Rashida Jones

Hi, welcome to another episode of Good Hang. I cannot wait to have you hear this episode with the great Rashida Jones, the Anne to my Leslie, my wife for life.
Rashida is just one of my best friends and she's just an incredible person and interview and she's so deep and smart and funny. And we're going to talk about what it's like working together.
And we're going to talk about our relationship to work and what makes a good gift giver and how much we both love music. We're going to go deep and then stay real shallow all at the same time.
So it's going to be a lot of fun. And, you know, we've been trying to do this thing where before I interview a guest, I get to talk to people who know them, who are fans of them, or who want to just give me some ideas for what to ask them.
So we have gathered two great comedic actresses, Retta from Parks and Rec, who played Donna Meagle, and Darcy Carden from The Good Place. So they're going to help me get started.
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All I ever wanted was a really good hang. Hi, hang gang.
You know, it only takes three people to make a hang gang. To be a gang.
That's right. Everybody knows that.
We're talking about and to the great Rashida Jones today. Wouldn't want to talk about anyone else.
Not one singular human being. Honestly.
It's kind of overwhelming because she does so many things. Yeah.
Yeah. She's, what is it called? A polymath? Is that the word? But what's the math? Yes.

It's so many maths. It's probably math.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, Aime. I was thinking like she's so unique in that there's not – she's not – you know, even to introduce her, I don't know what you would even say.
She's not – I mean, there's so many things to list. And not just in her career, but in her's, she's so many things to so many people and she's so good at all of it.
And yet that doesn't bother me. I'm not like annoyed by that.
As I'm saying it, I'm not like rolling my eyes. I'm like, she really does it all.
And she does it so well. And in such an inspiring way.
Agree. To me, she's the lawyer in the group.
When people have like an outrageous idea or plan or think they can fix something in a certain way, I feel like Ra's the person that's like, okay, everybody relax. Here's what we're going to do.
Here's what we're going to do. This is how we fix it.
Or let me, let me just make a call. Or I feel like even though she, you know, she's not an attorney, she's the attorney of the group that she's in.
Is that weird? No, that's really well said. What makes Rashida a good hang? Well, she's super funny and she also loves to laugh.
So she makes you feel super funny, right? Which is great. She's on it.
She's really on it. She's just like, she's sharp in like in every way I can think of.
Yes. And so, and like so stylish and cool.
Totally. Like beyond cool.
It's actually oppressive. I know, I know.
It's a lot. But somehow doesn't make me feel shitty.
Again. No, never.
But I do. But I make myself feel shitty.
Yeah, me too. Because sometimes I'm just like, damn it.
Like, we're wearing Japanese pants now? No one told me. I know.
But the thing is, is we're not. She is.
She is. But all of a sudden, I'm like, oh, my clothes are small.
They're supposed to be big. Like, do we have have bangs we don't have bangs we don't we're big coats little coats okay no long hair now okay okay okay yeah totally totally glasses small glasses little coats I don't know that she's ever done little coats maybe before I knew her I've only seen her in big coats the only the only people on parks doing little coats were Adam and Aziz.
They had the littlest coats. Exactly.
I remember lifting up a coat and being like, whose coat is this? And it was Aziz's little coat. She's like a host, right? She's like a good host.
And I think maybe that's one of the reasons she's such a good hang is because she like really appreciates the, the hang portion. Like she's putting in the time to make the hang like pleasurable.
Right. Yes.
Like I don't feel a stressy vibe from her when she's hosting, for example. Yeah.
Yeah. Me too.
Like I, I'm always working out on my, I'm always working out my own stuff, which is wanting to get things like wanting it to be good and fun and being, and people coming over and saying like, hi. Yeah.
And me saying just a second, like making them feel, making them feel stressed, even though I had the party or like explaining something like don't go in this. Or if you do, this is what's going on.

Or you got to hold the handle down. Yes.
Oh, my God. Or when someone's like, can I give you a hand? And you just go, no, that's okay.
I just have a lot of things right now that I'm dealing with. And everyone looks at you and says, you did not have to invite us.
You did not have to invite us. You begged us to come over.
Oh, my God. The other question I had is I want to talk to her about dancing because we dance a lot together.
She's had a lot of dance parties for her birthday parties, and you two are big dancers. You both like to dance.
I know why I like to dance at parties. Yes.
Why do you like to dance at parties? I think about connecting with people while dancing. Like Amy, I can think of a wedding we were at where we didn't know each other that well.
It was like early days of friendship. And we just like danced at a wedding and I felt closer to you afterwards.
I felt like, like, you know what I mean? We mean? We just kind of pointed at each other. And then afterwards you're like, we took a step.
We leveled up.

For people listening, Retta is really doing some good pointing right now. um i i'm drawn to people who i feel really vibe with music and don't look crazy dancing, you know? There's not, like, especially like when we were younger, high school and college, like, white boys with rhythm were, like, you couldn't get enough.
Like, I was just like, oh, and I remember I remember and I will say one of Rashida's birthday parties one of the most impressive dancers that I didn't see coming was Max Greenfield yes Max can move um and the feeling that I got seeing him dance is the feeling I want when they see me dance.

Yeah, I feel like if a good song comes on, both of you and Rashida would be the people I would look at, point at, and be like, oh.

I was just going to say the noise you would make would be like, oh. Oh.
Oh. Oh.
Oh, shit. Oh, shit.
Oh, shit. Hey.
Here we go. Okay.
Well, we're going to. Okay.
This is perfect. We'll wrap it up with, is there any question you think, like anything you want me to ask Rashida?

It's simple.

It's a simple question.

