How to Live Free + Overcome People Pleasing with Byron Katie | EP 45

Speaker 1 I like to share it is my business, your business, and God's business. And if I get into yours, you know, I'm out of mine and no wonder.
I'm lost, I'm lost.

Speaker 1 You know, I'm just guessing you are, they are, the world is, and I am. But if I stay in my business, then I can understand myself and in that

Speaker 1 I can better understand the world with more compassion and understanding. And judgments fall away.
It's just a beautiful thing to be present.

Speaker 1 And present doesn't mean dumb. It means a listener.
And in that, there's laughter and connection and a space to join in or not.

Speaker 1 And it allows us to be a part of the community of the world and not have to hang out with safe people, people we believe were safe. It doesn't mean that we don't, but it's not out of

Speaker 1 fear.

Speaker 2 Welcome. I'm Alyssa Nobriga, your host of the Healing and Human Potential podcast, a place for you to discover the multi-dimensionality of what it means to be human.

Speaker 2 Over the past 20 years, I've trained thousands of coaches in my methodology, leveraging my experience as a former psychotherapist, and I'm here to share with you all the wisdom and insights that I've learned along the way.

Speaker 2 Each week, I'll share with you life-changing tools to support you in awakening and manifesting your dream life from the inside out.

Speaker 2 We'll be exploring the intersection between ancient wisdom and modern everyday life, really diving deep into the art of human potential through the lens of psychology, spirituality, and coaching.

Speaker 2 Let's let the magic unfold.

Speaker 3 I have a very special guest for you today on the podcast, one of my spiritual teachers and dear friends who is an author, she's a speaker, and she's really touched millions of people's lives around the world.

Speaker 3 We have the one and only Byron Katie today on the podcast. And I want to give you a taste of the magic this woman carries with a really open and clear mind.

Speaker 3 So I'm going to read to you a section of her book, A Thousand Names for Joy. This is essentially her experience of when she was at gunpoint.

Speaker 3 And you can kind of see the depth of work that is available for all of us when we live beyond fear.

Speaker 3 A man sticks a pistol into my stomach, pulls back the hammer, and says, I'm going to kill you. I'm shocked that he's taking his thoughts so seriously.

Speaker 3 To somebody identified as an I, the thought of killing causes guilt that leads to a life of suffering. So I ask him as kindly as I can not to do it.

Speaker 3 I don't tell him that it's his suffering that I'm thinking of. He says he has to do it, and I understand.

Speaker 3 I remember believing that I had to do things in my old life. I thanked him for doing the best he can, and I noticed that I'm fascinated.
Is this how she dies? Is this how the story ends?

Speaker 3 And as joy continues to fill me, I find it miraculous that the story is still going on.

Speaker 3 You can never know the ending, even as it ends. I'm very moved at the sight of the sky, the clouds, the moonlit trees.
I love that I don't miss one moment, one breath of this amazing life. I wait.

Speaker 3 and wait. And in the end, he doesn't pull the trigger.
He doesn't do that to himself.

Speaker 3 What we call quote unquote bad and what we call quote unquote good both come from the same place.

Speaker 3 The Tao De Ching

Speaker 3 says that the source of everything is called darkness. What a beautiful name, if we must name it.
Darkness is our source. In the end, it embraces everything.
Its nature is love.

Speaker 3 In our confusion, we name it terror, ugliness, and the unacceptable, unbearable.

Speaker 3 All our stress results from what we imagine is in that darkness. We imagine darkness as separate from ourselves and we project something terrible onto it.

Speaker 3 But in reality, the darkness is always benevolent.

Speaker 3 It doesn't change. And when you realize this, you just have to laugh.
There's nothing serious about life or death.

Speaker 3 That's powerful.

Speaker 3 And that's available in my experience, the more we wake up from the fear-based mind and her process for doing that, which I'll demonstrate in today's session, vulnerably, honestly, around a topic that I think a lot of people can relate to, which is wanting people to like them.

Speaker 3 And so I'm going to share authentically about my experience. She'll do the work with me so that you can see how you can apply this work to your own life.
Yay! I'm so happy. I'm so happy.

Speaker 3 This is such a good moment.

Speaker 1 I've wanted this as much as you have.

Speaker 3 I just love you so much. And I am here to just connect and drop in with you and also share the power of the work in the world because I've had so many years.

Speaker 3 I was reflecting, it's been 18 years since I've been doing the work and every week, the last six years as a regular routine.

Speaker 3 And to me, you know, I want to share you with the, with my audience, but I also want to share the work because I find it to be the cleanest mindset tool that really works on any thought, anywhere for free.

Speaker 3 I remember when I found the work, I was thinking, it doesn't matter what happens in life, whether I'm in jail, I become homeless, because I know the power of questioning my thoughts, I know I'll find my okayness in any situation.

Speaker 3 It's that powerful.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 it is. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I know you have. a dramatic and very powerful before and after story.
I know part of your awakening story was that you were a goerphobic.

Speaker 3 For people that don't know what that means, it's you're too afraid to leave the house. And for you, I remember you telling me that it was, you know, bedridden in some ways.

Speaker 3 You would not even leave the room.

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh, yeah. Oh, my goodness.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And so tell us, because I know you went to a halfway house. And when we were in Costa Rica, you were sharing that you were in the attic of a halfway house.

Speaker 3 Share with us a little bit, just so we have a context about

Speaker 3 that moment of transformation, of awakening, so people get a sense for the power of this.

Speaker 1 And it's not about where I was.

Speaker 1 It's

Speaker 1 it wasn't about any of that. It's just, I was asleep like every person in the world.
We sleep within a 24-hour period. And

Speaker 1 as, and we dream or we don't. And I was on the floor, you know, this suffering human being.
And

Speaker 1 for whatever reason, a cockroach crawled over my foot i was in a dead sleep on the floor because i my esteem was so low and i was so full of self-loathing i didn't believe i deserved the bed a bed to sleep in and it was right there with me in this little room and

Speaker 1 But so sleeping on the floor and this bug crawled over my foot and I'm in this, let's say this dead sleep.

