting in silence, like you guys are saying.

And I've also experienced, so I've discovered that it's about finding what he wants and what he likes.

And it's all about like, instead of coming to the secret place wanting something having the perspective that like I actually am gonna offer him something it's not just about receiving it's about me giving him and it just changed then I'm not like dying for his presence because I'm aware that I've entered into his meeting like he's already called me there I'm not waiting for him to come because he's already there inviting me yeah and so can you take us into what you just said about the thanksgiving to praise to worship to presence because I think that's a really important

thing.

Yeah, I mean the scripture says we enter his gates with thanksgiving, his courts with praise.

My heart is never to be critical, but I do travel the world and I've had the joy of ministering in places I dreamt of and

I'm not sure we're even getting past the gate.

I don't even like I don't mean I can't say that like in a uniform broad stroke because there are many beautiful things the Lord's doing.

but

I'm not even sure we're getting to the gate in many cases like

because

to get to the gate of the tabernacle that the psalmist would have been referring to you actually had to get out of your tent

and you had to do it when God said do it

So you worship the Lord where he said to be worshipped.

You worship the Lord when he said he wanted to be worshipped.

And you had to leave your comfort zone.

And then you had to have something legitimate to thank him for beyond your bank account, which should be part of it.

You should say, Lord, thank you for providing.

But how about his blood?

How about the cross?

How about the blessedness of his spirit?

I mean...

You know, when we talk about him, you feel him here.

That's how wonderful he is.

We start talking about him, and he falls like a beautiful,

loving shepherd that he is.

How about thanking him for making our bodies temples of the Holy Spirit?

I mean that is

you could preach on that for the rest of your life that God has taken this body

that I used to glorify the devil.

He's taken this body

that I used to make much of Michael, which is the most satanic thing you can do.

We think the most satanic thing you can do is run around with a pentagram on your

chest, and that's a bad idea, by the way.

Don't do it.

But the devil is very, very okay with and rejoices when we're just all about us.

Yeah.

That's like the most demonic thing you can do.

The doctrine of man is the doctrine of the devil.

So

here,

Jessica, myself, all of us,

prior to Jesus,

were not just committing sin, but

like the children of Israel, when they were enslaved in Egypt, there's a powerful passage prior to Moses' deliverance when he delivers them.

It says that Pharaoh demanded that they build him cities.

Wow.

And that's what we do for the devil when we're in sin.

Our bodies build him strongholds.

And the scripture says that,

for example, with children,

it's better to have a millstone tied around your neck than to offend one of these little ones.

A millstone is the size of a washing machine.

They would tie it to somebody's neck, throw them overboard, it would snap their neck, take them down to the bottom, couldn't move their body, and they'd slowly drown out.

Jesus said, It's better to have that happen to you than to offend one little child.

This is what sin does: it builds cities for Pharaoh, the devil.

Then the Lord Jesus comes and reveals himself to us in his mercy.

The power of the cross is revealed to us, his shed blood.

Not only does he forgive our sin, not only does he say we're not guilty, but then proclaims us as being righteous.

Not only does he,

you probably heard me preach this, he doesn't change our lives, he replaces them.

He gives us his life for my horrific life.

And then takes this body that was once a tool for the devil and makes it a temple.

And the one who fills it is the uncreated God.

The Lord and the giver of life.

The creed says of the Holy Spirit, and we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and the giver of life.

So the same Spirit, think of this,

hopefully, hopefully the Lord is anointing us right now so that each word will land.

The same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead.

That's amazing.

No one laid hands on Jesus.

Nobody went to the tomb and held a prayer meeting.

Nobody threw a prayer cloth on him.

Nobody put the prophet's body on him.

The Holy Spirit, that same wonderful Lord and giver of life, who created the heavens and the earth,

who knows the amount of grains of sand in the entire earth, entire earth, and has weighed them.

The Spirit of the Lord, who cannot be counseled.

In other words, you can't instruct him, the scripture says.

The same Lord of Genesis chapter 1, who took an earth and a cosmos that was formless, void, and chaotic, and dark.

And then he moved, and God spoke when he moved,

and light came, which speaks of the Messiah.

That's still how the Lord reveals the light of the world to us.

That amazing Holy Spirit lives in you and I.

