Trump says he'll meet Putin in Hungary for Ukraine talks

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This is the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service.

I'm on Kudasai, and in the early hours of Friday, the 17th of October, these are our main stories.

President Trump has said he'll meet President Putin for a further round of talks on the war in Ukraine.

Another of Mr.

Trump's enemies has been indicted.

John Bolton has been charged with the transmission and retention retention of defence information.

And there have been deadly scenes at a stadium in Kenya as mourners try to see the coffin of former Prime Minister Raila Odinga.

Also in this podcast, the queen of decluttering, Mary Kondo, talking about her native Japan and the experience of pregnancy, childbirth and losing a pregnancy can be life-changing, but it leaves almost no trace in archaeology.

How ancient skeletons can reveal if women were pregnant when they died.

Two months on from their Alaska summit, are Presidents Trump and Putin about to have another get-together.

On Thursday, the two men had a call and Donald Trump said he will probably meet Vladimir Putin in Hungary in the next two weeks.

I thought it was a very good phone call.

I thought it was very productive.

But I'll be meeting with President Putin.

And

we'll make a determination.

Tomorrow I'm meeting with President Zelensky, and I'll be telling him about the call.

This is a terrible relationship the two of them have, and it's one of those things.

I've seen things that nobody would believe, but this is one of them.

The Kremlin initiated the call to Mr.

Trump, which are described as frank and trustful.

Many commentators believe what's prompted this proactive approach is Mr.

Trump's talk of supplying U.S.

Tomahawk cruise missiles to Kyiv.

They have a much bigger range than the current missiles provided by the West, and the U.S.

President was asked if Mr.

Putin tried to dissuade him from sending tomahawks.

What do you think he's going to say?

Please sell tomahawks?

Is he going to say, please sell those tomahawks?

I really appreciate it.

I did actually say, would you mind if I gave a couple of thousand tomahawks to your opposition?

I did say that to him.

I said it just that way.

He didn't like the idea.

He really didn't like the idea.

No, I said it that way.

You have to be a little bit lighthearted sometimes, but no, he doesn't want to.

Tomahawk is a vicious weapon.

It's a vicious, vicious, offensive,

incredibly destructive weapon.

Nobody wants tomahawks shot at him.

So, wouldn't anybody?

Mr.

Trump says his Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, and his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, will be meeting ahead of any Putin summit.

So, how important is this development?

Our Washington correspondent is Nomia Iqbal.

They will want, certainly, President Trump will want to have some sort of success.

I mean it's been over two months since he and President Putin met in Alaska.

Uh there was a huge fanfare around that.

The world's media descended uh to Alaska, but nothing came out of it.

And so there's a lot riding on the Budapest summit.

Uh but yes, as you mentioned, there's going to be these initial round of meetings between Markarubi and Russian counterparts.

It's due to happen sometime next week at a loc location.

I presume it'll be in DC, but it's not yet been officially announced.

Is there any doubt then it's the talk of tomahawks that's made Mr Putin quite keen to talk to Mr Trump?

Mr.

Possibly.

I mean, it's interesting because just listening to the President there, he's you know, like toying with Vladimir Putin, toying with the idea of allowing Ukraine to have these missiles, which, as Mr Trump was laying out there, are vicious, they strike deep into Russia.

The Kremlin did say Mr Putin warned Mr Trump that that move would harm US Russia ties, but we know that the Ukrainian President, Vladimir Zelensky will be here in DC, will be at the White House on Friday, and it's something that he will definitely be requesting.

So I wonder if it's some sort of leverage that perhaps the President, President Trump, that is, will maybe try and use because it's been months since he re-established relations with Moscow.

He's demanding an immediate ceasefire and it's going unanswered by the Kremlin.

Do you sense in the last few weeks we've seen a change in tone from Mr.

Trump towards Ukraine?

You mentioned that meeting taking place later on Friday.

What do you think the tone of that conversation will be?

What will Mr.

Trump be saying?

Yeah, he and Mr.

