Judah Smith | Girls Gone Bible

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I hope you know that. I can't wait to introduce you.
I'm Angela. And I'm Ari.
And this is Girls Gone Bible. And as if you are a watcher of us and a listener of us, you guys know that when I'm sitting on this side, it's for a very good reason.
It means that we have a very special person on the podcast. And today we have someone.
Okay, I'm just going to say his name. It's Judah Smith.
Thank you, Jesus, for Judah Smith and Chelsea Smith, your wife. We are so grateful for you, for your lives, for your ministry.
Ari has like the best little story. Oh, yeah.
When I first started my faith, we went to church home and I was in my most broken season I had ever been in. And so I was just carrying the burdens of my heartbreak.
I was just like barely hanging on. And I'm sitting in the third row and me and Angie are looking at you and you were just speaking to my soul.
And you know how sometimes someone will say the most simplest thing to you and it will just pierce your heart and you'll carry it with you. Yeah.
At the end of your sermon, you look at us and you go,

and it's not your burden to carry, give it to God.

And you just kept repeating it and repeating it.

And it hit my soul.

And I still, to this day, will repeat that every time I'll feel the weight of my heartbreak. I'll be like, it's not my burden to carry, give it to God.

And yeah, you marked me that night.

You're just, you're so, so special. You come from the heart and you are just, we're so grateful to have you on today.
Seriously, what an honor. More than you know.
And God knows when we need encouragement and I need it right now and it means a lot. So I appreciate both of you a lot.
And we are, the Smith family is for the both of you and what you're doing is such important work. And I didn't even know.
I mean, we're just talking right now, learning so much of your backstory, both of you. And and I hear the Massachusetts.
How do you say I can never say that? I can't say it. And yet that's where you're from.
But I hear the accent i love it it's still there i know it's very selsy isn't it massachusetts yeah i did it yeah thank you i'm 46 and i can't say where you're from grow up that's okay i still sound like tad oh wow oh man yeah we're so so honored to have you You do so much for so many people, Judah. You really like, you speak to all ages, all generations, but you mark our generation, Gen Z, whatever they are, Gen Y, like what's under that? I don't know, whoever they are.
You just like, you are one of the most relatable pastors probably in the world. That's very nice.
Such an anointed speaker, incredible communicator. And like Ari said, like you said something so simple, but it was so profound.
And that's what I love about your speaking and your preaching is that you don't like jump through hoops to try and get a message across. Like it's very simple.
It's just Jesus, the love of Jesus. And every service that I've ever been to of yours, like it's just Jesus.
Like you just preach Jesus. And you're really funny too.
And you're really funny. One of the best days of my life so far.
So this is going very well. Thank you.
If you could just, we have so many questions for you. And I personally want your insight on so many different things ministry-wise, like how to cultivate intimacy with Jesus.

So many questions.

But if you could just start with your origin, how you found Jesus, your upbringing, how you found Chelsea, your beautiful, beautiful.

His wife is probably one of those most beautiful women I've ever met.

It's crazy.

Yeah, I love her.

Well, my wife and I were born three months apart to two best friends, Marilyn Smith and Jenny Smith, which is kind of wild, right? And they said, let's have a boy and a girl and get them married because they were tennis partners. My dad was a preacher.
His dad was a preacher. His dad was a preacher.
His dad was a preacher. His dad was a preacher, his mom was a preacher, all the way back to a circuit riding preaching woman, woman preacher.
And which is also, I don't know if I'm allowed to even stop and say this, that the fact that you both are stunning, powerful, strong women means the world to me. I believe passionately in the ministry of Jesus towards women and what he did to elevate women and who they are and their voice in the world.
And so I am a feminist. If you look up the definition, it's a definition that I believe in wholeheartedly.
And so I've raised a strong young lady. She's 15, but I hope in a lot of ways she emulates you too.
Was raised by a strong woman who taught me how to shop the malls of America while also reading my Bible and loving Jesus. So we never wear clothes in the Smith family.
We only put on outfits. It's just the way it is.
My dad was a preacher. We traveled to every state in the Union except North and South Dakota.
And my dad preached a seminar that was a two and a half day seminar to young people on destiny, purpose, vision, why you exist, why you're living. And my job from eight to 11 years old was to come on stage at the end of the seminar and share how I almost died three times before I turned two and how I had a destiny and God had a plan for my life and I would be a preacher someday better than my dad.
Cue the crowd cheering. And so I started on stage at eight years old thinking that this is what we do.
Seventh generation preacher. I believe that the greatest thing in the whole world was to tell people about Jesus.
I was in Boston, I might add, and that was my first official speaking engagement. I was 13.
And I spoke and they gave me $100. And I thought, this is the greatest thing in the whole wide world.
But started doing revival services. I traveled to Alaska when I was 16 and started doing, And that was a week revival.
My sister did the morning sessions. I did the night.
And I preached the same sermon for five straight days. And I've been preaching regularly ever since then.
So I'm 46. And I just, Jesus to me is the greatest person in the whole wide world.
And I honestly mean this. Like it's not, I just wouldn't, I don't think I'd still be alive without Jesus.
I know I wouldn't be able to stay married without Jesus. I know I would have ruined my 20, 18 and 15 year old's life if it wasn't for Jesus.
But my dad passed. I was tricked into leading the church in his passing.
My mom is still amazing and beautiful and sexy and single and available. And she's 73 and she looks 53.
And we are looking for a wealthy man. Oh, wow.
You heard it first. Yeah, of all ages.
You can't say that. Wait that so much that's serious actually right is she looking yeah she is that's i'm so happy for her and i mean she's a beautiful poodle and she's she's set financially she has a great retirement and she is like she's like good looking let's go okay we're gonna go We need to insert photo from mom.
Insert photo. I'm literally going to drive from the studio to her house in Palm Springs and see her.
And I'm going to tell her that we did an ad for her. Oh my gosh, amazing.
I love this stuff. I love her.
I want to meet her. She's a force.
You guys, before we get into this incredible episode with Judah Smith, I just want to remind you guys that we are on the Girls Gone Bible live tour. If you want to go to girlsgonebible.com slash tour, you can get your tickets.
Ari and I, gosh, we love you guys so much. It is a dream come true to be in the room with you, to worship Jesus with you, to talk about what Jesus is literally currently doing in our lives, and just to lift the name of Jesus.
It means everything to us. We really, really hope to see you there.
We want to love you, hug you, laugh with you, cry with you. So get your tickets.
And one more thing, you guys know that we're on GGB plus and you guys, I know we always say it, but as if we couldn't get any more real and raw as we do on Girls Gone Bible, GGB plus is the greatest blessing for us because we're having such real conversations,

Ari and I,

like where we're just giving our hearts

and it's so relaxed and it's so freeing.

