How To Hear Your Soul's Calling & Alchemize Your Pain Into Purpose | Devi Brown

Speaker 1 What do you recommend for trusting the universe or trusting whatever spiritual connection, especially after times of heartbreak or suffering?

Speaker 1 I've had the experience of having my trust really broken in a lot of different kinds of ways and a lot of different kinds of people.

Speaker 1 But for whatever reason, I've always felt like it's me and you, God. It's me and you.
That's my driving force.

Speaker 1 My go-to is literally getting on my knees and immediately just repeating like a chant, I surrender, I surrender, I surrender. I think darkness has been my greatest teacher from a very young age.

Speaker 1 At some point, so many of us started falsely believing that the point of being alive was perfection or that it was meant to be really good all the time or great all the time.

Speaker 1 And to be alive and be human, it's always both. It doesn't mean your work didn't work.
It doesn't mean that you aren't as healed as you thought. It means you're alive on earth.

Speaker 1 People struggle with finding their purpose and you had the courage to leave a very successful career in radio to follow a new new calling. How did you hear and get clarity about what was next for you?

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the Healing and Human Potential podcast. If you have the desire to trust yourself and life more deeply, this conversation is for you.

Speaker 1 We're going to talk about how to really live your life more fully so that you don't feel like there's a finish line to cross once you've healed someday, even in the midst of trauma or transformation, grief, or suffering.

Speaker 1 We're going to go deep on how to alchemize our pain into purpose, hear what our inner calling is, and move beyond just self-awareness into higher consciousness.

Speaker 1 I'm so excited to introduce to you our guest, Debbie Brown, who is a multidisciplinary healer, creative advisor, author, and one of the most sought-after wellness educators in the country.

Speaker 1 The wisdom shared in this conversation has the power to change your entire life, no matter how stagnant it may feel right now. Let's dive in.

Speaker 1 I want to just hear your full wisdom on the human experience from grief to joy.

Speaker 1 But to start off, I just wanted to start by talking about a topic that can serve so many people, which is trusting the universe or trusting whatever spiritual connection that they have, especially after times of heartbreak or suffering.

Speaker 1 What do you recommend for people? Because I experience you live a deeper level of trust.

Speaker 1 And I'd love to hear your wisdom on helping people rebuild trust after betrayal or grief or something hard happening.

Speaker 1 For anybody who's listening that has gone through any of those things, it's so hard.

Speaker 1 It's so hard, you know, especially especially if you deal with betrayal and friendship or family or spouse relationship.

Speaker 1 It's like, it creates this paranoia in you at first where you're like, where else am I missing things? Like, where else am I getting it wrong? And I didn't know.

Speaker 1 And, you know, who are the people in front of me? What are they thinking? What are they feeling? And

Speaker 1 I know we use certain words and we know certain words already, but I would say, I mean, truly, my go-to is literally getting on my knees and immediately just repeating like a chant.

Speaker 1 I surrender, I surrender, I surrender, I surrender. I don't know, God.
I don't know. And that has truly been my go-to throughout my whole life.

Speaker 1 Like whatever hardship I've encountered when I know I've hit a wall. Like this is big Pluto energy.
Like I have hit a wall. Something I couldn't imagine that I absolutely can't control is happening.

Speaker 1 So stop. So just stop.
And I think when we build more trust in our historical evidence, I think something a lot of us need to get better at is trusting the history of our lives

Speaker 1 and really looking into it as like, this is God's plan. Like trust the patterns that have played out, the good and the hard ones.

Speaker 1 The hard ones are the ones you're meant to actually do the opposite and go against. So you stop having it and you start having new experiences.

Speaker 1 And I think we can also trust, like, where do you know you win?

Speaker 1 You know, and I think for me personally and my historical proof of my life this far, when I'm in a hard spot, the moment I choose to stop participating with it is when it clears or begins to bring a new light in that is pointing me on the paths and the directions.

Speaker 1 And I think, and I really don't know why this is the case. I've thought of it over the years, but I think the feeling that I have more than any other feeling, even in the hardest seasons, is trust.

Speaker 1 I don't quite know why because I've also had the experience of having my trust really broken in a lot of different kind of ways and a lot of different kind of people.

Speaker 1 But for whatever reason, I've always felt like it's me and you, God. It's me and you.
That's my driving force.

Speaker 1 It might be because I'm an only child and I'm just used to being inward and kind of having a more isolated observational experience in a lot of ways. But I think trust is my go-to.

Speaker 1 And I just, the phrase I use when I know nothing else is just like,

Speaker 1 gotta surrender. I can't do it.
Take it. Take it.
I love that. And do you feel like there's a correlation with self-trust and trust with life, God?

Speaker 1 It's so interesting because even you asking this question, I'm realizing like just the paradox in the way I've experienced it. And I haven't quite thought of it in this way before, but

Speaker 1 I have a deep amount of self-trust. In younger years, I don't quite know why.
You know, I think for people that don't have self-trust, the thing is, well, what is the thing that gets you there?

Speaker 1 And I think it's just a deep surrender to knowing I don't control anything and knowing that ultimately it's easier just to see what the universe has in store.

Speaker 1 And usually when I try to control it, I bring more problems into my life and more hardship. Good insight.
Yeah. Like if I hit my head against the wall, I'll stop and stop hurting.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Trying to get life to be different. But what I also hear in what you're sharing is there's a deeper trust in God and a loving intelligence.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 I think I know what should happen and I hurt when I do that versus I trust God. I trust a loving intelligence.
And if I let go, it feels better is what I'm hearing you say. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 If I let go, it feels better. I have enough historical proof in my life to show that one, I do make good choices.
I'm good at choices.

Speaker 1 It's something that you practice, that you grow, that you have to earn your own trust with, because the patience it takes to watch a choice you make long enough to trust your ability to do it, I think is the mechanism we're usually after.

Speaker 1 But our anxiety clouds that, or we get in the way, we get in the timing. You know, it's like, well, I made that choice, but I don't see X, Y, and C happening.
Or, well, now this is happening this way.

Speaker 1 And it's like, make a choice, give some space and time. You know, as fast as life does move, I think it never moves as fast as we think it does now because of social media.

Speaker 1 Like we really imagine that making a choice instantaneously will create all the moving pieces. And if we don't see it by the end of the day, we have to make a different choice.

Speaker 1 But it's not social media, right? It's not getting that fast kind of acknowledgement through a comment or through shares or likes.

Speaker 1 Like you have to sit in your own stew and like wait to see what it becomes. And I think that is the muscle that is like so deeply worthy of spending time with.

Speaker 1 I think more than anything else in this season for people,

Speaker 1 work on really having trust for yourself and having respect for the way that you uniquely make choices in your life. That's beautiful.

Speaker 1 And as you were talking, I don't know if you were saying this or I just heard it, but what I got was kind of doing an inventory on the past, doing some reflection and contemplation.

Speaker 1 When did I not trust and how did it work out? And when did I trust and how did it work out? Because it's that, like this reflective review to help build the confidence in ourselves and our decisions.

Speaker 1 By creating that inventory and even writing it on paper in the beginning, it gives you a lot.