Zelensky seem to have warmed to each other after that huge, astonishing blow-up we saw earlier in the year in the Oval Office.

And Mr.

Trump has come round, he's more supportive of Ukraine.

He's been more critical of Vladimir Putin.

I mean, President Trump's often criticised for being too pally-pally with Mr.

Putin and not being tough enough.

Although, in his first term, it's worth mentioning Mr.

Trump did impose sanctions on Russia.

He's not done that this time round.

So there are those who criticise Mr.

Trump saying that he should put his money where his mouth is and really put the pressure on Mr.

Putin.

But there's no doubt that ultimately what the President wants, fresh off his victory lap in the Middle East, he wants to have the same sort of success, same sort of achievement with Ukraine and Russia.

Of course, though, we know ceasefires are very delicate.

We're already seeing that everything's not going to plan in the Middle East as Mr.

Trump had wanted it to.

I think that we can expect there to be a friendly meeting on Friday and the missiles will come up.

And Mr.

Trump will make a point of saying that Mr.

Putin does not want him to give it to Ukraine, but Ukraine wants it.

So, as I say, it would be interesting to see how much of that he uses as a leverage in those meetings going forward.

Nomi Iqbal reporting.

For the third time in recent weeks, a prominent critic of Donald Trump has been indicted on criminal charges.

John Bolton served as Mr.

Trump's national security advisor in the president's first term in office before being fired in 2019.

He's been charged with illegally storing and transmitting classified information.

In a statement, Mr.

Bolton said he had devoted his life to American foreign policy and national security and would never compromise those goals.

He also accused Donald Trump of abuse of power.

Our North America editor, Sarah Smith, has the details.

John Bolton was a very close advisor to Donald Trump in his first administration as national security advisor and as his ambassador to the UN.

But they fell out, particularly when John Bolton published a really critical book about some of the things that he'd seen going on behind the scenes in the first Trump administration.

So he has been high on Donald Trump's list of perceived enemies and adversaries and another person whom he's using the justice system to go after.

Back in August, the FBI raided John Bolton's home and office looking to see if they could find any classified information that he had kept in an unauthorized way and that would allow them to charge him with that.

It's also been reported that they discovered an enemy spy service had information that they had gleaned from emails John Bolton had sent to people close to him on a server that wasn't secure.

So we think it's on these charges that he has been indicted with these criminal offences.

The charges haven't been made public yet.

And he is just one on a long list of people actually who Donald Trump is using the justice system to go after.

And we would expect to see him standing trial here in the United States next year.

Sarah Smith reporting.

In an earlier podcast, we brought you news about the death of a legend of mountaineering, Kancha Sherpa, the last surviving member of the team that first conquered Mount Everest, who's died at the age of 92.

On the 29th of May 1953, Kancha was among the 35 members of the team that guided the New Zealander Edmund Hillary and his Sherpa guide Tenzing Norge to the top of the world's highest mountain.

We're going to revisit the story and bring you an interview with his grandson, Tenzing Jogyal Sherpa, who shared his memories with us.

I have so many beautiful memories with my grandpa, but one that really stands out is from when I was around seven or eight years old, I think.

This was in my village, in my hometown of Namchabazar.

So I used to love going and sneaking around and going back to my grandparents' house.

My grandmother would make me a warm noodle soup.

with a fire going on and then my grandpa would just sit with me.

I used to sit beside him or on his lap and then he used these incredible stories about his journeys across the mighty mountains or sometimes across this vast ice field.

Those stories were like fairy tales for me.

And looking back now, I realize how much these stories have actually shaped me.

Because in a way, I think they have planted the seed for what I am today, meaning I'm a glaciologist today.

I'm actually studying ice and mountains.

What did he say about that expedition in in 1953?

Can you remember?

So he used to talk about how he actually got the job, right?

He had to walk for a month just to go to Darzeeling.

He worked in things in Norgesharpa's house.

And that's how he got the job.

He came back to our hometown and then went up to the expedition.