That should make you thankful.

But if you fly over these truths,

oh, thank you for Jesus.

It's like, hold on.

You mean thank you for the uncreated God who came from the bosom of the Father?

So thanksgiving erupts in a people

where Jesus is seen.

And then the only response is praise.

So I praise him because of his mighty works and because of his greatness.

Great is the Lord and greatly to be praised.

You were there Sunday night.

Waves of praise hit the building, right?

Like...

During offerings.

During offering.

During offering.

During a video playing.

Yeah.

They weren't even acting alive.

That one was really special.

But before that, remember I tried to close and waves of praise hit and they wouldn't let me leave.

Wow.

Praise, we praise him because of his greatness.

And his greatness is made real to us when we thank him.

When we praise, he inhabits it.

He starts to live with in there.

Praise is like a cinder block, if it's proper.

You don't get to choose it.

It has to be according to the scriptures.

And when you do it rightly, he goes, I'll take that little building block and I'll make it a house.

And if you have 10 people doing it, and then 15, 20, and 2,000 or 3,000, and they start praising the Lord, now you've got this house that he trusts and that he lives in.

My only response when he starts to live there is to then worship because he becomes real to me.

When I worship him, which is a low place, and worship, as Dean Becker said,

isn't relegated to a song.

It's the giving away of life.

Genesis 22, Abraham, give me Isaac.

Give me the most precious thing to you.

That's worship.

And when I begin to worship,

God takes over.

When God takes over, he benches us.

And when God benches us, he does everything beautifully.

And this is where beauty is revealed.

Like, I always wanted people to be healed in a holy way.

I didn't want to make entertainment of it.

I didn't want to make much of me.

I didn't want the pomp and circumstance.

I would, Jesse will tell you, I said, Lord, you do it.

You do it.

Confound the wise.

Turn people away from me.

Do it beautifully.

I told Heidi Baker that when it first started happening, I said, Heidi, Heidi, before I used to lay hands on people, and that is beautiful, don't get me wrong, it's in the scriptures.

Lay hands on the sick and they'll recover.

But I dreamt of a day

where in this beautiful elegance

of worship, the Lord would come

and do it.

And I could watch him do it.

And the first time it happened, I was sitting with Heidi and I said, Heidi, he did it.

And she says, isn't it so much better?

It's so cool.

And

it's not just about healing.

Yeah.

But when the Lord is worshipped, which is death, we die.

You die to the clock.

Especially out in L.A.

where y'all are, there needs to be like a massive movement to die to the clock.

I pastored there for years.

Yeah.

I know it well.

But that's everywhere.

I'm not saying you have to go 12 hours.

Like,

if you're going to have an unanointed meeting, make it short.

Because longer ones are just not fun.

But you have to die to everything.

Your preference, the preference of the people in worship, and he comes.

And

that's the best I can explain it.

I'm sure there are much better ways.

That was a great way to explain it.

Thank you so much.

Ardio.

No.

um unbelievable

i'm just we're just saying engulfing such a gift for us specifically i

the presence of god

is it a feeling

is it

can it be measured

is it

always an encounter that is life-changing what is truly the presence of God.

Yeah, I mean, it's him.

He's his presence.

It's Jesus.

And I think oftentimes we look for a feeling.

You know, we do this a lot with the Holy Spirit.

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And yeah, the presence of Jesus is Him.

So instead of going after the presence, go after Jesus.

And when you go after the Lord, you get His presence.

And

sometimes it is super tangible.

And but again, it's Him.

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Yeah, the presence of the Lord is the Lord.

Yeah.

So we asked you guys to come here, right?

Thank you for coming, by the way.

Thank you so much.

We requested your presence.

Yeah.

We didn't ask for you to send your bio or for you to send us a feeling of you.

Now you can feel the Lord.

It depends on how you define that.

The Lord is known,

which includes feelings,

but it's deeper, more broad than feelings.

But I can't feel him.

I feel him now.

And when he really graces us with his presence, you become more aware of him than people.

And that's how you bless people the most.

I always tell our church, I'll love you best when I love Jesus the most.

So we requested your presence.

You came.

When we request the Lord's presence, we're requesting him.

And his presence presence is his glory, right?

So Exodus 33,

we see Moses crying out to the Lord

for something that is

so precious.

