How to Live Free + Overcome People Pleasing with Byron Katie | EP 45

I like to share it as my business, your business, and God's business. And if I get into yours, you know, I'm out of mine.
And no wonder I'm lost. I'm lost.
You know, I'm just guessing. You are, they are, the world is, and I am.
But if I stay in my business, then I can understand myself. And in that, I can better understand the world with more compassion and understanding and judgments fall away.
It's just a beautiful thing to be present and present doesn't mean dumb. It means a listener and in that there's laughter and connection and a space to join in or not And it allows us to be a part of the community of the world and not have to hang out with safe people, people we believe we're safe.
It doesn't mean that we don't, but it's not out of fear. Welcome.
I'm Alyssa Nobriga, your host of the Healing and Human Potential podcast, a place for you to discover the multidimensionality of what it means to be human. Over the past 20 years, I've trained thousands of coaches in my methodology, leveraging my experience as a former psychotherapist, and I'm here to share with you all the wisdom and insights that I've learned along the way.
Each week, I'll share with you life-changing tools to support you in awakening and manifesting your dream life from the inside out. We'll be exploring the intersection between ancient wisdom and modern everyday life, really diving deep into the art of human potential through the lens of psychology, spirituality, and coaching.
Let's let the magic unfold. I have a very special guest for you today on the podcast, one of my spiritual teachers and dear friends who is an author.
She's a speaker and she's really touched millions of people's lives around the world. We have the one and only Byron Katie today on the podcast.
And I want to give you a taste of the magic this woman carries with a really open and clear mind. So I'm going to read to you a section of her book, A Thousand Names for Joy.
This is essentially her experience of when she was at gunpoint, and you can kind of see the depth of work that is available for all of us when we live beyond fear.

A man sticks a pistol into my stomach, pulls back the hammer and says, I'm going to kill you.

I'm shocked that he's taking his thoughts so seriously.

Does somebody identify it as an I?

The thought of killing causes guilt that leads to a life of suffering.

So I ask him as kindly as I can not to do it.

I don't tell him that it's his suffering that I'm thinking of.

He says he has to do it and I

understand. I remember believing that I had to do things in my old life.
I thanked him for doing the

best he can and I noticed that I'm fascinated. Is this how she dies? Is this how the story ends?

And as joy continues to fill me I find it miraculous that the story is still going on. You can never know the ending, even as it ends.
I'm very moved at the sight of the sky, the clouds, the moonlit trees. I love that I don't miss one moment, one breath of this amazing life.
I wait and wait. And in the end, he doesn't pull the

trigger. He doesn't do that to himself.
What we call quote unquote bad and what we call quote

unquote good both come from the same place. The Tao Te Ching says that the source of everything

is called darkness. What a beautiful name if we must name it.
Darkness is our source. In the end, it embraces everything.
Its nature is love. In our confusion, we name it terror, ugliness, and the unacceptable, unbearable.
All our stress results from what we imagine is in that darkness. We imagine darkness as separate from ourselves and we project something terrible onto it.
But in reality, the darkness is always benevolent. It doesn't change.
And when you realize this, you just have to laugh. There's nothing serious about life or death.

That's powerful. And that's available in my experience, the more we wake up from the fear-based mind and her process for doing that, which I'll demonstrate in today's session, vulnerably, honestly, around a topic that I think a lot of people can relate to, which is wanting people to like them.
And so I'm going to share authentically about my experience. She'll do the work with me so that you can see how you can apply this work to your own life.
Yay. I'm so happy.
I'm so happy. This is such a moment.
I've wanted this as much as you have. I just love you so much.
And I'm here to just connect and drop in with you and also share the power of the work in the world because I've had so many years. I was reflecting.
It's been 18 years since I've been doing the work and every week, the last six years as a regular routine. And to me, you know, I want to share you with the, with my audience, but I also want to share the work because I find it to be the cleanest mindset tool that really works on any thought anywhere for free.
I remember when I found the work, I was thinking it doesn't matter what happens in life, whether I'm in jail, I become homeless because I know the power of questioning my thoughts, I know I'll find my okayness in any situation. It's that powerful.
And so it is. Yeah.
And I

know you have a dramatic and very powerful before and after story. I know part of your awakening

story was that you were a goer phobic for people that don't know what that means. It's you're too

afraid to leave the house. And for you, I remember you telling me that it was, you know, bedridden

