Episode 190: DeVon Franklin – Producer, Author, Motivational Speaker, and CEO of Franklin Entertainment

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins.

You're listening to Habits and Hustle, Gresham.

Today on Habits and Hustle, we have Devon Franklin.

This guy does it all.

He is a producer, he is an author, and is a motivational speaker.

And lately, he's actually been a relationship expert.

Yes, he is a man of many, many talents.

He is best known for the films Miracle from Heaven and Heaven is for Real.

He is also a New York Times best-selling author of the book The Wait.

We spoke about everything,

his beginnings in Hollywood, how he navigated the system, and how he's had like an evolution in his career.

He is a really nice guy.

And I really enjoyed this conversation.

And I'm sure you will too.

Enjoy.

I have Devon Franklin here with me.

And

we actually did a podcast.

This is now like, this is, we already did an hour pre-recording, and now we're going to start again.

And I like basically like killed him on a, on the hit axle.

So I apologize.

No, it was great.

I love it.

I mean, I'm, I've got to get one.

I'm telling you, you look all pumped up.

Because I am.

Well, it worked.

And by, and I'm not getting paid by them.

I'm just saying it's hit axle is like a like a cardio slash strength machine that I'm just telling people if they're not, you know, aware of what it, what it is.

It's like nothing anyone's ever tried.

I've, I mean, and i've tried a lot of equipment a lot of things this is on another level i know i'm telling i know that's why i even showed it to you so that's why i knew you'd like it i knew you'd like it i can't wait um okay so i don't i was also saying before we started like i don't even know what to like describe you as you're a new york times bestseller best-selling author you're a producer you're some you're a spiritual

what would you call it influencer or

i don't know what the word is to you

know you know you you're like you're like a jack of all trades Yes.

Do you have like any, like, what is the one thing that you're kind of, in your opinion, that you kind of like lean really into right now?

Is that more of the

writing?

Is it more the speaking?

Like, what's your thing right now?

You know, that's a great question.

And I don't have a good answer.

Oh, okay.

Well, thank you.

Because, you know, it hasn't been focusing on one.

You know, for me, it's really about

trying to utilize all the gifts that I have, you know, in a positive way.

And so, within a day, you know, sometimes I'm wearing the speaker hat, sometimes I'm wearing the producer hat, sometimes I'm wearing the talent hat.

It just depends on what's going on.

So, I try not to choose one as a focus.

I try to say, okay, where am I the most useful?

Where am I supposed to be?

Oh, I need to produce this movie.

Oh, I need to produce this show.

Oh, I need to go here to speak.

I need to do this.

So, I just try to, you know, stay organic about it and really just allow

my feeling of like, oh, this is is what I'm supposed to do right now.

Because what I've tried to in the past, like pick a lane, so to speak,

for me, it just doesn't work.

You know what's so interesting about that?

Well, because most people can't even figure out one thing to do.

They don't know what one of their passions are.

Right.

And I feel that you were, you were fortunate enough to have all these things that you are obviously good at and that you like to do.

And then also having these an opportunity to kind of do them all.

So I guess the first thing I should ask you is like, how did it all, what was like your evolution, like your origin story?

Where did you start?

And like, let's go from there and how you kind of evolved into being this like jack of all trades and also successful in all of them, right?

Oh, also, I should say, he's also known as a dating expert, which is another thing I forgot to put in his bio, which when I like Googled you, that was all that came up.

Oh my gosh.

Oh my goodness, Lord have mercy.

Yeah.

Well, you know, I mean, going back, you know, I'm from Oakland, California, right?

From Northern California.

I'm the middle child of three boys.

And my mother, you know, raised us after my father passed away when I was nine years old.

He died of a heart attack when he was only 36 years old.

Yeah.

So that's 36.

36.

Yeah.

So that's one of the reasons why I'm very committed to fitness and, you know, trying to eat right so that, you know, whatever is in my genetics, I don't allow a bad diet or, oh, you know, not working out to, you know, get the best of me.

So wait a second.

So how was was he was he very unhealthy?

He was alcoholic pretty much, you know, his, most of his adult life,

which is not the reason why you have a heart attack at 36.

There were some other issues going on.

He smoked and all that, but I think there were some hereditary things, you know, going on with his heart that he never really spoke about.

Right.

Wow.

That's very young.

Yeah.

And by the time he was 36, he had had, I think,

the fatal heart attack was his third one.

Yeah.

Well, how old was he when he had his first heart attack?

I want to say he may have been, he was in his early 30s, you know, like, I think around 31, 32, around there.

Do you have any idea of the history before, like his father, his father, mother, or?

Not about their heart, only about that, you know, his parents were alcoholics as well.

So did you ever, is there a way to check to see if what kind of, well, when you see a cardiologist now, what did they say to you?

Do you have?

They say everything looks good.

You know, I mean, I just got recently, you know, we did the whole EKG.

We did the scan.

I went through the tube, got everything checked out.

There was no blockages, nothing.

You know, wore a heart monitor for three days.

Everything looked good.

So,

you know, but you got to be on top of that.

Got to be on top of it.

Wow.

Yes.

Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

No, no, no.

That's crazy, bro.

Yes, very, very young.

And so for me, growing up, that was always something that was top of mind.

But coming out of that, you know, losing my father at nine years old, the two things that really made an impact were going to church and watching movies and TV shows.

It was like entertainment and church became my therapy in terms of, you know, how to really navigate what I was dealing with.

And so as I got older, you know, I started to have a passion for Hollywood.

And at the same time, you know, I was involved heavily in the ministry that I grew up in.

And so I was telling everybody, you know, I'm going to go to Hollywood and make movies.

And people were like, you know, you're, you can't do that, you know, you're from the church and Hollywood is, you know, against the church and you can't be a person of faith and hold on to your faith.

And I said, well, you know, I don't, I don't believe that.

You know, I'm going to go and see what's meant for me.

And so I went to USC, majored in business, minored in film, and I got rejected from the USC Film School as a major, an undergrad major.

Oh.

So that's what led me to take on a business major.

And as a result, I had a little more time on my hands.

So that freshman year, I got an internship working for the company that managed Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith and P.

Diddy.

Is that the Overbrook?

His company's called, well, the company was called Overbrook, but before it was Overbrook, it was a company called Handprint Entertainment.

And Benny Medina and James Lasseter and peter golden and jeff pollack were all the principals of uh of that company so i started as an intern you know when i when i was 18 years old uh and that was basically just learning the business and and then as i got my feet wet i really started working a lot with benny medina when i was in the office i was like the third assistant and you know just got a chance to learn entertainment like front row and center and that i was like this is it this is what i'm supposed to do you know i was so passionate about it and then overbrook started uh my junior and senior year and i went and and became their first intern.

And then when I graduated, I became an assistant working for James Lasseter, who at the time was Will Smith's producing partner and manager.

And so that was kind of like my start in the business.

And then I left.

It's a good start.

It's a great start.

You know, to have those legends, you know, in my foundation from a professional standpoint is just amazing.

And, you know, just the mentorship and the help and guidance that Will has given me over, you know, the 25 years that I've known him is just, it's just unbelievable.

Wow.

So wait, so you start, so so basically so people don't people don't know like getting these jobs by the way like as an assistant to these in these you know these talent agencies or management companies it's like a coveted job yeah like they're hard to get yeah some they pay you like terrible money but like you kind of you kind of practice and gain your whatever they say your chops or whatever and that's how you get your opportunities so did you do you have a business degree from usc then i do i have a business degree with an emphasis in entrepreneurship and a minor in film that's amazing so but for me it wasn't just about getting the intellectual, it was about getting the practical.

Of course.

So that's why my whole four years, I, you know, combined the internship, the practical, with the, you know, the educational experience.

So I had the, so I had the intellectual.

You know, my goal was to have both because a lot of people may get the intellectual, but if you don't have the practical, you're not going, it's not going to work.

Right.

So for me, yeah, you know, learning the business and starting to, you know, meet the right people and understand how it all works.

I was incredibly fortunate to be able to do that starting at 18.

And so the foundation, you know, of my career has always rested on that internship and then being the assistant for two years.

And that a lot of people look at Hollywood and think, oh, it's glamorous.

It wasn't glamorous at all.

I know.

Talk about what you did.

I want people to understand what you did as an assistant because I think this is, these are fascinating.

I was that also for like five minutes.

I didn't last very long, but I was at three arts and it was

like literally two minutes.

Oh my goodness.

Yes.

Like the rolling of the calls and all that kind of thing.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, that's right.

The assistant is, you know, rolling, rolling the calls, doing the schedule,

you know, filing, running errands when need be.

Yeah.

You know, facilitating travel arrangements for, you know, for my boss, anything that my boss needed.

If there was something going on at the house, you know, I have to make sure that that was being taken care of.

If there was family coming in and they needed help, that was, you know, my job.

Reading scripts, making sure that he had what he needed on a day-to-day basis.

Here's your to-do list.

Did you have Jennifer Lopez at that point, Ben?

Well, so when I started interning for

Benny in my freshman and sophomore year, right when I was leaving to go to Overbrook, he took on Jennifer.

Oh, because at that time, Puffy and Jennifer were dating.

Right.

And so that's how, you know, from my recollection, that's how Jennifer got into Benny's life and Benny got into Jennifer's life.

And then they've been together, you know, pretty much ever since.

Right.

And so they broke up, I think, for like a little bit.

For a minute, you know, but you know how that goes.

Of course.

And then they're back together.

Very incredible.

Who was his big one?

Was it Mariah?

No, No, he didn't have Mariah Carey.

