Ina Garten

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Speaker 2 Based on a 2023 survey by CERN Ern Visa, 500 doctors who recommend weight loss programs to patients. Well, hello, everyone.
I'm very excited for this episode of Good Hang.

Speaker 2 I'm Amy Poehler, and joining me today is Ina Garden. Ina is...

Speaker 2 just a delight and we are going to talk about so many fun things. We're going to to talk about her TV show podcast, Be My Guest.

Speaker 2 We're going to talk about

Speaker 2 the best way to cook carrots. We're going to talk about enriched uranium.

Speaker 2 And she arrives with the best gift I've received yet and the first gift I've received. So I can't wait to show you that.

Speaker 2 But before we get started, we always like to talk to somebody who knows our guest and has a question for them. And we have a real humdinger on this one.
I mean, just a

Speaker 2 comedic genius, everybody's fave. I mean, what hasn't she done? Emmys,

Speaker 3 TV, movies, just

Speaker 2 a social activist. She's in her garden.
She's protecting herself from the sun. She's wearing a giant hat.
Her name is Julia Louis Dreyfus, J-L-D.

Speaker 2 This episode is presented to you by Walmart. I'd like to to say that I'm a pretty good gift giver, and for me, it's about making the extra effort to find the perfect gift.

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Speaker 2 Your hat looks great.

Speaker 4 I don't know what else to do.

Speaker 2 I mean, look, at this point, we should hats, whatever, scarves, whatever.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 Scarves, hats.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. You're the best for getting on and doing this.

Speaker 3 Hi, friend.

Speaker 4 Hi, my friend. I'm so happy to see you.

Speaker 2 I'm so happy to see you, too. And I was just thinking about the last time we saw each other, which was

Speaker 2 getting our hair colored. Yeah, at the salon.

Speaker 2 At the salon where all the ladies go to meet. Are you in California or?

Speaker 4 I'm in California. I'm in Santa Barbara, California.
Hence, this hat.

Speaker 2 It is a very California hat. It is, actually.

Speaker 4 But I do, in fact, this isn't bullshit. I actually do wear this hat all the time because I'm conscious of getting too much sun.

Speaker 2 You know what? I was just saying, I was just telling someone that my dermatologist told me, like,

Speaker 2 no more sun. Like, you're done with sun, the end, period.

Speaker 4 Yeah. And are you listening to your dermatologist?

Speaker 2 I'm finally, I'm sadly, I knew, I've known this for many years, but I need to talk to you about, and all the women listening, about full sun shirts.

Speaker 4 I know everything.

Speaker 3 Oh, I can't wait.

Speaker 2 I knew you would. I knew you would.

Speaker 4 I have so much information for you. First of all, get this hat

Speaker 3 number one

Speaker 2 i knew you would and i so appreciate it because first of all babe you look incredible well nobody looks better than you all the filters that are on this computer thank you as well you at one point you should do that zoom thing where you just get some you put sunglasses on yourself and then you turn into a cat and then the background turns into a beach i wish i knew how to do that

Speaker 2 um well we're talking to ina garden today Lucky you. And you know what? Before I even get into that, congratulations on your podcast.

Speaker 4 And congratulations on your podcast.

Speaker 3 Thank you. Just two ladies having a podcast.

Speaker 4 Welcome to Showbiz.

Speaker 2 Where did you first meet Ina?

Speaker 4 On the podcast. Wow.

Speaker 2 You became pod, you became friends after the pod? Correct.

Speaker 4 Like real proper friends.

Speaker 3 Oh, cool.

Speaker 2 How did that happen?

Speaker 4 I don't know. I just feel like she's, have you ever met her?

Speaker 3 Nope. Never met her.

Speaker 4 Oh, well, you're going to just have the best conversation because she's as

Speaker 4 she's exactly what you think. She's completely authentic.
She's very

Speaker 4 kind.

Speaker 4 She's obviously very intelligent. She's hilarious.
She's just got a great attitude. She's incredibly cheerful.
FYI, that's a question you need to ask her.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 4 Why are you so cheerful?

Speaker 2 And say it that aggressively.

Speaker 4 I mean, I actually mean that. I don't mean it sarcastically, although we sounded it, but I mean, like, seriously, why are you so cheerful? And also, what puts you in a bad mood?

Speaker 4 I'd like to know what really puts Ina in a bad mood.

Speaker 2 It's so interesting to say that because, like, in doing research on her, and you know, like, she has this,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 she talks about it in her book, like a decision she makes to decide to enjoy life.

Speaker 2 She just like kind of, you know, a lot of it is meeting Jeffrey.

Speaker 4 A lot.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And him saying,

Speaker 2 you know, I'm going to give you a safe container in which to decide, you know, what kind of life you want to live and we're going to find joy in our lives.

Speaker 2 But she really seems like she's the kind of person that made a decision and makes a decision every day.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I think she does. She's very intentional that way.

Speaker 4 And she's a hard worker. I mean, she's, I don't know if she'd call herself a workaholic, but she works hard.
She likes to work.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 that's reflected in the work that she does. And speaking of which,

Speaker 4 this is, I have another

Speaker 4 question for her that I'd like you to ask her.

Speaker 3 Yes, please.

Speaker 2 About sun protection.

Speaker 4 No, no. Yes, sun protection for sure.
Definitely call me. Okay.
Again, hat that you're wearing all day long. You're sleeping in it.
But I'm in my kitchen.

Speaker 4 And the reason I'm in my kitchen is because it's a cooking question.

Speaker 2 And also, I just want to point out for people who are listening but not watching, a gorgeous bowl of lemons behind you. Oh, just a gorgeous bowl.

Speaker 4 What an extraordinary segue, Amy Pollard, because the dish that I created was a lemon dish.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 4 And I made a lemon sorbet, which I'm going to show you.

Speaker 3 Brag.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 we're going into Julia's refrigerator right now.

Speaker 2 She made a sorbet in a lemon. Okay, so listeners, this is a gorgeous sorbet that is in a lemon.
In a lemon. Rind.

Speaker 3 Is it peel?

Speaker 3 Lemon case?

Speaker 4 It's in the,

Speaker 4 shall we say, the casing?

Speaker 2 The lemon cup.

Speaker 4 She took. In the casing of a lemon.

Speaker 2 Okay, she made the sorbet and then she scooped out the lemon and she put it back in. So now the lemon serves as a dish.

Speaker 3 Correct.

Speaker 4 And so the sorbet is delicious looks incredible made it with lemon water and sugar and lemon zest okay

Speaker 4 but here's the issue it's very icy

Speaker 4 and it's not creamy ah i see So the question, I don't know if you cook, Amy.

Speaker 2 Do you?

Speaker 2 I love to cook. And I want to talk to Ina about it because I was late to cooking, very late.

Speaker 4 Well, by the way, all of her books are good for you because they're so

Speaker 4 easy.

Speaker 4 It's not crazy complicated and delicious delicious recipes but anyway i need to know what to add to this i'm guessing it's some sort of a binder of some sort that i can add to this to give it more of a um

Speaker 4 creamier

Speaker 4 sorbet texture versus what i've got which by the way is totally delicious but you can see it sort of it sort of breaks off i find ice cream and sorbet to be very hard to make very hard to make well.

Speaker 4 I got news for you. This is delicious.

Speaker 4 Maybe don't ask for anything.

Speaker 2 Yeah, maybe it's perfect.

Speaker 2 But I would like to know. I really would.
Okay, so I'm going to ask her about the sorbet. I'm going to ask her about her positive attitude.

Speaker 2 And I will just say, and this is an obvious question, but now that you are friends and you hang out, have you and Brad gone to dinner with Ina and Jeffrey?

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 3 Great. And two very successful, long marriages, both of you.

Speaker 2 You know how I feel about you and your husband, Brad Hall? Truly couple goals, both of you. Just.

Speaker 4 Oh, that's so nice.

Speaker 2 You know, you know, there's not always a lot of couples that you want to hang with.

Speaker 3 That's true.

Speaker 2 It's true. It's usually one or the other.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's true. We have dinner plans tonight with a couple.

Speaker 4 Let's just say I'm thinking of a way right now to get out of it.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You could just say

Speaker 2 you were wearing a hat and it I was wearing a hat, and I got a headache,

Speaker 4 got too tight, I ate too much sorbet, uh, I'm sick

Speaker 4 at it. That'll work, okay.