But one of the stark memories and stark stories that I still

remember is that when they had to cross this big crevasses, and nowadays you've got these aluminum ladders but before as well they used to have those aluminum ladders but they didn't bring enough so now the only option was that how do we cross so my grandpa and some of the other teammates went down two or three days

went to our village cut these 12 to 13 feet trees shaved off all of the branches carried those tree trunks on the back and walked uphill back again two to three days and then just put it upon a crevasse just to cross through it.

So that story in itself itself was, I think, just gives you the gravity and the scale of achievement, especially during those times.

Nowadays, climbing Everest is a very different thing.

It's still dangerous, but it's a mass tourism pastime.

What do you make of the change?

I think with increasing tourism, there has been both advantages and disadvantages, right?

The advantages in a way is that the Sheba people who lived so far up remote in the region now have the opportunity to study, now have the infrastructure now have good incomes but at the same time they also bring in a lot of mixed disadvantage in a way that now it's becoming more diluted the whole identity of us being a shepherd our culture our roots the way of our life and our language in itself is becoming at risk and that is one of the major fears that my grandfather used to have and some of the fatal accidents that we've seen recently are they symptoms of climate change on everest So in case of my grandpa, he had a very deep sense of respect for the mountains.

He used to say that these avalanches that you see, these extreme climatic events that you see where people are losing a lot of life is in a way the mountain responding back.

And today how we understand climate change is basically that.

We're actually exploiting the nature that and in a way nature is responding back.

Mountaineering as a profession they're actually literally at the forefront of one of the most visible symptoms of climate change, that is the changing glaciers, changing snow patterns, and changing weather patterns.

Paul Henley, speaking to Tenzing Chogyal Sherpa.

Scientists studying ancient female skeletons here in the UK have worked out a way to find out if the women were pregnant when they died.

It's hoped this technique could help us understand the reproductive histories of people who died long ago.

Richard Hamilton has the details.

For the first time, researchers have detected levels of the hormones estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone in the skeletal remains of women.

The findings show that ancient bones preserve clear traces of these hormones that could help identify which individuals in archaeological sites were pregnant or had just given birth at the time of their death.

It's like conducting a pregnancy test across the centuries.

The lead researcher, Amy Barlow, from the University of Sheffield, believes this could revolutionize the way we study the reproductive histories of past populations and is giving a voice to women whose suffering may not have been acknowledged.

For women throughout history, the experience of pregnancy, childbirth, and loosener pregnancy can be life-changing, but it leaves almost no trace in archaeology.

These emotional and physical events have remained largely invisible until now.

We know that progesterone, estrogen, and testosterone levels rise during pregnancy, so our main goal was to determine if we could use these hormones to detect pregnancy in skeletal remains.

Amy Barlow and her colleagues took samples from rib fragments and a neck bone from seven women and three men who'd been buried in four English cemeteries.

The dates of their deaths ranged from the first to the nineteenth centuries.

They then isolated the hormones from the samples.

She says that apart from helping us learn more about the past, this technique could be used in modern-day forensics to identify the bodies of women and whether they were pregnant before they died.

Richard Hamilton reporting.

Still to come, looking for God in the app store.

It just made life easier.

The Adam's going off, so I know it's time to pray.

The Quran's easy to access.

Yeah, I've used it ever since I reverted.

We explore the growing number of religion-based smartphone apps.

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This is the story of the one.

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As a custodial supervisor at a high school, he knows that during cold and flu season, germs spread fast.

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Also, that he can help students, staff, and teachers stay healthy and focused.

Call 1-800GRanger, clickgranger.com or just stop by.

Grainger for the ones who get it done.

As part of the Gaza ceasefire agreement, Hamas requested the release of Marwan Baghouti, who's often touted as a possible leader of any future Palestinian state.

Israel has refused to let him out.

Prison guards have now been accused of beating him unconscious last month.

The 66-year-old serving life for planning deadly attacks against Israelis was allegedly assaulted by eight Israeli guards during a transfer between two jails.

