What Happens After We Die? Insights from a Near-Death Experience with Anita Moorjani | EP 51

The doctors had told my family that these were my final hours. They said I wasn't even going to make it through the night.
But unbeknownst to everyone around me, I had actually started to leave my body. And as I left my body, I noticed that I started to feel really light and free.
And I felt incredible. I was given a choice as to whether I wanted to come back or not.

No part of me wanted to come back because I was dancing for everybody else except me. Wow.
The cancer damn near killed you and I said no the cancer saved my life. I was killing myself.
If you feel it's selfish to take care of yourself, it's actually more selfish to take a miserable self out into the world than a joyful self who uplifts people just by being who you are. Yeah.
80% of people have regrets in their life. And I know this is a big thing when people are on their deathbed, they have common regrets.
What are some of the regrets you hear from people? Some of the biggest regrets they have is that we're in for an enlightening conversation where we're going to explore life beyond regrets, overcoming the fear of judgment, and hear what it's like from somebody who has died because our guest fell into a coma and was given hours to live. Today, we're joined by Anita Morjani, who's a New York Times bestselling author, and her near-death experience unlocked life-changing revelations that she's going to share with you throughout the podcast to help you live more free.
And so whether you're speaking spiritual guidance, facing a difficult time, you're wanting to find your true purpose, or simply curious about life's deeper questions, the wisdom and inspiration that she's going to share in this episode will forever change your perspective. I'm so happy that you're here, Anita.
I just want to share with you that when I read your first book, Dying to Be Me, I lost the fear of death. I think that's one of the best gifts that I received from any book.
And it was such a profound book in my life. So I want to say thank you for transmitting so much wisdom into that book.
And I would love to bring some of the listeners into that experience. Talk to us about where you were with your sickness and what the doctors told you in that moment.
Well, first of all, thank you so much for inviting me. And I'm so happy my book was able to help you.
So at that time, it was February of 2006. And I had been going through lymphoma for four years.
And I reached a point where I was at the critical end stage. The doctors had told my family that these were my final hours.
They said I wasn't even going to make it through the night. My organs had started shutting down.
I was in a coma. I'd gone into a coma.
And at that point, though, my body weighed about 85 pounds. And before I went into the coma, I wasn't able to walk, I wasn't even able to sit upright, like I couldn't put my head up, I was so weak, that my head would hang from my neck like this.
And my muscles had completely deteriorated, because my body wasn't absorbing nutrition. I had tumors.
So I had been diagnosed with lymphoma four years prior. And at this point, I had tumors the size of golf balls from the base of my skull, all around my neck, under my arms, in my chest, and all the down to my abdomen.
And I had these open skin lesions where toxins were coming out of my skin and my lungs were filled with fluid. And again, before I went into the coma, I wasn't even able to lie flat because when I would lie flat, I would choke on my own fluid.
So I always had to be propped up. And I had been in so much pain and so much fear and so much discomfort.
I feared the cancer, I feared death, I feared the treatment. And I was in so much pain and discomfort from all the things that was going on in my body.
And so then I went into the coma and that's when the doctors told my family, these are her final hours. Her organs are now shutting down.
Her kidneys have already shut down and she won't even make it through the night. But unbeknownst to everyone around me, so my family was surrounding me and they were distraught, I had actually started to leave my body.
And as I left my body, I noticed that I started to feel really light and free. And I felt incredible.
And I was aware that my physical body was on the hospital bed lying there. But I just felt so incredible.
And I felt like I was just enveloped in this feeling of what I call just love, unconditional love. There's no other words I can think of to describe it, but it's not just love as we know it in the physical world.
It was something so much more than that. And I felt powerful, magnificent.
And I wanted my family to know that I was fine. I felt amazing.
But I wasn't able to communicate that with them because I didn't have vocal cords. I didn't have a physical body.
I didn't have any biology, so to speak. I was aware of everything that was happening in the room.
I was aware of doctors and nurses rushing in and out. I was aware

that my body was connected to all these tubes. There were all these tubes in my veins and tubes down my throat.
And I was aware of all of that, but I felt nothing, no pain, nothing. I just felt so light.
And I was as if it was as if I was looking at my body on the bed, but from the outside, but at the same time, it's not the same as when you look at something with your physical eyes, because I had no physical eyes from this state. It was more like an awareness, like a 360 degree peripheral awareness.
So I could see everything all around and beyond the room that I was in. And I was aware of the conversations that the doctors were having with my husband, even outside the room.
And then I became aware that my doctor came in to the hospital room and started to remove fluid from my lungs because my lungs were constantly just filling with fluid. And they did that to ease my breathing.
But I also then started to feel myself, my spirit or my soul continue to expand and go deeper into this experience, which I didn't know it was an experience. I kind of thought that I kind of understood that I'm going through the dying process.
It felt so good that I wanted to keep going. And as I kept

going, and as I went deeper, I started to become aware that I was surrounded by other beings,

like family members and people who had transitioned before. One of them was my dad,