Speaker 1 I remember when I was looking to rebuild trust with myself after my divorce, one of the ways that I did that is I created some new styles of personal journaling for myself.

Speaker 1 And I started keeping track of every time my intuition was right about something,

Speaker 1 even if it was right and I didn't listen, because it at least shows me the proof that it's working. Listening to it is my choice.
And we make choices based on so many things, usually fears.

Speaker 1 But I was able to keep track of when I was right. And that was so helpful.
And then I started keeping track of kind of the synchronicities in my life.

Speaker 1 You know, I think often like when you hear keep a gratitude journal, I never used to really resonate with that.

Speaker 1 Often I just used to find that, like, some of the things felt so small, you know, or felt like I didn't understand the healing potential in the gratitude for those moments.

Speaker 1 But when I started capturing, like, when did my intuition say something? When did I get a feeling? When did I get a nudge? What was the date? Keeping track of the dates of that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 When I had, you know, a feeling or a dream or saw something really beautiful.

Speaker 1 Personally, in my journey, birds speak to me a lot. I see a really, I have so much symbolism with birds.

Speaker 1 And like, I remember one day I was coming out of this big kind of, this big portion of like my personal rebuilding of my trust of myself.

Speaker 1 And, you know, when you're in those fibers where you're like, I know a piece of me is complete, but I haven't like fully, fully moved into whatever that new day-to-day experience of myself is.

Speaker 1 God always gives me signs. And I was sitting in my office, which I have this view of my backyard, and this huge great white hairon flew into my backyard, walked by my window, stopped and stared at me.

Speaker 1 I literally, I'm on a Zoom and I'm like,

Speaker 1 and I just close the screen and I go like that. I'm like, don't make quick moves.
And then it flew over my backyard and just walked the perimeter of my home for like 20 minutes and then flew away.

Speaker 1 And like something like that that, to me, I'll notice it every time.

Speaker 1 I'll stop, I'll take it in, I'll let myself really witness it and I'll write it down and I'll try to really capture the specialness of that feeling.

Speaker 1 And, you know, doing it with, you know, like very obvious and sacred symbolism like that, but then also doing it in the smaller moments, you know, when you hear a song go over and over and then someone happens to say a lyric another day.

Speaker 1 Or, you know, I have this experience where I was on a flight to new york i was going to go work this this wonderful event on joy and i was on a red eye flew into the city there was nothing on the tv to watch on the plane so i ended up watching some show i would just never in my life watch it was about gambling i would just never watch it it was about bookies and sport betting but i really loved this actor i had never seen before on the show and i was like gosh i love what he brings to this role and his face is so interesting like he had this like very interesting furrowed brow, right?

Speaker 1 So caught the flight from LA to New York, land in New York. I check into my hotel that morning.
It's really early. I'm near Central Park, so I love to walk whenever I land someplace.

Speaker 1 So I drop my bags and then I go set off to take a walk in Central Park. And I walk up to the mouth of the park.
It's as it's beginning to kind of open in a wider way.

Speaker 1 And right as I walk in, that actor walks towards me, holding hands with his two children, looking up at the sun, like pondering something. And his brow is furrowed.

Speaker 1 And like we walk by close enough to brush shoulders. And I just stop and I like watch him walk by.
And I was like,

Speaker 1 thank you, God. Like I didn't need to stop him.
It didn't need to become a thing. Like if that were to happen, it would have happened.

Speaker 1 But it was just kind of God saying, alignment is here, you know, and this is what happens when you're alignment.

Speaker 1 You get to see these special little gifts, these little little smiles, these little rewards that you're on the right track.

Speaker 1 And I really live by those, you know, on the hardest days, those give you so much reason and energy to keep going. It's like a wink from the universe.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 And I love an intuition journal is something that I use and love and teach on in my certification program. But synchronicity journal with what you're sharing, I love that as well.

Speaker 1 Because the more you pay attention to it, the more you notice those winks and that like guidance to keep going. And I think sometimes we assume that like we're just so alone, right?

Speaker 1 Like, especially if there's something that happens with the actual people in your life, which I think since the pandemic, you know, how many of us have been just continually taking stock on the depth of our relationships, the quality of them, you know, what feels aligned for who we are and who we want to be and where we're going.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I think when you stop and do that, it just gives you so much proof of how much guidance is always there. Yeah.
You have to pay attention to it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And some of these practices kind of open our mind to see and notice the guidance that is here. Have you ever felt like there's something more you're meant to do?

Speaker 1 Like you've outgrown the life that you're living, but you don't know what comes next? Maybe you've checked all the boxes and still something inside whispers this isn't it.

Speaker 1 What if that whisper is actually a calling, a sign that you're here to do something meaningful, something that lights you up and serves others in the process?

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Speaker 1 And I'm curious, in terms of like some of the shadow work, too, like how have you allowed darkness to be a teacher in your life to support you in finding purpose through pain?

Speaker 1 I think darkness has been my greatest teacher from a very young age.

Speaker 1 And, you know, it's interesting just on my path of even being a teacher myself and knowing that that's a viable path, you know, like

Speaker 1 having darkness as

Speaker 1 sometimes a companion.

Speaker 1 And it's just always been there and so is light.

Speaker 1 And I think something I really tackle in my book, Living in Wisdom, is, and my approach is really about living your wisdom, you know, like live the embodied

Speaker 1 fullness of everything that darkness has brought to your feet, everything that light has brought to your life and live all of it, you know.

Speaker 1 When I think about darkness as a teacher, I think, and I'm sure many, especially listening to this show, have you know heard of the concept of being a wounded healer?

Speaker 1 I knew that's what I was since I was a little girl.

Speaker 1 I was always the kind of intuitive problem solver, you know, the kid kind of giving a lot of answers to adults sometimes, or just noticing and really deeply observing the complexity of being alive and making choices and being responsible for people.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 part of my life story that I explore in the book is that a lot of people in my life from childhood through now,

Speaker 1 I experienced a lot of murder. There was a lot of ending of life of people I cared about and knew in really

Speaker 1 hard ways. And in often a lot of ways that never received justice.
There was just no real clear acknowledgement, atonement, anything.

Speaker 1 And making peace with scenarios like that that you don't really find peace with in the world. It's been a pattern.
It's been a teacher. It's been a path.

Speaker 1 And so grief has been present in my life since I was a child.

Speaker 1 And I think I've, my life's work has been learning to dance with it and learning that, you know, at some point, so many of us started kind of falsely believing that the point of being alive was perfection or that it was meant to be really good all the time or great all the time all the time yeah easy all the time or that that's what you're working towards and it's like yeah, the grace absolutely is there and comes and pleasure and beauty and all of it, radiance, like divine love, all of it are there too.

Speaker 1 But to be alive and be human, it's always both.

Speaker 1 It's always both

Speaker 1 for really all of us.

Speaker 1 And I think the sooner we can acknowledge that that's just true and accept that both are the point of being here and that is what earth school is, you know, I think not only does it make it it easier, but it makes you

Speaker 1 more precisional about the way you explore and expand your life. I have always known that I could trust myself.

Speaker 1 I have always known that I was here to live for purpose, even without knowing whatever that quote-unquote meant at younger ages. I've always been led by that.
And so I think that helped.

