#51 The Elliotts

Transcript

Speaker 1 What? I'm trying to remember. Do you have any celebrity impressions that you do? No.
Didn't you used to do Celine Dion?

Speaker 1 No, I didn't do Karen. You used to do that, the theme song to the Titanic.

Speaker 1 No, that was Karen. Karen used to sing that song? Karen does sing that song.
Does she have a nice voice? No. Because guess who I have on the other line? Karen?

Speaker 1 Did that scare you? It did get me a little nervous. Did it not make you feel alive?

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 a little scared. A little scared.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 She doesn't have a nice voice. I mean, she can't.
Oh, wait, one second. She's back on the line.
It's Karen.

Speaker 1 Oh, Jackie. How can you say that about my singing?

Speaker 1 From Gimlet Media, I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode, the Elliotts.

Speaker 1 Right after the break.

Speaker 2 This is an iHeart podcast.

Speaker 6 In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster, and level up every tool in their arsenal.

Speaker 10 T-Mobile knows all about that.

Speaker 10 They're now the best network, according to the experts at UCLA Speed Test, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage.

Speaker 10 That's your business, Supercharged.

Speaker 18 Learn more at supermobile.com.

Speaker 3 Seamless coverage with compatible devices in most outdoor areas in the U.S.

Speaker 20 where you can see the sky.

Speaker 21 Best business plan based on a combination of advanced network performance, coverage layers, and security features.

Speaker 16 Best network based on analysis by OOCHLA of Speed Test Intelligence Data 1H 2025.

Speaker 22 This is Malcolm Glaubwell from Medal of Honor Stories of Courage. This message is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union.

Speaker 22 As a credit union dedicated to serving all veterans, active duty, and their families, Navy Federal knows that during the holiday season, every little bit counts.

Speaker 22 That's why, for a limited time, you could earn a $250 cash bonus when you spend $2,500 on the cash rewards and cash rewards plus cards in the first 90 days.

Speaker 24 Give joy, get joy.

Speaker 22 Join now at NavyFederal.org. Navy Federal Credit Union.
Navy Federal is insured by NCUA. Visit NavyFederal.org/slash cashrewards for details.
Cashback terms and conditions apply.

Speaker 22 Offer ends January 1st, 2026.

Speaker 25 This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something.

Speaker 29 Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea or OSA in adults with obesity?

Speaker 33 They may be happening to you without you knowing.

Speaker 39 If anyone has ever said you snored loudly or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability, and concentration issues, it may be due to OSA.

Speaker 38 OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation.

Speaker 49 Learn more at don'tsleeponosa.com.

Speaker 50 This information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company.

Speaker 1 I get a lot of emails from people looking for help, but Dylan's stood out. Dear Jonathan, it read, I have a big one for you, the heaviest weight yet.

Speaker 1 Dylan's email was over the top, clickbaity even. Hi, Dylan.
How are you? Nice to meet you, Jonathan. But who among us is inured to the lure of clickbait?

Speaker 1 Dylan Elliott lives in Dublin and the story he tells me, you'll have to hear to believe.

Speaker 1 Dylan says that when he and his family get together, their favorite thing to do is share stories of their misfortune.

Speaker 1 Mysterious ailments and plumbing disasters, near-drownings and dental procedures gone terribly awry.

Speaker 1 They always come away from these sessions wondering the same thing: how can one family have so much bad luck? So, a few years ago,

Speaker 1 I was at a large family gathering. Dylan says that at a recent family wedding, he and his brothers were going around the table enumerating their woes as usual

Speaker 1 when their father suddenly interrupted them. And then, my dad came out and said, Well, they don't know about the curse, the Elliott curse.

Speaker 1 Dylan and his brothers looked at each other. What Elliot curse? They'd never heard of such a thing.
And so their father offered what would prove to be a unifying theory of their terrible luck.

Speaker 1 He began at the beginning.

Speaker 1 The very beginning is 1525.

Speaker 1 About 500 years ago, Scotland and England were at war over the territory along their border. The people who lived along these borderlands were hardest hit.

Speaker 1 And so they were left in this nomadic position where the only living they could make was by going back and forth across the border and thieving.

Speaker 1 Thieving and pillaging and maiming as well as murdering.

Speaker 1 What they had to be as a culture was extremely friendly, but also really murdery because like if you've got to be moving from area to area, you have to be very open to people because there could be trades going on.

Speaker 1 But if they wrong you, you've got to kill them immediately.

Speaker 1 And these people, these friendly, murdery people who lived along the border, were called border reavers.

Speaker 1 You say reavers?

Speaker 1 Yeah, reavers. What are those?

Speaker 1 It's kind of like the exact opposite of a weaver. So where weavers make clothes, reavers were kind of like murderers.
Wait, weavers make clothes, but reavers are murderers? Yes.

Speaker 1 Which technically isn't the opposite of making clothes. It's quite far away, though, in fairness.
It is. It is.
But probably the opposite of making clothes would be like maybe ripping up clothes.

Speaker 1 And stealing, I guess. Yeah, again, not necessarily the opposite, but I get it.
Yeah, it's the other end of the spectrum.

Speaker 1 Sorry.

Speaker 1 Thank you. That's the opposite of a curse, by the way.
To bring it back to opposites.

Speaker 1 Dylan says there were a number of Reaver family clans, but one of the biggest, most notorious, least weavery, and most murdery of all were the Elliots.

Speaker 1 And that's you, you're Dylan Elliot.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 In 1525, the then Archbishop of Glasgow, desperate to deter the Reavers, placed a curse on them, the aforementioned Elliot curse. Should I read the curse to you? Please.

Speaker 1 I curse their heads and all the hairs of their head.

Speaker 1 I curse their face, their brain, their mouth, their nose, their tongue, their teeth, their forehead, their shoulders, their breast, their heart, their stomach, their back, their womb, their arms, their legs, their hands, their feet, and every part of their body from the top of their head to the soles of their feet, before and behind, within and without.

Speaker 1 I cursed them right now.

Speaker 1 As a Jew raised on Yiddish curses, my bubb is, may you hang upside down like a chandelier, most often levied against my grandfather for losing the TV remote, was about as bad as it got.

