Transform Your Life with Simple Embodied Awakening Techniques | EP 61

Speaker 1 We're not either one personality ego, like I am anxious, oh, I should try not to be anxious, oh, let me meditate to not be anxious, or the other side of it is, oh, there's nobody here that's anxious, there actually is no self.

Speaker 1 So the middle one is to realize, oh, part of me is anxious.

Speaker 1 If you wake up, you have to continue to grow up. And if you're growing up, at some point you reach a level where you have a strong, healthy ego, you have to wake up even from that.

Speaker 1 Because the emotions and the tenderness and the sensitivity and the healing of everyday trauma, which we all have, requires something greater than our small self.

Speaker 1 And so waking up for me is a developmental stage. So it's not just an esoteric thing that's for the Olympic athletes of meditation or you have to go off, join a monastery or live in a cave.

Speaker 2 For different learning styles, maybe we could try a few glimpses and then we'll do more of an IFS one.

Speaker 1 Let's do one where we're going to go from head to heart space.

Speaker 2 Today I'm joined by a dear friend of mine, La Kelly, who's an award-winning author. He's a spiritual teacher and a fellow psychotherapist.
And we're going to unpack the different levels of awakening.

Speaker 2 He's got a beautiful framework, but also give you embodied inquiries so that you can experience what you are while you are actually diving into this episode.

Speaker 2 He's going to unpack different levels of consciousness, sharing his map so that you don't get stuck in misunderstandings on the path of awakening, but also on the podcast, you're going to get some of his glimpses practices, which are embodied inquiries.

Speaker 2 So you can not just know it, but live it more fully from the episode. I hope that you enjoy it.

Speaker 2 Locke, I am so happy to finally have you on the podcast. Welcome, welcome.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 1 It's so great to be with you here and to be with you and your audience and talk about whatever you want to talk about.

Speaker 2 we're this is like an advanced training and embodiment exploration of embodied awakening and so just to start us off because i know we're going to go conceptual and experiential which i love talk to us because i think people have different definitions of what awakening means can we start with defining what awakening is so that we're on the same page Yes.

Speaker 1 And so when I talk about awakening similar to you, I talk about waking up and growing up. So in some ways, as Ken Wilber said, they go together.

Speaker 1 And that's one thing I've been with the waking-up crowd, and I've been with the growing-up crowd doing a psychology degree and working inpatient, psychiatric, and outpatient in Brooklyn mental health, and then going off to India and studying with some wonderful meditation teachers.

Speaker 1 And then just being enthralled, being just like, oh my God, this is real and this works and this makes my life so much better, but I need both.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because you can be totally awake to the your true nature and have a disintegrated life and you could be having this like really like controlled and put together life and be unawake to the truth of who and what you are so yes yes yeah and this is why i i kind of do this uh these stages or because people get caught halfway or they they get stuck in the initial awakening um

Speaker 1 they awake up from a kind of ego-centered feeling of who they are but then they stop at a either a pure awareness or no-self or a kind of like, oh, I'm free of that.

Speaker 1 And then this part takes over that's kind of like an adolescent,

Speaker 1 oh, everything's relative. I can just do what I want.
And we all know the stories of how many gurus and teachers who had, you know, initial awakenings. I've actually worked with them.

Speaker 1 Certainly, I've worked with a lot of people who were hurt by them and helped them with their trauma.

Speaker 1 But I've also with about five different teachers who acted out physically, violently, emotionally, with money, with sex, with drugs.

Speaker 1 And it's just like the curiosity of like, well, what happened? And so in some ways, I'll just say as we get back to our main topic here,

Speaker 1 in some ways, you can,

Speaker 1 if you wake up, you have to continue to grow up. And if you're growing up, at some point you reach a level where you have a strong, healthy ego.
You have to wake up even from that. That's right.

Speaker 1 Because even a strong, healthy ego cannot bear a fully emotional human life.

Speaker 1 Because the emotions and the tenderness and the sensitivity and the healing of everyday trauma, which we all have, requires something greater than our small self.

Speaker 1 And so waking up for me is a developmental stage. So it's not just an esoteric thing that's for the Olympic athletes of meditation or you have to go off, join a monastery or live in a cave.

Speaker 1 That my hope and what I've seen with thousands now of people is it's possible in the midst of any daily life to learn some tools.

Speaker 1 And if you're dedicated and consistent, it's just like a stage of developments, like a school age.

Speaker 1 stage of

Speaker 1 or being in therapy for some years. And then it literally the view of you from where you're looking from and from where you're aware from and what is

Speaker 1 supporting you just

Speaker 1 is what all spiritualities and religions are talking about. And yet we can put it in fairly simple, common language, and anybody can use any language they want.
But the experience of

Speaker 1 shifting out of this small thought-based, I think, therefore I am,

Speaker 1 or what people call ego identity, or small self, whatever that is, that feeling of where are you listening to me from right now.

Speaker 1 So, one of the keys in bringing it together is that ego center is an ego function and doesn't need to be killed or gotten rid of. It's not ultimately an illusion,

Speaker 1 it's a helpful part of us, but it's exhausted. Yeah, it's a part of us, not the whole of us.

Speaker 2 Not the whole of us.

Speaker 1 That's right.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I love that you, because we want healthy, integrated egos.
Like, that's important. And I love that you're talking about this as being a development.
And

Speaker 2 I'll share this before we can, just to give people context, because I love your framework. I know the work goes deeper, and we'll talk about the high level and go a little bit deeper.

Speaker 2 So you talk about waking up, which is like, oh, I'm more than my body and my mind. That's like the initial, like Adia Shanti talks about the first kiss of awakening.
Like it's like, oh, wow.

Speaker 2 And I know we originally met through Adia's community, but this first, this first awakening of like waking up out

Speaker 2 of and beyond being identified with a body mind.

Speaker 2 And then this waking down and how I experience it as a somatic psychotherapist is like embodying like, oh, I'm not just a body mind, but I have a body mind, like I'm coming back into body, transcending body, knowing I'm more than it.

Speaker 2 And then waking out, which is awakened doing, enlightened living. And that's the conversation that I want to go deeper into here.

Speaker 2 But before we go into some of those, I would love just to hear conceptually how you hold those. And then later we'll go into an experience of them.

Speaker 1 Sure. Yeah.
And we'll do a couple of what I call glimpses, which are.