Speaker 1 And I opened my eyes, and before the ego could grab onto that identity, to identify as I, I am, the woman on the floor, before any of that could happen,

Speaker 1 I saw,

Speaker 1 I saw

Speaker 1 the space that Cockroach gave me.

Speaker 1 I saw like a window. There was a window in the room, but I didn't know it was a window.
I had no reference in that space before the ego could

Speaker 1 hypnotize me. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Hypnotize, make reference.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like

Speaker 1 trance me.

Speaker 1 I saw it and then

Speaker 1 I heard the word window.

Speaker 1 And that's when I began to laugh. And I didn't laugh on purpose.
It's just this laughter.

Speaker 1 It was the first sound that came out of what I used to refer as the first sound that came out of it, because it was still unidentified as object body.

Speaker 1 So I began to laugh. And then I saw,

Speaker 1 I saw

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 heard the word wall and then ceiling and then light coming from the window. And

Speaker 1 it it was,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 that is the birth of,

Speaker 1 and that's where, and people would say, you know, what is it? What happened? You're an agoraphobic, someone years, years of depression and

Speaker 1 with no way out. And,

Speaker 1 you know, I might just, you know, know, all that fear of leaving the home, I might just walk out the door at home for no reason and

Speaker 1 not know where I was going in absolute,

Speaker 1 absolute clarity that

Speaker 1 it's a beautiful world. Yeah.
A beautiful world without

Speaker 1 downside without opposite. Now, how can I say that? You know, and people were asking me, what, what, what is your freedom?

Speaker 1 I put people in my position, the position on the floor with these questions I say you know they they would fill in like I saw the mind works so one through six on what I call the judge your neighbor worksheets one through six so um

Speaker 1 that is that's the world and it covers it

Speaker 1 covers it all without exception it is it it is like i want i need they should they shouldn't

Speaker 1 there are only six things we do and that the ego offers up and then there are variations of that so we

Speaker 1 uh are we remain in this hypnotic trance so um i give people um opportunity to to anchor

Speaker 1 just be then

Speaker 1 now you know be there in time now

Speaker 1 when your feelings were hurt or someone said something or you were fear maybe to leave your your home like I was, or

Speaker 1 you're judging your children, your spouse,

Speaker 1 your workplace, it doesn't matter. You just fill in that worksheet for what you're believing in any given situation where you feel hurt or stress, depression,

Speaker 1 and you just anchor in that situation. So you meditate in that time and place

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 you identify the thoughts that

Speaker 1 Judge Enable worksheet supports you to anchor in.

Speaker 1 And there's the cause of your suffering. What is the cause of our suffering? What we're thinking and believing in any given time or situation.
It doesn't matter. There it is.
And I also

Speaker 1 refer to it sometimes as checkmate. you know there's the cause of your suffering there it is

Speaker 1 and um it doesn't matter if it was one minute ago or 10 years ago or,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 it just doesn't matter. We just move it from our head to paper, the things we resent, the people we resent, the people, et cetera.
So,

Speaker 1 and then we questioned them. And so that is what I experienced on the floor as well.

Speaker 1 in a way that puts people in that position at any time and place. And then

Speaker 1 people look at what's on their worksheet one belief at a time.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 they question what they're believing.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 then they find an opposite, just like I saw on the floor window. And the laughter was, it's not a window.

Speaker 1 I mean, that can never be. It's a trance.
It's just like I found it. And

Speaker 1 I can put words to it now. There were no words then.
It was self-realized. Yeah.

Speaker 3 So I hear that you were, there was a deep depression and suffering.

Speaker 3 And in that moment of not feeling worthy on the ground, for whatever reason, you woke up beyond the mind to be able to see when the mind was starting to separate life and create the contraction and the suffering.

Speaker 1 And I actually identify nothing as something that we call life. And yes, our words are equal and yours are probably more understandable than mine.

Speaker 3 No, you're doing great.

Speaker 1 You're doing great. It takes both, though.
You know, Yeah. Yeah.
Different angles of it. We can't.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And the work, and we'll have a possibly a demonstration today is you first do a judge your neighbor worksheet, the process of the work, and I'll share all the links and things, but it's essentially you fill out a judge your neighbor worksheet to collect the caddy, unconscious, honest beliefs at that time in that situation as a meditation.

Speaker 1 And then you can go back through every belief, situation, time, and place when we we were believing the thought and felt such shame or hurt or anything

Speaker 1 or yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And then you take the four questions and three turnarounds through each belief and it starts unraveling the mind and you feel a sense of peace and freedom on the other side.

Speaker 3 And you know, what I love about it is that you don't need a teacher. It helps highlight your own wisdom and that it's accessible for everyone at any time.

Speaker 1 It's powerful. Yeah.
It's a way out of of suffering and it's for

Speaker 1 anyone with an open mind.

Speaker 1 It takes a very open mind. That's why those of us are suffering and can't find a way out of that suffering.
You know, for some of us, that's what it takes to get to this work.

Speaker 1 Anyone

Speaker 1 in an open,

Speaker 1 you know, I like to say when you think your life absolutely cannot get any better,

Speaker 1 it has to. It's a law.
It's a law. We're unlimited and

Speaker 1 we're unlimited in joy and love and freedom, you know, the absence of fear.

Speaker 1 It's our birthright. It's what we come to, you know, I refer to Earth as Earth School.
It's what we're here for.

Speaker 1 And this is one way. We have many beautiful ways in this world, many beautiful teachers, and ways and religions and

Speaker 1 methods. and and um this one's

Speaker 1 this one was shown to me and

Speaker 3 i one of the reasons i love it so much is because it gives you a framework that you can apply to any thought that helps you live with an open heart open mind i think it's very easy to live in peace secluded on a mountaintop and this helps stay open in a very modern day life and so how do we use those everyday triggers to help free us, to help us live?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 yeah, and that's the key. They show us how, those worksheets show us how to live in any given situation.

