Healing the Mother-Daughter Relationship - With My Mom | EP 35

Speaker 1 We had the gift of being able to do ceremony together. And, you know, I remember I was, we were laying on the couch and I just start feeling the medicine kick in.
And I start feeling it.

Speaker 1 And you're like, I'm going to purge. And so you walked up and I was like, okay, I'm going.

Speaker 2 You took my hand and we went.

Speaker 1 I just took your hand, Esther.

Speaker 1 And we just darted to the bathroom. And

Speaker 1 it was such a spirit-led intervention.

Speaker 2 Wow, I was so surprised.

Speaker 1 We ended up hours in the bathroom. This little bathroom.
Just dropped in, soul to soul, heart to heart, connecting.

Speaker 1 We're trying our best, you know, and bless those parts of us that get stuck or confused.

Speaker 2 And I was feeling like,

Speaker 2 shouldn't you and Amelia be together and doing your work? And

Speaker 2 I thought, no, she's here, she's with me. Okay, I'm going to just accept that.
And that was hard. Yeah.

Speaker 1 To let yourself receive that time, that was really important.

Speaker 2 I felt that you wanted to be with me. Yeah.
And heal that, which is what I wanted too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Welcome. I'm Alyssa Nobriga, your host of the Healing and Human Potential podcast, a place for you to discover the multi-dimensionality of what it means to be human.

Speaker 1 Over the past 20 years, I've trained thousands of coaches in my methodology, leveraging my experience as a former psychotherapist, and I'm here to share with you all the wisdom and insights that I've learned along the way.

Speaker 1 Each week, I'll share with you life-changing tools to support you in in awakening and manifesting your dream life from the inside out.

Speaker 1 We'll be exploring the intersection between ancient wisdom and modern everyday life, really diving deep into the art of human potential through the lens of psychology, spirituality, and coaching.

Speaker 1 Let's let the magic unfold.

Speaker 1 I understand most mother-daughter relationships are sensitive.

Speaker 1 You might have lost your mom, not had a present mom, whether that's physically or emotionally, or even despite all your attempts at having a healthy mother-daughter relationship, it just hasn't worked out.

Speaker 1 And everyone's relationship is gonna look different and I know it's not always easy.

Speaker 1 And so today I'm bringing my mom on the podcast with the intention of sharing our insights, stories, and lessons that we've learned along the way towards healing our relationship over the years.

Speaker 1 I didn't think it was possible to actually heal this core relationship, but I found that it is. And so my hope is that by sharing our story, it supports you in yours.

Speaker 1 And we'll share practical tools and tips and ways you can heal throughout the episode, whether you choose to do it on your own and not see your mom again, or you want to do this work with your mom.

Speaker 1 This episode is here to support you in your healing if you want that. I am so honored that you are here.
Thank you for your willingness to get on the podcast and share about our journey.

Speaker 1 I just want to first start off by sharing the context of how much I love you and how much I felt wanted and supported as a child.

Speaker 1 I know we're going to, in this podcast highlight some of the challenges of the mother-daughter wound, but I think it's important because to context that I had a really privileged and beautiful upbringing and I know that you devoted your life to being a good mom and taking parenting courses 40 years ago was super innovative and not a lot of people were doing that and you wanted to offer us something better than you had.

Speaker 1 And we got that, my brothers and I. And I'm so grateful for that.

Speaker 1 And so I want to just start off by thanking you for devoting your life to us and for being a present mom and for caring and for doing your work.

Speaker 2 Thanks, honey. Yeah.
Happy to be here.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I love you.
Yeah, me too.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I know that some of what we're going to talk about is more of our challenges. So I think it's important to context that.
Right. And as a therapist, people would say that if

Speaker 1 we had a client that was like, I had a great childhood, no challenges, my parents are perfect. That's actually a red flag.
That's not true.

Speaker 1 We want to be able to hold the gifts and the challenges both and learn from all of it

Speaker 1 and so i just i have notes here because there's so much i want to share i know that people had questions on instagram there's some research and takeaways i want to get to so i

Speaker 1 i know that we'll mainly talk about our evolution of the challenges that we've had so let's do that so contexting how grateful I am and how great it was.

Speaker 1 And also this podcast is for people at different types of dynamics with their mom. Sure.
And so that's really important because the work is really with us and not with someone else.

Speaker 1 So, in terms of our evolution and our relationship, I would tell people that you are like Mrs. Cleaver from the TV show Leave It Tip Beaver.
You had this like good girl syndrome. I want to be good.

Speaker 1 And that was really coming from a lot of your parenting and what you got when you were raised of like being the good girl and wanting that for me, you know, wanting me to be the good girl.

Speaker 1 That's how I felt. I'll share my experience.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And so, what that caused for me was wanting a more authentic and deeper connection with you, but not knowing how to get that.
I think we both crave that. Is that right?

Speaker 1 And I would say that the two,

Speaker 1 so you, you know, great mom, and like you would walk into a room, you'd be like, hi, and I'm already frustrated and angry. I'm like,

Speaker 1 and then I felt guilty because you devoted your life to me and you were like so amazing. And I didn't have the context or the words to explain what my frustration was as a kid.

Speaker 1 And later I could see that two of the bigger challenges for me was more the authoritarian parenting style that I think you erase with.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I know you had it even more strict than I did and wanted to evolve that.

Speaker 1 But I wanted to feel more freedom. I wanted, you know, not when I was 18, which I heard a lot.
I remember when we were growing up. Over the, I don't know if you remember this.

Speaker 1 I'm sure you do, but over the kitchen table, there was this art piece of a hen. I'm a mom, that's why.
And that was like kind of the motto, you know. You didn't like that.
I didn't like that at all.

Speaker 1 And it was a lot like my, my mantra was, you're not the boss of me. No, you know, I know.
I definitely fought back. I was like, you're, you're, like, told everyone, you're not the boss of me.

Speaker 1 And I wanted more of that autonomy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, sure.

Speaker 1 But the thing that we'll talk about about more on this podcast is the over-responsibility and how that played out throughout and how that's evolved in our evolution, our relationship, and how that can cause a lot of health benefits and side effects and things with current research, which we'll talk about.

Speaker 1 But the over-responsibility, what that meant for me was that I would often go to the parent, the adult understanding or the intellectual understanding rather than the point of view of the child.

Speaker 1 So I would intellectualize, I'd be like, oh, I understand. But then I would abandon what my truth was as a kid to caretake.

Speaker 1 I really self-appointed being the glue in the family, being the one that like wanted to make everyone happy and wanting to like help everyone.

Speaker 1 I mean, I became a therapist.

Speaker 1 I think that was some of it, was like wanting to understand marriage and wanting to like help people, which has a good intention, but not when it's being abandoning my own needs or my authentic experience.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I didn't feel any of that. I didn't feel that you were taking that on.

Speaker 1 I know, I know. I didn't think I knew it until later.
You know, I think a lot of the times I think with kids,

Speaker 1 and I'm still unraveling that, it's no longer with you anymore, and I'll share some of the evolution with it, but I'm still unraveling that. And

Speaker 1 some of these things are really secretive.

Speaker 1 And I think, you know, Gabor Mate, who's been really a big influence, I think, for both of us, and I'll share some of his work, but he says that the child to create attachment has to abandon the authenticity of the child.

Speaker 1 So if in the family system, sometimes it's it's people aren't as a conscious, like for example, maybe in somebody's family system, you can't be angry, or it's not okay to cry, or whatever the family dynamics are.

