Creating Meaningful Connections with Sah D'Simone | EP 32

Speaker 1 We're so deeply debilitated by our distraction. It's so insatiable.
We don't want to feel what it's like to be in our bodies. We don't want to feel the discomfort that comes from being human.

Speaker 1 So, when we're talking about somatic tracking, we're bringing attention to the body. What we're asking you to do is to not engage with the stories.
They're hardwired with the feelings.

Speaker 1 Every feeling calls forth a story. It's a way for us to sort of create a self-feeling narrative, self-feeling prophecy for us to stay in a miserable state.

Speaker 1 This expensiveness of perspective, this widening of our lands leads us to see poetry, leads us to see beauty where it wasn't before.

Speaker 2 Welcome. I'm Alyssa Nobriga, your host of the Healing and Human Potential Podcast.
A place for you to discover the multi-dimensionality of what it means to be human.

Speaker 2 Over the past 20 years, I've trained thousands of coaches in my methodology, leveraging my experience as a former psychotherapist, and I'm here to share with you all the wisdom and insights that I've learned along the way.

Speaker 2 Each week, I'll share with you life-changing tools to support you in awakening and manifesting your dream life from the inside out.

Speaker 2 We'll be exploring the intersection between ancient wisdom and modern everyday life, really diving deep into the art of human potential through the lens of psychology, spirituality, and coaching.

Speaker 2 Let's let the magic unfold.

Speaker 2 As society continues to spend more time on our phones and different screens, distraction and loneliness are at an all-time high. And I don't think this is a coincidence.

Speaker 2 So today I'm sitting down with Saadi Simone to discuss this increasingly important topic. Sa is an author, a mystic, a healer, and a breath of fresh air.
You are going to love him.

Speaker 2 And he spent the last few years studying the science behind this epidemic, learning how we can make individual improvements in the hopes of a collective shift.

Speaker 2 Community and friendships are hugely important.

Speaker 2 So if you're struggling with loneliness or find yourself feeling increasingly disconnected or just looking for simple pointers around adult friendships, this episode was created for you.

Speaker 2 I am so happy that you're here and I know that you are such a stand for community and connection.

Speaker 2 And on our modern day life, there's a lot of distraction and like needing to fill this space, which is creating a lot of disconnection.

Speaker 2 And I know that in your new book, you've been doing a lot of research around loneliness.

Speaker 2 Can you share some of the current stats since the pandemic or what, where are we at as a culture around loneliness?

Speaker 1 First of all, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 And thanks for asking such a deep question to open the space for us to talk about the new book. So the research that I'm going to share with you is most recent research.

Speaker 1 Some of these stats have come from the pandemic and some of them have come from my personal work and training at the hospital as a chaplain.

Speaker 1 So one that's like the most alarming of all is that 60% of the young population in America report feeling seriously lonely yeah which is so eye-opening to think of

Speaker 1 and and then from there we go to two out of every five people in America report that their relationships are not meaningful so this is the general population all ages

Speaker 1 everyone

Speaker 1 two in five report their relationships are not meaningful so when you are at a dinner party with five people two out of those people let's let's kind of be reductionist for a second yeah don't feel connected to the rest of the people there, or don't feel connected enough to unburden their heart or to ask for help, yeah, you know, to say, Can you drive into chemotherapy, or can you let me borrow a thousand dollars for rent?

Speaker 1 Like all the things that a lot of people

Speaker 1 feel like they don't deserve, or they don't have the depth of connection to other people to ask these questions, yeah, when you are really in the darkest of the darkest places, which is so inevitable for us in the human experience, you know.

Speaker 1 And then let's go a little further. There's two other statistics, yeah.
Um, one

Speaker 1 One that is like so close to my heart is the

Speaker 1 suicide rates. You know, I've been experiencing suicidal ideation since I was 16.

Speaker 1 I haven't had it in maybe like five to ten years, but when he visits, it's really intense. It's really textured.

Speaker 1 It's very seductive as a way out.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because suicidality is really about wanting to end the suffering. It's like the best way that we thought at the time.
And it's an ideation, right?

Speaker 2 As a psychotherapist, people would say help move somebody through the ideation.

Speaker 2 Because if you can help move them through, then there's more success or more of a chance for them to not want to hurt themselves or kill themselves.

Speaker 1 And then there is even like something, this is a twisted look

Speaker 1 into suicidal ideation. It's

Speaker 1 what if the choice to end the suffering is an actual point of... of self-compassion, but it's twisted.
It's misinterpreted, you know, because you are choosing to alleviate your suffering, but

Speaker 1 you're choosing a strategy that

Speaker 1 potentially does more harm than good.

Speaker 1 And I want to bring something, some of this back up to a little later, because I do speak a lot about

Speaker 1 suicide radiation being a call for something to die, not your whole self, for a part of you,

Speaker 1 for a tendency, for a habit, for, you know,

Speaker 1 like something that you ruminate on, something that you latch on.

Speaker 1 These aspects of your biography are begging you to put them to the ground, to burn so it can be fertilizer for something new to be born.

Speaker 2 I think that's huge. I think I really want to highlight that because then it's not, there's nothing wrong with it.

Speaker 2 Here's the intention that something in me wants to die, or there's something that I want to end, but it doesn't mean my life, and that there is another way, and that I could have friendship and connection.

Speaker 2 You know, I'm a yes, and I'm a yes, and, and learning the tools to navigate our inner experience and have the deep conversations and creative ways to ask ask for our from our loved ones for support so learning how to be with the loneliness inside of me you know and a big part of you know i think i always say life's a mirror so most of our society if we feel lonely we've been conditioned to say let me get a partner or let me fill it from the outside versus how can i presence and be with the loneliness directly because if i abandon my loneliness i'm only going to feel more lonely in the world.

Speaker 2 Yes. So really doing that work when we have a trained specialist, especially if there's suicidality, to do that work with a safe space

Speaker 2 within ourselves, and then we can reach out for community, for connection, to feel loved and supported.

Speaker 1 I love what you're saying so much. And yes, and yeah, that's right.
There is something to be said about people who are reaching out for a partner, reaching out for all the things.

Speaker 1 But let's use the partner, for example.

Speaker 1 I do find that a lot of people will, some people will do that, but the

Speaker 1 the kind of depth that I'm bringing into the book is intimacy in connection people will have friends they will have partners but it's also superfluous they may be married or have a best friend for many years but they don't know shit about each other yeah you know it's this very atopical way of getting to know each other sometimes they they share more about the depth of their experience, more about their burdens, more about their deepest, darkest secrets to a therapist, someone that they're paying to listen,

Speaker 1 more so than they do to their best friend, more so than they do to their partner. They've been together for 10 years or two decades, whatever it may be.