Speaker 1 That helped when you go through hard, hard things. And, you know, even now as a mom raising a seven-year-old, and I just had two really hard tragedies that hit my life very, very, very, very

Speaker 1 close to home, literally and figuratively. And you learn eventually when you accept that it's part of it, how to care for yourself when darkness is here.
And so when those times are here, I know

Speaker 1 you're going to try to sleep more. You're going to say no to more things so that you can get more hours of sleep a day.
So your body isn't taking on all the stress responses.

Speaker 1 You know, I think it's important for people to know that it doesn't mean your work didn't work, right? It doesn't mean that you aren't as healed as you thought. It means you're alive on earth.

Speaker 1 And so some weeks, some months, you're going to be in it. For those that live here in LA, we had fires, right? Like they were so close.
I evacuated.

Speaker 1 The amount of anxiety that you take on from your own fear and then the fear that's present, you know, in your environment, it's no matter how healed you are, no matter how much you meditate each day, you're going to take on real physical, biological stress responses.

Speaker 1 So then it becomes about using your wisdom. How do I take care of myself when the true reality of light and dark knocks on my door? Yeah.
And there's so much wisdom.

Speaker 1 It feels like a level of maturity to say yes to the shadow and the light versus just trying to get, you know, the light.

Speaker 1 And so there's wisdom in the darkness and there's a way to use it for our growth and healing. But I love the perspective and I align with this of saying yes to all of it.

Speaker 1 Like real love says yes to the heartbreak and the grief and the challenges. It's not about trying to manage and control life so we only have the quote unquote good.

Speaker 1 There's actual beauty in what we think is bad. And it doesn't mean we're...

Speaker 1 we don't have boundaries or can't speak our voice around what doesn't work for us, but at least to use that soil, the hard experiences for our growth and evolution.

Speaker 1 We leave so much on the table if we don't.

Speaker 1 Because I think for so many of us, we found out even the hardest stuff that will never make sense to you, when you work with it differently inside of your body and in your life, you do get opened up to so many new levels of experiences that really take you out of circling certain patterns or take you out of certain ecosystems and environments.

Speaker 1 And I think that's that's what we're here for. We are here for both and both can be utilized.
And I also ironically have found that people have a hard time experiencing joy.

Speaker 1 Oh, that it's actually hard for people, especially when there's some level of guilt, when there's hardship going on in their life.

Speaker 1 Can you speak to this a little bit? Oh, I would love to. First, I think it's so important for people to know that, in fact, joy does have to be practiced.

Speaker 1 I think that we have culturally adopted a performative joy, right? We know

Speaker 1 when a time of celebration is in front of us. We know the things that societally seem acceptable for celebration and we can lean into that, right?

Speaker 1 And we know, especially, my God, after the last 15 years of all of our rehearsed poses and our practiced, you know, like elevator pitches about ourselves and, you know, we have

Speaker 1 performance down pat all of the pictures, like you could be really having a great day with your friends. And then when you want to take a group pick, then everyone's like, okay, everyone, let's laugh.

Speaker 1 And then you do it and you're like, God,

Speaker 1 I always think back, like, am I going to even recognize myself in these photos? Will I know what, when I was really happy and when I was led to laugh? So I take that kind of stuff very seriously.

Speaker 1 But I say all that to say, I think it's so important for us to gut check if we know what a boating joy feels like in our bodies versus what performative happiness and a well-practiced smile and enthusiastic voice is.

Speaker 1 Sometimes we got to put it on.

Speaker 1 So I'm not taking away from that, but it's important that we know the truth in our body of what is performative joy and what is actually a feeling of bliss, what is a feeling of enoughness.

Speaker 1 And so I think I've been in big practice

Speaker 1 really since probably 2017, but the pandemic is when I perfected it, what I like to call tiny joys, which are just like surrendering to the enoughness of what's in front of me.

Speaker 1 And so my my hardest days that look like going outside and closing my eyes, laying on the grass, looking up at the sun and feeling the orange glow of light pour into my eyelids.

Speaker 1 And that became the thing when everything else didn't feel like enough and when everything else felt hard. I knew that was true.

Speaker 1 I knew whatever I felt in my body in that moment was true and it was real and I was present and it brought me happiness because it reminded me of being a kid doing that at recess.

Speaker 1 And so finding those things, I think for many years, many years, I practiced like seeing something beautiful and stopping and staring at it or taking a photo of it that I didn't post or that someone wouldn't see or literally bending down to touch the thing or smell the thing.

Speaker 1 And that's my fuel. You know, it's not always possible that big joy is present.
I think my son's smile serves as that, you know, like like those moments with my, my kid every day.

Speaker 1 I feel so grateful to love and be a mom. But outside of that, when I'm out of the house, it's, it's that.
I can fill myself with

Speaker 1 at least a sense of stability, enoughness, and best case, like true joy on my worst day for at least a moment with that as a practice. And I think most of us think our whole lives have to change.

Speaker 1 And if we only understood that like that is actually more than enough and will take you places you can never imagine. I love that.

Speaker 1 It's those micro moments throughout the day that really change our lives. And as you were talking, I love the practice of joy.

Speaker 1 I love really nurturing and cultivating that, and also giving ourselves permission when something moves us and it may not be socially acceptable to allow that.

Speaker 1 Like, I just got back from a weekend with my dad in the Redwoods, and as soon as I walked out in the forest, I just started tearing up.

Speaker 1 I just love moss and just being nourished this like, this like forest bath going, like moving through my aura.

Speaker 1 And we were talking and I could have stopped to really allow myself to let it in more rather than continue to talk.

Speaker 1 But I think if I were to allow myself to do that, that would replenish me more, but also inspire him to just drop into the moment with me and enjoy that kind of forest bath that we were receiving in the moment.

Speaker 1 And so the practice joy, but also the willingness to allow ourselves to be authentic in whatever our experience is.

Speaker 1 And if we're grieving and it's not true that it's sad for us in that moment, that that's okay.

Speaker 1 Or if we're feeling joyful and it doesn't quite make sense, I mean, obviously, we're going to be appropriate to the moment.

Speaker 1 So, if somebody's really going through a hard time, we're going to meet them, but it doesn't mean we have to go into suffering because, you know, as a therapist, if I were suffering with all of my clients, I wouldn't have ever helped them.

Speaker 1 But to meet them and not feel like that my joy isn't a gift to the world because it is, especially in a world that is so filled with suffering, our joy is a gift.

Speaker 1 And so, to allow ourselves permission to feel whatever is true in the moment on the full spectrum, I think is part of the teaching. Yeah, to feel.
It's what we're here to do.

Speaker 1 You know, and I think if we choose to leave like

Speaker 1 one thing off the list, right? Like for some, that means like anger or sadness or depression when it's there.

Speaker 1 We can't access any of it. in its fullness, you know, like if we have to accept all of it to truly feel any of it.
That's right. That's right.
And I think that's maturity is realizing that.

Speaker 1 What about for people who are sort of doing the healing work, waiting to really live their life once they're healed, or they may be isolating themselves so that then just in their healing journey, any words of wisdom for people that are there?

