Psychedelics, Spiritual Growth, and Masculine + Feminine Energy with Aubrey Marcus | EP 66

You know, there's a huge divine feminine movement, and I'm absolutely in love with the feminine and revere and worship the feminine. And I also have critiques.
What I see is, is there's this big movement to, I want to be the queen. Well, what does that really mean? I'm, you know, I know God has a bad connotation for a lot of people who've had it jammed down their throat and a lot of rules and things that didn't make sense.
You know, I started my life as an atheist, but in 25 years of plant medicine, I have no doubt. I don't believe in God.
I know God. So if you're living in the world and you're denying something that is true and the fundamental nature of that truth that moves in you as you, through you and beyond you, I don't think you can experience the real full spectrum of the healing.
There's going to be so much that you're going to leave off the table and your life just will not be nearly as rich. Is there something that was revealed to you in a session, in a journey that you're still integrating now? The deepest truths are the hardest to actually abide by.
Now, I have a formula to assess whether you're telling the truth or not. Truth barometer? Truth barometer.
So here's the formula. Welcome to the Healing and Human Potential podcast.
Today's conversation is packed with juicy topics like feminine and masculine dynamics, the power of psychedelics and self-discovery, as well as giving you practical strategies to work through resistance. You asked for this guest, and we have him here today, Aubrey Marcus, who's an entrepreneur

and author and the founder of Onnit.

We're going to explore deeper truths revealed around relationships, entrepreneurship, and

Aubrey shares some of his most profound lessons and insights that he's learned along the way.

Let's dive into this highly requested conversation.

I see you, Aubrey, as a man's man with the cigars and the weightlifting, the tattoos. And I see you as somebody who's deeply in touch with his feelings, has the courage to be vulnerable, which to me is just one expression of the healthy masculine.
And I'm curious, how did you open? How did you start developing your emotional mastery as a man? My mom. My mom has loved me unconditionally from the day I was born and same with my grandma.
And I, you know, you talk about blessings or privileges or whatever, but to have a mom that loves you like my mom loves me, it's indescribable what that'll do for a man. She also had a, youdeveloped masculine side of her own.
She was a professional tennis player, went to the semifinals of Wimbledon, lost to Billie Jean King that year. So she understands athletics.
She understands being fierce and the dedication needed to get better. But on the other side, no matter what, no matter where I went, what I did, how I felt, she just loved me literally unconditionally.
And that's a word that people throw around, but until you experience it, it's just a fiction. But I've really gotten to live that.
And that's allowed a lot of my own feminine side to flourish. Has that always been the case or did you need to develop more relationship with your emotions as a man.
I think it set me up in a good, with a good foundation. And then of course, all of the practices that I do, they unearth the truth of your feelings.
So I've been on the psychonautic medicine path for 20 hell, 25 years. And in those 25 years, whether it's breath work, which always brings the tears emotions, or whether it's, you know, ayahuasca or whether it's in the watchuma from the Shavin tradition or Bufo from the Siri tradition or whatever the great traditions I've been working with, these medicines really help open your heart and your feeling body because anything else is actually not who we are.
We are emotional beings. And there's a place where it's important, I think, for the masculine to be able to bracket those emotions.
Like if things are going awry, you have to be able to just take decisive action and then feel what's necessary later. Like if things come into like significant conflict, like I was attacked with my fiance at a time by four guys who surrounded my car.
And it's not time for me to be emotional. At that point, it's time for me to fight.
You know, I was walking across the street. This guy got hit by a truck and smashed his head on the pavement.
And it's not time for me to cry and be out of control. I had, you know, ripped off my shirt, tied it around his head, held him, had somebody call the ambulance.
Like you got to be able to do both. But then certain other times, you know, you just got to allow yourself to fully feel.
So I think that's the fully developed masculine is someone in the word I use for that is warrior poet. There's times to be a warrior, there's times to be a poet, and there's times you can be both.
But to develop both sides, I think that's the destiny of every man, really. Yeah.
And that's the full range. That's the healthy expansion.
And so for men, I think it's important to have examples of different men that are in touch with their feelings to really see that. But for guys that are either new to this work or just wanting to go deeper, but they're hitting up against their own resistance, what would you tell them? They're going to need to utilize one of these tools, you know, and there's, everybody calls them medicines, but they're really technologies and it doesn't require psychedelics.
So one thing I can unequivocally recommend breath work. Another thing I can unequivocally recommend ecstatic dance, unequivocally recommend sensory deprivation, float tanks.
Meditation is beautiful, but it's very hard to get into unless you know the reward and the state you're getting to because otherwise you just feel like you're not doing anything and you're not getting anywhere most of the time but if you can hone that craft you can also get there that way but the sensory deprivation tank really helps drop you into that meditative state and the breath work if you really send really send it, you're going to feel what needs to be felt. And we've guided breathwork and fit for service for six years.
And I've almost never seen a man, no matter how many tattoos and how tough they are, not really releasing a lot of tears. Yeah.
And then once you open one time, you start feeling lighter, more open hearted, present, alive. And then the reward says more.
That's it. Yeah.
And to have a real beautiful, healthy relationship where you are available to your emotions, it just gets more deep. So that's also the reward.
Yeah. Yeah, totally.
Yeah. I mean, and then, you know, other people would say, oh, you know, I was born a double Pisces and all of these different stars, star signals.
But I think that really, ultimately, I don't give that too much weight. And it could be true because I do represent some of those watery, the watery nature of my emotions.
But I think truly it's available to everybody. And you just got to feel it and feel the benefit of it and just understand how much more of life is available to you when you're able to tap into those more sensitive areas.
Yeah. And I think having examples helps other men say, oh, okay, that I can still, because there's going to be a variety of different types of healthy masculine, at least then to find those a tuning fork.
What's my authentic expression? Because maybe I've been trained to not feel, but as we start kind of thawing out some of those layers and seeing other examples, I think more men will be finding their way with it. Yeah.
I mean, if you go to life with armor, then you're not only preventing yourself from challenge, you're preventing yourself from bliss. It's a callus that goes over the entire sensory body.
So you're not going to be able to enjoy yourself and you're not going to be able to feel your emotions. So, you know, this idea of it's important to hold it, hold your armor.
Yeah. It's maybe important to be able to put up the shield every once in a while, but fundamentally, you know, all armor is not, it doesn't differentiate.
It's not like, Oh, I'm just not going to feel the bad thing, but I'm going to feel all the good things. It doesn't work that way.
You know, armor just prevents you from the feeling tone of life and prevents you from stepping into this universal love story that we're really in. It's so innocent, that armor.
It's just a protection mechanism. For sure.
Yeah. So then bringing even compassion with ourselves if we feel that protection mechanism come up.
And I think just on the planet, we're waking up to honoring the feminine and coming into more balanced ways of being. We have a long way to go, but it's happening.
And I see you as somebody who has reverence for the feminine. And now I hear through your mom, like, as soon as you say, my mom, like, I feel your love for her transmitted.
And so, thank you for doing that work. Thank your mom.
Like, I think more examples of this is important. How do you see the divine feminine? How do you hold their context that? You know, there's a huge divine feminine movement.
And obviously, I'm absolutely in love with the feminine and revere and worship the feminine. And I also have critiques of that movement.
And what I see is there's this big movement to, I want to be the queen. I want to be the queen.
Well, what does that really mean? You know, because there's Queen Elizabeth, and that was a king with a pussy. Right? Like, that's what that was.
That's why she didn't take a husband to rule with her, because she was the one ruling. And if you have two kings in the house, it's typically not going to work.
There's going to be a power struggle about who's leading the way. And you can have a way where you can flip and both can take that role at certain times.
But I think there's a conflation between queen and ruling queen, which is really a king. And so there's an aspect of the fully developed feminine, which is in maximum receptivity and is creating this atmosphere of love and peace and forgiveness and joy.
And then the masculine element actually leads through that, but requires the nourishment of the feminine. And it doesn't mean that the man has to be the king and the woman has to be the queen, but I think we need to disambiguate these words so that we actually understand what a queen is.
A king is there to be in service of the kingdom, including the queen, to be in absolute devotion and service. The queen is there to be in devotion to the king's service to all.
And so it works in this kind of bilateral way, but I think it's important to recognize that a queen just isn't a woman king. Yeah.
You know, that there's actually a difference. And it doesn't mean, again, like that you can't swap and play both sides and enjoy the polarity that way.
But I think there's more actual soft femininity available in the goddess and in the feminine empowerment movement. Like the most powerful, you know, the most powerful thing that I experience is the softest thing.
You know, when I can find the softest thing, then my whole body can relax and then I can heal and be restored in that, in that nature. So, you know, I think that's, that's a part of, there's so much beauty in what this is.
And I think just the understanding of what are you actually looking for? Are you looking to lead? Are you looking to have the kingship quality? It's beautiful if you are, but don't confuse yourself in thinking that that's what the queen archetype really is. I want to unpack this more because this is a new way of holding it for me.
And when you were talking about the softest thing, I just was seeing a drop of water on a rock over time creates a hole. Totally.
And I love the softness and the power in that softness and that love is dynamic and fierce and that's powerful. I want to unpack more because I'm thinking about leading is what I'm hearing is more of the masculine.
What are some other qualities? One way to describe this is circle and line. Okay.
So a line has telos and direction. It has a way, it has a direction that it's going.
A circle is all about the ever-present now, the infinite now, and the environment that you're in. So circles have this very egalitarian, no structure of leadership.
Everybody's voice is the same. There's so much beauty to the circle.
And the masculine quality is the line, which is saying, well, we don't want to just stay