Speaker 2 So, I'm gonna ask Ina about her attitude, sorbet, and what puts her in a bad mood.

Speaker 4 I'd really like to know what puts her in a bad mood. I hope she'll answer honest.

Speaker 2 I know, I wonder. I mean,

Speaker 2 truly,

Speaker 2 what is so interesting about her is

Speaker 2 her success came late in life.

Speaker 4 Yeah,

Speaker 4 FYI,

Speaker 4 she worked in the White House

Speaker 4 in

Speaker 4 nuclear energy, as I recall.

Speaker 3 Dang.

Speaker 4 What a life indeed. So I commend you for talking to her and tell her I said hi.

Speaker 2 I will.

Speaker 4 And call me later and I'll give you a bunch of sunscreen tips, including clothing

Speaker 4 and products for your faith.

Speaker 2 I got to get the whole thing.

Speaker 4 Use the sunscreen. I've got good sunscreen that doesn't turn your face white.

Speaker 2 Okay. i i always use sunscreen but i think i'm at a point now where i have to wear the full shirt which

Speaker 2 i know god you know it's just like it feels like everything fun is taken away

Speaker 2 that's the attitude amy except for sorbet except for sorbet tell ina that tell her that

Speaker 4 Help me get out of this funk if you can.

Speaker 2 Do you ever feel like everything fun is taken away? Anyway,

Speaker 2 Julia's having some trouble with her sorbet and the creaminess of it. So let's get to that.

Speaker 2 All right. Thank you for jumping on.
I really appreciate it. And

Speaker 2 will you come do this someday when you're not doing yours? I know you're so busy, but come.

Speaker 4 I would love to. Absolutely love to.
Because you are, in fact, a good hang.

Speaker 2 Thank you. So are you, friend? And I think about our times together a lot and always want more of them.
So let's make it happen.

Speaker 4 Done and done.

Speaker 2 This message is brought to you by Apple Card. AppleCard members can earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases wherever they shop.

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Speaker 3 So I brought you a little present. I shopped all over the world for it.
I went to Hermes. I went to all the fabulous stores.
And

Speaker 3 I chose something I thought you might like. Ina.

Speaker 2 Listeners, Ina's giving me a beautiful green bag. This is some ASMR, some crinkle ASMR.

Speaker 3 Oh my goodness.

Speaker 3 Did I guess right? I'm getting chills.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 No, it's not a diamond necklace. Oh,

Speaker 3 this is so incredible.

Speaker 2 Jenna, do you know what this is?

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 3 Lena brought a fake roast chicken.

Speaker 3 Just to add to your collection.

Speaker 3 Actually, my heart is pounding.

Speaker 3 My heart is pounding.

Speaker 2 First of all, there's so many things I love about this.

Speaker 3 Thank you. I love this.

Speaker 2 I really, I'm almost going to cry.

Speaker 2 I like that it is the same size as a roast chicken.

Speaker 3 It's not a fake fake. It's a real fake.

Speaker 2 I like the glistening. There's some kind of fake.

Speaker 3 I like that its little legs are tied together.

Speaker 2 This is actually how you would approach, because I make your roast chicken with funnel. Yes, it's my favorite recipe.

Speaker 2 And this, and you talk about tucking the wings and tying here and putting the lemons inside. And the weight of it, you can't, listeners, you can't feel it, but it's got a good weight, but not much.

Speaker 2 Like if you dropped it on your toe, you would break it.

Speaker 2 I know that is the night.

Speaker 3 As you've heard, I love fake food. And I've gotten that idea here.

Speaker 2 And I know I should probably put it in the back, but I also want to keep it close.

Speaker 3 Oh, I love it. Okay, I'll put it in the back.
Thank you so much. What a lovely gift.

Speaker 2 And now everyone who sees it will know that it came from you.

Speaker 2 I mean, your roast chicken.

Speaker 2 We have a lot to talk about today.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 But I'm sure you've heard this from many people, but what you, you are like a translator. So

Speaker 2 you take what you've learned and what you know and you make people understand it. And it's a rare skill.

Speaker 3 Oh, thank you. And that's wonderful.

Speaker 2 I just, this, this roast chicken,

Speaker 2 even though it's fake, is making me think about the fact that you taught me how to make a roast chicken, which

Speaker 2 what and what is bigger than that and deeper than that is you.

Speaker 3 It's not about the chicken. It's about when you cook, everybody shows up.
And then you create a community around yourself.

Speaker 3 And I didn't know that until i started writing cookbooks but it's just a really important thing that we all need to feel like we're part of something and that we take care of people they take care of us and a roast chicken is the most basic thing they're almost i don't think there's a culture in the world that doesn't have some kind of roast chicken so people start podcasts sometimes to check mics and they say what'd you eat for breakfast like what what did you eat for breakfast is the is the question that a lot of people ask um when they're starting a podcast i know what did you have for breakfast this morning i have the same thing i always have.

Speaker 3 I either have, and I go for years with one breakfast and then I switch and I go for years with another breakfast. So I always have whole grain toast with really good butter.

Speaker 3 I love French butter and coffee and that's breakfast.

Speaker 2 Coffee drinker, how do you take your coffee?

Speaker 3 With milk. And tea drinker at all?

Speaker 3 I start drinking tea around 10.30. Like not at 10.29, not 10.31, but at 10.30, my brain goes, tea.

Speaker 2 And no more coffee the rest of the the day.

Speaker 3 Probably not, yeah.

Speaker 2 That's what I was telling a lot of my friends. I have a lot of young friends who talk about how they can't sleep.
And when you check out their coffee intake, they're having coffee.

Speaker 3 It's crazy. It's crazy.
But I brought something else with me, too, while we're on that subject of breakfast.

Speaker 3 You brought something else with me. And I think Jenna might have it right here.
Ina!

Speaker 3 If we play our cards.

Speaker 3 Ina's giving me more things.

Speaker 3 I'm overwhelmed. Well, I thought we have to

Speaker 3 do a little bit of a drill party.

Speaker 3 We will have a good party. Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 2 Okay, so.

Speaker 3 So they had fabulous strawberries at Edaly downstairs. My name is Pauline.
And

Speaker 3 they're from Harry's Berries in, I think it's in the Northwest.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Harry's Berries is really big in California, too.

Speaker 3 It's just the best. And I thought we have to have something to drink with.
Oh, my gosh. So we get a nice chill Torsecco.

Speaker 3 This could be breakfast.

Speaker 2 I want you to know

Speaker 2 I barely drink anymore, so I'm a real lightweight.

Speaker 3 Oh, I'm worse. I'm totally worse.
I always say I spend so much more time talking about drinking than I do actually drinking.

Speaker 3 If I have a half a glass of that, I'm going to really start displaying some secrets. There's going to be some tears.

Speaker 3 I think I might have to fill your glass.

Speaker 3 First, getting it open is not so easy. I used to be in the food service industry.
Oh, you were so on.

Speaker 2 I'd be happy to open it for you because.

Speaker 3 I think you're going to be the one to do this.

Speaker 2 Okay, because I used to open a lot of. Wait, why are you flinching, Jenna? I know how to open.

Speaker 2 So here's the key is

Speaker 3 to turn the bottle, not the cork, right?

Speaker 2 Exactly. And also,

Speaker 2 you want to do the

Speaker 2 thing where you talk about something else while you're doing it. So, no distract.

Speaker 3 Oh, that's very good.

Speaker 2 I would just say, like, you know, when you're opening your champagne, you're just saying, so just a couple of things about the specials tonight.

Speaker 2 We have a gorgeous fake roast chicken

Speaker 2 that is really delicious. And we have

Speaker 3 well done, like a pro. Whoa.

Speaker 3 Oh, my god, may I pour it? Yes, please. Thank you so much.
Okay, we're pouring champagne.

Speaker 3 Podcasts are great, guys.

Speaker 2 All you do is you get presents and then you have champagne with Aina and strawberries.

Speaker 3 This isn't this very pretty woman, champagne and strawberries.

Speaker 3 This is how we imagined our life. Cheers.

Speaker 2 Cut to me immediately crying.

Speaker 2 Okay. Wow.
And these strawberries look amazing too. You know, I'm going to say something a little controversial.
There's going to be a lot of controversy in this podcast.

