How to Transform Conflict into Connection with Your Kids with Parenting Coach Destini Davis | EP 58

This idea that we have to be hard on our children because the world is going to be hard on them. And that if we're not hard on them, they are not going to be able to function in the world.
And it's just like it couldn't be any further from the truth. Parents really have to remember that we are teaching our children how to have control.
We are teaching our children what it is like to have control in a relationship. And are we teaching them that you should completely give up control to another person? Or are we teaching them that we should completely power over another person? Because as they develop control in their own lives, which they will, no matter how much control you have over a child, the bigger a human gets, the more autonomy they're going to have.
You'll really start to see what they do with that. I'm curious if there's a parenting myth that you hear in the zeitgeist that you want to bust.
One that I see very often is... Welcome back to the Healing and Human Potential podcast, where today we're going to talk about how emotional regulation works.
We're also going to explore how to parent ourselves at the root, so we're not unconsciously projecting that onto our kids or onto our teams. And we're also going to talk about the difference between peaceful parenting versus traditional parenting.
We're joined by Destiny Davis, who has impacted millions across her platforms, and she really unpacks the psychology of parenting so that it's not only digestible, connected, but also actionable. This is such a beautiful episode and you'll walk away with actionable things that you can test out right away.
I'm so happy that you're here. So good.
I've been wanting to share you with my audience really because, you know, having worked as a licensed psychotherapist, I see the long-term effects of childhood and how that plays into the rest of our lives. And so, you know, to me, I can't think of a better way to change the world than to support parents and like really help them do the work.
And you are one of the most prominent voices that I think the world should hear around this topic. And one of the things that I really appreciate about the work that you do is you share with people your vulnerable journey as a parent, as a single mom.
And I think that's beautiful. And you also take these really complex, controversial, and powerful teachings and you break them down into grounded, actionable things that parents can do.
And so I'm so excited to have you on. And just to get people started, because I know you talk a lot about peaceful parenting.
Can you talk to us about the difference between traditional parenting and peaceful parenting? Or if there's a story that would share the difference between the two? Yeah. I mean, I know that it looks different for every single household.
There's no one size fit all, regardless of what paradigm that we fit in. But I think the biggest piece of it is honoring like their humanity and being intentional about understanding that this is supposed to be a collaborative process.
So they're not supposed to just be like coming into our world. There is an element of this that is relational.
And so I like to think it a bit more as connected parenting. And so if we are not having the foundation of connection and like deep intimacy, then it kind of falls outside of the realm of peaceful parenting and lining up our actions and our discipline with this decreasing connection or is it increasing connection is Um, is, is kind of like the, the framework that I like to use in terms of describing peaceful parenting.
I like that. Cause then that's like a guiding post for every different situation you have.
Is this going to bring more connection or is this going to bring more disconnection? And so cause we can share, we can teach our kids something, but where we're coming from really matters. And I'm curious, maybe there's like short-term effects of traditional parenting versus more of this connected parenting versus long-term.
Can you share with us what you see from that point of view as a way to help? Because parenting's hard. Like it's just hard any way you cut it and it's beautiful and rewarding.
And, you know, I think the more we are aware of the long-term and short-term that might motivate some parents to put in a little bit of the work in the beginning for it to be easier long run. Yeah.
So just in terms of the short-term effects of more traditional parenting and what I'm seeing. Yeah.
So the lack of connection oftentimes does manifest in children being smaller and playing smaller or the opposite. Children having really big, not developmentally appropriate reactions because of that lack of trust.
Children not being able to confide in their parents and talk to their parents and not having that relational foundation can obviously lead to more maladaptive adverse behaviors as they get older. I have a preteen right now.
And so it's like a very important sticky phase and we're experiencing things. And she's starting to get her own values and it's a challenging phase.
And I can't imagine what this phase would look like if we at least did not have a root and foundation of connection. And I think that when I focus on that, I explain that to parents, they think like, oh, well, if I tell them no, obviously that's going to create disconnection because they're unhappy with me.
And I think the main difference is understanding and recognizing that conflict, if done appropriately, is an opportunity for a connection. It's an opportunity for us to understand them better, for them to understand us, for us to problem solve and think critically.
And so I think that when we come in with punishments and we come in with force, it really does take away the opportunity for us to connect in those conflicting moments. And as a result, we see more deceptive behaviors or we see more shutdown.
I think the biggest thing is that it chips away at them and it chips away at their sense of self and their sense of trust. And there's so many behaviors that can come directly from a child not being grounded in their environment and as an effect, not being grounded in themselves.
Yeah. It's almost like taking away their voice or their authority and power within their own sense of self, which is what we want to support long-term.
And yeah, I think also just building that connection and even showing them how to problem solve and collaboratively work within relationships. You're modeling that for them to have a template for the rest of their life.
Yeah. I'm curious for just busy parents and who are overwhelmed and wanting to test out more connected-based parenting, what would be like a go-to, something that they can implement right away just to test this out for themselves? Oh, I would always start with active listening.
It's one of those things that is such a powerful way to see the difference between when we're present versus when we're not. And so practicing things like sports casting and just noticing our children.
So walking in my child's room and just noticing what she's doing, just saying what she's doing, things like reflective listening.

So if your child is talking to you,

you have to be tuned in and tapped in to reflect back what they're saying.

So when they come home from school and they're like X, Y, and Z happened,

just reflecting back what you heard.