in this feeling thing in a forever ayahuasca ceremony.

We want to actually move forward and integrate this into our life.

So the right relationship is some balance and where the masculine represents the line,

which is forward movement, and the feminine represents the circle.

Now, the shadow of the line is the line might not ever be feeling what's actually happening

in the moment, might not be attuned to what's happening in the circle, might be so focused on leadership that they've lost the qualities of the circle. And the circle, you know, the shadow of the circle is that you just stay in this feeling experience and you're not actually going anywhere.
You're just retracing your own trauma and your own feelings over and over and over again. But when you combine them, then it forms a spiral.
So a line and a circle combined form a spiral. So you're feeling always, but you're feeling in this ever escalating spiraling movement forwards.
I like that. And so is your, the way that you hold it is really the intention to develop the masculine and feminine within you or within everyone? Of course.
Okay. And then also find the ways that your relationship can accentuate that dance, right? Tell me more.
There's certain elements of like, where I will be more extremely polarized in the, where are we going? What are we doing? How do we chart this next path forward? And so I'll be in a relationship. If I'm super focused on that, then I need some more support within the dyad to be in the circle.
So in some ways you're saying that the relationship can support balance and harmony. Right.
It allows you to be, if you're all on your own, let's say you're all on your own. You need to have a really, really well-developed sense of both and be like almost in an equilibrium between your masculine and feminine for most of your life, because you need to be able to feel everything that's going on and you need to also be able to move forward.
So if you're alone, both of those have to be expressed in balance. If you're in a partnership, it can allow you to express one polarity more.
So the feminine could be more in the feeling tone of the circle. The masculine can be more in the line.
But together, holistically, you create balance in the dyad. So it actually allows you to express either more of your masculinity or more of your femininity.
I'm thinking about that's the relational component. And then there's also business.
How do you see that with more complexity? Say in my marriage, I have more of the feminine, but in my business, I'm leading more in my masculine. Like how does that also work with team structure? Yeah.
I mean, I think having well-developed, you know, capabilities on both sides, it's a big advantage because ultimately, I think a relationship should have an overarching mission that you're in together. What is your collective mission? I call this the whole mate level of relationship.
So, the role mate or the roles you play, the soul mate, the ability to see each other, The whole mate is sharing a shared vision and facing a shared horizon. And so ideally in my mind, in a relationship, you guys are facing the shared horizon and then having different roles in different ways that you actually are bringing about that shared vision.
And, but then you may have your own individual quests and visions, which will require masculinity so like for example vailana you know she has the freedom to be in her wild feminine most of the time because i can hold down the masculine qualities for the relationship and then sometimes when she's doing her series or doing something else she has to step into her masculine and lead a team and handle it. And I'm there to support in the background.
But oftentimes at that point, I'll step into the role of the queen, which is what do you need? Do you need a, do you need a help? Do you need some body work? Do you need some, you need a tea? Do you need some water? Like if there's a very present mission for either partner, if you have that flexibility, then you can step into their story and help them write their story. And I think that's the healthiest level of relationship.
But to just remember who's which role and not get confused. And it's fine to be both, but just understand which role is which and not get confused about what actually is being expressed at that time.
So really, if any of this that I'm offering is just clarification of the fundamental masculine and the fundamental feminine and how to use those energies to stay in balance and bring about the best relationship possible. Yeah, I've not thought of it in this way.
And I like that there's that shared we, the mission. And how do you really use that to support greater service, greater wholeness and contribution in the world?