No, his big one was Babyface.

Babyface was his big one?

Benny Medina.

Yes, yes.

Before Puffy and before J-Lo, he had Babyface when Babyface did the Day album.

And that album got like 13 Grammy nominations.

I remember.

I had the song every time I closed my eyes.

It was just huge.

It was massive.

And that was Benny.

Yeah, that was Benny Medina.

Okay, I thought there was a girl that he had also.

He had Michelle and DeGiocello before

he had Babyface.

But Babyface was really...

And there was a season, like, you know, around,

what's the Mariah song?

Oh, man.

If you think you're lonely now, it'll come back to me.

Are you a singer also?

No, I can't say.

You can't say.

I can't say that.

We belong together.

Oh, we belong together.

So

around that album, Benny managed her.

But that was, you know, just for a season.

For a small period.

Just for a small period.

So when the time when I was there, it was Michelle and Deocello, Babyface,

Will on some level.

He helped out with Will.

He did

P.

Diddy and then Jennifer Lopez.

And then there were a bunch of other talent at the time.

Just okay, so does he still have, is it just J-Lo now?

You can't have time for anybody else.

I think it's only, yeah.

Right?

Because, like, how are you going to be able to split your time between J-Lo and you know, whoever?

So then, what happened to Babyface?

Did he just like leave or what happened to him?

Um, you know what?

At the time, uh, you know, I can't.

I'm curious.

I can't remember exactly what happened.

You know, know, it's like,

you know, I mean, he's, look, Babyface is still around, and he and LMA just did a new song that's the number one added song on RB Radio.

It is?

Oh, yeah.

So Babyface is still alive and doing his thing.

Alive and human.

Yeah, I mean, Babyface is one of the biggest songwriters in the world.

In the world, I know.

I was just curious what happened to that relationship between Babyface and I want, like, I want the, like, what do you call it, the T or the A.

Oh, that I, that I don't know.

I don't know.

Okay, fine.

So you don't know that.

We'll have to, you know, get Benny on the hub.

Yeah, I was going to say,

exactly.

I have to, like, I got to make a note of that.

Thank you.

Yeah, he would be a great interview, by the way.

I would love him.

I would love to.

If he would do it, he would be incredible.

I think he would be.

So if anyone, well, maybe you can hook me up to him.

Like Benny.

Yeah.

If you still talk, you still talk to him?

We text occasionally, and

I saw him a couple times last year.

And then I saw him like briefly earlier this year.

Okay.

And listen, he is just, I mean, to be able to learn from a legend like that who knows his business inside and out, you know, I can't tell you, you know, know how great it was because when i was an assistant i was driving him around yeah you know i would drive him to meetings drive him to the studio drive him to award shows were you able to listen were you able to go into the meeting and listen in on all the oh my goodness without a doubt i mean while he was on the phone i was listening of course you know driving and listening picking up understanding how it works understanding what went went into this business how to be successful how to navigate talent how to deal with deals all of that i learned while driving him around and so when did you get to so when you went to overbrook like why did you move is it just because opportunity came up yes because see um primarily when i first started interning it was focused mostly on music because the music business portion of that company was so big and vibrant what i was really passionate about was music was great but i really wanted to learn film right so at the time when overbrook started they got a film deal with um universal pictures and so james lasseter and will smith broke off and started overbrook entertainment with that deal with universal and then i went over there as their first intern because i really wanted to understand more about the film side of the business, the film development side of the business.

So, how did you get your first movie deal?

Because that, again, is not there are people who move here all day, all night from everywhere in the world to have like an opportunity.

So, how did you even get that?

Because after I was an assistant for two years, I actually went to go work for Babyface and Tracy Edmonds in their film department as a development executive.

I did that for two years, and then I went to MGM as a studio executive.

I worked on Be Cool and Beauty Shop, and then I left there because MGM got sold sold to Sony along with a couple other equity investors back in like, you know, 2005.

Right.

And so I was able to transition to Sony/slash Columbia Pictures and became an executive there.

And so I worked on everything from the pursuit of happiness, 7 pounds, Pink Panther 2, 21,

Jumping the Broom, Karate Kid Remake, you know, Heaven is for Real.

I worked on a lot of films.

And so

as an executive.

As an executive at the studio.

At the studio, right.

Right.

Very different.

So very different.

So I'd always had a desire to run my own company.

Right.

And so after Heaven is for Real came out, this was a faith-based film that I oversaw and shepherded within the studio.

We made it for $14 million opening weekend and made about $30 million.

And then it went on to make $100 million worldwide.

What was it called?

What was it called?

Heaven is for Real.

Oh, Heaven is for Real.

Yeah, yeah.

That was a big one.

Yeah, it was huge.

Yeah, yeah.

It was massive.

And so I ended up, you know, you saying, okay, you know, at the time, the chairman of the studio wanted me to, you know, they wanted to promote me and all that kind of stuff.

I said, no, no, I want my own company.

And that was Amy Pascal, who, you know, is like a legendary producer of Spider-Man now, you know.

And so she was like, what?

You want your own company?

I said, yeah, I want my own company.

I want to run my own company.

I want you to give me a deal.

And she said, oh, okay.

All right.

We'll do it.

But you can't negotiate with anyone else.

And I said, okay, that's cool.

As long as the deal is you asked for what you wanted.

That's right.

That's right.

That's exactly what I wanted.

Cause I'm like, I'm at this point in time, I'm making a lot of movies for the studio that's making them a lot of money.

I'm like, hey, this is cool, but I got to invest in myself.

You know, I got to see, you know, over time, if I have the ability to do what I've done for them, for me.

Right.

And so she was, you know, in her, I guess, savviness and understanding and catching my vision, she said, yeah, no problem.

So that's how I got my deal.

They gave me a deal.

And the first movie that I did for Sony was Miracles from Heaven, starring Jennifer Garner and Queen Latifah, and Eugenio Derbes, who's, you know, they're all amazing.

And then I did a movie called The Star, which was an animated film that had Stephen Young and Oprah Winfrey and Tyler Perry as voices, among so many other great talent.

And then I moved my deal from Sony to Fox.

Why?

Because it was a better opportunity, you know, at the time, you know.

What was the opportunity?

I want to know.

Yeah, but for me in running this business, you know, I'm...

I'm obsessive, okay?

Right.

I'm like, yo, I want to make, you know, let's make two a year.

You know, let's go.

Like, yeah, you know, like, people need hope.

People need inspiration.

People need, and they're look to entertainment.

People look to entertainment, whether, whether we like it or not, entertainment plays a very valuable cultural force, cultural impact by people looking to entertainment for help, for guidance, to know what to wear, to know what to be, to know what to say.

All of these things, again, whether it's good or bad, right?

I agree.

It still is influential.

You know, entertainment is one of the most powerful mediums in the world.

And so for me, I'm like, look, I want to go.

I want to make more.

And so the opportunity to go to Fox was the promise of being able to do more.

And that, that is what was happening.

I was able to get a film made there with Chrissy Metz called Breakthrough.

There was a song that Diane Warren wrote for the for the movie.

It ended up getting an Oscar nomination.

And then right when all that was happening, Fox got sold to Disney.

And so Disney, yeah, so Disney, you know, basically took over Fox.

And so I had to go find a new deal.

And you lost your deal.

I did.

And so I ended up at Paramount, which is where I've been for the past couple of years.

And how's that going?

It's going good.

You know, I got a lot of friends at Paramount, and they're, you know, they're having a great moment with the success of Top Gun and getting ready to sit down with it.

That movie is like, it's like every week.

It's like unbelievable.

I know.

I know.

It just, it just, the timing of it.

The timing was, I mean, unbelievable.

That movie is crushing.

Like, I've never seen it.

I know.

And it's a great film.

And, you know, it is good.

I like it.

Everyone involved, including Tom, you know, just was amazing.

So you still have your deal.

So what's what, I mean, what kind of deal is it?

Do you have like a minimum?

Do you, how does it work when you have like a development deal?

Like, I kind of understand, but most people won't.

So how does it yeah?

So on the so I have a film deal with Paramount Pictures and I have a television deal with CBS Studios.

And so the way that that works is that Paramount Pictures basically funds the overhead of my company on the film side.

In exchange, I give them a first look at any material that I want to develop.

And do you have like certain, like, so do you have a certain budget you have to kind of

stay with or is it whatever you have to do?

I mean, you mean in terms of budget for them, films or budget in terms of overhead?

Everything.

Do they say you have X amount of dollars?

They give you a finite amount of money for your overhead, and you can kind of, you know, divvy it up how you see fit for the most part.

Right, right, right.

And then on the budgets for your films, it just depends on what that particular film is and what level of appetite they have to make it.

So, with the first look, if they say, no, I don't want to do it, I can take it everywhere.

You could take it everywhere else.

And so, so your TV deal is, so do you have any TV things happening?

Yeah, I just did a

series on the air with BET and BET Plus called Kingdom Business,

which is very much like Empire, the series that was on Fox.

I love that show.

Yeah, but this show, my show, is set in the world of the gospel music industry.

So it's really great.

And Kirk Franklin and Dr.

Holly Carter are involved.

Is it doing well?

It's doing great.

We literally just opened up the writer's room for season two and all that.

It's moving forward.

BET loves the show.

BET Plus loves the show.

It's been a big hit for them.

That's amazing.

Yeah, that's great.

That's great.

And then I produced a pilot for CBS this past season, which was a reboot of Early Edition, which was a show that was on, you know, about 20 years ago.

Oh, my God.

You're doing so much stuff just on that stuff alone.