Speaker 1 It sounds worse than Yiddish, but still, it's nothing compared to this curse. I curse them going and I curse them riding.
I curse them standing and I curse them sitting.

Speaker 1 This curse reads like a children's book written by a serial killer.

Speaker 1 I would curse them here or there. I would curse them anywhere.

Speaker 1 I curse them within the house. I curse them outside of the house.
I curse them at home. I curse them away from home.
I curse them rising.

Speaker 1 And it's not just the reavers themselves that the Archbishop dams, but anyone remotely associated with them.

Speaker 1 I forbid all Christian men and women to have any company with them, eating, drinking, speaking, praying, lying, going, standing, under the pain of deadly sin.

Speaker 1 And just when you think there's nothing left to curse,

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 May the thunder and lightning which rain down upon Solomon. For a full three minutes, Dylan continues on, with wildfires and dyspepsia, pestilence and plagues, until finally.

Speaker 1 I condemn them perpetually to the deep pit of hell, there to remain with Lucifer and all his fellows, then ripped and torn by dogs until they forbear their open sins and make satisfaction and penance.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a curse.

Speaker 1 Back at the family wedding, seated around the table, Dylan says he remembers that when his dad was done reciting excerpts from the curse, he was met with stunned silence.

Speaker 1 You almost expect people to laugh when they hear a curse like that, but there wasn't really a laugh. The reaction in the room was this kind of aha moment.
Everyone's like,

Speaker 1 this makes total sense. This explains why so many weird things have happened to our family.

Speaker 1 Weird, and also weirdly specific to the curse. Dylan tells me about the soles of his feet, he was born flat-footed, and his tongue, he was born tongue-tied.

Speaker 1 And regarding the I curse you away from home part of the curse.

Speaker 1 I got mugged three days in a row in Paris. Oh my.
And each morning I went out and I bought the slightly shittier phone than I'd had previously.

Speaker 1 Until eventually I had a phone which is like an old person's phone with giant buttons on it. And I got mugged for that one as well.
So I got mugged three days in a row in Paris. Like

Speaker 1 three separate occasions by three separate muggers? Yeah, three separate muggers three nights in a row. What? That doesn't sound.
That's insane. Like, I think the-I was trying to work it out one time.

Speaker 1 I think the odds of getting mugged in a given year are not 0.3%.

Speaker 1 So, what are the odds of getting mugged three days in a row? It's like getting struck by lightning and winning the lottery at the same time or something.

Speaker 1 And Dylan says it's not just him. He tells me about his his brother, a talented gardener who can grow anything except cabbages.
The one thing that's mentioned in the curse.

Speaker 1 The curse says, I curse their cabbage patches. And he can't grow cabbages.
He can't grow brassicas at all.

Speaker 1 I've been pretty successful growing all different types of vegetables. This is Dylan's younger brother, Rory Elliott.

Speaker 1 But like the cabbages in particular, like always seem to be afflicted by some kind of like mold or fungus.

Speaker 1 Then there's rory's feet my mom always said that my feet were like that of a buzzard's pretty much talons yeah and his eyes i tore my cornea i had to wear an eye patch and mouth i've had so many mouth ulcers i'm just being worried that it's like the curse trying to stop me talk to you guys

Speaker 1 rory is a scientist so he knows that believing in curses is crazy but he also knows the value of hard data and the evidence is semi-undeniable like how the Archbishop curses them going and curses them riding.

Speaker 1 I assume that he meant riding horses, but I guess it covers bicycles. Okay,

Speaker 1 what has happened? Like, for instance, one time I was

Speaker 1 cycling to get some seaweed to put on my crops because they weren't doing very well. His crops being the cabbages, Rory was getting seaweed for his cabbages.
And

Speaker 1 there was an iron bar in the ground, and then I ended up going, like, head over the handlebars and like flying headfirst into the dog food factory.

Speaker 1 Sorry, did you say you flew into a dog food?

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 A dog food factory?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Broke my wrist. I broke my arm.

Speaker 1 I needed a lot of stitches.

Speaker 1 That was fairly cursed.

Speaker 1 On a logical level, I'm not superstitious at all, but I am

Speaker 1 a little bit superstitious. This is Dylan's other brother, Tim Elliott.
Tim is waiting to receive funding for his PhD in history. In the meantime, I'm a sort of

Speaker 1 just a freelance person. What do you freelance at?

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 not

Speaker 1 really much.

Speaker 1 if Dylan is rather Eeyore-like and Rory is something of a negative Nelly then Tim is like Charlie Brown if Charlie Brown were looking for PhD funding and given the curse well I mean who would have much hope for that

Speaker 1 like his brothers Tim lists off sorrows specific to the curse he went bald in his twenties has teeth with holes in them and his feet when i was born my feet pointed outwards And then I was put in these shoes.

Speaker 1 So you think, okay, here comes the solution. But then they pointed inwards and were overcorrected.

Speaker 1 Then there's the muggings. While Dylan's been mugged a paltry three times, Tim's been mugged five times?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 One of them, I was mugged while I was dressed as a robot.

Speaker 1 I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1 That just really surprised me. It feels wrong to laugh at someone's misfortunes.
But then, when the follow-up question you're forced to ask a grown man is, why were you dressed as a robot?

Speaker 1 It seems acceptable somehow.

Speaker 1 It was Halloween. I was dressed as a robot called

Speaker 1 the Timtron 5000. I mean, I put so much effort into it.
I had a set of lights going on in my chest, blinking.

Speaker 1 I had a police siren on my head, spinning.

Speaker 1 I'm imagining you, like, in a box wrapped in tinfoil or something.

Speaker 1 You're exactly bang on.

Speaker 1 I was with a group of friends, all dressed differently. I think there was a bumblebee there, there's a pirate.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, yeah.

Speaker 1 So the Timtron 5000, the Bumblebee, and the pirate were walking along when they were suddenly approached by a group of kids. And when I say kids, they were young fellas, like 14.
Really?