Speaker 1 And not from someone who's telling us that, but out of our own self and realized, and it sounds like some kind of miracle. And actually it is.

Speaker 1 It's where

Speaker 1 the ego has a voice and we're not trying to shut it down or argue with it or suffer over it. We simply let the ego fill in the worksheet and we then we question it.

Speaker 1 And the ego loves to go, oh, oh, I know, I know. And so, how do I react when I believe the thought? Oh, I know, no.
And it will just show us and we just notice. And this is like love making.

Speaker 1 It's like, oh, honey, you know, it's a term for ego, honey.

Speaker 1 Are you, is it true? Are you sure? And it's that kind of patience we learn to sit in ourselves and the ego goes, yes, yes. And okay,

Speaker 1 can you absolutely? And then it gets really still in that situation. And then it's open to,

Speaker 1 is, you know, like something terrible is going to happen.

Speaker 1 Is it true? Okay, I look around. Is there any, you know, in that situation? I have to anchor there to answer the questions because this isn't a guessing game.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I love that anchoring piece, being in that scene, in your your mind, in that memory, pressing pause, and then filling out the worksheet from there and really inquiring from there.

Speaker 3 I think that's so powerful.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And that's that's the work.

Speaker 3 And sometimes we don't even know that we have stories that we're filtering reality on.

Speaker 3 So sometimes people I hear them say, I don't have anything. And it's often that we're just not paying attention.
And so I remember I was at your nobody retreat with

Speaker 3 love those with a couple, friends of Amelia and I. And I was doing what I, my mind was doing what it typically did, which was compare myself to her and always fall short.

Speaker 3 And I remember I was doing the work. She was at the workshop as well.
And it was the first time, I mean, it was so obvious, but you know, it's like a fish in water.

Speaker 3 It's hard to see it when we're in it. And it was the first time I realized that if somebody were to walk into a room, the same room, they wouldn't know that we were friends.
They wouldn't know.

Speaker 3 how successful her business was, how successful mine was. There was no comparative.
It was all made up in my mind, causing my own suffering as an unconscious way to help motivate me to.

Speaker 3 uh do better so that then i was loved i could see all of it uh thinking that my security was in how people saw me and but but bringing inquiry pen to paper really not in your mind but really writing it down helped me start waking up and to be able to observe the mind rather than getting absorbed into it and so even just the act of filling out a judge your neighbor worksheet helps you see it with more space and not unconsciously get seduced into the egoic trance.

Speaker 3 And then the process of the four questions and three turnarounds helped to start unraveling it and not just get pulled into unconscious programming.

Speaker 1 There it is where the ego can't play with it. It is our mind on paper.
There it is, black and white, not moving steady. Yeah.
Just right

Speaker 1 there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because that's the cause of our suffering and it's stable and it'll hold while we meditate, get still in those four questions and turn around. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And it brings us back to ourself. And I love that it feels very clean in my experience because you don't take credit for people's clarity or confusion.
It's just helping them come back to themselves.

Speaker 3 One of my, the quotes that I love that you say is, you hear what you think I said and enlighten yourself.

Speaker 3 I think that's brilliant. You hear what you think I said and enlighten yourself.
It's your own interpretation. It's just so empowering.

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Speaker 3 One of my favorite parts of your teachings is the three types of businesses. Can you share with us about the three types of business?

Speaker 1 I'd like to share it: it's my business, your business, and God's business, the God of, you know, of whatever understanding that is for each of us individually. And

Speaker 1 if I get into yours, you know, I'm out of mine, and no wonder I'm lost. I'm lost, you know, like a full life.
You know, I'm just guessing you are, they are, the world is, and I am.

Speaker 1 And, you know, but if I stay in my business, then I can understand myself. And in in that,

Speaker 1 I can better understand the world

Speaker 1 with more compassion and understanding. And judgments fall away.

Speaker 1 It's just a beautiful thing to be present.

Speaker 1 And present doesn't mean dumb. It means a listener.
And in that, there's laughter and connection and a space to join in or not. And it's, it's an, oh, oh, it's an,

Speaker 1 you know, it allows us to be a part of the community of the world and not have to hang out with safe people, people we believe were safe. It doesn't mean that we don't, but it's not out of

Speaker 1 fear.

Speaker 1 We're not there because we're fearful of

Speaker 1 moving out of that arena.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I just encourage anyone to test it. I know you do that as well.
Just, you don't have to trust it, but test it to see what it's like. Because to me, finding the work changed my life.

Speaker 3 And I want to make sure to share it with as many people as possible. A fun story.

Speaker 3 15 years ago when I first started dating or first started connecting with Emilio, as for those that are listening, don't know. This is my husband, boyfriend at the time.

Speaker 1 And I was doing.

Speaker 1 For those of you that haven't met him,

Speaker 1 okay,

Speaker 1 a word for Emilio, the word divine. So

Speaker 1 it's only right that the two of you would me fall in love.

Speaker 3 So he loved this man. And

Speaker 3 I was doing the work regularly at the time, and I wanted to share it with him. So we drove out to Ojai to go to an inquiry circle.
And inquiry circles are essentially doing the work in community.

Speaker 3 And Emilio professed his love for me on the drive out.

Speaker 3 And I didn't know how to respond because it wasn't true for me to say i love you back and we were late and i i were pulling up to the work and to the school and i closed the door after he professed his love to me and i go into the school and we sit down and the prompt is i need your love is it true it was absolutely the perfect response for him to see that he didn't need me to respond his love that he felt for me was his.

Speaker 3 It had nothing to do with me for him to embody. And I just taken myself through deep inquiry of what love is and the source of love, which I am.
And it was such a beautiful, synchronistic experience.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I feel like the work brings us back to ourselves, where we don't need life to change for us to be free and okay. We just want to look at the source of all of the problems which are in our mind.