Do you and Vi have a shared mission that you operate from?

Yeah.

It's super important.

And that shared mission is, first of all, to bring about what we believe, you know, from Charles Eisenstein's nomenclature, the more beautiful world our hearts know is possible, a place where everybody can be more free and more loving and more connected to God. And so how do we help bring that about? Well, Vailana has her sound.
I have my podcast. We have the, and then we're cumulatively together, you know, building temples, you know, that are like the old mystery schools, like the Lucidian Mysteries or the Oracle at Delphi or the Temple of Shavin or the Temple of the Hathors.
We're really focused on rebuilding these places where people can go to heal and experience what was always available in antiquity. You could make a pilgrimage to one of these temples, but these temples are now just ruins at best.
They don't still hold the, they can, especially if you go with Matthias, and you can access the old magic of the old temples. So, it's not like they don't still have the juice, they do, but they.
You know, this is they're not like accessible, except in the rarest occasions where you actually literally bribe the guards and they let you they turn the other way while you do some weird shit. Yeah.
But, you know, for the most part, I think that's another big shared vision. And so, you know, we were looking to bring those bring those ancient traditions back.
Beautiful. I love hearing that.
And I can see how that would call you forward as a couple to be in service so you don't unconsciously have that creative energy go inward and sabotage the relationship. Totally.
So that's beautiful. I'm going to take a lot from this and start feeling into my own marriage.
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What do you see the women play as a role that sabotages or limits the expression of the healthy masculine in partnership? Do you see anything, any of those dynamics play out just to help bring more awareness? For sure. I mean, I think there's, you'll see a lot of times where, and this can happen on both sides, but if there's any place where the feminine is kind of cutting off the masculine at the knees, you know, so they're actually trying to step into something, but there's a subtle undercutting gesture, a subtle undercutting joke that is, it's really an establishment of dominance in that place.
And if there's any of this power struggle where people are trying to establish dominance, it's not going to work. And it can also happen with the masculine.
The masculine can be intimidated by how powerful their partner is, and they can try to undermine that and squash it. And I've seen this play out in both directions.
And, you know, I think what's really at play there is a power struggle. And if you have a power struggle in your relationship, your relationship is going to have a lot of difficulty.
You know, if you're not both willing to serve each other without worrying about who's where the power lies, I think that's a, that's a challenge. And we, it's just become so taken for granted that there's going to be this, you know, power struggle or that somehow the feminine should always be the one with the power.
Like I was recently at an event and someone was introducing me and they were like, and of course, want to thank Violana. We all know who holds the pants in the family.
And I'm like, why do you say that? Yeah. Like, why is that the thing that do you feel like you have to say that? Because it's not okay for the masculine to be in power? Because you just, this is the trope that the woman always has to be in power? Well, of course not.
It doesn't make any sense. Sometimes the woman can be in power.
But that means she's expressing her masculine role, which denies her the ability, the full fruition of the feminine, which I also think has been, you know, unnecessarily undermined by culture. Like the message being given to women is you got to go out there and achieve and you got to be the boss babe and make your first hundred million and do all that.
But that's fine. Great.
Go for it. And I love that we have a world where you can, where it's fully possible.
You know, I just interviewed Cody Sanchez. She's freaking killing it.
Yeah. Is dominating, you know, the business and that's awesome you know but also you know in her own i don't i haven't spent time inside the relationship but her partner is a navy seal and like has has everything controlled like really unlock and so many elements of the masculine so really having you know having that deep reverence for each other and knowing who and how it's going to lead without making this assumption that the masculine needs to be stripped of all its power because the masculine is unsafe.
And we have a long history of the masculine being unsafe, so I get it. And there's a real rise and return of the sacred masculine whose whole entire focus is to protect the feminine and those who are innocent and those who don't have strength.
And that's like the full fruition of the masculinist. And we see that in all the heroes, you know, the firefighters that rush into a building, the first responders, you know, the soldiers granted the wars that the soldiers are pointed at.
I have a lot of questions about, you know, all these wars we've been in, but the heroic act itself, you know, they're fighting for, they're fighting for something greater than themselves and willing to put their lives on the line. And again, so can women.
Women can also be first responders and heroes, but this idea that the masculine is always dangerous and never safe, it's a really bad, it's a really bad trope that I think has extended into society. There's other tropes as well.
Like if a man is going to have sex with his wife, he's getting lucky. And if a woman is going to have sex with her husband, she's giving it up.
The fuck are we talking about? Is that really how we want to live where sex is a chore and it's a man is lucky to get it with his wife? Like, what is that saying about a relationship? But it's in every sitcom and it's in it's just so, oh, yeah, I'm going to get lucky tonight. Get lucky tonight.
The hell are we talking about? What kind of relationship is that? Yeah, it's there's some crazy stuff there that really needs to be updated. I think as you start waking up and healing and doing your own work, you see mainstream society and you see all the misunderstandings and how we got to be where we are.
I remember when I was starting to really do some deep work around what is the source of love and waking up to myself, essentially, all the love songs, I was like, this is insane. We project my source of love onto a partner and then lose that they evoked it in us, but it is what we are.
I love that you're poking at some things to help people just have a seed of reflection. And I also know that the masculine and feminine can look different inside everyone's composition.
We're going to have a different variety of that spectrum, and it's all healthy. And to do the healing work, I think, is really important.
But But I'm curious as you're talking, do you feel like it's important for men to get together, to do work together just as men or women just to do work as women in support of their healing path? I do. I think it's a, I think it's an important way because especially the thing about the thing about men, when any woman is present, there's, it's easy to become a little bit more performative.
And similarly, I don't know what it's like with women. I'm not a woman, so I can't say.
But there could be an element of performative nature when the masculine is present. It's a different dynamic.
There's a subtly different dynamic. Now, I think you can transcend that where you're actually super comfortable being, you know, radically vulnerable in front of the feminine.
But as like an opening stage before you're comfortable, I think doing the men's work, you know, is really important. And then once you're fully comfortable, whether it's men or women present, then I think it's actually more valuable to do that work, you know, together.
But so the way I look at it is it's a, it's a beginning stage to open up the levels of comfortability in your vulnerability and move beyond any kind of performative qualities that you're trying to show off for the other sex. Yeah.
Interesting. And we've had by on the podcast who I love your wife so much.
I know, she's the best.