Speaker 1 which is the way that in the midst of your life, you can literally learn to navigate your own consciousness

Speaker 1 using technology that is, in some ways, some of the more advanced non-dual meditation practices of Dzogchen and Mahamudra and these other that have these simple moves once you know the territory.

Speaker 1 So, the territory is everyday mind is what we walk around in, everyday mind and body, that we're trying our best to survive.

Speaker 1 So, like, really, a lot of protective parts of us, our main, you know, survive and thrive is our

Speaker 1 motivation for any animal that we are, right? And then we develop school age, we secondary process thinking, where we have to be independent as we grow up.

Speaker 1 From first, we're dependent on our parents and we're just responding. And then we have to be independent.
We develop an ego function, which knows how to just crawl around.

Speaker 1 And now we have to have an identity that says, what, you know, what do I need to do? Where do I live?

Speaker 1 And it starts to create this thinking-centered I, which is an important function.

Speaker 1 But who is that all occurring to? So, the premise of this throughout the world, what's been called awakening in all these traditions, is this is there is already here this awakeness within all of us.

Speaker 1 Many people call being or inter-being, is what Thich Nhat Hanh called it, or

Speaker 1 presence,

Speaker 1 consciousness itself, prior to personality, but with personality.

Speaker 1 So it's the ocean that arises as a wave of our uniqueness, and you're a wave, and I'm a wave, but we're really a little bit more the ocean than the individual wave.

Speaker 1 So that finding that dimension, which often is initially found almost as the sky before it becomes the ocean. So let me just say that there's a kind of a

Speaker 1 physical identification of and then a mental identification. So it becomes almost like we're a cloud of sensations.

Speaker 1 And then rather than fixing the cloud, which we do with psychology and even some spiritual practices, just calm the body, fix the symptoms, and then we're kind of a calmer ego.

Speaker 1 But there's an existential dissatisfaction underneath because our identity isn't truly who we are.

Speaker 1 So there's always this, no matter how calm and how many people I've met in New York who like, I've got everything going for me. I've got family, friends, success, life.
I do meditation. I eat well.

Speaker 1 I got a diet. I got like, and there's something missing.
Yes. Like, what is this? Yeah.

Speaker 1 And this is what this is: that there is this dimension, and it's often, you know, religious language has been the tradition, but then you can be spiritual, but not religious.

Speaker 1 And now you can be consciousness and/or any of the other combination. So there is this awake,

Speaker 1 aware consciousness like the sky that's alert.

Speaker 1 And if you just open to the space in the room

Speaker 1 and just then be aware of the space as the space, the background awareness,

Speaker 1 and then come back, include the cloud. So step out of the cloud into the sky, recognize you're also the sky, and then come back.

Speaker 1 You're not spacing out or spiritually bypassing, you're coming right back.

Speaker 1 But now you're aware from this non-thought dimension that ultimately is what the most highly functional, happy people call being in flow consciousness.

Speaker 1 So, with open eyes, the fifth level of mind that we're going to is what I call awake-loving flow.

Speaker 1 So, it has this awakeness, it has this love, this heart, but then it's operating without trusting that thought, sensation, emotion is available within our consciousness that already knows how to walk and talk and

Speaker 1 create and relate.

Speaker 1 And then you can respond. So that waking up from discovering some kind of

Speaker 1 new mind, which I call a wake-aware mind.

Speaker 1 So you're aware of it and then as it. but then pretty quickly you realize you can't stay in the pure awareness for more than a few seconds.

Speaker 1 You can stay in it as a meditation, but as soon as you're aware of anything, you either have to go back to the mind to use attention, or you have to come from kind of a mindful witness consciousness, which is disembodied.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think it's important to hear that. That it's a stage that sort of like witnessing consciousness is the waking up.
That's a stage, though.

Speaker 2 There's more than that, because some people get in Buddhism, they call it drunk on emptiness. Like it's getting stuck in I am awareness, but that's really duality.

Speaker 2 That there's awareness and then everything else. So, thank you.
I just wanted to double-click on what you're saying here because I think a lot of people get stuck there.

Speaker 1 Yes, yeah, and that's a lot of why I kind of talk about these levels. I'm just trying to say, like, keep going, come on, keep going, yeah, yeah, like that's good, but check out this.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, it's even better, but don't stay there, come on home, you know, like you come back from that pure awareness, which a lot of people establish as I'm awake, I'm only pure awareness, everything else is illusion.

Speaker 1 Whereas this is saying, no, in this more Buddhist non-duality, that

Speaker 1 pure awareness is

Speaker 1 the same, is not separate from the relative everyday appearances, thoughts, feelings, sensations.

Speaker 1 And when those two feel together, there's this unity mind, or what a lot of people experience when they do psychedelics. And they experience a kind of

Speaker 1 a oneness or a feeling of like, oh, everything's the same as me. Like, I'm the tree, and the tree is, you know, they get

Speaker 1 a hit of that almost, you know, extreme form of a peak experience of this, that when we walk around in more of a unity mind, you just feel like everything's friendly, like there's not a threat

Speaker 1 from anything because you're not in the survival mode. of the brain.
You feel like you can respond. And then you start to feel this heart mind,

Speaker 1 which is kind of an embracing feeling in IFS. They call it self and self-leadership, where you start to lead from self with a capital S rather than small self,

Speaker 1 or true nature or being

Speaker 1 or

Speaker 1 presence, whatever. This sense of who you are now can be aware of parts that are both the manager, the judge, and the critic can come in, like, what are you doing? You're going to lose this.

Speaker 1 You go, oh, thank you for sharing. That's

Speaker 1 or the shame-based parts start to come up. And this is the only dimension that can bear what seemed to be unbearable.

Speaker 2 Let's unpack that because I think sometimes when people are deepening in presence or feeling more regulated than their nervous system, some of the stuff, those parts of ourselves or the stuff that we've repressed, start coming up, and they think they're going backwards.

Speaker 2 When really, it's just you know that this part of you feels safe enough for that to actually process.

Speaker 2 I mean, this is some of the deepest coaching or therapy that I know to hold and help people wake back up to who they are.

Speaker 2 And everything, as it meets the presence of what you are, dissolves and integrates in such a powerful way. So I just want to give that to people because they might be thinking, you know,

Speaker 2 this is worse. It's like, no, this is just what's been repressed and it's now starting to thaw out and integrate.

Speaker 1 Yeah, beautiful. Yeah.
That, so yeah, exactly. Thaw out.
Those are the kind of the good phrases just that you're gonna thaw out, you've been frozen, or you're gonna detox because you've been agitated.