Speaker 3 And life is a mirror and it will reflect that. And we find that okayness.

Speaker 1 It's an it's okayness for sure, but it's, it's, you know, we've tapped into wisdom, and yeah, that's okay with us. Wisdom is wisdom.

Speaker 1 And yeah, and we may not even see it that way, but anything that dissolves

Speaker 1 an ego giving us

Speaker 1 those truths that you were pointing to

Speaker 1 in you and Amelia in your experience. It's

Speaker 1 yeah, it's wisdom is the

Speaker 1 wisdom is,

Speaker 1 it's a term for no opposite, really.

Speaker 1 Wise is wise anything that would argue with it could need could use a little work but we don't know what wisdom is and and like you and Emilio it's it's self-realized

Speaker 1 yeah and it's it's love

Speaker 3 yeah yeah it's really and I want to share that I fell in love with well, the Loving What Is is your book that I highly recommend as the first book because they're, and you also have the little book, it's the the Cliff Notes version of Loving What Is, which helps people understand how to do this in their own life as a regular practice or however much you would like.

Speaker 3 I mean, for me, I think of triggers are breadcrumbs to your freedom. So anything that triggers you can free you and the work is one way to help you come back to experiencing that freedom.

Speaker 3 And, and then I, but I really fell in love on a whole other level when I read A Thousand Names for Joy.

Speaker 3 The A Thousand Names for Joy is based on the Tao Te Ching, which is uh a sacred text and it's kind of like the modern-day version how i see it is your clear mind in a very modern day

Speaker 1 on my husband you know on stephen mitchell on he's on his practice for years buddhism and on and that's his practice and and so he would ask me questions

Speaker 1 on

Speaker 1 and I would respond

Speaker 1 I would respond. And so that is how that book came together.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 Stephen's an incredible writer, and you two together are in a whole nother level of impact and clarity in the world. And

Speaker 3 to me, getting a window peek or an insight into a clear mind and how that lives in a very grounded way helped me

Speaker 3 understand how profound the work was in a whole other level, in a whole other way. And so Amelia and I would read, it's either one page up to maybe three pages a day.
There's, I think, 81 or so.

Speaker 3 And we would read a chapter every morning and we'd either burst into laughter or drop into silence. And it was a beautiful ritual and way to start the morning for anybody that wants to adopt that.

Speaker 3 I mean, the reading of it is lovely. And also doing the work.
I love who I am when I do the work. And so I just encourage people to test it.

Speaker 3 I mean, I'm such a fan of this and I'm very transparent about that because I think it can change the world as we change ourselves and the war inside of us.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And so I thought it might be helpful to give people a taste of the work.

Speaker 3 I have a one belief at a time, but we could do, or we could do a section of a judge your neighbor. The judge your neighbor is

Speaker 3 from an older situation of being bullied in middle school. And I kind of went back into that situation and

Speaker 3 I kind of wrote out a worksheet because I can see that it can still come up and filter wanting people to perceive me in a certain way or wanting to like me.

Speaker 3 And I think that may serve more people because I think that's a very common pattern.

Speaker 1 And then judge your neighbor worksheet for all of you.

Speaker 1 And again, there are six questions on it. And you anchor in a time and place in that situation.

Speaker 1 And then you identify what you were thinking and believing as that, as questions one through six guide you through

Speaker 1 the process of getting in touch with what you were thinking and believing. And it's inclusive.

Speaker 1 It doesn't leave anything out. It's all there.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And I can work for...
any situation in your life. I know that you used to do a lot of work around addiction, and this is very helpful for addiction, depression.

Speaker 3 Really, it works on everything.

Speaker 1 This work is about addiction. You know, we're addicted to what we're thinking and believing.
And how do we react? We believe the thought, we try to change them, shift them, ignore them, deny them.

Speaker 1 We compulsively overeat, we become alcoholic, drug-addicted.

Speaker 1 It's an we're addicted to what we're thinking and believing. How do we shut the mind up? We don't know how.
So, we

Speaker 1 reach out for people,

Speaker 1 things, substances,

Speaker 1 anger. So this is a way of just

Speaker 1 anchoring,

Speaker 1 as you've said a couple of times in

Speaker 1 that time and place as we answer the questions in short, simple sentences

Speaker 1 on that Judge Your Neighbor worksheet, those six questions. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And once you fill out the Judge Your Neighbor worksheet, you take each of those beliefs into the four questions and the three turnarounds. That's really helpful to know.

Speaker 3 I think we'll do a one belief and I can share the situation that this is in.

Speaker 1 So to

Speaker 1 so important, all of you to fill in even a one belief, incur in that time and place

Speaker 1 and identify, get in touch with

Speaker 1 like in that situation, what were you thinking and believing? What was the situation?

Speaker 3 Yeah. So the situation that came up for me was I was a part of a group that got together every year.
And I was in my 20s and everyone in my eyes was very successful.

Speaker 3 And they would go around in the beginning of the weekend to share all that they had accomplished that year.

Speaker 3 And these were people like, you know, the big kids were over 50 and I was in the under 50, but the big kids were.

Speaker 3 Oprah, Malala, Bill Gates, people that I really, specifically Oprah and Malala really respected and admired. And I had a lot of insecurity coming up about not feeling like I was doing enough.

Speaker 3 And so we were, the moment in time was we were going around

Speaker 3 sharing vulnerably and honestly about what we had done that year.

Speaker 3 And it got to me and I was so nervous at the dinner table. I started crying, feeling shame and not good enough.
And the belief was I want them to like me.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And for some of us, it's, you know, we have to find our own.
But for some of us, I want to impress them, yeah, or make sure that was happening. We could go with that one.

Speaker 1 I want them to see me as their equal, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, we just anchor in that situation until we oh, that's the one, okay.

Speaker 3 Let's do.