I'm curious how she has helped you evolve as a man.

There's a lot of ways in which a partnership brings about, you know, something really beautiful in a relationship.

And, you know, Vi for me really unlocked levels of devotion and levels of like love that, of love that I hadn't been able to reach

before. And so, I really, I think what she offers is an opportunity for me to step into ever greater and ever deeper love.
And I think one of the other elements of this is what are the what are the technologies, the intimate erotic technologies that you're using to make sure that your eros, your sexing doesn't do what, you know, if you read Dr. Wednesday Martin's book, Untrue, you'll see all the graphs where actual sexual desire for a woman falls off a cliff after about two and a half years.
Oh, interesting. Yeah.
So the actual desire starts to fall off and men's desire starts to taper off a lot more slowly, but the graphs look different. And so, this is what happens naturally unless you actually learn the ability to find, you know, what Rebbe Gabbne would call the stranger in your partner.
So, it's like locating the stranger again, a new level of depth where you see each other with fresh eyes. And so these are the kind of tantric technologies that you can bring where you can meet each other at a whole new level of depth.
And so instead of going out and seeking novelty in an affair or getting in this perpetual, you know, serial monogamy thing where you're just there for the first limerence ride where you're getting to know somebody. And then once you reach that point, you're sick of them and then you break up and then you do it again.
But if you can actually apply some technology to that, you can go deeper and deeper and deeper. And, you know, I think that's one thing that Vi and I have really put a lot of focus on.
That's beautiful. That's interesting.
I was in a relationship for three years and I'm that I don't think the sexuality for me made that didn't make sense, but now I've been with my husband for 15, and I feel more attracted, more turned on, more intimately connected. But because we do probably some of the work around finding ourselves more deeply and to do the tantric work and role play and bring in the fun into it, the creativity.
In terms of your edges around relationship, have you found with Vi or anyone, is there a story that you can share that opened you to push your edge to go deeper vulnerably or to look at life in a new way? Well, I mean, I've always been pushing the edges, right? So I was very public about a polyamorous relationship that I had for about eight years with my former partner, Whitney Miller. And we decided to, after about a year and a half, we decided that we were going to open the relationship and be polyamorous because it made sense to me from, you know, both anthropological records that I'd looked at from Chris Ryan's book, Sex at Dawn.
I was like, oh, there was a different way that things can be and could be. And it feels right for my own heart, my heart that is like the sun and feels like it could love universally and I could fall in love with many people.
So, I went into that and, you know, I was the first to have another separate lover and I was like, this is great. And, you know, Whitney was like, this is terrible.
And I was like, what do you mean? This is great. And then I didn't have near the compassion that I should have because as soon as she took a lover, I went into like the most despondent jealousy.
and so you know that's been one of the big crucibles for me you know everybody wanted

to plaster this idea like oh aubrey the cuck cuck nor most despondent jealousy. And so, you know, that's been one of the big crucibles for me.

You know, everybody wanted to plaster this idea like, oh, Aubrey, the cuck,

cuck Norris over here, he's getting off on this. And it's like, I wish, man, I wish,

but it was, it's, it was hell. And I had to sit in the fire of that hell until I could actually

burn away the jealousy and understand that I'm not actually in competition with anybody in that level. I can compete on the basketball court, but other than that, nobody can be Aubrey Marcus and nobody can be whoever that other lover might be.
So there's no competition. We're our own unique self and our unique irreducible essence is what makes us attractive in the first place.
So it's really taught me to love and appreciate myself and just measure myself according to how much aubreyness i'm able to step into so you know that relationship kind of established a lot of that and then you know vi and i have discussed that we have uh also you know something of an unconventional relationship it's not polyamory but it's not it's not the traditional type of relationship. And it continually pushes the edges about what is possible.

And so, it's work.

It is work. It's beauty, and it's exciting, and it's challenging.
But if you go into that with the desire for growth, if evolution and the ability to transcend your own jealousy and understand your own unique irreducible essence and really trust that. If you go in with that mindset, it can be really, really a valuable tool for growth and also to experience the beauty of life.
Yeah, it's beautiful. I hear you sort of using everyday life for greater healing and awakening.
What do you feel is the role of spirituality with healing either the personal or the collective you know spirituality i i don't think is really optional so i don't i think we've made this like oh yeah you can or you can't but god is god is god is Like this is this is something I know to be true. So to just ignore that God is, God is, God is.
Like, this is something I know to be true. So, to just ignore that God is, call it great spirit, call it the universe, call it the Tao, call it, you know, the Buddha, call it the Christ, whatever you want to call it.
But, you know, I know God has a bad connotation for a lot of people who have had it jammed down their throat and a lot of rules and things that didn't make sense. You know, I started my life as an atheist, but in 25 years of plant medicine, I have no doubt.
I don't believe in God. I know God.
It's not a question. So if you're living in the world and you're denying something that is true and the fundamental nature of that truth that moves in you as you, through you and beyond you, I don't think you can experience the real full spectrum of the healing.
Sure, you can do some psychological trauma work, etc. But until I believe you're able to connect with spirit, with God, there's going to be so much that you're going to leave off the table, and your life just will not be nearly as rich.
Yeah. I had a mentor say, use the word God until it no longer has trigger charge.
Yeah. I thought that was helpful.
I know you've been very open about your work with psychedelics. My dad's a shaman, so I grew up since I was 14 in that world.
He sold his financial advising firm at 50 and went shamanic and now has a retreat center up in Mount Shasta. And since I was 14, that's been some of my world.
And I know that you talk a lot about psychedelics. Was there a breakthrough that helped you see life more beautifully for yourself or humanity through psychedelics? I mean, there's been hundreds.
I bet. There's been hundreds.
It started with my very first one. That was 18 years old.
And my dad- Your first one was 18. Yeah.
Wow. wow i'm 43 now so that's why it's 25 years so i went to see a shaman in new mexico i was terrified an atheist yeah but i trusted my dad and i was curious enough i always had a deep curiosity so you know i said yes and i was like all right i'm gonna do this and i was so scared i remember i grabbed a worn river rock from uh

from a pathway and i brought it and i was like as long as i hold this rock i'll know that i'm still

here and it was a combination of mdma and a psilocybin t and so i experienced this guided by a shaman she wouldn't call herself a shaman more of a sitter but really she you know, shamanic in her ability to hold the space.