Speaker 1 We don't know that until later in life to be like, not everyone does it that way. And so, without the understanding, the awareness or the language, it can just feel frustrating where you're like, hi.

Speaker 1 And I'm like,

Speaker 1 and you devote your life to me, and then I feel guilty. I'm like, why do I feel this way? I didn't get it.
And you didn't get it. And then we felt further divided.
Right.

Speaker 1 And, you know, and we've both since done so much work to support ourselves in evolving. When was the first time you felt like we connected more authentically? I think,

Speaker 2 gosh, you were always so mature. When

Speaker 2 you played Let's Make a Deal, you were in eighth grade

Speaker 2 and we went into...

Speaker 1 I'm always making deals here. Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 I thought, oh, she's going to be an attorney. But you said, Let me do what I need to do to get my homework in on time so you're not always on me for it.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And if I can prove that to you, then will you stop nagging me about it?

Speaker 1 And I thought, hmm, do I want to do this? Do I want to let go of this?

Speaker 2 And I thought, okay, we'll do it. So eighth grade report card came around and I saw your report card and I just kind of quietly went into a corner and started

Speaker 1 crying

Speaker 1 because

Speaker 2 you did it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I really want to honor you because the way you parented your oldest son, he needed something different and I needed something different.

Speaker 1 And for you to be willing to hear that, I think is such a gift and to negotiate. Well, let me, here's your end goal.
Here's my end goal. That was pretty clever.

Speaker 2 I thought, oh, I can do this more because you understood and you're more mature and you can take more on. And

Speaker 2 I was able to let go. Yeah.
And it felt. easier on me.
I thought, oh, thank God. Now I don't have to be on top of

Speaker 1 do your homework.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, we both won. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 What about challenges raising me as a daughter? What were some of the challenges for you?

Speaker 2 You weren't me.

Speaker 1 I wasn't you?

Speaker 1 Yeah. I wanted somebody that complied, behaved.

Speaker 1 Such a good girl.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I wasn't used to, I wasn't familiar with

Speaker 2 any kind of rebellion or pushback or...

Speaker 1 Because you didn't do that as a kid, you mean? Never.

Speaker 2 No, I didn't want to disappoint my parents. I was the oldest.
I was, you know, setting an example. So I was supposed to be, according to my parents.
And

Speaker 2 it was, yeah, you were a challenge at times. You know, overall, I knew from early on that you were a good kid, obviously, but

Speaker 2 I didn't like the,

Speaker 2 I'm taking off, I'm going to be here. And then you don't come home for hours and you weren't home a lot.

Speaker 1 And I thought, oh, wow, that's.

Speaker 2 That was hard to be around.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I felt like the first first time we authentically connected was when we had our first therapy session.

Speaker 1 And, you know, bless you, because I really went for it. Yes, you did.

Speaker 1 In that therapy session, I was like, here's everything you would never want to, that I haven't told you about me.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that I've had sex, that I did drugs, that I did all the things that I knew you wouldn't approve of.

Speaker 1 And I was like, and I'm a good kid. And let's start here.
And bless you for just being open to hear it.

Speaker 1 And And it was a big session, but I felt the safety of that container to just put it all out there.

Speaker 1 And I think that I felt most connected to you for the first time because I was being authentic, because I was able to share all of me, the things that I didn't think you would think were good.

Speaker 1 And I was a really good kid. I did grow up fast.
I had two older brothers.

Speaker 1 I meet challenges, but I really was.

Speaker 1 mature. I really was, I did know I had a really strong balance and level of maturity.
So I wanted to have that authentic experience.

Speaker 1 What was, I never asked you, what was that therapy session like for you? Having your,

Speaker 1 you know, daughter say, here's everything.

Speaker 2 There was some stuff I wasn't wanting to share with your dad on that one.

Speaker 2 Yeah, wow, how much do I

Speaker 2 for me, though?

Speaker 2 It was a shock.

Speaker 1 It was.

Speaker 2 I lived through it.

Speaker 1 I mean, I was okay understanding you and knowing pretty much what you were feeling i appreciated having the safety to know that whatever was shared there was either confidential and it would be okay like i felt like that was almost like safe zone you know like in some ways like we could go back to life and i wouldn't be punished for it another thing i just want to mention which i thought was really brilliant and really wise in the parenting Two things I'll mention actually, just in case it helps people that are like, I want to raise my kids.

Speaker 1 Two things that you guys did was if any of us had a a friend that was driving drunk, he would say, you don't need to tell me anything.

Speaker 1 You can call at any time in the morning and I will pick you up and I won't ask questions so that we were safe. I loved that.
I always knew I could do that. I think I probably used it.

Speaker 2 I think so too. And then the other thing.
And I appreciated that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then the other one was around not assuming that you guys were going to get us a car. So like actually encouraging us and feeling supported.

Speaker 1 You know, not every person is in this situation, but supporting us and saying, okay, if you're working, whatever you you have in the bank, we'll take out one-third. Yes.

Speaker 1 And we will keep that for gas, repairs,

Speaker 1 and then we'll double the two-thirds. So it was encouraging.

Speaker 1 And it was also like, you're supported because you guys could financially, but it was also like, and show up for it. We'll meet you in that.

Speaker 1 So just side note, I thought those were really great things that made a difference.

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Speaker 1 The therapy session was a big one for me. The report card was big for you.
I felt like the next big journey in our healing of our relationship was when I was in grad school.

Speaker 1 So I went to get my master's in spiritual psychology and I started really doing some deep work inside me. And they had an opportunity.

Speaker 1 They said, take a challenging relationship that means a lot to you, that would be the biggest bang for your buck if you could actually heal and change it.

Speaker 1 And the beauty of it was, so I chose you, that I worked on my relationship with you for nine months. But this is really important to know that I didn't actually work with you on it.

Speaker 1 I worked around my triggers with you inside myself. And as I changed, our relationship changed.

Speaker 1 And it was such a gift. And we're going to go deeper into the specifics of how we did this towards the end as well.
But I'm going to share a few things here. So part of, go for it.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I was just going to say, on your way home on Sunday nights, you would drive from Santa Monica to San Diego and call me.

Speaker 2 And I thought,

Speaker 2 our conversations were so elevated and so amazing. And I wanted more of that.
And it felt good. And we were connected.

Speaker 2 And it was wonderful. And we kept each other company.
Or I kept you company while you were driving. And it was great.
And then January came around and you said, I'm not going to do that anymore.

Speaker 2 It was like you pulled something away from me, and that was so good.

Speaker 2 And then you said, I need to process. Well, I understood that.
I've had 50 years of therapy already. So I knew that processing was important.

Speaker 2 So I thought, okay, something is working you, and it's a gift. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I think that was the first year because I think the first year,

Speaker 1 I was just high and sharing my insights and learnings. And then I realized I want to have time after a big weekend just to be in silence and let it integrate.

Speaker 1 The second year is when I started doing work with you and my relationship, nine months of really focused work.

Speaker 1 And some of the work that I did that really moved the needle for me was reparenting myself. So again, not any parent could meet every single one of our needs.
And so we learn how to parent ourselves.

Speaker 1 And yes, when we're kids, we needed our parents to be a certain way so that we could attach, so that we could be safe.

Speaker 1 But as adults, it becomes our responsibility to go back to the memories that were hurtful or needed something different than we were offered, whether our parent wasn't aware or emotionally available.

