Healing the Mother-Daughter Relationship - With My Mom | EP 35

We had the gift of being able to do ceremony together. And, you know, I remember I was, we were laying on the couch and I just start feeling the medicine kick in and I start feeling it.
And you're like, I'm going to perch. And so you walked up and I was like, okay, I'm going with you.
I just took your hand and we just darted to the bathroom. And I, it was such a spiritled intervention.
Wow, I was so surprised. We ended up hours in the bathroom.
It was a little bathroom. Just dropped in soul to soul, heart to heart connecting.
We're trying our best, you know, and bless those parts of us that get stuck or confused. And I was feeling like, shouldn't you and Emilio be together and doing your work? And I thought was I thought no she's here she's with me okay I'm gonna just accept that and that was hard yeah to let yourself receive that time that was really important I felt that you wanted to be with me yeah and heal that which is what I wanted to yeah welcome I'm Alyssa Nobrega, your host of the Healing and Human Potential podcast, a place for you to discover the multidimensionality of what it means to be human.
Over the past 20 years, I've trained thousands of coaches in my methodology, leveraging my experience as a former psychotherapist, and I'm here to share with you all the wisdom and insights that I've learned along the way. Each week, I'll share with you life-changing tools

to support you in awakening and manifesting your dream life from the inside out. We'll be exploring

the intersection between ancient wisdom and modern everyday life, really diving deep into the art of

human potential through the lens of psychology, spirituality, and coaching. Let's let the magic unfold.
I understand most mother-daughter relationships are sensitive. You might have lost your mom, not had a present mom, whether that's physically or emotionally, or even despite all your attempts at having a healthy mother-daughter relationship, it just hasn't worked out.
And everyone's relationship is going to look different, and I know it's not always easy. And so today, I'm bringing my mom on the podcast with the intention of sharing our insights, stories, and lessons that we've learned along the way towards healing our relationship over the years.
I didn't think it was possible to actually heal this core relationship, but I found that it is. And so my hope is that by sharing our story, it supports you in yours.
And we'll share practical tools and tips and ways you can heal throughout the episode, whether you choose to do it on your own and not see your mom again, or you want to do this work with your mom. This episode is here to support you in your healing, if you want that.
I am so honored that you are here. Thank you for your willingness to get on the podcast and share about our journey.
I just want to first start off by sharing the context of how much I love you and how much I felt wanted and supported as a child. I know we're going to, in this podcast, highlight some of the challenges of the mother-daughter wound, but I think it's important because to context that I had a really privileged and beautiful upbringing.
And I know that you devoted your life to being a good mom and taking parenting courses 40 years ago was super innovative and not a lot of people were doing that. And you wanted to offer us something better than you had.
And we got that, my brothers and I, and I'm so grateful for that. And so I want to just start off by thanking you for devoting your life to us and for being a present mom and for caring and for doing your work.
Thanks, honey. Yeah.
I'm happy to be here. Yeah.
I love you. Yeah, me too.
And, and, and I know that some of what we're going to talk about is more of our challenges. So I think it's important to context that.
Right. And as a therapist, people would say that if, if, if we had a client that was like, I had a great childhood, no challenges.
My parents are perfect. That's actually a red flag.
That's not true. We want to be able to hold the gifts and the challenges and learn from all of it.
And so I just, I have notes here because there's so much I want to share. I know that people had questions on Instagram.
There's some research and takeaways I want to get to. So I, I know that we'll mainly talk about our evolution of the challenges that we've had.
So let's do that. So contexting how grateful I am and how great it was and also this podcast is for people at different types of dynamics with their mom sure and so that's really important because the work is really with us and not with someone else so in terms of our evolution in our relationship I would tell people that you are like mrs.
Cleaver from the TV show leave it to Beaver. You had this like good girl syndrome.
I want to be good. And that was really coming from a lot of your parenting and what you got when you were raised, like being the good girl and wanting that for me, you know, wanting me to be the good girl.
That's how I felt. I'll share my experience.
Yeah. And so what that caused for me was wanting a more authentic and deeper connection with you, but not knowing how to get that.
I think we both crave that. Is that right? Yeah.
And I would say that the two, so you, you know, great mom. And like, you would walk into a room and be like, hi.
And I'm already frustrated and angry. I'm like, and then I felt guilty because you devoted your life to me.
you were like so amazing. And I didn't have the context or the words to explain what my frustration was as a kid.
And later I could see that two of the bigger challenges for me was more of the authoritarian parenting style that I think you were raised with. And I know you had it even more strict than I did and wanted to evolve that.
Um, but I wanted to feel more freedom. I wanted, you know, not when I was 18, which I heard a lot.
I remember when we were growing up over the, I don't know if you remember this, I'm sure you do, but over the kitchen table, there was this art piece of a hen. I'm a mommy.
That's why. And that was like kind of the motto, you know, you didn't like, I didn't like that at all.
And it was a lot like my, my mantra was, you're not the boss of me. No, I definitely fought back.
I was like, you're, you're like told everyone, you're not the boss of me. And I wanted more of that autonomy.
Yeah. Okay.
Sure. But the thing that we'll talk about more on this podcast is the over-responsibility and how that played out throughout and how that's evolved in our evolution, our relationship, and how that can cause a lot of health benefits and side effects and things with current research, which we'll talk about.
But the over-responsibility, what that meant for me was that I would often go to the parent, the adult understanding or the intellectual understanding rather than the point of view of the child. So I would intellectualize.
I'd be like, oh, I understand. But then I would abandon what my truth was as a kid to caretake.
I really self-appointed being the glue in the family, being the one that wanted to make everyone happy and wanting to help everyone. I mean, I became a therapist.
I think that was some of it was like wanting to understand marriage and wanting to like help people, which has a good intention, but not when it's being abandoning my own needs or my authentic experience. And I didn't feel any of that.
I didn't feel that you were taking that on. I know.
I know. I didn't think I knew it until later.
You know, I think a lot of the times I think with kids that, and I'm still unraveling that it's no longer with you anymore. And I'll share some of the evolution with it, but I'm, I'm still unraveling that.
And in some of these things are really secretive. And I think, you know, Gabor Mate, who's been really a big influence,