And it's... awakening story was that you were a goer phobic for people that don't know what that means.
It's you're too afraid to leave the house. And for you, I remember you telling me that it was, you know, bedridden in some ways you would not even leave the room.
Oh my goodness. Yeah.
And so tell us, cause I know you went to a halfway house and when we were in Costa Rica, you were sharing that you were in the attic of a halfway house. Share with us a little bit, just so we have a context about that moment of transformation, of awakening, so people get a sense for the power of this.
And it's not about where I was. It wasn't about any of that.
It's just, I was asleep, Like every person in the world, We sleep within a 24 hour period and and as and we dream or we don't. And and I was on the floor, you know, the suffering human being.
And for whatever reason, a cockroach crawled over my foot. I was in a dead sleep on the floor because my esteem was so low and I was so full of self-loathing.
I didn't believe I deserved a bed to sleep in. And it was right there with me in this little room.
And so sleeping on the floor and this bug crawled over my foot and I'm in this, let's say, this dead sleep. And I opened my eyes and before the ego could grab onto that identity to identify as I, I am the woman on the floor.
Before any of that could happen, I saw the space that cockroach gave me. I saw like a window.
There was a window in the room, but I didn't know it was a window. I had no reference in that space before the

ego could. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Hypnotize make reference. Yeah.
Yeah. Like trance me.
I saw And then I heard the word window.

And that's when I began to laugh.

And I didn't laugh on purpose. It's just this laughter.
It was the first sound that came out of what I used to refer as the first sound that came out of it because it was still unidentified as object body. So I began to laugh.
And then I saw, I saw

and heard the word wall and then ceiling and then light coming from the window. And it, It was, and that is the birth of, of and that's where and people would say you know what is it what happened you're an agoraphobic someone years years of depression and and um with no way out and And, you know, I might just, you know, all that fear of leaving the home, I might just walk out the door at home for no reason and not know where I was going in absolute clarity that it's a beautiful world.
Yeah. A beautiful world without downside, without opposite.
Now, how can I say that, you know, and people were asking me, what, what, what is your freedom? I put people in my position, the position on the floor with these questions. I would say, you know, they would fill in like

I saw the mind work.

So what? the position on the floor with these questions. I would say, you know, they would fill in like, I saw the mind work.
So one through six on what I call the judge your neighbor worksheets, one through six. So that is, that's the world and it covers it.
It covers it all without exception. It is like, I want, I need, they shouldn't.

There are only six things we do and the ego offers up. And then there are variations of that.
So we remain in this hypnotic trance. So I give people opportunity to to anchor.
Just be then now, you know, be there in time now when your feelings were hurt or someone said something or you were fear maybe to leave your home like I was or you're you're judging your children, your spouse, your your you know, your spouse, your workplace. It doesn't matter.
Just fill in that worksheet for what you're believing in any given situation where you feel hurt or stress, depression. You just anchor in that situation.
So you meditate in that time and place. Yeah.
And you identify the thoughts that that that that Judge and Neighbor worksheet supports you to anchor in. And there's the cause of your suffering.
What is the cause of our suffering? What we're thinking and believing in any given time or situation. It doesn't matter.
There it is. And I also refer to it sometimes as checkmate.
You know, there's the cause of your suffering. There it is.
And it doesn't matter if it was one minute ago or 10 years ago or, you know, it just doesn't matter. If we just move it from our head to paper, the things we resent, the people we resent, the people, et cetera.
So, and then we questioned them. And so that is what I experienced on the floor as well, in a way that puts people in that position and any time and place.
And then people look at what's on their worksheet one belief at a time. And they question what they're believing.
And then they find an opposite, just like I saw on the floor window. And the laughter was, it's not a window.
I mean, that can never be. It's a trance.
It's just like I did it. And I can put words to it now.
There were no words then. It was self-realized.
Yeah. So I hear that you were, there was a deep depression and suffering.
And in that moment of not feeling worthy on the ground, for whatever reason, you woke up beyond the mind to be able to see when the mind was starting to separate life and create the contraction and the suffering. And actually identify nothing as something that we call life.
And yes, our words are equal and yours are probably more understandable than mine. No, you're doing great.
You're doing great. It takes both though, you know? Yeah.
Yeah. And the work, and we'll have a possibly a demonstration today is you first do a judge your neighbor worksheet, the process of the work, and I'll share all the links and things, but it's essentially you fill out a judge your neighbor worksheet to collect the catty, unconscious, honest beliefs at that time

in that situation as a meditation. And then you can go back through every belief.