Yeah, yeah.

So you're busy.

Oh, yeah.

You're just like, I thought you were just doing the hit axle with me and doing some podcast and sharing this shit about NAD.

I didn't know what you're doing.

Okay, I get it.

Okay, so all that, so you're still working actively in that world of Hollywood and producing.

Oh, yeah, I just did a film.

I just produced a movie called Flaming Hot, which is about Richard Montanez, who was the driving force behind Flamin' Hot Cheetos.

He was a Mexican janitor who worked for Frito-Lay.

Wow.

Came up with the idea to put chili powder on a a Cheeto and market it to his community in Southern California.

And next thing you know, it takes off and become what we know now as Flaming Hot Cheetos, a billion-dollar brand.

Yeah.

And so Eva Longori just directed the film.

We're doing it with Searchlight, Disney, and Hulu.

And that'll be out sometime next year.

So then, so, okay, so then how much time do you have to like allot to that and then also do these other things?

Like, what is it?

It's a blender.

It's a smoothie.

It's a professional smoothie.

You just put it all in, you mix it up, and you do it.

And just, yeah, exactly.

That's all you can do, right?

That's it.

That's all you can do.

So, like, do you have a staff of people, like having producers, having creatives?

Like, how big is the like your

couple folks in the film division, a couple folks in TV,

a couple folks in digital, and then, you know, my own assistant.

So, you know, I have about six.

And then I have a manager who really helps, you know, navigate all the talent side of my life.

And oh, so you have to do acting too?

I do.

I do.

Sorry, Jay.

God.

You asked me the question.

I'm just answering.

I mean, like, okay, this is like just do model too.

Like, I feel like.

You haven't modeled yet.

You haven't modeled it yet.

You have a smile.

You should get like a crest or Colgate deal.

Listen, you're the queen of brandy, so you might be able to hook me up.

I mean, listen, I think I might be able to actually.

With that smile, I'm surprised no one's approached you yet, really.

Not yet.

Not yet.

With that smile, you've never been approached by like all these like, you know, toothpaste companies or like, no, no, no, no.

Maybe after this, it'll change.

I think so.

I think we have to talk about that because that's a whole other revenue stream that you haven't tapped into yet.

Yes, I have not at all.

So I'm very old.

We got to talk about that.

Okay.

So, okay, you got TV, you got the Hollywood producing stuff.

Wow, that's crazy.

So what else?

So then what else?

So you're doing these movies, then you start doing these movies and you got this deal with this, these, with,

at the time, it was Sony and then the other Fox.

Yes.

So then how did you kind of like morph into all these other things?

Like, how did you become a dating expert from being a Hollywood guy?

Right.

You know, or how did you become like a spiritual guy or a speaker?

Right.

Okay.

You're still only in that one area, right?

Right.

So we'll go back in the story and then kind of articulate some parallel paths that were happening.

Yes, because there's like so much with you.

Who knew?

Who knew, right?

That's why we're here.

Torre, you should have told me this, you know?

Come on, okay.

So when I was 15,

the church I grew up in in Oakland was run by my uncle, who was my pastor,

Dr.

DJ Williams.

And so he started a church in East Oakland called Wings of Love, Marinatha Ministries, and that was our family church.

And so at 15, they had me give my first sermon for this youth day.

And so 15?

15, yeah.

Wow.

Okay.

And so I was, you know, I was a huge follower of Les Brown.

Yeah.

And I love Les Brown.

He's amazing.

He's just a legend and a guru and unbelievable.

And his book, I think it was called Live Your Dreams, was out around that time.

And so for the first sermon, I really probably relied more on that book than I did on the Bible to create my sermon.

How old are you, by the way?

I'm 44.

Okay, because you've lived a life with lots of stuff.

No, like a lot going on.

A lot happening.

So much.

Okay.

So I started preaching at 15.

Okay.

And then people were like, oh my goodness, you need to go into ministry.

You're like, you have the gift.

I said, no, I'm being called to Hollywood.

But even though I didn't think I was supposed to preach as my profession, I still started doing it.

So fast forward to when I took the assistant job working for James Lasseter, Will Smith's former producing partner and manager.

That same year, my uncle said, hey, Devon, I'm getting older.

Can you come up to Oakland once a month to preach for me at Wings of Love?

And so at first I didn't want to do it, but I was like, you know, okay, because my uncle had been such a, has been and still a very influential force in my life.

Right.

And so I started going up to Oakland once a month to preach.

So lo and behold, I don't remember how it happened, but the folks at Overbrook started to find out, like, oh, wait a minute.

So you preach?

And I'm like, yeah.

And they're like, what?

So we started like doing at that time, we would do Bible studies during lunch and people would come to me for advice.

They would come to me for spiritual counsel.

They would come come to me for prayer.

So that was just all organic.

And then when I got to MGM, the Hollywood Reporter did an article on Black Hollywood.

And they featured me in the article talking about I was a young black executive.

But what made me unique is not only was I an executive, but I also preached.

And they talked about me going up to Oakland once a month.

And they also talked about me observing the Sabbath.

Because even as a Christian, you know, I was raised observing Sabbath.

So Friday night, sundown, Saturday sundown, yeah, I don't work because it's Sabbath.

It's a day of rest.

That's what the word says.

You're like Jewish like me.

Who knew?

It's Shabbat.

Shabbat Shalom.

Shabbat Shalom.

Do you get a hala?

Do you do the whole thing?

I don't understand.

Yeah, I mean, on Friday night growing up, you know, we would bring in the Sabbath together as a family and then go to church Sabbath morning.

And then after church, we would have our, you know, our dinner.

Do you drive?

Yeah, we would drive.

We didn't practice like Orthodox.

We were drive in any way.

No, no, no.

It was just, you know, taking the principle of rest and, you know, not going to school dances and not watching movies and not watching regular TV.

Not, you know, we, there was a lot of restrictions growing up.

And so even now, I've still observed the Sabbath.

Throughout my whole Hollywood career, I've observed the Sabbath.

And so that was also something that people were like, what?

Like, you know, because I told them when I took the internship, if it requires me to work on the Sabbath, I'm not going to take it.

And they were like, okay, wow.

Were they confused?

They were, but they just said, all right, we're going to leave them alone.

Right.

Right, right.

So, and then when I got the job at Sony and did all that, you know, worked at MGM, I was always observing the Sabbath.

And so what I didn't know is I was communicating that my spirituality was important to me.

Inadvertently, I was just saying, hey, this is my boundary.

And if the job doesn't work for the boundary, cool, I'm not going to compromise the boundary for the job.

And so when I'm going back to me preaching at Oakland, you know, as that started to get out there and as, you know, the information about Sabbath, all of that was put into the MGM article.

And so then people started calling me and saying, oh, wow, you're doing this.

Is that unique?

How are you in Hollywood and still holding on to your faith and all this kind of stuff?

So it just started a lot of conversations.

Did they think you were Jewish?

Or like, how do you know?

No, they knew I was Christian, but they just didn't know.

I was like, wait, you're black, you're Christian, you observe Sabbath.

How do those work?

That's how I feel right now with you.

You're a dating, you're a Hollywood producer, you're also a writer.

What are you?

No, I know.

I'm just me.

I'm just me.

You're literally like the smoothie of everything.

A smoothie, right?

You know what I mean?

So many ingredients.

Inspirational smoothie.

So true.

Even back then.

So I'm not the only one who said this to you.

No, you're not.

You're not.

I get it every day of my life.

Holy shit.

So long story short, talking about that parallel.

Yeah.

So when I got to Sony and I was there, I got there in 2005.

So it would have been, I think, around 2008, 2000.

It would have been 2008, I believe.

Okay.

I got approached by a book agent and they said, hey, you know,

your faith and your, you know, role in Hollywood, you might want to consider writing a book.

And if you ever did, I could help you out.

So about a year later, I was in Beijing uh working on the karate kid uh remake and i just had this idea oh wow this is this is how my first book is going to be about you have to compromise your faith to be successful because i've i haven't compromised my faith and i'm here working at this studio and i'm in beijing china yeah how are you doing that because weren't you like working on the weekends on saturday and friday at in beijing like you were just like sorry i'm not i'm out yeah Literally, literally, we were in my book, Produced by Faith, which is the first book.

Yeah.

The opening scene is me being in this hutong, which was an old Chinese neighborhood.

Can Can we say that on the camera?

Yeah, but

that's what it's called.

It's called a hutong.

And so we were there, and Jackie Chan and Jaden and Will and Jada.

And, you know, I mean, there were thousands of people in that particular village that came out for the shoot.

And, you know, I'm there as a studio executive, you know, working on the movie.

And the sun started to go down.

And I said, I'll see y'all tomorrow when the sun comes up.

When the sun goes down on Saturday night.

And so I left.

And so I write about it and produce by faith.

And then what was so funny is the next day I went out to go spend some time in the Olympic Village.

And one of the producers saw me and they were like, wait, wait, can you be out?

I'm like, yes, I can be out.

They're like, okay, because if you lose faith, there's no hope for any of us.

That's exactly right.

Oh, my God.

I was like, no, no, I'm not losing faith.

Just getting some fresh air.

That's amazing.

You really are that like restrictive about it then, too.

It's not just like when it's convenient, basically.

No, no, I really try to really, even now, you know, get to the essence of rest.

And even now, I'll turn off my social media.

I'll turn off my email for that Sabbath day.

So Friday night, sundown to Saturday night, sundown.

You know, I just really try to refresh, renew, just plug in.

So what are you doing?

What do you do?

Reading, spending time with the family, sometimes going to church, watching videos on YouTube.