Speaker 1 You've been filled with agitation and kind of feels like toxic, and you have to detox that, or if you've shut down, you're more frozen.

Speaker 1 So, this is the whole, the whole picture is the fully, you know, fully infinite and intimate, the, you know, the divine and the human, the sacred and the human being,

Speaker 1 the human and the being.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's two words, right? Yeah, that's right. They go together.

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Speaker 2 I love that you've got this map of consciousness so that people don't get stuck in these cul-de-sacs.

Speaker 2 on you know as as you know there's like different schools of thought of like spontaneous awakening and prepare and yes and you know like there's grace and

Speaker 2 what's most important is to to really I think you and I align with doing both the psychological and the spiritual like really honoring a deeper truth I'm curious just given that you've worked with so many people over the years are there particular misconceptions or cul-de-sacs that people get stuck in that you can highlight so that they wake up out of these perceived limitations.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And in some ways, it's kind of like saying, Look, these are normal cul-de-sacs.
Like,

Speaker 1 don't get too worried about them. Because if you go step by step, here's what they are.
And here's where you can set up camp. You can set up camp.

Speaker 1 And sometimes they're a little bit better, but they end up kind of getting thin or wearing out like a little, or you have to hold them together. You've heard of the

Speaker 1 spiritual bypass, of course,

Speaker 1 John Welbutt. So I talk about the intellectual overpass, which is kind of like

Speaker 1 people who read a lot of spiritual books and

Speaker 1 try to, as soon as they get an insight experientially,

Speaker 1 their intellect grabs it. Oh, I got it now.
Now I understand that I'm one with everything. It's like, well, come on back down to where you feel it.

Speaker 1 And then there's actually the psychological underpass, which is people who only do psychological work and never realize there's something greater than themselves.

Speaker 2 Yeah, always healing, kind of stuck in the cold design of always healing. I am somebody that is deficient.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And they don't quite let themselves discover that which is greater than the ego. Because in some ways, that's the kind of radical premise of both these systems.

Speaker 2 That's the medicine. And also just for that, to that part, I do think that there's wisdom in this part of us that doesn't feel good enough.
My experience, that was my core story.

Speaker 2 And psychologically, that was the story, but it was a gift to wake up spiritually to who I am beyond the story of good enough or not good enough.

Speaker 2 And so it's like when you're identified with a small self, of course, you're not going to feel good enough because it's not the whole of you. And so

Speaker 2 emotionally, welcoming the part of you that doesn't feel good enough helps you ironically wake up to, or even feeling the part that doesn't feel good enough fully by allowing it.

Speaker 2 helps you wake up to the whole. And so these can be doorways, but there are nuggets in these misconceptions or parts, these patterns in us that have us suffer if we go deeper into it spiritually.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Beautiful.
Because I would say that's the first like insight or misconception that becomes an insight is that we're not either a one personality ego, like I am anxious.

Speaker 1 Oh, I should try not to be anxious. Oh, let me meditate to not be anxious.
Or the other side of it is, oh, there's nobody here that's anxious. There actually is no self,

Speaker 1 which is, there's just

Speaker 1 movement of energy and stories. There's just stories just appearing and coming and going.
There's nobody here. So the middle one is to realize, oh, part of me is anxious.

Speaker 1 Oh, there is a part of me that's anxious. Okay, let me see where is that part in or around my body and literally locate it.
Like, oh, it's this part is like grabbing me by the throat.

Speaker 1 you know, it's like, all right, can you thank this part for trying to help you? So there's the next radical thing.

Speaker 1 So rather than saying, you know, the judge is bad and, you know, stop, you know, being angry at the ego and

Speaker 1 judging the judge, you know. Yeah.
And then judging the judge for judging the judge, you know. It's another layer of judgment.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You actually start in this kind of parts-based internal family systems

Speaker 1 approach by saying there's no bad parts.

Speaker 1 And so you start to appreciate your

Speaker 1 intention of even the mean part in you, the rageful part, is trying trying to help you intentionally now it can act out and do negative things you may have noticed

Speaker 1 but we could talk about that later but there's a positive intention in it there's a positive intention especially when you start with it internally when it starts to talk and that that part isn't just a thought or even a story or a belief it's it's a thought feeling sensation that thinks it's an identity thinks it's you so that's what a part is it's just a different approach.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it sneaks up and looks out of your eyes and says, I,

Speaker 1 I am anxious. I am worried.
I am, I can't believe that this person and then that makes me feel this way. And so it keeps saying I, but you realize as soon as you can locate it

Speaker 1 and thank it and appreciate it's trying to help because it's protective. It's a protective part.
It's a managing part. It's trying to survive.
It's a survival strategy.

Speaker 1 Then you can ask it for some space and then you step out or drop down to your heart or step out to be aware of it from

Speaker 1 another part of you. And then you can actually open up to be aware of both that mindful witness and your awake-aware mind that's interconnected with it and that has naturally unconditional...

Speaker 1 love and understanding.

Speaker 2 And that's what integrates it into the nervous system.

Speaker 1 And that's what integrates it. And that's what has capacity to bear, like, you know, rage and terror and are just not or too big for any ego

Speaker 1 that has been held down from normal, just life and energy of being a full human being. You got to have energy.

Speaker 1 And if you, you know, move it up another channel to be really nice or to be really productive or workaholic or whatever that is, it'll

Speaker 1 go through that line of

Speaker 1 energy. But if you let let it

Speaker 1 kind of

Speaker 1 steam off,

Speaker 1 you get more space for it. That's the key.
You have more space and not spaced out. More space in and out.
You're the sky on the cloud. And then it starts to self-liberate.

Speaker 1 And you start to appreciate what its motivation is, and you unburden it from its belief. That's where the story comes in.

Speaker 1 You unburden it from this story that, oh, I need to do this because of what what I was doing when I was five years old.

Speaker 2 Or because then I think I'll be loved and accepted and safe, essentially.

Speaker 2 Like I've sort of mapped it as well, where it's like any of these people-pleasing, self-doubt, perfectionism, it just underneath wants to belong and be accepted so that then it feels safe.

Speaker 2 So it always goes back to safety survival.

Speaker 2 This is exactly what we do in my certification program: training coaches on mentally, emotionally, behaviorally, somatically, unconsciously.

Speaker 2 Like everything you're sharing is, I feel so proud of this work because this is, this is the deepest coaching and the deepest therapy that I know, helping wake people up to the truth of their being, which is the liberating presence that sets it free.