Situation, time and place when we were believing the thought and felt such shame or hurt or yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.
And then, and then you take the four questions and three turnarounds through each belief and it starts unraveling the mind and you feel a sense of peace and freedom on the other side. And, you know, what I love about it is that you don't need a teacher.
It helps highlight your own wisdom and that it's accessible for everyone at any time. It's powerful.
Yeah. It's a way out of suffering and it's for anyone with an open mind.
It takes a very open mind. That's why those of us are suffering and can't find a way out of that suffering, you know, for some of us, that's what it takes to get to this work.
Anyone in an open eye, you know, I like to say when you think your life absolutely cannot get any better, it has to. It's a law.
It's a law. We're unlimited.
And we're unlimited in joy and love and freedom. You know, the absence of fear.
It's our birthright. It's what we come to, you know, I refer to Earth as Earth School.
It's what we're here for. And this is one way.
We have many beautiful ways in world, many teachers and ways and religions and, and methods and, and this one's, this one was shown to me. And I, one of the reasons I love it so much is because it gives you a framework that you can apply to any thought that helps you live with an open heart, open mind.
I think it's very easy to live in peace secluded on a mountaintop and this helps stay open in a very modern day life. And so how do we use those everyday triggers to help free us, to help us live? And, and, and yeah, and that's the key.
They show us how those worksheets show us how to live in any given situation and, and not from someone who's telling us that, but out of our own self and realized, and it sounds like some kind of miracle. And actually it is.
It's where the ego has a voice and we're not trying to shut it down or argue with it or suffer over it. We simply let the ego fill in the worksheet and then we question it.
And the ego loves to go, oh, oh, I know, I know. And so how do I react when I believe the thought? Oh, I know.
And it will just show us and we just notice. And this is like lovemaking.
It's like, oh, honey, you know, is a term for ego, honey. Is it true? Are you sure? And it's that kind of patience we learn to sit in ourselves.
And the ego goes, yes, yes. And okay, can can you absolutely and then it gets really still in that situation and then it's open to um is you know like something terrible is going to happen is it true okay i look around is there any you know in that situation i have to anchor there to answer the questions because this isn't a guessing game.
Yeah. Yeah.
I love that anchoring piece being in that scene, in your mind and that memory, pressing pause and then filling out the worksheet from there and really inquiring from there. I think that's so powerful.
Yeah. And that's the work.
And sometimes we don't even know that we have stories that we're filtering reality on. So sometimes people, I hear them say like, I don't have anything.
And it's often that we're just not paying attention. And so I remember I was at your no body retreat with, I love those with a couple friends of Emilio and I, and I was doing what I, my mind was doing what it typically did, which was compare myself to her and always fall short.
And I remember I was doing the work. She was at the workshop as well.
And it was the first time, I mean, it was so obvious, but you know, it's like a fish in water. It's hard to see it when we're in it.
And it was the first time I realized that if somebody were to walk into a room, the same room, they wouldn't know that we were friends. They wouldn't know how successful her business was, how successful mine was.
There was no comparative. It was all made up in my mind, causing my own suffering as an unconscious way to help motivate me to do better so that then I was loved.
I could see all of it, uh, thinking that my security was in how people saw me and, but, but bringing inquiry pen to paper, really not in your mind, but really writing it down, helped me start waking up and to be able to observe the mind rather than getting absorbed into it. And so even just the act of filling out a judge your neighbor worksheet helps you see it with more space and not unconsciously get seduced into the egoic trance.
And then the process of the four questions and three turnarounds helped to start unraveling it and not just get pulled into unconscious programming. There it is where the ego can't play with it.
It is our mind on paper. There it is black and white, not moving steady.
Yeah. It's right there.
Yeah. Yeah.
Cause that's cause of our suffering and it's stable and it'll hold while we meditate get still in those four questions and turn around yeah and it brings us back to ourself and I love that it feels very clean in my experience because you don't take credit for people's clarity or confusion it's just helping them them come back to themselves. One of the quotes that I love that you say is, you hear what you think I said and enlighten yourself.
I think that's brilliant. You hear what you think I said and enlighten yourself.
It's your own interpretation. It's just so empowering.
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And so if you want to get behind the scenes access to the Institute with three proven transformational tools for free to help you create the business and life you love, all you have to do is go to alissanobriga.com forward slash tools, or you can find us at alissanobriga.com forward slash apply now to see all the details and apply today. One of my favorite parts of your teachings is the three types of businesses.
Can you share with us about the three types of business? I like to share it as my business, your business and God's business, the God of, you know, of whatever understanding that is for each of us individually. And, and if I get into yours, you know, I'm out of mine and no wonder I'm lost, I'm lost, you know, like a full light, you know, I'm out of mine.
And no wonder I'm lost. I'm lost, you know, like a full light.
I'm just guessing you are, they are, the world is, and I am. And, you know, but if I stay in my business, then I can understand myself.
And in that, I can better understand the world with more compassion and understanding and judgments fall away. You know, it's just a beautiful thing to be present.
And present doesn't mean dumb. It means a listener.
And in that, there's laughter and connection and a space to join in or not. And it's, you know, it allows us to be a part of the community of the world and not have to hang out with safe people, people we believe were safe.
It doesn't mean that we don't, but it's not out of, of, of fear of it. We don't, we're not there because we're fearful of, of, um, of moving out of that arena.
Yeah. And, and I just encourage anyone to test it.
I know you do that as well. Just,