But I think my question for Rashida specifically is when you were a little kid, what did you want to be when you grow up? Or what did you see your adult life looking like? I think what did you want to be when you grow up? Because I think because she, you know, like it's such a unique childhood where, where it kind of was like the endless possibilities of what you could possibly do. And it seems like, you know, that maybe that's one of the reasons she does so much and is so good at so many different things.
But the simple question I think is when you were a little kid, what did you want to be when you grow up? That's a great question. Mine would be, it's also a childhood question.
What was the coolest thing that ever happened to you as a kid? Because she's been around so many cool things. What really was the thing that she remembers the most and was the most exciting for her? That's probably going to be hard to pick.
I know. Because she was straight up.
So you might get a few. You might get a few things.
Like partying with E.T. and stuff.
Well, love you guys. Thank you for checking in.
I know it means a lot to squeeze this time in, and Rashida's going to be so grateful when I tell her that we chatted today. So come, come on this podcast and be

a guest soon, please. And thank you.
Can't wait. Can't wait.
Hanggang. Thank you.
So hanggang. Hanggang.
Love you guys. Okay.
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Rashida Jones is here. Hi, Rashida.
Hi, Amy. I mean, people should know that I call you Bones.
So maybe if I call you Bones during the interview. They'll know.
Yeah. And I call you Poles, Polos.
Polos. So Poles or Polos and Bones.
Polos and Bones. The new detective series.
CBS. Yeah.
I'm Paramount minus. Okay.
Bones, I'm so happy you're here. I'm so happy to be here.
Thank you for doing this. Please.
On the way over, you just told me you were listening to something in your car. I was listening to, I'm really into frequencies right now.
You know, there's like a lot of stuff, theories around like the frequency of sounds and how it impacts your brain and your mood. There's ones for anxiety, for sleep, for happiness, for abundance, whatever.
But I was listening to one for road rage. Because you have road rage? I do.
I've seen it in action because we leave each other Marco Polos and I've seen you in real time get mad. For people that are listening that don't know, Rashida and I have been friends for many years years.
It's got to be over 20 now. 20 plus.
Over 20 plus. And whenever we see each other, we just jump in.
Like we talk a lot about, we just kind of jump into the deep end. Yeah, always.
We get into feelings. We get into what we're trying to work on, what we're excited about.
Like we just get right in there. We don't do a lot of small talk, you and I.
Not a lot of small talk. And I feel like you are that way, or I can speak for myself.
I feel like I'm more and more that way with the people that I'm closest to. And the people that I'm not particularly close to are the people that I say like, what movies do you like? Right.
Yeah. And I find, I don't know about you, but I find that my tolerance for small talk has changed.
Like I used to, I used to like it and feel like it was a, it was just kind of like a way to tiptoe into a conversation. And now it feels like, why bother? Let's just get into it.
I know. Let's not waste time.
Life is short. What are you afraid of? What are you afraid of? What are you working on? Yeah, exactly.
No, no, not, not your actual job, but yourself, your inner self. What are you working on? What's your love language? What's your attachment style? Tina and I had a good convo about, we were laughing talking about Harvard.
Fuck Harvard. Yeah, fuck Harvard.
Fuck Harvard. So for people that don't know, what is your relationship with Harvard and what was your relationship with Hasty Pudding? Oh, interesting.
I was just thinking about this last night, actually. Well, first of all, I just want to say I'm very happy that you have this podcast because I'm just going to say I have been encouraging.
I've wanted this from you for a very long time. Thanks, bud.
Okay, sorry. I just had to say that.
Thanks, Dee. Okay, Harvard, Hasty Pudding.
Yeah. I mean, I went to Harvard.
Yay. I was inasty Pudding Theatricals.
But they didn't allow women. At the time, women couldn't perform.
I was a manager. I was manager of the Woman of the Year event, which you've been.
I'm sure I have not. Thank you so much, Hasty Pudding Theatricals.
What? I'm actually like the only alum. But anyway.
Wow. We need to correct that.
Whoever's listening. Yeah.
Anyway. And then my senior year, Mimi, my friend Mimi, who you know, we were the first women ever to write the music for the musical in the, in the like, whatever, 400 year history of the show.
But you, no one was allowed to sing it because it was written by women. I couldn't sing it.
No, of course not. Wow.
Yeah. And then when I went back for class day, that was kind of like the one thing I snuck into my speech.
Well, actually it was very political, but the one thing about school I snuck in was like, make it co-ed. Let's go.
I mean, enough's enough. And now it is.
It is, right? It is. Finally.
Yeah. That seems so silly.
It's so silly, but I will say it was really fun and I learned a lot. I learned a lot about production because it's legit production.

You travel to New York and Bermuda, and everybody has to, like, chip in and work on tickets and costumes.

And, like, we had an arranger who arranged for, like, a full orchestra.

It was so cool. And you, I know from us being friends, you started going to raves.

Oh, yeah, I was raving.