Speaker 1 I want, I want to, well, yes, that's the one, you know. So, it's this is a meta, this is an exercise in stillness, and yeah, and so we just experience a part of it, you know,

Speaker 1 a taste of it, And it's

Speaker 1 okay.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I don't have

Speaker 1 which one are you going with?

Speaker 3 Both are true. I mean, I want to impress that.

Speaker 1 All three of them are true. And

Speaker 1 where are we going with it?

Speaker 1 It's like for all of us, this is where we're going to be. What is it? I want them.
I want them. Let's see.
Oh, yeah. All three are true.
Yeah. You know,

Speaker 1 anchor one. Where's the, if they're, if they have equal charge, doesn't matter.
But if one has a little more charge,

Speaker 1 not sure, but yeah, a little more charge, go with that one. You know, so only it's, it's, it's, this is the ultimate self-help.
No one can point it out. Oh, that's the one you should do.

Speaker 1 No, so Melissa, let's, let's.

Speaker 3 Good. Okay.
I want them to like me because I want to impress them so that then they like me. So it's like I want them to like me.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So that's where you are.

Speaker 1 You want them to like you. Is it true?

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 all of you, you know, as I, you know, it's, it's like anchor there. Be there now in that situation.
That's how to do this work because that's where you're going to find the answer.

Speaker 1 Look around the table. They shared such, you know,

Speaker 1 just amazed. They've accomplished so much and they're so well spoken.
And now it's my turn. And I I want them to like me.

Speaker 1 You want them to like you.

Speaker 1 Is it true?

Speaker 1 And all of you noticing that yes is equal to no, no is equal to yes. This is about, you know, you've heard the expression, it's the truth that sets you free.
Your truth, not someone else's.

Speaker 1 So in that situation,

Speaker 1 You want them to like you. Be there now.
Take in all that you've shared with us.

Speaker 1 you want them to like you in that situation be there now

Speaker 1 yes

Speaker 1 okay

Speaker 1 yeah you want them to like you is it true

Speaker 1 it's okay absolutely notice

Speaker 1 notice how you react when you believe the thought anchor there when you think the thought

Speaker 1 i want them to like me anchor there

Speaker 3 i can see images in my mind about preparing of what i want to say so that i give a a presentation or a a way of a manipulative like way of saying something so that then they do like me or i feel accepted so you're into how can i manipulate them in a way that would cause them to like me what i am noticing physically is

Speaker 1 like not in you but in me when i have to if i'm going to prepare something that that i think would

Speaker 1 for the to

Speaker 1 so that they'd like me a kind of panic yeah which which takes away from my ability to say

Speaker 1 what is authentic which is

Speaker 1 is

Speaker 1 knowing you Alyssa, what you're going for.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I'm definitely, I'm in my mind. I'm in the future.
I'm trying to control.

Speaker 3 There's some judgment of it. I feel pressure in my temples, a shortness of breath.

Speaker 3 I don't feel like I can rest. Like I'm definitely on.

Speaker 3 I feel anxious.

Speaker 3 There's some sadness in there.

Speaker 1 And there,

Speaker 1 the cause of those emotions, you're seeing images of a past, images of a future when you're thinking of the thought, I want them to like me.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I can see images of my past of being bullied in middle school and thinking that

Speaker 3 that experience, like them not liking me, caused my suffering. And so I'm trying to avoid that happening in the future.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And you're sitting in like the precipice of future as you're sitting in the past.

Speaker 1 Notice emotionally what happens as you're witnessing those images of past future. It's like sitting in a movie.

Speaker 1 Like, if I right now say the word apple, everyone sitting here with us had to see an image of the apple.

Speaker 1 You think the thought I want them to like me,

Speaker 1 the ego's play is there's no power without words, and words are no power without images. That is,

Speaker 1 that is the

Speaker 1 that is

Speaker 1 the dream that is the

Speaker 1 yeah that is

Speaker 1 oh gosh the term just came to me that is fake news

Speaker 1 it is the emotional when we're watching the movie of past future we can't do anything to stop it

Speaker 1 it's it's ego's play i want them to like me and continue to notice how you react be there now in that situation with those impressive people. Yeah,

Speaker 3 I feel the anxiety and the sadness.

Speaker 3 I can feel it in my cheeks and in my core, but I also see images of wanting my strategy is to become like, what else can I do to be successful so that then I'm accepted in that group?

Speaker 3 I can feel that and see that play out in my head.

Speaker 3 And I lose my power and I give it to them in that moment. I think I'm not okay.

Speaker 3 There's a level of fear and not feeling safe. And I think that I need it from them.

Speaker 3 And it's harder to breathe deeper.

Speaker 1 And notice your body language when you're sitting in those image.

Speaker 3 Yeah, there's like a collapse. There's a part that wants like, that just wants to collapse and hide.

Speaker 1 And look at the facade that is required of the ego when you think that thought, I want them to like me. with those images of past, future.

Speaker 1 Notice, notice the

Speaker 1 physical, the body takes on, I want them to like me.

Speaker 1 And inside you're this, this,

Speaker 1 there's a lot going on as you've described it.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Not like a smile.

Speaker 3 There's like my self-worth is tied in that moment to how I think that they perceive me. Not how they perceive me, how I think that they perceive me.

Speaker 1 Or how you want them to.

Speaker 1 And what you said.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I want them to like me.

Speaker 1 Reminding all of you that this is an exercise in stillness. The work takes stillness.

Speaker 1 It's an exercise in

Speaker 1 getting still meditating in that situation where I want these impressive people to like me

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 3 I can see past images future images

Speaker 3 I feel what happens to my body Yeah

Speaker 3 I can see that the strategy, the compensation strategy is to hustle or to

Speaker 3 prove my worth and to get busy, thinking that success is the way.

Speaker 1 Yeah, at all costs. At all costs.
Yeah, the ego's fight for survival.

Speaker 3 Yes. Yes.

Speaker 1 That's right. Notice how innocent you are sitting in this trance.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so gullible.