Speaker 2 And so I love what you're sharing. And I also know one of the most important parts of my own path was.

Speaker 2 you know, the distinction between local awareness and non-local awareness, this like knowing beyond the mind. Can you unpack this for us? Because, and again, this is advanced.

Speaker 2 So if people are listening, they're like, what? This is some advanced spiritual embodied exploration. And so just, you know, we'll also get to some embodied experiences.

Speaker 2 So for those that orient less conceptually and orient more kinesthetically, we're about to get there.

Speaker 1 So hang in there.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I'll just follow up what you said about, you know, because the problem is, and the natural human condition is trying to find safety and survival, surviving and thriving.

Speaker 1 So it wants to survive, but it also positively wants to thrive. It wants to, you know, and even desire,

Speaker 1 it's not bad. Desire is thriving.
I want to get, I want to connect, I want to, but then it gets addictive or it gets and survive. So the key becomes: where do you find the new safety?

Speaker 1 So when you go to this pure awareness, and then it is what's called same taste or unity mind or embodied presence,

Speaker 1 the feeling is of a ground. You feel grounded and safe.

Speaker 1 And now the key to embodied action is you've got to trust being flow.

Speaker 1 You've got to act. You can't go up, back up to say, okay, now I'm going to do something.
So I better think about what I'm going to do.

Speaker 1 You stay home and you have to get like this, like when you're in a flow, when you do a sport or a dance or something athletic or music, you play music, listen to music, play with children, gardening, all these activities that people enter to be in this flow,

Speaker 1 the same principles apply,

Speaker 1 but you can just do it anywhere, even on a subway in New York City. You can feel safe, you drop, open, and include.

Speaker 1 You feel the safety and then you respond. You look out of the eyes of your heart almost, like you're really kind of

Speaker 1 home and trusting that the information from the office of your head is coming down to to your heart, mind, and your kind of boundless heart.

Speaker 1 And that, you know, that's the feeling of

Speaker 1 this potential that isn't so far away. You know, it sounds like, oh, wow, well, there's certainly parts of us like, oh, that's good for him.
He went to India, but I'll never do it.

Speaker 1 You know, so anybody who recognizes those parts, like, don't let that party party. That's a part.
That's right. There's going to be a doubting part.
There's going to be a trying part.

Speaker 1 And that's how we start is often by saying, okay, let's find the parts that are going to protecting us from doing going to the next level.

Speaker 1 They're just saying, look, we're safe by staying just as we are. They're trying hard and they're doubting and they're, you know, shame-based.
I'll never do it. It's for everyone else.

Speaker 1 I'm not good enough. If only I do this first, then it'll be okay.
No, how about now? That's right.

Speaker 2 That's right.

Speaker 1 You're here. It's there.
The premise, as you say, of local awareness and awake awareness is that

Speaker 1 when we do these glimpses, which are these practices that can be done any time of day,

Speaker 1 and that's the thing. You can do them sitting in the morning, you can do it before and then sit, or you can sit and then do them.
You can do them.

Speaker 1 One of the favorite places is hit the snooze alarm in bed.

Speaker 1 Give yourself five minutes. Like, don't even get up and meditate.

Speaker 1 Just like you're in the sleep state, you come into the liminal state, and you hit the snooze alarm, roll over, and either listen to or like a glimpse or do a glimpse

Speaker 1 and then get out, get a, get out of bed. Yeah, let's experience them.

Speaker 2 Let's do it. Let's do it.
Yeah. So for different learning styles, maybe we could try a few glimpses and then we'll do more of an IFS one.

Speaker 1 Okay, let's do one where we're going to go from head to heart space. Okay, so this shows local awareness and what's called spacious awareness or effortless awareness.

Speaker 1 So the premise is, so you just have to have have a premise. It's like an experiment.

Speaker 1 It's not, you don't have to believe anything. You just have to try, have a beginner's mind, but it's a different hypothesis.
And then we do the experiment and then you report the results. That's all.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 no pressure. So the premise is that the awake consciousness is already here within us.
It's not thought-based. It can move your hand and it can use thought.

Speaker 1 And it can put your hand down and it can put thought down and remain alert.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 if, but where we are in our survival mode is in this negativity bias of the brain, projecting worst-case scenarios from the past into the future and scanning for danger. And

Speaker 1 so in that location,

Speaker 1 awareness, awake awareness is just identified or attached or blended. It can unhook.
and decenter and drop.

Speaker 1 So it's blended and the whole field field is available, but it's a cloud, it's in the cloud, can drop below the cloud and come into your body. And you can feel your body directly from within.

Speaker 1 I've had ballerinas and yoga teachers crying, saying, Oh my God, I felt my body for the first time from within, because they were using it like a like it was a thing, appendage that they could move.

Speaker 1 But literally, the first feeling is you're aware of your body from within, and then you go to this safe space somewhere below your neck. Some people find it here.

Speaker 1 Some people feel it in their whole body, and then you're just aware of it. You're aware behind, within, and in front.
So we'll try that. So that's the premise.
So you won't know how to do it.

Speaker 1 So when I'm the radical thing is, I'm not talking to you, the personality or the doer. I'm talking to you, the awake consciousness.
Hello. Nice to meet you.
Introduce yourself to yourself.

Speaker 1 And then somehow you, the awake consciousness, since you're going to want to live this life, why not start now by unhooking yourself from being identified and just drop down, come home?

Speaker 1 Yeah, how's that sound? So just simply be aware of listening to my words and hearing

Speaker 1 what I'm saying and noticing that your hearings happening in your head and you're maybe have a part that's preparing, wondering if you're going to do it right.

Speaker 1 And then simply just feel as if awareness is identified. Somehow, this awareness, like a bubble, invisible bubble, can simply unhook and decenter and drop down.

Speaker 1 So you're aware of your jaw, your smile from your drawn smile. And then feel as if this bubble, some people feel like it's an invisible elevator or like an invisible leaf.

Speaker 1 It just moves down to your throat or your neck and then

Speaker 1 see the key is just don't look up to thought and don't look down from attention that you literally you're directly perceiving the effervescent aliveness the space

Speaker 1 and the awareness from within your throat and then let your awareness drop below your neck into your upper body

Speaker 1 and then just feel your upper body directly from within just like you almost take a little deeper breath and let out a sigh.