Speaker 1 How do we really, so for example, I would go back to a memory I would have of like wanting more autonomy, for example, and I would listen to my little one, what she wanted to say from her childhood experience, and then I would speak from your higher self, your heart, you are more evolved, or or just from an adult part of me to say, okay, sweetheart, I hear that that's really frustrating.

Speaker 1 Tell me more.

Speaker 1 And then I would let her express. And then I would parent her and I would tell her, you didn't do anything wrong.
This wasn't about you.

Speaker 1 And then I would help her let go or tell her exactly what she needed from you at that exact memory. So literally anchoring in the memory, letting that come up and out, and then meeting it with love.

Speaker 1 That was really healing. And doing the forgiveness work, which is really powerful.
So

Speaker 1 it's really important for people to get that you have to let your honest feelings come up and then do the forgiveness work. But the forgiveness work was really helpful.

Speaker 1 And this is from the University of Santa Monica. I forgive myself for buying into the misunderstanding.
And the truth is, I forgive myself for buying into the misunderstanding that

Speaker 1 I should have been any different than the way that I was. The truth is, I was doing my best.
The truth is, I'm learning, and that's totally okay. And I don't need to judge myself to be different.

Speaker 1 That actually doesn't help. And I'm learning that now.
Yeah. And I can be compassionate.
So reparenting the forgiveness and then projection work was really big.

Speaker 1 And so everything that I saw in you, so for example, with projection work, you get really still. I still like going back to the moment of impact.

Speaker 1 So going back in your mind to look at what was the memory that came up. So even if it's, say, getting triggered in your life now, you can say, is this new or familiar? And oftentimes it's familiar.

Speaker 1 When you tune into your body, it's like, see if there's any images that go with that. See if there's

Speaker 1 a younger memory. And if it's there, great.
And if it's not, follow still still what the energy is in the moment. And do the work from that moment in your mind.

Speaker 1 And then it starts to unravel all these other things in our life now. So that's what I did.
I did, I will say I'll anchor on those three things because I think those are easy to highlight.

Speaker 1 But as, again, I did the work within me, not you.

Speaker 1 And as I did that, our relationship evolved.

Speaker 1 What I didn't think that would happen was that this beautiful man that I was with, thinking I was going to get married to in in San Diego, was going to get my, I was in two master's degrees, I was definitely an overachiever.

Speaker 1 And I was like, I'm gonna be a therapist, we're gonna get married, and he hadn't proposed or anything, but he was saving up for a ring. And

Speaker 1 I was no longer, it was no longer a fit to be with him. Right.

Speaker 1 Because you healed it. And I didn't understand at the time.
I was like, why don't I want to be with this man anymore?

Speaker 1 He's lovely. There's nothing wrong.
This doesn't make sense. And yet I realized because I healed it with you, within myself, around you directly,

Speaker 1 I didn't need to play it out with him anymore.

Speaker 1 And that was, and I can hear people being like, so if I do this work, am I not going to be with my partner?

Speaker 1 Maybe.

Speaker 1 And your partner can also grow and evolve with you. Or you just don't play out the same patterns with your partner.

Speaker 1 And then it's less about healing and it's more about celebration of love and creativity and service. So I think it's important to do like the first stage healing work.
And

Speaker 1 you didn't need me to be there to do that it was just within yourself that's right i didn't need you to do the work can do change the whole dance that's right that's right and so then i you know I stopped calling you and it sounds like you were like,

Speaker 1 I want what she's having. Yes, that's what I'm doing.
And so then you signed up for the program. It's a beautiful program.
And so

Speaker 1 tell us, what was some of the healing work that shifted for you when you were in that program or for us around the mother-daughter wound kind of healing?

Speaker 1 What was some of the stuff that came up for you that supported your healing?

Speaker 2 Anything that I got triggered by, I needed to heal it within myself so it wouldn't trigger me because I know that was a healing and we can move forward with that.

Speaker 2 From that program, I gained confidence. I started becoming a Healthy Nine in the Enneagram and showing up for myself

Speaker 2 as the peacemaker. And where I was

Speaker 2 different levels, I started out on Healthy Nine and learned how to be a better, more fulfilling, step forward and speak your truth, sovereign,

Speaker 2 powerful, insightful woman that changed who I am. And I saw myself doing this work and I liked it.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I think we connected because I showed up more powerfully for myself.

Speaker 1 I never heard you say that. That's right.
I saw you blossom in yourself.

Speaker 2 You weren't the only one.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I saw you really,

Speaker 1 and I saw other people witness you.

Speaker 2 She was so different around me.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 2 I was attracting

Speaker 2 a lot of people that I didn't know why. And someone said it's your energy.
And I thought, oh, that's interesting.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And people call you Mama Judy, you know, like you have this like archetypical mother energy.

Speaker 1 But I saw you step into yourself more fully and gain that confidence and let go of some of the stuff from the past.

Speaker 2 Yeah, healing the past was, it's a generational thing that comes down and until you can heal it, then

Speaker 2 it won't be triggering you anymore.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I know from my experience, I felt like we got to connect a little bit more because I felt like we met more because you were doing the work with dad and healing what was in you around that relationship.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 as you did that, I felt like you got to see me more versus seeing how the similarities of how I am with like my dad.

Speaker 1 And so I felt like, oh, we even got closer, but I didn't need you to be that way. It was a cherry-on-top bonus, but I didn't need it by that point, which was nice.

Speaker 1 We still had some more healing work to do. It was still more psychological.

Speaker 2 I think school is in session every day, as one of our teachers there said. Yeah.
And it's true.

Speaker 1 And everyday life triggers get to be what we, the breadcrumbs towards our awakening, towards our healing.

Speaker 1 I know you mentioned something about when you were 43 or 46 or something.

Speaker 2 One of my therapists asked me, what is it that you want? And I had not heard that being referred back to me. It was a pivotal moment for me.

Speaker 1 How old are you? 48. Wow.

Speaker 2 And I thought, I've been asking that of everyone else.

Speaker 2 It didn't turn around to myself. I didn't even consider that question.
And it shocked me so much. But I knew exactly what I wanted.
I started listing light as a feather. I want sovereignty.

Speaker 2 I just had all this energy behind what it was. It was like explosion.
And it felt good to see that, to know that I deserve that.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's interesting that it's so conditioned for women to be the caretakers.

Speaker 1 Yeah, to be the caretakers, to abandon your own needs. And I think some of maybe as we're talking, some of the over-responsibility that filtered down through the lineage.

Speaker 1 And it's definitely changed now and it keeps evolving.

Speaker 1 But I definitely am like, oh I have to still check in what's my truth rather than caretaking or abandoning my needs I was tuning in even just before here in the kitchen with Emilio thinking what is over responsibility it's it it feels like when I

Speaker 1 take care of others without taking care of myself

Speaker 1 that's what feels like for me around over responsibility because I can care I like caretaking but if I'm abandoning myself if I'm not in the equation it's not sustainable that's more of this like conditioning through our society that we've learned how what women should be like the nurturers, you know, and it's just not it's not it's not healthy.

Speaker 1 No, and it can cause a lot of physical effects. And we'll talk about that as well.
Dr.

Speaker 2 Mate mentions about when you can't say no, your body will do it for you. And I thought that's powerful.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and I think you said something like 80% of women have autoimmune disease. You know, it's not just

Speaker 1 there's reasons for that. So

Speaker 1 I acknowledge you for doing the work.