Speaker 1 It's all full circle. You know, and I think we're in the season we're in while we're in there.
Isolation serves a purpose. Some people will call that hermit mode, right? Or so many other things.

Speaker 1 You're hibernating and you're healing, but that serves an absolute purpose.

Speaker 1 And then you know when it's time to move on to something else, whether you choose it or not, that's when you have to really get into the inner crevices. What I like to call doing the crevice work.

Speaker 1 So it's you've kind of cleared out the space, but now it's almost like you're detailing a car. So you're going in with all the little tiny, fine tools and you're dusting in the cracks.

Speaker 1 And when we get those spaces clear, those are kind of those hidden limitations and lacks and fears, then we're able to really move into what is already naturally opening up for us.

Speaker 1 You know, what I found is at least, you know, when we're on the healing journey, we know when things start to open.

Speaker 1 Sometimes there's a lot of timing aligned with that. So you might miss a certain window of a certain opportunity to heal in a particular way or to move forward in a particular way.

Speaker 1 So then you might sit back and sit on the bench for another season and the opportunity will arise again because, you know, the lesson repeats as needed, including the pushing and the nudging from the universe to move forward into something new, which usually after a season of isolation, it means it's time to practice in community.

Speaker 1 And I think that's the piece that I hope more people find

Speaker 1 inspiring and encouraging. I had a teacher once share, and I love this, that we're all spiritual scientists.
Like get out there and experiment, you know?

Speaker 1 And I think when you're in your healing, growing your self-trust and everything else, it's about experimenting, trying a new way of being yourself, trying new things on, using different tone, different words, using your own tools to self-regulate in real time, you know, so it's not, everything doesn't always have to be about your triggers.

Speaker 1 At some point, we have to outgrow that and we have to outgrow that language, you know, and what do you do anyway?

Speaker 1 You know, um, and I think we keep giving being given, we keep being given these beautiful opportunities to raise to new levels of healing. It is still your choice.
We still have free will.

Speaker 1 Some people will get stuck at self-awareness and they're going to have all the language and they're going to share readily.

Speaker 1 what the issues are, where they're found at, why they behave the way they do, why that person probably behaves the way that they do, what that person's experience led them to do, great.

Speaker 1 At that, that is very important, but you are meant to transcend that into something else, which I believe is into living your wisdom or said other ways into like embodying your healing.

Speaker 1 I just spoke at an event last Friday, so just a few days ago, and they were like, we need mindset work. I'm like, no, you don't.
You know, at this point, awareness is great.

Speaker 1 A mindset work is great, but it's it's got a limit. You want to do deeper work to start integrating an embodied knowing, more of a somatic knowing, unconscious reprogramming.

Speaker 1 You have to get in your body. Exactly.
Is there a practice that you love that supports people in having shifts by really embodying the work?

Speaker 1 I think for everyone, they need to start privately spending time with their bodies. There's a lot of different ways that I think, you know, our somatic healing also grows and levels up, right?

Speaker 1 And where I am now, what I love is that all the somatic work I've done on myself shows up and I don't have to think about it.

Speaker 1 If I'm in a high charge environment, my body automatically knows what breath to take in. It no longer is something I have to stop and say, okay, let me breathe.
Let me do my breath work, practice.

Speaker 1 My body trusts itself now. It knows how to go into action.

Speaker 1 I think it's important that people know that you get to that point where you don't have to think about all the ways that you're going to show up and all the ways that you're going to, you know, embody the things you've been practicing.

Speaker 1 It becomes automatic in us, which I think is so exciting to know that that peace comes. It was certainly exciting for me when I realized it clicked into place.
And I'm like, oh, great.

Speaker 1 I don't have to worry about that anymore. It's going to happen.
I think before you get to that step, Know that you can take a year, you can take two years to just every free chance you get.

Speaker 1 My time was usually in the evening after I put my son to bed, spending time with my body. Slow stretching every night is a huge part of my life.
Long stretches,

Speaker 1 deep stretches, deep squats are something that I work on a lot.

Speaker 1 Self-massage in Ayurveda, it's called, you know, abhayanga, like doing your practices, but touching yourself, touch your face, lotion your body.

Speaker 1 That's where the real work is because a lot of us take on, especially depending on what you may have walked through, and especially if it involves your body, learning to be gentle with your own self, learning how to also give yourself sometimes a firmer touch when you need it.

Speaker 1 Like if you want to get in your trigger points, or I recommend hand massage and feet massage for people every night, I think being able to look yourself in the eye when you look in the mirror is so important.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 just getting a quick quick, hold hands with your toes, you know, little things that you would not think to do, but notice with curiosity what your small rejections are.

Speaker 1 Most of us are not going to like it at first. One, it could be irritating.
You might think it's dumb.

Speaker 1 You might think that a practice like this is too small or not serious enough or intellectual enough to really meet your need that you know about privately.

Speaker 1 Also, if you've been taking care of yourself your whole life, sometimes there is this like secret private resentment about always having to be the one that cares for yourself.

Speaker 1 So you feel better about doing it for other people and then you resent doing it for yourself.

Speaker 1 Usually those areas, my friend Jazz, rest in peace, used to always say, the triggers are where the truth lies, right? And so I think the same is really true when we're working with our bodies.

Speaker 1 Notice it with curiosity. It is okay if you're not comfortable doing all of this stuff.
I know on Instagram, it looks, you know, so simple. And then in practice, it can be really jarring.

Speaker 1 I think that's the case for so many of us. Coming home to yourself is also coming home to your physical body and sometimes just

Speaker 1 knowing you can place a hand on your chest when you need it. Knowing you can hold your own waist when you need it.

Speaker 1 Knowing that if something is coming up, it's okay to just rub your thighs as you talk through something challenging. I had a friend that was going through something really, really hard recently.
And

Speaker 1 I was really gifted the opportunity to be there for her body in a way that I've never been gifted to be with a friend. And it was one of the most incredible experiences I've ever had.

Speaker 1 And I hope, I hope, and I pray it was helpful and meaningful for her. But I got to really hold her.
Like I got to hold someone I know and love. I got to hold her like my baby.

Speaker 1 And I got to like, you know, rub her waist and her hips as she cried and like hold her ears and just like do little things that I learned how to do for myself.

Speaker 1 And having that gift and knowing that I can give that to someone and give that to my child and give that to myself. And it took many years to feel comfortable doing any of it.
But I think.

Speaker 1 Taking more pleasure in the slowness sometimes of what the healing journey is is so special and beautiful and so next level. And I love that you said, be a scientist in your own life.
Test it out.

Speaker 1 Try it out. Maybe give this one a little bit more to move through the critical mind of this is slow or I shouldn't be the one doing this to myself.

Speaker 1 But like you said, as we offer it to ourselves, it's so much easier to then also offer it to others from a place of.

Speaker 1 embodied connection, you know, from overflow. I also wanted to ask you, because I know

Speaker 1 people struggle with finding their purpose and you had the courage to leave a very successful career in radio to follow a new calling. How did you hear and get clarity about what was next for you?

Speaker 1 Oh, it's such a windy road, that question.

Speaker 1 Because I think I look at it in so many ways. And I think something I feel grateful back about that I've been thinking a lot about lately, and I hope I have the language for is I started like a very

Speaker 1 like real, real world career at a very young age.