Speaker 1 So we let it

Speaker 1 center down. So now your head is like your feet.
It's still part of you, but it's no longer the center. Your feet aren't the center, and your head's not the center.

Speaker 1 So you're now looking for a safe space that people say, this is me, like your heart mind,

Speaker 1 heart space, and see if you can go subtler and subtler.

Speaker 1 And now just go

Speaker 1 into the awake space within the cells, within the atoms, into this heart space.

Speaker 1 And just rest almost like you're received

Speaker 1 in this open

Speaker 1 presence.

Speaker 1 And then just being aware of the heart space.

Speaker 1 It's like you're aware from the heart space

Speaker 1 inside, and maybe even you can feel behind you and notice that awareness has your back.

Speaker 1 The local awareness can open behind you to discover this field of awareness that's always been there without your help and now is coming forward mixed with aliveness in your body like a wave and then kind of feeling interconnected from your heart space out

Speaker 1 and any thoughts and emotions can come down

Speaker 1 like Wi-Fi from the office of your head, just staying home, sweet home, in your heart.

Speaker 1 And it's not your emotional heart or your heart chakra or your physical heart. It's another center.
Some people need to go kind of behind and below their emotional heart to get here.

Speaker 1 So here is another

Speaker 1 view and another location.

Speaker 1 to be aware from.

Speaker 2 It's beautiful. Yeah.

Speaker 2 There's like, there's less of the top heavy. It's just really sinking deeper and there's more presence.
It feels more natural, less hypervigilance in the mind orientation.

Speaker 2 And I know that part of kind of this unhooking, dropping back down and in, right? Because it's no longer this like looking from the head down.

Speaker 1 That's it.

Speaker 2 It's back, awareness back, like notice what's noticing, like just stepping back and then down and in. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So you're getting out of that that

Speaker 1 thoughts going to thought going to going to scan for danger eyes head and then

Speaker 1 you're stepping out of that

Speaker 2 but you're not spacing out this way you're coming coming into the space within and this would be nice to do every hour or so just as a way to reprogram this kind of hypervigilance in the mind especially for more conceptual types that there's an intelligence i remember actually, you stayed at our house, our old house, and around that time, I love these experiences and like testing of things because I remember testing how intelligence is this presence.

Speaker 2 Like, does it really need the mind? My mind, the mind that was like, hold that part was holding on, thinking, you really need me.

Speaker 1 So I explored.

Speaker 2 I'm like, well, what happens if I really just live from this heart-based awareness? And the moment I needed something, it would come into my conscious mind. But I can't tell somebody that.

Speaker 2 that you have to run your own experiment to find out if that's true. As soon as I was leaving the house, it was like keys.

Speaker 2 I was like, oh, just these little things that I thought I needed the mind to tell me it just weren't true. And I needed to find that out for myself.
So I love these experiences for people.

Speaker 2 Will you share us an embodied IFS emotion-based glimpse?

Speaker 1 Yes. Yeah, I can do a couple more quick little glimpses because they're so short.
And that's the thing.

Speaker 1 So the thing about that one, too, is the intelligence of that and the trust, like you're saying, that

Speaker 1 and particularly

Speaker 1 the automatic thoughts, which is chattering mind,

Speaker 1 do not have to be listened to. They can move to the background.
So they're still there. They're still mental sensations like sensations in your hands, but you don't have to check with them.

Speaker 1 You start to trust if, oh, remember your keys comes up. It comes up usually from a part.
which is different than mental chatter.

Speaker 1 That's one of the habits that when we're in our head we think because thoughts are going by they must be important so we have this habit of like oh what is that oh what's that oh i remember that oh that reminds me of that so as soon as you get out of that you start to realize which is what tai chi masters and martial artists do is they they're safer physically emotionally by

Speaker 1 being soft and open and not mentally like a guard at a

Speaker 2 and i want to speak to this because i know a lot of women don't feel safe moving through the world. And there was a time where we, in one of our homes, we got robbed.

Speaker 2 And I walked into the room and I could, because there was so much presence on board, it was not from the fear-based mind. I could smell somebody else's detergent.
Like that's how, how tuned in I was.

Speaker 2 I had even had a margarita going somewhere else, but this like awake, aware presence was very alive. And I walk into my bedroom and I could feel something was off, like somebody had had been there.

Speaker 2 And then I smelt a laundry detergent that wasn't ours. And I said, let's look at the cameras.
And it wasn't from fear.

Speaker 2 And so this was a test and a confirmation that presence will keep me, me safe, the body safe, much better than the fear-based mind, that hypervigilance.

Speaker 2 And so, you know, I would just encourage people to test this, that it is intelligent. It will show up in the moments how it's needed most.
And there wasn't fear in that.

Speaker 2 It was just like, oh, it was like the next most intelligent step was obvious. So as a woman, you know, I know I'm a woman and I'm more than a woman.

Speaker 1 Yes, yeah. And that's so important because the awakeness has to be safe and it has to be functional.
And it has to actually be more intelligent, meaning optimally responsive and active, right? Right.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so that's why it's a developmental stage is because is to get exactly what you're saying. You've got to get the trust to try it and then you've got to confirm the experiment.

Speaker 1 Oh, I was actually more aware and less, even though I wasn't scanning everything and being, you know, looking at everything as I walked in, I just was open and then, oh, there's the information.

Speaker 2 That's right. Yeah.
And it feels so nourishing in the nervous system. Just in terms of health and longevity, I know a lot of, you know, spiritual teachers look young.

Speaker 2 And I think this is why they're less in this like reptilian, fear-based consciousness and that's there's nothing wrong with it right but we're waking up beyond it we're we're including that to experience the safety of our being yes that's right i'm 120 thank you for saying i look well

Speaker 1 you look great

Speaker 1 so so so take it now do when you do this dropping from head to heart space you know and certainly there's a bunch of ways to listen to it uh in a on a phone and take while you're walking, like while you're walking in nature, it's like

Speaker 1 your being takes your body for a walk or your heart takes your,

Speaker 1 it's like, oh, wow, you just start to really get this feeling that's even more like flowy and like a cat. You become like a,

Speaker 1 and you're just connected to nature and you're feeling

Speaker 1 so it's um it's quite a little shift.

Speaker 1 And again, it's like literally once you get it, you don't even, you know, you listen to somebody lead you through it, then you lead yourself through it, then you don't even need words.