I think for both of us and share some of his work, but he says that the child to create attachment has to abandon the authenticity of the child. So if in the family system,

sometimes it's, it's people aren't as a conscious, like for example, maybe in somebody's family

system, you can't be angry or it's not okay to cry or whatever the family dynamics are. We don't know that until later in life to be like, not everyone does it that way.
And so without the understanding, the awareness or the language, it can just feel frustrating where you're like, hi. And I'm like, and you devote your life to me.
And then I feel guilty. I'm like, why do I feel this way? I didn't get it.
And you didn't get it. And then we felt further divided.
Right. And, you know, and, and we've both since done so much work to support ourselves in evolving.
When was the first time you felt like we connected more authentically? I think, gosh, you were always so mature when you played, let's make a deal. You were in eighth grade and we we went into...
I'm always making deals here. Yeah, I know.
I thought, oh, she's going to be an attorney. But you said, let me do what I need to do to get my homework in on time so you're not always on me for it.
Yeah. And if I can prove that to you, then will you stop nagging me about it? And I thought, do I want to do this? Do I want to let go of this? And I thought, okay, we'll do it.
So eighth grade report card came around and I saw your report card and I just kind of quietly went into a corner and started crying because you did it. Yeah.
And I really want to honor you because the way you parented my, your oldest son, he needed something different and I needed something different. And for you to be willing to hear that, I think it's such a gift and to negotiate, well, let me, here's your end goal.
Here's my end goal. That was pretty clever.
I thought i thought oh i can do this more because you

understood and you're more mature and you can take more on and i i was able to let go yeah and it felt easier on me i thought oh thank god now i don't have to be on top of you know do your homework yeah well we both won yeah yeah what about challenges raising me as a daughter what were some of the challenges for you? You weren't me. I wasn't you? I wanted somebody that did.
Complied, behaved. Such a good girl.
Yeah, I wasn't used to, I wasn't familiar with any kind of rebellion or pushback. Because you didn't do that as a kid, you mean? Never.
No, I didn my parents I was the oldest I was you know setting an example so I was supposed to be and according to my parents and it was yeah you were a challenge at times you know overall I knew from early on that you were a good kid obviously but I didn't I didn't like the I'm taking off I'm going to be here and then you don't come home for hours and you weren't home a lot and I thought oh wow that's that was hard to be around yeah and I felt like the first time we authentically connected was when we had our first therapy session. And, you know, bless you because I really went for it.
In that therapy session, I was like, here's everything you would never want to, that I haven't told you about me, that I've had sex, that I did drugs, that I did all the things that I knew you wouldn't approve of. And I was like, and I'm a good kid.
And let's start here and bless you for just being open to hear it. And it was a big session, but I felt the safety of that container to just put it all out there.
And I think that I felt most connected to you for the first time because I was being authentic, because I was able to share all of me, the things that I didn't think you would think were good. And I was a really good kid.
I did grow up fast. I had two older brothers.
I meet challenges, but I really was mature. I really was, I did know I had a really strong ballast and level of maturity.
So I wanted to have that authentic experience. What was, I never asked you, what was that therapy session like for you having your, you know, daughter say, there's everything.
There was some stuff I wasn't wanting to share with your dad on that one. Not now.
Wow. How much do I, for me though? Um, it was a shock.
It was, I lived through it.

I mean, I was okay understanding you

and knowing pretty much what you were feeling. I appreciated having the safety to know that whatever was shared there was either confidential and it would be okay.
Like I felt like that was almost like safe zone. You know, like in some ways, like we could go back to life and I wouldn't be punished for it.
Another thing I just want to mention, which I thought was really brilliant and really wise in the parenting, two things I'll mention actually, just in case it helps people that are like, I want to raise my kids. And what two things that you guys did was if any of us had a friend that was driving drunk, you would say, you don't need to tell me anything.
You can call at any time in the morning and I will pick you up and I won't ask questions so that we were safe.

Yep. I loved that.
I always knew I could do that. I think I probably used it.
I think so too. And then the other thing was- And I appreciated that.
Yeah. And then the other one was around not assuming that you guys were going to get us a car.
So like actually encouraging us and feeling supported, you know, not every person is in this situation, but supporting us and saying, okay, if you're working, whatever you have in the bank, we'll take out one third. Yes.
And we will keep that for gas repairs and then we'll double the two thirds. So it was encouraging and it was also like you're supported because you guys could financially, but it was also like, and show up for it.
We'll meet you in that. So just side note, I thought those were really great things that made a difference.
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The therapy session was a big one for me. The report card was big for you.
I felt like the