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 The ringleader demanded Tim hand over the beers he was carrying, but Tim refused. So he pulls out this pocket knife and he says, I'm gonna, you know, what do you think about this?

Speaker 1 And now, if you recall, Jonathan, I'm wearing nothing but cardboard boxes. Oh, I recall.

Speaker 1 So the Bumblebee,

Speaker 1 the pirates disappear, and I'm not quite as fleet of foot. and I get pushed onto my back like a tortoise.

Speaker 1 Completely unable to get up.

Speaker 1 The kids pulled the siren from Timtron 5000's head, roughed him up a bit. Did you report it?

Speaker 1 Yeah, we got the police,

Speaker 1 and they sort of just said, well,

Speaker 1 I mean, what do you expect?

Speaker 1 Well, my family, it's like

Speaker 1 it's shorthand now.

Speaker 1 Here's Dylan again. Like, we just roll our eyes and go, ah, the fucking curse.

Speaker 1 The misfortunes that

Speaker 1 you mention, I mean, do you literally feel like they're connected to this 500-odd-year curse?

Speaker 1 I think

Speaker 1 it's like this, Jonathan. In my head, it's like

Speaker 1 if you've got 500 years of people

Speaker 1 wishing you ill, it cannot be good for your soul.

Speaker 1 Dylan says that since the old Archbishop of Glasgow levied the curse, the present-day Archbishop is the only person with the power to lift it.

Speaker 1 Others have made appeals to him, but he's never responded. What I'd love is the curse to be lifted.
We will do anything to lift this curse.

Speaker 1 And so, Dylan has come to me for help. They did notice that there was something in the curse about anybody who helps.
you. I think they're cursed too.
It's any Christian man.

Speaker 1 All Christian men who speak to me are cursed by proxy. I think being Jewish, you're actually excused.
Oh, because I am not Christian. That gives me a leg up.

Speaker 1 I think so, yeah. Is that the loophole here? Is that why you came to me? It wasn't because of my previous good works.
It was just because

Speaker 1 I'm a Jew.

Speaker 1 Which brings us back to his email about how lifting the curse would be the biggest heavyweight yet. Because the curse isn't limited to just the Elliots.
It encompasses all the Reaver families.

Speaker 1 Elliotts in the world.

Speaker 1 How many Armstrongs and Scotts and Nixons and Dixons and Pringles?

Speaker 1 Not to sound like one of those seedy personal injury lawyers, but if your name is Scott or Douglas, Reed or Robson, Nixon or Dixon, you may be entitled to karmic compensation.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to find the exceptions to the rules, you know what I mean? Like you mentioned Pringles, like, well, you know, they had those canisters of chips, so they probably did okay.

Speaker 1 Can you tell me you've had a packet of Pringles and not felt a little bit cursed afterwards?

Speaker 1 Well put.

Speaker 1 Dylan and his brothers are tired of their mouth ulcers and tooth holes, tired of wearing eye patches and getting beaten up by children. They're ready to live their best lives.

Speaker 1 If we got this lifted, what would the ensuing days look like if you had to speculate?

Speaker 1 For me,

Speaker 1 it would probably be getting funding. To do your PhD.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 I want to be able to grow cabbages because I actually love cabbage. I don't know.
I would just love to be able to grow cabbages. Okay.

Speaker 1 Cabbages. And what else?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Mainly the cabbages. Like, I really, I really love cabbages.
Like in stir-fry soups.

Speaker 1 I don't know. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Mostly cabbages.

Speaker 1 We're We're going to get you, Elliots, turned around.

Speaker 1 Good to hear you talking. Erase the chalkboard.
A fresh new start.

Speaker 10 They're now the best network, according to the experts at OOCLA Speed Test, and they're using that network to launch Supermobile, the first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built-in security, and seamless satellite coverage.

Speaker 17 With Super Mobile, your performance, security, and coverage are supercharged.

Speaker 52 With a network that adapts in real time, your business stays operating at peak capacity even in times of high demand.

Speaker 53 With built-in security on the first nationwide 5G advanced network, you keep private data private for you, your team, your clients.

Speaker 21 And with seamless coverage from the world's largest satellite-to-mobile constellation, your whole team can text and stay updated even when they're off the grid.

Speaker 10 That's your business, supercharged.

Speaker 16 Best network based on analysis by UCLA of Speed Test Intelligence Data 1H 2025.

Speaker 49 Learn more at don'tsleep on osa.com.

Speaker 55 When the holidays start to feel a bit repetitive, reach for a Sprite Winter Spice Cranberry and put your twist on tradition.

Speaker 55 It's a refreshing way to shake things up this sip in season and only for a limited time. Sprite, obey your thirst.

Speaker 1 The curse still unread to me in its dizzying entirety comes from the Elliott Clan Society website. It turns out there's a whole organization of descendants of border reavers named Elliott.

Speaker 1 The site contains a history of the Elliott family, a map of Elliott territory, and a list of famous Elliots like T.S.

Speaker 1 Elliott, the poet who dared not eat a peach, and Sam Elliott, the push-broomed mustachioed actor who, safe to say, should probably also stay away from peaches.

Speaker 1 And then, there's the page with the transcript of the curse. Underneath it, there are reams and reams of comments.

Speaker 1 Stephen Kyle Elliott posts that he's the only member of his family in four generations that hasn't been to prison or had problems with drugs.

Speaker 1 I try to do right and be a good person, but I always seem to have the most bad luck possible, he says. Mary Elliott cites cancer, airplane crashes, and fires.

Speaker 1 Long before I ever heard heard of this curse, I felt a curse had been put on our family, she writes. Believe me, the curse is alive and well.

Speaker 1 Hello? Hello, is this Margaret Elliott? Yes, it is. Margaret Elliott is the chief of the Elliott Clan Society.
This is Jonathan Goldstein calling from the American podcast. I know how exciting.

Speaker 1 It is my held belief that setting off on a quest to lift a 500-year-old clan curse requires the blessing of a clan chieftainess.

Speaker 1 Margaret Elliott sounds like someone who owns at least a dozen and a half Welsh Corrugis. And like real nobility, she says she inherited the role from her father, who was chief before her.