Israel has denied the claims.

Sarah Montague spoke to Marwan Baghuti's son, Arab.

What we're hearing is horrific.

My father has been assaulted four major times.

The last one was on September 14th.

He was unfortunately transferred from Ganaut Ramon prison to Mejiddo.

They stopped him at Al-Jalama prison and eight security guards.

And we have testimonies from multiple released detainees said that they put him on the ground and they started kicking him, especially in the head area, in the chest area, as well as his legs.

They said that he lost consciousness for hours and he didn't get any medical treatment until he reached Mejiddo prison where he was sent to the clinic.

They said that it was hard for him to walk, to speak for days until he started recovering.

The last time they saw him was six days ago before they got released and they said that like it's hard for him to walk comfortably but they said that mentally he was the strongest that they've seen him.

Okay, now you are often asked about your father's intentions should he ever get out.

If he were released, what are these prisoners saying about his intentions or his hopes for some political future?

They said that they've never seen anyone like him.

They said that he's still holding the same political vision that he's always had.

He's been a big supporter of the two-state solution as the only solution that makes sense and accepted by every Palestinian, but also by the international community, and he wants to support that.

And it's a clear declaration by the Israeli government that they're not looking for a strong partner for peace.

Okay, but it is also the case that your father was convicted for planning attacks that led to five civilians being killed.

It was a kangaroo trial.

My father did not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli court, and also they didn't have any evidence.

He never confessed to any of these things.

My hope is that my father leads the Palestinian people towards unity.

A unified Palestinian people contributes greatly to stability and peace to the region.

I don't think that if we had unity, we would be here as Palestinians.

My father has written down a full political vision for the future of Palestinian politics from prison.

He's no different than Mandela.

He can still lead the people from inside prison, and that's exactly why they are targeting him and why he represents a threat to the current Israeli government.

Arab Margouti, speaking to Sarah Montague.

The Israeli Prison Service told the BBC that it operates in accordance with the law and inmates' rights, including access to medical care and adequate living conditions, are upheld by professionally trained staff.

It went on to say that it is not aware of the claims described and to the best of their knowledge, no such incidents occurred under its responsibility.

On Friday, a state funeral will take place in the Kenyan capital, Nairobi, for the former Prime Minister Raila Odinga before his body will be moved to Western Kenya, where he was born and enjoyed great support.

A burial service will take place on Sunday.

The funeral comes after Nairobi witnessed a day of violence and chaos on Thursday, as thousands of people gathered to greet the body of a politician who was a towering figure in Kenyan politics.

A huge crowd had gathered at the airport in Nairobi, causing some flights to be suspended.

The body was then taken to the Kastrani Stadium on the outskirts of the Kenyan capital.

And it was there that the authorities lost control, firing gunshots and tear gas to disperse the crowds.

The eight-year-old who spent many years in opposition fighting for democracy died in hospital in India earlier this week.

Local media reports say at least three people died in the chaos surrounding the attempts to see the body.

These Adinga supporters were in the stadium.

We came to celebrate BABA.

We were so peaceful until the policemen started provoking people.

People were impatient.

People had come.

We are starting at eight.

So they were so impatient for waiting.

We have not yet been able to view the body because

the police started throwing targets everywhere.

People started running away.

We are very sad.

Our hero is gone.

He has not even been buried.

But some people have started killing us.

Our correspondent, Akisa Vandera, spoke to us from Nairobi.

This particular stadium was filled to capacity since an announcement was made that the public viewing of the body of the former Prime Minister will happen at the Kasarani Stadium and not at the parliament buildings, which already had been overwhelmed by surging crowds that were breaching security.

And it would appear that security forces were overwhelmed by the crowds that were present just minutes after the motorcade that had the body arrived at the Kasarani Stadium.

police fired tear gas to try and disperse crowds.

We've gotten reports that one of the reasons why they did this is because there might have been a likely breach at the VIP section of the stadium, which is not confirmed yet.