I'll also write.

Not yet.

I'll write, you know, so I do all those things.

But the point I'm getting at is all of that

was what led me to write the first book.

So when I got the idea, I called the book agent and my book agent at the time and said, hey, I have this idea.

She was like great let's go sell it we went and sold it to simon and schuster but then i had to go to to my bosses because i was an executive i was a vice president of production for columbia pictures at the time and i said to them hey is it okay if i write this book and they were like

you want to do what i said well i want to write a book about my faith and they were like man well usually people write books when they retire or get fired right like an autobiography right it's like but but i'm like it's not really bob iger now right there you go and so but they were like you know what because this is who you've been since you got here we're going to give you the okay to do it.

So they gave me the okay to write my first book.

And the book, you know, did very well.

And then that led to the second book and that led to the third book.

So while I was being an executive and then transitioning into producing, the writing and becoming an author was just a part of it.

So once you're an author, you know, as you know, you are an expert in whatever you just wrote about.

Right, yeah, yeah.

And then so that's when television started calling.

So like the parallel path of like being the executive, writing the book, you asked me, okay, well, how did I become, you know, a dating, dating, you know, advisor or a relationship advisor?

Then TV started calling.

So I did Open Wind Free Super Soul Sunday and I did Dr.

Phil and I did Meredith Vieira and did Entertainment Tonight and co-hosted that and been, was on Dr.

Oz for years.

As what?

What kind of stretch?

I went on there as a, basically with Dr.

Oz, we did a lot of different segments.

So some segments I was a spiritual advisor.

Other segments, I was a relationship advisor.

Other segments, I was just a life advisor.

You know, just depend on, depending on what the segment was.

I mean, we did all those different type of segments over the course of a couple of years.

Really?

Yeah.

Oh, my goodness.

Yes.

Because normally they have a lane for you.

Like when I also did his show a bunch, but it was always in the fitness area.

Or like they didn't call me to do like, you know, religious hour.

You know, they did, I did my lane, you know?

But with you, they did all these other.

Absolutely.

We had all these different touch points that were authentic to me that worked for them for segments and stuff.

And so that's how I got into TV.

And then that got me into, you know, doing more, you know, dating shows and going on and doing advice, you know, everything from the Steve Harvey show that I've done advice on.

Yeah.

Did dating advice on the reel.

Just did, you know, a season of Married at First Sight.

I mean, not a season, but an episode of Married at First Sight this season and the next season.

So it was organic is my point.

Wow.

So are you going to get your own talk show?

You know what?

Listen, I would love that.

And

we're going to see what God has in plan.

But yeah, I would love to.

You know, I mean, the talk space is so different than it has been.

But, you know, I just know that given my experience in this business, given the things that I've written, given the access that I have and my point of view, it's something that I'm really excited about.

And me and my team have talked about.

We're just, you know, trying to get the right time in the right format.

So have you explored it at all?

Like, have you pitched yourself to them?

Like, to...

We have not gone out with the Devon Franklin show.

Okay.

You know, we have been really strategic about, you know, setting in place the right foundation and the right thing.

The right foundation.

Because once you launch with the Devon Franklin show, you can't relaunch it.

Yep.

Right.

And if you launch and it doesn't sell, then the market's like, you're done.

We're done.

So we have been very, very, you know,

strategic and thoughtful and, you know, done a lot of meetings with different people around town and, you know, really just trying to figure out like what's the best way to ultimately get there.

Right.

But it's something that's close to my heart.

It's something I'm very passionate about because it really allow would allow me to bring together all of these different things that I'm able to do.

You know, I mean, not that long ago, I sat for King Richard.

I sat down with Will Smith and interviewed him.

For where?

For, you know, we pushed out to the faith community.

You know, so we did.

So, where did you do the interview?

Like, what would you do?

We did it at the Press Junket.

So, right there on the tennis court.

And so, I went there, you know, and got about, you know, 10, 15 minutes with him.

And that was great.

And then for my film Breakthrough, I brought Steph Curry on board as an executive producer.

And he and I did a sit-down that we did for Fox Sports.

And then I did a sit-down with Chrissy Metz.

And so my point is, like, you know, I have all of these, you know, great relationships of people that are, you know, really like-minded that if I was doing my talk show, I'd be able to bring that knowledge and that information, you know, to everyone because there's so much that people don't realize that goes into the people that they love.

Absolutely.

And so, you know, me being able to connect in that way, I think could be great.

Have you ever explored doing like a podcast, just like just starting as a podcast?

Yes, I've thought about it.

I've talked about it.

You know, we have a couple meetings come, I have a couple meetings coming up to discuss it.

You know, you know, right, the podcast is a hustle.

It's a hustle.

It's a hustle.

And so

you have the relationship.

So I do, I do.

But the only thing that I wonder about with a podcast is, you know, with all the things that I'm doing,

you know, like, okay, is that just another thing to do?

Or is it or is it the thing that's going to help me bring all of these things together?

And that's where I go back and forth.

We are in conversations, you know, about one and I'm taking some meetings, but I haven't launched full steam ahead because I've really been trying to be thoughtful about the right talent opportunity for what I have to offer.

Yeah, but like someone like you, no, not to give you business advice, but I'm going to give you a question.

I'll tell you, I'm going to give it to you anyway.

Yes, like it's like such an easy, so I'm going to tell you, this is just like a side thing.

Funnily enough, this was not called Habits and Hustles.

It was called Game Changers.

And I sold, I sold a TV show to a major network and they were going to do similar, a similar thing called Game Changers.

And I sold it to the network.

And we were like, like, you know,

we're trying to make a pilot.

And it was like, and you know, this, it goes on forever and ever and ever and nothing ever happens.

And I'm waiting, waiting.

And like, we couldn't even agree on who to be the pilot.

Like, they didn't, I wanted this thing, they wanted something else.

It was like a nightmare.

Right.

While this was happening, I'm like, fuck that.

I'm not doing that.

I'm just going to start it as a podcast and see kind of like, I'm not going to give, I'm not going to put my destiny in someone else's hands.

And I'm just going to like move, you know, I'm going to like do have action and see what happens.

Anyway, long story short now I have this podcast but like not to your level I'm not comparing it but what I'm saying is that the amount of opportunities and leverage that I got from doing what I'm doing um has just given me so much more um ability to kind of create with more opportunity so like say now like people Now, some of these networks are now coming back at a whole different level, right?

Because you did it on your own and you have something that's like worth something.

something that's right you know what i mean i do so for you i think it would be like such a simple thing to do to try to just start doing it on your own terms yeah and then you can like reverse engineer that's a good idea you know like okay that's what i would do and a couple of my friends have done that and now they're like they're they have like huge spotify deals you know like making more money doing that than they were doing doing something else like right doing the other entertainment stuff that they were doing right because the medium this medium of podcasting it's super saturated, yes.

But if you're the right, if you are, if you're talent already and you are, and you have a following and you do, and you have all these relationships, it's like a no-brainer.

Why would you not do that?

And like, you know, you can catapult your, all that into a whole different opportunity for yourself.

Okay.

No, this is good.

This is good counsel.

That's what I, I mean, I don't think

I'm going to be able to do that.

No, I know.

I came here for everything God has.

So thank you.

I'll take it.

No, I just think it's like a no-brainer for you.

And you're so well spoken.

like what i noticed like i was saying to you before when i met with at tori's birthday or whatever like your voice was made for this type of thing like you have a beautiful voice you're very eloquent you're articulate and you have all the relationships like i'm like look i'm like where is he why do you not have a big deal you know what i mean i don't get it right right you know what that listen it's one of those things that you know as i well here's what i'll say everything happens at the right time yeah you know and for me you know as i've gone on just my own journey and personal development and really getting core, clear on the core essence of who I am and really living in that truth, I think that, you know, if I had the show a few years ago, it wouldn't have been as impactful as it is now.

Like me doing it now, like who I am now, what I know now, oh, forget about it.

Well, 100%.

But you can also figure that out while you're doing something.

This is true.

You know, not like you have so much time on your hand.

I know you have like 97 projects that you're looking at.

You're adding another one.

I love it.

No, why not?

I love it.

Let's go.

Just keep on like adding to that pile.

Yes.

But But I just think you'd be so good with it.

Thank you.

No, you're welcome.

And then do you also do motivational speaking?

You know, I do here and there.

Oh, okay.

You know what I mean?

But it's not like a huge, you know.

It's not like what you, you know, you don't like travel the whole country.

No, no, no, no, not at all.

It's more this like, you know, one-offs or whatever.

There you go.

So then how did this whole Audible book come to be?

Like why and what and how and all the others?

I mean, so Audible had approached me a couple years ago.

Okay.

I had done an article for Maria Shriver.

She has a Sunday paper.

And the article was at the time called The Coalition of Black Women.

Okay.

And it was about...

By Maria Shriver?

No, no, no.

I wrote the article for Maria Shriver.

Okay.

Okay, got it.

Okay.

So when my father died, my mother brought in the help of my grandmother and my grandmother's seven sisters.

And so I wrote an article about how they surrounded me and my brothers and helped to really bridge the gap of losing our father.

And so they gave us wisdom and knowledge and about everything from religion to sex to money and all this.

So Audible said, you know, this article is really good.

Would you ever be interested in writing a book about it?

And I said, oh, well, let me, yeah, I mean, I hadn't thought about it, but I'd be open to it.

And so we did a deal to do an audio-only book.

And so the part of the process was me getting a chance to sit down with my mom and five of my living great aunts.