Speaker 1 So, so this is the, I don't, you know, for those on the podcast, this is not so good, but yeah, for those not watching,

Speaker 2 I love it because I'm a kinesthetic learner. So, for those who are kinesthetic, watch it on YouTube because I'm I feel that.
So, thank you for doing that. Yeah, we're using it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I do a lot of that, you know, for that group. So, I'm doing like,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 and then, you know, this kind of heart thing like this. And then,

Speaker 1 you know, so that you get

Speaker 1 that feeling. So let's do this short one,

Speaker 1 which is a little more out. So that's an inner door.
Here's an outer door. And then we'll do an IFS door too.
So the outer door is...

Speaker 1 Again, we'll go back to this

Speaker 1 survive and thrive as the primary. So then the smart

Speaker 1 thrive and survive is the manager, which we take to be me, and certainly this part. It's basically becomes a problem solver.
So it's very nice. It's very like, oh, I'm just checking for problems.

Speaker 1 Are there any problems out here? Are there any problems in here? There are any problems out there. Are there any problems in here? And it binds it in this scanning.

Speaker 1 for to the past, projecting to the future. And if that problem solver could relax,

Speaker 1 could we discover that both outside and within here, there's this alert, awareness-based, non-thought-based, safe presence?

Speaker 1 That's the premise is to, for me to say an inquiry to you, eyes open or closed, no big deal. And then you'll understand the words, but then look with awareness, with local awareness.

Speaker 1 to see what's here inside and out that's not a thought, that's not the problem solver. Yeah, so that's the setup, and here's the inquiry.
So, what's here now

Speaker 1 when there's no problem to solve?

Speaker 1 So, just now,

Speaker 1 if the problem solver just relaxes,

Speaker 1 steps back,

Speaker 1 what's this

Speaker 1 that you're aware of

Speaker 1 and what's this that you're aware as

Speaker 1 just for a glimpse and then what's the relationship between this kind of open

Speaker 1 spacious pervasive awareness that's alert does it have to go to thought to be

Speaker 1 smart and responsive

Speaker 1 And then what's the relationship with the sky-like awareness to

Speaker 1 the vibration, sensation, emotion, thoughts, feelings, your body, and the room.

Speaker 1 If it's more

Speaker 1 same taste,

Speaker 1 there's not two things going on.

Speaker 1 What's this?

Speaker 2 This happens oftentimes looking into Emilio's eyes, my husband, it feels like this painting that gets smeared and everything gets blurry and there's no, not even connection, right?

Speaker 1 it's just one experience it's beautiful yeah kind of unity unity of mind yeah and then you know and then you can tune it in a little clearer but stay in the the less left brain so some of it's left brain right brain too because we're so left brain and left brain is very much about discerning and labeling and and even a lot of meditation systems will label and look at that and name that and and notice that and and it's like well if you see the right brain will see everything at once and so you can have both of them on and drop into actually the third which is awake mind or heart mind or unity mind whichever of those

Speaker 1 and then left and brain and right brain work

Speaker 2 as functional tools rather than going to left brain to be safe yeah yeah i like that you said as and from it's like relative and non-relative like yes and you fall

Speaker 2 and it's so nourishing. It is so nourishing.

Speaker 2 The thing that I am most interested in is living clearly from here, like as, you know, it's like as is always, but just more consciously from this, even when doing very head-mind-based things.

Speaker 2 I don't know if there's a story or specific practices of like that waking out third stage of like, it's not, you know, because I used to think I needed to stabilize and I would always check like, oh, wait, it's here.

Speaker 2 It's here. That was an important stage.
And

Speaker 2 yet awakened living. I'm curious for you to speak to that.

Speaker 1 I mean, the one recent story is that I got, so during the pandemic, I got COVID and then I got long COVID. And both my wife, Paige, and I and my sister got it at the same time.

Speaker 1 And they each had it for about...

Speaker 1 six months and I had it for about a year and a half long COVID.

Speaker 1 And so it was like I was, it was like i was my body was like a hundred years old it wasn't when i got up it wouldn't fire the nerve endings wouldn't fire and i had this brain fog and so when i had this brain fog i thought okay i guess i'm not using that you know so so i started i started trusting so i'd go on and i'd teach or i'd go and talk and i was like I'm not even going to prepare, you know, just show off.

Speaker 1 And just the stuff that would come out would be like, that was pretty good. I don't know who said that, but I like that.

Speaker 1 But there started to be almost a trust of this heart mind that isn't using self-referencing all the time. And so when the body and the mind were, they weren't in pain.
That was the good thing.

Speaker 1 It wasn't pain. It was just almost like a disability.
It was like a

Speaker 1 less strength, a less coordination, less firing of things.

Speaker 1 So, so, so then I was able to open up that and that opened up a kind of a, you know, a kind of a tenderness too. I started to kind of be more tender and kind of like, you know, make calls.

Speaker 1 And I was like, well, we want to know how you are. I said, yeah, I'm okay.
How are you doing?

Speaker 1 You know, I was just like, I was just like, I just feel like, you know, I wanted to connect and talk to you. And, you know, I don't know, there's some more

Speaker 1 less left-brain

Speaker 1 personality and more heartfelt emotional life for male, you know,

Speaker 1 in our culture that often isn't, you know, emphasized. So I started to

Speaker 1 feel both optimally functioning and, you know, kind of more fully human during a time where I was disabled.

Speaker 2 That's actually really beautiful.

Speaker 2 I mean, I hear the trust and also running these experiments and maybe even setting a timer just to shift the orientation if I don't have long code and I have the ability to go back into from the mind or, you know, and just a little, just noticing the spaciousness and this new orientation.

Speaker 2 But also, I think I'm hearing as I'm talking, I'm hearing myself talk about the psychological of what the fear or the desire that is gripping that, if there is that there to really face the thing that I'm trying to avoid in service to getting free of it.

Speaker 2 I think that would be worthy. And I that's definitely for people that have a strong ego structure.

Speaker 2 I would not say for anybody that has big T-trauma to do that work and definitely get a trained professional to hold space when you're doing real deep shadow work.

Speaker 2 But I love that you're bringing in the heart because I think in some traditions, people can be very heady spiritually or they even go into the body sometimes, but there's not this love based or they just do the love based and there's not clear seeing.

Speaker 2 So both are really important.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I came out of the, out of the pandemic and started getting, and then I went into one of the most intense

Speaker 1 business and I created an app. So I started getting into like working with coders and like all these details and like, you know, on the computer all the time.

Speaker 1 And it was like, it was like a little bit of a,

Speaker 1 you know, like, you know, the brakes were on and the glass was on.