Honestly, it feels like therapy every time

because we're kind of getting out

all of the thoughts that we don't say anywhere else

and all of the real conversations

about what God is like actively doing in our lives,

probably that day.

If you guys want to go to girlsgonebible.com slash plus and join us on GGB plus. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.
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Ari and I come from probably the exact opposite sort of upbringing. Yes.
We don't come from any generations of Christians. Like my mom is Catholic and both of our families are Catholic.
My mom is definitely a strong believer, but I think it's just, it's just not the same as a really generations of having preachers and really strong Christian believers behind you. And so I think Ari and I sometimes, we hear stories like yours and it just like, it's the most beautiful and it's the most, like we're so grateful that Jesus can have that sort of effect on generations of families and if I'm being honest I think sometimes it grieves our hearts a little bit um and that's just full transparency because every time we hear stories and we love it and it's so inspiring and we know like well this is what we're going to do for our children and their children and their children but it it's just funny.
Sometimes we always feel like a little bit of a ping, like, wow, we can't even imagine having that before us. You know, I think, yeah, sometimes it could just be hard.
Sure, sure. Yeah, oh my word.
We've gotten a rough. Yeah, it's a little rough over here.
I don't know what I'm going to say. But man, if I could just ask you one question about that.
So when you, I know, I know a lot of preachers and a lot of preachers kids. And oftentimes when people grow up in the church, sometimes people can experience just believing in like a moral religion.
And sometimes, oftentimes they have to find their own way. Like they encounter Jesus at a certain age, at a certain time, and they really choose themselves to give themselves over and dedicate their life.
Did you ever have a moment like that? Or was it truly like never a head thing, always a heart thing? No, I think to an extent to probably encourage anyone listening and thanks for listening. That's amazing.

And we should listen to these two incredible souls.

And the platform that God's given you is so incredible. But for anybody listening, I think there's a little bit of that in all of us where you're like, okay, is this going to be something that I kind of just mentally agree with? and saying, like, ah, it makes sense.

I'm just going to go ahead and do this. Because ultimately, Jesus came to sway and swoon the soul and to change us from the inside out in our heart.

But yeah, right?

Like, I think I wrestled with this idea of like, I mean, I wanted to be like my dad.

My dad was my hero.

And he carried a Bible.

And it was like, cool.

And I was like, all right, I just want to be that.

But then all of a sudden, is it real for me? I went through a lot of deep questions, crises, whatever. But I have to admit, I had one of those ecstatic, phenomenal moments where at like 9 or 11, sometimes I forget if it was 9, 10, or 11, but I was in Idaho and I heard one of the clearest things, almost the audible voice of God, you'll be a voice to this generation.
And it like shocked me. It gave me like chills in my spine kind of, and I was like, and I ended up telling my dad, he was speaking at the time, and I ended up telling him.
And that kind of marked me. I knew I had heard a voice.
I knew I had heard someone talk to me. And I can't take any credit for that.
You know, like I hear preachers say like, I spent time seeking God. And my story is just a little different.
I felt like God took time seeking me. And he just found me and he spoke to me and he romanced me.
Like I feel I always tell, not always, but pretty regularly I tell Jesus, if you keep showing up, I'll do anything you want. But if you stop showing up, you know, I can't do this.
I just can't do it. So, you know, and sometimes that's like you can go a day.
Sometimes I can't go a few more hours unless I feel like he's in the room and he's there. So it's going to be pretty hard for me to get through this.
But anyways, I get emotional pretty fast because, yeah, I just can't imagine taking the most beautiful person in the world and turn it into like principles and morals and things to live by when he's a person to live with. Right.
So and I mean, the truth is, like, I feel, you know, I walked into the studio and I'm like, well, I think these girls know Jesus and I appreciate that a lot.

So we're going to be a mess here.

This is going to be a mess.

This is going to be a mess.

Can I ask you what you do to keep your relationship strong with Jesus?