Speaker 1 So, the exploration of relationship and loneliness in the book, it's very much about depth.

Speaker 1 It's about intimacy. It's not about helping people to just have a friend.
The book is not about making friends, it's about making a sacred friend.

Speaker 1 It's about really entering into that intimate space where all of it falls away. You know, as Rumi talks about, it's that plane where the right or wrongdoing

Speaker 1 disappear yeah you enter the field of non-duality you know it's no coincidence I have it tattooed on my finger for a reason because I'm I'm really committed to continuously being reminder reminded of this field that it exists that everything's a matter of perspective that's right you know that's right and for people that don't know the Rumi's field it's like beyond right and wrong there is a field I will meet you there and in that field is what is beyond the mind that is labeling and separating things it just is and that is the deepest connection and the depth.

Speaker 2 And I love that you bring people to that. I'm curious what you found in the book and in your research.
What are the barriers? Why are people not able to create that?

Speaker 1 I'm going to get there. Let me just tell you two stats first.
Okay. So

Speaker 1 suicidal radiation has been up by 30% in the last few years.

Speaker 2 Especially with teens, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, which is so insane. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And now let me go to the one that has just come into my life in the last eight to nine months.

Speaker 1 This statistic is not in the book because I had turned in the book before I started my training as a chaplain at Cedar Sinai.

Speaker 1 And this one is the one that to me feels also close to the suicidal radiation, so alarming because I'm constantly looking to,

Speaker 1 I have these visions of me being old and what does that look like. And I think for someone who has struggled with suicidal radiation, having visions of being old, it's such a nervous system soothe.

Speaker 1 It's such a relaxing thought. It's such a relaxing visual to see myself old and wrinkly and gray.
It's a very beautiful thought. And with that in mind, I looked at the research and it says that 40%

Speaker 1 of the elderly population in America reports that they have no social support. Social support is friends or contact with family.

Speaker 2 40%.

Speaker 2 Is elderly 65 and over?

Speaker 1 And above, yeah. Whoa.
Exactly. Now, think about this.

Speaker 1 This is a statistic, right?

Speaker 1 And I was like, and I brought that thought, that that number to the hospital yeah and i went around and i was like talking to different social workers and different people in the medical team and i was like hey guys do you think this statistic is right that's only 40 of the elderly population that comes into the hospital doesn't have social support they're like no it's more like 60 to 70 maybe we're up close to 80 percent of the elderly population has no social support.

Speaker 1 The only people who are there with them are the caretakers that they're paying. That for me is so mind-blowing.

Speaker 1 When people ask me, what is the hardest thing about caring for people who are sick and dying? I say it is hard. It is heartbreaking to be there.

Speaker 1 It is heartbreaking to hold the patient's hand who died while you're holding a link, holding the patient's hand and the daughter's, the daughter who's there in the mourning death of their mother. Yes.

Speaker 1 But what's more...

Speaker 1 what creates more suffering to me is realize that the daughter of

Speaker 1 that mother that just died doesn't have anybody else to be there with her except for me.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Except for me. And someone else who's going through a really challenging oncology journey has a room full of flowers, but there's not a body there.

Speaker 1 Someone is on the phone who just got off of surgery, they're on the phone, on speakerphone, call after call, but there's not a body there.

Speaker 1 This is what breaks my heart.

Speaker 1 It's the fact that people are not prioritizing, taking time out of their schedule of consumption and accumulation to be with another human being, forgetting the inevitability that pain will happen.

Speaker 1 We're all are, you know, we're all, sorry to sound so morbid and kind of, you know, nihilistic, but we're all doomed. We're all doomed to die.
Yeah. All of us will die.
It's inevitable.

Speaker 1 You know, it's inevitable. And we're not thinking of that.
Yeah. And because we're not thinking of that, we're not prioritizing connection.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 We are always putting it to the background, oh, tomorrow. I'll reach out to her tomorrow.
I'll come to your house to have tea. Now I'm going to come to your house to have tea.
You better.

Speaker 1 I wanted to connect with you. We've seen each other at parties a couple of times.
And I was like, wow, you're always so, there's always something so gentle about you.

Speaker 1 I like people with the sweetness and gentle of personality. Thank you.
Also, there's a spice to you, you know. I like paradoxical people.
Like, I love that.

Speaker 1 So, I was like, you know, I'm gonna do your show and I will get to dance a little bit.

Speaker 1 But this is me prioritizing, not only getting the mess with the book out there, but getting to spend time with you because it's someone that I want to nurture, it's someone that I want to be nurtured by.

Speaker 1 So, I think the biggest culprit of the world in regards to loneliness, it's we're prioritizing consumption, we're prioritizing feeling good in the moment.

Speaker 2 Doesn't mean hit. Yep.

Speaker 1 Exactly. And we're prioritizing accumulation.
Yeah. We want to accumulate, accumulate.
We want the accolades. We want the status.
We want the zip code. We want the car.

Speaker 1 We want the whatever it may be, the cheekbones, the lips, the boobs.

Speaker 1 Plug it in. We want to accumulate stuff in a way that can showcase to the world that we are.
Enough. Enough.

Speaker 2 That's right. And there's no way of getting against that ego trap.

Speaker 2 Either people need to dance their dance or they need to see through it and either run faster or have the courage and willingness to do the deeper work.

Speaker 1 Or have a cardiovascular disease and die with your

Speaker 1 mid-age

Speaker 1 crisis.

Speaker 1 Exactly. And so much regret.
And that's one thing that I do bring about in the book too.

Speaker 1 When I'm talking about grief and the work in the hospital, sometimes when a patient is dying, there's two things. Either I just meet them there and that's it.

Speaker 1 And I am the loving warmth presence in the room and that's all I have sometimes they ask me what do you do with someone in my position and I say look I can just be here with you like this and I can prompt you with some with some ways to relate to what you're experiencing a different way or

Speaker 1 If you want, we can do an unburdening practice. And they're like, what is that? Oh, cool.
You know? Oh, cool.

Speaker 1 And then I'm like, you know, we can, we can kind of go through the people in our sort of blacklist and we can do a forgiveness practice, forgiveness prayer, you know? Yes.

Speaker 1 And, you know, to be honest, a lot of people don't opt into that.