And I experienced my body evaporate. And the only word that I could use for what remained was my soul.
And so I experienced my soul self, my higher self, my God self. I experienced that for the first time.
And I remember staying up, you know, being warmed by a fire. I was in a small small small little hut in the in the mountains north of new mexico and just writing and writing and writing and like re-understanding the entire paradigm of what what is this crazy existence that we have and then subsequently through you know i don't know some 45 ayahuasca experiences iboga experiences watchuma experiences dmt experiences buffo experiences like all of the great tons of mushroom experiences all of these different traditions guided by some of the very best in the world it's unlocked new ways to look at life and then i combine that with you know sitting down with the mystics and those who really understand things from their traditional lens.
So whether it's the Tibetan Buddhist tradition or currently I'm deep in study with the wisdom of Solomon and understanding those codes from there, deep reverence for the Taoist codes. So just synthesizing all of the best and actually recognizing there's so much more to understand and available there in these sacred texts and traditions when you can feel it for yourself.
18. 18.
Your dad invites you in to do a ceremony. What a gift.
Was he exposed to this work? Yeah, he started. So he was in a battle his whole life, and he had some real darkness that was haunting him and so he

would he tried everything to try and you know to try and release that darkness that was that was hunting him and haunting him and taunting him he went into a modality called primal therapy and he had this big padded room and he would just go in there and yell and scream and but that didn't really work for him it brought a lot of the the anger to the surface, but it didn't transmute it in the full way. So, he moved from that and then he started working with actually the legendary Stan Groff.
And through Stan Groff, he did the holotropic breath work, which helped him a lot. But then there's the next level, which is the psychedelic work.
And then so, through that kind of underground railroad of shamans that have always been

available, he started working with her and then sent me on that journey myself. It's crazy.
Our dads have a very similar, we have, there's a similar thread as well, because I was 14, you were 18. My dad did, Stan Groff did some of that work, then went into psychedelics, shamans, like there's some parallels there.
And what a gift to have a parent that can be honest about their path to invite you into something deeper. My whole family had a spiritual awakening at the same time, and we weren't talking to each other about it.
And for me, it was just praying to the moon and playing guitar and questioning everything. But to have a parent that nurtures that and that steers you in the direction of a deeper truth, I think is such a gift.
Totally. I'm curious, is there something that was revealed to you in a session, in a journey, that you're still integrating now? The deepest truths are the hardest to actually abide by.
And so things get actually much simpler, but much more difficult on the path. So you take, you know, Ram Dass's teacher, Maharaj, you take him and what was his advice? Love everyone, tell the truth.

yeah okay like that's something that you'll spend your whole lifetime trying to actually live by how can you really love love everyone without beyond the judgment that doesn't mean

giving up your discernment but knowing that even beyond the discernment, even if you're creating a boundary, that you still love everybody outside that boundary. So, can you really love, and as Christ said, love your enemy and love your neighbor as yourself? Because it's a recognition that that brother or sister is yourself just living a different life yeah so that is something that's a continual message that's like okay all right i'll continue to work towards that and then tell the truth oh okay well you know there's levels of truth you know because sometimes you may be telling the truth but it's actually not the truth because you have so much you can't see that's in your own shadow.
And so to actually tell the truth is something that is also very difficult. Now I have a formula to assess whether you're telling the truth or not.
Truth barometer? Truth barometer. So here's the formula.
It's honesty, which gets a total of 50 points. And so the goal is to get to a hundred.
So if you to bring it you're going to bring it to 100 right so 100% yeah so honesty is a score out of 50 points so how honest are you love how loving are you that's another 50 points because I don't think you can divorce truth from love because love truth and God are actually synonyms as far as I've come to know it. So, you get 50 total points of love.
So, you add those together in a bracket, and then you multiply it by your percentage of certainty. How certain are you that that love was at maximum? How certain are you that that honesty was at maximum? And then you get a number.
So, maybe you were, you know, 45 45 out of 50 honest you kind of said everything but not exactly so you get 45 and then your love you're like it was pretty loving it was 40 so you're at you know 85 and then oh man i don't know i don't know how much i don't know so maybe my percentage of of the of certainty is you know 80 you know so then Then you end up with some number and like, all right, well, I was about 65% true. I was at 65 out of 100 points.
So it's just, but it's a model. And of course, you're just estimating this based upon your own assessment, but to understand that it's difficult, it's difficult to tell the truth, you know, and you can't divorce.
And so, to be in truth is to be in love, and then to also be honest, and then to recognize our own fallibility and our own levels of ignorance of that which we don't know, and how certain we actually are. Yeah.
Because a lot of my path has been questioning everything. The certainty, it's like a question I'll ask myself is, how much would I be willing to bet somebody's life that I loved on the certainty of that idea? And it's always not.
And so I come back to not knowing anything. But I love, in some ways, it's like creating a system, a metric system, to ground the evolution