Yeah, I mean, again, I can barely take credit because, you know, Jesus said, um, in Matthew 29, right. I think it's Matthew 29.
I got to get my verses right. I'm on girl girls, girls gone Bible.
So I really got to like, you know, I want to be, I want to be boys gone Bible too. So, but, um, it's Matthew 29.
I'm not great with addresses and all that. But he says, are you weary? Are you burned out on religion? Get away with me.
Yeah. And I'll show you how to take a real rest.
And that's the story of my life. Like I was just before this.
I like don't do that many interviews. But before this was doing like a print interview.
And they asked about my daily disciplines. And I said, I got to tell you, like, I don't feel like a very disciplined person.
I'm a very random, like spontaneity is how I keep living. If you schedule me too much, I just feel like I'm dying.
So that's not for everybody, but for that, that's how I work. And so I get up every morning and my little routine is so embarrassing.
but's like um I take a bubble bath and I just get away with him and man it's the wildest thing like I don't know it gets crazier and crazier because um and I blame you both for this emotion and I'm I try not to look at you because I'll cry more. But the amount of times, like, dude, I feel so average and so broken.
And I just, sometimes I just want, I just need more money or I just need, like, you know, more stuff or more things or more sex. I just feel so ridiculously average.
but I'm telling you, man, like I get in this bathtub and it's like I feel him again and he just like talks to me and I'm like, I don't know why I get to have this life. But, you know, and I love what he loves.
And so I end up loving my wife and loving my kids and wanting to like tell people about Jesus. And people are like, bro, you're so dedicated.
You're so disciplined. And like, thank you for not like quitting on your marriage or like being a good dad.
And I'm like, dude, I'm not that guy. I just, he just keeps showing up in the bathtub, as weird as that sounds.
And it's not even that I read the Bible more than anybody else or that I pray hours. Sometimes people ask me, how long have you been? How long do you pray? And sometimes it's really long and I don't even realize it's long.
And sometimes it's really short, but he just shows up and I can't take any credit for that. I promise you ladies, if I could, I would.
He just keeps meeting me and he'll tell me things and he'll assure me and he'll help me forgive people. And like, I end up loving people that really hurt me that I want to fight and I want to be angry at.
So I don't know, man. He just keeps taking things from my life that are bad, like anger and rage.
And I get mad at people and angry. And it's just like another day comes and he's like, I'm going to take this and it's enough.
And I got you and I love you. So that really is my story.
And if it was something else, I would tell you. But that is my story.
But this is why you are. Thank you for being so honest.
Exactly. Thank you so much.
But this is why you are who you are and why you have the impact that you do. Because it's just so simple.
We don't need like who? Is it Paul that writes? I'm going to ask you because you would know. Paul writes, like, it's not by impressive words.
It's not like you're not supposed to sit here and be all wordy and impressive and intellectual and all the things. Like, simple message, Jesus.
That's what you do. And even in this, like, we're all emotional because you have such a genuine revelation of the love of God.
And yeah, I think, you know, Ari and I, maybe you could speak to this a little bit for us, but Ari and I are in such a interesting position where like we're on this platform and we just want to do a good job for Jesus. Like we just want to, every word that comes from our mouth, we want it to glorify Jesus.
We want to never say anything that contradicts scripture. And so we have immense amount of pressure that we put on ourselves.
And I'll speak for me personally, there's, I've probably spent the last year of my life just letting Jesus break performance off of me because I'm, I'm, I find myself probably the first year of doing this, of having so much pressure. And I am literally begging him to just, to make me be the person that he's called me to be.
And I'm, I just like need to perform and I need to be smart and I need to know everything and I need to be able to pull scripture out when I can. And then he literally meets me in the middle of it.
And he's like, would you stop? That's not what I'm calling you to do. I'm like going into my quiet time and I'm seeing how I just feel this like sportsmanship in me.
I'm climbing a ladder in the spiritual like Olympics trying to get somewhere. And then I realized like, I didn't fall in love with Jesus so that I could be somebody for him one day.
I fell in love with Jesus because I needed a savior. That's right.
I was really, really, really, really in a bad spot. And he saved my life.
And like, I don't need. And so I've spent the last year of my life, like really settling into the fact that he loves me when I don't do anything.
I don't need to do anything. And so could you just talk about, because you have a true

revelation of the love of God, of the love of Jesus. Could you just talk about that? Because

so many people don't know how to accept the love of Jesus. I mean, that's such an incredible

question and comments. And thank you for that.
I've never said this before, but as you're saying

this, I'm thinking of when some of the disciples are going to the temple to pray and there is a lame man or blind man asking for silver and gold. Because in that condition in antiquity, you wouldn't be able to work, right? So you'd have no income.
And I'm sure he's just looking for money for food and whatever. And remember what, I think it's what Peter says.

Might have been Peter or John, but it was Peter and John together.

Peter did most of the talking.

John did most of the feeling, right?

And Peter says, hey, I don't have silver and gold.

But I'll tell you what I do have.

Rise up, take up your bed and walk.

I think there's something in that.

The ability to say what you don't have. And you know what happened to me? I started to try to give people what they asked for.
We need you to do this. Hey, Girls Gone Bible, we need you guys to address this and answer this and fix this.
Well, I don't have that. I don't know.
I've never studied that or I've never, well, this podcast has changed my life, so we need you. And I think the power of boundaries and limitations and saying, I don't have that, I think that's underestimated.
To be able to look at the masses and the platform and say, hey, I don't have that, but I tell you what I do have, what I do have. And I got to be honest with you.
I've preached whole sermons. I might've wrote books on stuff I didn't even have, but I was trying to have it because people need it.
So you're just like, dude, I'm going to like, all right, I don't have that, but I'm going to try to pretend like I have it. Or I'm going to like, remember a couple of things from people who do have that.
But what do I have? And I, and I And I think a lot of the reason you two resonate so deeply with so many different generations and so many different people around the world, I mean, for those watching who don't realize what's happened to the two of you and what God has done using your voices is nothing short of miraculous and transcendent. But I think it's happened because you're giving what you do have.
So it comes out of you like life, and it comes out like a river, as opposed to kind of faking it till you make it, which is I did so much of that it's embarrassing. But I've decided like, what do I do have? My story is my story.
I am who I am. I'm random, abstract, kind of an artist.
and I'm not like, I don't know if sometimes like I got here like five minutes late, which is my new thing.

I'm going to try to be on time.

But being on time is such a challenge for me, which is humiliating and embarrassing.

And my wife was here.

She'd say, don't share that.

But like, here's what I have.

And I'll tell you what I do have.

I don't even know it all.

But I mean, I know Jesus and he meets me.

And if I can share from that and that ministers to people, so be it. For some people, if it doesn't resonate, let me show you other preachers that might work for you.
I got great friends who also, right? And so like, I just applaud the two of you because I think you've really maybe not even knowingly have just given what you have as opposed to making up stuff you don't have. And I applaud that because it comes out genuine and authentic.
And I don't want to spend any more of my life, man. I'm facing 50 right around the corner.
I'm just going to be who I am. but also be the one that's the quickest to go, hey, if you need something else, can I recommend a bunch of different amazing podcasts

or people or therapists who can help you? But I can give you what I got. And what Jesus gave me is special to me, and I'm going to use it till the day I die.
I don't know if that totally answers what was a beautiful question, but it's definitely helped me. That's beautiful.
And I think that's so helpful for us too. I think Ari and I both encourage each other every time.
We usually take turns. We always say this.
We always take turns having breakdowns. If she's having one, I'll be good.
But then all of a sudden I'll start having one. She's like, oh, got to toughen up, got to help her.
And so we just take turns. And so we always remind each other, like, it's in you.
You live this. That's right.
We don't have to be anything except literally what we live. Now, if it wasn't authentic to us, if we didn't spend every day with God, if we didn't live with God and learn from Him every day and hear from Him every day, we'd be in trouble because we have nothing to say.
But we don't have to be anything except what we are in this very moment. And in

10 years, I imagine we'll be a lot more something, educate all the things, but like for right now,

what we have is more than enough, you know, because there's so many people. So that is so

beyond encouraging. That's sustainable too.
You know, me being me, okay, I can do that.