who had died 10 years prior. Another was my best friend who had died two years prior to me having this experience.
And they were there to comfort me. And there were other beings as well, but I didn't recognize all of them.
But all I felt from them was this pure, unconditional love. It was just the most incredible feeling.
It sounded like you, would you say that you were this unconditional love? Yes. Yes.
So there was, because you don't have a physical body, there's no physicalness. It was like, I didn't know where I began and where I ended.
I became everything. So even when I encountered my best friend and my dad and the other beings, I felt their love so strongly, like not as separate beings, but as if we melded together.
Even with my family that were distraught around my physical body, my physical family husband my mom my brother who were there in the hospital room and even the doctors and nurses I could feel what they were feeling it was like there was no separation I realized that when I am without my body and I am no longer physical and I am just this energy being the this soul or this spirit. There's no separation between me and other beings.
And I can feel what they're feeling. I know what they know.
I know what they want me to know. We don't need language.
We don't need to talk to each other. I just know what they want me to know.
And I felt my dad wanted me to know that he loved me unconditionally, but he didn't use words and I understood everything. And when I was growing up, I had a very turbulent relationship with my dad.
We never got along, but here on the other side, all I felt from him was unconditional love. And it's something that's even beyond forgiveness because forgiveness is still something that's a here thing when you're physical.
It's like someone has done something wrong or you perceive them to have done something wrong and you feel hurt and you go through a process and you forgive them. There's a lot of like trauma and a lot of judgment and a lot of processes.
On that side, there's none of that. It literally is your soul, my soul.
And I understand that when we are on this level where we are no longer in our physical body with all our physical baggage and our trauma and our lower vibration emotions, you know, all of that is gone and it is just your purest form and that person's purest form. All you feel is love for each other.
You don't even need forgiveness. There's this unspoken understanding that anything you did to hurt each other was done from the limitations of being here in the physical.
Profound. Profound.
There are so many questions I want to dive into, and I can feel the energy of which you're speaking from.

And so that transmission, I'm hoping people can feel that because it's very alive for me. And I'm curious from that near-death experience, I'm sure there were other insights and revelations that came from that, that you've lived into that you want people to know.
What would some of those be? Oh, there were so many, like really so many. One of them is that who we really are is incredibly powerful, much more powerful and magnificent than we have ever been led to believe.
We all think that we are just these physical bodies, but this physical body is just the tip of the iceberg. We are so much more.
There's so much more in this unseen world that is, there's more that's bigger, that's more powerful than there is in the seen world. And we take this physical body to be all we are.
We take this as being, you know, just like, yeah, literally all we are. This is who we are.
There's nothing beyond us. But in fact, what we are in this physical is an expression of the non-physical.
When you understand who you are in the non-physical, when you understand how powerful you are and you allow that light to shine through your physical, that's when you really begin to live. When you really understand that who you truly are and how powerful and how bright your light is.
I realized also that my entire life, I had never learned to love myself because I grew up believing it was selfish and egotistical to love yourself. I also grew up in a culture with gender disparity where women were less valued than men.
So I always felt less valuable as a woman and we were as a woman I women were less valued than men. So I always felt less valuable as a woman.
And we were, as a woman, women were rewarded for being subservient and for serving men in the culture. And so that's how I grew up.
But when I was on the other side, I realized there's no gender. I came here to be powerful and a full expression of myself.

And I realized that I'm as powerful as anybody, like literally anybody. There is nobody more powerful than me or less powerful than me.
Beautiful. And it really gave me a totally renewed sense of who I truly am.
And, oh, there was just so many things that I learned. I could go on for days.
And more than what I learned, it's what you feel. It's what you become from having that experience.
It's how it impacts you to your core.

And while I was there, I was given a choice as to whether I wanted to come back or not.

No part of me wanted to come back because my physical body was suffering and dying.

My family was suffering, taking care of me. There was no good reason to come back because my physical body was suffering and dying.
My family was suffering,

taking care of me. There was no good reason to come back.
But that's when I started to understand that my soul, my spirit is who I truly am. My spirit is always healthy and strong.
If I allowed that spirit and if I allowed what I had now learned to express itself through this physical body, my body would heal very, very quickly. I seemed to understand that.
And then my dad, on the other side, he actually also wanted me to know that I hadn't completed my purpose yet. And he encouraged me to come back.
He said that you need to go back and live your life fearlessly. Wow.
What an invitation. Yeah.
I was going to ask you how you identified before and after,