It's one of my favorite passages in the scripture.

But for the sake of time, in verse 17 of Exodus 33, it says, So the Lord said to Moses, I will do this thing that you have spoken.

And what had he asked for?

He had asked for the Lord.

He said, don't send us to Canaan without you.

I'm happy to be on this land.

It's a miracle.

This house came with the land.

That's a miracle.

It is a miracle.

But I don't want to be here without him.

I don't want to be in heaven without him.

It wouldn't be heaven.

So, what Moses had actually requested was, it was incredibly wise.

Like, only the Holy Spirit could have led him.

He said, He said in Exodus 33, you say, I found grace in your sight.

So he's

talking to the Lord like most people cannot and aren't allowed.

But because there's been this equity, he goes, Lord, you say

that I found grace in your sight.

You said that, Lord.

Then he goes, if I found grace in your sight,

show me your glory.

And he's going, what is grace?

The supernatural presence of the Holy Spirit.

He said,

you're saying I found the presence of the Spirit

in your sight.

And since I have, I'm going to ask for more.

He didn't say, since I found grace, give me a bigger tent in Canaan.

I need six more camels.

He took what he had in God and used it to get more from God, of himself.

So then the Lord says, Okay, that's what I just read to you.

I will also do this thing that you've spoken.

The Lord said, I'll give myself away to you.

For you have found grace in my sight,

and I know you by name.

Now the Lord speaks to the relationship.

He's saying, you and I have something that's different than the rest of the camp of three million.

See, we say God doesn't have favorites.

That's not true, because you can't have favor and not have a favorite.

Being a respecter of persons is different.

When we talk about

favorites or favor, we're talking about

this person can be closer to God than the next person.

That's just the Bible.

God has really close friends and people who've chosen to not draw near.

Wow.

Think it's a mistake Moses and Elijah showed up on the Mount of Transfiguration?

Why not some known name?

Because they'd always been friends of God.

It's the same God.

So here

he says, I know you by name.

And then you hear Moses, oh man, this is so awesome.

He says, show me your glory.

Okay, what is the glory?

Which is really what you're asking.

Verse 19.

I will make all my goodness pass before you.

I.

In other words, he said, I'm coming your way now.

That's the presence of God.

That's the glory.

And I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you.

I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious.

I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.

But he said, you cannot see my face, for no man shall see me and live.

And the Lord said, Here is a place by me, and you shall stand on the rock, speaking of Christ Jesus.

So it shall be while my glory passes, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock.

I will cover you with my hand while I pass by.

So the presence of the Lord is the Lord.

Then I will take away my hand, and you shall see my back.

But my face shall not be seen.

And then in verse chapter 34, the Lord introduces himself.

The Lord, the Lord God, merciful, gracious, long-suffering, abounding in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgressions and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and the children to the third and fourth generation.

Then Moses made haste, bowed his head towards the earth, and worshiped.

So the presence of the Lord is the Lord.

So when we say, unfortunately, in revival culture, we started saying, I feel the presence.

I understand.

I'm not critical, but please be more clear.

Whose?

Whose?

We're talking about Jesus here.

Not some ethereal

jitter.

Right.

When I say I feel the presence of the Lord, I'm saying,

I feel the God of the ages

coming close and revealing himself to me.

That's a totally different thought process.

so

yeah wow yeah

wow um

could we talk about one of the biggest things that people struggle with um in girls gone bible is condemning thoughts

we're noticing at our shows we say how many people feel like god is mad at you most of the room raise their hand wow

Could you speak on,

I've heard many people say, I'm in my word, but I just keep hearing those condemning thoughts.

They're torturing me.

Yeah.

I used to really deal with that a lot.

And

I honestly think I got free from that.

It's not been a long time, maybe five plus years.

And every now and then I'll catch myself saying things like, I just don't want God to be mad at me.

Remember in Reading when...

Well, that's what I was thinking about.

Like when we were talking about...

When they asked you those questions.

I mean, yeah, if you want me to go there.

No, no, no.

Remember, they'd give you like a long-term question.

Yeah.

Yeah, that might help some people.

So

without going too deep in my stories, I know we don't have time for that.

But like, so I just grew up with major issues, rejection, fear, severe fear, like since I was a child.