Doing that and noticing the difference in the conversation

or in your child's openness,

but also noticing the difference in how you see and view and manage your child in conversation is a really cool thing. And we start to notice like, wow, this small person who I care so much about, I am not as tuned in and present with going through the motions of the day as I think that I am.
So I would start there. Yeah.
Yeah.. Yeah.
I, what you called it, sport casting. What did you call it? Casting.
Yeah. It's like the sportscaster is just telling you what's happening.
Like there's no judgment. There's no labeling there.
I think that that's a really good way for us to start like not being so critical of behaviors, but just starting to notice. And it's also allows our children to start to notice themselves and notice their internal dialogue.
And so I'll just say to my daughter, I notice how you responded to your sister. Or I notice you're working hard on that, just noticing them and recognizing their behaviors.
I think I've noticed and seen in my daughter, she's able to articulate more clearly her experience because I'm reflecting it to her. So she'll come up to me and be like, I noticed that I'm like, I feel really weird in my body when I'm bored.
As opposed to getting bored and throwing a tantrum. These are the things that I think really happen when you take the time to stop and pause and give your child's internal dialogue and external platform.
And I like that it's nonjudgmental. It's just like reflecting back.
It's giving them the space to become more self-aware, be connected in the experience, no judgment. And sometimes, you know, like my son is really, he's like his father, a man of few words where like, you know, the girls I can talk to easily.
And so I think that would work even more so with him. I mean, both, but it would help give more space for him to respond rather than me want to fill the space as a way to try to connect.
So I can just calling myself out on ways to do that, especially because I just shared with you today, they're leaving one for college and another for boarding school. And, and so I want to be able to create that connection now through the phone.
And so I have to learn different skills. And so thank you for that.
I'm curious, was there a story or a moment that really was pivotal for you in your own parenting journey that changed your approach? Oh, goodness. Probably more of like a slow burn in terms of losing my mom, who I had a very codependent relationship with and stepping into parenting and grief when my daughter was about five and recognizing I have connection with my daughter but I do not have respect in this relationship we do not have discipline in this relationship and to navigate like, okay, how do I discipline a child that does not respect me? How do I do that, but still keep the connection? I think that that was like the big shift for me because a lot of parents are coming from like the yelling and the spanking.
I came from the complete opposite end and kind of tried to like, okay, I'm going to put my foot down. We're going to have all these rules.
Like I'm struggling. I'm young.
I don't have my support network anymore. I'm tired.
I'm overwhelmed. So these got to be the rules.
And that absolutely did not work. And so I think that that was like the biggest thing.
That was the biggest shift for me. Like I don't want her to feel the things that I feel as a child, but I genuinely do not know how to parent her other than what I experienced.
And I think that's a good start where it's like, I don't want what I had. I want to elevate it, but I don't know where to go.
I think that's a really beautiful moment to get to, to start asking different questions. And when you were talking about the question of how do you discipline from connection? I'm like, you, I'm curious your perspective on it.
What have you learned around that? Yeah. So I think that the most important thing, first of all, is understanding our values and understanding where our parenting choices are coming from and understanding our why is really important.
Recognizing that if we don't have boundaries in our environment around those values, then we need to start to question like, is this something I really value? Or is this coming from trauma or ego or fear? And if I don't have boundaries around it, how can I get boundaries around it? Especially when they're smaller, when they're younger, it's not so much telling them what to do as it is you're in this environment. And this is what's happening.
You're seeing and I'm modeling. I think that that's the most important part is the modeling and the boundaries.
Now when it comes to conflict and okay, where you have the boundaries, I have the limits and there's frustration and there's pushback. For me, I have very clear conversations with both my children where the expectations are clear, they're developmentally appropriate, they're collaborated on, right? Like those kinds of things.
So in the moment, my goal is to be sturdy and empathetic and scaffold and support them without swaying constantly on the expectations and the boundaries. that's where I was previously.
The expectations were contingent upon my emotional state or my ability to handle their disappointment. And that's so emotionally unsafe for a child.
It really, really is. And so I try to like, you know, how can I support you? Like, I understand that.
I get that there's flexibility in the limit. And at the same time, it's still the limit.
I think it's really important to give my children enough room to experience negative consequences of maybe not working within the values, right? So my children have stayed up all night and had the experience of, Oh my God, cleaning my room right now is miserable. And we sit down and talk about it and plan because that's creative problem solving.
Right. That's, that's a part of the habit forming process and collaborating with our children like that, as opposed to like constantly, because I said, so has helped to get like buy-in.
Right. And so as my daughter is a preteen and she's starting to make other decisions, we have things that we have built off of.
Well, how did you feel when there was a similar experience and how did you handle that? And what did you do? So she can make positive decisions on her own because she's moving into a space where I don't have as much of a hand in her relationships, in her interactions, in her behaviors. So if we don't set that up in the beginning, like if we're not collaborating with them, communicating with them, explaining with them, giving them opportunities to fail and not stepping in with a punishment and not stepping in with too much support, they don't grow and strengthen that voice or their ability to make decisions.
It's almost like they're building these muscles over time so that they're more grounded and resourceful as adults. And as they grow up, there's age stage appropriate ways to connect and communicate and give them choices and consequences and unpack.
But a lot of what I hear you're doing is creating a safe space for them to learn and then for them to reflect and to build that muscle within themselves so that they're solid on their own rather than trying to control them, which I think is kind of the background that I came from, which was passed down without judgment. It's like, okay, when you're 18, then you have freedom, but it's like, okay, how do I support my kids to have the autonomy and the critical thinking and learn along the way, which is more of a guide, which I really appreciate sharing.