because you keep saying what I am, not who I am, which I'm very aware of that it's not a separate self identified with body mind. And a lot of what you've been speaking to are, are realizations that I've come to in spiritual unraveling.
And, and yet it's so, uh, grounded and such a clear expression. And so I And so I would love just to hear how you identified before and what your experience is now moving through the world.
So prior to this experience, I always believed that I had to prove myself. I had to do things to be worthy and deserving of love.
I also worked on being spiritual. I felt I had to.
No, nothing about that. Yeah.
Yeah. And that's so interesting because I always was beating myself up for not being spiritual enough.
And it's like, I would say, oh, what's the more spiritual choice? Or I need to be more spiritual. I need to meditate more, pray more.
I need to repress my ego more. I need to squash my ego.
After the near-death experience, I realized I am spiritual. We all are.
We're born spiritual. You cannot not be.
You just can't not be. You are a spiritual being.
And it is not about being more spiritual. It's about being yourself.
Because who you are at your core, your soul is a spiritual being. So being yourself and being spiritual are one and the same thing.
Amen. Yes.
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And I'm curious, did you have a spiritual, I forgot, but did you have a spiritual or religious upbringing before this experience? My parents were Hindu, but, um, you know, what affected me more was not the Hinduism per se, not the spirituality per se, but the cultural beliefs. There's a culture and there's a spirituality.
So in our culture, we had to, at least in the time that I was growing up, we had to follow certain cultural norms. But for example, if I said I was, even though my parents were Hindus and we went to a temple, if I said I was going to go to a church, my parents wouldn't have cared.
If I said I was going to go to a mosque, they wouldn't have cared. But what they cared about is culturally, was I towing the line? I had to have an arranged marriage.
I had to marry an Indian person. I could not move out before I was married.
I could not date. I could, you know, there was all these cultural things that I had to stick to.
And in our culture, at the time I was growing up and within the community I was in, there was a, you know, there was a lot of gender disparity and a woman's worth was measured by how valuable she was to the men in the community. So the cultural values are what impacted me so much more than the religion itself.
And your near-death experience completely just dissolved it. It dissolved it completely because I understood when we cross, all of that is a here thing.
All of it, including the religion, the gender. You leave all of that behind.
None of it exists on the other side. Everything, even the political stuff, like I look at the arena we're in today, none of that transcends.
None of that translates on the other side. The only thing we really take with us is our love.
That's what we look back on. Did I love enough? Did I care enough? Did I experience life enough? Did I express who I truly am? Did I shine my light? Yeah, it's so beautiful.
And for people listening to this now, like wanting a taste of this experience that you've had, but maybe feel guilt or selfish for prioritizing themselves, what wisdom would you share with them? First of all, I would say that you need to prioritize yourself if you want to actually be able to be of service and help in the world. I will give you the example of myself.
I was somebody who never prioritized myself. I was a complete doormat because I grew up learning to always be of service and to always diminish your ego because the ego is bad and always having to serve others and seeing God in other people's eyes and making myself small so others can be big.
And I was such a doormat and a people pleaser and always needing other people's approval. When I died, It was the first time I was able to see God in my own eyes.

And I realized that I had spent a lifetime of making myself small and diminishing myself to the point of becoming invisible and to the point of draining myself that I became sick. And so I tell people that if you are someone who is very

conscious about helping people, if you are someone who naturally, innately are someone that cares

about other people and helping other people and wanting the planet to be a better place,

the planet needs people like you. So you need to take care of yourself and put yourself first.
Yeah. It's so sometimes we know it and then just living it.
There's just some reminders we need. I think your story is so powerful to wake that back up in people.
You know, when people are thinking about being, living more authentically, more in alignment with themselves, what are some of the most common or biggest challenges that come up for them along the way?

So the biggest challenge about living authentically is when it ruffles other people's feathers.

The biggest fear people have is of other people's disapproval when they want to be themselves.

It's that.

It's like, fear people have is of other people's disapproval when they want to be themselves. It's that it's like, will it upset my family, my partner, my kids? Will I lose my community? Will, will I get their disapproval? Will I be shamed for it? Shame is a huge one that keeps us in line.
And so people don't want to be shamed. And this is why very often we do things we don't want to do.
And like a typical example is you may be in a job you hate just to be able to pay the bills and you don't have the courage to follow your dreams because you don't want to not be able to pay the bills or not take care of your family or appear to be struggling financially. Or you may be in a job that gives you a big home, a beautiful car and all these things, all these trappings, but you hate your job.
But it's almost shameful to give up on all the trappings because everybody around you knows you as having this beautiful car and this beautiful home and belonging to this beautiful club. And you can't give those up.
And so you're afraid of losing the community you're in. But what I tell people is that when we actually are willing to go inward and discover who we truly are and what we truly came here to express and be, when we have the courage to do that, first of all, you will be surprised as to how many people will actually support you.
You won't lose as many people as you think you will. There will be people who will actually say, I want you to be happy.
And those are the people who really love you. And those are the ones you want around.
Exactly. Those are the ones you want around.
You don't want the people who are only around you because of the trappings. And that they're benefiting from you conforming.
Exactly. Exactly right.
And then the other thing is that, because a typical argument that people have is that I can't change my life because my life currently pays the bills. I'll die if I don't pay the bills.
And what I feel like saying, and sometimes I bite my tongue, is that you're going to die if you don't be yourself because that is what will make you sick and drained. That's what happened to me.
And say more about that just for people like that's, that's how you're saying you got sick was not being authentic to yourself. Exactly.
I got sick because I was afraid of being myself. I got sick because I was trying to please everybody else around me.
I was trying to win everybody's approval. And here's the thing.
If there are 99 people in the room, and this is the person who I was, if there were 99 people in the room and 98 of them approved of me, but one disapproved, I would want to win the approval of that one. So in other words, I would become someone I'm not.
I would bend myself out of shape like a pretzel and become someone I'm not just to win that person's approval. And I learned that I cannot do that.
The only approval I need is my own. And I learned that I will never forsake myself, even if other people do.
And I got sick because I was dancing for everybody else except me. Wow.
So even the sickness was a redirect. It was helping you come back home to yourself to realign.
It was a gift. You know, people say the cancer damn near killed you.
And I said, no, the cancer saved my life. I was killing myself.
I was killing my soul. I was dimming my light.
And, you know, again, another thing I want to say is that if you don't take care of yourself, if you don't love yourself, if you don't feel joyful inside about what you're doing and passion for your life and you're miserable inside, you are taking yourself wherever you go. That's the energy that you're putting out into the world, into your family, into your community.
And if you feel it's selfish to take care of yourself, it's actually more selfish to take a miserable self out into the world than a joyful self who uplifts people just by being who you are. Yeah.
Yeah. I know in my own inquiry around this, we were talking about the Enneagram before you came on and I have a helper, a two wing and I've really looked at, it feels like it would be disrespectful if I were happy and people around me weren't, you know, and having been a former licensed psychotherapist, I had to really unwind some of that.
And in my questioning, cause part of my spiritual practice is meditation and inquiry, questioning who I am, all these stories that I've bought into culturally, all the different narratives. And I realized what you're just speaking to, which is like, okay, if I'm centered and okay, I can still be present with, for example, my brother who's having a hard time, but I don't need to bring myself down.
Like if I were a therapist and challenged by my clients' experiences, I'm not of support and service to them. So we can sometimes again, know it, but really for me, inquiry and really looking at when I'm good, I bring that energy wherever I am.
Yes. And you do.
And I think one of the things that's lacking in our, I guess, in our reality, in our culture, in the way that we're all brought up generally, is that we're not aware that we are more than this physical body. And who we are is much bigger and greater.
And we don't have the language to describe it because, you know, it's very much dismissed