Speaker 1 They question. Tell me more.
Yeah. Tell me more.
Yeah, tell me more. They want to know about it.
Yeah, they want to know, but they don't want to know.

Speaker 2 One of my former best friends was a hospice nurse and she would say that the way you live is the way you die.

Speaker 1 We listened to her.

Speaker 2 And so just like hearing, you know, but at least giving people another choice and maybe even being by themselves in that room.

Speaker 2 And then you come in with this beautiful energy and invitation that might just be the very thing that supports them in doing the work. Who knows? So suffering has an intelligence to it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Say, I mean,

Speaker 1 suffering has an intelligence to it. Oh, my God.
That's some wisdom right there. Thank you.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So we use it. And so I'm curious, some of these barriers to connection.

Speaker 2 What have you found so far?

Speaker 1 Distraction. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like literally, I talk about the sort of a

Speaker 1 capitalistic trap of accumulation and consumption. And the one that I see the most

Speaker 1 is we're so deeply debilitated by our distraction. It's so insatiable.
We don't want to feel what it's like to be in our bodies. We don't want to feel the discomfort that comes from being human.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's painful to be human. Can we just accept it? Yeah, yeah, and just navigate the grief the same way that we navigate the joy.
Can we like literally learn that?

Speaker 1 That's like we don't have to only smile when it's sunny out there. Can we smile when it's raining? Can we smile when there's thunderstorms?

Speaker 1 Can we smile when we can't even get out of the house because there's so much snow?

Speaker 1 We are robbing each other of our full humanity because we only want to live in the sunshine. We only want to live and engage with happiness.

Speaker 1 You know, and it's so not the truth of being human. It comes with all full spectrum.
Day leads into night. Summer leads into fall into winter.

Speaker 2 Inhale, exhale, all of that.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 2 Yes. So there's the duality and then there's what's beyond it.
And, you know, I'm hearing you say distraction, which with social media, it's so easy to do that.

Speaker 1 I'm pointing to that.

Speaker 2 Uh-huh. I bet because this is, it's so easy to have that dopamine hit at the any moment we want it.

Speaker 2 And I think, and I love that you, I saw this in some of the research, you know, helping people see in the dark, helping people, I love that you said that. I'm like, bless you, Saul.

Speaker 2 Because so many people in our culture are avoiding feeling their feelings because they've never learned how to feel them. And so why don't we learn this in grade school?

Speaker 2 This is a big part of the podcast to help empower people to be like, I literally feel like I teach my coaches, here's a surfboard, here's how to ride your, the emotions to not get tumbled by them so that they can better navigate it, empower their clients to do it.

Speaker 2 And so I think if people understood that avoiding doesn't work, it makes it bigger, it postpones it, and you have to take it with you.

Speaker 2 So why not prioritize actually unpacking all of the rocks that you're holding in your backpack to live lighter and freer and more youthful, younger, like sooner? So I love that you are stand for this.

Speaker 2 And I read something you said, like good vibes only creates more loneliness. Yes.
Can you unpack that for us?

Speaker 1 It's technically this that we're just talking about. It's like good vibes only leads to loneliness because what happens if I bring you my grief and then what do you do?

Speaker 1 What's something that's so common that happens?

Speaker 1 Your mom's in a better place. My mom just died and people have the audacity to say these really

Speaker 1 unsettling, unnerving, hurtful things at the end. But it's all like with pure intention, you know? Okay.
Where they will do, they will say things like, your mother's in a better place.

Speaker 1 Trying to open it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, her suffering is over now.

Speaker 2 Trying to take it away from you. Exactly.
Instead of meeting you in it.

Speaker 1 Can you just meet me?

Speaker 1 Can we just be two people uncomfortable together? Yeah. Can you just hold a little bit of the grief with me? Yeah.
For as long as it takes?

Speaker 1 and we know the moment we sit with it what happens it normally naturally organically changes that's right the problem is we're not we're not patient enough with anything we're not patient enough with our feelings which is our utmost intimate relationship this is the main thing it's like our inability to just be patient with change yeah you know and i noticed this good vibes only thing so much because during the first few months On social media, yes, but also friends will say to me that I had higher hopes for your vocabulary you know they would say the most outrageous things why because they were uncomfortable they thought that if they fixed my feeling they would feel better that's right so we can both be feeling better but there's no feeling better without feeling that's right you know you got to be real to heal you got to feel it that's right 100

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Speaker 2 And so I am imagining people are like, well, what do I say to somebody that is grieving, you know, or, you know, in a, yeah, what do people say? Because I think.

Speaker 1 Say nothing. Sit there.
Just say, I'm sitting with you. I'm right here, shoulder to shoulder.

Speaker 1 Or instead of you sitting there, say, I'm going to make your chicken soup, go to their kitchen quietly and make the soup and come back.

Speaker 1 or you go to their bathroom you see that's a fucking mess clean their bathroom make the bed you know or don't say this is the one of the ones that i find the worst it's like i'm here for you whatever you need why don't you just go on your app and buy a gift basket of some ginger shots of some soup of some bone broth of some chocolate of some kombucha send it to their house with a little card thinking of you you're not alone in your pain you are not alone in your pain say that yeah no thinking of uh i'm here for whatever you need thoughts and prayers please don't do any of that all of this for the for the one who is mourning it's hurtful it's awful because you are literally making it uh making it something that they shouldn't be in it yeah but it's something that's inevitable for all of us to feel you know and the more we postpone it the greater that barrier builds and then we're gonna have to face it at some point so i'm a big fan of digesting some of the energy so stretching the capacity to just be with it yes Yes.

Speaker 2 So right now, one of my practices with all the eclipses happening and all the different energy, I am just,

Speaker 2 my intention is to pause before I want to react, to sit with the sensation that feels like I want to act, but just to breathe, just to be with it, and then let it integrate into my nervous system before responding or move.

Speaker 2 I know dance is a big part of your healing methodology, which is so fun and playful. And I am a big fan of somatic work as well.
I got licensed as a clinical somatic psychotherapist.

Speaker 2 I love moving it through the body. And we should dance together, by the way.
That would be so good. That's a good girl.

Speaker 1 You know.

Speaker 2 So good. But tell us some of the practices to kind of digest that energy so we can actually start.
We don't have to have that damn build up.

Speaker 2 We can feel freer.

Speaker 1 Because it's building. It is.
It's building.

Speaker 1 And it's, if we're going to use this sort of a funny little joke in America, it's like you have a U-Haul truck attached to you and it's filled with shit, you know?