I think that comes naturally for a lot of us when we have support, when we have, you know, I really do. I think it's really easy to want to control our kids when we don't have as much control over ourselves and over our lives.
I've definitely experienced that as a single mom. It is so much easier to just force them to do what I want you to do because I'm managing this and I'm doing that.
Just go to bed right this second. I need relief.
But I ask myself, is that how I would respond to this behavior if I had support? Like if I had somebody to tag in right now, would they have to go to bed right this second? And being able to acknowledge that my needs are valid and I'm in community with my children. So there is balance there, but at the same time, they're not responsible for my dysregulation, my lack of support, my needs.
They're not responsible for them. And so it shifts the conversation of like, Hey, I'm exhausted.
Can we go to bed? Or I think the other night I told my oldest, we're playing the game. And I was just like, Hey, it's getting late.
I know we didn't really connect much today. That wasn't your fault.
I'm really irritated right now. And I'm not as patient.
Do you want to play while I work through my lack of patience or do you maybe just want to play in the morning and she was like yeah I'll just deal with the attitude I want to play but being able to communicate that is what being in community with my kids looks like without just not expressing that and I'm rude rude and I have an attitude and they are wearing it or starting to internalize it. And sometimes we're just going to be in a mood where, right, we are doing the best that we can.
Yeah. Yeah.
But I love that you are transparent with them. So they have context.
It's not personal to me. Mom's working something out, but I'm still choosing into that and you're giving them choices.
What was one of my favorite hacks as a parent was like, what are your choices? What are you choosing? I loved that because then I didn't feel like I had to do it for them, you know, which is part of my conditioning, which I'm healing through. But it was like, that's also really empowering.
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I'm also curious about sibling, like the, the conflict between siblings, how you approach that. I think that's probably like my biggest, like Achilles heel is sibling conflict.
I think that I manage it well, but it's one of those things that really does like exhaust me in parenting. I think that it's like a trigger for me, for sure.
I'm really big on like being the mediator and not the referee. And so seeking to understand before I like make calls and quick judgments, like I'm just, I want y'all to figure this out and be able to handle it.
So I ask a lot of questions when there's conflict, when they're like nitpicking, I try not to nitpick. I think that's like a big one with my oldest.
It's like, she'll be picking on nitpicking on her sister's behavior. And then if I come in and like, and picking on her behavior about her sister, it's like, you know what I'm saying? Like, right, exactly.
So I try to be conscious of that because my daughter feels it and she will feel like you're not like you completely missed that. She's been picking on me all day.
And then the minute that like, I call her a, but it's like, now you see, now you see what's going on. It's almost like that's the triangulation.
I mean, as a former couples therapist, like that was when I would get into the triangulation with a couple. And it's the same thing with what you're saying, you know, with siblings.
It's like, oh, how do I like see the system objectively or help support the system rather than getting sucked into the unconscious dynamic, further perpetuating the pattern that they're caught in. That's great.
Yeah, that's great. That's a good point.
And I think that I do try not to take it personal because it's very easy to like, why are you doing that to my kid? Why are you talking to her like that? Like, why are you being mean? And recognizing that some form, like some parts of sibling rivalry are like normal and natural. And just because they're having a squabble doesn't mean that I have to come out of my room and like address it, like give them an opportunity to, to figure it out.
That's really helpful to me. And after I'm like really big on like, I got to decompress.
Like that was a lot. That's bringing up sibling stuff for me.
And like, it's a lot. So I'm really intentional about, okay, everybody just take five.
You go in your room, you go in your room, I'll go in my room and then we'll figure it out. But for the most part, they're pretty good at problem solving on their own because I've given them those tools on how to express.
Yeah. Yeah.
And you've modeled it with them, which also gives them that reference point. I'm curious for there are common pitfalls that you see parents making that they're not even aware that they're doing just to bring some more consciousness to the parenting game.
Cause I think it can be easy to get sucked into those triangulations or to parent the way that we were parented under stress and all of this, you know, having compassion with ourselves and anybody listening to this is incredible for doing the work to want to better their parenting and love their kids and support that connection and their wellbeing in the world. And so we just want to also offer that because oftentimes people that are actually doing the work to become better are sometimes the harshest on themselves.
And I want to put that in perspective, but are there common pitfalls that parents fall into that you see pretty clearly now having done this work for quite a while? Yes. One that I see very often is parents not being able to separate their children's behavior from their children's character and like their children's goodness.
And then the other layer of that is them not being able to separate their children's behavior from their own goodness and value. And seeing how making that shift can change your reactivity like is a really powerful thing to see because oftentimes when we see a behavior, parents are projecting into the future of what that behavior means about a person.
Like, oh my God, you'd never clean up your room without being asked. And now you're like seeing a lazy adult that just can't get it together in your head.
And so the magnitude of your response is to that person and not necessarily to the child who is learning executive functioning skills. And so it makes us less supportive and more judgmental, more critical.
That's right. Yeah.
I see that in terms of parents being more traditionally authoritarian. And then on the same note, seeing a behavior and internalizing, this means something about my value, about who I am as a person, if my child doesn't do this or does do that.
So I need to hyper-focus on my behaviors and change and not be willing to, or in over support my child when maybe they don't necessarily need that. I think that connecting their behavior to their value or to our value is one of the biggest pitfalls that I see parents falling into.
Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.
Is there a misunderstanding that you think people often have around connective parenting or peaceful parenting? In regards to that? No, just in general. Do people think,