Speaker 1 With the title, Does There Come a Dwelling like the With

Speaker 1 To Live in the White House?

Speaker 1 No, unfortunately, not.

Speaker 1 To begin, Margaret proudly shares some fun facts about the Elliott family. The Canadian Prime Minister was an Elliot.
His middle name was Pierre Elliott Trudeau.

Speaker 1 Pierre Elliott Trudeau traced his lineage back to the Elliott clan. I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 Yes, he did.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 my middle name is Stuart.

Speaker 1 Is it?

Speaker 1 When I get down to explaining my mission, Margaret tells me she's known about the curse her whole life. It's a part of Elliott history.
But at the same time...

Speaker 1 I don't pay this any attention at all. Yeah.
I mean, this is the first time I've ever actually talked about it. I've never thought it was remotely important.

Speaker 1 It's important to her constituents, though. I tell her about Dylan and his brothers, the eye patches, the constant muggings, the cabbage problems.

Speaker 1 I don't think he can blame it. I think maybe he's got the wrong sort of brand for cabbage.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the cursed kind.

Speaker 1 Although Margaret doesn't put stock in curses, she still blesses the mission. and even offers to help.
Well, I mean, I could probably get an archbishop and the phone.

Speaker 1 Do you think you can get an archbishop on the telephone?

Speaker 1 Why not?

Speaker 1 Wow, I really appreciate your good old American moxie

Speaker 1 on that one.

Speaker 1 What does that mean?

Speaker 1 What does good old American Moxie mean, Margaret? It's throwing a bottle rocket into a trash can just to see it go boom. It's staring down your enemies while picking your teeth with a corndog stick.

Speaker 1 It's sewing a Canadian flag onto your backpack when traveling through Europe, so when you toss a bottle rocket into some Parisian poo-bell, Canada looks like the idiot.

Speaker 1 Moxie is getting a bishop on the horn and greeting him with a big fat American howdy-doo. Have you ever reached out to an Archbishop before?

Speaker 1 No, I know a bishop or two, but no, I don't have.

Speaker 1 It'll be interesting. I will follow it up.
You've inspired me.

Speaker 1 Wow, okay.

Speaker 1 That isn't often what I do, so I appreciate that. Very good.

Speaker 1 Margaret is on the case. But before getting off the phone, she counsels me against talking to other Elliots about the curse.

Speaker 1 If they're blissfully unaware, she says, why share something that will only trouble them? To illustrate her point, Margaret tells me about an art installation memorializing the curse.

Speaker 1 It's called the Cursing Stone, and it's a 14-ton granite boulder with the curse inscribed upon it. It was commissioned by the city of Carlisle in 2001.

Speaker 1 Why? Well, I don't believe in this curse, but there are people who do, like your friend Dylan.

Speaker 1 And I think it is unwise to bring it out again, because it alarms people.

Speaker 1 But the fallout caused by the stone suggests it more than alarmed people. Following its installation, the city experienced a series of disasters.

Speaker 1 The worst flood in 200 years, an outbreak of foot and mouth disease, numerous businesses and factories shutting down, among them notably, a bar called the Reaver Pub.

Speaker 1 And the local soccer team, Carlisle United, lost so many games they were relegated to a lower league.

Speaker 1 So I speak with the artist who sculpted the Cursing Stone, Gordon Young of the border reaving Young Clan.

Speaker 1 But despite the biblical plagues unleashed by his art, Gordon doesn't put any stock in the curse at all.

Speaker 1 Do you think there's anything suggestive about the timing? You know, like just after the unveiling of your work and all of these misfortunes occurring, do you see anything

Speaker 1 in the you don't you don't admit that the timing is sort of an in interesting

Speaker 1 by the curse? Like do you feel that you're unluckier than your friends?

Speaker 1 I feel

Speaker 1 uh a lifelong saying would be if I fell down a toilet, I'd come up smelling of roses and I feel I have been very,

Speaker 1 very, very lucky all my life.

Speaker 1 Gordon's answer surprises me. So I conduct an informal survey.

Speaker 1 Turning to the phone book, I dial random Elliots to see how unlucky they are. Hello, is this Dale Elliott? Yes, Yes, it is.
Hello, is this Tanya Elliott Hensby? Yes.

Speaker 1 I even phone a real estate agent on a lawn sign. Andy Elliott.
And I reach out to Margaret's Elliott Society Klan officers all across the USA. You're a state commissioner for Alabama?

Speaker 1 Arkansas, but yeah, I'm the commissioner for Klan Elliott in Texas, yes. Yes, I'm the Northern California commissioner for it.

Speaker 1 I ask if any of them have experienced the things the Elliott brothers have. The inability to ever grow cabbage.
Any dental problems? Do you own cattle or sheep? Growing cabbage? Are you bald?

Speaker 1 But it seems they haven't. Nope.
Nope. Nope.
No, I'm a gorgeous redhead.

Speaker 1 So I find myself wondering whether ill fortune might be less a border reaver problem and more a Dylan, Tim, and Rory problem.

Speaker 1 What was going on with the Elliott brothers? Why all the bad luck? And was the curse really to blame for it?

Speaker 1 Since Dylan, Tim, and Rory's dad David was the one who first told them about the curse, I wonder if he would have any insight. So I reach out to David, but at the last minute, he bulks.

Speaker 1 Dylan says it's because his dad is nervous that even talking about the curse could exacerbate it. But in David's stead, Dylan's aunt Joe agrees to talk to me.
Hello, Johnson. How are you? I'm okay.

Speaker 1 How are you today? Not too bad. I'm very glad it's Friday.
In the background, I can hear Joe pouring something into a glass. What is it that you're drinking?

Speaker 1 Oh, Pino Gratio. Is that alright? It's absolutely okay.
Yeah, I sometimes think that I could tell what someone's drinking, but it's a little piccadillo of mine.

Speaker 1 I asked Joe about her family, whether they're a bunch of magical thinkers, like, say, someone who thinks he can tell what beverage someone is drinking over the phone.