I was raving. Rashida was raving during Harvard.
I was. And that almost took you down.
Almost took me down. Or took you up.
Yeah, took me up and then way down. But then I joined an acapella group and everything was fine.
Acapella saved my life. But I would say the most surprising thing is probably that what I have left from the whole experience is the people.
Including Mike Schur. Including Mike Schur.
For those people who don't know who created Parks and Rec and the American office, he was Moe's. Good Place.
Good Place. Good Hand Good Place.
Good Hand Good Place. And he, wow, do you think he's going to sue me for that? Probably.
Good hand, good place? Yeah, yeah, he's very litigious. And he's working on a million other things.
And you and Mike met at Harvard. Where did you guys meet? Freshman year, we did a play together called Love, Sex, and the IRS, where we were, the play started with us making out.
Wow. Lucky him.
Thank you. I mean, he must have been like, the day when they were like, and here's your makeout partner.
It could have been anybody. He must have done a quiet fist pump.
I mean, he did it while we were making out. It was so awkward.
I mean, that's the thing is you just auditioned for shows, especially in college, and you're just like, who you get is who you get. Like, the fact that we met freshman year is nuts.
I'm having these, like, memories of when we were in – all of us were in high school and college, and we'd have to do, like, make-out scenes with just people on stage. Yeah.
And how, I guess, exciting it was. Yeah.
It was kind of It's so fun. I know.
I mean, you've had to do quite a few love scenes in TV and film. I have, yeah.
And any tips or thoughts about that? It's so weird. But also comedy make-out is so different than serious hook-up.
You're so right. You know? You're right.
I mean, like a real genuine, our friend Catherine Hahn has had to do a lot of sex scenes. Yes.
Intimate. And like a genuine, like baby girl, five orgasm sex scene is so intense.
It is. This is my baby girl dance.
I will be your father. That makes me stressed.
It's stressy. It's fully stressy.
Yeah. I'm not good at it.
I'm not the person to ask because I always feel stressed and weird about it. Because the best case scenario is that you do it and you sell some sort of chemistry, but, like, it's all above board and professional.
That's the best case scenario, which is, like, seems impossible. Also, I did hear an actor's tip one time that I thought was interesting, which is if you want to get chemistry with someone.
And actually, Parks and Rec did this really well, which is the camera became the gaze, right? So, like, you know, it caught me looking at Ben, played by Adam Scott, when Adam wasn't looking and it created this vibe and vice versa. It was so much easier than direct eye contact.
Totally. But I heard some trick that if you want to get chemistry with an actor, look at them when they're not looking at you.
Ooh. Like don't try to do it with them at all.
Just project all this fantasy stuff on them when they're not paying attention to you.

Does that work in real life?

I've tried.

And the answer is no.

The answer is a hell no.

Okay.

Okay, so do you think some of your best acting was in Parks and Rec when you had to pretend that you didn't know who Genuine was? You know, it's still one of my biggest complaints. I remember we did the table read for that, and I was like, no, no, no one's going to buy it because I don't buy it, okay? Pick anybody else on this cast to try to play that in an honest way.
It is so unfair that you're making me do this. Yeah really, yeah, it still hurts.
Because how familiar are you with genuine? We were married. I mean, you know, I live in 90s R&B.
That's where my heart is. It's not here.
I mean, it is with you, but for the most part, it's not present. It's in 90s R&B.
So he's a very important figure. Yeah.
I just want to talk for a second about your relationship to music because it's an amazing combination of deeply familiar and personal because of your family and the work you've done since you were a little kid, like the way music has surrounded your life. And then as an adult, knowing your relationship to music, you kind of come in as like, I don't know how else to explain it other than a deep appreciator of it.
Like you, you know it and can do it. And also you deeply appreciate it.
It's kind of closest to like an art historian or something. You know how art historians love art and they know it and they also know how it's important? I feel that you are that way about music.
That's really nice. Thank you for saying that.
What is your relationship to music? Music to me is the kind of thing you can't, there's something inherent about it that you can't explain why it has the impact that it does. You can break it down.
You can talk about frequencies. You can talk about combinations of notes.
You can talk about BPMs. But at the end of the day, the way it makes you feel is something that's just very hard to explain, you know, in a way that feels, if you don't believe in God, like the closest to an unknown that's outside of us.
Like you can tap into something outside of us in a way that like even I love movies, but there's a visual aspect. So you don't like use your imagination as much when you're engaging with the thing.
Well, do you think then you're like an oral, a U-R-A-L learner more than a visual learner? I am. I am.
And in fact, it's a shameful thing, but I took a lot of piano when I was little and I love playing piano, but I never really learned how to read properly because I learned so well by ear. So I play these like Chopin, Polonaise, like big pieces by ear.
I wouldn't, I couldn't read it because I was like just picking it up, you know?

Whoa.

I know. It's sort of like, it would be nice to have a balance of both, but you know, it's definitely way more our, our role, our role, our role, our role, our role, our role, our role Roberts.
Remember him? I feel like we've had some hard ass laughs. And I was trying to think the other day, like places that we've laughed, deep laughs.
And it's, it really does add years to my life. I know that.
And I wonder if you could tell the story about when we were on Parks and it was, because we talk about it, we've talked about it before. When we were on Parks and it was the first season, it was the hunting episode.
And just kind of set up, we were shooting that whole week way far away somewhere in California. You know, I don't even remember where.
And we had to do a scene with Nick Offerman. And that, I think about it sometimes the way that laugh came, it was like, it was giggle, giggle, orgasm city.
But, but, but don't worry, we'll cut that. But, but, um, um, I'm you – Well, I remember we were – he maybe ate something weird, and we were trying to give him Ipecac.
Isn't that what it was? So Nick Offerman playing Ron Swanson ate something – yeah, I don't remember actually what happened in the show. Isn't that funny? I was like determined as a nurse that I was like, you have to throw up.
You're like, you can't. Right.
You're going to get sick. And he's like, I'm fine.
Right. And I, we were trying to get this like liquid in his mouth and you know, it's Hollywood.
So, um, things that happen like on camera don't actually happen in real life. So it was written that we like hold him down and he's resisting us and we give him this thing.
But like you don't know, you don't know how small you are. Cause I think both of us, like, I'm always like, I'm like a tall person, right? Like I ask people if I feel tall.
Yeah. I feel like a tall person, but I'm not.
And I'm not. And I'm, and I'm- How tall are you? Five, three and a half.
Yeah. Yeah.
I'm five two. And Nick is solid.
Yeah. He's a solid dude.
Yeah. He's like a Midwestern corn fed dude.
Yeah. Dense and like muscular.
And he, we were trying to hold him down and he was whipping us around with such ease. Like we couldn't, we actually, the both of us could not hold him down.
And he was like, literally, he would just go, beep. And we would just fly off the bed in each direction.
We could not stop laughing. One of us, we each had one arm.
Yeah. And he would, it felt like just the flick of a wrist.
Because he was being gentle. He was being gentle.
Yeah, he wasn't really, he wasn't fighting for his life. Yeah, no, no.
And we could not get him to stay down. Could not, could not.
And I remember that feeling. Also, I think there's something fun about wrestling.
There is. It's so good.
It's so good. And being thrown around is so fun.
Yes. And he was throwing us around.
And I feel like I just, like if I was to picture it in my mind, you were just like, whee! Like I could just see you going past me in your hair going, whee! And then your legs going, whee! And me, and I just remember like, Rashida! Like I didn't ever see you flying by, which can't be true. I feel like we were tumbling all over the floor.
Like every time we got back on the bed, like and we were kind of like we were both trying to be like on top of him and then like just flipping over really quickly and I think too because Nick is such a lovely gentle guy in general we knew there was something about us that knew we weren't going to get hurt it was safe was making, like, grunting beer sounds.