And

all kinds of pain, trauma, you name it.

And so when we went to Reading, California for a season of our life just to get inner healing for me, really,

he was doing good, but I was pretty, I mean, we were both, our marriage wasn't what it should be.

Like, we were just struggling, but it's because I internally was struggling.

And, you know, I had just had my third child.

And I just think I just, I didn't do a good job of asking for help.

I was trying to like just have it all figured out.

So

I was sitting with someone that was walking us through just some things.

And they said, close your eyes and just say the first thing that comes to mind as soon as I say the word.

And I was like, okay.

And I've never done anything like that before.

And they said,

ministry.

And I said, pain.

And that freaked me out.

Yeah.

Like, whoa,

we've been in ministry.

I mean, I've been in it my whole life.

And so, like, born and raised, and now he's in full-time ministry.

And then they said.

If people knew the real you, what would they say?

And I said, they'd be disappointed.

And he goes, and how do you see yourself?

And I said, worthless.

And like, so we both started crying.

And I started crying because I didn't realize I really thought that of myself.

It still makes me a little emotional because it just like, it takes you back.

And I always, I think maybe

people grow up in church or people that never grew up in church.

There's this thing of like performance that you feel like you have to look a certain way.

You have to stand a certain way when you worship.

You have to look the part.

You have to have everything together.

You have to just be picture perfect.

And that's that's got to die because the Lord is really looking for vulnerability and people that are authentically themselves.

And, like I said earlier, he loves us unconditionally, so he's not going to throw you out with your imperfections.

Like in your weakness, that's when you're really strong because that's when you're clinging to the cross daily.

And so, I would always struggle with the Lord's mad at me, or I would, you know, I'm very human.

We were laughing earlier, like sometimes when I drive and someone cuts me off, I don't like it.

So, you know, I'm spicy still.

I've always been a little spicy, and

you know, I'm just more sanctified spice now, but I'm still myself.

And

sanctified yelling at people.

Well, you know, like, I'm not cursing at them anymore, but I still sometimes like catch myself and I'm like, oh, you know, and I'll, you know, have a thought or I'll just whatever.

I'm still flawed.

Like, we all are still flawed beings.

And I still need Jesus every single day.

And,

but, like, now I'm like, okay, I'm flawed, but I'm bringing it to the Lord.

I'm giving him my issues.

I'm repenting of my sin.

I believe repentance needs to come back to the body of Christ.

And I repent all the time.

I repent almost daily.

And then I give it to the Lord.

And then I like just kind of, the Bible says he drives our sins as far as the east to the west.

It's under the blood.

So I've really had to learn to believe that.

Like either I believe what the Bible teaches or I don't.

So this whole thought process process that a lot of Christians deal with, and I will say I think girls deal with it a lot.

What specifically?

Like this thing, this thought process of God is always angry at us or we can't please the Lord or we can't, am I answering that correctly?

Like there's just this condemnation, it's like we always feel condemned.

You have to really find, I know it sounds so cliche, but have a deep walking relationship with Jesus and actually believe what he says about you and not not what people say about you.

I think we have a deep fear of man issue in our generation where we really care.

And I don't think social media has helped that, by the way.

I think it's only made it worse, where we really care what everybody thinks of us.

Like if we don't get enough likes on an Instagram post, we measure our value in that alone.

And so

dying to that, truly...

dying to self, only worrying about what the Lord says about you.

And actually, this sounds so silly, but speaking words of affirmation, that has helped me so much because I'm like a very tough critic on myself.

And I'm, I've tried to get better with that, but I still find myself doing it.

Just, it's just kind of been something, it's been my nature for so long that I have to sometimes like tell myself, stop it, Jess.

Like, shut up.

Like, just stop saying this about yourself.

Know who you are in the Lord.

And then when I read the Bible, of course, we read it every day, but I speak it out loud a lot because I know that that has helped me personally renew my mindset.

Like saying out loud who the Lord sees of me and like a quick quick story that might help a lot of your listeners.

When I went I went through a really rough season.

When I went to Reading, California that God brought me out of and I had a lot of issues in my life.

And I remember when I started to minister and be used from by the Lord a little bit more and all these things, a lot of people from my past would throw all my weaknesses in my face and be like, you know, we know the real you.