Speaker 1 Maybe they've over-indexed on this whole curse thing. Was your upbringing superstitious? Did your parents have rituals and stuff like that? Well, I was brought up by my grandparents.

Speaker 1 And then, Joe tells me the reason she was raised by her grandparents. Our parents died when we were all very young.
Hmm.

Speaker 1 Your parents died around the same time?

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, they died in a car accident. Oh, my, I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And they were together. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Did that has that ever struck you as

Speaker 1 a bit of bad luck?

Speaker 1 It was really bad luck, right?

Speaker 1 I mean, that's like the worst luck ever, almost.

Speaker 1 Joe was only four years old at the time of the accident, so she doesn't remember the day. But she does remember learning about the death of her parents for the first time.

Speaker 1 I was able to read, so I must have been about six.

Speaker 1 And I'd found a newspaper cutting in my grandmother's chest of drawers, and I could see that my name was in there, and my sister's name was in there.

Speaker 1 And I could see it was talking about

Speaker 1 two people,

Speaker 1 and I wasn't sure who their names were, but it sounded really sad to me. And it had this really big long word at the top of it.

Speaker 1 So I went and asked my grandmother what it was, and she said, Well, that word is an obituary.

Speaker 1 And these people are your mum and dad,

Speaker 1 and they're dead.

Speaker 1 I do have a few memories.

Speaker 1 When my dad used to go out to work, I used to have to help him put his socks on. And

Speaker 1 the day my dad went in to tell the teacher off in school because she was really horrible to me.

Speaker 1 And I remember being woken up in the middle of the night to come downstairs and see the new toys that my dad had brought home from work. It was a little red t-shirt.

Speaker 1 I remember the first time I tasted Chinese food because my mom was ill in bed and my dad brought me in to taste the Chinese food and there was pineapple on it and I'd never had pineapple before.

Speaker 1 Joe says that after her parents' death, she and her six siblings were all split up, sent to different relatives. It took them many years, not until they were adults, to all reconnect.

Speaker 1 Do you think this

Speaker 1 family trauma has kind of cast a pall over David's kids?

Speaker 1 There is no doubt in our family that our parents' death was,

Speaker 1 oh my goodness, catastrophic in a lot of ways. It was terrible.
It was a big sadness and I think they picked that up.

Speaker 1 When you're a kid, it's a scary thing to learn that tragedy can strike at any moment for no reason, that there's no insulation between you and the darkness.

Speaker 1 Joe doesn't think the curse caused the accident, but the accident might have given the idea of a curse a certain allure. It offered an explanation for something unexplainable.

Speaker 1 Growing up, Dylan and his brothers heard about their grandparents' death, were raised with the feeling of a vague dark cloud that hung over the family.

Speaker 1 But now, They've given that dark cloud a name, the curse of the Elliotts. And what you can name, you can vanquish.

Speaker 1 What do you think that lifting the curse might change

Speaker 1 for David or for your nephews?

Speaker 1 It might

Speaker 1 give a breathing space. And I don't know why I've said that word or that phrase, but that's just what it feels like.
A breathing space.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Regardless of how Margaret Elliott or any of the 300,000 Elliotts feel about the curse, these three Elliots, Dylan, Rory, and Tim Elliott, they believe in it.

Speaker 1 And I'm going to help these Elliott by lifting this curse once and for all.

Speaker 17 With Supermobile, your performance, security, and coverage are supercharged.

Speaker 16 Best network based on analysis by OOCHLA of Speed Test Intelligence Data 1H 2025.

Speaker 33 they may be happening to you without you knowing.

Speaker 49 Learn more at don't sleep on osa.com.

Speaker 55 It's a refreshing way to shake things up this sip in season and only for a limited time. Sprite, obey your thirst.

Speaker 1 My greatest hope for lifting the curse lies with Elliott clan chief Margaret, who promised me a bishop.

Speaker 1 But at this point, I haven't heard from Margaret in weeks, so I send an email asking for a progress report. When she replies, I'm surprised by her terseness.
No bishop, she writes.

Speaker 1 I really think there is no point in pursuing this, and your friend who complained about his baldness and not growing cabbage will have to put up with it and not blame an entirely irrelevant 16th century curse.

Speaker 1 I'm not sure how to account for the shift in Margaret's tone until I read this.

Speaker 1 I would be grateful if you would not contact any more clan officers and alarm them unduly.

Speaker 1 It seems some of the Elliots I spoke to, ever loyal to their chieftain, ratted me out, telling Margaret how I'd been pestering them about their bad luck.

Speaker 1 As chief, Margaret wants to protect her flock, and not from the curse of the Archbishop, but from me.

Speaker 1 It looks like I'm on my own.

Speaker 1 On the Archdiocese of Glasgow's website, I find the name of the Archbishop's Director of Communications. Mr.
Convary. Hi.
Thank you so much for talking to me. No problem at all.

Speaker 1 I'm glad to be able to chat.

Speaker 1 I explained to Ronnie Convry about Dylan and his brothers, the robot muggings, the dog food factory. He's worried that the curse from whatever 500 years ago is affecting his daily life.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Hardy Har Har, if you will, Ronnie Convary. But I thought stuff that happened hundreds of years ago and still affects daily life is the church's bread and butter.

Speaker 1 Of course, I'm too cowardly to actually say that, but I do say this, albeit mincingly. Why can't the Archbishop just lift this one little old curse just this one little old time?

Speaker 1 It's not going to happen.

Speaker 1 It's not like, you know, the Archbishop puts on a stool and goes into the cathedral and mutters a few prayers in Latin and sprinkles some holy water around and everything's fixed.

Speaker 1 I mean, there is no such ceremony for lifting curses.

Speaker 1 And even if there were a ceremony, Ronnie says there's no one to perform it. The last archbishop died just recently, and appointing a new one can take months, even years.

Speaker 1 Is this something that the Pope could lift?