Speaker 1 But eventually, like you're saying, you almost like you, it's what I call almost now panoramic flow when I'm like in the heart and flowing and relationally and then absorbed flow.

Speaker 1 So I would enter into the world.

Speaker 1 of a task that takes a lot of left brain stuff. And I would just go right into it and let go like, oh, yeah, look at that.
That works like that. And this is like, oh, and then there's this and that.

Speaker 1 And that's okay. Oh, we could do that or we could do that.
This, like, oh, yeah, that's right. Okay, that's good.
And then I'd like come out and like, oh, an hour went by.

Speaker 1 Okay, well, but I got, you know, that was interesting. So it's kind of this, you know, need to not do, you know, technical stuff as well, you know.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, I'm really hearing that this is the medicine for burnout, which is hyper-focused in the mind where it does burnout versus this awake-loving flow. Yes.
This is intelligent.

Speaker 2 It's nourishing. And to really be able to create from this space is,

Speaker 2 I think, what a lot of people are interested in. So I love these glimpses as a bridge to help reorient and also to know that it's possible to step into this.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And just one more thing about that is that there's what I call effortless focus, which is basically when you open, again, I won't do this glimpse because it's visual, because

Speaker 1 it makes you open your awareness up. But when you open to be aware from a more

Speaker 1 awareness-based rather than thought-based knowing that's embodied and has a feeling of unity,

Speaker 1 you are no longer using attention

Speaker 1 to focus. You're using local awareness, which is part of the field.
So you're literally focusing from this mind, which isn't moving. So

Speaker 1 I had or have some ADHD as a kid. So, I just don't use the ADHD mind.
And if the ADHD mind comes up and goes, like, I want to help, it's like, you don't have to help with this.

Speaker 1 You can help with some other stuff later on. Okay, good.
I'll go play.

Speaker 1 But the focus is literally an effortless focus because you're focusing from the field that feels like the field of awareness aliveness.

Speaker 1 So, when you try to meditate, you know, the classic thing is the first stage is often watch your breath. When your mind wanders, let it, you know, bring it back.

Speaker 1 So the wandering mind is this small mind and the chattering mind. You can be aware of that as an object.

Speaker 1 When it's no longer the subject, it's like, you know, a shoulder that has a lot of activity in it, maybe even a little pain. So this may have a little pain.
This have a little.

Speaker 1 activity is trying to do this. It has a habit of trying to focus.
And it's like,

Speaker 1 we don't need to focus from there.

Speaker 1 Let's focus from this field of this awareness-based mind and it's amazing that you know again that's what people in flow this guy chiksent mahai right who did this study of flow said there are seven qualities of flow which you're totally in the present you're able to you know the activity you're doing but you have a sense of joy or ecstasy and the task itself is is enough and you feel there's a timelessness and a feeling that you've gone beyond your ego and there's a feeling of interconnection with this field.

Speaker 1 And that's like people

Speaker 1 in any flow playing music or sports, or he even studied middle managers who were in flow.

Speaker 2 You're five times more productive. So like you could go to work on Monday and take the rest of the week off and be as productive as others who work just solely from mind-based, which isn't as fun.

Speaker 2 And it really deepens this dependency on something that could never really, it actually fixes, tries to find and then fix the problems. That's the orientation of mine.

Speaker 2 Nothing wrong with it, but it's just never going to end from that place. And so I love, I love this alternative way and that it is the stage of development.

Speaker 2 I love putting it like you're sharing because then it just feels like, oh, we all graduate from kindergarten to fifth grade to 12th grade. It's like, okay, this is natural.
This is already here.

Speaker 2 And how, what's the map to just shortcut the cul-de-sacs?

Speaker 2 And, but I, but what part of of the, what I really want to highlight, and this is also what I align with in teaching my certification, is like, any of these parts of you aren't bad, that there's, we can, we can see how they're trying to serve us.

Speaker 2 And when we have that compassionate lens, they soften because they're not defensive. They feel seen and accepted and then they integrate.
So don't judge, don't identify.

Speaker 2 And then we can change the orientation. And I love this, these maps that you have.
I think it's so brilliant.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And one of the IFS maps that I've added,

Speaker 1 Dick Schwartz, who created it and I have co-taught together on things like accessing self, because he's mapped out parts so brilliantly and exclusively, you know, exquisitely.

Speaker 1 And I've kind of mapped out self or true nature or awareness. And so the key is that most therapies do good therapy and good work from a compassionate part.
So bring compassion to the part.

Speaker 1 But that's like small C, compassion when, and you only know that when you upgrade to this awake, aware, heart mind that is who you are, is greater than yourself and essentially who you are, that then isn't looking from outside to a part as if there's two.

Speaker 1 It's like ocean is now, oh, we're the same. Oh, same, same.

Speaker 1 And you're part of me and I'm part of you. And I see you're trying to, you know, help and I can see your struggles.
And do you feel me? Do you feel I'm with you?

Speaker 1 And I'm the one you've you've been looking for? You know, we're both looking for love and connection.

Speaker 1 And you've been trying, and you've been stuck in this kind of time prison, which is, you know, like a wound from childhood.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Childhood view of the world. And that you don't even know it when it comes up.
It just sees the world that way. And it feels that, you know, there's threat.

Speaker 1 around based on what was going on there, but it projects it onto this.

Speaker 1 So, you know, that was a great healing for me is working with these parts and finding you know the deeper shame-based parts or ones that were younger or some pre-verbal ones where you can't even they have no words they're just like a mother tiger in the root you know that was just like ah holding yeah no to life resistant yeah it was just like okay i got you i got you yeah but i'm stronger than you and yeah we're not going to let anyone mess with and so sweet because from the perspective and this is like and this is what i love that you're speaking to and i I so align with, from the perspective of essence, I call essence and ego, it welcomes all of it.

Speaker 2 It is all of it. And so without that coaching therapy,

Speaker 2 it can only go so far. And they're beautiful and they both have a place.
But what really goes beyond, which is coming back to ourselves and to really shift this, how do I fix this to

Speaker 2 let me love this? Like, yes, a welcoming. And so

Speaker 2 it's so beautiful. And I love, I think parts work is great.
I just started diving into it in the last year.

Speaker 2 I really unintentionally discovered parts work on my own through Gestalt psychotherapy because, you know, it's the same. It comes from the same root.
And I knew that work.