It was really, really, really. It was really fun.

That was a really, I mean, I'm trying to think of, like, there was so many good crack-up moments.

Crack-up moments.

I'm 100 years old.

What a crack-up.

But I'm just like, I was, like.

That spot in Andy and April's house, remember, where we could never get a scene done?

Just that one, that living room. There was a dead spot.
Yeah. Yeah.
It was haunted. Yeah.
And then I remember there was one time you were like, Rashida! Because I could not get through it. But I really, it felt like haunted.
It did not feel like it was my fault. Yeah.
I'm sorry I said that. There was, a couple times I would see bloopers for the show and I'd be like, Amy.
No, but those days were so long. They were.
They were long. And it was fun until it wasn't.

You're like, oh my God, it's Tempe and we just want to go home. I know.
And there was a scene for people that care. There was a spot in that set where anyone who stood there couldn't get their lines.
And then of course it became self-fulfilling prophecy in many ways. Yeah.
But there was just a lot of deep laughs and deep laughs off camera. Like one of the things I treasure, and there's so many things I treasure about my friendship with you, was that we would be talking like this and we'd be just talking and talking and just like talking about our day and talking about life.
And then they would just go, action. And then we would just talk like Leslie and Ann.
And we'd do our scene and be like, I'll speak for myself. Kind of knew it, kind of didn't.
And then they'd cut, they'd work on it, and we would just go back to talking. It was like a dream job.
We filmed in between our conversations. And also I think I remember very clearly in the pilot because we had already been friends for years when we shot the pilot, and they were doing one of those spy shots, and we were in your office, and we were talking, and it was like, you know, other people were like, oh, this is great.
Like, this is a thing that really works. Their friendship, we're really going to be able to sell it.
And we're like, duh. Duh.
No kidding. What do you mean? I mean, they really did base the entire show at the end of the day on the fact that Leslie and Anne were, you know, each other's number one.
Yeah. Yeah.
Not hard to do. No.
And what, I mean, we've talked about this before, but we, when we first started the show, I think it was like, it was kind of like, we were trying to figure out who was going to play what part and who was going to come on board. And, um, and kind of like the beginnings of that show were, I'll say a little clumsy.
Crunchy. Crunchy.
Crunchy. Can we talk about it? Yeah, I would love to.
Oh my God. Yeah.
it was crunchy. Because I think for—I don't think a lot of people know this.

For the beginning, I think we both were worried that we had taken each other's part.

Like, yes.

Yeah. So I had been on hold for this untitled thing that Greg and Mike were going to write.

Right.

And I had done a year on The Office, and they let me go, which made sense. It made sense.
You had such a tough job there because everybody wanted Jim and Pam, and then guess who shows up? A very likable, cool, and everyone was like, oh no, wait. I love Karen.
It did not feel that way. People did not like me.
Like fans were not about it. But they had to create tension for the relationship to be earned later.
So I was the third point in the triangle. It's fine.
I like accept it. But anyway, so Mike was like, we're working on this other show.
I'll put you on hold. We don't know what it is yet.
Remember, people thought it was like a spinoff of The Office for a second. But anyway, so they kept like like, changing the main characters of the show.
When they pitched it to me, the boss was a guy. And they didn't know if they were going to cast me or not.
But I remember you were extremely pregnant. Yeah.
We'd just gotten back from Italy. You and I were in Italy.
Yeah. That's right.
We were in Italy. And it was very hot.
That's right. And a day later, you were like, let's go to lunch.
I need to talk to you about something. Do you remember where we went? Pastis.
Pastis. Yes, I do.
In New York City. I do.
Oh, God. And I said, let's talk about something.
Yeah. Oh, dear.
Oh, dear. Oh, dear.
No, no, no. And I was like, I want you to raise this baby with me.
It's yours. This baby is yours.
I know. That's impossible.
And you need to accept it. Um, but you, no, I actually hold this, this moment.
It's yours. I know that's impossible.
And you need to accept it. But you, no, I actually hold this moment as like a gold standard of friendship and being able to take care of your oneself and the person that you love at the same time.
I really do, Polos, because what you did and how you did it was very hard because you took me to lunch and said, I'm so sorry, but they offered me the part. Both of us thinking it was the same part I was on hold for being created by a friend of ours.
And so I immediately started crying in pestis and you held my hand and you were so warm and you were so, there was something about it where you were like, I know, I'm sorry, buddy. But you also, you didn't like do the thing that I

sometimes do where I'm codependent where I'm like, I know I suck. I'm the worst person.
I don't even deserve it. Like whatever I would say to try to make the other person feel better, which doesn't work.
You didn't do that. You like held your space and you also comforted me at the same time, which was like a very beautiful thing.
I wonder what Shure's version of this is. Let me tell you, because I left him a message almost immediately because I'm not shy.
And I was like, oh, I'm such an idiot for thinking I could even be on the show. Like anybody wants me on the show.
Of course I didn't get this. Amy is like a comedy goddess.
Oh my God, what a mean part of yourself. Very mean, very mean.
That's a person we're trying to not invite to the dinner party anymore. But so I called him.
I was like, hey, would love to talk to you. He was on a plane and he landed and he's like, uh, I was like, mm-hmm, you want to tell me what's going on? Because it would have been really nice for you to tell me and not Amy to tell me that I wasn't getting this job.
And he's like, no, no, no, back up. We changed the boss.
It's a woman. And Amy's playing the boss.