But once the tear gas was fired, we saw thousands of people running out of the stadium.

There are several injuries that were reported.

Our reporters who are on the ground said that they could see quite a number of people who were injured.

And what will this mean for the state funeral on Friday?

Well, that's the conversation a lot of people are having here because the state funeral is expected to be even bigger.

Foreign dignitaries from various countries are expected to be present for this state funeral.

And I should also mention that the venue of the state funeral is equally a stadium, but not as big as a Kasarani stadium.

So they're concerned that perhaps we are still going to see huge crowds make their way to the the Nyayo Stadium to attend this historic event.

But the big question now is whether the security forces in the country will be better prepared, because what we have witnessed throughout the day today is security lapse after security lapse from the airport to parliament buildings and now to this stadium.

Oliver Conway, who is speaking to Akisa Vandera in Nairobi.

Smartphone technology and increasingly artificial intelligence is changing many areas of our lives, including religion.

Faith-based apps are currently booming, and the makers say they offer spiritual fulfillment.

Some even let users chat with digital versions of religious figures, including God.

Many charge a fee, a potentially tricky area for a lot of faiths, as Rob Young reports.

The sound of the Muslim call to prayer, heard from mosques around the world five times a day.

But this sound isn't from a mosque, it's from a smartphone app called Muslim Pro.

To remind users, it's time to pray.

Here's one of the apps users in the United Kingdom, a woman who converted to Islam later in life.

My name is Kimberly Wiltshire.

I'm 43.

So tell me about your spirituality then and the role that apps play in that.

So with regards to Islam, it's not what I was born into.

It's completely alien to me.

And having the apps, it just made life easier because the Adan's going off, so I know it's time to pray.

The Quran's easy to access.

I've always got it on me because it's always within the app.

Yeah, I've used it ever since I reverted.

Kimberly's story is far from unique.

She is one of the more than 170 million people worldwide, according to the company, to have downloaded Muslim Pro.

Hey, Father, you joining Lent again this year?

Of course.

Stay prayed up.

All right, Father.

This is an advert for Hallow, an app from the United States for Catholics.

It reached the number one spot in Apple's App Store in the US at one point last year, beating the likes of Instagram, TikTok, and Netflix.

The company behind Hallow says it has been downloaded more than 25 million times.

Here's the chief executive, Alex Jones.

We started Hallow originally just for me.

I had fallen away from my faith and came back to it, and really through this kind of discovering of contemplative and meditative prayer.

And so we started certainly focused very much in the U.S.

where I live, but now we're spread out across 150 countries.

We probably have half of our folks now outside of the U.S.

Like other religion apps, Hallow offers a free version.

There are also premium features for subscribers who pay $70 a year.

So, is the company making any money?

We're a startup, so we're burning money.

You know, we have revenue, obviously, from a bunch of folks that we've been blessed to have subscribed to the app.

But, you know, we're still investing a lot in trying to create content, trying to add new languages, and trying to reach out to folks.

Especially for us, the important thing is trying to reach out to folks who have most fallen away, the people who are in the toughest and most difficult places.

Talk to me about how you regard the relationship between money and Christianity.

You know, money and technology are tools.

If you worship them, if you put them first, that is, you know, it's the road to hell.

That's the road to destruction.

It's exactly what Christ says you can't do.

You know, the church's view on business is that business and entrepreneurship can be very powerful forces for good as long as they they are, you know, the second.

So, you're saying then that if you never make a profit, that's not a problem for you?

It's not a problem for me.

I think we will.

I think that, you know, most likely Hallow is going to die.

I mean, it's a startup.

Some apps use artificial intelligence to simulate conversations with religious figures or even with God.

One app, text with Jesus, lets users chat with an AI that replies in the voice of Jesus.

A few messages are free, but unlimited divine dialogue costs $50 a year.

Stefan Peter is the president and chief executive of the app maker Catloaf Software.

It can respond in a way that feels authentic.