next big journey and our healing of our relationship was when I was in grad school. So I went to get my master's in spiritual psychology and I started really doing some deep work inside me and they had an opportunity.
They said, take a challenging relationship that means a lot to you. That would be the biggest bang for your buck if you could actually heal and change it.
And the beauty of it was, so I chose you that I worked on my relationship with you for nine months, but this is really important to know that I didn't actually work with you on it. I worked around my triggers with you inside myself.
And as I changed, our relationship changed and it was such a gift. And we're going to go deeper into the specifics of how we did this towards the end as well, but I'm going to share a few things here.
So part of, go for it. Yeah.
I was just going to say on your way home on Sunday nights, you would drive from Santa Monica to San Diego and call me. And I thought our conversations were so elevated and so amazing.
And I wanted more of that and it felt good and we were connected and it was wonderful. And we kept each other company where I kept you company while you were driving and it was great.
And then January came around you said I'm not going to do that anymore it was wonderful and we kept each other company or I kept you company while you were driving and it was great and then January came around you said I'm not going to do that anymore it was like you pulled something away from me that was so good yeah and then you said I need to process well I understood that I've had 50 years of therapy already so I I knew that processing was important so I thought okay something is working you and it's it's a gift yeah and and And I think that was first year because I think the first year I was just high and sharing my insights and learnings. And then I realized I want to have time after a big weekend just to be in silence and like let it integrate.
The second year is when I started doing work with you and my relationship, nine months of really focused work. And some of the work that I did that really moved the needle for me was reparenting myself.
So again, not any parent could meet every single one of our needs. And so we learn how to parent ourselves.
And yes, when we're kids, we needed our parents to be a certain way so that we could attach so that we could be safe. And, but as adults, it becomes our responsibility to go back to the memories that were hurtful or needed something different than we were offered, whether our parent wasn't aware or emotionally available.
So for example, I would go back to a memory I would have of wanting more autonomy, for example, and I would listen to my little one, what she wanted to say from her childhood experience. And then I would speak from your higher self, your heart, you are more evolved or, or just from an adult part of me to say, okay, sweetheart, I hear that that's really frustrating.
Tell me more. And then I would let her express.
And then I would parent her and I would tell her, you didn't do anything wrong. This wasn't about you.
And then I would let her express and then I would parent her and I would tell her you didn't do anything wrong this wasn't about you and then I would help her let go or tell her exactly what she needed from you at that exact memory so literally anchoring in the memory letting that come up and out and then meeting it with love that was really healing and doing the forgiveness work which is really powerful so it's really important for people to get that you have to let your honest feelings come up and then do the forgiveness work but the forgiveness work was really helpful and this is from the University of Santa Monica I forgive myself for buying into the misunderstanding and the truth is I forgive myself for buying in the misunderstanding that I should have been any different than the way that I was the truth is I was doing doing my best. The truth is I'm learning and that's totally okay.
And I don't need to judge myself to be different. That actually doesn't help.
And I'm learning that now and I can be compassionate. So reparenting the forgiveness and then projection work was really big.
And so everything that I saw in you. So for example, with projection work, you get really still.
I still like going back to the moment of impact. So going back in your mind to look at what was the memory that came up.
So even if it's say getting triggered in your life now, you can say, is this new or familiar? And oftentimes it's familiar when you tune in your body. It's like, see if there's any images that go with that.
See if there's a younger memory. And if it's there, great.
And if it's not, follow still what the energy is in the moment and do the work from that moment in your mind. And then it starts to unravel all these other things in our life now.
So that's what I did. I will say I'll anchor on those three things because I think those three things.
Cause I think those are easy to, to highlight. But as again, I did the work within me, not you.
And as I did that, our relationship evolved. What I didn't think that would happen was that this beautiful man that I was with thinking I was going to get married to in San Diego is going to get my, I was in two master's degrees.
It was definitely an overachiever. Um, was like, I'm going to be a therapist.
We're going to get married. And we hadn't proposed or anything, but he was saving up for a ring.
And I was no longer, it was no longer a fit to be with him. Right.
And I didn't understand at the time, I was like, why don't I want to be with this man anymore? He's lovely. There's nothing wrong.
This doesn't make sense. And yet I realized because I healed it with you within myself around you directly, I didn't need to play it out with him anymore.
And that was, and I can hear people being like, so if I do this work, am I not going to be with my partner? Maybe. And your partner can also grow and evolve with you, or you just don't play out the same patterns with your partner and then it's less about healing and it's more about celebration of love and creativity and service so i think it's important to do like the first stage healing work and i didn't need me to be there to do that it was just within yourself that's right i didn't need one person work can do change the whole dance that's right that's right and so then i you know i stopped calling you and it sounds like you were like i want i want what she's having yes and so then you signed up yeah for the program it's beautiful program and so tell tell us what was some of the healing work that shifted for you when you were in that program for us around the mother-daughter wound kind of healing? What was some of the stuff that came up for you that supported your healing? Anything that I got triggered by, I needed to heal it within myself.
So it wouldn't trigger me because I know that was a healing and we can move forward with that. From that program, I gained confidence.
I started becoming a healthy nine in the Enneagram

and showing up for myself yes the peacemaker and where I was different levels I started out on healthy nine and and learned how to be a better more fulfilling step forward and speak your truth a sovereign, powerful, insightful woman that changed who I am. And I saw myself doing this work and I liked it.
And, um, I think we connected because I showed up more powerfully for myself. I never heard you say that.
That's right. I saw you blossom in yourself.
you weren't the only one yeah yeah yeah i saw you really and i saw other people witness you and i was she was so different around me yeah i was attracting yeah a lot of people that i didn't know why and someone said it's your energy yeah i thought oh that's interesting yeah and people call you mama judy

you know like you have this like archetypical mother energy but i saw you step into yourself

more fully and gain that confidence and let go of some of this stuff from the past yeah healing the past was it's a generational thing that comes down and until you can heal it, then it won't be triggering you anymore.

Yeah. I know from my experience, I felt like we got to connect a little bit more because I felt like we met more because you were doing the work with dad and healing what was in you

around that relationship. And as you did that, I felt like you got to see me more versus seeing

how the similarities of, of how I am with like my dad. And so I felt like, Oh, we even got closer, but I didn't need you to be that way.
It was a, it was a cherry on top bonus, but I didn't need it by that point, which was nice. And we still had some more healing work to do.
It was still more psychological. I think school is in session every day as one of our teachers there said yeah and it's true and everyday life triggers get to be what we the breadcrumbs towards our awakening towards our healing what i know you mentioned something about when you were 43 or 46 or something um one of my therapists asked me what is it that you want and i had not heard that being referred back to me.
It was a pivotal moment for me. How old were you? 48.
Wow. And I thought, I've been asking that of everyone else.
Yeah. It didn't turn around to myself.
I didn't even consider that question. And it shocked me so much.
But I knew exactly what I want. I started listing light as a as a feather I want sovereignty I just had all this energy behind what what it was it was like explosion yeah and it felt good to see that to know that I deserve that yeah yeah it's interesting that it's so conditioned for women to be the caretakers yeah yeah to be the caretakers to abandon your own needs.
And I think that some of maybe, as we're talking, some of the over-responsibility that filtered down through the lineage of, and it's definitely changed now and it keeps evolving. But I definitely am like, oh, I have to still check in.
What's my truth rather than caretaking or abandoning my needs. was tuning in even just before here in the kitchen with emilio thinking what is over responsibility it's it it feels like when i take care of others without taking care of myself that's what feels like for me around over responsibility because i can care i like caretaking but if i'm abandoning myself if i'm not in the equation it's not sustainable that's more of this like conditioning through our society that we've learned how what women should be like the nurturers you know it's just not it's not it's not healthy no and it can cause a lot of physical effects and we'll talk about that as well dr mate mentions about when you can't say no your body will do it I thought, that's powerful.
Yeah. And I think he said something like 80% of women have autoimmune disease.
You know, it's not just, there's reasons for that. So I acknowledge you for doing the work and I'm a perennial student.
I love working and I'm finding new teachers and ways of being. It's fabulous.
And I think your openness is what helps give you the freedom and the aliveness. And for sure does for me too.
I'm curious, was knowing about your family lineage helpful for you in your healing journey with your mom? Was knowing the context of how she was raised? Yes. Yeah.
It was powerful because seeing the generational patterns that came through i i understood and forgave what i wasn't getting the nurturing that i wanted um and i understood you know how she learned and didn't think that she needed healing she didn't seek it it. But I did ask her the same thing you asked me.
I want a better, more, I want a different, deeper, more connected relationship with you. And she said, what do you mean? We're fine.
I thought, okay, she, she couldn't go there. Yeah.
And I understood it after seeing more family members take on a certain pattern that I had healed.

