Zelensky's crucial meeting with Trump in Washington

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This is the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service.

I'm Will Chalk and at 18 Hours GMT on the 17th of October, these are our main stories.

Donald Trump and Vladimir Zelensky are meeting face to face again.

It's been fiery in the past, so what does today have in store?

A fraud case in China China leads to grave consequences for some top military officials.

As two very different candidates face off to be New York's next mayor, it looks like Gen Z's votes will be crucial.

Also in this podcast, some of the biggest companies in music say they're working together on their own AI tools.

What do songwriters think?

What happens when we can sort of photocopy an artist a million times and make a million versions of their music?

You know,

it's a slippery slope.

And an EU ruling about pets on planes has got some owners angry.

For the third time this year, President Zelensky of Ukraine is in Washington for talks with President Trump.

The first meeting couldn't have gone worse, with Mr.

Zelensky being publicly humiliated in the Oval Office.

The second was far more convivial.

So what is in store this time around?

Mr.

Zelensky wants Donald Trump to agree to send American long-range Tomahawk missiles to Ukraine.

Marco Rubio is going to be meeting with his counterpart, as you know, Labrov, and they'll be meeting pretty soon.

They're going to set up a time and a place very shortly.

Maybe it's already set up.

But I'll be meeting with President Putin, and

we'll make a determination.

Tomorrow I'm meeting with President Zelensky, and I'll be telling him about the call.

I mean, we have a problem.

They don't get along too well, those two.

And it's sometimes tough to have meetings, so we may do something where we're separate, but separate but equal.

But how likely is that, now that Mr.

Trump has just had a two-hour chat with Vladimir Putin with a possible summit in a couple of weeks' time?

Our correspondent John Sudworth is in Kiev.

President Zelensky set off for this trip to Washington, I think, in optimistic mood.

Ukraine had felt in recent weeks and months that President Trump was was losing patience with Russia.

There appeared to be talk from the US administration about a willingness to see Ukraine impose costs on Russia, on its economy, and the possibility of providing these tomahawks to allow it to hit targets deep inside Russia, in particular its oil supply network, all designed to put pressure on Vladimir Putin.

That phone call that happened while Mr.

Zelensky was in the air and then this announcement of the summit, you have to assume, has changed that.

That optimism must be gone.

The question about tomahawks, you know, Mr.

Zelensky was trying to frame it as if this is a sign of Russian panic, really in an attempt to urge President Trump to remain strong, to provide this weapons system.

But I think it was never guaranteed.

Mr.

Trump had hinted, but it often seemed to suggest that it was more of a leverage over President Putin.

He would supply these weapons if.

And I think, you know, given that we're now moving into this phase again of summitry diplomacy, the talk of Russia as a partner for peace with Washington, I think the possibility of those tomahawks being signed off today must be called further into question, I think.

So, what do we expect the mood to be like in this meeting between President Trump and President Zelensky?

We gave that impossible question to our State Department correspondent, Tom Bateman.

What we've seen in recent times when Mr.

Zelensky and Mr.

Trump have met is an extremely thankful and deferential Ukrainian president.

I think he's clearly decided that what happened in February in the White House, where he was basically humiliated by President Trump and J.D.

Vance, can't be repeated.

They can't afford to lose the US as a patron and an ally insofar as it remains as such in this war.

So I think you will see him be extremely thankful.

Behind closed doors, he is going to be asking for

these Tomahawk missiles, US-made, to be able to buy them.

But

it remains far from clear that Mr.

Zelensky will get what he's after.

Now any summit between President Trump and Mr.

Putin might take place, we're hearing, in Budapest, in Hungary.

A lot of people said that this last time round when they met in Anchorage, Alaska, Donald Trump got nothing from this and was rather embarrassed.

He didn't admit as such, but many people saw it as an embarrassment for him.

And yet, he's prepared potentially to meet again.

Yeah, I think that's a very good point.

You know, it goes further back in the sense that the Americans re-established ties with the Russians in February.

And at that point, the US demand was for a 30-day immediate ceasefire in this war.