Speaker 2 Fruit.

Speaker 3 Fruit? You don't like fruit?

Speaker 2 I like it, but I'll take a vegetable over fruit. I'll take vegetables over fruit.

Speaker 3 But fruit that is picked before you eat it,

Speaker 3 that tastes like fruit. The problem is a lot of things here have been picked like six months ago and they're shipped somewhere.

Speaker 3 It's not like going to a farm stand and buying when when you go to france there are stores that sell fruit that when you go to pick out a pear they say no you want these pears and do you want to eat it today or tomorrow and they're choosing it by how ripe it is so it's going to be perfect today or perfect tomorrow the problem is we're eating fruit out of season yeah i mean the strawberries are in season we're eating fruit that's not ripened on the vine yeah it's been ripened by sitting around which doesn't ripen it yeah it just ages it yeah um so the thing about good, like good strawberries, it tastes like strawberry jam.

Speaker 3 You don't need to do anything with it.

Speaker 2 And I know this is kind of a Sophie's choice, but if you had to go between sweet and salty, what would be your choice? Are you a savory or are you a sweet person?

Speaker 3 I'll be savory. I'll be savory.
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 So, fruit sometimes is a little like, I'd rather have a cheese than a fruit.

Speaker 3 Oh, I'm with you there. Okay.
Cheese and bread. I mean, like.
I'm going to forget it. Cheese and bread, Desert Island.
You and I are good.

Speaker 2 What you grew up in Brooklyn, what did you you eat growing up? Your mother was a dietitian. Yeah.
Did you have, did that,

Speaker 2 what were you eating at home? And what did you eat growing up?

Speaker 3 She was very extreme in what she served. And she believed that you should only eat protein and vegetables and nothing else.
I mean, there were no, there were no,

Speaker 3 there wasn't bread. There wasn't french fries.
There wasn't,

Speaker 3 there was, I mean, literally no carbs. Wow.
So I was like starving when I was a kid. And there was no cookies and milk when you got home from school.

Speaker 3 If I asked her for something for, um, at one, if I got home and I was hungry, she'd go, oh, just eat an apple. I mean, nobody wants an apple after school.

Speaker 2 No, especially since they've just given one to a teacher and associated with teachers. But it's, it's interesting because, you know,

Speaker 2 in

Speaker 2 when you grew up and after, there was a,

Speaker 2 I mean, there still is, of course, this crazy diet culture, but there was this like weird fear about food. Like, and the fear shifts all the time.

Speaker 2 Sometimes we're afraid of carbs, then we're afraid of fats then we're afraid of like and you've witnessed this the trends that where people come and go and they decide what we're supposed to be afraid of and I remember growing up grew up in the 70s there was just a lot of

Speaker 2 misinformation about food it was just we just didn't know what we didn't know I guess I mean at the end of the day I think the more you cook

Speaker 3 and two simple things to cook and the less you eat processed foods, that's really all you need to know. I know.
And if you eat a balanced diet, you feel better. I know.

Speaker 3 And it doesn't mean you're, you know, you're living on carbs or there are no carbs. It's balanced.

Speaker 3 And if you want to be healthier, then eat a little more vegetables and a little less protein and carbs. But I mean, that's

Speaker 3 not that complicated.

Speaker 2 But real food was not something discussed in the 70s. The 70s was about gadgets and shortcuts, right?

Speaker 2 Because women were going back to work and it was very much like, hey, you don't have to make the meal. Make, you know, make stuff in your microwave instead.

Speaker 2 And there was, I remember, I'll speak on behalf of my mom, like a freedom in things being faster and easier and kids being able to do it and all that kind of stuff. But we did.

Speaker 3 Did you cook when you were a kid? No. Because you didn't start cooking until you were like 40, right? Right.
So what, what changed?

Speaker 2 So I, I really believed up, and kind of what I, what I was saying to you earlier, I really believed that I just was the kind of person that

Speaker 2 I was like, I just, I just don't think I'm the kind of person that cooks. And I would say myself to.

Speaker 3 You're not the kind of person who can cook or wants to cook.

Speaker 2 I think a little bit of both. I think it was like, I don't really know enough dishes, and

Speaker 2 maybe it's something I'm not interested in. But what motivates me sometimes, Aina, is watching really dumb people do things.

Speaker 3 Because I'm like, wait a minute, there's a lot of wait.

Speaker 2 Look at Aina interviewing me, by the way.

Speaker 3 I'm doing so much talking.

Speaker 2 Wait a minute, hold on.

Speaker 3 I got to pause. You are good.

Speaker 3 You're interviewing me.

Speaker 3 All right, I have one sip in my second go. One tip.

Speaker 2 One tip. And I'm like, you know what the thing is, Aina?

Speaker 2 The 70s, no.

Speaker 2 But you were a big part of me feeling like, wait a minute, I've seen.

Speaker 3 Was I that dumb person cooker?

Speaker 3 We have to back up here.

Speaker 2 No, I guess I mean that like I was motivated by, I watched people learn how to cook and I thought, hold on,

Speaker 2 I know how to learn new things. I I can learn new things.

Speaker 3 One of my favorite things that Jennifer Garner ever said was: she said, as you get older, you're not willing to try new things because you're afraid of failing. Of course.

Speaker 3 When you're a kid, you try everything and you fail, you get up, you do it again. But as we get older, we're not willing to do that.

Speaker 3 And I think it really got me to think about the things that I wasn't doing because I thought I wouldn't be able to do them well.

Speaker 2 That's a pattern in your life over and over again for you is you decide to kind of evaluate where you are and choose a joyful next path. Like it's, you've done that over and over again.

Speaker 2 So you grew up in Brooklyn. We, we got to bring Jeffrey in right away.

Speaker 3 I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 2 We just got to bring him in. I'd love to bring him in here right now.
I mean, Jeffrey and you meet first when you're 16 and then I was like 17 when he saw me.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 he was, I was 16 when he saw me and I met him when I was 17.

Speaker 2 And you were married at 20? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Wow.
Smartest thing I ever did. I know.
I have to say.

Speaker 3 Against everybody's advice. If your mother tells you not to marry somebody, listen to yourself, not your mother.

Speaker 2 And what did Jeffrey's parents think?

Speaker 3 Did he?

Speaker 3 They were just wonderful to me. They were.
They were wonderful, yeah. Jeffrey's grandmother, when he they met me one, I met them when at some family bar mitzvah or something, and Jeffrey's

Speaker 3 button fell off his coat. And I said, Oh, just give it to me.
I'll sew it back on again. And his grandmothers were taking their wedding rings and going, Marry her now before somebody else does.

Speaker 3 She knows how to sew a button. She knows how to sew a button on.

Speaker 2 I think what people,

Speaker 2 I know what people respond to about your relationship with Jeffrey. And it is that

Speaker 2 you kind of can't fake mutual respect. You just see it or you don't.

Speaker 2 And you two have a lot of respect for each other.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And we do, we keep it very simple.
We have a very different kind of life than. than we expected to.
I mean, we don't have kids, we don't have cats and dogs, we don't have gerbils.

Speaker 3 We're It's just the two of us. And if we're trying to figure out what to do, we figure out what he wants to do and what I want to do.

Speaker 3 And this is what Jeffrey taught me, is let's figure out how we can both do what we want to do. It's not about whether we get to do what you want to do or I want to do.

Speaker 3 And big things like careers and small things like what movie we go see.

Speaker 3 I just, I love that about him. He's so respectful.
And it's pretty hard not to, you know, to return that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's just in a long marriage, in a long relationship, it's like one one of the things you have to be vigilant about is just trying to stay respectful to with someone that you that you

Speaker 2 know so well because we just get very familiar with people and we forget that part where we have to be kind of tender with them and you're you both are very tender with each other.

Speaker 3 Just I don't take it for granted ever.

Speaker 2 What do people say to you about your relationship with Jeffrey? Because I bet people project a lot on it. I know the internet does.

Speaker 3 A lot of people say, oh, I have a Jeffrey too. And I think to myself, Nah.

Speaker 3 You're like, bring it to me

Speaker 3 in your dreams.

Speaker 3 And then you're like, stay away from mine, Jeffrey. Does anybody think women ever hit on your Jeffrey? No, I hope not.

Speaker 3 Oh, my God. I would kill those women.