And I was like, you, oh, my God.

Like, we might be working together?

Yeah.

What?

It kind of went from, oh, no, to, oh, my God, we might be the two women on the show.

Yes, yes.

And I still wasn't cast because I still had to do a bunch of chemistry reads after that.

But that became, you know, this huge possibility of like my life being the best, from the worst to the best. God, I'm sweating even thinking about that.
He wasn't, they had, they just hadn't decided things. And they were trying to build around you, I think is what happened, around that character.
So I think they had just done that. And I think you wanted to tell me as soon as possible because we were so close, which was the right instinct.
And Mike decided to get on a plane, which was his instinct. And he just flew for hours.
He just went to different cities and he never got off the plane. And that's what execs do.
That's what a powerful person does, is they get on the plane. They just get on as many planes as possible.
My phone was off. But I have to say, you were very good.
And you've taught me a lot about handling feedback. Because like you, you know, even recently, like you reached out to friends about giving, give me some feedback on something.
Yeah. And I thought about, wow.
I mean, I, I'm always process taking, like we talked about, like just figuring out who I can get feedback from. And I love your feedback.
I trust it. I respect it.
The way you give it is very caring and loving. But feedback from the wrong person.
Oh, yeah. Not great.
Nightmare. Nightmare.
Well, how do you handle that? I will say, you know, it's part of me was doing it because my little inner critic, that person that was at the table, is so loud and mean and unreasonable. And so I look to people who love me and can tell me that that's not always the person I should be listening to.
So weirdly, my friends sometimes are like a stand-in for my highest self when I can't do it for myself. So that's, I was sort of looking for that.
And it's funny because I was looking for feedback about the things that kind of bring me joy and the parts of my work that my friends see light me up. The point is, I was very targeted about it.
I asked people that I love and respect, and that is the thing to do, I think. I also think that if you are going to get feedback from people, because a lot of us get unsolicited feedback.
Bill Hader once said to me, it was when I first started writing and he was talking about notes, because I did not understand that process. I didn't really start writing, so I was like in my 30s.
And he said, you know, you should take the note and not the solution. And that's what I feel like with feedback and people.
It's like aggregate the kind of like common threads and they can be like, okay, I'm getting a kind of similar thing in this area where people seem to think I'm this thing. What does that actually mean? And where is that coming from for me? And is that something I feel like I can fix or investigate as opposed to being like, that person has a problem with me.
And then also, as we know, everybody's just thinking about themselves all the time. 100%.
And what do you do when you're, because you're writing all the time, producing, directing, when you get a note that you deeply disagree with, how do you handle it in real time? Do you push back? Do you say, let me think about it? Do you? I most likely go, that's a really good point. I'll address that.
And then most of the time, if you don't, if you make the rest of the thing good, it doesn't matter. It's so true.
Like it's the advice I always try to give people that are starting out, which is don't fight every battle in real time because execs want to feel creative and they want to feel like they're part of it. And if you, they get embarrassed.
If you're like, what a dumb ass note. Why would you say it's just such a stupid thing? And also it's a waste of energy because it's such a long process.
And if you're like using all of your, you know, currency to fight back with everything, you're going to be exhausted. You're not going to be able to be creative.
Yeah. You go, yeah, great idea.
Let's, we're going to figure out how to solve that, you know. But then you don't do it.
Sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't make sense because the thing they're asking for isn't, is, you know, completely contradictory to the other thing they're asking for.
That happens a lot. So you can't do both.
Again, it's like if you, if somebody's having a problem with an area of the script or like a theme of the script or a character, you know something's wrong, but they're never going to know how to fix it. You have to do that.
When I gave you some feedback recently, one of the things that I said that you love to do is dance. I'm just going to bring that up.
I want to talk about dancing, the importance of dancing in your life. And our lives.
And our lives. And I want to tell you something fun about this show.
So we do this thing, like a little secret, like talking behind people's backs, but in a good way, which is before I interview you, I do a little Zoom with people and ask them what I should ask you. Oh.
So I, before you came today, I Zoomed Retta and Darcy and was like, you guys, I'm talking to Rashida. What should we ask her? And we all started talking about dancing because we were talking about how we love doing it with you, how we've done it so much with you, how we've had the joy of like doing with you over and over again at birthdays.
And it was so fun to talk about because it's like what a lot of people associate with you is the feeling of dancing and the feeling of like what it feels like to be good at dancing. Thank you.
So what's your relationship to it? What does it do for you? Well, I will say when we first met, I felt like we got right into dancing right away. Like we'd go out in New York and we would dance.
Like it was almost like that was the way we got to know each other. Like we sat and talked, but also we just went and danced.
And again, there's something that feels so instinctive, nonverbal, like just being in your body, I think as somebody who like probably is in my brain too much. It's such a, it's a relief to dance.
It's such a relief to dance. Yeah.
And I don't even know how to describe it. I just want to be dancing all the time.
And you know, just want to be dancing all the time. I think I'm a little, I think that I, my, especially at social, you know, like at social events, I get a little anxious and I need to express it somehow.
Yes. And the chatting and talking, like you said, the small talk makes me feel crazy.
Yes. Yes.
I would, and there's nothing worse for me than being in a small talk conversation and seeing the dance floor and hearing a song and being like, I can't believe I'm not there right now. And some, I have very rudely been like, excuse me, and just run to the dance floor because I cannot miss a good song.
And Darcy and Retta and you have all been to my birthday party. So I used to have an annual birthday party that was the Pajama Jammy Jam.
And there were very strict rules. They were, come in your pajamas.
You can't not, you will not be let in without your pajamas. I only served cereal and pizza and candy.
And this is not a party for socializing. There will be no talking at a corner.
You're there to dance and dance only. You have to dance.
And people stuck to the rules. And the people, like the diehard people who want to be there to dance, you could tell.
Like there is like a, there's certain people who are like that and there's some people that are not. I remember in those early years too people saying, I don't really like to dance.
Should I come? And I'd say no. No.
Yeah, don't come. It's fine.
We'll hang out some other time in a different way, but that's not this. Have a cup of coffee outside of a deli sometime, but not this.
Not this. And it is like, it is a marathon.
Like we get there, we are on the dance floor, DJ Tandaji is messing it up. Like every era, just crushing it.
And we're just there for six and a half hours with a couple of water breaks. Like we just don't even talk to each other.
No. But Retta was funny.
She was like, Retta was saying, like, the thing I love the most is when you find out a white guy can really dance. And she said Max Greenfield.
Yeah. Max Greenfield really brought it.
Also, Ben Schwartz, great dancer. People should know that.
John Ralphio. Great dancer.
And also, like, understands 90s R&B and 2000s R&B in, like, a deep, deep historical way. Also, like, it's great because it's such an equalizer to wear pajamas.
It's not like – and I, you know, if you want to wear, like, a sexy pajama, okay, but that's not really the point. The point is to be comfortable and be kind of uniform in the sense that you can really focus on the dancing.
I sound like extremely strict about this, and it's not.