oh, if I do this, that means taking that same train of thought about peaceful or connected parenting? What is a misunderstanding that you want to clear up around it? I think that we don't realize as a society how infatuated we are with retribution. and so

really and so

to that point of being able to separate my child

from this infatuated we are with like retribution. And so to that point of being able to separate my child from their behavior, if I am responding to the needs beneath the behavior or what's going on beneath the behavior, oftentimes people see that as you're not addressing the kid.
Like you need to, they need to get it. The consequence needs to be this.
The punishment needs to be that they need to feel bad so that they don't do this behavior again. And if that is not happening, then you are not disciplining them.
You are not teaching them anything. And I get that being seen as permissive to people quite often.
If my daughter, like I talked to one time about her slamming the door and me being able to understand where the behavior was coming from and speaking to that need and that hurt and that pain that she was experiencing first is like, okay, so it's just okay to slam doors. Like that's just an okay thing to do.
And people not recognizing like anything I'm trying to teach her is going to land better when she feels safe. Period.
And her slamming the door is a clear communication that she does not feel safe. So why would I even address that first? Like that is disconnection to me.
That would create disconnection. Yeah.
You're going to the root of it, right? Because when we are feeling safe and connected, we don't slam the door. And so you're going to the root and maintaining the relationship.
And yes, there are consequences to slamming a door. And yes, there are things that will be spoken about, but it's that first, it's the connection first.
That's beautiful. I think that's really helpful because otherwise you're just egoically reacting.
Like I don't discipline their stepmom. So they have a mom that's very involved and I'm like a bonus mom that just loves them.
So I don't get into these similar dynamics. He does such a great job with maintaining that connection.
And anyway, it's just making me appreciate my husband even more in the ways that he's doing that. And to be able to honor and not just get into this egoic reactive dynamic, I think that would only perpetuate more defense, more disconnection rather than actually helping them resolve and be able to reflect on what did get triggered in me.
And was that okay? Was that the best way to express that, but not to shame them through it? Yeah. I think that's been...
But it's hard to recognize the difference. And it's definitely hard to recognize it when you're watching a 90-second Instagram video.
But that's not necessarily the same way that I would respond to my six-year-old being like, I don't want to take a shower. It's not something that's necessarily deeper happening right now.
And so for parents to understand, um, Jai Institute for Parenting has like this illustration of like a flower. And so the behavior is the actual flower, but what's underneath it, what's driving the behavior is the roots.
And so being able to understand the difference between the root of this behavior is just where they are developmentally versus the root of this behavior is our this season's level of attachment or it's situational or it's there there's an actual need that's not being met parents being able to understand and get curious about that i think is something that's missing in the conversation right because sometimes it really just is like she's six she she hasn't developed a habit she doesn't want to do it're like, okay, all right. I get it.
I know. Come on, let's go take, like, we don't have to sit and process therapy, talk and process.
We don't have to do that with everything. But then there are things that are deeper where we can say, okay, we're going through a lot of transitions right now.
This is becoming a repetitive behavior. This is something that's deeper than just me redirecting the behavior.
And I think I've experienced that enough with my oldest to where once she's safe and calm again, then we can have that conversation. And the conversation isn't about don't do this.
The conversation is when you need this, when you feel this, when you want to express this, here's a way to do it. Here's a healthy, positive way to do it where you can still get your needs met, but that is still kind, respectful, and still in alignment with the things that I know that you value and would appreciate from another human.
Yeah. So it's like honoring their anger or whatever they're feeling, but expressing it a healthy way, right? And then also still getting their needs met and being respectful for those around.
Yeah. And being willing to also acknowledge like when, when we're talking about like door slamming, that that's like not inherently a bad thing.
And I think that it's really good. It keeps me in alignment with my child and understanding who she is as a person by expressing these things as my preferences like we are in community and when you're in community with another person you if you respect them you are respecting their preferences sometimes you are open to considering them and so i'm not saying you are a bad person i'm not saying what you did was bad i'm saying this is how i prefer to be spoken to like this the tone I prefer.
I know this is also the tone that you prefer. So maybe we should talk to each other this way, as opposed to like, that is so rude.
The way that you're talking to me is so rude. The labeling, I think, as they're growing is just way too complex for them to understand.
It's not, it's just not necessary. And I think that it's a really valuable lesson in boundaries and how to respect other people without wearing their beliefs and their values and their desires and their preferences.
Like, all right, mom doesn't like to be spoken to that way. I respect mom.
I'm not going to speak to her that way, but it may be different in navigating other relationships. Yeah.
And I really like how you talk about like age appropriate because there's different parts of the brain that are developing. They don't have the prefrontal cortex understanding, reflective thinking yet at certain age stages.
And so in some of the younger age stages where kids are throwing tantrums in public, what is, I know that their parents are like, please help me. What are some hacks or perspective you can help shed light on to support them and navigating that differently? Yeah, I think that when it comes to them being younger, as their brains are developing, because you haven't had as much time to develop those other roots, just focus on where they are developmentally, which means that them tantruming probably is appropriate.
Focusing on those basic human needs, majority of the time, that's what's happening. That's what's going on.
And then focusing on the context. I think that it's a really beautiful time for us to just learn and get curious about our children and what triggers them and using that information to be proactive in our parenting.
I'm seeing what kind of routines and boundaries benefit and serve our children the most and the best. And then understanding they're still going to have tantrums.
And the best thing that you can do in the moment is to regulate yourself and try to get them to containment, like emotional containment as quickly as possible without shutting down their feelings, without constantly giving in. But I think when parents understand, like, in society, this is a normal thing.
Like, it's normal for children to not know how to communicate those big feelings. And the best thing you can do is not force them to stop, but also not...
Like, I think there's been a shift where it's like, okay, have to like stare at them in the eyes for 30 minutes and we're like it's okay to be mad tell me how you're feeling like point to the feeling what is it you know what i'm saying and i think that we've kind of swung in the complete opposite direction where we are putting so much emphasis on the emotional experience that in a way it's kind of attending to it in a way that makes it more repetitive. Yeah.
Indulging in it in a way that makes it more repetitive than it needs to be and potentially stifling their ability to develop healthy emotions. I think in these circles, people listening to podcasts like this, I think mainstream, not yet, but that's our learning process.
We pendulum and then we go to the exact opposite as a way to support integration. And one of the things I think that is one of the most empowering things that you teach is that our kids are not responsible for our upset as parents.
And I think it's really important for that to be highlighted because it's like, yes, we're going to get triggered as parents. That's normal.
And that's a part of it, but we can have the tools and perspectives to learn, to navigate the part of us that's triggered and not put it on our kids, trying to control them, to not fight or yell so that then we feel safe, but really just undo our work to reparent ourselves, to be with ourselves. I'd love for you to share your reframe about this because I know you speak to this and I think it's really important.
Yeah. I mean, so sometimes it is semantics, like saying you made me mad is not a harmful thing.
Sometimes their behaviors trigger an emotion, right? But if we're saying you made me mad as a way to excuse whatever the behavior or reaction that followed, then that's when it