you don't have to trust it, but test it, see what it's like, because to me, finding the work changed my life. And I want to make sure to share it with as many people as possible.
A fun story. Um, 15 years ago when I first started dating or first started connecting with Emilio as for those that are listening, don't know, this is my husband, boyfriend at the time.
And I was doing it for those of you that haven't met him. Okay.
A word for Emilio, the word divine. So it's only, it's only right that the two of you with me fall in love.
You love this man. And, and I was doing the work regularly at the time and I wanted to share it with him.
So we drove out to Ojai to go to an inquiry circle and inquiry circles are essentially doing the work in community. And Emilio professed his love for me on the drive out.
And I didn't know how to respond because it wasn't true for me to say, I love you back. And we were late and I, I were pulling up to the work and to the school.
And I closed the door after he professed his love to me. And I go into this goal and we sit down and the prompt is I need your love.
Is it true? It was absolutely the perfect response for him to see that he didn't need me to respond. His love that he felt for me was his.
It had nothing to do with me for him to embody. And I had just taken myself through deep inquiry of what love is and the source of love, which I am.
And it was such a beautiful, synchronistic experience. And I feel like the work brings us back to ourselves where we don't need life to change for us to be free and okay.
We just want to look at the source of all of the problems which are in our mind and life is a mirror and it will reflect that and we find that okayness it's an it's okayness for sure but it's it's you know we've tapped into wisdom and yeah that's okay with us wisdom is wisdom and yeah and we may not even see it that way, but anything that dissolves an ego giving us those truths that you were pointing to in you and Amelia and your experience. It's wisdom is a term for wisdom is the, wisdom is, it's a term for no opposite, really.
Wise is wise. Anything that would argue with it could need, could use a little work.
But we don't know what wisdom is. And like you and Emilio, it's self-realized.
Yeah. And it's love.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's really, and I want to share that I fell in love with, well, the, the Loving What Is is your book that I highly recommend as the first book, um, because there, and you also have the little book, it's the cliff notes version of Loving What Is, which helps people understand how to do this in their own life as a regular practice or however much you would like. I mean, for me, I think of triggers are breadcrumbs to your freedom.
So anything that triggers you can free you and the work is one way to help you come back to experiencing that freedom. And then I, but I really fell in love on a whole other level when I read A Thousand Names for Joy.
The A Thousand Names for Joy is based on the Tao Te Ching, which is a sacred text. And it's kind of like the modern day version.
How I see it is your clear mind in a very modern day world. My husband, you know, Stephen Mitchell, he's, his practice for years, Buddhism, and that's his practice.
And so he would ask me questions and I would respond. I would respond.
And so that is how that book came together. And it's an incredible writer and you two together are in a whole nother level of impact and clarity in the world.
And, and I, and to me getting an window peak or an insight into a clear mind and how that lives in a very grounded way, helped me understand how profound the work was in a whole other level and a whole other way. And so Emilio and I would read, it's either one page up to maybe three pages a day.
There's, I think 81 or so. And I, we would read a chapter and every morning and we'd either burst into laughter or drop into silence.
And it was a beautiful ritual and way to start the morning for anybody that wants to adopt that. I mean, the reading of it is lovely and also doing the work.
I love who I am when I do the work. And so I just encourage people to test it.
I mean, I'm such a fan of, of this and I'm very transparent about that because I think it can change the world as we change ourselves and the war inside of us. Yeah.

And so I thought it might be helpful to give people a taste of, of the work. Um, I have a one belief at a time, but we could do, or we could do a section of a judge your neighbor.
The judge your neighbor is, um, from an older situation of being, um, bullied in middle school. And I kind of went back into that situation and, um, and quite, and I kind of wrote out a worksheet because I can see that it can still come up and filter wanting people to perceive me in a certain way or wanting to like me.
And the, the, and I think that may serve more people because I think that's a very common pattern. Um, and then neighbor worksheet for all of you um and again there are six questions on it and you anchor in a time and place and that situation and then you identify what you were thinking and believing as that as questions one through six guide you through on the process of of getting in touch with what you were thinking and believing.
And it's inclusive. It doesn't leave anything out.
It's all there.

Yeah. And I can work for any situation in your life.
I know that you used to do a lot of work

around addiction, and this is very helpful for addiction, depression. Really, it works on everything.
This work is about addiction. We're addicted to what we're thinking and believing.
And how do we react? We believe the thought. We try to change them, shift them, ignore them, deny them.
We We compulsively overeat. We become alcoholic, drug addicted.