Speaker 1 So one thing that I think people underestimate is the power of using your hand to put in the body where you feel the feeling. Where in the body is it feeling alive? Is it in your chest?

Speaker 1 Is it in your stomach? Is it towards the left of your body? Is it in your throats? It's in the back of your head. Where is it? Yeah.
So we start with the hand.

Speaker 1 The warmth of the hand and your tension with the hand will start to move the energy that we call tension, that we call emotion, that we call feeling. Simple.

Speaker 1 As you move through that, the next stage is for you to do it with eyes closed without the hand.

Speaker 1 I could travel, like right now I'm looking at you, but I'm bringing my attention to the place in my body where I feel a little bit of buzzing tension.

Speaker 1 Right there. Left side of my corn.
I feel a little bit of tension there.

Speaker 1 You know? This is what we arrive at, is to be able to feel our feelings. as we are living our lives and to be able to name what we feel when we feel in context of with other other people.

Speaker 1 So often we are blaming somebody else for how we feel in our bodies. We're not taking responsibility for what's going on here.
But I want to trace the feeling thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 The feeling tone, the experience of feeling the need for connection, which is something that I open in a book about, which is something I was blown away about the research.

Speaker 1 And I want to talk about this and I want to talk about all the things.

Speaker 1 We'll go there. But I want to talk about the

Speaker 1 feeling for connection, the need for intimacy, the need for friendship, for deep bonds it's something that i didn't know it's scientifically proven that we are required to have friendship the same way that we are required to eat get access to sun

Speaker 1 water sleep some of the biological basic needs friendship is one i didn't know i thought that was just like a psychosomatic spiritual tool for regulating ourselves into feeling better but it's actually a vital nutrient for the well-being of our bodies for the relaxation of our minds, for the openness of our heart, is connection.

Speaker 1 And I was like, oh my goodness, why are we not teaching this? Why are our kids not being trained in this?

Speaker 1 Why are we allowing social media and technology to rob our society from connecting with each other? This is the part that I'm like, wait, this is so, to me, mind-blowing.

Speaker 1 So when we experience the need for connection, which strikes in a body the same way as a cue for hunger. Listen to these words.
These are not my words.

Speaker 1 This is scientific evidence that we have in the book. When you feel the need for friendship, what do you often do? Not you, because I know you got your shit together.

Speaker 1 But the listener, what do you often do? Masturbate, drink, smoke a cigarette,

Speaker 1 social media,

Speaker 1 watch another show on Netflix, exactly, shop. You know, what do you do? Eat the sugar, whatever it is, no shame in the game.
You're speaking to someone who's done it all, girl.

Speaker 1 Never forget, I smoked crack when I was 14 years old.

Speaker 1 So I know my way around distraction i know what it's like to feel like being in an aspat is an unbearable experience so i need to do anything i can to distract myself from being here now in the premises of where we're at in the world we cannot keep going without friends without intimacy so when you feel the need for connection don't think of it as like oh you're so needy you're weak you're not independent enough you're not self-reliant enough all these independent self-reliant these are all tools from a toxic uh tools no i should say um symptoms is better language better words symptoms of a toxic capitalistic society capitalism has good things yeah but there is a toxic quality to it which is what is exacerbating this isolation that we're in.

Speaker 1 Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 That makes perfect sense. Yeah.
And I love that you were sharing some ways to start dropping in to feel the connection that we're longing for.

Speaker 2 And when you say to put it on your hand on that part of your body, I know, and I'll just give some words to what your brilliance is, is that it will help hold the attention.

Speaker 2 If your mind is really racing, feeling it, maybe the heat or the pressure starts bringing your attention into it.

Speaker 2 And then also then you're saying the next step is to let go of the hand and just still feel what's there.

Speaker 2 Because then we're dropping the sensations deeper into the body rather than the mind, which is where

Speaker 2 the problems are created.

Speaker 2 And so feeling it in the body to let it start moving through. And I know that most of like the heavy stuff happens in the throat, the heart, and the deepest stuff is really the gut.

Speaker 2 And, you know, in some ways it's safer to feel in our arms and hands.

Speaker 2 Wherever it is, it's good to start doing some somatic tracking because if you are in your body, then nothing else can get in there. And so not picking up different energetics.

Speaker 2 So really learning that this is a safe place. And I think the more that people feel safe, the easier it is to embody.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. And thanks for naming that too.
And

Speaker 1 I want to add something to that too.

Speaker 1 Our awareness has a quality of warmth.

Speaker 1 When we have anything facing warmth, what happens? It changes. It transforms.
It softens, you know? So think about the big ball of anger in your belly as like compost.

Speaker 1 You bring a little bit of heat to a pile of compost. Now you have the greatest fertilizer.
Now you're sprinkling the garden of your inner world with the greatest fertilizer.

Speaker 1 So you can, whatever seed you decide to plant, as soon as that emotion passes through you and out of you, it is going to be grown in a beautiful new ground in ways that you never even thought possible.

Speaker 1 You know, so keeping that in mind, like no feelings too big that can hurt you. Yes.
And the quality of your awareness has warmth. We know what it's like to be seen by somebody who's really seeing you.

Speaker 1 It's the same thing you're offering yourself.

Speaker 1 You're offering to your feelings, you're offering to your emotions, you offer it to your sensations you know yeah and and arrive at a point where you can be with them for what they are a passing sensation in the body without the need to say these feelings are good these feelings are bad that go beyond the dualistic approach to our inner world yeah arrive at a point where you're no longer holding on to the good feelings and pushing away the bad feelings because that's no way to live you know it just recycles it exactly yeah and people ask me so what do you teach i'm like i teach freedom i don't teach happiness because i don't think it's about being happy i think it's about being open yeah and freedom comes with this openness so we can hang with the grief and the gratitude with the despair and the inspiration it's it's a constant state of paradox yeah that's what being in a human body is and the paradox is ironically when we feel the thing that we're uncomfortable with we ironically then feel comfortable right It's like, if I feel the thing that is painful, it actually leads me to what is pleasurable.

Speaker 2 It's the last place that we'd be willing to look, opens us to what we deeply desire.

Speaker 2 And so I want to just give a context to this because if somebody is feeling suicidal or really has big T trauma, it's really important to work with a trained specialist when you're doing this work.

Speaker 2 Because if you go outside the window of tolerance,

Speaker 2 that can lead to more dysregulation. So it's just good that people, you know, find a trauma specialist, a licensed psychotherapist.
I teach a lot of coaches.

Speaker 2 And so this type, that type of like traumatic work is not good for coaches. Coaches is more about performance-based.
So I I just want to give people context. It is life-changing work.