Speaker 2 But yeah, people say, oh, I have a really, and what do you think they're saying when they say that?

Speaker 3 That I have somebody that I have a really good time with that I just adore and he adores me back, which is all you really want, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, but you know, that's what you want. And I relate to that too.
But I think sometimes people forget the fun part in relationships.

Speaker 3 That's so important.

Speaker 2 Why is it important?

Speaker 3 I mean, what's the first thing you look for in a friend or a spouse? They have a sense of humor. Because otherwise, I mean, there's such crazy stuff going on.

Speaker 3 If you don't have a sense of humor about it, you're just too serious. You're too serious to live with.

Speaker 3 I know.

Speaker 2 I know. It's very simple, but it's sometimes hard to learn.
And I do think that the other thing that people see in your relationship is a man

Speaker 2 who is very in love with his partner and

Speaker 2 you are choosing someone who loves you, I guess is the simplest way to say it. And that's, it seems so easy and simple, but it's not always what people do.

Speaker 3 I knew somebody who would fix people up with, you know, together. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And Jeffrey said to her, what do you look for in somebody that you're fixing up with a friend of yours? And she said, three things.

Speaker 3 are they a good person

Speaker 3 do they want to take care of you and that doesn't mean financially that means everything like do you want do they want to take care of you and the third one really shocked me because it was so simple does he want to be with you

Speaker 3 because so many people want a wife but they want to go play golf

Speaker 3 but that's the thing about jeffrey there's nothing i mean he just follows me around the house

Speaker 3 and every once in a while i turn around and go does he want to be with you

Speaker 3 yes Do you want to be in each other's company?

Speaker 3 Do you want to be together? Or are you just looking for that to fill in that blank?

Speaker 2 Yeah, that is so deep.

Speaker 3 It really is. It's so simple and yet it's so important.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I know that you, you know, you,

Speaker 2 I, anyone who's been married, how many years have you been married?

Speaker 3 57.

Speaker 2 So you have this.

Speaker 2 you know, ever-changing story, right? This song that keeps changing and growing. How have you grown? How have you both changed from when you were married at 20? Like, how are you different?

Speaker 3 Well, I think when we were married at 20, we each had like roles. You know, he was the husband, I was the wife.
I'd go, you know, we both had jobs and, you know, he would go to the State Department.

Speaker 3 I worked in the White House. And it was assumed that I would come home and make dinner until I found it just incredibly annoying.
I just didn't want to have the girl role and him have the boy role.

Speaker 3 And so we just threw the whole thing away and started all over again. So he just took the checkbook and he said, here are you doing it.

Speaker 3 It was one time he said to me, he said to me, Ain, what's he doing that bills? And he goes, Ain, what's this bill from Bloomingdale's?

Speaker 3 And I thought, I'm not about to justify to you what my bill from Bloomingdale's is. And he picks up the checkbook and he hands it to me.
He goes, okay, you do it. And I said, fine.
And that was that.

Speaker 3 So funny.

Speaker 2 I have such memories of my parents sitting at the kitchen table with their checkbooks. Doing it together.

Speaker 3 Doing it together.

Speaker 2 That's interesting. And it being a big deal about who was doing it.

Speaker 3 And you're right, especially a lot of women during that time just weren't even aware of their financial situation let alone knew how to do it exactly and and recently actually jeffrey said to me so how much do we spend on the garden and you're like you're like jeffrey don't ask questions like that doesn't matter we have strawberries we're fine i just went i don't think so they go okay i get it

Speaker 2 okay we cannot blow past the white house what you just said so casually i was at the white house he was at the state department like a like an episode of the americans or something but

Speaker 3 That was us. You didn't know that.
That's the untold story.

Speaker 2 Could argue that you and Jeffrey worked for the CIA.

Speaker 3 Well, I think a few people, you know, you don't know this about Jeffrey, but he was a paratrooper and a green beret. And then his first job was in the White House.

Speaker 3 And then he worked for the Secretary of State. So everybody I know thinks he's in the CIA.
And every once in a while, I go,

Speaker 3 Are you actually in the CIA?

Speaker 3 And he always says, you know, the wives are the last to know.

Speaker 3 That would be an amazing show. I would watch that where he reveals at age 90.
And I'm a Russian agent.

Speaker 2 But you worked in the White House and you were working during the Ford administration and the Carter administration, like during those four years.

Speaker 3 I started when Ford came in and then stayed on through Carter.

Speaker 2 And what were you doing there?

Speaker 3 I worked on nuclear energy policy.

Speaker 2 Nuclear energy policy policy.

Speaker 3 So it's the part of the federal budget that I worked at Office of Management and Budget, which writes the president's budget. And I oversaw the budget for nuclear power plants.

Speaker 3 And interesting that it's come up now, enriched uranium.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 It's very uranium is in the news. It's in the news.

Speaker 3 It's back in the news. Exactly.

Speaker 2 And how did you get that job? How did you get a job?

Speaker 3 I just, I think Jeffrey knew somebody in the White House who was looking for somebody, and I applied for the job and got it.

Speaker 2 And you talked about how it was pretty, it was tough for you.

Speaker 3 There was things moved slowly slowly oh my god every year we would take something out of the budget something big i mean in the at the time it was um there was one pro nuclear project that was 20 billion dollars which was a lot at that time in the 70s and it would go up to the hill and the congress person i think it was strom thurman was from the district that this plant was in and we were trying to get get rid of it or give it to private industry he would have no control over it so he would put it back in and then the next year i'd write the same papers to the president to take it out.

Speaker 3 And the next year, Thurman would put it back in again. And after four years of that, I was like, okay, I'm done.
I'm so done.

Speaker 3 I'm not writing this paper one more time. So

Speaker 2 you're writing budgets and you decide I need something where there's, I really need to do something that, like, where I can make something, do something, and I can see the results of it fast.

Speaker 2 And so, can you just tell me, how do you go from, I mean, I've read about it and I've watched you talk about it, but still, the leap from working in that very corporate job to running a store is such an interesting leap.

Speaker 2 What made you, what gave you

Speaker 2 the courage to make the leap? How do you make that career change?

Speaker 3 I knew I was done with working in the government. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I was, I,

Speaker 3 when I lived in Washington, I taught myself how to cook. I used to, just for fun, buy old houses, renovate them and sell them.
And,

Speaker 3 actually, I was going to business school at the same time. I don't know how I did any of that.
Wow.

Speaker 3 And I knew I was either going to go into real estate or the food business, and I just didn't know which one. And then this ad showed up in the New York Times.
And I came home that night.

Speaker 3 And Jeffrey, I said to Jeffrey, I really need to find something else to do. And he said, just pick something fun.
Pick something that you think you'd love doing.

Speaker 3 And if you love it, you'll be really good at it. And I was like, funny, you should mention it.

Speaker 3 I saw an ad for the business for sale in a place i'd never been it was a specialty food store and he said let's go look at it wow so i mean what an incredible guy he was it was in a place that he didn't live he was working for the secretary of state um it would basically blow up our lives and and he said just just go go go look at it This episode is brought to you by Zip Recruiter.

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You have now a business, employees, and you have to learn very quickly how to be a boss.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Right. And so what, you know, how would you describe yourself as a boss?

Speaker 3 I, I always wanted to be the boss that I wanted to have myself.

Speaker 3 And so I'm very collaborative.

Speaker 3 I think in the beginning I was probably too collaborative. Like, what do you think we should do here? What should we do there?

Speaker 3 And as I got better at it, somebody actually gave me a friend gave me the advice, your employees need two things from you. They need you to be clear and they need you to be happy.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 from then on, I would say, I need these candies bagged and I need them wrapped up like this. And if I was having a bad day, I would just disturb the energy in the room.

Speaker 3 And sometimes I had 50 or 100 employees and they'd all be like, what did I do wrong? But it had nothing to do with them.

Speaker 3 So I would just walk out of the store, I'd walk around the block, calm myself down and come back happy. And it was, I think that was the best lesson I ever had for business.

Speaker 2 Do you, how do you give feedback or criticism?

Speaker 3 I'm very clear about two things. If I'm criticizing you, I'll take you out of the room and discuss what you can do better.
If I'm complimenting you, I'll do it with everybody around.

Speaker 3 But I never compliment.

Speaker 3 Don't you?