It was not elevated.

It was brought into the spotlight even more.

Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Like you heal it and then you can see from a different lens.

Yes.

Kind of like we don't even know that we need to heal something until somebody else lives that separately or we've healed it.

And then we start looking with new eyes and we're like, wow wow I didn't even know I was carrying all this weight right and then when you release the pattern it feels so good you know rock out of the backpack yeah I mean that's breaking generational patterns yeah and I appreciated you doing that at your graduation party what graduation party you're from USM you knelt down at auntie's feet you don't remember this sometimes and you said it stops with me the pattern stops with me and i thought that was pivotal it was really powerful to hear that you were aware of that and that you just let her know that yeah and i thought okay yeah this is good yeah and i think part of in my healing i really I, I, again, this is good. Yeah.
And I think part of my healing, I really, again, with this over-responsibility, I would go to like, I understand my parents' trauma and the context that they were born in. So I didn't let my younger one still have an upset.
I didn't want, I was like, I had a great childhood. I couldn't be mad.
I also, well, I became a therapist. So I also heard really challenging upbringings and I had, we have our own share of things, but, but I didn't let, it was almost like an unconscious loyalty to you and dad, not to share when I was hurt or when I didn't feel like my needs were met or, and I know this is common because I I've seen it in the, the healing spaces.
So I just want to name this when it's in it. I think it's important to be real, to express the pain of the childhood experience or the blame or whatever in a healthy and safe environment.
I'm not about Instagram, just blaming parents online. I think there's a place for your younger one to have the upset, to be real, to heal, to really let it come up and out in a safe conscious container.
Yes, it can be in the relationship. Yes, it can be with a trained coach, a facilitator, a therapist, but to let that stuff come out and up so you get to an authentic compassion so that you can move on is really important.
And I, even, you know, a few years ago, I didn't realize I was doing that. I was like, I had a grade and I understood the trauma of you and dad.
And then it was like, but there was still a part that needed to get angry to actually move through and heal. And so I just want to highlight that because I hadn't seen it before.
And actually when I let myself let the anger come up and out or let the hurt, the authentic childhood experience in a safe place, I got lighter. I was like, I felt more connected to you and dad.
And I felt more just like I could breathe deeper, a lot freer. And so, you know, I think it's, there's a place for being angry, but we don't want to live there.
And sometimes I think people can get stuck there. I think it was a little bit more popular in the 80s.
I can see it still sometimes on Instagram where people are getting really stuck on blame. And again, it's okay if a part of us blames and there's a place for that, but not to live there, to let it just be an emotion that moves through.
Because if our parents are the problem, then we won't get free. If I need you to be different for me to be happy, I can't control you.
Or anyone else. Right.
Or anyone else. And then therefore that holds back my healing and it doesn't need to be that way.
And it doesn't mean we want to jump to forgiveness either. Right.
We got to actually be honest with what our experience was. And I remember there was a moment where a friend of mine was on the couch with us in my last house, and she was facilitating a conversation between you and I.
And I kept going to, oh, but I get it. And you know, that's okay.
I went to caretaking of you. And she was like, no, Lissa, what's your authentic childhood experience? And I didn't really understand the wisdom of that until the last few years.
That was a really wise facilitation move. And I want to just speak that in case people have overrode their authentic childhood experience, or if somebody is just living in the authentic childhood experience and not moving on to the more evolved or integrated adult there's no shame or anything wrong but i just took kind of name some cul-de-sacs people can get stuck into so that they can keep moving through and healing what would you suggest a parent would do for a child who's hurt or angry for having that safe container? How would that look? I think it depends on the age stage.
But I think giving them the space to feel safe, to allow the feelings to come up and out. So whether that's with the parent, you know, when they're younger, I think teaching them tools about, you want to hit a pillow? Well, that's what I thought I did.
Yeah. You know and i'm thinking did i ever ask you about that i don't remember hitting a pillow i did later and running around the block especially for the good girl syndrome of like pull it together you know that i mean it's in society whether like it's through a family system it's in society And so really giving, just giving expression to what's there and true.

Again, anger is a feeling. family system it's in society yeah and so really giving just giving expression to what's there and

true again anger is a feeling violence is a behavior yeah so anger is healthy anger is allowed

we we actually want to express it otherwise it can create dis-ease based on current research Gabor Monte so we're holding it back yeah or not just being honest with ourselves or not ever asking, like you said, what do I want? Right. I know somebody asked me on my team, you know, she's like creating my structure.
She's like, what do you want? I really sat there. I was like, Oh, what do I want? You know, I've really, the old pattern of over responsibility had come up to like bending over backwards in business.
So I just want people to see and make the connections that these things, these younger patternings and these conditionings can play out in relationship and work in all of life. And the more we see them, then we see we have choice to do it differently.
And as we heal it at the root within us, it starts to heal everywhere else. Like that's the beautiful part.
Yeah. I like that too.
It's like, what? I got to heal it with my mom and then it heals everywhere else it's valuable it's worth your time and energy to really do that deeper work so that was our phases of going to a master's program in spiritual psychology and then i would say our next big healing journey our next phase was when we did medicine work. And so my experience is up until that point,