Speaker 2 It is so powerful, so important, especially given the current state of where teens, elders, most of our society is. A lot of this research was in America, you said?

Speaker 1 Yeah, all in America. Yeah.
Unfortunately.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and you know, that may also just be a reflection of, you know, and I think we can keep learning from other cultures.

Speaker 2 And, but I makes me, so I want to just leave that as like a caveat for people. It is worth your time and energy.
It does not have to be hard.

Speaker 2 You can learn to surf the waves and get really good at it so you don't get tumbled.

Speaker 2 And, you know, having places, like having books, having resources, having community, you can drop into other people's communities too to

Speaker 2 be available for people that have intimacy within themselves and to feel safe, you know, to nurture new friendships and learn the tools for ourselves.

Speaker 2 And so share with us, I know we did the somatic tracking. Share with us if there's like another

Speaker 2 tool that you have found powerful or that you want to gift to somebody.

Speaker 1 I mean, yes, thank you my love the somatic tracking is game changer I want to name this because I had spent about five years in my path in my spiritual path I had been to India

Speaker 1 about 10 years ago to the date it was 10 years ago in March so it was 2024

Speaker 1 excuse me 2014 yeah March 2014 but I want to name the the tool and I want to bring it back to my own experience I had spent five years of my journey doing everything I could to distract myself from feeling.

Speaker 1 And they were very holy practices. I was meditating on the feeling of the breath.
I was meditating as myself as the deity. I was chanting the mantra.
I was running. I was eating a vegan diet.

Speaker 1 You know, I was,

Speaker 1 you know, get working on my sobriety. I was doing all the holy things.
Yeah. Anything I could to run away from feeling.
And then it was one morning I was living in Brooklyn in Bushwick and I...

Speaker 1 the feeling came, the same old feeling, the same old friend, shame.

Speaker 1 left side of the belly boom pulsing dull pain hot

Speaker 1 it's just there this if it has like a it has like an energy of like a creature that wants to like come out yeah and the stories wired with that feeling were you suck you're a bad person you shouldn't be here why don't you end this these were some of the daily stories that went with it and then this morning i said you know what i'm gonna do the thing that i've read in Buddhist scriptures.

Speaker 1 I'm going to sit with the feeling and I'm gonna let go of the story. I'm gonna literally bring my attention to the body and I'm gonna disentangle myself from the story.

Speaker 1 So, when we're talking about somatic tracking, we're bringing attention to the body. What we're asking you to do is to not engage with the stories.
They're hardwired with the feelings.

Speaker 1 Every feeling calls forth a story. That's right.
And when we engage with the story, for us, it's a way to like,

Speaker 1 it literally intensifies the feeling, and calls for more new feelings and it's a way for us to sort of create a self-feeling narrative self-feeling prophecy for us to stay in a miserable state it's also a distraction from feeling it we keep thinking about it rather than feeling it exactly yeah so in that moment i said i'm not gonna leave the house until i touch the feeling at least touch the feeling so i brought my awareness to the place in my body right there and i just remember as soon as i as soon as i touched it the stories got more and more intense and i just kept i just kept disentangling myself from the stories and placing it on the feeling.

Speaker 1 And slowly, slowly, it was literally like I said earlier, like a creature started to move through my body, through the back of my neck, and out to the crown of my head.

Speaker 1 Not feeling, not, and I'm not saying that it's always this, like, kind of this kind of snake-like feeling when I'm just walking at Whole Foods and I feel a big feeling, no, or I'm sitting here and I feel a big feeling.

Speaker 1 It's not the experience, it's because it was the first time I felt my feelings.

Speaker 1 So, I remember that as a historical,

Speaker 1 monumental place for me in my healing journey.

Speaker 1 So tracking, somatic tracking and the mantra that we work with in the book, which is so talked about in Pema Chodron's work and so talked about in Buddhist

Speaker 1 teachings and Buddhist psychology, it's very much about let go of the stories and deal with the feelings. That's right.
Literally, just that simplicity of that.

Speaker 1 Whenever you feel a big feeling in the body,

Speaker 1 or or actually oftentimes we are not even aware of the body, we're so disconnected from the soul, so disconnected from the body.

Speaker 1 A good way to know if there's a big feeling in the body that you're not tending to, look at the quality of your mind.

Speaker 1 Can you see poetry around you? Can you still feel the sun kissing your skin? Can you still feel, look and experience the leaves dancing in the wind? Can you still experience people's humanities?

Speaker 1 Can you still see beauty and other people?

Speaker 1 If you don't have access to any of this wide, beautiful perspective, there's something in your body that's calling you to love, that's calling you to breathe, that's calling you to a deeper presence.

Speaker 1 And the moment you touch that and you be with it without the stories, look around again to that same place that you were like, oh, this place is ugly, these people suck. Look around there again.

Speaker 1 I guarantee you that beauty will be surrounding you. Because that's what happens

Speaker 1 as soon as you process a big feeling. That's right.
You know, this expansiveness of perspective, this widening of our lens leads leads us to see poetry, leads us to see beauty where it wasn't before.

Speaker 1 So when you talk about a tool, this is like the number one of all. And obviously,

Speaker 1 in my work with the somatic activated healing, which is the dance practice, you know, that it's changed my life.

Speaker 1 So really, dancing on its own is wonderful.

Speaker 1 It's entertaining. It's fun.
It boosts all these great neurochemicals. It does all, it does amazing.
However, if you dance with somatic awareness,

Speaker 1 then it's not only fun, honey, but it's deeply cathartic. It's deeply healing.

Speaker 1 You are literally unburdening yourself of all the emotions that have been residing in your body.

Speaker 1 So every twist, every turn, every stretch, everything you do on that floor, it's the past dancing itself through you and out of you. So

Speaker 1 there's a safe space for the past to express itself. There's a

Speaker 1 safe place for the anger, the rejection, the grief, the insecurities, the shame, the hopelessness, all the stuff that we're like, ugh, I don't want to talk about that.

Speaker 1 I don't want that to come up ever. It's in that, there's a safe place for it all to be expressed, you know.

Speaker 2 And you are so self-aware that you can track. And I want to highlight some of the things that you said to help people make sure that they hear it.

Speaker 2 Because there's, when you feel into a sensation, there are a lot of thoughts that go with it. So what I heard you say is,

Speaker 2 if you're not tuned into your body, because that's not a habit, you know, put a rock in your shoe and start to like drop your awareness down.