Speaker 2 And I'm a perennial student. I love working.
and I'm finding new teachers and ways of being.

Speaker 1 It's fabulous. And I think your openness is what helps give you the freedom and the aliveness.
It for sure does for me too.

Speaker 1 I'm curious, was knowing about your family lineage helpful for you in your healing journey with your mom? Was knowing the context of how she was raised? Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It was powerful because seeing the generational patterns that came through,

Speaker 2 I understood and forgave what I wasn't getting, the nurturing that I wanted.

Speaker 2 And I understood, you know, how she learned and didn't think that she needed healing. She didn't seek it.
But I did ask her the same thing you asked me.

Speaker 2 I want a better, more, I want a different, deeper, more connected relationship with you. And she said, what do you mean? We're fine.
And I thought, okay,

Speaker 2 she couldn't go there.

Speaker 2 And I understood it after seeing

Speaker 2 more family members take on a certain pattern that I had healed. It was

Speaker 2 not elevated. It was brought into the spotlight even more.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that makes sense. Like you heal it and then you can see from a different lens.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Kind of like we don't even know that we need to heal something until somebody else lives that separately or we've healed it and then we start looking with new eyes and we're like, wow, I didn't even know I was carrying all this weight.

Speaker 2 And then when you release the pattern, it feels so good.

Speaker 1 Rock out of the backpack. Yeah.
I mean, that's breaking generational patterns.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I appreciated you doing that at your graduation party.

Speaker 1 What graduation party?

Speaker 2 You're from USM.

Speaker 2 You knelt down at Auntie's feet. You don't remember this sometimes.
And you said, it stops with me. The pattern stops with me.
And I thought that was pivotal.

Speaker 1 It was...

Speaker 2 really powerful to hear

Speaker 2 that you were aware of that and that you just let her know that. Yeah.
And I thought, okay,

Speaker 2 this is good.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and I think part of in my healing, I really,

Speaker 1 again, with this over-responsibility, I would go to, like, I understand my parents' trauma and the context that they were born in. So I didn't let my younger ones still have an upset.

Speaker 1 I didn't want, I was like, I had a great childhood. I couldn't be mad.

Speaker 1 I also became, well, I became a therapist. So I also heard really challenging upbringings.

Speaker 1 And I had, we have our own share of things, but, but I didn't let, it was almost like an unconscious loyalty to you and dad not to share when I was hurt or when I didn't feel like my needs were met.

Speaker 1 Or, and I, I know this is common because I, I've seen it in the, the healing spaces. So I just want to name this.
When it's in it, I think it's important to be real, to express the pain.

Speaker 1 of the childhood experience or the blame or whatever in a healthy and safe environment. I'm not about Instagram Instagram just blaming parents online.

Speaker 1 I think there's a place for your younger one to have the upset, to be real, to heal, to really let it come up and out in a safe, conscious container. Yes, it can be in the relationship.

Speaker 1 Yes, it can be with a trained coach, facilitator, or therapist, but to let that stuff come out and up so you get to an authentic compassion so that you can move on is really important.

Speaker 1 And I, even, you know, a few years ago, I didn't realize I was doing that.

Speaker 1 I was like, I had a grade and I understood the trauma of you and dad.

Speaker 1 And then it was like, but there was still a part that needed to get angry to actually move through and heal. And so I just want to highlight that because I hadn't seen it before.

Speaker 1 And actually, when I let myself let the anger come up and out or let the hurt, the authentic childhood experience in a safe place, I got lighter.

Speaker 1 I was like, I felt more connected to you and dad and I felt more

Speaker 1 just like I could breathe deeper, a lot freer. And so, you know, I think it's, there's a place for being angry, but we don't want to live there.
And sometimes I think people can get stuck there.

Speaker 1 I think it was a little bit more popular in the 80s. I can see it still sometimes on Instagram where people are getting really stuck on blame.
And I, again,

Speaker 1 it's okay if a part of us blames and there's a place for that, but not to live there, to let it just be an emotion that moves through. Because if our parents are the problem, then we won't get free.

Speaker 1 If I need you to be different for me to be happy, I can't control you

Speaker 2 or anyone else.

Speaker 1 Right. Or anyone else.
And then therefore that holds back my healing. And it doesn't need to be that way.
And it doesn't mean we want to jump to forgiveness either, right?

Speaker 1 We got to actually be honest with what our experience was. And I remember there was a moment where a friend of mine was on the couch with us in

Speaker 1 my last house and she was facilitating a conversation between you and I. And I kept going to, oh, but I get it.
And, you know, that's okay. Like I went to caretaking of you.

Speaker 1 And she was like, no, Lissa, what's your authentic childhood experience? And I didn't, I didn't really understand the wisdom of that until more, the last few years.

Speaker 1 That was a really wise facilitation move.

Speaker 1 And I want to just speak that in case people have overrode their authentic childhood experience or if somebody's just living in the authentic childhood experience and not moving on to the more evolved or integrated adult.

Speaker 1 There's no shame or anything wrong, but I just to kind of name some cul-de-sacs people can get stuck into so that they can keep moving through and healing.

Speaker 2 What would you suggest a parent would do for a child who's hurt or angry for having that safe container?

Speaker 1 What would they, I think, how would that look? I think it depends on the age stage, but I think giving them the space to feel safe, to allow the feelings to come up and out.

Speaker 1 So whether that's with the parent, you know, when they're younger, I think teaching teaching them tools about

Speaker 1 you want to hit a pillow. Well, that's what I thought I did.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, with the boys anyway, and I'm thinking, did I ever ask you about that?

Speaker 1 I don't remember hitting a pillow. I did later.
And actually, around the block or something. Especially for the good girl syndrome, of like, pull it together, you know.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's in society, whether like it's through a family system, it's in society. Yeah.
And so, really, giving

Speaker 1 just giving expression to what's there and true. Again, anger is a feeling.
Violence is a behavior. Yeah.
So anger is healthy. Anger is allowed.

Speaker 1 We actually want to express it. Otherwise, it can create dis-ease based on current research, God Boramante.

Speaker 2 Or holding it back. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Or not just being honest with ourselves or not ever asking, like you said, what do I want? Right. I know somebody asked me on my team, you know, she's like creating my structure.

Speaker 1 She's like, what do you want? I really sat there. I was like,

Speaker 1 what do I want? Nice. You know, I've really, the old pattern of responsibility had come up to like bending over backwards in business.
So I just want people to see and make the connections that

Speaker 1 these things, these younger patternings and these conditionings can play out in relationship and work in all of life. And the more we see them, then we see we have choice.
to do it differently.

Speaker 1 And as we heal it at the root within us, it starts to heal everywhere else. Like that's the beautiful part.

Speaker 2 Yep. I like that too.
It's like, what?

Speaker 1 I got to heal it with my mom and then it heals everywhere else. It's valuable.
It's worth your time and energy to really do that deeper work.

Speaker 1 So that was our phases of going to a master's program in spiritual psychology. And then I would say our next big healing journey, our next phase was when we did medicine work.

Speaker 1 And so my experience is up until that point, we'd done a lot of psychological work.

Speaker 1 And I felt like we still were looking to connect on a soul level, like really connect with all the filters, the past, the drama, the like trying to heal, like just soul to soul, just dropped in and connect.