starts to become dangerous. Because in that space, one, they're wearing or internalizing how we treat them and believing that they deserve to be yelled at, screamed at, lectured, punished, whatever.
But then the other piece of that is then now we're not actually taking accountability for our actions and we're not able to grow ourselves and we're not able to see our own behavior. So I think it's really important for us to acknowledge like, Hey, when you're in a relationship with people, certain behaviors are going to be harmful to other people.
And that's not always something that, like I said, in the peaceful parenting space, but I think that does a disservice to children to tell them you are not, you are completely not responsible for the people in your environment. Like, do you want them to live in community with other people successfully? Right? But the piece of it is you're never responsible for how somebody manages their emotional state.
And I think that is important.

And so if your children don't have the voice

to be able to tell you how they perceive your behavior,

then they are responsible.

They're gonna feel responsible.

Like my kids can say like, I didn't appreciate,

I teach them the same language I use.

I didn't really appreciate how you just said that.

That hurt my feelings when you said that.

Can you try that again? I don't understand those kinds of things. So I can say, you know what? Let me try again.
This is what I meant to say. Doesn't mean that I'm changing my point.
Doesn't mean that the limit is changing. It just means that I desire connection.
Connection is important. And in order to be connected with another person, I have to be willing to acknowledge on the other end how my behaviors are, how my reactions to their actions are also impacting them.
And when we don't do that, it's very one-sided. It's very like, you don't hurt my feelings, but my reaction is like, cool.
Like, it's totally fine because I'm the adult. And that is just not reciprocal.
And what happens is as they get older and they get more power, the dynamic shifts. And now it's like, I'm a teenager.
You did something that bothered me. And this is my reaction.
Or I don't appreciate what you're doing, what you're saying. I don't respect it.
So I'm just not going to do it. And so parents really have to remember that we are teaching our children how to have control.
We are teaching our children what it is like to have control in a relationship. And are we teaching them that you should completely give up control to another person? Or are we teaching them that we should completely power over another person? Because as they develop control in their own lives, which they will, no matter how much control you have over a child, the bigger a human gets, the more autonomy they're going to have.
You'll really start to see what they do with that. And I know that a lot of times parents do not like that their children start to treat them the way that they treated them.
Yeah. Yeah.
And a lot of this comes back to just regulating our own emotions and nervous system and coming back to safety and modeling that for them and learning to be in relationship that these are the templates. These are the imprints of what it looks like to be in relationship with our primary caregivers.
And so yeah, we're modeling it. And I got my stepkids when they were three and under.
So zero three it was like six months a year and a half three and a half and one of the really powerful hacks that I learned in that time because I didn't have nine months to figure it figure it out I was like trying to get what I could was to mirror them emotionally when they're in an emotional state so I don't have to have fix it. And the same principle that I'm about to share is also with any relationship because we all have an inner child.
We all have emotions. And so it's like when we're in an emotional state to really focus on meeting, like you were saying, mirroring them emotionally, like I really see that you're frustrated.
Tell me more. We're just opening the space and just mirroring that.
And then going to the logic because we're in a different part of our brains when we're in our emotion than we are when we're having logical thinking. And so being able to support them and us understanding how to navigate some of the either triggered or whatever it may be when we're more leading with our emotions, I think is really helpful and valuable.
And I know you talk about people misunderstanding, managing their emotions and as trying to calm kids down, which you talk about that does the opposite. Can you unpack that for us so that we can understand managing emotions and how that may not be calming down? Yeah, absolutely.
So regulating is not necessarily about like finding calm. For me in my house, regulating is about being in a state where the decisions that I'm making are coming from my highest level of development.
Right. And so my daughter, I know that she has the development and the executive functioning skills to clean her room.
Let's just say that, right? So if I come in her room, nine o'clock in the morning and say, hey, make sure you clean your room. And then I come back an hour later, it's still not done.
Still not done. Three hours later, now she's getting an attitude.
I'm recognizing, okay, this isn't about calm. There's something happening right now.
And so let me get curious about that. Same thing with my six-year-old running around and being all over the place.
Like she's not tantruming, she's not angry, but it's difficult for her to tap into the parts of her brain that I know make certain things easier, like collaboration, like cooperation, like following instructions.

And so being able to recognize that it's not always about calming my child down.

That's the first thing.

It's just sometimes it's about supporting them back to being able to do the behaviors that I know that they know.

The other piece of that is that when we are feeling anxiety about their feelings, sometimes

we come out of the logical parts of our brain.

And we think that because we're talking, we're being logical. And we're like, it feels like parenting to like a good example that I see all the time is like when children are self-deprecating and like mothers, especially when their daughters are doing it, it is really triggering.
And so there's this like desire to speak, speak, speak, speak, and fill like no you're amazing you're beautiful like why don't you say that and like it's us getting this and it's us starting to go into like distorted thinking patterns and trying to ease our dysregulation by word vomiting right but to your point a lot of times it feels safer for a child to be able to have an emotion and ride through that emotion. And so in those instances, sometimes just tell me more.
That makes sense. I'm so sorry you're feeling that way.
Like empathy and compassion and sympathy and asking, how can I support you? What do you need right now? A lot of times makes those moments a lot more connected, but we also have genuine resolution and we're not like fixing it or putting a bandaid on it for them. I think that I've had some really beautiful experiences and situations with my daughter when I'm able to do that versus when I'm like not recognizing my own anxiety and lecturing or, you know,

it's all, it's all projection and it's all fear. Yeah.
And, and we kind of teach our kids what emotions are okay or not okay based on our conditioning or relationship with those emotions.