we'd done a lot of psychological work. And I felt like we still were looking to connect on a soul level, like really connect with all the filters, the past, the drama, the like trying to heal, like just soul to soul just dropped in and connect.
And we had the gift of being able to do ceremony together and you know i remember i was we were laying on the couch and i just start feeling the medicine kick in and i start feeling it and you're like okay i gotta go and you stood up i thought we were outside going i think we were outside on the couch oh okay yeah and you were like i'm i'm gonna perch and so you walked up and And I was like, okay, I'm going with you. Took my hand.
We ran faster. I just took your hand.
And we just darted to the bathroom. And it was such a spirit-led intervention.
Wow, I was so surprised. Because I just, like, we ended up hours in the bathroom.
This little bathroom. Just dropped in soul to soul, heart to heart connecting.
And yes, it was a powerful moment. And it was because of the work that we had done prior to the offer that gift.
It wasn't just the medicine. It was also the psychological work we had done.
But that was, I feel like the first time we really got to drop in soul to soul and people would knock on the door you guys okay we're like yeah we're fine leave us alone we just got to like yeah share like I love you and all these things that we're doing in our humanness what a word we're trying our best you know and bless those parts of us that get stuck or confused and I was feeling like shouldn't you and Emilio be together and doing your work? And I thought, no, she's here.

She's with me.

Okay, I'm going to just accept that.

And that was hard.

Yeah, yeah.

Tell me more about that, to let yourself receive that time that was really important.

Yeah.

I felt that you wanted to be with me and heal that that which is what i wanted to yeah yeah and we did yeah that was a huge chunk that was like the next layer it wasn't the last layer but it was right it was like the first time right we were like soul to soul like wow i love you and we could have words to be like, we've been trying to do this for years and here we are, and yes. And there was compassion for our humanity, for all the different like drama or parts and all the like projections and filters of past and future that would not have us actually connect.
We had space see that yeah and actually be like no i do care

about you and you are important to me and i want to have this and sometimes it's not always as easy as we want it to be and that was such a big moment hours on the bathroom floor that was beautiful evening it was a beautiful moment and and it was a great it was like chipping away at this iceberg. Yeah.
It was like, it kept every year was the next level and it was getting smaller and smaller, but there was still an iceberg there until for me one last straw, which was my trip to Bhutan. So I go to Bhutan for the gross national happiness conference.
I had a friend that was speaking there about happiness being that happiness being our our true nature not happy happy it's right it's a it's a contentment a joy that is our true nature and we it's not based on a circumstance and it doesn't come and go it is a it is the ground of being our well-being and we we went you know there's four couples all of us were healers and daniel was speaking he's very he comes from yale and does a lot of work with emotional intelligence he's really articulate and he was sharing about i just want to plug this on as a side comment because people think happiness is circumstantial and what we were speaking of is this ground of being this contentment that doesn't come and go. Thoughts come and go.
Feelings come and go. Behaviors come and go.
This ground of being, and I know you know this because you've been tapped into this, is always here. And when we can do some of the psychological work, we reveal what is innately our true nature.
And so that was such a beautiful trip for me because everyone on that trip organically would have something spontaneously come up to be healed. And we would all hold space as a group.
And so my time comes where I could feel something comes up inside me to be presenced. And I let the group know, I was like, can you guys hold? And they were like, we've got you.
And I'm like, so picture this. We've got seven people on a bed, one person that's standing away from the bed.
And I'm like, get the box of tissues. Like I'm about to go into the ugly cry.
I knew that with the groups holding up me, I could actually access and presence a deep sadness that I hadn't been able to. And it was the right timing, the right everything.
And, and I'm, you got to act on those situations when they come follow it. Looking back, I didn't even realize my friend that was facilitating it, Timothy, I forgot that I hired him to work with you because I started working with you and I was like, okay, this feels like over responsible and not good boundaries.
Timothy's a great facilitator, but I didn't realize that he had already been working with you. So he knew your patterning.
Bless him for honoring confidentiality and being a good professional because I didn't know it in that moment. So he had already worked with you.
And he said, you feel complete with what I was there for. And he said, anything said anything else I said I'd like to see what you have to say about this relationship was with us yeah and so I shared and he was my confidant my counselor in healing our relationship so he had the background knowledge of what I was hoping to heal and so he was able to facilitate you and you And you didn't know that.
I had no idea. So he ends up facilitating.
And so we're on this bed and it's kind of like this family constellation type where it's very intuitive, where you kind of, everybody represented a different person in our family and they just felt into the energy and they did what felt right. They don't know anything about my brothers or mom and dad.
They don't know anything. They just follow organically and Timothy was just guiding us.
And I went deep and I was able to presence this sorrow that was inside of me. I think from abandoning myself or playing into this idea that I needed to caretake for others including you yeah because i didn't see your strength when i was growing up i that was you clearly had it and i didn't see it and so then i thought i needed to care take and abandon parts of myself and i went there and i really presence this energy and i remember i was so excited that it cleared and And I'm in Bhutan.
I just, I felt it was the last straw. It had lifted out of me.
And I get on the phone with you and I was like, mom, I healed us. It's done.
And you're like, I'm so happy, honey. I have cancer.
Yeah. Right.
And I was like, this was life testing me. I knew that was the moment.
Was I really able to be there for you without obligation, but from a clean place of I want to be there for you, I want to see you through breast cancer and love you through that. And that for me felt like the moment to be able to not just know it and feel it, but test in life, in reality.
Could I really show up in a new way? And we had a really beautiful experience for me being the first time that i could actually hold space for you and be with you without having to without the obligation or the over responsibility and it was the the a new reference point a new way of being and i felt that i felt clear i felt we were both clear you were very. And there was no old pattern in the way.
And it felt really good. Yeah.
And I appreciated you coming up and caretaking me. Yeah.
And it was the first time I got to do it from a totally different place. And that was such a gift to me.
And sometimes it was a very quick, I healed it. And then it was like, I found out who have cancer.
I was like, wow. It was both of us.
It was very healing for both of us. Yeah.
But I think sometimes it's good to know that it's not really, you could say like testing, but it was like helping integrate or comb out any last debris. But it was so deep, that healing for me that I didn't have anything.
Yeah. And, you know, literally we went from, you'd be like, hi, and I'm triggered and then feeling guilty because you've been an incredible mom.