Speaker 3 Just believing.

Speaker 1 Well, so tranced.

Speaker 3 Tranced. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Imagination is everything.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And I'm totally, there's in that moment, I'm just seduced into fantasy, not even really there.

Speaker 1 Okay, so be there now in all that you described.

Speaker 1 You've been sitting in this movie,

Speaker 1 this

Speaker 1 ego offering up past, future.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 notice,

Speaker 1 who are you

Speaker 1 without that movie, without that emotional sitting with those people, listening, so impressed and grateful, seeing them as mentors. I'm here and I want to be like them.

Speaker 1 You know, there they are, your mentors. Who are you without the thought, I want them to like me?

Speaker 1 Entering into that generous circle, what you have.

Speaker 3 I feel

Speaker 3 inspired.

Speaker 3 I feel connected.

Speaker 3 I feel

Speaker 3 authentic, relaxed.

Speaker 3 I'm not so focused on me and what I'm going to say or how I'm going to position what I'm going to share. I'm just taking them in and feeling really inspired about what they're up to in the world.

Speaker 3 It's also a value of making an impact. I value that.
And so I feel grateful to be there and to hear the vulnerability and the real of their lives. And it feels like a privilege to

Speaker 3 Yeah, to be led into somebody's authentic experience. A lot of them are sharing openly and honestly.

Speaker 3 But I feel at peace and I feel present and I feel safe and I feel

Speaker 3 less concerned about myself.

Speaker 1 And less concerned about the way they see you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 They feel more free.

Speaker 1 Because they wanted to know about you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 There you are, showing up. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So without changing anything.

Speaker 1 I want them to like me turned around. Turn it around to yourself.
I want them.

Speaker 3 I want me to like me.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I want, yes, that feels true. I want three examples.
I want me to like the part of me that.

Speaker 1 But let's hold it.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 With what you just said and discovered in four.

Speaker 1 That is you liking you.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 So in that moment, without believing that I want them to like me, that is me liking me, is what you're saying.

Speaker 1 You know, turned around, I want me to like me.

Speaker 1 And then as you get still in that,

Speaker 1 it enforces what it enforces

Speaker 1 and validates the authentic. It's not wanting, needing, hoping.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Better for worse, there you are. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That Alyssa that I know.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I want me to like me.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And I want me to like the part of me that is looking for their approval.
Like that gets to be included and accepted as well. And as I do that, I feel free.

Speaker 3 I feel at peace, that that's not a problem. It's not who I am.
It's a pattern of thinking.

Speaker 1 Say it again. It's

Speaker 3 the part of me, that thought. pattern or that you could say part of me or that thought pattern that is looking for their approval i want to like that part because when i accept that part i feel free

Speaker 1 yeah you may notice

Speaker 1 you you don't ever have that need again

Speaker 1 yeah it's just and if you do there's some forgiveness and it's like oops i recognize that yeah innocent could be looking at yeah innocent just

Speaker 1 it's doesn't make us bad people yeah this is an ego's world and yeah and um

Speaker 1 you know, forgiveness. And it shows me, you know,

Speaker 1 I need to do maybe an entire worksheet on them and want them to like me.

Speaker 1 Or, you know, if we just don't have time for it,

Speaker 1 just to look at that one again.

Speaker 1 But we're not bad. We're seeking love, approval, and appreciation.
And I mean, how else can an ego survive?

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 an ego is a state of mind and it wants to live as object I am that, you know, and it's,

Speaker 1 and that can never be. That's the illusion.

Speaker 1 I want me to like me. Yeah, all of me.

Speaker 1 That's right. I want me to like me and I'm going to do my best sitting here, but what I can say is it's authentic

Speaker 1 and they will or they won't, but one of us will come out of here liking me, and it's going to be me. Why? Because I'm authentic.
It could be I don't even belong here.

Speaker 1 I don't want to be where I don't belong.

Speaker 3 I see that.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And I want to like me, even if I perceive somebody in that group not liking me.
I still want to choose me.

Speaker 1 Yes, honey. Yes.
If they don't like you and you're showing up, they can leave.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because you think of the one you're with and it's always you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 That's beautiful.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 So that's one turnaround and three or one turnaround, three examples.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 I don't want them to like me is another turnaround. And so this is, you know, just ponder that I don't like them to want me, but that's not true.
I do want, okay, so ponder it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I do want that. Okay, so you could be right.
Just ponder. I don't want them to like me.

Speaker 3 I don't want them to like me if it's not their truth.

Speaker 3 I don't want them to like me if it's not their truth. I don't, that's one that feels honest.
That feels,

Speaker 3 and I don't want them to like me.

Speaker 1 How, look how, um, you know, just notice that one. Yeah.
I don't want them to like me

Speaker 1 if they don't. I mean, they don't.
It doesn't take our permission. So,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 we could say, I, they like me or they don't.

Speaker 1 But, you know,

Speaker 1 this stillness,

Speaker 1 you know, just, oh my gosh, we're all babies, the most enlightened of us. You know, we're just,

Speaker 1 this is earth school.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 them to like me

Speaker 1 if they don't

Speaker 3 because then I'm free.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's like, do I like them? That's the question, whether they like me or not.

Speaker 3 Yeah, when I'm not preoccupied with thinking if someone likes me, my authentic questioning is, is, do I feel drawn to them? Do I like them? Yeah.

Speaker 1 And if they don't like me.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 And I

Speaker 1 that kind of

Speaker 1 just

Speaker 1 getting still and that turnaround that I've brought up, like

Speaker 1 maybe I use the word redunda, you know, like think, feel it through, feel

Speaker 1 through, meditating in.

Speaker 1 I don't want them to like me

Speaker 1 if they don't.

Speaker 1 And then noticing I want them to like me.

Speaker 1 I want them. I want me to like them anyway.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 They don't like me and I like

Speaker 1 anyway. I can catch they're the ones I want to hang out with.
You know, I noticed, you know, I had the thought as I was sharing, you didn't,

Speaker 1 you didn't really like what I was saying. You know, maybe I rubbed you the wrong way.
And if that's, if you experience that, tell me, tell me. I want to know.