It's actually fun.

And the way we're talking about it makes it sound like it's not fun.

You're talking to a person that I think rules are what make things fun.

I hear somebody laughing in this room.

I don't know why that's funny.

Rules are boundaries, right?

Yes.

Everything has like, you know, you can't just be like, come whenever, and anybody can come or whatever. It's like, that's a nightmare.
Yeah. If someone's like, from 7 to 11, or we're going here, or like that, I feel seen, taken care of.
Yes. Somebody said, I'm going to do this thing.
It's going to go like this. Then you can have your feelings about it.
But this is what, like, it makes me feel like people are taking care of themselves. It's a very swim lesson.
Yes. Yes.
Okay. Swim lesson.
I just remembered my high school friends also all up in the club. All of your high school friends.
And I know all of your high school friends because of those jammy jams and your college friends. Yes.
And they're amazing. Thank you.
Thanks. And they're so fun.
But talk to us about swim lesson for a second because, yes, tell us what swim lesson is. Well, to your point, it's a, it's a movie about a swim teacher, Bill Marsh, who has taught over 5,000 kids from like ages two to five.
Um, and he has a very particular way of teaching. Um, but, but part of that is the sort of boundary, uh, his boundaries that he sets with these kids.
So he's like, you can have all the feelings you want, but you have to stay in the pool. It's an eight-day intensive program.
And the hope and actually the outcome most of the time, very, very, very most of the time, is that the kids have these breakthroughs. And they go from crying and screaming and vomiting and running out of the pool to really enjoying being underwater and actually swimming a little bit.
And it is this sort of parable for what it is to be alive. It's the first of many, many, many times that you will face something that you don't understand, that you're scared of, that you don't know how to do, and you make some progress and you feel good about yourself and you push through that.
And it's both the pushing through it and the

learning something new that makes you feel, that gives you self-esteem.

And you and Will McCormick directed it, produced it.

It's a short documentary.

Beautiful short doc. It's winning a ton of awards.

Yeah.

And it's, yeah, where can we see it?

You can see it on YouTube, on the LA Times channel on YouTube.