Now, the Ukrainians have always said that they're prepared to accept that.

We've seen Mr.

Putin basically at each stage of this find ways to lengthen the process.

And I think where the White House got was they thought that a summit between Presidents Trump and Putin would finally settle this, that basically Mr.

Trump could convince his Russian counterpart of the need to come to the table and end the war.

But that obviously hasn't been successful.

And we're now into this idea, as you say, of a second summit.

I think what the suggestion is from Mr.

Trump is now it's kind of down to the two men.

They need to get in the room together, Mr.

Zelensky and Mr.

Putin, and that will bring the breakthrough.

And he sees this very much as a disagreement between the two leaders that they don't get on, as he put it after his call yesterday.

And so I think we'll hear more about him suggesting that that should be what should happen after the Budapest summit.

But of course, what you have in the meantime is Russia being able to

basically strengthen its strategic position on the battlefield, play for more time.

And it's always been the case that Russia, in the end, has more to gain out of playing for time than the Ukrainians do.

It's our State Department correspondent Tom Bateman speaking to my colleague Nick Miles.

From the US to China, where the ruling Communist Party has expelled nine senior military officials, including a highly ranked general, amid allegations of fraud.

It seems the fraud involved extremely large amounts of money and created what officials there have called grave consequences.

Our China correspondent, Steve McDonnell, told us more from Beijing.

The Chinese military says they're serious.

I mean, according to the Defence Ministry spokesperson, Jung Xiaogong,

all of these people have seriously violated party discipline and are suspected of crimes involving an extremely large amount of money.

Now this is all part of

an anti-corruption crackdown that's been sweeping through the military in recent years, but it's now reaching right up to the top.

so amongst those purged today is the number two general in the people's liberation army what what's more apart from being the number two general hei dong is also a member of the 24 person politburo now people will know that that's that's a party body and the only thing above the politburo is the politburo standing committee with seven people on it so he's a very senior party member number two person in the military number two on the Central Military Commission.

That's the body which runs the military, which is chaired by Xi Jinping.

He was thought to be someone who was very close to Xi Jinping, and yet, you know, it doesn't seem to matter how high up you are, you can be culled under this anti-corruption drive, which really has been a feature of Xi's leadership since he took over.

What I should add, though, is that these allegations are always very murky.

We never get public information on what they amount to.

They're sort of Communist Party crimes, if you like, at the moment, because

the anti-corruption crackdown is within the party.

So it would only be if he went to the courts,

which eventually will happen if they want to throw him in prison.

And even then, it'd probably be all behind closed doors.

So we may never actually even know what it is that these generals are accused of doing.

And Steve, you said this is part of a long-running campaign against corruption, according to the Communist Party.

Any reason, particularly now, why these senior people have gone?

Well, the crucial thing is that it's a couple of days before this

important meeting that will be held in Beijing.

In the Chinese structure, there are these plenums that happen every sort of

every year and at various times.

So this is the fourth plenum.

It's going to do big things, approve the next five-year plan.

All of this behind closed doors, I should add.

We won't see any of this.

But one of the things the plenum also does is approve the removal of people who are guilty of the so-called corruption crimes.

So it's like Xi Jinping clearing the decks before this important big meeting, which will be on all next week.

It's our China correspondent Steve McDonnell.

New Yorkers will vote for a new mayor on the 4th of November, when a relative newcomer and a political family heavyweight will go head to head.

In the first mayoral debate before the election, Zutra Mandani, a Muslim, emerged as the clear front-runner after having campaigned on progressive issues like freezing rents, free buses, and universal childcare.

His opponent, Andrew Cuomo, a centrist, has struggled to attract younger voters despite his vast experience and his pitch for public safety and economic opportunity.

Our New York correspondent Neda Torfik was watching the debate.

Keeping up the momentum of his campaign, Zahran Mamdani made his way from Trump Tower to the debate with a marching band and dozens of supporters following behind him.

We are less than three weeks from election day.

Mamdani, the Democratic nominee, is ahead in polls by double digits, but his main challenger, Andrew Cuomo, who is running as an independent after losing the Democratic primary, tried tonight to narrow that gap.