Speaker 1 Because they hold something we may be asleep to.

Speaker 3 Feedback, perspective, blind spot. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But we fear people who don't buy our shtick.
And if I'm believing, I want them to like me and I don't have self-inquiry. I could say things that are like,

Speaker 1 like,

Speaker 1 where I've said a little too much in a way that would be convincing. And that's not it.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And an example I don't want them to like me

Speaker 3 is that when I accept

Speaker 3 what is, I feel free. And so if they don't like me and I accept that, then I'm free independent of them liking me or not.
And that's what I'm more interested in is freedom more than them liking me.

Speaker 3 And underneath that, I think I want them to like me so that then I like me, but I could cut them out of the middleman and just choose to like all of me and find my source of freedom.

Speaker 1 And them respect that they don't mess around and pretend to like people

Speaker 1 when they don't. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And now I'm hearing what you were saying around the feedback. Maybe if they don't like something I'm doing or they don't like me, maybe there's something that I need to see.

Speaker 3 Maybe I'm doing something that feels out of integrity, that I, that it was a blind spot for me. And so them not liking me may wake me up to that, to consider that.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. But when I keep my heart open to them not liking me, I feel good.

Speaker 3 So that's mine.

Speaker 1 To keep my mind open to it, my, you know, open mind, open heart, closed mind, closed heart.

Speaker 1 So when my mind is closed,

Speaker 1 you know, I can say, but my heart was open. And

Speaker 1 no, it's like a vow of open mind, open heart, closed mind, closed heart.

Speaker 1 We have the effect in the physical. And yeah.
All gauged by

Speaker 1 the ego,

Speaker 1 the enlightened or unenlightened mind,

Speaker 1 Whichever we're in.

Speaker 3 And then the last one would be, I want

Speaker 3 to like them.

Speaker 1 Well, let's see. I want them to like me.
I want me to like me. I want me to like them.
I like that one.

Speaker 3 I want me to like them. I feel good when I like people.
You know, I have examples of back in the day, Emilio's ex-wife was very clear that she didn't like me. And I kept my heart open, my mind open.

Speaker 3 And I was doing the work, and I really liked her, and I really liked her. And I felt free when I could do that.
And so it feels good to me to like people.

Speaker 3 It's selfish. It's, I want me to like them.

Speaker 1 And with

Speaker 1 sometimes, when I

Speaker 1 let's say,

Speaker 1 sometimes,

Speaker 1 let's say I like someone

Speaker 1 and they don't like me.

Speaker 1 Sometimes the kindest thing I can do if I like them

Speaker 1 is

Speaker 1 like you to give them all kinds of space and

Speaker 1 when they do something important, to give them that.

Speaker 1 Totally.

Speaker 3 That feels so loving. That feels so clean.

Speaker 3 That feels true and right. And that's how I want to.

Speaker 1 That is a way of saying, you know,

Speaker 1 it's the absence of competitiveness. yeah

Speaker 1 and and it's the absence of envy

Speaker 1 and the absence of fear

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 3 that feels really good and clean in my heart yeah honey

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 3 i want to like them

Speaker 3 yeah when i look for things that i like about people what I give out is what I receive. And so it's really a gift back to myself.
It is a projection of myself. So that's, that's the gift to me.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 beautiful. And so this is just one example, one thought that we could have gone through a full Judge Your Neighbor worksheet.

Speaker 3 And I loved that you slow it down so there's more stillness and really looking fresh because I find that that's where the power is.

Speaker 1 It really is. We could spend, look how much time we spent on

Speaker 1 them to like me.

Speaker 1 So you, when you, when we fill in these worksheets in that time and place with us sitting at that table with those people and we fill in the worksheet on that situation, it just keeps enlightening and lightning and lightning and enlightening us.

Speaker 3 For sure.

Speaker 3 And one of my favorite on the judge your neighbor worksheet questions, which is, I look forward to, and then you fill in the blank the thing that you don't want to have happen and you turn it around to I look forward to that thing happening because to me, that's freedom.

Speaker 3 It's not trying to manipulate and control life life so that then you're okay it's about finding that okayness waking up from the nightmare and i love that you have that i want to read one of your quotes when you can honestly look forward to uncomfortable experiences there's no longer anything to fear in life you see everything as a gift that can bring you to self-realization

Speaker 3 to me that is such a way to live free

Speaker 3 without fear. And I also see the work as such a stand for love, like the deepest stand for love.

Speaker 3 I and I want to have you speak to this briefly, but I think you know, there's been a lot of school shootings, and I thought I heard you say something, so I just want to give you the chance to clarify it.

Speaker 3 But I thought I heard you say something about if there were a school shooting and you were there, that you would go to the one that needs love the most, the shooter. And

Speaker 1 that I would go to him, but I would certainly understand.

Speaker 1 I certainly understand.

Speaker 1 And that

Speaker 1 is the absence of fear.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I can be like

Speaker 1 one of those

Speaker 1 little boys, as it turned out,

Speaker 1 that said something like, duck, or get under your chairs. Or, oh, he said, I think it was, don't run.

Speaker 1 And I mean, he was concerned about everyone. He was beyond his own fear, it seems.

Speaker 1 So don't run. And because evidently you were running toward the shooter and he was just mowing them down.
So that

Speaker 1 kind of, so it's what you're saying. And then number six, I want them to like me.

Speaker 1 I'm willing that they don't like me. I look forward to them not liking me.

Speaker 1 Should that happen again when someone doesn't like me and I don't understand,

Speaker 1 then it's another worksheet. The lack of understanding is a fearful mind and

Speaker 1 it's

Speaker 1 a way the ego has hold of us. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And a way to live free beyond our fears, essentially, and to find the okayness in the moment.