And I'm like, why am I feeling this way?

To then hiring you, having this healing, hiring you and us being on Zoom.

I couldn't even spend like a day or three days without being triggered.

And then fast forward, hiring you.

And we'd spend hours on Zoom and laughing.

And I was like, who is this? What is what is this relationship like it was so nourishing and light and like i can see you without all of the filters of the past all because all of my my little one like i felt she got what she needed and so i didn't have to then think that it was only in you it was in me too and then we got you got, you know, and I'm still unraveling some of the over responsibility, but it's subtle. Again, it's at work.
It's not really with you. I have to be mindful of it.
But the moment we can see it, usually the hardest thing is not being able to see it. So the moment we can see it, then we see we have other choices.
What would you say was a defining moment for you in our healing because for me it was Bhutan

definitely Bhutan I felt really clear I and probably more like the the journey of healing breast cancer um well because Bhutan I had that healing I had that phone call but where I would imagine you would have experienced me and the shift that happened inside me was when I came up to take care of you and to

be with you through healing cancer. Well then I could not feel any filters or angst or you were

there for me and I felt you being very present and helping me through that. Interesting it

sounds and I'm just realizing it you might have been done before I was. Yeah and it sounded like

Timothy kind of confirmed that was that right? Bhutan was definitely yeah interesting we're clear we're good we made it we made it we did it yeah what were some of the pivotal things that you did to heal and to get clear around our relationship kind of looking back um going to USM for sure yeah trying to understand what you were going through from a compassionate place and knowing that we both wanted to get there i'm not sure about i've done a lot of counseling so yeah and some of the counseling just to speak to because we both went to a same similar type, we went to the same school. So some of that work is really about reparenting ourselves, going back to those memories and really looking at healing.
They call it healing of memories. So going back to the memory and like applying love to the places inside that hurt.
That's a very big part of that school network. And working with my inner counselor, which is a loving, beautiful, wise inner counselor who is my authentic self.

Speaking to the parts of me who are triggered.

And healing that because that is powerful.

Just, okay, what's bothering me?

Okay. So I would dialogue back and forth forth kind of a gestalt kind of thing yeah open chair you could talk from from the part that knows and the part that's scared yeah and letting those two integrate yeah which is really beautiful you can do that in the chair work yeah you can also do that in writing so different aspects right there's a lot of tools there's tools, but I think people want that.
So we can share some. So reparenting.
So talking from the child, you can journal. And again, you can have somebody hold space that's a trained coach or therapist, or you can learn some of these yourself, especially if it's not big T trauma.
It is big T trauma. I highly recommend having somebody that's trained that is trauma informed or a trauma

specialist hold space to do that work the forgiveness work again that was big that was

big for me tell me more um forgiving yourself or for which part that was the hardest part

yeah forgiving previous patterns uh people um so once i forgave the people that I was hurt by. Well, we forgive ourselves for the judgment of those people.
Yes. And what they're going through.
So I was able to see, seeing from an altitude was really powerful. Like, okay, what's going on here? And if I can remove myself from the triggering place yeah and get to that

space that was easier for me to heal it yeah so I was able to heal two important past relationships

and then myself and didn't know that I would be the hardest person to forgive but why do you think

that is thinking I should have known better yeah yeah and knowing it doesn't help yeah exactly