Speaker 2 I think compliments with everyone around is a huge thing that people forget to do yeah I think they actually do the opposite quite a bit they criticize with everyone around

Speaker 2 and they compliment privately

Speaker 3 and if I have to fire somebody I'm always worried what are their what are their colleagues going to say and

Speaker 3 you know I usually give them a lot of warning explain what they have to do better and at the end of the day it doesn't work I fire them usually in a way that makes them say thank you and kiss me when they leave like this isn't the right job for you but that could be the right job for you and then I call everybody together and that works for me, and I say, I need to explain to you what happened, why this didn't work out with that person, because I'm so worried that their colleague's going to be mad that their friend is gone.

Speaker 3 And 100% of the time, they're like, oh, such a pain in the neck. We hated working with them.
I'm so glad you fired them. Right, right.
So it turns, it always, but you need that communication.

Speaker 2 And it's a kind of an on-the-job learned skill because to your point, I think

Speaker 2 we're, I'm going to make a huge generalization here, but sometimes a lot of women are good collaborators so we figure out like I think the best way to be in charge here is to make sure everybody's voices are heard and I'm constantly collaborating until you realize that people are looking for direction for direction and I start with the assumption everybody wants to do a good job I just have to give them the tools to do it

Speaker 3 I have to I have to tell you one story though the first probably a month in when I bought Bear for Contessa and there was

Speaker 3 I think there was a cook and three people working in the store. And one of them was just dreadful.
And they were all like 16 years old.

Speaker 3 But she was just, I mean, she had no vision. Like, if I tell her to, you know, clean the counter, if there were 20 customers waiting, she'd be cleaning the counter.
Right.

Speaker 3 Like, she was just very sweet, but not very good. So I took her out in the back and I explained that, you know, I'm sure there are other jobs that you're good at.
This isn't the one.

Speaker 3 And it was so gentle because I was so worried about hurting her feelings. Yeah.
That the next day she showed up for work again. She didn't know she was going to be a little bit more.

Speaker 3 She knew she tired.

Speaker 3 And the worst part is I couldn't do it again. So she stayed for the whole summer.

Speaker 3 I've gotten better than that.

Speaker 2 I could see that happening too.

Speaker 2 Me too, yeah. Where everyone's like, thank you for the feedback.
I'll see you tomorrow.

Speaker 3 And it's like, oh, no, what have I done?

Speaker 2 Barefoot Contessa, when you opened the store, what was the stuff that you were trying to sell there that spoke to people who were wanting real food?

Speaker 3 Well, you know, I had to learn it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I thought

Speaker 3 this is, it's an expensive store. It's very expensive to make specialty foods.
I'm in the Hamptons. I'd never been there before.
So I had an image of it being fancy.

Speaker 3 And so if I made, I mean, while we're talking about roast chicken, if I made roast chicken in the store, I'd take a huge white platter and I'd fill it with fresh herbs and then I'd put the roast chickens on it and then put them out.

Speaker 3 And nobody bought them.

Speaker 3 And I was like, okay, what am I doing wrong?

Speaker 3 I took the chicken back in the kitchen and I put all the chickens in little red and white paper cups like you would put French fries in and put them on the counter and they all sold.

Speaker 3 And I thought, oh, that's so interesting. People want really accessible food.
They don't want fancy food because they're eating it at home. It's different.

Speaker 3 When you go to a restaurant, you want something that's interesting that you've never had before or takes a long time.

Speaker 3 At home, you want simple food. You want roast chicken, roast carrots, and brownies.

Speaker 2 And what do you say?

Speaker 3 Really good ones, but

Speaker 2 they taste good when you make them. Then they're the really good ones.
But that is a thing that I think is just, it's like that thing that you capture with your cookbooks, your show,

Speaker 2 your podcast, this idea

Speaker 3 that...

Speaker 2 you know, you have everything you need. Like you've got it within you.
It's very like,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 3 Wizard of Oz or something, which is like you've you've it's been in you all along you just don't know it's there yeah you just have to unleash it yeah that's one of the things that i really wasn't prepared for when i started writing cookbooks is people sending me gifts they were kept sending me things i'm like why are they doing what what i mean people were like um making huge pots and and that they threw themselves and sending it why are people being so nice to me and i realized that it was i wasn't giving them something like a cookbook i was giving them the tools to make something something for themselves.

Speaker 3 And they would put it out and people would say, you made that chocolate cake yourself. And they felt good about themselves.
And that's, I think they wanted to thank me, which was so lovely.

Speaker 3 It was such a realization that it was,

Speaker 3 that it was, it just felt very generous. It was really nice.
Yeah. That we're giving people the tools to do something for themselves.

Speaker 2 People really attach to you, Ina.

Speaker 3 That's so sweet. It's really sweet.

Speaker 2 I mean, I think you remind them of someone in their family. I think they feel exactly what you've taught them something.
It's like teacher and mommy and,

Speaker 2 you know, Jedi Master and like relationship goals and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 How does it feel to get all that like love and attention from people?

Speaker 3 I mean, who wouldn't like it? I mean, it sounds great.

Speaker 3 When they start throwing things, we'll talk about it.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it sounds great.

Speaker 2 Dumbest question I've ever asked.

Speaker 3 Okay, I have a question for you. Okay, here we go.
What's your favorite New Yorker cartoon?

Speaker 2 Oh my God. I heard you love New Yorker cartoons.

Speaker 3 I love New Yorker cartoons. I don't remember any of them.
Really?

Speaker 2 Yes, but they're so good. Oh, no, I do remember one.

Speaker 3 I knew you would. Okay, thank you for asking.

Speaker 2 And for anyone under the age of 55, The New Yorker is a magazine.

Speaker 2 And you can read it in person and you flip through it like it's like a book, but skinnier and flatter.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 2 for those who forget, a book is a

Speaker 2 It is

Speaker 2 a piece of rigatoni

Speaker 2 on the phone

Speaker 2 calling somebody and saying, few silly, you crazy bastard, how are you?

Speaker 3 I love that you have a food one because all of mine are food. Mine, okay.

Speaker 3 My favorite one is a little pig sitting on the examining table in a doctor's office. And the doctor comes in with

Speaker 3 clipboard and he goes, I have very bad news. It's your ribs.
They're delicious.

Speaker 2 Do you ever enter those contests?

Speaker 3 Those contests? No, I wouldn't have a clue how it amazes me if people can write those things. Okay, me too.
No, and I mean, no, I write, no, I write jokes for

Speaker 2 a living, one could argue. And oftentimes I'll just be staring at the picture like stumped, like, why do I stay here? And it's so funny.
It's just like, I guess, hey, guys, what's going on?

Speaker 2 Like, it's.

Speaker 3 I actually just saw a cartoon. It wasn't the New Yorker, but I just saw a cartoon.
It was two dogs coming up to the front door, and there were two dogs answering the door. And

Speaker 3 one of the dogs, the ones arriving, said, you know, Cheryl said,

Speaker 3 life is short. We really have to smell the roses.

Speaker 3 And you saw that there was a a mailbox and it said rose. So the dogs inside were the roses.

Speaker 3 Life is short. We really have to smell the roses.

Speaker 3 And I just started laughing. I couldn't stop.
What do you like?

Speaker 3 What do you like about New York? The play on words. The play on words.

Speaker 2 The intelligence behind it.

Speaker 3 I just thought, what kind of a mind thought of that cartoon? Life is short. We really have to go smell the roses.
And they said, and here we are.

Speaker 2 Well, you know, I usually ask this question at the end, but I want to ask it now, which is, what do you, what makes you laugh?

Speaker 2 What are you reading, watching?

Speaker 2 I can tell that you like to laugh.

Speaker 3 What makes me laugh? I do. My friends.
I just, I don't tend to watch humorous movies or shows or things like that.

Speaker 3 I just, my, I love, my friends have a great sense of humor, and they just make me laugh all the time.

Speaker 2 Well, how important, you know, being in your 70s,

Speaker 2 what do female friendships mean to you? What do your friendships mean to you?

Speaker 3 It's everything. Yeah.
It's everything.

Speaker 3 I mean, Jeffrey's clearly my best friend, but

Speaker 3 women bring something totally different. And it's really connection.

Speaker 3 And actually, that's what I always thought that I was so pleased that I was in the food business because I could really work out the issues from my childhood. And it was just wonderful.