everything to do with the afterlife, with our soul, with our spirit.

But the way that I would give this language is that if you could imagine that you are

actually a ball of energy, right?

And if you are somebody that is truly joyful and happy and you love your life, let's say at maximum, your maximum, at your maximum energy level, you shine at a hundred, like a hundred watt glow of energy. And so wherever you go, you bring this light with you.
So when people are only at a 10 or a 5 or a negative because they're depressed, because they're going through stuff, you just being in the room with them, you uplift them and their energy goes up because they're feeding off of your energy. So you really have two choices.
You can either go in the room with people who are unhappy, bring your energy right down to theirs, or you can hold your energy at 100 and have them entrained to you, have them uplift with you. So if you see yourself as energy, when people truly understand this, they realize the importance of shining at their fullest by doing whatever it takes to get their energy up.
And it's not selfish at all because you have more to give just by your presence. But if you allow yourself to get caught up with everybody else's problems, and sometimes I admit to people that I don't watch the news and people say, how can you do that? I mean, you're just burying your head in the sand and it doesn't mean those things are not happening.
But my point is, when I don't watch the news, I'm able to expand my energy. And this is the energy I want to personally contribute into the world.
And the more of us that took responsibility for uplifting our own energy, we could actually uplift the world. The problem right now is that we are being entrained downwards by all the loud noise.
Very biased opinions and perspectives. Yes.
And so we're being entrained downwards and our lights are getting dimmed. The more that we are following mainstream media and then one of the things that really dims your energy is fear.
And so when you're constantly hearing messages, fear-based messages all the time, your energy starts to go down. Yeah.
And that's the energy you take into the world with you. And I refuse to do that.
Yeah. That your energy is the contribution.
Yes. Is one form of that.
And when you were talking about this, this light, that's full wattage, you know, I, it's, it's almost like there's no separation. And so as I'm more lit up, it's also lighting up the hole And we get to honor the emotions.
If there's grief or sadness, like that's actually welcome too. We can honor them.
We don't have to live there, but we say yes to them to integrate them. But as you were talking about really shining your light and owning your radiance, I'm also hearing people with upper limits like, oh, if I shine too big, that's a threat.

You know, what would you say for people that feel challenged by if I'm shining too much, I'm worried how that's going to affect other people? So I would say that actually they don't need to worry and probably they'd have to work through a few things to ask themselves. Why do they worry? Because one of the problems that our world suffers from right now is that there's too little positive energy, not too much.
So you never have to worry about shining too much. Because another question I get asked is because I say it's really important to love yourself.
The more you love yourself, the more radiant you are and the more love you have for other people. And so I get often get asked that when is, um, when is self-love too much self-love? And I say, there's no such thing.
There's no such thing at all because, um, this world right now suffers from too little love, way too little. And there's a big difference between, And, you know, people worry, they say, is it egotistical to love yourself? No, it is not.
There's a big difference between being egotistical or having a healthy ego. Yeah, we want healthy integrated egos.
We do. 100%.
It's just not who we are. It's just, it's the psyche.
It's the way that we've learned to keep the body safe. It's all good.
It's just not who we are. Exactly.
And I know that you talk about being authentic is more important than being positive. Yes.
And like pleasing is weak, but loving is powerful. So, so talk to us about this.
Yes. So being kind is important to me, but being authentic is more important than being positive.
So it isn't about positive thinking, but it is about being who you are. It's about honoring who you really are.
Because a lot of people think, believe that, oh, I have to stay positive. I can't think of negative thoughts.
And then we get afraid of our negative thoughts. And then when we feel fear about something, we start to fear the fear.
It's like, oh, am I attracting it now because my thoughts are negative? No, absolutely not. Allow yourself to feel everything.
Because when you start judging your thoughts and you start judging that, oh no, I've got a fear-based thought or I've got a negative thought, what you're actually doing is you're judging yourself and you're telling yourself that who I am right now is wrong. No, it's about full self-acceptance.
It's completely accepting who you are right now in this moment, whether it's fears and all flaws and whatever it is and being good with where you are and starting from there. Yeah.
Embracing all of you. Embrace all of you as you are.
Yeah. And I think it's helpful to have certain relationships where that's actually lived into.
I have one of my best friends. We always tell each other, like, I want your truth more than what you think I want to hear.
So practicing that in relationships. So it's, it's less conceptual, but it's really lived and having those safe relationships to say, I'm nervous.
You're going to not like what I'm going to say. And I need to speak my truth.
Can you hear this? And so really practicing in at least in like having one relationship where you can do that. And then it becomes more, uh more natural for all our relationships to reflect that way.
Yes, that's actually very, very healthy and very helpful. And I don't know if this is a blessing or a curse, but my husband is someone who is able to be brutally honest.
And when I ask him to be, he's also very, very kind and very loving and very caring, but he's someone who doesn't mince words. And so he gives me permission.
It gives me permission to safely also speak my truth. And when I am able to speak it to him, I don't necessarily feel this need to share it with other people.