Speaker 1 So I got into journalism and broadcasting and I worked in both FM radio and TV and they all have different flavors and forms to them and the way you show up in each of those mediums.

Speaker 1 I was 19 when I started.

Speaker 1 So the year was 2004 or five, and it's before social media.

Speaker 1 So I was able to get a lot of practice in and a lot of understanding of communicating with people in those very trad more traditional systems but that are actually like really time-tested like i i'm so grateful for the education i earned in that space but i've never had a strong hold on my own personality having to be the star or having to be centered even though i was always a visible person that wasn't what led me and i think that really helped me honestly move it take those skills and move into many different worlds and places with them as the world has dramatically changed.

Speaker 1 You know, at one time you had to work really hard and hopefully be noticed as one of hundreds of thousands in the world.

Speaker 1 And now it's like you can buy a camera and you can be who you are and you can share your gifts readily and no one has to give you the go-ahead or say yes to you for that to happen.

Speaker 1 So living in both worlds, I think has given me a really interesting education. And I don't know if this is just my makeup.
I don't know why it's this way, but I'm very grateful for it.

Speaker 1 I have never tied my identity to one single thing or anything

Speaker 1 really since my early 20s. I got some great lessons in that industry because that really was like a succeed or fail in very clear ways industry.

Speaker 1 And I learned around 21 that I have to know who I am and I have to know that I'm valuable whether or not I got that gig, whether or not, you know, I'm taking on that position or anybody liked what I made.

Speaker 1 So many of the things that I used to make and be led by are only in right now. It's been 20 years, you know? And so I think to that, I also trust that like, that's God's design.

Speaker 1 Maybe I'm meant to be ahead. Maybe I am meant to kind of pioneer some things and guide people that bring them to life or plant seeds that bring bring it to life in 10 years, in 20 years, in 50 years.

Speaker 1 Who knows? That's the point of creation. And I think that's what every great artist ever did.
There was no algorithms. There was no, I'm not naturally a competitive person anyway.

Speaker 1 Like I trust my life and I trust myself. And I know not only am I valuable and worthy, but I know I'm pretty excellent.
I've, I've lived a very excellent life and I've worked really hard.

Speaker 1 And I move with, my intention is to always move with integrity and mastery.

Speaker 1 And so whether I have, you know, a nationally syndicated radio show or my podcast or my speaking or my clients or executive work, I'm going to show up with the skills I've amassed, with the gifts I innately have, and with the work ethic, professionalism, and excellence that I've practiced for decades.

Speaker 1 in every single thing that I touch.

Speaker 1 And so I think that in this season is a lost art art because for a lot of people who are, you know, a bit younger than me, maybe or came into the work differently, all the focus is on whose numbers say what, right?

Speaker 1 And this understanding that like work should outlive you. What you're creating now, it should last.
It should be helpful. It should be necessary.

Speaker 1 It should be useful and valuable to serve more than just yourself and your own ego. And I think when you're clear on those things,

Speaker 1 life really opens up and you're really grateful for what's in front of you and you're grateful for what you bring to it.

Speaker 1 And like, I think it's important for people to know why they do what they do, who they do it for. And I don't just mean that in these quote unquote audience terms.
Like,

Speaker 1 I really hope for people, because this is going to end, right? Like this way of being, it's so saturated right now that it's hitting a bubble that will pop. It's happened.

Speaker 1 That's another thing. Trust the history of humanity.
This is going to pop. So who are you when it does?

Speaker 1 And how are what you are and what you've amassed and what you've become, how is that transferable to other ways that continue to stretch and grow you?

Speaker 1 So I think it's really important not to attach your identity to every single thing that you do.

Speaker 1 Know who you are and why you do it outside of if it's popular right now or getting quote unquote engagement.

Speaker 1 And really just just keep learning and keep growing. You know, when it was time to walk away from that career, it wasn't a question.

Speaker 1 It wasn't a question. It was just, okay, what's next? I was doing that.
Now I'm going to do this. And I always looked at it with that much ease.

Speaker 1 Now, did there come a point where you're also battling the adjustment stage of what happens when you're starting a new career, you're understanding the lay of the land, you're getting acclimated to this new level in your life or to these new experiences.

Speaker 1 100%, absolutely, nothing is easy ever, right? Like everything takes adjustment and it takes kind of harmonizing.

Speaker 1 But I'm usually always open to saying yes.

Speaker 1 to whatever the path in front of me is asking of me.

Speaker 1 And was there a moment with the radio career where you felt like it was no longer a yes and you wanted to be more authentic to speak about mental health or other things that may have been cut out of the things that you wanted to do on public radio?

Speaker 1 Absolutely, deeply, deeply, deeply, yes.

Speaker 1 You know, part of the work that I did, so I worked specifically in entertainment-driven and music industry-driven radio. I've also had a very layered life.

Speaker 1 So, while I was starting my career in radio here in LA, where I grew up, I also like worked at a label. I worked at Universal and Interscope for a little bit.

Speaker 1 And there was this incredible, like, just resurgence of hip-hop in LA at the time. The year was was very early.
It was a long time ago. It was the aughts.

Speaker 1 And so, yeah, I had a lot of experiences and a lot of different kind of things. And then it moved me into different places.
I used to be a red carpet host when that was really hard to do and rare.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I'd be at the Grammys or award shows or doing all these things. And something I realized was,

Speaker 1 what did I get into this for?

Speaker 1 I started in that world and it kind of just turned into a lot of success. There was a lot of great timing in my life that played into it, but I wanted to be like Mr.
Rogers.

Speaker 1 I grew up a PBS kid who was also a hip-hop head, but I wanted to do what LeVar Burton did for young people. I wanted to do what Mr.
Rogers did for people.

Speaker 1 I wanted to create meaningful work in the broadcasting world, but I wanted to be seen and broadcast only to convey help and to do what I thought could matter, not to just say, like, look at me and I'm this and I'm that.

Speaker 1 So I was always at odds with the industry I found myself in because what started as like me also serving as the community actions director here in LA and working with the city at the radio station I worked at and having a show turned into nothing but non-stop celebrity interviews.

Speaker 1 And it's why I do my podcasts so differently now. Like I don't go for, you know, certain names just because they're in.

Speaker 1 I go for what I think is going to stand the test of time and what's resonant because I spent well over a decade of interviewing every celebrity you can imagine, sometimes eight, nine, 10 a day when I worked in New York, when I worked at Sirius.

Speaker 1 And, you know, it's just, I was able to really glean very fast through a lot of great pattern recognition, like, what doesn't matter and what matters?

Speaker 1 Like whose work is like changing the world and changing people and who's self-serving or feeding the lower vibrations on the planet.

Speaker 1 And I didn't want to have to do both just because I was getting paid to do it.

Speaker 1 And at a certain point, I had this one really amazing interview in 2014 and it was with Kendrick Lamar, who was a friend for many years. I interviewed him many, many, many, many times.

Speaker 1 And his work has always been profound. It's always been consciousness shifting.
And I remember we had this phenomenal interview about suicide, ideation, and depress, depression. The year was 2014.