So my Aunt Donna, my Aunt Nuna, my Aunt Sandra, my Aunt Ida, and my Aunt Enos.

Aunt Nuna is 95, Aunt Sandra is 75.

So it was a blessing to be able to sit down with them individually and then ask them questions about our history and our story and about the death of my father and their point of view on it.

And then when I put the book together,

when the listeners hear it, it almost listens like a movie because I really brought a storytelling aspect to it.

So like my voice will come in and then one of my aunts will come in, then my mother will come in.

And we really just start to talk about how this tragedy.

of losing my father impacted everyone and then how that led us to be the family that we are today.

Oh wow.

Okay.

So that when did you release this?

I released it earlier this year.

It was April of what 22.

Oh, okay.

So it's very, it's very

relatively new in the past six months.

Yep.

And so

I want to ask you though, about because when I, like I said, I did all this research and it's all the dating stuff.

I have to ask, I did the research on this whole truth about, tell me the truth about men.

Oh, yeah.

So can you tell me the truth about men?

Can you please tell me about it?

How much time do you have?

As much as you want to give me.

I mean, I've taken up God knows how much already, but

I want you to give me the good.

Yes.

The truth about men, I'm actually in the process of developing that as a scripted show, believe me.

I was going to say, why didn't you?

That was my next thing, or a movie.

I feel like that would be a great movie.

Yeah, well, we're going to do the scripted show first.

Yeah.

And then we'll see.

Why'd you choose that?

Because that's just what kind of came together

with the right writer and the right partners.

And, and, you know, I can't speak about it yet because our deals aren't closed.

Hopefully, they'll close in the next one.

You'll come back and

the truth about men, this idea was birthed out of

all of what was going on with me too.

And

for me, as a young man, I have always been fascinated with this idea of why do men cheat?

And I'll never forget, I talk about this in the book, that growing up, I found this picture of my father and my mother and another family member.

sitting on a bed.

And my mother looked really unhappy.

And that family member looked really happy and so I remember looking at it saying what is this what's going on and so years later I asked another family member I said hey what's what what what happened here and they told me the truth that my father had an affair with that family member and that my mother found out about it and that picture basically basically captured that and so I said wow so if my dad

couldn't be faithful to my mother,

why?

And so that question always kind of haunted me like what is going on in us as men that keeps us from being able to keep our commitments and do what we say we're going to do and be who we say we're going to be and so all of that and then the me too movement really was the catalyst for me to say okay as a man i need to do something and so that's what was the seed of uh the truth about men and the truth about men what men and women need to know what that is is that every man every man struggles between two things, love and lust.

And I call love the master.

I call call lust the dog.

So for us as men to be the men we were called to be, we have to put love in control of lust.

We have to master the dog within.

And that lust can be a lust for money, sex, power, fame, women.

There's a lot of things that we can lust over.

And so for men, if we become what our lust makes us, if we become what that dog within makes us, we become irresponsible, we become unaccountable, we inflict countless damage, not only to

people that we say we care about, but for generations to come.

We become callous.

We become selfish, right?

So that lust is selfishness.

That love is selflessness.

And when we as men say, I'm going to put selflessness over selfishness, that's when we can become the men we were called to be.

But the truth is, that's the struggle going on within every man.

I don't care who they are.

I don't care where they are.

It's the struggle.

But nobody wants to talk about it.

I mean, also, why, why only men?

Don't you think women have that,

not as, not as

fear, right?

And if I were to do the book, you know, if I were to do another edition, I probably would say the truth about men and women.

But one of the truths about women are.

But here's the thing.

As a man,

even in the dating space,

I cannot be a man that writes a book about what women need to do.

No, 100%.

That's sad.

That's ridiculous.

Yes.

So, yes, you're right that women's job to do.

But not even

my job.

I think that that's that's been done already.

And I think that's the problem.

A lot of times in the dating space, it's so focused towards what women need to do.

We as men get off with the free pass.

And I'm saying, no, as men,

let's do our work.

And this is our work.

If we as men started to do our work, things would change like that.

But we don't sometimes.

Okay.

You know, so that's why I wanted to write it from the male point of view.

But you're right.

Women struggle between love and lust as well.

Okay.

How about this?

Okay, so give me some practical things, right?

So that makes, I like the way you describe that.

And I

wholeheartedly agree with you, right?

I also think it's a personality thing, right?

Like, if, but I do think there's like, there is that conflict.

How do what's the first step though?

Like, wanting to do something like that, wanting to do right doesn't mean that you do right, right?

Like, no, someone's, you know, the best intentions were, what's that?

That's the road to hell is paved with the medical intentions

with good intentions, right?

So, okay, so I want to do well and I'm a good person, but like, sometimes I just like, I, I mess up or I'm not, you know, I veer this way, you know, like I can course correct, but does it mean that I'm not doing the mistake in the first place?

What, how do you, what, what's your advice or would you tell people step one would be?

Acknowledgement.

Okay, acknowledgement.

Anything we suppress, we empower.

So to your point, like if I want to change, not even change, if I want to be the best man I can be, I got to acknowledge that the worst man is in me.

That's, because I, because if I just say, oh, I want to be a good good guy, I want to be a good man, but I don't acknowledge that darkness in me and say, hey, yeah, I want to be a good man, but yo, I got that dog in me.

I got that lust in me too.

Yeah.

So it starts with acknowledging, right?

Okay, it's here.

I'm not going to sit up here and act like it doesn't exist because if I do that, I'm going to do something that works against who I say I want to be.

So the acknowledgement comes the first.

The second part is to say, okay, what are my triggers?

What have I done in the past where it has triggered me to feed the dog instead of feeding the master within?

Oh, got it, right?

You know, what triggered me was, okay, you know what?

I got lonely.

So I called up this girl.

I had no intention for her.

And then after that, I ghosted her.

Okay, all right.

Let's pause there.

Does the ghosting align with what you say you're about?

No.

Okay, got it.

But the key is you got lonely.

Okay, let's talk about a better way to handle your loneliness instead of using women as an object of fulfillment in a moment and then discarding them.

This is how we as men start to level up by addressing what's going on and taking a moment to identify like, oh, I can do better and I want to do better.

And here's how I do better by going back and saying, oh, here's where I missed it.

Yeah, I was wrong to do that.

That wasn't, that wasn't cool.

Yeah, okay.

That's how we do it.

You acknowledge, you start to look for your triggers, and then you just have to really be,

we as men, we need discipline.

So we have to use discipline, right?

So, so it's like, all right, just because you can doesn't mean that you always should, you know, as a man, just because, you know, I can be in a situation where maybe a woman is, you know, saying, hey, let's go do this or do that.

If I don't have an intent for her, I'm not, why, why would I do that?

I'm not just going to do that for sport because for her, it's something serious.

For me, it's just, oh, let's go.

I'm like, no, I'm going to use discipline.

Because I want that master, that love in me, even if it's a situation that people say, oh, well, it's fine.

No, if my heart is not there, if I have no intent, I'm not going to do it because it's the man that I want to be, right?

I want to master this dog within.

I want this dog to not run, ruin, and wreck my life, which it will do if I just recklessly feed it.

If I'm constantly giving in to my flesh, constantly giving in to the lust, constantly giving in to the excess.

I'm going to become what it makes me.

And that's less than a man to me.

That's so well, beautiful.

CJ, you're such a well-spoken person.

First of all, have you ever heard the Chris Rock thing?

You're only as faithful as your options.

Yes.

Okay.

So I was thinking about that when you were saying this.

Number one.

Number two, here you are.

You're a guy in Hollywood, right?

Good-looking guy, young guy.

Are you single, married?

What's your deal?

You're single.

Okay.

What do you, how are you, how are you taking, are you hard?

Are you able to like do that?

Like, how are you able to harness the lust?

And yes.

How?

How?

What are you doing for dip?

Like, are you just figuring?

So again, acknowledgement triggers intention and intention.

So, you're not, so you're not not, you don't have to be.

Well, actually, I want you to tell me the truth.

Like, what are you, to be honest, I want to tell me the truth, Devon.

Tell me the truth.

So, does that mean you, when you meet a girl and you don't have any intent, if you have, if your intention is maybe a little bit darker or a little bit like not a little suspect to what her intention is, you will just if we don't have the same intention, if it's not good for me, if it's not good for her, it's not good for me.

You never slip up?

No,

because because it's about intent.

It's like, no, I don't want, like, if we do not have the same intent, okay, for what this is going to be, then here's what happens.

Okay, in my experience,

yeah.

If, in fact, let's say, I'm just playing devil's advocate, that's great.

Well, but the devil doesn't need an advocate, got plenty of advocates, right?

But, like, in this situation, right?

Like, for me, it's like, okay, let's say, you know, I want something more casual,

she wants something more committed.

Okay,

if that's where we are,

engaging only is going to lead to a problem.

But part of that requires just being honest too, because a lot of times in those early stages, there isn't a lot of honesty.

There's a little bit of like, oh, I want to, you know, show you how great I am.

And let me put on that the character and put on the act and sales,

all of that.

But I would encourage anyone, male or female, to not allow that period of time to go without asking real questions about who you're dealing with and finding out what their real intent is.

And again, doesn't mean that their intent has to be marriage, right?

It could just be like, my intent is to have a good time.

Okay, great.

My intent is to have a good time.

Great, let's go have a good time.

Wonderful.

My intent is to have a good time.

Well, my intent is marriage.

Let's not do that.

Yeah.

Because one of us is probably going to get hurt.

So to your point, it's just really about being honest.

What are you looking for?

Okay, cool.

You know what?

I'm in the same place.

Okay, great.