of us aligning ego with essence. Because the truth of us is loving already, and our ego sometimes has barriers to seeing that and recognizing and owning it.
So, I hear, love everyone, and I love the projection work, you know, like really seeing everyone as a mirror and tell the truth. There's a woman who invited me to do the truth project, which was like 30 days speaking radical truth to everyone.
And that was confronting. And I think of myself as somebody very honest.
And I think I need to restart it, because if you even have a slightest white lie, you've got to call yourself back into truth. So, this has inspired me to do that again.
I think it's the time. I think this is the era of honesty.
That's right. I really think this is time.
We've gone through a period of so much social pressure, where if you have a dissonant opinion to the public and to the technocratic overlords, you could get your accounts removed, your posts removed, descheduled, fact-checked, all of this kind of censorship, which taught us internally to censor our opinions and feelings. And I think, you know, we're entering a world in which we're going to be free to express, express honestly.
And I think this is going to be, you know, this is what I see is the, is, is our own Excalibur. It's our sword.
It's the sword of, of truth and love truth and love and I really feel like you know one of the places that I can step into is to really try to lead by example there and just get to full honesty yeah and recognize the difference of when I'm being Aubrey or when I'm playing Aubrey yeah you know because it's so easy to play the character of yourself yeah and then you have to look back and was like wait what was I what was I doing? Was that really me? Or was I just playing Aubrey? Yeah. For me, I love that.
And I have a compassionate lens for the part of me that was scared, that was pretending, creating that mask. But I would rather somebody's truth over a lie any day, doesn't matter what it is.
I want to know what's true. And I feel like there's a deeper intimacy and connection that comes from that.
It's the only way to intimacy and connection. Let's say you're projecting an avatar.
Well, somebody may fall in love with that avatar, but guess what? You're not going to feel it because you're not the avatar. So you may get somebody to love a projection of you, but you'll never feel it.
That's right. So the intimacy is never going to be there.
So particularly in your romantic partnerships, like being able to share everything and have that held by your partner, that's really what's going to allow the crucible of transformation to occur. It's like, how honest can you be? And the more honest you are, you know, the more intimate you'll become.
And with the right tools and ways to communicate. Yeah.
I want to shift the direction a little bit because I know you've had a lot of success with your work and I'm sure there's behind the scenes of some losses, wins and losses. What was one of the most challenging but rewarding parts of your entrepreneurial journey? It's all challenging.
You know, it's all challenging. I think if I look back, what would I have done different is I would have enjoyed the process a little bit more.
You can get so focused on the goal and the outcome and so afraid of the success that you're experiencing, afraid of it going away. I woke up every morning wondering how, and part of this is the function of a ceo right is to be looking outside for the dangers

that may come but i was so focused on looking at the dangers that i'd hardly spent the appropriate amount of time being in the joy of actually doing what i loved and creating that company on it which was an expression of who i really was at least on one vector in in the total human optimization and, you know, kind of category.

So, you know, and you're gonna have to weather

a lot of storms, you're gonna have to believe in yourself, you're gonna have you're gonna have to stand up to people who, you know, don't, who don't see what you see, and then also listen to people who have wise advice. So, you know, I think I learned a lot through my experience in building on it from 2011 to 2021 when we sold, you know, had a huge success.
And then I got way too cocky and thought I had the Midas touch and I could do anything. And, you know, I've experienced a lot of losses since then.
But I've learned a lot from all of those. And so, you know, as I go into this next wave of ventures, there's both a deep humility, but also still having that kind of innocent and pure audacity and vision to say, like, I see what's possible here.
And there's something really great that's possible. I love that you even took the silver lining right after selling on it and having some of the humility come, because that helps come back into balance.
So the way that you're even orienting and framing it, I think, is helpful for people to be like, okay, I can have a healthy relationship with success and failure. They don't define me, but they're here as gifts, as offerings.
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, one of the things that people will say is that everything happens for a reason.
I think that's only true if you give everything that happens a reason. That's right.
Yeah. You know, so it's like, it's not like, oh yeah, this is exactly how it was supposed to be.
No, maybe not. Maybe you made it, maybe you made a dumb choice and you could have done better, you know, like, but you didn't.
Yes. So you, so now what's the lesson you can learn? So it's, it's, uh, you know, it's, it's interesting.
It's both, It's a bit of a paradox. Hafiz said, wherever you are right now, God circled that place on a map for you.
And if you believe that, then it's true. Because if you believe that, then you're like, okay, what can I do from this position that I'm in? Because that's the choice that we have.
Can't go back in the past and change anything. But if you say right here where I am, this is where I'm supposed to be.
And now let's see where I can go from here. Yeah.
It's like choosing to use everything for your growth and healing. I look at life that way, relationships and business.
But with business, I think of like, as we keep growing ourselves, we're going to hit up against resistance. And so we want to grow with more grace.
We have to learn how to dance with resistance. And one thing that I found really helpful is to support the defense.
So, like, for example, somebody comes to see me, they want to help growing their business, but they're afraid of being seen. They've got this push-pull going on.
Instead of trying to resist that, it's just offering ourselves compassion. So, maybe there's a part of them that wants to hide, like like letting them hide for just two minutes, let part of them to feel safe because love embraces and welcomes all of it.
And as that's integrated, it no longer takes power and then we can grow, right? We can take the lead or like the example of imagine that my hand was a piece of paper and resistance is my fist. It's kind of like a keto.
If I punch, there's no hurt because it just moves through. But if I resist, if I'm defensive and there's a punch, that moment of impact is what hurts.
And so with resistance and your ability to take life and learn from all of it, what have you found as practices, like go-to habits to support moving through resistance within yourself when it comes up? Well, I think you have to banish the shame that you have. So there's a difference between guilt and shame.
So guilt is the recognition that you did something wrong, that you did something that you could have done better. You weren't compassionate in this instant.
You allowed your emotions to get the better. You weren't kind.
You loving you you know you got selfish or greedy you were dishonest you can i think there's the guilt in those experiences can be healthy because it's a recognition of damn i could have done better but shame is not that you did something bad it's that you are bad oh i am bad and then if you are bad you can't you can't hold that yeah you can't hold that a human being can't hold the feeling of them being bad so they'll put the shame in the shadow they'll put that thing in the shadow so it'll be all justifications it'll be like well that person deserved it or well I was so stressed or well I was but if you're able actually to love yourself love yourself no matter what allow yourself to repair what you're guilty for and say like, hey, I'm so sorry. Like I could have done that way better.
But that prevents you from getting into this place of shame where you think that you're really a bad person. And that's something that's unable to hold.
And that's what creates and expands the shadow that which you cannot see. Shame is like the blanket over the sun.
And so, if you're able to love yourself and acknowledge

when you're off course or wrong, and then repair whatever you need to repair, then you can really move forward in your evolution in a big way. And for the coaches out there, one of the greatest gifts you can give is to humanize yourself and not pretend that you got it all figured out.
just be like, hey, you know, me too. You know, I remember I was in a deep psychedelic journey and I experienced the spirit of Yeshua who came there and just, I just felt Yeshua's presence there.
And I just started expressing all of the challenges, all of everything that it was like, I don't know, some confessionary energy just moved through me. And I was expressing all of these things.
And Yeshua was just there in my vision space, just patiently listening. And then he just looks at me and he goes, me too.
And I was just like, tears and tears and tears. And then there was nothing else to say.
There's nothing else to say. And it was like one of the most profound experiences, like me too.
And when we can do that, it's also the wisdom of the Hawaiian kahunas and the Ho'oponopono, where whatever you see in another, you can locate that thing in yourself and then actually work to heal that thing in yourself, to actually heal that in the person that you're with. So these deeper mystical traditions and truths, a lot of them are pointing to this radical honesty with yourself and just acknowledging, you know, like.
And I think, you know, for better or worse, I've experienced a lot of the different, you know, challenges. I've experienced jealousy and I've experienced rage.
I've experienced addiction. I've experienced a lot lot of these things and i'm comfortable talking about them because i'm not the person i was when i experienced those things i'm the person who grew from those experiences so allowing yourself to be almost reborn anew you know another one of my favorite quotes from heraclitus no person steps in the same river twice because it's not the same river