I'm just realizing because I know he is an eight in the Enneagram and my best friend that was telling me this is also an eight.

So I think that's part of the gifts of the challenger.

That's like, yes, I want your truth.

And so I would say if you have any challenger friends or people in your world, you can start with them because they're going to honor and respect your truth.

They like it direct. Yeah.
That's beautiful. Oh, that's interesting.

They're both eight. And I know with people, I think there's the current research is people like

80% of people have regrets in their life. And I know this is a big thing when people are on their

deathbed, they have common regrets. What are some of the regrets you hear from people? How would you

suggest that they transform them to live more in alignment now without them um some of the biggest regrets they have is that they didn't forgive certain people they didn't reach out to certain people they didn't love enough um they wish they showed their love to certain people who they held back because of pride or ego or whatever. And also that they spent too much time on things that don't matter at the end of life.
They spent too much time working, not enough time with family. they regret not spending more time playing, enjoying, and being fully themselves.
They spent too much time trying to win other people's approval. Those are some of the big regrets.
Yeah. And I really hear how your story can inspire them to really focus on love and to prioritize their truth and to live more in alignment with that.
Yes. It really is about living from your soul as opposed to from the physical image that you have been conditioned to buy into.
Because the physical image comes with all the baggage of your culture, your community, your race, your religion, your gender, all of that. It really is about asking yourself deep down, your soul, why did I come here? Who did I come here to be? What are my real deep down desires? Even asking yourself questions like, what would it mean to get every single one of my needs met? What would that look like? If I felt completely satiated, what does that look like? What does that mean to me? And those are the clues that tell you who you are and why you came here and what your longings are.
I love that inquiry of just taking it further, going a little bit deeper. I know, because I was going to ask you for people that are like, I want one Anita had.
I want some of your experience. And I'm curious, you know, for me, it's about meditation.
Just stillness has been a really powerful practice, tuning in beyond the mind. The other one is inquiry, which is, you had just shared a form of inquiry.
What would it look like to get all my needs met? What does bring me aliveness or self-inquiry? Can I really know that I am this body? Can I really know that who I am are my thoughts? What's beyond, what can see the thoughts, what's looking through these eyes? So some of these deeper inquiries are also important for people that are wanting to experience more of this. Are there any practices or rituals that you recommend for people? So I do actually recommend different practices.
Like one of them is, so here's a practice that I recommend to people is that I ask people to actually evaluate each day, their day, take any sample day and all the things that you do in your day, evaluate how many of the things that you do actually elevate your energy and how many of the things that you do actually de-escalate, do the opposite, like deplete your energy and go through your average day. So as an example, you wake up in the morning and you go to work.
Do you love your work? Does the work that you're in, are you doing it just to pay the bills? Does it deplete your energy? How do you feel about your boss? Or if you're the boss, how do you feel about your team or your colleagues? And so ask yourself these questions during the course of the day. Is your energy going up? Is it going down? Is it going up? And then at the end of the day, you're going home.
Do you live alone? How do you feel about living alone? Do you go out with friends? Or do you have a partner at home, someone you live with? How is your relationship? All these things in the day. I actually, I really go deep with people if I'm in a workshop.
And I ask them to grade them with a number. And we come up with a number at the end of your average day, whether you're at a plus or at a minus, because the idea here is to really to dig deep as to living your best life.
And so the clues into why your soul came here is that the higher the score you give something that you're doing, the more that's

a clue that your soul wants more of that. So the energy and the aliveness from it is more in

alignment, you're saying? Yes, the energy and the aliveness. So I mean, to take it even further,

what I do is I tell people like, let's pretend, let's give energy a currency. And let's pretend

that a good night's sleep gives you 12 units of energy currency. So you wake up in the morning