Speaker 2 But you can also just check the quality of your mind. You don't trust your mind when it's in a dysregulated state because it's just going to find all the problems.

Speaker 2 So if you're not watching poetry on your movie of your scene, it just means that there's some part inside that's looking for tending to.

Speaker 2 And you want to breathe into that part without a story, which is key. It is so important.
And to give people hope that maybe they're in the beginning of going in.

Speaker 2 And I always say there's three stages of awareness. There's being essentially unaware or not aware.
The second stage is, oh my God, all I have is problems.

Speaker 2 And that's oftentimes because it's been built up. So there is a phase of like clearing out the dam.

Speaker 2 And then the third stage, and keep going, because usually in the second stage, people are like, oh my God, it was better when I, you know, it was better when I was naive.

Speaker 2 And so I want to go back to being naive.

Speaker 2 But keep going because the third stage is there being either integration or space between you and the sensation, you and the story, so that you can wake up beyond it.

Speaker 2 And so I imagine, because I know this work and I know you, starting to presence and feel that energy in your core started to integrate. It started to lighten it.
Is that right?

Speaker 1 100%. And the next time shame came to visit,

Speaker 1 which naturally it will. Yeah.
And at some point, they won't visit you so often. Yes.
You know, which is so beautiful.

Speaker 1 Because what happens is we, when we feel a big feeling in our bodies like shame and we have those stories, we tend to do self-destructive things, you know yeah and if we do self-destructive things what happens more shame comes so when we remove the self-destructive mechanisms because we felt the shame without the stories we weren't propelled or there was no there was no catapult to the self-destructive things of like um overeating over smoking or whatever plug in your distractive tool um

Speaker 1 you're not you know the quality of your current state is based on the quality of your previous actions right the law of cause and effect also known as karma, the way we feel right now is based on what has what's come before us.

Speaker 1 And some of the stuff we have to be honest, we have to look because the shame that I felt, it's important to name, it didn't start with me. That's right.
It did not start with me.

Speaker 1 You know, I did a TEDx talk that that's really named around that.

Speaker 1 It didn't start with me because the way I feel in my body and perhaps the way a lot of the listeners maybe are feeling right now didn't start with you.

Speaker 1 So in the book, we do look at the importance of knowing that the esoteric data talks about previous lives. The scientific data talks about trauma lingering through chemistry.

Speaker 1 So everyone in your lineage, the abused and the abuser, say what

Speaker 2 exactly.

Speaker 1 The abuse and the abuser, all in our lineage, we all have these as family members, are all living inside of us.

Speaker 1 Same thing if we look at esoteric data, natural law of karma, we can see that maybe previous iterations of us, previous versions of you, previous versions of I have done things that created harmful consequences.

Speaker 1 So we don't show up earthside with a blank slate.

Speaker 1 I think when you realize that, and I know it goes against some of the biggest mystical traditions in the world, but to me, it felt such a relief to be able to say, wow.

Speaker 1 I,

Speaker 1 the way I'm feeling, the way I'm relating to the world didn't start with me. I exacerbated and I made it, you know,

Speaker 1 I cemented it by following up, by engaging with it, by reacting to it.

Speaker 1 But it didn't start with me. The feeling that there's something

Speaker 1 fundamentally bad or broken or

Speaker 1 deficient about who I am, it's not something that I have created independently from my own side alone. It's not self-existing independently of everything else and everyone else.

Speaker 1 It's such a

Speaker 1 to me.

Speaker 2 Yeah, really, for sure. And I think it's important to do some of of the work around lineage so we understand the context from which we are born into.

Speaker 2 Not only like, how was your mom experiencing when she was, when you were in the womb, like there's so much around recent, it used to be up until age seven, so much is set in our subconscious.

Speaker 2 But it's really, from what I'm hearing, and it's, I don't, can't verify right now, but from what I'm hearing, it's womb up to three years old.

Speaker 2 And so, and, and things can go so much further, epigenetics. And I just want to name if people are self-harming in some way,

Speaker 2 I want to offer a compassionate lens because that's the best way you've known how to take care of yourself.

Speaker 2 So it's like instead of saying, oh my God, I am addicted and all these things, because that's the mind. It's not even you.
That's the mind trying to wrong you so that you change.

Speaker 2 And if the best ways that we've learned is to hurt ourselves in these addictive or distracting ways, it's like, okay, so I'm listening to a podcast like this so I can start looking at things in a different way.

Speaker 2 So finding, just like you said with suicidality, it's like, this is is how I'm trying to stop the pain.

Speaker 2 This isn't another story that I use to shame myself because the moment you can see that, you can have compassion for the critic.

Speaker 2 The critic is looking for compassion.

Speaker 2 So just offering ourselves that compassion can get us out of the right-wrong dualistic narrative. We see from a higher non-dual perspective to say, what, this is what is.

Speaker 2 And how can I change my life from here? How can I offer myself compassion? The other thing I want to mention is not having an agenda with this work.

Speaker 2 So not having an agenda, because these parts of ourselves, this energy can feel if we're trying to love it so that it leaves, because that's not real love.

Speaker 2 And so if we can really bring acceptance to them, they settle, just like you said with a friend. You're not going to be like, you're grieving.
I'm going to try and take it away.

Speaker 2 I'm going to get you something so you stop. It's like really sitting with ourselves and our...
friends in the pain with an open heart, with full acceptance.

Speaker 1 You brought something so beautiful to the table, which I love. I want to name this too.

Speaker 1 With self-destructive tendencies, we have to realize it is a self-destructive tendency, but it didn't start with you.

Speaker 1 No one starts self-harming from their side, independently of everything else and everyone else.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we're not born with it.

Speaker 1 Exactly. And then here's the thing.

Speaker 1 We start harming ourselves as a symptom of something that was broken in relationship. So what's broken in relationship has to be healed in community.
This is the foundation of the book.

Speaker 1 This is the backbone of this new book is reminding ourselves that none of the ways we think, feel, respond are things that were, you know, self-existing from our own sides.

Speaker 1 Everything we think and feel and do, it's all relational. Even the Buddha's enlightenment was relational.
You know, like we have to reflect on that. That it was,

Speaker 1 that it may seem like this isolated, independent experience, but it wasn't. You know, when the demons came to visit him at the night of his enlightenment, what did he say? How do you know you're free?

Speaker 1 He says, Mother nature is my witness. That.
We can't forget that. And I think a lot of Western Buddhists practicing within a pure lineage, within a,

Speaker 1 within the context of more tradition, right? Let's use that.