But being somebody else, I'm not, I think that's the stress and strain and the burnout oftentimes

that happens. Oh, absolutely.
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And if you don't like it, you can return your Jolie for a full refund within 60 days, no questions asked. Can you, so many of us go through shame.
We're going to these shows and people turn from God. They're just like, I've messed up too many times, made too many mistakes.
He won't accept me. They're just living in chains and shame.
Can you talk a little bit, and that coincides with the love of God and shame, and can you just talk to people about that? I mean, I'm overwhelmed, Ari, the moment you ask that question because few things matter more to me in the whole wide world. So there's this thing that happened with the Bible that a lot of people don't know about.
There is this scripture and I can't remember the address right now. I probably should have looked it up before the show started since we've gone Bible.
But it is there is now therefore, you probably know the address, no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Later, in the canon of scripture, we can get into all the minutia, but we won't.
There was an addendum, if you will, added. And the research shows, it's true, that later, over centuries, as this book, this magical, mystical book has been passed down.
It's extraordinary. And by the way, the whole point of the book is to point you to a person.
Not just don't know the book and not know the person. Because you can know the person, right? Don't miss the forest for the trees.
But there was an addendum that was added. There is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus for those who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
By all accounts, that latter part was added because the weight of there is just no more condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus was too hard for earlier Christians to actually accept that they added this idea. Well, that must be true, though, for those who live according to the Spirit.
Now, I urge everyone to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh, of course. That's in other parts of Scripture, and that's a true statement.
But as far as it goes to shame, shame has been canceled. I'm going to try to make this clear.
The work of Jesus, six hours he hangs on the cross, he says seven statements. His lungs are filling with blood, so the excruciating agony of even uttering anything is beyond that which we can comprehend and compare.

One of the last, I believe it's his sixth statement, which is the number of man, he says, it is finished.

We've got to ask the question, what's finished?

What is complete?

And if you look up that word, it literally means period, end, done.

Nothing to be added, nothing to be taken away.

It is complete and finished.

Well, what is finished?

What was finished was shame and guilt that comes with the error of our ways, sin.

A lot of people are going to be taken away. It is complete and finished.
Well, what is finished? What was finished was shame and guilt that comes with the error of our ways, sin. A lot of people don't like the word sin.
Sin simply means missing the mark. Sin is very simple to describe.
It's the selfish things we do that hurt ourselves and others. People say, I don't believe sin exists.
Let me slap your mom and then we know sin exists, right? I mean, we know right and wrong. We know there's bad and good.
Like, I mean, you know what I mean? Like, it's just a no brainer. We can all, you know, contest in, but we can't contest good and bad.
So all the bad things we've done, if you look at our society and the contracts, constructs of the whole wide world, we have we have this inherent system called the justice system, though it is flawed. Where do we get that concept? This idea that if you harm me or I harm you, something must be rectified.
Something must be justified. Something there must be, you must serve time for what you've done.
Where did we come up with that? Well, that's, it was put in our makeup. God in his justice system has exonerated us.
How? Extinguished all of his wrath. How? He is a just God and a perfect God.
He did it in the body and person of Jesus. He put on skin and bone, moved into the neighborhood, and took upon his body all of the judgment, the just right judgment of God in the body of Jesus, those hours he hung on the cross some 2,000 years ago.
He said, it is finished. Now, translate to that scripture, there is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
There's a period there. That literally means, condemnation means shame, guilt, and the pain that comes with all that.
It is complete and finished. I believe the greatest challenge of the age and all of the ages is whether or not each successive generation will absorb and accept the outlandish, unrelenting, illogical, finished work of Jesus, which says, no matter what Ari and Angela ever do, if you have accepted the free gift of Jesus, you are forgiven forever.
Forever. It's done.
Now, that's hard for us to accept because we are do good, get good kind of people. Our whole system down here is do good, get good.
You do bad, you get bad. That's how it works.
That's called justice. Jesus has exhausted his wrath.
Sorry, God has exhausted his wrath in Jesus. And now shame is complete.
That's the part of like the message we have to share with the world. I'm like, how is that not our headline, guys? How are we not telling the world that they're forgiven by simply, you know, earn it or deserve it or warrant it.
No resume needed. Just simply say, okay, I accept that he took my place.
It's done. Wouldn't that, Judah? Your life needs to change.
It doesn't need to change. I think it will, but it doesn need to change to be justified and forgiven? It's simply the free gift of Jesus and you can accept that.
That to me, how is that not the goodest news in the world? How can we not tell the world that the message of Jesus is not tradition and morals and to-do lists? It really is the acceptance of free forgiveness. Now from that place, now let's go explore all the things that God offers us to live this full, wonderful, abundant life.
That's so good. Don't even start with giving us the gospel.
All right, don't even start. Don't even start, Judah.
Girls Gone Gospel. Gosh, that's so good.
Everything. Thank you, Jesus.
I could sit here and listen to the gospel just on replay all day long. Me too.
It's all we need. Yeah.
The gospel is enough. Don't you think? I promise.
It's enough. It's the good news.
Man. I'm just like, okay, anyways.
Leads us to change. On the topic of shame.
Yeah. What do you say to people who lived a certain life, lived in the world, and then they give their life to Jesus and they're aware that their shame is paid for, their past is paid for.
However, it's still hard to reconcile, even in your own heart, who you are now in Jesus versus who you were before him. And to add on to that, when other people have trouble accepting, like they know redemption, like they understand grace, but they still are not Jesus.
So it's hard for them to look at you as the righteousness of Christ, like Jesus does, like God does. So what do you say to people who are dealing with shame from their past

because other people are using it against them

or other people see them a certain way because of their past?