with me. give energy a currency.
And let's pretend that a good night's sleep gives you 12 units of energy currency. So you wake up in the morning with 12 units of currency.
How are you going to spend those 12 units? And so we go through the day and I say, in your job, does your job cost you a lot or does it feed you? Do you find that it's actually giving you energy? Do you come home from work? Like, you know, you had 12 units this morning when you went in. Do you come home now having a total of 15 or 20? Or do you come home having two because you don't like your job or your boss bullies you? So these are, this is how I have them evaluate so that they can then see that, okay, I do need to really look for other work.
But here's the thing, when they say, okay, on the weekend, I go, this is what I do. I'm in my art studio and I'm painting and that's how my energy shoots right up.
At the end of the day, I have 20 units of energy. And the following morning with 12 units from my sleep, I wake up with 32 units of energy.
And I'm like, why aren't you doing your art all the time? That's your soul telling you that's your purpose. That's part of your purpose.
So if you actually start to look at your energy as currency, see what's feeding your energy and what's depleting it, that really, that helps to tell you what your soul desires and what your soul came here to do. I love that.
I love the regularly checking in so that you're auditing and bringing more awareness to it. I recently started doing this around self-honoring choices, living in alignment, but I did it as a rating scale from one to 10.
So one being, um, just feeling like I was doing things out of obligation and 10 being lit up, synchronicity on purpose, feeling really aligned. And then every day I would be like, Oh, I was at an eight on average today, or, you know, just to give myself a baseline.
And just by tracking that every day, it's helped me bring more awareness and start making other choices that feel more vibrant and alive. I love that.
I was going to ask you because I would say 70, just based on research, 70% of people feel disconnected from their purpose. So this is, I would imagine, something that they can do to start identifying what is their purpose.
Yes, it is. And your purpose is not necessarily doing a specific thing, but you can tell you're on purpose when you feel a certain way.
Your soul feels alive. And certain things that you do make you feel that way.
Sometimes it's the thing you're

doing. Sometimes it's also the reactions you're getting from people.
And so I love the way that

you're doing it, the rating. Yeah, the rating scale.
And also how we're doing it. Like,

what are the values that I'm expressing? Is it the creativity or is it really art?

And can I bring that creativity into my writing or into my meetings, right? So that people feel

Thank you. the values that I'm expressing, right? Is it the creativity or is it really art? And can I bring that creativity into my writing or into my meetings, right? So that people feel encouraged because sometimes it's the how, not just the what, but sometimes it's the what I definitely would not thrive in an economics career.
And that's good to know. And then other times it's like, oh, I can bring more of this value into my life.
Like for example, my top five values are connection, growth, truth, love, and service. And when I was building my business, I went, I started moving it online in 2017 and I wasn't as fulfilled, but I realized I didn't have connection.
I was selling online courses rather than connecting with my clients. And so that was good information.
I don't want to just throw the baby out with the bathwater. I hate that analogy, but you know what I mean? And so I've started bringing connection in and I was like, oh, I can do my certification program and watch my clients change their life.
So the values are also helpful, I find. Yeah.
Wow. I like that a lot.
You know, when during COVID, I could no longer do my live physical events, but the online things took off.

And so we were blessed that we were still working really hard right through on the online

things.

But I started to feel depleted.

And I found, and I realized at the end of a couple of years of not going on and seeing

the people in live events, I started to realize that that feeds me. It feeds my energy.
I really started to get depleted just doing online and there was a lot of demand for it, but I, um, I started to get burned out in a way that I never would have if I was doing physical events. And we're all designed differently.
So I love that with your exercise, you can pay more attention to what feeds us, what gives us alignment, and then reverse engineer creating a career or our lifestyle around that. Yes, exactly.
I want to bring it back to this moment. I think I heard you say that at this point of death, you could choose to stay in the non-physical or come back.
Is that accurate? Can you talk to us about this? That's accurate. So I was given a choice.
It was almost like I reached a fork. You know, I can even remember.
It was like there were two paths and I could choose like two doorways, which doorway to go through. But I was told that if I continued to go, so I was on the path to go deeper into, into death, basically.
But I was told that now, if you continue going this way, you won't be able to turn back. This is as far as you can go.
But I wanted to keep going. And, and so I was then shown that if I chose to go back, that there were these gifts waiting for me here.
And I was shown glimpses of a potential future here that were yet to come if I chose to come back. And I was also shown that my husband, Danny's purpose was linked to my purpose.

And if I didn't go back, he wouldn't be able to fulfill his purpose either. Wow.
That we had come here together to fulfill a purpose together. That's beautiful.
Yeah. How did you experience or how do you define purpose now? I would define purpose as what my soul intended to complete when it made the decision to come here to express itself as me.
So my soul's intention is my purpose. And I may not always know it, but there is a way to align yourself with a soul that even if you don't know the ultimate purpose, but if you're walking the journey that's aligned with your soul, you feel like you're on purpose.
So for me, my purpose isn't a destination. It's a constant aligning with my soul.
and it's so helpful for people to hear that because sometimes they're like oh if i'm doing a certain thing or and what i'm hearing you say is that the feeling of aliveness of you'll feel

that alignment that, that, and by keeping track of what gives you energy and those synchronicities, those are important to just follow the breadcrumbs. Exactly.
Exactly. And, and you can feel it.
You feel the passion. You feel that, oh, this is the path I meant to go.

Oh, this feels right.

This feels good.

Like I wouldn't change what I'm doing today for anything.

I still have pitfalls.

I still struggle with things.

We all have, there's issues.

There's sometimes like you want things a certain way

and it doesn't go that way.

But there's no part of me that would change the life I have today for anything else.

That's beautiful.

I really hear you would do it regardless.

Yes.

And for me, it's similar with live events.

At the end, when I'm doing it, I feel really alive.

And at the end, I feel tired, but I was used in a way that feels really good.

Like I was used and I feel proud of that. I feel like, yeah, there's an alignment, which I'm really grateful for.
Even if there's fatigue, it's like, oof, I feel grateful for it. Yeah.
That's exactly how I feel. Yes.
I love the live events and speaking to people, actual physical people. Yes.
And so what would you share with people who may be having a difficult time right now or facing a serious illness?