Let's go hang out.

Doesn't mean it's going to work out.

Doesn't mean it's going to lead to a relationship.

Doesn't even mean it's going to lead to a marriage.

But at least in those early stages we can try to be on the same page and that's what i say as men like okay you know what my intent is to only deal with people as best i can that share the same intent because then if i don't as men then we become manipulators yeah we manipulate women we manipulate situations to get what we want even if it causes them harm and pain and i don't believe listen in relationships there is pain associated with it because things don't work out and it's painful but some of that pain can be avoided if we were were just more intentional and we were just honest about our intent.

And guess what?

Give a woman the information for her to make the best decisions for her health and her wholeness.

I agree with that 100%.

Versus me not, if I'm a man and I don't want to quite be honest with you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because I'm trying to get, you know, like, no, give her, here's where I am.

I'm in a casual moment.

I'm in a not serious mood.

You know, we may go out tonight.

You may not hear from me for a week.

That's where I am.

Give her the information.

The problem is a lot of times because people, women want to,

they're much more, they want to acquiesce.

They want to like, they want to be more like easygoing.

They'll say, they'll say, yeah, yeah, I want a casual relationship.

But really, their intention is not to be casual, right?

So like when someone's like pretending, when you know that's happening, not you, I'm saying when someone knows that's happening, what is a person to do?

They can always fall back on the fact, well, they said they wanted something casual, but knowing that that's not the case, what do you do in that situation?

You know, I think it's a little bit of, as a man, going back to the whole master of the dog.

Okay,

if I'm choosing to be the master, right?

If I'm choosing to let love lead, that requires me to live on some level sacrificially.

Okay, so in that situation, if you sense or I sense, I know you're going to, yeah, you know, she's saying she's cool with it, but I don't feel that.

So either we give it a moment and see, you know, if we, you know, give it some time to see what happens.

But fundamentally, if we, we know, we can feel, and if it doesn't feel right, then I would encourage any man, hey,

time out, press pause.

You know, maybe this is not the right situation for you.

Maybe this is not the right situation for her.

Maybe she doesn't want to lose you.

So she's going along with your program.

You know, but ultimately, as a man, if you really have no intent for her uh long term then maybe this is not the right situation for you and that's where the sacrifice comes in were you always because

were you always like this just more innately or did you have did you have to grow to do this yourself and learn

to grow you were never a dog no well no because never

hold on i've never been a dog right did the dog kind of like with a dog the dog is the master the dog has not been bigger than the master but the dog is here and the dog has always been here you know, and just even growing up, part of the thing was like growing up in the church, you know, there was so much of a sometimes a culture of suppression, right?

When you have these lustful feelings and you don't know what to do with them, and you know, it's like, well, you know, God says, be holy.

Okay, but I'm horny.

What do you do with that?

And so, you know, growing up, you know, there was a lack of information on just how to navigate it.

And that's one of the reasons why I also wrote the truth about men was to say, hey, these feelings are going to come.

Right.

So let's not, you know, act like they're not there.

Let's figure out what we do with them.

So for me, my journey was, it was like I was never a dog, but that doesn't mean I always had a good intent.

You know, and I talk about this in the book where, you know, there were women that I had been dating and, you know, again, didn't really have the intent.

And what began to happen was I would see how much I would be hurting them because we weren't really aligned in our intent.

Now, again, it may not work out even when you have the right intent, but I knew in my heart of hearts that I wasn't really for this woman, but I was still dating her, still taking her out because, you know, I wanted just, you know, to spend out, spend time and have fun and all that kind of stuff.

And so I talk about this in the book that, you know, I had to have my own, you know, reckoning.

And so that kind of came in the form of this dream, you know, where I really, it felt like almost like a vision from God.

And in that dream, I was at the altar and about to say I do

to my wife in the dream.

And then next thing you know, the minister says, turn around.

And I turn around and down the altar are all the women that I had dated, but they were cut open,

slain.

Really?

Littered all down the aisle.

And so basically it was like God was saying, is it worth all of that to get here?

Don't play with my daughters.

Like if you're not serious, just say I'm not serious.

Let them operate on with the full information about what they want to do for their life, but don't manipulate.

Don't try to just get and then go off to the next situation because these are truly my daughters.

So that was a reckoning for me.

And that started to inform, you know, how I dated.

And then also I was married for 10 years.

And so being married for 10 years, you know, and being in the, in, in a marriage, which is great, the, the, that, that dog was still there, right?

But because I had practiced, you know, putting the master first and leading with love, it didn't, it, it didn't disrupt my marriage, right?

Because I was like, oh, got it.

I know what this is.

Right, right, right, exactly.

You know, and I have some practice here.

And that's the other thing is men, most of the time when we're, you know, dating, we're taught to just go and conquer, you know, conquer the world, sow your oats, all that kind of stuff.

And that all has its place.

However,

when we want to transition into marriage, if we haven't been practicing some level of fidelity, some level of monogamy, it's very difficult to just in a moment.

flip a switch and it's like, oh, all of the years I've been living one way, now I'm going to live differently.

That's not so much.

I think it's more when you, like, when you're married, it's more like falling out of lust with the person that you love, right?

That's where I see the most

stuff.

Like, it's not so much like, yeah, you get married.

It's not like to, it's more when you're married and like you get into this routine and then like there's no lust anymore.

So that dog, I would say you call it, kind of like.

rears its ugly head more and more and more.

That's harder to tame than just like a little, you know, a little Maltese.

But when the German Shepherd comes out, it's much harder.

It is.

Right?

Or like the Doberman Pincher.

Like, how do you do?

Communication.

This is where communication comes in.

So, why did you and your wife split then?

Not because of that.

Jen,

you slick, Jen.

Nah, that's the next habits, hustle, and heartbreak.

That's the next podcast.

Okay, we'll do that one together.

I slipped it in.

That's okay.

And you look at me like, what?

But no, but we're going to get to that maybe.

I don't know.

But do you understand what I'm saying, though?

Like, there's a difference between

the, I understand

the messaging of the lust, but how do you tame a bigger dog when you're having, you're in a situation where you're locked and loaded in a marriage and like that happens.

It happens all the time.

But you know what?

The key is a number of things.

Acknowledgement.

Well, communicate.

Acknowledging?

For sure, but communication.

Communication.

And this,

it sounds so simple, but it's one of the hardest things to do.

To your point,

the scenario you just laid out,

you know, that in marriage, you got the love, but that lust for your partner and that drive, that sexual drive for your partner

is not there.

Okay.

Yeah.

Just being honest.

No, no, no, no, of course.

Of course.

But to the point of how to deal with it, here's a couple of things.

One,

we have to reduce the stigma

around that because people come into marriage with these ideals of all the movies they've seen.

Oh, it's going to be this.

And that's just not

your fault.

You're the producer of these movies.

Stop doing that.

I haven't done a movie like that.

Good.

I hope.

Show the real life.

Show the real show, like, this is 40 version of it.

Have you seen that movie?

Right, right.

Yes, I have.

Because it's not like that.

You know, it's not, it's not like Prince Charming and Cinder, especially when you have kids and everything else, you know.

Totally.

Make a movie like that, will you?

You got it.

Oh, and so when these ideas and ideals crash against reality,

that's when

it becomes challenging.

And that's where we have to communicate, like, okay, you know, we have to have some difficult conversations and I need to express, you know, this lust is a problem for me or I need this.

And then you, and then it's okay to bring in help.

How about that?

You know, work with a therapist, work with the sex therapist, read books,

like really take it on.

Like the same way that if you and your spouse have a home renovation, what are you going to do?

You're going to sit with the blueprint, you know, sit with the contractor.

You're going to, you know, sit down with the designer.

You're going to say, okay, how do we get this to where we want it to be?

The same way you do that with your house, do that with your love life.

Okay, you know what?

Didn't expect this to feel like I'm not having that same oomph.

Let's, let's figure out how we rekindle this.

Let's get tips.

Let's get tools.

Let's get help.

Let's not live in silence because in a lot of marriages, that's what happens.

No, I think that's true.

I think that's one of the big problems, right?

Because people then end up in their own silo and they don't really like talk about it.

No.

And so therefore it just gets worse and worse.

But I do think, and like, I'm just, I'm just calling a spade a spade.

I think that people also just change and grow apart.

I mean, that's also normal.

You know, like, I don't think we're been, we're on this earth necessarily to be, you know, monogamous to one person forever and ever and ever.

I think that's also not really, you know, and that's just, I'm just being honest.

Yeah.

I had this woman on my podcast.

Her name is Jaya.

She's a, she's a sex.

She did that show Goop, the Goop Netflix show.

Do you know who she is?

No, I don't.

Oh my gosh.

So it was very interesting because she was the sex all, she just, whatever, she's like a sex person.

And we're going into this podcast and it's going on and on and on.

We're talking about all these other things.

And then she drops like the best thing is she's like, yeah, so my partner's over there, blah, blah, blah.

His name's Ian, 15 years.

I'm like, oh, wonderful.

We have a kid, blah, blah, blah.

And I'm saying to her, how are you keeping it, you know, how do you keep it, you know, interesting and like fresh and everything else?

She goes on and on.

Okay.

And I'm like, oh, in my head, I'm like, oh, oh, this is great.

Good for her.

Like, this is amazing.

And then she drops maybe five minutes into the five more minutes into the thing, but she also has two boyfriends, 20 years each that she's been with, plus a new one that's four years.

So she's got like three other men on the side.

Like, plus, Ian's the anchor, but she has all these other relationships.

Wow.

I'm like, oh, so that's how you keep

doing this.