Speaker 1 I have no idea. To be honest, I were you, I wouldn't waste time trying to figure out how you could speak to the Pope because,

Speaker 1 you know, you'd be here till doomsday and you wouldn't get near the Pope on something like this. Yeah, he's a busy man, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's not like you could just call the vatican switchboard and ask to speak to the pope absolutely noticano turns out you can call the vatican switchboard but the problem

Speaker 1 not english italiano uh italiana um is there anybody that uh speaks uh uh in english

Speaker 1 uh my sister speaking english it's okay three hours

Speaker 1 in it three three

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 When I phone back Trey hours later, though, the person who picks up doesn't know what I'm talking about. She was like, yeah, my sister's going to be here later.

Speaker 1 That sounds like Italy to me. Yeah, is that the

Speaker 1 Gimlet co-worker, Valentina? She was born in Florence and speaks Italian and agrees to help me phone back a few weeks later.

Speaker 1 Have you ever called the Vatican before?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 It turns out that while there isn't an office at the Vatican for curse removal, there is a department for Papal Blessings.

Speaker 1 Maybe a strong enough blessing can wipe out a curse, love-KOing, hate kind of thing. So, Valentina and I phone up the Office of Blessings.

Speaker 1 Valentina explains the details of my problem: the cabbages and cankers, but the operator says we need a different department.

Speaker 1 It's an exorcism office. Oh,

Speaker 1 so getting a curse lifted is it that falls under the department of Exorcism.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 that's the only department that can deal with that. Because we are exactly the opposite, you know?

Speaker 1 Of course.

Speaker 1 Bless you.

Speaker 1 Blessings are the opposite of curses.

Speaker 1 So I call the switchboard back and ask for the Department of Exorcism. Why, the operator asks.
And so, yet again, I explain the ulcerated mouths and talent toes.

Speaker 1 It's really absurd.

Speaker 1 Absurd? In 2021, we are still thinking about a curse dating back to 1526. Oh, God.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 it's five centuries.

Speaker 1 Yes, and so it's about time.

Speaker 1 If Pope Francis hears about that, I don't know how he would react. H how would he react?

Speaker 1 I don't think he would react in a good way. Are there special circumstances in which someone could speak to the Pope?

Speaker 1 But but it's happened.

Speaker 1 It may happen, but it's not so easy. What what are the circumstances in which you passed someone through to the Pope? I don't know.
Does he have a cell phone? Excuse me.

Speaker 1 Does the Pope have a cell phone? Do people that he travels with have a cell phone? Is it just a landline? Sir, what do you want to do? Sir,

Speaker 1 I don't know what you really want to do.

Speaker 1 When I tell the operator about the original reason for my call, that I want to be put through to the Department of Exorcisms, I learn there is no such department.

Speaker 1 Or there is, but it's a department of one.

Speaker 1 There's only one exorcist for the entire Vatican.

Speaker 1 And he has a portable number.

Speaker 1 You want the number of the portable?

Speaker 1 The portable cellular device of the Pope's personal exorcist?

Speaker 1 Uh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yes, please.

Speaker 1 Oh, oh, one.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Thank you very much for your help.

Speaker 1 Yes,

Speaker 1 God bless. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Wow, this is

Speaker 1 really great. This is really great.
So should we try the

Speaker 1 exorcist?

Speaker 1 Welcome to Verizon Wireless. Your call cannot be completed as the cult party is temporarily unavailable.

Speaker 1 Is that a good sign?

Speaker 1 It's not a good sign. Once a week, for the next eight weeks, Valentina and I try calling him back.
The call never goes through.

Speaker 1 When I phone the Vatican switchboard again, the operator directs me to the Secretary General of the Diocese of Rome,

Speaker 1 who says I'll need to speak with a Padre Millilli. No, Melilli?

Speaker 1 But Padre Midili's secretary says he's not the right person either.

Speaker 1 Apparently, since the curse affects not just the Elliotts or Dublin, but all Elliott everywhere, my problem is an international problem.

Speaker 1 She says we need to call the Association of International Exorcists. Oh, come on.
It's called AI,

Speaker 1 AIE, Association Internacional Exorciste. She just made that up.

Speaker 1 But it turns out that the International Association of Exorcists has over 800 members, publishes guides for exorcists around the world, and is accredited by the Vatican.

Speaker 1 The AIE and I email back and forth, but eventually the exorcists start giving me the brush off too.

Speaker 1 It's been nearly a year of unreturned emails, wrong numbers, and all-around royal runarounds. I've been waking up at 4 a.m.

Speaker 1 to call the Vatican so often that at this point, I'm basically on Italian time, which is kind of like being on a vacation in Italy with none of the Italy, but all of the sleep deprivation.

Speaker 1 It's while complaining to my wife one day about how sleepy I am all the time, how badly my neck and back hurt, that I'm forced to ask myself, did I have the Elliott curse?

Speaker 1 If I did, it wouldn't be so bad if I had anything to show for it. As it is, though, I feel like I'm in a Dan Brown novel.

Speaker 1 But the boring parts, like the table of contents or the author's note that nobody reads.

Speaker 1 And to add insult to injury, I've been at this so long that a new Archbishop of Glasgow has finally been installed. So I phone Ronnie Convry and leave half a dozen messages over a number of weeks.

Speaker 1 When someone finally does pick up, rather than being granted an audience, I'm granted this.

Speaker 1 Good afternoon, Archdiocese of Glasgow. Hi there.
Is Ronnie Convry there?

Speaker 1 Um, I believe he is. Can I ask who's calling? Sure, it's Jonathan Goldstein.

Speaker 1 Right. Can you hold for a moment? Certainly.

Speaker 1 Hello? Yes.

Speaker 1 You must have stepped away from his desk.

Speaker 1 Do you think it would be okay to maybe try him a little later?

Speaker 1 Um.

Speaker 1 His schedule is quite unpredictable. That's the only thing.
Right, right, right. He's in and out quite a bit.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 The only thing left to do is admit defeat.

Speaker 1 Except for the fact that unbeknownst to Ronnie Convry, the Archbishop, the Vatican, and even me, in the Battle of Goldstein versus the Curse, the Curse was on the ropes.

Speaker 4 With Supermobile, your performance, security, and coverage are supercharged.

Speaker 21 Best business plan based based on a combination of advanced network performance, coverage layers, and security features.