Speaker 1 Nobody, nobody, nobody was talking about this stuff. I think at most we had Dr.
Phil, right? Like however anyone feels about that.

Speaker 1 And of course, you know, we had the great goddess queen of our lives, Oprah Winfrey, but there wasn't talk, there wasn't even the term mental health.

Speaker 1 And we were having a conversation that I knew like the world and especially that audience hadn't caught up to. And after I did it, I was told I couldn't air it because no one cared.

Speaker 1 And why didn't I ask questions about

Speaker 1 who he, you know, is beefing with or who he's excited to work with or what celebrities he knows or who he's dating? And so I myself just threw it on the internet, right?

Speaker 1 Now that's commonplace, but at the time it was strange. Threw it on the internet.
I started receiving all of these letters from people all over telling me, oh my God, I felt that that way.

Speaker 1 I never knew what that was called. And oh my God, this, you know, this interview changed my life or I'd been hurting myself and this is making me find help.

Speaker 1 I had this editor actually from Vogue magazine reach out, called me on my hotline at the radio station and say, it's the best interview I've ever seen on him. We're doing a feature.

Speaker 1 We're doing a cover. Like we want to work with him.
Like, can I use you as a source? Can I use your work? That changed everything because at that time, there was no viable route for me to take.

Speaker 1 There was no TV station. There was no radio station.
There was no show that did what I wanted to do. There was not space for it.
But I knew it mattered and I took that as enough.

Speaker 1 And so that was the first seed of saying,

Speaker 1 even if I lose my quote unquote audience, right? Even if I don't pull in these stats that say 2.4 million people listen to your show every day,

Speaker 1 it doesn't matter because I feel like I actually helped someone when I did that. So that changed everything for me.
And, you know, at that point, I had already been deeply, deeply on my own journey.

Speaker 1 I had already been certified as a meditation teacher, as a breath work teacher. I had already been secretly seeking that stuff out.

Speaker 1 I had started going on retreats when that was not a word, you know, and a thing.

Speaker 1 But it wasn't something I could talk about in my life because at that time, everyone thought it was strange. And I was really young at the time.
I was mid-20s.

Speaker 1 So I just, I didn't, I had no thought that I would teach ever in my life.

Speaker 1 But I knew sign up for that program. It's going to take you three years, but do it anyway.
Sign up for that program. It's going to take a year.
You have to read 30 books. Do it anyway.
Just do it.

Speaker 1 Just do it. And I'm really good at just saying yes.
I trust. God.
I trust myself.

Speaker 1 So even if it doesn't make sense, I know if I'm supposed to learn learn something, study something, show up to something, say yes to something. I've always trusted that.

Speaker 1 It'd be years before any of that made sense to me. Even after that interview, I stayed in that career an additional two years, did many more things, and then was figuring out what my exit was.

Speaker 1 And then I walked away from it in 2016. And, you know, I said, I retire from this.
Like, I want to do things differently.

Speaker 1 And I trust. Good for you.

Speaker 1 There's so many things that I want to highlight to make sure people hear in your story.

Speaker 1 One is just the knowing yourself and what is important to you, and having the courage to follow that even when it didn't make sense.

Speaker 1 Because that's not only going to be helpful in choosing a career and a path, but staying in alignment regardless of the twists and turns that it takes.

Speaker 1 And that it has opened up something that's way more meaningful and aligned for you as a result.

Speaker 1 And it's my experience as well: when I've trusted, even if it logically didn't make sense, knowing myself and taking the next most intelligent step, it opens, it shows and reveals.

Speaker 1 And aligned community always shows up. Yes.
And I think especially when you're coming out of that isolated journey and needing to practice in community, you don't know what you haven't seen yet.

Speaker 1 So a lot of people have never had the experience of being supported by anyone, but especially on those bigger dreams. And I think it's important to know that like, that might not show up first.

Speaker 1 You might have to say yes and walk into the room and not know a soul.

Speaker 1 And then your practice is learning how to build relationship, learning how to give what you have to give, learning how to receive what they have to give. And all of that is a dance, you know? So

Speaker 1 it's all happening at the same time. And it all takes time and presence.
But keep trusting it. And it does unfold, I think, a lot faster and a lot fuller than we can really imagine.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And community is such an important piece in changing changing our lives. Being in that community can accelerate everything.
And you have a powerful video about,

Speaker 1 you know, sometimes the relationships expiring and how do you decipher when something still feels in alignment versus when do you let go of certain relationships in your life?

Speaker 1 That's a season I found myself again in again recently. And it surprised me because I think, you know,

Speaker 1 At a certain point, many of us understand it's time to shed. You got to walk away from some situations, even ones you love, if it's not in full alignment or in full integrity with your path.

Speaker 1 And it takes so much work to do that. And it takes so much like,

Speaker 1 oh God, like practice and self-forgiveness and

Speaker 1 intention. It takes an enormous amount of intention and presence

Speaker 1 to

Speaker 1 have a graceful shed in your life. And I think that option is always available to us.

Speaker 1 Sometimes we don't listen and then it turns into, oh, someone had to betray you before you knew you needed to let them go or something had to blow up.

Speaker 1 But I think we all know when the cues are there, we get these tiny little signals that we clock, right?

Speaker 1 And for some people, it could be a tone, a way they say something, a particular type of passive aggression or jab or

Speaker 1 distance or, you know, and it doesn't always have to mean big problems.

Speaker 1 It doesn't have to mean something's nefarious or dark, but it can just show that like, I don't feel as emotionally safe or still in this connection as I know I want to feel in my life or as I know I extend for people when they're in my presence.

Speaker 1 So it's important to get, I think, first to understand like, what do you need? What do you want? And who are you really? What do you actually have to give? And then trust that

Speaker 1 Not only is it okay

Speaker 1 for us to create that space and sunset some relationships, it's the intended path.

Speaker 1 I heard recently on a podcast, and I love it, I think it was on Mel Robbins' podcast, and I, deepest apologies to this woman for not knowing her name right now, because her words were powerful.

Speaker 1 She was a therapist and she was sharing about friendship and community, and she said that

Speaker 1 It is so normal and it's the average experience to shed half of your friend group every seven years.

Speaker 1 And she said, I say that stat to extend grace to everyone, to know that you're in seasons where it feels like, how did I miss this blind spot?

Speaker 1 Or no, I never thought I would lose them or God, I can never just find the right group of people.

Speaker 1 All of these are always moving parts and pieces. Each of us has our own destiny and life experiences and paths open to us.
And it's always kind of musical chairs happening.

Speaker 1 And that's another thing, just like grief and just like darkness, if we see it and we can accept it, maybe we can move through it with more integrity, more peace, more grace.

Speaker 1 Maybe we can walk away from someone and have a huge thank you that we share with them for what we meant to each other while we were in each other's lives. Yeah.
And to get the lesson.

Speaker 1 To get the lesson. And because we attract different people at different phases of our journey to help us in earth school learn whatever lesson and to share in love and learnings.

Speaker 1 And the love can maintain, but the expiration and the form of that love can change. And I think I love the permission that it's normal and it's okay.
It doesn't mean anything's wrong.

Speaker 1 And we evolve and grow, especially people are on a personal development and spiritual path. That's very normal.
Have clarifying conversations.