Ironically, I think it starts with going, they're not wrong.

Like I've had critics.

You too have critics.

The moment you have any platform now in today's technological boom,

immediately you're going to have people that just critique you. Critique isn't always bad.
Feedback isn't always bad. Today it's a lot of bad.
It's really painful. I mean, we watched the Super Bowl and it's like, man, all of a sudden, you lose the Super Bowl and you are getting critiqued by the whole wide world.
I'm like, these guys made it to the Super Bowl. You know what I mean? It's something to be said.
So that's the world we live in. Right.
So what I have kind of tried to, tried to, to, to channel, so to speak, is like when people are like, you know, I don't think Judah's a good guy. I'm like, yeah, good point.
I don't think, I don't think I am. I think literally, I think guilty as charged.
Like you're, he did this and he did that. And now some of those things I didn't do, but am I capable of doing them? Yeah.
I mean, man, guilty is charged. But Jesus made up the difference in my life.
If not for the grace of God, there go I, said the old psalmist, right? There go I. In other words, in all of the critiquing and the feedback frenzy we're in in today's world, what I love about the way of Jesus is that Jesus teaches this idea of like,

you see yourself in others.

Yeah.

I met with a therapist one time, really creepy, like in the side room of like,

it was like 8 p.m. in this church in the middle of L.A.

because someone recommended meeting with him.

He was a nice guy, but it was very weird.

And I got there, and one of the first things he said to me, true story, this is wild. wild he said do you know the only difference between me and a murderer and i was like i love him i was like uh and i'm like how to it's like dimly lit office i you cannot make this up i'm gonna put this in a show someday and i go no he goes i haven't murdered anyone yet he's probably from massachusetts he was from boston i'm kidding i didn't know that but his point was like we're all capable of of really embarrassing gross things yeah but but the grace of god and so when it comes to like i i've defended myself so many times and i think oftentimes it's wasted energy because ultimately like people are going to say what they're going to say here's a crazy thought my friend texted me the other day he said you ever noticed jesus never fixed whispers? He never fixed them.
He never went over and said, hey, I'm perfect. Don't say that.
He just kept it moving. And I think there's something too, like when people can't accept that you're new and that you've changed, it's kind of, well, Lord, I trust them to you because I know who I am.
And there's a couple of people that I need them to know that I am who I am. And that's my wife, my kids, maybe my friend Joe over here I've known since he was 16.
But you can't please everybody all the time. And there's going to be people that are going to want to remind you.
I mean, I got high school buddies who were like, this big preacher guy, remember when? And I'll be like, yeah, bro. And guess what? I'd still be that guy if it wasn't, you know, whatever.
So I just urge everybody, your energy, your stamina, your strength, your virtue, as the scripture says, is so valuable. And if you spend it defending your redemption or defending your transformation, sometimes it just gets really, really taxing and exhausting.
Totally. I don't know if that's even the question you were asking, Angela.
Yeah, it is. Yeah, absolutely it is.
You're literally one of the funniest people I've ever met. One of the most manic people you've ever met.
I can't tell you that much. I love it.
I can't tell you that much. Okay.
I have questions to ask too, but this isn't my podcast, but I might. I might ask questions.
Oh, my gosh. You said, oh, no.
Like, who does that? This is not your podcast. I'm just saying if you want me to, I could ask questions too.

Well, yeah. I mean, if you have any questions, we are here to answer.
I do have one thing I was thinking about asking you. So, again, Ari and I are in this world of, you know what's so funny is we have people on and like, yes, it's for them.
It's for us. Like, you're here for us.
That's so how I feel. I'm with you on that.
Yeah. And so we, Ari and I are in this world of podcasting and Christian entertainment in a sense.
Like we know that this is an entertainment, but it could be classified as that. And then we also have this phenomenon of like Christian celebrities.
And so I am also, so I'm in this world of like podcasting and all this stuff.

And I'm around so many beautiful Christians who their faith is real and they have purity in their hearts for what they do. And then I'm sure there's a lot of people in this space who don't have purity in their hearts, who aren't really about Jesus, who do want to be faithful.
All the things, you know what I mean? Sure, sure, all the things. And then I noticed that, you know, sometimes in the local church, for example, there could be people who are really skeptical of the celebritization.

Is that a word?

Yeah, I think so.

Okay, cool.

I like it.

If it's not, it should be.

Okay, it's like Christians on social media and all the things.

And I'm just wondering, like, how you relate to that, what you think of that.

Because I know oftentimes if I'm in a space where people aren't familiar with the world that we're coming from, there's always skepticism. Well, first of all, a couple of things.
I think everyone's motives are mixed at best. Totally.
And I think once we put that on the table, it's like, okay. Secondly, celebrityism.
Wait a second. People think this is a modern construct.
People think this is a new idea. Let's not get it twisted.
Jesus was a celebrity. I don't think people realize, like, I'm really mean this.
Now, they didn't have maybe the C word celebrity back then, but like he was popular. He was moving souls and hearts.
Do you know that the scripture says that God sets one up and puts another down? So God wants us to know, I control who has the influence in this way. So now you, wait a minute, I've heard people say, I don't think Christian celebrityism is bad.
And it's what, well, let's deconstruct that for a moment. What you mean is people that are bold about their faith who have influence you don't like, that's always been the case, though.
Historically, that's always been true. They've always been, there's always been men and women that have had sway and influence in culture.
What's exciting to see is two incredible women who are like, hey, we'll step up to the plate if that's what God has for us. And we'll use our voice, even at the risk of being misunderstood.
And even at the risk of portraying ourselves as really cool, awesome, fun, young ladies who love Jesus and love life. I'm going to tell you something.
If you have too much fun, people are not going to like it. That's a big part of this too.
It's like, don't be having too much fun doing what God called you to do because this is serious work. And honestly, we are taking ourselves way too seriously in this world.
There's only one savior and we are not him. So if we can't smile and take ourselves like, honestly, this is hilarious.
That I'm a preacher is hilarious. That we get to do this is hilarious.
I know. Come on.
It is. It's very funny.
It's been lifted off of me. Ladies, you're amazing.
There's always been people of influence. Somebody told me the celebrity culture is dead.
I hope the attitude of we're better than you because we're famous, we hope that's dead. But people of influence and sway and renown, it's always been and always be.
And God gives those platforms and they're sacred. And I just want to say to you too, nobody gave you this platform.
God gave you this platform. You didn't even give it to yourselves.
You couldn't. God gave you sway with human souls.
It's like the wind. Who can harness the wind? God can.