Speaker 1 And we had the gift of being able to do ceremony together. And, you know, I remember I was, we were laying on the couch, and I just start feeling the medicine kick in.
And I start feeling it.

Speaker 1 And you're like, okay, I gotta go. And you stood up.
I thought we were outside.

Speaker 1 I think we were outside on the couch. Oh, okay.
Yeah. And you were like, I'm going to purge.
And so you walked up and I was like, okay, I'm going. You took my hand and we walked in.

Speaker 2 I just took your hand

Speaker 1 and we just, we just darted to the bathroom. And

Speaker 1 it was such a spirit-led intervention.

Speaker 2 Wow. I was so surprised.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 I just, like, we ended up hours in the bathroom. This little bathroom.
Just dropped in, soul-to-soul, heart-to-heart, connecting. And yes, it was a powerful moment.

Speaker 1 And it was because of the work that we had done prior to the offer that. gift.
It wasn't just the medicine. It was also the psychological work we had done.

Speaker 1 But that was, I feel like, the first time we really got to drop in soul to soul. And people would knock on the door.
You're like, it's okay. We're like, yep, we're fine.
Leave us alone.

Speaker 1 We just got to like share, like, I love you and all these things that we're doing in our humanness.

Speaker 1 We're trying our best, you know, and bless those parts of us that get stuck or confused.

Speaker 2 And I was feeling like.

Speaker 2 Shouldn't you and Amelia be together and doing your work? And I thought, I was, I thought, no, she's here. She's with me.
Okay, I'm going to just accept that. And that was hard.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Tell me more about that. To let yourself receive that time that was really important.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I felt

Speaker 2 that you wanted to be with me. Yeah.
And heal that, which is what I wanted to.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And we did.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That was a huge chunk.
That was like the next layer. It wasn't the last layer, but it was huge.
It was like the first time

Speaker 1 we were like soul to soul. Like, wow, I love you.
And we could have words to be like, we've been trying to do this for years and here we are.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 And and there was compassion for our humanity, for all the different like

Speaker 1 drama or parts and all the like projections and filters of past and future that would not have us actually connect.

Speaker 1 We had space to see that and actually be like, no, I do care about you and you are important to me and I want to have this. And sometimes it's not always as easy as we want it to be.

Speaker 1 And that was such a big moment, hours on the bathroom floor. That was a beautiful evening.
It was a beautiful moment. And it was a great, it was like chipping away at this iceberg.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 It was like,

Speaker 1 every year was the next level and it was getting smaller and smaller, but there was still an iceberg there until for me,

Speaker 1 one last straw, which was my trip to Bhutan.

Speaker 1 So I go to Bhutan for the Gross National Happiness Conference. I had a friend that was speaking there about happiness being

Speaker 1 happiness being

Speaker 1 our true nature. Not happy, happy.

Speaker 1 It's a contentment, a joy that is our true nature. And it's not based on a circumstance and it doesn't come and go.

Speaker 1 It is the ground of being, our well-being. And we went, you know, there's four couples.
All of us were healers.

Speaker 1 And Daniel was speaking, he's very, he comes from Yale and does a lot of work with emotional intelligence. He's really articulate.

Speaker 1 And he was sharing about, and I just want to plug this on as a side comment because people think happiness is circumstantial.

Speaker 1 And what we were speaking of is this ground of being, this contentment that doesn't come and go. Thoughts come and go, feelings come and go, behaviors come and go.

Speaker 1 This ground of being, and I know you know this because you've been tapped into this,

Speaker 1 is always here. Yeah.
And when we can do some of the psychological work, we reveal what is innately our true nature.

Speaker 1 And so that was such a beautiful trip for me because

Speaker 1 everyone on that trip organically would have something spontaneously come up to be healed. And we would all hold space as a group.

Speaker 1 And so my time comes where I could feel something comes up inside me to be presenced. And I let the group know, I was like, can you guys hold?

Speaker 1 And they were like, we've got you.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, so picture this we've got seven people on a bed one person that's standing away from the bed and I'm like get the box of tissues like I'm about to go into the ugly cry I knew that with the groups holding up me I could actually access and presence a deep sadness that I hadn't been able to and it was the right timing the right

Speaker 1 everything

Speaker 1 and and I'm you got to act on those situations when they come follow it looking back I didn't even realize my friend that was facilitating it Timothy, I forgot that I hired him to work with you because I started working with you and I was like, okay, this feels like over responsible and not good boundaries.

Speaker 1 Timothy's a great facilitator, but I didn't realize that he had already been working with you. So he knew your patterning.

Speaker 1 Bless him for honoring confidentiality and being a good professional because I didn't know it in that moment. So he had already worked with you.

Speaker 2 And he said.

Speaker 2 You feel complete with what I was there for. And he said, anything else? I said, I'd like to see what you have to say about this relationship was with us.

Speaker 2 And so I shared, and he was my confidant, my counselor in healing our relationship. So he had the background knowledge of what I was hoping to heal.
And so he was able to facilitate you. And

Speaker 1 that's the idea. So he ends up facilitating.
And so we're on this bed, and it's kind of like this family constellation type, where it's very intuitive, where you, you kind of, everybody

Speaker 1 represented a different person in our family.

Speaker 1 and they just felt into the energy and they did what felt right there's no they don't know anything about my brothers or mom and dad they don't know anything they just follow organically and timothy was just guiding us and i was i went deep and i was able to presence this sorrow that was inside of me, I think from abandoning myself or playing into this idea that I needed to caretake for others, including you.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Because I didn't see your strength when I was growing up.
I, that was, you clearly had it and I didn't see it. And so then I thought I needed a caretak and abandon parts of myself.

Speaker 1 And I went there and I really presenced this energy. And I remember I was so excited that it cleared and I'm in Bhutan.

Speaker 1 I just, I felt it was the last straw. It had lifted out of me.
And I get on the phone with you and I was like, mom. I healed us.
It's done. And you're like, I'm so happy, honey.
I have cancer.

Speaker 1 Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 And I was like, this was life testing me. I knew that was the moment.
Was I really able to be there for you without obligation, but from a clean place of I want to be there for you.

Speaker 1 I want to see you through breast cancer and love you through that.

Speaker 1 And that for me felt like the moment to be able to not just know it and feel it, but test in life, in reality, could I really show up in a new way?

Speaker 1 And we had a really beautiful experience for me being the first time that I could actually hold space for you and be with you without having to, without the obligation or the over-responsibility.

Speaker 1 And it was

Speaker 1 a new reference point, a new way of being.

Speaker 2 And I felt that. I felt clear.

Speaker 1 I felt we were both clear.

Speaker 2 You were very clear. And there was no

Speaker 2 old pattern in the way.

Speaker 1 And it felt really good. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I appreciated you coming up and caretaking me. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And it was the first time I got to do it from a totally different place. And that was such a gift to me.
And sometimes, it was a very quick, I healed it.

Speaker 1 And then it was like, I found going to have cancer. I was like, wow.

Speaker 2 It was both of us.

Speaker 1 It was very healing for both of us. Yeah.
But I think sometimes it's good to know that it's not really, you could say life testing, but it was like helping integrate or comb out any last debris.

Speaker 1 But it was so deep, that healing for me, that I didn't have anything. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And, you know, literally, we went from you'd be like, hi, and I'm triggered and then feeling guilty because you've been an incredible mom. And I'm like, why am I feeling this way?

Speaker 1 To then hiring you, having this healing, hiring you and us being on Zoom. I couldn't even spend like a day or three days without being triggered.