and not the same person. And so just allowing yourself to be free, not shackled by who you

have been, but to step into this new life that you are in. Yeah.
I really hear separating who

you are with what you do. So there's no identity in it and just giving yourself compassion,

like self-compassion and to know that we're all in it together. There's no idea of perfection.
But that love that embraces, I think that's the same. We've kind of said it in the same way, like that when resistance comes up, like the love that says yes to all of it is what settles it.
and not to do it with that agenda because then it actually doesn't feel fully accepted. It's like, I'm going to love it so that it goes away.
But it's just this humility of like, okay, that's exactly where I'm at. And it doesn't mean anything about me.
Yeah. And I think you can also say, that's exactly where I was.
Yeah. You know, I'm not what I did.
Yeah. At some level, you are what you do.
Like, you are what you repeatedly do. But you're not what you repeatedly did.
You can change that at any point in time. The paradox.
And that's the paradox. So, like, whatever it was, it's worthy of love, and you can do better, too.
And you can still be on that quest of, you know, evolution and transformation, where you'll be capable of doing more and more beautiful things. So it's not that you're completely divorced from your being and becoming and what you are and what you do.
That is a part of you, but you're not what you did, not if you're growing, not if you're transforming. And this possibility of transformation, I think, is at the core of any, has to be at the core of any coach or anybody in any relationship that you hold out the possibility for transformation and you see that transformation in the person so if you're able to see not there not to freeze them in the difficult moments their moments of failure or fault i mean i think we do that in relationship too it's like somebody does something that you know really hurt you you can freeze them in.
Oh, that's the type of person they are. Well, that's something that happened in the past that they did, but there's a possibility of transformation.
And I think that's even with our whole penal system, like the way that our whole justice system is arranged. It's more like, yes, all right, potentially there's consequences to the actions, but the goal should be, how do we transform? How do we rally behind and transform those individuals so that when they leave prison and when they're leaving the punishment that they received, that they can actually grow and that we give them an opportunity to grow.
We give them that benefit of the doubt. And sometimes you can't.
Sometimes things are too deep. You have have a you know a pedophilic nature you can't just say like and just send them into a box for a couple years without any deep therapy and let them go expect it to be different that's that's silly so i think we need to just be real honest with what we're doing to help people transform that's a great point and i very much align with that.
But the shame is what repeats the cycle of addiction, of any type of unhealthy behavior. That's not actually the problem.
There's something deeply rooted in the addiction, or whatever the expression of that is, is the result, not the root. And so, really helping let go of the shame, forgiving ourselves, being in community that, and having therapy and really starting to integrate into the world and being of service.
I think I just want to double click. I'm a stand for that.
And I think more of us, the micro and macro, as we start to experience that with inside of ourselves, we can see how it can shift in our government, in our world, but through that love. And yes, there's choices and consequences, but who they are is not bad.
Maybe their behavior was bad and there's consequences to that. But to really help them integrate in society takes love and takes healing work.
Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things that I've also come to know in my own, you know, 25 years of experiential spirituality is there are dark forces in us, as us, through us, and beyond us just as the divine forces.
and these dark forces are both us and not us and they can seduce us and capture us