And he gave it to you.

And that's why I mean it.

I applaud you both.

It is no small, easy thing.

And I just think it's awesome.

Hope to a lot of young men and young women who look at you and go, wait, you can be fun and cool and happy and serve Jesus and make a difference.

Oh, I'm down for that. So thank you.
Thank you. Thank you for saying that.
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Topic of love, you and Chels. Chels is, she literally is actually like an angel.
You're so lucky. I, you have no idea.
I mean, I'm sure you look at her and you're like oh he's real like god's real because she's proof yeah and so you guys have been married for 25 years and both of you you know fortunately grew up with parents that were together and like what do you just tell us a little bit about it and i know people ask that secret, whatever, but just, you know, and you, Chelsea posts on Instagram a lot on Mondays and she says marriage Mondays, right? And so you guys have a lot to offer people who are married and we're not married. So I always feel bad that we don't have things to offer married people.
We do. We just don't know if it's right.
Thank God. We try.
Your singleness speaks volumes, though, and gives so much purpose and direction and hope. So I hope you know that.
And when the time is right, I did bring a list of eight guys I want us to consider on air. I'm kidding.
Can you imagine? You both looked at me like, are you serious, bro?

Yeah, I mean, I just think people are heroic.

And I think people who come from broken families, can I just say, like, I just think they're extraordinary.

And the challenge that that comes with.

And like you said, Chelsea and I had really, like, strong, present dads, for instance.

And all the research is there, even what that does. And moms that we're nurturing.
And so, I mean, is that a head start? And then some, I mean, you can't even begin to describe, but marriage is wild, man. And it's, I once had a preacher tell me marriage is a dance, but he said, listen to me, you're on the dance floor and you're dancing and the music change.
The music will change and they won't give you any heads up. And when the music changes, just promise me you'll keep dancing.
Even if you step on each other's toes. Even if you feel awkward and wonky.
You've ever been on a dance floor? Chelsea and I actually love to go dancing. We really do.
It's so much fun. Which also is weird because I'm always worried that Christians are going to be somewhere where we're dancing and they're going to be offended.

But I'm like, ah, whatever.

And that has been such a metaphor for us.

Like, you know, we had kids.

Keep dancing.

Kids are growing up.

Keep dancing.

Church, things happening in the leadership.

Keep dancing.

Friends come and go.

Keep dancing. Pain.
Keep dancing. Loss.
Keep dancing friends come and go keep dancing uh pain keep dancing loss keep dancing health crisis keep dancing um and we've just committed that she's my partner man like i really like her and i'm also like too tired to start again do you know what i mean like i just like i'm really into this you don't want to get out there believe me the way you said that you're like you're like, you do not. I have never.
I have never. It's scary.
I hear that Boston accent. I have never.
You do not want to go out there. That is what I sound like.
It's much better. You sound much better than that.
You have my utmost respect. I really mean that.
I just think the world of people who date these days. I mean, it's a lot.
And I really mean that my heart goes out to all of you. I feel really inadequate and not really equipped to be the best counsel to that.
Chelsea has done a lot of research. Chelsea's getting her master's degree.
She's getting her PhD. Chelsea's writing a book, by the way, it's called like I do daily.
It's a marriage Monday thing. And it's on our marriage because she's the one who actually like has a lot of brilliance and understands why a lot of even some of the elements of our marriage works and how people can stay together and find romance again and love and all that.
So it's going to be really good. I've not even read it guys.
I really have not read the book. I'm excited about it.
She made me read two chapters that she was worried about and I said, I like them them in so um she's pretty honest and everything but um yeah i just i don't know more than anything i think on the topic like i just um you know it's hard it's like anything else anything that's like worthwhile can just be like really painful yeah and you think like something's wrong with you and i've had so many times in our marriage like something's really badly wrong like we're doing this so wrong and then i found out from like behind the scenes when preachers really are honest they're like i don't know we're the same things happen to us and i'm like are we gonna tell everybody like because we're like we're preaching to them on sundays and we're not telling them that like you i'll never forget we were in hawaii of all places and for the first time in our marriage it's like seven years into our marriage chelsea looked at me and she literally said because the d word we're not that we outlawed some words so the divorce was an outlawed word because someone said like if you don't say it it's far less likely to happen yeah but she looked at me and she goes i don't know if this is gonna work wow and i was like and she's like and i serious, which is one of our codes because like if I tickle her, we wrestle. If she says I'm serious, I have to stop.
It's like our one rule because you're stronger than me, whatever. And so she goes, and I'm serious.
And I was like, I stayed out in the, I was sitting on the couch. She went to bed and I was like, oh God.
And it wasn't, I hadn't like done anything terrible. I just was so preoccupied with everything in our life.
Totally. And she's like, you just don't have time.
Like, I don't know if this is going to work. But I thought if anyone ever found out that my, like, childhood best friend and the only girlfriend I've ever had seven years in told me this isn't going to work, I was like, no one can ever know that.
Yeah.

Because no one else that happens to.

And then I started talking ladies to all my friends.

So freeing. Oh, bro, that happens like every weekend.

Yeah.

I'm like, when are we going to tell everyone?

Yeah.

It's so helpful.

That like we're all really going through this.

I know.

I know.

And we feel like something's wrong with us.