At the same time, do you have to balance that with the fact that it's an AI in the end.

Kind of up to the person to stay aware of that.

Not everyone is comfortable with this digital devotion.

Candida Moss, a theology professor at the University of Birmingham in the UK, says apps can't replace real spiritual connection.

It is a little awkward to be sort of gatekeeping access to sort of a premium relationship with God in this way.

And just because something is disembodied and and seemingly all-knowing doesn't mean that it's actually a transcendent deity.

These apps may be controversial with some, but they seem increasingly popular with people looking for God in their app store.

Rob Young reporting.

Marie Kondo is known as the queen of tidy.

She brought the Japanese style of keeping a home spick-in-span to the rest of the world, and it's made her a global media star.

And now she's got a new book, Exploring Her Home Country.

It's a place increasingly on the itineraries of foreign tourists, and Japan had a record of nearly 40 million overseas visitors last year.

Japanese people have welcomed them, but the increasing number of visitors has highlighted the country's uniqueness and its problems.

Marie Kondo spoke about some of these issues to my colleague Sean Lei.

I think fundamentally, Japanese people are hospitable, welcoming people.

They have this sense of omote nashi.

They want to make visitors to Japan happy.

They want people to go home happy.

They want people to enjoy their time in Japan.

But on the other hand, Japan is an island country.

Traditionally, it has an ethnically uniform population.

And I think there's a sense that we're still not quite used to meeting people from different cultures.

Is that going to have to change?

Because we are at a stage in Japan's history where for every child that's born, two people die, for sixteen years in succession the population has been falling.

Japan is going to have to change, isn't it?

You're right, and and Japanese people are trying to come to grips now with this challenge and figure out what what they need to do.

You're doing it yourself, of course.

You had three children, which for a lot of Japanese is very unusual.

Many aren't even forming permanent relationships, never mind having children.

As you say, yes, I have children myself.

I have experience of being around children.

I have friends with children.

Some of them have three children, six children, but at the same time, there are a lot of people who are maybe not considering settling down, not considering marriage, or if they are, maybe they're happy with just one or two children.

But the way I see it is there are just more choices available to us now, and you don't have to follow the same path of settling down and having children.

There are a lot more options that are accepted now in society.

You talk about choices in life.

You're an exemplar of that because you're a successful businesswoman in your own right.

Japan, for the first time in its history, has a woman who is about to become Prime Minister.

There's even debate about whether one day a woman could sit on the throne of Japan.

Has the experience for Japanese women changed in your lifetime, and if so, in what way?

When I was born, my mother was a housewife, and that was very common in my parents' generation.

In my generation, though, it's changed.

A lot more women work,

are out in society.

I went to an all-girls school, and it was natural for us to want to go out to work, to want to contribute to society.

And I do feel that Japan has changed in that way.

Marie, you've travelled all around the world, not least because of your work.

You've trained people who work around the world now.

Having travelled so widely, is there one thing that you think the rest of the world could adopt from Japan that would maybe spark joy for them?

And similarly, is there something the rest of the world does or is done somewhere else in the world that you think Japan could benefit from?

If I could share one thing from Japan, I think it would be, and I do this when I'm tidying, expressing kindness to objects.

So when I fold my clothes, when I fold my socks, I try to do it with love.

And you might think, well, they're just things, but these are things that support us in our lives.

And so when you realise that, it becomes easier to express your affection and your gratitude for the objects around you.

If I were to say one thing that I would take from other countries, it would be

the openness,

the willingness to say what you're thinking.

And that's something that I've learnt as well.

Open communication.

Murray Kondo is speaking to Sean Lay.

And that's all from us for now, but there will be a new edition of the Global News Podcast a little later.

If you want to comment on this episode or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email.

The address is globalpodcast at bbc.co.uk.

And you can also find us on X at BBC World Service.

And you can use the hashtag Global Newspod.

The edition was mixed by Martin Williams, and the editor is Karen Martin.

I'm Anka Desai.

Until next time, goodbye.

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