Speaker 1 I don't like the word pure lineage either, but just more traditional approach, which I'm such a non-traditional person, but behind closed doors, you know, she's very orthodox. I'm very traditional.

Speaker 1 Like, I follow a lineage. I follow a guru.
I go to the place. I go to the monastery.
I go to the cave. You know, do the things.
I have the ritual, like all the things. So it's important.

Speaker 2 And those are helpful too.

Speaker 2 Those practices, those rituals yeah yeah because I can even see some people that are further along in their journey judging themselves for being like I do these very regimented things and those are actually really helpful too there may be a stage that it just that drops but the you know to because so I can hear somebody saying well I changed my addiction for you know shopping to meditating or for great inner work it's an upgrade yeah so just

Speaker 1 compassion compassion compassion and I'm the same boat yeah I have only been able to achieve the crazy things that I've been able to achieve.

Speaker 1 And not to talk about achievement or accolades, but because I shifted my OCD and my addictive, compulsive behavior towards liberation. I am seeking to become free.

Speaker 1 That's the goal of my life. That's the purpose of my day.
That's the purpose of every moment. That's the purpose of every single breath.

Speaker 1 How free can I get? It isn't about being high anymore, as Ram Das would say so beautifully. Are you want to get high? You want to get free? Yeah.

Speaker 1 because it's a different road yeah you know they all lead home but one of them will take you a long way around the mountain over and over but there's one that's a stray shot yeah the straight shooter liberation, freedom.

Speaker 1 That's what I'm seeking, you know? So I want to remind people that like we can't try to do the psychosomatic spiritual work by ourselves and you have to.

Speaker 1 50% of the equation of liberation is that. Sit down in a meditation question in the morning and have a forgiveness practice between you and your story, you and your past.
Wonderful.

Speaker 1 Do a somatic tracking. Beautiful now.
You want to see if your somatic tracking and your forgiveness is actually working.

Speaker 1 Can you track your feeling in your body when you're relating to your mother-in-law? Can you track the feeling in your body when you are at the coffee shop?

Speaker 1 Can you trace the feeling in your body when you are feeding your whatever it may be?

Speaker 1 Whatever people you're engaging, plug in the annoying person for you in your life this is when the somatic tracking the somatic realization has become actualized this is when the realization changes you and you're forever changed that's the thing that I that happened to me in Brooklyn that day when I had the experience of feeling the feeling up and out of me every single every single no I shouldn't say that maybe like seven out of every 10 feelings you know yeah uh or maybe I should say maybe six or five out of every feeling that I have

Speaker 1 five out of ten you know So half of the time, I'm radically aware.

Speaker 1 I can be driving and tracking. I can be washing dishes and tracking.
I can be showering and tracking. I can be taking a shit and tracking what's going on in my body, my emotional body.

Speaker 1 This is the work. Now, can I do this behind closed doors? Good girl, wonderful.
Now, can you do this out on the world?

Speaker 1 This is the work where the liberation becomes no longer just between you and you and something that's kind of intellectual, but something that's embodied. That's right.

Speaker 2 It, you know, a big reason why I moved from therapy to coaching, and I liked transformation and practical, so spiritual and practical. To me, a real healing is a change of behavior.

Speaker 2 And I know you say, test your materials, which is the same thing. It's like, how do we,

Speaker 2 we had this healing, and how do we live it? What's different in our lives now? Yeah. And I jam on this all day with you.
I just want to ask you, because I know.

Speaker 1 Can we still, can we, can we, just for a second, you said something that just came up to me. It's like, pay attention to how you're living.

Speaker 1 Are you avoiding people places and experiences because they trigger you yes they are are you doing everything you can to protect your peace because if you're protecting your peace i'm so sorry my darling but you will create a lonely life yeah because even the your best friends your partner your community Everyone that you deem as beautiful and I love them, they will go off the scripts that you wrote for them in your mind.

Speaker 1 They will not say the line you wrote for them in your mind, when you want them to say and how you want them to say.

Speaker 1 The nice people will become mean and unkind it's natural that everything changes this is why you have to bring the forgiveness that happened in the bedroom in the protection of your glass tower of your home to the street to the friends to everyone that's where the rubber hits the road and that's when it's integrated and really lived yeah and i think you know triggers our teachers so i think that

Speaker 2 I used to want to protect my kids or my clients from being triggered. And then I got triggered.
I remembered. I'm like, oh damn, this is a huge opportunity to get free.

Speaker 2 Let me actually allow this fully because real freedom is in saying yes to everything, not avoiding and living in a monastery. I was the same with you.

Speaker 2 I'm like, I wanted to live in Bali, which I love Bali, but I could feel there was a part of me that was a cop-out because this was like my Disneyland. This was like my ultimate wellness space.

Speaker 2 And I will still go and love that. But for me, PhD version is living in LA and living a true and deep life with my heart and my mind open.

Speaker 1 Shit, girl. I feel like this is the thing I needed to love you more because it's so true.
That was the exact feeling I had in Bali. I was like,

Speaker 1 I can't do this long term. It's like people don't really care about other people.

Speaker 1 And I'm being a generalist now and I'm being an essentialist, which is not my style really, but just to, just in the space of us talking about this, I was like, wait. It's so much, it's so hedonistic.

Speaker 1 It's so much about holding on to feeling good. It's so much about holding on to pleasure.
It's so much about keeping the pleasure going.

Speaker 1 So one one thing to the next, to the next, and Bali offers you that. But I was like, hey, this ain't for me, honey.
Like, uh-uh, I can't. I'm not real.
Yeah, like, I'm just not into it.

Speaker 1 You know, there was a season that I really loved running away from my body and into distractions, into pleasure constantly. But

Speaker 2 there's a place. There's a place for like a pause and to be nourished and all of that.
But just

Speaker 2 being honest with ourselves, when it's, when it's used as a distraction and when it's, when it's just genuinely a time off or just to enjoy your pleasure.

Speaker 2 I want to hear in the book, you talk about the spiritually we equation. Yeah.
What is this?

Speaker 1 So it's kind of like what I started talking about. Okay.
So 50% of the work has to be done between you and your story. Yes.
You and your body, you and your heart.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Like rupture in a relationship needs to be healed in the relationship kind of thing.

Speaker 1 Yes, but let me get to it. Let me get to that.
Let's say you had a rupture in a relationship, right? And you say, I need some time.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 you don't engage back for now.

Speaker 1 Let's say you're doing something really advanced now and you say, okay, I'm losing the plot. I'm now seeing you as a bad person.
I'm now feeling like a bad person. Pause.