Speaker 1 Just ask questions of the people in your life and be willing to share. What is your capacity for friendship in this season? Yeah, and one person might be more available than the other not.

Speaker 1 And that doesn't mean anything's wrong with either way. It's just about being honest, knowing yourself what you need, clearly communicating it without the expectation with an open heart.

Speaker 1 And as we learn to do that in friendship, that also translates to team and to kids and to family and boundaries. And if you can't give as much as someone in your life right now, don't take as much.

Speaker 1 You know, be open and honest about that too.

Speaker 1 And notice like, you know, where am I maybe getting a little gluttonous knowing that I can't give back the fullness of what that person can give me in this season.

Speaker 1 You know, like where can I self-regulate? Where can I also push myself? Because being in community also means discomfort.

Speaker 1 Being in close friendship and relationship, it also means, yeah, sometimes you are going to have to do things you don't want to do because it's part of the greater good or the greater fabric of what you're building with that person.

Speaker 1 I like clear agreements and not unspoken expectations. Yeah.
That feels clean. Yeah.
And then it's just speaking our truth. And it's like, here's what I'm available for.
Here's what I'm not.

Speaker 1 And we do it in love. Yeah.
Like we're taught so often to do it in romantic relationship, you know, to have that kind of, so what are we?

Speaker 1 Kind of conversation, you know, or just like, I want to be clear. Where do we stand? What are our boundaries?

Speaker 1 And it's like friendships are usually, you know, depending on like sometimes in many of our lives, the longer standing connections, you know, or the ones that hold you for longer, different stretches of your life.

Speaker 1 Why can't we do that there too? Absolutely. Yeah.
I think we should do it in all relationships: team, friends, lovers, partners, all forms. I think it's healthy.
It feels clean. It feels clean.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I know that you have a deep meditation practice and love that. What's been one of the most powerful realizations or learnings from your practice?

Speaker 1 My meditation practice is one of the most special things in my life.

Speaker 1 It's been such a long journey. And for anybody that is interested in meditation, and I just really want to share, like, it's okay to dislike it at first.
It's okay to not get it.

Speaker 1 You actually probably won't. And I think it's like, you know, the ways in the 90s and the early 2000s, the way meditation was shared in the Western world, it was always about just pristine peace.

Speaker 1 And you had to be your posture had to be perfect and you had to have your mudra precise. And, you know, and it's like, that's not really real.

Speaker 1 And for most of us that have a lot of friction in life, because hello to be alive right now,

Speaker 1 or if you have complex trauma I do I have a lot of trauma a lot it's really hard to meditate when you have trauma it's really triggering it takes sometimes help sometimes practice and sometimes it may not be your medium I am so happy that you say this so I have had a meditation teacher I've probably been to 20 silent retreats like week-long silent retreats and we were talking about this in the community that I would say one-third of people that have had trauma I would say one-third of people should not not just be silently sitting because they're just re-looping in their trauma.

Speaker 1 They need to be first. Yes, exactly.
Yeah. Please speak more.
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think, so, and this is a lot of what I teach in my book.

Speaker 1 I dedicate a whole chapter to a trauma-informed meditation practice approach because as a teacher, that is always,

Speaker 1 always how I approach this process. And a lot of people do meditation for a lot of different ways.

Speaker 1 And sometimes it's easier to come in on it, you know, by saying, you know, it's like your mindset work or saying, you know, it's like there's a lot of trendy ways that you can hold it, right?

Speaker 1 That sound powerful and strong. But meditation is the master healer.

Speaker 1 It is the master tool to rising in consciousness and to releasing and to being able to come into the role of the observer, which I think when you're on your journey is the ultimate place that so many of us hope to land and eventually land.

Speaker 1 It's in the space of bearing witness to everything around us and having an unbearable compassion for all of it.

Speaker 1 You know, having the ability to come back in and choose in the moment what is right for you in that exact,

Speaker 1 in that moment, in that opportunity. And that's a lot of where meditation gets you.
There are many stages to meditation.

Speaker 1 And so if you have had a significant amount of trauma, especially if it's involved in a way where you have fear closing your eyes, if that is tied to certain experiences that you and your body have been through.

Speaker 1 It's important to know you do not have to start there. I would say start at breath work and start with a low eye gaze.

Speaker 1 Keep your eyes a low breath, like not the intense, more holotropic, not a holotropic breath. Big T trauma and holotropic.
Yeah. You want to be more gentle with the process.

Speaker 1 Don't go directly into having a breath work journey, maybe, and don't go into the holotropic breath.

Speaker 1 Like go more into a deep belly breath, just a grounded breath or an alternate nostril breathing technique because that helps bring harmony into your right and your left brain and often if you've had trauma you are kind of struggling in between both you're bouncing around you are slipping and sliding up and down these neural pathways that have been formed in really hard times and so A lot of your work will be the work of neuroplasticity.

Speaker 1 A lot of your work will be in recreating all of those freeways and highways and systems in your heart and in your mind. You're in a long game with this work.

Speaker 1 There is no expectation that you walk out of a weekend retreat perfect at doing this and fully healed.

Speaker 1 There's not an expectation of doing a week long, of even doing, you know, some people will go straight to the Himalayas and do a 30-day, right? Do a 60-day.

Speaker 1 It takes so much presence and practice. You have to give yourself time, but start with deep belly breathing.

Speaker 1 Alternate your nostrils in the breath. Work with a box breath, which is four seconds in, four seconds hold, four seconds out, four seconds hold.
And as you're doing that, keep your eyes in peripheral.

Speaker 1 Keep a low gaze. Be able to know that you can look at the sides of you.
You can look down. Keep a hazy gaze.
Just kind of see what's in front of you.

Speaker 1 Practice in nature or practice where you feel the safest, like in your room, in your closet, in your car.

Speaker 1 As long as it's safe, obviously engine off and all the things that are needed, but you can make this as cocooned and safe as you need it to be, have soft things near you, anything you need, and know that part of the journey with it is things coming up.

Speaker 1 Now, if you have significant trauma, and especially if you have complex trauma, there were a lot of things hard that happened in your life.

Speaker 1 Seek support

Speaker 1 and maybe work with guided meditation for the first several months, for the first year. That way you have a companion with you.

Speaker 1 Part of my, and I was gratefully I had the opportunity because I love doing this so much, to be the voice of daily meditation in the Chopra app for many years.

Speaker 1 I helped build that app with Chopra Global and Deepak and the heart of the pandemic. So we created some incredible, I mean, hundreds and hundreds, incredible meditations.

Speaker 1 Find a voice that resonates with you.

Speaker 1 But even back when I was on terrestrial radio, the way that you're taught it is that when your voice is on a microphone, it is you have sacred space that you're occupying in that person's life.

Speaker 1 You're their companion. And the way that I was taught to do radio was

Speaker 1 you want everyone to feel like you're sitting in the car seat next to them as they're stuck in traffic or as they're alone in their house doing something. That's how radio used to feel, right?

Speaker 1 It was the companionship. You were all kind of doing life together.

Speaker 1 You can have that similar feeling when you work with a guided meditation, and that does give you just a feeling of being more anchored and safe.