We give ourselves space to say yes to our full human experience and know that there's,

it's just stretching the capacity to be with them and presence them is what helps emotional mastery. When you're speaking, I'm just hearing it for myself applied with work, where if I get triggered at work, mainly with team and dynamics, and I teach emotional mastery and I'm good at this.
And I still need reminders of like, okay, pause and feel before doing more because I'll do from this like frantic or dysregulated place. And so everything that you are sharing and teaching both for how parents can do it with themselves, but then model that with their kids will set them up for the rest of their lives for every other relationship, whether it be work, lover,

you know, community, anybody in their, in their world. And so I just keep coming back to the importance of this and how much easier life can be as we prioritize learning this sooner than later.
So thank you for teaching it. That's such a good point.
And I think that when we are able to let go of that fear and like you said integrate the whole human range of emotions it comes up differently for them and over time they're able to manage it like envy is normal insecurity is normal and we're all going to experience it like there's nothing you could say that is going to make your child not go through the, the insecure phase. There's nothing you can do or say, but how safe does it feel to actually go through that with a person that's just there, that's just in it with you and is not trying to fix something that isn't necessarily fixable because then you get in that loop of, I feel insecure.
I'm panicking. So I have to fix it.
And so many behaviors can come from that as opposed to being able to recognize

I'm having a feeling it's going to pass. Do I need to do anything not to get rid of the feeling,

but to be able to experience the feeling more comfortably?

That's right. Yeah.
Yeah. And that's it.

And that's it. And I think sometimes when we're not

identified I'm sad versus sadness is here then it's like like you're saying then it's like oh

this feeling is here I love inside out bless for moving in this direction where it's like oh there's

gifts and sadness oh this is not who I am but it this is an energy that gets to be allowed and like

you said it moves on ironically when we allow it it about it, but just feeling and allowing it. So for me, it's like, if I want to be stuck with something, I identify with it and I judge it.
And the opposite is true. If I want to get free, I don't identify.
This is just a feeling. It's not a fact.
It's just here temporarily. It's allowed.
So then when it's accepted and it's not who I am, it just, it has the space. And even I think of these emotions, like kids that are just looking for a hug, right? Like there's a, an upset.
It just wants to be presenced. And as I mother that, that energy, it just is, it moves on.
And so it doesn't have to be hard or take a long time, but it's the willingness and the openness that I think makes the biggest difference. That's beautiful.
Yeah. And one of the other things that I've heard you say that I love is you were talking about not all parents are open to this or ready for it, but giving our kids the space to communicate their boundaries with us as parents.
Or like when we've done something that's out of alignment with what we teach, that they can call us out in a respectful way, but that is important. Can you unpack that for us? Because I know there's sometimes where unconsciously, both my husband and I will be like, oh, I would have never been able to say that or talk about that with my parents.
And yes, although that's true. And we can be there for the part that can come up that it kind of was like, oh, I wish I would have had that and really still move it forward for our kids and this generation.
So that, again, the respect I think is the important piece, but to be able to also remind us like, oh yeah, and to apologize and make it right. Will you share what you teach on that? Yeah.
My daughters tell me about myself. They tell me about myself all the time.
And I appreciate it because I don't want them to go through life, like just experiencing me and having to shift and like walk on eggshells around me. And so I think it's important for them to be able to do that.
And I also recognize that I'm teaching them how to do that. I didn't, that's something you just tell somebody, a child how to do, and then boom, they know how to do it.
I have to be willing to like manage when they don't do it, maybe in the quote unquote best way and still acknowledge like, this is still important that we have the kind of relationship where they can tell me how they're feeling and being conscious and intentional about how I redirect so that I don't ever shut that down. Like if you're telling me about myself in a way that I'm perceiving as rude, I'm not going to just ignore that.
But the way that I respond can either keep the space open or slowly start to shut the space down. And so I have to make sure that I am not matching energy.
I can't say I don't ever match energy, but I have to make sure that I'm not because that is so confusing. And that is the quickest way to lose our children's respect.
If how we want them to behave is different than especially right in the moment if they're speaking to us a certain way and then we turn around and speak to them the same way yeah to get them to stop speaking to us in that way as they get older and their brains are growing and their perception is widening they are not going to respect us they are genuinely not respect our opinions, our values. They will inherently start to feel like our hypocrisy.
And that makes it more challenging. So when they bring information or feedback to me, I have to be willing to hear it and acknowledge it and make sure that if I'm bringing a correction or redirection, I'm conscious of how I'm expressing that and being intentional about that.
That's a whole other level that I didn't think about, but yes, yes. I think it's so important because sometimes it can be like, don't talk to me that way.
That's the projection of how I'm talking to you the way that you did. I didn't want you talking to me.
So yeah, to be, to be mindful of that and to encourage the intention, but they need some teaching or some feedback to really get that right. I mean, this is just like on a whole other level, so much more respect for parents and the emotional mastery work that we get to do to then hold that and help develop that within them.
It's hard. Yeah.
Yeah. It's hard.
It's hard for me. I'm, I was like the angry kid.
I was like the sense of justice, strong, like heavy, very much so. And so there are moments where I'm like, let me try that again.
Like, cause I will be like, what was that? Or like, why are you talking to me like that? Like, I don't, you know, I like very quickly. yeah I can be very reactive in that way but I also believe in like a bank of goodwill and