First, thank you very much for sponsoring the debate and having all of us.

Right out of the gate, moderators asked about COVID-related and sexual harassment scandals that led Andrew Cuomo to resign as governor in 2021.

Why should voters now trust that you have the character to be mayor?

He again asserted his innocence and then pivoted to attacking his 33-year-old opponent as inexperienced.

I've run the Department of Housing and Urban Development, built housing all across the nation.

I was governor for 11 years.

This is no job for on-the-job training.

Zahran Mamdani hit back, saying he spent five years serving in the New York State Assembly, watching a broken political system.

I have the experience of being a New Yorker, someone who has actually paid rent in the city before I ran for mayor, someone who has had to wait for a bus that never came, someone who actually buys his groceries in this same city.

Even before key local issues were addressed, the moderators asked how the candidates would handle President Donald Trump if they were mayor of America's largest city.

The tense exchanges continued as Zahran Mamdani painted Andrew Cuomo as far too cozy with the Republican president.

What distinguishes me from Andrew Cuomo is the fact that he has gotten on the phone with that same president, not asking him how to work together to help New Yorkers, but instead asking him how to win this race.

That's something I can do myself.

I don't need the president's assistance for.

And what I tell the president is if he ever wants to come for New Yorkers in the way that he has been, he's going to have to get through me as the next mayor of this city.

I never had a conversation with the president that the Assembly was talking about.

I would say to the president in the first conversation, look, I'd like to work with you.

I think we can do good things together, but number one, I will fight you every step of the way if you try to hurt New York.

Mamdani, a democratic socialist, differs from Cuomo, a centrist, in another key way.

While Cuomo is a staunch defender of Israel, Mamdani has been a lifelong advocate for Palestinian rights and describes the war in Gaza as a genocide.

The assemblyman will not denounce Hamas.

The Assemblyman just said in his response, well, it depends on occupation.

That is code, meaning that Israel does not have a right to exist as a Jewish state.

I want to be very clear.

The occupation is a reference to international law and the violation of it, which Mr.

Cuomo has no regard for since he signed up to be Benjamin Netanyahu's legal defense team during the course of this genocide.

Ultimately, this debate is unlikely to change the state of the race.

Both men repeated their well-rehearsed attacks, trying to score points.

We're not socialists.

It didn't work in Venezuela, didn't work in Cuba, didn't work here.

I am speaking about child care because it's pricing out New Yorkers from the city.

That's why I'm speaking about freezing the rent, because housing isn't a human right in the way that we practice our politics in the city.

But for any voter, still undecided, they have two very different visions for New York to choose from.

It's our New York correspondent, Neda Torfik.

Still to come, thousands of Kenyans fill a Nairobi stadium for the state funeral of the former Prime Minister Ryla Odinga.

He was irrevocably stubborn in his vision for a just, prosperous, and united Kenya.

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Hamas has again said it wants to return the remaining bodies of hostages in Gaza and is believed to have passed on details of where they can be found.

Israel is threatening to return to war if the remains of the 19 people aren't returned.

Our correspondent in Jerusalem, Yolan Nell, gave us more details.

So this is still very much the focus of Israeli media.

The failure of Hamas to return all of the 19 remaining bodies belonging to Israel's hostages.

And there are quotes of Israeli defense officials who say that they do believe that Hamas does have access to more of these bodies.

The latest statement from Hamas that came out said that it was committed to the ceasefire and its implementation and was keen to return these hostages bodies but it said that some corpses were underground in tunnels that had been destroyed by Israel, others were under rubble in buildings that Israel had bombed and then demolished and it was saying there's really a shortage of this heavy lifting equipment.

Now we know that Hamas is under a lot of pressure from the mediators to act on this.

They don't want to see this endangering the ceasefire deal.

There was what Al Jazeera called some exclusive footage that it showed overnight where you could see what appeared to be Hamas gunmen guarding a couple of bulldozers in Khan Yunis in the south of the Gaza Strip, apparently looking for hostages' bodies there.