You shouldn't be doing that.

And it's true, the real me was really messed up.

And I remember actually going once to Bill Johnson about that because he walked us through such a dark season, my dark season.

And

he said, you fought hard to get free.

I watched you.

I was with you.

You fought hard to get free from fear and rejection and shame and all these things.

He's like, the Lord does not see you that way.

People will see you this way, Jessica.

He goes, but the Lord sees you as who you are in Him.

And He started to speak life over me.

So I think you need to say it out loud.

Walk with Jesus closely.

Believe what He said about you.

He loves you with an everlasting love.

He loves you so much, He knows the hairs on your head.

This is like, this is,

oh my gosh, the most beautiful love you could ever imagine is the way Jesus loves you.

And then I just remembered who the sun sets free is free.

Indeed, there is no, I cannot be bound when I walk with Jesus.

And simple things like that just set me free.

And then if I still struggle, I'll find people.

And sometimes you have to be really selective with those people because sometimes even the people that you want to be for you,

they love you broken, but you free sometimes is hard.

And

unfortunately, that's the case sometimes.

And I found people that really saw me rightly.

And sometimes when I was feeling even weaker, I'd go, okay, I need you to tell me how you see me.

And they would speak life over me.

And we would partner with heaven.

And that helped set me free from living in condemnation and shame.

Yeah, I think people,

people knowing you and speaking to you, loving you, and you giving them permission.

Yeah.

Even if they get it wrong occasionally, to speak really directly to you.

Yes.

I had that in my life.

I still do.

I had it with Joy Dawson.

Certainly my mom is that.

For all of us.

Her dad is that, and other leaders in the body.

But I had in Joy a laser-like

encourager and

corrector.

But you know, I'll just was talking Proverbs 16, 24 regarding words that are spoken to you.

Pleasant words are like a honeycomb.

sweetness to the soul and health to the bones.

So I don't think we realize the power of conversation, the power of what's spoken.

It, yes, certainly is sweetness of the soul, which is mind, will, emotions, but there's a physical component to negative talk as well.

Yeah, true.

Or the opposite, right?

Pleasant words, the word of God has an effect on the entirety of our being.

And so

just what I used to have a saying, it was always, God's mad at me.

And like,

I remember our friends were like, chill out.

Like, but she grew up with a very,

I think, self-measuring,

you know, reality.

And, and, um,

and she does read her Bible out loud because I used to have to run.

I couldn't, I'd be like one room over.

Like, why do you read out loud?

Like, I have a hard time.

I just retaining information too.

Yeah, I'm actually dyslexic.

You saw earlier when I put the two words, I messed them up.

Like, so I can't retain it if I don't read it out loud.

And I would love to tell your listeners too God can use anybody you don't have to be book smart or say everything right all the time like I schools always was so hard for me now we're getting our masters in theology

like so you know it's it takes me a little longer to get things in him

but

than you like it takes me a little longer like I have to like read the same thing maybe four times for me to like understand what I'm even reading

but the Lord is so beautiful and like with the Holy Spirit he makes makes Jesus so real.

So there's like you understand things in a deeper way.

But if I could read the Bible and love Jesus, anybody can, I promise.

Another thing the listeners could do is write out chapters or maybe start with verses.

Yeah, you do that.

So I do that every day.

I write out,

you know, you could start with Psalm 23, Psalm 91.

John 1, Matthew 5, the Beatitudes.

And just, that's how I memorize scripture is I write.

And it's very,

it's a very spiritual experience.

Today I was writing John 1 and slowly and methodically praying it.

So I think that's a real simple tool for people.

Wow, that is so good.

Yes.

Well, guys, if it was up to us, we'd keep you here all day.

And we wanted to talk with you guys all day.

But do you mind, just quickly before we go, would you just lead people, one of you, to the Lord into one of the cameras?

And

this is how we always end.

Well, I was going to say, you start, and then we'll pray.

You know, before you were ever born, the Lord knew that you would be watching this right now.

He knew you'd be listening.

There is nobody like Jesus.

He knew you'd be facing exactly what you're facing right now.

Even though he doesn't want you in the pit that you're in, he knew you'd be in it.

And he's not panicking, but he is reaching out to you.

Jesus

shed his blood for you.