Speaker 3 But when I started doing Be My Guest, I realized what I was missing really is connection.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 that's been just extraordinary. I've made, well, your dear friend Tina made.

Speaker 3 That was so much fun.

Speaker 2 And you're friends with Julia Louis Dreyfus.

Speaker 3 Julia, exactly. Congratulations to Queen.
Is she the best?

Speaker 2 Well, not only is she the best, but she spoke to us before this podcast.

Speaker 3 Oh, she did. We got a question.
Oh, she was a special guest.

Speaker 2 We talked to Julia because

Speaker 3 she's so smart.

Speaker 2 And she said the same thing about you. She said, you're really smart.

Speaker 3 Yep. Thank you.

Speaker 2 Smarties all around and Tina. All smart people.
Smart, wonderful, talented women.

Speaker 3 Smart people who have a sense of humor have the best senses of humor.

Speaker 2 Well, Tina has said this, which is you can tell a lot about somebody by what they laugh at.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Although that doesn't say much about me because I laugh at everything.

Speaker 3 You just like to laugh. That's all.
That's good.

Speaker 2 But yeah, you're right. A sense of humor is a sign of intelligence.
And also, it's the way we just tell each other what we care about.

Speaker 2 So, Julia, we spoke to Julia. She says hello.

Speaker 2 She was wearing a giant sun hat and going through her refrigerator when we talked to her. And she had a question for you.

Speaker 2 She said, how are you so cheerful?

Speaker 2 And then she said, and what makes you,

Speaker 2 what puts you in a bad mood?

Speaker 3 Passive, aggressive people. who tell you what you want to hear and do exactly as they please makes me crazy.
And I can chew on them for years.

Speaker 2 I mean to say more about that. What do you mean? So like someone who places you?

Speaker 3 Yeah, well, we all know people that if you're doing something with someone, you want to

Speaker 3 be collaborative. Let's just all figure out what the issues are, what we need to do, and then together we'll make a decision.

Speaker 3 Unless I'm, you know, unless it's my business, but you know, just moving forward.

Speaker 3 And I don't like people that withhold information so that they control the situation because then I'm making a decision without the real information. And I just find passive aggressive makes me crazy.

Speaker 3 I mean, crazy. And you also asked

Speaker 3 how I keep my happiness, my joy. I think that it needs to be nurtured.
I think we're either

Speaker 3 born. with a positive or a negative energy.

Speaker 3 And I think about when I do yoga and my instructor says,

Speaker 3 what does she say?

Speaker 3 Find your inner smile. I think you either walk around with an inner smile or you don't.
And if you don't, I think you need to just nurture it.

Speaker 3 And I feel like I was just born this way. My parents used to say, I came out like playing with my toes and giggling.
And

Speaker 3 I think it's an important thing to do. I think it makes life easier.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 I think it's really important. And yes, we've had extraordinary lives, but we've also had difficult times.
You have it? And you talk a lot about it in your memoir. We've all difficult times.

Speaker 3 We've had difficult times and

Speaker 3 how you deal with it is it's up to you.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 if I may, you spoke about your late-in-life,

Speaker 2 what would you say, reconciliation with your dad? Like, how did that happen?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 Do you want to talk a little bit about that?

Speaker 3 You know, my dad was not a great dad. He was really tough and critical.
But later on, he just, we were together at a, they were giving a party for me for my second book. So it was 2000.

Speaker 3 And he was sitting with me and he said to me one sentence that made all the difference in the world. He looked at me and he said, I don't know what I was thinking.

Speaker 3 And it makes me cry just now. And that changed our whole relationship because he felt badly about it.
And he basically said, I'm sorry in that sentence. And then we went on.
But my dad, I have to say,

Speaker 3 He was a tough dad, but he also gave me something when I was a child that was really important. He loved to talk through.
He was a doctor, but he loved to buy real estate.

Speaker 3 So he would always talk through real estate deals. And he'd say, come in my study and talk through this deal with me.
And so he taught me how to, you know, borrow money, go to the bank, borrow money.

Speaker 3 I credit him with

Speaker 3 a lot of things that I've done that don't scare me because I'm used to talking about it that way.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 2 and also such an example of like you have to be open to the idea of

Speaker 2 forgiveness or the idea of letting things go, basically. Like it shows up in all different ways.

Speaker 2 It shows up in the way you are in a relationship with your husband, which is like we just kind of don't sweat the small stuff.

Speaker 2 So you just have to kind of like, you know, like love, love each other through hard times.

Speaker 2 It's, it shows up in the way that you cook, which is when there's like a mistake or an accident or like an oopsie, it's like funny. It's fun.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 It's not the end of the world. Let it go.
It's not the end of the world. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And, but, but then it becomes, of course, much deeper when it has to do with your family of origin and deciding like how much much you're going to hold on to and it doesn't mean you always forget i mean every once in a while i have lunch with them and i go can't believe i'm having lunch with this monster but he wasn't them he really had come around and you know but it's it's you have to push that away that's that was then this is now and you know there's all we we fetishize um uh we well we fetishize marriage especially you know um

Speaker 2 you know cis straight marriage.

Speaker 2 But we also fetishize children and people who have them. And you don't have children.
What is the best thing about not having children?

Speaker 3 Not be responsible for them.

Speaker 3 Not having teenagers.

Speaker 2 You don't want somebody who says, I hate you, and no,

Speaker 3 not so much. Crashes the car.
Are you trying to lease yours out?

Speaker 3 Well, I mean, I don't think people, you know, there's all these studies.

Speaker 2 Married people without children are the happiest people. Like, like, there's all these studies and everyone keeps going, well, they just haven't met my children yet, you know?

Speaker 3 I mean, it's amazing to me that I made that decision so young and that thank God Jeffrey was okay with it.

Speaker 3 But I just can't imagine my life any other way. I've done it, done what I wanted to do.

Speaker 3 I've had

Speaker 3 just a wonderful time.

Speaker 2 You made very countercultural decisions for a woman of your generation. You really did.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 maybe I'm just projecting, but I feel like

Speaker 2 when you were working and doing all these these choice, making all these choices and making these big leaps and big swings,

Speaker 2 you didn't have as many women doing the same thing at the same time. I didn't really have any.

Speaker 3 I really didn't have any. I can't think of anybody that I knew at the time

Speaker 3 who made the same choices. I really can't.

Speaker 2 And right now, as a woman running an empire.

Speaker 3 That's not an empire.

Speaker 3 It's an empire.

Speaker 3 I'll start calling it a lot. I want to call more women geniuses, and I want to call more

Speaker 2 female business owners.

Speaker 2 I want to call more female-run businesses empires. Empires are not just for men.

Speaker 3 Well, I just, I think of an empire as having a thousand employees. I have two.

Speaker 3 You only have two employees.

Speaker 3 Actually, and a part-time office manager.

Speaker 2 I want to talk to you about this. This is incredible because you've scaled down.

Speaker 3 I just, I want to walk across the lawn to the barn where I have people that I love and I want to cook all day.

Speaker 3 Did Tina ever tell you how she interviewed me at the Brooklyn Academy of Music? No, tell me about that. So she started and she said, you know, my friends think you have this perfect life.

Speaker 3 You get up in the morning, you walk across the lawn, you cook all day, your friends come by to visit you, you go out for dinner, your husband leaves on Monday, he comes back on Friday.

Speaker 3 And then she said, and I told... told my husband, I told my husband I was going to say this.
And he said, you know, I'm going to be in the audience when you say that, right?

Speaker 2 and she was kind of right that's really what my life is like it's just been great so are you looking to like you were hustling so much in the you know

Speaker 2 you work really hard writing the memoir made me realize I worked really hard what did you learn from your memoir that you didn't know about yourself well I my relationship to work like I like I think about it all the time I'm always like troubling it because I get such esteem from work like I get a ton of self-esteem from work and I don't want to give that up.

Speaker 2 I also get a lot of self-esteem from parenting and being and being a parent to my kids. And like you, I feel like I desperately need connection with people and my friends.
So all of those things.

Speaker 2 And a lot of connection comes from work.

Speaker 2 But I don't know about you, but as I look ahead, it's just an interesting, like, what is our relationship to work to what is enough to,

Speaker 2 you know, what do we want to, how do we want to shape the. the third act of our life and you are a life shaper you you so what do you see the last I don't think that far ahead.