I know.

When you know you're not alone.

So, okay.

So in that case, when you're going through a moment where you're like, I don't think

I can do this.

What do you do? What are some tools that you guys did to come together? Is it therapy? Is it praying together? What would you say? Immediately call trusted people and ask them, are we crazy? What's going on? And sat down. There's an advantage to that too, and I realize that.
Some people are like, well, I don't have anyone to sit with um i do think therapy i do think getting an objective view you know and i know we have different sponsors and things so i won't start naming different companies and things but the different resources we have and we've used but i really believe um there is a point where you got to do whatever it takes and what i mean by that is like I just got to get some eyes on this. I got to get somebody from kind of outside of the emotion to say, how are we doing? And we got more open and honest than we'd ever been.
I think that was the goal. I look back, what was the purpose of it all? It was just to get more open and honest.
And that has served us because that wasn't going to be the last time that happened. So good.
So good. It's just so good.
And like marriage is probably the most refining thing. I mean, it's like it's like not like, yes, marriage is supposed to be fun.
Like I'm not married, obviously, but I can I know enough. Like it's not even like it's not about being fun.
Like when they say it's not about making you happy, it's about making you you holy it's because it's the one relationship where like you're just so close to someone they become a mirror and they put like it's just it's just so refining man if you want to do your own thing don't get married oh yeah married by the way i have single adult friends and i'm like brilliant yeah there is an option here guys, and it's to not get married. That is an awesome option.
You know, like I have friends who are like, we didn't have kids. I'm like, how did you know to do that? That's brilliant.
That's amazing. Yeah.
I didn't know that was an option. I really mean that.
I think there are some people who are called to, you know, not get married. But maybe there's something there too.
Like if you feel like you're supposed to, then you probably should. Yeah, totally.
But, like, I knew I was supposed to get married. And then suddenly, I don't know, I was like, yeah, I'm supposed to marry this girl.
Like, she's the one. And that has served me well in difficult times.
But refining? Oh, man. You let a human live with you and lay in the same bed with you, and they get to see you're good, bad, and ugly.
There's no hiding, man. Tiny Jesus.
It's hard. It's so, okay, and, like, this is going to sound so weird, but the closest thing that we have to marriage is each other because we are in a ministry partnership.
Oh, yeah. And, like.
With each other all the time. We're with each other all the time.
We travel together. We have our own hotels, but we choose the same, the same one.
Like we're just like together always, always, always. And then we're in doing ministry together.
We're like in meetings together, all the things. And this relationship is so unbelievably refining.
We've been training partners for our marriage. Like I'm not even kidding.
It's so, we have, it's so exposing when you get so close to somebody. And then it's like you have an option do you press in and you lean in and i think this is just good for people in relationships and friendships is that when you get so close to somebody it can be so exposing and so vulnerable that oftentimes the best case scenario is to leave because it's hard being seen like when somebody sees you and they see you at your best and your worst, like nobody wants to be seen at their worst.
And so, yeah, I mean, we're just like in such a beautiful season of leaning in. We're the closest people to each other.
And it's like hard sometimes, you know, and it's can be really uncomfortable, but the reward of leaning in and pressing in and. And not giving up.
Yeah. And not giving up and committing and being like, I'm going to do everything I need to do to make sure that this relationship is healthy.
It's so beautiful and it's lost on us. Wow.
You know? Yeah. I mean, iron sharpens iron.
It doesn't say like pillow and pillow. Yeah.
It's iron. The metaphor from scripture is is iron like sharpening each other totally which infers friction which can produce fire and a incredible flame that can change the world but like man friction is just going to happen no matter who you are exactly jesus was perfect yeah and judas cheated on him and stole from him.
You know what I mean? Like, so you can be the perfect partner and you're still, somebody can do something nasty to you. Totally.
So it's funny how we think we're going to be exempt. You know what I mean? Like you ever met with people like we're going to be business partners, but we don't ever have issues.
And you're like, oh, sweeties, I don't want to tell you this, but you're going to. And are like, oh, you're just old.
And I'm like, well, I am getting older. But like, I'm telling you, but friction is also like, it can be powerful.
It's so beautiful. It can be awesome.
So thank you for embracing your friction with each other and challenging each other. I think we all benefit, to be honest, from it.
That's why so many people don't want to get married. They don't want to be, they don't want that confrontation.
So I think it's just really encouraging to know that that's actually a really good thing. And it's not just supposed to be in love, happy-go-lucky all the time.
It's not. Like, that's not what Jesus lived for at all, you know? He lived to be like the Father, to be fully devoted to the Father.
And like, That's what our relationships do, you know he lived to be be like the father to be fully devoted to the father and like that's what our relationships do you know anyways that's beautiful i'm glad to be here for this moment the father the father blessed it our father our father who art in heaven why church home um Um, Well, okay. So I'll say this.
I'll say this. I'm just cataloging in it and I'll keep it concise.
But so I was doing like at one point like 11 to 14 sermons a week. We had six locations in Seattle, maybe five.
I would speak sunup to sundown. I would speak, my first sermon would be like 8 a.m.
The last one would be like 10.30 p.m. in Seattle.
And then I would fly to L.A. and we would have church not far from here at the Montage.
And then I woke up one day and I like didn't know where I was. I didn't really know what year it was.
But everyone just kept telling me like, well, you got to keep going because it's growing. And you know that I was reminded that scripture of prosper and being healthy even as your soul prospers.
My soul was not prospering. Everything else was, but my soul was weary.
In that state, God just started to speak to me about this change of posture. And there's the story where Jesus goes to a Pharisee's house, Simon the Pharisee.
And that's where the woman who brings the perfume and starts to wash his feet. And she's a woman of the night.
She's a prostitute. And there's a moment where I think it's Luke.
Dr. Luke is more descriptive in his gospel.
He gives us more details like a true doctor. And it says, Luke says that Jesus turns and is now facing the woman, but says to