We're addicted to what we're thinking and believing. How do we shut the mind up? We don't know how.
So we reach out for people, things, substances, anger. So this is a way of just anchoring, anchoring um as you've said a couple of times in in that time and place as we answer the questions in short simple sentences on that judge your neighbor worksheet those six questions yeah and once you fill out the judge your neighbor worksheet you take each of those beliefs into the four questions and the three turnarounds.
That's really helpful to know. I think we'll do a one belief and I can share the situation that, that this is in.
So to be so important, all of you to fill in even a one belief In that time and place and identify, get in touch with like in that situation, what were you thinking and believing? What was the situation? Yeah. So the situation that came up for me was I was a part of a group that got together every year and I was in my twenties and everyone in my eyes was very successful.
And they would go around, um, in the beginning of the weekend to share all that they had accomplished that year. And these were people like, you know, the big kids were over 50 and I was in the under 50, but the big kids were Oprah, Malala, Bill Gates, people that are really specifically Oprah and Malala really respected and admired.
And I had a lot of insecurity coming up about not feeling like I was doing enough. And so we were, the moment in time was we were going around sharing vulnerably and honestly about what we had done that year.
And it got to me and I was so nervous at the dinner table I started crying feeling shame and not good enough and the belief was I want them to like me yeah and for some of us it's um you know we have to find our own but for some of us I want to impress them yeah or maybe sure that was happening we can go with that one i want them to see me as their right yeah i mean we just anchor in that situation until we oh that's the one okay let's do i want i want yes that's the one you know so it's this is a meta this is an exercise in stillness, and so we just experience a part of it, you know, a taste of it and it's okay. So, so I don't have, which one did you, are you going with? Both are true.
I mean, I want to impress them. Three of them are true.
And, and and and where are we going with it it's it's like for all of us this is where we're going to be what is it I want them I want them to say oh yeah all three are true yeah you know the anchor one where's the if they're if they have equal charge doesn't matter but if one has a little more charge um not sure but yeah a little more go with that one you know so only it's it's it's this is the ultimate self-help no one oh that's the one you should do no yeah let's let's good okay i want them to like me because i want to impress them so that then they like me. So it's like, I want them to like me.
Okay. So that's where you are.
You want them to like you. Is it true? So all of you, you know, as I, you know, it's, it's like anchor there, be there now in that situation.
So that's how do this work because that's where you're going to find the answer. Look around the table.
They shared such, you know, just amazed. They've accomplished so much and they're so well-spoken.
And now it's a turn and I want them to like me. You want them to like you.
Is it true? And all of you noticing that yes is equal to no. No is equal to yes.
This is about, you know, you've heard the expression, is the truth that sets you free? Your truth, not someone else's. So in that situation, you want them to like you, Be there now.
Take in all that you've shared with us. You want them to like you in that situation.
Be there now. Yes.
Okay. You want them to like you.
Is it true? It's okay. I absolutely know it absolutely no react notice how you react when you believe the thought yeah there when you think the thought i want them to like me anchor there i can see images in my mind about preparing of what i want to say so that I give a presentation or a way of

manipulative, like way of saying something so that then they do like me or I feel accepted. So you're into how can I manipulate them in a way that would cause them to like me? What I am noticing physically is like not in in you, but in me, when I have to,

if I'm going to prepare something that, that I think would for, to, so that they'd like me, a kind of panic.

Yeah.

Which, which takes away from my ability to say what is authentic which is is knowing you Alyssa what you're going for right yeah yeah I'm definitely I'm in my mind I'm in the future I'm trying to control there's judgment of it. I feel pressure in my temples, the shortness of breath.
I don't feel like I can rest. Like I'm definitely on.
I feel anxious. There's some sadness in there.

And there,

the cause of those emotions,

you're seeing images of a past,

images of a future, when you think of the thought,

I want them to like me.

Yeah, I can see images of my past

of being bullied in middle school

and thinking that

that experience,

them not liking me, caused my suffering. And so I'm trying to avoid that happening in the future yeah yeah and you're sitting in like the precipice of future as you're sitting in the past notice emotionally what happens as you're witnessing those images of past future.
It's like sitting

in a movie. Like if I right now say the word apple, everyone sitting here with us had to see an image of the apple.
You think the thought, I want them to like me. The eagle's play is there's no power without words and words are no power without images.

That is, that is the dream that is the yeah that is oh gosh the term just came to me that is fake news it's the emotional when we're watching the movie of past, future. We can't do anything to stop it.
It's ego's play. I want them to like me and continue to notice how you react.
Be there now in that situation with those impressive people. Yeah.
I feel the anxiety and the sadness. I can feel it in my cheeks and in my core, but I also see images of wanting my strategy is to become like, what else can I do to be successful so that then I'm accepted in that group? I can feel that and see that play out in my head and I lose my power and I give it to them in that moment I think I'm not okay there's a level of fear and not feeling safe and I think that I need it from them and it's harder to breathe deeper and I notice your body language when you're sitting in those image yeah there's like a collapse there's a part that one that just wants to collapse and hide and look at the facade that is required of the ego when you think that thought i want them to like me with those images of past future, notice, notice the physical, the body takes on.
I want them to like me. And inside you're this, there's a lot going on as you've described it.
Yeah. Not like a smile.
Yeah. It's, it's, it's.
there's like my self-worth is tied in that moment to how I think that they perceive me not how they perceive me how I think that they perceive me or how you want them to uh-huh and what you said yeah I want them to like me. Reminding all of you that this is an exercise in stillness.
The work takes stillness. It's an exercise in getting still, meditating in that situation where I want these impressive people to like me.
Yeah. I can see past images, future images.
I feel what happens to my body. Yeah.
see that the strategy the compensation strategy is to hustle or to prove my worth and to get busy thinking that success is the way yeah at all costs at all costs yeah the egos fight for survival yes yes that's right notice how innocent you are sitting in this trance

yeah so gullible just believing well so tranced tranced yeah yeah imagination is everything. And I'm totally, there's, in that moment, I'm just seduced into fantasy, not even really there.
Okay. So be there now in all that you described.