Thank you. forgive but why do you think that is thinking i should have known better yeah yeah and knowing it doesn't exactly exactly you know and i i also wonder you know you being raised catholic and like there's this kind of like penance and i need to punish myself so that then i improve but that doesn't actually work and so i talk about there's different ways of knowing we may mentally know something, but maybe we haven't really integrated into our heart.
And for sure, we haven't integrated into a new way of being. Right.
So like feeling part. Yeah.
So that's like watering a plant where you're what you you have the water seep into deeper ways of knowing we knew it maybe we hadn't really felt it or started to live it until we're tested until we actually apply the work so you know i think that when we're not able to forgive ourselves i think it's because we want to punish because we were taught that through either a religious upbringing or a family system or an unconscious misunderstanding that punishment actually heals yeah that it doesn't you know and it's got a good intention but it doesn't so it's like okay am I willing to try something different because if the intention of punishing myself is so that then I do better moving forward just as a neutral scientist like does that work or does it not yeah and can I test out being compassionate with myself and still learn the lesson and I I really love that we both did a lot of forgiveness work. I think that was really helpful.
So reparenting forgiveness work. I'm a big fan of Byron Katie's projection work.
I think it's the best projection tool on mindset work and the best tool for projections. I'm going to have her on the podcast very soon.
And so just in, you know, just doing the work to see anything that I'm blaming out there points back to myself. And how do I really, instead of like, because I could say mom, and that can come with 40 years of who I've known you to be.
But if I keep seeing you from the past, I'm not actually meeting the evolved woman you are now. Right.
And I, you know, i know we've got some questions from instagram people are asking that we'll go into but like i think meeting somebody fresh in the moment letting them off the hook understanding some of our our lineage of where we came from and we'll talk a little bit more about that okay but is there anything else that feels like that was a pivotal or a helpful part of your healing um watching you grow and learn and help people was helpful to me to just watch you blossom and you became a teacher for me a while back like when you were in middle school i remember you going up to a little boy who was sitting lunch by himself and I thought you said I just had lunch with him and I don't know who he was but he's by himself and I thought oh my gosh good for you thank you you know you were showing me who you are and just watching you grow wanted I wanted to learn more from you and about you and more about me through that. I think that's beautiful to look at parenting as, because I think we both used each other as teachers.
And I think using everyone as a teacher is a masterful way to live, a really freeing way to live. And I know you and I both resonate with Gabor Mate's work.
Dr., his it's, you know, I want to read some of the things that he shares, because what I'm hearing is that because he's a physician and a psychiatrist, which is such a powerful, I mean, his mind is brilliant, his education backs it and his experience. I also want to have him on the podcast.
Oh, I hope so. And And you know, what he says is that there's not a lot of diseases that are only hereditary.
There's some deeper psychological things that are playing in, and we've already kind of hinted to some of that. But he says that there are, I don't want to read these, four characteristics associated with chronic illness.
So I want to read these because this is his work. And I think it's definitely motivated me to do more of my work around having healthy anger, healing over responsibility, checking with my needs.
So the four that he says are the compulsive concern for the emotional needs of others. Two, a rigid compulsive identification with duty, role, or responsibility rather than or opposed to the needs of the self.
Three, repression of anger, healthy anger. And four, the belief that you're responsible for how other people feel coupled with the belief that you must never disobey anyone.
So to think about like, that's actually what's creating. And that you were talking about when the body says no.
If it doesn't have an expression out, it can turn inward. And so if not just living a healthier, freer, open-hearted, open-minded, lighter life is not the carrot or the motivation than some of this research is and I think sometimes suffering or disease has a motivation for us to look again to do some of the deeper work and I'm so honored and grateful I know we both love his work and what I hear is some of the things that have really helped us and I think think, again, it was me doing my work with my story of you.
The triggers I felt in my relationship with you. I want to really highlight that you didn't need to be different for me to find freedom.
Yep. And I've tested that in other relationships.
It is a gift that you were willing and have done your own work. And it's a benefit.
I benefit from it. So grateful but i didn't need it yeah and so you doing your work me doing my work us doing our work all of it added to it but it didn't it wasn't a need and i really got to see where i thought i'd go back to specific memories where i was like where i felt like i needed to be your backbone or i needed to support you which was all all, it was mine, self-imposed.
I would go back and then I would look again without the story that I needed to do that or that I didn't see you as strong. And I saw your strength and I needed my little one to see your strength in that memory and in that age stage.
So it was like, oh, and I, and I remember doing this visualization where I saw like a cord of golden light and you tapped into your authentic self. You can call it your authentic self, your inner counselor, but just you tapped into your strength and radiance.
Then my little one was settled. I was like, oh, then I don't need to do it.
Oh, yeah. And I exhaled and I was like, she's got her strength.
So then I would forgive my, I forgive myself for buying into the misunderstanding that I needed to be strong for her. The truth is that's not my job and she has her strength and I can see that now.
So doing some of that work to, to see it and to let you have your experience, then I was able to settle a bit more and not feel like I needed to do it for you. And I think that my responsibility really rooted in childhood.
And so I got to go back to those memories to look at that. But this is the true for any pattern people are looking at, whether it be around not having good boundaries, over-responsibility, people-pleasing, anything.
We go back to the original misunderstandings to look again, to question our to question our misunderstandings to see and hear what we needed then in that memory we offer it now and it starts changing everything else in our current situation let's take out i know people had questions on instagram so let's answer some of those for people and then we'll talk more so what was the the first question people had asked? How do I not give my daughter a wound to begin with? Yeah. So my answer would be that we are never going to be perfect parents and your daughter is going to have wounds.
And so I would rather support, and this is what we've done as a conscious family, to support the kids in having the tools to move through things and equip them rather than trying to manage life or try to be perfect because it's never going to happen.

And challenges are going to come up, but how do you repair?

It's more important how we repair than if a challenge comes up.

And so I just want to encourage people to, I think the best thing we can do for our kids is our own work to be an example. Definitely.
I'm curious, what would you say to your younger self as a new mom now? If you, or if you were to go back to a memory when you were, cause nobody gives us a manual about what would you say to yourself as a mom what did she need to hear oh what did she need to hear yeah your younger self I think that I already knew the answers I knew how to be I knew that children needed love and I had that you told me that When I first became a mom. I remember that.

And I'm a stepmama.

And I was like, oh my God, zero to three.

I've got three kids under three.

And it was just like, here we go.

And a house and a dog and a cat.

And a cat.

And I was like, this just, you know.

And I was like, I didn't have the nine months to prepare.

And you were like, just love them.

Yes, I remember that.

And everything else falls into place.

That's beautiful.

Thank you for that.

That was really, I was like, okay, I got this.

You know how to do that.

I know how to do that i know how to do that yeah yeah thank you for that yeah that's all and now you know hearing they need to be loved and accepted and listened to and i mean there's so much more but loving is is everything yeah and i also know that you know like kids crave being seen, authentically being seen, not for what they do, how they behave, because behaving is good for the parents, but maybe conforming for the child. And I felt like when a child is seen soul to soul and it just takes one person, it keeps something alive in them.
And that can, we can be that for ourselves. Now we needed our parents then to to do that but we get to also go back and do that for those younger memories and parts that needed it then now and it still matters okay the next question oh next question is how to not get triggered every time my mom goes into her patterns example she holds every mistake i've made against me and never stops trying to give me advice, etc.
My experience is the more I focus on someone else and wanting them to be different, rather than the pattern that's getting triggered inside of me, the further away I am from my healing. So if I'm stuck in blame, then I'm not actually going to look at what's being triggered inside of me.
And how do I actually heal at the root and so i find projection work to be really powerful yeah around that good yeah how to overcome my resentment or being defensive around my mom so i will say i'm always talking trauma informed so if there's big t trauma again get a specialist have somebody hold that space for you, but do the work. I promise you it's so good.
And, and what that, you know, it's, it's not time that heals it's love. And so having the space that's safe to authentically express the resentment because resentment's anger, let it come up and out and then bring love, bring forgiveness.
That's the alchchemy that transforms it but you can't jump to forgiveness without authentically expressing the hurt otherwise it's a bypass and it's not an on a solid foundation and so having that safe space to do that work and then the forgiveness you change and the relationship changes your mom can still be the same it's not about her, but your relationship with her will be different. And you might, you know, you might even say,

yeah, I would just, I would, I would work with like offering myself the space to also have my humanity and let myself know that it's okay. I talk about toilet temples.
Like at any moment,

you need a moment, you need pause. You just go to the bathroom and you resource yourself.
That's

your toilet temple. Like just take a moment.
You can always use that excuse to be like,