From what we know, there are exact locations and aerial photographs that have been been handed over to the mediators by Hamas.

Now, this was a subject for the Israeli Prime Minister when he was meeting his security cabinet last night, and then we know that afterwards he updated President Trump by phone.

From Jerusalem, that was Yoland Nell.

UN aid agencies are appealing to Israel to allow aid directly into northern Gaza, where famine was declared in August, and where key border crossings are still closed despite the ceasefire.

The World Food Programme says more food is getting into the south, but it's unable to begin widespread food distribution in the north.

One of the worst affected areas is Gaza City, the most densely populated of the strip before the war.

Garda Uda is a journalist from Gaza City.

She left with her two daughters and returned three days ago.

She sent this voice note telling us what the past few days back have been like.

I returned to Gaza two days ago, and

two days now I'm in Gaza.

It took me one hour to return to Gaza from Salafin Road as it was unallowed for the Palestinians to take this road before.

And after the withdrawal of the Israeli forces to the Yellow line, I managed to return to Gaza through this road.

It was night, dark, I couldn't see anything.

I couldn't recognize anything at night.

In early morning, I

started to walk between Gaza streets and roads, and it was like completely destroyed.

Only small neighborhoods still standing, while other buildings completely destroyed in all of Gaza city.

My house or my apartment is still standing in most of Gaza, as there was no Israeli military operation in this area.

I'm lucky to find a small apartment for myself and for my daughters.

I saw the destruction of Gaza City.

I don't think life

would be good here in the future.

It needs reconstruction and rebuilding of the neighborhoods and the roads, which will need also heavy equipment to remove all of the rubbles.

90% of Gaza

Strip is completely destroyed.

UN agencies say unexploded ordnance makes it dangerous to attempt moving aid from southern to northern Gaza, and that anyway, many roads are either blocked or destroyed.

We asked Garda what she had found when looking for food and supplies when she returned home.

Regarding food, it's still like

there is limited access to food, not like for even the starvation

still here.

A few number of people, they just returned to Gaza, and Gaza needs more trucks, human training aid trucks to come to Gaza.

The same amount of food with high prices still.

I think Gaza needs more than 500 human training aid trucks of food to enter Gaza, at least to fulfill the needs of people here.

My daughter, they will follow next week as they live with their father.

Their house is completely destroyed, and they will come back next week to live with me.

I don't feel like there will be a good life in

the near future in Gaza.

It will take many years

to rebuild Gaza City again as it was before October 7th.

But I hope the ceasefire will last and will continue, and the fighting will not return back again.

Garda Uda, a journalist from Gaza City.

For many people, taking something human, soulful, and often beautiful, like music, and putting it in the hands of artificial intelligence is an uncomfortable thought.

So an announcement from Spotify that it's working with several massive record labels to develop its own AI music tools hasn't been universally well received.

But does Spotify have a point?

Well, we now live in a world where, by typing in a dozen-word text prompt, you can generate a full song like this in whatever style you

That is one we made earlier.

So, Spotify says it's embracing AI because if it doesn't, someone else will.

And the company claims everything it does will put artists first.

But despite its announcement running to a thousand words, Spotify is yet to actually say what any of its new tools will do.

So, what does does this mean for music?

Aaron Horne is a Grammy-nominated songwriter and producer who's worked with the likes of DojaCat.

I know he uses AI as a tool when he's composing, so I called him up to get his perspective.

Hi, I'm Aaron Horne.

I'm a producer and songwriter.

I first met you in 2023 when I was doing another BBC piece, and then I tasked you with writing a song using only AI.

And I've got it here.

Remember that?

Crazy, yeah.

That was that was good fun.

I think AI has come on in such a way since that it's funny to see the progression.

That's in two years and the amount it's come on is, I mean, someone says that's mind-boggling, yeah.

I think then it was very obvious when you heard an AI track and now it's it's almost indistinguishable.

I mean that is the reason that Spotify give.

They say, well, it's moving so fast.

If we don't get across it, someone else will, and then it won't be regulated properly.

Do you buy that?

Oh, it's hard to know, isn't it?