You've been sitting in this movie, this ego offering up past future. and notice

who are you

without that movie

without that emotional

sitting with those people

listening

so Who are you without that movie, without that emotional sitting with those people, listening, so impressed and grateful, seeing them as mentors? I'm here and I want to be like them. You know, there they are, your mentors.
Who are you without the thought? I want them to like me. entering into that generous circle

what you have I feel inspired I feel connected I feel authentic relaxed I'm not so focused on me and what I'm going to say or how I'm in a position, what I'm going to share. I'm just taking them in and feeling really inspired about what they're up to in the world.
It's also a value of making an impact. I value that.
And so I feel grateful to be there and to hear the vulnerability

and the real of their lives. And it feels like a privilege to, yeah, to be led into somebody's

authentic experience. A lot of them are sharing openly and honestly,

but I feel at peace and I feel present and I feel safe and I feel less concerned about myself.

And less concerned about the way they see you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They feel more free.

Because they wanted to know about you.

Yeah.

There you are showing up.

Yeah. Yeah.
know about you yeah there you are showing up yeah

yeah so without changing anything i want them to like me turned around turn it around to yourself i want me to like me yeah i want yes that feels true i want three examples i want me to like the part of me that...

Let's hold it.

Okay.

With what you just said and discovered. Yes, that feels true.
I want three examples. I want me to like the part of me that.

Let's hold it.

Okay. With what you just said and discovered in four, that is you liking you.
Yeah. So in that moment, without believing that I want them to like me, that is me liking me, is what you're saying.
You know, turned around, I want me to like me.

And then as you get still in that, it enforces what it enforces and validates the authentic. It's not wanting, needing, hoping.
Yeah. Better for worse.
There you are. Yeah.
That'll listen to thatssa that I know yeah I want me to like me yeah yeah and I want me to like the part of me that is looking for their approval

like that gets to be included and accepted as well and as I do that I feel free I feel at peace

but that's not a problem it's not who I am it's a pattern of thinking again it's the the part of me that thought pattern or that you could say part of me or that thought pattern that is looking for their approval i want to like that part because when i accept that part i feel free yeah you may notice

you you don't ever have that need again yeah it's just and if you do there's some forgiveness and it's like oops i recognize that yeah innocent could be looking at yeah innocent just doesn't make us bad people.

Yeah.

This is an equals world.

Yeah. This is an ego's world.
And, you know, forgiveness. And it shows me, you know, I need to do maybe an entire worksheet on them.
I want them to like me. Or, you know, if we just don't have time for it, just to look at that one again.
But we're not bad for seeking love, approval, and appreciation. And, I mean, how else can an ego survive? You know, an ego is a state of mind, and it wants to live as object.
I am that, you know, and that can never be. That's the illusion.
I want me to like me. Yeah, all of me.
That's right. I want me to like me and do my best sitting here.
But what I can say is it's authentic pick and they will or they won't but one of us will come out of here liking me and it's going to be me why because I'm authentic it could be I don't even belong here I don't want to be where I don't belong I see that yeah and Yeah. And I want to like me, even if I perceive somebody in that group, not liking me, I still want to choose me.
Yes, honey. Yes.
If they don't like you and you're showing up, they can leave of the one you're with and it's always you. Yeah.
Yeah. That's beautiful.
Yeah. So that's one turnaround and three, or one, yeah, turnaround, three examples.
Yeah, I don't want them to like me is another turnaround. And so this is, you know, just ponder that I don't like them to want me.
But that's not true. I do want, okay, so ponder it.
Yeah, but I do want that. Okay, so you could be right.
Just ponder. I don't want them to like me.
I don't want them to like me if it's not their truth. I don't want them to like me if it's not their truth.
I don't, that's one that feels honest. that feels, and I don't want them to like me if it's not their truth i don't that's one that feels honest

that feels and i don't want them to like me how look how um you don't just notice that one yeah i want them to like me if they don't i mean they don't it doesn't take our permission You know, we could say they like me or they don't. But, you know, this stillness, you know, just, oh, my gosh, we're all babies, the most enlightened of us.
You know, this is earth school. Yeah.
I yeah them to like me if they don't because then I'm free yeah it's like do I like them that's the question whether they like me or yeah when I'm not preoccupied with thinking if someone likes me my authentic questioning is is do I feel drawn to them? Do I like them? Yeah. And if they don't like me.
Yeah, that's right. And I, that kind of just getting still and that turnaround that I brought up, like, maybe I use the word redunda you know like think feel it through feel through

meditating in i don't want them to like me if they don't get the noticing i want them to like me I want them

I want me to like them

anyway

they don't like me

and I like anyway I can catch they're the ones I want to hang out with you know I noticed you know I had the thought as I was sharing you you you didn't you didn't really like what I was saying you, maybe I rubbed you the wrong way. And if you experience that, tell me, tell me.
I want to know. Because they hold something we may be asleep to.
Feedback, perspective, blind spot, yeah. Yeah, but we fear people who don't buy our shtick.
And if I believe I want them to like me, and I don't have self-inquiry.