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 1 fast forward, hiring you. And we'd spend hours on Zoom and laughing.

Speaker 1 And I was like, who is this? What is this relationship? Like, it was so nourishing and light. And like, I can see you without all of the filters of the past.

Speaker 1 All, because all of my, my little one, like, I felt she got what she needed. And so I didn't have to then think that it was only in you, it was in me too.

Speaker 1 And then we got, you know, and I'm still unraveling some of the over-responsibility, but it's subtle. Again, it's at work, it's not really with you.
I have to be mindful of it.

Speaker 1 But the moment we can see it, usually the hardest thing is not being able to see it. So the moment we can see it, then we see we have other choices.

Speaker 1 What would you say was a defining moment for you in our healing? Because for me, it was Bhutan.

Speaker 2 Definitely Bhutan. I felt really clear.

Speaker 1 And probably more like the journey of healing breast cancer.

Speaker 1 Well, because Bhutan, I had that healing, I had that phone call.

Speaker 1 But where I would imagine you would have experienced me and the shift that happened inside me was when I came up to take care of you and to be with you through healing cancer.

Speaker 2 Well, then I could not feel any filters or angst or...

Speaker 2 you were there for me and I felt you being present very present and helping me through that.

Speaker 1 Interesting.

Speaker 1 And I'm just realizing you might have been done before I was. Yeah.
And it sounded like Timothy kind of confirmed that.

Speaker 2 Was that right? No, Bhutan was definitely. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Interesting. We're clear.
We're good.

Speaker 2 We made it.

Speaker 1 We made it. We did it.
Yeah. What were some of the pivotal things that you did to heal and to get clear around our relationship, kind of looking back?

Speaker 2 Going to USM

Speaker 1 for sure.

Speaker 2 Yeah, trying to understand what you were going through from a compassionate place and knowing that we both wanted to get there.

Speaker 2 I'm not sure about, I've done a lot of counseling, so.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and some of the counseling just to speak to, because we both went to a same similar type of, we went to the same school.

Speaker 1 So some of that work is really about reparenting ourselves, going back to those memories and really looking at healing.

Speaker 1 They call it healing of memories.

Speaker 1 So going back to the memory

Speaker 1 and and like applying love to the places inside that hurt. That's a very big part of that school network.

Speaker 2 And working with my inner counselor, which is a loving,

Speaker 2 beautiful, wise inner counselor who is my authentic self, speaking to the parts of me who aren't triggered or and healing that because

Speaker 1 that is powerful.

Speaker 2 Just okay, what's what's bothering me? Okay, so I would dialogue back and forth.

Speaker 2 Kind of a gestalt kind of thing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, open chair. You could talk from the part that knows and the part that's scared.
Yeah. And letting those two integrate, which is really beautiful.
You can do that in the chair work.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You can also do that in writing.
So different aspects, write. There are a lot of tools.
There's a lot of tools. But I think people want that.
So we can share some. So reparenting.

Speaker 1 So talking from the child, you can journal.

Speaker 1 And again, you can have somebody hold space that's a trained coach or therapist, or you can learn some of these yourself, especially if it's not big T trauma.

Speaker 1 If it is big T trauma, I highly recommend having somebody that's trained that is trauma-informed or a trauma specialist holds space to do that work. The forgiveness work again.

Speaker 2 That was big. That was big for me.

Speaker 1 Tell me more.

Speaker 1 Forgiving yourself, or for which part? That was the hardest part.

Speaker 2 Yeah, forgiving previous patterns,

Speaker 2 people.

Speaker 2 So once I forgave the people

Speaker 2 that I was hurt by.

Speaker 1 Well, we forgive ourselves for the judgment of those people.

Speaker 2 Yes, and what they're going through. So I was able to see, seeing from an altitude was really powerful.

Speaker 1 Like, okay, what's going on here?

Speaker 2 And if I can remove myself from the triggering place and get to that space, that was easier for me to heal it. Yeah.
So I was able to heal two important past relationships and then myself and

Speaker 2 didn't know that I would be the hardest person to forgive.

Speaker 1 Why do you think that is?

Speaker 2 Thinking I should have known better. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And knowing it doesn't.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 1 You know, and I also wonder, you know, you being raised Catholic and like there's this kind of like penance and I need to punish myself so that then I improve, but that doesn't actually work.

Speaker 1 And so I talk about there's different ways of knowing. We may mentally know something, but maybe we haven't really integrated it into our heart.

Speaker 1 And for sure we haven't integrated into a new way of being right so like feeling part yeah so it's like watering a plant where you're what you you have the water seep into deep deeper ways of knowing we knew it maybe but we hadn't really felt it or started to live it until we're tested until we actually apply the work yeah so you know I think that when we're not able to forgive ourselves I think it's because we want to punish because we were taught that through either a religious upbringing or a family system or an unconscious misunderstanding that punishment actually heals.

Speaker 1 I know it doesn't. It doesn't, you know, and it's got a good intention, but it doesn't.
So it's like, okay, am I willing to try something different?

Speaker 1 Because if the intention of punishing myself is so that then I do better moving forward,

Speaker 1 just as a neutral scientist, like, does that work or does it not? Yeah. And can I test out being compassionate with myself and still learn the lesson?

Speaker 1 And I really love that we both did a lot of forgiveness work. I think that was really helpful.
So

Speaker 1 re-parenting, forgiveness forgiveness work.

Speaker 1 I'm a big fan of Byron Katie's projection work. I think it's the best projection tool on

Speaker 1 mindset work and the best tool for projections. I'm going to have her on the podcast very soon.

Speaker 1 And so just in, you know, just doing the work to see anything that I'm blaming out there points back to myself.

Speaker 1 And how do I really, instead of like, because I could say, mom, and that can come with 40 years of who I've known you to be.

Speaker 1 But if I keep seeing you from the past, I'm not actually meeting the evolved woman you are now. Right.

Speaker 1 And I, you know, I know we've got some questions from Instagram people are asking that we'll go into.

Speaker 1 But like, I think meeting somebody fresh in the moment, letting them off the hook, understanding some of our lineage of where we came from, and we'll talk a little bit more about that. Okay.

Speaker 1 But is there anything else that feels like that was a pivotal or a helpful part of your healing?

Speaker 2 Watching you grow and learn and help people was helpful to me too.

Speaker 2 Just watch you blossom and

Speaker 2 you became a teacher for me a while back, like when you were in middle school. I remember you going up to a little boy who was sitting lunch by himself and I thought

Speaker 2 you said I just had lunch with him and I don't know who he was but he was by himself and I thought, oh my gosh, good for you. Thank you.

Speaker 2 You know, you were showing me who you are and just watching you grow wanted I wanted to

Speaker 2 learn more from you and about you and

Speaker 2 more about me through that.

Speaker 1 I think that's beautiful to look at parenting as,

Speaker 1 because I think we both used each other as teachers.

Speaker 1 And I think using everyone as a teacher is a masterful way to live, a really freeing way to live. And I know you and I both resonate with Gabor Mate's work.
And

Speaker 1 yeah, his, it's, you know, I want to read some of the things that he shares because what I'm hearing is that because he's a physician and a psychiatrist, which is such a powerful, I mean, his education, his mind is brilliant, his education backs it, and his experience.

Speaker 1 I also want to have him on the podcast.

Speaker 2 Oh, I hope so.