What kind of words of wisdom would you share with them?

So I would say focus on your, again, your purpose, but the way I said it, on your soul's intention.

And I would say the way to do that for you if you're facing a physical illness is create a future, even if it's in your mind of an ideal future that you want to live, if you had a hundred percent health. So if you, if the doctor said to you today, that you have a clean bill of health, you're fine.
You're a hundred percent fine. So on hearing that, what are you going to do? How are you going to celebrate? And how are you going to live the rest of your life? Start planning for that life now.
Beautiful. And I'm curious what you feel like the role of the mind and the spirit play in physical healing.
So I feel the mind is the tool that helps the spirit to actually manifest in this physical world what the spirit came here to be or to express. Hence, scripting your future, hence really looking at how it does work out and getting into alignment with that.
Yes. So our mind and our imagination is like the window to our soul.
So if you let your mind run free and create your ideal future, it actually, when you just let yourself create, this is my ideal future. This is what I see myself doing.
What will start to come out is glimpses, maybe even not just glimpses, but whole pictures

of what your soul intended for you for this lifetime. But you have somehow repressed yourself and not allowed yourself to have those dreams or to feel yourself into manifesting those.
But once you open up your mind and your imagination,

your soul starts to give you pictures and images of what it had intended for you.

And when you feel that feeling of excitement because of what your mind is creating,

that is your soul's way of saying, yes, yes, that's it. That's what I wanted for you in this

life. It's in alignment.
Keep moving. Yes, keep moving.
Yeah. For people that are wanting to really tap into some spiritual guidance in their life, they're like, I'm hearing this and I want to have more direct access.
Are there any practices or anything that you would recommend for them to learn how to attune and listen? So the biggest thing is to get quiet and to listen. And you can do it at night before you go to sleep or in the morning while you're still in bed before you get out or take time out during the day with music or go out in nature.
There's many ways of doing it. But the biggest thing is to find that quiet space where you allow the messages to come in, where you allow your soul, your higher self, or even our loved ones on the other side to send their messages.
The messages come in the form of thought and they feel exciting when you feel that little bit of upliftment. Those are the messages.
If you get fear-based thoughts, those are not messages. Those are your mind playing with you.
And here's the other thing to watch out for. The happier you are, the easier it is to get messages.
So the more that you are stuck in, let's say, listening to the news every day, the harder it is for you to hear those messages. So it is like when you're stuck in fear and when you're stuck in feeling all the us versus them and they're wrong and all these feelings, these are the very denser energy emotions.
Like they have a much denser and heavier energy within you, within your emotional field. And they're not as powerful.
They're not as powerful. So people don't have to fear if they have negativity, they don't have to fear attracting that.
You don't have to fear it at all. But what I would suggest you do, don't fear it, but take yourself out of that.
Stop watching the news for a while. Take yourself out in nature, go by the ocean, go to the mountains,

whatever's your thing, and start feeling life, physical life. Hang out with people who you love, who make you laugh.
Laughter is a great way of raising your energy. And the more you start to do things like that, and then you find a quiet time,

you'll start to hear the messages. You'll start to feel your soul, your soul's intention.
What I tell people is that we actually have one foot on each side, but we don't realize it. In other words, we are a soul,

but we also have a foot here in the physical body. Human being.
Yes, human and being. And the problem is most of us are more entrenched in the human, in the physical.
what we can see what we can see and then we become even more entrenched in the human, in the physical. What we can see.
What we can see. And then we become even more entrenched when we immerse ourselves in all the issues and the fears all around us.
And we do that by constantly, again, mainstream media, social media to an extent. And so we tend to entrench ourselves more in the physical.
I actually encourage people to realize that you are a non-physical being who is expressing yourself through the physical. And being in the physical is important because, you know, we do have to pay our bills and keep our relationship with people happy.
So we have to focus on the physical. But we also have to give a lot of attention to the non-physical by taking some time out, some time in quiet, so that the non-physical part of us can actually come through and express itself through this physical vehicle.
And that radiance has form to share and serve and expression. Everything you're saying, it's so lit up inside of me because I've always said, I was going to write a book called Stillness and Stilettos, like a foot in both worlds.
And to me, it's not, it's like, it's not clenching my hand. So caught in the physical, it's not so surrendered that there's no real ground.
It's, it's yes. And it's kind of this like open fist in palm.
Um, because when my life has gone too far in the 3d and really the material world, there's illusion and confusion. And then when it's too far, the pendulum has swung in a lot of silent retreats, down over 20 silent retreats.
It also doesn't feel true. And so what I'm really hearing feels so aligned for me is taking that time.
I find the morning really helpful before getting into the day to just open and listen. And even if the mind is active, just watching, observing the mind rather than getting absorbed by it and just being, and then from that place into form as form, all of it.
So I love what you're sharing. That feels so true in alignment.
I think I've definitely done the monk thing prior to this. And I know that, and you know, the pendulum has swung a bit, but it's just that integration of being and doing.
Yes, and feminine, masculine. Yes, 100%.
You've got it 100%. And you can easily tell when someone is way too much in the spiritual because they really struggle with the physical world.
I've been there. Or when someone's way too entrenched in the 3D.
Yep. They live in this world of fear and distrust and so on.
Yeah. And I remembered what I was going to say earlier when you were talking about, you know, having a vision for if you are sick or if you're wanting to, you know, like focus on more than just your current situation, coming into visioning and like really designing the life that you're wanting to live as you're healthy.
And I think one of the things that holds people back is thinking that if they dream it, they'll be disappointed if it doesn't happen. And my experience is dreaming and letting yourself vision is totally innocent and doesn't hurt.
It's the attachment that hurts. So if I'm like, I have to be happy if I'm healthy, we can't necessarily control that.
Or I have to be happy when I get the partner, lose the weight, get the job, whatever it is. The attachment is what hurts.
So I just want to give people permission. It's okay to dream and taking that surrendered action.
We can take steps, high involvement, low attachment. Yes.
In fact, dreaming and allowing your mind to really go free is important. And what you say about the attachment, yes, after you've dreamt your dream, let it go.
Let it take shape in whatever it's meant to. Because the way you get there may not be the way you planned.