Speaker 1 But for those that are in a different meditation process, it's important to know what barriers are going to come up.

Speaker 1 This is what I explore very deeply in my book, which I was so excited to build practices in my book about this.

Speaker 1 Because when you start your meditation journey, I guarantee all the emotion is going to come up.

Speaker 1 Everything you have never allowed to be expressed, even stuff you didn't even have any idea you were suppressing. Now it's like, oh, God, there's space.
I'm safe. Let's come up.
Let's come up.

Speaker 1 I am here for your review. Will you look at me? And then you're just like, ah, meditation's hard.
Why did I start this? Pandora's box is open.

Speaker 1 It doesn't last. That's right.
It doesn't, doesn't last. I say the first step of awareness is ignorance.
The second step is like, it's like, it's worse than it was before.

Speaker 1 The third step is there's space between you and all of it. So just keep going.
There's space between you and all of it. And that's what you grow in a meditation practice that I think is done in a way

Speaker 1 you can do so many things with so many different modalities, but if you can do this with meditation, oh my goodness, you can do anything. So all that will come up.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You might be crying the whole time, laughing, angry, all the things. You'll be investigating all of it for a certain amount of time until you're done.
Then you do your meditation practice.

Speaker 1 And that's when you get to come into new states of space, awareness within your own body, noticing time differently, noticing your response differently.

Speaker 1 I think you get past that and then you get into move into a space where it's really about connecting you to higher consciousness. You're getting a lot of downloads.
You're getting your purpose work.

Speaker 1 You're getting your assignments, your mission, your, you know, your spontaneous flashes of genius. You're given your directions and your path.

Speaker 1 Then I think you get into a place where you get the bliss and the pleasure of it. And I think that's where I've landed in my practice, what I'm so grateful for.
And I'm glad that I stuck it out.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I've been meditating somewhere in between 10 and 15 years more seriously. It has been in the last,

Speaker 1 I would say, five years that I consistently can go about two hours a day.

Speaker 1 I used to deeply struggle for five minutes. Five minutes felt like a lifetime when I started.
I would get irritated. I would get restless.
I would get angry. I want to get sad.
I would get angry.

Speaker 1 I'd get so annoyed. And I'd then fight with myself about all the reasons why I was the one person who thought too many thoughts, why I was the one person who was just so busy.

Speaker 1 That's why it doesn't work for me. Everyone says it.
Everyone does it. Hundreds of millions of people feel this way.
It is not just you. You can push through it.
That's a barrier. You move through it.

Speaker 1 And I think now I'm at the place where

Speaker 1 meditation actually feels like fuel.

Speaker 1 It feels like food.

Speaker 1 It feels like joy. I close my eyes and I am so excited.
Like sometimes even in conversation, I have to be like, don't close your eyes because it'll feel too good. I'll stay in it too long.

Speaker 1 It feels good. It feels nourishing.
It feels pleasurable.

Speaker 1 And my hope for everyone that, you know, begins their journey with meditation is that they stick with it long enough no matter how long it takes you got time yeah if you got time to scroll you got time for this yeah my hope is for them to get there because when you're there

Speaker 1 that's when life really becomes about creation like that's when life really gets to become about

Speaker 1 so much more than you so much more about the divine interwoven fabric of why we're here with everyone at this time and how you can really meet your own needs and heighten and expand your creativity.

Speaker 1 So beautiful. And I just feel the work that you've done to embody it in your heart and your wisdom.
And I'm so grateful to have you in my world and even more so after this conversation.

Speaker 1 Thank you for having me. Yeah.
And I know my audience is going to want to stay connected. Talk to us about your book.
Talk to us about what you're up to. How do we stay in touch?

Speaker 1 So my book is called Living in Wisdom. And the book is all about getting out of your head and into your body.

Speaker 1 Stop Stop intellectualizing all the self-help books you've read up until this point, all the podcasts, even the loved ones like mine and this beautiful show. And start practicing.
Start practicing.

Speaker 1 Get out there. Get in practice.
My desire for this book was for it to really be a

Speaker 1 companion for people like me. people that intellectualized and people that have had not just one thing and not just friction, but a lot of hard things.
You've seen a lot. You've experienced a lot.

Speaker 1 You've had to surrender. You don't know why sometimes it seems like you get to be the witness to all of this and other people's lives, at least perceivably, seem different or lighter.

Speaker 1 I think sometimes that is true. Some people walk this earth.
They do see more and experience more in different and harder ways. There's a lot of, you know,

Speaker 1 possible reasons for that karma, you know, so many things. I don't know what your Pluto complex is.

Speaker 1 I got a tough one in my astrology, but you're, you're called to hold space differently and you're called to learn how to make your pain useful to you. And that's why I wrote this book.

Speaker 1 And that's really who I wrote this book for. And in it, I share a lot of my wisdom, my life experiences, and how I move through them.

Speaker 1 And all, I mean, I have lived a hundred people's lives in this life.

Speaker 1 I've had a lot of learnings from having really fascinating experiences in multiple careers, in moving through the world differently in my family and in healing generational trauma within my family line and all the things that it takes to be in that kind of a work and being a single mom and raising a boy and going through hard things, going through, you know, betrayals, going through divorce, going through,

Speaker 1 you know, failures of all different kinds. And life is still worth it.
Life is still beautiful. Life can still be so many things at once.

Speaker 1 In my hardest, I mean, hardest, darkest moments, I was also equally having some of the most successful moments of my entire career, made some of the, you know, the best economical jumps in my career.

Speaker 1 Also were having like

Speaker 1 absolute miracles unfold in my life within my family, within my friends, within, you know, meeting every hero I ever had and working with them or building relationships with them.

Speaker 1 And so both are there at once.

Speaker 1 And my hope is that this book actively teaches you, not just gives you permission, I don't want you to idealize it, actively gives you process for how to dance in this life with both grief and joy.

Speaker 1 See, my book, Living Wisdom, available everywhere, audio book two.

Speaker 1 Again, it really is about how to move in life with a grief that's constant, even if it's not your own trauma, but just existing on earth right now and how to still feel like life is enough and worth it in that.

Speaker 1 And I have a podcast called Deeply Well, which I would love to have you on.

Speaker 1 Hit me on Instagram, the website, and all the places. Yeah, we'll put all the links in the show notes here below.
Thank you for your heart. Thank you for your integrity living this work.

Speaker 1 It is such a gift to have you here and in my world. Thank you for your work.
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much for doing doing this work that changes the world, starting with yourself. It truly does make a difference.

Speaker 1 And if this podcast has supported you, one of the most impactful ways to help us reach more people is to simply press the follow button. It really does help us grow and we are so grateful.

Speaker 1 You could also leave a review on Apple or Spotify and take a quick screenshot and upload it at alyssenobriga.com forward slash podcast.

Speaker 1 And as a thank you gift, we'll send you one of the most impactful tools for transforming your fear into freedom so that you can step more fully into your potential.

Speaker 1 There is so much more magic ahead and I cannot cannot wait to share it with you.

Speaker 1 But for now, I just want to say thank you for being a living example of what it means to walk through the world with an open heart and mind.

Speaker 1 I am so grateful that you're here and I cannot wait to see you in the next episode.