Speaker 3 I think just briefly, one thing that I think people misunderstand is if they accept something, then they're stuck with it. But acceptance doesn't mean being complacent.

Speaker 3 Acceptance internally, and you can still proactively create a change in the world, but you do it from a clear mind. So there's still action that can be taken, but it comes from a different place.

Speaker 3 And one misunderstanding that I've heard people have around the work, and I don't know if you want to speak to this, because to me, it's the deepest stand for love

Speaker 3 and having people question

Speaker 3 their experience. I know that the work empowers them to find their truth.

Speaker 3 And one critique that I've heard around it is that it can inadvertently have people that have been been gaslit before, they can,

Speaker 3 it has them question their experience. I feel differently about it.
And I think also when somebody's,

Speaker 3 you know, with the work, the question, they're just asking questions for that person to find their own truth. There's no influence.
There's no.

Speaker 3 So if somebody has been, you know,

Speaker 3 gaslit before, so somebody that's been quote unquote manipulated by somebody else saying that was, that didn't happen or making them the fault. If that person does the work,

Speaker 3 they think that they would blame themselves rather than removing themselves from a situation that was unhappy.

Speaker 1 No, no, this is personal work. This doesn't need a facilitator.
It just takes one human being. Each of us listening here, just that one.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 the work doesn't gaslight me like

Speaker 1 I mean, if I'm gaslighting me, I'm not doing this work.

Speaker 1 I'm out of the work, thinking, out of

Speaker 1 self,

Speaker 1 thinking away from self-inquiry. I've gone into personal judgments.
The work is

Speaker 1 about questioning the opposite of gaslighting.

Speaker 3 And there's no agenda. And what's what I love about it? So it's always about what.
our truth is. There's questions that help us look again to find out what our truth is.

Speaker 3 That's where it feels empowering and actually can help us remove ourselves from situations that don't feel healthy or aligned anymore.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 my agenda is what was I thinking, believing, and that situation where I was frightened or hurt or

Speaker 1 misunderstood.

Speaker 1 What was I thinking and believing in that situation? And

Speaker 1 now I'm going to fill it in with, that's my personal agenda. Yeah.
So I'm going to fill in the worksheet, fill in the worksheet. I would be there now

Speaker 1 and in short, simple sentence, fill in one through six on that worksheet.

Speaker 3 And you can do the work on everyday mundane, anything, any topic. But I also know, Katie, because my community is quite advanced and they're very much interested in self-realization as well.

Speaker 3 And, you know, being with you in Costa Rica and, you know, when Elizabeth Gilbert, we were at her workshop and she, you looked, we had partners and you looked at me and you're like, do you want want to partner?

Speaker 3 I'm like, Yes, I would like to partner with you. And we shared our gratitude list.
And one of the things that just opened me was you were sharing gratitude for

Speaker 3 how I experience this is the level of freedom that you're living from. And it touched something so deep inside me that it's safe to let go of orienting out of the mind.

Speaker 3 And I remember just looking at you and into your eyes and just feeling the depth of knowing that you've gone to a place of your own edges of reality of questioning and and living in a really true way and it just i remember just lying down after just crying and being kind of opened and just lying down in the in the safety of the moment beyond the mind and knowing that it's trustworthy that there's an intelligence that orchestrates all of it beyond the mind this is my words for it but

Speaker 3 My experience is that you can also use the work for self-inquiry, questioning who you think you are. Can you speak a little bit to because one of the things I looked at.

Speaker 1 The question Liz asked was,

Speaker 1 as you were recalling it,

Speaker 1 is what are you grateful for?

Speaker 1 And so that was the gratitude you saw. My list was so long.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so.

Speaker 1 The experience of gratitude is

Speaker 1 a beautiful thing.

Speaker 3 And it touched something deep in me to know that it's trustworthy to let go. And I'm so grateful for that.
And

Speaker 3 I also know and experience that the work can help unravel the fear to experience the freedom that's underneath it.

Speaker 3 And so just want to plug that and speak to people, whether they're looking for relational work to like get more free in relationships or around business or body or addiction.

Speaker 3 and also questioning of who I think I am in a really deep way. And that it, I love that it meets you where you are.
I think it's so profound. And I'm so grateful for you, Katie, and for this work.

Speaker 3 And I'm grateful for who I am when I do the work. And I know you have so many beautiful offerings in the world.

Speaker 3 And I want to make sure people get a, and we'll put all the show notes below where people can stay connected because I'm aware that you have Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday from 9 a.m. to 10 a.m.

Speaker 3 Pacific. You've got donation classes where people can do the work with you live on Zoom, right, from anywhere in the world.

Speaker 1 Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. It's all the same.
It's all there. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Uh-huh. And then also you do events at thework.com.
Sometimes you'll do a school or different in-person events.

Speaker 1 Schools on thework.com. They're live at the Center for the Work in Ojai.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And also there's the hotline, right?

Speaker 1 The helpline.

Speaker 3 The helpline. Yeah.
People can call and fill out a Judge Your Neighbor worksheet and work with a facilitator.

Speaker 1 And if they don't know how to fill one in, then the helpline will support them with that too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then there's that 99 cent app.

Speaker 3 That's right. There's the app, 99 cents.
Okay, beautiful. And what is the name of the app?

Speaker 1 The work, the word of app.

Speaker 3 Beautiful. Okay.
We'll put links in the show notes below. I just love you so much and I'm grateful for the

Speaker 3 work in the world. And I hope that more people get

Speaker 3 this accessible so that they can experience more freedom in their own life. So thank you for coming on and sharing and supporting my community and myself.

Speaker 1 Oh, sweetie, you're so welcome and love to that

Speaker 1 dear Emilio of ours, of yours, that you share him so gently.

Speaker 3 I love you. Thank you.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the world, starting with yourself. It truly does make a difference.

Speaker 2 And if you're finding value in this podcast, a cost-free way to support us is by leaving an up to five-star review. It does mean the world to us.

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