you know in many many ways. And to be aware, I call this force anti you.
So, in the highest, in the highest level, and there's lots of, lots of names from lots of traditions. Steven Pressfield, the great author, wrote it and called it Resistance with a capital R.
Phil Stutz, the psychiatrist, calls it Pardex. The Kabbalists call it Citra Acra, you know, the Toltecs call it the parasite or the predator, you know, there's this, Pain Body Eckhart Tolle.
Yeah, there's these, we all have this idea, but I don't think we give it enough credit that there's a force that will try to pull against our actualization. And the closer you are to the actualization, the closer you are to the candle, the greater the shadow that's cast, the greater the energy that's pulling you, pulling you away.
There's a quote from Virgil, and if you'll pardon me opening my phone, because I don't have it fully memorized yet, because I just learned it. The gates of hell are open night and day, smooth the descent, and easy is the way.
But to return and view the cheerful skies they're the task the mighty labor lies so there's there's forces that'll try and seduce you into a darker path and to just be aware that there's an opponent in this game of life and you know you'll find it in yourself but you'll find it outside of yourself as well and if you take that appropriately, it's like Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, they were opponents, but they made each other better. It's like if you take that, okay, like I see you, I see you, devil, I see you, anti-you, and we're going to contest.
And if I take that attitude, you will help bring out the best in me. And that's why this force exists.
The contrast. Yeah, the contrast to help us grow.
You know, it's the iron that sharpens iron. Yeah, nothing to be afraid of.
Because I think that if somebody already hear that, they might get fearful. And yet, when we're in fear, we're giving our energy to something that doesn't have as much power.
And that's one of the great tricks. The great tricks of the dark forces is to try and convince you that it's more powerful than you are.
But it's not. God is way more powerful.
Love is way more powerful. Nothing can touch.
Nothing can touch that energy. So if you really trust that, you're going to be safe wherever you go.
Beautiful. One thought that you brought up that I heard was talking about just in society, we have this unconscious belief that there's going to be a moment when we arrive in our life somewhere where it's going to be enough.
And I think a lot of people put that, they project that onto money, thinking, okay, finally, when I arrive there, thinking that we are going to lack our way into abundance, but this like, when I get there, mentality just gets, there's like a moving target and that filter gets projected from one goal to another. And I even think this unconscious belief gets projected onto spirituality.
Like there's finally going to be a moment where I arrive, like enlightenment. I'm wondering if there's an area in your life where you've sort of woken up out of that misunderstanding.
And if there's an area you're still combing through. Yeah.
I mean, I think it's always there's always more yeah there's always more i remember so you know i i sold on it and you know got a huge huge payout like ridiculous you know just looked at my bank account one day and was like oh my god like this is a crazy amount of money and the interesting thing is that I immediately, because there was a sense of scarcity, actually, that I fought with and dealt with, but it was still present. Even in that moment of having all of this money, it still didn't feel like it was like I was going to be safe and I was going to be enough.
So I started acting out of fear even then and out of scarcity even then. And there's studies that show that no matter how wealthy a person is, they don't actually feel safe.
They always say, if I just had 30% more money, I would be safe. So whether they're 10 million, 100 million, a billion, there's some way in which it's not enough because the mind plays those tricks.
But if you can actually learn that wherever you are, whatever you have is enough. And it does, it applies to spirituality and applies to money, but really this is an attitude thing.
And then the abundance that you hold will actually facilitate the growth and the ability to steward more. But that was a key moment for me when I'm looking back and looking back and being like, wow, like, wow, what was that? You know? It's a mindset.
Yeah, because the safety or the feeling of, will I be okay, is more of an inner game. And we've been conditioned through society to think something outside of partnership, an amount of money, health goal will then finally make us enough.
And I think for me, the work that I've done is just to really welcome that part of me that has a misunderstanding that safety is anywhere other than right here. And to really question the ideas that I've been conditioned to believe has been really powerful.
I'm wondering if there's, just in closing, a time where you felt broken, but that experience helped you serve others more deeply because of it. Every time I've been broken, it's helped me serve others more.
You know, when I found myself in the throes of addiction, now I understand anybody who's an addict. If I found myself in the throes of jealousy, now I understand anybody who's jealous.
If I found myself in the depths of despair and depression and hopelessness, now I understand how I can support people in despair and depression and hopelessness. And, you know, so all of these experiences that you have can then allow you to connect with somebody and be, you know, imitatio Christi.
like the same thing that Yeshua said to me, I can do my best to imitate that no matter what someone's going through and say like, yeah, me too. Maybe not specifically, you know, maybe I didn't experience the same trauma or the sexual abuse or what it is, but I've experienced enough that I can at the very least imagine what you're going through.
But in some specific cases, I've actually already been through it. And there will be other people, let's say it is sexual abuse, like the people who've actually experienced that, that's going to be the best person to guide whoever that is through that process.
So, you know, I'm probably not the best person to guide through that because I haven't experienced it. And, you know, God willing, I never will on either side.
So in this, in this, I think there's, there's a great gift that's hidden in the, in the curse, you know? And I think if you have that attitude, the stoic attitude, the attitude of a warrior, which is someone who's willing to actually, you know, grow from the experience, it can really help you connect to whoever it is you're here to help. And I love that you speak to that because I think there's a lot of people that are called to be of service and they think, oh, I went through a divorce or I had an addiction and how can I help other people? But really that is their resume, them going through it, them walking the path.
I would rather have somebody hold space for me that is willing to meet their shadow and have their life as their resume, that they can have compassion and greater serve others because of it. Yeah.
I mean, it's something that's so obvious. Imagine you were going to war, like actual war, and you have two different people who are going to be your leaders.
One's fresh out of West Point, never seen of battle but knows all the strategy and tactics another is some grizzled veteran who's just been in the fight you know can wear wears all the scars you know this is where the shrapnel hit me this is where the bullet hit me this is where my tank got blown up and this is where like you're going to trust that person who's been in the shit rather than someone who's read books about it. Same with business.
There's a lot of people who have high degrees of education and MBAs and have studied these things, but I'd much rather trust someone who's actually been in the game and taken the wins and taken the losses because there's just something that you get from experience that you can't get entirely from reading about it. Yeah.
And you just want to be a few steps ahead of whoever you're serving. Yeah, that's it.
And there's always going to be some level of this idea of imposter syndrome is something that prevents people like, well, I had won't have the, of course, if you're pushing your own edges, if you're actually stepping into even greater, you're going to be in somewhat unknown territory, but it's like, take the leap, salt the mortality, like leap into the void and offer the best you can, but with humility. And that's going to help people more than anything.
100%. I feel your warrior.
I feel your poet. I feel a deeper sense of authenticity in your presence, even just as I connect with you.
So thank you for this gift. And I know my audience is going to want to stay connected.
Tell us about what you're up to. Tell us how they stay connected.
Yeah, for sure. It's such an exciting like period right now.
So fit for service is coming to a close. So that's no longer available.
I'm starting a new group called the round table, which is, uh, you know, there'll be some information out there, but it's going to be a kind of different orientation. Um, but there'll be some information if you're curious and those for people who really have a deep desire and the ability to impact the world in a significant way.
When we all impact the world, it doesn't mean that just because you have greater influence, it means you're less important than another person. But in this container, it's about how do we really move culture in the biggest, most dramatic way possible.
So, people who want to play big yeah and that's called the round table coming soon i got a new poetry book my first one what coming out called love to the seventh power so that's going to be out in uh in january so pre-sales will come up soon but keep a lookout for love to the seventh power and if you want to just track everything i'm doing you can just follow me on Instagram at Aubrey Marcus. Um, and then my big book, which feels like my opus, even though I wrote a New York times bestselling book already, this book, I feel like is so far, you know, the greatest contribution that I can make.
And it's called you versus anti you, and that'll be out. Um, you know, all things go well in late 2025.
I cannot wait to dive in. Thank you, Aubrey.
Thank you for the work that you do. And thank you for the embodiment of the man that you are in this world.
Thank you for seeing me, sis. Yeah.
It's been great to get to know you more. Same.
Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the world, starting with yourself. It truly does make a difference.
And if you're finding value in this podcast, a cost free way way to support us is by leaving an up to five-star review. It does mean the world to us.
And as a thank you gift, we're going to send you one of the most powerful tools that you will ever discover. You're going to get behind the scenes access, showing you how to live into your full potential without letting fear hold you back from stepping into your dreams.
Just head over to Apple Podcast or Spotify and leave a review now. You can take a screenshot before hitting submit and then go to alistanobriga.com forward slash podcast to upload it.
And make sure to have your automatic downloads turned on wherever you listen so you don't miss any of the upcoming episodes. I have so much magic I can't wait to share with you.
And you can find all this information in the show notes below. But lastly, if you're on Instagram, I love connecting and hearing from you.
So come on

over and say hello. I'm at Alyssa Nobriga.
Thank you again for being here. I cannot wait to share

more with you.