in our relationships I don't, you know, I like very quickly. Yeah.
I can be very reactive in that way, but I also believe in like a bank of goodwill and in our relationships, I don't put the pressure on myself to constantly have, like, I don't tone police myself. If I make a mistake, it's very much just like, I have the freedom to say, let me try that again.
I love that. Okay.
Can you highlight this? Cause I can hear parents that are guilt trip themselves and how hard that is. Like I'm not perfect.
And I do listen to podcasts like this and I'm trying my best, but I still react. And, you know, they came from childhoods that didn't have this model.
Can you talk to us about the power of self-forgiveness and, you know, even forgiveness and the importance of that with our children? Yeah. Like there's an idea in Jai of generous assumptions and how when we lead with generous assumptions about our children, it impacts the way that we show up with them, which impacts the relationship and how they behave.
But the same is true for us. And so when I have generous assumptions about myself, when it's, I responded that way, not because I'm inherently defective, not because of, you know, stuff that's out of my control.
I responded that way because I've been working way more and my survival needs are not being met right now. When I see a generous assumption, that means that now I'm more in a problem solving space and I'm not in a problem noticing space about myself.
Right. And so I can, I'm more likely to take positive growth minded steps when I give myself generous assumptions, I'm more likely to say, Hey, let me try that again.
I'm more likely to not fall into permissive parenting when that happens.

And so I think that's important.

Like I'm showing up in imperfect authenticity.

I know my stuff.

I really love and appreciate the parents that are like, I haven't caused any harm or I'm

not going to cause any harm.

I think that is so great.

I think that is wonderful.

I don't think that that's where I am.

And I hope that that gives some parents like space of like... Yeah.
Like some of us have caused harm and as a result have difficult time parenting. And if you have accountability, you have growth mindset on the other side of your child being adult, they may say like, I didn't appreciate this.
This was difficult for me. And I have a good relationship with my parents.
I respect my parent. I know that my parent was consistently, intentionally parenting to the best of their ability.
I think for some of us, we're scared of that being the reality. And that fear is making us hyper vigilant to a point where we can't grow because we are micromanaging mistakes rather than similar to what you said about feelings rather than being able to accept.
We are in a constant space of identifying with and judging and nothing and nobody grows from a space in a state of judgment and shame. Yeah.
And I'm hearing one of my girlfriends who's my head coach in my certification program, who's a one in the Enneagram. And for those that don't know the Enneagram, it's this personality assessment test.
There's nine types. I did a podcast on it, so you can check it out if you're interested, but you know, 10 towards a one with like the perfectionistic that can also be filtered onto parenting.
Right. And so like the more self-aware we are as parents, the less we can get caught in some of those misunderstandings that it needs to be perfect or, you know, any of whatever our, our particular makeup is.
The other thing that's been really helpful besides the Enneagram is projection work. I really love Byron Katie's work.
I find it really powerful for any relationships. We also did a podcast with her, but just like judging our kids and really finding the projection within it.
They're like, you don't talk to me that way. It's like, oh, I'm talking that way.
And then the forgiveness on top of that, I think it's like take personal responsibility, but also forgive ourselves and make it right. I think those are really valuable and helpful hacks that I've discovered.
I'm curious if there's a parenting myth that you hear in the zeitgeist that you want to bust, that you think people should be aware that it's a myth that most may not know it's a myth. Good question.
I would say that this idea that we have to be hard on our children because the world is going to be hard on them. And that if we're not hard on them, they are not going to be able to function in the world and that they're going to be entitled or rude out in the world.
And so there really is this perception that gentle parenting is not or peaceful parenting isn't preparing children for interactions in school or interactions outside of our health. And it's just like it couldn't be any further from the truth.
And it's really important that we acknowledge that when we chip away at our children, when we be at their self-esteem, we are instilling in them beliefs that are not going to help and positively support them in the long run. And so maybe they are able to sit still and be quiet and follow directions in school.
Yes. But what are the internalized beliefs that are coming from how we are teaching them to do that? What happens when there is no space, no safe space to learn? What does that look like when you become an adult and you don't have someone micromanaging your entire life? Right.
And now you're responsible. Yeah, then they comply.
Or the opposite end of that is you've had someone micromanaging your entire life. Right.
And now you're, yeah, then they comply or the opposite end of that is you've had someone micromanage you for so long. And now that you do have control, what happens? What does life look like for you? And so I have seen in my personal experience and with parents in my community and clients that when we open up the space for collaboration and the space for them to develop their voice, and when we are intentionally not hard on them, it grows their self-esteem in a way that they are able to respect themselves out in the world and respect other people.
It's so important. Yeah, that is a long-term effect.
It's like, then we're not so susceptible to be taken advantage of or brainwashed or manipulated, right? Because we have our internal authority that's developed in our own compass that's been supported over years. Yeah.
And I would just invite parents to do these micro mini tests because micro macro, it's like if you have something out with one situation with your kid and see how it worked, you know, just to see. And then, oh, that worked.
And actually they are more loving and gentle and can repair and come back to their center. Maybe that would support in the long run.
Because I think of the same thing you're talking about. It was like the correctional system, going to jail, like how many people like go back.
And it's this like, think disciplining. It's micro macro.
So I just, it's so important. I just keep emphasizing what's being shared here and the work that you're doing.
I'm also curious if there's a lesson, like a powerful lesson that your kids have taught you or it's something that you've learned. I'm sure there's like a zillion, but one that kind of stands out was like, cause I really experienced you as moving through the world and listening and taking the lessons and course correcting.
And so I'm curious as a parent, if there's a story you want to share with us around that. You kind of touched on it earlier, but I think that the biggest one for me, that is still something that I'm navigating, have been navigating for a while, graciously navigating is the importance of anger.
And my oldest has taught me a completely

different relationship with anger. I had a very negative relationship with anger,

which was confusing because I was also still very angry. So I looked at it as like a bad thing,

as a shameful thing, but I could not help that I had the feeling. And so when my daughter started

to show me anger and started to express anger, it was very triggering for me. This was like