Speaker 2 And I was like, oh, there's a part that it wants it, a part that's scared of it. And, but it's a great map.
But this work around.

Speaker 2 truth, around waking up to who and what we already are. I say who, but it's really what.
And I say both just for people at different stages. That's the magic.

Speaker 2 And that's, that's the healing presence that liberates all of it. And so you are such a stand and an embodiment of this work.

Speaker 1 And I love, love

Speaker 2 not only your frameworks, but I love that you say yes to both, that it's not about awakening in another life or you have to be so committed to, you know, there's a lot of teachers that do the monastic like life that it's like living on it in a cave and away from society.

Speaker 2 And so your teachings are very practical and in the world. You living in New York City, me in Los Angeles, it's like, yes, this is where deeper truth gets to be integrated and lived.
As an example,

Speaker 2 I'm just a yes. I'm just so grateful for you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, thank you. You too.
It's such great to kind of like immediately connect and, you know, have our, have our,

Speaker 1 our mutual appreciation of, of the work because, you know, I appreciate you and your, your willingness to share with people, to be that beacon and to willing to go into the darkness too with your beacon with people because that's that's the harder work and yet if you have the light it's like it's okay it's okay it's going to be okay we're going to be okay without that then i wouldn't i wouldn't do it with myself i wouldn't take people there and and with that you're right it's like that love wants to

Speaker 2 embody and know and say yes to all of it. And that's the deeper integration and that's the freedom that we really are desiring.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that, you know, just to say that, how I discovered it, I came back from doing this kind of meeting this Dzogchen teacher that I had done long retreats, and all of a sudden, within three minutes, he kind of showed me my own mind, or just pointed it out.

Speaker 1 And I was like, what am I going to do with this? You know, like, well, probably, you know, just whatever it is, I'm what that's what I'm going to do with my life.

Speaker 1 And then I came back and finished this

Speaker 1 joint degree with clinical social work and master in divinity in New York and went into outpatient psych.

Speaker 1 And all of a sudden, I was bringing it up with people who were, you know, coming out of psychiatric hospitals, halfway houses, and stuff. And one person,

Speaker 1 a woman who was,

Speaker 1 you know, I had known and she'd been in and out of hospital.

Speaker 1 And she'd said, you know, there's a part of me that's, you know, today I need to, you're the only one I'll tell that I feels like hurting myself. And I said, okay.

Speaker 1 And I said, and are there any other parts around? And she went, well, yeah, there's another part that, you know, wants to figure this out and make it okay.

Speaker 1 And I just said, well, who's aware of both those parts? And she said, me.

Speaker 1 And she said, me. I said, what do you mean, me? She goes, I don't know me.
You know, like, it's me. I'm aware of those

Speaker 1 parts. And she just like, well, like, right, I know me, but how come I forgot me?

Speaker 1 You know, like, and so it literally is that close and doesn't require, you know, long study and reading all these books and doing long retreats and stuff.

Speaker 1 It's just finding your own way of navigating your own consciousness and which doorways.

Speaker 1 So, you know, in this app that I have, I create different doors for different learning styles and obstacles because not everyone can do the what's here now when there's no problem to solve.

Speaker 1 Not everyone can drop into their body. But once you learn your little, okay, oh, just have awareness go back and then drop down, open up and include everything.
That's it.

Speaker 1 Like that, once that is real and

Speaker 1 you just shift into the natural because it's already installed in us. That's right.

Speaker 2 It doesn't need any maintenance. It just is always now.
Yes. You know, my favorite quote is from St.
Francis of Assisi. He says, what you're looking for is what's looking.
So it's like, what is aware?

Speaker 2 What is looking through these eyes?

Speaker 1 Yes. Oh, so good.

Speaker 2 I can talk to you forever.

Speaker 1 And I love that you're my friend. And I want to keep doing this.

Speaker 2 I'm so grateful for you. And I know my audience, talk to us about your app, what you're up to.
They're going to want to stay connected.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, that's the kind of my

Speaker 1 what I spent my time

Speaker 1 creating is, you know, I just felt like, okay, I've written two books and I have these these courses and they're, they're good, but the app, I know some people don't like using their phone, but, but

Speaker 1 it's just like, well, give somebody a short way to do a glimpse in their pocket. And once they don't need, you know, the role of a teacher is to introduce you to your inner teacher.

Speaker 1 So you don't need to have a teacher.

Speaker 1 Once you get some fine tuning and get a little understanding, you can find your own way home and see what works for you and make it your individual style and then check in with you know friends and colleagues and support and therapists and as well so there you know this i created the kind of non-dual app called mindful glimpses and then i have uh i'm doing a teacher like a teacher facilitator training program that has three parts so i started the first part

Speaker 1 now and will probably continue for those who want to kind of go deeper. So it's not somebody who necessarily wants to teach it, but kind kind of what is it? How do you do it? How do you maintain it?

Speaker 1 How do you go through all five levels so that you can live it? Because that's what needs a little bit of a teacher support once you get to the cul-de-sacs.

Speaker 1 You need a little

Speaker 1 pointer because you can kind of stay in those round and round and

Speaker 1 in the whirlpools, you know.

Speaker 2 No, I'm a fan of getting support from people that are further along in their own maturity and development. A huge fan of it.
Well, I will put all of the links in the show notes below.

Speaker 2 And Locke, again, thank you for your presence in the world. I love you.
I'm so grateful that you've come on.

Speaker 1 I love you too. And please give my heart to Emilio as well.

Speaker 2 I will.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the world, starting with yourself. It truly does make a difference.

Speaker 2 And if you're finding value in this podcast, a cost-free way to support us is by leaving an up to five-star review. It does mean the world to us.

Speaker 2 And as a thank you gift, we're going to send you one of the most powerful tools that you will ever discover.

Speaker 2 You're going to get behind the scenes access, showing you how to live into your full potential without letting fear hold you back from stepping into your dreams.

Speaker 2 Just head over to Apple Podcast or Spotify and leave a review now. You can take a screenshot before hitting submit and then go to alistenobriga.com forward slash podcast to upload it.

Speaker 2 And make sure to have your automatic downloads turned on wherever you listen so you don't miss any of the upcoming episodes. I have so much magic.
I can't wait to share with you.

Speaker 2 And you can find all this information in the show notes below. But lastly, if you're on Instagram, I love connecting and hearing from you.
So come on over and say hello. I'm at Alyssa Nobriga.

Speaker 2 Thank you again for being here. I cannot wait to share more with you.