Speaker 3 I don't. I just think, what do I want to do? If, if I know what I want to do today,

Speaker 3 and by the end of the day, I'm going to decide what I'm going to do tomorrow. It's all I need to know.
It's kind of like my first book. I thought, oh my God, how am I going to write a book?

Speaker 3 A whole book. And I thought, okay, I don't need to know how to write a whole book.
All I need to know is what recipe I'm going to test today. And then tomorrow I'll test another recipe.

Speaker 3 And somewhere along the line, at the end of the line, I'm going to have a book. But I don't give myself overwhelming projects.
I give myself manageable bites.

Speaker 2 Yes, I relate to that.

Speaker 2 It's just taking, I like to call it like, you know, like this season, you know, when you think about it in terms of seasons, because the idea of like the next year is going to be fill in the blank, that's overwhelming.

Speaker 3 It's overwhelming.

Speaker 2 Winter season, we're going to work on this.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. And you know what? There's this great expression, and I'm embarrassed to say, I can't remember the name of who said it.
I have a laptop. I can look it up.
J.P.

Speaker 3 Morgan, I think it was JP Morgan. Is

Speaker 3 go as far as you can see.

Speaker 3 And when you get there, you'll be able to see farther.

Speaker 3 But if you, if you map it from here to there, you're going to limit yourself.

Speaker 3 You need, you map it as far as you can see. And then when you get there, there may be other options you wouldn't have even thought of when you get there.

Speaker 3 So just leave, I just like to leave myself open to what things come along that's like, nope, not interested. Nope.
lose my number. Wait a minute, wait a minute.
That's kind of interesting, actually.

Speaker 3 Come back here. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, I think that's success. Success is being able to decide.

Speaker 3 It's not fun of it to work. It's a surprise.
I mean, you don't want to do the same thing over and over again. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And when you were writing your memoir, how did you, how do you like to write?

Speaker 3 Never?

Speaker 3 No kidding. Isn't writing the worst?

Speaker 3 The worst.

Speaker 3 People are always like, what are you doing?

Speaker 2 I'm like, anything but writing. I'm organizing my closets.

Speaker 2 I'm making amends to all my friends, whatever it takes to not write. Okay, so fast round, Aina.
Are you ready? Okay. Okay.
Okay, here we go. Best way to cook carrots.

Speaker 3 Roasted with olive oil, salt, and pepper.

Speaker 2 And do you enjoy a feta on there?

Speaker 3 Sometimes I put a tethethethy. I put a feta on anything.

Speaker 2 Sometimes I put feta and honey on my carrots.

Speaker 3 It's fabulous. Probably.
Or balsamic vinegar, syrupy balsamic vinegar. So good because the sweet carrots and the vinegar are good.
I like things that have an edge. Yeah.
And vinegars do.

Speaker 2 I love a vinegar. Me too.
Oh, Julia wanted me to ask you this. How do you make, she's been making some sorbet.
And she, it was very fancy. She's speaking of fancy.

Speaker 2 She had, she had made sorbet and then she scooped out a lemon and put it back in the lemon. It was so cute.

Speaker 2 But she found her sorbet wasn't as creamy.

Speaker 2 It was icy more than creamy. Any tips?

Speaker 2 She said she made it with sugar, water.

Speaker 3 Did she make it in an ice cream maker? Great question. Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 Some recipes have you just freeze it and like a almost like a granita. Yeah.
And that's

Speaker 3 that would be grainy. Yes.
But if you make it in an ice cream,

Speaker 3 I'm not an expert on.

Speaker 2 I know.

Speaker 2 I don't really love desserts,

Speaker 2 making them. It's like a whole other world.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 Favorite New Yorker cartoon. We got that.

Speaker 3 Was that on your list? Yes, it was on my list because I heard you love New Yorker cartoons, but you brought it up.

Speaker 3 Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 Can I tell you my other favorite one? Yes, please. Dog sitting at the bar, and the bartender walks over and he said, what can I get you? He said, I'll take a scotch and toilet water.

Speaker 2 Do you cook on Thanksgiving?

Speaker 3 Yes, I love Thanksgiving. Me too.
It's just, it's like the best holiday. Yeah.
Because it's traditional things. You can make them better.

Speaker 3 And yeah,

Speaker 2 what's your new, like, what's something you make on Thanksgiving that people would be surprised is at your table? Like, is there like, you know,

Speaker 2 like, huh? That on Thanksgiving?

Speaker 3 Well, you know, a couple of years ago, the New York Times asked me to do a store-bought Thanksgiving. And I thought, who could ever do that? So I said, I don't think so.

Speaker 3 And then I started thinking about it. And I realized that if you could take a store-bought ingredient from the store and make it easier wouldn't wouldn't that be fabulous

Speaker 3 so I went and got pepperage farm stuffing mix and I made a bread pudding out of it which was so good it was crazy

Speaker 3 so I have a lot of Thanksgiving things now like to get um like you can get you can actually get good mashed potatoes but then I add sour cream and parmesan cheese and garlic and it's just delicious and you have no idea that there's a store-bought ingredient in there.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 Young chefs or food writers that you're into.

Speaker 3 I mean, I have a few people like Erin French from Lost Kitchen. I love her.

Speaker 3 So, you know, like the other day, she sent out a recipe. I'm like, oh, I'm making that.
Yeah. But I don't, I don't really.

Speaker 3 What did you send out that you wanted to? Something that was great. Now I get myself.

Speaker 2 Do you ever watch TikTok or Instagram reels or any of the young people that are cooking on there?

Speaker 3 TikTok, no. Instagram I love.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I just think, you know, if you're interested in gardens, you know, you see a lot of stuff on gardens You have to be careful about not watching cute puppy things because that's all you ever get

Speaker 2 Do you ever see all those like this like version of the macho guy who's like in the woods and cuts the meat and puts it on the grill?

Speaker 3 What are you watching?

Speaker 2 Come on over to my FYP Ina

Speaker 3 Your profile is different from mine

Speaker 2 don't all have a Jeffree Ina we don't all have a Jeffrey

Speaker 2 Secret ingredient that makes things better.

Speaker 3 Oh, it's always something with an edge, like balsamic vinegar or Parmesan cheese or Dijon mustard.

Speaker 3 Things that

Speaker 3 a splash of red wine and a big pot of lentils,

Speaker 3 it just changes everything. Yes.
Anything. Lemon zest.
Lemon zest. Yeah.

Speaker 2 When you, that's the other thing is it's really, I learned when I started cooking later two things. One is, you know, sometimes my anxiety needed to go somewhere.

Speaker 2 You know, sometimes it just needs to land. Like in your day, right? You have to, you're making a list of what you have to do for your kids or do for your work or whatever.

Speaker 2 And I found like thinking about what I was going to make was a really nice way to put my anxiety

Speaker 3 to sleep for a while. Yeah.
Because you know what it is? The thing about Jeffrey always says about me, cooking is hard.

Speaker 3 And if it weren't hard, I wouldn't be interested in it. It's the challenge.
Yes. And if you're doing something that's really hard, you just put everything else out of your mind.

Speaker 3 And I think that's one of the things I love about cooking. I mean, when I start, when I invite people over, I'm like, oh, this is going to be so much fun.

Speaker 3 And they're like, and then I'm like, why did I invite you?

Speaker 3 Oh my God.

Speaker 2 Everybody relates to that. Everybody relates to that.
Like very relaxed, oh shit.

Speaker 3 Feeling.

Speaker 2 And I just want to say, you brought up a lemon zest. And I will say that for people who are learning how to cook, I would say reward yourself with a tool.

Speaker 2 a zester because when i got a zester i was like

Speaker 3 look at me yeah look at me with a zest

Speaker 2 i was like and and i would just take it out and you're just like look at this

Speaker 2 because you know sometimes we need a little treat at the end of our learning

Speaker 2 and get yourself a zester um and don't keep it forever Oh, really?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 You can't sharpen it like a knife. Oh, right.
It gets charged. After a couple of years, get a new one.

Speaker 2 Throw it right in the ocean.

Speaker 2 anything you refuse to cook

Speaker 3 like anything you're like no it's so funny we were just talking about this the other day really i was with a friend and and we were talking about what our mothers used to make it was like monday was one thing tuesday was something else tongue

Speaker 3 that's a tough one tongue was on her list and liver and onions was on her list

Speaker 3 never enough never need to cook either one of them no but also things that are really complicated like you know i don't know this

Speaker 3 I mean, you know, like Buyabez, a really good Buibes takes forever.