I could say things that are like, where I've said a little too much in a way that would be convincing, and that's not it. Yeah.
and an example I don't want them to like me

is that when I accept what is, I feel free. And so if they don't like me and I accept that, then I'm free independent of them liking me or not.
And that's what I'm more interested in is freedom more than them liking me. And underneath that, I think I want them to like me so that then I like me, but I could cut them out of the middleman and just choose to like all of me and find my source of freedom.
And them respect that they don't mess around and pretend to like people when they don't. Yeah.
Yeah. And now I'm hearing what you were saying around the feedback.
Maybe

if they don't like something I'm doing or they don't like me, maybe there's something that I

need to see. Maybe I'm doing something that feels out of integrity that I, that it was a blind spot

for me. And so them not liking me may wake me up to that, to consider that.
Yeah. Yeah.
But when I

keep my heart open to them, not liking me, I feel good. So that's mine.
To keep my mind open to it, my, you know, open mind, open heart, closed mind, closed heart. So when my mind is closed, you know, I can say, but my heart was open and no, it's like a valve, open mind, open heart, closed mind, closed heart.
How it's fit in the physical. Yeah.
All gauged by the ego, the enlightened or unenlightened mind. Yeah.
Whichever we're in. And then the last one would be I want to like them well let's see I want them to like me I want me to like me I want me to like them I like that one I want me to like them I feel good when I like people you know I have examples of back in the day Amelia's ex-wife was very clear that she didn't like me and I kept my heart open, my mind open and I was doing the work and I really liked her and I really liked her and I felt free when I could do that.
And so it feels good to me to like people. It's selfish.
It's, I want me to like them and with sometimes when I let's say sometimes um let's say I like someone and they don't like me sometimes the kindest thing I can do if I like them is like you to give them all kinds of space and when they do something important to give them that. Totally.
That feels so loving. That feels so clean.
That feels true and right. And that's how I want to.
And that a way of saying, you know, it's the absence of competitiveness.

Yeah.

And it's the absence of envy.

And the absence of fear.

Yeah.

That feels really good and clean in my heart.

Yeah, honey. Yeah.
Yeah yeah I want to like them yeah when I look for things that I like about people what I give out is what I receive and so it's really a gift back to myself it is a projection of myself so that's that's the gift to me. Yeah.
Beautiful. And so this is just one example, one thought that we could have gone through a full judge your neighbor worksheet.
And I loved that you slow it down. So there's more stillness and really looking fresh because I find that that's where the power is.
We could spend, look how much time we spent on them to like me. So when we fill in these worksheets and that time and place with us sitting at that table with those people and we fill in the worksheet on that situation, it just keeps enlightening and enlightening and enlightening and enlightening us.
For sure. And one of my favorite on the judge your neighbor worksheet questions, which is I look forward to, and then you fill in the blank, the thing that you don't want to have happen and you've turned it around to, I look forward to that thing happening because it's me that's freedom.
It's not trying to manipulate and control life so that then you're okay. It's about finding that okayness, waking up from the nightmare.

And I love that you have that. I want to read one of your quotes.
When you can honestly look forward to uncomfortable experiences, there's no longer anything to fear in life. You see everything as a gift that can bring you to self-realization.
To me, that is such a way to live free without fear. And I also see the work as such a stand for love, like the deepest stand for love.
And I want to have you speak to this briefly, but I think, you know, there's been a lot of school shootings and I thought I heard you say something. So I just want to give you the chance to clarify it.
But I thought I heard you say something about if there were a school shooting and you were there that you would go to the one that needs love the most the shooter and that I would go to him but I would certainly understand understand and that is that is the absence of fear yeah so I can I can be um, one of those, um, little boys, as it turned out, that said something like duck or get under your chairs or he said, I think it was don't run. Mm-hmm.
And I mean, he was concerned about everyone. He was beyond his own fear it seems yeah so don't run and because evidently we're running toward the shooter and he was just mowing them down so that that kind of so it's what you're saying and then number six i want them to like me i'm willing that they don't like me.

I look forward to them not liking me.

Should that happen again when someone doesn't like me and I don't understand,

then it's another worksheet.