Speaker 1 And, you know, what he says is that there's not a lot of diseases that are only hereditary.

Speaker 1 There's some deeper psychological things that are playing in, and we've already kind of hinted to some of that.

Speaker 1 But he says that there are, I don't want to read these, four characteristics associated with chronic illness. So I want to read these because this is his work.

Speaker 1 And I think it's really, it's definitely motivated me to do more of my work around, you know, having healthy anger, healing over responsibility, checking with my needs.

Speaker 1 So the four that he says are the compulsive concern for the emotional needs of others.

Speaker 1 Two, a rigid compulsive identification with duty, role, or responsibility rather than or opposed to the needs of the self.

Speaker 1 Three, repression of anger, healthy anger.

Speaker 1 And four, the belief that you're responsible for how other people feel, coupled with the belief that you must never disobey anyone.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 to think about, like, that's actually what's creating, and that you were talking about when the body says no. Yeah.

Speaker 1 If it doesn't have an expression out, it can turn inward. And so

Speaker 1 if not just living a healthier, freer, open-hearted, open-minded, lighter life is not the

Speaker 1 carrot or the motivation than some of this research is. And I think sometimes suffering or disease has a motivation for us to look again to do some of the deeper work.
And I'm so honored and grateful.

Speaker 1 And I know we both love his work. And what I hear is

Speaker 1 some of the things that have really helped us. And I think, again, it was me doing my work with my story of you, the triggers I felt in my relationship with you.

Speaker 1 I want to really highlight that you didn't need to be different for me to find freedom. Yep.

Speaker 1 And I've tested that in other relationships.

Speaker 1 It is a gift that you were willing and have done your own work. And it's a benefit.
I benefit from it. So I'm so grateful, but I didn't need it.

Speaker 1 And so you doing your work, me doing my work, us doing our work, all of it added to it, but it didn't, it wasn't a need.

Speaker 1 And I really got to see where I thought I'd go back to specific memories where I was like, like, where I felt like I needed to be your backbone or I needed to support you, which was all, it was mine, self-imposed.

Speaker 1 I would go back and then I would look again without the story that I needed to do that or that I didn't see you as strong.

Speaker 1 And I saw your strength and I needed my little one to see your strength in that. memory and in that age stage.

Speaker 1 So I was like, oh, and I, and I remember doing this visualization where I saw like a cord of golden light and you tapped into your authentic self.

Speaker 1 You can call it your authentic self, your inner counselor, but just you tapped into your strength and radiance. Then I was, my little one was settled.
I was like, oh, then I don't need to do it.

Speaker 1 And I exhaled, and I was like, she's got her strength. So then I would forgive me.
I forgive myself for buying into the misunderstanding that I needed to be strong for her.

Speaker 1 The truth is, that's not my job. And she has her strength.
And I can see that now.

Speaker 1 So doing some of that work to see it and to let you have your experience, then I was able to settle a bit more and not feel like I needed to do it for you.

Speaker 1 And I think that my over-responsibility really rooted in childhood. And so I got to go back to those memories to look at that.

Speaker 1 But this is the true for any pattern people are looking at, whether it be around

Speaker 1 not having good boundaries, over-responsibility, people pleasing, anything.

Speaker 1 We go back to the original misunderstandings to look again, to question our misunderstandings, to see and hear what we needed then. then.

Speaker 1 In that memory, we offer it now, and it starts changing everything else in our current situation. Let's take out, I know people had questions on Instagram.

Speaker 1 So let's answer some of those for people, and then we'll talk more.

Speaker 1 So what was the first question people had asked?

Speaker 2 How do I not give my daughter a wound to begin with?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 my answer would be that we are never going to be perfect parents

Speaker 1 and your daughter is going to have wounds.

Speaker 1 And so I would rather support, and this is what we've done like as a conscious family, to support the kids in having the tools to move through things and equip them rather than trying to manage life or try to be perfect because it's never going to happen.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 challenges are going to come up, but how do you repair? It's more important how we repair than if a challenge comes up. And so,

Speaker 1 you know, I just want to encourage people to, I think the best thing we can do for our kids is our own work, to be an excellent.

Speaker 2 Definitely.

Speaker 1 I'm curious, what would you say to your younger self as a new mom now?

Speaker 1 Or if you were to go back to a memory when you were, because nobody gives us a manual about this.

Speaker 1 What would you say to yourself as a mom? What did she need to hear?

Speaker 2 Oh, what did she need to hear?

Speaker 1 Yeah, your younger self.

Speaker 2 I think that I already knew the answers. I knew how to be.

Speaker 1 I knew that children needed love, and i had that you told me that when i first became a mom i remember that and i'm a stepmama and you and i was like oh my god zero to three i've got three kids under three and it was just like

Speaker 1 a house and a dog and a cat and a cat and i was like this just you know and i was like i didn't have the nine months to prepare and you were like just love them yes just love them

Speaker 1 and everything else falls into place That's beautiful. Thank you for that.
That was really, I was like, okay, I got this. You know how to do that? I know how how to do that.
Yeah. Thank you for that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's all.

Speaker 2 And now, you know, hearing they need to be loved and accepted and listened to. And I mean, there's so much more, but loving is

Speaker 1 everything. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I also know that, you know, I feel like kids crave being seen, authentically being seen, not for what they do, how they behave, because behaving is good for the parents, but maybe conforming for the child.

Speaker 1 And I felt like when a child is seen soul to soul, and it just takes one person, it keeps something alive in them, and we can be that for ourselves now.

Speaker 1 We needed our parents then to do that, but we get to also go back and do that for those younger memories and parts that needed it then now. And it still matters.
Okay, the next question.

Speaker 2 Next question is.

Speaker 2 How to not get triggered every time my mom goes into her patterns example.

Speaker 2 She holds every mistake I've made against me and never stops trying to give me advice, et cetera.

Speaker 1 My experience is the more I focus on someone else and wanting them to be different rather than the pattern that's getting triggered inside of me, the further away I am from my healing.

Speaker 1 So if I'm stuck in blame, then I'm not actually going to look at what's being triggered inside of me and how do I actually heal that at the root. And so I find projection work to be really powerful

Speaker 1 around that.

Speaker 2 Good. Yeah.
How to overcome my resentment or being defensive around my mom.

Speaker 1 So I will say, I'm always talking trauma-informed. So, if there's big T-trauma, again, get a specialist, have somebody hold that space for you,

Speaker 1 but do the work. I promise you, it's so good.
And

Speaker 1 what that, you know, it's not time that heals, it's love.

Speaker 1 And so, having the space that's safe to authentically express the resentment, because resentment's anger, let it come up and out, and then bring love, bring forgiveness.

Speaker 1 That's the alchemy that transforms it.

Speaker 1 But you can't jump to forgiveness without authentically expressing the hurt. Otherwise, it's a bypass and it's not on a solid foundation.

Speaker 1 And so having that safe space to do that work and then the forgiveness, you change and the relationship changes. Your mom can still be the same.

Speaker 1 It's not about changing her, but your relationship with her will be different. And you might, you know, you might even say,

Speaker 1 yeah, I would just, I would, I would work with

Speaker 1 like offering myself the space to also have my humanity and let myself know that it's okay. I talk about toilet temples.

Speaker 1 Like at any moment you need a moment you need pause, you just go to the bathroom and you resource yourself. That's your toilet temple.
Like just take a moment.

Speaker 1 You can always use that excuse to be like.