So you have to just dream the dream and then let it go.

Just let it float like a balloon or something. Because if anybody were to ask me, how did I get from where I was, from lying in a hospital bed, dying from cancer, like end stage dying from cancer to where I am today, writing books, traveling the world and speaking on stage, I wouldn't have a clue how to get from there to you.
And I say that because all I did was aligned myself with what was coming to me in the form of visions. We have to give ourselves permission to just allow your imagination because your imagination is the window to your soul and your soul's intention.
So you're so poetic. It's so beautiful.
It's, it's this dance of make it happen and allow it to happen. Yeah.
It's that doing and being. So visioning and writing it, scripting it, and letting it go is the surrender.

Yeah, exactly.

I keep hearing and coming back to this inquiry.

I'm seeing you in the hospital, and you've got your loved ones around,

and the doctor is saying, say your final goodbyes.

What would you, for the people that are in the hospital, you know, what would you, what would you want the loved ones to know? You know, cause not everyone comes back and I'm just curious if there was any words of wisdom for somebody in that situation. So I would want the loved ones to know that, um, if there's somebody in your life who is crossing over or has just crossed over, they are in a beautiful space.
You don't have to worry about them at all. Regardless of what circumstances it was that took their lives, they are still in a beautiful space.
People have fear that they are either being held back somewhere or trapped somewhere or being punished. None of that is true.
I want to assure people that none of that is true. Your loved ones are wanting to help you heal your grief, but you don't have to do anything for them.
And they are completely fine. They are free.
And also know that even if you wanted them to heal and they didn't heal, not healing doesn't mean they lost the battle. Maybe it was their time.
Maybe they felt they could do more from that side. The fact that they didn't come back does not mean that they don't love you or that they don't love you enough.
That's absolutely not true. Because we always make the most unconditionally loving choice, always from that perspective.
When we are without our physical bodies, all we feel is unconditional love for everybody around us.

So if I believed that it was more loving to my family to help them from that side, I would have stayed on that side.

So beautiful.

So beautiful.

And I know it's going to serve so many people hearing that because I know how much people stress and have anxiety in their day-to-day lives. And it's ironic that by facing death, it helps us live more free.
It's interesting. In the beginning of my spiritual journey, I was really had my achiever.
In the very beginning, it was just what was natural and clear when I was a kid. And as I started getting into my silent retreats and meditation retreats, my achiever, three personalities started coming in and like making enlightenment a goal, which was funny in and of itself.
But the more I dive into spirituality, the more I keep hearing about joy, the more it feels that it's about expression and loving. And that feels so true.
And I see dogs, I see animals, and they're just singing and playing. And that's our natural state.
Yes, it is. And so I know with people that feel so much of that anxiety in their lives and that stress, in terms of words of wisdom to help them relax some of that fear-based mind and just really settle into their soul, into the truth of their being.
Yes. Yeah.
What would you share? I would want people to know that their soul actually is never miserable. It's always whole.
And that's your true state of being. So if you are feeling anxious and fearful, just know that it means you've bought into something from this physical world, this 3D world.
You've bought into a belief which isn't real. It isn't true.
Anything that feels fearful or causes you anxiety isn't actually true. And your true nature is one of feeling whole, healed, joyful, playful.
That's who you truly are. Because you look at children, at babies, they giggle, they laugh, they play.
That's your true nature. So find your way back to that.
Find your way back to playfulness. find yourself back to your true nature.
And I always tell people, if all else fails, eat chocolate. I knew I loved you.
I have about a bar a day. I love dark chocolate.
I am with you. Anita, you are such a breath of fresh air, a well of wisdom and poetry.

And every time I connect with you through your stories and now through here, I just feel this sense of ease, but also delight.

So thank you for your expression.

Thank you for living your truth.

Thank you for coming back to share all of your gifts.

And I know people are going to want to stay connected.

Please share with us.

How do we learn more from you? Wow.

Thank you so much. Let's, you're lovely and so articulate.
Um, I would love for people to connect with me through my social media. First of all, I have a lot of videos on YouTube.
I would love for people to subscribe to my channel or on my Instagram, Facebook. My website is anitamurjani.com.
And I also have an online platform called the anitamurjani sanctuary.com. And it is such a sanctuary.
You are such a living sanctuary in prayer. Thank you for being here.
Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the world starting with yourself.
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