I'm coming with this bullshit.

I'm like, oh, well, we do this.

And I know what his sex type.

She's giving me this whole blueprint of like his, you know, how like the personality test, like that thing where like, you're the kind of person who likes compliments.

I'm the kind of person who likes gifts.

So

love languages.

Love languages, right?

So she has the same type of idea with like, you know, sex languages.

Like, you like this.

Like, she has like one that says kinky, one is this, one is that.

Not to embarrass you.

I don't want to know.

No, no, no, no, no.

It was super interesting.

That is fascinating.

It was super fascinating.

And she's, she's great.

She's so, super knowledgeable.

But then, like,

you know, the crescendo is like, but I also have 9,000 partners, partners, you know what I mean?

And this, and the other one's raising my kids.

So, like, it's just so fascinating.

Like, so, like, I think that, like, in, I think in theory, a lot of these things, like,

um,

they sound good, but reality is very different than theory.

Yeah.

In my, in my experiences.

And I'm just calling it.

I agree with that.

You know?

Yet.

I think what happens.

No, no.

I didn't say that.

One is enough.

I'm just trying to embarrass you right now because you're so like straight and narrow and nice.

You're just so like,

where's your bow tie?

You know what?

I left it at the, I wore it to Torres.

Oh, you did.

Exactly.

I did.

I did.

But, you know, but honestly, like, even in what you're talking about, reality.

Yeah.

But see, this is the thing that, you know, maybe even also gets me passionate about relationships because

we don't always take the time to acknowledge whatever the reality is.

And guess what?

There's no, there's no right or wrong reality, right?

And sometimes in marriage, there's that idea of like, oh man, if this isn't what I thought it was supposed to be, am I going to disappoint my partner?

Am I going to let them down?

Versus like, okay, let's, let's just have an honest conversation for a moment.

Doesn't mean, yes, we are growing differently, but that doesn't mean that that growing has to be, we're going apart.

Two people can grow.

Everyone's growing from the moment they say, I do.

You're growing and changing and becoming different.

And you can learn to love that person.

You can learn to fall in love with who that person is becoming.

There's no question about that.

It just comes down to when you start to feel, uh-oh, something's off.

That's the moment to catch it.

Got it.

Yes.

I see.

Because if

you let it go years

and then you try to, you know, sort it out, it could be too late.

So then, what would you say the biggest question is that you get or the biggest problem that you hear when people, because now that you're this dating expert, right?

I'm not calling myself a dating expert.

I know I've relationship advisor.

Okay, relationship advisor.

I like that.

I love that.

Okay.

What would you say one of the biggest

things that you actually get asked or hear that's the biggest problem?

Is it the cheating?

Besides the cheating?

No, it's really about how most of the time women asking, you know, how can I find a good man?

And what do you tell them?

Go on Raya.

I'm joking.

I say pray.

I just say pray.

You know, because, you know, most women come to me and they tell me, you know, about their dating horror stories.

Especially here in LA, right?

That's what people say.

Yeah, you know, people, you know, just say that women, you know, say that, you know, the men, all they want is sex and they, they, you know, want, as you just were articulating, they want polyamory and they don't want commitment.

And, and it's so hard to find someone on the same page.

And so, you know, first and foremost, I really just try to encourage them, you know, and say, I understand.

And I know that's difficult.

And, and just trust, you know, I say, you got to just trust.

You got to trust that your person is out there some way, some, somehow, and resist the temptation to allow the narrative and the culture to become your narrative, right?

So all you need is the right one.

It may take you a number of people to get there, but I do believe that love is available and do your best to not allow the resentment and the frustration and the bitterness to work against that and try to stay in the energy of the love that you want.

These are such great answers.

I mean, it's hard, but it's hard though in the moment, right?

Like I'm not single, but I have friends who are and I know that it's it because it's social media also plays a really hard, it's very difficult, right?

Because there's so much more access to everything now and people and availability for men.

And women have much more of a difficult time.

So

you're telling them to be like not to give up and all these other things.

Are there other strategies besides that that they can kind of don't be, don't, don't, um,

don't have a stigma around any way that you can find love.

So it may be, you mentioned Riot, maybe, you know, dating app like that.

But no, I mean, there are dating apps out there.

Dating app, letting, you know, asking friends, trying new things.

How are you meeting girls now that you're single?

Because I'm just me.

Right, because I was going to say it wasn't easy for you, right?

Like,

you're probably like, you're leaving here, shooing them away with like a shoe.

You didn't say all that.

I'm saying that.

I'm saying with that smile, oh my God, it's like going to be, it's like, forget about it.

You know, I don't know.

You're going to have to cool.

Yeah, I don't think you have a problem.

I'm doing all right.

I don't think so.

So what's your type?

It's like, just, what are you looking for right now?

Are you dating anybody?

You know what?

I am looking for.

And by the way, I'm not hitting on you.

I'm just asking you, by the way.

I don't want to be.

Jen, over here, try to get into all the mix.

I told you, Jen.

Habits, hustle, and heartbreak.

That's the next one.

And we get into all that, okay?

Right?

But over this one, you're sweating now.

You're like, really?

Well, I'm sweating because it's hot in here.

It ain't got nothing to do with the question.

I know, I know.

I'm kidding you.

But

in terms of your question about what am I looking for, you know, I'm really looking for truth.

You know what I mean?

Just, and that can take the shape of so many different ways, you know, and also it's like being newly.

Well, how long have you been not together?

It's been just this year.

Oh, it's brand new.

Yeah.

So, you know, I'm not like out there like, oh, you know, I'm looking this way.

It's like, you know, I'm open.

I'm open to what's true.

I'm open to what you're doing.

You're living your life.

Living my life, you know, working on healing.

And, you know, just also, you know, just being open.

So, you know, as the right person comes, you know, I'm, I'm open to that, you know, and open to whatever experiences come along with that.

So what are some of your habits and hustle?

You keep on bringing it up so let's let's find out we know you like to exercise so yes what's your like give me the day-to-day like give me your the day in the life of you with all your projects and stuff yes exactly so every time do you wake up in the morning onward so usually i'll get up you know 5 30 ish uh i'll usually go to rumble uh at six o'clock okay and then i'm done at seven come home and you do that early huh i do i love it doing early for some reason like going at seven just feels like oh man i'm not done till eight and just it just you know disrupts the day yeah it's like I get done.

If I go to workout at six and I get done at seven, I'm like, oh man, I got the rest of the day.

That's good.

If I go at seven and I don't get done till eight, something, I'm like, oh man, I feel like I'm running late.

Right.

You get anxious.

Yeah.

I'm like, oh, shoot, I'm running, I'm running behind schedule.

But so I do that.

I'll go to work.

I'll go to a Rumble or another class.

I will come home, do my protein shake, you know, usually listen to.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, back it up.

What do you put in the protein shake?

Oh, you don't want to know.

Yeah, I do.

Oh, my God.

Oh, I do.

Everything.

This is what I want.

This is actually the stuff I care about.

So come on, tell me.

Everything else.

Hollywood or Schmollywood.

I want to know about the price.

The protein shake.

That's it.

That's it.

That's what I want to know.

Okay.

So

I put this.

I usually put coconut water.

Okay.

Which brand do you like?

The harvest one?

No.

It comes in a can.

It comes, I don't know, but it's pretty good.

Okay.

You're swaying like a...

Do you want to open a window a little bit?

Because he's going to die of heat in here.

Just because I feel bad.

You're like

dying.

Okay, good.

Okay.

Maybe that will help you.

Okay, cool.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Appreciate that.

So,

coconut water, protein powder.

What kind of protein powder?

This vegan protein powder that I cannot remember the name of.

I'll have to text you to the picture.

So, protein powder,

psyllium, flax seed.

Good, good, good.

I put in these cocoa flavonoids, it's like a cocoa powder,

this green powder.

I also put in three raw egg yolks,

not the white.

You're not missing the red.

I'm not playing.

We're on the play, okay?

I love it.

I do that, and then I do vitamin C in there, vitamin C powder, and then vitamin B,

you know, like the liposomal.

I've said over years, I just figured it out.

You know, that works good for me.

And

then that's usually it.

And then uh you know do my do my supplements what's the okay what are the supplements oh man i

it's a lot that you have

okay but this is the part you have to tell me like there's no like you can't like

b12 ancestral supplements are you familiar with those actually i am a little bit yeah i started uh using those and it man they're great okay i don't know much i've heard of it so it's basically like um you know they they create the supplements from the cow what yes oh i thought this was something else no no no ancestral supplements are like they take all the different parts of the cow and they have a belief that you know like

heals like so if you're having liver problems then if you i've heard of you consume liver your liver is going to improve if you're needing a stronger heart if you eat hard it's going to improve wow you're doing this yeah so these supplements you know made by ancestral supplements uh you know there's a man the male one for men which i take and then they also have this thing called uh beef tallow which is pretty good and i you know we'll do that occasionally.

And, and they have, I mean, they have so many, you know, they have for prostate, they have them for, you know, the organs, fish eggs, all of it.

So

yeah, it's wild.

But

they put them in the pills.

Not like you're eating it wrong.

No, I know you're taking the pills.

Yeah, yeah.

So you're ordering, like, which ones are you taking?

I'm taking the male supplement.

The male supplement.

Okay, so what else are you taking?

So doing that,

zinc.

What else?

I'm just trying to go through my cabinet here.

Yeah, yeah.

Are you taking omega-3s?

I'm taking omega-3s.

Yes, yes.

Taking omega-3s, taking vitamin D for sure.