It's such a tool of power.

It's scary.

It's scary to think that the distributor is going to have the tool to create sort of indistinguishable content.

It does make me nervous.

You know, they could have sort of artist-specific AI channels where they create all this AI content around an artist that maybe is just inspired, like you said, or programmed from their content and their artistry.

What happens when we can sort of photocopy an artist a million times and make a million versions of their music?

Does it really connect?

Does it have value?

You know,

it's a slippery slope.

Yeah, the other thing I find quite interesting is they talk about in this, about there being transparency and that that's part of their policy is they want people to know when music has been made using AI.

But

you're an organic songwriter, but you do use AI when you're writing your songs, right?

You use it to generate sounds, which you will then manipulate.

I do, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I can get it to spit out like a sax part or a flute part or very complex musical parts that would take me quite a long time to program or cost me quite a lot of money to get other people to play.

And I can do them infinitely and come up with them and it's really valuable.

But ultimately, it doesn't change the sort of core integrity of the track.

A lot of what AI does for me when I'm working is add in sort of bells and whistles.

So that line is constantly shifting.

And I guess that's why Spotify are interested in putting a stamp on it.

But it's not clear, like you said, at what point does that stamp happen.

If you've generated a guitar part in a song, does that then make the song contraband?

You know, will it be zero AI?

Or, you know, where's that line?

I mean, definitely for me, it's around that integrity of I've written a song, I've done a demo, I've done the core parts, and I'm looking for these additional kind of pieces.

Erin Horne.

It's not something many pet owners will enjoy imagining, but if a company was responsible for your pet going missing, how much would you expect to be compensated?

It's the question at the heart of a case in the EU's top court, which has now ruled that pets can be classified as luggage on flight.

Chantau Hartel has the story.

Pets are not passengers.

A clear ruling by the European Court of Justice, but one likely to cause distress for animal owners.

This landmark case goes back to 2019, when Iberia Airlines passenger, Grizel Ortith, was travelling from Argentina to Spain with her dog Mona.

Mona escaped from a carrier while baggage handlers were loading her into the aircraft hold and was never seen again.

The airline accepted liability for the loss, but disputed the owner's request for $5,500 in compensation.

It argued that damages paid should be restricted to the internationally agreed limit for lost baggage, as Ortith hadn't declared any special value for her dog.

The EU court concluded that although the common meaning of luggage refers to objects, companion animals did not fall outside this definition.

A lawyer for Ortiz said the ruling was a missed opportunity to champion the rights of animals and the people that care for them.

For airlines operating in Europe, this gives legal certainty and shields them from expensive claims and long legal disputes like this one.

For pet owners, it's a timely reminder to make sure they declare their most precious cargo.

Shantao Hartul

Dozens of people have been seriously injured at the state funeral of Kenya's revered opposition leader, Raila Odinga, as crowds surged to see his body.

Thousands of mourners had gathered at Nyayo Stadium in Nairobi to pay their respects to the 80-year-old, who died of a heart attack two days ago.

People waved white handkerchiefs, danced, and blew whistles in honor of the politician many affectionately called Baba, meaning father.

Considered by some as the figurehead of Kenya's pro-democracy movement, Raila Odinga served as Prime Minister, though he never succeeded in his five bids for the presidency.

In his eulogy, President William Ruto said Mr.

Adinga was determined to achieve a just and united Kenya.

One of the greatest lessons he taught us was this.

In the noble task of statecraft and nation nation-building, there is room for all of us, competitors and collaborators, rivals and allies, bound together by one higher purpose, the greater good of our republic.

President Ruto said Mr.

Odinga was sailing to a home beyond and sang one of the former Prime Minister's favourite songs, Harry Belafonte's Jamaica Farewell.

And that is all from us for now, but there will be a new edition of the Global News podcast later.

If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can.

Please do.

Send us an email.

The address is globalpodcast at bbc.co.uk.

You can also find us on X at BBC World Service.

Use the hashtag global newspod.

This edition was mixed by Nicola Brof.

The editor is Karen Martin, and I am Will Chalk.

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