Highly recommend it. It's so incredible.
We got to screen it. I got to see it when you screened it at Pixar, which was very special.
That was so awesome. And I don't think a lot of people know about your tenure at Pixar.
I mean, it's almost impossible, Bones, to get a full, you know, I just have to do little snapshots of your wide and illustrious career because you have done so many things. You do so many things so well.
And because you're a curious person who likes to challenge themselves, you also are just doing new things all the time. And on top of the million places that people have seen you act and the things they've seen you write and direct, I don't think people also know that you had a stint at Pixar where you were writing.
And you just have this way in which you kind of are of the world. You really want to experience a lot of things.
Thank you for saying that because for me, it's like a, I don't want it to be a problem, but it's like, I see myself as a generalist almost, you know, like where I don't, I sort of do like a little dot, like a tiny little dive into all these areas. But like a lot of people by the time they're 50 have done a deep dive into one area.
And I feel grateful that I haven't totally done that. But then in some regards, I'm like, hmm, had I spent all of those hours doing one thing, would I be like that kind of, you know, would I be like, you know, virtuosic in one place? I think also, I mean, the truth is, you know, my beloved father who passed away a couple months ago, he, the bar of what he accomplished in this world is so high.
It's unfairly high for anybody. And thank God for him because he really did like change culture.
And so if I were being honest, like, you know, he was a great dad and he loved me and he was so encouraging and he was so proud of me. But at the end of the day, I'm looking at this person who's accomplished things that are unimaginable and I can't not let that enter my orbit.
So yeah, my standards are stupidly high and unfairly high to myself. So that's also something I'm thinking about as I approach 50.
I'm like, okay, how do I let go? That was his life. I'm so glad he let it.
And that's not my life. And what is my life? And also what do I find kind of like joy and connection? And what do I feel good at doing in my life that has nothing to do with that? And also like, I do feel like this, there's this like hat trick where like the, the oppression of like only being one thing and being like domestic, you know, domestic and whatever and knocking out the house.
We've done the opposite, which is like the pressure, the oppression of like having to do everything and then pretend like it's all easy and we're all fine with it. Like, yeah, that's, it's, it's impossible.
It's an impossible standard. And I like, one of the reasons why I want to do this podcast is as I've watched so many men do the bare minimum.
Is this, is this your bare minimum? And this, I'm truly giving 25%, which is a, for most people is 75%. But it's like, enough is enough, enough with%.
Sure. And enough with improving ourselves and listening to stuff about how we're supposed to get better and better and better.
But it will make the rest of our life very interesting. Well, yeah.
I mean, we're all going to live on a farm together and, you know, like, right? We're all going to live on a farm together. 100%.
So Darcy and Radha had two questions for you. Okay.
They're kind of the same question. And then I'm going to finish with the question that we're asking everybody on Good Hang.
So the question they had for you, which is kind of a cute question, because it kind of came off of us hanging out and talking about how Retta described you as like, you know, like, Rashida can be the lawyer of the group, which I love. So true.
Which is like, wait, hold on. But it got us talking about who, little Rashida.
Like, what did little Rashida want to be when she grew up? What was her, what did she want her job to be? Well, Retta is partially right. I wanted to be a lawyer.
Really? Mm-hmm. I wanted to be a lawyer or a judge or the president.
No thanks. No thanks to that one.
But yeah, I wanted to be a lawyer or a judge. Did you know anyone that was a lawyer or a judge? My grandfather was a lawyer, and my uncle is a judge.
No way. Yeah, my uncle, Richard, is a judge.
And you saw him—did you ever see him in action? Like see him bang a gavel and like judge? No, but his brain is just that, he's got that brain. He's just like, he's like, he's parsing all the details and he's putting the facts together and he's like assessing.
I love that. Do you think you would, like you make a good jury member? Do you think you're able to be? I don't.
Me neither. I don't think so.
I don't think so. I think it would be, I'm too emotional for that.
Same. Judge is different because I think you're like, you are considering emotion that's in there.
I mean, obviously you're considering facts, but I think I like the idea of being the adjudicator of right and wrong, which is something I'm like trying to let go of as I get older because there's so much gray and like, it's so boring to think that, you know, morally, what's the right thing for anybody, you know? But I think I liked it, like as a kid, you know, like you're always trying to suss out like where your boundaries are and like what's good and what's bad. And I think I liked the idea of like really enforcing that.
You know, we did a fun, jokey thing on Parks and Rec where we took a picture one day on some like courthouse steps, me, you, Catherine Hahn, Adam Scott, Paul Rudd. And we looked like we were in a 90s drama called Philly Justice, what we called ourselves.
And then because it was whatever season seven of Parks and we were in a 90s drama called Philly Justice. It's what we called ourselves.

And then because it was whatever, season seven of Parks,

and we were probably phoning it in at that point,

but we ended up pretending that we used to be in that show,

and we did a whole text chain.

The writers took time off writing the show

and wrote an entire episode of Philly Justice.

That's right.

The writers wrote an episode that we filmed

that I have a copy of that I keep wanting to put on, like,

TikTok or something.

I want to see it.

Oh, so good.

Morgan Sackett, our producer, sent me the full thing.

And you play Angie Martinez.

Yeah.

And she's a lawyer.

Yeah.

Right?

She's a lawyer?

She's a young—

She's like a young second law student or something.

Defense attorney or, like, yeah.

Or something, yeah.

And there's a bunch of scenes where you object to things and you throw things down. Not in a courtroom.
Yeah, you're not in a courtroom. And you – I think you and Han have like a – Rivalry? No, I think you're in love.
Oh, we are? I think you guys – maybe you yell at each other and then you kiss at some point. I forget.
Oh, my gosh. I've got to get that out there on the internet so people can see it.
That was really fun. But it's so fun.
And there is a side of you that 100% I could see going in and putting a briefcase down. Yeah, I'm not going to law school.
But, yeah, I think some part of me thinks I'm a judge. Isn't that just a testament to how much downtime you have on the set? Yeah created an entirely new show? Yeah.
We had a, yeah, we had time for a whole other show that no one ever saw. Okay.
And then the last question, good, Hank. So we're trying to figure out how to like continually self-regulate here and find joy in all different places.
And like, I'm asking everybody to talk about what gives them relief.

What is the thing they go to when they want to, like, laugh, check out, tune in,

take a load off?

It's small or big, but I feel like we learn a lot about somebody by what they laugh at.

What's yours?

Well, contrary to what we just talked about,

which is I love good music and I love, you know,

I love the emotionality of listening to great music.

Nothing makes me laugh harder than really confident,

really bad singing.

Like sincerely confident bad singing.

People that know that they're doing a bad song? Okay. I'm not laughing at them.
I just like the gusto in which people – like I would watch the first couple seasons of American Idol with friends. Like appointment television, sit down.
not like when it got to the good people

but like those first five episodes

where people were just coming in hard

with like no musicality whatsoever. And they were super cocky.
Super cocky. There was one girl who, it was like what she did was actually musically amazing because she was tone deaf.
She went to like six different keys in like 20 seconds. Like just kind of brilliant, but didn't know what she said.

And nailed it and walked out being like, I got it.

Nailed it.

She said she was like Mariah Carey.

That's what she said when she walked in.

That's so interesting that you say that because there must be some like psychological part

of you that likes the way people are approaching music as something that you revere so badly.

Like it must be a huge release.

It is.

It is.