Speaker 16 Best network based on analysis by OOCLA of Speed Test Intelligence Data 1H 2025.

Speaker 49 Learn more at don'tsleep on osa.com.

Speaker 55 It's It's a refreshing way to shake things up this sip in season and only for a limited time. Sprite, obey your thirst.

Speaker 1 Sure, this might have been the heaviest weight yet, but that's the thing about heavy's weight. When you hoist them, there's no finer feeling.

Speaker 1 But the only thing I've succeeded in hoisting is myself, by my own batards.

Speaker 1 And so, without another choice, I phoned Dylan to tell him I failed.

Speaker 1 Hello. Dylan? Yes, hello.
How are you?

Speaker 1 More importantly, how are you? It's been 14 months since Dylan first reached out to me. Another cursed year has come and gone.

Speaker 1 The thought of how violently, excruciatingly bald he must be at this point is frankly too much to bear. But what Dylan says next, you'll have to hear to believe.
How are things? Really good.

Speaker 1 I've had a pretty great

Speaker 1 second half of the year, to be honest. Really? Yeah.
Like it's everything seems to be going a bit better, you know. Well, you sound different.
I mean, your energy feels different.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I just feel totally different. I feel kind of much much better.
I was kind of wondering,

Speaker 1 is there anything bad in the background, curse-wise? Because I've had a really, really good second half of the year.

Speaker 1 I never dreamt of hearing the words really good, let alone really, really good, come from the mouth of Dylan Elliott. What was going on?

Speaker 1 And on top of that, it's not just Dylan who's been feeling better. Everyone's in quite good shape at the moment.
Like, I mean, my brother Tim,

Speaker 1 he's accepted onto a PhD course and he's got funding for it. It's going fantastic.

Speaker 1 This is Tim. Using the word fantastic.
I'm suddenly working for myself

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 meeting lots of new interesting people

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 having a really lovely time. Is there a moment where you feel like things started to turn? I think probably beginning the school year or in September.
So like in the fall? Yeah.

Speaker 1 This is a different, you know, a different Tim from when I spoke to you last. Ah yes, yes.
No muggings in the past year. Zero.
Zero muggings. That's a net positive.

Speaker 1 How are things for Rory?

Speaker 1 Oh, Rory's having a great time. He just sent me a picture.
He's made friends with

Speaker 1 a donkey, I think it is. It's very small, though.

Speaker 1 What does that mean?

Speaker 1 Well, he just sent me a picture of him and his friend, who is a donkey, I guess.

Speaker 1 Okay, where is Rory?

Speaker 1 I've moved to the west of Ireland, and I'm just really happy. This is Rory.
You know, living here with my partner. The donkey?

Speaker 1 Injury-free.

Speaker 1 What about the mouth ulcers? Have they cleared up? I don't have any, any of them. Incredible.
Not for months.

Speaker 1 And perhaps most importantly, and to my mind, most insanely, my ability to grow cabbages has

Speaker 1 really improved. Like this season, my cabbages have been amazing.
And as a victory lap, Rory made wine. From cabbages.

Speaker 1 I mean, it tastes like really strongly alcoholic, fermented cabbage juice that's very fizzy.

Speaker 1 When I just looked up cabbage wine, it seems as though like one makes it with 60% cabbages and 40% grapes. I'm full of cabbage.
You're going 100% cabbage? Going full of cabbage.

Speaker 1 Dylan sounds like a new man. Tim's doing his PhD.
Rory's dating a donkey. Even the Reaver pub in Carlisle that closed down, just this year it reopened.

Speaker 1 What has changed? Was it merely my trying to get the curse lifted that perhaps weakened it?

Speaker 1 Is lifting a curse like attempting to open a pickle jar when it's just so impossible that you give up and accept that you're never going to eat pickles ever again?

Speaker 1 But then someone comes along and pops it open no problem because of all your hard work? Had I loosened the pickle jar? I returned to the Elliott Clan Society webpage to reread the curse for clues.

Speaker 1 Maybe while high-stepping around like a jackass, I'd inadvertently crane-kicked some satanic goblin in the privates, knocking him into a key structural beam of the curse's complex architecture.

Speaker 1 But when I get to the curse's website, I'm shocked by what I find.

Speaker 1 Because what I find is nothing.

Speaker 1 In big block letters across the screen, it reads:

Speaker 1 Error 404,

Speaker 1 page not found.

Speaker 1 The curse has has been removed.

Speaker 1 Hello? Oh, hello. Is this Ms.
Elliott?

Speaker 1 This is Margaret Elliott speaking, yes. And so, I phoned Margaret Elliott, chief of the Elliott Clan Society slash webpage.
Oh, hello, this is Jonathan Goldstein calling.

Speaker 1 I don't know if you remember me,

Speaker 1 the American podcaster.

Speaker 1 Yes, yes, I remember. Hi, I'm sorry to bother you.

Speaker 1 Might you just have a couple minutes to speak? I just had a... Yeah, I'm not.
I mean, yes, I've got... I'm not terribly keen on talking about this curse anymore.

Speaker 1 I long for the olden days when Margaret was terribly keen on talking about this curse.

Speaker 1 How exciting. Well, I mean, I could probably get somebody on the phone.
It'll be interesting.

Speaker 1 My middle name is Stuart. You've inspired me.

Speaker 1 Now all I have is a dumb old montage.

Speaker 1 I've made enough calls to people desperate to get off the phone with me to know that I only have a few minutes before Margaret hangs up. So I launch right into my question.

Speaker 1 Why was the curse taken down from the Elliott clan website? I asked for it to be taken down.

Speaker 1 Just out of pure curiosity. Was it taken down because of me?

Speaker 1 Yes, I think you probably triggered triggered something and made me think a little more deeply about it than I wanted to. Anyway, so yes, it was your fault.
Okay.

Speaker 1 It wasn't my ability to procure a papal blessing, archbishop's recantation, or priestly exorcism that in the end got rid of the curse. It was simply my ability to be annoying.

Speaker 1 I annoyed that curse right out of existence on the internet. It was all due to you.

Speaker 1 You mean you take responsibility?