Thank you. temples, like at any moment you need a moment, you need pause.
You just go to the bathroom and you resource yourself. That's your toilet temple.
Like just take a moment. You can always use that excuse to be like, okay.
And I promise like do the more of the work and then it does get lighter. It does get easier.
Sometimes it's like, and don't do it with an agenda because it'll take like, it'll seem like it's taking forever, but just notice the progress. And sometimes when we don't think it's happening, it still is.
It's just underneath the surface. And then there's a moment that it clears.
Yeah. Okay.
What would you say about that? I definitely do your trigger work. Anything that triggers you, it's not anybody else's issue.
It's your own and you need to clear that and figure that out. Yeah.
Yeah. And if like, if, if, if you weren't there for me, you weren't as present of a mom, I would let myself have my upset and my anger about that.
And then I would use you to teach me self-love. I would use you not being there to learn how to be there for the parts of me that need it.
I would, I would reparent myself rather than staying in a victim. I would really use it to say, how do I love those? Like, how do I use every, I don't know what should or shouldn't happen.
What I do know is that it did happen. And how do I use everything for my growth, for my healing, for awakening? That is an empowering way to live.
And so, yeah, that's my encouragement for people. And I also know that people are like, either I don't want to do this work with my mom, I'm not ready, or I just want to have more connection with her this Mother's Day.
And I want to start with celebrations and deeper intimacy. I want to share three questions that they can ask their mom and kind of develop that.
So the first question that I would say is, and you can both ask these. So I just wrote these down that I'll share.
So the first one is you can say, and I'll put these in the show notes on YouTube, but one memory I have of us where I felt so loved and connected was, and so I could share, you could share, and then you have a different question to create more intimacy. So for example, one memory where I felt so connected and loved by you is in 2019, I had, well, I'm just sharing one that comes up.
I had an event here with a few hundred people and you volunteered to support at that. And at the end of it, I think either, I think we were sober, but I think we were punched drunk at the end.
And I said something on an Instagram story and you corrected me because I usually say the thing wrong. I make up words, you know, my Alyssa-isms, like I'll make up a word if I don't know what it is.
And I said something wrong and you corrected me and we were just laughing. No, it was in a safe environment.
You often correct me. I need you to correct me.
But we were just laughing.

I was peed my pants laughing so hard.

I still have that video.

And it was, again, this new context of like who we are now and how much lightness there is here.

Light and laughter and fun.

And yeah, I love that.

So you guys could both answer that.

Another question you can say is, can you share a story?

This is probably more for a mom. Can you share a story from your past that shaped who you are today and then then you guys can share and then the third question is and both of you could answer this if you want but what's one memory where I saw your strength or one memory where I was really proud of you you want to share one I love learning yourself yeah I love growing and getting lighter and laughing and having fun energy.
It feels good to laugh. And that laughter story was really good.
I'm laughing a lot every day, every night, and I'm loving my life. So that feels good.
But a moment that you were proud of yourself or me? Proud of myself I just just share but of you it's like every moment that I see you grow and how present you are with people and how vulnerable you are and how you're helping so many people and it's just so touching people come up to me say oh you're alyssa's mom I'm very proud of you thanks mom yeah yeah yeah and I think that touches you 40 40 years of which moment do I pick you know just beautiful yeah thank you for that and for being that mom and and I do I also know that understanding more of our context supports us of us. I think understanding our family's history and the generational patterns that were passed down, both positive and negative are important.
So one bonus question you could ask is, when you think of your family growing up, what do you see as a gift that they had or a challenge that they faced? And when I was reflecting, some examples are gratitude. Like I know, like our family had a lot of, we have a lot of gratitude.
Like you live in gratitude. It's really beautiful.
You model that. And also the, just that family is really important.
We prioritize connection and, you know, so interesting. Well, we'll, we'll talk about our family another time, but we all had awakening at the same time yeah um without talking to each other about it that's very rare so like those are some of the gifts or like thinking of your lineage when i would say one of the challenges of of your lineage would be uh cutting people off no longer speaking to each other you know and i think that's the best way we've known how to process or create safety.
But that is something to be aware of. That's like, yeah, you know, that's something that we could work on as a family.
But knowing both gifts and the challenges. And reaching out can also be a no thank you.
Yes. And that's hard.
And you have to honor that. Yeah, I do.
If they're not ready. or if they end and you know and us talking about this sometimes the no thank you is the mother doing that to the daughter or the daughter doing that to mother and so if it's ever not safe or you it's destructive or for whatever reason it doesn't feel like you want to do this work with your family members that's okay and to create that safety for yourself but but still my biased opinions to do the work is to still do it.
Yeah. So just in closing, I just want to, I want to highlight how beautiful it is to see you age.
Oh, thank you. Because there's such a cultural narrative about when you get older, you go downhill or life doesn't, isn't as vibrant.
And I want more examples. And I want to highlight examples in my life where my experience is that you, your life keeps getting better where you're rocking your long silver hair.
You met the, I've never seen you more in love in your life. Like after this, we're going to go shopping for your wedding dress because you're engaged're engaged you're traveling the world like you reconnected with your first crush at five years old well it was more like 12 okay kindergarten we met kindergarten met first we're 12 year old crush reconnected at a reunion like bought your your your dream home renovating it like traveling the world just living your best life and i think it's important to see women rocking it in their later years and i just want to acknowledge you because you're imprinting for me that life can still keep getting better and why not yeah yeah i love it it is yeah it's beautiful and you're radiating you're shining just talking about it like i can see it on you yeah and i just want to say thank you for loving thank you for being patient with me thank you for doing the work all on me thank you for creating safety thank you for just being the mother that you are and i i'm so grateful that i felt so that we got to this point in our relationship I know that we really I mean it took years yeah but it was worth all of it and I hope that this serves people in some way and I'm just I want more people to have this whether again they're having that relationship with their mom or not it affects every other relationship so I love you and I'm so grateful thanks babe I love you

I love you. And I'm so grateful.
Thanks, babe. I love you.
I love you. Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the world, starting with yourself.
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I have so much magic. I can't wait to share with you.
And you can find all this information in the show notes below. But lastly, if you're on Instagram, I love connecting and hearing from you.
So come on over and say hello. I'm at Alyssa Nobriga.
Thank you again for being here. I cannot

wait to share more with you.