Taking 10,000 a day.

10,000 is a lot.

I know.

I know.

Wow.

Yes.

I'm taking 5,000.

I thought that was well, because sometimes, you know, you don't know how much your body absorbs and not.

But you can overdo it.

This is true, but you know, that 10 to 15 range is not.

Did someone give you this protocol or you just like figure this part out too?

Part of it is, I mean, I have worked with a nutritionist, you know, but this part of the most of the supplements are like me sorting out, like, okay, over the years of what I've tried, what really works for me?

Um, you know, and then there's a bunch of stuff I just can't remember all of it.

Like, take a picture and send it to me.

I will.

I want to see.

I will.

I told you about the NAD, though, you should take that and the True Niger.

I'm going to send you that too.

Okay, I can't wait.

Okay, tell me what else you do.

So, then after the protein shake and the supplements, while I'm doing that, I'm usually listening to

some sort of inspirational talk or podcast while I'm getting ready.

My podcast, obviously.

Obviously, you know,

it's like a no-brainer right there.

I love it.

Yeah.

And And then I get to work.

So

I have an office which is right down the street from my house.

And so that consists of sometimes I have

staff meetings with my film department or TV department or digital department.

I have meetings with my manager to get caught up on what's going on on the talent side.

Who's your manager?

Her name is Denora Pena.

She runs a company called Bodega 7.

She's fantastic.

Okay.

Yeah, we just started working together this year and she has a lot of great young up-and-coming clients and she's great.

The best.

What other clients does she have?

She has

competing against.

No, I'm just

a lot of social media influencers.

She also has some actors.

She also has, you know, Massey.

I can never pronounce her name.

Oh, yeah.

Mastya Riyabas.

I'm sorry, Massey.

Yes, yes.

So she manages Massey.

You know, a whole host of folks.

And so I'll do meetings with her.

You know, I'll do interviews depending on what's going on, you know, for, I mean, if I'm meeting with Netflix on something or meeting with another studio, I will have pitches that I'll be taking, you know, and developing for different projects that I'm doing on the film or the TV side.

So that'll mean me meeting with different writers and working on the pitch.

Or sometimes people want to pitch me projects.

So I'll listen to those.

I'll have a lunch usually at the Soho house with, you know, someone from the industry.

You know, yesterday I sat down with an executive friend of mine.

So it just depends.

And then do I know?

No.

Okay.

No.

And then in the afternoon, I have more meetings.

And then in the evening, it just depends.

Sometimes I'll get in a second workout.

Sometimes I'll have a dinner.

or sometimes I'll just go home and chill.

That sounds like, that's actually a great breakdown.

Do you, what do you eat for day?

You like, do you eat, what do you eat for dinner?

My dinner is, is all over the place.

It just, it, it depends.

Like, I, I try to eat when I'm hungry.

You know, so sometimes if I'm not hungry, that hungry at night, I might snack on some grapes or something like that, but I don't eat a big meal.

If I am hungry, then I'll, you know, try to do something like, you know, maybe I don't do a lot of meat.

You know, I'll do meat maybe like once a week-ish

because

one, it just keeps my skin.

When I eat a lot of meat, my skin is not clear.

Really?

Yeah.

You do have good skin, actually.

Thank you.

Do you drink a lot of water?

I drink a lot of water and I have a whole, that's a whole nother thing.

Do you have a whole regimen for your skin?

Of course you do.

Why wouldn't you?

It's like, duh.

Okay, so what?

Nose for news podcast.

That's today.

Jen's got a nose for news, boy.

I tell you.

Inquiring minds.

You've no idea.

I really want to know.

You've no idea.

I told you.

Like, I want to know.

I don't want this bullshit surface.

I love it.

I love it.

I want to know what you're doing for your skin, too.

I love it.

Oh, man.

That's like, you know, some of that has to do with, you know, one, just drinking water, reducing meat, and, you know, incorporating as much marine.

Genetics as a lot of it, actually.

This is true.

And then I have this tea tree oil soap, my carbon theory, which is just the best.

It's the best.

It just, I mean, I am am religious about it.

Really?

I've never heard of that one either.

Oh, my goodness.

Is it a guy thing or is it?

No, no, it's everybody thing.

They have it at,

they sometimes sell them at some Sephoras and they also sell them at Ulta Beauty.

And then you can get it online.

But, but it's fantastic.

And then Belief has a brand that focuses a lot on, you know, hydration and moisturizing.

And so I'll do the Aqua Bomb at night and then I'll do that moisturizer during the day.

Wow.

You have like a whole thing.

Got a whole thing.

Got a whole thing.

I love love it.

Got to do it.

Do you drink?

No.

At all?

Never.

Never.

Okay.

Is it because for health reasons or for religious reasons or for both?

It was family reasons because of my father.

That's what I figured.

Which is really the primary driver, not so much because of religion or not even so much because of health, just because of my father.

Yeah, you saw some bad stuff.

Yeah, yeah.

And ultimately, you know, what I've come to learn about alcohol, you know, it really,

it's not healthy.

You know, we all, I mean, people do it, but just in, you know, terms of what it does to our brain and what it does to our body, it's just not the best thing to have a regular practice of from what, you know, the research that I've done.

So, can I tell you something?

I, I'm not a drinker at all either.

I feel like it ages you too.

Even if it's just like, I think it's just, you know, even if you do it moderately, like, I think, like, I've never been that person to like drink two glasses of wine a night or a wine a night or whatever.

I feel like there's like that is like a, it's like a small, it's one of those things that make, it sounds so small, but it makes a big difference

over time accumulative.

Yep, from what I've seen.

So, yeah, no smoking, no drinking, none of that.

You're like super like straight, trying to live my best life.

You really are living your best life.

What are you?

Are you having any fun?

I'm trying.

What do you do for fun?

Oh, man.

What do I go to the movies?

You know, I love going to the movies.

I just started taking an improv class,

which was been great.

So much fun.

So much fun.

Just, you know, never done that before.

So I love doing that.

I love,

I just went to Costa Rica with my close friend, my buddies, and, you know, went hiking in the jungles and jumping off of cliffs.

Oh, that's so cool.

You know, so really being adventurous and being, you know, getting outdoors, I love doing that.

You know, I love spending time with my, with my aunts, you know, and my mom, you know, so I mean, literally, like my aunt Enos lives in LA.

And one of my favorite things to do is just go over Enis's house.

She's 85.

And we'll just sit back and eat and talk and, you know, just catch up.

You know, you're such a sweet pee.

Who do?

I mean, I would never have thought this was you.

Here I am.

Oh, my gosh.

Well, by the way, I have no idea how long I've been even talking to you.

I don't even.

It's been like, I think it's been like two hours, poor guy.

We've done two episodes.

I think we've done, yeah, we have, but that's okay for me anyway.

But I probably kept you way too long.

How do people like find more information about you and or where do they find you?

Yeah, you can audible.

They can find me on at my website, devonfranklin.com.

I'm also on Instagram at Devon Franklin, on Twitter at Devon Franklin, and then Facebook at at Devon Franklin.

Not TikTok?

You know, I think I have a TikTok that my team handles, but I just haven't done it.

I just haven't got on it yet.

You know, I'm just like, okay, of all the things that I have going on, right?

That's one that you're going to be doing.

I'm like, unless there's a real purpose behind it, you know, I just haven't.

I haven't focused on it.

Let me put it that way.

Okay.

How about YouTube?

Are you doing that?

We have a presence on YouTube, but it's not what it needs to be.

Yeah.

You're too busy.

There's a lot going on.

A lot going on.

Wow.

Well, thank you.

I'm so happy that Torre like got, you know, recommended.

I intended you and came here.

Like, really, this was so fun.

It was great.

Thank you.

No, I'm serious.

I really like talking to you.

Me too.

Like what?

This was very, you're, you were much different than I thought you were going to be.

And you know what's interesting?

Most people say that.

And so, you know, I'm like, okay, what, what am I putting out?

I don't know, but I'm trying to change it.

So I love interviews like this.

They give me a chance to, you know.

You're so likable.

I feel this is you're very like Torre-like in a way.

I like that.

It's quite a compliment.

I love him, as you know.

And like, I feel like this was very similar where I didn't know him at all.

Oh, wow.

Right.

Like, Demetri, who I work with, was like, was a big fan of his.

She's like, you have to have Torre Roberts, blah, blah.

I'm like, oh, God, okay, fine.

And I had him on.

And I like, oh, no, I'm being totally serious.

I don't, I don't, like, mince words.

Yeah.

And I,

I'm like, I loved him.

He's the best.

He's like my favorite.

He's my brother.

He is the best.

And like, I feel the same with you.

I didn't really know who you were.

And I was like, oh, I wonder who this guy is.

You come on here.

And like, it was just, you have such a beautiful spirit and a beautiful personality.

And you seem so genuine and nice.

I don't know why I thought in my head that you would be kind of a dick.

I don't know why.

I don't know why.

I don't know why.

You're the opposite.

I don't know either.

So people, don't just look at his cute smile and think, you know, he's actually your very, this is very, very, and I mean that in the nicest way because you're so cute.

And like, I thought, like, ah, God, he's going to be a player.

That's what I really thought.

But you're not at all.

You're literally the opposite.

No, no.

The opposite.

No, no.

You're just so, like, so nice and so good.

So, thank you for being on the podcast.

Thank you.

Thanks for being here.

That was back very strange when it's okay.

It's all good.

I received that because I knew your intent.

I felt the intention.

My intention was good.

That's right.

It was great.

Okay, good.

Well, thank you.

Thank you for having me.

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