And to that point, I remember there was David Wayne and I once, I pitched this bit

Thank you. That's something that you revere so badly.
Yes. Like it must be a huge release.
It is. It is.
And to that point, I remember there was David Wayne and I once, I pitched this bit to him. It did not go well when we did it at a comedy at Sketch Fest.
Is that what it's called? Yeah. Sketch Fest.
Where I was like, let's do California, California, what was it? California Dreaming? California Dreaming. California Dreaming.
I'm like, but let's do it like super genuine, sincere, come in like with the guitar, like start singing, and then I'm going to come in with the harmonies and they're going to be totally wrong. It was funny in concept, but like it was a release.
It was like a feeling like, oh, I don't have to sound good. Yes.
I could just go for it. Do you, have you ever seen that Domingo sketch on SNL? Totally.
That's kind of like when they- They do a great job. When they come in so off.

Yes. How do they do that?

I wonder if somebody coached them how to sing badly. Because there's

good singers singing badly.

I know. It's satisfying to watch

Ariana Grande not get

the note. Yes.

But it's not like, sometimes when really good singers

sing badly, they're like,

and you can tell they're good singers.

They're actually doing a good job convincing people they're bad.

When you do karaoke or see people sing karaoke, do you like it when they're off?

That's a little bit more painful because it's in person.

Okay.

You know?

So just to get it down to the nitty gritty, it's like being with friends, watching on TV, someone that comes in and is like, buckle up. And then they just start singing.
And then they just wail. Roar by Katy Perry, and they get it way wrong.
Yes, yes. And then they leave being like.
Nailed it. Yeah.
Suck on that. People who are so confident were like, if you laughed, they wouldn't crumble.
Like, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's good. That makes me want to watch old American Idol.
I'm going to send you some. Because I found them again.
I found like the girl that knocked my socks off. Wait, let me just look at her before we go.
Because we can do this now. I have a laptop.
It's deep in like a, it's like in a super cut of like. Do you remember her name? I don't, but it's like – Do you remember what she sang? Yeah, she sang Phil Collins' Take a Look Against All Odds.
And she came in and she was like, people say I look just like Mariah Carey and I sound just like her too. Is this her? No, that's not her.
Oh. You sure? Oh, my God, it's her.
Okay, okay, oh, my God. That's her.
Sorry, we've got to listen to this before we go. Oh, yeah, she said she looks like Mariah Carey.
She doesn't not look like Mariah Carey. No, she does.
She's cute. She's cute.
You've got to turn her way up. You would not think that this is going to go badly.
That's what I mean. She's cute.
She's wearing a shawl. She's wearing a shawl.
She has really cute hair. She's, like, she definitely, like, she wears cute jeans.
And she's a little too close to the judges, which is already making me nervous.

Like, she's standing too close to the table, which she doesn't have a good, like...

Here she goes.

You ready?

Here she goes.

Okay, hold on.

Stand by.

The end, she goes off-watch.

Take a good look at me now.

That's the chance I'm going to take. Take a look at me now.
Okay. Wow.
That's like acrobatic. That's very good.
That's hard to do. Like, I've tried to imitate that.
It's hard to do. That is very, very good.
You're right. Yeah.
That's very, very satisfying to watch because you're right. She's kind of good.
She just not, she's not hitting any notes. No, she's not hitting any keys.
And within that, she's hitting all the keys, which is amazing. Like, it's really hard to do.
She's also doing something that I like when singers do, where she's holding her throat as if that. Like, she's like, I'll get it.
She's so nervous. I mean, she's so nervous, you can tell.
But she's like, this is not going well. She knows.
She starts to figure it out. Wow, that is really satisfying.
I'm going to send that to myself so I can watch it. Because that's so good.
Also. Take a look at me now.
Now. Because you're just an empty space.
And you're coming. Take a look at me now.
And then at one point she goes. She gives a little shout, too.
She didn't seem to be feeling like it was going badly, though. Really? I think she was like, uh-oh.
Maybe too late, but she was like, uh-oh. I think this was like, please stop.
Please stop. Please just stop.
How funny would it have been at the very end? She ended and went, uh-oh.

That would have been so funny if she said, uh-oh at the end. All right.
Love you, Bones. Thanks for doing this.
Love you, Bones. That was fun.
All right. Thank you so much, Rashida Jones.
You were the best. I love you.
Thank you for doing this for me. I don't think you had much of a choice, but thank you for doing it anyway, and I will do anything for you.

We talked a lot about music and it makes me think that before this episode is over, I feel like I need to just ask Chapel Roan if she'll come on again. Chapel, Chapel, are you there? Are you listening? Uh, we've been reaching out to your team and I'm assuming that no answer means a maybe.
And I'm excited about having you on. I just think you're the best.
I just love your music and everything that you're doing for the music industry. And I kind of started this podcast to talk to you.
And when you come on, I'm going to end it. So I haven't told Spotify that yet, but you will be my last guest.
So Chapel, come on soon because I'm tired and I'd love to wrap it up. So thank you everybody for listening.
Thanks for hanging and we'll catch you next time. You've been listening to Good Hang.
The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and me, Amy Poehler. The show is produced by The Ringer and Paper Kite.
For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaya McMullen, and Alaya Zanaris. For Paper Kite, production by Sam Green,

Joel Lovell, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Original music by Amy Miles.

This episode is presented by the Toyota Grand Highlander. Life's journey brings constant change, filled with exciting surprises, new chapters, and grand challenges.
And the Toyota Grand Highlander is more than a vehicle. It's your partner in embracing all life throws at you.
Blinked and the kids have grown up? The third row can fit three adults. From daily routines to life-changing adventures, the Toyota Grand Highlander is up for every grand challenge.
Learn more at toyota.com slash grandhighlander. Toyota, let's go places.
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