Speaker 1 I mean, not to,

Speaker 1 you know, take all the credit, but yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 take all the credit. Why not?

Speaker 1 Since the Elliott Brothers log began improving in the fall, I run my dawning theory about why by Margaret.

Speaker 1 I wonder, well, this might seem silly to you, but might it correspond to the fact that the curse was taken off the website?

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 1 wouldn't think so.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 But the intersection of the Elliott brothers' change in luck and the change in the webpage is just too tantalizing for me to let go of.

Speaker 1 So, I can't help but continue to toe dance on Margaret's last remaining nerve. Do you remember the day that it was removed?

Speaker 1 No, I don't. Like roughly around?

Speaker 1 I don't remember at all. Do not put the two together.

Speaker 1 Dylan Elliott's luck started to change around the end of last year. I think the fall going into winter.
Was that.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to be sucked into this. I just absolutely think it's entirely irrelevant.
But was that

Speaker 1 around the

Speaker 1 generally?

Speaker 1 Okay, well, I hope this is all done and dusted now.

Speaker 1 Yes, I think so. Good.
Great. All right.
Have a nice day. Okay, you know.
As they say in America. Yes, and

Speaker 1 Toodaloo, as they say,

Speaker 1 We say that all the time.

Speaker 1 After speaking with Margaret, I searched the internet archives and discover, in fact, that indeed the page of the curse was removed around the time of the Elliott's change in fortune.

Speaker 1 Okay, now I'm going to ask you to try to find that page about the Elliott Curse.

Speaker 1 Together, Dylan and I turn to the page of the curse on the Elliott clan website. Let me see now.

Speaker 1 Hang on, let me see. What do you see? I'm trying to find it here, sir.
I'm trying to find that page. That's right, you can't find it.
Why is that? It's been removed. Why? How come?

Speaker 1 Has the curse been lifted?

Speaker 1 Lifted, not from reality, technically, but from the internet. That's very 21st century.

Speaker 1 Can we just just at this point safely say that the curse has been lifted?

Speaker 1 I mean, yeah, actually, definitely can, I think.

Speaker 1 And when I ask Rory if he buys the whole internet exorcism idea, scientist that he is, he carefully analyzes the empirical evidence. I mean, you know, it's definitely possible.

Speaker 1 You know, in fact, it's probable. In fact, I think it's definitely the case.

Speaker 1 Next time I'm in Carlisle, I'd like to buy you a pint at the Reaver Pub. You know?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'd like to offer you a glass of Brussels Sprout champagne.

Speaker 1 I've got plans with the girlfriend to go off and buy a camper van very shortly. Here's Dylan again.
A camper van? Yeah, we're gonna take it in the road and kind of go safely.

Speaker 1 It's just feeling this immense feeling of freedom. It's been kind of incredible.

Speaker 1 Are the Elliott boys better off for anything I did? Who knows? And frankly, at this point, they probably don't even care. When things are going well, we don't think too hard about the why of it.

Speaker 1 It's only when things are bad that we do. That's when we seek out therapists to analyze and exorcists to exercise.
When things are going well, we just enjoy them for as long as they last.

Speaker 1 which usually isn't very long at all. But for now, there's breathing space.
When is your girlfriend due over?

Speaker 1 Oh, like, imminently.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. Enjoy the rest of your day with your girlfriend.
Thanks, Amelian. Have a great day.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Take it easy, Dylan. Bye-bye now.
Bye-bye.

Speaker 1 Now that the furniture's returning to its goodwill home

Speaker 1 Now that the last month's rent is scheming with the damaged deposit

Speaker 1 Take this moment to desolate

Speaker 1 If we meant it, if we tried.

Speaker 1 But felt around for far too much.

Speaker 1 This episode of Heavyweight was produced by supervising producer Stevie Lane and me, Jonathan Goldstein, along with Mohini Mitgowker. Our senior producer is Khalila Holt.

Speaker 1 Special thanks to Emily Condon, Alex Alex Bloomberg, Valentina Powers, Max Green, Damiano Marchetti, and Jackie Cohen. Bobby Lord mixed the episode with original music by Christine Fellows, John K.

Speaker 1 Sampson, Michael Hearst, Sean Jacobi, Blue Dot Sessions, and he himself, Bobby Lord. Additional music credits can be found on our website, gimletmedia.com slash heavyweight.

Speaker 1 Our theme song is by The Weaker Thans, courtesy of Epitaph Records. Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight.
This was the last episode of the season, but we're already looking for stories for next year.

Speaker 1 So if there's a moment from your past that you need help resolving, please send us an email at heavyweight at gimletmedia.com. Have a happy and safe holiday season.

Speaker 1 Should I ask Auggie if he wants to come up here and wish everyone a happy holiday season? Aggie, do you want to be in the credits? Okay, what's that thing?

Speaker 1 Have a happy and safe holiday season, Aggie.

Speaker 1 And we'll see you next year.

Speaker 29 this is sophie cunningham from show me something do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea or osa in adults with obesity They may be happening to you without you knowing.

Speaker 49 Learn more at don't sleep on osa.com.

Speaker 56 Honestly, honestly, honestly, no one wants to think about HIV, but there are things that everyone can do to help prevent it. Things like PrEP.

Speaker 56 PrEP stands for Pre-Exposure Prophylaxis, and it means routinely taking prescription medicine before you're exposed to HIV to help reduce your chances of getting it.

Speaker 56 PrEP can be about 99% effective when taken as prescribed. It doesn't protect against other STIs, though, so be sure to use condoms and other healthy sex practices.

Speaker 1 Ask a healthcare provider about all your prevention options and visit findoutaboutprep.com to learn more. Sponsored by Gilead.
Hey, audiobook lovers. I'm Cal Penn.
I'm Ed Helms.

Speaker 1 Ed and I are inviting you to join the best-sounding book club you've ever heard with our new podcast, Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.

Speaker 57 Each week, we sit down with your favorite iHeart podcast hosts and some very special guests to discuss the latest and greatest audiobooks from Audible.

Speaker 1 Listen to Earsay on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow Iarsay and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

Speaker 55 This is an iHeart podcast.