Speaker 1 Okay. And I promise like do the more of the work and then it does get lighter.
It does get easier.

Speaker 1 Sometimes it's like, and don't do it with an agenda because it'll take like, it'll seem like it's taking forever, but just notice the progress.

Speaker 1 And sometimes when we don't think it's happening, it still is. It's just underneath the surface.
And then there's a moment that it clears. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. What would you say about that?

Speaker 2 I definitely do your trigger work. Anything that triggers you, it's not anybody else's issue.
It's your own. And you need to clear that and figure that out.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And if, like, if, if, if you weren't there for me, you weren't as present of a mom, I would let myself have my upset and my anger about that.
And then I would use you to teach me self-love.

Speaker 1 I would use you not being there to learn how to be there for the parts of me that need need it. I would, I would reparent myself rather than staying in a victim.

Speaker 1 I would really use it to say, how do I love those? Like, how do I use every, I don't know what should or shouldn't happen. What I do know is that it did happen.

Speaker 1 And how do I use everything for my growth, for my healing, for awakening? Yeah. That is an empowering way to live.
And so, yeah, that's my encouragement for people.

Speaker 1 And I also know that people are like, either I don't want to do this work with my mom. I'm not ready.
Or I just want to have more connection with her this Mother's Day.

Speaker 1 And I want to start with celebrations and deeper intimacy. I want to share three questions that they can ask their mom and kind of develop that.

Speaker 1 So the first question that I would say is, and you can both ask these. So I just wrote these down that I'll share.

Speaker 1 So first one is you can say, and I'll put these in the show notes on YouTube, but one memory I have of us where I felt so loved and connected was. And so I could share, you could share.

Speaker 1 And then you, you have a different question to create more intimacy. So for example,

Speaker 1 one memory where I felt so connected and loved by you is in 2019. I had, well, I'm just sharing one that comes up.

Speaker 1 I had an event here with a few hundred people and you volunteered to support at that. And at the end of it, I think either, I think we were sober, but I think we were punched drunk at the end.

Speaker 1 And I said something on an Instagram story and you corrected me because I usually say the thing wrong. I make up words, you know, my Alyssaisms.
Like, I'll make up a word if I don't know what it is.

Speaker 1 And I said something wrong and you corrected me and we were just laughing. No, it was in a state of diary.

Speaker 1 I need you to correct me.

Speaker 1 But we were just laughing on my peanut button, laughing so hard. I still have that video.
Yeah. And I, and it was, again, this new context of like who we are now and how much lightness there is.

Speaker 1 Lighter and laughter and fun.

Speaker 2 And yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1 So you guys could both answer that another question you can say is can you share a story this is probably more for a moment can you share a story from your past that shaped who you are today

Speaker 1 and then then you guys can share and then the third question is and both of you could answer this if you want but what's one memory where I saw your strength or one memory where I was really proud of you

Speaker 1 you want to share one I love learning yourself.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I love growing and getting lighter and laughing and having

Speaker 2 fun energy. It feels good to laugh and that that laughter story was really good.
I'm laughing a lot every day, every night and I'm loving my life.

Speaker 2 So that feels good.

Speaker 1 But a moment that you were proud of yourself or me?

Speaker 2 Proud of myself I just share, but of you it's like every moment that I see you grow and how present you are with people and how vulnerable you are and

Speaker 2 how you're helping so many people. And it's just

Speaker 2 so touching. People come up to me and say, oh, you're Alyssa's mom.
I say, I'm very proud of you.

Speaker 1 Thanks, mom. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
And I think that touches.

Speaker 2 40, 40 years of which moment do I pick? You know, just really beautiful.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Thank you for that and for being that mom.

Speaker 1 And I do, I also know that understanding more of our context supports us, both of us.

Speaker 1 I think understanding our family's history and the generational patterns that were passed down, both positive and negative, are important.

Speaker 1 So, one bonus question you could ask is, what do you think, when you think of your family growing up, what do you see as a gift that they had or a challenge that they faced?

Speaker 1 And when I was reflecting, some examples are gratitude. Like, I know, like, our family had a lot of, we have a lot of gratitude.
Like, you live in gratitude. It's really beautiful you model that.

Speaker 1 And also, just that family is really important. We prioritize connection.

Speaker 1 And, you know, so interesting. Well, we'll talk about our family and others having we all had a spiritual awakening at the same time

Speaker 1 without talking to each other about it. That's very rare.
So like those are some of the gifts. Or like thinking of your lineage, when I would say one of the challenges of your lineage would be

Speaker 1 cutting people off, no longer speaking to each other, you know? And I think that's the best way we've known how to process or create safety. But that is something to be aware of.

Speaker 1 That's like, yeah, you know, that's something that we could work on as a family.

Speaker 1 But knowing both gifts and the challenges.

Speaker 2 And reaching out can also be a no thank you. Yes.
And that's hard.

Speaker 1 And you have to honor that. Yeah, I do.

Speaker 1 If they're not ready or if they, and, you know, and us talking about this, sometimes the no thank you is the mother doing that to the daughter or the daughter doing that to mother.

Speaker 1 And so if it's ever not safe or you, it's destructive or for whatever reason it doesn't feel like you want to do this work with your family members that's okay

Speaker 1 and to create that safety for yourself but still my biased opinion is to do the work

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 1 so just in closing i just want to i want to highlight how beautiful it is to see you age oh thank you because there's such a cultural narrative about when you get older you go downhill or life doesn't isn't as vibrant and i want more examples and i want to highlight examples in my life where my experience is that you, your life keeps getting better.

Speaker 1 It does. Where you're rocking your long silver hair.
You met the, I've never seen you more in love in your life.

Speaker 1 Like, after this, we're gonna go shopping for your wedding dress because you're engaged, you're traveling the world. Like, you reconnected with your first crush at five years old.

Speaker 2 Well, it was more like 12.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Kindergarten, we met.

Speaker 1 Kindergarten met. First, we're 12-year-old crush, reconnected at a reunion,

Speaker 1 like bought

Speaker 1 your dream home, renovating it, like traveling the world, just living your best life. And I think it's important to see women rocking it in their later years.

Speaker 1 And I just want to acknowledge you because you're imprinting for me that life can still keep getting better. And why not? Yeah, yeah.
I love it.

Speaker 2 It is. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's beautiful. And you're radiating.
You're shining just talking about it. Like, I can see it on you.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I just want to say thank you for loving me. Thank you for being patient with me.
Thank you for doing the work on me. Thank you for creating safety.
Thank you for

Speaker 1 just being the mother that you are. And I am so grateful that I felt so, that we got to this point in our relationship.
I know that we really, I mean, it took years,

Speaker 1 but it was worth all of it. And I hope that this serves people in some way.

Speaker 1 And I'm just, I want more people to have this, whether, again, they're having that relationship with their mom or not. It affects every other relationship.

Speaker 1 So I love you. And I'm so giftified.

Speaker 2 Thanks, babe. I love you.

Speaker 1 I love you.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the world, starting with yourself. It truly does make a difference.

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Speaker 1 And make sure to have your automatic downloads turned on wherever you listen so you don't miss any of the upcoming episodes. I have so much magic.
I can't wait to share with you.

Speaker 1 And you can find all this information in the show notes below. But lastly, if you're on Instagram, I love connecting and hearing from you.
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Speaker 1 Thank you again for being here. I cannot wait to share more with you.