The lack of understanding is a fearful mind and it's a way the ego has hold of us. Yeah.
Yeah. And then a way to live free beyond our fears, essentially, and to find the okayness in the moment.
I think just briefly, one thing that I think people misunderstand is if they accept something, then they're stuck with it. But acceptance doesn't mean being complacent, acceptance internally, and you can still proactively create a change in the world, but you do it from a clear mind.
So there's still action that can be taken, but it comes from a different place. And one misunderstanding that I've heard people have around the work, and I don't know if you want to speak to this because to me, it's the deepest stand for love.
Um, and how having people question their experience, I know that the work empowers them to find their truth. And one critique that I've heard around it is that it can inadvertently have people that have been gaslit before they can, um, it has them question their experience.
I feel differently about it. And I think also when somebody's, um, you know, with the work, the question, they're just asking questions for that person to find their own truth.
There's no influence. There's no, um, so if somebody has been, you know, uh, gas lit before, so somebody that's been been quote unquote manipulated by somebody else saying that was, that didn't happen or making them the fault.
If that person does the work, um, they, they think that they would blame themselves rather than removing themselves from a situation that was unhealthy. No, this is personal personal work this doesn't need a facilitator

it just takes one human being each of us listening here just that one so on the the work doesn't gaslight me like um on i i mean if i'm gaslighting me i'm not doing this work yeah i'm i'm out of the were thinking out of self thinking away from self inquiry. I've gone into personal judgments.
The work is about questioning the opposite of gaslighting. And there's no agenda.
And that's what I love about it. So it's always about what our truth is.
There's questions that help us look again to find out what our truth is.

That's where it feels empowering and actually can help us remove ourselves from situations that don't feel healthy or aligned anymore. So the only agenda is what was I thinking, believing in that situation where I was frightened or hurt or, um, or misunderstood.
Um, what was I thinking and believing in that situation? And I'm going to fill it in with, that's my personal agenda. Yeah.
So I'm going to fill in the worksheet, fill in the worksheet. I would be there now.
And in short, simple sentence, fill in one through six on that worksheet. And you can do the work on everyday mundane, anything, any topic.
But I also know Katie, cause my community is quite advanced and they're very much interested in self-realization as well. And, you know, being with you in Costa Rica and, you know, when Elizabeth Gilbert, we were at her workshop and she, you looked, we had partners and you looked at me and you're like, do you want to partner? I'm like, yes, I would like to partner with you.
And we shared our gratitude list. And one of the things that just opened me was you were sharing gratitude for how I experience this is the level of freedom that you're living from.
And it touched something so deep inside me that it's safe to let go of orienting out of the mind. And I remember just looking at you and into your eyes and just feeling the depth of knowing that you've gone to a place of your own edges of reality of questioning and, and living in a really true way.
And it just, I remember just lying down after just crying and being kind of opened and just lying down in the, in the safety of the moment beyond the mind and knowing that it's trustworthy, that there's an intelligence that orchestrates all of it beyond the mind. This is my words for it.
But my experience is that you can also use the work for self-inquiry, questioning who you think you are. Can you speak a little bit to, because one of the things I...
The question Liz asked was, as you were recalling it, is what are you grateful for? And so that was the gratitude you saw my list was so long yeah and so um the experience of gratitude is um it's a beautiful thing and it and it touched something deep in me to know that it's trustworthy to let go and i'm so grateful for that and and I also know that an experience that the work can help unravel the fear to experience the freedom that's underneath it. And so just want to plug that and speak to people, whether they're looking for relational work to like get more free in relationships or around business or body or addiction, and also questioning of who I think I am in a really deep way.
And that it, I love that it meets you where you are. I think it's so profound and I'm so grateful for you, Katie, and for this work.
And I'm grateful for who I am when I do the work. And I know you have so many beautiful offerings in the world and I want to make sure people We a, and we'll put all the show notes below where people can stay connected because I'm aware that you have Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday from 9am to 10am Pacific.
You've got donation classes where people can do the work with you live on zoom, right? From anywhere in the world. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, it's all the same.
It's all there. Yeah's all there yeah uh-huh and then also um you do events at thework.com sometimes you'll do a school or different in-person events schools on on thework.com they're live at the center for the work in oh hi yeah yeah yeah and also there's the hotline right the helpline the hel.
Yeah. People can call and fill out a judge your neighbor worksheet and work with a facilitator.
And if they don't know how to fill one in, then the helpline will support them with that too. Yeah.
And then there's that 99 cent app. That's right.
There's the app 99 cents. Okay.
Beautiful. And what is the name of the app? The, the work, the work app.
Beautiful. Okay.
We'll put links in the show notes below. I just love you so much.
And I'm grateful for the, the work in the world. And I hope that more people get this accessible so that they can experience more freedom in their own life.
So thank you for coming on and sharing and supporting my community and myself. Oh, sweetie, you're so welcome.
I love to that dear Emilio of yours that you share him so just. I love you.
Thank you. Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the world, starting with yourself.
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