Speaker 2 I don't know what a Bouillabais actually is.

Speaker 3 It's a fish stew. Okay.

Speaker 2 So which I heard Jeffrey doesn't like.

Speaker 3 No, no, no.

Speaker 3 I made a fish stew. It was the only thing I ever made that he didn't like.
It was terrible.

Speaker 2 But that's not considered a bouillabase?

Speaker 3 It wasn't a boubebez. A good boybez literally cooks for days.
Got it, yeah. You know, and it's got all the bones and the heads and the stock and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 I mean, the idea of like making your own stock stock to me is,

Speaker 2 I mean, that's just like a level of, there's just certain levels where you think like, maybe someday I'll do that.

Speaker 3 You're going to come visit me. Oh, yeah.
And we're going to make chicken stock. And you won't believe how easy it is.
And what an incredible difference it makes.

Speaker 3 You take a big pot and you put like 10 things in it and you. cook it for four hours.

Speaker 2 I love something that you can cook forever and then forget it.

Speaker 3 Forget it about that. Just being set a timer.
I leave the house. I come back.
It's fine.

Speaker 2 That was the thing about why everyone got into sourdough during the COVID. It's because everyone was like, it takes three days.

Speaker 3 And everyone was like, I need something. That's exactly what I don't want.

Speaker 2 Do bay leaves do anything or is this some kind of conspiracy?

Speaker 3 It's so funny. David Remnick, that the New Yorker and I had a long conversation about this.
Beats me.

Speaker 2 If you're not ready to.

Speaker 3 My guess is that fresh bay leaves can make a difference. There's like an undertone that you can taste.
Bay leaves that have been in your spice drawer for 40 years. I don't think so.

Speaker 2 And also fresh bay leaves, like that's

Speaker 2 one needs to plan ahead for weeks to this. Like when you see a thing that says fresh bay leaves, it's like, I'm out.
I mean, actually, it's true.

Speaker 2 Like sometimes in recipes, you'll be chugging along and then you see something and you're like, you know what? I'm out.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I just can't do it.

Speaker 2 I just couldn't get fresh bay leaves.

Speaker 3 That's why when I'm writing a recipe, I always say to myself,

Speaker 3 when I'm doing a book, is somebody going to look at the photograph and go, that looks delicious?

Speaker 3 Look at the recipe and go, I actually can find all those ingredients in the grocery store and it's simple enough for me to make.

Speaker 3 And that was like from my first book to the one I'm working on now. It has to be all those things.
It has to be.

Speaker 3 If you see, you know, like you see an ingredient you've never heard of before, is that like an alcohol or is that like a spice? I have no idea. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 And then you also have that ingredient in your, in your cupboard for years to come and it mocks you.

Speaker 3 You're like, why did I buy Zatar?

Speaker 2 I'm never going to use it.

Speaker 3 That's exactly the spice I was thinking of.

Speaker 2 Come see our Zatar comedy. Yeah, I was like, oh, I'm never going to use this again.
And I see it every time I open the thing. Okay.
And then the last question is,

Speaker 2 and apologies for my language, but

Speaker 2 have you heard, did you watch The White Lotus?

Speaker 3 I not all. Okay.

Speaker 2 Well, there's this term that's happening right now, like where she has a cunty bob.

Speaker 3 And you, sorry, Aina.

Speaker 2 Sorry, Aina.

Speaker 3 I apologize.

Speaker 2 But you've had a bob for a very long time. You have great hair.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 2 And you have a very sharp,

Speaker 2 it's gone different lengths, of course, in life. A little bit.
What do you enjoy about having a Bob? And are you aware that you're very on trend?

Speaker 3 Very on trend? On trend. I am? Oh, no.
I have no idea. Everyone's getting a bob.
Do you know when I first got that haircut? I was 25 years old. I lived in Washington.

Speaker 3 I had hair all the way down my back. And I had heard a friend of mine went to a salon at the Watergate.

Speaker 3 And it was run by a man, Sylvan Malul, who had had just come to the United States. And she had a Bob.
And I went right to him and I had him cut my hair like that. And you know, I've never changed it.

Speaker 3 It's been the same haircut since I was 25. I've tried a few, every once in a while I'd try something else.
I'm going to go, no, I'm going right back to where I started.

Speaker 2 It's a perfect bob. But now, I mean, everyone is going for it.

Speaker 3 It's so funny.

Speaker 2 Every Gen Zer is cutting their hair. And also,

Speaker 2 you know, it's like feeling very brave while they do it.

Speaker 3 Well, you have a Bob, right?

Speaker 2 I mean, I kind of am at the point where my hair just kind of cuts itself.

Speaker 3 Like, it just doesn't really

Speaker 3 grow at all. Oh, that's really interesting.
You know, the French always say that if your hair is short, it shows your ensemble better. That if your hair is long, it's not the right profile.

Speaker 2 How much time do you spend in France?

Speaker 3 As much as possible. Yes.

Speaker 2 And do you speak French?

Speaker 3 Badly.

Speaker 3 Enough to

Speaker 3 deal with a greengrocer. Oh, you do.
Okay.

Speaker 2 And they'll speak it back to you. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And did you take lessons?

Speaker 3 No. Just from being there.
From high school. From high school French.
Yeah. Yeah.
Do you,

Speaker 3 I dream that someday I'm going to live there and full-time and go to Berlitz, but it hasn't happened yet.

Speaker 2 Well, you never know. You never know.
Because I know the one thing I've learned is like, there's just... The sky's the limit.

Speaker 2 I mean, and I feel like that is really like the theme of a lot of what we talked talked about today is just that there is

Speaker 2 there

Speaker 2 There's no reason why there's no

Speaker 2 there's no timeline as to when things are supposed to happen in your life You get married really early you start your business later You're writing a memoir at this age There's like there's all these different ways in which you're just deciding what you want to do next and like you're the architect of your own life basically yeah yeah and do it now don't wait yeah i think a lot of people say well you know first i'm gonna do this and then i'm gonna do what i really want to do do what you really want to do now ina thank you so much for the presents for the strawberries for the prosecco for the fake chicken i feel like lousy with gifts someday i'll make you a real chicken i can't wait

Speaker 3 thank you so much for coming it really meant so much it was really fun thank you

Speaker 2 Thank you so much, Aina. That was so great.
What a great conversation. And I loved talking to you.
And, you know, I hope that this episode gets you hungry.

Speaker 2 I know it did me and it made me think about all the stuff I want to go home and cook. And so for this polar plunge, I just wanted to share something that I like to cook.

Speaker 2 My recipe, kind of a go-to recipe that I do a lot, which is just a very kind of simple chicken curry. I get chicken breasts with bone-in chicken breasts,

Speaker 2 and I

Speaker 2 put it in

Speaker 2 a pot with some rice, chicken stock, bunch of curry, coconut milk. Sometimes I'll throw in some chickpeas, throw in some parsley, make it look green, put it in the oven,

Speaker 2 slow cook it, and that

Speaker 2 shit's amazing. Okay, you look like a million dollars.
You can, you know, you want to brown the chicken first, right? You want to brown it in a pan first. Then you put it in with the uncooked rice.

Speaker 2 You put whatever it is, two cups of rice, so whatever it is, three cups of chicken stock, put some coconut milk in, put it in tons of curry, put in the oven,

Speaker 2 375 for like an hour. Keep checking it, stirring the rice if you need to.
You take it out, you put it on the table. People think you're a genius.

Speaker 2 You can serve it from the pot. You can serve the rice, take the chicken, and Bob's your uncle.
So that's my chicken curry.

Speaker 2 You can tell how I don't have a cooking show because I'm not great at explaining it, but you get it. You get it.
You can do it. I believe in you.

Speaker 2 All right. Thanks, everyone, for listening.

Speaker 3 Bye.

Speaker 2 You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and me, Amy Poehler.
The show is produced by The Ringer and Paperkite.

Speaker 2 For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaya McMullen, and Aalaya Zanaires. For Paperkite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell, and Jenna Weiss Berman.
Original music by Amy Miles.

Speaker 2 This episode is brought to you by L'Oreal Paris. Younger-looking skin seems to take a million products these days.
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