Speaker 1 This one, you say your secret word, pineapple, and you guys both go away, or you say, pineapple, I gotta go. Okay.

Speaker 1 You check out of the room and you go to your bedroom, or you go, you go to your closet, you go to your little meditation den.

Speaker 1 And in that moment, you go inside of yourself and you are able to be with the anger.

Speaker 1 And you can actually realize that the anger was already inside of you, that your partner doesn't have that kind of power to place the anger inside of you.

Speaker 1 So you're able to be like, oh, this anger, this huge anger, it has to be historical because it doesn't match the context of my reality.

Speaker 1 My partner showed up five minutes late and I am a rage monster.

Speaker 1 Wow. Okay, so if my emotions don't match the context of reality, there's something that is asking for my love, something that's asking for my care.
So this is important.

Speaker 1 Are we overreacting or underreacting? When mom dies, do we numb and we're like, I'm fine.

Speaker 1 Or when we get a promotion or we get to go on a big trip, I'm fine, you know? Or a small thing happens and the rage dragon comes out. Overreaction, underreaction.

Speaker 1 Those are all sort of a, I'm going to use a word that comes that comes very loaded, but for the context of the book, in the context of what I teach, it's hysterical.

Speaker 1 You know, this word has been used to weaponize women anyways, but the point point of it in AA,

Speaker 1 the grand, beautiful mantra of AA, if it's hysterical, it's historical.

Speaker 1 That is something that I bring about in the book because when we are relating to other people, we really get to know what is hysterical about us, points us to what's historical about us.

Speaker 1 So when you remove yourself, because you said pineapple, and you went to the bedroom, you're like, wow, this anger is so huge, does not match the context of reality.

Speaker 1 This anger does not match what just happened between me and my partner. Okay, cool.
Let me be with the anger. And you're just able to track it.
And slowly, slowly, the anger passes.

Speaker 1 You're soft in your face and you're able to go to your partner and say, hey, I'm so sorry I overreacted. That was like out of context.
My bad. I'm working on this anger.

Speaker 1 I know this anger didn't start with me. I know this anger predates me perhaps.
So let me work on it. Wonderful, cool.

Speaker 1 So that is where you have tracked, done the self-revelation work, able to breathe with it and be with it.

Speaker 1 Now, outside of the friendship with outside of the relationship to the husband when you see somebody when you experience a triggering experience out there can you relate to it in a different way yeah can the experience that will normally lead you to a hysterical state bring you into presence this is when you know that the work is working so 50 of the work has to be done between you and you so you pressing your pineapple button going away and then having that change that transformation the so the shoulders soften the chin becomes parallel to the the ground, the eye gaze softens, the breath deepens, all the beautiful things that happen physiologically.

Speaker 1 And now test the material.

Speaker 1 The 50% of the equation is that is to test the material. That's right.

Speaker 2 And I love how you have them do it inside and then out. That is the only way that it happens.
Yes. There's just so many gems in this book.

Speaker 2 I just want to say thank you for coming on and being so vulnerable and real. I love your spiciness and your flavor and your depth.

Speaker 2 And I know this book, I know that you are so proud of this and that I'm hearing all of the gems and wisdom. Where can people find it? How do they get their hands on it?

Speaker 1 Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1 Everywhere, every books are sold. But to be honest, go to Amazon.
Go to Amazon. Leave a review.
That's it. Or anywhere that you buy the book, leave a review.

Speaker 2 It's like the more people that do the work, I know one of your missions is to do it individually so it can support a collective shift. And I'm a stand for you in this work.

Speaker 2 So I just want to encourage people to, yes, keep reading, keep diving into the book, getting to communities, have these deeper conversations. Thank you, Saul, for who you are.
What a gift.

Speaker 2 Thank you for sharing all your wisdom here.

Speaker 1 Thank you, my love. Remember, community is the cure.
You know, at the end of the day, when you are lying there lifeless at your last,

Speaker 1 you're dead. Yeah.
You know, and people are coming to your funeral. What would your eulogy sound?

Speaker 1 You know, who's filling up the room?

Speaker 1 You know, something I learned really beautifully, something aspirational. It's my mom's funeral.
Really showed me this is what I want my funeral to be. A place where people are

Speaker 1 reciting stories, singing songs about her and about how she lived. And it was one person after the next sharing these beautiful points of contact that they had with my mom.

Speaker 1 Your mom helped me in this thing. She did that thing.
She showed up in this way. She was so loving.

Speaker 1 All of this.

Speaker 1 At the end of the day,

Speaker 1 when it all comes to an end, which is inevitable, going to happen to all of us, how do we want those last few days, the last few months, and that last moment to sound like, to feel like, you know, community is what's going to get you through the other side, you know?

Speaker 1 Yeah. And after doing this work in the hospital,

Speaker 1 my

Speaker 1 discipline and my

Speaker 1 effort to friendship has already been wonderful. That's why I felt qualified to write this book.
But it's intensified to another level. Yeah, because there is nothing like carrying your pain alone.

Speaker 1 It's really hard, and you don't have to. Because in community, you can unburden.
You know, there's a famous saying that says, and I'm going to close here, says, joy shared is doubled.

Speaker 1 Sorrow shared is halved. So this is beautiful, you know? And science proves that.

Speaker 1 That when you bring about a traumatic experience as it happens to someone, in that very moment, there is a co-regulation, there's an entrainment. You can soften or you can regulate.

Speaker 1 You can bring someone into a state of ease.

Speaker 1 So we can't do it alone. I think that's where I want to live.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I hear that we don't have to do it alone. And we're not meant to, we're social beings.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Thank you. Such important work.
I'm so happy that you are a voice in the world for this. Thank you.

Speaker 1 You too. Oh, my goodness.
Thank you. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the world, starting with yourself. It truly does make a difference.

Speaker 2 And if you're finding value in this podcast, a cost-free way to support us is by leaving an up-to-five-star review. It does mean the world to us.

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Speaker 2 Just head over to Apple Podcast or Spotify and leave a review now. You can take a screenshot before hitting submit and then go to alistenobriga.com forward slash podcast to upload it.

Speaker 2 And make sure to have your automatic downloads turned on wherever you listen so you don't miss any of the upcoming episodes. I have so much magic, I can't wait to share with you.

Speaker 2 And you can find all this information in the show notes below. But lastly, if you're on Instagram, I love connecting and hearing from you.
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Speaker 2 Thank you again for being here. I cannot wait to share more with you.