Simon, Simon, I have something to say to you. And I'm not saying this is how everyone should make

decisions in their life, but this is how it happens to me. God said to me one day, took me to that

store and he says, I'm going to ask you to change your posture. This is what I'm going to ask you

to do. And Simon, who he loved, Simon representing, Simon was a Pharisee, but Simon representing the church.
I'm not saying the church is all Pharisees at all. We're not.
I mean, we all have Pharisees and Pharisaical ways in us, you know. But I love the church.
The church is my family, my home. I love all of the churches.
All my friends are, you know, preachers. It's all awesome.
But he said, I want, I'm going to ask you to face the woman. I'm going to ask you to face the world.
Will you do that for me? I was like, man, I'll do anything. Yeah.
Like, of course I'm dumb and happy. And I'm like, yeah, well, it's not a problem.
It's okay. I'm going to ask you to change kind of your approach.
And I'm going to ask you to change. And I felt like God shared with me, like, you only have so much virtue.
Remember when people would, that one guy, that one guy, one gal touched Jesus and he said, I felt virtue go out for me. Virtue is what we like to call energy, whatever it's.
And you only have so much. And people talk about time management, schedule management, but really virtue management is where the magic's at.
How much can you, you only have so much virtue to give, right? Like after this podcast, all three of us will probably at some point be like, whew, that was a lot. It was emotional.
We focused. Like we gave a lot of energy to that.
Well, you can't do that all day, every day. And you can't do it for everybody.
Even Jesus couldn't in his physical, visible, limited form. He said, I felt virtue go out.
So I was doing so many services. I was doing 14 live events a week.
So I only had so much virtue for my neighbors. I didn't know my neighbors, guys.
I didn't know. I didn't meet them.
I didn't love them. I didn't know.
Well, I was writing sermons. I was preaching.
I was live events, right? This was my life. So I felt like God said, I want you to give you virtue.
And so we changed our staff. So we went from city church to church home, church home, but church in your home.
And we thought we will harness technology. We also realized that there was a phenomenon called transfer growth.
Transfer growth is a phenomenon that happens in the church. It's not a bad thing.
It's a very normal thing. And that is essentially, we just trade people.
And that there was basically about six to seven million Christian buyers in America, and they kind of, they move churches a lot. There's nothing wrong with that.
I'm not against that. I just realized we had, we had, this church had reached about 15,000 in Seattle.
It got really big and everyone's like, this is amazing. And then I was like, wait, what? And we, we did the numbers and we noticed it was a lot of transfer growth.
And I just was like, man, I want to reach like, like I had a lot of friends that don't know Jesus, still a lot of friends that don't know Jesus. And it's like, man, I want them to know the forgiveness of Jesus.
So we decided we are going to go after people that have no context for church, no context of Jesus. I still preach to the church, just like Jesus was still talking to Simon.
But he changed his focus and his posture. And what church home exists for is not everybody, which is a funny little thing, because everyone, like the moment you make a shift, like, you know, meet in your homes, use technology, people are like, you've abandoned.
It's like, no, no, no, no. First of all, church home wasn't ever going to reach everybody.
Yeah. It's that happens through the, all of us doing our part.
But I realized that we had an opportunity to reach people that otherwise wouldn't come to a building. By the way, I love buildings.
I'm in a building now. I still preach in buildings.
I think buildings are great. But we just figured we could reach more people.
And I got to tell you, these last month and a half, we are growing, reaching more people than we've ever reached before. And one of the reasons I'm at this desk is because I believe that what you're doing is so sacred and so holy and so important because what's happening using this platform is we are reaching, you know, remember, I'm a seventh generation preacher.
So if it doesn't happen in the pulpit, it doesn't really happen. You know, it's this idea that like, man, you got to be in church, but you two are a part of the church.
You're an extension of the church. You're doing the work of the mission of spreading the message about Jesus.
And so you're reaching far more people than most preachers will ever reach. And so to me, the whole goal is just to let everybody in the whole wide world know that Jesus loves them already and they're forgiven already if they simply accept him.
And like where everyone goes to church, I want them to all go to church. To come to my church? No, who cares? It's not even about church home or church brands or whatever.
I don't even care about any of that stuff. I just want everyone to know the Jesus that I know.
And then I want everyone to be in a community. And all the research shows, by the way, they were coming to a lot of our big buildings, but they were leaving and not connecting.
And they were going to their minivans and going. And I was like, what if we get them in their homes? And so now we believe that, by the way, we sent millions on our technology.
I'd like to give it away. I'm going to give it away to churches all over the world.
Like it doesn't matter. Like all that matters is that the message of Jesus gets out there and people meet him and they're in community.
And that's our passion. So I'm going to spend the rest of my time.
I think I got like 15 years left of doing this nonstop. Hell then, like I'm going to do church home, church in your home, church anywhere, church on the road, church in, you know, or church in a building.
Like I'm just for, I'm for, I'm for all of it. So I think the world of you two, and I think you're amazing.
And Ari, we are going to find you the man of your dreams. That's the bottom line.
You're going to help me? help me yeah I promise I'm going home and telling chels can I be honest I know you're going to I feel it so wow well because we need a good good good good man I'll bring options by the way say no to all of them by the way that's that's the only agreement is like you could just be like never in a million years I'm like yeah she's incredibly honest with incredibly high standards so she has No problem saying that. Well, never in a million years.
I'm like, yeah, we hated it. She's incredibly honest with incredibly high standards.

So she has no problem saying no.

Well, that's good to know.

That's the only reason she's single, by the way.

Gosh, Judah, you are insane.

Thank you for blessing us today.

Thank you.

We're so grateful for you.

You guys follow Judah, follow Chelsea.

Keep on dancing.

Keep on dancing.

We'll put all of their information.

Watch Church Home. Watch everything that he does because you will encounter the love of Jesus in doing so.
May the Lord bless you and keep you. May he make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you.
May he turn his face towards you and give you peace. Shalom, shalom.
We love you. We have religious OCD.
I don't know. We can't stop saying shalom, shalom.
We said it once and now we can't stop. It's completeness, peace.
Peace, right? Powerful. Shalom is power.
We love you so much, guys. Thanks for being here.
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