This is the way he says I love you.

Perhaps you've doubted whether or not God actually loves you.

Listen to what the scripture says.

For God so loved, or in this way God loved, the world, that's everyone, that he gave or offered as a sacrifice his one and only begotten son.

That whosoever, and that includes you,

Whosoever means whosoever

would believe in him will not die.

That word belief means to trust in, to cast your life upon him.

You say, what is death?

Death is separation from God.

The scripture says anyone who believes in Jesus would not die, but have eternal life.

Jesus also said

that if we came unto him,

That we would lose our weariness, basically.

He said, come unto me, all you who are weary.

Are you tired today?

He said, if you're heavy laden, are you carrying the weight of the world?

He said, I'll give you rest for your souls.

You know, that's something a vacation can't do.

It's something riches can't provide.

I've often thought I've been to some of the most beautiful places in the world and I've told the Lord, Lord, this is beautiful, but nothing touches my heart like you do.

He said you would find rest for your soul if you came to Jesus, the person.

The scripture says that if we came unto him or believe in him or receive him, we would be called children of God.

This Jesus shed his blood.

He was nailed to a cross.

He was stripped naked.

He was beaten.

He was whipped until his bones were exposed.

He outstretched his arms in mercy.

And on that cross, he said this, Father, forgive them.

What a heart.

Who says something like that?

Who's being unjustly killed?

He still says, Father, forgive them.

And maybe as you're listening or watching, you're saying, I've done too much.

You don't know me.

I want you to hear the words of the Lord.

Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.

And this same Jesus breathed his last.

And he was buried so that you would not have to stay in the ground or fear the grave.

And he came out of the grave three days later so that one day you would come out to, that your body

would find a brand new body, a glorified body in him, and you would live with Jesus forever.

The grave is not our home.

To the Christians, to the saints, we don't really die.

We sleep.

And so we can face anything, even death, with a smile on our face, knowing that Jesus is overcome.

You say, Michael.

Angela, Ari, Jess, this is what I want.

I want to know him.

Well, I want to pray with you, but I don't want you to just repeat a dead prayer.

I want us together to talk to the Lord.

And the scripture says of the Lord: listen to these words.

Has he who formed the eye,

will he not see you, or does he not see you?

Has he who planted the ear,

can he not hear you?

Jesus is right there with you right now, listening,

watching,

ready to forgive you, to fill you, and make you his own.

Let's pray.

Heavenly Father, repeat this after me.

Heavenly Father,

forgive my sin.

Wash me in the precious blood of Jesus.

Cleanse my soul.

I'm sorry for grieving you.

And I'm sorry for breaking your law.

I come to you today

and I repent

and I turn from this world.

I turn from my sin.

I renounce it.

And I renounce the devil.

And I put all my faith, all my hope,

all my trust

in Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God.

And I believe

and I declare

that Jesus Christ

is born of the Virgin,

lived a perfect and holy life,

a sinless life,

revealed the word and will of the Father in perfection,

suffered,

shed his blood,

died,

was buried,

raised on the third day,

has ascended to the right hand of the Father,

and will return again to judge the living and the dead.

Precious Jesus, receive my life

in Jesus' holy and wonderful name as I receive you.

Amen.

Amen.

Amen.

Thank you, Jesus.

Pastor Michael, Pastor Jessica, thank you, thank you, thank you.

We love you so much.

Your love getting to our teachers.

You're amazing.

Yeah,

may the Lord give you a hunger for his word.

May you both

live holy lives.

And

may you find at the end of your life that you're more in love with him than you are now.

And may he keep you healthy and give you wonderful families.

and children that serve the Lord.

And grandchildren that serve the Lord.

And may you both hear well done, good and faithful servant.

And may you preach his word to this generation in clarity and love and in boldness.

That's our prayer for you.

Thank you, Jesus.

Thank you for all you're doing.

You're a blessing.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for the honor.

I know you guys have a lot going on.

Do you want to be our new co-host?

Do you have time?

I just want to wait.

Yeah, it'd be perfect.

All right, guys, we love you so much.

Thank you for being here.

May the Lord bless you and keep you.

May he make his his face shine upon you and be gracious to you.

May he turn his face towards you and give you peace.

Shalom, shalom, we love you.

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