Thank you. painful thing, but I could not help that I had the feeling.
And so when my daughter started to show me anger and started to express anger, it was very triggering for me. This was like the first time in my life where I was like, I don't know if I like this person.
I don't want to be around. I don't want to be around you or I'm avoiding conflict because I'm disgusted at seeing you be angry and it triggered a lot of experience for how anger was responded to for me.
And she's taught me how important and valuable anger is as a messenger for our boundaries or a messenger for our needs and our desires. And she's really stretched me to be able to learn how to communicate anger in a nonviolent way without stuffing it and without exploding.
And that's just, it's like such a beautiful dance that we play. And then especially now with, she's a preteen, it's like each stage we get to experience anger in a different way and i'm just like really grateful for that because when it comes even for me i'm able to ask myself more questions and sit and understand myself so that whatever decision or action comes from it is not harmful to another person but also not harmful to me and not people pleasing.
Like, you know,

cause I've gone through those phases where it's like, I'm angry. So I'm going to lash out or I'm angry, but I shouldn't be angry.
Like, I don't want to get that angry woman trope. So let me not be too disagreeable.
Let me not express how I feel. And that girl advocates for herself So strong, like so strong.

And I have learned from her like how important it is to do that and not again tone police myself not fall into these respectability politics but really understanding like it's okay to be angry it's important to understand your anger and your well-being increases so much when you listen to it and don't ignore it or give it the steering wheel. Yeah.
Yeah. Not repress or, or overly express, like do it and really allow the emotion to be there.
And it makes sense, you know, just, and I love that you as a parent are looking at how are my kids helping me heal? How are they showing me something from my past that I can learn from and come into right relationships? So there's this like, that's any good relationship. It's not like a, I'm here to support you that you're supporting each other.
And that's more in balance and harmony, which is so beautiful. And I'm sure she appreciates and respects you more for doing that work.
Um, and you're modeling that. So lastly, I just want to ask if there's any daily rituals or practices that you do with your kids that are invaluable or something that you would love to pass on or share with other parents.
Yes. Oh my God.
I'm so big on like rituals. Um, routines are important.
That's like what we're doing, but rituals in terms of like how we want to feel when we're doing those things are so important to me it's summertime so rituals and routines are kind of like we're doing our best but when it's not summertime something that's really important to me is like our nighttime routine and our nighttime rituals and so that's when I spend a lot of time with regulation and it's really important to me that my kids like go to bed regulated and feeling safe and secure. So one thing that we will do at the end of the day is like notes and notes.
And it's basically like just the highs, three highs from the day, three lows from the day. And it's a really cool opportunity for me to like be connected and give my children space to share or to integrate their experiences and like create a cohesive narrative around things they're struggling with.
That's something that we do a lot. I also really enjoy my daughter and I are really big on like learning together.
And so trying something new together is a really important thing to us. So we'll like try acro yoga or we'll like go do a random class or something.
Being in growth with our children and then seeing us struggle and how we work through it together, I think is a really cool thing that we do. And then the last thing I will say is when I'm starting to notice the day is getting a little rocky or they're starting to be with each other or I'm starting to get frustrated, I'll just say, let's do so I'll say like, you know, what's three things that you hear right now to kind of just like drop back and ground in the moment.
That's like a group meditation. Yeah.
We'll just be driving. I'm like, what's three things that you see? What's, you know, three things that you feel.
And it kind of just drops us back into the present moment. And my daughter will sometimes

just ask me like, can you do that really quick? Like I'm feeling frustrated. I'm feeling anxious.

Like, can we just notice things really quick? But yeah, that's something that we do intentionally.

That's great. I love that because then she's also tracking when she's becoming dysregulated

and then she's got a practice that she can ask for and create connection around.

And that's beautiful. There's so many.
Yeah. Thank you for saying that.
I, I, I want to give her like praise for, for being able to do that. Cause that is something that is definitely her.
She is notices when she's getting dysregulated and sometimes like i'm just like okay like she's like mom i feel sad and i'm just like i wasn't allowed to feel sad like what do you mean like this is like going in my head you just you just said it two hours ago and it's like no there's like we have these waves of emotions internally and we're just not recognizing how powerful is it that she's like i'm not acting out i don need you to do anything. I just wanted to let you know, like, I just felt a little sad right now.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And I think that's so helpful.
Because we've kind of pendulum from being totally disconnected and pushing down our emotions or distracting ourselves from them. I think the pendulum goes to indulging or avoiding and really allowing and noticing.
And if we can stay ahead of it, then we can stay ahead of what we need to keep ourselves regulated and in balance. So bless that she has that and that she's got that modeled.
Yeah. And I love that you're going to recognize her for that.
I am. She's going to be like, okay.
I'm still going to do it. Yeah.
I'm still going to do it. She's at that phase where anything I say, any acknowledgement is like super cringe, but it's fine.
I'm going to keep practicing the muscle. She'll go through that phase and she'll be glad that I acknowledged.
That's right. And then she'll have that.
I think one of the things with my lineage is like, they really did appreciate and did a lot of gratitude. And I have that inherently within me.
I think sometimes we look at our lineage and our past, maybe do genealogy, which is like, what are the patterns in my family tree? And I think we look at the negative, but we can also look at the positive. And gratitude is one from my family, both sides of my family.
So I love that you embody it. And I'm so grateful that you did this podcast because I think what you're doing in the world is so important.
And I love, again, how you share and the vulnerability and the practicality of how you share. I know people are going to want to stay connected.
What do they hear about what you're up to and how do they stay connected? Yes, I am Destiny Ann on all socials. I have a parenting community.
I have a newsletter. There's so many ways to interact with me, but on social media, I am Destiny Ann and I love talking to my community and having conversations over there.
And it's so good. I love your...
I always... Every time I see you, I stop and I listen.
And again, it's applicable for parenting, but also for leading teams and any relationship. I used to...
It's leadership. It's all the same.
It's all the same. I love you.
I'm so grateful. Thank you for coming.
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